Barn Talk - Barn Talk Q&A: CA Prop 12 Law, Future Of Pig Farming & New Hog Barn's Vs. Old What's More Valuable?

Episode Date: August 20, 2021

Welcome To Barn Talk! In today’s episode, we discuss the California Prop 12 Law, government Vs. small farmers, the future of pig farming, new hog barn’s Vs. old, what's more valuable & much, much more. SUBSCRIBE TO THE PODCAST ➱https://bit.ly/3a7r3nR SUBSCRIBE TO THIS’LL DO FARM ➱ https://bit.ly/2X8g45c ADD US ON:  INSTAGRAM ➱ https://bit.ly/3gaobdN TIKTOK ➱ https://bit.ly/3eJfftr ------------------------------- ***PLEASE NOTE*** Barn Talk is a significant break from the typical content viewers have come to expect from This’ll Do Farm. Please be advised that we will be exploring a wide variety of topics (some adult-themed) and our younger viewers (and their parents) should be advised that some topics will be for mature audiences only. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Don't wait. Visit your local GMC dealer today and make it yours. All of the food we eat and much of the clothing we wear comes from plants and animals that are raised on farms. Farms are different in type, in size, and even in name. Welcome to Barn Talk. What happens at the barn? Stays at the barn until now. We've been letting it out for a while and we're going to continue to do it.

If you get any value from the show, anything from the show, entertainment, you learn something, you know, any sort of value at all. Share it out. That's all that we ask. That's the ticket of admission for watching or listening to the show. We don't run ads on the show. show. So it's all organic and just share it to your friends, share it to your family, share it to your coworkers. We're trying to do some good in this world. So that's all we ask for you guys if you get anything. Today is going to be a special episode, like every episode. Every episode

is special. Every episode is special. This one's also a solo one. In the last podcast, I kind of talked a little bit about three different concepts of shows. I'll go over it one more time just to let people know and then we'll just that'll be it. First kind of concept of show is just dad and I talking about a subject that we want to talk about together, no guess. Second concept is Q&A and today's going to be a Q&A episode. We ask questions on Instagram. So if you want to follow us on Instagram, you can get on asking questions. That's where we're getting our questions at. Also you can drop them in the comments. Wherever we can get questions, we're going to answer questions on a Q&A episode, just dad and I. We're answering six questions total, three each. We'll jump in on each other's questions if we want to add

anything. And then the third kind of concept is a guest, but we live in southeast Iowa, so... Sometimes it's difficult to get guests on a regular basis, and sometimes it takes a lot of scheduling. And so this is a way that we can help plan our workflow a little bit to make sure that we've got time to get the people that we want. That's right. That's what you're going to say? That's well put, dad. I was, I was shooting too many words out of my mouth too fast and I just kind of lose it a little bit sometimes. Yeah, this is my dad. This is our co-host. I think we both call each other co-host. We're the host of this podcast. The son and son and dad duo. There you go. Farm together and we do a podcast together. Sometimes we want to beat the shit out of each other, but sometimes not. This helps

us. Most of the time not. Most of the time not. Most of the time not. But we get along enough to do a damn podcast together and work together. Although the podcast could, that could end up, that might be the straw that breaks the camel's back. Yep. I just don't know how long I can put up with your crap. I know. We're getting closer to harvest about, you know, a few weeks here, maybe a month, and yeah, it'll be go time.

I'd say we're a month away. Probably a little bit longer. It all depends on how this corn dries down, but it looks like we're going to have a really good crop. USDA came out, I don't know, a day or two ago, and they lowered the, they lowered the yield estimate. But if you look at the map of that, most all of the down came from like North Dakota, South Dakota.

There's another state. I'm not sure which one it was that was down. But everything else is either unchanged or up a lot. Like Illinois is up a lot. But when it all comes out, it ends up being down a little bit. And so we'll just have to see. I think that we're kind of in a range where new crop pulled around. If it gets that $6 mark, I think.

think a lot of people are going to sell because there's a lot of resistance I think above. I think it'll take something, it'll take something to happen either on the demand side or the crop side to send it above that. But at the same time, yields will have to be a lot better for it to push as much lower than that. So if you've got a crop, if you're going to have a crop, that's a good number, a lot better than we've had for the last few years. Why don't you give them the numbers? I will give you the numbers. These are the cat grain numbers as of the close yesterday. So these are Thursday's closed because we're in Friday now. We're in Friday mode. And this is a, this is a fresh off the assembly line. We just got done

Chorn and decided it was cool. So we're going to shoot it. So I don't have my makeup on or anything. Not that I ever do. But corn closed yesterday, 670 at ADM and Cedar Rapids and 647 locally. That is the Michael Burger Farms bid. So their bin must be a little low because they had the king bid among all the feed guys around. Soybeans 1391, and that's at Burlington and 1371 locally. Hogs are 110. That's like a broken record. They don't.

They've been staying there consistent. Yeah. And the weights are down. I think the average weight about 277 or 278, and it's been that way for quite a bit. and so the numbers, the slaughter numbers keep going down. There's fewer hogs coming to market and the weights stay lighter. So that tells me that there aren't a lot of hogs out in the country. So I don't know where that ends.

If demand stays good, I think hog prices stay good or get better. Cattle 123, kind of the same story. Bitcoin. Bitcoin. Right around 46,000. I checked it before we started. It was like 46. I don't know where it goes from here. I think it, the legislation, there was a lot of talk this

week with the infrastructure bill, which you want to talk about some goofy stuff in that. That's a government at its finest. I'm sure we'll find out a lot of wonderful things that were included in the infrastructure bill that people voted for that didn't even know what they were voting for. But anyway, there was a lot of worry about regulation of Bitcoin. but it seems to have shrug that off and it keeps moving higher. And I think the fears of inflation and just the supply, the number of people that are holding it and not selling it, the supply of Bitcoin on the exchanges keeps going down,

which means as people buy it, there's less... People selling it and they're just holding it. Less inventory that is there to move. So the price basically has to go up. Tesla is 717 as we have the as we talk. It was up, I think it's 722 yesterday, but it's down a little bit today, but that's all right. People probably do wonder why we have Tesla on our market update, but dad's favorite stock is Tesla.

