Barn Talk - Reclaiming Independence As An Artist & Country Music Industry Dark Secrets w/Clare Dunn

Episode Date: September 26, 2022

Welcome to Barn Talk. This one has been in the works for a while and we’re pretty excited. Our only musical talent is being quiet during church hymns so as to not ruin others' spiritual experience! Our guest today however has talent in spades! Having opened for the likes of Florida Georgia Line, Keith Urban and Bob Seger! She is currently on route to start a new tour promoting her latest album. We are so thankful to have her in the barn today to share her story with all of you! Clare Dunn welcome to Barn Talk! Go Support Clare! 👇 https://solo.to/claredunn Barn Talk Merch! 👇 https://www.thislldo.co/ SUBSCRIBE TO THE PODCAST ➱ https://bit.ly/3a7r3nR SUBSCRIBE TO THIS’LL DO FARM ➱ https://bit.ly/2X8g45c SUBSCRIBE TO BARN TALK CLIPS ➱ https://bit.ly/3BlZnqq LISTEN ON: SPOTIFY ➱ https://open.spotify.com/show/3icVr4KWq4eUDl7Oy60YMY ITUNES ➱ https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/barn-talk/id1574395049 Follow Behind The Scenes👇 ● This’ll Do Farm Instagram ➱ https://bit.ly/30KPBNk ● Barn Talk TikTok ➱ https://bit.ly/3qciekS ● Sawyer’s Instagram  ➱ https://bit.ly/3BtX0n4 ● Tork’s Instagram ➱ https://bit.ly/3LGZJxS ------------------------------- ***PLEASE NOTE*** Barn Talk is a significant break from the typical content viewers have come to expect from This’ll Do Farm. Please be advised that we will be exploring a wide variety of topics (some adult-themed) and our younger viewers (and their parents) should be advised that some topics will be for mature audiences only. ⚠NO FINANCIAL ADVICE / DISCLAIMER⚠ The Information discussed and shared on Barn Talk is provided for educational, informational, and entertainment purposes only, without any express or implied warranty of any kind, including warranties of accuracy, completeness, or success for any particular purpose. The Information contained in or provided from or through this podcast is not intended to be and does not constitute financial advice, investment advice, trading advice, or any other advice. The Information on this podcast and provided from or through our content is general in nature and is not specific to you, the user or anyone else. You should not make any decision, financial, investment, trading or otherwise, based on any of the information presented on this podcast without undertaking independent due diligence and consultation with a professional, professional broker or financial advisory. Understand that you are using any and all Information available on or through this website at your own risk. RISK STATEMENT– The trading of Bitcoins, alternative cryptocurrencies, NFTs, individual stocks, etc. has potential rewards, and it also has potential risks involved. Trading may not be suitable for all people. Anyone wishing to invest should seek his or her own independent financial or professional advice. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I got the poor. When you look at the world ahead of you, like what are you striving for? What drives you now? Well, my freedom and independence as a human being coming out of that belly of the beast, you know, that's the other thing. I think that the toll all that can take on you

just as a person. It's a miserable existence when the puppet masters when you know that the puppet masters are going to do what they're going to do and it's not going to be what's good for you. You know, that's a personal toll. And so I'm free of that. And I get to be free as an artist.

And where I'm headed is back to where I kind of started with Bob, the arenas. You know, we have the, I have a great group around me. We have the talent to get there. We have the ability to get there. It's just going and taking it one step out of time. And that's really what we're all about on what we're doing here is we're going back to the farm and then getting back to the arenas. And that's really where it's headed, I guess. All of the food we eat and much of the clothing we wear comes from plants and animals that are raised on farms.

Farms are different in type, in size, and even in name. Welcome to Barn Talk. I don't really know, I really don't know what to say, which is kind of unusual, but I'm really excited. This is going to be a little bit of a different show today because we've got somebody here with actual musical talent, which is something I don't know anything about. My only musical talent is that I know how to be quiet at church so as to not ruin somebody else's spiritual experience. but the person we got here today has Talon Spades and they they've opened for Florida Georgia Line Keith Urban and Bob Seeger and we're definitely going to talk about that because Bob Seeger that's right up my alley so it's going to be a good one folks and I am I'm really pumped I'm fired up as well it's a different it's a different guest on it's a different guest that we haven't had on ever before so it's we're opening up to new industries we're broaden our horizons that was the beautiful idea with barn talk is yeah we're mostly

farm and ag base which this guest today has a little bit of that in her blood but um we can kind of jump between industries because we're not called we're not beholden to anybody yeah we're not behold to anybody we're called barn talk so whatever we want to have in the barn we can have in the barn but Before we get into this amazing episode, you guys know the drill, pay the fee. If you get any value from the show, you learn something, you're related to anybody, related to one of us on, we're related to one of our guests on. Share the show. Share it out with your friends, family, coworkers, employees, whoever.

It's kind of the ticket to admission to watch or listen to the show. Also, leave a review on Spotify, Apple. It all helps us out a ton, and we appreciate every single one of you that have been doing that. And without further ado, let's get into it. Claire Dunn, welcome to Barntop. Thank you. Thanks for having me. Pleasure to have you. Oh man, it's my thrill. It's been kind of a world win, though. You've been from South Dakota yesterday. Yeah. You're going to go to Kansas maybe tomorrow. Is that the deal? You guys going somewhere else? Yeah, we play a show tomorrow night in just north of Kansas City up in Atchison. So we, yeah, it's been a bit of a, I mean, but we're kind of used to it. This is just kind of daily life, you know. It may look whirlwindy to other people, but for us, we're just like, we're just like, me. You just don't know any better. It's like being Amish. You don't know any better.

I saw your clip about Amish carpentry. I know. I could beat up on them because none of them have YouTube. So it's okay. That is true. I love it. That is true. What they don't know doesn't hurt.

That's right. That's right. Okay. So you've got a new album coming out. Yeah. And you're out and about leading up to that, getting it rolling. So tell us about the album.

So it's like nothing I've really ever done before. I've been in Nashville for the past decade, and I've been through the whole gamut, you know, had the biggest record deal, had the biggest bonus when I signed. The whole deal was on the biggest country label in the world. And, you know, I was raised on a farm and ranch, and I was taught about, you know, being an out-of-the-box thinker. we were raised, that's how you got to be an ag. I learned what true freedom really was.

