Ask Dr. Drew - White Lung Pneumonia Outbreak: Is It Connected To mRNA or COVID-19? w/ Tom Renz – Ask Dr. Drew – Ep 295

Episode Date: December 11, 2023

Ohio attorney Tom Renz returns with updates on his billion-dollar pandemic cover-up lawsuit involving Ecohealth Alliance, Peter Daszak, and Ralph Baric – and shares details on the “white lung disease” pneumonia outbreak in Ohio and China. Renz accuses the CIA and Department Of Defense of being involved in COVID-19: “I have the receipts for all of it. The US government was directly involved and Congress has an absolute obligation to investigate the role the DOD and CIA in this.” Tom Renz is an attorney from Ohio. Find out more at https://renz-law.com and follow him at https://twitter.com/RenzTom 「 SPONSORED BY 」 Find out more about the companies that make this show possible and get special discounts on amazing products at https://drdrew.com/sponsors • GENUCEL - Using a proprietary base formulated by a pharmacist, Genucel has created skincare that can dramatically improve the appearance of facial redness and under-eye puffiness. Genucel uses clinical levels of botanical extracts in their cruelty-free, natural, made-in-the-USA line of products. Get an extra discount with promo code DREW at https://genucel.com/drew • COZY EARTH - Trying to think of the right present for someone special? Susan and Drew love Cozy Earth's sheets & clothing made with super-soft viscose from bamboo! Use code DREW to save up to 40% at https://drdrew.com/cozy • THE WELLNESS COMPANY - Counteract harmful spike proteins with TWC's Signature Series Spike Support Formula containing nattokinase and selenium. Learn more about TWC's supplements at https://twc.health/drew 「 MEDICAL NOTE 」 The CDC states that COVID-19 vaccines are safe, effective, and reduce your risk of severe illness. You should always consult your personal physician before making any decisions about your health.  「 ABOUT THE SHOW 」 Ask Dr. Drew is produced by Kaleb Nation (https://kalebnation.com) and Susan Pinsky (https://twitter.com/firstladyoflove). This show is for entertainment and/or informational purposes only, and is not a substitute for medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. 「 ABOUT DR. DREW 」 Dr. Drew is a board-certified physician with over 35 years of national radio, NYT bestselling books, and countless TV shows bearing his name. He's known for Celebrity Rehab (VH1), Teen Mom OG (MTV), Dr. Drew After Dark (YMH), The Masked Singer (FOX), multiple hit podcasts, and the iconic Loveline radio show. Dr. Drew Pinsky received his undergraduate degree from Amherst College and his M.D. from the University of Southern California, School of Medicine. Read more at https://drdrew.com/about Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

And today Tom Renz joins us again. We are obviously not in our home studio. We're on the road. We'll be here again tomorrow and we'll be welcoming Nicole and Jemmy. She is a medical education specialist, a medical pathology tech and has always really interesting stuff going on. Also, we're bringing in Ed Dowd back on Wednesday when Dr. Kelly Victory joins us. So don't you do not want to miss that. Of course, we have Tom Renz. You guys know him. He's the attorney from Hawaii. Excuse me, from Ohio. Hawaii? Interesting. Tom is from Ohio and as he says, he has all the receipts. You can find out more by following him at Renz, R-E-N-Z-Law.com and he's on Twitter as Renz

Tom, R-E-N-Z Tom. He has been testifying. He's got a lot of concerns as it pertains to the EcoHealth Alliance. And we're going to talk a little bit about what the press calls White Long, which, frankly, you're going to see me striking back a little bit, though Susan is not on camera here today because we don't have our normal studio set up. I will be striking back on this one. Be right back after this.

Our laws as it pertains to substances, pornography, PTSD, love addiction, fentanyl and heroin. Ridiculous. I'm a doctor for f*** sake. Where the hell do you think I learned that? I'm just saying. You go to treatment before you kill people. I am a clinician. I observe things about these chemicals.

Let's just deal with what's real. We used to get these calls on Loveline all the time. Educate adolescents and to prevent and to treat. If you have trouble, you can't stop and you want to help stop it, I can help. I got a lot to say,

I got a lot more to say. I think everyone knows the next medical crisis could be just around the corner, whether it comes in the form of another pandemic or something much more routine, like a tick bite. You and your family need to be prepared. That's where the wellness company comes in. You know the wellness company. We have their physicians on, like Dr. McCullough, frequently. The wellness company and their doctors are medical professionals you can trust. And their new medical emergency kits are the gold standard when it comes to keeping you safe and

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very kindly helping us along so we can stream today to you and tomorrow uh and we will be joining with uh tom renz in just a second susan is off to my left here she is monitoring the restream and the rumble rants i am not today i don't have that capacity but i will be watching twitter spaces we might have some time for some calls later on uh what's the matter susan oh my. Lots of people pile in and they want to see what Tom's got to say which I'm delighted about. Let's see. I also, Caleb, watching the wellness ad there, I just reminded myself about something I sent you, Caleb. An article on ivermectin or the I word. Can we say the word now? It is from 2017 and some of the quotes from this article is in nature uh and in a and also let me double check the publication until i get this right to review

article journal of antibiotics uh the the citation is from nature but the exuberance uh with which uh in prior to COVID, ivermectin was being touted as something that was saving millions of love. Here, I'm just going to read you just something in the second page. Perhaps more than any drug, this drug is for the world's poor. For most of the century, some 250 million people have been taking it annually to combat two of the world's most devastating, disfiguring, debilitating, and stigma-inducing diseases, oncocerosis and lymphocytic filariasis. These are in Africa and Asia. These are very serious illnesses, and people take these medicines.

And this whole article goes on to talk about its other antiviral and antibacterial properties and anti-cancer properties, all those things. I don't want to get too crazed about all its properties, but the fact is billions of doses every year saved millions of poor people's lives and disfigurement. And this is a medication that our press just learned how to pronounce three years ago, and as they learned how to pronounce the word, they immediately had massive opinions about how this medication should and should not be used i think that's a good way to bring tom renz in because i feel similarly about

oh there it is uh i feel similarly about the way they're approaching the so-called white lung pneumonia which is makes me furious even when i say it tom renz as i said is an ohio he returned ohio lawyer he had turns returns to us with an update on the cover-up lawsuit involving EcoHealth Alliance. Tom, welcome back. I'm glad to be here, Doc. How are you doing? I'm good. Let's stop since I have a bit of a head of steam on this so-called white lung thing.

Let's talk about that first. As soon as I saw a headline that included the word white lung, I was like, oh my God, are you kidding me? Here we go again. Here's what causes a white lung. Pneumonia. Pneumonia causes a white lung on chest x-ray. That's how we know somebody has a pneumonia. Now, there are different characteristics of the white region. It can be low bar. It can be consolidated. It can be fluffy. It can be interstitial lots of things it's the white shadow that we look at on chest x-ray that tells us a lung is infected now uh um uh covid in particular caused a diffuse white whitening of the lung really a near whiteout so i'm in many cases

that had the cytokine storm and all the horrible complications and god knows how much of that was caused by the ventilators we We don't even know yet. But here we are. I'm imagining the journalists heard something about white lung during COVID. And aha, we can use it again. Is that what's going on here? Well, I'm not so sure whether it's a journalist or whether this is from a little bit higher up. Right.