It's my favorite stock, too. We're very high on Tesla if you haven't figured that out yet, but maybe we should throw in another stock some other day, too, maybe like Square to some stuff up. Square is probably just about 270. Between 270 and 278, unless it's like up big or down big. So it's been hanging at it. It's close to its high. I know that.

And I don't really follow a whole lot else. Yeah. This is not financial advice, but, you know, big stocks that we're on for me personally, and I think you're on the same page as Square and Tesla are two ones that I really, really believe in in the future. There are some other ones, but, you know, I'm keeping that low key for my portfolio. I like disruption. I feel like there's a, if you.

you listen to the if you listen to the or watch the podcast last week that's what i wanted to say i felt a little bit bad when we got done with that because i kind of feel like that even at the end we we gave a little bit of thought about kind of what you need to do uh to be ready for the coming economy and we also said you know i could be flat wrong we both could be flat wrong but this is just our opinion but i felt like it was kind of like us throwing a wet blanket on everybody saying well you're pretty much screwed and i don't want you to think that i don't want you to think that I mean, I have a lot of optimism about the future and the opportunity that's there. But I think it's just, like we said in that, there's just a lot of uncertainty.

And it's definitely going to be different, a lot of change. And so today's going to be a more lighthearted podcast. Unless somebody asked me a really hard question. Stupid question or hard question. Well, that's true, too. Yeah. We are going to ask three questions each, six questions total. And I said this before.

We'll jump in on each other's questions if we have anything to. say but yeah i grabbed these off instagram asked them a couple days ago or yesterday and people put down the questions so here we go i'm going to ask you your questions and you're going to ask me my questions okay so number one torque what are your thoughts on california prop 12 pig breeding law that could potentially ban sale of pork by january 2022 um you get you i feel like you gave me all the hard questions and you got all the softball questions. That, although this isn't really that hard a question. I'm going to give you two answers.

So the, I'll give you official pig farmer answer and then I'll give you my personal view. So the official pig farmer answer is that national pork producers council is weighing their options as far as appealing the ruling. So they appealed, they filed a lawsuit, and I think it went to the Ninth Circuit Court. Well, I think it got turned down, if I'm right, and they appealed it to the Ninth Circuit Court. And anybody that knows anything about the Ninth Circuit Court, it's probably one of the most liberal courts in America. and they usually don't, they're definitely not conservative. And I think it's in San Francisco maybe is where that's at. I don't know for sure.

It doesn't matter. Anyway, they lost that appeal. They lost that. And so now then they're weighing their options. And, you know, it could go to the Supreme Court. The whole idea is that it is messing with interstate commerce, because, you know, the way the interstate commerce clause is written, one state should not be able to dictate commerce between other states. And, I mean, tell me if I'm wrong, and that's the 10,000 foot view of it.

And, you know, the court's ruling on that was, well, no, it doesn't really do that. It doesn't, you know, it doesn't really do that, even though, well, it does do that. because if you want to sell, my understanding of it is, if you want to sell any pork products in the state of California, the housing of your farrowing pigs, your sow, so the sows that are going to ferrow and have piglets, they need to be in a pen that is not restricted, but what is really, it's so, it's so murky as far as how it's written,

because the way I read it was that that sow needs to have, or that pen needs to be a minimum of 24 square foot, well, a 5 by 7 farrowing crate is 35 square foot, if my math is right. So then I thought, well, do they mean per sow and piglets? So 24 square foot per pig. So if a sow has 10 pigs, is that 240 square foot plus the sow?

That might be it because how else, how could they regulate it? Well, that's how it mostly is around the states. But the difference in that is the sow has to be, I think the way they said it is unrestricted. In other words, today, traditional farrowing houses clear back the ones we had back in the 70s. You got to quit pushing that. Oh, yeah. No, you got to quit pushing that paper because it's going to get my shot. You've got to look beautiful.

I only need it there. There you go. I need it there. So traditional farrowing crates, the sow is in a crate with sides so that her feeder and her water is in front of her and she can't turn around. And the reason for that, for anybody that hasn't, you know, grown up with sows and know how they act, they're a pretty heavy animal and they're not very coordinated. I would say. And after they pharaoh, after they have their young pigs, they get up and drink and eat, and then when they decide to lay down, they just kind of plop down. Which, and this happened,

this happened when we were pasture farrowing, because we pasture farrowed, and we ferroed in in pens when I was a kid. We had 10 by 20 hog sheds that had just pens where you bedded them. Well, there wasn't any place for the piglets to get away from the sow. And when the piglets, when the sow gets up and they all get up, they're thinking about nursing. So they're right under the sow trying to grab a teat. And when the sow decides to lay down, anybody that doesn't get out of the way, well, they just get crushed. So your 12 pig average becomes an eight pig average becomes a six pig average, whatever. And a six pig average on a farrowing house will get the farrowing manager fired pretty quick if you do that on a consistent basis.

So the whole reason that you put the sow in the crate is so that when she lays down, she has to like slide down one side or the other. It keeps her from plopping down. So it keeps the pigs protected. But the way this is written, the sow can't be restrained. So she has to have a pen that she can turn around and she can lay wherever she wants well long story short nobody really i don't think anybody knows exactly how big that pen needs to be we need to get somebody on here from uh national pork to tell us you know what the intent of it is because i don't think people know what the intent is okay as far as the finishing side because we've had a lot of comments on our YouTube channel, are your buildings, you know, what, you're going to have to change things? Are

they going to be okay for Proposition 12? Well, the short answer is yes, because the only thing that this addresses is the farrowing. And I don't think it even has anything about gestating sows. Basically, the only thing that it encompasses is the sows that are getting ready to have their picks. Well, so if it has nothing to do with finishing, how can they, So pretty much if a piglet is born in the restricted, you know, whatever the law, they don't. Right. Does that mean that pig can grow up and then they don't want that finished pig? Right.

So it does affect finishing a little bit. Well, no, it does. It affects finishing, but I'm just saying there's no... Our buildings are set up. Yeah, our buildings are fine as far as... So that's a great problem. Okay, let's say today, somebody, I saw somewhere that said 15% of... the pig production in the United States qualifies for this. And I question that number.

