Barn Talk - Family Farm Legacies: To Sell or Not to Sell?

Episode Date: September 13, 2024

Welcome back to Barn Talk! In today's Q&A session, we'll be talking about everything from balancing the financial and emotional aspects of family farming to the nitty-gritty of commodity prices and market dynamics. We'll tackle a pressing question from Adam in Ontario who's wrestling with a lucrative buyout offer for his family farm and the legacy it represents. We'll weigh the emotional ties against the allure of a big payday and discuss the broader implications for farmers. Get ready for insights on the challenges facing the agriculture sector, from market pressures and regulatory landscapes to the evolving role of big box stores and the influence of foreign supply chains. Plus, we’ll touch on the recent shakeups in the fertilizer market and dig into the importance of telling your own farm's story to build a resilient brand. Use code BARNTALK for 10% OFF your next order https://farmergrade.com SUBSCRIBE TO THE PODCAST ➱ https://bit.ly/3a7r3nR   SUBSCRIBE TO THIS’LL DO FARM ➱ https://bit.ly/2X8g45c  SUBSCRIBE TO BARN TALK CLIPS ➱ https://bit.ly/3BlZnqq   LISTEN ON: SPOTIFY ➱ https://open.spotify.com/show/3icVr4KWq4eUDl7Oy60YMY  ITUNES ➱ https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/barn-talk/id1574395049 Follow Behind The Scenes👇🏻 ● This’ll Do Farm Instagram ➱ https://bit.ly/30KPBNk   ● Barn Talk TikTok ➱ https://bit.ly/3qciekS   ● Sawyer’s Instagram  ➱ https://bit.ly/3BtX0n4   ● Tork’s Instagram ➱ https://bit.ly/3LGZJxS    00:00 Share, review show, support direct-to-consumer meat. 08:26 Struggle with selling land for quick cash. 10:07 Lack faith in cash, fear bad decisions. 17:53 Agriculture's high entry deters competition, ensures specialization. 25:10 Highlight the farm's story, not workforce diversity. 27:40 Farmer frustrated with regulations and corporate changes. 37:16 Simple thrills and food make me feel alive. 42:04 Nitrogen market competitive despite Koch brothers' acquisition. 48:07 Mosaic spun off from Cargill for competitiveness. 53:49 Anger should be directed at Iowa, not Kochs. 58:58 Reshoring supply chains for better security costs. 01:01:05 Barn talk shirt: Podcast mother warned you about. ------------------------------- ***PLEASE NOTE*** Barn Talk is a significant break from the typical content viewers have come to expect from This’ll Do Farm. Please be advised that we will be exploring a wide variety of topics (some adult-themed) and our younger viewers (and their parents) should be advised that some topics will be for mature audiences only. ⚠NO FINANCIAL ADVICE / DISCLAIMER⚠  The Information discussed and shared on Barn Talk is provided for educational, informational, and entertainment purposes only, without any express or implied warranty of any kind, including warranties of accuracy, completeness, or success for any particular purpose. The Information contained in or provided from or through this podcast is not intended to be and does not constitute financial advice, investment advice, trading advice, or any other advice. The Information on this podcast and provided from or through our content is general in nature and is not specific to you, the user or anyone else. You should not make any decision, financial, investment, trading or otherwise, based on any of the information presented on this podcast without undertaking independent due diligence and consultation with a professional, professional broker or financial ... Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

All of the food we eat and much of the clothing we wear comes from plants and animals that are raised on farms. Farms are different in type, in size, and even in name. Welcome to Barn Talk. What happens at the barn stays in the barn, but not today. We're going to let it all out for you guys. Today is going to be a Barn Talk Q&A episode. You guys submitted your questions and we're going to get them answered on the show on today's episode. If you want to submit your questions in to be answered on the show, you can email us your questions at Barn Talk. show at gmail.com or you can comment your questions on the YouTube for our Q&A episodes. If you get any value from the show, share it out with the people that you know.

That's all that we asked you guys to do if you like the show and get any value. Word of mouth is kind of the best way to grow a podcast that we have found. So if you laugh, if you're related to us on something, if you learn something, all that we ask is you share it. Another thing you can do to help us out here at Barn Talk is leave a review on Spotify or Apple. We're so close to 3,000 five-star reviews on Spotify, and we're getting close to that 2,000 five-star review mark on Apple. The reviews really help us out and give us a tremendous amount of credibility, which helps us get more guests on the show. Last thing you guys can do

to support us here on our farm and at Barn Talk is support our direct-to-consumer meat business, Farmergrade. Farmagrade.com. It's a direct-to-consumer meat business that we started a year and a half ago, really just showing people what we do every day on our farm and all the farmers that we have on Farmer Grade do exactly that. So it's 100% transparent meat. We got beef on there, pork on there, chicken on there, American Wagyu on there. And we're always running a cut of the week, 20% off that you can always pick up. So be looking out for that. And you can also use code Barn Talk to save 10% off your next order. How are you doing today? Fantastic. That's good. What's the hot deal this week?

I mean, I know by the time they're doing a hot deal on pork spare ribs. Everybody likes pork spare ribs. And so I figured, you know what? It's getting closer to the end of summer. You know, the hot days are numbered. So I figured if people want to get some ribs on the smoker, better run a special on those. And they do move pretty well. So I figured, you know what?

