BEING HER with Margarita Nazarenko - 184: The Woman Who Started Her Biggest Success At 52 — And Has Zero Regrets

Episode Date: September 27, 2026

Join me for the Final round of The Unbothered Woman Ever - We start October 2nd. She was a fashion editor at GQ and Allure. She built a fashion line that dressed every A list celebrity. Then covid shut it all down.And at 52 years old she started over. And built the biggest success of her entire career.In this episode Margarita sits down with Mary Alice Haney in Hollywood and has the conversation every woman in her thirties, forties and fifties needs to hear. About reinvention. About the why not me mentality. About what it actually costs to build something.We talk about how Mary went from fashion editor to founder to podcaster, why confidence is not something you wait for it is something you fake until it becomes real, what nobody tells you about balancing motherhood and ambition, why your biggest success might still be ahead of you, and why your age and your children are not the excuses you think they are.If you have ever thought you are too old, too busy, too far behind, or that the window has closed, this episode will change your mind.Being Her is your no filter space for woman empowerment, relationship advice, confidence, feminine energy, and living life completely on your own terms.Love you lots like jelly tots xx See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hello, welcome to the Being Her podcast and I am in Hollywood and I cannot be here and not bring someone amazing on to the podcast when I have the chance to. I know a lot, but not everything. And I feel like you, Marietta Sainey, know a lot of things that I need to learn. And I feel like I am you and you are me in a way that is really, really interesting. I want to ask you about things that I feel like my audience really need to learn about that are not necessarily my field of expertise, but I think that you will bring a wisdom to it that it's just going to explode their mind. You spent a lot of time at GQ and Alure, building other people's careers and doing a lot for other people. If people in my audience are in that space where they feel they're successful, they're in their 30s,

or they're working on something and they ask themselves a question like, why not me? Why can't I do something for myself. How did you pivot and how did you change into creating your own brand? So I think if you look back at the beginning, I felt that. Why not me? Always. It was, you know, I knew I wanted to be the West Coast editor for GQ and, or I didn't know it was GQ. I knew I wanted to work at one of the magazines back in the 90s and the early 2000s. It was the height of the magazine world. Think of Devil Wars Prada. That was, that was us. And when I did that job, I couldn't get a job. So I, I moved to Paris, got an unpaid internship at Harper's Bazaar, came back and started working at the magazines. From there, I always knew I wanted to be a Barbara Walters. I always, doing what I do now

is the greatest dream of my life. So I thought to myself, okay, how do I do that? Because I have to get tape. Well, I used the GQ, and I got on the red carpets and interviewed celebrities as they came out and got my tape and then got my first television job. And again, like every aspect of my career from creating a fashion line to creating this podcast has been that thought process, which is why not me? Of course it's me.

Like, if everybody else is doing it, why can't it be me? And then how do I get there? And what's the, and again, it's the hard work and the thinking out of the box and just making these moments, you know, being in a magazine, using that to be able to go on the red carpet, you know, creating,

a fashion line based on what I had learned as a celebrity stylist. And then currently with GMD, seeing a hole in the market for something that I needed in terms of women's health and then finding that white space and then going after it. So I think it really, if there's a lesson to be had in it from the beginning of my career was always, of course it's going to be me. Like, why not? And but it's not just thinking that. It's also then, okay, what are the real steps that have to happen in order to get there and then just making it happen. How did you get that attitude when you were little? Were you vivacious and were you like, I think I've always had that. I think I've always struggled horribly in school. So I,

I learned differently. You know, I'm definitely, I was an artist. I was a painter. I, you know, I went to graduate school for film. I was always a visual learner. And I was in a system, which was wrote learning that. And so I was always sort of trying to, stand up and say like I am smart I am capable in a system that kind of told me that I wasn't so I think that I always had that like I'm the oldest of five and I was just you know and and and and I'm just getting you know somebody says no I'm like yeah you just watch me so I do think that you're kind of born with that and then I think it's just the idea you have to maybe be not a little nuts but just like almost so confident that it's, of course it's going to be me. I don't know. If you can just kind of get that

attitude, and I tell people, then a lot of young girls and boys reach out to me. How did you become a stylist? How did you become a fashion editor? How did you create your fashion line? How did you create a supplement company? And it really is that thought, which is, of course you can do it, but you're going to have to work your ass off harder than anybody else and figure it out. And I also think the other kind of secret sauce that nobody talks about is I am good at doing this. I'm good at interviewing people because I'm a curious person and I love people. And that emotional intelligence isn't talked about enough. And I think that has also really served me. People like to work with me or they want to help me because I also love helping them. And I want to lift other women up. So women

