Ask Dr. Drew - What Is China Hiding About COVID-19? Michael P Senger (Author of "Snake Oil") Speaks – Ask Dr. Drew – Episode 90

Episode Date: June 3, 2022

What is the Chinese Communist Party hiding about the origins of COVID-19... and what's the real story behind the shocking January 2020 videos of people collapsing in the streets? Michael P Senger is an attorney based in San Francisco, CA, and the author of Snake Oil: How Xi Jinping Shut Down the World. He has been researching the influence of the Chinese Communist Party on the world’s response to COVID-19 since March 2020.  Like many of our most interesting guests, Michael Senger also enjoys the distinct honor of being banned by Twitter. Read Michael's book "Snake Oil: How Xi Jinping Shut Down the World" at https://www.amazon.com/Snake-Oil-Jinping-Shut-World/dp/1957083786/?tag=drdrewtv-20  Follow Michael Senger at https://michaelpsenger.substack.com  [This podcast was originally broadcast on May 4, 2022. Watch at DrDrew.com] Ask Dr. Drew is produced by Kaleb Nation ( https://kalebnation.com) and Susan Pinsky (https://twitter.com/FirstLadyOfLove). THE SHOW: For over 30 years, Dr. Drew Pinsky has taken calls from all corners of the globe, answering thousands of questions from teens and young adults. To millions, he is a beacon of truth, integrity, fairness, and common sense. Now, after decades of hosting Loveline and multiple hit TV shows – including Celebrity Rehab, Teen Mom OG, Lifechangers, and more – Dr. Drew is opening his phone lines to the world by streaming LIVE from his home studio in California. On Ask Dr. Drew, no question is too extreme or embarrassing because the Dr. has heard it all. Don’t hold in your deepest, darkest questions any longer. Ask Dr. Drew and get real answers today. This show is not a substitute for medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. All information exchanged during participation in this program, including interactions with DrDrew.com and any affiliated websites, are intended for educational and/or entertainment purposes only. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Very interested in today's show. We are bringing to you Michael Sanger, S-E-N-G-E-R. Michael P. Sanger is his Twitter handle, which you can't find because he is in Twitter jail, and he will speak to us from Twitter jail. In the meantime, you should check out his Substack, Michael P. Sanger, S-E-N-G-E-R, .substack.com. And the book is Snake Oil, How Xi Jinping Shut Down the World. He has been interested in studying the policies of the Chinese Communist Party and their impact on the world response to COVID. And you've heard me talk about this for a while. I keep bringing this up as sort of something that has bothered me. Let me just frame it before I bring, and Michael is an attorney in San Francisco, by the way, and so he's a good thinker and brings us lots of good information and

hopefully can answer my questions because I've had this nagging concern from the beginning. If you remember, I got myself in a lot of trouble by saying that the press needs to shut up and stop demanding lockdowns and stop demanding non-pharmacological interventions like school closures that weren't being recommended by the CDC or anybody else in medicine. And where did they get these ideas from? China. Italy followed what China did based on nothing. At the time, it looked to me like some sort of face-saving maneuver by communist leaders to prevent information or a sense of failure from leaking up to the higher level communist party members in Beijing. That's what it looked like to me. And then we have the Shanghai lockdown now,

which is exactly the same as Wuhan. And Michael will straighten me out if I'm not right about that. Same as Wuhan. And how does that look to you now? Does that look smart? Does that look like a smart intervention? There's Michael Sanger. Our laws as it pertained to substances are draconian and bizarre. A psychopath started this. He was an alcoholic because of social media and pornography, PTSD, love addiction, fentanyl and heroin. Ridiculous.

I'm a doctor for f***'s sake. Where the hell do you think I learned that? I'm just saying, you go to treatment before you kill people. I am a clinician. I observe things

about these chemicals. Let's just deal with what's real. We used to get these calls on Loveline all the time. Educate adolescents and to prevent and to treat.

If you have trouble you can't stop and you want help stop it, I can help. I got a lot. Educate adolescents and to prevent and to treat. If you have trouble, you can't stop, and you want to help stop it, I can help. I got a lot to say. I got a lot more to say. BetMGM, authorized gaming partner of the NBA, has your back all season long. From tip-off to the final buzzer, you're always taken care NBA, has your back all season long. From tip-off to the final buzzer, you're always taken care of with a sportsbook born in Vegas.

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Did I frame this in a proper way? And can you set me straight, either confirm or refute any of this? These things have been flying around in my head. No, I think you phrased it exactly right. From the very beginning, what we saw with COVID-19 is that the entire response to COVID-19, those lockdowns, has really been one giant snake oil sale, hence the title of my book, Snake Oil. When it turns out, when you go back and you research all these policies, beginning from those strict lockdowns that shut the entire world down, brought the entire world to its knees in March 2020, they all just go back to what China, the WHO, essentially rubber stamping, and national health authorities as well, essentially just rubbing rubber stamping what China claims succeeded in their super lockdown of Wuhan.

You find China's paw prints on every single one of these policies from the lockdowns to the ventilators, which turned out to be an absolutely horrible policy. Unfortunately, there was a grassroots campaign by medical practitioners to put a stop to that. But in the meantime, in those first two months, you know, 97 percent, this came out that over 97 percent of those who were put on a ventilator over age 60 were killed by it. I mean, this guidance that came out about these ventilators just extraordinarily deadly in the early part of that pandemic. You look at mask mandates, you look at vaccine passes, every single one of these policies and mass testing as well, that idea of mass testing both symptomatic and asymptomatic people with these PCR tests, you look at that guidance, the cycle thresholds, set you know far too high you know 90 false positive rate is

confirmed by the new york times you know where does that come from where that cycle threshold guidance come from that also comes from china based on what they said to wuhan that one lie that you know this super lockdown wuhan was able to control the virus is, you know, what all the response to COVID-19 was based on. So was it as naive as that, that they believed that what Chinese were doing? And by the way, they, who we say when we say they believed, the only people I saw believing it and demanding it were non-medical people and primarily journalists or school board members. That's where I saw it all coming from. And that's why I was freaking the hell out. I couldn't believe it.

And or governors who were essentially doing just whatever Trump wasn't doing. So we sort of had another wave that came that emulated China, but it was because it was the opposite of the White House policy at the time. Am I getting that correct? That is correct. You know, all those psychological factors go into it, you know, the groupthink, the, you know, tribalism. But, you know, it was a lot of people and institutions pretending to believe this lie that China had eliminated the virus. You go back and you think about the narrative on which the response to COVID-19 is based.

The original lie that through this two-month lockdown of Wuhan, the super lockdown where you had all these people saying, oh, well, China, they eliminated the virus from the entire country because their lockdown was super, super strict. And it's like, we can't do that in democratic countries. But look what China was able to do. You know, they welded people in. It's you know, apparently that was the secret after all these centuries to eliminating common respiratory viruses.

You weld people in and the virus goes away. So through this two month lockdown in one city in China, they were supposedly able to eliminate the virus from all of China, but nowhere else in the rest of the world. You look at all the countries around China, their cases were all soaring to all-time highs, but apparently this virus understands national borders very well. It is complete nonsense, this narrative, jumped out of China and infected the rest of the world, but through this one super lockdown in one city. It's absolute nonsense.

