Ask Dr. Drew - Why The FBI Confronted Jeremy Kauffman At Home After Viral Anti-Kamala Social Post + Ex DoD Operative Tony Shaffer on Mark Robinson & RFK Scandals – Ask Dr. Drew – Ep 407

Episode Date: September 30, 2024

Libertarian activist Jeremy Kauffman was visited by FBI agents after he wrote a controversial post suggesting that killing VP Kamala Harris would make someone an “American hero.” Kauffman later shared footage of the FBI visit, saying it was an overreaching response to his freedom of speech. Under U.S. federal law, specifically 18 U.S. Code § 871, making threats to harm or kill the president, vice president, or presidential candidates is a criminal offense, even if claimed as free speech, and “shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years, or both.” Jeremy Kauffman is a tech entrepreneur and advocate for decentralized technology. He invented the LBRY protocol and founded Odysee, a decentralized social media platform. Kauffman previously served as CEO of LBRY Inc. and TopScore, a SaaS company he bootstrapped to process hundreds of millions in service fees. He was an executive director of the Free State Project and holds degrees in physics and computer science from Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute. Kauffman’s work has been featured in the New York Times, Reuters, and Reason. Follow him at https://x.com/jeremykauffman Lt. Col. Anthony Shaffer (Ret) is a Senior Fellow and President of the London Center for Policy Research. With over 35 years of field experience, he’s a Military Operations Training Course graduate who has held key leadership positions in defense intelligence. Lt. Col. Shaffer led Task Force STRATUS IVY and played crucial roles in inter-agency operations with NSA, CIA, and FBI. He served two combat tours in Afghanistan, earning a Bronze Star. As a regular commentator on national security, he has testified before Congress on intelligence issues. Lt. Col. Shaffer retired from the Army in 2011 after 30.5 years of service. Follow him at https://x.com/T_S_P_O_O_K_Y 「 SUPPORT OUR SPONSORS 」 Find out more about the brands that make this show possible and get special discounts on Dr. Drew's favorite products at https://drdrew.com/sponsors  • FATTY15 – The future of essential fatty acids is here! Strengthen your cells against age-related breakdown with Fatty15. Get 15% off a 90-day Starter Kit Subscription at https://drdrew.com/fatty15 • CAPSADYN - Get pain relief with the power of capsaicin from chili peppers – without the burning! Capsadyn's proprietary formulation for joint & muscle pain contains no NSAIDs, opioids, anesthetics, or steroids. Try it for 15% off at https://drdrew.com/capsadyn • PALEOVALLEY - "Paleovalley has a wide variety of extraordinary products that are both healthful and delicious,” says Dr. Drew. "I am a huge fan of this brand and know you'll love it too!” Get 15% off your first order at https://drdrew.com/paleovalley • THE WELLNESS COMPANY - Counteract harmful spike proteins with TWC's Signature Series Spike Support Formula containing nattokinase and selenium. Learn more about TWC's supplements at https://twc.health/drew 「 MEDICAL NOTE 」 Portions of this program may examine countervailing views on important medical issues. Always consult your physician before making any decisions about your health. 「 ABOUT THE SHOW 」 Ask Dr. Drew is produced by Kaleb Nation (https://kalebnation.com) and Susan Pinsky (https://twitter.com/firstladyoflove). This show is for entertainment and/or informational purposes only, and is not a substitute for medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

We have another great lineup for you today. Lieutenant Colonel Anthony Schaefer in here in the second half of the show. He's a senior fellow and president of the London Center for Policy Research. 35 years of experience in the military, key leadership positions in defense, intelligence. He was a spook, he tells me. He was a spy. In fact, his X handle is T underscore S underscore P-O-O-K-Y with underscore between each letter.

So check him out there. He'll be here in just a second. We got a lot to talk about. And then before, coming up just in a second, we have Jeremy Kaufman. Jeremy has been an inventor. He invented library protocol. He's founded Odyssey.

He is someone that's been very interested in the decentralization of social media. And he's a libertarian and he got visited by the feds for having said a little too much on a free platform. So we'll talk about what happened to him, what his thoughts are, and we'll be right with you after this. Our laws as it pertains to substances are draconian and bizarre. A psychopath started this. He was an alcoholic because of social media and pornography, PTSD, love addiction, fentanyl and heroin. Ridiculous. I'm a doctor for f***'s sake.

Where the hell do you think I learned that? I'm just saying. You go to treatment before you kill people. I am a clinician. I observe things about these chemicals. Let's just deal with what's real. We used to get these calls on Loveline all the time. Educate adolescents and to prevent and to treat.

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In addition to all that I listed earlier, he was important roles in interagency operations, NSA, CIA, FBI, all the three-letter agencies that Mike Benz has alerted us to the concerns about. But right now, we're going to go to Jeremy Kaufman. You can follow him on X at Jeremy Kaufman, K-A-U-F-F-M-A-N. His website is KaufJ, K-A-U-F-F-J.com. And the FBI visited Jeremy. We'll hear about it in just a second. Welcome to the program. Hey, it's great to be on.

You know, I'll do anything to get on this show, including stand up to federal agents. You know, so whatever it takes. I'm so glad you did. So I'm going to step aside of that story for just a second and talk more about your libertarian predilections and what you're doing in the great state of New Hampshire. Sure, they're closely related. So I moved to New Hampshire more than a decade ago as part of the Free State Movement, which is this movement to concentrate libertarians in one physical place. Sort of the core idea is recognizing that libertarians have lost forever and are likely to continue to lose. But there are enough of us

that if we stand together, we can be stronger. And we're winning here. The House Majority Leader in New Hampshire is a free stater. We have around 100 people in the state house, in the state legislature. And we have a congressional candidate, Lily Tang Williams, who is now running for office and has been making national headlines and has a good chance to become a congressman. And she is as great as Thomas Massey, and everyone should be supporting her. So this is a movement that's working. And part of what makes it possible to stand up to federal agencies, knowing that there is this large group of people who are going to have your back, where it's part of the culture to do it.

I'm not standing alone. And you had mentioned that you think of libertarianism, rather than thinking about conservative and I guess liberal is the other word. I don't even know what words to use anymore. Right versus left. Give me your theories on that. So most of the libertarians here are right-wing libertarians, although not all of them are. I see left-right as oriented about your moral views.

How much are you focused on local versus far? How much do you see, where's your locus of control? Is it about you and your local community? Or do you see, where's your locus of control? Is it about you and your local community? Or do you see things as sort of happening to you? You know, left-right seems to underpin so many issues. Even inside of the libertarian movement, you see what I would call right-wing libertarians and left-wing libertarians fighting all of the time. So I consider myself a right-wing libertarian because I'm on the right. I'm comfortable with hierarchy. I'm focused locally. I like to celebrate excellence. I don't have a lot of sympathy for people who, when I view their failures as being a result of their own choices

and this kind of thing, where a left-wing person would be on the other side of that. I don't consider myself a conservative because I consider conservatism to mean how, how much your orientation is about keeping things as they are right. Conservative. That's what it's like reactionary. Yeah, exactly.