And as soon as the day I signed my record deal, I like had this terrible, it's a whole other story, but I had this terrible gut feeling. And so long story short, my freedom as an artist to be who I am and who I believe God created me to be and what I was meant to do, it was all stripped away.

And so when 2020 hit and the world stopped, it was a great opportunity for me because I got to take my freedom back. And so I've sort of taken my time, figured out exactly really what I want to do, and I've decided to release this project independently. I've had some offers to go work with some other groups, and I'm very grateful for that, but it was just important to me to do this independently. And so I'm recording songs that have always meant something to me, and by artists who have always meant something to me

and who were the people who really inspired me to begin with. So it's sort of a long way around back to my roots and my freedom as an artist. And also, too, just through 2020, I've gotten to spend more time on the farm and ranch, which I've longed for for years. And then I get to come see you guys on your farm. So it's really just like, you know,

the best of both worlds for me. So first single comes out October 7th, and then we're dropping singles later this fall, and then we'll put the whole project out at the top of 23. What's the name of it? I'm calling it, this is really a funny story, and you know, you'd have to kind of get to know me to really understand the funniness of it, but we're calling it greatest hits. Okay, perfect. Even though I, you know, none of these are my songs, and we kind of just did that, you know,

a little tongue in cheek. No, that's good. No, that, yeah. Okay, so let's back up a little bit. Oh, yeah. So you born and raised in eastern Colorado. Yeah, two butes, Colorado. Yep.

Okay. Tiny town. Tiny town. How tiny is it? Oh, I always say that it's like 43 people at Christmas and the rest of the time, you know, maybe 30 somewhere in there. It's really, it's sad. You know, ag has been hit.

We're completely ag-based. We're very rural. Like, you guys have way more civilization here, and I love that. But we've, you know, we're losing all our little small towns out where we are. And Two Butts, unfortunately, is drying up. We still have a post office and a little library, but we used to have a country store. My mom, you know, was great at learning or teaching us work ethic. We'd go in there and wash dishes for free and stuff like that.

But, yeah, that's Two Butts. what's left of it. Where can people find you before we get right down the rabbit hole? Yes. Social media, all that stuff. Please. So I'm on TikTok. And Instagram and Facebook and everywhere.

It's all at Claire Dunn music. I'm on Getter. I just joined that platform. And so C-L-A-R-E, D-U-N-N music. And then I'm also on Spotify. Like, even though I'm releasing a covers project, I have boatloads of my own music. I write my own songs.

I produce my own record. so I'm on Spotify, iTunes. You can order a CD off my website, Clairedone.com. YouTube. YouTube. Yeah, everywhere. Yeah, great. Go follow her.

Go follow her, go check her out. You got an amazing voice, by the way. You listen to it before you came and show my girlfriend. She's like, wow, she's got a beautiful voice. So you all need to go check it out because it is really good. Yeah, I've got an older brother that has a really good, he has a really good voice. and then my oldest brother was musically inclined. That's awesome. What do you play?

He played trombone, and he actually did drum and bugle core all through college. He was in the what, the troopers from Casper, Wyoming. That's awesome. Yeah, he was all about it. I, however, so my story of music is, like every kid, you know, you got to fifth grade and they bring out the instruments and all the kids like, oh, I want to be in band, I want to be in band. and so I was in the band and fifth grade, sixth grade, and went to junior high, and I'll never forget the first, you know, like two weeks of school,

every kid met with a band director and you had like tryouts. They put you what, you know, if you were first chair, second chair or whatever. And my junior high band teacher, I played trombone, hand me down for my older brother. And so I got done doing my addition and my band director just looked at me, And he goes, you're just doing this because your mom wants you to be in band, right? And I looked at him and I go, uh-huh. And he's like, he patted me on the back.

He goes, I'll go call her right now. That was the end of my musical career. It was just at church from there on, you know, from there on out. At church, that's where you get it out. Yeah, I get it all out there. Well, not really. I'm quiet at church because I don't want to hurt anybody else's. Just eardrums?

Yeah. Experience. Yeah. But so Nashville is a long ways from Colorado. Yeah. So how did that journey start? Like growing up, working cattle and you grow weed out there. Yeah.

Okay. So how did you get the fire and how did that progress into where we're at today? Oh, man. Well, I think, you know, I've been singing basically since I could talk. I mean, you could ask my sister much to her chagrin. You know, she had to put up with me. But I really remember when I was like around six or so because I was always singing and dancing

and running around the house. And my poor mom, I think, was trying to help. That was her big goal, was to help me and my sister figure out, she wanted to figure out who we are, what our dreams were, and she wanted to figure out how to help us the best way she could for whatever we each wanted to do. It's parenting 101. That's amazing.

That sounds like an amazing lady right there. We don't deserve my mom. And so she, you know, was just trying to help this wild kid that was running around with lipstick and, you know, cowboy boots all the time. And the same one outfit that I insisted I had to wear every day and just driving her nuts. And so anyway, so she just said to me, she goes, do you think you would like to sing? I said, I guess I said, yeah. and there was a local

reproduction of he-haw. There was in Boy City, Oklahoma, there was a bunch of farmers and ranchers that would get together every year and they could, you know, kind of pick and play. And, you know, everyone who could sing would come in. And they put on their own he-ha show, complete with a Grandpa Jones, you know, a mini-purple,

the, you know, props and sets and the whole deal. And it was so cool. So I sang a George Strait song there. I sang a Heartland. Okay. And I just remember being on stage. And I remember how fun that was for me and how much I love to sing. And the people seemed to be happy, you know, in the crowd.

And I really remember being a little girl. And I walked off the stage and I said, Mom, can I do that again? And I think that was really the first moment for me. And then it's just been a passion. And so, you know, we don't have guitar lessons out. where we are. We don't have, you know, any real, like, professional-type way to pursue music. So it's just sing where you can. And then college was really my shot. You know, I played sports all through high school and all that stuff and got to soak up, you know, just being a kid. And when I

went to college, that was really where I was just like, okay, I'm going to see if I can do this. And so long story short, I moved to Nashville. And boy, it's just been running and gunning ever since, you know. And that's really kind of how it started. It's just a passion. And I, you know, I never really thought about seriously doing anything else except ag. I've always known I wanted to be involved in my parents' operation whenever they decide to kind of slow down from it. But that's, yeah, that's really kind of, it's just always been part of who I am.

and I never really have known anything else. Seems like it was a gift from the time you were born. Six years old, you just knew. You just had it in you, you know? It's like God wanted you to do it. Man, I sure think so, because I certainly can't take any credit for anything that he's given me. That's him, you know, and I do feel like he's given me a gift. And I think, you know, especially now, after having been through all this stuff in Nashville that I've been through

and lived in that belly of the beast, I feel more of a responsibility than ever. to do something with that gift the way I feel he intended me to do it. So long way around. Yeah. Do you have any funny farm stories or any good farm stories that you can think of at the top of your head? I don't want to put you on the spot, but you got anything that comes in mind first thing? You think about the farm like, what's that story? Oh, man, I don't know where to start.