But that is how all propaganda works and that's what this really is the entire these policies are not real policies what all of them have in common utterly ineffective and actually slowing a respiratory virus like SARS-CoV-2 extremely psychologically effective in sowing the idea that there is this super virus all these policies from you know the lockdowns, the masks, the mandating masks, this constant reminder everywhere you go that you're expected to believe that there is a super virus. The, you know, vaccine passes, obviously, this, you know, forced vaccinations, this constant reminder that there is a super virus that necessitates this

blanket suspension of human rights. And when you think about that, that is the perfect pretext to dismantle the principles of the Enlightenment, the idea of human rights. Every single one of these policies, you can see how it's targeted a specific set of Enlightenment principles. You look at lockdowns, that's the right to work, the right to employment and the right to free movement is undermined by the idea of lockdowns. Then you look at vaccine mandates and mass mandates, that's the principle of bodily autonomy.

Then of course, you look at, worst of all, this war on misinformation. That's, of course, goes to the heart of, you know, free speech. That's the perfect pretext that, you know, now if you have free speech, it's, you know, you can't have that anymore because it endangers lives. And these are all, you know, pretexts. It's like, okay, that sounds plausible, you know, because there's this super virus out there, this pandemic,

that's too dangerous to have free speech. If you don't think about it very hard, you just say, okay, that makes sense. But when you think about it, and it's in every single political conversation that has ever happened within democratic countries, how have those not potentially endangered human lives being on one or the other side of that debate? You think that free speech during the Civil War or during World War II did not endanger human lives, but we managed.

It actually makes absolutely no sense. And that's how all these policies are. They're pretextual. They just have to be plausible enough for you to shut up and just follow orders from scientific authorities. It's a pretext to create that centralization of authority. Where is that coming from? Is that just the psychology of the Chinese Communist Party that got sort of co-opted because of an insane panic? Or was that something

intentional, premeditated in some weird way? It's hard for me to imagine the latter. That is an open question. There's no question. What has been proven very thoroughly, in which I go into great detail about in my book, is all the different modes of influence that the Chinese Communist Party used to promote these totalitarian policies around the world. Through various propaganda, the influence that they built up in elite institutions over several decades, their abilities to manipulate science journals, they were able to essentially launder these totalitarian policies into what we call the science, which we're following, follow the science. All that we now know extraordinarily destructive and extraordinarily ineffective when did they plan that um it could be that this was essentially kind of a just an extension of the same propaganda they were telling themselves domestically and therefore um you know

this is kind of something that i think that's it yeah yeah i think that's it. This is their values. It's their operational system. It's what they want to impress upon their people. And therefore, why not the world? Just like we want democracy to flourish elsewhere, they want these principles to flourish. And of course, definitely a very efficient way of doing that. And that's what makes me think that there could have been a certain amount of premeditation behind it, is the psychological sophistication, the philosophical and psychological sophistication of this propaganda. Just how effectively this virus serves as a pretext to systematically dismantle these rights, and also the timing of it. Because when you think back to that initial lockdown, it's so dramatic. It's just this, you know, this really, what they're doing is casting millions and millions of people. They're destroying millions of livelihoods, casting millions of

people into extreme poverty. That was reported immediately. That's something they knew was going to happen immediately when they implemented this policy. But suddenly elites are telling you that's okay. That, you know, ignore everything you knew about, you know, Judeo-Christian values and, you know, the principles, the alignment. That's okay now because now there's this, so just don't question that, you know, we're going to, you know, sentence millions of people to starve just for the crime of being poor and nothing else but that's okay now and that is so dramatic that you know once you've gone along with that with the entire media and all the you know supposed scientists in charge and your own government was telling you that you know you're essentially a bad person if you don't consent to this um you know New York Times, they're comparing people who didn't consent to those initial lockdowns to neo-Nazis. It's hard to remember now that there's a growing consensus

that those policies are totally ineffective. But people were demonized for opposing these policies. And think about how psychologically effective that is. Because once you'd supported that policy, especially if you're in any kind of position of influence or power, you've now supported a policy that destroyed millions and millions of lives for no good reason at all. That is so difficult to accept. There's only so many people that will accept bribes. There's even only so many people who will accept being blackmailed. But once your ego is attached to this idea that there has to be a supervirus, especially if you think you're special, you're in a position of office politician, and suddenly you've used your power to support this policy that has destroyed so many lives, it's like, that can't be right.

There has to be a supervirus. It just, it conjures that idea into the world. It's the perfect way to seed that idea. And then what happens is that people want, they psychologically want to reject any evidence of the contrary. So they filter out the scientists. And of course, they're also being told that this virus is also a pretext to censor people you know those opinions are endangering lives so we need to censor those people only listen to the scientists who are telling you that we need lockdowns we need mass mandates we need to dismantle you know just one more human right

just like look what how effective it was what china did in wuhan through their super lockdown you know they were able to just two months and there, one and done, get rid of this virus. Obviously, in a possible goal. Because China's data was just a farcical lie, as I captured on the cover of my book here. You look at it, it goes up, and she gives the order, and it all just flat lines. Absurd premise to begin with. You get rid of this ubiquitous respiratory virus by just giving away one more of your rights, just being a little more like China. But regardless of what happens with the cases, whether they're going up, down, or sideways, the answer is to get rid of this virus for good, you have to be more like China.

So what you're talking about with this ego investment in a particular position is is called cognitive dissonance and cognitive dissonance is a normal human phenomenon so it's a glitch in our brain systems and we all have it we all must fight against it and worry about it because it prevents us from changing course, prevents us from adopting our position. I call it stupidity. Well, it's what scientists are very carefully trained to think against, to be careful that they don't succumb to it. And even with our training, we still succumb to it somewhat. I got a million questions for you. First of all, how are people receiving this message that you're putting out there

and your data it's been a challenge you know i've been doing this for the last two years looking into um china's uh just the influence of the chinese communist party on the response to covet 19 and how i got around to start doing that you know i like you um saw those lockdowns and i was absolutely horrified. I did not think that was right for them to sentence millions of people, just destroy small businesses, destroys people's livelihoods. And the narrative just didn't add up. It didn't make any sense to me that we were just being told that the World Health Organization

was in the pocket of the Chinese Communist Party, but all of a sudden we're supposed to just follow whatever they say and implementing these totalitarian policies without question. The narrative didn't make any sense, but when I went around, I think at first, in the first couple months, I was just looking for people who might be seeing it the same way. I was looking for anyone with a platform to get this message out and see if anybody else was looking into it. But I look at, you know, officials, journalists, you know, celebrities, really anybody with the platform. I didn't find anybody. And that was the scariest time around

April, May 2020, is that i realized that these policies which had turned you know half of the world quickly turning half the world into china um there was nobody there seemed to be nobody out there with the platform researching you know the influence of the chinese communist party all these policies. That was terrifying to me, and it seemed extraordinarily unnatural. So that got me researching, taking on more and more full time. It became an obsession just looking at this data. And the more you look at, the more damning it becomes. Because it wasn't just those initial lockdowns that came from China.

It's every single one of these policies. And this information is all hiding in plain sight. How is it possible that I am the only one now telling you about this? Because the story doesn't begin just in 2020. It doesn't necessarily begin with Xi Jinping. It dates all the way back to when Henry Kissinger and Richard Nixon reopened China to the Western world. This influence has been building up for several decades. When we first reserved relations with China, there was this idea that China was a poor country, the Soviet Union was the real enemy, and that's why we re-engaged with China, because it would drive a wedge with the Soviet Union.

And that was effective. The Soviet Union did collapse in part because we re-engaged with China. But then there was this idea that China was a poor country. We didn't have to worry about them as a significant threat. So we developed this longstanding policy of change through trade. That meant that we were just going to resume, have these commercial races with China, and basically treat them as a normal country.

And then over time, they would realize that Western values were the way to go and they would become democratic like us. And for a long time, it seems like everything is hunky dory. All the news we're getting from our elites, from the sources who go to China, business people, academics, everything.

