Ask Dr. Drew - Winston Marshall: In Debate With Nancy Pelosi, Grammy Winner (Mumford & Sons) Tells Congresswoman She’s A Bigger Threat To Democracy Than “Populism” – Ask Dr. Drew – Ep 368

Episode Date: June 15, 2024

At an Oxford Union event, Grammy-winning musician Winston Marshall (cofounder of Mumford & Sons) opposed Nancy Pelosi in a debate about whether “populism” is a threat to democracy – and told the Congresswoman that the real threats are coming from elites like her. What is “populism” and why do some people believe it’s such a threat to democracy? Dr. Drew and Winston Marshall discuss in this exclusive live interview. • SAFESLEEVE – Studies have shown that EMF radiation from your phone can be harmful. Try SafeSleeve’s cases made with lab-tested shielding technology that can block over 99% of RF and 92% of ELF radiation. Get 10% off with code DRDREW at https://drdrew.com/safesleeve Winston Marshall is a British musician, and a cofounder of Dissident Dialogues and 1573 Cigars. 14 years after cofounding the multiplatinum, Grammy-winning band Mumford & Sons, Winston publicly quit the group in 2021 after a wave of media controversy forced him to choose between his band brothers and his freedom of speech. Today, he is the host of The Winston Marshall Show on Rumble and Spotify. Read more at https://minstonmarshall.co.uk, follow Winston at https://x.com/mrwinmarshall, and watch his show at https://rumble.com/WinstonMarshall 「 SUPPORT OUR SPONSORS 」 Find out more about the brands that make this show possible and get special discounts on Dr. Drew's favorite products at https://drdrew.com/sponsors  • CAPSADYN - Get pain relief with the power of capsaicin from chili peppers – without the burning! Capsadyn's proprietary formulation for joint & muscle pain contains no NSAIDs, opioids, anesthetics, or steroids. Try it for 15% off at https://capsadyn.com/drew • PALEOVALLEY - "Paleovalley has a wide variety of extraordinary products that are both healthful and delicious,” says Dr. Drew. "I am a huge fan of this brand and know you'll love it too!” Get 15% off your first order at https://drdrew.com/paleovalley • TRU NIAGEN - For almost a decade, Dr. Drew has been taking a healthy-aging supplement called Tru Niagen, which uses a patented form of Nicotinamide Riboside to boost NAD levels. Use code DREW for 20% off at https://drdrew.com/truniagen • GENUCEL - Using a proprietary base formulated by a pharmacist, Genucel has created skincare that can dramatically improve the appearance of facial redness and under-eye puffiness. Get an extra discount with promo code DREW at https://genucel.com/drew • COZY EARTH - Susan and Drew love Cozy Earth's sheets & clothing made with super-soft viscose from bamboo! Use code DREW to save up to 30% at https://drdrew.com/cozy • THE WELLNESS COMPANY - Counteract harmful spike proteins with TWC's Signature Series Spike Support Formula containing nattokinase and selenium. Learn more about TWC's supplements at https://twc.health/drew 「 MEDICAL NOTE 」 Portions of this program may examine countervailing views on important medical issues. Always consult your physician before making any decisions about your health. 「 ABOUT THE SHOW 」 Ask Dr. Drew is produced by Kaleb Nation (https://kalebnation.com) and Susan Pinsky (https://twitter.com/firstladyoflove). This show is for entertainment and/or informational purposes only, and is not a substitute for medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Thank you for joining us this morning on this very special episode of Ask Dr. Drew. We are early all together here this morning to be able to accommodate our friend Winston Marshall, who is joining us from Great Britain. He's co-founder of Dissident Dialogues. He was now 14 years after co-founding Mumford & Sons, I think everyone's aware of that musician group and their multi-platinum and multi-Grammy winning band. He quit the group in 2021 after a wave of controversy forced him to choose between the band and freedom of speech. And you saw him, I believe it was the Oxford Club, taking on Nancy Pelosi in such a way that I thought to myself as I was listening to him express himself. This is somebody I must speak to and you must hear.

Susan, you have something to say on that? She's Pelosi, not Pelosi. Oh, I said, OK. So you see, it's early in the day. So God knows what my mouth will do. I did. I was thinking Nancy Pelosi. Who knows what I said?

But we're right back for more. Our laws as it pertained to substances are draconian and bizarre. A psychopath started this. He was an alcoholic because of social media and pornography, PTSD, love addiction, fentanyl and heroin. Ridiculous. I'm a doctor for f*** sake. Where the hell do you think I learned that? I'm just saying.

You go to treatment before you kill people. I am a clinician. I observe things about these chemicals. Let's just deal with what's real. We used to get these calls on Loveline all the time. Educate adolescents and to prevent and to treat. If you have trouble, you can't stop and you want to help stop it, I can help. I got a lot to say.

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In addition, Marshall has Cigars 1573, or you can follow him on X at 1573cigars. Podcast, The Winston Marshall Show on Rumble and YouTube, and I believe we are on the homepage of Rumble today. Rumble.com slash Winston Marshall with two L's. Substack, winstonmarshall.co.uk. And of course, he's on X as well at Mr. Wynn Marshall. Let's welcome Winston Marshall to the program.

Thank you for being here, sir. Dr. Drew, thank you for having me on your show. It is a great privilege. I've got a billion questions. Let me just start with, where did you grow up? What was your upbringing like? I'm not sure I've heard you speak about that. I'm a Londoner, born and bred part of London called Mortlake, which no one should know at all. There's no good reason. The only exciting thing to ever come out of Mortlake

actually is the first game of soccer ever played, the first official game of soccer. So I can claim, lay claim to being from the home of football, but I think that's a story for another day. I'm a Londoner, proud Londoner, proud Englishman. And I lived in your country for most of my 20s. So I love America very dearly. If I wasn't so patriotic, it would be my favorite country in the world. Thank you for using the name, moniker, soccer, so my American audience knows what you're talking about, not saying football,

because immediately people would have gotten confused. But be that as it may, did you go to college over here? I didn't. So I actually started, I was 19 when we founded Mumford & Sons. And we started touring immediately. Our first US tour was September 2008. Very interesting time, by the way, to do a first US tour because your astute listeners and viewers will remember

that that was the month the Lehman Brothers went bust. And it is also the height of the beginning of the crash, which I think might tie into our conversation later about populism. But I fell in love with your country. To be honest, I was in love with America ever since I first watched Forrest Gump as a boy. I think I must have watched that film 35 times every Christmas, several times over.