Better list those on there and get her done. Get her done. So before we get in the episode, I just want to say, bear with me uh i got sick over last week i got sick and i had a little bit of a fever and i just feel congested as hell so i'm kind of getting over it a little bit but i hate getting sick it sucks just throws you off completely you're not hungry you're lose weight and just sucks yeah kind of i'm sick i'm the best thing you do is feed a cold yeah i don't know i don't i lose my appetite when that happens i just start sweating

I should try that. Yeah. I do you good. You want some market update? Yeah, let's hear it. Okay, the market update for today. Hot off the press, courtesy of Katz Grain in Washington, Iowa. Corn for September, 384, December contract, 407.

307 local at one of the feeders, and both Cargill and ADM and Cedar Rapids have 414 until I think maybe the middle of the month. Yeah, pretty quick. Got to get up there. You better go now. You better just leave now if you want that bid, because I don't know for sure when it changes. Bean, September contract, $10 even money today.

Burlington, 961, 993 across the river in Quincy. Bean meal, 317 a ton. Wheat, September, 568. Been a pretty good wheat for the wheat market. Hogs, not so great. $78. Looks like hogs are headed back not so great for a while. I want to say that like December hogs are like $71 or something like that.

Spring looks pretty good, but man, we're having a heck of a time with that hog market. Cattle for October 177, feeder cattle, 234, crude oil, $68.70. Bitcoin backed off a little bit. 56,000, or 56,300. Tesla 216, gold, $2,530. Silver, $2581. Your friend Beyond Meat, $5.93. It's gone up.

No, it's down. The 52-week low is $5. I always feel like you went $4. I don't know why. 52-week low is $5.88. We're headed there, though. Okay. We're going to set a new low.

Set a new low. That's a good. that's, I support it. I support the low. Yep. Heck of a deal. Yeah. Okay.

So, yeah, so we're going to get into some really good questions. And some of these are pretty lengthy with a lot of context, but I feel like to be able to answer the question properly, we got to give all the context. So this is a question from Canada, and this guy's name is Adam. Adam, shout out to you. Thanks for submitting your question and being a listener. Hey, guys, longtime listener from Ontario, Canada. This might get a little long winded.

This week I was contacted by an investment company as the co-founder drove by the farm. He pulled my number from my sign at the road selling beef. His company is located five hours away in Toronto, but he said that he had a great interest in my area for future investments. Was he put in parentheses, was the drive targeted or just dumb luck? To give you an idea, I live beside a town of 2,000 people. Nothing earth-shattering, and the closest city is 15 minutes away and only has 50,000 people. These guys offered me 30,000 an acre in cash. The real estate value of my land is probably around 15,000 an acre.

450 acres times 30,000 would be $13.5 million. They're so hungry for land that they'd have said that the business could stay and I could continue dairy farming for as long as I like. I declined the offer. I'm pretty stuck on continuing my family farms legacy like you guys always talk about. But you can't help but think about the other avenues with these things. The businessman in me says, you take the buyout, continue farming the land, and buy more land away from the farm for less and grow the size of the business.

You can even retire from farm and invest that $13.5 million and make over a million a year in interest. Definitely better ROI than growing $4 corn. The farmer in me, though, is connected to this land. My family has been on it since 1915, so hopefully in the future I find myself on the same piece of ground with a new generation taken over. I'd love to hear what you guys would do in this situation. Are you connected to your home farm that deep? Do you chase the business opportunity? Thoughts on investment companies jumping into the land market, things around that topic.

Anyways, love the content and look forward to it every week. Thanks. Hello, you do money bags. Yeah, that's so hard because that is such a number. but to me I'm so connected to the land. Here's where my mind goes immediately. When all the rich fuckers and investment guys want to buy land, it just tells you how lucky you are to have that land, right? I mean, I know it does not cash flow worth a shit when you're grain farming it. I just, I know, we know.

We know what the cash flow is going to be this year. It's not great, right? and it's crazy that the asset values are the way that they are, but the money that you actually make from the land, what you grow isn't even comparable. And so it's an appealing number, but I just feel like it's so hard to get into farming. It's so hard to get in and stay in.

And the fact that you are in it, I just would, I know I would feel immense regret and just like, I don't know, I would just feel shitty selling it. And I would feel like I might have done my, I wouldn't be able to deal with the back and forth in my head. Did I do the next generation a disservice? Did I make my ancestors roll in their grave just now when I made this decision?

And is being in agriculture for the long run a better play than the quick cash? because that is a serious number. I mean, you're right. You could put that in the S&P 500, $13.5 million, and that's going to return you a minimum of 8% a year. And that just grows. I mean, that's a shitload of money. I mean, you're going to, you could end up being, you know, that could be worth hundreds of millions of dollars, billions of dollars for your kids at some point if that just kept compounding. So it's, it's for real. But I just, I just don't think I could do it. I really don't think I could do it. Um, that's my thing. Yeah, I agree with you. When you said that, here's, I'm, I'm with you. I'm on the same thing. What kind of is weird to me or funny to me is, okay, so you've got somebody willing to pay you double.

Double what the value is, but even the value is, is crazy above what it'll cash flow. But so you have somebody that wants to give you a whole bunch of money. And the reason they want to give you that money is because they have no faith. Like they have no faith in that as a store of value. So they want to trade you, they want to trade you what they don't have faith in to get land because they don't think cash is where they should have their store of value. So that tells me right there that if it's not good enough for them, then why should I take it? And then the second part is I have no, I have very little faith in my own,

in my own abilities to not make stupid decisions. So, you know, 13.5 million. I go on home shopping network, and then the next thing you know, I'm living in a weekly rental motel 6 in Vegas just snorting Coke off a stripper's ass. It's just a spiral. Oh, God.

So I better just stay right here. You better tell people that was your sarcasm. That was sarcasm. Some people might take that the wrong way. If you're a long-time listener, you know Torque's just bullshit. No, but I think really what it comes down to is, now, I will also say this. I don't know what Adam's situation is from the sound of it. It sounds like they're making a go of it.