I mean, it all sounds great. It sounds like this policy is working well. What we didn't realize was that the reason the messaging was so rosy, the reason they were saying everything was hikidori, was because China was slowly absorbing them into the system. Our systems were slowly merging with each other. And this was so gradual under China's moderate leaders, that was practically invisible.

It was in areas like economics, human rights. There are more and more of these absurdities generated by the Chinese communist party's propaganda machine began to be normalized and, uh, repeated by legitimate elite institutions. This corruption. David Pérez, Give me Give me an example of this merging. Describe what you're talking about. So you now have elite institutions,

some of our elite universities. One of the more absurd ones is China always makes these promises that they're going to be carbon zero in 10 or 20 years or whatever. And so we have policymakers, our politicians say, oh, look, China made this promise that they're going to be carbon zero. Therefore, we have to cut some of our energy production, cut some of our

have to invest more in this sustainable energy. The problem is China never actually takes action on any of it. It's just nonsense. It's just this BS that because of the influence that they've built up within our own elite institutions, universities, think tanks, media outlets, they're just indulging these fantasies generated by the Chinese Communist Party. And it's all hiding in plain sight. You hear all these things.

These are all things that we all know. You know, you hear that, oh, you know, China, Hollywood can't write any script. You know, the major production houses will not produce any movie that's overly critical of China or that China doesn't even want. They basically censor every script that comes out of Hollywood you go Weird I wonder why the Chinese Communist Party is doing that. Oh, well, we do and you hear that China is you know Investing tons of money within our universities and you say oh, that's nice. Oh, I don't know why they're doing that Yeah, well and you hear that they're sponsoring these really, you know, expensive trainings

and developing relationships with our media networks. And you go, that's interesting. And you hear that, you know, every single business school, you know, sends students over to China to get wined and dined by the partners. Like, wow, it's impressive they have the money to do that. I wonder why they're just like, you know, wining and dining ordinary young business students. I just appreciate being part of the capitalist system that much.

What they're actually doing is creating an entire system that normalizes their own totalitarianism, which never actually changed. The first off ramp, the first sign that this wasn't working happened in 1989 with Tiananmen Square. Going back to what happened then, you had this massive protest movement. Lines of people miles long, even party officials were starting to join in the protests. Everybody was just overjoyed. They thought that China was going to go the way that Gorbachev was bringing the Soviet Union, and suddenly you'd have democracy in China. Instead, you know, Deng Xiaoping, the paramount leader, sacks the higher officials who agreed

with protesters. And of course, you know, this just unbelievably violent crackdown just, you know, kills thousands of Chinese people in cold blood, as all the leaders rounded up. And the world was horrified. Just for a couple of years after that, China was isolated. But then our leaders tell us, oh, that's okay. That's over there. This is the way things are in China, but they're still changing. So we're just going to go back to normal and resume relations. That narrative made absolutely no sense is it okay for a government to just you know kill thousands of its own people in cold blood and we're just going to go back and pretend everything's normal

because they're supposedly changing um that made no sense and now the bill for that is coming due what happens in 2012 the economic the econ the economic uh sort of uh um you know apple you know the the holding the economic uh potential out there is really what we were going for right we weren't interested in paying attention to these other things because the potential for the economic benefit to this country and the world was too enticing too enticing i don't see how we could have possibly done otherwise yeah let me i'm going to take you back to when you first came to all this what what were you doing and what did you think as you saw all what you thought you were saying i mean what so you were horrified by the lockdown why you know did you tell other people

what did they think about your lack of, uh, sort of enthusiasm for what was going on? And then how did you kind of, well, I mean, what's your story? What were you doing at the time? How did you come to this and how did it sort of evolve? I was horrified. And, um, you know, it's been quite a long journey thinking back to what it was at the beginning. I was just kind of your typical wall street journal, um, New York times economist reader. I didn't have any platform, basically never used social media. Were you practicing law? Yeah, practicing law, background in accounting, background in law. I do tax law full-time.

So some background in forensics, economics, and just a you know passion for history and geopolitics that i'll just i don't know i'd be the right person at the right time but um yeah i was horrified i told anybody who would listen you know my facebook friends uh just uh usual facebook account like everyone else told my own family um and you know got a lot of pushback you know very few people saw the situation the way i did i think it's just too psychologically overwhelming you think if you're just your average liberal in 2019 it seems pretty simple you just kind of you know our elites seem to have everything under the control you know all the media is um telling me telling me that our elites are doing a great job and everything's going

well. You have this kind of liberal order and I wish we were more liberal like Canada and Australia. They seem to have things going really well. Just all the news you're getting is all rosy. Then what happens is that one day in 2020, you just get bombarded with this absolute psychological blitz that suddenly you can have no more rights anymore because there's this virus.

And the media is prohibiting all debate about this, this just absolute nonsense narrative, this sweeping policy across the world. And there's really never been anything quite like that before. Let me ask you something. Let me ask you something. How did you know that the policy, because at the time there was a lot of, let's try to dampen the curve.

Let's see if we can make a difference here. There was a lot of like, well, maybe we can. There wasn't the kind of certitude, the kind of religious weird quality it got later that you were either a good person or a bad person based on your COVID policy. But at the beginning, it was like, well, we got to do something. We're planning for the worst case. That's why I kind of went along with it, even though I was upset by it. I was like, all right, these guys are trying to do something and maybe it'll work. I don't know. And maybe, you know, two weeks to blend the curve, fine, two weeks, whatever. But when did you realize that it was absurd? Because it took me a little while to really conclude how absurd the

policies were. I just kept saying, I don't understand why we're doing this. Never done it in medicine before. We've never quarantined healthy people we quarantine sick people and there was only one lockdown that i knew of in the history of medicine and that was in the 12th century in venice in a plague outbreak and it failed horribly and and that's all i was aware of and i couldn't understand how magically the policy of a of a you know scientist from new mexico's high school daughter essentially i don't know if you know dr glass and his daughter and that whole story i'm sure you know that that that became the foundation for a policy that it seemed totally insane but looked just like what was going on in wuhan that's for sure so how did you know it to be an insane policy at the beginning

it just the narrative was just too absurd me, it was really kind of a human rights issue. You know, I've, you know, always taken an interest in, you know, geopolitics and what's going on in the world, and that includes the developing world. You know, first I see Italy implement this policy, and it's just, you know, I think like everybody else, there's just a shock, like, shock. It's like, huh, Italy? You know yeah they're part of the free world they're like us well and and my response to that by the way at the time i went no wait a minute italy's health care system is totally different than ours they are not prepared for this kind of thing we are much more flexible we have a much more improvisation we we can handle this we don't have to do what italy did italy did it because and by the way i remember listening to

some lectures by the the italian physicians and they botched it all up completely, completely botched it up. And so that's the policy now, but go ahead, continue. Yeah. And then, you know, I see the next place that these lockdowns happen and it happens in a couple other countries in Europe. And then it comes to California. Yeah. That's the first state to lock down within the United States. And I grew up in California. That's when I knew something was seriously off. Because California is a new place. This is the Wild West not so long ago. Just totally antithetical to our values as Americans,

especially in California, to simply tell everybody that they have to stay home, that they can no longer have their business or work anymore. I mean, that just is something that seemed very off at that point. And then what really did it for me was seeing the lockdowns in the developing world. Seeing them just cast millions and millions of people. I don't think anybody will ever forget those scenes of you know people just thrown out of work in India and South Africa

And they're just marching and this massive exodus. They have absolutely no idea where to go They live thousands of miles away from home or whatever and they're just marching on foot and this exodus completely, you know Complete disregard for their well-being. Millions and millions of people were killed by this policy. And they're in these tight packs of people. I mean, it doesn't make any sense. And of course, it didn't make sense here in the lower income threshold, you know, you're, you're forcing entire families into tight packed, you know, enclosed quarters when this virus, like all respiratory viruses,

just like the plague occurred. Susan, I know what, what Michael was saying about China is something that you've been very suspicious about forever. I was listening. Yeah. But you know what? Also, there's one thing that he didn't mention was that Trump really pissed off the Chinese. So when he cracked down on the trade situation.