So I'm assuming that that would be people that are farrowing in huts or people that are farrowing in pens. And that could be 15% of the production, but boy, that sounds high to me. I thought it was more like maybe 5%. So I don't know. But you would have to try. track all of the different pigs. So let's just say in the system that we contract feed for, let's just say that they take one sow unit and they spend all the money to convert it. Okay, all those pigs that come from that unit

will have to be somehow, you'll have to prove that those pigs, trace those pigs all the way back to that farrowing house. And that they followed all the guidelines. And that they follow the guidelines. And then, so when it goes to a packing plant and that pig is disassembled into meat, each package of meat, so the bacon from those pigs has to be separate from the bacon from other pigs. And so that's not going to happen.

Well, the other thing I'm, okay, if you say most of these people that are following that guideline, 15% maybe, if that. Right. Most of them probably don't even have a, you know, contract with a packing plan. Right. So, I mean, yeah, that's the other thing. So a lot of those people are probably... So they say 15%, but do those people even have a USDA facility to even package to me and send it to California? Because there are state facilities and USDA facilities.

And you can only ship me out of state lines if it's a USDA facility. And that's a big problem right now because most packing plants are... Most USDA facilities are big packing plants. Right. So if these small guys, make those guidelines, chances of them actually have a USDA facility to follow that guideline and get it to California, probably pretty low. Yeah, I didn't even think about that. That's totally true. A lot of those people that are doing that farrowing, they're marketing their own meat,

they're marketing it locally. So out of whatever that percentage is nationwide, an even smaller percentage, in fact, I would say it would be maybe, I know it would be less and half. It could be a third or a quarter of that actually is meat that could be available to be shipped to California. Yeah, because... So it's a big problem. And it isn't just the farmer's problem. It is the Packers problem because somehow they have to keep this all straight. It'll all have to be kept separate, warehousing, transportation, labeling, all that. So I don't see... It's going to be very difficult for that to happen now then yeah so give them give them the perspective because dad's talk you've talked to a few people inside the industry we we know people inside the industry and you've made phone calls

and asked so because the comments we get people are like oh man like the sky's falling what are you guys going to do is 22 the is pork just going to be completely banned right what are the people inside the industry doing yeah that we know that is that 75 percent probably more nine years percent of what pork production is. This is my unofficial answer. So you had your pig farmer answer, the national porkboard is answer. Now it's real talk, real torque talk going here. The short answer is people don't give a rat's ass what California thinks. California is so far off the rails in about everything they're doing. In fact, I think San Francisco just passed their first, they're the first country or the first city in America where if you are in an outdoor area, you have to have a vaccine passport

to be in that area, or they will forcibly remove you. So they're on the strain of COVID-19 called communism out there. So most, I will just say most of the comments that I've heard that are unofficial, that aren't anybody that's involved in NPC, National Poor producers or, you know, whatever trade group or, or anybody officially for a large integrator. This is just, you know, coffee. The talk among farmers, the talk among people we associate. Most people resent, I personally resent it. I resent the fact that this arbitrary ballot initiative was put on the ballot, and it was written without any... any insight from people who actually produce the meat.

And it was intended. It was not intended. It was not intended for anything to do with animal welfare. They'll use that. It is totally intended with the idea that you cannot reach, you cannot satisfy the label of the law, because they would just as soon hurt the meat industry. if it worked that people couldn't buy a pork chop in San Francisco,

the people that put that on the ballot, that's exactly what they would want because they're anti-meat, anti-capitalism, pretty much anti-whatever you want to call it, they don't want you to be able to do this. So on the flip side, me as a pork producer, I wish that everybody can go buy, everybody can go eat whatever they want, wherever they want, and it's at a fair price.

But if you're going to go down this road and you think that you're going to regulate... Yeah, they think they're going to bully everyone to follow them. Then you deserve what you get. And that's where the sediment comes, that you know what, if the price of bacon goes to $23 a pound in California, then maybe the people that are looking at that and saying this isn't right, they should turn around and vote the people out of office that thinks that they want to, they want to be the nanny state. They want to tell people what they can eat.

They want to tell people where they can go. They want to tell people what, you know, what they can do. So a lot of people feel like they're not really interested in meeting this law. And the press does a good job of talking, constantly about the percentage of meat, the percentage of the market that goes to California. And it's like 13% of the total market. In the U.S. That's a big number. That's a big number.

Well, here's the thing. That meat will go somewhere else. Now then, will it go somewhere else at the same price that they could have gotten for it in California? I don't know. But it will go because that's the supply and demand of economics is if there is more meat for sale at a certain price, then the price goes down. And if there is not enough meat for everybody that wants it, the price goes up. And so will this hurt pork prices?

Well, it could. But we could export more. and if we export less, the price goes down. And then when that happens, the difference between the price everywhere else in the United States and the price in California gets that much greater, which I would think if I was a resident of California that enjoyed having bacon, sausage, pork butt, whatever,

my blood pressure would go up that much higher and I would vote the people out of office that... Or you move. Or you move. And I think there's... I mean, you're seeing the trend. Most people that have, you know, common sense are getting the hell out of there. Because they understand what's going on.

But, yeah, I think you're right. They really are trying to make people, let's just be honest, vegan there. The people that pass that are against meat. They're against the animal industry and they don't... And capitalism. And, I mean, it's just... But they have their agenda and they're going to tell you that it's for animal welfare. But it's just like the...

It's the basic thing that you said in the very beginning. If it was about animal welfare, they don't really care about those piglets then because... No. People don't really... I don't really think people understand what you said, which is very important. Yeah, and that all goes back to when in the natural...

