Barn Talk - A Life's Journey In Real Estate w/Jeff Hazelett

Episode Date: October 25, 2022

Welcome to Barn Talk. What happens at the barn stays in the barn until now… We’re gonna let it all out for you guys. Today is gonna be a damn good one. Our guest today is Jeff Hazelett, a real estate ninja. He's been involved in all aspects of real estate from selling, investing, franchising and developing, you name it he’s probably done it.  He also knows a ton of successful people in real estate across the nation. He’s also been a mentor to my brother and I on our own real estate journey. Giving some tips and tricks and also bringing us a deal or two. But before we get into it, pay the fee! Barn Talk Merch! 👇🏻 https://www.thislldo.co/ SUBSCRIBE TO THE PODCAST ➱ https://bit.ly/3a7r3nR SUBSCRIBE TO THIS’LL DO FARM ➱ https://bit.ly/2X8g45c SUBSCRIBE TO BARN TALK CLIPS ➱ https://bit.ly/3BlZnqq LISTEN ON: SPOTIFY ➱ https://open.spotify.com/show/3icVr4KWq4eUDl7Oy60YMY ITUNES ➱ https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/barn-talk/id1574395049 Follow Behind The Scenes👇🏻 ● This’ll Do Farm Instagram ➱ https://bit.ly/30KPBNk ● Barn Talk TikTok ➱ https://bit.ly/3qciekS ● Sawyer’s Instagram  ➱ https://bit.ly/3BtX0n4 ● Tork’s Instagram ➱ https://bit.ly/3LGZJxS ------------------------------- ***PLEASE NOTE*** Barn Talk is a significant break from the typical content viewers have come to expect from This’ll Do Farm. Please be advised that we will be exploring a wide variety of topics (some adult-themed) and our younger viewers (and their parents) should be advised that some topics will be for mature audiences only. ⚠NO FINANCIAL ADVICE / DISCLAIMER⚠ The Information discussed and shared on Barn Talk is provided for educational, informational, and entertainment purposes only, without any express or implied warranty of any kind, including warranties of accuracy, completeness, or success for any particular purpose. The Information contained in or provided from or through this podcast is not intended to be and does not constitute financial advice, investment advice, trading advice, or any other advice. The Information on this podcast and provided from or through our content is general in nature and is not specific to you, the user or anyone else. You should not make any decision, financial, investment, trading or otherwise, based on any of the information presented on this podcast without undertaking independent due diligence and consultation with a professional, professional broker or financial advisory. Understand that you are using any and all Information available on or through this website at your own risk. RISK STATEMENT– The trading of Bitcoins, alternative cryptocurrencies, NFTs, individual stocks, etc. has potential rewards, and it also has potential risks involved. Trading may not be suitable for all people. Anyone wishing to invest should seek his or her own independent financial or professional advice. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

All of the food we eat and much of the clothing we wear comes from plants and animals that are raised on farms. Farms are different in type, in size, and even in name. Welcome to Barn Talk. What happens that the barn stays in the barn until now. We're going to let it all out for you guys. Today is going to be a damn good episode. Today, our guest is a real estate ninja. He's been in all aspects of real estate from investing to selling in real estate, to developing real estate, to franchise in real estate. he also knows a shitload of people that are involved in the real estate industry a lot of successful investors a lot of people just wanting to buy homes for themselves to live in all different walks of life all different backgrounds he's just an all-and-all really great guy and somebody that's helped my brother

and i out on our own real estate journey somebody we can always go to uh for advice somebody that's always given us his honest opinion and feedback giving us some tips and tricks um he's also brought a couple deals to us so he's a really stand-up guy and i'm really really hype about this episode. I think if you're somebody looking into getting to real estate or if it's something that's interest to you ever, this is going to be a damn good episode for you. I think there's going to be a lot of value. But before we get into that, you guys know the drill. Pay the fee. If you get any value from the show, share it out with your friends, family, co-workers, employees, whoever, we're trying to do some good in this world. We're trying to grow this thing. The more you guys share the show,

the more it gets bigger, the better guests we can get on and just the better quality content that we're going to be putting out. So share, share, share, share, share if you guys get any value. Keep paying the fee, guys. We really appreciate every single one of you that have been doing that. And then without further ado, let's get into it. Jeff Hazett, welcome to Barn Talk. Hey, appreciate it.

How are you this morning? Absolutely fantastic. It's a bit nippily up here. I do apologize. We had to get some space heater for Mason Moore. And Jeff is literally in the hot seat, as you could say. We got two space heaters on him. The lukewarm seat.

We had to bundle up. We got the chance to bundle up. and I tried to warn Jeff best I could that, hey, this isn't quite heated yet, but we do got some space heaters, but they're not, they're doing an okay job, not the greatest job. That's about it. It's crazy because by Saturday it'll be T-shirt weather around here. And when we plan this, you know, you got to plan ahead and we thought, yeah, it'll work. And then yesterday afternoon, I'm looking at the forecast. I'm like, this is not going to be good. It's not going to be good. And I was just thinking that Mike Hansen can identify to this. So if any of you remember the episode that we had Mike Hansen,

who's the owner of Barn Tools on, he showed up in dress slacks and loafers. And the weather took a turn that day and got colder through the interview. And I'm pretty sure his lips were blue by the time we were done. And fortunately, he didn't get pneumonia. But we got some heat on Jeff today, so we're going to try to keep him thought out. And I'm just going to run my mouth as much as possible and put out as much hot air as I can. So anyway, well, Jeff, it is a pleasure to have you on here. And you've got a really interesting story in the fact that you've been in about every facet of real estate. Why don't you just give us a little background at like how you got started and then we'll go from there? Well, you know, Tork, it's been, I've been in the business now 33, four years

somewhere in that vicinity. So it's a pretty long story. I can go back to the beginning. beginning, beginning, I can jump into the middle of it. It is, it is kind of interesting how I even got started. Yeah, I think that's a really interesting story that people would enjoy. Let me start and go back here. I graduated high school in 85. Like everybody, I went to college for a little bit thinking that that was the direction to go because I knew nothing else to do. I didn't even know what I wanted to be. I'll still even wake up now at age 55 and wonder, huh, what do I want to do today? What do I want to be. But anyway, so I graduated here, went down to Iowa Weston for a little while. Started out as a phys ed major. I knew I wanted to coach, but I knew that I wouldn't be able to teach

something like math. I really didn't apply myself enough in high school. So if there's anything that I can tell the kids, apply yourself, do what you're supposed to do in school. I didn't do it. I am pretty proud of the fact that I did make the honor roll my senior year, three hours of woodworking, one hour of PE, four A's honor roll. Yeah, that's pretty. I can identify. Japers. But anyway, so went down to Iowa Westin for a little while. Started dating my wife now. We actually graduated high school together, but didn't date in high school. And so then she was going to school in Cedar Rapids. So I followed her. That's what all guys have to do. You follow the girl around. So I went to Cedar Rapids. I was actually working at a Sinclair gas station on Mount Vernon Road pumping gas.

That's back in the day when customer service was really customer service. You got to get out from behind the counter, go out, wash the windshields. check the oil, check the tires, those kind of things. I will tell you that's probably one of the first places that I really started to be able to learn how to interact and build rapport. You know, when I'm working with some of the kids today or the kids that come in and do the OJT or the restals that I worked with, that's the one thing that I try to pass on, learn how to interact with people.

You know, especially it's tougher for younger people, maybe to talk to somebody older, but learn how to interact. myself, I learned how to do it probably just through failure, because I was shy in high school, I was always felt embarrassed. But learn how to interact with people. I don't care what you want to do in life. If you can learn how to interact with people,

you'll be successful, period. Don't you feel like given the amount of time that kids today spend on devices, that that's a skill that's probably gotten worse even from when we were in school, I see so many kids today that really, struggle when you want to have a one-on-one conversation with them because they're just, they don't have that, they have way less experience with it than even we did, because at least

we had situations where you had to, which in hindsight, it was good we had those. No question. Interact with people. Get off the phones so much. Get away from the computers. I don't know. That's a trend, obviously, that has advanced further and further and further. And who knows if we can go back to it, but we really need to, you know, put down the phones. we'll talk about technology and all that kind of stuff and how important it is and what a change that it's made and how great it is but the flip side of that is the lack of interaction amongst people yeah no question even in families you know you can go into a restaurant today and just sit there and watch for a little while where the kids boom the phone's out what are the parents doing phones out

yeah so i refuse i refuse to give my kid an iPad i see that all the time when i go to the restaurant you bet mom gets her purse out gives the iPad to the youngest kid he's on the there, that's all he's doing. Yep. It's sad. I will not do it. I refuse. They'll probably hate me for it, but I refuse.

They'll hit a certain age, then they'll get it. Yep. Well, I've deviated from my story. So here I am pumping gas, sinclair gas station, Mount Vernon Road, going out, helping the customers. There was a very, very nice lady that used to always come in. She's always just dressed to the tea. Nice car, always clean. Build her, built some rapport, got to know her a little bit.

and one day she says to me, she says, you need to meet my husband. I think that you would be good with what I do. I had no idea what that even meant. So through more conversations, finally I said, okay. And so I went and met her husband. He was the manager of a real estate company. At the time, it was Midland Partners,

was the name of the company. And so I met him. And he kind of encouraged me, discouraged me a little bit. He says, I think you could do what we do. But he says, you know, you're young. You're not from. I'm here and you know nothing about real estate, which was 100% true.

You know, I grew up in a small town of 200. I'll tell you, I used to get lost just trying to drive to Iowa City. So, you know, here I am in a bigger city. He was correct. I knew nothing. Absolutely. I should never even think about getting in the real estate business. Well, regardless, that conversation led to another conversation.