lift me up and it really is that kind of I think leading in that way women like to put a lot of sticks in the wheels with the bike when it comes to I'm too old I've got children mainly those two my DMs are filled with those how do you reframe those two let's go with the children and then the the two old to start something new yeah so I'm I have five children and I remember when I was starting Haney my fashion line my babies were really little and that was that was really tough because the balance, you're not going to do it all great at the same time. And I look back now and I, like, I can see sometimes my teenagers that don't want to hang out with me anymore and all they wanted to do is cling onto my leg and I had to go to Fashion Week. I feel pain in myself.

You know, it's a pain in your soul. I'm there right now. And now I'm like, oh my God, should I have taken off, really taken off that time and just been with them? Because, you know, That's maybe a regret that I have, but, you know, it isn't easy. So I think the other thing I talk about, and I think it's important, is that I had a divorce. And so I had a very happy divorce. I mean, if you can have a happy divorce, it's hard and terrible. But my ex-husband and I are really good friends. So when I wasn't with the kids, I was working really hard. And I tried to be with the kids when I was with them. But I, again, I remember when they were really little and I had my two boys because it's a blended marriage with the five. They were two boys

and I was the girliest girl. I can't throw a football. I can't do any of that. Like, and they just wanted me to do Legos with them and sit on the floor and that was painful for me and just trying, like that's also real. I feel like a bad parent a lot of times because my kids want to play and I'm not a kid and I'm trying. I know, but it's people don't talk about that enough as a mom. It's like sometimes I can remember going to a therapist and she's saying to me, I was like, I don't want, again, I have, you know, ADD and, you know, all this. I was like, I cannot sit and play Legos for five hours with them, you know, and that's what they, you know, or, you know, and I had boys. So I think that there was just, you know, and I didn't give myself enough of a break.

And I think any woman listening, whether you're a working mom or not or, you know, whatever it is, having children, that baby phase is so amazing. And that toddler phase is so amazing, but it's also really hard. And look, bigger kids, bigger problems. problems, but it's, you know, just give yourself a break. I think that's the first thing I'll say. And just know that as a, you know, a mom working out of the house, it's, you know, they are going to remember those great moments. And they're not going to remember the moments that you had to leave and go to work. They just don't. Like they have a very small thought process. It's all about them. So you're not destroying them. You're not, you know, you're actually showing them an

example of of a woman who needs something for herself. And that was me. I knew I needed it. You know, I wanted, I've just been that person since I've been born. And if I hadn't gone for that and I hadn't become that, I would have, I would have been really sad and I wouldn't have been a good mom. And Dr. A and I, my co-host on GMD, talk about that all the time because she's also a doctor who delivers babies and all that. And she has the most incredible relationship with her girls who were, you know, both now at Stanford and she said the, you know, the time that she came home was the time she spent with them, but she didn't, she didn't feel guilty about it, and which is, which is interesting. And then the second question is age.

Age. And I love this question because I'm 55 years old. And two years ago, I started the CMD podcast because I saw a space in the market, you know, I was, my father got sick. I had shut my fashion line during COVID. I was turning 50. or it was already 50, and I was, you know, wanting to understand, like, how can I live the next decade of my life? And there was nothing for women. There was the human lab, which I love. There was Peter Atio, which I love. But there was one episode out of 30 for women. And so, you know, I met Dr. Ali Abadi and just the light bulb went off. And that was at 52 years old. And I would arguably say that she MD and we also have a supplement line OV are the biggest successes of my career

at 52 years old. And the reason it is that way, in my opinion, was yes, it was a white space. Yes, it needed to happen. But I also had so many learnings from the time I was a fashion editor, the time I started my own fashion line, the time that I created a television show, the time, you know, like all of those moments and all of those failures have come together. to now. Did you, when you opened it, feel, right, I'm 52, I know this, I'm just going to walk in, people are going to listen to me? Or did you feel like, oh, my God, are they going to take me seriously in the space?

Did you have imposter syndrome? No, I did not at all. I literally. Teach us. Teach the good people how to. Yes. So I got depressed during COVID because I had shut down my fashion line, which was 10 years in the making, Netaporte launched us.