Anytime we do anything together as a family, there's always, some sort of comedic thing that happens. The last thing I can think of, so we were out, my mom, dad, and I, we were out trying to, we had a kef we were trying to catch. And I don't remember what we were trying to do, check it for being sick or something or give it a shot. I don't remember. But so I'm learning to rope, but none of us are proficient ropers. So we have to learn to, you know, catch cattle in unique ways, mostly to our detriment, you know. Yep. So I was on the four-wheeler, and this keff was a little bigger than what I'm used to.

I've kind of perfected this thing of, like, driving along and catching the keff, you know, kind of single-handedly. Well, it works with a certain size of kef at a certain speed. Well, I overjudged all of those things. The kef was way bigger than I thought. I reached out to grab it. I had a hold of it, and I don't know if I had too good of a hold or what exactly happened. It was all so fast, but that keff jerked me off the four-wheeler.

Before I knew it, like, I'm holding, it was like such a movie. I'm like holding on to the back leg or the tail or something. The keff drugged me off. I, like, bounce off the ground, you know, and then, like, my jaw is still messed up from it. And then the thing that made me the most mad is the kef got away. And if I had caught him, I thought, you know, it would have been worth it. I mean, just stuff like that. Yeah.

It doesn't feel funny at the time, but looking back. Looking back, it's always a good time. So did your dad, did your dad come up and find out if you were okay or not and then chew you out for not keep the calf? Or did he just drive right by you? You good? All right. I'm going to forget him. Because that's exactly what my dad would have done is he's first instinct was, are you okay?

And then if you're okay, then he's going to chew your ass for not catching the calf. Yeah, yeah. No, he was, I think I hit so hard. He knew like, oh, e-out. You know, so he was like, I'm going to let this one slide. Yeah, yeah, totally. My dad's a big teddy bear, though, too. Anytime like, you know, anything would happen to us, girls grown up, he was always the, when something, you know, when we get hurt, he was always just like the biggest teddy bear about it. So he's, he's a soft eat. He's just like me. Oh, yeah. I don't know if I'd go that far. I don't know if I'd go that far. Okay, well, I'm very intrigued because when I was reading up on you,

one of the things that I saw was that you've opened for a lot of different people, but one of the people that you opened for, because I'm old, is Bob Seeger. Yeah. And I'm a big Bob Seeger fan. How did that come about? Oh, man. that was a really crazy story. So this was before I ever signed my record deal.

I kind of think about my career in terms of like, there was my career before the Bob Seeger tour. Okay. There was my career during it. Pivotal moment. Oh, hugely pivotal moment. I wish I could go back and do it differently. Or maybe I don't.

But there was like before Bob Seeger and after Bob Seeger. And it's so funny how that's all worked out. you think somebody plans this. So I was in Nashville. I had a booking agent at the time, but I didn't have a record deal, totally independent. So, you know,

anyway, it was crazy. My agent called me, and he was like, hey, Bob Seeger is looking for a country act. And I was like, well, I know of one, you know? So I just bugged the crap out of him. and I just was like,

you got to tell Bob that like, I know every single one of his songs. You got to tell Bob that like, I used to drive the tractor, listening to night moves, you know, this, this and that. And I just bugged him until he got me one offer

to go open for Bob on the ride-out tour. I believe it was the first show of the tour and it was in Saginaw, Michigan in November. And so I had a church van and a trailer at the time. me and the boys we loaded up

I was worried that I would need four-wheel drive you know to get there because it was snowing we made it we sound checked and like our sound check we had like 30 minutes I mean it was fast and furious and I see this guy we're sound checking a song and I see this guy

with white hair walk out from side stage and go kind of mills around in the bottom of the arena We were playing this huge arena. And I was like, no. I was like, don't mess up, Claire. Remember your words?

No, there's no way that's him. It was Bob. Bob came out and watched a sound check. And so I'm a nervous wreck. You know, we get through our sound check and we walk offstage. Nothing's really said. Play the show later that night. I walk off stage after the show, Bob's manager and, like, the head liaison from like LiveNation,

which was the company putting on the tour. They both came to me and they're like, well, Bob watched your sound check and we watched your show and what are you doing for the next couple months? I was like, nothing. And they were like, you know, Bob would like to know if you'd like to come out on tour. And I think I cried.

I don't remember. I know my jaw was on the ground. And that's really how it happened. And he was so. kind to me. I mean, I've been very fortunate. I've got to open for a lot of people and not saying anything bad about anybody else, but I don't know that anybody else has been so welcoming and kind as Bob. Like, knew my name. The first show we played with him after that, he saw me walking in the hallway and I was just like, don't make eye contact, just keep walking forward. And I don't know why I thought

that. But he was like, hi, Claire. And came over and gave me a big hug. And I was just like, you know, I couldn't even process it. would try to talk to me about the weather. And I was like, I should be able to have this conversation. I grew up with my dad, you know. But it was a really amazing experience. And just I'll never forget any of that stuff. Yeah.

So that turned into like how long, how long was that? It was. We played our last show, I believe, sometime in either late March or late April. And so it was all winter. Yeah. And we played Nashville for our last show. Oh, perfect. And we got a standing ovation.

That's a hard thing to do in Nashville because everybody's like, they call it the Nashville stair. Yep. It was like, show us what you got, man. Because half the people that are there are all trying to get their own record deal. Totally. Or they've got it. You know, it's your peers.

And anyway. So it was a lot of fun. Yep. Several months, four, four or five months, somewhere in there. And I signed my record deal. like right at the beginning of that tour. Oh, really? Yeah.

Like, we'd played the first show. We might have played two shows. I can't remember. And then I went and signed my record deal. And it was so funny. Like, I remember, like, my parents flew out. You know, I was like, Mom and Dad, you want to come watch me sign my record deal?