I had a meeting with them. I actually went back and took a test. At the time, I didn't know what the test was. But later on, I figured out it must have been some type of an aptitude test. apparently it must have gone okay because they asked me back and so went back again had another meeting same story we think you could do this but you know you're young you're not from here you know nothing about real estate really i knew nothing about people or life or anything but they said hey would you know at the time i wasn't married but would you bring your girlfriend the two of you come back

we want to introduce you to the general manager all right so we go back same kind of story listen we think you could do this but you're young you're not from me you're not from you're not from you're here, you know nothing. And I kept thinking, well, why do they keep saying that to me? But yet they keep bringing me back. So after that meeting, then I got a phone call. They bring me in and they said, listen, we think you could do this. We would like to offer you basically a job. But you got to remember in the real estate world, it's not a job. Yeah. You're an independent contractor. So the only way you ever make money is if you make a sale, you help somebody buy something, you help somebody sell something. There's an opportunity. And that was it. No question. And so I still remember

that to this day, they said, listen, you need to have six months worth of income saved up to live because you're probably not going to make any sales to have any type of an income. You know, there's no paycheck coming. I didn't have six days worth of money saved up. I mean, we were broke, broke. You know, we were both going to school. I was pumping gas. Kim was working at Kay's merchandise in the jewelry department. You know, we barely had enough money to just even get by. Really, you didn't have enough to even do that. But regardless, lo and behold, I decided to get in the real estate business. Not sure why. What? actually made me do it except that it was interesting. But they were right. I knew nothing.

So I will tell you back then, you know, in 85 when we graduated from high school, there was really no computers. So I wasn't computer savvy. So everything that you had to learn came from tapes or books or going to seminars. And so me and one of my best friends, Darrell High from high development out of Cedar Rapids, we started about the same time. He was 18 and I was 19. We were in an office of 55 agents, and we were the youngest two people there. Most of them were older. You know, back then, a lot of people came from another career into real estate. Teachers or whatever it might be would then go into real estate. And here we are two young guys coming in, not knowing a thing. So that's how I kind of got into it. And so I was in Cedar Rapids for about a year and a half.

Then I moved back here. I didn't immediately go into real estate, but then after about nine months of working in a factory, and I thought, pooh, I know that's not for me. I know that's not for me. I'm going to go back to the real estate world. So I did. So I worked with Jim H. at Goldencrest Realty for a couple of years. Then in 93, we purchased Washington Real Estate, which was the oldest existing real estate company at the time, ran that from 93 until 2008. So in 2008, I thought I wanted to go out into the world and do some more building and stuff. So I was kind of a general contractor, started building some things in some different areas. Learned very quickly after about a you're doing that, that that was definitely not what I wanted to do. I like to be at home every night.

I didn't like all the traveling. The money was fantastic, but that wasn't for me. Yep, I wanted to be home. And you, you quickly learn that a town or even the world, it doesn't stop when you decide to do something different. And in nine months, you just kind of get covered up. You know, the town keeps proceeding. It keeps going. People are still doing what they got to do every day. You're just not a part of it. And you can quickly be forgotten just like that. Yep. So anyway, I never gave up my real estate license, but in 2008 I sold the real estate company, Washington real estate, to Patty Ellett, who was one of our agents. And then I can't remember the year, but they changed the name from Washington real estate

to Elliott Realty Group. And so then I just kind of came back, got back into the business, got back into the group of things. And so I actually just worked there. They hold my license. A broker has to hold your license. and so I'm called a broker-associate's what I am. Yeah. Nice. Right back to it. Same thing.

I just go back out and I help people, help buyers, sellers, and so forth. Yeah. So you've been a real estate agent for a long time. But at the time, when was your first time like investing in real estate? Because I know you do that as well. So what's the journey on that? Were you being a salesman at the same time of trying to get into investing? Like, what does that look like?

The very first property, ever purchased, I purchased it with Daryl High, and it was on 10th Avenue on the southeast side of Cedar Rapids. If you're familiar with Cedar Rapids at all, there's some beautiful, incredibly nice areas on the southeast side, and there's also some areas that may be a little bit rougher. We purchased the first house that I ever was a part of in a little bit rougher area. And I can tell you, I want to say we paid $8,000 for. it. Wow. That was the first property. That was my first experience. And I will tell you it was a nightmare.

You know, you see all this stuff on the internet, how great real estate is. And it is. You know, real estate's made many, many, many people lots and lots of money. But I laugh at some of the stuff I see maybe on TikTok or on YouTube. Hey, I just bought my third property. My wife and I are cash flow in $6,000 a month. We quit our jobs. Let me tell you, it is not all like that. As a matter of fact, we could talk all day of some of the stories because, you know, fortunately, we own several properties. You know, at one time we had built 24 units, the condos up on the North 18th. I can tell you some stories. But to go back to that very first one, and I haven't thought about that place forever, the gentleman that we rented to, we didn't know it at the time until we had to go through the process of evicted him.

He had a collection of snakes. Oh, geez. I'm not talking the little gardener snakes. It was the real snakes. the big snakes. So the story could go on and on about what it took for us to get him out. But once we got him out, then we had to deal with what he had left, destroyed the place, all that kind of stuff.

You would think from that first experience, you'd never do it again. Yep. But you learned. Knowing what real estate can do and how it can help a person, then we kept proceeding. And you just learn. And I'm going to tell you can read all the books you want, watch all the videos you want. You don't learn the stuff.

that way. You learn it from experiences. What's the best way for, if you're someone's out there thinking about getting into it, what is, with the knowledge you know now, what's the best way to get into real estate investing? Because you went and bought your first property, it was a nightmare. If you could go back, what would, what would you, what would you have bought for your first property? Like what, what do you look for for that first property? The property itself or the advice going into it, because both, you know, the advice going into it, again, you know, you know, get some education, talk to people, you know, like you guys, like what you and your brother have done,

what other people have done, surround yourself with people that can help you, get started right, like an attorney, like a banker, you know, a CPA person, listen to them, set things up properly from the front side instead of going through all the little nuances that created conflict from the beginning, from trying to just learn it, learn it, at the end of the day, that's going to be the best way. You're just going to learn stuff there. But, you know, get help from some people and then figure out prior to starting what your end game is. Why are you buying it? What are you trying to accomplish? What's the end goal? You know, are you going to buy one single family, two single families? You want a duplex, you know, multifamily, commercial. You know, what's going to work best for you and what you can

actually do? You know, are you going to grow to the point to where you've got 20 units and now you need somebody, help, like a property management of some sort. But that's really the key is figure out what you think you want your end picture to look like. And really that's good. I think that's good information for a lot of things. You know, and I tell kids that I work with from time and time too, start with the end in mind. You know, what's that ultimate end game? What's the goal here and just start working it backwards? You're like with wrestling and so forth. You know, a lot of kids, well, I want to be a state champ. all right start with that end in mind if that's the end when is that going to be you know if you're just new into the world of wrestling it's probably not going to be tomorrow it's going to take a lot of

time and a lot of work so then just start going piece it backwards to where you are today and then go forward so that becomes your little plan of action yeah yeah it's it's it's so true that it really doesn't matter you know people love using sports analogies but and it's because no matter what your goal is, there's certain things within life that the lessons apply to everything. Everything. And, you know, if you're going to start with that, find people that are successful at it and do what they did. Copy them. And the other thing I'll say is, and you, I think you would agree with this. So, you know, that first rental you had, it would have been great if it would have gone better. But at the same time, what went wrong with that probably taught you as much as everything that went right did.

You know, in my own life, I've learned way more from the many mistakes that I've made than I have for everything that went right. Everyone does. When you learn enough hard lessons, then when something goes right, it's like, wow, that was a lot easier. You know, it's just, yeah, I think the long term in whatever you do, whether you want to start a business, going to real estate, get a physique, in a sport, whatever, long game always. I'm always thinking about the long game, the long game, long game, long game. Yeah, and another thing that I think our society, for some reason, has really put a burden upon not only young people. Some of this is generational because today I don't feel like it maybe is as much on the job side. But, you know, for us, it was like, okay, well, if you're going to, if you're going to, if you're going to, if you're

going to work at a factory, you're going to work at a factory, that's your identity. You're going to do that your whole life. And if you quit, people look at you like, oh my gosh, you know, why do he, what's he going to do now? Or if you are X, Y, Z, don't be so, if you try something, don't be afraid to try something. And if it doesn't work, pivot and do something else. And that's something where my generation, that was kind of looked down upon. If you started down the path of doing something and then you realize that that wasn't your passion and you wanted to change, it was kind of frowned upon. Whereas today, I think people are a lot more, a lot more receptive to like trying to have a good life and not being miserable. Yeah, 100%. I think a lot of that comes

from the fact that information is so readily available today. You know, go back 30 years to when you didn't have the Internet, you didn't have the phones, you didn't have all the computers, you didn't have all the information's available today, so that thought wasn't put into your mind. Right. That I could do something different. Oh, there is a better way.

Yeah. So you've got to come across somebody who either shares that. Well, now that person coming across, that's TikTok. That's, you know, all social media. That's, well, that's this right here. that's the barn talk that's what you guys going out and and all of a sudden that light bulb goes off oh well it didn't go off because i came up with it it went off because somebody stuck something in my mind right 100% yeah i i always say there's a lot of bad to social media but the one good thing that it has taught me the most is it shows you what's possible no question i'm small

town kids we're all kids from small town in southeast iowa and i'm just i'm grateful that i was born in this era because of that reason alone. I see what's possible. And social media has given me that. Because most people that grow up here before the internet, like, this is, if you didn't get outside of here, this is all you knew. And whoever was successful here is all you knew. What do what their parents told them to do or what their parents were doing? Yeah. Yeah. No question. Yeah. Curious, I was just thinking about this. You said when you started, you know, in out of the the 50-some agents that were in that brokerage. You two were the youngest.

