Best Friends with Nicole Byer and Sasheer Zamata - Nicole Learns All About Catios (w/ Margaret Cho)

Episode Date: September 10, 2025

Nicole and Sasheer have a very special friend joining them today - comedian extraordinaire Margaret Cho! The trio gets into their preferences on all things haunted, pet psychics, receiving signs in the universe from friends that have passed on, and Nicole's ongoing quest to join Cirque du Soleil.Watch this full video on YouTube and follow below!Follow Nicole: Twitter, Instagram, TikTokFollow Sasheer: Instagram, TikTokLike the show? Rate Best Friends 5 stars on Spotify and Apple Podcasts!Have a friendship question for Nicole and Sasheer to solve? Leave us a voicemail at [phone]‬ or write in at [e-mail] Friends is a production of Headgum Studios. Our producer is Allie Kahan. Our executive producer is Anya Kanevskaya. The show is edited, mixed, and engineered by Casey Donahue.This is a Headgum podcast. Follow Headgum on Twitter, Instagram, and Tiktok. Advertise on Best Friends via Gumball.fm.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This is a headgum podcast. Fall has arrived, and I could definitely use a little wardrobe refresh for the new season, which is why I'm so excited for Macy's VIP fall fashion preview sale. It's 30% off their best brands, plus 15% off beauty. I could use a new coat, and I got my eye on a trench from BCBG. And since it's layer season, I'm going to grab a few sweaters from French. Connection and Carl Lagerfeld might just need to throw in a pair of boots from Frank Osardo. I have a feeling I'll be wearing them all season and then some. Shop at macy's.com

or in store now through October 5th. Sometimes we do that. We have the wonderful Margaret Cho, who's a comedian, actor, musician, advocate, entrepreneur, five-time Grammy and Emmy nominee. And you can see her in season two of Disney's Percy Jackson and the Olympians and in the upcoming film, I Want Your Sex. Margaret is currently embarking on a new stand-up comedy tour called, is it Cholagarky? Choligarchy. Love that. Margaret is currently embarking on a new stand-up comedy tour called. called Cho Lagarki. Tickets are on sale right now. And she's partnered with Goat Song Records

to release six of her very best stand-up comedy specials along with a brand new album called Best in Cho. It's Margaret Cho! Hi, thank you. Thank you. Hi, hi, hi, hi. Thank you for doing this. Thank you. Thank you. I mean, I'm honored to be here. Thank you. Yeah, I'm a big fan. I'm a big fan of yours and yours. I think I told you. I love you so much. I love you both. This is great. This is really great. Let's just jump in. Yeah. Margaret, do you have a best friend? I do. I do. I have two very best friends. Yes. How long have you been friends? How long does this span? One of them I've been friends, best friends with since I think about maybe 1989. Wow. And then I had another best friend. And she, I was best friends with her since

1982 but she died in 2018 so still holding space and then my other best friend i've been probably best friends with him for the last like eight years so a little bit of like a fresh best friend like a very fresh one but still a long time yeah still a long time but yeah what's your ooh you go no i like yours you don't know what mine is but it felt good i like the enthusiasm behind it what's your secret to having friendships that last so long yeah i do like that because i I feel like a lot of people either cycle through friends or, like, don't know how to maintain a friendship. I think, well, we just laugh, you know, and, yeah, my one best friend who I've been friends with for a really long time, he's who's alive. He is a comic.

And so was the girl who died was a comic. And I think that when you're comics, you just, you just laugh, like, there's something about laughter that transcends. pettiness and arguments and like you want to have those like shared private jokes forever i think that's part of the longevity also i'm just not the type of person that cycles through first there is a very famous comedian i'm not going to mention who does that and it's so painful and hurtful because you build i built this like intense connection with her and um i know all these other female comedians she did that too and she'll do it every few years and like she'll get another female comedian who's a best friend for a while and then then they get exed out and it's like so

painful but then you don't know what to say yeah because it's it's hard to because you you don't really get broken up with it's friendship is really hard to codify in like social like hierarchies and also with comics we we lose contact for a long time because we're busy you're busy yeah you're touring, you're working. Yeah. But yeah, that must be so wild to like be very good friends with somebody and then you don't know what you did.

