Ask Dr. Drew - Your Calls: Lost Titanic Submarine, RFK, Numerology & more w/ Bobby Chacon – Ask Dr. Drew – Episode 234

Episode Date: June 29, 2023

Dr. Drew answers your calls on any topic: the missing Titanic submarine, Robert F. Kennedy Jr, censorship, mRNA, vaccines, addiction, health, and anything you’d like to discuss. Bobby Chacon is a retired FBI agent and attorney. He is also a writer / consultant on CBS' Criminal Minds. In 1987, after graduating law school, Bobby entered the FBI Academy at Quantico. Upon graduating, Bobby was assigned to the New York Office of the FBI where he worked the Italian Mafia and Jamaican Posses. He is an expert in underwater crime scene investigations, crisis management, and counterterrorism. Follow Bobby Chacon at https://bobbychacon.com and https://twitter.com/bobbychaconfbi 「 SPONSORED BY 」 Find out more about the companies that make this show possible and get special discounts on amazing products at https://drdrew.com/sponsors • PRIMAL LIFE - Dr. Drew recommends Primal Life's 100% natural dental products to improve your mouth. Get a sparkling smile by using natural teeth whitener without harsh chemicals. For a limited time, get 60% off at https://drdrew.com/primal • PALEOVALLEY - "Paleovalley has a wide variety of extraordinary products that are both healthful and delicious,” says Dr. Drew. "I am a huge fan of this brand and know you'll love it too!” Get 15% off your first order at https://drdrew.com/paleovalley • THE WELLNESS COMPANY - Counteract harmful spike proteins with TWC's Signature Series Spike Support Formula containing nattokinase and selenium. Learn more about TWC's supplements at https://twc.health/drew • BIRCH GOLD - Don’t let your savings lose value. You can own physical gold and silver in a tax-sheltered retirement account, and Birch Gold will help you do it. Claim your free, no obligation info kit from Birch Gold at https://birchgold.com/drew • GENUCEL - Using a proprietary base formulated by a pharmacist, Genucel has created skincare that can dramatically improve the appearance of facial redness and under-eye puffiness. Genucel uses clinical levels of botanical extracts in their cruelty-free, natural, made-in-the-USA line of products. Get an extra discount with promo code DREW at https://genucel.com/drew 「 MEDICAL NOTE 」 The CDC states that COVID-19 vaccines are safe, effective, and reduce your risk of severe illness. You should always consult your personal physician before making any decisions about your health.  「 ABOUT the SHOW 」 Ask Dr. Drew is produced by Kaleb Nation (https://kalebnation.com) and Susan Pinsky (https://twitter.com/firstladyoflove). This show is for entertainment and/or informational purposes only, and is not a substitute for medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. 「 ABOUT DR. DREW 」 For over 30 years, Dr. Drew has answered questions and offered guidance to millions through popular shows like Celebrity Rehab (VH1), Dr. Drew On Call (HLN), Teen Mom OG (MTV), and the iconic radio show Loveline. Now, Dr. Drew is opening his phone lines to the world by streaming LIVE from his home studio. Watch all of Dr. Drew's latest shows at https://drdrew.tv Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Today we are dedicating our show to you, the callers, both your questions and comments. So we'll give you a chance to call in. Before we do, and of course that's always, as always, on Twitter Spaces. So just head over there and you'll see once you enter the Spaces that you can just hit the request button. Caleb has a cool cartoon to show you how to do that. And then once I call you up, you'll be streaming on multiple platforms. And then you have to unmute yourself and you'll have a chance to. There is that cool cartoon that Caleb has created for us.

Before we do get to the calls and questions, though, I'm going to bring in my friend Bobby Chacon. He's a former FBI agent who worked organized crime and counterterrorism. He also founded the Underwater Forensic Program for the FBI and developed that. And he's the ideal person to tell us about what went wrong, what might have happened there. These days, he's a technical advisor, story consultant, and writer for movies and television. You'll recognize Bobby. He's been on this stream many times. So let's get to it. Our laws as it pertained to substances are draconian and bizarre.

The psychopath started this. He was an alcoholic because of social media and pornography, PTSD, love addiction, fentanyl and heroin. Ridiculous. I'm a doctor for f*** sake. Where the hell do you think I learned that? I'm just saying, you go to treatment before you kill people. I am a clinician. I observe things about these chemicals.

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Use the code Drew for an extra discount and free priority shipping. Again, that is GenuCell.com slash Drew. G-E-N-U-C-E-L.com slash D-R-E-W. So here we are. As I said, we're going to be discussing first this tragedy of the submarine that apparently disintegrated while attempting to examine the Titanic. I personally have had trouble. I have a little claustrophobia and just the idea of this whole thing was almost too much for me to not turn away from this story. It's tragic. It is sad. We have, you know, two billionaires, I guess, on board with

their family members. It just is an awful story. But it's a reminder though, and, you know, people are doing high risk sort of activities. Shit happens. It's just the nature of things. You know, we sign these waivers all the time about risk of death and people think, well, of course that couldn't happen. Well, of course it could happen. That's why we sign these waivers. Let's bring Bobby Chacon in, who is an underwater expert. He set up the underwater forensic program for the FBI. Bobby, welcome as always. Did I get your stuff right in terms of what you're doing presently, writing, technical advisor, story, consultant? And where can people find you if they want to know more?

BobbyChacon.com or my YouTube channel, either one. I usually try to post there at least once a week, twice a week. Fantastic. So what do you imagine happened here? I think there was probably a problem before they even left the surface. I think there was probably a breach, some kind of breach in the integrity of the hull of that vessel. And it didn't become apparent until they got to a certain pressure. Because, you know, on Monday when I was exploring this, I had my first appearance on Tuesday on the news. But when I did my analysis on Monday, I noticed that they lost communication during the descent phase. So there are three phases.