And part of that, don't you think, was because people came to real estate later because you had to build, you had to build that base of people that you knew because there was no social media. And part of being a successful agent is being known to where when people are looking to buy or sell a house,

they know, oh, Jeff Hazel that sells houses and I know him. Back then, the only way that you had, had a group of people that knew you is if you did something else before you got into it into real estate and you know i think when when when they hired you guys or when they brought you guys on that was pretty forward thinking and they really were taking a chance because they knew that you were different in the fact that when they brought somebody in young you didn't know anybody. Correct. And so you, but it also, if you had started five years before that, it would have been even a harder climb because the technology and the social media was just

starting as you came into it. So really, it was good timing. Still pretty early, though, really. But I think you said a little bit earlier, tell us about when you got internet, your first experience having the internet in your, in your, uh, really office. You know, I remember the year specifically, uh, this would have been Washington real estate. We got the internet. This was 1996. So yes, we got computers. We're not doing a whole lot with computers. Um, but in 1996, we got the internet. We didn't use it for six months. So we actually canceled the subscription. You can't even use it. You know, you can laugh today thinking, you know, because now if your phone isn't Or can, you know, your days messed up.

Or if you can't log onto your computers, you know, well, might as well just go home. I know we don't do that, but that's kind of the way you feel. Yeah. But yeah, we canceled the subscription because we weren't even using it. And I think at the time might have been $29.99 a month or something. Yeah. Who wants to waste $29 if you.

Well, and there was no, there was no, like there was no MLS online. There was no Zillow. There was no, I think we talked earlier, like at, that time, the thickest part of the Des Moines Sunday register was the real estate section. And it was nothing but ad after ad after ad. And if you really wanted to spend money on your listing, you'd have a little black and white photo. And that was how people found house. That and if somebody was looking for a house on Sunday, all right, honey, let's go drive around and see what's for sale. Yep. Because that's the only way you knew what was out there. You used around, you looked for the

for sale sites. Yeah. You know, back in the earlier days, you know, the MLS, it was there, but it wasn't really there. So that's why you would go by and you would see three or four real estate signs in a person's yard. Oh, sure. Yeah. Everybody got to go list it. Yeah. Obviously things have evolved since then and now we have the multiple listing service.

But just like the Des Moines Register, when you go back and you can look, you know, think how thick those little real estate books used to be. I used to love when we traveled. I'd always grab that's the first thing I would do when we'd go into a new area when we were going somewhere. I wanted to see what's going on the real estate world. Well, that was the only way you knew what real estate prices would do. You go on vacation and say. Now they don't even have those anymore. What's this ranch house bringing here?

What's this ranch house bringing here? That is crazy to me. What do you like more? Do you like being an agent more or do you like the investment development side more? What do you like to do? You know, it's changed over time. You know, back in the beginning, obviously it was an agent. And when I left being an agent for a while and was going into the development world as far as

building some commercial properties, I'd gotten away from some of that. And I focused a little bit more on the investment side of things. And then I started to miss it. So once I came back, and I'll tell you, when you do something long enough, especially when you deal with people,

you kind of start to get a little bit worn out maybe. And I'd kind of gotten there, but once I left it and came back, then I started to really appreciate it. Then it was more fun working with people. But the investment side is still fascinating. There's no question. It's definitely a more, it's a lonelier business.

Oh, gosh. I mean, that's the thing that people that are, I mean, you're basically self-employed. And when you're, when you're acquiring rentals or acquiring property and managing property, doing that stuff yourself, sometimes when everything is going great, it's very rewarding. but when the pipes break and the renters do bad things or don't pay, boy, it feels like you are totally alone where when you're used to the agent side that your business is really interact, you know, being known to people and interacting with people, the social side of it is kind of polar opposite because on the one hand, you're very connected with a lot of people.

On the other hand, it can be very just like all on you. All on you. Yeah. Exactly. So my question earlier, you answered the mindset side of it. But like, let's say there's some person out there because I think there's a lot of people that listen and watch that are intrigued by real estate and real estate investing specifically because they're looking to diversify.

So if somebody wants to become a real estate millionaire and they want to get started, what is your advice to them? What should they be going after? What property should they be buying? what should they be looking for, that kind of thing? It's going to be different in every area. Yeah. And just, you know, when you say millionaire, you know, that takes time.

Yes. That's the one thing that people probably see or they've seen somebody else that's got the bigger house and the nicer cars and the bigger yachts and all that kind of stuff. And they find out they've made their money from real estate. They didn't do it overnight. It takes time. Again, have a plan. But what's available to you in your area going outside the area? because really the next adventure that I think my wife and I are going to go down,

and we're at the age now to where... You don't like being cold? Can you tell I'm shivering? I'm hoping maybe the... Now you're holding it together. You're holding it together. You're holding it together. It doesn't pick that up.

It's chilly. Yeah. And I'm kind of wimpy. But anyway, I lost my train of thought because of the coldness now. You just put that into my head. You said you guys are kind of at the age. I think our next adventure that we're really starting to spend time studying now and reading and watching and listening.

is probably the short-term rental business. That's an avenue that I think just lends itself for stuff that we've already done. You know, I've made the comment a couple of times. I wish we would have started buying properties in other areas. When I say other areas, other states, at a sooner time frame and maybe not bought as much as we have here, even though I'm glad.

On the flip side of that, you know, I've said for years and years and years, I wish we would have bought more. And I will tell you, here's one interesting concept that I go back and forth with a friend of mine who's probably bought six, seven, eight properties here. And we say, we used to always say, oh, it's too high. It's too high. I've been saying that for 25 years. It's too high. It's too high. That is 100% wrong because real estate hasn't gone backwards. Yes, you have fluctuations,

just like you do in the stock market. It's up, it's down, but it's not going back. And here's what's interesting. Back in 1993, the average sale price. You want to guess what it was? The average sale price in 1993? $47,000. Are you serious? Did you already read that or you know that? No. I just was thinking like, no way. No, I was, I was thinking, okay, it's got to be a lot lower than, because my just off the cuff was like, oh, probably like $95,000. And then I thought, no, my guess is it's way lower than what I think it is because all the, everything that's happened in that amount of time. It's hot. Big points. Is this spot on 47,000? No. You know, and I could have made a little fiv up there and said that it was spot on, but it's darned close.

49,000. Yeah, wow. 49 is the average in 1993. It's crazy. Today it's about 120. So you can see where it's gone from 93 until now. So it's, you know, like I said, it may go backward at some point. And they pull itself back, but... That's saying something because the Midwest is typically your least volatile. Oh, no question. Compared to the coast. The coasts.

Yeah. So to see that kind of change in that market, that tells you how much more it's moved at the outside. But with talking to you, and I didn't mention this in the intro, but Jeff has been a mentor to Clay and I on our real estate journey. And he's always somebody that we go to, gives us some tips and tricks. He's given it. He's helped us out on a property or two.

So he's somebody we can always go to and we've had conversations in the past, but you've always said, I wish I would have bought more. But something that you've said in previous conversations is interest rates were crazy high back when you were getting started. And it's looking like we're heading to that time. Do you still, would you still have bought with that kind of interest rate if you could? If the property will work. Yeah.

And it's all relevant. If the rates are higher, your rents are going to be higher because the values are values actually go down when rates go up. Some people say, well, that's not possible. Well, sure it is. You know, I can only pay for so much, you know, when I borrow money. So here's, and I wish I would have wrote down some of these stats in here, the difference of what a payment would be, but if you've got a $100,000 property and you

bought it, you know, three years ago and you got a rate on a secondary market of two and a half percent. and today that secondary market is seven. Well, let's just say your payment was $612 back then. Today that payment's probably $900 on the same $100,000 property. So the rents have got to fluctuate also to match it. Do we ever have properties that don't cash flow? Sure, we do.

Because maybe you're looking at it for a longer term or you're waiting until you can refinance it to bring the rate down to bring your payment down to match the rents. But the rents will. And right now is an interesting time. you know, with the market changing, we'll talk about what the market was before to where it is today, just in a short period of time. But, you know, people could only afford so much. So if I could afford a $1,500 a month payment, maybe that bought me a $250,000 property.

Well, that same $1,500 now, because the rates are higher, is going to get me a lot less of a property. So the rents have got to match up with that. But if you start to look at it as a bigger picture, if I can afford a certain amount of money, and now that house isn't available, what do I do? I'm no longer a home buyer. I'm a renter. So if I'm a renter, the demand goes up. If the demand for rentals goes up, what goes along with it?

The rents do. So everybody would think, oh, values are coming down, rents are going to come down. No, it's almost the exact opposite. Right now in the new construction world, the hottest sector, if you can say hottest, that's not the right word to use. I'm just thinking about my legs burning, but my top half being cold here as I sit here. You know, the most active sector at the present moment is multifamily. Yep. Why?

Because rents are going up. So now you can make the numbers look better. Yeah, 100%. Because you got a whole group of people that have basically dropped out of the new home purchases. and they're going to wait it out. They're going to wait until they can get, until I either get that promotion or hoping that the Fed wakes up

and turns around, which I don't think that's going to happen. So what is your thoughts on everyone is saying we're either in a recession or we're going into a recession here shortly. What are your thoughts? Do you think that 2008's upon us?

Do you think that the housing market's going to crash? What are your thoughts on that? And how can people capital? in the times that we're going into. That was about 10 questions in one right there. So let me comment about the recession. Do I think that we're going into a recession? I don't because I think we're already there.

