Ask Dr. Drew - UNcanceled: NBA’s Tim Hardaway Makes ‘Killer Crossover’ Back Into Spotlight After Canceled In 2007 + Alex Berenson on FDA Black Box Warnings for mRNA & Marcie Hume on Corey Feldman – Ask Dr. Drew – Ep 561

Episode Date: December 5, 2025

NBA star Tim Hardaway sparked national outrage after saying “I hate gay people” on a Miami radio show in 2007. But his views shifted by 2013, when he was the first person to sign a petition for Florida’s equal marriage amendment. Today, Hardaway Sr. says his earlier remarks were “truly wrong” and that guidance from family led him to rethink his views. In his new memoir “Killer Crossover” Hardaway reflects on being canceled (before “canceled” was a word), humbling himself, and how he returned to the spotlight: “the blood, sweat, and tears that went into becoming one of the most feared guards in the game and a future Hall of Famer.” Alex Berenson reports the FDA is considering a rare black box warning for Covid mRNA shots. TV producer Marcie Hume reveals what she learned after getting “unprecedented access” to Corey Feldman for her “Corey Feldman vs. the World” documentary, available for streaming on Dec 11. Alex Berenson is the author of Unreported Truths Substack and writes on public health, policy, and civil liberties. He is the New York Times bestselling author of multiple books. Follow him at https://x.com/AlexBerenson and read more at https://alexberenson.substack.com/ Tim Hardaway is a former NBA point guard known for the Killer Crossover and Run TMC. He is the author of Killer Crossover: My Life from the Chicago Streets to Basketball Royalty, available at https://amzn.to/4owgcr5. Find more at https://instagram.com/the_original_crossover_king Marcie Hume is a documentary filmmaker and producer of Corey Feldman vs. the World. She is VP at A&E Global Media and serves on the board of the Academy of Magical Arts. Follow at https://x.com/MarcieHume and watch the trailer online. 「 SUPPORT OUR SPONSORS 」 • AUGUSTA PRECIOUS METALS – Thousands of Americans are moving portions of their retirement into physical gold & silver. Learn more in this 3-minute report from our friends at Augusta Precious Metals: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://drdrew.com/gold⁠⁠⁠⁠ or text DREW to 35052 ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠• FATTY15 – The future of essential fatty acids is here! Strengthen your cells against age-related breakdown with Fatty15. Get 15% off a 90-day Starter Kit Subscription at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://drdrew.com/fatty15⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ • PALEOVALLEY - "Paleovalley has a wide variety of extraordinary products that are both healthful and delicious,” says Dr. Drew. "I am a huge fan of this brand and know you'll love it too!” Get 15% off your first order at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://drdrew.com/paleovalley⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ • THE WELLNESS COMPANY - Counteract harmful spike proteins with TWC's Signature Series Spike Support Formula containing nattokinase and selenium. Learn more about TWC's supplements at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://twc.health/drew⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ 「 ABOUT THE SHOW 」 Ask Dr. Drew is produced by Kaleb Nation (⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://kalebnation.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠) and Susan Pinsky (⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://twitter.com/firstladyoflov⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠e⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠). This show is for entertainment and/or informational purposes only, and is not a substitute for medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Executive Producers • Kaleb Nation - ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://kalebnation.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ • Susan Pinsky - ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://x.com/firstladyoflove⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Content Producer & Booking • Emily Barsh - ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://x.com/emilytvproducer⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Hosted By • Dr. Drew Pinsky - ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://x.com/drdrew⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

great guest today everybody first of all in a little while we'll be speaking with marcy hume she has a new documentary on corey feldman of all people she's going to describe why he intrigued her and what she discovered in the course of documentation and then tim hardaway NBA great he has a new book he's going to tell us how he uncanceled himself with dignity uh the book is something you should run out and get he is uh there it is killer crossover is the name of the book and he of course is one of the greats and he's got a story to tell and before we do all of that we're going to talk to alex barrenson my question to alex is does he ever get tired of being right uh lo and behold non-zero chance of

serious serious events from vaccines particularly in young males exactly what we've been saying all along we're going to get to that and more right after this our laws as it pertain to substances are draconian and bizarre the psychopaths He was an alcoholic because of social media and pornography, PTSD, love addiction. Fentanyl and heroin, ridiculous. I'm a doctor for a second. Where the hell you think I learned that? I'm just saying, you go to treatment before you kill people.

I am a clinician. I observe things about these chemicals. Let's just deal with what's real. We used to get these calls on Loveline all the time, educate adolescents, and to prevent, and to treat. You have trouble, you can't stop, and you want to help stop it. I can help. I got a lot to say. I got a lot more to say.

Alex Barrensen, welcome back. You can follow him on X at Alex Barrensen, B-E-N-S-O-N-S-S-S-S-Tac.com. So, yeah, do you ever get tired of being right, Alex? I wish I had not been right about this. I wish that the authorities had done the proper work starting in, you know, really 2020, but especially 20-21, to do some, first of all, to do the surveillance and then to do the right risk-benefit analysis on these MRNA vaccines for kids. And they didn't, you know, essentially the Biden administration

and the sort of legacy media had spent 2020 scaring parents about COVID for kids and really completely overstating its risk to kids. And then they were desperate for some kind of answer to get all these blue state parents to let their kids go back to school. and they told them that if they just vaccinated them with the MRNAs, everything would be fine. It was a lie, and now, you know, the truth finally under the new FDA,

which has some very good people in it, is starting to come out. I've been saying for a long time that particularly in the area of Omicron, there's a zero probability of a 20-year-old male being hospitalized or dying of COVID, a healthy 20-year-old male, and a non-zero probability of getting myocarditis.