I mean, we know that the journalists were paid millions and millions of dollars to spread propaganda to sell these vaccines from the Biden administration. Right. I mean, we know that the journalists were paid millions and millions of dollars to spread propaganda to sell these vaccines from the Biden administration. Right. And I'm not trying to get into the political side of this, but the Biden administration literally paid millions of dollars to Fox News, CNN, everybody else. Are you talking, Tom, about the advertising on those news that, you know, Pfizer and Moderna and, you know, they still run ads, right? Or are you talking about the CDC public service announcements, get your vaccine, get your vaccine? Actually, I'm talking about the FOIA documents that Blaze Media obtained. It's been several months ago now, and I don't have them in front of me. It's been a while since I've reviewed them. But basically, those Freedom of Information Act documents showed that the Biden administration paid an immense amount of money to promote vaccines in these various news networks. Now, what does that mean? I don't have all the details. But what I know is that we as a nation

spent an immense amount of money. So in addition to the Biden administration paying directly out of the taxpayer coffer, We also know that we had the funding that was coming from the big pharma ads and everything else. So certainly there's some issues. But I think that a lot of this is being coordinated from a little bit higher up. I testified at Marjorie Taylor Greene's hearing that a lot of this has been, I mean, to the best of our ability, it looks like this came straight from the CIA DOD, which sounds kind of conspiracy theory, except for the fact that, well, it's not. You know, we've got a lot of evidence on this,

and we keep finding more evidence every day. So, you know, when I look at this, I love it. Let me stop you. Tom, let me stop you. But we're going quickly in another direction, but I just want to say so i don't forget frankly which is that is the one thing early in the pandemic i kept thinking to myself which was what is going why what's wrong with everybody the only thing i could figure is that they're covering up maybe literally for our own good i i don't like this you can't handle the truth bs but

but maybe there is some giant international something going on here that the various defense departments are collaborating on these horrible things, and they really don't want us to know about it. That's the only thing that made sense for some of the nonsense I was hearing out of people's mouths. Well, yeah. And again, I'm eager to get there, and I think we can go into that for sure. But I do want to, you know, you mentioned white lung. And, you know, one of the things that's really interesting about that, before we get into, you know, the bad guys that caused this whole nightmare and who's manipulating and who's doing this and who's doing that, is, you know, this white lung, I put out a substack just today. And in it, I took some screenshots, CDC, right? So, you know, listen, I'm a lawyer.

I'm not a scientist. I leave that to you. But I can read, right? So, one of the skills that you have to have as an attorney is you have to be able to read. I hope so. I trust. Yeah. So, what I do and what part of my job is if you're an attorney and you're going to litigate on things like COVID, I have to take the stuff that guys like you know and translate it to something that a jury pool member who's got a ninth grade education can understand, or even worse, a judge, right? So I've got to break this down to a real basic level. So this is what I did, right? White lung disease. What's that?

Well, like you said, every doctor I talked to, white lung, well, that's what your lungs look like when you got pneumonia, right? White lung disease. What's that? Well, like you said, every doctor I talked to, white lung, well, that's what your lungs look like when you got pneumonia, right? Okay, so what's pneumonia? Well, pneumonia is a disease, right? It's caused by a virus or bacteria or fungus or all these sorts of things, but it's basically a disease that's manifested from an infection in lungs, okay? Well, so I've got a CDC screenshot that says causes of pneumonia, and they mentioned flu virus, RSV, SARS-CoV-2. And one of the things that I hope we'll get a chance to touch on that I didn't really focus on when we were talking earlier, but is on that same page, and I think Caleb's got the graphic on this, but under causes pneumonia on the CDC website, one of the causes of pneumonia is actually listed as ventilator associated pneumonia, which you were alluding to.

But that's a little different. Which page is that, Tom, on your slides? That's the one that says CDC pneumonia, causes of pneumonia. I believe, I'm not sure. That should have been from a sub stack. I want to, this is why you have to get expert witness on the stand sometimes to refine some of these points. So I'm going to play that role today, okay? Please. okay so what the so so what i was referring to was lung changes and scarring caused by

barotrauma which is not pneumonia it is not pneumonia per se the pneumonia of covid was one thing but there was also the alveolar filling caused by the cytokine storm which was another thing so there were three different reasons for whiteness of the lungs with covid the fourth and that's one you're talking about that's on the cdc website is when you put an endotracheal tube into somebody's lung it drags mouth bacteria with it and you very frequently get significant pneumonias just from being intubated. And by the way, having now a conduit between the outside world and your lungs with nothing to prevent something from getting in, it's another way that pneumonia gets in. So ventilator-acquired pneumonias is slightly different than what I was talking about,

which was iatrogenic damage from ventilators. Different. Okay. So, and super, super important what you're saying there. One of the things that I would ask you to correct me if I'm wrong on, Doc, because you're right. What I would do is I would call in the experts and I would do just what we're doing here. I talked to you about this. So as I go down, one of the causes of the atypical pneumonias listed on the CDC, again, is mycoplasma pneumonia. It's one of the more common ones, very common. The other one is chlamydia causes a pneumonia, not the chlamydia that causes vaginal infections. It's a chlamydia causes a pneumonia, not the chlamydia that causes vaginal infections. It's a chlamydia,

similar organism, different subspecies, and then viruses. So atypical pneumonia really means virus, chlamydia, mycoplasma, which mycoplasma being the one we actually treat. When somebody comes in with a community-acquired ammonia,

we put them on a macrolide, azromycin now there are some resistance patterns coming up now where people have to switch over to quinolone and that works perfectly well so people are sometimes being putting people directly on a quinolone but these are extremely treatable pneumonias extremely absolutely well absolutely unless unless you put someone on a ventilator and sedate them, which according to, I've also got in front of me, the 2003 version of the guidelines for preventing healthcare-associated pneumonia, which is a CDC document. It's actually a CDC working group where they made the recommendations for this. But I bring this up and I'm overlapping a couple issues here and I'm aware of that. But this mycoplasmal

pneumonia and a bunch of these other pneumonias are listed as side effects of the jabs or at least adverse events that were observed from the jabs. Now, because we don't have the data and because, you know, the specifics of how common these't, right? And since I can show you, for example, we mentioned in the past, Project Salus, you know, I mentioned that here. Anthony Fauci was out talking about how a majority of the people in the hospital are unvaxxed and everybody is dying. And at the same time, I've got the Project Salus document that he had that showed that, you know, 60% of new hospitalizations at the time were in fully vaxxed and 71% new cases were in fully vaxxed. These guys lied over and over again. So when do you trust a liar? So I don't really trust their data. And until they show me the raw data, I don't trust it at all.

And so what I'm doing is a technique that we lawyers call burden shifting, right? So I'm laying out and I'm showing, using the CDC documents, that this mycoplasma, pneumonia, and all these other things are potentially a post-authorization adverse event, a side effect of the COVID vaccines. Now, walking pneumonia is common. Let me push back a couple things. One is, if this indeed is the same thing in China, they don't have the mRNA vaccine there.

So how do we explain that, number one? And then number two, it's interesting. I was thinking about, I just completed a board review on pulmonary medicine, and they did a whole lot on community-acquired pneumonia. It's not because of this, just because these board reviews were put together years ago. And they were, you know, give them the azithromycin, do not hospitalize. Do not hospitalize. These people do not go to the hospital.

So why are we even talking about hospitals? What's going to happen to the hospitals? Not hospitalized. However, we are talking about hospitals? What's going to happen to the hospitals? Not hospitalized. However, we are talking about pediatrics. And this has really been one of the problems in the pandemic, which was we have pediatricians talking about adult medicine. And now here I am, an adult medicine doctor talking about pediatrics. I don't know if they hospitalize atypical pneumonia with kids. I know we do not do it with adults, but that's one of the problems that's been going on. A lot of the public health directors at the state level are pediatricians making decisions about adult medicine.