I think all the characteristics of a recession are here. Now, you know, we're almost, if you look at like the stock market, we're almost always six months behind. And so the stock market has already basically reflected some things that are going on at the present moment. You know, some economists or some people will say, well, we think a recession's coming. Well, all the typical characteristics of what a recession is were basically in all those at the present moment. You know, the Dow's, what's the Dow's back? Let me just think if I can remember some of these.

Now, we've had two good days here, but two good days doesn't make a market or a year or a rally or anything like that. Is the Dow off 27%? Yeah, it was off almost 30%. It's the 30%. The S&P's off around the 20%. That's a that's a characteristics of a recession. So we're already there. High inflation.

We're there. Interest rates, we know where they are. 7% if you're looking at the secondary market. The thing is there's a saving grace even with the interest rates. And this is where we're so fortunate with our local banks. You can still go to them and do an in-house loan. Now they've changed some of them.

You can lock them in for a three year, five, year, seven-year period. I think maybe even some have a longer time frame. That's what I personally would advise people to do. Like right now, if you wanted to go out and buy a property, well, your rental property isn't going to go secondary market anyway. It's going to be an in-house loan. Just take the longest time frame the bank will give you. You're probably at four and a half percent, maybe five. Who's not going to borrow money at five percent? I think a comment was made, you know,

back in the day, look where the rates were. We've been here before. This isn't nothing new. It's just going to take a little time to work through it. There is a whole generation of people, though, that have never experienced that. Because we have the same thing in ag. We have a whole generation of farmers that started right when we were coming out of LDP and corn and corn was a buck 60 and we hit that we hit that rise the first time when corn got up high and then we dropped back down but we were still having $3.50 corn, $4 corn and now then we've hit it again but now we've got interest and that's where you know there's a lot of people that have never experienced this where people who have definitely have some value to give.

And one thing I wanted to, I'm kind of jumping around, but one thing I wanted to touch on is, because you brought this up about local banks, somebody that's starting out, because we say this all the time, but somebody that's starting out, I don't care what you're looking to do, what do you see as the value,

and you might be a hair bias, but you also have a lot of experience. I might be. What's the value of, of having a local banker versus banking at a large, a large bank, because I feel like this is the time where those local banks shine. Huge. Donald Trump's word, huge.

No question about it. And I tell you, I'll tell you know what, when they come here and maybe they've come from a different state and the bigger banks, the Wells Fargoes or those kind of things, I'm not picking on them by any means because they all serve a purpose. But there is tremendous value in building a relationship at your local bank. And we've got great people at our local banks. I am biased a little bit because of where my wife works. But I will tell you through my years, I have worked with every single bank.

I have borrowed money from every single bank. They're all fantastic. And when you can sit across the table and do what we're doing and build a relationship with your local bank, if something, maybe it doesn't, all the numbers don't exactly, work, they can probably help you. Well, there is no problem. They will help you. So there's tremendous value in building a relationship with a local bank.

I think a big thing that holds people back from getting into real estate is they instantly think debt, bad. I don't want any debt. It's bad. I don't want to do that, especially with the times that we're going in. So they're like, I'm only going to get into real estate and get an investment property if I have the cash to buy it all outright. Can you touch on that a little bit on how you can use debt to capitalize on real estate?

Like you don't necessarily have to buy it all outright. Very simple. Great question. I'll tell you, if you've got $100,000, well, you know, let's sit this way. We just talked about the average sale price back in 93B and 49. Today it's about 120. So let's say you're going to go out by a $120,000 property. You've got $120,000.

So if you do what you just said, I'm going to wait until. until I have all the cash. Fantastic. Okay. That $120,000 property, let's say it generates you after all your expenses, you net out $200 bucks a month.

So that $120,000 investment just made you $200 a month. I'm not that good at math, pretty good at simple math. That's not the best of return. But I could go to the bank, go to the local bank, and take that $120,000,

and I could buy a lot more than just one property. depending on what the bank wants down and so forth. Let's say they want the normal typical 20% down. Well, 20% of 120,000 is going to be 24,000. So in essence, I could buy five properties with what you just talked about. Now, I'm going to service some debt, take away the expenses. I guarantee you you put that down on paper, you're making a lot more money.

And what's the best part about real estate? We just talked about how values go up, don't we? So if I only buy the one with cash versus five that I financed, that isn't bad if you structure it right and you service it correctly. You manage the debt. That is the key. Any of your big time investors, all the guys you watch that are going to be on all your social media,

do you think they're buying stuff with that much cash? Oh no, they're leveraging their ability. And that's why they do as well as they do. That isn't bad. I don't mind debt at all, especially real estate debt. and I've said this for a long, long time. Where debt becomes an issue is debt on vehicles or debt on credit cards.

I just watch the show on Netflix, and this is what I love about Netflix. You can pull up all the documentaries. History 101 is the name of it. I'll get a little plug for Netflix. History 101. One of the episodes, like 25 minutes long, talked about credit cards. It is amazing. Take one guess.

How much credit card debt do we have in the United States? Oh, I can't even. See, now wait a minute. Now, you were really close earlier on the average sale price. Impress me again. I don't know if it's trillions. Oh, I think it is. I think it...

Billions. It's got to be hundreds of billions of dollars. 980 billion dollars. Let's get into a trillion. Yeah, close. That is insane. I couldn't even fathom that that would be the number. Yep.

But so you wonder what's one of the major problems in the world today? Well, besides us, we're a wanting society. You know, we always want, want, want, want and want. want. We live beyond our means. What allows us to live beyond our means? Credit cards. Yeah, and you know how powerful that it, the demand for that is when a company that we follow, Square, they paid big money to purchase after pay. And for people that don't know what that is, as a society, now we've got to the point that we, we, instead of just buying things on credit cards, we will buy something. We will buy something and put the company we buy it from will turn around and finance it,

and then you can put the monthly payment on your credit card. So in other words, I could go on and buy a $200 stereo speaker and charge $200 on my credit card. But because of afterpay, now I can go on there and I can buy that $200 speaker, and they're only going to charge me $43 a month for six months and then that payment. So you're basically paying a finance charge twice. And you're getting, they're putting interest on it. After pay puts interest on. After pay is making money because they're getting their interest on it. And then most of the people that are using after pay are turning

around and they're paying it on a credit card. So you've just up the ante again on consumer debt. It makes no sense, but they paid a ridiculous amount of money for it. And it's profitable. It's very profitable. I think there's a ton of people that do it. And, I've never used it. Every single, every single shop you see online now, they all have after pay. It's crazy. You can buy any consumer good and don't put anything down when you first buy it and just pay monthly for it. I've not heard of that. Yep. So it's just any item you want. You don't have to buy it now. You can buy it over a monthly. If you ask me in six months, it'll be a trillion dollars in consumer debt. Oh my. You know, I got to add to that because one of the craziest things that I have ever heard of is that larger companies, companies are now letting you take an advanced pay on the check that you're supposed to get.

You know, there used to always be the, get this, it used to be always be the, you know, you'd have more month left than you did income. Yep. Which meant, you know, you didn't have enough money to even really get through to the end of the month. Yep. Well, now they've shortened that time frame up by allowing you to take advanced pay. Larger companies do this. Target, others.

I'm not, but Target's the only one that I'm really familiar with, but I'm sure they're companies do. So you go online and you take an advance pay. So if you get paid every two weeks, so after you've worked for, you know, a day or two or three days, you've built up some pay that they owe you, but not for a couple weeks yet. You can go in and have that deposited into your account. Holy cast. So now you're not even having enough money to service not just the month, but it's really to the week. That might be one of the worst things I've ever heard. That's terrible. Yeah, it's a problem with our culture. And I mean, we've talked about it so many times on here. Just they want you to be a consumer. Every business wants you to be a consumer.

Academic, they want everybody wants you to be a consumer. They want you to not live very long. They want you to buy a bunch of shit and then capitalize on you and then pass away. That really just encourages poor decision making. No question. Because one of the earliest lessons that most everybody learns is when they move out on their own and they get a paycheck. When they get a job, they all think, this is great, and I'm making money. And then very soon they realize, no matter what that job is, no matter how good that paycheck is, it's really easy to outspend that paycheck. And within almost no time, everybody has to learn the hard lessons that, oh, we can't eat out as much as we thought. We can't buy all this stuff. And it's funny,

when I did construction, one of the smartest things that the company that I worked for did, it. When I started there, I turned all my tickets in on a Monday morning, and I had a check Monday afternoon. And I thought, holy cow, this is crazy. And I asked the bookkeeper, I said, is that how you do it? She's like, yeah, we pay every week and we pay on Monday. And I said, that's kind of unusual. She's like, yeah, well, we used to pay on Friday, but if you pay construction workers, if you pay on Friday, by Monday, everybody's broke. But if you pay them on Monday, by Friday, they don't have enough money to go to the bar so they stay home and then they have to make it to Monday. And I'm like, that's pretty smart. Well, what you're talking about basically just encourages

bad behavior. No question. I mean, it's just another. But they've had to do it. If you think about it, they've realized that their employees don't have enough money to probably even get through the week. So now they give them that opportunity. So now sometimes by the time their paycheck comes, they've already spent it. And it's just a vicious cycle. You know, the one thing, and I'll add this in there real quick that I've tried to share many, many times, I'm trying to think of who shared this with me a long time ago, but you should always pay yourself first.