Descent, at the bottom, ascent, right? First phase is increasing pressure. Middle phase is constant pressure, as long as the bottom is fairly stable. And then the ascent is the decreasing pressure again. So it happened, they lost communication during the increasing pressure phase of the dive. And so that usually indicates that they reached a point where the pressure was able to exploit the breach in that hull. And that would mean at that depth at that pressure a catastrophic failure uh an implosion of the of the hull i said this on tuesday on the news i said it's worst case scenario but in

my estimation that's probably what happened and and we learned this earlier today that that is looks like what exactly happened and would they have had any warning? Would there be a noise? Would they understand they were in trouble or would just be milliseconds and that's the end of it? Yeah. So no, it depends on the breach. So they do have sensors that kind of would indicate whether or not a breach was occurred and whether pressure was coming into the vessel. However, that's if the breach was small enough, it was contained and controlled. There are certain breaches and certain pressures that it would happen instantaneously. Now, they have had situations on this very vessel before where they were able to communicate certain things,

they would come back up and scrub the mission. Here there was no sense that the people on board knew there was a problem at the time that communication was lost. And I have to think that communication was lost at the time of the implosion. I don't think there was two problems. In other words, a communication problem and then a hull problem. I think they lost communication at the very time at the very moment that that imploded so to your question I think that it was immediate

and it was catastrophic do they have a sense of what depth that was I mean a lot of people don't appreciate that the vessel drops descends for two and a half hours that's an incredible it just drops at a pretty good rate too yeah so they i think they were probably close to the bottom they certainly more than halfway there they were probably more than three quarters of the way there they were an hour and a 45 minutes into like a two and a half hour journey so you can do the math and and and i think that they were you know fairly close to the bottom um and and they got to that point where they, you know, quite frankly, they may not have even known. It might have happened so quickly, they might not even realize.

And back to your, the word you were using, breach. Can you give us an example of common breaches? What exactly we're talking about? Well, sure. I mean, the most common one people can think about in layman's terms would be a crack, like a small pinhole crack in the vessel. Or in this case, it probably wasn't that apparent. It was probably a weakness that developed. So when these vessels go down, up and down on these missions, and this isn't the first time this vessel has been used, they get compressed and then they come back up and they expand. They compress and they expand. Over the lifetime,

you have to throw some of these things away sometimes, because just that process of going under pressure and getting contracted and then getting expanded, weaknesses develop in the walls of that vessel. Weaknesses that unless you're doing complete x-rays of every inch of that vessel, weaknesses that unless you're doing complete x-rays of every inch of that vessel every time it comes up, you may not see. You may not see a weakness develop. And so in my guess, a weakness developed that wasn't seen, that wasn't probably detected by whatever they were using to do their post-dive analysis the last time it dove was last season. This was the first time this it dove was last season.

This was the first time this season, this weather season. So whatever analysis they put that vessel through probably did not detect that weakness. But these pressures at that depth are just otherworldly. And I think that, you know, that weakness was exploited by that pressure causing a catastrophic implosion. I had a friend whose brother was a MIT metallurgist, I remember, in college, and I was talking to him, and he was studying potential for wing failure in aircraft. And he freaked me out a little bit by pointing out that all metal has a failure point. There's

no such thing as a metal that will not fail. They all fail. But in aircraft, particularly, of course, military aircraft, this was all very tightly controlled and regulated. And it's sort of orders of magnitude beyond safety, even though there's still some finite risk, it's very tiny. In a situation like this, who's regulating? Who's watching? How do they know if their safety standards are up to any standard at all? Well, I mean, the same thing happens in aircraft, as you said. But we've lost people with these experimental aircrafts

that they're building in their own garages, right? We've seen those, what they used to call those, I forget what they used to call those i forget what they used to call those experimental aircrafts that people used to fly and crash um and in this case you know you have the same thing you have professional aircraft and you have these experimental aircraft here you you have professional submarines it takes two billion dollars for the us to build a submarine um this one was probably built for somewhat less than that and so you know we all have seen the play PlayStation controller that was used. You know, there have been, you know, some troublesome reports of people, other people that have actually been on this craft and said, I was

nervous about how it was put together. There are, there were people from in that same company that kind of complained. And I think a lawsuit was later filed saying like they were fired because they voiced safety concerns. So you know there is enough I think to be said that you know perhaps this vessel could have been either constructed better or inspected better after its last dive. And they say now that they found or identified a debris field. What would that, how does that work? In other words, is it, is it, is there, does it sort of implode and then explode sort of thing? Or is it just a crushed, what do they mean by debris field?

Yeah, so you're right. You're exactly right. It implodes and explodes. And that's because in the back, in the rear portion, the aft portion of this vessel, there were oxygen tanks because as they're breathing, you know, we're breathing in basically 21% oxygen, we're exhaling about 15% oxygen. So if you're in an enclosed tube, the oxygen level is constantly dropping and the carbon dioxide level is actually going up.

So they have scrubbers that kind of absorb the carbon dioxide and then they have tanks that emit small amounts of oxygen to keep it at 21% or thereabouts. And so you have these octa, we all know compressed pure oxygen is quite combustible. And so what happens is when that implosion takes place, it forces a great amount of pressure, squeezing those those tanks then explode from that pressure. So you have kind of a two a two phase motion there, you have the implosion, then the explosion, and then the debris goes raining down, you know, in that spot. And so they found fairly, I'm surprised fairly significant pieces of the tail cone, I believe, of that vessel. And now these RVs that are down there, they have great cameras on the high def cameras,

low light cameras, and they're going to be able to record a lot of that. And they also have manipulator arms that can grab things and retrieve things. And so I'm expecting them to be recovering, you know, some of the debris to bring back to the surface and analyze further. Wow, it's a tragic story. Again, it hits all of my anxieties almost in sequence.

And it's awful. I wish they had found the MH470, though, or 370. I'm still wondering. Your head's going to that. Okay. So anyways, should we take some questions? Yes. Do we want to talk to Zach

and have him propose his theory? Zach Voorhees our friend from the Project Veritas got a lot of grief on social media I saw because he went full conspiracy and I thought we'd give him a chance to tell his story here

We like to hear all sides Well, not even all sides Zach, what do you say? Hey Drew, can you hear me? story here. We like to hear all sides. Well, not even all sides. Zach, what do you say? Hey, Drew, can you hear me? We got you. Yeah. Okay, great.

Yeah. I know that you're a little bit of a skeptic, so that's fine if you want to interrupt me and try to correct it. But yeah, I posted a really viral tweet today, putting together a lot of different things. It's stuff that I've known for a while, and no one was talking about it. And so the gist of it is that there's this theory that there's a coincidence between the sinking of the Titanic and the creation of the Federal Reserve due to a number of people that died on that ship. And specifically, there were four people that were against the creation of the Federal Reserve.

It was industrialists John Jacob Astor IV, Benjamin Gutenheim, Isidore Strauss, and George Zutton-Wadeen. And what's really interesting is that they actually touched on this in the movie Titanic. There's about a three second clip where Leonardo DiCaprio is walking past a bunch of people arguing about the Federal Reserve. And it's pretty much over. But when I saw this thing happen, I started to dig in. And one of the interesting things about this story is the fact that in 2001, there was a treaty. Maybe it was even a little bit earlier. Mike Pompeo signed a treaty that forbid the exploration of the Titanic. You have to be permitted to be able to go there. It's highly regulated, in fact.