It was a mess, and I don't want to be a part of that mess, so I'm bringing that up. But go ahead. You were saying walking demonias. Well, let's tear apart what you just said, Doc, because I think you're dead right. So first of all, let's talk about China. I don't know what's happening over there. And if you trust the data out of China, well, you're a better man than I am. You're a much more trusting man than I am. I don't trust anything coming out of it. Is there an increase in walking pneumonia? What

did they actually have in their shots in China? I have no idea. All I know is that if China's saying that, I don't trust it. What I do know is that there was talk about a big pneumonia outbreak in Ohio. There you go. Actually, thank you. That's perfect. And we see other places where they're saying it's popping up in the U.S., they're worried about it in the U.S. Now, there's two different things happening. We have walking pneumonia, which apparently accounts for about 10 to 13% of pneumonia cases on a normal year. And so, that's there. Now, if you want to gin up fear, you don't call it walking pneumonia. You rename it white lung disease. And you tie this all in.

Here's what that headline means to me. By the way, in that 10 to 13%, most pneumonias are in very elderly patients. If you took that population out of your pneumonia data, I guarantee you it'd be 40 to 60 percent, somewhere in that zone. And again, I don't know the pediatric data. I assume it's the same or maybe more so even. And when I saw that headline, I thought, oh, we're having our usual outbreak. We always have seasonal outbreaks. Why is that news? Why are people reporting on a regional seasonal outbreak that we always have? Why is that news? Why are people reporting on a regional seasonal outbreak that we always have? Why is that being reported?

What is going on here? I think I just, having been in the press for so long, I just smell that. I smell that rat. Oh, we're going to get there. Oh, oh. They breathlessly run to their cameras. Oh, white lung. White lung.

Come watch my camera. Watch my show. Watch my show. That's what they do. That's what they do. And they should be be punished for that they should be smacked down for being that way they should it's it's it's destructive for the american people and whomever they're serving well i would tell you i don't want to get distracted on this because i want to go to the pta thing because i've got a response on that but but i will tell you run a google search go to

google scholar not google go to google scholar and run a Google search. Go to Google Scholar, not Google. Go to Google Scholar and run a search on fear and public health. You'll find thousands or millions of articles. This is a very well-researched technique that's used to manipulate the public, and it's controversial because it's not ethical. But, I mean, it's well-established. And, you know, our last show we did together, Doc, we went through that CDC document where they lay out using fear to manipulate the public. It's something that they do. I thought that was a new thing.

Well, to be fair, I did it myself during the AIDS epidemic. I was participant in that. And we congratulated ourselves at the end of that for having used fear to, you know, if you have sex with one person, you're having sex with everybody they ever had sex with. Remember that whole thing? Oh, yeah. I do. We chanted that, man. I was a part of it. And we thought we were doing what was right. We thought we were going to prevent this from breaking into the public. And by the way, I told you this last time, Tom, we learned during the course of that pandemic that that's not how you change behavior. A whole discipline developed on how to change behavior. And it was,

you create cases. You have people who are like somebody you want to reach, tell their story. If somebody like me explained the story, music, humor, that changes their behavior. That reaches them. Me in a white coat in a box, zero impact on behavior. Yeah. Well, absolutely. And that's another probably three shows that we could do on that.

That's true. But I'll tell you, let's talk about the pediatric aspect of this, right? Yes, please. I mean, you've seen the stuff, and I've yet to have any person show me pre-vaccine one healthy child that died from COVID. They didn't, right? So if we have an uptick in pneumonia right now in kids, what could be causing that, right? Now, kids weren't really injured by COVID,

but if you put a gene therapy drug in their arm, and these are, you don't even have to put a disclaimer on this because I have Pfizer and Moderna's SEC documents. They acknowledge that these are gene therapy drugs. So if you put a gene therapy drug in some kid's arm and that kid's body starts producing spike proteins on a longer term basis, we don't know how long because there's no actual accurate data on that. But we know that you're going to produce that spike. We know that that spike is going to run all over your body. And we know that the spike is the pathogen or a pathogen as far as COVID goes, right? I mean, unless you disagree.

It's a, well, calling it a pathogen is a little bit challenging. But it is the structure that seems to be associated with so much of the consequences biologically of the virus. And it really, you know, again, another thing I always ask myself is why did we, was it just so easy to get that spike protein? We had to go for it. Why did we choose that as the thing we wanted to use for our immune response? We had the nuclear capsid protein, which seems harmless.

Why didn't we go for the nuclear capsid? Well, we'll get to that when I talk about the MTG hearing, because I've got an answer for that, too. But let me ask you. Really? Okay, okay. Go ahead and ask me. I do. Yes, you want to ask me.

I do. Okay. So, let me ask you this. If the only difference between pre-COVID and now is the kids getting the vaccine, you see an uptick in pneumonia now, what's the most likely cause? Now, I understand that this is a correlation, not causation argument. Yeah, and Tom, I would say two other things. I really try to get to the truth, so I don't want us to run down a path.

So, yes, it could be, and I would argue that the FDA and the drug companies have an obligation to prove that it's not that. They have an obligation to prove it is not. I would, if I were the drug company, that would be my priority, number one. Number two, it could be the result of lockdowns, which is one of the theories about China, that they've not had the normal exposure to pathogens

that would give them better immune response to these common outbreaks. And so the outbreaks become more widespread. Or number three, it's just what we always get in the winter, you know, fall and winter, and the press is making it seem like it's something different. Yeah. Well, and that's the real question, right? So the first thing we have to ask ourselves is, has there been an increase in the baseline

number of cases of pneumonia in children? Because walking pneumonia is walking. I mean, hell, I remember having walking pneumonia as a kid. It happened, right? It's not a big deal. You just sucked it up and recovered. But is there an increase? And if there is, then what's causing it? Now, I would argue, and certainly I've seen the stuff out there about the whole lockdowns and impact, but we're a couple years out from the lockdowns. And what was the increase the year after the lockdowns versus now, right? Right. So, this is, to me, something that the most likely culprit is the vaccine.

Now, here's the beauty of being a lawyer rather than a doctor. You guys have to back everything you say up with A, B, C, D science. I can make a very logical argument that says, okay, if it was the lockdowns, why wasn't there a higher uptick the day after the lockdowns ended? And why is it that now several years out when more kids are vaccinated, we're seeing this? Now, certainly, again, a correlation versus causation argument, but it's a common sense argument, right? And if I'm wrong, what I've done is I've shifted the burden. I've provided an argument. I've provided some evidence, some good things.

Okay, Pfizer, disprove me. Show that I'm wrong. Show the error. It's on you, not me at this point. No, right. I agree. I think it needs to be, I would think it's an ethical obligation to do so, but hopefully people will. By the way, I want to bring another expert witness into your courtroom,

Tom. Siobhan, I see you sitting there. He's another, he's actually an infectious disease doctor, if I remember correctly. I've been inviting you to speak. If you raise your hand, I will bring you up as well if you're listening to this conversation, because I'd be curious if he has anything to add to this. He has been somewhat on fire lately on Twitter. Steve says I'm on fire, but Shabria, C-H-A-B-R-I-A is on Twitter. You can follow him at Shabria, S-H-I-V-E-N. And I'm inviting him to speak, but Caleb, I don't know if that isn't getting through the way our system is set up, or can you invite him to speak from your side?