Um, and so I would see progressive as being on the other side of that, where you're, you're, um, explicitly focused on, on changing things. So is it,

so, so one of the things that has been preoccupying, I, by the way, I'm a thousand percent a free speech literalist absolutist. And so there's more of my libertarian instincts are. And I thought I was kind of a libertarian until I met my friend Kat Tempf. And I've said this many times and I thought, oh, right, that's a libertarian. You can't really have a heart and be a libertarian. And I say that with my tongue in my cheek. It's not meant to be critical. It's just meant to be that it probably is my left-leaning stuff

that gets in the way of my being a full libertarian. But the thing that has absolutely flummoxed me in recent years is this desire for centralized authority. So, I mean, it is just, again, flabbergasting. I can't, I'm gobsmacked that in the face of the historical sweep of the outcome of centralized authority and the evils that are done and the excesses that always come, that people want that? Do they know that's what they're leaning towards? Again, it's so hard for me to get my head around. Help me with that. So this is a really fascinating area. I tend to be on the side of, we really do have fundamental differences. We have fundamental different psychologies and worldviews. We can debate

how rooted these are in biology versus our environmental, although I think biology absolutely plays a role in these things, but they seem to be relatively fixed by adulthood. And so this means we have different impulses in terms of how egalitarian we are, how authoritarian we are. And one of the more fascinating pieces of research I've found is that the left-wing authoritarian does not self-perceive themselves as authoritarian. The right-wing authoritarian does. Right. Well, the right-wing authoritarian is like, yeah, I'm an authoritarian, right? I want to make everything the way that I think things should be, and I'm going to use force to do that. The left-wing authoritarian doesn't. They don't self-perceive that way. And this is really fascinating because where do you go from there?

And I'm sure you've had conversations with this type of person as I have, and it's like the words almost don't enter your brain. You can try to define terms, and it just doesn't work. My answer, of course, as a fre stater is to separate, but go ahead. Well, that's the way it's going, right? People are just moving to different states and that's that. But I just think when you talk about that sort of lack of understanding of your authoritarian impulses, I think about how the California governor approached us when he locked the state down. He's like, hey, man, we're going to do this together. It's cool. It's just we got

to get ready. We're going to all do this. It's this very kind of aw shucks-y sort of presentation. F-ing two years later, people are begging to get back to their businesses, begging to go back to the beach. And you're like, no, I'm busy at busy with the French laundry. Sorry. No, not for you. Good for thee, but not for me. I think it's unbelievable how people have taken this abuse and it's like, they don't even remember that it happened. It's one of the more mine again. I mean, I'm old enough that I feel like I've seen this play out a couple of times. So like, it's a little bit less like if I was still in my twenties, it would really be blowing my mind. You know, now I feel like I just kind of get it and it's just kind of normal and it's just what I expect. And so, you know, I see this as a,

one of my more uncomfortable presentations of this. I see myself, like I see libertarians sort of like something like gay men, you know, like they're, you're just not going to convince other people to like this, right? It's you like it, you know, but other people don't. So I hold these views sincerely. A lot of people do. A lot of people never will. They never will. And, you know, I think it's much healthier if we go in the direction of, look, we're

not persuading each other. We're not changing each other's minds. Doesn't it make more sense? Wouldn't it be better for everyone if we sort of sort ourselves out? Because then more people can be happy and more people can get what they want. You know, if California- Well, here's the problem.

I'll tell you the problem. Jeremy, here's the problem. Here's the problem. I mean, that's the way the founding fathers set it up, right? These are 50 independent states or these were different countries to begin with, frankly. And, you know, they couldn't, it was doubtful that they could all get along

or form a union. And so, yeah, I get that. But the problem is going to be that the non-centralized, decentralized economies are going to do so much better than places like California. And the quality of life is going to be so superior. Eventually California is going to go to the federal government and just say, Hey, those guys, they're doing too well. They need to give us some money. And that that's where things are going to break down. I think that's plausible.

I think we do have to think about the game theory and so on of how we do these kinds of things, but I don't think it's impossible that you can make it through this. And one of the things that our movement does try to focus on is ways to increase nullification, ways to increase state independence from the federal government. We do have an active independence movement as well, although I don't know that that's strictly necessary to achieve our ends but i do think it is possible uh to have if you have enough people in a state there's a big there's a big sort of sour grapes aspect of authoritarian governments like an

authoritarian government wants to regulate everything but if they can't control something they kind of act like they never wanted to because they need to maintain this projection of their, well, why did, all right, let's, feel free to be skeptical of this. I am, by the way, I love arguing, so be skeptical. I'm skeptical. I'll tell you why I'm skeptical. I'm skeptical because in California, they went, really? You're not, you're not going to listen to us?

F you, we're coming after you. And they did. They absolutely destroyed people for daring to stand up and go, you know, I've got outdoor dining here. If you want to wear masks outside, it's insane, but go ahead. Okay, we got to pay our employees. These people count on us to be able to support their families. We've been here for 50 years. Just kind of leave us alone.

F you. They put a fence around those people. They went harder. That's one of the many things I can't get over. Well, I think partially it's that there aren't enough of you. And when there are enough of you, they don't want to do it anymore. Actually, I can tell you a story that just happened today. This story is just coming out because I was just there before I drove back home to get on your show. So one of the woke school districts in New Hampshire, we do have some, we haven't won yet.

So one of the woke school districts, there's this fight over transgenders in girls sports. And some parents in one of these school districts, just a couple of parents put on these, I wish I had it near me, I'd put it on. It's like 10 feet away. It's this pink XX bracelet. And the school district said it was disruptive, asked the parents to leave and barred them from coming back to the girls' sports games. Just today, 80 parents or 80 people, not all parents, 80 people showed up at the next girls' game, the next girls' soccer game. We had 80 parents all put on pink XX bracelets. Okay.

And guess what? They didn't ask a single one of us to leave because they can do it against two people, but they can't do it against 80 people. And what they're going to do now is act like they never wanted to do this in the first place. Now, I don't consider that a total victory until someone loses their job. So I think some people in the Bo's school district need to lose their job. But I do think there's an aspect of this, that the COVID stuff wasn't nearly as strong in New Hampshire. And even if they made one, they generally didn't

enforce it because they knew there were a bunch of us here who were going to stand up and disobey it even if they tried. Speaking of disobeying, let's switch over to the story about your visit from the feds. You know, a friend of mine was a radio talent and he was goofing around, making fun of something about President Obama, probably salacious and blue. It was radio after all, back, it was like 10 years ago or maybe more. And President Obama was gonna make a visit to california los angeles

right then like the next couple weeks away and that's probably why he was having you know talking about him on a rock radio station and uh within 48 hours uh the the um secret service was knocking at his door uh and spent hours interviewing him. They were nice, but they were quite serious about the interview. Surely you knew you were going to get a visit from somebody. Well, I think there was some discussion in our group chat that someone in our group might get a visit. So I'm part of the Libertarian Party of New Hampshire. The Libertarian Party of New Hampshire basically goes out of its way to sort of be edgy and provocative and generate attention. Part of

the reason that we do this is to, we want to create a certain reputation for the state as being full of libertarian extremists. We see it as necessary to changing. Yeah, it's necessary to changing. I don't think about libertarian as an extremist position but that's it's i guess it is now if you're a socialist it is for people on the other side of our value frame okay yeah uh it is it is extremist and so the libertarian party of new hampshire you can find you can google libertarian party of new hampshire and see all the various news articles that have been written about us and it's not just me on the account, by the way. There's five people or more who are regularly posting to this account. And what we try to do is create a reputation for New Hampshire via this account.