And so this whole story was really weird because you've got an experimental submarine that wasn't certified. You had inexperienced pilots and it was controlled by, what, a PlayStation 4 controller or similar. And what's also really interesting is that the Rothschilds funded this operation. They were one of the key investors in this company.

What company? The submarine company? The submarine company, yeah. To me, it's sort of comical that as soon as the Rothschild name comes in, everybody immediately runs to a conspiracy, which is so fascinating, but keep going. Yeah. So, uh, entrepreneur and environmentalist joined. So David D Rothschild, entrepreneur and environmentalist joins Ocean Gate Incorporated board of directors. Like you can't make this stuff up. Right. Um, and so, uh, when I saw this and I saw the media attention, I kind of put a few things together and, um the conclusion that the reason why the media is pushing this is because they really don't want people to look at the Titanic.

They want to lock it down so that no one can visit it. Now, why is that? Well, look, we've all heard of the maxim of, you know, jet fuel can't melt steel beams. And there's a corollary to this, which is icebergs can't break through hardened steel. Now, this Titanic ship, its hull size was one inch thick of carbon steel. That puts it into the class of an icebreaker which is 25 millimeters to 75 millimeters and those things are designed to just cut through not just sea ice but ice that's on the surface which gets much much colder and much much harder and so there's this theory that there was an explosion that the ship was rigged with explosives

and I was a little skeptical and so I started looking at the primary sources and what people were writing about the Titanic and sure enough there is story after story of the people that survived the Titanic that there was an explosion on board that didn't hit an iceberg. There was an explosion. And so I started looking for other signs that this might be kind of true. And what I found was a Smithsonian article that said that experts think that there was an undetected coal fire for two weeks preceding the hit with the iceberg, and that this actually contributed to the

structural integrity and the weakening. And so I think that what's happening is that it might be possible that they're kind of feeding the narrative with a limited disclosure so that if it does come out, hey, look, there might have actually been an explosion. They said, oh, we already knew that. That's old news. And so that's essentially my theory, that this is a cover-up.

They don't want people visiting the Titanic. They're going to strengthen the international treaties. They're going to shut down exploration of this ship. Well, Zach, as always, I appreciate your thoughts. Are you a theorist that there was no moon landing and that the government was involved in the 9-11, all that stuff? Just curious how far you go with your conspiracies. It's more complex than that. I think we did go to the moon. I think that we were obviously in space. It's the final frontier. When I look at some of the old videos, they're laughably false.

So it's kind of a mind game that they're playing where they're pushing out false videos. So the American public gets to say, oh, it really happened or it didn't really happen. But I do think a lot of the videos that they pushed out there are fake. I do believe we went to the moon. I do believe that we've got a space program and we can't observe it we can't verify it we can't you know falsify it and so what they're doing out in space what they've built out in the moon who knows maybe one day we'll figure it out let me ask this what are you up to these days other than creating trouble on, on, online? Ah, well,

uh, I'm involved in a project. Can't really talk about that, uh, that much, but it is monitoring. Aha. The Rothschilds must be involved.

It must be funded by the Rothschilds. You know what? I don't want to, I don't want to dig too deeply into the funding strings on this project, but, uh, right. So, but I do wake up every single day, uh, enthusiastic about what I'm doing. deeply into the funding strings on this project. Right?

But I do wake up every single day enthusiastic about what I'm doing. All right, good. Well, when you're ready to talk about it, let us know, okay? All right. Thank you, Dr. Drew. You bet. Zach Voorhees from the Project Veritas. Well, you know, it seems to me, I've heard the explosion theory before, too,

and there's various explosion theories, but I've never heard anybody say that the ship was rigged. Have you ever heard that one, Bobby? No, I have not. No. Yeah. Yeah. It seems a bit far-fetched. And listen, if you reason from conclusion and put too much weight on associations versus causations. You can get into some pretty strange places pretty fast.

And occasionally they're right. So I'm all for free thinking and open-mindedness, but humbly I don't go all the way there in a lot of things. But, you know, we find out. Unfortunately, COVID was a painful teacher and a lot of things that looked like not just conspiracy theory but just but not necessarily accurate turned out to be accurate so it it calls into question a lot of stuff and and i think i think some of this people are very frightened by uh what's going on these days in terms of people going too conspiratorial.

I say bring everything out in the light because I haven't worked in a psychiatric hospital for 35 years. When people get a little paranoid, if you start clamping down information, they get much more paranoid and much more spinny in their thinking. So you just bring it all out. Oh, there's your doggies. They're going. Sorry. It it all out. Oh, there's your doggies. They're going, we're kind of, it's all right. And we're kind of going through a realignment and a rethinking of things. And hopefully people will get to the truth once again. So, all right, Bobby, I'm going to go take some calls from people online. I don't know if we're going to have any more calls about

submarine. I appreciate your thoughts and expertise. You want to kind of sit in the background with me and if there are questions for you, I will bring you back in. We'll know pretty quickly if people are interested in that. This is Edward coming in here. You need to unmute yourself once you are connected. Edward, go ahead. Hello, Dr. Drew.

Calling in from England. Can you hear me okay? Loud and clear. Can you hear me? Ah, Dr. Drew. Calling in from England. Can you hear me okay? Loud and clear. Can you hear me? Ah, perfect. Hello, good evening to everybody. Right. I'm not one for conspiracy theories,

but I've studied ancient history, and there was something the ancients used. I know she's going to get a lot of rolling of the eyes, but it was numerology. You know, there's vast amounts of information that the ancients brought that into Chaldea, into

Babylonia, and they used it, they mapped the stars with it, etc. So we just take a moment to step back and look at the backwoods, what Zach was saying, Titanic. Now, the Titanic, allegedly, supposedly, I don't know, I wasn't on it, it hit the iceberg on the 14th of the 4th, 1912. Now, if you add those numbers up, it comes to 22.

The Titan sub that we've lost today was 22 feet long. It was lost on the 18th of the 6th, 2023. You add those numbers up, it comes to 22. The debris was found today, which is the 22nd. The Federal Reserve was created on the 23rd of the 12th, 1913. You add those numbers up, it comes to 22. Element 22. I love this guy. This is, you're getting

into my wife's territory here. Element 22 on the periodic table is titanium named after Titan. Now, I don't know if you've seen that Z floating around Ukraine, but Z is actually the symbol for the atomic number.