And so he's hopeful that there's possibility there that, that farm can continue. So if you're somebody and you're like you're on the ropes, like you're barely getting by and there's a lot of guys out there like that. And this year especially as we look, you know, we got another question coming up talking about fertilizer prices and here we are not having a great year as far as commodity prices and then you got to figure out what you're going to do next year. So if you're, if you're on the ropes, I mean, that's a, that's a big number. It's appealing.

My other, my question is, what I assume is these guys are developers, is what I would assume, right? So they see the value in what they can turn it into is what I, what I think. What I think is probably the case is what they're going to try to do. Maybe they're just buying it to store value because they believe it's going to appreciate more than the cash they have. but if they have cash and they're going to pay you that, more than likely, they're probably trying to develop that shit. And my thing with their comment of, oh, you can keep the dairy farm there as long as you want.

Yeah, and let them just build the city around you until, you know, everyone's, you know what I mean? Like, they tell you that until they've built, they developed everything around you and your farm and your dairy farm is the only thing sitting there. And then, yeah, they're going to push you out pretty much. It's what's going to happen. So I don't know. It's a hard, it's every situation is different. Every farm's different.

Every farmer's different. I don't think there's a wrong or right answer. It just really depends on you. But for me, I just feel like I'm bullish on agriculture for the long run because we've said it on this podcast many times. What you produce is a need, not a want. And so, you know, it's always going to be needed. what you do is always going to be needed.

What farmers got to try to do better is we got to try to make more money than what we're making now. And so the ways to do that, there's more and more ways people are figuring out how to do that. But we just got to get more value out of our farming operation than what we're getting right now. And there's a number of ways to do that. But yeah, the commodity market doesn't help. It just doesn't help the farmer out right now. and it just seems to be making things harder and harder.

And costs go up, but the market doesn't go up as much as it needs to go up. And that's really hurting us. So I think it's a quick solution to the problem that we face as farmers, but I think there's a solution that we can all do internally that can potentially make our farm more valuable and put more dollars in our pocket to help us make it make it. And so trying to think about those ideas.

is and those thoughts might be the route to go, but I'm not going to tell you what to do because I'm not in that situation. But that would be my thought process. Our next question comes from Matt. He's a blueberry farmer. Did we talk about, sorry to cut you off, but did he ask, what are your thoughts on investment companies jumping into the land market? Yeah. The second part of that was our thoughts on these land trust and these investment companies and all of that and it's it kind of touches on what i was talking about as far as land as a store of value um the reason they're all here is because there's so much uncertainty about other types of assets so if there was if if they looked at the stock market as a as having huge upside, they wouldn't be in the land market. If they looked at

commercial real estate as having huge upside, they wouldn't be in farmland because they don't really know anything about farmland. But here's the problem. I mean, the S&P 500 is more like what, the S&P 7 and then everybody else. I mean, most of the most of the upside in the stock market over the last five years has really been in like seven or eight companies and everybody else has just kind of been stagnant or barely getting dragging along and then you look at commercial real estate there was a did you see that um there was a a commercial building in new york that sold in 20 i i want to say like 2018 or 2020 for like $358 million.

And it sold an auction two months ago for $8 million. You know why? Because commercial real estate is a, is nobody wants commercial real estate. COVID absolutely trash. Between, between COVID and everybody letting people work at home and figuring out that you don't need to have a big, you know, icon downtown skyscraper. And then the other problem you got is so many of these, so many of these cities have such a tremendous crime problem downtown.

And taxes are high and services are terrible that a lot of these companies, they don't want to own real estate. And so, you know, we're getting off a little bit. But basically, there's not as many good places to put your money. Right. And so land has become very desirable amongst all sorts of investors. And if everything, you know, if anything changes to where, I don't know what the next thing would be, but if anything happens that there's somewhere else in the economy that they think money's going to move, they'll be out of the land just as fast as they got into it. Unless they're developing it. Exactly. My other point that I wanted to make is what I also like about agriculture, and this is with any industry that you try to pursue a career in or you build a business in, agriculture is specialized and it's so hard to get in.

That also is very appealing to me because it's not everybody in their dog can just get in and start farming and make money in agriculture. And so when you talk about competing and competition and, you know, just the industry that you're in, you know, being in it and being specialized in it and knowing it, it's rare to be in it and even to know it. And so it's just like, I don't know. When the cost of entry is so high to get in and you're already in and you can find a way to make it work, it's just that less, there's just that much less competition you have to deal with. versus everybody tries to start a fucking drop shipping store or an Amazon FBA store or social media marketing agency or, you know, whatever, right? Like, it's all about the get rich quick.

Farman's not get rich quick, but if you can learn it, specialize in it, adapt, pivot, grow in it, you're not going to deal with Timmy that's coming out of nowhere that you don't know that's just started a store and kills you. Like, he's not going to just do that. in agriculture and farming. So that's the other thing. It's hard. Alex Ramosey says that, you know, when you start any,

when you get into a business, any business, any industry, every, every obstacle that you face, every adversity moment that you come to, everything you have to overcome. Yeah, it's a,

it's just that much more that your competition isn't willing to go through to make it. So when you pass that hardship, you're just that much further ahead than most people. Because most people... You're just got that much bigger. Yeah. Most people won't make it pass that obstacle and they'll quit.

And so I think ag, there's a fuckload of obstacles and it's really hard to get into. And so when you're in and you can sustain a business, I mean... Better stay. Better stay. Yep. You better stay. I agree.