And it's worked a number of times that we've been able to generate news stories. And part of the reason we do that is, you know, in the same way that if a, you know, if a liberal or a left progressive moves to Florida or moves to Texas and they go home for Thanksgiving or they hang out with their college friends or whatever, there's this sense of, why would you live there? You're going to live there, and we want New Hampshire to have that same reputation. We do not want anyone left-wing coming into the state of New Hampshire. We do not want them to move here. And ultimately, if they can't accept a libertarian power structure, we want them to literally leave the state. We want them to self-deport. And we already have a lot of instances of self-deportation that has happened. So we play it from both sides. We have people who play a very tight to the chest,

go and get elected as Republicans and Democrats, get into office. And then we have another wing that attempts to be a sort of more, you know, so we have the Malcolm X side, and we have the Martin Luther King side, and LPNH's job is to play the Malcolm X side. It is extreme beyond, I think, what even LPNH members believe. And we use the account in a way, in a provocative way. And now, of course, and by the way, I'm not taking credit for that tweet. We don't even know specifically why the FBI visited because the FBI did not state in their visit why they were there. And so also, I think if the FBI is going to visit someone's house, they need to say why they're

visiting someone's house. And at no point did they say that in the video. So it is true that LPNH tweeted that. LPNH also later deleted that as a way of saying that we didn't stand by it. And we put out a longer statement about it. But they didn't say why they were visiting. And I think they want people, they want to create this kind of chilling effect around speech generally. There are celebrities who speak similarly to that tweet about Trump all the time, prominent celebrities, hold up a bloody head, talk about how they wish the bullet hadn't missed and this kind of thing. That is a clearly legal tweet under the Brandenburg standard, Brandenburg-Risks-Ohio standard for First Amendment speech. Oh, there's another case

for this law. I'm trying to remember the case law for it. But again, there's a clear standard around whether you are being specific and encouraging this kind of eminent threat. And so there's nothing in that tweet that is a threat. There's nothing in that tweet that meets the incitement standard. Simply saying how you would react to an event does not meet the incitement standard. So let me drill a little further, a little bit further, and I want to hear about your experience there too, which is do you have concerns about some of the

rhetoric on the other side this is going to steal democracy this person's hitler this person uh keeps talking about bloodbath and using that kind of rhetoric do those there's that does not it does not have any specific um recommendations for harm and you know, if you follow the logic out, you, you, you'd want to protect yourself from somebody that was going to do those things or who was Hitler. Is it still okay for them to say those things? I think it's all, I think it's all okay. Honestly, in terms of what I would allow, I would actually go farther than, than Brandenburg probably in terms of what I would personally allow in my own society. I think that what all this stuff is showing is that our differences are so fundamental that people are comfortable with some amounts of violence.

And I see, I'm going to be voting for, I will be voting for Trump in November. I think he's a best chance for turning some of this around, but I give the odds of Trump, the chance of Trump turning this stuff around is honestly relatively low. I think that the people who, I don't want to put you in the bucket with me here, Drew, but I think people with my sort of views on things are well under one sixth of America. There's no sign of this changing. And that means that the people who are on this side of things need to figure out something different. They need to figure out something different

because what we're doing is not working. And I do not think that in terms of demographics, and I don't even mean just race here, I mean just the demographics even inside of whites who are more traditionally Republican and libertarian voters, even inside of that population, I don't think the majority of them would have my views. I do think my views are quite close to the views of the founders. I think my views are quite similar to the views of people who throughout history have created and achieved great things, but I think they are minority views. I think this sort of mind frame of egalitarian leveling has conquered America. And my view of a lot of Republicans are

left-wing and they don't deserve to be considered to be on the right. And so the people who aren't of that frame need to be figuring out a way to build something different, to be coming together and create something new. Because not only are we a dominated minority, this majority has captured so many important institutions. It's not just the FBI. They've captured the legacy journalists, the cable news outlets, they've captured the universities. And so you have a power structure that is successful at keeping out any sort of right-wing, individualistic, hierarchical man. And these people can't participate in the power structure. The power structure successfully excludes them. Or perhaps, like your next guest, they keep their head down for a while and they can kind of exist within it.

But eventually, and when they get out of it, they're willing to speak up and talk about all the things that happened and that they saw when they were a part of it. But even more so, this structure has gotten incredibly successful at just keeping these people out. That's why 90% of journalists are Democrats and 95% of professors are on the left and 90% of tech employees are on the left and so on and so forth, this other mindset is getting successfully excluded from all these places. Do you think we just go through historical trends where these things catch on or is the sort of freedom fighting instincts of the foundation of this country truly an anomalous event? I think it's an anomalous event, but it's a current that's existed within portions of humanity for a long time. As someone who's tried to find the truth of this matter, one of the areas that I found the most interesting was the evolution of egalitarian behavior. We evolved in these tribal bands of 150, or less, and they did have alphas, but that alpha was frequently leveled by groups of betas. his head down and would have to hide his skills and hide his abilities.

And if he grew too strong, he would be ganged up on, he would be beaten up and potentially murdered. So this is the context, this leveling impulse. You can see it everywhere, right? Why do environmentalists hate Elon Musk, the man who has done more for the environment than anyone? Because Elon Musk stands tall. He's an ape who stands tall. And so many people have this impulse when they see someone do that and they want to level that

person. America selected for people who didn't have this impulse. This is why you read about early American history, you know, Tocqueville, American exceptionalism. It came from this positive selection for people who didn't have these psychological attributes. They built the greatest country to ever exist. We've now flooded it with, we've both flooded it with people who don't hold those values and there's regression to the mean.

And so now we, this view, the view set of the creative America, the founder of America is now a minority in its own country and the whole world has been swallowed. There's nowhere to go. So we got to go to Mars. We got to go out to sea.

And we got to go to New Hampshire. Those are the choices. You're talking about the poison of envy. And if you look at every religious text through time, there's injunctions against that emotion to be aware of it, the destructive nature of envy. And there's no doubt about that. It is just a terrible emotion for us to lean into.