Yeah, I'm going to try to bring him up right now. Oh, here he is. He's coming up. He's moving closer. There he goes. Yeah, okay. There you are. So unmute yourself,

and I'm wondering if you have any thoughts on this conversation. There you are. You, sir, have been on fire lately on Twitter. Yeah, I got you. And I've been watching you on fire lately on Twitter conversation there you are you sir have been on fire lately on yeah i got you and i've been uh watching you on fire lately on twitter and i saw you there and i thought wow you might be an interesting contributor to this conversation sure i you know i you have to forgive me because i i've been uh doing some housecleaning so i've been in and out of there

listening to the conversation but um but yeah i i was listening to tom and i was listening to the conversation. But yeah, I was listening to Tom and I was listening to what you said. And a couple of points that I'd like to make. There's also the concept of immune death. So... We did kind of bring that up. We did bring that up, that the lockdowns perhaps cause something like that.

Right, right. Absolutely. And the whole mycoplasma thing, you know, the more I think about it, the more I'm convinced that, you know,

some of this is just what China does and some of this is what our press does, which is, you know, let's conflate, confabulate,

and confuse, create controversy and rip off frenzy to get people to get back into fear and panic, you know. And I said yesterday, which is, you know, if this is such a big deal, why don't our public health officials request actual specimens and samples so that our people can run the tests and figure out what the hell this is instead of just doing the same conjectures that that led to nothing but fear and panic four years ago why are we why are we replaying this story all over again you know by the way by the way uh dr victory was on newsmax yesterday morning yeah yeah. Yeah. With Deborah Birx.

And man, did she sing a different tune. I was shocked. Her tune was, we have great treatments for COVID. You shouldn't be worried about COVID. And by the way, RSV, influenza, mycoplasma, that's around too. Also quite treatable.

Suddenly they're talking about treatment. I'm going to predict you're going to see the vaccine push back off and treatment. And by the way, their push on treatment now is coming on the heels of Paxlovid increasing its price from free to $1,300 per course. This is like, I can't even believe what I'm hearing. But I don't know if you have any comment about that. Yeah, I mean, I think the thing about Paxilvator, clinically speaking, and I don't know how much you use it, but clinically speaking, the indications for its use

have been vastly overblown, right? I mean, the data that Paxillovid does much to individuals who have prior immunity doesn't exist. That's number one. Number two, there's some data showing that Paxlovid might actually increase the risk for recrudescence, re-emergence, relapse, whatever the hell you want to call it.

So let me address that, because I've actually used a lot of Paxlovid. Most of my patients are elderly, so I've had the chance to treat it. And it somewhat depends on the variant. I've got to tell you, a year and a half ago, we had a variant that was crazy responsive to PaxLimit. Like in six hours. It wasn't a year and a half ago.

It was early in the spring, like six months ago. The PaxLimit, people were better in six hours. It was unbelievable. Now, I'm not seeing so much, but I'm not seeing any COVID that needs treatment, by the way. Everyone's got a cold, number one. And then in terms of this recrudescence thing, I saw a ton of the rebound. My own daughter had rebound. I saw it two years ago.

I've not seen it so much now. And I'll be damned if the people were pushing back on that saying, oh no, it's just the cytokine activation two weeks after COVID. You should be ashamed of yourself for really questioning clinicians and what they were seeing. And it's mostly the bench research people that were saying that they should be ashamed.

They should apologize. We saw rebound for sure. And now you're referring to, I think, this good JAMA article that was in an England Journal article. But there was a good article that that showed definitely there's rebound. Definitely. Yeah. I mean, you know, it's my prediction, Drew, that the eventual narrative is going to shift to say five days is not sufficient so you should do 10 because of whatever and i'm like that's that that um that goes against the face of basic immunology where uh immune control of a virus is always in almost every single situation is vastly more important than any antiviral you give so at five days uh if you have immune control, your game over.

And if you have, then no drug is particularly necessary. And the second point I'll make is that the RSV vaccine is on track for GSK to do a billion dollars. So I think some of what you're hearing is sort of the pre-narrative

being sculpted to say, you know, RSV is a big deal. And so, you know, let's shift the narrative to RSV. And I got to tell you, this is again that distinction, and this is Tom for you again, between pediatrics and adult medicine. Okay. I am a fan of the RSV vaccine for the elderly. I believe we are doing something for people for whom pneumonia is like threatening.

Very elderly. I've been using it like crazy. I think to good effect. I've seen no side effect. That doesn't mean children, all children should be getting that vaccine. This risk, our risk reward sort of diathesis has just vanished. And I worry that... Go ahead.

Didn't they just approve it for children, I think just a few weeks ago or maybe a month ago? So I was like, really, what is the burden of clinically significant life-threatening RSC in children? Yeah, there you go. Maybe newborn, yes, but by the time you're two, three, four, again, it's another one of those infections that in the era before we had PCR

diagnostics, we wouldn't even think of it. We wouldn't know about it. We wouldn't even know about it. I want to interject while I got two real smart guys on the line here, because I'm a lawyer, so I'm not all that bright. So, like that, if we can't be self-deprecating,

what do we got, right? How to disarm your, on the witness stand, how to disarm your client. I'm okay at what I do. Anyway, so let me ask you this, right? So as we go through and we see the number of times that

the pharmaceuticals and FDA have lied to us, they've lied to us about the risk benefits of remdesivir. They lied to us about the risk benefits of COVID. They pushed hospital protocols that they knew were unsafe and that were going to result in higher deaths. We see, and if we get to the hard science, right, we can go through and we can look at the authorization documents that Naomi Wolf and everybody have pulled out from Pfizer and this and that and other, and you can find numerous issues with all the studies. So I would ask you guys this, right? So we've got these new fancy drugs and vaccines that they've got coming out. Sure, you haven't

seen any long-term effects yet. How do you know? When do you trust a liar? How do we know what the long-term, short-term impacts? How do we know when everything they've said is a lie? When do we trust a liar? And we have so many instances of our government colluding with the big pharma and allowing situations where things are moving forward, and they're just pushing outright untruths. Not a little bit off, not a gray area, not a variation of the truth, but just outright straight-up lies.

And, Siobhan, I'm going to put you back in the pool here. Apologies, because I have to go to break in just a second. But I would say, Tom, not only that, but we have systems that are broken. If you look at my interview, I think as we were rolling in today, we showed a clip from Jessica Rose and Joseph Freiman. that is supposed to sort of mitigate that, what you're describing, is more broken than the cozy relationships amongst these regulators and the pharmaceutical companies. So the very thing that is supposed to mitigate and protect is also broken. So even if you don't, and by the way, I have a bias, Tom.

I don't like attacking pharma. They do a lot of good. I've been involved with them my whole life and always been upset when they got attacked. The recent situation, the recent history has made me open to things I really didn't think were possible. So I'm open to everything.