Yeah, like you didn't do anything. Yeah. But they've like, it's like they changed their number. It's very someone I used to know by Gotchi. It's very that. It's that feeling of like

you didn't have to do all that. Like, why did you do all that? Like it's weird. But really this one person, I idolized her for years. I still do. There's nothing that's going to go away, I still love her, but it's like, wow, it's so weird. And maybe because she's super famous, that's an oddly part of it, but also I don't buy it.

It's weird. It's also weird because it's like, you don't know if you should bring it up because it's like, well, I guess friendships fizzle out sometimes, but it's also weird for it to like stop. And it's like, do I really want to like call this person into my office and be like, hey, I need to be a better friend if they already kind of don't want to be a better friend? Right. There's nothing. I mean, it's so embarrassing, too, to kind of confront it as a friendship thing. I kind of, I sort of struggle with it. And now I'm like, I just let it go. It's just weird. But I know that now I'm good friends with all the girls she did it too. That's right. The rejects. The rejects.

It's like those Facebook groups where it's like, I date this man has anybody else? Yeah. And then like a bunch of girls are like, I did. You're like just trauma bonding together. It's like the T app. What's the T app? The T app is like that Facebook group. but come to an app, and it just got hacked, so it's actually terrible because a bunch of men, like, found that they were on there. But it's an app where you can rate all the men that you dated, and you upload pictures of them, and then you give them, like,

not exactly like a star rating, but you kind of put up the red flag. Like, this guy has STDs, this guy's married, this guy's a cheater, this guy love bomb, like all this stuff, which is really good. And then you can actually also, through the app, look up their, like, past convictions. Oh, great. So it's really, it's really good. Yeah. But it just got hacked by a bunch of, like, in cells who then took all the women's information and made, like, a clickable map where you could harass them at home.

Oh, my gosh. It's a very, it's dangerous. Like, we can't have anything. Women can't have anything. Apparently. No. That sucks. My God.

That sucks. Yeah. I mean, yeah, I'm sure they were, like, the in cells were like, oh, they can't be talking about. men like this where it's like it's really just for safety actually it's totally for safety women to like cross-reference valuable information yeah it's like then it's like then you were like that's not right you're putting men's information out there so I'm gonna put your information out there to harass you yeah like that's so boy oh boy my mind is rocked yeah we can have anything that's so wild I hate it but it was helpful when it was going

because there was a couple of people like couple of guys that I saw on there who had been in my DMs, and I'm like, oh, I had no idea that she would never know. Yeah. Because, you know, these guys are just like, they will operate with impunity with terrible behavior, spreading their nasty STD, spreading all of their like just bad vibes everywhere. Because it's not, like, the STD thing I think is criminal. That could go into criminal. But other things, like just being a cheater, I don't think exactly is criminal.

But it feels nasty. That's nice to know about it. Yeah. It's good to know. And if like three women can corroborate? Yeah. Yes. Yeah.

Yep. I didn't know if it was going to come out right? Yeah. Corroborate? Yes. Have you ever gotten any info before the T app, but like in real life, any info on somebody you were dating or someone who was in your life, but that you like ignored the red flags? Yeah.

And I was really, I really regret. it. Yeah. Like, I really regret I should have, I should have listened. But, you know, sometimes that dick get to your brain. Yeah, you get dignmatized. It's real. All the way to your brain.

And it's like, I think it just got to like my brain stem. Yeah. And it really messes you up. Yeah. And I didn't see. And I should, like there was one, and it was a comic. And she was like, she cannot date that guy. She cannot.

She can't. You know, to somebody else, just saying, like, no, you don't understand she just can't. And she was so right. Yeah. I was so, I was, I got to listen to women comedians. Yeah. She's got to listen to women in general. All the time.