And it's just all the music that came out of your country. Everything from the kind of music I was playing. You know, the banjo is the all-American instrument. And technically, it's from the Caribbean. And it first came from the Caribbean. It didn't exist in Africa as the myth is. It was actually when slaves were finally given some spare time, not much, but some, they used that time to make music

and they had a collective memory of the instruments that they had in Africa. They didn't actually have any of those instruments. And the banjo emerged from there. And then it came to life really in America over the course of a couple of centuries and grew and one of the wonderful things about the banjo actually I should say and there's a great history or actually I've forgotten the bloody author it's a shame but it's an instrument that brings all people together. And there's a dark side to the instrument, which of course is its history coming out of slavery.

And that darkness continues later with the minstrel acts in the 19th century. But along the way, it was an instrument where poor whites and poor blacks would play together and it would bring those communities together. So that's one of the many gifts that America has given to the world. But, you know, America also invented techno music and garage and house and as well as hip hop and rap and rock and roll. It's you've given so much to us. I'm eternally grateful. And, you know, so I'm sort of rambling now, but I was in love with your… Well, let me just say that we have this uncanny phenomenology in this country, and you pointed at one specific historical thread, which is so much of our culture, particularly music, originates from our citizens of African descent who were often brought here or typically brought here. You mentioned five different forms of music there.

Four out of those five were from African-American communities. And we even rock and roll. And then we collectively, five of five? Okay, I wasn't sure if techno was. Techno was actually black music out of Detroit. Okay, so that's the only one i wasn't sure of the other ones i'm sure but we collectively like for i don't we forget it or we don't appreciate it or we don't thank people for that area and then we have this pattern where we do

it over and over and over again as someone who didn't grow up here do you have any insight into that insight into what sorry whyight into what, sorry? Why we do that? Why are we more explicit of the roots of so much of our popular music and grateful to our African citizens who have invented most of this stuff? Like rock and roll in particular was one that we just forgot came from African roots

and that forgetting I think is sort of weird. Well, and jazz, of course. For sure. My experience wasn't that it was forgotten. And one of the wonderful things, and I've sort of made this point, is it gets embraced by the whole of America. So yes, this music comes from certain communities in America, but it gets embraced.

And it's been a wonderful way to unite the country. And despite the banjo's past and origins, it is now thought of being a white hillbilly instrument. But that's absolutely completely not true. Maybe this illustrates your point. In fact, it's an instrument used to make fun of white working classes. But really, that's just not true. It's a really gracious instrument with a very noble history coming out of darkness, as I said, but uniting people. And hip-hop's done the same, and jazz has done the and blues has done the same and then there's a double aspect to it which is that these instruments come across the atlantic these stars of music come across the atlantic and we take it on and you know your culture has heavily influenced my country and we throw back bands like the beatles like the stones like zeppelin

and we continue to do so there's um it's You probably don't think much about us Brits, but we do look up to you now. Oh, no, listen, I am aware. I got involved in the radio business in the mid 80s. And at that point, there was the new wave, the British invasion. And I was reading a bit about it at the time. And British music critics were saying, oh, this is what we do in Britain.

We take your music, and we really do something with it. We make it better, and then we bring it back to you and distribute it across your markets. But we sort of make no bones about it that we're ripping it off. We just don't tell anybody. And I thought, oh, that's interesting. I never really thought about it that way. But it always comes back. What comes over is always better.

I'll grant that. So tell me about Dissident Dialogues. So Dissident Dialogues is a festival of ideas. We did that in New York. We held it in New York about a month ago. Headline debates included Richard Dawkins, the famous atheist, in a debate with Ayaan Hirsi Ali, who I don't know if your listeners know, but she was a famous new atheist, a very prominent new atheist. But before that, she was a Muslim. So she had a famous apostasy from Islam. And then just recently,

she has come to Christianity again. And this is something that I see. I don't see it on a societal scale, but I see it in a lot of philosophical and intellectual circles. There's a move called, I guess you might call it the new theist movement. And so I think, you know, Jordan Peterson might be a part of that, even if he doesn't say he's explicitly Christian. Russell Brand would be a famous recent convert. Anyway, the point is at Discipline Dialogues, we try and discuss the hot topics of the age and bring different minds together. So of course, we had to discuss the new atheism versus the new theism. We also had a panel on Palestine and Israel, which went very viral about a week ago between Brianna Joy, now formerly of

The Hill, alongside a young writer called Jake Klein, up against Eli Lake and Michael Moynihan, who the former is at the Free Press, Barry Weiss's Free Press, and the latter is of the Fifth Column podcast, and Konstantin Kissin of Trigonometry Hosting. And it was a very fiery debate, which I do encourage people to watch on YouTube. But there's sort of two objectives with dissident dialogues. Firstly, a lot of this thinking and stuff and debating, it happens online. And what I noticed when I was sort of thrown into this world is that I'm very social and I would meet a lot of these people. And I just sensed a real desire for community. And this is something I had in the music industry. You know, you can fall in love with a band or an artist and

you might be the only person you know who likes them, but you then go to the gig and you find a whole bunch of hundreds more who do like it. And you feel for a moment like you're part of community so i wanted to create that um another um aspect uh to it was that in the idea space in the festival space there seems to have been a capture of certain ideas festivals by an ideology a famous example of this would be the american writer Coleman Hughes, who recently published a book called, I think it's called The End of Race Politics. And he spoke at TED, perhaps the most famous of these types of events. And it was a speech arguing against or arguing for a colorblind society. And he wrote about this for the Free Press, and he described how the people working behind the scenes tried to censor the speech and not have it published for ideological reasons. They didn't want those ideas out. So when that happened,