And it becomes more prominent when narcissism occurs and when narcissism is blossoming is when there's childhood trauma and disrupted family systems. And now here we are in this country. I do believe we could deal with our envy someday, that we could go in another, as things stabilize a little bit, go in another direction, but I don't know. Are you, do you,

you must know Michael Malice, right? I know of Michael Malice. I haven't met, I haven't made it onto a show. I'm on, I'm on Dave Smith's show, part of the problem a lot. And they, they, they rolled together a bunch and I'm a fan of, I'm a fan of Malice. Malice I think would be, would be very familiar, would be very familiar with these ideas. And I did want to say, you're right that if you look at the things that have prevented this egalitarian leveling,

it's actually, and this is going to be weird for a libertarian to say, but it's religions, governments, and corporations, right? And that is why the meme complex of a lot of religions is discouraging this kind of envious impulse, because humans can achieve more when we don't act that way. We also act less this way when we have clear enemies or existential threats. So when a group has clear enemies or existential threats, we don't do as much egalitarian

leveling. And this is why people like Peter Thiel really want America to have a foreign enemy, because he thinks it will make America stronger and more exceptional when we're oriented towards a foreign adversary. Well, I'm going to ask Tony Schaefer whether we are likely to have that. So keep listening. Maybe we'll have the great good fortune of being attacked. It's a crazy thing. Where am I living right now? I want to, before I let you go, we're running out of time here. I want to go back to the visit by the feds and sort of share with people that didn't see that. It seems like it was a pretty noisy clip. It went around X, you know, I'm sure.

How many clicks or reshares or what happened with it? It must have been a million or more. I think it was 35 million. Oh, wow. Okay, let's see. Those of you who have not seen it, you should. Here we go. Could you please stop recording? No. It's first-member, right? This will be going

online as soon as you walk away. All I want to do is talk to you about a post that was made. I want to talk to you to you about a post that was made. I want to talk to you about you guys coming here. Say you make a salary of, I don't know, what, low 100K? You guys making six figures?

Factor in 50% expenses, overhead, maybe 100% expenses. Talking about burning a couple hundred dollars an hour just here, let alone all the time you guys are spending to investigate something that you know is not against the law, right? Like you're familiar with. So then why would you come? Because we wanted to make sure that there weren't any threats. No, you're coming because you're part of a regime that does this kind of thing when you know laws aren't being broken. And that's an embarrassment, man. Didn't you guys read the Constitution?

Do you not believe in America? Like how do you do your jobs and go home we appreciate it you're walking away because nothing we did is against the law and you guys are heads that try to act like bullies because you know that what you're doing is embarrassing you know americans that believe in the constitution think you're laughable and you go home and you think about what you did today go home and think think about what you did today. Go home and think about it, you coward. Well, okay. No doubt about how you feel about Jeremy. I have another good one.

So Jeremy, I put this together. I counted how many times you asked them for their identification and how many times they ignored you. So here we go. Here we go. Can you give your full name, please? asked them for their identification and how many times they ignored you. So here we go. Here we go. I'm Agent O'Donnell with the FBI. Can you give your full name, please?

Could you please state your full name, sir? What's your name, sir? You can show me your name and identification, or I'm going to go back inside my house. So you can show me your name or ID. You can walk away. I'm not going to talk to people who claim to be federal agents unless they can show me identification. I'd like to see something with your full name, or I'm not going to talk to you.

Could you please stop recording? No. It's First Amendment right. I know we saw the rest of that don't go up against a libertarian who knows his rights don't go up against a libertarian who knows his rights even watching the video my palms do get a little sweaty it's not easy, my adrenaline

absolutely racing during that I can laugh about it now. If you're going to do that kind of thing, try to practice a little bit. You'll get better at it. I actually, my lights are out again. I actually felt bad for those guys. I particularly, I think reading the sort of the thought bubble

over the guy down at the bottom of the stairs, my thought bubbles were almost identical to him. He's like, oh, my God, another libertarian. Okay. It's like he was cracking up, which I appreciated, actually, because there was some humor in it. And thank God he could just laugh a little bit, not take himself so seriously. Yeah, more than a decade ago, an early Free State Project founder

named Carla Garrick stood up to the police here and established the fact that we legally have the right to film law enforcement officers at any time that they are acting in an official capacity. So this case went all the way to the New Hampshire Supreme Court, I believe. Fact check that. But she did win a settlement, a financial settlement against the Ware Police Department. And after that, it has been clear under New Hampshire law that you have the right to record law enforcement officers when they're acting in a professional capacity. Well, I think this is a good promotion for the great state of New Hampshire. I got to say, I've been all over Vermont. I lived in Massachusetts for a while, so I was living west in Massachusetts.

So Vermont was right north of us. But I think the only place I've ever been to in New Hampshire is Hampton Beach, the casino there. I had to do a presentation there. But it was lovely, and the people were lovely. And, you know, I mean, people that have never lived in New England don't know how beautiful it is. That's right.

It really is a spectacular region. We have a fun event every summer, porkfest.com. If anyone wants to grab a ticket, it's like a week-long Libertarian Festival. It's a great introduction to the scene and community here. There'll be several thousand people out of it this year. People can also come up for a visit any time of year. But every Libertarian has got to check out New Hampshire at least once. And you've got to meet some of the people, too.

It's not about the towns and the scenery. It's about this network. We have a network of people, of like-minded people, where you'll be able to find allies and supporters wherever you are. Well, you know what I love about this more than anything is that I love it when our government functions the way it's supposed to. And in the sense that you can grab a group of like-minded people, find representation, send the representation to the state and federal government. That is how this is supposed to work. So for that, I applaud you and keep up the good work. Thanks. Live free to die.

All right, Jeremy. Thank you so much. Jeremy Kaufman. Follow him on X Jeremy Kaufman and check his website out, KAUFFI.com and go visit him in the great state of New Hampshire. So what we're going to do is take a little break and when I come back, we're going to get Lieutenant Colonel Anthony Schaefer in here. As Jeremy pointed out, he was very involved with the three-letter agencies and how they operate. There is his book, Operation Dark Heart. Read that.

We'll be promoting that in a second. I'll tell you what's in there. 30 years of service in the Army. And you can follow him at, put it up there, Caleb. It's an odd thing to say. It's T, spooky, all capital with an underscore between each letter. It's T-S-P-O-O-K-Y.

There it is. Check out the underscore. Those letters aren't just separate. It's underscore between each letter. Follow him there. And we're going to talk about what he has learned. My understanding is it's a Mike Benz-esque romp we will take here in mere moments. Stay with us.

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in case the bird flu does become a problem for humans. Be rationally ready. drdrew.com slash GWC for 10% off. I ain't Dr. Drew. Dr. Drew. You want to spend the whole session talking about Dr. Drew? There you go. Even you call him Dr. Drew. My next guest is Lieutenant Colonel Anthony Schaefer. He's a senior fellow and president of the London Center for Policy Research. 35 years of field experience.