We were at every major, you know, we were on every red car. carpet, every celebrity war, my line. And because of COVID, you know, Neiman Marcus was our biggest buyer. How did that feel that you have to show it down? Yeah, it was just, it was my baby. And it was literally, and it was my identity. And I just knew, again, that this can't be it for me in terms of my career. But it also happened with the purpose and sort of this, like me needing something. And we've talked about what your journey on my podcast, we shot that earlier. you were looking for something in that moment. And that's kind of when the magic happens,

when purpose and passion come together. Ooh, purpose and passion. I think never the imposter syndrome. I've never had that, which is, of course, it's going to be me. And of course, like, I knew that I had created television shows before I tried to do two talk shows, you know, back in the day and almost got there, like, at the very, you know, bitter end. So I had always known I wanted to do a format,

and then podcasts are the new talk. shows. And so from the beginning, I treated it. I saw the vision and I knew what I wanted to do and then I happened to meet the perfect partner. I mean, Dr. AliBody is the best women's health doctor advocate and her knowledge with, you know, my, what I've built in terms of being a founder, it just kind of came together. But no, never. I've never, even with Haney when I started my fashion line, I was like, of course, Netaporte is going to launch me. I'm going to, I'm going to set up that meeting and it's going to, you know, I mean, it's just, you kind of have to have that. And if you don't have it, then fake it.

Fake it. Just fake it. I say that about confidence in my book. Like, if you don't feel you look good, you know, women always ask, how do I look to their husband? Don't ask him. Just fake that you feel great because then people will see that you feel great. And then eventually it happens.

It's a muscle. Yeah. It's a muscle. I've tried and failed and tried and failed so many times. Because you've said confidence isn't something you wait for, right? No. Confidence is something that you, again, if you don't have it and you, by the way, I'm not confident all the time. I still get my feelings hurt. I still like, you know, I'll still make a decision and

is that the right decision, but I make it and I go for it. And I think that's the difference. I never wait around because if you wait around for the right moment, the right moment ever comes. There's never a right moment to start a podcast. There's never, we started two businesses at the exact same time, OV and GMD. Like that was the, in hindsight, like, what were we thinking? We were insane. But we built the plane as we were flying it. And I think that that's the thing I want to tell. Just go for it.

Yeah. Doesn't matter what it is. What was the transition between the fashion label closing to this? How many years was it? It was pretty quick. It was probably, again, like that six months. Six months? Yeah.

It took to be a bit depressed and then. Yeah. Well, and then what happened was I went on my, one of my best friends is Molly Sims. And she has this amazing podcast called Lipstick. on the rim and she had asked me to co-host her podcast when her other co-host wasn't available. And so I asked her if I could bring some doctors because my dad had just gotten diagnosed with Parkinson's and all of that. And that just so it was just she happened. I always say

she's such a women's advocate and such a badass rock star. You know, that was was a moment. I thought also there were five other business ideas that I had that were that did. didn't happen. And, you know, when Dr. A and I met, actually, we were going to create a scrubs line, you know, I mean, that pivoted into GMD. So it was just, you know, all of these things that, that changed. How do you not let the failures or, if they are failures, or derailments, not rock your confidence? Like you said, you wanted to do talk shows. How do you, because I just pivot. So, I mean, I'll just tell you guys, like a story. So when I, again, I was, I always have sort of ideas a little bit before their time.

And I had wanted to create a talk show where you could buy everything on the set. So it was going to be the view, but it was going to be all like, you know, you could buy the outfits or you could buy, you know, like the rooms where it was a set in a house. And I had gotten this amazing producer to produce it with me. And we had convinced Brooke Shields that she was going to be the Barbara Walters and not have to work at all. And we go into the meeting with Roger Ailes, who was the head of Fox at the time. And that was the final meeting. And she, he said to her, oh, you're going to work 24 hours a day. Like, she was a working actress at the same time. So, and it literally that derailed the entire thing. And that would, and I just, that had happened to me two times. I had also created another talk show where my co-host, Universal had bought it. And my co-host's husband talked her out of doing it at the last minute. So, I mean, look, we were going and it was happening. So those were two, you know, you're almost there. And in that,