It's what I mean to mathematics and the probabilities of all that being coincidental, quite astronomical. I'd like your thoughts on that. Well, my thoughts are, I really, again,

I love free thought. I love free thinking. I can tell you this is math though Drew this is math do the math it's numerology it's not math I love numerology everything is math Drew everything is math

well that's the point that's your point that's a point I will take on as factual how come when I said it was math you said no it wasn't no no no everything is math which is true and so yes it's a you know if you keep following all the way down yeah everything is math and of course this is math too but but uh you guys maybe screwed up my what my

point was going to be now which which was that people when often times when they try to figure out the probability of whether something is likely or not likely to happen, you actually have to inverse the question and ask, what's the probability of these things not happening? And so when coincidences occur, you start to find out the probability of coincidence is not happening or rather low things like somebody in the room. If you have more than 20 people, they're going to same birthdays, the same, that kind of thing. Now,

having said that Susan loves this stuff. So I'm glad you brought it up and you should be aware that whenever we, she and I have talked to a numerologist, they freak out. Like there's something about our numbers that just line up. And- Nikola Tesla said everything is energy. So everything is energy, frequency, vibration.

And I'm not one to disagree with the great Nikola Tesla. Sorry to bust in. I am not either. And yes, and everything is math. Everything is describable by math. And, you know, we should be doing more math, to be fair. And in a weird way, we're just interfaces, right? We're just using, we don't see reality as it is.

We see it through the interface of this evolved instrument in our skull, which is highly limited, highly limited. And I appreciate things like this. Susan, you really love this stuff, right? I love it. I believe in it. This is Sarah.

I also think that the Titanic is haunted. Haunted? Yeah. Okay, we're going all the way down today. What's that, Caleb? I have a little bit of numerology for you right here. Let me show you. Okay.

So this is my son right over here on the screen, right? So my son's birthday is 7 21 21 july 21st of 2021 right well you take the seven and you do this now this divided by three is seven seven seven divided by three and this divided by three seven seven seven seven sevens and should we add that up my son has seven sevens of his birthday he is the uh the the the coming of the next christ ah okay okay and seven's my lucky number and uh we have 11s all over the place i do that trick for all of my friends just how much we love our child i know freaks them out every time this is this is sarah i believe sarah go ahead hi dr jude can you hear me okay loud and clear awesome i just want to say for context for

anybody listening to me that i did have oral surgery this morning and I have gauze in my mouth. So if I'm not speaking 100 percent clearly, it's because of that. So I know that, you know, we talked. Yeah, no problem. We talked a little bit and I've been talking to Steve Kirsch, as you know. And really today, I just want to ask you a question and I want to ask you if you know who Jack Piper is. Do I know who Jack Piper is? I don't think so. Should I know him? Let me look it up. Go ahead and look it up. Jack Piper, and then put in Andrew Wakefield at the same time. Andrew Wakefield was the guy

that was the big autism guy, right? Correct. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Wakefield stuff takes over. There's no Jack Piper, but tell me who Jack Piper is. Okay, so if you put both those names in quotation marks, it might come up in Google search.

That's a little Google food technique that I like to use. Jack Piper is one of the original 12 kids in Wakefield study. And he suffered immensely being a part of that study. His bowel was perforated in 12 different places because they were doing a colonoscopy on a five-year-old, which the medical board determined was not clinically appropriate. And I personally think that this is the first instance of anti-vaxxers experimenting on and abusing autistic children. And so that's kind of why I do a lot of my advocacy. I wanted to kind of let you know and kind of put that in your ear that this is why I

care about this issue so much, because there are a lot of things that the anti-vaccine community would not like to talk to you about. I have never, there is no, even pro-vaccine people, because I talk to a lot of people, there are a lot of pro-vaccine people who have never heard of Jack Piper either. And I think it's really important

to think about the suffering that he endured. I mean, the hospital ended up paying out over 500,000 pounds to his family for his suffering, and he's going to need lifelong care. In addition to the fact that he was already autistic. So I just, that's kind of, that's just want to come in and pop in and see if you knew about him. I did talk with Steve Kirsch about that and his response to that,

to be fair, I want to make sure I get his response out there with that. He did not think that Wakefield was ultimately responsible in my opinion, because Wakefield's the lead author and he's the one who developed the protocol, he is ultimately responsible. The protocol. The protocol for? For the experiments. He developed the experiments that they were going to. It was the lumbar punctures, colonoscopies.

Those were the, because they were trying to prove that the measles virus was present in the gut. So that's why they had to do the colonoscopies, because they were trying to find evidence of the measles virus. And I think that if you actually read Wakefield's general, the British Medical Council, when they actually list out all the things he did wrong, it talks about how a lot of those procedures were not clinically indicated and the reason why wakefield's license was stripped from him is because there was a little bit of dishonesty on the medical histories of his children and again at the end of the day even if not even if not even if everything was up front this is pretty crazy stuff right um now the article i'm reading here oh my god we're gonna we're going to try to determine the cause of autism by doing

invasive procedures on children i i don't think so um the the the article i keep saying here keeps referring to a surgery though it makes me wonder if there was, like, they did biopsies with the colonoscopy, ruptured his colon with that, went back in with an open surgery, and had many complications from that. Maybe something's missing in even the reporting of it. So it's just sort of not all fitting together. But, yes, to do lumbar punctures and colonoscopies for the record on children for spurious reasons, I do not, I condemn that categorically. Thanks, Sarah.

I appreciate that. I'm excited to talk to Steve Kirsch about that because he does not agree with me. Wild. All right. Thank you so much, Sarah. I appreciate that. And let's get, hold on here. I've got to get, goodness, I have lots of hands up here.

I appreciate that. Marcel. Whoops. Oh, ooh. There we go. Marcel. I think I got you. Oh, it went away.

Scott Adams is listening. Thank you, Scott, for hanging out. We're just taking calls today. We did a, just to tell, I'm going to bring my friend Scott Adams up to date here. What we were doing, we were giving a report on the subversible vessel that disintegrated in the. Bobby has one more thing to say. Oh, Bobby, come on back in. We'll go to break.