There's a lot of value there. So go ahead on the blueberry guy. Yeah. So Matt's, Matt sent this to us, and he wanted to know what his, his simple question is, what's your opinion of how he said big box stores, but basically large, large grocery change, large food outlets control how farmers operate. And the example that he gave is they grow and pack their fruit for several big box stores, and they have to have food safety audits and social equality audits.

And he said they love their employees and would not be where they are if they didn't have them. But these stores come in and do what they do inspection-wise, and you would be surprised at how invasive it is into their company and basically into how they run their business. and they're real, they'll quickly let you know that anything that you don't want to, uh, let them do or go forth with them, they, they're not going to allow you to sell to them if, if you don't, if you don't play ball. And, you know, they've got five million pounds of fruit to move within six weeks because that's kind of their, from the time they start harvest till

they're done. And so, you know, they're kind of at the mercy. And so, you know, they're kind of at the mercy. of these guys and he just wanted to know what our opinion or thoughts are on that and i uh i think it's what i my mind instantly goes to is this is just a smaller version of what d ei and large corporations do to the budwisers of the world yep this is exactly why they did the dylan mulvaney campaign because Vanguard or Black Rock or State Street or whoever or could be somebody else said you either start doing some of this shit to appeal to, you know, or we're not going to give you any more money. Or we're not going to back you. Yeah. You know. Or yeah, we'll stack the board against you or we'll kick everybody off the board and we'll replace you. Yeah. I mean, that's what these

guys are doing to these producers and it's fucked up and it's bullshit in my opinion and that's uh that's what's wrong that's what's wrong it's it's not about the result anymore it's about it's about who it's just about all the bullshit yeah like are you where i go is i don't give a fuck how you're getting these berries i mean if you're doing the getting these berries producing these berries legally i don't give a shit who's picking the berries as long as the fucking berries are good. Right. Well, and then the other part of it is, I'm sure it's not just that side. It's this idea, and the American farmer across the board is being attacked by this because it's the same example as Prop 12, where you now have handed over how you're going to produce your product,

you're letting somebody that has no idea, like no idea, no idea what is best for the animal or what is best for your land or what is the best tillage practice or what is this, that, or indifferent, you are handing that over to people that have no freaking idea and they're dictating to you what you do. What you do. And that, I mean, that's, to me, that's horse. but it all goes you know it all kind of goes back to this this pattern that we're seeing where more consolidation uh you know the the sam clubs and the costcos and the really big

uh um supermarket chains i mean they're growing and that is a market that's a business the grocery business is a low margin business and so consolidation consolidation and then they want to drive that price they they want it two ways if you can't differentiate a product which i would hold your thought this is what i here's where i go so they're either doing this because they want their de i scored this is somehow attached to their the big box store is somehow going to add or subtract or whatever to their DEI score from their producers that they work with. That's one way. It's like the carbon thing. These big box stores want to work with producers that have a diversified workforce to help their

DEI score. I don't know if that's how exactly that works, but that's one thing that I'm thinking. But if it's not about that and you're just doing that because you want to tell a better story about the product at your store, why don't you just fucking talk about the farm? Like, why are you talking about the diversity of the farm and the workforce? Why don't you just, like, highlight the farm? Because everybody loves the American farmer. And most of the time when you go to the grocery store,

you have no idea where this is coming from. You have zero clue. Right. So my thought is if you're just trying to tell a better story and you think this is the way to do it, why don't you just tell the farm story and not tell him what to do? Just show what he already does. Yeah, just show what he already does.

But I think it's probably the other thing. It probably is the other thing. But to the end of this, my advice to anybody in that position is, tell your own story. Tell your own story. Because once you build your own brand and you tell your story

and you have autonomy with your consumer, that really limits. It really limits the hand that can be played by the people that are buying your product at the wholesale level because when they come and try to strap some bullshit on you, you have an audience that you can say, hey, here's the deal, and you also open yourself up to more and more and more possibilities of who you could work with. So you're not as likely to get pigeonholed into a deal where, well, this is the only person I got that I can sell this to. Sounds like Farmergrade needs to get into the produce business and work with these kinds of people. Because that's the shit. It's like,

this is the problem. Consolidation, but then all these companies that go public, you're fucked because you you can no longer like i just sat here and thought about it's like man farmer grade i'd love to work with this blueberry farmer he's sending five million dollar you know five million berries or five million pounds or just five million pounds of produce and he's sick of people he's working with because they're trying to put these regulations on him it's like man if there would just be a grocery store out there that wouldn't put regulations on the farmers and just actually highlighted their story and just like worked with them for who they are, that'd be fucking awesome.

But that was probably the founders, you know, that was probably some other box source provision too. And he sold out. And then the fucking board took over. And now it's, now it's the whole DEI shit. And it's the whole diversity. And, you know, it's, it sucks. Because once you go public, you're no, and your company goes that route. your input, you're along for the ride. You're along for the ride. If you're allowed to be on the ride. Yeah.

The board members decide what is best and whatever the revenue is all that matters and whatever the board members say goes. And so that really sucks. I'm sorry, you got to go through that. I think it's stupid and it's like, you know, everybody, everybody's done. We're seeing this being done in business, but it's like in sports. This would never happen to the fucking NFL. Well, I mean, you see, I mean, I guess they take that back.