In the natural world, if Hussau Faroed, she never ferroed, she never had 12 babies to start with. she might have had, you know, I don't know what wild boars, I don't know what feral hogs, I don't know what the size of a litter is, but maybe it's six pigs. Well, I guarantee you they had the same things happen in the wild, and they might only actually have two, maybe one, maybe two, maybe three piglets that survive. And so when farmers started, you know, when we domesticated the hog, The goal was to save as many piglets as you could because you were trying to feed your family,

and then upon feeding your family, you were trying to make money to feed and clothe your family. And the whole reason that we put pigs inside was it was a better environment through the months of the year that were not very tolerable to pigs, which the winter months in the Midwest, we had a lot of grain, but we didn't have, you can't raise pigs outside the winter. I mean, you can, but it's very difficult and not very successfully. And it's hard on the animals. So we put them inside. And then the reason that we put a sow in a farrowing crate, when she ferrows, is to save more piglets,

which is the humane thing to do for the piglets so they don't get squashed. That's what it is. It's not because we're like, boy, how could we restrict these animals more? Maybe we should just chain them down. No, that's not the reason why. The reason why, and that's why we raise pigs and finishers, and we could do a whole episode about that. Yeah, we will in the future. We will make an episode on that because people aren't curious, but that was a long answer to the first question. Pretty much, to sum that up,

people don't really give a shit and they're not going to abide by California. It's when we're talking about the people we've talked to in our local community and the talk around, is people really aren't going to let them put their thumb on us and tell us what the hell we're going to do. If California wants to be California, let them be California and see what the people think in California. Yeah, and there's virtually no pork race in California. In fact, I don't know if there's any pork actually raised. Is Neiman's Ranch? Is Neiman's Ranch in California? I have no idea. They're like the biggest pasture brand of pigs. I don't know if they're in California or not. I don't know. There's very little pork actually raised in California. Yeah. So anyway, that was our little thoughts and spiel on that. We're going to try, Dad. We're trying to reach out to somebody on the national pork board. to really go in depth on that.

If we could have them on as a guest, that would be really awesome. We're trying there. Soyer, what do you think contract hog finishing will look like in 20 years? This is a hard one, and I think we'll jump in here a little bit too, but it's really hard to say what that will look like, just because people want pasture raise, but some people really don't give a shit. and I think two, I think both things can be on the same level.

Like I think we can have both. But if people think that you're going to be able to raise all the pigs we're raising now outside, you've lost your damn mind. It is not going to happen. It's not possible. We just touch on a big reason as to why that is. In Iowa, aren't we the number one leading in pork production? I think so. We have really, really brutal winners, really brutal winners. And we did. Our family farm

raised pigs outside. And there's a reason we put them inside because it's better for the pig. It's better for the people raising the pigs. It's better for everybody. And you think, and we don't have enough land to do so. We're also high in corn and soybean production here in Iowa. We're a big agricultural state. We need every piece of ground farm ground we can to produce corn and soybeans and whatever else. We're big and grain farming too. So if you think that you're going to be able to raise 2,400 pigs on the same acre or acres a hog barns on, you've lost your damn mind. You're sadly mistaken.

You're sadly mistaken. It takes a lot of ground. You can do it, but it takes a lot of ground to raise pasture raised pigs. It really does. You got to rotate them on multiple pieces. of land consistently week by week by week or two weeks by two weeks by two weeks I've done a little watching into it but there's no freaking way you could do that here and I don't know I don't know I don't know exactly where I think it's going to go I think you're still going to need hog barns I think if people

still they're supposed to be 10 billion people by 2050 10 billion people I think we're at 7 billion right now right seven or eight seven or eight billion that's a lot of people to feed so I think you can still have, I think you can still have pasture raise farmers. I think you can have people that do what we do. But you can't have just this. It is not going to work. It is just not going to work. There's going to be more people than there is now. And if you do it that way, it's going to be less productive than it is now. If you try to say, oh, we can do pasture raise, you can't. It's going to be less productive and there's going to be more people to feed. So tell me how that is going to work. Well, the other side of that is, and we didn't really touch on this.

but to pasture-raised pigs the labor side of it. Yep, I didn't even, yep, you're right. That equation doesn't work. So Sawyer and I, we raise 20,000, just shy of 20,000 butcher pigs a year, the two of us. Basically, the two of us. We hire a little bit of labor to help us load pigs, and we hire some labor to, like, power wash for us. Other than that, we do everything ourselves. And vaccinate.

Yeah. Okay. For us to pasture raise pigs, we couldn't do... I don't know if we could do a thousand pigs. No. I'm pretty sure... I don't think we could.

You can raise 300 pigs on... I think it's like... I don't know for sure, but I watched a video on it, somebody doing it. And they had four woodlots that were probably, I think you need like 10 acres to do 300 pigs.

Yeah. So basically all the land that we have, you and bail raise crops, you'd have to have an alfalf or grass, and then you'd have to rotate them through there. So, you know, long story short is it's a money thing. Well, it's labor, so it's labor, it's environmental. So you want to talk about your carbon footprint?

You know how much the hog business has dropped its carbon footprint over the last 10 years, the amount of water, the amount of power, and the amount of carbon generated, it's gone down significantly. If you put pigs outside, and so we're paying for, we've, we touched on this before, but about carbon credits, if you take a field that you've been conventionally tilling and you know till it, that sequesters carbon because you're not turning over the soil. So that's a good thing, in my air quotes or without, whatever, it's a good thing. And so you are keeping that carbon from being released. Do you know what would happen if we put 10,000 pigs outside and even if we rotate them?

Those pigs are like a spade on four legs. They are built to root because traditionally they're scavengers and they root around looking for roots and bugs and whatever they can eat. Truffles if you have a distinguished palate. But anyway, they're made to turn over the soil. what does that do? It releases a lot of carbon. So you can't have it. You can't have this whole thing both ways. You can't say that it's so much better for the animals and it's so much better for the environment, but it's not good for the environment because over here you're telling people you don't want to turn over the soil because that releases carbon, which is causing global warming, but we're going to put all these pigs outside and they're going to root the ground and that's okay. And then I saw in this video too, they say, well, they spread their fertilizer out on it. Right. So it gets in the ground after they turn it up and they spread the fur.

We do the same damn thing with what we're doing. We take the manure out of the pit and put it on our fields. Right. So if you want to talk about fertilizer, we do the same exact thing. Yeah. And I can't even imagine the regulation. Like, I don't know how you would even regulate that. Yeah.