The currency. And you remember a lot of people were buying a lot of property in the United States. And then all of a sudden, they were selling everything and going back to China. So, you know, there's a lot of rules and they hated Trump. And then, of course, a lot of people hated Trump over here, too. So that that part of it really inflamed everything, especially California. We have, you know, a lot of people coming through California from China, you know, through San Francisco. And they you know through san francisco and they you know they saw the cases growing fast here but um also in new york but i don't know i just it's the teachings of communism and trying to enlighten the world with it is something that they've been doing for hundreds and hundreds probably thousands

of years you know since you know mao and whatever but i wasn't thousands of years, you know, since, you know, Mao and whatever. Mao was in thousands of years. Yeah, but before that, it was more like, we want everybody to be like China. Well, China had a very collective history in their social work, social service system. But when, you know, communism took over and that was successful for them, they realized that the West was a threat so um i don't you know i think that he's right on i think he's spot on with his um his history and what he understands it makes total sense to me but people seem to be why do people react negatively to your messaging

i'm confused you have it's a point of view it's substantiated with data it's made if you're not a trump follower too like if you're they'll just say you're you're a a trumpite yeah you're just a trump lover you're not you're not you're not sort of a mega person right although no i was uh you know actually quite politics shouldn't come into play yeah yeah yeah and as many you know bill maher and many many many people were and i feel like they were left behind by by their liberal peers. But in any event, I always worry that I'm missing something. When people react really negatively to the kinds of things you're offering rather than engaging with it, I always feel like, what am I missing? Intellectual. it i i always feel like what am i intellectual what is going on here why do people react to that yeah it's just the data just let's engage with it that's all if you're just if you can find

something that suggests otherwise let's hear it wouldn't you say michael oh absolutely um but it is very personal people take it at a very personal level uh because they know what it means they know they know what it means about what they supported going back to those initial lockdowns huge buy-in from the public it was it was you know pretty much um across party lines it was you know all debate was being prohibited about it it was coming from media outlets you know the narrative didn't make any sense when you stopped to think about it logically the numbers didn't make any sense none of it made any sense but you're being bombarded with on social media on mainstream media outlets on the television from your own friends from your own family to you know stay quiet and support this policy.

They did what they were told and they, you know, shouted down people who disagreed with them. That's a tough thing for people to admit that, you know, the people they were villainizing and calling neo-Nazis were the heroes on the story. They don't want to admit that. And okay. You go with elites, policymakers policymakers well-educated elites um you know professors why have them they've been such dunces about all this like what is what the silence there because they're all socialists they love it they love it they love to be contained and hang on you guys are no i'm, you guys are jumping.

I will defend against those opinions. I have one in my family. I understand. It may be true, but that's a leap. Well, listen, I went to college, okay, and I studied Chinese history. My Chinese history teacher was nothing like the other teachers, but I had to toe the line to the left in order to pass my classes a long time ago and it's still like that our kids came back socialist after they finished their you know liberal arts education and there's nothing wrong with that they should

learn that you know what i mean not everybody should be on the right but but they are um very protective of they like socialism they of, they like socialism. They like communism. They like different thoughts of government. They promote it, you know, because they want kids to understand all of it. But I just feel like everybody hated Trump, and they had to go as far to the left as possible. And they're the ones locking down, not the right. Yep. There's a lot of that circumstances, like you were saying. There

was a huge revulsion against Donald Trump. There was that long time left-leaning bias, and that's largely because of the period we're in. You look at the big events. The last time the political left got something this wrong geopolitically goes all the way back to the early 20th century when they got the early rise of communism in Russia wrong. The left was big champions of what Stalin was doing in Russia at the time. That was horribly wrong. And they got Hitler wrong, but that is kind of cross-party lines. Everybody supported Hitler back then. But that was another big thing that the left got wrong. And then they got China wrong as well in those early days. So the left got some things wrong then. But in more recent history, the time in which policymakers grew up in, the time in which in living memory, it was always the right getting things wrong.

You grew up with Vietnam, horrible for the political right. They were all in on this war that was completely unwinnable. They were all in on Iraq, another unwinnable war. They were all in on Afghanistan, another unwinnable war. The right just keeps screwing up. So among the educated classes, it just becomes loathsome to be on the political right. It's just ridiculous. So that is a big blitz when any sophisticated person on the political left, or at least center, suddenly, just like that one day, the left get something absolutely horribly wrong

And that what it comes back to you know Let's talk about chairman now and who he was because we talked about a little bit about modern Chinese history But this is actually deeply rooted in the history of the Chinese Communist Party You know people you know might learn something about Sherman Mao when they're little. The man was absolutely one of the most brutal tyrants ever in all of recorded history. Won the Chinese Civil War. The Chinese Communist Party came to power in the Chinese Civil War. To this day, it's kind of a mystery of how they actually won. But the psychological manipulation, propaganda, is essentially what the party is. That is their mastery. And they mobilized millions and millions of people to fight for them in that war.

The actual party itself only comprised about 0.01% of China's population. Extraordin extraordinarily small. But they were able to mobilize millions and millions of people with this idea that suddenly people would be able to share everything. It would be egalitarianism for everyone. That turns out to be an utter lie. Mao is one of the most manipulative, ruthless people in all of history. Soon after, when in the war, the communists win and their rivals are sent out to Taiwan. Soon after, over 80% within three years after the Chinese Communist Party takes power in China, and I don't tell you this because it's just too grisly and horrifying,

80% of the entire population of China have been reeducated through struggle sections and public executions having to partake in those. Shortly after that, you have the Great Leap Forward where the entire population is moving on to communes. Tens and tens of millions of people are killed. It's the largest famine in human history. After that, you have the Cultural Revolution where all of China's artifacts are killed. It's the largest famine in human history. After that, you have the cultural revolution where all of China's artifacts are destroyed. I mean, it's just this utterly

dystopian history. And that comes to an end. And people are killed for making art. Yep. Yep. China is the only country in all of history to actually gauge in the systematic destruction of its own history, its own historical artifacts. That's how insane Mao Zedong was, the man who had absolute power over China for decades in the 20th century. Yeah, it was incredible how they did that. It's incredible how they were able to take millions of peasants and just tell them okay you're all equal now you're all getting a potato sack to wear and you're all going to work in the farms and if you fight we're going to kill you i mean it i the armies were all set up and he just how he did that is just amazing so so i have a bunch of questions still so so how thank you for reviewing that

history i think it's important that and and by the way just the cultural revolution by itself is a a chapter of brutality that and insanity that people look at it just just google it and see what you find uh if you're somebody with a degree or a profession today, imagine your government collecting all of you and either re-educating or killing you. All of you. Anybody with a profession or education. That's right. That's it. That was the Cultural Revolution.

Well, you saw it in Cuba, too, right? So when Cuba was taken over by the communists, we've been to Cuba. I mean, everybody's on this island. Like, if you need a tylenol you you can find one on the island i mean it's it's just they have they're they're just they all have to do the same thing they go to school till they're in the third grade and then they work in the fields and that's it all right and they're the educated people don't even make any money so you know we've seen it there too. Well, let me just clarify.