I just, I just, I'm also open to other things. This is my point. I'm open to the fact that- For the record, Doc? Yeah, yeah. For the record? Yeah. Prior to COVID to covid i was 100 vaxxed i was right up to date and i actually my wife brings up very frequently to this day conversation she had with me in the mid-20 teens where she's like hey this someone someone from hollywood was talking about uh vaccines causing autism and i said oh that's

the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Do you really think a whole industry could be corrupt? I can only follow the evidence that I've seen put forth in front of me for the last three years. And it may be hard to believe, but it is what it is. And my problem always comes back to once you've demonstrated that you're a liar, once you've demonstrated that you would use a vaccine that has zero benefits on a baby, even though it might kill that baby, once you've demonstrated that you would do that

for profit, when can I trust you on anything? So we're going to stop here for a minute and take a little break. I want to just say also, this know, it's, I'm, it, this is so strange that the circumstance that we live in these days, I, you know, I'm been good friends with Rob Schneider and Jenny McCarthy for many years, and I assiduously avoided this topic with both of them to maintain my friendship. Now I want them to give me some reading material. I'm like open to everything all of a sudden. And it's like, so, you know, it's, it's, you know't, again, I still don't want to, I do, you know, believe pharmaceutical companies do so much good and they also are, there's something going very wrong

and we have to kind of get this right so we don't throw the baby out with the bathwater is what I'm concerned about, obviously. Agreed. So, here we go. Tom Renz with us. We obviously are watching you on, Susan is watching on Restream and Rumble Rants.

You have something to say, Susan? She wants to talk to you guys. They're all listening. Big crowd. Okay, all right. And did you want to say something about who's hosting us here today? Okay.

Thank you to VShred for letting us use your services here. So, all right. So we'll take a little break. We will continue on the Twitter spaces and back with Tom Renz right after this. If you're trying to figure out the right present for someone,

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but don't take my word for it. You will look and feel your absolute best or your money back, no questions asked. So, for results in 12 hours or less, GenuCell's immediate effects is included for free. Plus, if you go to GenuCell.com slash Drew now, you'll get a free upgrade to priority shipping. That is Genucel.com slash Drew, G-E-N-U-C-E-L.com slash Drew. And we are here with Tom Renz. It's a somewhat interesting conversation today. You can follow Tom on Twitter at RenzTom, R-E-N-Z-T-O-M, obviously. And his website is Renz, R-E-N-Z-Law.com. All right, so Tom, I've managed to divert you from the material for which you have come to talk to us, I believe. Some of this, this is all the same zone, obviously, of stuff.

But you had some very specific material about EcoHealth Alliance and whatnot that you were beginning to zero in on, correct? Well, you know, you're right, Doc. This is all the same stuff, and it all ties together. And, you know, some of the stuff that I'd sent you guys, because we can go anywhere. I live this 24-7, so all of these things are critical for people to hear and understand. You know, understanding white lung disease as being, you know, just an evolutionary step. Look at how well the cure for your narrative worked with COVID.

Why not do it again to promote RSV, to promote flu shots? And by the way, let's talk about the mRNA being integrated into the flu shots and all these other things, right? So that, you know, you get your flu shot and are you getting your COVID shot too?

Even if you don't want it. And by the way, and by the way, I saw ads for that and I have seen some reports, some good, good published peer-reviewed reports of significant adverse events from the combo of the high dose flu shot and COVID vaccine. I think it was stroke, if I remember right, that they were seeing. And I was like, why are you pushing this? It's one thing to push them both. I get it. But now you're pushing them in that combo shot where there's bin document. What are we doing? Well, I mean, listen, this is really relevant and we can go wherever you want to go on this, but I think this is critical. You've got to understand these mRNA shots. First of all, I don't know if you saw this a few weeks back. I broke on Twitter.

I found a screenshot from Pfizer recognizing what I would consider to be nothing short of the biggest fraud in human history. Right. So Pfizer actually acknowledged that the mRNA shots are not messenger RNA. They're actually mod RNA. And, you know, that tied in with, yeah, I I just did the little booklet and it's a tiny little thing. It's like a 20 page or like a 70 page, 20 minute read that you can do that's mod RNA, why it matters and other essays is a 404 series book. I just did a little book on this because what we found is that none of these vaccines were actually messenger RNA. Messenger RNA, and I'm not telling you anything you don't know, Doc, but messenger RNA is naturally

occurring. It's just, it's used in your cells to, you know, carry messages, essentially. Well, that's fine and dandy. And had we used messenger RNA vaccines, very, it's a weak particle. So messenger RNA, basically, if you want to turn messenger RNA into something that's going to be part of a vaccine, it's going to fall apart before you can do anything with it. So what they did was they've been tinkering with it for 20, 30, 40 years in labs to make it more robust, more durable, and all these different things, right? So now you've got this kind of Frankenstein messenger RNA that is no longer, I mean, you know, they're wrapping it in different adjuvants, they're putting it in viral vectors, they're putting all sorts of different things to make sure that this is done differently. And so now we have no idea how long this lasts in your body. We have no idea what it does.

This is why they're finding it going all over the body. Between the adjuvants used, it's all over. And we don't know if it ever goes away or what it does. They lied about everything. And Pfizer literally admitted, I posted the screenshots on Twitter, that it's not messenger RNA, it's mod RNA. And for anybody that knows, when you say mRNA to a scientist, they assume messenger RNA. It was intentionally misleading. It was, to me, just inarguably fraud. So you've got these mod RNAs that we have no idea what they do. And since they lied about that, how can I trust any of the data related to it?

Well, and also there was the whole issue of the plasmids they were using and how much contamination from that. That seemed to be manipulated a bit and the kind of plasmid change from what they originally got the emergency use authorization for. But before I forget, I want to ask what the nucleocapsid problem was when you testified at the Marjorie Taylor Greene hearing. I remember I said, why did we go after the spike? Why not the nucleocapsid? I assume there's a reason, but I don't know. But what did you find out?

It's one of my magic tricks when my wife's not talking to me is I'm usually focused on the conversation. And I do recall you saying that. My wife's going to throw something at me when she hears that one. But it's par for my life, right? So yeah, why didn't they do that, right? Why wouldn't you make the thing that your body is going to produce to elicit an immune reaction something that's completely harmless and innocuous? Right, right. Rather than something that's… That we knew was a major part of the pathogenesis of the viral infection. Yeah, yeah.

Well, why indeed, right? So, I talked about this at the MTG hearing, and I didn't talk about it in these terms, but it certainly relates. Well, going back to the mid-20-teens, there was a patent filed by Moderna, which was an exact reverse match for the spike protein, for the genetic sequences. One of the genetics, I believe, in the spike for COVID. Well, someone did a study on this. Hold on. For coronavirus, right? Not COVID-19, but a coronavirus.

No, COVID-19, I believe. Okay. I believe. Because there was a lot of stuff flying around China and the United States about the spike protein. There's a lot known. There is. Well, there was a study done on this. Yeah.

There was a study done on this. And they ran a study to see what the odds were of that being a coincidence. And it was like one in a billion. Now, I actually cite that study in one of my lawsuits because, again, so this points to this vaccine actually being in place a long time ago. And I testified to this, right? Because if you look at bioweapons development as a field, right? Bioweapons development and gain-of-function research are two names for the same thing right really the only distinguishing characteristic is the intent behind it if you're doing bioweapons development you're developing something to

kill someone if you're doing uh gain-of-function work you're developing something that could kill someone but under the guise that you're going to try and save them with it. Same thing. Well, with a vaccine. You're going to make a vaccine for some of the awful things. Yeah. That's the conceit. Yeah. And you can see easily how that could be adulterated, how easily it could slip. What bureaucracy wouldn't slip? You know what I mean? Why is that surprising to people? Snake oil salesman, right? You know, I mean, you create the disease, you create the cure. Well, so I presented something at the hearing that's pretty phenomenal. And if Caleb's got, so I've got these redacted documents that I sent you guys today. And I presented these at the hearing.