I thought, okay, well, there's probably space here to do a festival where that's not the case. Now, it's also keen that this doesn't become some sort of quote-unquote anti-woke festival or the antithesis of those types of progressive festivals. Rather, the aim, the dream is to bring diverging and opposite opinions together for synthesis, for actually be a true place of diversity of opinion. So that's kind of a couple of the feelings behind this. And I would say also that over the last few years, there's been a lot of talk of self-censorship and a lot of talk of cancel culture. If it is true that talented people are canceled and the market doesn't care, then if we build new businesses and new infrastructure,

those should be successful businesses. So my mind is to try and build institutions and businesses that are safe from such forces to nurture talent and, I guess, foster community as well. So there's a few different motives going on there. And that's part of a couple of different projects I'm on at the moment. That is so fascinating to me, because this is where we have found ourselves, which was during, and by the way, while I'm saying this, Caleb, if you could ask Emily or Emily, if you could text me or somebody, what our publishing friend's name is, I forget the name of the publishing house that is sort of in

this world of parallel economies, which is during the COVID, I felt like I was the French underground, just quite, you know, sending stuff out on YouTube about, really, I felt like I was the French underground, just sending stuff out on YouTube. Really, I kept saying, this must have been like what the French underground felt like. We were having forbidden conversations about sacred topics that you weren't allowed to touch just to try to make sense of things for people. I didn't have a point of view. I had ideas as a physician, but I was just trying to make sense of things. And that grew into, oh my God, these guys like

Jay Bhattacharya, they silence him? He's a brilliant physician. I got to talk to that guy. See, he must know something. There must be something I can learn from him. And oh my God, that opened a whole world of people, and you said talent, that have something to say and from whom we can learn. Skyhorse. Skyhorse Publishing is the publishing company. Then I've met Skyhorse Publishing people who, when people get their books published, Skyhorse steps, excuse me, when people get their books canceled, Skyhorse steps in and goes, hey, we'll publish you. And they have a huge audience and a huge group of wonderful authors. And what you're doing, it's like we, and then the wellness company is a bunch of doctors getting together saying, hey, people we've got to help people get ready, empower patients. I think we need a CES, like a convention for people in these, what should we name this thing? What should we call it? This nurturing economy? What do we call it? Yeah. Well, it's worth mentioning, actually, seeing as we're on Rumble, one of the most,

Rumble obviously for being a counter video stream, but this is actually the real power of rumble. I think, well, the real interesting play with rumble is that they building a counter internet service because most of the internet runs on the Amazon service. Now, if this might be quite complex for new people who are new to all of this,

and it was to me, but the important example is what they did to parlor, uh, the app and how they managed to completely snub it out and it's very important that we have counter video um platforms to counter when youtube censor and youtube do censor we know that they censor but having such a thing for the internet more broadly speaking is so we can build proper online uh websites onto in a in a safe place that we know we're not going to lose things exactly like they didn't that's uh very important but this also goes for social media and thank god for elon musk

buying and exposing what happened to twitter um you know all of these platforms honestly we're not these aren't free places and and so it's it's not just a matter it's it's i guess it's it's it's almost fundamental to our own freedoms to to to build these these new places but i am yeah things will come from it yeah i mean you're it's so odd to me it's such bizarre i i mean that through the looking glass completely with the idea that defending free speech is revolutionary or counter-revolutionary. I don't know what that is. And that somebody from Great Britain has to be there defending American free speech. I do believe we fought a revolution against you guys in order to have free speech. I believe that's the history. And so this is so odd. If people could just stop for a

second and think about how bizarre and odd this is and how important free speech is for progress of science, progress of ideas, progress of economies. So we're really talking about free speech, aren't we? That's really what we're talking about, defending free speech. It's been so peculiar to me that free speech, that progressives have abandoned their free speech principles. And we're seeing it a little bit come back now when it comes to Palestine. Suddenly, cancel culture is a real thing. Suddenly, it's something they care about, except we've all been saying this for years. So it's very, yeah, it's absolutely

fundamental. And you say it's strange that a British person should be defending this. If America falls, we all fall. We need this country. It's the greatest country. It's a gift from God. And things fall, I would say, for my country, and this might sound lofty but i don't want to be the generation where england fell where britain fell and it takes all the power what's the quote from alice in the wonderland or the red queen it takes all the uh running in the world to stay in the same position it takes yeah you really it's fine it's a responsibility it's our duty to man up and protect this civilization and i know that sounds lofty, but I really, I think people have forgotten how fragile these things are. I certainly did.

I never imagined this would be at my age, at this point in my career, this would be the sort of thing I would be, let alone doing, but even concerned with. It was a matter of fact. It was just part of the, it was like, you know, trying to explain to a fish what water is. It was just, it was always around. It was not something, something I absolutely took for granted. And I, when it started getting threatened, I immediately knew it. It's just, you have to stand up for it. You must. It's a really critical piece. Have they tried to censor you? Oh, many. Oh, yes.

I've been through multiple gauntlets. Not only was I censored early in COVID for saying, hey, everybody, calm down. My original message was just calm down. Just calm down. And I was saying at that time, listen to the CDC. Listen to Dr. Fauci. I've worked with these guys for years. They will guide us through this.

Little did I know they would get adulterated, but okay. And of course I was canceled in such a way that everyone made all my warnings about panicking being bad. They cut off the part where I said, follow the CDC, which is the only thing I got wrong. The not panicking was right. We should not have been panicking. And the hysteria was the problem. And now I've become completely preoccupied with why and how hysteria has happened and why we were all victim. But the whole world, the whole damn world got into it. That's so bizarre. I understand why we got into it. I get our psychology. The whole world fell back into it. But I would argue that it's very much what you were putting your finger on,

which as goes America, goes the world. Oh, yeah, absolutely. I was reminded of this hysteria on Sunday. There was a baptism at my Sunday service at church. And I remembered that during COVID, because of the six feet rule, there was images of a baptism where they had to spray with a water. Let's qualify. Made up six feet rule. Fantasy six feet rule. Let's qualify. Six feet rule so called. Fauci admitted last week that it was arbitrary.

So, you know, they say. But I, but, but, but Marjorie Winston, I found that out two years ago talking to Alexander, Paul Alexander, who was in the room, who was around when they made that decision. And he alerted me two years ago that it was completely made up. And he, I think it was Redfield. Why isn't this the big story? Why is this not the big story? It's the big story. It should be a scandal.

It should be a scandal of international proportion. Why did we follow those assholes? Why did we do that? What was going on in our heads? And where's the mainstream media now reporting on it? This massive lie where they say, trust the experts, trust the experts, trust the experts. The experts admit that they're making it up. They literally admit that.