They have some good arts and they have some good sciences. But when we went to the Copacabana or whatever it's called, our guide, we have to have a guide, was sure to point out that these are some of the highest paid individual in the entire island. The dancers. The dancers at the Copacabana. Some of them making as much as $ a month incredible yeah so so there you go um how will history i know and they're so impressed with it too it's like we're buying 200 with cigars you know how will history get this will they get it right? What you're describing, will they see it from your perspective or at least allow your perspective

to be part of the historical narrative? I'm not just talking about China. I'm talking about COVID. I'm optimistic that they will. I think it'll take a very long time, many years for the truth to finally come out because people's egos have to dissociate from it. That takes a very long time. You think back to Vietnam, you think back to Iraq,

it took over a decade for people to come around and say, hey, that was a really bad idea. You think back to darker examples, the Great Leap Forward in China. At the time of Mao's Great Leap Forward, experts around the world, the people who are speaking as experts on China, insisted that no famine was happening. It was the largest famine in all of human history that was happening at the time. They insisted no famine was happening. It was only about 20 years later that people learned what had actually happened. In modern times, totalitarian regimes manage to keep these things hidden at the time. But eventually, as time passes, the truth does come out. The, you know, academics, diligent academics do, you know, just in the background, once

everybody else has kind of moved on and forgotten about it, they do their sort of diligent work and they kind of push the narrative farther toward the truth. And eventually, you know, it does go down correctly in the historical history books. I think that, you know, future generations are going to look back and be absolutely horrified as to what transpired. There's just never been a more Orwellian farce in American history. I hope you're right. I hope you're right. I agree. I've said it a million times. I agree 100%. I hope we get our feet back under us where it doesn't have some repercussions, where the ability to tell history honestly becomes distorted, much like it has in China.

But also, really quickly, somebody's making issue about Cuba talking about their great vintage cars. Yes, they have these beautiful vintage cars from the 50s. They're owned by the government and run by government employees, and you have to pay to get your picture taken with those cars. That's how that works. Yeah. But they make money. And there's only a few hundred of them over there too. They're really cool though.

They're nice. They don't have new cars because they're not allowed to have new cars. Right. So, hang on. I got a million questions. So, there you are uncovering this history. And how did you sort of, did you just start researching it and then say, I've got to write a book about it? And then how did you get kicked off Twitter?

Yeah, you know, I started researching and writing about it. And, you know, the smoking gun came around June, July of 2020. So after, you know, a few months of lockdowns, an article came out in the New York Times about China's disinformation surrounding the pandemic. It turned out if you go to the bottom of that article, you click one of the links, you find this bot campaign. And what I found was hundreds of thousands of these bots that had stormed Twitter in every single language in every single country, hundreds and hundreds of thousands of these bots that had stormed Twitter in every single language, in every single country, hundreds and hundreds of thousands of these tweets, all in the exact

same words, right around March 2020, when the world was going into lockdown, saying how, we're just sitting here washing our hands. That was the line they all use, we're washing our hands while China is implementing this huge lockdown. And you follow that, and it turns out that bots had stormed every single world leader who resisted these lockdowns, systematically in every single country, every single language, and demeaned and kind of insulted leaders who didn't go along with this policy. Just this massive, unprecedented social media disinformation campaign to try to normalize these lockdowns. So I wrote about this on Twitter.

And, you know, to my surprise, it actually went viral. I started to get a huge Twitter following. And I was contacted to write an article about what I found. And so that became my first article, you know, China's lockdown propaganda campaign. You know, kept writing about it on sort of a daily basis for the last two years and developed more and more of a following wrote some additional articles Was involved in an open letter to our intelligence agencies who seem to have completely dropped the ball on all of this Along with some other

you know big influencers. And the result of my research became this book, which I would argue is my sort of the culmination of my work over the last two years. And I really encourage people to read it because it's the best thing that I've produced. And I do want it to have sort of artistic and historical value.

I do think that, you know, meets that standard, the reviews and reception has been absolutely extraordinary. So I strongly encourage people to look at that. That's my, uh, look into that. It's my best work. How do you get kicked off Twitter? So that was, uh, just over a month ago. Um, just tweeting about the normal stuff I do every day.

And I'd had a, you know, I'd been suspended a couple times, probably eight months prior to that, but, you know, really very carefully, I'm a lawyer, I'm trained to follow complex rules and navigate sort of Orwellian rule systems. So very careful to, you know, diligently go way out of my way to comply with whatever Twitter says the rules are. But I'm talking about really important stuff on this political debate on the side that they don't like. The idea that this virus is not

this super virus. It does not justify any of these suspensions of people's rights. And so ultimately, anybody who takes that position and has enough influence, they ultimately censor. I'd say most of us activists, the vast majority of us who have built a substantial following and been active on that side of the debate, just trying to calm people down, trying to say that these policies, these mandates are not justified, nor are they scientific. Most of us, the vast majority have been censored, who have been activists within this community

has become kind of a rite of passage. So one day, I make a tweet that's very typical for me, but fortunately it was a very powerful tweet to go out on. The irony is that got a hundred times as a bunch much attention because this has been before it, saying that, you know, the reason, it was a response to an article in The Atlantic, which has been, The Atlantic magazine has been very pro-COVID hysteria. And it was one of these articles saying, oh, you know, there have been a million deaths. And it's like, how are people moving on and not having more mandates when they have a million deaths? Like like how did this become normal in people's minds

and my response you know i tweeted the article with a response to it saying you know um the public has you know come to accept this because one way or another that they might might not be willing to face the implications of it because the implications are absolutely horrifying that something could happen like this in the free world. Though they may not be willing to face it, they realize that every single one of these policies from the lockdowns to the mandates to the vaccine passes to the tests and death counting has been one giant fraud. Obviously just a statement of opinion.

I don't think any reasonable, I don't even think an unreasonable person would read that as the other statement of opinion. But, you know, an hour later, I find out that, you know, typing mid-sentence, my account is now permanently suspended. There's no seven-day suspension, which they usually give people, you know, that's kind of a last warning. They just suddenly, that's it. You know, I appeal, and they say you know this suspension is permanent um please do not appeal again basically well some of this i i wouldn't i don't know that it was fraud what happened to dr fauci and dr burks i mean they still i understand the ego investment but they they are you know people I've looked to for decades for guidance and good opinions.

They still believe that they were doing something right. They never asked for school closures. They never asked for some of the draconian sort of action that some of the states took. I almost wonder if they didn't appreciate what they had brought. They didn't really get what was happening in California. They lived in the isolated bubble of DC and didn't really. I'm not sure they ever fully got what the consequence were of some of their policy making.