I saw that. Which ones do you want? The ones that start with a huge dot? Start out with the one that looks like a table of contents. I mean, it's mostly black. All the other five are pretty similar. There's about six. There it is.

That one? Tom? Uh-oh. At the very top, this says uh it says modern uh-oh we're careful with this because i have to protect this whistleblower big like i i had to do this i actually had to put my name on a on a declaration under penalty of perjury so i put myself at risk by doing this because I have to protect this person, right? So this whistleblower, you know, they've got this information, they've got this data.

And what it is, is I can verify through chain of custody that these records that I received were obtained properly. And, you know, I've got a declaration from the whistleblower under penalty of perjury that these were properly obtained medical records from the military. Okay, so this individual in the year 2014, according to these medical records, had five different instances where he received a Moderna COVID-19 vaccination. To me, that sounds ridiculous,

but there it is. Why was it there? I didn't put it there. And how could there be five of them from the year 2014? Five different instances. Each instant had a separate medical record filled out separately, sometimes by different people. And in each one of those, they got a COVID-19 vaccination. This is the year 2014. Now, how could you in 2014 even mistakenly write Moderna COVID-19 vaccination? It didn't. So this presents a lot of questions. And I'm not going to tell you guys

that this proves that there was a COVID vaccine in 2014. But let me ask you a few questions related to this. Let me kind of take you through my logic. So I get this. I can verify and I actually put myself under penalty of perjury where I said, you know, I've done the steps necessary to do the due diligence I believe proper to demonstrate that this is true and accurate. So I can verify this to the best of my ability. I've got this document that says, you know, this guy got all the, I got six different documents pointing to a COVID vaccine. I've got the fact that if you believe the official narrative, Trump said, hey, we're going to create a new vaccine for this. And three days later, someone said, hey, we got one. That isn't how it normally works. You've got all sorts of government documents showing that PPE stuff was being sold during 2019.

You've got all of the different things, the tabletop exercises, all these different event, 201, all these different things, where it looks like people were planting or planning for a disease. At some point, and Doc, I told you, before all this started, I'm a mainstream guy. I never, much like you, I actually, you know, you had to resonate with me because I hear myself, right? Five years ago, you asked me about this. I'm saying, this Renz guy, he's nuts. It's a conspiracy theory. But now, I keep looking and everywhere I look, I've got another document

pointing to the same thing, that this was planned, that this was organized, and that this was orchestrated, that our defense department and our CIA were involved. One of the things that I can't share the paper trail on is one of the names associated that's redacted with those documents, one of the guys that supposedly gave the injection related to those documents. And the reason I can't share details on this is because I can't verify. I had some people in the military tell me that they verified this because they're people I trust. And they claim that this guy actually worked at a bioweapons development lab. He wasn't even a doctor who was given this injection.

Maybe that's true. So let's stop there. Let's stop there. So to me, I could make a non-sinister narrative out of that and say, I know that people are working on coronaviruses in China and the United States and Ukraine. Sure. And there were lots. And they were very focused on that spike protein and its structure.

And it makes sense to me that they might've been messing with vaccines that just, you know, they didn't expect maybe to use even, but maybe they had to use it on people potentially in the bioweapons or the biolabs. Even though they knew the spike protein was a little more problematic,

they didn't develop that particular vaccine for mass distribution. Let's say it's not even COVID-19. They it covet 19 you know i mean it might have been kind of a different agent and a different vaccine and then all of a sudden we have an emergency and trump goes pull out all the stops figured a way to and and they just kept it they just evolved it all the way to the present vaccine right that's that's not a to me that's not very sinister that the sinister part is that we're doing bioweapons and gain-of-function work, and we need to have vaccines and things. That's the sinister part, but I don't need to have a sinister explanation for why that happened. It's interesting,

that's for sure. But what do you say? Well, the important part of it is this. First of all, if that's the case, why lie about it? Why not just own it? But I totally agree with you. And that's what's interesting in this whole story. When there's things that I don't understand, I always think to myself, I wonder if they're hiding something because they need to, so to speak, not just because they don't think we can handle the truth, but if they release the truth, I don't know what. I'm not a CIA, I'm not a defense department person. It could have adverse impacts on people they're trying to save people from. I don't know what. I'm not a CIA. I'm not a Defense Department person. It could have adverse impacts on people they're trying to save people from. I don't know. But that, to me, seems like a viable kind of explanation.

And you know what? One of the things that I'm very careful to do is to say, you know, I can't prove anything. I can't prove the motive. You know, a lot of people, I'll tell you, you know, I go on a lot of interviews and everybody wants me to go down. This was a plot to depopulate the world. I can't prove that. I can't. I just, does it look like a duck and quack like a duck?

Maybe. But can I prove that? No, I can't. But here's the deal. The evidence keeps stacking up. The fact that they were doing, they did an awful bad job of it. It wasn't, they didn't do a very good job. I think they could eat much more easily

and do that properly if that's what they wanted. But go ahead. Well, there are certainly some other mechanisms that they could use on that. But, you know, at the end of the day,

here's the thing. The evidence of wrongdoing, of cover-up, of lies is so monumental at this point. Yeah.

The only way that we can recover and, you know and at the end of the day, we've got to get to brass tacks here. How do we regain trust with our healthcare system? You're right. Sunshine, fresh air, sunshine, truth. Pharmaceuticals are a necessary thing in this world. What would we do without antibiotics? But how can I trust these people? And the only way to do this is to release everything, to get all the data out there, to quit lying, to quit covering up. And until that point, now, I got to be honest, I've gotten a little more cynical than you are at this point. Why? What happened?

What put you over the edge? Because you were with me five minutes ago. Now, what made you more cynical well i am with you in in in general but i've become more cynical in terms of being unwilling to ascribe guilt and the reason for that is doc it's really simple um i've been on the other end of the hey renz you know we would love to offer you a million-dollar-a-year position. You'd have to drop this work that you're doing, but you'd do great in this, and you could work five days a week and not 90 hours a day, and you wouldn't get hit pieces. I've been on the other end of, hey, Renz, you know, we've got what the FBI has determined to be credible death threats for what we're putting out there.

What can you do to keep us safe as a lawyer? I've been on the, I have clients that I've signed for that purpose. Okay. I've been on the other end of, you know, from during 2021, especially when we had so many people being murdered in hospitals. And I was one of the only attorneys fighting this um i'll tell you this is one of the hardest stories and i i get a little bit like i'm in touch with my toxic masculinity for sure but i this one's a hard one for me to tell um there was a mom in indiana and this story is no different than a thousand other stories but this one stuck out right mom in indiana so excited to talk to me because her son's almost

dead been in and the hospital's done there's nothing they can do, dying of COVID, on the vent, all these things, right? And she gets a hold of me and she's crying. This is a story that's happened so many times, right? She's in tears. Oh, Mr. Renz, you're the only attorney doing anything on this and everybody else thinks I'm nuts, but I know I'm not nuts. I just need to get him out of the hospital and they won't let me see him. They won't let him out of the hospital. They won't let me try ivermectin. And they said he's going to die. So why won't they let me? What can we do?