There's shit that they do, the shit that they pull when they can pull it about, you know, they sing two different national anthems now and yada, yada, yada, yada. They do all kinds. They got shit. They're doing everything they can't. They put shit on the back of their helmets now and da-da-da-da. Everybody's got a message that they want to tell you. But when it comes down to the brass tacks of people playing fucking football,

it comes down to the result of how good you play fucking football. Nobody gives this shit. If you're a Hispanic, if you're black, if you're white. We just want our scene, we want to see good football. Because that's all we care about. And nobody brings that, nobody brings that DEI shit into there because it wouldn't be good football

if you didn't, you didn't base the players off their performance, but inclusive, inclusiveness, and inclusion or whatever. But who still tried? Did you see that, did you see that the San Francisco, who's the new coach of the, is it the Chargers? John Harbaugh?

Yeah, he had a meeting with Colin Kaepernick about bringing him on as a coach. And then they said no, that they weren't going to bring him on a coach. That guy is still out there. He is still out there. He is still fighting the fight, still trying to wave his pity flag. Yeah, that's exactly right. we're off to stuff. But it's just, it's funny that this happens in business now, but really, I don't know. It's just, it sucks. It sucks. It sucks. It's stupid to me. I don't care. Nobody cares

as long as your end product is good. Yeah. That's all it matters. Yeah. If you're doing shit legally, you're treating people the right way no matter their skin color, no matter their fucking gender, no matter their sexuality, nobody gives a shit. Most Americans don't give a shit about that stuff. Yeah. And you're shoving it down our throats. Just do a good job. Yeah. We just want good products and good service done by good people. And the companies that employ those people, treat them right.

Yeah. And all I can say is whatever business you're in, and if you're somebody in agriculture, whether you're raising blueberries or hogs or corn, you've got to tell your story, build your brand. Now, it doesn't have to be, I mean, it doesn't have to be. to the length is what we've tried to do in, you know, everything we do. But the more that you can tell your own story and have that out there that anybody can see what your values are, what you do, why you do what you do, the more it strengthens your ability to kind of hold your own desk.

Yeah, and let's play this out. So you do, you start doing that. You start building interest on your blueberry business. You could go the direct-to-s consumer route, although we had Shay Myers on here, and it sounds like it's fucking tough in the produce business to go direct-to-consumer. And I don't mean just, like, put it in a box and ship it to people. I mean, like, I don't know. It's just tough to go that route, is what I heard.

Yeah, it perishes pretty fast. Yeah, it perishes pretty quick. And so I bet it's pretty tough to do that. But what it could do if you building your own brand is maybe you find other opportunities with different box stores because you, you know, you know, you can be you, you you have told your story and they don't give a shit about the DEI shit. They just care about your story that you're telling. And so your connection to the consumer. Yeah, you can tell the other fuckers to kick rocks and say, I'm going this route because these guys value me and what we do. Not all other

bullshit. More than your claims. Yeah, more than your claims and what you're trying to make me do. You don't appreciate our product. You just want to tell us what to do. So we're going to go with the people that support us for us. So it just gives you leverage for more opportunities. opportunities. And that's the biggest thing that we found with what we do. I mean, like the money that we've made from social media, yeah, that's cool, right? That's awesome. But I would argue that the opportunity and the connections and the people that you meet because of you telling your story is way more valuable and way more worth it than the money you can make from social media. A hundred percent. That is hands down the best thing you can do

as a farming operation, as a business, whatever. I mean, the opportunities are endless, and it's only going to help you. Options never hurt. Yep. Options never hurt. It's the Family and Friends event at Shoppers Drug Mart. Get 20% off almost all regular-priced merchandise.

Two days only. Tuesday, April 28th, and Wednesday, April 29th. Open your PC optimum app to get your coupon. I should ask you this, but you have good. Go ahead. I'll let you go. Noah asks, now this is more philosophical. This is kind of deep. This is a short question, but it's a deep one. You ready? I am. It's your asshole pucker? I'm short and deep. Noah asks, what makes you feel most alive? Yep. I have something that came in my head right away.

I was scared to put this on there because I didn't know. I have one. that's, I already know. Every man and, well, there's probably some women that can relate to it too, but I won't say it, we're all thinking it. And if you're young and don't know, you can just think about something else. Yeah. Do you want me to answer?

You just want to run with that. Go ahead. You just want to run with that. Go ahead. I started out by saying, like, I started out by giving examples of stuff that, you know, like, the first, like when you first the first seeds you plant in the spring, you know, the first day that it's fit, that you could go, first day of harvest, you know, when the barns are all cleaned out, washed, and they're ready to refill,

and you're putting the first pigs in there, basically, and then I thought about it, and I'm like, no, you know what makes me, like, makes me feel the most alive is any time that I feel like, we have really taken a step forward, whatever that is. Whatever, and sometimes you just don't really see it coming. But, okay, I'll give you one great example. One great example was when you built your building and Dennis was here pouring the floor and the first day, you know, the hole was dug,

that first day we poured that whole floor. And we went out for dinner that night. and I said because, you know, most days in life are common, but every once in a while there's a day that everything from that day on changes different. And for you, and for me too, I remember when I built my first shed, like that is a step where, okay, you're not going back because there's 350 yards of concrete laying in this hole, but it's also like it changes the trajectory of what you're doing.

Mm-hmm. So those are the days that... Fill you up. Yeah, fill me up. Make you alive. That's a lot more... That's a lot better than your answer. Yeah.

Well, I'm not going to say... You guys can... I didn't say nothing. You guys can figure out what that is. It's primal. We'll just say that. But I won't go any further on it. I would say...

I would second the... The feeling of progress gets my... Makes me feel alive. When you solve a problem, that you didn't know you'd solve and you solve it and it works. If you come up with an idea and you go after and it works, if, you know, just progress is exciting. Seeing progress, whether it, and then it's like you can see it in your own personal life.