That should be on the front page, the BBC, the CNN, MSNBC, all the mainstream media. But of course, they ignore. Why? Because they're complicit. Because they parroted all of that stuff without challenging it at the time if you were to admit it it would be to meet admit their journalistic failure i i don't want to jump into this i'm just gonna i'm just gonna put this in out of context no i'm with you because i want to talk about i want to talk about that i want to talk about populism but i i but I draw all of this back to the Jacobins and

the French revolution. So 1790 was to me where this all started. And I was listening to a lecture, a French historian just yesterday who was saying, he was going, well, you know, the journalists back then, they were parroting this stuff from the Jacobins and they weren't journalists like we think of them. They're more like opinion writers. I thought, oh no, no, that's how I think of journalists now. That's who they are here. That's now what they did in 1790. They are doing now. And certainly they did in 1910, Russia. It's the same damn thing. We need our journalists back to do their damn jobs, not what they think they're doing. Do your effing job. But before we go to break, listen, I know you're jacked up about that. I can see it in your body

movement, but I want to get into populism. I want to get in populism before we go to break because we're on the heels of a bunch of elections. And Macron has liquefied his government or whatever he did to it. Stop, which we in here don't understand what that means or how that happens. But he so what's happening? What's going on in the EU? What's going on in France? What should we think about populism? Give me a little primer on that. We'll go to break and then we'll come back with that after the break. than that. So they've just had the European elections where the Marine Le Pen's right-wing

party have done very well. And Macron has called this snap election, but I think it's a gamble to win. Because if you look into it, all of the Marine Le Pen's parties, you need quite a lot of money to run an election. And so because of these recent elections, Le Pen's bank accounts are going to be completely depleted. And there's a law in France where the banks can't lend you the money unless you're a centre-right or centre-left party, and she's not considered that. So I think it's a cynical play to actually have them ruined because they won't be able to afford to it. However, if they still win, I think it's a double cynicism in which Macron is counting on Le Pen completely losing or having a disastrous 12 months, at which point after 12 months he can then call another assembly. So anyway, I'm getting into sort of the weeds on French politics there. But there is a more pan-European thing that's going on right now in my country. The story is that the Conservative Party, after 14 years, have been a total and utter disaster

for the country. They've raised taxes to the highest they've been since the war. Nothing works. There's a housing crisis. Young people haven't got a chance to start a life or build families or have kids or even really afford homes. Sounds like here. Yeah. The Labour Party, no one's actually really, there's not much evidence that people are moving to the Labour Party. All it just seems is that people, it's like a none of the above election. So no one, or you just, the Tory support is completely slumped. The people who are voting for Labour, it's kind of just, there's no new voters, it's just their base. And they're going to win very convincingly, it seems. Now, alongside this, there's a populist movement

outside of the Uni Party, because I see that the leader of the Labour Party, Sir Keir Starmer, is a technocrat as much as Rishi Sunak is. He's slightly more pro-Davos. He said last week he was a socialist. He's openly a progressive. He's definitely pro-EU, unlike Rishi, who was a leaver. But essentially, they're the same unit party, which I think is similar to your country. There's a populist movement here in this country. So a lot of the hard left are leaving Labour and going to the Green Party.

Then there's the Workers' Party, a guy called George Galloway, who's a populist in Rochdale. But the big talking point is the Reform Party, which is led by Nigel Farage, a friend of Trump's. And he looks like he's going to win a seat in parliament in a small town called Clacton in East England. And he's basically taking more traditional conservative values. The conservatives themselves have failed to be conservative. And so he's basically trying to be the example of what the conservatives were. He's basically a localist. He is, you know, in this country, we have 700,000 net migrants a year in a country of 65 million people.

Now, that does a lot of damage to the country in terms of the economy. It hurts working people. We've seen a huge increase in crime. We've had a huge issue of Islamism, quite regularly Islamist attacks and Islamist murders happening in this country. And in fact, the Islamists are threatening parliamentarians from doing their job. So that's a serious issue. If you don't believe me, look up Mark Freer, the Tory MP who's standing down because of Islamist threats to his job. Look up Sir David Amess, who was an MP murdered by an Islamist a couple of years ago.

All of these things, rising crime, social cohesion is going down the pan. This is because of immigration. But none of the Uniparty are able to talk about it because of political correctness. Farage has no such. And we're seeing a similar thing across Europe where the globalist left slash right, because I don't think it's a left-right thing, I think it's a globalist worldview, have allowed immigration and never at any point discussed

what the downside of immigration is. Now, if you want to talk about immigration, I'm not actually anti-immigration. My girlfriend's an immigrant, my mother's an immigrant. I'm not anti-immigration. My girlfriend's an immigrant. My mother's an immigrant. I'm not anti-immigration. However, it is utterly dishonest to promote immigration without at least dealing with and contending with the downsides of immigration.

And I'm certainly against illegal immigration. And I'm certainly against mass immigration, which are just making all of these crises, the housing market, the housing crisis, the pressure on our welfare system, all of these things are made far, far worse by uncontrolled immigration. And that's happening across Europe. So that's one of the big things going on. But it's a slightly different story in each country. So it's not entirely uniform what's going on. But I am aware of that. And I can see it from over here, that it seems like what has got the sort of growing awareness that something is desperately wrong is the immigration experience

of what immigration is doing. Not immigration per se, but what it's doing. And I noticed in France, I've got to take a break in a second, and when we get back, I want to talk about populism and your definition of it and your little interaction with Nancy Pelosi. But I have had my eye on France for a little while because when I listen to some lecturers from their intellectuals,

I can tell what they're struggling with is what does it mean to be French? And I thought, oh, they're opening up the history books again and looking at things that they have condemned for 200 years and going, now, wait a minute. This stuff is part of who we actually are, of our culture. We need to own all this. And I thought, that's motivated by the fact that they're worried that what they are is going to get diluted by immigration.

They're worried it's going to go away. And I thought, that's going to create a populism movement. I noticed this about two years ago, and lo and behold, Marie Le Pen comes on in. So what we will do, we are going to be back with Winston Marshall again. You can follow him at Mr. Wynne Marshall. Wynne is W-I-N, yes, on X.

And the, oh, I've got the, what's the dissident podcast? What's the name of it again? Dissident Dialogues. Dissident Dialogues. Check that out. We're going to take a little break. We are very fortunate, as I always tell you guys, please support the people of Swordus. We're very lucky to have really, really quality people and quality products.