Those who did should, sue the schools that required it as a condition of attendance? Can't sue anybody though, Dr. Drew. The prep act is basically ironclad, and it's not just for the companies. There's sort of a misperception about this. It's a saying if a company has made drug companies, but if your employer made you get vaccinated, if, you know, you got it at a pharmacy or Walmart, if your school told you to get vaccinated or your parents that you had to get vaccinated, they're all

protected with the the liability protection we gave here is so much stronger than really it should ever be because it you know what was it lawyers sometimes they get a bad rap but but they are a necessary corrective when things go bad and things things have gone very bad on this and what what i you know what i said um uh earlier today is the the vaccine the pro vaccine people the people really think that, you know, that measles is, that everyone should be vaccinated against measles. My kids are vaccinated against measles. And I think generally the standard childhood schedule makes sense. Maybe it's a little aggressive, but it basically makes sense. Those people should be furious with Pfizer and modern. And they should be furious with themselves. Because they

pushed this. They pushed these vaccines. They're not vaccines. They work for about three months, maybe if that, but they push these shots on kids. Parents have not forgotten. And if you look at the statistics last year, even before this stuff came out, only about 3% of American children and teens under 18 were getting the booster shot last year. This year it's going to be less,

even if they don't pull it. So parents know, and they will never trust their doctors or the CDC the same way again. And that is just not going back. And the best thing that we can have right now is a real conversation about the MRNAs, about how this happened, and about whether they should be on the market at all. And certainly whether anybody under, you know, you want to say 30, 40, 50, whatever you want to say, should ever be getting these again.

Right. And we are still leaving open the possibility that 75-year-old plus derived net benefit from this. I believe that could be well-be. I didn't see it. I saw one adverse event. And by the way, I made a report to Vair was in a 100-year-old. She nearly died from the reaction.

They never, ever responded to me as spite of multiple follow-ups. So if you saw on the tape that we rolled into, there's a rheumatologist reported a child that had died. They didn't follow up. This is disgusting. And, look, Francis Collins himself said

everything they did did not take risk-reward into account. That's not medicine. I don't know what that is. That's a military operation of some type. It's not medicine. It's propaganda. And, you know, the reason that I've gotten a lot of attention today or, you know, over the weekend is for, you know, Vinay, Vinay Prasad, he wrote this excellent memo on Fred. He's the, he's the new head of vaccines and biologics at the FDA saying, you know, at least 10 kids, they've now linked deaths to post-MRNA jab. It's probably a lot more than that. They're being pretty conservative. And I think they're only looking at various cases. But what I had written was in, in, in, In January of 2025, there was a death in a Derna clinical trial of a four-year-old that they basically never reported. Okay, they put it on one very, very obscure European website and because, you know, I'm like, I don't know what you would call me an officiantado of drug regulatory business.

I know this site, but so I wrote an unreported truce, you know, that's my substack. I wrote this unreported truth piece about this in January. moderna wouldn't comment the fdaa gave me what was essentially a BS comment um and you know because it was still the Biden in restoration nobody paid any attention to that so now now that the FDA is saying the truth which is there are these deaths that are clearly linked to the shots I went back and said look guys back in january I told you not just that there had been a pediatric death but that it had been in moderna's own trial now they can say we don't think this is related to the shots because That's their, you know, that's their interpretation. And maybe they're right, maybe they're wrong. But what is absolutely wrong is for them to sit on that and find ways not to publish that, not to report that when this is an issue of not just national, but worldwide interest. And that's what they did.

You cannot trust these companies. You just can't. Yeah. Yeah. And Alex, listen, there's the FDA has a similar level of trust problem in the sense that do you know how they determine whether something is or is not a vaccine reaction? I was reading some of their dad the other day, and I was reading all these tremendous reactions, and they were all cast aside.

Well, how did they determine that these were not vaccine reactions? You know how? They got a guy. They got a guy who looks at it. Some dude looks at it. It's unbelievable. Here's what you've got to look at, because this is what they can't hide. They can't hide the top line number.

So in other words, like, in the Moderna trial for kids and adults, too, there was a bad imbalance of side effects in the in the vaccine arm okay then they go through and they find reasons oh this say this severe adverse event or this serious adverse event is not related this one's not related because 18 years before you know the person tripped on a on a you know piece of wood and that's why he had a heart attack so it's not the vaccine right but if you forget their excuses okay just look at the imbalance in the two arms whether or not the company is saying it's related it's terrible side effects for the vaccine. And again, other vaccines don't have this.

The M&As, I mean, this is the biggest problem. We were sold this hype job in 2020 and 2021, that this was going to be the biggest advance in human health, you know, since penicillin. And it was just a lie, okay? Just like the human genome project, like that was, you know, listen, there's been some minor progress from that, but like that was a big hype job too.

We have not, we have not seen any real benefits from the MRNAs. And they are basically dead as a commercial, you know, vaccine technology for healthy, you know, for respiratory viruses, for other viruses. And they should be dead. They are not ready for prime time. Yes. But, but, you know, they are maybe, maybe a cancer treatment, maybe in desperate circumstances. That's right. Salmage cancer.

That kind of exactly right. But for, you know, vaccines that are going to be given to a billion people to healthy kids, they should never have been approved on this basis. And it's the Biden administration, look, I expect the companies to hype and to, you know, try to make as much money as they can. But it's the job of the regulators and it's a job of the science media and the media in general to ask the right questions. And they just absolutely, they didn't just fail to be actually promoting this stuff.

It's so sickening to me. I hope you can, I know you've taken action. as a result of some of these cancelings and censorship and I hope there's something you can get you can do here to kind of hold somebody accountable for all this and then we have the bigger question next so this is kind of sorting itself out and by the way Vinay Prasad was again very conservative

and just reporting things you've known for some time by the way but the next question is does this illness or did this vaccine make worse or itself the only cause clotting, heart attacks, cancers, other things we're starting to see, is that really happening and what's the cause? I think, I mean, you and I were talking about this very briefly before the show. It's so hard to tell, right? When you have events that are certain common and you have a vaccine that a lot, you know,

most adults got a lot of kids got, and then you have everybody who got COVID anyway, and, you know, I mean, there's all these other factors that drive these, you know, common illnesses or, you know, whether it's or diseases. So it's very, very hard to tease out. Now, again, I believe that Vinai and that Jay Bottacharya who runs the NIH and that

Marty Macri, who's running, who's Vanai's boss at the FDA, and there's a woman named Tracy Hogue who's very good. I think these people are going to take this very seriously and try to get answers. I'm not sure we will get the answers. You know, this, in writing about this now, it's hard for me to believe

that I've been putting up these unreported the true substacks for five years about this. There's been so little good work done out of the U.S. in particular, and maybe we'll start to get that. But, you know, U.S. scientists have been afraid to look at this, either on the sort of cellular level or on the epi level, the epidemiological level. And now that we have the people in charge who are willing to ask the questions and maybe fund the research to find some of the answers, maybe we'll get it.