Progress in when you go to the gym and you change your physique and you see the results in the mirror, that's exciting. That's, that makes you feel alive. So I would, I would definitely, and I say taking risks, you know, taking risks and doing shit that, you know, isn't the most common thing to do, that makes you feel alive. I mean, we all experience it when you're in high school. I mean, going and doing something that you might not, you're not supposed to do, but you do it anyway, that gives you a rush. It does. It gives you a rush. And I'm not saying you do that as an adult, like, you know,

you don't want to break the law, but I'm just saying when you go, you know, when you start a business and you're shit in your pants and it's stressful, but, you know, the business starts to work and it's working and that makes you feel alive you know um i would also say there's just little like he he kind of worded this like what what makes you feel alive during your week like you're just your life like what makes you feel live and so those are kind of the big things for me but there are some simple things that make me feel live i've already touched on one of them i won't go down that one either any further but another thing is like a good fucking meal i love food i love food And when I eat a food and it's a meal where I'm like blown away and like that shit was

frickin' fire, I feel life. And there's not a, there's probably people that don't be like, food just doesn't do that to me. It does to me. When it's a good, when it's good food and you're having a good conversation with somebody around a meal, that's awesome. That makes me feel life. Great conversation. Great night light, great night of conversations with people.

That makes you feel alive. Deep, meaningful conversations. Um, going and doing stuff for the first time, that's always makes you feel alive. Um, good workout. That always makes me feel alive too. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. But yeah, I, I think most days, you don't, you don't feel like super, I don't want to say alive, you know, but you don't feel amped. Right. But that's just part of the process. That's, that is the grind. That is discipline. That is what separates winter. from losers is they just do the shit that they need to do anyway despite feeling alive or not. Yep. So I don't think it's good to not ever feel alive, but just know it's not going to, you're not always going to feel alive.

Right. All the time. Yep. And that's not necessarily a bad thing. No, because I think some people, they seek that out and they seek that thrill all the time. Or they, I don't know. they might seek feeling alive over setting their life up and they go live in a van and they go travel the country in their 20s and then they wake up and then they have to go work at McDonald's

because they got no qualifications and they prioritize feeling alive over setting your life up and I think there's a balance there that can be had but you got to go through the suck a little bit yeah it's kind of part of being an adult balance balance yep about balance it is so finding finding ways to feel alive with the little things, I think it's important. Yep, absolutely. Shooting this fucking podcast, I feel alive right now. Well, I mean, I will say that some of the best conversations that I think I've ever had. Doing a podcast with Rhonda Santis made me feel alive.

I was shit in my pants a little bit. Yep. Right. That was. Well, right. I mean, it is. That was a moment. That was a big moment.

I don't feel like it's always the calm moments. that make you feel alive. Right. It's the shit when you're like, oh, boy. Yeah, we better not screw this up. Yeah, better get my questions out. Hope he doesn't fall down the stairs. Yeah.

Yeah. Okay. It's part of the human experience. Yeah, that's feeling those emotions. Absolutely right. Hey, thanks for sticking with us. If you haven't heard of BioCal yet, it's time you do. BioCal from Midwestern BioAgg is a soil amendment

that makes your applied nutrients more available to your crop. Paring manure with BioCal with bio cow is really a no-brainer. More nutrients will be available in the first year while reducing compaction and improving soil health over the long term. We have used bio cow on our farm for like 12 years. I think this year will be 13 years and we put it on every acre that's going to corn. In fact, this year it may go on every acre because we may plant corn on corn on everything. Our soils, our crops have gotten better over that time and keep getting. better. Through the drought last year, through all the water this year, we've seen a difference in

the health for crops, and you can feel the difference when you walk across our fields. We're not the only ones. Top producers in our area have seen the benefits of this year after year. To learn more, contact BioAG now for prepaid discounts at 1-800-3276012 to order your fall application. You can also go to MidwesternBioag.com. That number again is 1-800-327.com. 76012. Give those guys a call. Now let's get back to it. Okay, one last question. This is a hot topic. I mean, two hot topics, really, but Lane sent this message to me and I just felt like I got to give it. I got to give it the context. So start with nitrogen. With the Koch brothers buying the Iowa fertilizer plant, it only makes the nitrogen competition market that much smaller. However, there's

still about 10 companies in the United States that are making nitrogen fertilizer. The nitrogen market may be getting close, but it's not yet a monopoly and still has plenty of competition. The three largest would be CF Industries, Coke, and nitrogen. And, you know, nitrogen, a lot of people don't know this, but, you know, they're in the, they're in the fertilizer business at the wholesale level, but then they also have their own retail outlets. So, I mean, that, it's, that thing's a monster. But something that people might not be aware of is these countervailing, and I think I'm saying that, right, countervailing duties put in place on phosphate fertilizers. So in June of 2020, most, Osake filed a countervailing duty that the U.S. government passed, putting a tariff on phosphate

fertilizer imported from Russia and Morocco. This keeps phosphate fertilizer supply domestic and puts strains on imports because there's a duty on it. And at first, this sounds like a good idea because it keeps phosphate fertilizer production American and slows down import. However, the two largest fertilizer companies in that market, Mosaic and Simplot, I think I'm saying that right, took this and ran with it with price gouges. And now this, you know, this is, this is Lane's words, price gouging as they now have a monopoly. It's believed that because of this duty, phosphate fertilizers like MAP and DAP are about $100 to $150 a ton higher than what the market would be if the duties weren't in place.

And it's not the stockholders, policymakers, or mosaic that are taking in, taking it in the rear, but the American farmer, and it's sickening. And so I didn't understand, like,

where this whole deal was at. So I did some dicking, or did some digging around on it. Whoa, slow down. Yeah. Pause. Pause. Pause.