We got one new one from Rumble that I'm really excited about that I'll tell you about after this break. I'll be back. And Caleb, on the way back in, if you wouldn't mind, maybe play the tape of populism and how its definition has changed from the little debate with Nancy Pelosi. And then we'll bring Winston back in to talk about that. Of course, I'm a fan of the healthy aging supplement, TruNiagen. I've been taking it almost for a decade myself. This supplement boosts NAD, which your cells need to survive properly

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Hey, Dr. Drew. Dr. Drew. You want to spend the whole session talking about Dr. Drew? There you go. Even you call him Dr. Drew. I haven't seen my friend Jim Jeffries in a while. I'm very excited also to welcome SafeSleeve. This was founded by two California engineering grads who wanted to educate

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Use promo code Dr. Drew. Let me tell you one more time. So this thing, this one I've got on is actually a wallet. And the phone comes off. And there's a case that they give you for the phone if you want to just carry the phone by itself away from this super case, this super protecting wallet. Again, drdrew.com slash safe sleeve. All right, let's watch the video, if you don't mind, as I bring our friend Winston Marshall back of Winston taking on Nancy Pelosi on the topic of populism.

You may be thinking now that Trump is a populist. You are right, he didn't accept the 2020 elections, and he should have. So should Hillary in 2016, so should Brussels, and so should Westminster in 2016, and so too should Congresswoman Pelosi, instead of saying the 2016 election was, quote, hijacked. Quote, hijacked. Thank you. That doesn't mean that we don't accept the results of it. Okay. Splitting hairs, as you might say in your country, Winston. So she proves your point for you.

She makes your point and then doesn't understand that she's made the point. She doesn't get it. In one breath, she says that the election was hijacked. Oh, sorry. She said it was hijacked. She calls into question the legitimacy of the 2016 election. And then in the next breath says doesn't mean she doesn't accept the result of it. She doesn't understand that she is exactly what she accuses her opposition to be. The Democrats,

and she is really the personification of this, have done everything they can to undermine democracy. She's specifically referring to Russiagate, which has been thoroughly debunked. You know, there are people who still believe that there's a video of someone peeing on Trump. The person who came up with that, who was the source for the Steele dossier, has come out and said he made it up. And yet people still believe this. This is the power. People saw the Steele dossier.

They saw everything that came out around Russian interference and all the mainstream media pushing that narrative, which we know to be utterly debunked. The great journalist Matt Taibbi did a wonderful job of exposing Hamilton 68 group, Hillary Clinton's involvement. All of this stuff was made up intentionally to delegitimize Trump as president. And yet here we have Pelosi claiming that she does accept the election and yet also says it's illegitimate.

Meanwhile, spends every day of every hour saying that Trump doesn't accept the election. And my personal position, which you may disagree with, is that Trump should have accepted the 2020 election. But my personal position is that he also did as much as Pelosi did. He called into question his legitimacy just as Pelosi did, just as Hillary did, just as the British and European did over Brexit. And for me, it's very frustrating. But if you want to look at which party has done more to undermine democracy and what is needed for a healthy democracy, it's absolutely the Democrats.

It's not to say that the Republicans' hands are clean. They are not. Neither is Trump's. However, the Democrats have been absolutely appalling trying to take Trump off the ballot in both Maine and Colorado. That doesn't even begin to talk about what happened in New York this last month in the court case there. It's a disgrace. But here's my insight, which I think you might find interesting, because I had dinner with Pelosi and her team before the debate. So I got a little glimpse into their worldview, into their mind. Now, Pelosi was very sweet with all the other students at the Oxford Union. She was doing photographs with them. She's very nice on a simple surface level kind of way. And I found her almost quite human and gentle. But when you talk to them,

they are so convinced that Trump is Hitler and Trump is the enemy of democracy. They genuinely believe they need to save democracy. And that is what they're doing. They're undermining democracy in order to save democracy. And in so doing, completely blind to their own behavior. It's an odd derangement. They're trapped in their own web of deceit, I guess. But they believe it. So one of the things is, is she a liar?

Well, you might say she's a liar and she's certainly inconsistent with a lot of her politics and a massive hypocrite politically. But I actually got the impression she really believes this. And maybe she's said it so often that she's forced herself to believe it. But it was like meeting someone who lives in another dimension or has a different concept of reality. Yeah, it is interesting, isn't it?

In fact, a couple things uh one was i i you know worry about myself because that the bad orange man i don't react to him i don't i'm not a enthusiast and i'm not deranged i i just sort of he's a politician he's running for office good uh and to see everybody on both sides react the way they do to him is extremely confusing and mysterious to me. So I've been studying it a bit, trying to parse it apart and understand it. And one of the things, you know, anyone who listens to my threads knows I've had my eye on the French, and I've told you that this morning already. But one of the things that, or this evening where you are, that I would listen to a French psychoanalyst say, and he goes, you have to be really aware that narcissism is pervasive. And when you hear a real narcissist say, you are, what you must hear is, I am.

And I thought, oh, that's it. That's the projection. They are so in their, deranged, you've called it. It's delusional, if you want to call it. But their defensive, their narcissistic defense structure causes them to see their internal disavowed feelings and impulses and beliefs out there. An external locus of control. And so they have to fix it out there in order to fix it in here. So when they say you are, you can be sure it is in fact, I am.

I'll illustrate your point because I think it's a very good one. Look at how they treated race relations over the, and they have done over the last 10 years, but certainly over the last four, they keep saying America is systemically racist. They keep saying white people are racist. Now, actually, I think they say that because they themselves are racist. In their head, they are viewing everyone in terms of race so that it's inconceivable to them that other people don't think like that.

I think that that's genuinely one of the factors. And in fact, if you read the famous book by D'Angelo, White Fragility, she basically admits that. And that's how they are. So a lot of this narcissistic stuff about everyone. In fact, you could even see it with what happened with the Supreme Court case ruling against Asian Americans being discriminated at elite schools like Harvard. they are positively discriminating in their head. This is how they see the world. That's why in my speech, in my debate with Pelosi, five times she accused American conservatives, not just MAGA, not just Trump supporters, all conservatives, i.e. half the country, and she used the word ethno-nationalist.