Go ahead. I think he's there. The gentleman that was yeah i'm here the gentleman that was on earlier and he had the four names i think there was a tweet that showed a tweet the four names of people that he thought were connected so those four so is it is it or strauss is on that list strauss i noticed her so yeah so she's number three on that list. I believe, I believe, from what I've read this week, that that's the great-grandmother or the grandmother of the wife, now widow, of the pilot of the Titan vessel. Oh, interesting. I think that the wife is a heir to some some department store maybe macy's i don't know but i know strauss was always a big uh department store so i think that isidore strauss

and her husband both perished on on the titanic um they were actually kind of a there was a scene in the titanic movie and jim cameron movie where this elderly couple's in bed as the water flushes into their uh cabin that was kind of supposedly based on them um and supposedly the story goes that they actually there were these very rich people but they were helping women and children into the light boats and they didn't get into one themselves and they perished now she is either the grandmother great-grandmother great-great-grandmother of the wife now widow of of um the guy who built the vessel that perished this week. Maybe that's why they had an interest in doing this. Maybe.

And we'll see what conspiracy Zach weaves from that. I like Zach's conspiracy theory. Another couple layers to his story. But to Zach's point, he was saying that the four of these industrialists that were on the Titanic were against the foundation of the Federal Reserve. And he's theorizing that that has something to do with something. So, but again, uh, we appreciate thoughts, everybody. Uh, what I'm going to do, I'm going to let Bobby go. Uh, and then we're going to go back to your calls on any topic after this little break

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I do not give financial advice and previous performance is no guarantee of future performance. Visit birchgold.com slash drew to get your free info kit on gold. That is B-I-R-C-H-D-O-L-D.com slash D-R-E-W. And we are back. I'm taking your calls. I was just sitting here thinking about my beloved Annals of Internal Medicine. This is the very journal, I'm telling you, this particular May, volume 176, number five, is the journal that began to show differing ideas around COVID and vaccines, just asking questions. First time I've seen, and by the way, in this journal, there's an excellent article on oral fluvoxamine with inhaled budesonide for treatment of early onset COVID-19 showing very good response.

So for the first time, you see an early treatment protocol being actually analyzed in a legitimate journal before anything that came out positive was expunged from the record. Because I knew it was going back and forth. It didn't make sense to me that we were only seeing outcomes going one way. It never happens that way in medicine. That's how you know there's something wrong with the editorial process. It was really a very strange time. And so Anil seems to be slowly melting the ice on bringing it.

Now, I just read this week's publication. There was nothing unusual in it, but at least as I read it, I felt, well, I can at least rely on this journal and the editorial process that brings these articles to my awareness. Winston, go right ahead there. You need to unmute yourself. Go ahead.

Hey, what's happening, Dr. Drew? I can't believe you're taking my call at 4 on June 22nd. That's just amazing. I know. Wait a minute, 2023. Add those numbers all together quick. And if I don't like the answer I get from that,

I just add an additional layer to it. You see what I did? And then June. Yeah, you just add another variable. Add another variable. I'm in the state of California, which was the what number state added to the union. Maybe we can get something going there. Yeah, that is reasoning from – that's like – well, okay.

It's how our brains work, guys. It's how the brains work. We're looking for meaning even when we don't necessarily see any. That's it, man. I mean, it's the old accounting trick. You know, you torture numbers long enough but uh i wanted to say that with the just one second somebody said yesterday one second one second somebody said yesterday i think it was uh no uh i forget who the quote was from but he said

the plain and simple truth is uh it's it's never never simple and rarely plain so there we go so what's up again man hamlet hamlin's razor but you know like i just who considers himself a bit of a tinfoil top hat like i gotta i gotta thank the internet for the real conspiracy theories out there who when anything happens at all you will instantly see a flood of stories like i saw one today that two of the people on the submarine were members of the world economic forum and they were gonna blow the lid off it and it's it's just so striking to me how literally anything it's like human brains just can't accept chaos as part of existence there has to be a reason behind everything. That's right. And so that motivation to make sense of things has many layers to it and motivational aspects.

One is to make sense to feel safe so you can understand things and continue to move through the world. Another is to sort of gain some control or mastery over things if you feel you have some special insight into things. And the other is just, you know, you just, you get scared. And in the face of fear, it's easy to get paranoid and then you run to conclusions to try to diminish the fear. Well, and it all ties full circle into the COVID narrative. I mean, humans have always needed that explanation. I mean, roll back the clock a few thousand years, lightning strikes a tree. Hey, did you light that tree on fire?

No, I didn't. Let's be God. So then a God does it. And as we've kind of transitioned away from that, it's become, you know, the fountains of the world have kind of become the high priest. But it's still serving that same, I guess I would say evolutionary niche, right or wrong. Right, that's right. It's an evolutionary. So some reason we evolved in such a way that that sort of meaning making served us well when we were trying to predict where an animal was going to be or learn about raising crops or something.

These kinds of ability to predict. But we really, I think people are, you know, Scott Adams is lurking here on the show. I think he still is here. And he likes the, you know, sort of, what do you guys call it? The same thing that Elon Musk calls it. Oh, gosh darn it. But anyway, I'm hearing people more and more talk about a sort of simulation.

Thank you, Caleb. Talking more about us being more of an interface, which I think is really a very accurate way of thinking about things. At very minimum, our brain is an interface. Our sensory system is an interface. We are not experiencing raw reality. It's an interpreted reality. It's an experience of reality that grew out of millions of years of evolution, but it's not reality per

se. And I think that freaks people out. It freaks people out quite a bit. No, I think its interface is fantastic. I mean, I've played around with simulation theory, and best I have it at 50-50 with the one question that kind of breaks the brain is, do you think on a long enough timeline, humans would be able

to create a simulation indiscernible from reality to be able to do reality be it 100 years 500 years and if you answer yes to that question it's well odds are we're in it and so that i'm like oh no i can't wrap my head around that but be it a biological interface or a digital one i think interface is incredibly apt description of kind of the human experience again biological or digital yeah and i even i'll go one step further with you guys which is uh you you know i've always been extremely preoccupied with spooky action at a distance right as as einstein called it which is also called entanglement which is that if you look at the certain spin state of an electron say you know when i do a quantum measurement of this table uh you'll find and let's go now out 12 light years away and look at another quantum measurement it will have the

exact opposite spin in 100 of the cases how is that entangled unless there's sort of some sort of um uh hologram you know that the real reality exists in some sort of point where things can be entangled and what we're experiencing is more of a holographic representation of that point. Does that make sense to anybody? Well, see, I tend to kind of think that we're not in a simulation because just even trying to wrap my brain on that, I'm getting a nosebleed.