NSA, CIA, FBI, two combat tours in Afghanistan. Bronze star, he's earned a bronze star and a regular commentator on national security. Please welcome Tony. Tony, welcome to the program. Hey, Drew. Thanks for having me. Great to be here. It, welcome to the program. Hey, Drew. Thanks for having me. Great to be here. It's great to have you. So I want to start with a question that sort of Jeremy left us with,

which was this notion that a common enemy might be good for us, which I just shudder that we have to have these kinds of conversations. But are we likely to be visited from someone that turns us into a, I have two questions, that turns us into a more cohesive country? Or is that why we haven't heard from one? Because they know that's what could happen. Well, I think it's happened. I mean, right after 9-11, I think we unified behind George Bush, but for better or for worse, I'm not here to comment on that. And by the way, I tweeted Jeremy's tweet without knowing it, because I thought that was unifying in its own way by the fact that many of us see the overreach of the federal government becoming a problem. So at this point, because we have so many issues, and I'm a Reagan guy who leans libertarian. I'm

not a libertarian, but I lean that way. Ronald Reagan, during one of his speeches, talked about how the human race would become unified if there was an alien threat, a space alien threat, not the border ones. And that would bring humanity together to basically get out of our own heads, to abandon the idea of jealousy and greed and all these other things, to focus on what's best for everyone. So no doubt that that would happen. But, Drew, there's such a price to be paid by that. I mean, one of the times we were most unified was right after the Pearl Harbor attack. I'm doing a deep dive. One of the things I enjoy doing, I'm geek as a geek, is I sit and listen to hours of

detailed battles of World War II in the Pacific. Everything from the Pearl Harbor attack from the Japanese perspective to Tarawa to Guadalcanal. And just the cost of unifying around an issue, it comes at a tremendous loss of blood and treasure. So yeah, there's unity. And I think, I don't know if you want to go there or not, but I think many of the things right now that the Biden administration is doing is pushing us in a direction of a potential conflict with Russia or stirring something up in the Middle East. And yeah, I think we would be unified as a people. But again, the cost of doing that would be significant. And with 21st century weapons,

especially with the potential of nuclear weapons, man, oh man, that could be one last, putting the band back together for one last time to see devastation. So I'm always cautious when one talks about unity when we have to face a common enemy. So speaking of a common enemy, so I don't neglect doing so, Operation Dark Heart, tell us what's in that book. You've also written fictionalized books as well. I have. So, yeah, Operation Dark Heart was my time undercover in Afghanistan.

I was the senior clandestine human intelligence guy for defense intelligence. I worked for a guy named Lloyd Austin. You may have heard of him, SecDef, when he was a brigadier general. And Stan McChrystal during his first tour there. It goes through essentially when we went from winning to losing. We decided, Drew, we wanted to not only just beat the bad guys. We said we wanted to make Afghanistan into Minot, North Dakota. So $2 trillion later, we end up cashing it all in for nothing. And so

my book kind of goes through and talks about it. And we did pick the cover to mimic Apocalypse Now. If you see the art there, it does mimic that because it was kind of my voyage up the river, much like Captain Willard kind of going through. So you see it from my firsthand account as a major, I was a major at the time. And the big controversy obviously was my disclosure to Phil Zelikow, the staff director of the 9-11 Commission about the existence of a pre-9-11 operation called Able Danger where we had identified several of the 9-11 hijackers about a year before the attacks and how we were suppressed from allowing that information to be shared with the FBI and others. So I think people enjoyed it. It was New York Times bestseller, still selling. I'm still getting

residuals, Drew, 12 years later. So I guess people still enjoy it. So there you go. Congratulations. Yeah, I hear the Valkyrie playing in the background when I look at that picture. So what has happened to us? I am led to believe by Mike Benz that there's this blob, these three-letter agencies that are sort of running amok now. I guess maybe one way to frame my question would be what happened to the 50 intelligence officers that signed a document that said the Hunter Biden's laptop essentially didn't exist? What was that? What's wrong with these people?

Well, they acted politically. Look, I still take my oath of office seriously. I was talking to a colleague about this last night, as a matter of fact, about how we're taught, we're trained. They spent a lot of money training us through. I mean, I spent six months down at a place called the farm learning to be a spy. Before that I was at Fort Huachuca going through any number of training courses, going through things in special places with special weapons. My unit Stratus Ivy developed the first weaponized technology.

By the way, the concept of dark art was very much what the Israelis used against Hezbollah in some form. I don't want to get into that, but that could be another conversation at some point. But the idea was we were doing things that we thought were focused on being sneaky for the good reasons, hiding the truth to get the truth. What happened with those 51 intelligence officers, they decided that, I guess we're gonna take our access, our placement, our skills and use them politically because they lied. And during that same time, I had access to a copy of the Hunter Biden hard drive. I'm a qualified intelligence officer. I was actually on the Trump transition team. I was advising the chairman of the Joint Chiefs, Joe Dunford, before the Trump

victory. I actually advised Mike Pompeo after when he was director of CIA. So I'm a qualified intelligence officer, apparently. But my voice was shouted down when I was saying I knew personally, JP, I knew the guy, Colonel Ron Scott, who took the hard drive to the FBI, I believed to be authentic. But yet somehow these knuckleheads decided that, oh, we're going to ignore the truth and just put out there what they thought would score political points, which it did. And oh, by the way, Drew, seven of those guys, Clapper, and I know Jim Clapper. Jim Clapper promoted me from GS-11 to GS-12 when I was working for the Air Force as an operative. I said the other day on national TV

that Jim Clapper makes chimpanzees look smart. I stick by that comment. And these guys have decided to act politically. So seven of those 51 are now signing the 700 national security experts, bureaucrats, who have now come out and said they support Kamala Harris. So I'm always reluctant to put my name or my reputation or my experience behind something unless I know for a fact it's true. And those folks apparently, I think they have a fairly casual relationship with the truth. And so what is the blob so afraid of that Trump represents? That's the thing I can't quite figure out.

And is it possible that they're operating in the best interest of the public, or at least they certainly believe that? There's, the permanent state has become essentially an entity of itself. It does vote, it does act. It's also known as the deep state and the administrative state's very powerful. Look, we just talked about tonight the FBI, I think clearly exceeding its authority, acting in a political manner. I think that's what they're afraid of, Drew, is that they, the FBI and others, would be put back within a box. I'm a constitutional guy. I'm like you, I'm a First Amendment purist. I think we should be looking at things from the perspective of minimizing federal authority for purposes of

maximizing freedom and expression. And it's dangerous when you have the deep state, the administrative state picking a political side because they think they see benefit. And I think that's what it is. They see more benefit from being on the Democrat side. And heck, a lot of those guys that are assigned that are more, I think, Democrat operatives than they are intelligence professionals. And look, I'm running for office here in North Carolina as a Republican for a local office, county commissioner. I'm not saying I don't act politically. I'm saying if I act politically, it's going to be what I believe in the best interest of the American people based on my oath. And what I can do to help people regarding, maybe I'm a bit Mary Sue on this, but I think we need to all act in the best interest of our

society. These guys don't and again, I've known some of these folks. I've been in a room when they've made decisions which were, I knew were horrific. Just a quick example, back in the late 80s, early 90s, we knew that the North Koreans had a nuclear weapon. I was running a black operation that confirmed that, and yet the Clinton administration were pretending they didn't know that. They were negotiating as if we're going to stop North Korea from getting it. Little things like that. I couldn't say anything because I'm inside. Jeremy correctly identified I was in the inside. I couldn't say what I wanted to.