But, you know, it is a really difficult question. and I think one of the simple things to do is to make a determination of what extent the spike protein is causational in the pathogenesis and if the spike protein is highly causational and you're giving people an agent that produces uncontrolled amounts of the spike protein you have not made things better and you have probably made things worse just to bet on the odds here you want some very good question and the other good question you know Yale actually

did do a study that came out almost a year ago that somebody leaked to me that was enough. You know, I mean, for better or worse, like, I get, I get the data because nobody else wants to run it. You know, that showed that in some small number of people, it appeared that spike protein was still in their blood years post-vaccination. So we need to know, is that a real finding? Is that some kind of weird artifact of the kind of test they're using? Is this, I mean, I don't believe that the MRNA has gotten into people's nuclei and into their DNA. But, you know, is that, is that what's happening? What is happening that is apparently causing in some unlucky people the production of spike? And if it's not happening, then let's get that answer to.

Let's get some answers. Well, I promise you, I promise you that will be a positive finding that we, we, there are multiple, including Redfield himself. Now, is Redfield, yeah, Redfield himself is studying these patients and he is finding persistent antibody persistent spike. and persist in symptomatology immediately post-vaccine. So I don't know. Cokes postulates are pretty well satisfied in that case, it seems to me.

But again, you will find that ultimately to be positive. The other question, this is my last thing, is what do we do with the medical publication system? That has been so severely adulterated. I've relied on it so heavily, and now I can't, I don't know what to do with it. I saw Jay Batatari say something that I love. He said, from now on, it's not going to be where you're published, but that you're reproduced, that what you publish gets reproduced,

I don't know, four times, five times, whatever it might be. What do we do? That is a great question because it's funny. It's funny you end with that because, you know, so before all this happened last week, I wrote this piece about the Pfizer-MRNA flu vaccine, not the COVID vaccine.

So there were this New England Journal. New England Journal is supposed to be the absolute best, right? The absolute best medical journal in the world, you know, maybe with the Lancet, those two. And they published this paper saying, The MRNA flu vaccine for Pfizer was, you know, they said it was 35% effective. Okay. I mean, that's not very effective, but whatever.

It is 35% effective in this big trial in 1864-year-olds. Here's what they didn't tell you, Dr. Drew. In the exact same trial, had a second arm, a larger arm, in people 65 and over. Now, those people are the people who actually want to, you know, not get the flu, right? It's much more dangerous to them. In that arm, it was negative. There was negative effect and massive side effects. And guess what?

The New England Journal didn't go to Pfizer and say, this trial had two arms in it. What happened with the people in the other arm? You can publish everything. We're not going to let you. How on earth anyone can trust the medical journals at this point? I don't know. So we're in a bad place with that.

And I guess, you know, things are going to be like they were during COVID when you have like groups of people kind of arguing and fighting and hashing out the truth. on Twitter, right? I mean, now X, but those, the Lange League stuff, that all came out of independent scientists on X. The problem, Dr. Drew, is that these trials are very expensive to run. So nobody outside the companies or the federal government can really afford to run them. So, so the journals are just going to have to stand up and say to these companies, we're not going to publish your junk just because you advertise them and they've not been willing to do it.

well listen i i stand uh on the sideline of plotting your work i always have i you can count on me to be in your corner should you run into more craziness with the censorship world um and please put all those substacks together in a book like with the historical sweep you know so we can see how this thing evolved because you were right there with it at the beginning and um it's just stunning what really would be interesting is the way you were put down you know what i mean i know what you said across that time. But what's interesting is the people forget that part. You don't. That's censored on Amazon.

Oh yeah. Yeah. Well that's it. That's a, you know, maybe it's time to do that. I would kind of like to get some more definitive answers but you're right. Maybe we'll be waiting another five, ten years and maybe I need another book before then. I appreciate the add-a-boy Dr. Drew and I will keep pushing.

All right. It's going to be a minute. I promise that. But at least it's underway. That's the thing I'm helpful. When Jay Bichari said they were considering him for NIH, I almost fell out of my chair. I thought I was in a Shakespearean play at that point. I thought I was like, oh, my God, this is amazing. You know, listen, there are things that I agree with Trump about. There are things I don't agree with Trump about,

but what he has done with, and what RFK has done by putting these guys in, that alone makes me, you know, very happy that he's in office, I would say. Alex Barrensen, Alex Barrensen. Alex Barrensen.com and Alex Barrensen on X. We'll see you again soon, I hope. Thank you, Dr. Drew. You got it. Now, NBA great.

Tim Hardaway, after this. Next year, the national debt is going to hit $40 trillion. As insane as that sounds, it's even worse when you consider unfunded liabilities for Social Security and Medicare. If our status as the world's reserve currency suddenly changes, our nation could collapse under the weight of its debt. And as we all know, there are many forces trying hard to take down that U.S. dollar. This is why thousands of Americans are moving portions of their retirement into physical gold and silver. Our friends at Augusta, precious metals have put together a three-minute report entitled, Debt Will Hit $40 trillion in 2026.

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He has a new book. Khalid, if you put the full screen up there of the book, I would appreciate it. It is how he uncanceled himself with dignity. It is killer crossover. Tim Hardaway, he's going to tell us his story. Tim, it's a privilege to speak with you. Thank you for joining us. No, thank you for having me, Dr. Drew.