So I'm not sure if that really works well to it. Well, it doesn't help us. It doesn't do much in terms of getting through the day, does it? I think we need to bring back the pragmatists, right? The American pragmatism. Pragmatism was invented in America

in the 19th century. We need to bring back pragmatism on behalf of human beings, of human thriving. So, Josh, go ahead. I'll bring you on up. Thriving is the goal. Thriving is the goal, everybody. Not a complete understanding of all things that we call real. What's up? Yeah, I really like the American pragmatism because I feel like there's a link to psychoanalysis from that, which is sort of, you know, let's just do some scientific exploration of the mind. And like what Freud did, you know, in the early days, he just wanted to try to figure out what was really going on with people. But my question is something you said just really quickly yesterday. You were talking about an addiction, how when someone is trying to really recover and who's truly thriving in their life and sustaining their recovery.

They will all tell you the same thing, which is that being of service becomes a critical piece. So fundamentally, in its sort of basic elements, what sobriety and the sort of recovery process, so-called 12-step process, is founded on is some concept of faith, so you're not controlling things yourself. Let go. Have faith that you're letting go as possible without being drained. So some concept of faith. Some ability to tolerate closeness with another human being while you have experiences. So this is sort of this fourth and fifth step where you explore unpresent feeling states and allow another person to experience that there with you. So let's see, faith, sort of closeness, and then fundamentally,

it is just about giving back. It is about service. There's so much, so like that person who is the sponsor sitting there listening to the addict earlier in the game, earlier in the process, is learning about him or herself as they are that person as a sponsor. I will tell you, as somebody that sat in therapeutic settings with patients, you learn about yourself. You learn about what's you, what's not you. A lot of stuff. You learn a lot of things that go on between people that if you aren't able to really hear it and listen to it you'd miss you'd miss and that's that teaches you something every day it's a very rich landscape but more importantly um there's something about just one

person helping another that is deeply meaning meaningful uh the the aristotle knew it he pointed it out uh many thousands or how many thousands a couple thousand years ago whatever it was um and it it is just comes up all the time for human beings uh look when uh i'm gonna point at the the um myth of gilgamesh which is the first myth that's ever been sort of recorded or found. And in the myth of Gilgamesh, this king leaves his kingdom and goes out on an adventure with somebody named Enkidu. And when he comes back, you know, what has he learned? What do you learn after you come back from the massive, crazy adventure is serve your people, be a good king, serve your people, be available to others. Candide, Voltaire, at the end of Candide, he goes on this world tour. And as he gets back after seeing horrors,

what does he conclude? It's necessary to cultivate our own gardens. Stay focused on the things in front of you, your garden, your family, your people, things you care about, and cultivate it. Be of service to it. This is a very powerful message that is, I think, things you care about, and cultivate it, be of service to it. This is a very powerful message that is, I think, often missed. And I think people get a misconception that somehow you can sort of save the world, that that's going to make, that's going to fulfill you. It does not. It turns out, I'm not saying it's not a good thing. It's a good thing to try to make big change in a way that can help lots of people. But it does not nourish the way just being available to one other human being is. And one of the things that Aristotle pointed out that we also miss these days is that in order to be truly of service in a way that has significant impact, you have to have a certain amount of what he called phronesis,

which is wisdom, so experience, and two, techne, or skill. It's one thing I'm very aware of as somebody that's trained in medicine and a lot of experience, that these two things can allow me to provide something very meaningful to another person. And that is what I would call nourishing. And for people in recovery, they need to be regularly nourished and sort of, back to the cultivate, fertilized with the experiences of other and trying to help others. So thank you for that question, Josh. Byron, we'll give you a chance up here.

Again, everybody, once you are connected, you have to unmute your mic so I can talk to you further. Byron. Oh, somebody's saying that Joseph Campbell had that all set up too. I've never heard him say that, but it doesn't surprise me that he would. I would probably argue that Jordan Peterson gets something very, very similar. Byron, unmute your mic, and we'll have you up. All right, I have a little bit of a rule here. If it goes too long, I throw you back in and give somebody else a chance. If you put your hand back up, I will, of course, give you an opportunity if I possibly can.

Ashley, I'll give you a chance at this point. Ashley, you're giving me the sad face, but you are now up here. There you are. I will now unmute that mic in the lower left-hand corner. Everyone see the little microphone with the red line through it? Caleb, did you just show your little cartoon? Is that what I saw? Yeah, I just showed it.

She's coming. Something's up with it. Again, this is a spaces issue. That it takes a while to unmute? Yeah, and it's, for some reason, sometimes people, they can't get it to unmute. It's just locked on a mute because it's showing on one thing it's muted and the other one that's not

oh that's interesting yeah uh well i'm gonna give ashley a second to unmute huh uh and then caleb you have a hard out at quarter after or is it the bottom of the hour on about it uh about 15 in yeah so i have like 20 more minutes okay okay actually i'm sorry uh you know what i'm gonna do seems to be a technical issue uh yeah i'm gonna leave her up and if she gets through if you see that her mic unmute let me know i'm gonna give travis a chance he chance. He's been at the hand up for quite some time. Travis. It'd be interesting to see if he has the same problem that Ashley's having. He seems to be having a problem connecting.

You seeing that, Caleb? Same thing I'm seeing. Yeah, I'm seeing it. Well, it's also odd because on one device that I have here it shows that they are unmuted on the others they're still muted so it's a Twitter spaces issue do you want to maybe call them up from your phone there yes I'll do it I'm going to bring up

okay and we can keep doing it that way too you know I can just call the names and you can go ahead and bring them up alright I got a second now to read the I'm sorry I'm going to read your guys on the restream and over at the Rumble Rants as well

you guys are behaving yourself today I noticed okay let's try to bring up Christy okay go ahead Christy Uh, okay. Let's try to bring up Christie. Okay, go ahead, Christie. Ah, Dan asks, what about the new shots for XBB.1.5? Um, I need to see the data. I need to understand who that is for. Uh, I'm getting very confused by a lot of the vaccine data now i i've i noticed that the

pediatricians have zero tolerance for any mortality risk for for young children in particular and that i again if the vaccine is 100 safe and again i'm seeing risk ratios of like one per 100,000, one per 250,000 for kids that probably have underlying medical problems. So that's not specified in the data I saw. I'm just guessing that's true based on my experience. How it is, is it the case that we can say the vaccine is just 100% not just safe, but also efficacious in ending, preventing those deaths. It's a little difficult for me to see that from the data that we have.