But at the time, I was questioning the judgment of Bill Clinton, of Tony Lake, and all the other folks who were making decisions which I didn't think would result in a positive outcome. So I think that's why you see Democrats and the deep state kind of working together more readily because I think they enjoy that. And the other thing is Eisenhower warned us about this, the military industrial congressional complex. Man, oh man, Tony Blinken said it, Lloyd Austin said it, much of the money we're spending these days on foreign wars, it's spent here. Raytheon, Boeing, all these big corporations have huge sway over the political direction of this country.

So you have this unhealthy economic relationship between large defense corporations and this deep state, whatever you wanna call it, it keeps it going. And it's ironic, it's not left or right. I don't consider myself a hardcore Republican, but people like Hillary Clinton, people like Dick Cheney, Tony Blinken, they're all neocons. And when the neocons, when the Cheneys left the party, when some of these other folks who have always professed to be Republicans, who were really war hawks left the party, I think that's a good thing.

Because we should not be promoting war as the first option within national security. Wasn't the original neocon movement back in the 80s, didn't that include sort of a moral absolutism? In addition to a constitutional absolutism? Am I getting that history wrong or was that just a passing fancy? Well, the crystals, Bill Crystal being the latest crystal, the origins of it is actually Trotsky, Trotskyism.

And many of the folks who were on the left saw the benefit of going to the Republicans. Because at the time, remember, Drew, back in the 60s and 70s, the Democrats were the party of peace. Remember, most of the time they were pushing peace. So I think

the neocons found a convenient home coming over to the conservative side for purposes of promoting Henry Kissinger, a big old guy who promoted, I think, very dangerous policies relating to using military force as a lead option within national security. So I think the neocons found a home. You mentioned Dr. London, Herb London Center. Herb started off as a neocon, and he recognized that being a neocon meant that you really came with some baggage which promoted activities and policies which really weren't in line with American values, which is to say, we should not be a bully. It is not our job to promote American values at the end of a gun. It's more about drawing people in. American exceptionalism to me is people coming

here and being exceptional. Elon Musk is the perfect example of American exceptionalism. He was born in South Africa. Did you know that some person on MSN embassy criticizing for losing his South African accent the other day? It's like, okay, that's kind of- Wow. Anyway, I know. So my point being is, he's exceptional because he came to America. And he's the tall, Jeremy just said, I love quote. He's the big guy that they all wanna get, even though his values I think are very American, very mainstream, yet somehow he's becoming extremist because he doesn't go along with the PAC who wants things differently.

So I think that's why the neocons, I think, left the Republican Party right now and have gone over to the Democrats. Yeah, and like Jeremy and I were discussing, this instinct to centralize authority in a faraway land in Washington, D.C. is such a bizarre instinct. It's so contrary to the sort of American ethos and the way the Constitution...

And I understand there's always a pull between sort of Hamiltonian versus Jeffersonian views. But what would these people say? What would their defense be? In other words, I always like to try to understand the other side of the table. And to me, on my side, it's thriving and economy and raising all boats and living an independent, actualized life where the fruits of your labors are enjoyed, and all these things that this country was founded on, would they say on the other side, look, you don't understand, it's a complicated world now, we have to be able to exert authority at a distance,

and in order to do that, we have to have lots of secrets. What would they say? What would their defense be? You've answered your own question. That's what they're against. They're against the idea of decentralized control because that creates uncertainty. One of the things I've noticed from being in a room with a lot of these guys is the idea that we're smarter than everybody else. Just ask them. Is that true?

Do they really believe that? That is disgusting. Oh, my God. That's disgusting. The boy wonder right now, the National Security Advisor, Jake Sullivan, got promoted because he has become the guy that everybody looks to for this, quote unquote, a fabulous, brilliant insight of foreign policy. Look at the mess he made. So I'm a practical guy. I sat in a room. I think you'll think this is funny. Bud McFarland was a friend and a mentor of mine, National Security Advisor to President Reagan.

We were in with the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, Joe Dunford, giving him some insight about what to expect whoever won the election in 2016. And Bud McFarland looked across at General Dunford, the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, and said, General Dunford, I want you to know that everybody in this room, and Mike Flynn was in the room, and Jim Woolsey, and Dick Newton, and Ambassador Hank Cooper, he says, I want you to know that everybody in this room was fired from the best jobs they ever had. And I thought that was a great moment, because it's true. Because the idea here is that we were all independent thinkers. We thought that things had to be done a certain way. And because of that, the deep state, the administrative state, we went that things had to be done a certain way. And because of that,

the deep state, the administrative state, we went against the powers that be and we paid that cost. And I think I'd still do it again in many ways. I was a whistleblower on 9-11 and all that. But that's the issue. It's the idea of power down trying to get information out which is real versus theory. And I've said before, Drew, that we have the high school debating team in charge of national security. Big on theory, big on concepts, but low on experience and not a very good practical understanding of how the real world works. What do you imagine, I'm gonna switch gears on you quickly here, the Olivia Nuzzi or Nuzzi,

whatever her name is, and this nonsense. I mean, no, RFK Jr., look, he was an addict. He probably was a sex addict one time in his life. He can't respond to these things. His sobriety, he won't make it. He'll die of drug addiction if he starts to go down that road. So the fact that they were trying to set him up,

first of all, the ethics are just beyond, but does this smell like an operation to you? Well, it does. Look, I'm a recovery. I just passed 32 years of sobriety in AA. Congratulations. And you? Well, it does. Look, I'm in recovery. I just passed 32 years of sobriety in AA. Congratulations. And so, yeah, thank you. Greatest thing that ever happened to me, getting my act together and focusing on getting things done and turning my life over to the higher power.

With that said, yeah, I think they're going to go at people right now, Drew, to get at them in ways it's hard for them to respond without compromising their integrity or their program. I've met RFK. I actually was going through security at the White House to meet with the Trump administration. He was there in line ahead of me, and I talked to him briefly. So I think this is designed to get at him in a way and revenge for him endorsing Trump. And Mark Robinson, Mark Robinson right now is going through some of that stuff before the show. I looked at some of the feeds on that. They're going at him in such a way it's very difficult for him to respond. Whether he did it or not 15 years ago, the idea that he posted something in some chat room on the scale of the Bill Clinton scale of sexual deviance. Misconduct.