So if you got paid, I don't care what the number is. If it's $1,000 a week, and if your goal was the 10%, pay yourself first. If you'll get into the habit of always doing that, you'll never be broke. That's true. It's just a systematic way. And again, we're all creatures of habit. got to set up, and this is what I wish we'd go back into the high schools and start doing, way back when Eric Buchholz was a teacher before he became a principal, he used to have me come in

and we'd talk, and it started out that we'd come in and talk about business. And I think the first time that he invited me out, gosh, I can't even tell the year, it's been a long time ago, but there was three or fours that came in, and so we got like a 15-minute slot to talk about business. I don't even know what the name of the class was, but they also tried to implement some life skills. Now, I don't think it's our high school's job to teach the life skills to our kids, but I will tell you that's an opportune time because you've got them, you know, for eight hours a day for nine months out of the year. So it's right there. So it could be implemented. And I know they do this financial something. Keith Lazar from the state bank used to go and teach it at the

financial literacy, I think. Thank you. Financial literacy. So you had to pass. That was one of the requirements to get your diploma to pass. It must not do enough. I'm not knocking it. I'm just saying it doesn't do enough. Otherwise, people wouldn't be in the positions they're in and we wouldn't listen to all the stories that we're starting to talk about now. I kind of got off track, but there was something important I was trying to share with that part of it. See, I was talking too much. It'll come. It's never a problem. It'll come back. I know, but it was, oh, with the kids, so with Eric Buchholz and I was going in talking. And so there was three or fours that would come and talk about business.

I would always try to throw some other stuff in there about life skills and so forth, in attitude and being positive and different things. Well, then the next time I went there was just three of us. Then it was to where finally I was taking up the whole entire hour. And I went and did this at a couple different schools. I did it here and I did it to Highland a little bit. Always enjoyed it. Well, then Eric became principal.

They stopped the class. And I just started going back. Eric's a teacher again. So I started going back and doing it. It's with the seventh graders, which is a little bit young. So you kind of, you know,

dial it back a little bit. But I still talk about some of the same stuff. And so we try to talk about, you know, pay yourself first, how to plan, how to budget. This is the one thing that I like with Dave, sometimes with Dave Ramsey. He keeps it simple. Yep. It doesn't work for everyone, but it would work for the majority of the people.

You know, you've got to go back and figure out the dollars that are coming in and the dollars that are going out. Pay yourself first. Live below your means. Use a bucket system if you got to. But we've lost that. If you spend less than what you make, you'll never be perfect. If you go back into the high schools and start to be more detailed with that, because I really think it could make a difference.

Well, they say, well, no, no, that's the parents' job. Somebody probably didn't teach the parents. Right, right. And you look for generation and generation. So the parents are just doing the best they can trying to teach them. Yeah. Where was their help before? Yeah, because so many of those cases, they come from a household that's struggling

because of those very lessons that weren't learned by the parents. Yeah. And we live in a society 100% where it is 24-7 consumerism. Oh, gosh. This will make you happy. From the littlest thing to the biggest thing, you need to buy this. It's, it's, that's the, I'd say that's the darker side of capitalism because I'm a true capitalist and everybody ought to have, you know, the opportunity to try to, you know, sell their product. but we are, it is beat into us, cradle of the grave to buy, by, buy. And if you play capitalism right, you can, you can succeed big time.

But if you get sucked into the dark side of it, you can be stuck. Yeah. And not move forward to life. Well, we're somewhere along the way, too much, we, as a society, we put too much value on things. Things and not experiences. Yeah. Well, everybody gets. caught up in the status game of what they look like to other people.

Sure. And social media hasn't helped with that at all either. It's added to it. It just adds more to it and it's made even worse. So everybody wants a nice car, not so that they can have the car to make themselves feel good, but to what it's going to look like for everybody else in the neighborhood. I want the house because I don't, the house isn't going to make me happy. The feeling of everybody looking at my house is going to make me happy.

That's why I want the house. But Sawyer, when do you want it? You want it now. Oh, right. It's that long-term, short-term. gratification that's backwards. Yeah, 100%. That's why, and again, we need to go back to more of a cash society. It'll never happen. But if you got the money in your pocket that you can buy it, then you can buy it. Yep. 100%. We're not there. And we're not going back there. No, we're not,

not with all this, not with after pay and credit cards and all that. Another thing I want to touch on debt, and you mentioned Dave Ramsey, and I like Dave Ramsey a little bit too, but he says that's all bad. That's all bad. And the reason he says that is because if you, you know Dave Ramsey, you've heard his story. Yep. You know, he's got started a real estate young. Over leverage. Over leveraged himself.

Bot, bought, bought, bought. Took the equity out, financed some properties that way. Then the bank he was going through shut down. Yep. Got bought, got bold, bought, sold. And the new bank called in his loans. They're like, got this young kid. He's got all this debt.

We're calling him up. And we're going to take all his loans away and he lost it all. So I think that's, when they hear people who listen, Dave Ramsey, they hear that. They're like, that's why I don't want. want to go into debt. But this kind of all ties back into what we've talked about previously. Do you feel like the best way to set yourself up for success so that doesn't happen when you're borrowing money from a bank and using it to buy cash flowing real estate is to just make sure it's

the right bank? Because do you feel like Dave probably bought or got loans from a bank that wasn't a local bank that he didn't probably have a great relationship with? Like, how do you, you know, his story appears that it gets blamed on the bank. They called up his note. Well, the problem is, is that he couldn't go to another bank to be able to get himself out of it. True. So was the bank part of it? Yes, but really as a whole, it's what he had created. He was over leveraged to the point that he couldn't get out of it. You know, if something's worth $100 and you'll 120, good luck finding anyone that's going to work with you. And in today's world, it's probably pretty difficult, especially a person starting out or even a younger person to get themselves into that type of a situation.

Because what lender, there's practices out there, especially at a local bank, you know, what lender is going to let them do it? There is a limit. And it's funny, I've said this once to the local bank president. I said to her one time, how much money can I borrow? I've never gotten an answer. But you know what, there is an answer. Yeah.

Everyone has a limit. And I think, I think that's a, I hear that I've heard this a lot. So in my, in my, when I was selling hog buildings, I ran into a lot of farmers that had figured out kind of the same game with ag real estate. Um, and hog buildings, you know, get some equity, then go build another one and then go build another one and just keep rolling it. And use that income to buy land. and one of the biggest complaints that I heard from guys that were, you know, pretty sizable farmers is they would butt up against these collateral requirements that, whether it be the farm credit system or some bank, where, you know, they had all this land and land prices just kept going up.

you know, we were up over 10,000, and then we were getting up to 12,000, and, you know, today there's some land. It's going for $20,000. But when they were looking at borrowing money, they were using very conservative values on that farmland, and these guys would be all pissed off. And I told them, that's really, that's what you got to have, is you got to have somebody that remembers, because the ag lending business went through the same thing. You talked about the housing crisis in 2008. That same thing happened back in the 90s to ag land where it went up, up, up, up through the 70s

and into the 80s and then it crashed. And there's still guys that are in that business that are bankers, and they remember that. And when you go in and you sit down next to them and you, you know, I got this and it's worth this, and they don't want to loan you 100% of that, well, there's a reason for that. And sometimes you may not like the answer, but sometimes it's good to have that voice so that you don't end up where you owe $120 on something that now is $100 or is $90 or whatever.

You know, you talked about that earlier. Surround yourself with good people. You know, maybe it's the CPAs. It's the bankers. It's the attorneys. It's those guys or an advisor or a mentor, someone that's done it. You know, I told the story about getting in the real estate business, the two youngest in the office of 55. Well, Darrell High from High Development, you can do a little Google search and look.

And Darrell has, he's left those blinders on, stayed focused, knew what he wanted to do and has grown and grown and grown. And today, you know, he's got somewhere in the vicinity of 2,000 rental units. Wow. Yeah. Crazy. So how, like, so I've got to, you know, firsthand witness the smaller person because I've helped him. You know, I've got clients that I've worked with that own four, five or six properties. You know, and then there's people that I'm around on a daily basis that I can call and say,

hey, what do you think of this? You know, they've done it. Well, Daryl is what a great source. I mean, he's done it. He's doing, he's still building stuff up in Tiffin, Cedar Rapids, Cedar Falls, Davenport. Don't you feel that, I feel like real estate is no different than any business? You get to a point, though, where your whole mindset. and how you view the value of your time and what you spend your time doing to get to that next level,

that all has to change. Like when you own a few rentals, you know, you try to do everything yourself. Yep, yep. And one of the things that I hear, I see people that you get to a point where you either have to make the jump to offload some of that or you become a miserable, you become a miserable, You become miserable. You either property manage. What happens? You don't service it correctly. And bad things happen.

You either go down the property management side or you do it all in-house rehire a bunch of employees. That's kind of the- See, that's what Daryl did. You know, it's got high properties management. So he started the company that does all those kind of things. So he built a company as he grew, it grew. And I don't know how many employees there are now.

There's several. So at the end of the day, like every big business, it doesn't matter, he's really, he's really in the people business. No question. Because you cannot grow. If you cannot, if you cannot find, retain and treat well enough or I don't know what the word for it is, yeah, well, retain, which all of that goes to treat people the way you want to be treated. But no matter what you start with, at the end of the day, if you're going to grow,

you've got to be able to be good with people. You just have to. What Daryl did is he made his wife the president. and then he's got one of his kids he's got i think five kids he's got one of his kids is now in the business uh with him and what's interesting and again to try to teach him and this was a lesson for all of us was that you know he had his son go to college for a little bit wasn't for him okay he always wanted to be in the business with his dad where did he start he's out shoveling the snow fixing the garage door when it didn't work yeah all those things that's where he started and he'll learn

that business from the bottom up that's what clay and sawyer are doing with me yep making you the shovel? Yeah, they're starting me at the bottom, but I don't know. I don't seem to get any hope of progressing any. They just keep me there. Well, I hope they pay you well. We'll just get you that mower with a swivel coozy and you can just know everything. That's where you're going to stay. That's where you want to stay anyway. Pretty much. I don't like responsibility. What about partners and doing partnerships with people? Do you have any advice on how to pick the right partners and how to go about keeping a good partnership?