I think a lot of ways they were repeating what the media echo chamber, just repeating that back to them. They were telling people what they wanted to hear with absolute cavalier attitude to You know the implications of what these policies would actually do you go back to what thought she was saying just you know months before and This is common to a lot of the health officials that have been influential throughout kovat What they were saying just you know months before is that you should never do anything like lockdown it's just absolutely horrible idea you know you have fauci is quoted as saying oh you don't mass that's the stupidest idea don't do that people you know make these hysterical decisions and soon after he's endorsing them what changed there um you know i think fauci is very much just a political

animal he just uh you know tells people what they want to hear. It's not been my experience of him for 30 plus years. It really has not been. I feel like I need a better explanation than that. I'm sure that's part of it. I'm sure he is a political animal. But it's something, it's just so peculiar to me. People I've really, and by the way, when I got myself in trouble, by the way, by just telling people to calm down like you, and then what I, but the part they cut off of every statement

I made at the time, which was listen to Fauci, listen to the CDC, just do what they tell you, which, you know, CDC never asked for school closures to my knowledge, or at least for, you know, not until it became commonplace. Then they started sort of accepting school closures, what it seemed like, which by the way, it's common to a lot of these policies they simply accepted what you know was being done that just kind of became normalized because they everybody's so terrified of being on the other side of that debate seeing what was going on with people on the other side of that debate it was all narrative control and I would argue that that is these policies are fraudulent for that reason, because they're

not part of any Western pandemic plan. In fact, it's the opposite of what the pandemic plans said that you should do. They were not adequately tested or debated in any real scientific sense, unprecedented in Western history. Yeah. Rather, they were just taken from China based on, you know, what China said they did, uh, but said was effective. That is not to me a legitimate source for policy within a democratic country. Uh, how is that possible? I've been saying it forever. It goes back to, it goes back to the influence that the Chinese communist party has built

over our latest. But here's the thing. Why do you get kicked off twitter for that like it i mean it's just like they're not helping the situation by just saying okay we'll get rid of this guy because he's going against the narrative you know and it i didn't like when we couldn't say hydroxychloroquine or you couldn't get hydroxychloroquine or you couldn't say ivermectin people are trying to help prevent people from dying you know from covid before we had the vaccine and that that's the part like if you said ivermectin on on youtube

you lose you know you'd get a strike which i'm probably going to get one again today anyways just for saying it today yeah but that's what bothers me like whether or not you're right is i don't know exactly what i can't speak for what's going through their minds. But those, you know, totalitarian decisions have become very normalized, especially, you know, over the course of COVID-19. They just got so used to censoring anybody on that side of the debate. It doesn't even matter if you're diligently following the rules that they, you know, say in their own tweets. It's just anybody who, you know who is on the other side of the debate is supposedly endangering lives, and they ban you just based on that pretext. It's the

perfect pretext for this sort of totalitarianism. And that is the biggest danger, because even though these mandates have been rolled back for the time being, they have not been denounced by most left-leaning states and countries. They simply declared victory and said, oh, we saved tons and tons of lives, but we don't need these mandates anymore. Really, it's just a response to how unpopular they became. But they did not actually denounce the policy. And so now you're stuck with this norm,

which was definitely one of the goals to begin with, that elites can just claim something as science, just suspend human rights anytime they want just based on these vague promises they're doing so saves lives and you see how normal this has become to many folks you know especially on the political left to um just ignore these rights and how you know they now feel that free speech is somehow a danger to democracy itself. And, you know, it's like they have that will to power. It's getting, one of the,

one of the, one of the phenomenologies I have uncovered in all of this is in my profession, the, the big risk factors, uh, for trouble occur and have occurred repeatedly over the last 150 years with the first opioid epidemic,

the opioid crackdown, the first opioid epidemic, the opioid crackdown, the second opioid epidemic, psychosurgeries, psychoanalysis, each of these disciplines, pain management and the overprescribing of opiates, and then the COVID response, what you find is some period of centralization of dogma and authority, like some discipline picks up and said, you know, psychoanalysis is the only effective means of treating mental health patients. Frontal lobotomies is the only hope. And we're going to solve all the patients with chronic schizophrenia and make them comfortable again with a frontal lobotomy.

And the centralization occurs. But the next ingredient is the leaders in this centralized movement have to perceive their task as a holy mission. They'll often use that word. I thought I was on a holy mission to end serious mental illness. I was a holy mission to end serious mental illness. I was on a holy mission to end pain in America. I was on a holy mission to help the Civil War veterans with hypodermic needles and morphine. This sense of a holy mission is when it goes wholly horrible for humans. So keep an eye out for that. I wonder if politicians have a similar thing that goes on that is an absolutely excellent point

covid is the perfect pretext not only to introduce those totalitarian policies but to create a sort of fanatical cult because they believe they're saving lives and once they get into that they've invested so much into that just you know demonized anybody who disagrees with them they were so invested in the idea that there's a super virus that is just going to, you know, so super deadly and just like you can't have human rights anymore that they become fanatical about that policy

and believe that everything is self-justified. That anything they do from, you know, censorship to, you know, demonizing their neighbors to, you know, abandoning the poor and the working class that's all justified

because they are saving lives from the super virus it is the perfect pretext to create that sort of religious zeal that holy mission right the uh what does dr z dog call it the covidians and the covidiots those are the two the two holy categories holy holy camps. I want to switch to China again for a minute, and we're going to show some videos. And Caleb, if you could also find the videos of the trucks rolling down the street, ploring chlorine. The kinds of videos that came out of China at the time struck me as particularly strange. Here are people just dropping over in the street. Oh, boom, I'm dead. That's it. me as particularly strange. Or here are people just dropping over in the street. Oh, boom, I'm dead.

That's it. That's why we have the policy we have in Wuhan. It looked to me almost like the trucks rolling down the street and these weird videos with people in white suits that didn't make any sense to me, almost as though they were ready to hand that the Chinese in Wuhan, the government locally, had this kind of policy ready to go, this sort of intervention, should there be a leak from the lab. It sort of looked like something that they were sort of prepared for. So is it possible that all of this is the result not so much of a desire to distribute their propaganda and their totalitarian ethos but really they knew something and didn't want to be blamed for it and were doing what they, it's not a believable response because the Chinese Communist Party has

been, has been widely confirmed, was aware that this virus was spreading by November, 2019 and shut down Wuhan until January 23rd. I mean, unless this virus moves at the speed of a slow turtle, you know, that is not going to do any effect. That said, the Chinese Communist Party historically just kind of makes up reality as they want. And that's what we saw in Wuhan was the entire lockdown was just theater, was for domestic and international consumption. And what we saw with those videos, you know, the world's first impression of this virus was, you know, those fear videos that people are falling dead in the streets and they're just, you know, piles of bodies everywhere. And, you know, people having these seizures and they're welding people in.

Why did they do that? Why did they do that? Why were they so anxious to push that out? To me, it felt like something. Like they were trying to save face or, I don't know, it felt like something like they were trying to save face or i don't know it felt like something i don't know yeah that's what's scary is what point of releasing a bunch of videos of people falling over dead it painted the chinese communist party in a very bad light the idea that you know they were just letting all these people die and they were you

know abusing older people and people were just horrified by these images you know welding these poor people in that looked like a real fall to me though terribly so what is the purpose of that the only really reasonable purpose is to sow fear and a lot of that you know you look at what city did they choose to shut down they chose to shut down the city with this lab in it. That is obviously complete nonsense that you're going to stop a lab leak that occurred back in 2019 by shutting down a city three months later, but that is absolutely terrifying. Not only did the dictator shut down the city with a lab in it, there's a lab in the city that he shut down. Now you're getting all these videos showing that people are falling over to the desk.