Pause. Oh. Get your head out of the gutter. Where's the rewind? Yeah. So I did some digging on this. And so I'm not 100% sure. So yeah, this was based on pricing in 2020.

And this actually went kind of through the government. somewhere around 2022, and it's still not, like it's still not settled, whether these duties are going to stay intact or whether they've even been, whether they've paid the duties on what they already, what's already been imported. I don't quite understand how that works. But I will tell you this, and I, and I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I feel, a lot better knowing what I know now, but the reason for this was because if you are a phosphate

manufacturer in Russia, you do not have OSHA, you do not have the Department of the Interior, you do not have a workman's comp, you don't have the EPA, you don't have the EPA, you you have none of that. And they literally, their cost of production is so much below what, let's just say, for Mosaic, because Mosaic, I know a little bit about their operation that most of their phosphate, they do business in Florida. And it takes somewhere around, like, it takes almost a decade. If they find a place that they're going to mine phosphate,

to develop a mine down there probably takes around 10 years. And as you can imagine, the amount of money they have to invest to do that is it's a chunk. And so the competition, they're really not on the same level as somebody that, is selling from a foreign country like Russia. And on the environmental side, the way they produce that phosphate, they strip mine that, who? The foreign entities, like in Russia.

So my understanding is they strip mine that, and what they think they can sell, they transport that to the coast, wherever they're going to offload it, and they're trying to sell it. And I think it's basically stored, either it's stored outside or it's stored where the storage isn't very good. And what they don't, what they don't export,

they just push it in the ocean. Like they just get rid of it. And there's no, you know, there's no regulation on it. And so the gap, cost-wise, cost of production-wise, between what we're getting overseas versus what's produced in North America was so great that basically Mosaic just said, you know, either you got to do this to level the playing field or we're going to be out of business. And something else a lot of people don't know is Mosaic hasn't really been in existence all that long. I can't remember when it was formed,

but Mosaic was part of Cargill. And what happened there was basically Cargill had a member of the family. And I back up, this is what I've heard anyway. So take it for what it's worth. But they had a family member that had a shitload of Cargill stock that decided they wanted to sell it. And they needed the money. And Cargill's private. And so to make that all work, they decided to spin,

out their phosphate business and that's how mosaic was created. And so it became a standalone company, but it hasn't always been that way. And so now then they're competing basically on selling this product. And I mean, I buy it. I have to buy fertilizer. You know, we're lucky in the fact that We've got hog manure that helps us a lot with nitrogen, but we're still buying commercial fertilizer for phosphorus and potash. And the higher these corn yields have been, the faster we deplete that to where we're buying more commercial fertilizer than what we have in the past. So I hear you, but I think as a country and as farmers, We really got to decide, what do you want? Do you want, if this is not, like if this is an uphill, if they're allowed, if the market is allowed to run on whoever's got the cheapest price, that's who's going to get the business. And they can bring it into the country, no tariff. Then you're going to lose that.

Domestic. you're going to lose that domestic production. And I'm not saying, I mean, maybe people are like, screw it, you know, it ain't worth having. Okay, that's fine. But then you're dependent. You are 100% dependent on the world working the way we all hope that it will. Not having it. It's something else here now.

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I haven't any control. Yep, and it's out of your control. Yeah, it's just one of those things. It's like, farmers bishing about it. But we do it to ourselves kind of deal. We all go for what's the cheapest. And it's like the food thing at the grocery store. Consumers want cheap protein. They want cheap meat, but they're also worried about grocery store meat and the quality.

Yeah, they all want to hate Smithfield or JBS or whoever, but then they want to buy the cheap. But they go to the grocery store and they buy the cheapest shit they can get because it's cheap. Can't have both ways. No. Yeah. And if the only way Mosaic stays in business is if they can put this tariff on, right? I mean, because they have so much regulation. And so that's hurting the smaller guys.

That's hurting the smaller plants or smaller domestic producers. But is it better than having zero domestic producers? Yeah. Is it, you know, I don't know. I mean, that's the question you got to ask yourself. It's big business almost seems inevitable. like you can't you can't hate on mosaic for doing what they're doing because if they don't do it they're going to lose they're not going to be able to to do do that they're not going to

they won't be in business they won't be in business or that side you know that's that's the reality and so do you blame them for that yeah it's not i mean it's it's a really tough and i'm not i mean i'm not i don't got i don't have a horse in the game i don't either so it's like it's just this that's what you got to ask yourself because it's not as like it's not it's not yeah it's not as cut dry it never is there's always two sides the story there's always more than meets the i yeah and i'm not saying that's right but that's the other side of it is it's not it is they didn't go after that like oh let's really let's fuck every let's fuck every domestic uh let's let's fuck the farmers yeah make it to where we can just charge what

we want. Yeah. I mean, I'm sure they want to make money, but they also want to stay in business. But to go back, let's go back to that fertilizer plant. Because this is near and dear to a lot of people's hearts here in Iowa is, I don't even know how many years ago this plant got built, but there was an independent fertilizer plant that was built, nitrogen plant that was built down by the river, down by the Mississippi River. And it was funded. They got a, whole bunch of money from the state of Iowa, and it was one of the only independent manufacturers of nitrogen fertilizer in the United States. And they got it going, got a bunch of tax breaks for it, and then it was just recently announced. They're selling it to the Coke brothers. And people are