I have ignored red flags with men so many times, but also with, like, friendships. I've, like, been friends of people who, at the beginning of the friendship, I'm like, huh, you're kind of mean to me. Yeah. You're kind of, you're kind of not nice. You kind of make me feel bad. but I'm going to persevere and you're going to be my friend and then like years later

I'm like why am I doing this why am I just letting this person talk to me like that and then you have to have a friendship breakup or you just like you know fizzle out yeah that's an interesting one because it's like

why do we do that to ourselves I think it's I don't know we think that something about the relationship should be painful in order to be worthwhile because I know exactly what that is

because it's like I like people who kind of bust my ball Like, I think it's kind of fun when somebody's, like, making fun of you and it's funny. But when I come away feeling bad, it's weird. It's like, what is that about? Like, I am attracted to that. I am definitely attracted to that in romantic relationships as well. It's a little bit like, oh, that hard one affection.

I don't like it when somebody loves me too much. Yeah. Yeah, it's suspicious. What do you like me so much? I'm garbage. Yeah. Well, maybe you stop talking about yourself like that. Yeah, it's weird.

It's like, I don't know what that is, but I also, you know, am just, I have been, like, seduced by people who are so nice, and then I think they're just super cool. So then I want to be, and then I did that with this one girl, you know, she was really fun and cool and interested, and she ended up suing me. That's not nice at all. No, and it was so weird because it wasn't really anything that. I could fight, it was just like, she ended up suing me. It was actually really inappropriate, but I had to pay because it was more trouble to fight it than actually, you know, like,

and I didn't, it wasn't even a fight. It was just that I kind of ghosted her because I was like, so I didn't, I had bad, bad vibes. I didn't want to deal with it. I inserted it. And then I just kind of like, and she kept on trying to talk, kept on trying to talk. I was like, you know, I don't want to. And then in order to get my attention, she sued me. that's the wrong kind of attention it's not like you're gonna be like oh you know what I miss you I'm sorry I'll see you in court

after this is wrapped up it's so weird but you know I didn't I also thought a little bit in the back of my mind this is going too well she's too nice

that was right that was a good intuition that you know came a little too late um that's a bad memory of friendship do you have like what's your favorite memory of friendship um i think my favorite memory of friendship uh was uh i think one time so my friend and i were looking for this haunted house in beachwind canyon and it was like the middle of the night and we're driving and uh we were like trying to find where it was we just wanted to drive by it just to see, and we're trying to find it, we're trying to find it, and they're like,

and we remembered, okay, there's a statue of the Virgin Mary right in front, and then we're like looking, and then he, like, turned over, and then he turned the car, like, the light on in the car, he opened the door a little bit, and the Virgin Mary statue was, like, right in the window, and we both, I heard a scream, and I screamed, and we drove away really fast, and And then I was yelling at him like, why did you scream? Why did you? He's like, girl, I didn't scream. And it was so funny because it was like, it was like a ghostly scream from outside that we reacted to.

So all this time, like, I'm like, I think you screamed. I think you were the one that screamed. So I just think it's such a funny thing of like ghost chasing with your friend in the middle of the night. It just always brings back a kind of a warm feeling. It's like, you know, it's just so silly. Yeah. Have you done that?

Do you do spookyookies? I don't like actual haunted houses. I don't like being scared. But I have done a couple times this thing where it's like an immersive theater experience where it's like a house that you are being led by an actor who's in character. Like, all the patients in the psych ward escaped. We got to find out who did it or whatever. And then you're like, okay.

And they're like chasing them in the house and crawling under beds and stuff. That I can do because I know this is. controlled. I don't want things of popping out at me. Yeah, I don't like a, um, a fun house scary, like a haunted house. Not like a haunted, like a paranormal house. I mean, we went to haunted hay ride, which is not, children are there. It's not even that scary. It's not scary, though. Like, if somebody's jumping out, like that's always, it's still scary. Yeah. Yeah. I don't, and I don't like that. It's not good for my nervous system. No, it's, it's definitely scary. Yeah. But it is fun to watch you scream and run away from haunted houses.

For people I know are just actors. It's so funny to me. In high school, we used to drive into the woods to find, like, the Jersey devil or something. I don't know. I wasn't, like, listening to the lore. I was just, like, happy to be included and drive into the woods. And it was always so scary because you would, like, hear things. You'd be like, oh, my God, is that the Jersey devil?