moment, I was like, okay, well, maybe this isn't happening right now. Let me pivot to what else do I want to do? And then that moved over to the fashion line. And I actually had a, I was, I was styling a celebrity at the time who, I'm not going to name names, went on the red carpet. And I had gone back and forth and back and forth and just, you know, styled her and she was best dressed and everything. And she got on the red carpet and told everybody that she styled herself. And that was also a moment where I was like, okay, I'm done with this that hurt me to my soul, but I'm gonna, what else do I want to do? Well, I've always wanted to do a fashion line. So let me just take all my learnings from, you know, styling all the covers of the magazines to the celebrities that I styled on the red carpet. And what am I not finding on the red carpet

that I want to give to my clients? That's a why not me moment when she doesn't mention you. Yeah. You were like, screw this. Yeah. Actually. Yeah, screw this. I'm going to step forward in my own life,

as opposed to waiting for other people to. And that was crushing. I mean, that's a real moment of, of, that's one of those moments that we talked about on, on CMD a minute ago, which is, that's hurt your feelings. Like those, those, those dig into your soul. But how do you just say, okay, what's next? What is the cost of reinvention every time you reinvent yourself? Because you are the queen.

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this code is valid on product only. Is it money? Is it time? Is it confidence? I think it's time. I mean, it is, it is, you know, I just had a, I had this amazing brain doctor that has been on the podcast so many times, Dr. Kelly Nyotis. And because I have a lot of brain disease in my family, we've been doing, I'm part of

this clinical trial. And over the last two years, she looked. at the blood in terms of what's going on my brain. She's like, God, there's so much inflammation. Like, what's going on? I'm like, it's stress. I am literally like this all the time. That's the cost.

And it's, you can't build something and bigger and bolder. And there is a reason that it's hard. And there is a reason that not everyone is doing it. And that is because there is a cost. And for me right now, that's the cost. So I've got to figure out how do I, you know, deal with my nervous system. How do I, you know, like, so there is, I would say that there's always, and not a cost. I don't want to say there's a, there's a yen and there's a yang. And so how do you

navigate that? I went to the doctor with like dermatitis on my hands. They were like, do you know what? All your blood's look normal. Stress, reduced stress. And I was sitting there with my kids playing some stupid Lego game, like as we said. And I was like, okay, so my choice is, because obviously stress because brands, business podcast, I can just sit here and play Lego and my brain will feel like it's imploding or I can have some dermatitis and a little bit of stress and do what I want to do. And I choose the latter. I choose the other one because I guess we're not always meant to be this exposed as well, you know, when you put yourself out on platforms, people judge you. Yeah. I mean, you know, that's the thing is that what we both do, you know, with GMD and what you do in your podcast is,

is our goal is to help women. That is the whole reason that Dr. Ali Bennett has started CMD. We want this, this healthcare system is broken and we wanted to create something that at least we could give the women the right information. So at least they could learn from the best brains and the best people. And that's why we have the most incredible celebrities. Haley Bieber comes on and talks about her pregnancy and Kim Kardashian talks about her psoriasis and, you know, all of this because their goal is our goal. And it's the same thing with you and what you've built. It's when you find your why and that is my why, CMD is my why. It's Dr. Ali Abadi's why. Like when that happens, that's really the magic. And I felt that with Haney, my fashion line too. I felt like, again, and I think you originally,

that one of the questions was building something for yourself. It's so hard, but it's also so rewarding. Yeah. And tell me about OVie. Well, OVie. Because I see it sitting there behind you. I'm like, what are you looking at me? OVee with you? So Dodger A when I met her, she said, I have two goals. One is to talk about breast cancer. She saved her own life from breast cancer. She saved Olivia Lamont's life from breast cancer. She is a huge women's health advocate. And we've done that. Like Olivia has been, you know, when she came out with her story and talked about like every woman needs to know their lifetime of breast cancer. So I feel like we have so much more work to do there. But that's a check. She also said, 15% of all women in this country have this condition called PMS. And it's now called PMS. It was called P-COS. It just the name changed. And it's the leading cause of infertility with endometriosis. And most women don't, 75% percent. don't know they have it. In the Middle East and you go to other countries, 35% of women have this. And she said, there are vitamins that you can take that work like, I'm not allowed to say