And I've been trying to get a hold of you for two weeks. And I haven't been able to because your phone never stops ringing. It's always busy. And, you know, I'm just so grateful. And so mom's super happy because her grown son, who's in his 20s, might, yous, she thinks I'm going to be some sort of a savior. She thinks I'm going to be able to save her baby, get him out there, get him some ivermectin, save his life. And at that point in my work, I was doing this 24-7. And I'll tell you, I don't even have a record of a lot of the people that I tried to help because what I knew is between 14 and 60

10 to 16 days out from going in the hospital you were dead almost invariably yeah and uh particularly yeah there wasn't time for me to file a lawsuit for everybody. The only thing I could do, and I was getting maybe 10%, 15% at most success rate, is if I caught them early enough, call the hospital, you know, threaten them this, that, and other legally, you know, hey, I'm putting you on notice, this, that, and other, and maybe I could get them to release. 10% to 15% max, right? And then hopefully you survive anyways. So, I had more of these. It's 24-7, Doc. And I mean, this was brutal. I wasn't sleeping ever. I don't sleep ever anyways, but I mean, it was really bad then. And because every time I closed my eyes, all I could think of is my kids. And wouldn't I want, if there wasn't anybody else fighting,

wouldn't I want someone to do whatever they could for my kids? And so I kept yelling, kept fighting and kept doing whatever I could. I have no idea, no patient records. I didn't charge anybody because I don't even know who it was. I mean, just there was nothing.

I knew I wasn't going to file a suit. There was no way. This mom from Indiana, though, she's crying because she's so happy she got ahold of me. Okay, mom, how long has your boy been in the hospital? It's however many days. What's his creatinine levels? How is his kidneys? They are what they are. Was he on the vent? Yeah. Where's that at and where's it been what's his oxygen levels okay um meanwhile during this conversation she sent texted me a picture of her boy which i still have and obviously it's something protected i couldn't share um and it's just one of many pictures i got you know someone sitting there

with all the tubes and dying and uh you know i had to i had to tell that mom so you know ma'am I'm going to tell you that your son there's nothing I can do for him where he's at now so I'm not a doctor but I know enough you know hearing this over and over again if we get him out he'll die

so the only thing I can do is pray with you and if we get him out he'll die so the only thing i can do is pray with you and uh naturally she broke down again and she thanked me for caring and for doing what i could and a few days later she sent me says thank you for the prayers he's gone that happened if it happened once it was too many times, but it happened more times than I can count. And in hindsight, with the casework that I've done and the experts I've worked with, guys like you, guys like McCullough, guys who know way more than I'll ever know, there's no question

that they knew what these protocols were doing. There's no question that they knew that there were things could be done for early treatment. I saw the hydroxychloroquine study that was horse crap. I went through it all. We were lied to. We were misled. And I had to tell that mom her baby was dying and I couldn't do anything about it because these corrupt bastards wanted to make that money more than they cared about the lives of these kids and family members. I got to tell you, my experience was different in that people that ended up in extremists like that were mostly elderly and not young people like you evidently were exposed to. They were. were mostly elderly and not young people like you evidently were exposed to they were but but the but the other thing that i found outrageous was that we this this was my problem with the thing

it's quite different than yours because i did not really see any good data at the time you can we can argue about it now and where it's been and whatnot, but I had no confidence in ivermectin or hydroxychloroquine. Monoclonal antibodies were exceedingly effective and they were bought and free. They were free and they were changing them as the virus changed. So we had, remember Regeneron, remember that? And then we have Bamlanivimab and then we had the combos.

And these things work. They saved me personally. I had Bamlanivimab. I do. And then we had the combos. And these things worked. They saved me. Personally, I had Bamlanivimab, and it got better that day. And you could even use it as a prophylactic agent for an exposure. Earlier, there was, and the government was, A, not educating people on how to deal with the illness when it occurred. So nobody knew that they could get this. Nobody knew it was free. No one knew that that nurse would show up in their house and infuse it.

And in certain states, Florida, they began withholding it because they didn't like the politics of the attorney, of the surgeon general there. That was mind blowing to me. The public health institutions should have been out there educating, here's how you deal with the illness when you get it. And by the way, doctors telling patients to go home and come back when you're blue, I've never in my life imagined my peers behaving like that. So there were many, many chapters in this experience of the extraordinary.

We still have to dig through to see what the truth was that led to all this. And then you're trying to figure out, was this vaccine, was it pre-existing? Have we just accelerated it? Or is it a new vaccine? Or why the spike protein? We're still reaching in the dark in a lot of these areas. We still don't have the full history elucidated. Would you agree?

That's true. But I will tell you this. I had data back in, oh, I'd have to check the date, but I had whistleblower data. The summer, I want to say summer of 2021, I had some whistleblowers who came forward from Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security. And I'll share this presentation. If you want to, I'd be happy to come back and share it with you because it'll take a little bit of time to go through it. But by the summer of 2021, our government had said that they were going to track Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, this, that, and other.

We had the DMED data. We had all these things. They were tracking this. And I've got data from Texas, red, and other. We had the DMED data. We had all these things. They were tracking this. And I've got data from Texas. Red, red Texas. Because everybody wants to make it a red-blue issue, right? It wasn't red-blue. Everybody sold out.

And I'm going to tell you, I got data from Texas that showed 90% of the people put on a vent were killed. 90%. So, you're telling me, 9 out of 10, you're telling me that the doctors who were treating this didn't notice? You're telling me that they're going to say, no, you can't try ivermectin when 9 out of 10 people going on that event is going to die? I mean, listen, at that point, you can try whatever you want to try. Right. I agree with you on that.

That was my point in the whole thing. I don't care if the doctor wants to sprinkle fairy dust, we're in trouble. Go ahead. Have at it. I mean, budesonide was sort of arrived at by accident. Fluvoxamine, there's been some positive studies on that. You know, the things that were completely marginalized

have shown to have some utility. And I agree with you. Whatever the doctor, the patient, the family wanted to do, they should have been able to do, whatever it was. But back to your point about the ventilator, we were treating numbers, not patients, it seemed to me at that point. We were treating people who were severely hypoxic as though they were in imminent danger of demise.

And we don't know that. All we know is that once they got on the ventilator, they were in imminent danger of demise. So that's another historical thing that's got to get sorted out here. Well, let me provide my skeptic's view, right? Like I said, from the jaded side. Because again, five years ago- Fully jaded. I'm partially jaded. You're the fully jaded. Fully jaded. I'm about as jaded. Well, well because remember then the doctors who fought it ended up coming to me to defend their license so i mean it was so let me offer you this let's think about this from the top down so you've got your uh your your treatment team the guys at the hospital

system that decide the protocols that they're going to implement yes so you've got you know you don't have many independent doctors anymore almost Almost everybody's part of the system. But right there, right there was new information. I didn't know that, that we were so dependent on clinical pathways and how we treated our patients to be handed down from an administration, not a professional, not an infectious disease group, from the administration from on high, or you lose your job. This was brand new information to me. And I remember when, during COVID,

I was trying to help people understand what was going on. And I interviewed ICU doctors, pulmonary doctors every so often. And I remember I was very focused on how we were gonna deal with the cytokine storm, because that's what was killing people, to be fair. And we started talking about Toxeluzumab, and instead it was starting to show some efficacy.

Three weeks later, I talked to that doctor, and he goes, we're not allowed to use it until we've done this, this, this, remdesivir, and then their oxygen saturation has to still be below that. Then we use Toxeluzumab, and guess what? It is kind of working there. It's like, why can't you use it when you want to use it, when it's your judgment that that's in the best interest of the patients in front of you? Not that you have a checklist that you have to go down.

That's not the drug companies, Tom. That is the weird infrastructure of medicine right now, which is all done from on high. Go ahead. And insurance companies and lawyers have something to do with that, to be fair. Oh, they have all to do with it. Yeah, okay. I'm about to tell you where that actually comes from because this is where the doctors need to hear the lawyers because you're right.