Oh, my gosh. And then sometimes we were drink and do it. Good time. It's just so fun to like get out there. And the woods are always really scary because it's just dark and weird. And who's out there? Nobody knows. It's fun.

You know, like, when it comes to like real, like, paranormal stuff, I am welcoming of that. But if it's like a haunted situation or like, you know what? Maybe it's humans, I don't trust. Yeah. But if it's like ghosts or aliens or something like that, I'm like, yeah. Well, bring the energy in here. Yeah, there's something that's just kind of beautiful about that. But also, like, I went to Zach Began's, like, Haunted Museum in Las Vegas,

and I found that really stressful because it's, like, all of, like, the cursed objects. And I don't, I think most of it is, like, really, it's all kind of made up because it's all just branding. Like, it's all branding for his, like, Ghost Adventures TV show and everything. But it's still scary when you see, like, the dolls. in like a case and there's like a weird like monitor to sort of talk

here you can hear the spirit box they talk to you through the spirit box when you walk by and they'll say stuff to you and it's a little scary

it's scary and it's like and that's it like dark it's very dark inside and so my friend one of my friends she died last year one of her jewelry boxes

that she died next to now is the new exhibit there So I got to go and see because, you know, she died and it's like, well, it's now I have a friend that may be haunting the place. So I'm kind of curious about that. Like I have quite a few really good friends who have died. And that's like a weird thing too because like, well, my best friend, when she died, it was so weird because I really, I still have kind of some trouble thinking about it. It's the strangest thing when somebody that you're like really best friends with is now on the other side. Yeah.

It's very like, you know, and for a long time, I kind of felt her presence around. I really don't anymore. But every once in a while, there's something that will make me think, oh, she's right there. That's nice, though. Yeah, it is nice. Yeah, I like that. I like that. When I die, I plan on working over time to haunt.

You have to. I want to haunt so much and so bad. It's so fun. It's so fun. Like the idea of like going up to people. people that you know you love or even that you don't and just kind of messing with them. It's so cute. Like pushing over pictures of myself. Oh, cute.

And I'm like, that's definitely her. Remember me. It's adorable. I think that's a, yeah, there's something really beautiful and sweet about that. Yeah, we have a friend who passed a couple years ago and a lot of people in our friend group are like they feel like they've seen signs, like the electricity being crazy or, you know, flowers blooming or dragonflies or whatever, you know, do you feel like you've after a friend has passed

that you, like, would feel signs or see signs or, like, wish that these were signs? Yeah, yeah. You know, there's just like a hugely, like a real warmth. So I was good friends with Jill Sobule who died in May.

And so we did a benefit concert for her. It's called Gillith Fair. They do a bunch of them over this summer. But the first one that we did, we all were on the stage and the whole audience were singing

one of her big hits Underdog Victoria's and I I hadn't cried you know since her death because I was just in shock and when everybody started singing it was the whole room was singing it

I really felt her presence and I really was crying because I was thinking she would have been like so excited to see a whole room of people singing this song you know and so that was when I really I felt her presence more than ever just with the exuberance and excitement of people

just all like belting out this song of hers and how excited she would have been and how excited I was for her to have that moment. It was really, really nice. Yeah, it's beautiful. I also think there's something to, like, a group of people gathered, like using their energy towards another person, they can feel it.

Yeah, yeah. Like they're all fans or friends, and it's just really, it's really beautiful. So it's just really gave me a lot of peace, you know, saying goodbye to her because it was just actually very, her circumstances were really actually really terrible. So this was a really a peaceful thing. I want that. I want so many things when I die.

I want to haunt. I want people to gather and say things I say. She also has a long list of things we're going to do when she passes, like, in her will, like instructions. Oh, really? Oh, good. You put them all together. You wrote it all out. And it legally cannot be enforced because you can't force anybody to do anything in your will. Oh, really?