She used it five times in the speech, and then she topped it off with a cherry of ethnic negativity. She keeps calling half of America racist because she can't, firstly, she doesn't have the humility to engage with their actual issues and problems and concerns, but also probably because she's a racist. That's probably what's going on inside. She can't conceive that there are other ways to see the world apart from racist lenses. Or maybe she's not. Obviously, it's opinion, but that's the impression I get. Yeah. No, I think you're right. By the way, while we were speaking, Hunter Biden was found guilty on his gun charges,

which was inescapable, apparently. But he'll get a slap on the wrist and then he'll get, then he'll all get dismissed when his father leaves office. Watch. And then Trump will go to jail. That's what will, in fact, happen.

I'll tell you something funny about Hunter Biden. Go ahead, please. I did a Christmas song 18 months ago about Hunter Biden called Rudolph's Laptop. It was how Rudolph ruined Christmas or Santa because of this laptop that got leaked. Anyway, all of the music, not all of the music press, some of the music press came after me with all these hit jobs saying that the laptop in this song is as real as the real Hunter Biden laptop. Now, even by that point, the New York Times had conceded that it was a real laptop. But even forget the New York Times, we've all seen the photographs of Hunter Biden in the red scarf and the white briefs.

We've seen all the photos, the videos of him weighing crack cocaine with various people in the background. I did not describe what type of people. And even though there's all this footage of actually stuff from the Hunter Biden laptop, you still will see people like Pelosi and still you'll see Democrats act as if it doesn't exist. Like it's not real. Like it's disinformation. This ties back really in the confirmation about Russian disinformation. Oh, the Biden laptop's disinformation. Well, where on earth did those photographs come from? Where on earth did those videos come from? And yet the same people believe there's a buyer there's a trump piss video so even though there's no evidence of the trump piss video they believe that but they don't believe in

the hunter biden laptop even though there's all the videos and this is why i can't so it's it's crazy making yeah it's crazy and that's what i've become preoccupied with lately is what what is this delusional derangement syndrome? I talked to a couple of psychologists that wrote a book called The Trump Derangement Syndrome. I don't know if it's out yet. I have the manuscript right here. And it's all the stuff we've been talking about. And they were great.

And they looked for their book, get their book. I think it's already in pre-order. It was already leading the charts. And this is a thing. There is a psychological thing going on where people are literally in a deranged state. And it's the 20% of humans that become hypnotized. It's so funny.

I saw Amber Rose yesterday on an interview. TMZ was going, you know what? I'm not voting for Biden because I'm no longer hypnotized. And I thought, oh no, brainwashed. She said brainwashed. And I thought, oh, she's so right. In fact, everybody, I want to- I want to get her on the show. I want her on the show too. I absolutely. And I was like, I want to find out how she got unhypnotized because that's our goal. Our goal is to expand the population of people that stand up and say, bullshit, stop, stop everybody. We got to stand up for this. And the 20% that is so deranged and delusional, how do we get them out of it? That really needs

to be our job going forward. My question to you, though, is- Well, can I ask you a question? Please, go ahead. So if Trump wins, can America survive the reaction to Trump from within America? Because we could talk about Trump's foreign policy, which I thought was absolutely superb. And you could talk even about his policy. But you remember when he was last president, what was the reaction to it? I didn't like it.

The BLM riots. It was me too. All of that stuff. It was all the DEI stuff came back. All of that stuff was a reaction. I think it was a visceral reaction to Trump. Now, it might come repackaged because some of these ideas like DEI have been almost defeated. And so it might come back with new words and new institutions, new ideas, new policy. But can America survive what the backlash will be

to him as president by those who suffer TBS? I've been very worried about that. It was not pleasant when he was last president. That's when I was shaking my head trying to understand what was going on here, what was happening. But I'm going to say something that I did not expect to say when a thought popped into my head as you asked that question. So it's going to depend on the magnitude. If he wins, he would have to win by a lot for this to be something that doesn't cause a big problem. And what it will really depend on is by who supports him. So we started this conversation talking about how this country follows the African-American culture. If black men in a substantial way support him, I think that will make a huge, huge difference in how this is digested. That's number one.

And then number two, the other group that I noticed, oh, it's funny you put that right up. That's so funny, Caleb. You threw that right up there. This is a video that I noticed. Oh, it's funny you put that right up. That's so funny, Caleb. This is a video that I just recently saw coming up on X, and it was interviews that some interviewers went down to Compton and interviewed people on the streets about if they're going to be supporting Trump. Oh, you saw this. But the other group, yeah, the other group is

Silicon Valley. And we're seeing that to begin to shift as well, but I don't think that shift is quite as dramatic. So it's interesting. I'm going to sit like you and I almost feel like... Go ahead. Can you explain to me why that specific graphic of black men supporting Trump is crucial?

Because I don't expect black women to at all. And black men has helped establish our cultural uh beachheads they they are they are they set up the cultural their omaha beach for our culture uh and we follow them i i really and you we talked about it at the beginning as it pertains to music and other things i i do i do think that could be a real thing i i don't know. It's not for me to say. As a white man, I'm an immigrant too, but I'm acutely aware of my Eurocentric kind of stuff. But yeah, it'll be interesting. I don't know how else other than just ride through it because it's going to be a thing. I suspect you're right.

And the other question is who will work for him? Everyone's going to be afraid to be in his White House because of the backlash, and they'll never work anywhere else again. Unless there's a massive wave of support and unless people see what people are doing as somehow important or heroic or something. But I don't know that we're at all there at all. I don't see it. Let me go back to Nancy, if you don't mind, for a second. And Caleb, if you would queue up, I think it's clip one. I want to see where we talk about what populism is.

What did she think she was getting into? Because I thought you destroyed her. It's her mind. Did she think, oh, just debate some British musician. No big deal. I'll destroy him. What do you think she thought she was getting into? Well, she definitely had no idea who I was. She was mouthing at me whilst I was speaking, who are you? Who are you?

What I think she meant by that is, do you know who I am? Right. Well, that's that shift. That's that narcissistic thing. There it is. That's what that is. Right. Uh, so she didn't know if you want, it's really worth watching her speech, which is on the Oxford union YouTube channel, because I didn't know going into it, how robust her into her speech might be. And I would say, I was expecting, I was expecting, maybe she would have got a speechwriter in and done something serious. And by the way, there's some legitimate criticisms of populism to be had. Now, I consider myself a populist, but that's not to say that all political movements have problems. So I'd be very happy to engage with those problems.