pissed off, and most of what I've seen is they're all pissed off the Coke brothers. Oh, them dirty motherfuckers. And my whole thing is, if you want to be pissed at somebody, why don't you get pissed at the state of Iowa? Because they're the ones that loaned them the money and apparently didn't think it through to say, okay, we'll give you this money or we'll give you this tax breaks. But if we're going to do it, you can't turn around and dump the son of a bitch. And then the other thing is, you should be pissed at the people that put this deal to because anybody that knows anything about the fertilizer business, because we're just talking about how the margins are terrible, if it was easy, there'd be a bunch of people doing it. And the reason

that the industry is consolidated is because traditionally the margins on it is terrible. There are times that they make a lot of money. There's years the margins are good, but there's plenty of years where the margin is terrible. And these guys put this deal together. They built this plant, and then apparently they were like shit this is this is fucking hard well it's either it's either they went they got offered the money

and just took it because they wanted to quick payback or well i guess who knows yeah either way yeah they shouldn't they should if they really wanted to build that for the reason that they said that they built it they shouldn't have sold it yeah they shouldn't have allowed the state of Iowa should have said, okay, but you can't sell it.

Like, you can't not sell it out if that's the purpose of what you're building it for. But who knew, who knows if that was their plan all along was to build this, make it take so much of the market share and then sell it and then pay back, pay back the shareholders. The shareholders are the people that were in the government that helped get this deal across or, you know, fuck, who knows. Put the rest in their pocket. Exactly.

So, and I don't give a shit about the Koch brothers, but it's the same thing as... But they're the enemy. Right. So I will guarantee you, part of the reason that their name is so prominent within this is because they are big political donors. That family is given a lot of money

predominantly to the Republican Party. So that instantly makes them evil capitalists. But you know what? They didn't get to be who they are. without consolidation. And we can sit here and argue about their business practices. And I'll be honest, I don't really fucking know. You know, they could be the most shrewd, cut, throat, whatever.

But you know what I found out? Businesses like this, every person in it that is in it is cut, throat, and shrewd as hell. So whether you're talking about anything to do with food production, the margins are terrible. So when we talk about pork production, beef production, the ADMs of the world, the Cargills of the world, the Coke brothers, Mosaic, whoever, to be in those businesses, you have to be ruthless about cost because you are producing a commodity and you do not control the price on that as much as we'd all like to think that,

oh, they have this percentage of the market. Well, they really don't because if they inflate that, cost to the final producer too much, guess what? Somebody else is going to see, oh, there's margin in that, and they're going to get into it. So, I don't know. So the nitrogen thing, I just think that there's plenty of blame to go around on that, but I don't think it all falls on the company that was buying that plant. And on the, on the, on the, on the mosaic thing, I don't don't know. I think you said it best. It's, there's two sides of the story and can you blame them for doing what they're doing? Yeah, I can't because they're trying to compete and who they're competing

against has a different playing field. Totally different playing field. So to their advantage. Yeah. So, I mean, it's really up to the American people to decide. It's up to the farmers to side. It's up to the government to decide for the people. Is it worth it to have an American source for phosphorus? Or should we just say, we're going to get it all overseas? I mean, it's like there's so many chemicals and drugs and antibiotics in the medical field. 100% come from China. 100%. I don't know. Is that something that you want to depend on a hundred? 100% to some country like that? Well, I don't think it is, but are we willing to pay a penny more for ibuprofen or whatever the hell it is? I don't know. Those are the questions that as we

move through this world of free trade agreements going away and globalization kind of falling apart and you're going to hear the phrase reshoring a lot. You've probably already heard of a lot. But more and more of these companies are real. that the supply chain of getting shit from all over the world and only having enough supply for this week, you know, and get it just in time and all that, that all really fell apart during COVID. And since then, more and more and more companies are making the decision that they want their supply chain closer to home. And they're willing to pay a little more for that, for that security.

And so as farmers, I think we have to decide, I don't know, are you willing to pay a little more for that security? And, I mean, can you afford? Can you afford to pay more? And this year, not a good answer. It's probably hard to answer that with say, yeah. But in the long run, I don't know. But it's tough.

It is tough. It's talked that in a big circle. So I don't think I gave you a good answer, but it's kind of a mess. That's a messy one. Shit's fucked, Rick. shit is fucked Rick that's right

we need to put that home we just need to have that god the t-shirt the t-shirt opportunities out there I was working on the website today because you've been on my ass yeah I have we gotta get that done I have so many ideas

dad's fiendin for to get some merch out and I just want to make sure we're doing it right so I'm I'm making sure we cross our T's and our eyes and I I came up with a t-shirt idea just last night.

I was listening to some Danzig. You ever heard that song by Danzig's mother? No. I wanted to adapt that to a barn talk t-shirt. Just have it say, this is the podcast that your mother told you about because the lyric of that is, Mother, don't let your children listen to me

or walk my way or walk my path. It's like, Mother told you, this is the podcast Mother told you to stay away from. I think that's a bad thing. I think it might work for people your age, but honestly, I had no idea. Well, you need to download that. Check that out. What is it?

Carl Danzig. What, uh, mother is the name of the song. What time frame, what time period, 80s? Oh, no, that's like late 90s, I think, early 2000s, maybe. Late 90s, really 2000s, okay. Good stuff. All right. I'll have to check it out.

I'm diverse. Yeah, diverse. You're getting there. I don't listen to your gangster rap, but other, that. It's not gangster rap. Gets the people going. All right. We're going to wrap it up, guys. We appreciate all your guys' support. We hope you got some value. Hope we made you laugh a little. Hope

you related to us on something. Hope you might have learned something. If you did, we just asked that you share it. Leave a review on Spotify or Apple. Check out Farmergrade.com. Use code barn talk to save 10% off your next order. Subscribe to the YouTube channel. And we'll see you guys back here next week for another episode.