So tell us what the story is, what happened. I think the headlines, I think people kind of know, but it's always different for the human going through all this. well you know a lot of people have asked me you know you need to write a book you need to write a book let's go back 20 years and I'm like okay well you know they always want to know what makes Tim tick what makes Tim a Hall of Famer why you know why did you go out there and play the way that you played at a short at your height and I always told him it's from Chicago you know I grew up in a abusive home my dad was an alcoholic

he abused my mom and once my mom left um you know my my parent once once my mom left my dad then you know i had to become the man of the household at sixth grade playing basketball going to school and all this other stuff so gang violence and drugs and all that stuff in the city of Chicago back in the early 70s and 80s so you know um it's just i just want to tell folks you know how i grew up adversities I had to get away from and deal with. And, you know, what made me strong and why did I, you know, was able to make it to the NBA and all the way to the Hall of Fame? You know, I got to know, I know quite well, Dennis Rodman, and he had a wild upbringing down in Dallas, too, you know, with a lot of adverse events and stressors. And it's interesting

you know, being in the NBA can help or can make it even more difficult after situations I have to experiences like that. And I, you know, I don't, you don't know this, but for a minute, I was the West Coast treatment center for substances for the NBA. And they had this psychiatrist down in Atlanta. He and his wife, she was a psychologist, he was a,

and they did so much good work for the players. I mean, to me, I thought, oh, my God, this is what you can do if you really pay attention and to care about your players and, you know, their well-being and put that ahead of other things. Did you get that sense when you're in the league? Well, you know what? Our generation grew up mentally ill. We just didn't know that we was mentally ill because we grew up in a way where your parents, you know, your parents said, do not go outside this household. tell people what's going on in this household or, you know, we're going to beat you up. We're going to give you a whooping, you know, and stuff like that.

So you were scared to go out and talk to people and tell them what was going on in the household. You had to deal with it. You had to man up or a girl up and you had to deal with it. You had to become, you know, you had to become strong with that. And that's the way life was back then, you know. Yeah. And listen, and there were many versions of that in this country, you know, different culture, different versions.

And weirdly, this is what I'm reacting to it, Tim. Weirdly, of course, it was excessive. But now we've gone too far the other way when people are coddled and they're pathologized for everything. Oh, my God. They did a 360-degree turnaround. And yes, we're so far the other way where, you know, we're scared to touch the kids now, your grandkids now,

you're scared to, you know, reprimend them for what they have done. Because they need to understand what you're doing is wrong. what you're doing is wrong and we can't do that out in the streets because somebody called the police and you go to jail but yeah but back in the day you know you if you

when your mom said don't or your parents say don't touch this don't go in a house somebody's house if they ask you if you're hungry if you're hungry our stomachs was touching our backs we were starving

but they you know we could eat you know so but yeah you know and I and I want to bring that story out because you know today it is different. Today, they have somebody to talk to. And I urge a lot of kids and grown people to talk to somebody because they need to talk to somebody. You know, they're killing themselves, you know,

and that's not a thing to do. I mean, that's just not a thing to do because we love you and we want you to live and we want to help you. You can always call somebody your friend, your siblings, names of somebody and somebody's going to help you to understand what you thinking is wrong. So, but yeah, I just want, you know, a lot of kids today, they insult my intelligence. They say they can't go and work on their game by themselves. I did. I worked on my game by myself. When my friends went out and hung out at different parties during the summertime, I used to go to the basketball court,

climb up on the rim, put nets on, and play one on, just play basketball by myself, thinking that I was playing against somebody that I'm going full speed, doing moves, doing a killer crossover, working on my game. And it was half moon. It wasn't a square out there then. It was half moon. So I had to work on shooting off half moon baskets. So, I mean, you know, when a kid tell me that they can't go work on their game by themselves,

it's just insult my intelligence because I did it and you just got to use your imaginations, which a lot of kids today don't have imaginations anymore because it's the phones, it's TV, it's a lot more channels, it's social media, and they want to be, you know, the it factor now. I want to put a little, shine a little light on something you said about the backboard. You literally just had a, you had a little frame of a half moon behind, you didn't have the big glass thing you ended up working with. You had to get your shot right. Yes.

Do you, another part of this professional sports is when you leave. How was that experience for you? Well, you know, it's tough. It's tough. That's why, you know, you have to know what you want to do five years, three years before you retire. You kind of know when you're going to retire, you kind of know when your body is like, okay, this is enough. unless you're LeBron James, and then, you know, you just keep going playing because, you know, I think he got another year or two in him, how he's playing right now. But you know, but you know when your body is telling you, hey, hey, you know, it's time. I think it's time. And you just got to start getting into different things, looking into different things,

and understanding what you want to get into, media, real estate, you know, trying to own your own team or what have you, you know, owning franchises, owning, you know, hotels or whatever. You just got to know what you want to get into and start it right then and there. So when you're done, you're a transition really good. But the ones that don't transition that way, you know, it kind of hurts because you don't have no more income coming in. You have to rely on the income that you saved and you had dibble and dabbling there. So, yeah, you have to prepare five or. three to five years before you you you you retire it seems like part of your story is service

that that's part of the the meaning making after after uh your career tell me about your involvement with the trevor the trevor project and how that all happened and what people are going to learn reading the book well you know uh i don't hold back i'm just going to tell the truth um you know it's tribe and tribulations it's ups and downs is adversity it's how you deal with it's how you deal with adversity. 2005, what I said about gay people was wrong, and John and Michi, and I, you know, I apologize to him. And once I realized that I, what I have done and what I did, you know, I had to rectify it.

My parents always told me, you know, even though my mom and dad was divorced, I still had them around, I still have them around, and they still talk to me, they still give me advice. And, you know, they talked to me and said, you know, where did that come from? Where did you get that from? And I said the way we grew up, how we grew up, you know, in the churches, around the neighborhood. You know, it was instilled in my head, you know, that's the way it was. But, you know, you got to come up. How did you, how did you sort of come to?