There's some of it that does suggest that. I've seen the stuff that some of the folks have sent my way, but mostly I see the risk benefit being clear in the very elderly population, where we understand the risk, we understand the benefit, we understand the risk of the vaccine, and the risk-reward sort of bears out as you get into the younger population. It's not so clear to me any longer. And the fact that, again, the risk to an adult, a 70-year-old with severe COVID, is not one per 100,000 dying. It's substantially higher than that. So the risk of the vaccine is worth taking for an elderly person. But for a 17-year-old,

it's not clear to me that there is. That might be fine. I'm not saying that the risk is something you should be alarmed about, but the risk reward, I'm just not sure I'm seeing there. Christine, are you there? I am. Can you hear me okay? Oh, good. Good. Am I making sense in some of my analysis here in terms of risk-reward sort of assessments?

Yeah. I was actually calling in to talk about psychology, though, because it seems to be a theme today. And my daughter's birthday is on the 22nd oh let's read more into that yeah some some people know me but they don't know also besides the science i have a degree in sociology and then two majors in grad school in psychology and i'm graduating soon to be a psychotherapist and uh I'm writing a book currently and I just wanted to ask you about something and talk about it. And I've got a

bunch of data and research articles and studies. But the most significant one that I found, because I'm writing a book on the impact of psychology, attachment trauma, trauma, pain management, substance abuse, the whole thing. And I found this study that was really interesting that I've talked about before, and it's named Zoomed Out, and I can put it in the Twitter comments underneath the chat there. But they did a study on over 600 people worldwide. They ran it over several months, and they were studying the features and symptoms of depersonalization. And they broke things down to online meetings, texting, being on social media. And overall, they found what you'd expect. That would be higher rates of depersonalization were positively correlated with higher uses of even texting.

It didn't have to be like an interactive thing where you'd be watching TV versus being on Twitter. But then they also found higher rates of negative emotions that were corresponding with the depersonalization. But then the craziest thing in the study, they said it didn't matter if you tried to mitigate with going outside or being around other people. I was just curious, like, what you had seen, because I think, you know, you still see patients. I'm not, so I'm not quite sure what we're, let's try to figure out what we're reporting here. So depersonalization, not dissociation? Correct, because there's depersonalization, dissociation, and then derealization.

And dissociation is when you're completely out of it, and depersonalization, dissociation, and then derealization. And dissociation is when you're completely out of it. And depersonalization is when you're kind of half in, half out, where you're not quite there, but you have these moments of, you know. Yeah, it's a different experience. It's a different experience. So depersonalization is a feeling that I'm no longer existing. I stop existing. Derealization is reality looks like a dream to me. It's not real. Dissociation can be a lot of different things.

You can have somatoform dissociation where you disconnect from the body and the body becomes a source of disorganized information and is frightening and activates the amygdala every time somebody has the slightest pain that is you know the insular cortex is very involved in this as well and people have shown very clearly that this the somatoform dissociation is associated with chronic pain then there is dissociation from perception you can as you say you sort of just become a go into a fugue state and there's sort of more kind of survival dissociation, which is a sense of, again, derealization,

but disconnecting from the experience of self and other and the environment. And dissociation essentially is a way of disconnecting from painful feelings, overwhelming feelings. It's a shattering of the body's ability to regulate feeling states it's it's something mediated by the vagus nerve you ought to look at the work of uh peter fonegy okay fo no i'm sorry not funny but uh well no no it's uh steven porges p-o-r-g-e-s who has this these mechanisms all completely worked out neurobiologically uh and then if you want to go further the world the word of uh the world of alan shore s-c-h-o-r-e the world of interpersonal

neurobiology or again there are mechanisms kind of worked out for all this stuff so so back to your question about excess time spent in social media adding to depersonalization i'm not quite sure what that means and what we're seeing and then that being in reality or in the world doesn't diminish symptoms i mean that that seems like a lot of different things i sent you a lot of different stuff. Yeah. I cannot imagine a way in which depersonalization and those sorts of symptomatologies are not improved with engagement in the socio-emotional exchange system, as we call it, which is the foundation of interpersonal neurobiology. It's why therapy works.

It's why everything works, why trauma therapy works. And then there's the attachment works, why trauma therapy works. And then there's the attachment system, which is another system, a separate system that gets enlisted through these interpersonal neurobiological mechanisms. And when the brain can't do these things, and it looks for, there's something called Jacksonian dissolution, as the brain sort of, as it is unable to manage things in the present moment, it drops down to lower and lower and lower functions. It sort of, you know, we, as humans have evolved, it's not like we left our reptilian past behind and developed a new brain.

We tended to develop neurological mechanisms on top of old mechanisms. And what happens in the brain when it gets overly stressed is it drops down. It just keeps trying lower and lower and lower mechanisms for survival. And what you finally get to is the freeze response, which is something the reptiles do. You're talking about amygdala. And it's mediated. It's mediated by the, actually the vagus.

It's deeper than the amygdala. Amygdala really is just telling you saliency. That's important. And then it can trigger fear and other things. But fear is a sympathetic reaction while the vagal output is shut down, complete shut down, preparing for a strike. And Vegas, when it gets enlisted in these shutdown mechanisms early in life, tends to build dissociation and dissociative mechanisms as a means of dealing with overwhelming emotion. It's a very complicated topic. Sometimes we want that, right? What's sometimes?

Sometimes we want dissociation. I don't want to remember a car accident. Yeah, it's adaptive, but it's unhealthy, right? It's survival in the moment, but it leaves a residual, okay? And that residual is unhealthy in that it becomes a means of dealing with overwhelming trauma. And the problem is it walls off that trauma or whatever, and you can no longer regulate it with the rest of the brain. And that's why things like EMDR reach in and bring it back and help regulate it with the rest of the system, again, using the socio-emotional exchange system of interpersonal neurobiology. Again, why therapy works.

Christy, I've got to try a couple other people. I'm running out of time. Thank you so much. I'll look for that article. Yeah. That article? Is that the nature.com article? It must be.

You can email it to me and I'll let you know if that's what it looks like. Okay. If that is, then I added it to the website. And if people want to actually read it, then they just have to go to the link that's going to be at the bottom of the screen. It's, where is it it's uh drdrew.com slash 6222023 okay bringing i i'm pulling liberty up we'll see if uh liberty gets there should be good liberty hello dr drew How are you?

Hey there. What's happening? Thanks a lot. I have two topics I wanted to see which one you might want to address. You said your call's on any topic, and I'm not sure if that might be political or just entirely medical, but I'll start with the medical question. Okay. I wanted to have your thoughts regarding social media censorship and health issues and whether you see any inherent risks or dangers associated with that. That's my first question.