this medically, but I'm not the doctor, so I can't say this. There are vitamins that you can take that actually deal with the metabolic issues that deal with the fertility issues that deal with the acne and deal with the weight and deal with the hair loss. But you have to take 50 of them. And I've been giving them to my patients before medicine. It's the first. line of defense. So she said, go find the best scientist, come back and let's create a solution for these women. Again, this is the same idea as GMD, is that we want to, you know, most women don't have access to doctors like Dr. Allibody. So how can we give them the best information and then the best solution? So we created OV. And it has, I mean, it's, again, like both

companies have blown up because it works, you know, if you take it with your heaviest meal, it blocks your cars by 40%. That deals with the metabolic issues because people, PMS is a metabolic issue. Exactly. And so women are, you know, we have, I think we've had 100 women stop because they got pregnant. I think, you know, women are losing 15, 20 pounds that couldn't ever do anything at all. You know, the acne, the hair, like there's just a lot of issues that come with it.

Incredible. And it works. And I think that that's, again, you know, neither one of us, I mean, the thought, if you would ask me if I was going to start a supplement line, I would have said no. And once you get under the hood of it, you realize the garbage that is sold to women. So if we were going to do it, it had to be the best scientist, backed by science, backed by, you know, it had to be that. And so we launched it at the same time and it's been life-changing. You launched them at the same time, podcasts and OV?

Well, I'd say three months later. Three months. We started OV. So Jessica's watching, for example, and she's like, should I start a brand or a podcast? Yep. What's harder? Well, I would say, oh, God, which one is harder? Tell Jessica the truth.

I would say for me, if you ask our other founder, who's my sister, Meg, she would say OV's harder. I would say, no, she would say, she would say, ShmD is harder. I would say OV's harder. Why? Because I've built my whole life to do ShemD. And OV is a new muscle for me. And so, you know, you can have the best product in the world, which we do. I mean, she went in Huberman Lab.

He said every woman needs to be taking this. So it is real and it works. But the problem with a brand and the same thing with Haney, it doesn't matter if it's a fashion line or Ovi, is that it's how do you get through the noise? Because there's so much noise. And you can have the best product on the market, which we do, but how do you get through the noise?

So I think for CMD, it just, for me, this is second nature. I've been doing this and building a brand. OVie's a bit like building a fashion line, but it's a supplement line. So it's just different. They're both hard in different ways. But I would say for me that OV is harder, my sister Meg would say GMD is harder. Okay. Okay.

Jessica knows now. Jessica knows. But by the way, just which one of you most passionate about? So I was the most passionate about CMD, but Dr. A really was passionate. Not that she wasn't passionate about GMD, but this was really important to her because she's such, she's a world expert on this condition. I would love to talk to you about a sponsor of this video or podcast, and they are Jones Road because I have genuinely not shut up about them. So here's the backstory. For years, I hated the caked on look.

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specifically, okay? Because this is what is actually on my rotation every day right now. When you see me in a t-shirt, when you ask me where it's from, it's from skims because I got busy and I just don't have time to switch up the outfits and these just work. Okay. I don't know about you, but the second that you wash a t-shirt, it just loses shape, right? It just loses that crispiness that it had from the beginning. And so I don't like that. But skims don't do that. That's why I keep reaching for the same ones. The cotton jersey scoop neck cammy. Oh my God. I basically live in these camis all year round. And the problem with camis is that they go baggy. They lose their shape, three wears and it's done. It's a sad situation. This one doesn't. It's got just the right

amount of stretch. It hugs you without strangling you and it holds perfectly. Anyway, shop skims cotton and all my favorite pieces at skims.com and after you place your order, do me a solid. Be sure to let them know I sent you. Select podcast in the survey and select my show in the drop down menu so that they know that we sent you. When I was reading about you, I read that you talked about the most powerful decade. And before we let Jessica go and take a nap or wherever she's going to go, can you tell us about a woman's most powerful decade? Because, you know, it's scary to change as a woman and grow up essentially. I mean, I think I've always said I've loved every single decade for so many different reasons. And I was very worried about turning 50. And as someone who, you know,

know, I live in Los Angeles. I'm surrounded by the most beautiful people in the world. I was going to ask, I didn't want to profile LA, but I'm like, how do people, how do people get confidence here? Oh my God. Again, I don't, I think sometimes you have to be just a little bit crazy. Sometimes I come home from a party. I'm like, to my husband, I'm definitely the hottest person there. And there was like a supermodel sitting there. So obviously I'm not the hottest person there. But it's just feeling good about yourself. And I think that comes from, you know, knowing who you are, I'm building something that you love, whether it's a career or a family. It doesn't matter. Like just, you know, I look at my mom's generation and I'm so sad for them. First of all,