What was the process of coming to awareness that this was wrong? My family, my kids, my wife. my parents um my brother my relatives um you know they talked to me uh extensively um but you know they made sure that i was all right first they called to make sure i was all right then they you know they didn't belittle me they didn't jump all over me or anything like that they made me understand that you know you're wrong and you shouldn't you shouldn't feel that way and you shouldn't act that way and you shouldn't sound that way. So I got in, you know, not only with the Trevor Project,

I got with the Yes Institute in Miami, and I started talking to them, and I started going to classes, you know, for about three months. And we interacted with a lot of folks and transgender. And, you know, when I look at their face and when I hear their story And I went, when I, you know, listen to them how they talk about how their parents don't want them in the house, how they have to live out in the streets by themselves. And we're talking about 15, 16, 17-year-old kids. We're not talking about 30, 40, you know, 45-year-old people.

We're talking about young people that are, that don't understand life yet, don't understand the meaning of life. And, you know, and for me to say that, and my voice, people listen to my voice, you know, I think that it was wrong because everybody's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, now you can throw stones down. Now you can do whatever you want to do. But I had to rectify it, which I did. I rectified it. I went to class, made a wrong and to a right. And I made people understand that. We got to stop that.

We got to stop, you know, being hatred or being violent towards that generation because it's not right. They have people, too, and they need to live their lives the way they need to live their lives. And yes, I change. And if I could change, I think everybody else can change for the right and for the better. And I stick with that. I mean, you were canceled before there was the word canceled, right? and then you sort of uncanceled yourself with service and and self self-reflection. Yes.

Yes, I did. Hard work. I had to really, really, really get deep into myself and really go out here and make amends and make people understand that I'm making amends. This is not fake. You know, this is, this is for real. This is me doing something for real. and I'm going to continue to do it. If they want me to do it, if they ask me to do it,

I will go to different functions and help, you know, do whatever I can do. Are there other things in your crosshairs these days, not to pull off the crossover metaphor, but are there things you're looking at going forward that you want to get involved with that are similarly, addressing the hate that flies around in our country? Well, you know, I talk to kids every day all the time during the summer in Chicago. You know, I do different functions with the support group.

I go to different places and talk to kids and make them understand that, you know, go to school, get your education, listen. Listening is a skill. It's not an art. listen. I used to listen to a lot of people and I still listen to a lot of people because a lot of people have great things to say and that can help you out in your life. If I didn't listen to those people, if I didn't listen to those people, I mean, I'm not talking about people with PhDs. I'm talking about people that I met playing basketball in the streets of Chicago and I listened to the

old heads, as we call them the old heads. I listened to them and they taught me something just to listen to them. They taught me a lot about life and how to go forward in my life. And if I didn't listen to them, yeah, I could have been somewhere else. But I listened to them and I understood what they had to say. And that's why I tried to tell kids, if you give a person five years, 10 years, 15 years, 20 years old than you, five, 10 minutes, they can say something to you that can change your life, maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but sometime down the line that will help you out with your life where you get out of or make you understand, hey, I don't need to do this.

I need to bag up. I could walk away from this before anything happens. Yeah, Tim, I think that's a very powerful thing that sort of, it seems that we shouldn't have to emphasize it, but I really think we do these days. I have found myself saying, hey, look, I'm a time. time traveler. I've been traveling through time and I'm bringing I'm bringing some news. I'm bringing news to you that you could use things that you could learn from the time travel I've been through and and they they were I'm finding somewhat more receptive audiences these days

but they've been rejecting that for the last 15 years and I kind of get it we did that when we were younger too right I mean that's just what we did but but I think right now in particular they need to get the wisdom you know look here from here from the past we've been traveling who was your old head what was your old head is that what you called it old old head old head yeah um no your old head not old my own head my own head my own head uh probably i had other physicians that i you know i really soaked stuff up from in my training um let me think before that was there someone uh my dad a little bit i i would pick teachers and things along the way.

I want to say this. It takes a village to raise a kid, but the kid has to listen to the village. I had many of people talk to me about different stuff. I was good in basketball in high school, and I had a teacher name Ms. Hunter. She said, I got this little pen. Every time I see your head get big,

I'm going to push the pen in there and let some air come out so your head can shrink back. I remember that. So every time I played and, you know, and I had another good friend of my dad, I went up to block somebody shot off the glass. And after the game, you know, I had a good game. So I got in the car. And he's, and I was telling my story. He said, he said, look, M.F, you little bitty MF, don't you be telling your story.

That's why you got us here. We tell your story. You just sit back and let us tell your story. You just glorify yourself. with us telling your story. So I learned from that and I, and from those days, from them days, every time, you know, I thought that I was,

that I thought myself that I was getting from my briefers. I think about what they said and I calm myself down and I was all right. So that's how you keep yourself even key about things just by understanding what people are telling you and then it had come back around so you could just even yourself out and everything will be all right.

Yeah, it's an important time for those sorts of relationships. And I'm just so glad you're out there sharing your wisdom and being the own head, old head for somebody else. Old head. Old head. Old head. You're being the old head for somebody else. Yeah, I'm definitely the old head now. Yes, that's true.

Me too. But it's, it's. I'm the old headess. Well listen We will keep pushing the book You should get it Killer Crossover If you want to read the story in detail

It's all there There's a lot to be learned from Oldhead He's a time traveler too Like many of us And nothing He doesn't look old though But nothing could be more fun Than you know

You were a huge figure in the NBA For so many years And then you know Be sharing all this And people get the feeling They can get close to you through this book. I think that's a pretty big deal. So we appreciate you being here and appreciate

you writing the book and one day I look forward to meeting you sometime in person. Same here. I look forward to meeting you too and I appreciate you having me on. Must read. Must read. That's all I got to tell you. It will help you out. There you go. Tim Hardway, everybody. Thank you so much. Thank you. You can follow

is there a website, Caleb? Is it the underscore original crossover underscore king? Is that the Yeah, on Instagram. That's his Instagram account. That's where you'll find him. Yeah, he doesn't. So it's the, oh, it's IG, I see it.