And, of course, they were just, like, so proud. And my sister, and everybody was there. And we walked into the building, and we signed, I signed that deal. and I remember the whole time feeling so guilty that I was like, this doesn't feel like the right thing to do. But yet you can't process that and you can't tell yourself, this is one of the biggest record deals given to any artist in this town in the past two decades.

You can't tell yourself like, this is more advanced money than anyone's gotten in the last five years. You can't reconcile that fact. And I remember that day feeling so guilty that I was like, oh, this just isn't right. Something's off. And then later I would figure out why. Yeah.

So, I mean, from the time, how old were you then when you signed? I don't even remember. Okay. Mid-20s? Okay. Late 20s? So when you went there, when you moved to Nashville, basically you're saying you're all in. I mean, that's what you're working for.

That's what you were working for. Yeah, that was the goal. And then it came about. and what was the, I guess, what was the realization, what, you had that feeling, but then after that, I feel like everything changed. Totally. So walk us through that a little bit. Or as much as you wanted.

What the change was? Yeah, and like, and like how it, how that affected you in your music. Oh, it, it affected. every single part of my life, whether it was as a human being, as a person, as an artist, as a songwriter. You know, there's, it's such a, the music industry has shrunk, first of all. And you can trace it back to like, oh, shoot, I can't even, the thing started with an end. You can download music.

Oh, Napster. Napster. Napster. Yeah. So that's kind of where you could trace all this. Long story short, the music industry has shrunken. Kind of like ag, you know. And with that sort of consulate, that shrinking comes consolidation. Yeah. So there's a handful of people that run the whole industry, the town. They decide what songs get pushed, what artists get pushed. And it's, it becomes this environment where it is no longer healthy competition. It's a, It's another animal. It's like politics in the music industry. Very much so. Yeah.

It's nothing to do with, you know, like in politics, what's right for the American people. It's what's right for the politician to put in his pocket. It's kind of really what it comes down to. And I know that's opening a can of worms. But it's about control and the healthy competition. You know, like everyone loves to say like 90s country was the best. Man, I don't necessarily disagree. agree with that at all. But I can tell you why

it was. The 90s country era was so huge, so prevalent. There was healthy competition. There was options. You know, like in ag, we've got a limited a number of options for people to bid for our product. Right. So we can only get

what so good of an offer, so to speak. You know, and back in the 90s, there was 25, 30 record labels. Right. There was hundreds of radio stations owned by individual people, not a major corporation owning 89% of all radio stations. So a long way of saying this, you have now this town that's no longer about healthy competition.

It's about maintaining your establishment, maintaining your control, and it's a corrupt, as an artist, it's, are you willing to, I mean, basically sell your soul to me. Are you willing to let me own, you might walk away with 20% of your earnings. Maybe, maybe. I'm not saying that's bad. I mean, shoot, in agriculture, that's a great thing sometimes. Right, right. But it, and then becomes, we're going to control your life. We're going to control what you say. We're going to control what you wear. Put on social media. What you put on social media. We're going to, control your songs. We're going to change everything about you, too.

That was another dynamic. And then if you're viewed as a threat to an establishment, that is, you know, that's something that you can just be put on the list. They'll suppress you. Yes. They don't want to push you out further. Because they don't want the people who work with that established artists, they have an income, they have bills, they have a certain lifestyle.

and they don't want to what they view as a threat, you know. So when you sign that record deal, was it one of those major corporations? Huge. Huge. And you didn't know that when you signed it. You were just like, this is my dream. I was born to do this. I had a major, you know, Bob Seeger.

You know, you're on cloud nine. And so you signed that. And then this is where you realize all this going through into Nashville. Yeah. in the first, I think two years of being signed to that label, I realized, you know, it's so funny. Like, you know, the Queen of England has just died. I was watching some interviews with Princess Diana on a YouTube, you know, rabbit hole one night. And she said something that really resonated with me.

And she knew the day she got married, something wasn't right. I was like, man, I can identify with that. And then later, I think she did an interview somewhere where someone said, do you ever think you'll be queen? and she said, no, I don't think I'll ever be queen, but I think I have a big role and blah, blah, blah. And so I realized that I had sort of had those, like a similar realization about my time at that record label. I knew in the first two years this,

because I just knew this isn't right, and I had this, I was just twisted and knots the entire time. And it's so funny looking back at that now, because now I feel like, thank you, Lord. I have peace. And I finally feel, for the first time, since I signed that deal, I'm actually on the path. I'm supposed to be on. And it's so funny how achieving what you think is the goal.

And like, you know, I'm a person of faith. So for me, it always equates back to that. It's like the entire time God's like, man, I know that's what you think. But I have this other thing for you, this other path that I've only. given you the proper tools necessary to complete it. And I don't know if that answers your question or not, but... 100% answers. Totally. Yeah. You had to go through all that to get where you are right now. Yes. And I feel like people feel guilty about that maybe in some ways, because I know I did.

I felt like, man, what's wrong with me that I'm not making this work? Yeah, I should be happy that I've got this opportunity. Yes. And I was happy that I had the opportunity, but I knew something wasn't right and it wasn't and I've learned so much and I do think had I not been through all of that I couldn't be an example of like

Yeah you wouldn't appreciate it No and it's there's There's so many There's so many new opportunities these days and I just I don't know I feel like I'm all of that has made me has made me for this moment in time I don't know

I feel like, and I don't know a ton about the music industry, but right now, in 2022, it's never been easier to promote yourself as an independent artist than right now. Yes. So the freedom that we have right now, I guess maybe that's what I was trying to get at. I feel like all of this has built me for this moment in time. Because I would rather speak to directly to the people who support me and support my music then have all these middlemen, you know. Dictate everything.

Yes. And the freedom of expression, the freedom to be who I am, to talk about my background in agriculture. I was, you know, discouraged from doing that. And it was just so bizarre to me all the things that happened at that time. Don't you think, this is outside looking in,

but the transformation of the music industry what you talked about, the amount of freedom that's there to get music out, don't you feel like that is just added to the attempt within the music industry to just hold artists in a death grip? Because these record companies, they see the handwriting on the wall, and their entire industry is being upended. And it has been, you know, when I was a kid, I can use the Bob Seeger example. Like, if you wanted, if you wanted to listen to night moves, you had to con your mom into taking you to Pomita, and you had to buy the whole album.