That's interesting because we've talked about that in some of our other sessions. I remember with you and Clay. I've learned over time that partnerships are difficult because what you're going to find is that it appears over time, you both come and basically get to 50-50 and it all feels equal. But over time, one person starts doing a little bit more, a little bit more, and then there's some resentment might get started. I've been fortunate. I'm in a couple of partnerships now.

So I'm fortunate. and I needed that partner to either get started or to continue the way it was. Now that I've got different knowledge in a different position and a different age and stuff, I'm not as apt to get into a partnership because the partnerships, again, I'll just say it again, they've got to, everybody has to bring something to the table and it has to be equal. Otherwise, at some point it doesn't feel as good. and it's needs change over time

or priorities change over time and that's that's difficult and we all get busy and maybe that person then has to devote more time to something else they're doing so it just seems like sometimes they become unbalanced and so you've got to be very careful with a partnership

yeah so communicate especially like you guys you know it's a family partnership yeah you know we've talked about that before you know that can be the most rewarding in my opinion because you can help each other and become successful together. But you can also develop some distaste for each other in some fashion. So you've got to be real careful when it's family. So just what's your tips to try to combat that? Just communications, meetings. Communication's huge in anything, obviously. But you know, talk about the stuff that may come up,

which without having experience you wouldn't know what to talk about, but talk about it before you get into it. What is your role? What is my role? What happens when we grow? What happens when we want to take on another property? Or let's say you want to go down one path, and I don't. I don't care if it's family or not family. Everything should be down on paper in some fashion. Do I still believe in handshakes every day?

In the world of real estate, which is very litigious, I'm telling you, I would shake hands with you today and buy something from you or sell something to you and feel good about doing it. Other words, they don't ever do that. they're probably the right ones. It should be on paper. Yeah. But even though you guys, again, brothers, you've got an LLC,

you're buying properties, you're doing great, you should have something in writing. Yeah. Somewhere. I mean, you should have some type of LLC agreement. Right. Because what happens if, you know, tomorrow, barn talk takes off and, you know,

you've got a million viewers and you decide you want to do this from Kentucky. You're no longer right here in this local Washington Little Barn right here. You don't have time to do the real estate stuff you're doing with your brother. Right. But yet he's going to do. stay here and keep going. Well, now all of a sudden your interests are different or your time is different. Right. What's right and what's not right? What do you do? Does he keep doing all the management and collecting the rents and dealing with the phone calls when someone calls? And, you know,

my youngest child just left a little animal stuffed in the toilet and it overflows through the night. Ever have that happen? That was a true story, by the way. I had that happen. You know, so what are you going to do? Well, if you've got it written down, now you know. Yeah, right. Yeah, that's good. No, that's good meetings. Yes. And consistent meetings. I think that's important.

I mean, it doesn't matter whether you say, all right, we're going to have a meeting. It doesn't have to be a deal where we're going to have a meeting every week just for the sake of having a meeting. But you need to have it to where consistently you get together, whether that be once a week, once a month, once every three months, whatever. And you've got to keep those lines of communication open. Yeah. We haven't really talked much about the development side, but you've been working. on a development project here in our local town. But you told the story to us that you've been working on trying to get the land that you are now developing on for years. Oh, yes. And so I just want to hear

your thoughts and your advice on negotiation. Because you wanted that for a long time, and you ended up getting it. How do you get what you want? What are the negotiation tactics? How do you come on, how to come on strong, but not strong enough to, or not too strong, right. Patience. Patience. The piece of ground that we're talking about is the new subdivision we're doing out south of town by the golf course. When it first started, the same gentleman has owned that piece of ground for several

years. And I had approached him, I know the first time probably eight years ago, maybe even a little bit longer, and said, hey, I'd like to buy just a little piece. Because at that point, looking into the future, as we started to slow down, we've learned over time, even though we've only traveled a little bit, my wife and I, every time we came back, we always like, you know, we like smaller town. We both have the same feeling as we travel. We don't like the bigger cities. It's fun to go visit from time to time. We wouldn't like to stay there that long.

Don't like traffic. Don't like crowded beaches, all that kind of thing. and so you just start to develop even a stronger place in your heart for a smaller town. Where did we want to end up? You know, we don't need the big house that we're in now. We'd like to have something a little smaller. Where can we build it? I'd like to be out by the golf course.

So I approached the gentleman that owned it several times, actually even made offers to him physically on paper. Didn't work, didn't work. He in his mind had a specific price. Wasn't willing to pay that price. So as time goes by, as we'd get a little bit closer, a little bit closer, a little bit closer, a little bit closer until finally now, and here's not the great thing about being a good negotiating thing, he got what he wanted. I then was able to get what I wanted. It wasn't that I was

able to go out and convince him to match the number I wanted to pay. He got what he wanted. But time had changed. Yeah. It finally got to the point after eight or ten years that it would work. It would work. But back eight to 10 years ago, what he wanted couldn't work. Yeah. And so that took a lot of time. And I'll tell you from the development business, it takes a lot of time. And people don't have a clue. They see what you might buy a piece of ground per acre for. And then once it's all said and done, what you go sell a lot for, and they're like, jeepers, you just, you know, you just killed it. Yeah. You just made all kinds of money. They're absolutely wrong. It doesn't work that way. It doesn't work, especially around here. It doesn't work. You know, in 19,

1998, Mark Goodwin started, Waters Edge where I live now. That development did really well. The timing in the marketplace was right. We sold the lots quickly and the homes were built and they were nice economic homes that fit a lot of people's price ranges. We then, in 2007, this shows you how smart we are. We started, when I say we, Mark and his son Scott and I started West Lake View right beside it. We did a little bit different. Waters Edge had 34 buildable lots. Westlake View had 21. We made them bigger so that you could put up an outbuilding.

Because that was kind of what was going on at the time. People wanted outbuildings. Why do we want outbuildings? Because we were buying too much stuff. So that concept was good. Because there was nowhere else that you could build a home and also build some type of an outbuilding. So that was good.

I will tell you, we sold all the lots of Water's Edge the first three years. Westlake View started in 2007. we sold the last lot 10 years later. There's only one entity in that entire development from Westlake View that made money. Would you like to guess who that was? That was the bank. Yes.

We made enough money to service our debt. Yep. Yeah. We didn't make a single penny. Yep. Because it took too long. It took too long. Your capital costs.

And that's the one thing when people start talking about developments, you've got to figure out what you're about. absorption rate. How quickly will the market absorb those lots and be able to sell them? We didn't think about that at the time. What happened in 2008? We all know what financial disaster that we entered upon, real estate bubble, the housing bubble, whatever you want to call it and so forth, too. Slowed everything down. What a horrible time to do a development. But we did it, but you know, we got through it. You know, and here we are again now, just getting going with the new subdivision south of town. This is different because this one's in town. So there's different. This one's in town. So there's different.

tools that can be used. But I'll tell you it's a process. You know, we've owned the ground for probably 18 months, and we're just now getting the infrastructure in. Now, the city had some changes that we had to work through and so forth. So it took a little bit, a little longer. But it takes time. But now you're talking even larger dollars, you know, city streets, city water, city sewer.

A lot more tied up. All that infrastructure. It's a lot. The ground costs more. Yes. A lot prices have. gone up, but we're not able to sell a lot, you know, for what they sell them up in Cologne or Tiffin. You know, Tiffin, they're pushing $100,000 for a simple building lot. Yeah. Colon is 75 plus.

We're not there. You know, ours are 45 because that's what the market will bear. So, so you're kind of heading into a time. Do you feel like the market fit, you feel like this is going to fit this one, just like it did for Water's Edge, or do you feel like it's more like? Unfortunately, economics have changed now. They weren't that way six months ago. Now, this subdivision would have started a year and a half ago, you know,

at that point to when the market was really rolling and there was so much demand. There's still some demand in the marketplace, not like it was four months ago. Yeah. And obviously, we all know what's going on when it comes to supply chain for materials. You know, materials have gone up and up and up. They haven't come back,

but I will tell you, lumber has. Yes. Lumber's come way back. Yep. So lumber is now to a point to where we can, we can manage it. But nothing else is. I mean, plumbing's still high.

The kitchen cabinets are. Garage doors. We should be out, instead of talking right now, we should be out making garage doors. Oh, I know. Yeah, that's crazy. You're 20, 25 weeks out on garage doors. Yeah. Not sure why, but, you know, so a lot of those things, there are some issues with supply chains.

Those numbers have not come back. I was predicting, there's the problem when you start to think you know and make predictions. I really thought that by now we would have pulled back. We haven't. Then I was saying, you know what, really by the building season of 2020, 23, they'll pull back. What happened in the world? Hurricane.

You know, we're talking billions of dollars. Yep. So I think we probably just clogged it up even more. Yeah, and then the labor, I think the labor issue is here for the next decade because when you look at your, when you look at your building trades, the average age of those guys, there is just more and more every day that are going to start leaving that and there aren't near enough young people getting into it. So that just going to get to be a bigger problem. And again, I'm not going to pick on the schools or parents and so forth.

But this is where, and I just had this conversation, we were at a bank convention up in Des Moines at the IBA conference up there. And there was a round table. And this topic came up. We started talking about it. College is fantastic. We obviously know it's not for everybody. What's interesting in, I'm sure you can Google this and get the statistic of how many kids go to college,

do get their degree, but do not work. in the field of where they got the degree. The number's quite high. Well, how many kids go and don't even get the degree? I truly believe college for most, it's just another four or five years or more to be able to mature, to start to figure out what you want to do.