The underscore, original, underscore, crossover, underscore king. All right. So, we are going to switch gears yet again. And we are going to speak to a television executive, who also was a documentarium. Marcy Hume got interested in Corey Feldman. And he became the subject for her documentary, where she, just documented what was going on in his life and it got pretty interesting

and she's here to report what she has learned and why she did it and what kind of interesting questions that old Corey really brings up for all of us by watching him and his reactions after this I'm excited to bring you a new product

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There's a lot of good stuff there. And there's, they're 25% off, I think. right now. Yep. We were using them and advising people to use them over the weekend on a lot of different situations. All right. So we are going to talk about Corey Feldman. Marcy Hume can be followed on X, Marcy M-A-R-C-I-E-E-H-U-M-E-H-U-M-E. And Instagram is also Marcy H-E-M-E-M- just one word. And do we have the link for the movie, Caleb? Is it just Corey Feldman? There's what Marcy. Welcome to the program. Hi, Drew. How are you?

Coreyfilm.com. There we are. C-R-A-Y-Film.com where you can pre-purchase, you can see a trailer. I think the trailer will be playing behind us a little bit here. So talk to me about you as a documentarian and how you ended up turning your attention to Corey. You know, I really, I was truly just fascinated by Corey. I think he is a person who is easy to dismiss. I think there are a lot of people that look at him. I mean, I saw the videos that he was making as he was trying to reinvent himself. And, you know, a lot of people were making fun of him and laughing at him.

And he has been through so much in his life. And I just thought there has got to be more here. And, you know, he was kind of being treated with such a singular layer. and I really felt determined to kind of explore what else was going there and just was endlessly curious about it. And so I did. I just developed a relationship with him and his world and ended up going on tour with him at a time when he was really trying to do Corey in the Angels and do that as kind of a musical interlude in life. And that just went places. that I never expected truly just went elsewhere.

So, you know, you follow, you follow what happens. Now, some people who look at Corey's behavior and go, Oh, give it up, Corey, come on. I understand it's hard not to be famous, but join the rest of us. And I think people get a little disdainful of some of this, or dismissive of some of this stuff. I really think, I mean, like all of us,

he is, I think he's full of dualities. I mean, you know, I think I would, would hope any good story allows you to grapple with, you know, yourself and all of the, you know, the things that we all balance. So I think anytime we dismiss people, that is a dangerous thing to do. And I think that the curiosity that drives, drove me to bother pursuing this so doggedly. And to really try and get into the layers of that world is the ideal curiosity I guess you would want to have about life. I think when we look at each other in a singular way like that or with a singular layer, it's obviously wrong. We're all, you know, we all have

so much going on within us. So I think that is what unfolds in this film. I mean, I, you know, in the beginning, I came into it just so curious about somebody who had lived their life in such a public domain and had such an idea of the narrative that they wanted to craft about their life, but so much more unfolded. And yes, I went along for a ride that I truly never expected. You know, I was, you know, he would tell me where they were on the road and I would join them on the road. I was on this tour bus. I was, you know, sleeping with my camera on this tour bus and would just kind of get up and go with the flow. And then, you know, he kindly allowed me to go long even when he was going on the Today Show and was really going through some extraordinarily intense

things and was just in his entire world. So there's so much in this movie, Drew, it's so difficult to talk about and the people in his life at the time. We took extraordinary care to give a full picture of the complexities and the intensity of all of the layers and all of the threads. of the time. So it's a deep and complete picture of the time, for sure. And how would you describe things that surprised you? Everything surprised me, honestly. I mean, I thought I was going on a rock tour, and that rock tour, which was just inherently intriguing. I mean, there's a lot in the movie that's very funny because, you know, it's what I, what I, one thing I resonate with so much with

not just Corey, but the entire band is they are doggedly, pursuing something. And I think anytime somebody is just absolutely certain they are going to do this thing or bust, I have such reverence for that because life is so hard. And, you know, when somebody's determined to do it, that's extraordinary in itself. So, look, the tour was, had its ups and downs. The crowds mostly loved it. But the tour, as you will see in the film, does come to a halt at a certain point. And things change. And so I, I ended up following some darker themes that ended up emerging in that world. So you just have to go with the flow and try and understand as deeply as possible what is going on in that world.

And so when he sees him, so one of the intriguing aspects about documentaries where the camera is just running and things happen, there's a lot going on. It's very much like reality shows. I hear people on reality shows talk about how when they have to relive or revivify something that happened six months ago or a year ago and then watch it on film rather than through your own eyes, so to speak, people have varying reactions to it, anything from massive denial to looking away to soul searching. How did Corey come to all this? well I was very grateful that he did watch the film you know I think and I think perhaps he would have been more a part of crafting the film you know he went and made his own documentary which is actually covered in this film so you know but I think there's a huge benefit to not having the subject be part of crafting their own narrative I mean I you know I think if we if we only

crafted our own narratives i think we'd be in trouble you know if we only kind of held the but you're not you're not documenting then you're sort of crafting something you're not you're running the cameras and documenting what happened and then people have to revisit it when you know when when you agree to do this kind of thing you got to revisit it and it's interestingly challenging yes but to answer your question i mean watching oneself on tape is can be excruciating in general. I mean, I don't think any of us have any idea what we actually sound like, look like. Most of us hate the sound of our own voices. So we just start there, right? But I think, you know, I always hope that people will come to things with an understanding of the value of the greater story, the value of

seeing something larger. I, you know, I had really hoped to have a larger conversation with him and to perhaps talk about different eras in life. You know, this was actually quite some time ago. So, you know, he may be a very different person now. And, you know, yeah, I thought there was a lot of opportunity to this. At the moment, I don't know that there's an opportunity to do that. So, but, you know, I will remain hoping. Go ahead.

Let's quickly kind of talk about there was a couple of sort of themes that come up for Corey all the time that people will want me to address. He's often talked about pedophilia. He talked about Corey Haim and the problems that Corey had. Do you have any different sense of that than sort of what the headlines reveal? He certainly talks about that. I feel really fortunate to have spent a lot of time and, as I say, have been invited into really intimate personal times that he was really struggling and facing a lot. So I think the value is, you know, he spoke so yeah, so intimately about those things and those are in the film. And I think you get novel information for sure, but also just an emotional intensity that is, yeah, it is

profound on those points. And you also, you know, you see him going through. through his process of wanting to make this documentary that he did put out, which was part of his process of coping with everything that he's been through. So there is a lot in there. And I did not go into the filmmaking of this thinking about those subjects whatsoever. But I think when you enter that world, perhaps those subjects are unavoidable. I suppose I should have I think there's another sort of layer on that same kind of theme that a lot of people think about, which is what happens to child stars, you know, people that are in the media as children. And I thought about this a lot.