Yeah. Oh, well. But it does say, please do it. I'd really like it if you did this. Mine have financial incentives. Oh. So I wrote in like, if you do this, you'll get this amount of money. Legally, you can't enforce that.

Oh, okay. I thought that the money would be kind of like, oh, they'll do it. I think they'll do it because they're friends with you. Yeah, they'll probably do it because they're friends with you. But I think the money is like a little added. bonus like oh how fun see that's smart there are no financial incentives in life it's just like hey please do this please do that it have to do it yeah right that's how I feel you know it's just nice you know what's scary there's a comedian who bought the Annabelle doll I saw that why did he do that

I don't know it's so wild to me not like gaw there's a like you would think they would be like a Who's a goth comic? Like Noel Fielding. Is that a goth comic? Like, who's a goth comic? I think that's a gothy comic. Yeah, but you would think that, because I don't think that the guy that bought it.

No. It's particularly goth. It's not their brand. It's not their brand. And neither is elf. So I don't know what he's doing. It's weird. But he's fine.

That commercial was really wild. I watched it. I was like, huh? Why? Very interesting. I don't know why. But, you know, whatever. But yeah, I think it's scary because that doll.

That dog. killed its handler. Yeah, don't buy that doll. No. Let Annabelle live somewhere away. In the woods. Yeah, but her in the woods.

I don't put her whatever if she wants to be. Don't put her on tour. She doesn't want to go on tour. No, she really doesn't. She was doing a lot of wild things. She's like, she doesn't want to go on tour. Just do what she wants.

She wants to just live behind Plexiglass. Yeah. And away from humans. Away from anybody handling her. Like, let her have what she wants. Say, it's very, it's a little bit messed up. I don't know why she's got to go everywhere. I don't know.

I don't need to see her. And I would like to not. Do people coming to these shows know that this is going to happen? I don't know. I don't know if he's bringing her with him on shows. Okay. I think he bought the, he bought the doll and then bought the museum of the two paranormal investigators. Oh, Ed and Lorraine Warren.

Yeah, yeah. So, yeah. so he just has he's going to be well maybe that is good then maybe he's just containing the doll in one place maybe he's actually saving us so maybe that's uh maybe that's positive you know so could be a good thing who knows i don't think i just don't think it's going to be a good thing i'm scared yeah i'm also scared concerned oh boy let's go to a break We deliver science-backed, personalized vitamin packs that make daily wellness simple and convenient in just minutes. You get a plan tailored to your health goals, no clutter, no guesswork, just grab and go packs designed by experts.

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So I'm going to get on a nice regimen. Is that what a word I can say? a plan. I'm going to get on a plan with my vitamins. Go to personanutrition.com slash best friends today to take the free assessment and get your personalized daily vitamin packs. And for an exclusive offer, get 40% off your first order. That's personautrition.com slash best friends. Take the free assessment now. Oh boy. That was spooky.

Margaret, what's the best piece of advice that you've received about friendship? I don't know. I think it's just really that they're really the best part of life. I mean, that we really should enjoy that, you know, enjoy the connection that you have with people. And if you feel something really try to build on it, you know, and invest. in that, to invest in your friendships, because that's what's worthwhile. So I think that that's probably it, but it's not as concrete. You don't get as much advice about friendship as you do about, like, romance.

It's true. Somehow, romance is like the primary relationship that we're always focused on. Always, though, it always is terrible. I've never had a good one. Not one. I've had one good one. And I do think it's interesting that we uphold romantic relationships. relationships more than friendships because like friendships are the I feel like they're the the foundation of life like that's your community that's where you fellowship that's where like the people support you and I think you're right nobody really gives you advice on how to keep those those connections alive yeah yeah that's wild kind of what we were talking about earlier with like you know talking to a friend who maybe like ghosted you or needs to be talked to I think there's less of an incentive to have hard

conversations with friends because that's expected for like a romantic relationship like you know you're supposed to go to therapy together like learn how to communicate build upon your relationship but like for some reason those people don't think those tools are necessary for a friendship when it is this is also a relationship this is also like something that you would want to grow and foster and supposed to like grow within it but for some reason there's like less of a thought to do that and it's easier to be like I just want to talk to them they did they did this thing I don't like and I won't talk to them or like I guess it's done as opposed to let me say how I feel. Yeah. And we can actually maybe work on this, you know? Yeah. Yeah. I mean,