Because you'd have people that would do it very well. And then you'd have people that did it that they left the pigs on a chunk of, of ground way too long to where when they did rotate them, there would be no vegetation left, which they'll do that. I mean, they'll do that in a pretty short amount of time. Right. We've probably gone too far anyway. So what is it going to look like? So maybe I can see a little compromise. We talk about this a little bit. Maybe you don't put as many pigs in a finisher. Maybe we can't put 2,400 pigs in a finisher. But do I see finishers going completely, getting completely outlawed? No, I don't see that happening. There's no way that can happen

for production, no way. Maybe we put less pigs in there, but maybe I could see that happening. Maybe they develop a roof that opens up and they get a little bit more sunlight. I don't know, but do I see the finisher or the sow unit or the nursery going away? Do I see hog barns going away? No. Looks like a lot of remodel. I'd like to get back into the building business because the only thing that makes more money than selling new buildings is insurance claims and remodels. I love re-oh, I loved remodels because the margin is fantastic. It's a long story short.

I don't really know, but I think Barnes are going to stay and be here for the long run. That's good. And in 20 years, my answer is, hopefully I won't care. Okay. So do you think the government has it made it harder for small farmers to stay small and succeed? Yes. Next question.

No. I do think so. I think that the nature of government, government is to expand. Whether that's, whether that's planned or unplanned, when you, when you hire people to go to make laws, they feel like they need to make laws. And so, um, we have a, we have a, uh, a lady that is retired from the state senate that is from southeast Iowa. And a quote, this isn't like a direct quote, but I remember her talking to a group of people. And she said that in all the time that she was in government, she felt like her greatest accomplishment was all of the bills that she killed, all of the legislation that she made sure didn't happen. And the reason for that is,

because government just grows. And a lot of it is well-intentioned, but it just adds more and more and more regulation upon people. And whatever form it is, whatever report it is, whatever you have to do, if you're a small business owner, you have to accommodate that. So whether that's more money you're paying your accountant,

more time that you're spending yourself, more time that you're spending with a lawyer, because now then you have to form some kind of a legal entity to be protected from liability, whatever it is. And then the other side of that is, and this isn't government, this is just the natural beast of capitalism.

It is. So a guy that I used to, to work for said whatever business you're in, if you're not growing a little bit, you're going backwards. And we know that firsthand. If you're not growing, you're dying. I mean, that's true because your costs go up every year. I'll give you a great example. So a guy that had a set of finishers, he had him for 10 years. And in the 10 years, his contract for what he got paid for taking care of those pigs was the same for 10 years. And in that time, his cost for permitting, his cost for electricity, his cost for farm insurance, all of that stuff

basically doubled. But his income that he received off the building stayed the same because it was contract. So that's why people have to grow. Visit BetMGM Casino and check out the newest exclusive. The price is right, fortune. Pick. BetMGM and GameSense Reminds remind you to play responsibly. 19 plus to wager. Ontario only. Please play responsibly.

If you have questions or concerns about your gambling or someone close to you, please contact connects Ontario at 1-866-531-2,600 to speak to an advisor. Free of charge. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with Eye Gaming Ontario. Yeah, so you say that's, you know, that's the reality of capitalism. You know, if you're not growing, you're dying, you've got to go. go you've got to move with the times and everything that you do and grow. But the other great thing about capitalism is that you get that chance to do exactly that.

You have the better opportunity to do that than a farmer or another country. Yeah. I mean, yeah, your back is getting pushed against the wall. Like, hey, you need to grow or you're going to get pushed out. But you have the opportunity to do so. Yeah. And the other thing I'll say on government is when they come in and they try to play favorites, And they try to artificially fix problems as far as competition goes or whatever.

It usually doesn't work out all that well. And I don't know what the answer is because I think that is true. It gets harder. And in my business, it gets harder. But we're also trying to do more things. And, you know, for us, the only reason that we're viable today is because of the hog business. So if we were grain farmers,

if we were, because our grain farming operation is basically the same size it's been since I was in high school. And if we were only doing that, there's no way Sawyer would be here because the costs have gotten bigger, but we've been able to leverage the hogs

and that's what's kept us relevant. And now then today, what we're doing social media-wise and what we're doing with- Outside of the farm. Outside of the farm, that is, we're hoping, I mean, really, we're hoping that that is the next hedge that is going to give us the leverage to keep growing, to get us to get our backs off that wall and start beating the shit out of the bully.

Yeah. And so it's a vicious circle. You said, I don't know what the answer is. The answer is you just got to bust your ass. If you really want to do this, if you really want to be a farmer, this is the unfortunate situation that we find ourselves in, you got to bust your ass. and you have to be seeking information. You've got to be seeking opportunities left and right and just trying to get your back off that wall.

Because if, and you got to have a reason other than just money to do it. Because, and I think a lot of farms don't just do it for money. They do it because they love it and there's a legacy. But for us, we're doing it for a legacy purposes. That's our why. You know,

we're doing it as generations before us made it work. We got to do our part and make it work too. And I want my kids to live on the farm. and experience that too. So yeah, there's definitely easier ways to make a living than farming. I don't care whether you're, I don't care, you know, what you're doing, grain farming, raising pigs, dairy, beef, growing wheat, whatever it is. Anybody that you talk to, there are easier ways to make money.

But the reason you do what you do isn't about the money. It's not easy and it's not going to get any easier. Those ways might make you more money, but how fulfilling are they? Right. That's the question you got to ask yourself because I'll tell you what, farm is pretty fulfilling. the when we were loading overstocks out and the pigs knocked uh broke my sink i was feeling very fulfilled so there's days that you don't feel fulfilled but you got to just keep pushing all right if you won five million dollars would you sell the farm or make it bigger and better that's like a softball

that's a softball question oh well uh that's real easy for me yes i would grow and make the farm bigger that's my ultimate goal right now um that would barely pay off your gambling debts I don't gamble. I've never been to a damn casino in my life. But yeah, that's a no-brainer for me. 100% would try to make the farm bigger and better. Like Dad touched on, what we're doing now is really just trying to help us get ahead and giving us hope that what we are doing, all the hustles we got is to get us, get our backs off that wall and grow our farm. But yeah, I'd take $5 million. That might help our cause a little bit. But yeah, I'm fully into farming. I want to do it my whole life. I want to do other things outside of just farming. I think you can do that.