they didn't get HRT because of the, you know, the nonsense from that, the women's health initiative. And the other thing was that they, they didn't get the chance to do, to do what we get to do. I was supposed to interview Gloria Steinem in two weeks since she just passed away. and I am devastated because I would have loved to have had that conversation with her. This conversation we're having right now, I would have loved to have that conversation with her. And I think it's just, again, confidence, I know I'm a little bit of an outlier. And I think you are too. And I think all my female founders that are at a super high level, my friends who are there,

we are a little bit not nuts. I don't want to say we're nuts. I'm brainwashed myself. You do. I landed in L.A. and I'm like, damn, everyone's good looking. The next day I'm like, I am also good looking. You know what I mean? Somehow I just brainwashed myself.

I will force myself to think it just so I can succeed. And I had a therapist say to me one time about aging because I said to him, I'm really worried about how I'm going to feel at the time I thought it was my 50s. At 60, it's 70. And he goes, you just have to be the best, try to be the best version of yourself. and this is talking physically at that age, you're never going to be 20. If I try to be 20,

if I try to compete with a 20-year-old, I'm never going to do that. And the other thing that happens as you get older, it's become so much more about your health. Now, I want to look good. I mean, I'm vain and all of those things, but I have seen a parent who is larger than life, like, you know, have disease ravage them.

And as you get older, you realize it's about, like, you exercise not because you want to look good. It's because lifting weights is the best thing for your brain, for your heart, you know, like all of those things. So it does shift. And I think, you know, just trying to be the best version of yourself physically, mentally, at the age that you are now. Don't try to compete with somebody that's 20 years younger because you're never going to be able to do that. Yeah, I said to my mom because she loves herself. I don't know how she does it. I said, how do you always like, how are you so confident? She goes, because I'm the best looking 65 year old. What do you mean? Exactly. She had me very early. She had me at 20. So she just has that natural confidence. Some people just have it. I have to brainwash myself. Because naturally, with aging, you're like, oh, am I seen differently? Am I supposed to be at a certain level of success? Am I supposed to be whatever it is? But we all do that. I mean, I still look at my pictures and I'll say, oh my God, look at the lines. What am I going to, you know? I have those moments, especially in L.A., you know, where I'm like, well, do I need to get my eyes done?

And do I need to – by the way, I love plastic surgery. I'm not against any of that. Whatever anybody does or to feel better, I just think that chasing that youth is really, really a slippery slope. I really don't like it. And I don't know why. I've never figured it out when people say, say you're 50 or she's 40. And people go, oh, you look really good for your age. And it's like, what do you mean for your age? Like she's just a beautiful woman. It's not for an age. She's just beautiful. It always just made me feel a little bit.

See, I actually like that when people are like, oh my God, you look amazing. Because I was going to say it to you, but I was like, I can't say it. No, I love it. I'm like, you're right. Do you know what? You know what I mean? But again, as you get older and these, we talked about this earlier on the podcast, is it becomes so much easier and harder.

I mean, I'm not going to tell you. Perimenopause and menopause is not a joke. Yeah. I love my husband. we have the best marriage, I sometimes want to, like, my, you know, like, kill him a little bit. Yeah. And for no reason. I mean, these things happen.

Like, you know, this is not, this transition time for women is real. And, and that's why, you know, CMD is so important. And podcasts like yours are so important because women need to get the right information. We need to talk. We need to have a conversation. You would be shocked. I grew up in the South. And the last time I was there, so many women, their doctors are saying to them,

oh, you know, they're in pari menopause. And no, no, no, no, no. You're not in menopause, so I'm not going to give you HRT. Well, that's bad information. Correct. You know, that's what I'm trying to say. We have to, if we're lucky enough to have a platform like we both do now, it is our goal. It is our life mission to help other women to get the right information out there and our

life experiences. And by the way, I haven't done it all perfectly. I am divorced. I have a, you know, I'm on my second marriage. I, you know, and I'm happy about that. I love my ex-husband. I set him up with his fiancé. You are welcome.

You know, I mean, like, I think we've done it in the right way, but it's been hard. It's not always been easy. Thank you for coming on. I love you so much. I've loved every single conversation that we've had. Thank you so much for having me. Thank you.