And I think I still owe money for my last album that I have to pay Columbia House for. And I don't know whether anybody's still left in the collection agency there. But like, when that, that was the greatest scam ever. like I had a Columbia House account in my name, my mom's name, my dad's name. I got like, I got like 43 albums for a penny at one point, but it kind of bit me in the ass at the end. But yeah, like that song that you loved, yeah, you had to buy that whole album. Exactly. But the process of that was on your turntable, you ended up listening to every one of those songs. Yes. And there was a lot of songs that you ended up liking maybe more than the hit because

you had to listen the whole thing or you would listen to the whole thing you'd appreciate it more yeah you appreciated it well yeah you appreciated it because eight bucks was a lot of money to a punk ass kid when i was back then you know and now then like everybody just samples everybody just samples they you know you hear a you hear a 12 second riff on a tictock video and you're like oh what's that and i'm as guilty of it as anybody because i really love western field by what is that bartle Union. She had the Western feel. I love that song. Anyway, found that on TikTok.

But it's so changed, but you take that through. As that changed, the music industry got consolidated, consolidated, consolidated, consolidated. And then as technology has allowed these artists to go,

they don't necessarily need that record label. The labels that are there, they are so death grip. Yeah. And the artists. They're afraid of what you're doing right now. Yeah, they really are. Very much. They know they lose the power. They lose that. Absolutely. And I think if I could just say one thing to everyone listening to this right now, you know, I have a lot of, you know, farmer and rancher friends, and they're like,

oh, I'm not going to get on Spotify. And look, I have big issues with big tech as much as anybody else. But I will tell you this. If you pay 10 bucks a month for Spotify, First of all, I don't get anything of that as an artist. But you can stream my whole catalog, and through that support, you can support anyone you want to. You can listen to any artist, anywhere on earth, and any song they've ever done.

And that is freedom to artists. TikTok is freedom to artists, because exactly like what you two are saying. Those record labels, I mean, I know every executive in Nashville, and there's questions. questionable characters in all those top positions. And they don't care most of them, maybe not all, but most of them, the music is the last

thing anyone cares about. It's about manipulation. It's about control. And then it's really about what do I have to do to survive in this corporation and keep my job at this record label? What do I have to do? It's not what music do I have to promote. It's what kind of, you know, chicanery.

do I have to kind of get involved in. And so, yeah, the people, podcasts, people like you guys, independent artists, you know, anywhere this reaches, you know, we have the ability to decide what we want to hear as music lovers instead of some label telling us what we're going to like. I love it. I think that's great. I love that movement and I think more and more people can get behind that movement. I mean, I see it in my generation.

everybody's trying to come up with the next SoundCloud rapper. Everybody's trying to find the underground independent person because I think they respect that. They respect somebody that's not relying on a record label. And so I think what you're doing is super awesome. One thing that I wanted to say, and it's something that's kind of been, I feel like the country lifestyle is kind of getting hyped up now.

Yellowstone comes out. Everybody wants to be a cowboy. And I think a lot of the, I'm just going to say it, city kids think that that's going to be found in Nashville. you see this huge rise of popularity for Nashville. It's becoming like the New Vegas. Do you feel that that is worse for Nashville as a city, or do you think that's good that they're getting more popularity

and more people coming there? What do you think about the new, like, rise of this many people come to Nashville? Well, I will tell you, as someone who's lived there before the sudden change, I have mixed emotions about it. you know, I'm not opposed to progress and people doing well and, you know, finding new opportunities and all that. I will say it's kind of sad because the things that made Nashville, Nashville, you know, half of Music Row, Music Row is 16th and 17th Avenue. And for decades since the 50s, those two streets have been where all the songwriters, all the producers, there's another little

community called Barry Hill where most of the studios were centered so between those two little pockets all of country music was made uh and Nashville you know was a place that songwriters could afford to live meek out a meager living so they could have time to work on their craft and not have to work six jobs in order to pay rent and just write you know when they could they could really be dedicated and that's why country music for in my opinion since its inception has had the best songwriters the best musicians you know the best technology has embraced the technology for the best records and um now that's that's not the case it's hard to afford to live there as a brand new songwriter yeah music row is half of it's now one big huge giant apartment complex

nothing against people moving there, but it's not, the things are slowly going away that made it who it was. And that's just time, I guess. That's just life. But, um, well, that's really the reason I want to ask you,

because you have that perspective of what it used to be. And now people are all going there, flood in there, and they don't know what it used to be like. So I just thought that was interesting. I wanted to ask you that. It's definitely, I mean,

I think it's great for the town, you know, but at the same time, it's going to be interesting to see the future of our genre. because those are real things that have sort of been Nashville's advantage in the past, you know?

And I don't know, it kind of remains to be seen. What will happen there? I feel like there's a little bit of a, well, it might be more than a little bit, but there's definitely a divergence in country music. Yeah. Because you have top 40 country or whatever you want to call it.

you have your pop country. You're rip pop country. Yeah. And then you have these guys that are a lot more, what I would say, on the edge of old country and new country. And then you have the old country. Yeah. Right. And I don't know how that all plays out.

I'm sure it plays out by people vote with the money they spend probably. Absolutely. But it's going to be interesting to see. how that changes the industry, I guess. One thing that I wanted to say that I thought when you were talking about your record label and how they said that they didn't want you to talk about how you grew up on a farm, I think that's so ass backwards because I think so many people would appreciate that you come from a real, like, livelihood.

That's what I just don't think they get right, is people want to relate to you on those kind of things. They want to know that you came from that kind of livelihood. And so if they don't want you to do it, I think they're losing on that. You know, I think when they're trying to suppress artists like that, they're going to lose in the long term. Yeah, absolutely. That was just something I've had to think about. No, it's a bizarre deal.

It's something that, you know, if you, again, there's a lot of interests where if you are, if you're authentic to what you're doing in a sea where that isn't really the case, you know, it's not necessarily received well. So if that's a polite enough way to say it. From you, I feel like you've kind of made it out of the wilderness. Yeah. So today, when you look at the world ahead of you, like what are you striving? and four. What drives you now? Yeah. Well, my freedom and independence as a human being coming out of that

belly of the beast, you know, that's the other thing. I think that the toll all that can take on you, just as a person, it's a miserable existence when the puppet masters, when you know that the puppet masters are going to do what they're going to do and it's not going to be what's good for you. You know, that's a personal toll. And so I'm free of that. And I get to be free as an artist. And where I'm headed is back to where I kind of started with Bob, the arenas. You know, we, we have the, I have a great group around me. We have the talent to get there. we have the ability to get there. It's just going and taking it one step out of time.