Yeah, well, it's like both of these are like two or three versus a 10 being Bill Clinton. So I'm just saying, I think that these things are vengeance based on operations by the folks inside who have this information. Again, this is just the anti-Trump world? Yeah. No, it's more than that. This permanent administrative state that you see existing, Obama's part of it, I think. You've got people who come in and out of the governance.

I think it's all about political power. It's those, and by the way, there's some Republicans on this too. I think it's why the left and right thing doesn't really work anymore because there's some Republicans who are very happy to be second fiddle because they still get benefit out of it. Members of Congress, it's hard to get members of Congress to do anything. I was sitting in with my member of Congress when I became a whistleblower. And just before I talked to him, he was out slamming whistleblowers. He was actually slamming legislation to stop. And he was saying, what can I do to help you? So I'm just telling you that there are forces within the government

which want to protect the government. And you've been around a long time. You understand how organizations work. After a certain point in time, organizations become more focused on self-sustainment than doing the mission they were designed to do. And I think you have a federal Leviathan who have this kind of combination of people with spooky skills like me, motivation based on money, and political power that motivates them to do that. And people, I'm going to say it, I don't want to get you in trouble, but they leave the reservation, they decide to be independent. And the moment you do that, Tulsi Gabbard faced it. She's now in the Tulsi, Tulsi and I are friends. She's on the watch list because she dared do things against the administrative

state. RFK had this operation against him, Mark Robinson. I think it's about, I don't even know if it's formally organized, but there are forces there that work together very closely to essentially extract revenge at the price of freedom if you decide to do something. Wow. Brett Weinstein has been calling it the, I think he calls it the Leviathan. Caleb, am I remembering what he called it? Something like that.

And it is a monstrous Leviathan, no matter how you carve it up. Yeah, I'm surprised that those centralized fans, the fans of the centralized government don't know that Louis XIV invented that and the Jacobins took it over and invented totalitarianism. And then when they really went out of hand, they became very concerned with public safety and health. And the Committee for Salut Public, the Robespierre's committee for public safety began the terror and carried out the terror. So you don't have to study history very deeply

to see the patterns and to kind of look at, think about which side you want to be a part of. Well, think about the very thing. They also created something called Marplots. Marplots was a creation of that time, which is useless bureaucrats. Just saying. Because you have this basic, this big government, which is sucking up resources constantly and doing very little. I would argue, shut the government down and see what happens.

I think most Americans wouldn't even notice it for the most part because so much of it is detached from our daily lives. Yeah, absolutely. For sure. I mean, Musk is going to be the czar of efficiency in the government. It'll be interesting to see what he comes up with if he has that chance. The other thing was P. Diddy. Does that feel like an intelligence involved in some way with that, do you think? I mean, it certainly sounds like Epstein-esque to the non-informed viewer.

Yeah. So as a retired military case officer, I focused on the military. We were doing special operations things. With that said, CIA does engage in operations where they will use operatives and they will go to the private sector to recruit agents of influence, if you will, Daruda, I think use a term that people understand. And look, let's face it, if P. Diddy had a party and you had someone you wanted to maybe, oh, I don't know, get in bed with an underage girl, you may want to get it on video. Gee, next thing you know, that's blackmail material. And if that was directed

by someone, then that becomes essentially a tool to use to manipulate that person. So do I believe that that happened? I don't know specifics, but the Epstein issue regarding his using Epstein Island, the way that people go about being compromised, people are human. And they have their vulnerabilities. And I think, and by the way, the term is called brownstoning, where they actually have intelligence officers using underage women trying to get senior officials, prominent businessmen into bed with underage people, getting it on video and using it for purposes of manipulation. So you kind of wonder sometimes when people say and do things

after they seem to be going against their own interests, why they do that. I think that some of these things may lead back to those events if you trace it back for it. What is the history of that term, brownstoning? I'm just curious. So you've heard the term honeypot, right? The idea of getting someone in bed with someone, that's an old intelligence term. Well, honeypots happen all the time. Look it's happened with the FBI, there's been several FBI agents who were compromised by sleeping with spies.

I think maybe a guy named, what was that guy's representative out there in California, supposedly stuck with a Chinese spy, Swalwell, Eric Swalwell? Yes. That's a traditional honeypot. Some hot chick thinks that, hey, you're an older guy and you're hot. And he's like, oh, I'm hot. And next thing you know, you're going out on your wife and doing things. That's a traditional honeypot. A brownstoning operation is much more sophisticated where you might have first stage honeypot, you get someone in bed and then you start putting them down a path to more and more get them stuck in situations which obviously are compromising. Once you're compromised, obviously, that becomes an issue that's usable. And again, I know we've done this against foreign targets.

What we do, I've recruited individuals in our country. Our job is to lie, cheat, steal, gain intelligence from people who know that if they're working for us, for US intelligence, they could be in jeopardy. Yeah, we do things sometimes nicely. We can recruit people based on what their needs are. We can do it the hard way. And we are spies. That's our job. But the question about P. Diddy and what happened there, man, oh man, Drew, I would be curious to see what comes out over the next few weeks as more and more is revealed, because I think you might find a nexus between intelligence agencies and what he was doing. I mean, a thousand containers of lube, that's a lot of lube. And man, I may spread that around quite a bit.

It's a lot of lube. That was kind of a striking observation, this whole thing. But yeah, when you said we can do it the hard way, you're sounding a little Pelosi-esque there. What I find, that whole story. Yeah, I have no vodka on me right now, just Sanger. So paint for me the picture going forward. How do you think things are going to play out?

What worries you? How are you able to sleep at night? Just as we sort of wrap things up here, put me in a, well, either help me be alert to what's likely to come or help me put me in a mind frame where I also can sleep at night. Well, like you, I stay healthy, enjoy life, have a sense of humor. Whatever's going to

happen is going to happen. One of the philosophies my old boss gave me is if you can't control it, don't let it worry you. But with a serenity prayer to actually do the things you can to make a difference, and that's what you're doing, that's what I'm trying to do. The question becomes, what will the other side do? And look, they've taken two shots. I mean, think about this. It's extraordinary that there's been two assassination attempts against the presumptive nominee or the nominee of a party who may be the next president in a little over a month. And nobody seems to know that that's extraordinary. And I think as we get closer, because Trump has said he's going to come in and change things,

and I think he is a free speech guy. I talked to him about a month and a half ago at Chesapeake, Virginia. I do believe, based on my experience with him, he's going to change things. He's going to try to pick people this time who will come in and try to cut back the bureaucracy. But that's the issue. The federal bureaucracy, the 700 officers who signed that list, including seven of the 51 who signed the Hunter Biden hard drive Russia disinformation thing. They're all afraid because change would come. That change would result in them being removed from power, positions of power and authority.