I've met a lot of them. Danny Bonaducci, who was on the Partridge family, always told me that all the stars he knew, childhood stars, including himself who were having difficulty because their mother and father were problematic and they were and you're starting with

these are the kinds of parents that are putting a child into these environments and keeping them there and driving them through these processes of auditions and whatnot and it's interesting Danny said that the actor

that played Mr. Kincaid the manager for the part of the family saved his life that he saw this kid was in trouble and just sort of became a steady force in his life. But I've seen that over and over again, but that's not the only thing. There's

something about losing they often, because they don't have a great family life, their family life is on the set. That's where they started developing intimate relationships and those relationships disappear overnight. The production ends and pow, they're all gone. And it may be

after years in the case of a television production maybe after a few months in a movie production. And I'm wondering if you came upon any materials that pertains to these topics. And some of it also is, you know, again, they love the attention. They love the whole thing. They can't let go to the characters they were playing. There's so many different aspects to this. Absolutely. You know, this film is is a Verite movie. I mean, it's, it is embedded in the world. You know, it's not a talking head film that discusses these topics. And I think the huge benefit of that is that you feel those themes in a visceral way of somebody who had to grow up in an environment like

that that was in so many ways so difficult, so out of their control. And I think it just invites you to pay attention in a different way and notice these layers and wonder how that might affect a person. And it is, you know, it just really invites that attention to those and invites you to think about your own opinion of those things. And addiction has been a theme, or the substance use has been a theme in his life. Where did you find all? It seemed like he was, I mean,

he doesn't strike me as somebody with progressive addictive disease right now. He's sort of, whatever that was, it's not active right now in my sense. Canada's Wonderland is bringing the holiday magic this season with Winterfest on Select Nights. Now through January 3rd, step into a winter wonderland filled with millions of dazzling lights, festive shows, rides, and holiday treats.

Plus, Coca-Cola is back with Canada's Kindest Community, celebrating acts of kindness nationwide with a chance at 100,000 donation for the winning community and a 2026 holiday caravan stop. Learn more at canadaswunderland.com. You know, there are people that speak around that topic in the first. film, it's not something that I, I mean, I gave voice to many people in the, in the world, you know, to try and paint the fullest picture of the world. It is not something that I encountered deeply or in any way investigated.

So I know that that's a passionate topic for a lot of people. So I think there's so many other behavioral things around it. You'll have your own. you'll take your own opinion away from it well that's what's really interesting about the documentary you you there's a lot as there's a lot to take in and as much as you take in you end up with more questions and the more questions you have the more questions pile on that like I was very surprised I was it was not what I was expecting and I didn't walk away with a clear construct for what I what I saw I'm not I'm quite sure what that was, but the struggle was there, the humanity was there.

I didn't see any progressive addictive pathology. I don't think he'd be alive right now if that really were active in his life. Really active. I don't know, but hard for you to imagine that with that. I like what you're saying about, I mean, the goal, I think, was complexity and painting the fullest picture possible of what was going on in that world. And so I hope, I do hope that it provokes. attention to more kind of questions and understanding of, you know, not just him, but people,

people in general on how we look at other people. I think there's so much going on in this world. And look, there's also, I mean, the beginning of the movie especially is extraordinarily funny and absurd, and it's, you know, the pursuit of kind of an impossible dream. So, you know, it really covers the gamut. But I think all of us can, especially in that absurdity, see ourselves reflected, I certainly can. I mean, look, this movie took me nine years to finish, which is absurd in itself, so here we are.

You're lucky he didn't die on the way. Yeah, I would have had something to happen to Corey. Tell me about it. Oh, you know what? It's good. He didn't die, so that's the good news, right? No, no, he didn't. That's what, these are the kinds of question marks you end up with Corey. It's like, given what I'd heard about him and is addictive, I would think,

oh, this is going to be that story. It's going to be bad. It was not. It was not that. And then I thought, oh, what's he doing? Maybe it's this. No, it's not that. So, so good. Where do people see it? Right now, the trailer and pre-order link are available on Apple. So you can find that on Coreyfilm.com.

And then it will be available on December 11th everywhere. So on all your favorite Amazon, Apple, Voodoo, YouTube and all of that. Go to Coreyfilm.com, and then you can find the links on there if you'd like. Okay. And is it something where I'm just, just so everybody's prepared. Do you have to pay-per-view kind of thing? Or is it just if you have the platforms, it's on there? And right now, if you purchase it now, you pre-order, you just get an email as soon as the film drops. And it will, it will be yours. So that, you'll see it. Somebody on YouTube said, it's a good movie, secret bass rigs. Said that on YouTube? Good. I agree. And it has the reaction. been to it? What have people been telling you? You know, even in early screenings, people were really freaking out because it is, it, it just

covers so much territory, you know? It is funny and heartbreaking and complex, and it really does take you on a journey. Again, it's, it is so different than what I ever imagined, but you, you just, you kind of have an obligation as a filmmaker to follow what's going on and try and paint a comprehensive picture. But we definitely, I think, got to the depth, some of the depth I was looking for, but I have to say, I just think there's an infinite more that you could plumb, you know, as it is with humans. We just, we go on and on into our worlds of ideas and behavior. Yeah. Also, also one more thing. Ed Galvez on YouTube said that you're amazing director and loves your magician's documentary. Well, we'll get a shout at this magician's documentary. I made

that a long time ago, but that I will still stand by that movie. Of course, I would have made that differently now, but that's how things work, you know? And what will we learn by watching that? Magicians, you would learn also what it is to doggedly pursue something that you care about and dream about, and you would learn what it is like to be a magician, that's for sure. Wait, your bio says that you're on the board of the Academy of Magical Arts. Is that accurate? That's right, Caleb. Do they go to the Magic Castle? Learn something every day.