And that's really what we're all about on what we're doing here is we're going back to the farm and then getting back to the arenas. And that's really where it's headed, I guess. Do you feel like this kind of music that you're coming out with here soon is like your sound that you feel, you are meant to sing. Like, do you feel like this sounds the most true to you? Well, being as it covers, it's a bit of a different kind of thought process,

but it's a foundation into who I've always been and haven't been allowed to be. So it's more of just getting to release music. You know, I also was put in artist jail when I was on this label. We call it artist jail affectionately. You know, you're signed to a, a record label and yet you're not allowed to put out music. I put out five songs in five years.

Wow. You know, and then that's a whole other conversation, but I wasn't allowed to put music out. And it's like, well, what, you know, and then that just goes back to the conflict as a, as a person. When you are. Start second guessing yourself. Well, yeah, that. And then you're just like, well, what am I doing? If I can't create music, you don't get to be in your purpose. Like, if you guys can't wake up and take care of your hogs and farm and do your podcast and someone just comes along and says, no, you can't do anything like that. You watch your pigs die. You watch your cornfields die. It's like sitting there and watching that as an artist. And so now I'm getting to actually have my freedom where I can release what I want. You know, music isn't, I love to record all kinds of

styles. And so I'm just excited to get to release and just begin to show people who I am as an artist, really. Did they ever give you like a reason why? No, they never give you in reason. No, they just do it. Except that it's your fault. That's the only, you know, they're so great at putting, you know, there's a, I think with any huge corporation comes, certainly in our government, maybe. if we want to tie it back to that. We don't ever get political here on Bar- You don't? Oh, no, we're just kidding.

If it's not intentional, there is a huge amount of incompetence. And you can either call it incompetence or intentional. Who knows? But there's, when their incompetence or their intentionality, if that's a word, fails, it is always the artist's fault. But yet the artist has to do everything they say.

Because they're the gatekeepers. Yeah, or you're difficult. You know, they did all this. Here's another thing too. Like they did all this to Whalen Jennings. You would think they would maybe step back from that and realize, you know, maybe we shouldn't do this to artists. Because they drove Whalen out of town on a rail

and with a, you know, massive amount of debt and all these other things. And Whalen just said, I don't need to do it y'all's way. And he did it, Wayland's way. Yeah. And he's such a great example that I look up to, you know. There's no, and I feel like I have way more opportunities than Waylon ever had.

You know. To go, kind of going back to that. Yeah. When you, when a young artist, or when an artist arrives in that, in those circles, do you feel like that there's any mechanism to support them as far as them having any idea whether they're being taken advantage of or not? I think there is some. For me, it was Belmont University.

It was a college I went to, couldn't afford to go there, had loans out the wazoo and all that to go, came home and drove a silage truck on the farm, which is so awesome to come here and know that people are going to know what that is. But, you know, Belmont taught me a lot of great things about, you know, contracts, what to do, what not to do. So I do I do feel like there's some of those things, but I also feel like everything has changed so much just since I was in school. you know, I don't know. It's so hard to navigate any of that. Yeah, I just feel like that's got to be for artists.

Because most people, I think, are like you and the fact that you're just like any other artist in the fact that that that music is in you. And all you really want to do is get that out and create. you're not interested in the business side of it other than, you know, you think of, you think of the possibilities of if you are successful, that that would be great. But there's kind of a disconnect there and artists look at the industry as the bridge to get them there. But there's a lot of those people, a lot of those artists are not business equipped. No.

And it's got to be a very scary proposition when you're relying on a whole group of people to get you from where you are to where you want to be and you're just assuming that they have your best interest in mind. Oh, yeah. I know guys who, again, I feel like I was fortunate because, you know, being on a farm, you got to know your bottom line.

And then you also have to be a creative thinker how to get there or how to improve it, you know? So I felt like I got a really good balance, you know, growing up of being business-minded enough and then letting my creativity, you know, sort of lead the way. But I know, guys, I worked with a person who worked with another artist, huge artist, very successful. The person wanted to put me in what's called a 360 deal. and that's a technical term for like they would own a big percentage of every income stream that you provide.

You know, whether it's merchandise, masters, masters are your music, the sound recording, touring, anything you do, they would own a piece of it. And this guy was a very powerful person, and he got this young act to sign this deal. And so they did, and then they went on to become huge. He was good friends with my lawyer at the time, and I didn't know this until I walked into the meeting, and he got him and my lawyer, we came in, it was just us three. It was me, him, and my lawyer. And my lawyer explained to me why I needed to do this deal

that would essentially be like, you probably, realistically, you're going to have to sign one 360 deal in your career as an artist. And maybe it's different today. But at the time, one 360 deal was expected, this would be a minimum of two upon my career. And I remember walking in there,

and I was like, and they explained to me all the reasons why I needed to do this. And I said, but wait a minute, don't you just get 15% of X anyway? Like, I thought that's what everyone in your profession did. Like, I don't want you to not get the 15% I don't want you to work for less.

I just, why are we doing all this additional, you know, huge percentages? And boy, that did not go over well. You don't question the system. And come to find out years later, this artist that he did successfully get to sign the deal, massive implosion. I think it drove this gentleman to have a serious health issue. Like it was that big. Yeah, because the weight of it.

They finally got it. lawyer that knew what he was talking about and the lawyer unwinded them all that from this terrible contract they had been in and it was it's like what you just you get so far down the road and you realize you're really working for nothing because you're yes you're owned it's your yeah your own yeah it's so it sounds like you got a little bit of clarity from that first deal you signed and then you walked into this meeting you were like hell no this was before okay the record deal okay okay way before. It was, and the only reason why I even had any sort of sense is because I had been in

Belmont and I had had people saying, you don't sign two 360s. You sign one 360 with a record label, most likely, but you certainly don't sign a 360 with any individual before you get to a record deal. And I paid attention. I was counting them dollars too much to go to school and not, you know? So I'm very grateful that I had that resource, you know, but maybe I should have signed it. and but who knows, I wouldn't be here today, so that would suck. Right, yeah, that's right.