it's, I think the only time that you maybe bring in like a therapist is like if you're in a band or I've heard podcast hosts. Oh. Oh. Do you go to therapy? We could. I do know people who have had therapy sessions with their friends, not necessarily like a whole. whole like they go to therapy continuously to each other but they've like dropped in and had a couple sessions together and it's been worthwhile because like sometimes you do need a mediator to be like okay here's what I'm actually hearing from both of you as opposed to you two just like hitting the same wall over and over again yeah yeah there's something to that that is helpful the only time I had I had couple's therapy one time with my ex-husband which was very advantageous

because he and I my husband and I hated the therapist and so we were likely like making fun of him and that brought us closer because we were laughing about it so much that it was really it actually made it work so I don't know if that was the intention at the therapist whatever you need yeah that's what you take yeah I do think that helps strengthen relationships like if you guys dislike the same thing or same person it for some reason that makes you like okay now we're we're the smart we're like connected but it's like Again, it's like laughter. Lafter will bring you together, which is why I'm always, like, friends with comics or people who are funny in general because it's just, that's the thing.

It's the thing that kind of brings you back. Definitely. That and truly a mutual hate of something. Yeah. I love hating on things with a friend. Oh, it brings me such joy. We have a friend Mateo who is like, oh, just a quintessential hater. He hates in a way that is so creative sometimes.

Sometimes I'll say something, I'm like, Mateo. You see the comedians? Yeah, I love him. He's hilarious. He's hilarious. He's hilarious. Yeah. Oh, and I love it when he doesn't like something.

It's great. There's just a poetry when a gay comic doesn't like something. Yes. Absolutely. It's also just like, even if I'm not friends with a comic or like good friends, like, even if, you know, we somehow riff on something we don't like together, it still feels good. Like I went to the, we went to the opera together. years ago and I got locked out because I went to the bathroom and there was no intermission so I had to go to this little like room on the side where you can watch the performance

on screen and then Nick Turner was also in there and we just like it was just the two of us and we were just like shitting on the show the whole time like for an hour together and it was so fun was I there you were there so I left you and I was locked in and I was like when will she come back I couldn't oh my god like what hello but they were at Lincoln Center yeah Why do we go to the opera? I think we had a friend who was, like, connected to the show or something. I don't think she was in the show, but she, like, was giving tickets away. And I think she also gave tickets to Nick at the same time.

But we were, like, in different sections and then... I'm glad we went. Yeah, I have it, too. We should go again to the opera. I don't know. Well, we should go to one that has an intermission that will... Yes, where you can get back in. Yeah.

But, yeah, it is nice to, like, find a comic and be like, okay, well, I know you have thoughts about it. about this. Is there always going to be able to share something? It's always going to be an adverse opinion. It's always going to be negative. And I love that. Yeah, a little negative, a little dark.

And you're like, mm-hmm, yum, yum, yum. I love that. Yeah. When you tour, do you take comics with you to open for you? Like, do you take friends with you? Yeah, I take, just take one person. I take Daniel Webb, who's hilarious. Oh, very funny.

He's so funny and so much fun. And, you know, we've been doing it for five years, which is great. Oh, amazing, yeah. Really, it makes it so much better when you have somebody there who's hilarious, who's so much fun, and that you are friends with that you can just hang out with, and then it's so easy. Because traveling is stressful, and you don't know, you don't have any control over anything. So it's great to just have that person there.

It's hard. I have a hard time just going on my own. And also, whenever I go to a place, like I don't want somebody random in the town just opening for me to. So I don't know what they're going to do. I trust this person's sense of humor. They're going to do well. Yeah. Yeah, it makes it very comfortable.

Yeah, it makes it easy for me. So that, to me, feels really good. Yeah, I like that. Because I've had random people open for me, and then I look at them on stage, and I'm like, oh, no, I don't think you can do that joke. Oh, no. Oh, that's offensive. It's so bad. It's like, so you just can't trust it.