We didn't know at the time that this virus is spreading since November 2019. And we thought it just started spreading right then. So it looks like, you know, China is responding to this actual super virus and they're doing everything they can. You know, Xi Jinping, you know, is, you know saint xi jinping um you know is you know helping the world by implementing this lockdown and you know he's gonna save us all by you know putting his own people through this you know what a great guy um no that's all theater uh and of course you know the whistleblowers we start hearing the stories of whistleblowers and it all

is this narrative that you know oh these whistleblowers were blowing the whistle on the super virus coming out of Wuhan and then you hear about the World Health Organization you hear that you know they are in the pocket of the Chinese Communist Party but you know that's only relevant for the fact that you know they were downplaying the virus at the start really it's a super virus and they were trying to hide that. You should still do whatever they say with response to COVID-19. That entire narrative falls apart because those videos were completely fake. The lockdown policy we now know is completely fake because those are months after they do,

the virus is already spreading. The whistleblower stories were fake the story of leeward lane which is all over you know mainstream headlines everything that formed our initial impression was fake but who was that guy because that that's that video he took of himself on a ventilator looked totally fake to me yeah completely trying to be i'm afraid yeah yeah i look like it was completely good health but it was you know how did you find that out how did you how did you find that out my contact uh you know dug into the story and it turns out that you know this entire story of li wen lang uh was actually

produced by one of the chinese communist party's older oldest propaganda outlets a month after it supposedly happened the guy's name doesn't even appear until you know um a month after it supposedly happened. The guy's name doesn't even appear until a month after these events supposedly happened. And that story just gets rubber stamped by our top media outlets. And our own security agencies, that's why you have this bipartisan pro-lockdown consensus at the very beginning, just eat this up because they're hawks and they think, oh, only if the Chinese Communist Party would stoop so low as to endanger millions of lives with the super virus. So they want to do everything they can. And the scientists are embarrassed

because they funded this lab and now, oh, it looks like might have leaked a super virus. It's all a false flag. There was no super virus leaked out of a lab. Or if it was a lab leak, it happened long before the lockdown in Wuhan, but the Chinese Communist Party did everything in their power to make people think there was this lab leak to get this universal buy-in for these strict lockdown policies.

Preston Pyshko, I'm buying your book right now. So if- Kelly Cervantes, I love it. Preston Pyshko, If I just did. Kelly Cervantes, Me too. Preston Pyshko, Yeah, I bought it for you. If you're trained as an attorney and you're trained to look at multiple angles on an argument, if you were to be critical of your position

and the data you presented, what would your analysis be? How would you attack your position? Thinking of some of the best critiques I've had, I think some folks have presented some arguments that I would say this. You know, it's entirely possible that groupthink played a much bigger role in this than I've been arguing. And would you call it the mass formation psychosis that Peter McCullough was talking about? The sort of hysteria, really. Mass hysteria is what it was. Yeah. I'm thinking back to one of my favorite articles

by one of my contacts who sees it a bit differently. He sees public health as this institution, a relatively new institution in the grand scheme of things, one of my contacts who sees it a bit differently. He sees public health as this institution, a relatively new institution in the grand scheme of things, didn't really have a clearly defined role as to, you know, they had all these fancy degrees. They were very well-educated. They would especially eliminate a virus.

Sometimes in history, they would simply, you know, they couldn't eliminate a virus like in history they would simply you know um uh they couldn't eliminate virus like a uh respiratory virus and they didn't really know when to apply mandates like when that was appropriate like what how much influence would have over policy so you know they just like uh the public wants them to do something about it and so they start you know implementing more and more mandates and there's more and more fear and every mandate it has is counterproductive and just makes people more scared. So it's all just like this big sort of cluster. And I think there's a lot of truth to that. I think public health as an institution was not really clearly defined in that they were supposed to be doing. That said, this same contact of mine does agree that the know the chinese communist party um deliberately

instigated these events to a certain degree it's simply undeniable when you look at the evidence that's uh that's presented that um their own propaganda look to sow fear of this virus and um promote their own totalitarian response to it and let me go back to the public health argument and uh talk talk about the centralization and the holy mission theory that I put forward. I noticed about 15 years ago, a lot of physicians had MPH after their name, like Masters of Public Health. When I was in training, you would never do that. Why would you get that? What does that do for you to have an MPH? Well, part of that training is to prepare for your holy mission when there's a pandemic. It's a preparation for the mission.

It's like being an astronaut or something. And not only are they prepared for their holy mission, many of them aren't physicians. In L.A. County, it's a sociologist running public health. And when they are physicians, they're often pediatricians. And the pediatricians don't really understand adult medicine. I don't understand pediatric medicine. I wouldn't be making decisions about pediatrics because that's where most of the vaccine programs are directed, at pediatrics. So the public health guys became pediatricians.

And so they're on a holy mission. They're not properly trained. They're sociologists, so they don't understand risk-reward or clinical judgment. Speaking of a cluster and its poorly defined role in the Constitution, what its powers really are, that has to be hammered out in the court. Do you agree with that construct? I absolutely agree with that. That's a debate that I think we're inevitably going to have to have in the aftermath of this, is what is public health's role? I think at the very minimum, it needs to be seriously scaled back. Or the training different. with public health how did it get to be so big so ill-defined and uh so influenced by the chinese

communist party why did the chinese communist party going back for over a decade build up this level of influence in the world health organization cultivate it so carefully we heard that this happened but of course you know yeah we were told the exact opposite of the real reason we were told that, you know, you should still follow whatever the WHO does. Why did we follow this organization that is known to be completely in the pocket of the Chinese Communist Party? Because the World Health Organization is being used as a front organization. That's how the Chinese Communist Party was able to get so much mileage out of this organization, knowing even though everybody knew that it was in the pocket of a totalitarian regime. Because when the mayor of Florence or the mayor of Los Angeles just suddenly announces,

oh, okay, I'm just going to shut down Los Angeles and suspend everyone's rights and maybe I'll follow the rules, maybe I won't, because the dictator of China did it. No, you can't do that. I mean, there's downright treasonous. There would be no buy-in. But when that same policy goes up through this fancy sounding institution, the World Health Organization, and wait a minute, that's in the pocket of the Chinese Communist Party, but your own leaders are telling you that's okay.

Your media organizations are telling you that's okay, follow them anyway. There's a super virus out there, follow it. It gives this cosmopolitan veneer to these totalitarian policies. They're essentially front organizations that these totalitarian policies are laundered through. And that same cosmopolitan veneer you're seeing all over the world. And that's another, you know, psychological effect that has a big impact on well-educated people. They say, you know, all these fancy countries, you know, France is doing it. Our, you know, liberals love France and, you know, Canada and Australia gives this cosmopolitan veneer to these policies that are totalitarian and brutal and dumb

and unscientific and ineffective. And their beloved Scandinavia didn't. Correct. So what was the goal that Chinese Communist Party had with building up this influence in the World Health Organization? So that's sort of the punchline of what we're getting into with Chinese history. We're into Mao, the absolute tyrant. We're into the pure moderate leaders. In 2012, what happens is that Xi Jinping takes power in China. And Xi Jinping is fanatically loyal to Mao Zedong's original communist ideas. His idea is that the capitalism communism cannot survive. And one of these systems is soon going to have to die out.

The world is going to have to pick one or another. And of course, as he sees himself as the leader of communism within the world, he knows, you know, what system he's going to choose. You know, he issues these papers saying that these papers saying that human rights, democracy, free press, all these enlightenment principles are a danger to the Chinese Communist Party. This is all the way back in 2013. And develops this policy of unrestricted warfare, of exporting China's totalitarian system throughout the world very aggressively.

So what you see, and of, you start hearing these awful stories if you follow geopolitics about his system of concentration camps, which again goes back to the Chinese Communist Party's combination of public health and security policy. It's the same policy of lockdown is inspired the system of concentration camps. And then in 2020, that influence of the Chinese Communist Party built up in the Western world over decades, Xi Jinping essentially what happened is he pushed that into its highest gear.

And so you're bombarded with this propaganda campaign, this influence operation at all levels, at the personal level, with the social media propaganda telling you to support these lockdowns. Through media organizations telling you, you know, support these lockdowns and there should be no debate about it. Through universities, you know, they are strongly incentivized not to criticize China or question, you know, their obviously fake data. And then through, you then through influence over politicians. It's this very, you know, this huge psychological blitz. Suddenly, everybody is believing this absurd lie.