Well, Susan's brother is a long-term magic castle. Susan. Something. He is. He's a magician. Yeah, he has some status there. And he would go into that library that's like Dumbledorf's cave, Dumbledore's office.

And weird stuff would be revealed to him. But it is an odd, very odd, unique. world. But you've got to remember a lot of people started, Johnny Carson was a magician. You know what I mean? People forget that it's a lot of people's comedian-esque, particularly back in those days, started with magic. Yeah. Well, I will happily also give a shout out to the Magic Castle and the Academy of Magical Arts because I will also continue to try and do very cool things there as well. So we can have people pay attention to that. I can't believe it's still there. Even after COVID, it's still there.

It's under new ownership and new owners that are going to take it to great heights. So it's going to be there for a very long time. So maybe I'll see you there. It must own the land. They have to own the land. Marcy, anything else for you wrap up? Anything else you want to direct people towards or? No, I mean, I would love it. This is an independent film that obviously took every ounce of will

I mean, it's an entirely tiny team that just brought this together and felt that it was an important enough story to finish and make happen. And I, gosh, I love the film so much. And I think it's just so excited for people to see it. So I'd be thrilled if people can jump on and share it and pre-order it and all that. And I hope to have a continuing conversation with Corey about it. We'll see if that can happen. But otherwise, just really excited for people to see it. Thanks for talking about it.

It's great to talk with you. Maybe we'll bring Corey and you up here at one of these, one of these interviews one day. That'd be amazing. Susan's like, oh, Susan's out of that. I have another fun fact, though. Yeah. Steve Martin and my brother used to do magic together at Disneyland. Yeah, at the magic shop on Main Street.

That's what my brother started his, and he used to hang out with Steve Martin. Yeah. Well, before, you know, he just was a magician. No, Steve was a, if you read in. He sold magic tricks at Disneyland. Don't say just a magician, please. Don't break my heart. Well, Steve.

Steve has a, Steve Martin has a biography called Born Standing Up, I think. Before he was in. And he talks about that time in Disneyland and then, and then Nussberry Farm where he was in the melodrama theater and then moving, how he moved out of that. He is crazy. He's a supporter of the magic world. Shout out to that. All right.

It's hysterical. We appreciate you joining us. Thank you. And good luck with the film. look forward to people's reaction to it. Thanks so much, you guys. Really appreciate it. You got it.

Talk to soon. Thank you. All right. Coming up, we've got some interesting. Susan was just talking about on Thursday. We are thinking this day after tomorrow. Well, we don't know. Yeah, I haven't asked.

Well, but we are going to at least do some Q&A on Thursday. And they'll be in our normal time at 2 Pacific. With the Rumble feed. With the Rumble feed on the Rumble fans. So if you're on Rumble, you can ask questions. And we will just sort of get into it a little bit. tomorrow I'm delighted to welcome Tish Hyman. And if you don't know who Tish Hyman is, I don't know

where you've been living. But she cracks me up and she has a clarity of thought that I think deserves some elevation. And she was traumatized by someone who is known to be domestically violent. And she takes on politicians. And my favorite Tish Hyman moment, Caleb, get ready tomorrow, is where she's talking to, I think it's

Scott Wiener and chapter she keeps, everyone keeps telling her to shop, she was, I'm leaving, I'm leaving, and she gets out, but this is not good. This is got to support women. My name is Tish Hyman, and she walks out and drops the mic. I'm like, dip. I want to talk to Tish Hyman. So it'll be delightful

to talk to her much. She has a lot of interesting thoughts. And she herself is a she describes herself as gay and black and is concerned with women's rights. Corey DeAngelis has been taking on the school boards, the school unions for quite some time. He's very active in California politics.

Rob Henderson, Chloe Carmichael, just looking at what's coming up. Del Big Tree and Naomi Wolf, that'd be a big show. Peter St. Ange, Jay Palatier. We've got just a lot of stuff coming in here coming up. And I'm sure there'll be more. Susan is worried about Venezuela. And so there is some talk on Thursday about bringing I don't know.

We'll find out. This talk of maybe bringing one of our intelligence people that we've talked to here and there to give us an update on what I'm hearing is this. There's a China thing in the Venezuelan story, but bigger, there's an Iran story as part of the Venezuelan story. And I think we need to kind of educate ourselves about what is going on here. It's going to seem mysterious. It already seems mysterious. But I was around.

In fact, we, Susan. You want me to pitch the idea to the person, or is that, I just didn't know if you're... I'm up for it. But Susan, I know if you remember, but we were out of the country when Noriega was taken over. Oh, yeah. We watched the helicopters go by. That's right. And that was a similar kind of a thing during the Reagan era, where they went in and he was a drug lord and they pulled him out of there and they let the country run again.

And I think Noriega is still in jail here. Am I right about that? Caleb, do you don't even know what we're talking about? It was too, again, I'm a time traveler. Like I said, totally familiar with that. But who was the guy that Trump just like commuted his sentence? He was serving a sentence here. Is that the same guy you're talking about?

Yes. Is that him? Okay, a different guy. No. That was a very different thing. And again, whoever the, like I'd like to talk to Mike Benz, Susan. If you really want to talk to somebody, Mike Benz would be the guy. But he seems busy.

You want to text him? Sure. but let me quickly look at you guys you're all saying thank you we appreciate you all being here stopping by and watching the show on the Rumble Rants where we'll be taking our questions

on Thursday okay you guys aren't as agro as you normally are over there on the ramps on the rants okay excellent agro like that's an old term from the 70s meaning

aggressive. Agros. We need some agros. We need some energy. We've got to get over the turkey comas and come back.

Hope everyone at a great Thanksgiving. We're now well into the holiday season here and we'll be here with you. We'll see you tomorrow

at four o'clock Pacific time. Be there. Ask Dr. Drew is produced by Caleb Nation and Susan Pinsky. Emily Barsh is our

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