You know. Do you and Daniel explore the towns that you go to? Yeah, sometimes. I mean, I'm lazy. I'm so, I love to lay down in the hotel. I've seen everything, so I don't care. But every once in a while, there'll be something like if it's a funeral museum, I'll get up and I'll go, like, because I love a death, anything.

I love a goth, anything. So, you know, every once in a while, I'll be, like, able to get up and go. But it's very, it's very rarely. That's fun. Sometimes I'll explore the town. A lot of times I'm like you. Let me just lay down in the hotel. and have a nice time in the hotel.

I love to lay in that bed or whatever. Like, I just, I'm such a laydown lady. Yeah. I think it depends. I was just in Montreal for work, and I was doing so much stuff. I would never, usually not that active. I, like, went to Starge Soleil. Wow.

I went to the movies by myself. Fun. What did you say? Fantastic Four. Nice. Yeah. Was it fantastic? For you?

For me? Yes, exactly. Exactly. Kind of massage. Yeah. It depends. But also, I do love a hotel and being inside. That's ambitious, though. That's good. You did a lot of stuff. I did do a lot of stuff. Yeah, that's cool. I mean, I think, like, if I go to a festival, like that, like, for Just for Laps or whatever, I like it because I'm getting to see other comics that I don't see all the time.

Yeah, that is nice. So then it's nice to hang out with comics that you never see because we're always working. So festival is good for that, you know, just to hang out with different people. But yeah, normally I wouldn't, like, normally I just, like, lay there. And that's totally fine, too. But also, it's a lot. Like, if you're doing, like, a club, then that's, like, two shows. And if you're doing a theater, that's one show, but with more people.

Yeah. So it feels like you're doing two shows. Yeah, it's a big, like, energy. It's a lot of energy to put on. I don't know. So I also went to Provincetown, and I was doing a theater that was kind of big. But then I have so many friends there. You know, Provincetown is just where all the drag shows are on the summer.

So it's all of my different, like, friends from the drag world that I never get. They work hard, harder than anybody. Yes, they really do. Because they're doing the shows, and they're carrying their costumes and makeup and wigs from city to city. And they're doing the drag, which is another, like, three hours a day. Yeah. They're, like, so, so, so busy. Yeah.

Very skilled. Yeah. when you're looking for well not necessarily looking for a new friend but like if a new person comes into your ether and you're like ooh this could be a new friend like what qualities are you spotting in them that

feel very attractive? I think just laughter is always it. Laughter yeah laughter is kind of like the key to sort of unlock anything if somebody's like making me laugh then I'm just like oh I'm hooked like I want more of that I want to feel what that is I want to see

more of that I want to do more of that So that is usually the thing that draws me in, more than anything else. You know, if I'm laughing, then I'm following. Yeah. I'm guessing you have non-comedian friends, too. Yeah, yeah. Do you ever... I'm guessing.

I'm guessing. I mean, some people don't. But do you find it easy to mix the non-comedian friends with comedians? Or do you have, like, a separate... Yeah, we can definitely be done. I mean, it's not in general, though. I like to sort of be with like the friend, my friend, I'm like more like a one on one kind of person instead of having, I don't really have like parties anymore. I don't really have like dinner parties anything like that anymore. Um, as a rule or just like it's just happen where I don't extend myself in that way anymore. So it's more just like I like to go out to dinner with somebody. I like to hang out with one person. Um, I don't really have like sort of entertaining groups of people. Yeah. I get that. I get exhausting. Get out of my house. Yeah. I don't let people in. inside my house.

Well, I have so many cats. Stay outside. Yeah, it's too many. I have so many cats. I don't, they don't like anybody to come home around. How many cats do you have? I have three cats. So they're my friends too, so I can't, like, infringe on their lives as much.

That makes sense. I went to a pet psychic, and the pet psychic told me that my dog does not like when people are in the house. Oh, really? Interesting. He would prefer that I entertain them outside. Oh. And I was like, well, okay.