And I thought I might get that. Instead, she gave the most cliched, predictable, it was almost a pastiche version of what you might think she would give. Writing off, as I said, Americans as racist. She probably couldn't actually define populism. And it might be worth doing that for your listeners now. Populism is the politics of ordinary people in contention with an elite. So politics is not a right or left wing thing. It's an up-down thing. Now, historically, populism originated in Kansas in the late 19th century. It was a populist movement. Actually, it was more Jeffersonian than it was Marxist. It had a lefty but kind of communitarian aspect to it.

And it's had different shapes and forms over the last century. But there are famous left-wing populists. In your country, it's Bernie. Bernie against the billionaires. Or now it's RFK Jr. against Big Pharma. Those are technically populists. But of course, Pelosi doesn't understand that. For Pelosi, populism is basically,

it's just a word used interchangeably with fascist, with far right. By the way, we're seeing this happen again in Europe now. Far right is just everywhere in the mainstream media. This is the only way they're able to code what is going on with the anti-globalist movement. Because modern populism, and it's different in different nations, because there are some left-wing populists, like

you might say what's going on in Mexico or what's going on in Venezuela, those are populist movements from the left. But there's right-wing populists. There's Bukele, there's Farage in the UK, there's Trump in your wonderful country. So there's different aspects to it. And a left-wing populist is usually economic, and a right-wing populist, it's usually cultural, but there's differences. By the way, if you want to get deep into this, the current populist movement generally across the world is anti-globalist.

It used to be the left who were anti-globalists. If you remember the battle for Central in 1999 against the WTO, that was essentially a progressive-led protest against globalization. And Pelosi actually historically has stood up against globalization, funnily enough, if you look at her record. But now it's been abandoned by the establishment entrenched political classes, and it has become the key issue for populists across the world from right and left. But the right-left thing, I think this is really key. People like Pelosi will intentionally try and use right-left to split the people, but it's not right-left, it's up-down. It's the people against these elites. And that's really important because they'll try and divide us. They'll try

and divide us as, you know, Bernie on that side, Trump on that side. And there's a reason. 25% of Bernie supporters did not go on to support Hillary, and half of that 25 went on to vote for Trump. These people, we are, you know, you Americans, you are one people. They want to split you right-left. That's just ideas about how to move things forward. But it's an up-down thing. I really think that's important to remember, that we don't want to buy into this right-left nonsense. Well, the reason is, I see it as clear as day as an old classical liberal, that back when Nancy Pelosi and myself were young,

college age, early in our careers, the up-down was those white men in their horn their horn rim glasses and their skinny ties and their white shirts don draper essentially those guys were the bad guys we were the good guys fighting against them to be free man we want to be free i and caleb i don't know if you have this peter fonda thing where he's standing in court going what is it you want to do and he goes you want to be free we want to ride we want to do we want to do man. We want to ride. We want to do what we want to do, man. I was like, well, that was us. Now they're the elite and they can't contend with the fact that they're now in the position that other people want to rebel against.

They cannot process that. They can't deal with it. I see it in the college administrators. I see it in the college professors. They're all, no, we're the good guys. We're now in control. This is what we've wanted this whole time. How could we be somebody that anybody's fighting against? Because it's the good guys. No, you're not the good guys. We're now in control. This is what we've wanted this whole time. How could we be somebody that anybody's fighting against?

Because it's the good guys. No, you're not the good guys anymore. You've become an ensconced, elite, moneyed class that are not willing to let go of power. And it is, frankly, disgusting. Let's do a little, let's do 30 seconds. Oh, there it is. Play it. Can you play it with the sound?

I can't hear it. Does the sound screw us up? Okay, here we go. Hold on. You'll love this. You've got to go back a little bit because he's already getting into it. We want to have a good time. What we want to do. To do what we want to do. We want to be free to ride. We want to be free to ride our machines without being hassled by the man. And we want to be free to ride our machines without being hassled by the man. And we want to get loaded.

That was apparently all ad-libbed. And he was talking to a white, old white guy who was a judge with a skinny black tie. That's who he's talking to. And that guy goes, what is it you want to do? He goes, we want to be left alone, man. We want to be free. And listen, you now, Nancy, and your friends are the ones limiting our freedoms. It's incredible.

It's too much. But let's hear 30 seconds of Winston. Words have a tendency to change meaning. When I was a boy, woman meant someone who didn't have a cock. Populism has become a word used synonymously with racists, we've heard ethno-nationalists, with bigot, with hillbilly, redneck, with deplorables. Elites use it to show their contempt for ordinary people. This is a recent change. Not long ago, Barack Obama, while still president at the North America's Leaders Summit in June 2016,

he took umbrage with the notion that Trump be called a populist. How could Trump be called a populist how could trump be called a populist he doesn't care about working people if anything obama argued he was the populist if anything obama argued bernie was the populist it was bernie who spent five decades fighting for working people but trump something curious happens if you watch obama's speeches after that point more and more recently he uses the word populist interchangeably with strongman with authoritarian the word changes meaning it becomes a negative, a pejorative, a slur. There it is. And so, Winston, where did you come up with your understanding of great ideas? You said you came over here as a musician at 19. Where did all this come from?

Well, I care about my country. I care about the world and I care about the future. I care about my family. And I think I, well, you know, one thing, I don't know exactly where it comes from, but I get angry when I hear someone like Hillary saying, writing off people as deplorable, writing off Americans as deplorables. I spent all of my 20s, as I said, in your country. I've toured,

I've been to 48 states. I think I've played in something like 40, 45. I love Americans. I had, when Trump won in 2016, and I didn't like, I wouldn't have voted for him in that, at that time. The reaction by all my peers, I was living in New York, was that, oh my God, America is racist. And I had a different reaction because I'd visited a lot of America and I knew it wasn't racist. And I was shocked by that result. But my attitude was to reflect on what I didn't know. And so I went on a journey to really understand. And the more I did so, the more I resented those who wrote off, as I say in my speech, wrote off ordinary people as racists, as bigots, as hillbillies.