You don't have the freedom to be a doctor anymore. Well, where did that come from? Well, let's think back. When did the private doctors, the private practice doctors, really start going extinct? Right after Obamacare. The paperwork, the electronic medical records,

all these things, it was too much. You couldn't be in private practice anymore. So they consolidated. Well, what happened? Well, we saw the small systems consolidate into the big systems. And we saw what that did.

Exactly right. So every doctor now works under, and let's talk about what happens there. You have insurance companies that are sometimes owned by major hospital systems, or at least are partnering with them. Everybody's scratching each other's backs, and the government's involved with it as well. And you've got three different groups that all determine the treatment that you get as a patient and what you as a doctor can provide. You've got the insurance companies, you've got the government, and you've got the hospital system. None of those three give a damn about the patients. What they care about is the bottom line. Yeah, you're breaking my heart here. And to hear you say that doctors can't practice medicine,

it just sort of cuts right through me because I know it to be true. And it's actually why one of the reasons I'm working at the wellness company is I want to give things. We've lost as physicians. We've lost our ability to practice medicine. But we can give stuff to the patients and let them take care of themselves. That's why I want them to get the emergency kits. I'm going to come up with STI kits.

I want us to give stuff to the patients that they should have access to and education and telehealth that they wanted so they can take care of themselves and be empowered by us in the healthcare rather than be stuck with this infrastructure that is, as you say, does not give a damn about them. It's crazy. It's craziness that we're in this situation. Well, I want to explain to you, because one of the things that I've never done is I've never explained to you what I do for a living. So I'm an attorney, but early on when I decided, I'm a nobody from a little town in Ohio, right? How do you fight big pharma? How do you fight the U.S. government? You can't, I can't go into a courtroom and do that. I can, I have, I will continue to,

but there's got to be more, right? So very early on, and the reason that you've heard my name and the reason that I get to come on shows like this and to do things like this is because what I did was something different. And what I've defined it as is lawfare, right? So when we hear lawfare, we think about unethical lawyers filing suit after suit after suit until you're broke. That's unethical. That's not lawfare. Lawfare is when I come out and I educate the public, I push for legislative change, and I file lawsuits strategically to facilitate change.

Understand that what you're talking about, when you talk about the interaction between a doctor and a patient and that fiduciary obligation and the tortious interference that's likely coming from on high between that fiduciary obligation, these are things that can and will be changed. This is what I'm fighting for, right? So when I talk, a lot of times people have a hard time understanding because, well, you're a lawyer, you sue somebody. Yeah, that's true. And I don't spend as much time on this because I'm content being a dumb guy from Ohio. That said, understand that what we're really fighting here is a broken system where a doctor and a patient don't have a relationship anymore. And to fix this, we have to do this from a legislative approach.

We have to do it from a litigation approach. And most importantly, that can only be driven by doing what we're doing here. And I pray to God 10 million people watch this show and understand that what we have to do is we have to make healthcare focused on doctors and patients and take it out of the hands of bureaucrats, crooked insurance companies, crooked hospital administrators, and other people who don't give a damn about whether you live or die. They only give a damn about the bottom line and whether their board's going to make sure that they get their next big bonus. That is God's honest truth. That is the truth. I would also argue that, again, like I was saying, I'm looking for alternative models where we can do things in the meantime because this is going to take a while and in the meantime i want people

to feel empowered and in control of their health care so i tom i want to leave it right there because what you just said i don't it's a it's a mic drop you know what you've just what you've just uh said it's and it's uh you can't imagine what it feels like as someone who's struggled with this for 35 years. It's something. I've been fighting insurance companies. It was in the mental health side, whatever you think is going on in the physical health,

the medical side, on the mental health side, on the psychiatric side, it's five times worse. It's just been, I've been fighting like a maniac over there for drug addicts and people with serious mental illness. Terrible, it's terrible. And so you've given me a little bit of hope that there's somebody like you fighting out there, and I appreciate it. And it is interesting, isn't it? It's interesting. I feel like you're

a detective and sort of opening up some interesting Pandora's boxes. I hope not literally. I mean, I hope they don't blow up in your face or whatever. And that we continue to- Sometimes. Your humility, while the aw shucks part of it, I don't buy, but the humility I think is very important in regards to doing this work. You just got to go humbly forward and say, we don't know, we're just looking for the truth.

And that's a humbling experience. Listen, I promised, and I don't care whether you're a God person or not. I am. And at the beginning of this, I promised God I'd do whatever it took to win this fight. I'm in it. I'm in it for the long haul. We'll be free or I'll die on the hill. And I don't care which, because at the end of the day, I can't forget that mom from Indiana. That haunts my

dreams. And every one of those calls will haunt my dreams till the day I die. I didn't sign up to be a field medic. I didn't even sign up to be a doctor. I thought I was going to be a lawyer. I didn't know I was going to be dealing with, hey, I don't have the time to save your life, so you're going to die. And I didn't want that. So I'm going to find accountability. It's not about revenge. It's about justice. I'm going to find that one way or another. And it is appreciated and it's particularly appreciated as from the physician in me has to say, you know, to have an attorney fighting for our freedom and the relationship with

our patients and the ability to serve our patients. It's not been my experience throughout my career. So to have you there fighting is incredibly inspiring. So, uh, to a Renz-law.com anywhere else, uh, your Twitter handle is? TomRenz.com. Tom Renz. And the, and the, uh, and the Twitter handle is TomRenz also? TomRenz.com and RenzTom for the Twitter. TomRenz was already taken, so RenzTom. Fair enough. All right, my friend.

This has been a very interesting sort of journey we've been on today. And I always do find talking to you interesting. But today, I can't tell if it's that we got into interesting territory for me or if you've been so far down this road now that you're into some very interesting material. And Godspeed going forward with further progress. I appreciate it, Doc. I'll come back and I'll show you how early we had that Medicare data because that stuff, that'll jade you a little bit as well. All right.

We will save that for next time and uh for everyone else we are being here thank you tom we're in here tomorrow with uh nicole and jimmy it's a little bit of a uh change of focus you'll enjoy her she's very cool she's a medical educator ed dowd uh that will be again breathtaking to get some more numbers in here salty cracker on decemberth, Senator Rand Paul coming in on the 13th on an early show with Mary Bowden. We have Brad Williams on the 21st.

We have a bunch of great guests coming up down the road, keep an eye out for that. And we're running into the holidays. What's that, Susan? Hold on, here you go. You missed Michelle Alendi and oh, well, she's coming on the 20th. I sort of stay silent when I've not been debriefed on who the guests are.

So if I skip something, it is generally for a reason. So thank you for embarrassing me in front of everybody. Appreciate it as always. That's your job. Caleb, anything from you? No, I think everyone on Rumble is going to be very excited for Salty Cracker. It's a very, they're probably just going,

I'm not even watching the comments and I know they're burning them up right now. Okay, good. And thank you to our friends over here at VShred for taking care of us today and look for more material on Susan too on her VShred journey. We appreciate you all.

There's the website if you want to learn more about that. I've lost 16 pounds, guys. And we will see you tomorrow at three o'clock Pacific time. Ask Dr. Drew is produced by Caleb Nation and Susan Pinsky. As a reminder, the discussions here are not a substitute for medical care, diagnosis, or treatment. This show is intended for educational and informational purposes only. I am a licensed physician, but I am not a replacement for your personal doctor and I am not practicing medicine here.

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