No, that's 100% right. Yeah. In all of the, in all of your, so how long have you been performing like, yeah, how long have you been, how long have you been from the time that you toured with Bob? How long have you been doing this? well uh it actually started before bob like like being heavy on the road performing i've been doing just since i was itty-bitty right but being on the road um i started out in a pickup and trailer and uh we played every honky tonk sometimes there was more people on stage than in the audience

and uh we just we grinded for um i had gotten an agent and so like you know he was booking me on all these amazing shows. No, terrible. Some of the, like one night, I didn't get paid, you know, another night. It was just, we played it all. So we were well-seasoned by the time we got to Bob. And then just every year since. So I think the Bob tour was on, it was late 2014.

Okay. And early 2015. Yeah. And then, you know, we still, that's what I love to do. I'm on the road playing shows. and anywhere I can. So what is the worst venue that you've ever played at? Like where you walked in and you went, oh, hell no.

Oh, man. And have you ever done that? Have you ever walked in and said nope? Yeah, not going to happen. I've walked in and said nope and still played the show. So, but we played this. We were in, shoot, the town escapes me, but the club is gone. So in Ohio, there are some clubs.

There's one club called the dusty armadillo. It's a cool club. You know, we've played there many times. Great deal. But then in a neighboring town, there was a club called the Rusty Armadillo. And boy, it was on its last leg or must have been when we played it. I walked in. It smelled like throw up and pee and bad beer.

And I just walked in and I remember being like, oh, hell no. we still played the show the sound man the sound man had a a scent so strong and then he just ordered himself like a huge pizza and he put it on the console of the soundboard and was just like yeah whatever

he got just enough levels and then he left there was no one in the club it was just like I remember gagging during the show it smelled so bad in there and then after that I was like okay well we're not playing the rusty and we never had to worry about it they ironically it burnt down from an electrical fire to get the insurance money yeah I think it probably what was the best venue you think you ever played oh man I feel like um like what's one of your favorite moments on that stage well I know Bob was a big one but that was huge uh there was a lot

of favorite moments there but we played um uh the gorge out in Washington State at a country music festival a couple years ago, several. And that was a really cool experience. You know, like I got to meet Mark Chestnut. Okay. Like, he was super cool. And that was a really fun experience. It's beautiful.

It's on this huge river. It's on the Columbia River. And that was pretty awesome. I've seen it. I've watched some, like, music documentaries. Like, those are becoming a huge thing nowadays. some reason there's so many documentaries coming about certain bands or artists or whatever and i think it's somebody in the documentary said it was an artist when you're up on that stage and you have the ability

to control kind of what the crowd does just based off your voice and your in your instruments it's just like the most surreal feeling ever like yes and i just i i i look at as somebody look on the outside I look at it, I just look at that. I'm like, I don't think you could probably find that anywhere else. Like, truly. I don't think so. And for me, it's just joy. Like, I get as much, when I feel like people are getting as much joy,

and that feels, that is my job, you know, to create an environment where people get as much joy out of listening to music as I do getting to play it. You know, that is something to me that I'm just like, wow, that's really cool. when you get to sort of enter into that place. It is. It's unique. I don't know. Maybe sports,

but I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. If you really have that same dynamic. Right. Yeah. That's a cool deal. What about your dream artist to work with?

If you could work with any artists in history. Oh, look at you. History. Waylon Jennings. Waylon Jennings. Yeah. Either one of those guys.

I mean, I think Whalen, you know, just being such an inspiration to me, that would just be. and he just seems like a fun cat young Elvis or Vegas Elvis I think it would both

I think it would both be a trip I think a lot of people can identify with your 360 contract reference after the because the Elvis movie is popular really popular my wife's I think only watch it like five times she just freaking loves it but I mean that is an example

obviously you don't know all the and outs, but he was pretty much lock, stock, and barrel locked in for his entire career. Well, and he's a prime example of, I think, too, you know, I just anticipate, because if I was a person on the outside looking in, I guess I would just say, or I expect the question to be asked, like, well, why didn't you just sign the deal? And, you know, maybe you would be playing arenas right now. Yeah. And maybe so. And maybe I would have ended up like Elvis. All that. You can't put a price, you can't put a price, though, on your, I guess your soul. Yeah.

Or on your, as far as, as far as your talent, as far as your creativity. Yeah. I mean, you, given that to somebody is, yeah, you just can't do it. It needs that whole thing, this whole, I guess one of the things, too, like, I wasn't raised that way. Yeah. I was raised that, like, bootstrap it if you have to. stand on your own two feet and whatever happens happens you can you know but also i think for me personally this or that whole thought process in america needs to you know we shouldn't if we don't stand up

and say something that hey that's not the way any of this should go whether it's politics whether it's ag whether it's music you know part of me too is like if i don't stand up and say something how will people who love music ever know? Right. You know? 100%. We won't ever know. They won't know.

And then all that stuff that goes on in the dark in that town will keep going on in the dark until somebody stands up and shines. I'm one flashlight. But there's a lot of rats. There's a lot of rats that can be seen in that one little flashlight. Yeah. And I think that's what we each have to do as Americans. When, you know, pointing, when things are happening that,

shouldn't happen. We've got to stand up. We've got to say something. 100%. Or it goes on. Yep. That's what we always say on here. When we do get a little political, we always say, you know, you got to speak up. Yeah. You got to talk about it. Because if we can't discuss things and work things out, nothing's going to get done. Nothing's going to get solved. That's right. And that goes along with, there's just an awful, I don't know how this got started, but I didn't want to stop you for just one second. But the other thing, the other thing, thing I was thinking about is other artists that are coming up in the game can hear your story and be like, well, I didn't know that, right?

You know? Right. And it's the same thing when we say with politics. Somebody listening to our show when we get political might go, wow, I thought that way, but I didn't want to talk about it. And I felt isolated and alone. Yeah. So it's so important to tell your story and tell what, you know, you've been through because somebody

can. And two, it's important that people know where their hard-earned dollars are going. to me. Yeah. Like, not that I'm trying to go down this, you know, road, but there's a lot of artists that present themselves as one way, and I know their fan base probably thinks another way. And I just always wonder, hmm, if they knew, would they have a change of heart?

Yes. You know, let the truth be what it is and the chicks fall within it. I think that's 100%. Mm-hmm. I agree. 100%. 100%. You were going to say something, though.