So I'm not knocking it, but I really think we could do more at the high school level, and instead of promoting college so much, how about we promote the trades? How about we start finding ways to bring people in? Because a lot of those kids that go to college, What do they do during the years of college? They work in the trades.

Yeah, exactly. Some of them end up loving it or really liking it. But what we don't do, and here's the last thing I'll stop, and I'll stop on this point right here that I kind of brought up with the bankers, not only should we be talking about going into the trades and showing the benefits of it, but how about if we talk about going into the trades and then take it a step further by talking about a business? Because a lot of those kids, after they go through their initial one year, two years,

and they get their licensing or the journeymen or whatever, The terminology is you could own your own business. Absolutely. So if you started when you were 18, and let's say you spent four years at age 22, you've now got four years of experience, and maybe you've got the means, the financial means, the building and so forth, you now start a business. Some of these plumbers and electricians do very, very, very well.

Their hourly wage is quite high. Yeah. 70, 80, 90 bucks an hour. Right. Specialize and they can make some money. You can hire a general contractor that can do everything. Maybe it's drywall, plumbing. They're limited with plumbing electrical because of the laws and stuff.

But they're capable of doing so many things. Their hourly wage might be 30, 40 bucks. Specialize and you can double or triple. But why don't we talk to these kids sometimes about the business side of it? Yeah. And really, just have the conversations of what's out there to help these kids maybe when they don't have any idea what they want to do, just the exposure to an idea may help them

decide the road they want to go down. I think that's 100%. Yeah. With all that being said there, you're doing this development. Are you worried about this development with all these things going on? Are you thinking it's going to do very well?

Are you kind of concerned because things have changed? What are your thoughts on that? You know, whenever you take on a project, obviously there's some concerns that come with it. six, eight months ago, I felt a lot better about it. But just like anything, you know, we're going to ride through this. And things will start to work themselves out. That's what happens in the world.

I don't care if it's in the small town. If it's in the state of Iowa, if it's in the United States, if you notice, history will always repeat itself. Some people may not believe in that, but I truly do. This is just another cycle. We've been through all the stuff. We've been through interest rates that are higher than this. We've been in recessions.

it will work itself out. So my timeline of when I thought things would be completed will probably change a little bit. But we have a strong need for housing in Washington. We definitely have a need when it comes to new construction because there's only so many existing properties. Well, the people that live in the existing properties, the ones that can will go out and build a home.

When they build the home, their home frees up. Maybe they've got, if you just use numbers, maybe they build a new home for 400. they sell their home that was 200. The person that has the home that's 100 buys the two and so forth and becomes, it's amazing what it opens up. The impact that a development can have,

you can't even start to follow it all. You know, we work with all the local people here, local plumbers, local electricians. Well, when they come and they do a job and they earn a dollar, where are they spending their dollars? Right here. Well, since we use the local ones

and they live here, you know, now they're paying their taxes, they're going to the grocery store, to the movie theater, they're going to the gas station. They're spending that money here. Within those people, that income is earned, and it just becomes an incredible cycle. But the only way that you can really grow is you've got to be building something. You know, we all, we could talk about taxes forever, property taxes and how unbalanced they are.

And I'll say, I'll even say this on the air, how high they are for our town. They're higher than they should be. But we have a lot of things that we're trying to take care of and pay for. You know, for the longest time, I think maybe the city years ago didn't look far enough ahead and go, we're going to need a new water system. We're going to need a new sewer. So we need some new roads, all those things. And you put it off for too long.

And then all of a sudden when you needed them, we had to have them. Now we're paying for that stuff. And I get it. I pay a lot in taxes. Okay. How do you reduce some of that on the person that's paying their property taxes? Development. Development.

You got to add. Start out on the east end of town, go to the west end of town. Look at all the new stuff that's happening. We need that. We do need it. I just, I have to say this because I'm always, don't you just sometimes, because you're involved in a lot of that development that goes on or have knowledge of it, isn't it frustrating the amount of armchair quarterbacking that goes on on social media?

And I'm sure our town is no different than any other. of all the people that like to tell everybody else what our town needs. Sure. We need this. We don't need this. And I always just want to say, well, they're selling franchises for that every day. Why don't you go buy one and find a property and you develop it and then we'll have that? Because it just drives me crazy because no matter what somebody does, like there's a business that's coming to town that there's

there is a property that's being developed. And I probably won't use, I probably won't use that business much just because it doesn't fit my lifestyle. I may, I may go there once a while, but it doesn't really fit my lifestyle. But I'm super happy that we have it because it's going to employ people and it's using a piece of property that hasn't been used. I'm just thankful that somebody has taken the risk to do it, but I'm, I'm always just, it drives me, I want to scream when I see all of the comments that people make because it's not this, it's not what I wanted, or I love that, I love that thing that was there that didn't make anybody a dime, but it's always been there. So I wish it was still there.

That kind of stuff just drives me nuts. And when you're in that, that's got to be, it's got to be a little frustrating sometimes. Let me just say yes. And we'll just leave it right there at that one. That's the best way. We all have thoughts and opinions. Yeah. And that's the good or the bad of the social media today is we now can put it out. Yeah.

What I've found a lot of times, those comments may not be the same comment if you and I are sitting here. Oh, definitely. And you're giving me your thoughts. Definitely. But behind the wall of social media, you might be a little bit more bold and a little bit more aggressive and make those kind of stuff. statements. But again, anybody can, they can have their opinions and so forth. Yeah. But I like the point that you made. You know what? Do something about it if you think it's, you know, it needs to be different. You know, you have the opportunity to go buy a franchise or to go buy a business or to

develop a piece of property or, you know, or it's the same thing with volunteering. Yes. If, you know, if you can sit behind the wall and complain about something, well, how about if you just do something? Yep. You know, go volunteer for. that board. Go be a part of that organization. Then maybe you can make a difference. Yeah. So yeah, we definitely need more of that because it's it's just if it was easy, everybody would do it. And the truth is, anything in life worth doing is not easy. And whether it be, you know, starting a new business or developing a property that can become a new business or housing development or a hog business or, you know, feeding the world. It's not, it's so easy for people,

those who can't like to like to point their fingers at those that do. So that's 100% true. One thing I want to talk about a little bit is just your passion for helping people. You've mentioned it many times that you've helped young people out. You helped Clay and I out a ton. and where does that passion come from? You know, what makes you want to go out and help people, you know, kind of educate? Where'd that come from? You know, sorry, I don't really know exactly how to pinpoint it. But as you start to get older and you have different experiences in life,

you start to find some things that make you feel good. And I think that's where once you find a few of those things, then that's what you kind of gyrate towards. And I'll tell you, I've always wanted to coach. told you the story that, you know, I went to college first because all I really wanted to do was coach. And so little by little, and I didn't, I started helping our, our wrestling program when my son was in first grade, I do believe. So it's been, shoot, I don't know, 18, 16, 17 years, quite a few years. And so then I got the opportunity. Once he was done with

high school, to be able to actually be a, they consider you a paid coach. That's almost kind of one of those oxymoron statements that, you know, like the wrestling season, for example, it's 90 days. Since I'm not a teacher that I have to actually turn in my hours, so I have to track them. And my contract says I have to, you know, I have to work so many hours. Well, that's almost a mute point because you're way beyond that. And I love every minute of it. I was just very fortunate that the coach at the time, Brentman Weldon, who still the head coach, you know, allowed me to come in and be a part of it. And it's fantastic.

when you have the ability to interact with somebody that's younger, even older, doesn't matter, and maybe make a difference. And I'll tell you, one of the neatest things ever is when you're out in public, and it might be years later, and you'll see one of the kids somewhere that you had worked with,

and when they say, hey, coach, I'm telling you, that's a great feeling for me. Yes, I was a coach, but I never really thought about it much until it happened. And the very first time I remember it was a little kid at the grocery store. you know, coming up the aisle and he comes running over,

gives me a hug and says, hey, coach, I'm Jeff. So that's just really cool. And I've, you know, I've sold some homes to some of the wrestlers that we, that I've coached with. They still call you coach.

I was at a wedding this weekend, Brett Wright got married, and I think there was four or five past wrestlers were there. You know, I sat, went to the table, we talked, we share stories. I just loved it. So anyway, I don't know the exact answer to your question. Maybe that kind of tells you a little bit.

Well, I think, well, just sitting back thinking about your story, I think that woman that said that got you started in real estate, her husband got you started in real estate, she saw something in you and kind of helped you out in a way and educated you. And maybe that had an impact on you. And you already had some previous ambition to be a coach. So maybe it's just always been in you. but I think people you share it.

I'll share my stories. I'm always very open. Had a lot of failures, so I'll share that kind of stuff too. Yep. But you really can, you can make a difference. And when you stop and think, and I remember I had to go take some classes to be able to get my coaching certificate and so forth. And the gentleman who taught the class had been a coach for 40 years. So he's obviously seen a lot, been involved with a lot of children or a lot of kids.

What was interesting is that you had to write a paper. on your coaching philosophy. I had no idea what that even meant or what my philosophy was, but it develops over time. And so you've got to take that longer view of something that I'm saying to you right now or something that I'm doing.

I hope it impacts you if it's a good thing, but it could set you on a certain path in the world. You know, it's almost like, you know, when you skip a rock across that water, you don't know exactly for sure which direction or how many times it's going to touch. It's the same thing with the kids. You know, I may say something that really impacts them.

And I hope that I do. I mean, I hope I say something that helps them or, and maybe it's something simple. You know, pay yourself first. Maybe they'll go, oh, you know what, coach said, I've got to pay myself. And maybe they'll do it. Yep.