And that's what they're afraid of. So the question becomes, how desperate are they and how will that desperation translate into action? And I kind of knew you might ask this question. Do you and I believe that the federal government would do something to be provocative, to ratchet up, to create some sort of a national emergency or do something to interfere with the election? They've already done it. Well, so a guy named Tom Ridge, you might remember he was the first Homeland Security secretary. He wrote a book, The Test of Our Times. And he admitted in that book, and I talked to Tom about this because I was at one of his book signings.

He was directed by George Bush 43 to turn up the terror alert at certain times because it was politically expedient to what they wanted to achieve. So I'm just asking, yeah, so if people are willing to do that for political points, what do you think they'd be willing to do if the whole shooting match may be a jeopardy regarding their sustainment of power, authority, and prestige. I don't know. I think we all have to be worried. And I do like what Jeremy was talking about, which is aggregating common interest. And I will call upon you,

should I need help in maintaining my focus on protecting free speech. That has become an easy target for me. Everything else is a little confusing that is not um but tony thank you so much for being here again kelly put the book up book up he needs he's still getting residuals so you can still still with caleb that's right yeah i have a quick question about that so you were talking about the honeypot operations and things like that being run by intelligence agencies what department of the intelligence agency is setting up the infrastructure for that? You're having to find women and then for some cases, finding underage girls to be part of these honeypots. So who's organizing that?

Great question. So the FBI, CIA have engaged in honeypot operations. They just do. Now, how they do it, and I think Drew answered that question, they go to outside third parties like Puff, what's his name now? Puff Daddy? P. Diddy. P. Diddy. They go to people like that and they say, hey, I'm with the FBI. Would you be willing to cooperate with our operation? That's how they do it. Or Epstein. Epstein, I think, was being paid a lot of money by the federal government for purposes of doing this sort of thing as a third party. That way you've got what we call plausible deniability. Oh, we didn't do that. We just

happened to be there with the camera and we were told to go do something. So remember, much of what they do, Caleb, is trying to not have their fingerprints directly on things. You're not going to find any fingerprints on the RFK operation, but you have to remember that people can come in with a badge and say, hey, we want you to do this. And if they got dirt on you, you're probably going to cooperate. Just saying. Yeah, I get it. And then you won't talk about it because you don't want the dirt getting out on yourself,

so you're stuck. That's right, yeah. That's right. That makes sense. So, Caleb, when they show up for you, you have to be careful. There's a lot of dirt out there, my friend. I'm lucky. There's zero dirt on me.

I'm fine. I'll laugh at them like Jeremy did. I'll be like, what's your full name? Come back with a warrant. I want to know if Obama's going to get canceled. Oh, Susan is convinced that former President Obama is going to have some sort of, that some of this may be directed towards him and there could be a cancellation heading his way.

Well, I've said publicly several times that he approved the Russia collusion narrative. If you remember, Susan Rice, the National Security Advisor, wrote a memo, I think it was like the 9th or 10th of January saying, we did nothing wrong. And I've talked to folks who were familiar with that decision. Obama personally had to approve the FISA warrant exceptions. And by the way, Jeremy was correct. The FBI can't just show up and say we wanna talk to you. They have to have a predicate. They have to have a reason, something that says we really need to talk to you. And in the case of where you want to do that without, Mike Flynn was a US citizen, a bunch of other folks were US citizens.

And you have to go to the White House, to the presidential level to get a waiver from doing to be able to avoid that requirement. I know because I've had to go to the White House to get those approvals at times. And to get that approval is extraordinary and it has to be waived by someone up to and probably the president himself because that was extraordinary. And there are restrictions which prevents, theoretically, us being spied on by our three-letter agencies. But there are waivers and those waivers can be had by the president and the White House. Tony, thank you so much. I hope to talk to you again very soon. Good luck with the book and all your work.

And I really appreciate talking to you and you're sharing your thoughts with us. And it's been enlightening. Thank you, Tony. Thank you, sir. Again, Tspooky with underscore between each letter, T-S-P-O-O-K-Y, follow him on X. And do get the book.

What's that, Susan? Doing it right now. Doing it right now. Good, she's going to follow him. Excellent. I am good. I'm fine.'s going to follow him. Excellent. You are. I am. Good. I'm fine.

I want to follow him for sure. So let's put the upcoming guests up here. We've got Lisa Logan and Penelope Ann Miller. Both can be great guests. Penelope Ann Miller, I was looking at her IMDb. She's been in everything. And Lisa Logan, I was watching some videos with her. She's interesting stuff.

Alex Jones, August 9th. Robert Malone, August 10th. Robert Malone, August 10th. Andrew Grohl, August 15th. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Look, Marsha's not to be stopped. Scott Atlas and Dr. Darshan Shah. These are all really, really exceptional guests.

So I hope you'll stay with us. Do tell a friend. Do subscribe at Rumble. Do support the people that support us so we can keep doing this thing. Caleb, any last minute thoughts before I wrap this up? Nope. I'm very excited, as everyone knows, for Alex Jones coming up. I grew up in Austin. You can jump in. You can jump in with me and all that. I grew up in Austin, Texas where he started. So I have very early childhood memories of being in my dad's truck and hearing this blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,

yelling, and it was Alex. His classic Alex. Interesting. Tomorrow we'll be here at 3 o'clock Pacific, 6 Eastern. On Thursday, Susan will take over at 2 o'clock Eastern. Yes, 2 o'clock Eastern. 2 o'clock earlier time Eastern. 11 o'clock Western.

And then I think next week, are we gone most of the week? It's kind of a weird week because we're going to be traveling. We're going to be visiting Caleb in the great state of Alabama. Yeah, we're excited. We're going to the Skank Fest, everybody. We have the Skank Fest in Las Vegas. We've got a lot of traveling to do. Yeah, the Skank Fest is next weekend in Vegas.

If anybody wants to go, be sure to go. It's a huge comedy festival with all these great comics from Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. Extraordinary. Next weekend, get your tickets. Get in there. Yeah, extraordinary.

Caleb, you've got to come some year if we manage to survive this one. All right, everybody, we'll see you tomorrow at 3 o'clock. Did I say who the guests are? No, you said it.

Lisa Logan and Penelope Ann Miller, and we'll see you tomorrow at 3 o'clock. Did I say who the guests are? No, you said it. Lisa Logan and Penelope Ann Miller, and we'll see you then at 3 o'clock Pacific. Ask Dr. Drew is produced by Caleb Nation and Susan Pinsky. As a reminder, the discussions here are not a substitute for medical care, diagnosis, or treatment. This show is intended for educational and informational purposes only. I am a licensed physician, but I am not a replacement for your personal doctor and I am not practicing medicine here. Always remember that our understanding of medicine and science is constantly evolving.

Though my opinion is based on the information that is available to me today, some of the contents of this show could be outdated in the future. Be sure to check with trusted resources in case any of the information has been updated since this was published. If you or someone you know is in immediate danger, don't call me.

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