I wish I knew. I wish I knew what I was going to say. That's the hardest part about podcasting. You just got to belt it out or else you'll just lose it. That's why we just interrupt each other because I have, like, there's eight squirrels running in a cage in here and you got to get it out. One squirrel cage with eight squirrels in it. I think how did we get to squirrels? It's supposed to be something else.

Hamsters. Hamsters. It's supposed to be hamsters. Got three hamsters running in a one hamster cage. But anyway. So all your time on the road, this is a lighthearted. What is your go-to truck stop snack? Golly.

I've been in a few of those. I'd say I always have to get a cup of coffee. You know, like a habitual coffee drinker. Can't go wrong. No, no, I can't do it. I can't do a slim gym. I like Cracker Barrel cheese, though. Oh, yeah.

You ever have them Cracker Barrel Cheese packets? Those are good. I mean, I just like will eat anything. Potato chips. you know, a donut occasionally. But I have to have coffee, whether it's midnight or... Yep. You've been around the whole country.

So you got better insight on this than most people. Okay. Best gas station chain out there. Casey's. I'm not lying. I'm not lying. Casey's breakfast pizza is damn good. Dad can't...

I hate Casey. He loved come and go for so long, and then they took his mountains. Do they have bad politics? Because if they do, I won't support them anymore. No, I don't think that's true. Okay. So here's my take on Casey's is. is. So I was a salesman for six years or so on the road. And I, all over Iowa, Missouri, some into

Arkansas. And one thing that I enjoyed was when you would go to one of these small towns and it had a mom and pa gas station where they cooked in there, you know, they had their own food and they'd be, now granted. I'd rather go to a mom and pop. There's some of them that it was not a good thing. Like, obviously it was not a good thing. But there were a lot of really great ones. and what happened was, I think it was Quickstar. Somebody will correct me in this, I'm sure run me off, but there was another chain that decided they were going to try to acquire Casey's. Oh.

And what Casey's did was they went out and they put themselves in a huge amount of debt and they just started buying up every mom and pa gas station they could to make themselves encumbered with so much debt that they weren't going to get taken over. Yeah. And then in the process of that, they made a deal with come and go. And they bought come and go as a, they decided they wanted to be like only on, only in big cities along the interstate. That was their thing. They bought all of the come and goes in all these small towns.

And like overnight, all the mom and paw hamburgers were gone and it was all cases. I can't support Casey's now. I freaking hate. Well, I'll tell you, one, I don't know how the hell you know all that. Because that's what's happened in my industry. Unless it's like to stop. I don't know how they have the podcast. And then I love Casey's.

Hey, I love Casey's over here. I love Casey's. I don't know how the hell you know all that, but I'll just say it. I, the only reason I loved come and go in our town was because they had crispy cream donuts. But when they stopped having those come into town, I didn't really care for coming to go. And Casey's breakfast pizza always slaps. So I got to give.

As far as national, as far as Nat, like when I travel. She's got the most experience. It is good. They are clean. That's mostly what I'm going for. Yep. Yeah. I'll give them a 50%.

They're okay. But, you know, when you get old, my fond memories of all the other ones are like, it's not as good. Well, seriously, though, any individual does anything better than a corp, in my opinion. Yeah, that's right. All right. Well, I think we're going to wrap it up. So Claire is actually going to be playing for us.

She's coming out here. She's setting up. She's going to start playing. So we'll shoot a little bit of that for you guys because I know you guys might want to check that out. One last time, where can people find you and, you know, all that stuff? All social media at Claire Dunn Music, C-L-A-R-E, D-U-N-N music, Spotify, iTunes, Apple Music, anywhere you stream music, YouTube, Claire Dunn music, or Claire Dunn on all the

streaming platforms. and if you want a physical CD, Clairedone.com. So thank you guys so much for having me. Of course. Legit, the most fun podcast I've ever done. Well, we appreciate it. We thank you for coming down.

It was awesome. You guys have a great thing here. We appreciate it. We appreciate it very much. Our first single comes out August 7th of that project. And long story short, again, you got to check out the podcast for more of the reason why. But after all my time in Nashville,

I'm kind of being in artist jail. and not being able to be free and be who I am and all that good stuff. I wanted to have my first project, after all of that, be a compilation of the people who inspired me to be a free artist and to just be who I am. So this is the first song that I'll play from that. This isn't the first single, but this guy really inspired me as a singer in a song. I wrote this with a good friend mine, Tom Douglas, and I can't sing with a pick in my mouth. I told her I couldn't like to see the world and shake off that.

I got the home sometime. I felt like I couldn't find my way home, so this was inspired out of a moment in time. But I have found my way home, and I could find it home in the dark blindfolded, but it doesn't either here nor there. More people or we'll go to a... This episode is brought to you by an espresso. Hear that? That's your next obsession. a new world. Every sip, a new taste. This is the new espresso. One touch, endless possibilities.

Iced, flavored, long, short, because some days call for that espresso kick. And sometimes, a smooth, silky latte just wins. It's exceptional but effortless. Like actually effortless. Simply press, brew and explore. Nispresso, what else? Keep exploring at nespresso.com. You know, you and I didn't know each other from Adam, and that is the great thing about what we do. We have met so many wonderful people, and we've had so many. You can't put a price on the conversations that Sawyer and I have had in the time that we've been doing this. And today, this is one of the best. I mean, it really was.

It really was one of the best. And sit back there watching you perform. I was just like It's like surreal It is so surreal Because you have an amazing Boys and this But I also was like

Wow this is like This is like a really neat This is such a neat spot And we had no idea when we did this When we cleaned all the Eight layers of straw that was in here out Like we had no idea What was here

And it really isn't anything without the people and with what we do, but it's the experiences that make such a difference. And this has been a great experience, and we are so thankful. If I could just brag on these guys for just a minute, and I know it's the whole family here, and I know it takes a village to do this, but these guys really allow a real conversation to be had, and they really allow to get down to the core of whatever it is they're talking about. And I'm not just saying that for me. I've watched all their other podcasts.

And that is such a rare thing because sometimes it just takes a rare person to be willing to go down to the roof of it. And allow that person to express, and this is coming from me, especially for today. Allow someone to express where they're at, where they've come from, and where they're going. So anyway, thank you for having me. One last thing. I almost forgot. Pay the fee. If you got any value from the show,

If you're related to Claire on anything, share the show, pay the fee, employees, coworkers, whoever, trying to grow this thing. We appreciate every single one of you guys and we'll see you back here next Friday for another episode.