I think you can be a farmer and do other things. But farming is always going to be a part of me. It's always going to be in my roots. It's always something I want to be a part of me. I get a lot of fulfillment out of doing it. There's a lot of family and legacy involved in it. And there's nothing really out there like it, to be completely honest with you, if you don't know unless you're in it. The other great thing about farming is it's very rare to be in farming. I think 1% of the total population in the world is a farmer, which is just like crazy. That's awesome. And I feel like it's your kind of your, if you have a chance to be a farmer, you have a real chance.

I think you should give it a shot because you're really, it's really rare to even have the opportunity to do so. And if you're, if you got generations before you that made it happen and they got through and made it viable for you, you should feel, I feel obligated to do the same thing for my kids, and I hope my kids do the same thing for their kids. So, yes, 100% would grow the farm. I don't know if all $5 million would go into the operation. I might want to put some money in other ventures. Like, I want to do businesses outside of the farm, like I said, real estate, maybe start my own business, like direct to consumer or something. But yeah, definitely would use $5 million. That would be really nice right now. I was sitting here all ready to put some smart-ass comment that that was all so well put that I didn't feel like I should say anything smart-ass-by.

That was a really good, that was like a deep, thoughtful answer. Yeah. And all I'll add to that is that, yeah, I mean, I feel the same way. And the only thing that I'll add to that is for any of you that are, that farm or live in a rural community. and this is we've talked about this i i don't know if we're i don't know if our minds run the same as some people sometimes i feel like we're a little crazy as a family but like when i drive down the streets in my hometown my wheels spin about all the things that i would like to do the restaurants that i would like to start the hotel i would like to you know build the buildings we like to restore

Yeah, I mean, so there's no end to the stuff that I would like to do. But my main focus is the legacy that I've got that I've received and transferring it intact and healthy to the next generation is the priority. Yeah, yeah, that's well said. I totally 100% agree, yeah. Number one right now is the farm. Everything else is second, but that doesn't mean I'm not trying to do other things too. So how this is number three question for TORC, how to be a good neighbor to a non-lifestock raising person.

How to be good to your neighbors that's not a farmer or is a farmer but they don't raise livestock? Free bacon. Just go around and give out free bacon. That's a pretty good. That's a pretty good quote right now. Yeah. So I'll tell you what, I'll tell you what we do. and I don't know how many people we get on an annual basis that want to come see what we do.

And a lot of times it's families that have kids that, you know, the kids, they want to see the pigs. They want to see the pigs. And I feel like kind of what we're doing on our YouTube channel is that's part of the reason we started that, is to, I mean, I wouldn't say we started it to be a good neighbor, but we started it to show. people, not just our neighbors, but people in general, what we do and why we do it and what it looks like, because everybody drives by and, you know, we're like most people, we spend too much time mowing our yard and we mow too much yard. I don't know why we mow the road ditches as far as we do and we mow, you know, well, it looks nice when you're done, you know. My dad always said, because I hated Moen when I was a kid, but I hated doing a lot of things.

You know, it doesn't make any money, but it sure looks nice when you're done. And, you know, people drive by and they see it, and I feel like we have, we've got some junk sitting around, but we've got less junk than we did when I kind of took the reins on this thing. And if it was up to Sawyer, there'd be a lot more gone than what there is. But, you know, we keep the place tidy, and it looks nice. you know, people that drive by that know where we live, you know, they comment that, you know, it's a nice, it's a well-kept place. But I think most people do that. But be open to showing people what you do and why you do it. Because people are interested. People want to know. And there's

some people that you're not going to satisfy. There's some people that, there's haters. Yeah, there's people that, no matter what you do or how how nice you are and how good intention do you are deep down they are a hundred percent bought in that what you're doing is not good and you're not going to you're not going to have good relations with those people and the best you can hope for is for them to accept the fact that you're a nice person but you agree to disagree respect each other yeah that's all And that's, yeah. Also, another thing about that is just, you never know, I know farmers are like, I don't want to get on YouTube. I don't want to do that. It's not, your dad, you hit the point, right? We want to show people why we do it, what we do it, you know, and you show how people, show people

how their foods made. But another thing that people don't really talk about as far as being an advocate and showing people agriculture, it could really, we talked about how labor is such a hard thing right now. and it's a hard thing in a lot of blue-collar jobs and stuff. But it's a big problem in farming too. But if you make content and you make really good content and you make good content, it could spark a young kid's interest that may never be in agriculture, it wasn't born in agriculture, but it could spark their interest and they want to do that for a living

because you put it YouTube video out. You don't know how powerful you could actually be by just doing your day-to-day stuff. I don't know. I could have sparked an interest. in a kid that didn't know pig farming before, but now he saw one of our videos and he thinks it's, I want to do that for when I grow up. And we need that. I'm going to be completely honest. Agriculture needs more young people. We need more labor. We need more people willing to do the job. And the best part-time help that we have is a kid that did not grow up on a farm.

And we've had a lot of kids help us that did grow up on a farm that aren't very good. Right. But the kid that helps us, he is great help and he didn't grow up on a farm. Right. He's a hustler. Shout out to you, Kail, you badass. You are. You're a true American. Hell yeah. But the other thing to be a good neighbor, I think, is when we're hauling manure, you go up with the skid loader, and, you know, we haul, we have our manure hauled. We don't have enough ground to put all our manure on, so we have to give some manure away. So we give it to one of our neighbors that has a field close to us. And, you know, we get tankers come, and they get the manure, and they haul it up to that field. And sometimes,

they well depends unless it's bone dry you're going to track dirt out on the road yeah you're track dirt onto the road and dirt and poop kind of looks similar and when somebody sees a manure hauler and then doesn't grow up on a farm and they they're just obvious you know they obviously assume that it's probably poop i mean some people probably know that it's dirt but most people are probably oh manure hauler it's got to be poop on the road so dad goes up with the skid load and you know you scrape off the roads make sure it's all good give out free bacon let the neighbor kids come show people what you're doing. And if you're going to build a hog barn or a cattle barn,

probably don't put it right next to a house. Yeah, that's another thing, I would say. Try your best not to do that because we, I mean, we have hog barns on our farm, but I don't feel like our homes, you can't really smell it from our house. Do you agree? No.