It's just so condescending. And I mean, I'm sure that makes you angry as well. These things, it's just, it's injustice, is it not? Yeah, it does. And I think this is a good place for us to kind of roll to a stop i have no doubt we've got two more hours in us you and i um and you're being and you're being uh awfully humble in how you answered that question i i want to know more about where you read and where you get your information and how you could be a model for other people to come to understanding of great ideas in our world

because we have access to it now. I mean, it's one of the great, as negative as the phones have been, one of the great advantages have been access to information. And whether you're an auditory learner, you can listen to podcasts or visually read, whatever, it's all there for us now. And so we can gain

access to the great ideas. So listen, I'll give you a chance for any concluding remarks. I do appreciate you getting, you know, adjusting your schedule for us. It's odd, you know, with the time changes and stuff. We're here early today. I know you're actually late in the day or later in the day. Last thoughts. Well, I just want to say thank you very much, Dr. Drew, and I wish all of your great listeners all the best. And we are rooting for America. And even though you might be told certain things, like people say, oh, people are laughing at America when Trump's president. Well, that's just not true. America is a great country.

And whoever is president, whether it's Biden or Trump, you are loved and respected by a lot of the world. Because the rest of the world is ordinary people who recognize that America is built on good, hardworking, ordinary people just like them. So don't let the elites make you think differently. Don't let them split you up because this is a worldwide movement, I think, against elitism and what's happening in America is happening in Europe. And just remember that. Yours is a great country, and God bless you all. And I would just stand, stand by that and say,

you know, get your compass right. Stand by what's right. Or by what's, what's right with the capital R and understand part of that elite is the press. And so do not believe the news. The news is distorted and false and just keep your eyes open.

Make your own conclusions. Winston Marshall, go to MRwindmarshall. Let me get the particulars about your cigar company and other things too, which is, I love that. Be careful with your oral hygiene and things. Don't get mouth cancer. It's 1573cigars. It's rumblewinstonmarshall.

It's winstonmarshall.co.uk for Substack and of course Dissonant Dialogues, a place for dangerous ideas. Check that out and thank you for joining us. Dr. Drew, such a pleasure. Thank you so much for having me on. I hope

to see you again soon. Cheers. I hope so as well. And if you're out in Los Angeles or even New York, please alert us because we will go out of our way to break bread with you. Let's see, Susan, let's bring up a reminder about our Canada friends because we are out there trying to save Canada. Naomi Wolf and Brian O'Shea in tomorrow for a lengthy conversation to scare us about the end of humanity. Let me see. We have Patrick Bet-David, BBD Podcast, and Carla Treadway.

We have Jamie Metzl. We have Gabriel Shipton. I'm looking at the list here in front of me as well. We got lots. Oh, my gosh. We have so many interesting guests coming. A lot of them aren't even

on the list up there yet. Salty Cracker on July 2nd. Excuse me, June 27th. Andrew Huff, July 2nd. And then we are heading to Canada, the annual Reclaiming Canada conference in a couple of weeks. Do check it out. It's a way to, it's in a week, that's right. It's a way to bring together leaders from government digital platforms, media, academia, civil society to address real disinformation and censorship.

Goals to come up with a strategy to really address the elite, just as we were talking about. Reclaim what's a true democracy in Canada. It's June 21st through June 23rd in Victoria. Go to weunify.ca, weunify.ca for more information and for tickets. It's a gathering of the greatest.

It's McCullough, it's Rish, it's Steve Kirsch even. What's that, Susan? I'm sorry, we couldn't couldn't hear you there sorry let me get back over here uh they're actually almost sold out and for the event but there will be a live uh a way to watch it live so make sure you go to we uniform we unify unify.ca and get the live stream. Emily Barsh is saying we put the wrong copy up. There was a new copy sent this morning. So we'll get that tomorrow.

Don't you worry. We just want you aware of what we're doing here. Caleb, any thoughts on today's show? You seem interestingly invested. Oh, no, that was great. Yeah, like I told Susan, the only people that I'll do shows this early for are presidential candidates and Grammy

winners. I'll do it for them. We need to stay in touch with him. Seriously. He's a smart guy. Wow. I mean, go watch the full video. Go watch the full debate. That's what you really got to see. He builds the topic. He's an amazing debater. see to really, because he builds the topic. He's an amazing debater.

Like you don't expect that coming from musicians. You don't expect like these grand eloquent speeches. And he makes his point and really, really drives it home. Go watch the full video. Yeah, but he's a performer. Well, you guys, I didn't want to. He's a performer. So he brings it. I didn't want to drill into it too much,

but I promise you that, first of of all he's got a lot of horsepower intellectually obviously but the british educational system is extraordinary and by the by the time young brits are 18 19 they are so thoroughly and completely educated in ways we don't get near to maybe a graduate school here and i want to get into it with him on that. And then where he clearly has read extraordinarily broadly and what that was all about and what he read and why he chose what he read. So there's a lot there to unpack. We just didn't have time for it. There's too much else to do today.

So we'll, we'll do another one with him. Uh, let me quickly, if you guys don't mind, since we're all here, uh, go over to the restream and the rumble rants and see what you guys are thinking uh susan anything on the rants oh you guys are being weird as always over

there a little bit um with your skeet talk uh let's see um oh you johnny meyer, I don't think I'm an elite. Okay, fair enough. We should get into that because if I am an elite, I certainly don't feel like an ensconced elite. In other words, my job as an elite would be to support people to raise to their highest possible level as opposed to defending my position as an elite. So that's interesting. Johnny, what are you yawning about?

Go ahead and have your criticism. I'm all ears. Let's see what else you guys are saying here. Interesting. Virtue must be cultivated. That is true, FPG. That's his whole point. Same thing with Plato.

We have to start by living a certain kind of life and that virtue will build internally as a result. And people in 12-step recovery, that's their sort of philosophy as well. All right. We'll have to leave it there for today. Tomorrow we are, let's see, what day of the week is this, you guys? Help me. Tuesday. Because it's so odd being here at this time of day. All right, so we are at our usual time tomorrow, and we will

have Naomi Wolf and Brian O'Shane here. I'm going to give Susan some Xanax before we have that conversation because Brian gets her very excited, and Naomi on top of that will be interesting. So we'll see how that goes. And then, of course, let me double check that Thursday is also our usual time with Patrick,

but David, yes, just double checking. I promoted this time improperly on Thursday. I said, we were at three o'clock today. Obviously we are not. So we'll see you tomorrow at three o'clock Pacific time.

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