Right. But I'll always take the time. And so I've had, you know, I've had kids come in that we sit down, we talk. A lot of times I've got, I actually brought one of my journals that I use with one of the kids. I always make them bring a journal. you know, I'm arrogant enough to think that I'm going to say something spectacular,

that I want them to write it down. But I want them to get into the habit of writing that stuff down because maybe they'll go back and look at it again. Absolutely. And I'll have kids today after they've gone out in the world, gone to college, got a job, whatever. They'll call me and say, hey, can I stop and see you? You bet. I have three or four kids that call me and then I'll stop and see.

Yep. So it's pretty cool. Do you journal? You bet. Yeah, absolutely. That's one of the best habits that I ever picked up. I wish I would. I need to do more of it.

But the answer is, yeah. Yes. And I've, you know, one of my two boys, I've got them doing some stuff in a journal, the people that I see you doing. But I've got, it's fun to go back. You know, I told you about, you know, writing a book. Sometime I'll write a book. I've got four or five journals that are just ideas that I've thrown in for a book.

Business ideas. I got four or five business ideas that are in a book, just notes. And maybe they'll sit there on the shelf for two or three years or whatever. But it's kind of cool to pick up and go, yep. Oh, did I think of that? What's really great is if you do it long enough, when you go back, some of the things that, you know, you, when you writes, I feel like when you

journal something and then that ends up, you end up bringing that to fruition, that is, that's powerful. I mean, that's, that's why I do it, basically. It helps. You know, there's, there is no action before thought. Thought always has to come first. And so a lot of times, like with the, the journals, when I'm putting stuff in there, you may not go back. You know, there's, there's, there's no back and see it for a couple of years but when you do you go huh yep it's already that idea yeah that's something that i noticed about you the first time we've had had a conversation was talk too much no i'm used to that with this one here but um you are a visual guy you are able to really take your thoughts and put it on paper in visuals and ways to teach people which is very unique and that was

something that i'm like i wish i i needed to learn how to do that because you yeah you you you you do scribble, but it makes sense. That's the hard thing. Like, I think I could try that, but I don't know if it would turn out the way that you can make it look on paper. Yeah, it's pretty cool. Somebody you can't read or decipher,

but I scribble at all. And you know, a lot of times, when I'll give a journal, they'll say, what am I supposed to write? I love it when they ask that question. I'll say, well, what do you think you should write?

I don't know. Then write that down. I don't know. How many times are you going to pull out a journal and write? I don't know, not very many times. So I always, you know what, start with your day. You know, the best way to start a journal, in my opinion, is just recap your day.

What was good, what was bad, what was right, what was wrong, what can I do better? Just that alone will get you to start to think. And then write down ideas, that kind of stuff. Think about some of the really incredible people in the world that probably have done that. Just think what could be in their journals. Yep. 100%. Bill Gates, what did he write in his journal?

Right. Yeah. Yeah. I think we're getting close to the end here, but I got a pretty good wrap-up question that I wanted to ask you. Well, I guess two more questions. So if you had to start over today at 22 years old or health, 18, whatever, in America, and you want to be successful, what would you do to become successful?

What are your first steps? What are your, what's the venture you're going to go after to try to make a living to be successful? It's the Family and Friends event at Shoppers Drug Mart. Get 20% off almost all regular-priced merchandise. Two days only. Tuesday, April 28th and Wednesday, April 29th. Open your PC Optimum app to get your coupon. I'll give you the bold answer.

And then I'll give you the other answer that I think is a pretty good path. I've never been a big fan of jobs. I can say that now after for 30 years, I've never had a job, even though you really do have a job. I've treated the real estate business like a job. I get up every day, I leave the house. I don't come in at 10 every day. I still go to work pretty early, you know, and those kind of things. You got to own a business.

You got to own something, whatever it may be. Now, what business would I start? That's almost an unfair question because now you've got some knowledge, so what would it be? Obviously, I would go back to the real estate side of things. Now, I wouldn't go in and just have a real estate career. I would find a way to be able to do something more. If I wasn't entrepreneurial, and somebody asked me what industry or what avenue,

would I ever advise somebody to go down, there is no question in the last 10, 15 years, I'd go into banking. If I wanted a job, I'd go into banking. You know, and my wife is the most perfect example of why I say that. you know, she started out as a teller. We're both uneducated because we never finished college

so we don't have a lot of education. So we'd have been, what would she have been? 21, right around that range right here. Starts as a teller at a local bank. Just went to work. We talked about the work harder. Just went to work. Got up early, stayed late.

Went to work. Did what you're supposed to do and then some. That's what a lot of people are missing in today's working world. You know what they'll do just. what is expected. That's it. And maybe not even well. She obviously did well with that. Then started to advance to a different position, to a different position, to a different position,

then was able to become an officer and advanced to a different position. And got to the point to where, you know, within 10 years or so, you become an officer. When you're an officer in a in a bank, you start getting more benefits. That, I know this now as we look back, that made a huge difference in our life because those benefits, health insurance and so forth, When you're not paying it out of pocket, that makes a difference in how you can do other things. Maybe go buy some real estate, whatever it might be. So that really has allowed us to do things differently than just an average job. And then just keep working.

You know, go to work. Keep doing the things. You know, then she became a vice president of a bank. A woman with no education, we're going to get some flack for this. A woman with no education becomes a vice president. Now that bank has a president that is a woman. And again, I'm not here to start going back and forth about men, women, and inequality, all that kind of stuff. But that right there, you could do it again.

It could be repeated. Now, go get a degree and come into the banking world. You'll start out at a lot higher income level. But I tell you, what a great environment to work in. You're not out in the cold. You're not physically doing some things like a manual job would be. You've got an opportunity for advancement if you put your head down and just go to work. and you can have a very, very nice life in a smaller town.

The banking world. Now, I'm fortunate enough, I know a lot of the bank presidents. A lot of my friends are bank presidents. I know what they do. Yeah. So if I was going to have a job, there's the industry I would go into. Yeah. No question.

Gotcha. Yeah, no, that's good. But I don't like jobs. Yeah. Okay. So on the flip side of that, you're entrepreneurial. You are entrepreneurial. from the second we sat down and talked,

we kind of think the same. All of us kind of think the same. And you are, you're my dad's age, you're what, 52 in your 50s? 55. 55. So I am older.

So I get to be the mature one. Yeah. Right. You are, you're keeping us here. What continues to drive you? Because you got a motor. You've always had a motor from the,

that's another thing I met from the second. Or the time I sat down with you and met you the first time. You got a motor. you're always on the go, you're trying to advance and try to keep moving forward. So what keeps you going and like what else do you want to accomplish? What are you striving for? Two things. You know, the motor starts because of a why or a purpose.

In the very beginning, I can tell you what the purpose was. You know, you're broke. You're just plain damn broke and you've got to go. I mean, it's that simple. I try to pass it on to both my kids at the present time. You know, you're broke. They lived a different life growing up. You know, my parents had six kids on one income.

You know, they were basically broke. Well, coming out of year and a half hour college or whatever it was, broke, just plain broke. So what do you do? You got to go to work. Got to hustle. Yep. So then you, you know what? Then you started a family or you got married and started a family.

You're broke again. So what do you got to do? You got to go to work. And you work. Then you start to understand that there's better ways of doing it. So to answer the end part. part of it. What I want, I told Kim this just the other day, wasn't that long ago we had a conversation about this stuff. It's interesting, the older you get, the better conversations

you start to have. And maybe it's because you're in a different position in life. I told her, I said, you know what, we'll do more from 55 to 75 than we did from 25 to 55. We will do more. We have a little more knowledge, a little bit more abilities, those kind of things. And we're getting to be on the same page. So we'll do more. So no retirement for you. No. No. No. Oh, no. You know what? Do you ever really retire? He hasn't never gone to work. Yeah. If you never went to work, you don't have to retire. But do you ever really retire? I don't. See, I don't think so. I think you just start doing more. That's what excites me, I guess. I couldn't see. You love the game. But I couldn't see sitting around and, you know, doing what others do. Hey, that's what they're going to do. That's fantastic. But that doesn't excite me to. Yeah. No. You won't see me going to the coffee shop and, you know, sitting around for three hours, telling stories, drink. coffee. Unless they don't like coffee. So what's your draw?

What's your why now then? Since you're not, you're not broke anymore. Close. Close, but you're not where you were. So sure. What's your why now? Just to do more.

Just to do more. Yep. You love the game. Do more. Yep. Yep. Just more. Not more stuff.

Except I, they're on to us. What is that? It's, it's, it's an ambulance somewhere and Duke either really loves. him or he really hates him because as soon as he hears him he starts howling you know when i showed up yesterday somebody guarded me the whole time i was here i never got out of my truck i didn't

know for sure of doug like me or not so yeah um but it's you know i don't have a this big strong desire to go and acquire more and more and more you know i drive a 2016 forward f150 i love it you know pretty average all that stuff's pretty average so i'm not driven by any of the material stuff but i do want more real estate and i'll tell you that's one of the biggest things I look back over the last 30 years, should have bought more. I kept thinking it was too high. Well, what do you think that same conversation is going to be 20 years from now?

No, if it works, buy it. Make it work. Make your money work for you. So, there you go. All right. Do anything else to add, then? I don't think so. I think this was great.

Yeah, it was a good episode. We really appreciate coming on, Jeff. I think you dropped a lot of value, a lot of knowledge for people. And I hope a lot of you that are thinking about are on the fence to want to get into real estate, take the jump and get into real estate. It'll be one of the best decisions you ever make if you stick with it and you learn and you find the right people. Shoot us, suit us some DMs, email us, whatever. And we're going to wrap it up. If you guys got any value, share the show, pay the fee. Send us, submit your questions at barn talk show at

gmail.com. And we'll see you back here next week for another episode.