I don't think so. Maybe a cat and mom would disagree because our noses are just used to it. But I really think if you can try to eliminate that, that'd be idea. Yeah, just be smart about what you do. Yeah. And I'll say that. That was a good thing that you brought up about haul manure.

So talk about neighbors and all this is a great example because every year for the last probably eight years, maybe longer, every time that fall comes and we start hauling manure, the DNR, somebody from the DNR will call me and ask me if we're tracking manure out on the road. And what's really funny about this is that usually, and usually when this happens, it's when either A, we aren't even hauling manure. Somebody else, a neighbor of ours is hauling,

but it's going to the field right next to where ours usually goes, so they assume it's us, so they call. Or we are hauling manure, but we're hauling it on our own ground right around our hog buildings, and we're not crossing the highway. And the DNR has gotten to the point that they don't come out, and they will just text me. They don't even call me.

Somebody from there text me and just say, and ask, are you hauling manure on the road? And the reason they're doing that is because somebody's calling and complaining that we're hauling manure down the road and it's spilling all over the road, when in fact there isn't anything going on. It's just like what I said. They think it's poop on the road. Well, no, there isn't, they're just calling to complain because they don't like what we're doing. Right. No, yeah. And so you can't please everybody. You just can't. And, but the wrong way to handle that, the wrong way to handle that is to get all pissed off and then go guns blazing, trying to figure out who it is because you aren't going to change that person's mind.

No. And, you know, my thing is, there's a lot of things I don't like. I could do a whole episode about all the stuff I don't like and that I think are wrong with this country. But the truth of the matter is, I got too much stuff to do. I've got to run this thing. so I don't have time to complain about what other people are doing. Right. And if you do, you're just wasting a lot of time.

You're just wasting a lot of time. Yeah. And it's like what you said. And I think a lot of people in this country need to hear this right now. You don't have to agree on freaking everything, people. And if you agree on one side of the spectrum and you agree on one thing on the other side of the spectrum, and that's okay. Yeah.

You can respect people for who they are and what they believe in, but don't have to get in freaking heated debates and hate each other because of one thing. Right. Respect each other, damn it. Yeah. Yeah, it's not a lot of tolerance. Just respect. You just got to respect each other.

Expect your fellow man because... Are you going to break into some Aretha Franklin? Well, son of a gun. It's ridiculous. People are more childlike now than they've ever been. All right. Is it mine or your turn? Go ahead.

Oh, when getting into contract hogs, is it better to buy a used barn cheap or build a brand new one? So, dad and I have had a lot of conversation about this between both of us, between our, you know, our conversations. It used to be when dad built his first barn, it was a really good deal to build a hog barn. It was like the ticket. It was a really good ticket to get your young kids started and farming. It was cheaper. And it just, it was a great deal.

Cash flowed really, really nicely. You could do something on the side and then chore the hog. barn on the farm and you you were making pretty good money and all that good stuff the interest wasn't so high and all that um but now the materials are more expensive inflation's gone up um how much money cash flow as much as they used to how much money do you pay yourself out of your hog building i pay zero dollars out of my new hog barn yeah i'm i'm on the plan to just try to pay that thing off i could pay myself some money not very much not very much not very much money and if I didn't have dad's barns that I'm chorn now on top of mine there's no way there's no way I could do there's no way I could make money doing it I you'd have to have something really solid

on the side on the side and then you pretty much not you wouldn't have to you couldn't take anything away from the barn that you just built and once they're paid for it's amazing it's it's a really great deal but it's really hard to get started building hog barn so my My suggestion for somebody that's really wanting to get into hog farming, contract hog farming, is by a used hog barn if you can get your hands on it. But a lot of people know how good of a deal they are once they're paid off, and it's hard to convince somebody. But the well's already there.

The driveway's already there. The generator's probably already there. Everything is already. Permitted already there. DNR. Would you have to change your manure management plan? Just transfer it. Just transfer the manure management plan over to the guy that buys it.

everything's right there, which is really nice. So the only cost you're really looking at is, you know, buying the barn and then having to do some renovations. Yeah. Which you're going to have to probably, chances are, you're probably going to have to gut a lot of it because someone's going to get, they're going to milk that barn out as long as they can because they know how good of a deal it is once it's paid for.

And they did the work to pay it off. So you got to respect those guys. But if, you know, if we go out, I mean, we've talked about it flat out. we would like to go buy some barns. I think that's the right way to do it in the situation that we are in now. If we are ever at the point where we want to expand as far as raise more pigs for us, the best way to do that would be buy an existing site. By an existing site, yeah.

And we could, if we got some more ground, I think with the ground that we got were maxed out on barns. If we got more ground in the future and we had all the other barns completely paid for, we could afford to probably put up another barn. But I'd like, I mean, ideally we'd go get some used barns if we could. So if I was a young person and I was trying to start out and I was trying to find a way to get started in the hog business, what I would suggest is to look around your community because when I was doing the contracts,

when I was writing the contracts and renewing contracts and dealing with growers for the integrator that we feed for now, when I worked for them, the number of people that have barns in the state of Iowa under contract for various companies, the average age of that farmer that's doing it is just like the average age of the farmers that are farming ground.

It's probably not as old, but it's definitely older, and it's getting older every year like all of us. And there are a lot of guys out there that they started out raising wiener pigs and then they switch to feeder pigs because they don't want to have to bend over and pick up pigs and vaccinate them and do all that.

and labor is such a hard thing to find and finding people that will take that will do your chores but also take good care of the barn is incredibly hard to find it's rare very rare i would look for somebody a farmer that is older that is still chorn his barns or has got some part-time help and i would go to that guy and i would ask him whether or not he would be interested in you chorn his barns under the idea that at some point he offered to sell you those barns, you know, down the road. It's got to be the right situation, but there are, there's a lot of people out there that have got barns, that maybe they don't have any kids that came back, that are farming with them. And the other reason that that's a good end is

there's plenty of people that want to rent your farm ground. I mean, if I said tomorrow that we were going to get out of the grain business. I bet you I could have 12 people wanting to rent our ground in three days. But if I said, I want to get out of our hog, our hog buildings, and I want somebody to take care of them, that list would be way smaller because there's not very many people that want to do that, because that's, that looks like work. Yeah, it's a little. So as a young person, you got to be able to, you got to be willing to do what other people don't want to do because it's hard. and if I was trying to get in, that's how I would get in. And the secret here, folks, is that people don't want to tell you.