But it's like, huh, you know, these are all really smart, intelligent people. And they're supporting this. There must be some truth to this. And so what happens in March 2020 is that using this influence, the Chinese Communist Party is so carefully built up, which our security services have let their guard down about after the Cold War. Xi Jinping is able to snap his fingers and say, you have no more rights. And you look at the New York Times and you look at The Economist magazine and they turn to you and go, yeah, I'm afraid the boss is right. You have no more rights. I want to ask you a question.

Real quick though. The World Health Organization did push back midstream. They started saying that lockdowns were a bad idea. I remember quoting them quite a bit and it only caused poverty, but then they were sort of dissenters within the World Health Organization. They were advocating that, but go ahead, Susan. So in Shanghai, what's going on with the lockdown? I think it's a precursor of a bigger thing. What do you think?

I mean, that's a whole other story what the CSB is doing right now in Shanghai. You know, they're keeping the idea of a super virus alive, this idea of containing a super virus alive. And part of that is because, you know, they have to go by this lie. You know, they can't sit down whenever you kind of these communist party members and say, yeah, this is a lie,

but you have to pretend it's true. They just don't know for the vast majority of members, they have to pretend it's true, but it does keep it alive. And so, you know, they can declare victory anytime they want. And we get back right back where we started with, you know, our scientists saying,

oh, look, you know, China did it did it again they eliminated the virus that's just more proof that these uh policies these mandates are really great things i've got to wrap this up um there's i think we did a pretty good justice now i got to go read the book and make sure i collect all the data that you've accumulated and i know. Somebody did it, Drew, for you. It's awesome. I know. I don't remember how I found you, but I knew I was interested in your point of view. I do hope history catches on to a lot of this.

I don't have the faith that it will have the same clarity that you have or interpretation that you have, but I at least hope that when the day is done, we will understand that this was a, particularly what we did to children, what was a, was a scandal. It was a giant scandal. If we don't,

as you pointed out repeatedly, um, not only will it happen again, if we don't, as you pointed out repeatedly, not only will it happen again, but the forces that were driving it will have their way with us. Is there anything you'd like to say in closing? It's true. No, I mean, I agree with everything you've said. What's happened is an absolutely heinous crime.

And I think future generations are going to be fully aware. And as blistering as, you know, people are probably thinking, this guy's got a blistering message. I think our children are, you know, compare what I said to what they're going to have to say 20 or 30 years from now. And what I'm saying is going to be nothing. They are going to be absolutely horrified. And it's going to be it's a monumental shift in our political discourse. I remain very optimistic that the truth will come to light. We're winning in this. I don't think whoever is behind this did not count on the sophistication of our resistance and just kind of the spirit of the Western world and how much those principles mean to people. The mandates have been back um and there is a big political shift you know and i think that we have warded off totalitarianism a lot of ways um the ideas my arguments have uh gotten a really big reception and more and more people are finding out about it

every day michael p singer s-a-n-g-e-r right s-e-n-g-e-r I beg your pardon on substacks michaelpsanger.substack.com thank you for joining I hope you'll come back after I read your book with an e and I hope you'll come back again and as this evolves we'll have more to say no doubt

so thank you so much thank you so much Drew pleasure is all mine God bless you and Susan I knew you'd be interested in this because you've been having your spidey sense up about the chinese component you know i'm just i'm just blowing smoke out of my ass i don't know what that well you've been very worried about you but you had a sense that something more was up yeah i mean michael's got a clear i understand communism. A lot of people don't even know what that means.

You know, like the younger generations, they don't really know. They're like, oh, we need to be socialist in this country. It's like, I don't know, you should probably go to China, see how you like it, you know, and then come back and let us know. Because it is something that is bigger well and what we're not i'm not you know unless you're convinced he has a very specific point of view i'm not convinced that that's the whole story because he did say you know this could be a mass formation psychosis there could be sort of a psychological piece yeah but that's how the chinese are they they're not going to go to war they want to do it all psychologically i understand it you can you

can all be true right everything? Everything can be true simultaneously. It's not, it has to be one or the other. Listen, if it was a communist plot, they got their way. Our economy sucks. Our kids are screwed up. We're all weak. We all feel like we have psychiatric problems.

We're taking drugs and dying. True. We're drinking. Yes. We're having no sex, which is totally wrong. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Our kids are having no sex.

They didn't have a life. I know. I just had to throw that in. And I hope they're angry about it. No, but they're getting their way. I think they're laughing their ass off every time we get on an airplane with a mask on. Well, we're not. Which, by the way, the CDC wants to bring back. No, they're laughing their ass off every time we get on an airplane with a mask on. Well, we're not. Which, by the way, the CDC wants to bring back.

No, they're suggesting you wear a mask. They're not mandating it. Oh, they're not. I have no problem. Suggest you wear a mask all you want. I encourage people that want to protect themselves, get a well-fitting N95. I wore one the other day. I don't know why.

I forgot I had it on. But if you're fully vaccinated and you have a hybrid humidity and you don't really care, don't worry. But don't think you're protecting anybody else because you are not. But listen, I have to go. I didn't mean to make you mad. I've got another call to make.

This is one of these days. I gotta go unload the groceries. Caleb, thank you for producing this. Michelle, thank you for booking Michael. Caleb, I think your mom might enjoy this show i think she might like this you think yeah that that's where you uh found him it's my it was my brother who recommended it and then i looked into the book oh this guy might have some interesting stuff to say oh okay i remember how i found it i knew it's caleb's brother is producing now that's

good we're i'm open to these interesting ideas and And thank you, Caleb, for getting us out of YouTube jail. It felt good. We may not last long. Hopefully today won't put us back in jail. Yeah. We should have probably stopped the show midstream and sent everybody over to Rumble just in case, but I forgot.

Well, we'll see. We'll see. And I did push back on a little bit. If we get censored, I just want to let everybody on YouTube know that we appreciate you being there today. Just keep keep an eye on if you're on locals we send out notifications of whether whether the show will be on YouTube or not we also put it up on Twitter and we also have just subscribe at Rumble and you'll get the message from there right so if you

and by the way I have no great affiliation with Rumble they just I just like I I like them they don't censor us where i can go you know what i mean but i don't do they send out notifications right as the show starts rumble yeah caleb some sometimes but i usually send them out if people sign up at drdrew.com then they'll usually get an email when the show goes i actually posted one today okay oh you've been doing that okay so please do that sign up at dr.com so we can tell you where to yeah we're we'll be on twitter though every day before the show. So if you want to know where to find us, if it doesn't pop up on your stream, it means we've been censored again.

I hope you like listening to them. I think they're very interesting. And if you have suggestions, as I've said repeatedly, contact Dr. Drew.com. We'll be in tomorrow at 2 o'clock, 2 o'clock tomorrow with the one and only Tyrus. Yes. Be back with that. We'll see you then. Ask Dr. Drew is produced by Caleb Nation and Susan Pinsky. As a reminder, the discussions here are not a substitute for medical care, diagnosis or treatment. This show is intended for educational and informational purposes only. I am a licensed physician, but I am not a replacement for your personal doctor and I am not practicing

medicine here. Always remember that our understanding of medicine and science is constantly evolving. Though my opinion is based on the information that is available to me today, some of the contents of this show could be outdated in the future. Be sure to check with trusted resources in case any of the information has been updated since this was published. If you or someone you know is in immediate danger, don't call me, call 911. If you're feeling hopeless or suicidal, call the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 800-273-8255. You can find more of my recommended organizations and helpful resources at drdrew.com slash help.