Are there inherent risks and dangers associated with social media? Is that what you say? With curtailing robust and open discussion about health issues on social media. Are there health consequences of curtailing robust dialogue? I mean, it seems to me it would all be second order or indirect in the sense that, again, when you shut down conversations, when you sort of reduce access to all information, people get paranoid. They don't know who to trust. They go to alternative sources. And yes, that can have a significant effect on on health it seems to me i mean we're we live in a time we've got

to restore health in medicine and excuse me trust in medicine and trust in public health and to me that's about examining everything right i i i i do appreciate that yes i am yes i am i um i thought of that question within within the context of of covid but i intended it more generally obviously um okay and i agree um are you are you fielding uh political questions as well or just medical go ahead let's hear what you got. Well, I'll tell you what's got me concerned this week. And if it's a little bit off topic, you just let me know right away. The Biden administration.

If I can't comment, I will. Go ahead. Sorry. Okay. Fair enough. Biden administration. Fair enough. Okay.

They gifted the Ayatollah's regime $3 billion. $3 billion. And the apparent, incidentally, they did it for the reasons of helping to alleviate COVID, which is bizarre because there's no COVID in Iran Iran and everybody knows that money goes towards terrorism. And that's got me concerned because the 2024 election is just around the corner. And the concern is that a percentage of that money gets kicked back into our election system. Well, again, to me, this goes back to the idea of free access to information. The problem is you don't trust where this money's going because you don't feel like you're getting

a full disclosure from the government of what they're doing. And, you know, of course, you can have all kinds of thoughts about what might be happening, where the money might be going. And it all sounds bad to me too. I agree with you. And I, there's just so many examples of, you know, RFK said one thing, and I just, this one thing that, that really struck me that I will not soon forget. Somebody asked him, you know, how are you going to get, I think it was some question like, how are you going to get people to trust the government? He goes, just make, just be honest. That's it. Oh, no, it was actually the question was, how are you going to get America to trust the government he goes just make just be honest that's it oh no it was actually the question was how are you going to get america to unite and he said it required the government to be honest if the government is just honest in at all times and you know carefully um reasonably thoroughly transparent there will not be such disagreement there we won't be falling

apart all the time the way we are and fighting with one another. Let me get Ann in here. I think what he had said may have been even more forceful because he said he wants the government to stop lying, which is an active, like, stop telling us lies. Well, it's the same thing as tell the truth. I mean, for goodness s it it's it's it is not maybe a step between those two where it's like they need to stop lying first and then go to telling the truth they're they're actively telling us things that aren't accurate right exactly all right um i wanted to get steven up here really quick we talked to him yesterday we're getting one back in here i've got very limited time left and i thought I could squeeze him in.

Stephen is another internist, and I'd be curious to hear some of his thoughts. Stephen. Yeah. Limited time, my friend. Limited time, and I enjoy talking to you, so let's get this going. Okay. There is a tribe in Papua New Guinea that doesn't believe in aging or disease as natural phenomena. They believe that they are naturally immortal and healthy, and anything else is caused by witchcraft.

And so when they get sick, when they get old, certainly when they die, they look for the witch. And the punishment for witchcraft are exactly what you imagine. They torture and kill people. And I wonder if that's kind of the natural state of the human race. I wonder if, I've seen so much looking for the witch in this polarized country that I wonder if we're sort of back to that. And I have seen so many conspiracy theories that I can't even name them, and you can name them better than I do, but they all go down to finding someone to blame for something

in our very mechanical universe. We live in a very mechanical universe someone is not to blame for everything uh and and you shouldn't look for malice when you can explain it with inattention or neglect or carelessness or all those things that we all know about so there's my little philosophical um no i listen i i think you're on to something i've always tried to figure out an evolutionary explanation for child sacrifice uh and the way it was has been practiced in in antiquity which is usually taking the best genetic specimen i mean that that makes no sense from a from an evolutionary standpoint and uh killing you know the best genetic endowments that the population has that that is so contrary to

evolutionary impulse i would think that there's got to be something you know again it's blaming something it's offering something it's sacrificing. All these things that humans do to try to gain control of this system. You're saying it's mechanistic, the universe, but it's also capricious and unpredictable and probabilistic. And humans don't like probabilities. Our brains do terrible things with probabilities. We don't do well with it. You try to placate the universe by giving it something, the most

valuable thing you have, which is a kid. That doesn't make sense. That's so insane. How could that really, you know, it's just crazy. But it's just as insane as trying to find a witch. Yep. Yeah. So it's when our emotional systems,

our primitive systems take over that we start doing. Now, by the way, inf exists in uh in our primate heritages our primate relatives um behaviors as well but it's a little more it doesn't seem so purposeful but maybe i don't know you know sometimes i wonder if we it's it's always the monkey right in the elephant right our prefrontal cortices, our conscious brain trying to make sense of our impulses. Maybe we make up these things that we're saying to ourselves to make sense of these stupid impulses that make no sense.

Well, there are tribes of chimpanzees that go and kill infants from other tribes, and the bonobos chimps don't seem to do any of that, so it's very complicated. Yep. It's complicated, exactly. All right, thank you for calling, Steve. Appreciate it very much. Appreciate all of you for spending

a little time with us and taking calls. We appreciate Bobby Chacon coming in and giving us some explanation of what his opinion is, went down in the tragedy in this submersible, which went down to examine the Titanic. Again, it's just an unthinkable.

It gets all my anxieties going, so it's hard for me to even think about it, I must say. But in any event, let's put the upcoming shows up here, Caleb. We have, I know, Tom Rents coming in on Wednesday. He is the attorney that's been looking at all the FOIA documents, got some interesting insights, and particularly want to drill in on the idea that some of this gain-of-function funding that our government engaged in was counter-espionage. He sort of hinted that there may be something

like that going on there. John Bowden is the gentleman from Massachusetts that was looking at death certificate data and trying to make sense of that. July 3rd, Vivek Ramaswamy coming in. Should be an interesting conversation. And July 5th, Kat Lindley. So until we are today, Thursday, so Tuesday, correct, Caleb?

Three o'clock Pacific time. We will see you then. Ask Dr. Drew is produced by Caleb Nation and Susan Pinsky. As a reminder, the discussions here are not a substitute for medical care, diagnosis, or treatment. This show is intended for educational and informational purposes only. I am a licensed physician, but I am not a replacement for your personal doctor, and I am not practicing medicine here.

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