Yeah, it's, it is work. These hog barns, raising pigs is work. But when you get the, when you get those buildings paid for, that work really starts reap and benefit. Well, it's a game changer. It's a low-key, it's low-key, the best piece of real estate you can have unless you're going and buying like a 40-plex, a 50-plex, whatever. I mean, a hog-barn is a real-changer.

really good piece of real estate that will cash flow very nicely for you if you get it paid for. So like you said, I think that's a really good, really good answer, really good plan for a young person. But you will have to chore that person's barns, that man's barns, the farmer's barns, and hopefully work out a deal that he can do that for you in the future. But you're going to have to do that renno. You're going to have to do some renovations. So take care of it while you are choreing it, make sure you're doing everything you can to keep it held together, but eventually you're going to have to do some rental once you get him, because I'm assuming he's going to give him to you when the barn's a little bit older. So you're going to probably have to do some work

outside of the chorn to save some money so that when that time comes, you can do it. But yeah, that is a solid plan. That's something I would probably do. I think that's a really good way. So yeah, the answer is short summary of that question is, yeah, try to go get a used barn if you can versus building a brand new one, unless you want to hit the fricking lotto or somebody gives you $5 million. Yeah, and I will add this. If you're looking at used barns, be careful of what you're looking at as far as size-wise, because one thing that has become of late kind of a liability is there was a time in this

contract feeding where bigger, bigger, bigger, all these integrators were wanting big sites. They were wanting 5,000 head sites or 7,200 head sites or even people that had 10,000 head sites. And a lot of those sites were built. And then guess what? They figured out that... The biosecurity is dog shit. It's not very good.

And if you get 2,400 head pigs sick, they get over it. And then you've got 2,400 head of healthy pigs again. If you have a 10,000 head site and you get one barn gets sick, then the next barn gets sick, the next barn gets sick, and the next barn gets sick, and the next barn gets sick, and the next barn gets sick, you, by the time the last barn's getting over, the first barn, they could be getting sick again. And so a lot of these integrators have gone away from that. They've gone back. They want 2,400s. They don't want anything bigger than that. So if you're out looking to get started and you see a deal and it's like, oh, there's a 7,200 head site and it's coming up for auction, you know, and it looks pretty decent,

well, the reason, not 100%, but part of the reason that that could be such a good deal is because no integrator wants that site. They don't want to touch the damn thing. They don't want it. Now, I'm not saying that not everybody wants it, and I'm not saying that we might not get to a point where those sites will work. You know, we may get biosecurity-wise, we may get to the point where we can make those work. But today, I'd be very leery of getting a big site. And if you're the one short, I'll just tell you, I wish that, I wish our double site, my 5,000 head site, I wish those are two separate barns that were away. because from a work, from a, from a workflow, it's, it's easier to get it turned. It's filled faster, you dump faster, everything's just faster, and the virus security would be better if they were separate.

They just are. So just take it from us. That was fired, Dad. That was a bomb. It's getting hot in here. It's getting hot in this barn because we're just dropping so much value right now. But I think that's going to wrap it up. We're, that's, that's six questions right there, folks. Three each. We kind of, I think with that one, very well. That was our first run at the Q&A and we kind of went kind of went in good there, I thought. So we're going to keep, keep this up. Next week, I think we're going to try to get a guest on. So we'll get a guest on next week and then we'll probably do one that solo with no questions and then we'll get back to doing one with questions. So every week I'll probably just ask, drop some questions for us, drop some questions for us because the next Q&A episode will be answering those questions. So if you're listening to this podcast or watching this podcast, drop some questions.

Find us going on, go on our Instagram, DM us. We'll probably do a poll on our Instagram story to ask us some questions or just drop them down in the comments and we'll answer them next week. We'll pick the best ones and drop some deep questions, damn it. These were good questions, but I don't want to know, what's your favorite breed of pigs? You know, I mean, this is a podcast. We got to get in some conversations. So drop some deep questions.

And it doesn't just have to be about farming. It doesn't have to just be about farming. It can be about life. It can be about business. It can be about anything you want us to answer. We'll probably go ahead and answer it if it's deep. Yeah, this is, we're finally getting a little cooler weather. So we're actually shooting this in the morning.

And the reason for that is we got all our chores done. And I'm going to go and get ready and do the rest of the stuff I got to do. And then I'm going to try to take a nap because tonight, I'm going to the big city of Cedar Rapids. I'm flashing back to my younger years. I'm going to see Blue Oyster Colt, which Blue Oyster Colt, which Blue Oyster Colt is actually more of my brother's generation than mine,

but I inherited all of his cassettes when he went to college, so I got Blue Oyster Cold. I've actually never heard of their band. What's one good song? Don't Fear the Reaper. Oh, yeah, yeah. I know that song. Yeah, everybody knows that.

It's a good song. So I'm going to get my, I don't think I'll buy, a t-shirt. That was 70s, right? They were in the 70s. 78 or something. Probably close. I don't really even know, but I know that when my brother went to college in 82, he left me, he left me his collection of the Doobie brothers, sticks, Led Zeppelin, Toyster Colts. Torch's going to get rowdy tonight. Yeah, so if you're out and about and you see a circus midget running around, I don't know if I'll have my ball cap on or not, but we're, so I got to get a nap in because I'll probably be, concert starts at seven.

It could be almost midnight. I'd be pretty late for you. Pretty late for me. You're going to drink some crown? I don't know. I don't know. I know that I'm not, I know that I won't be drinking any of those crooked finger seltzer drinks or any foo-foo stuff like that.

I haven't tried the happy dads by full send or no, but I'll try those, but I'm like, I like the beer and the mixed drinks. But yeah. So like I said, if you get any value from this guy's, or you got any value from this, guys. Share it out to your friends, shared out to your family, share it out to your coworkers.

And with that being said, I think we're going to wrap it up and we'll see you back here next week. Have a great, great weekend. And thanks for watching. Thanks for watching. Thanks for listening.

See you next week, guys.