Wow. And the pet psychic said that he wanted to taste eggs And every time I get eggs, I give him eggs And he's so excited That's so cute Yeah, I don't know She was like, I don't know why he wants eggs But he wants eggs

That's good And then truly every time I give him a little scrambled egg He like does a little circle And it's like his smile That's beautiful I believe that pet psychic I do I do.

I believe them Yeah I believe them too That's why he gets eggs now That's so cute But we have to like give them their like space So yeah For sure

Yeah, I feel like there was like a cat whisperer who had a show. I don't remember his name, but. Is it, oh, Jackson Galaxy. That sounds great. He's like a good name. Jackson Galaxy or Caesar? Cat Daddy or Caesar? Oh, no, he's the dog.

Wait, that's sorry. Jackson Galaxy is the cat. He's like the cat daddy. Ooh, maybe. And he does a lot of like cat behavioral issues. Yeah. He's really, he's actually really good. Well, maybe this is the same person, but whoever it was was, like, explaining to these owners, like, is less the Caesar way of, like, you know, let's train your dog so that you're the alpha.

It's more like, how can we make your space in a way that your cats like it? Like, your cats are going to be cats. They're going to like what they like. How do we adjust your whole life to fit what they need? Which you have to do. I mean, I have a full cationo because they can't go outside because of their. There's coyotes in my neighborhood. Yeah.

So I have huge, like, outdoor space for them where they can go and they're totally safe. Yeah. You know, and all of my house also, there's, like, stuff built into the wall so they can climb up. Oh, I love that. They have every few feet, there's scratchers and there's cat trees, and, you know, my house is more for them than me. That sounds right. I like that. Is your house more for your cat or for you?

Well, I just got a cat. Oh, congratulations. Thank you very much. So I'm trying to figure that out, actually. It is my first cat I've ever had in my life. And we do have scratchers and, like, toys and things. But I do want to figure out a cation situation because he keeps longingly looking out at the window.

And, like, clearly you want to go out there, but I don't want to just, like, let you lose. I can't. No, the cateo is a great thing to have. Even if you have just, like, a balcony or something, and you can just net in. something. Also, there's like these zippery things that you can get that have like tunnels that you can just like let them go in

and put it outside while you're outside. So it has the they can have the open air but they're not actually outside. Yeah. What is a catio? It's a little like outdoor enclosure so the cats can't actually

go out into the wilderness but they can be safe inside of an enclosure so safe from predatory animals like coyotes and stuff like that so it's like a like an outdoor enclosure like a deck that's yeah like netting or something okay like a patio like a patio like a patio so you can just net it in you can't say that because a lot of patios are not enclosed yeah you're right I can't say that you simply cannot describe it how dare I because I've seen so many patios that are just open that are just open to the world you're so true so true

True. But you just enclose it. Even if you put like a little like tunnel, like a netted tunnel, they get so excited. They love to just be outside. Have you ever had like kind of a issue with a friend or a partner, romantic partner, with your pets? Like did you ever meet someone where you're like, oh, it's going so well? And then they like come over and like either they have an issue. you with your cats or your cats have issued with that person.

Oh, well, this was like 25 years ago and one guy actually was like so mean to one of my dogs that I kicked him out. Like it was like, I didn't even know that he had it in him. But he was like me and I'm like, goodbye. Like I'm sorry. That's wild. To be mean to an animal? To be mean to a dog like, and he was like, well, she chewed up your.

shoes and those were like $300 and I'm like I don't care. Yeah, that's your It's my responsibility. Like that's, you get to choose how you handle that. But it was like shocking. It's like no, get out. Like it was like, no, you're not going to be even, don't even be rude. Don't even be short. Yeah. Don't even be, I mean

these are extensions of me. Yeah. So I couldn't yeah. But that's the only thing. I don't think that there's ever been an issue other than that because I My pets are like my children. I mean, even, you know, I don't even know more than that. So I don't, I couldn't, I don't know if I could even entertain a thought of, like, anybody even being rude or not liking them, not loving them.

Yeah. I mean, yeah, some people just don't like animals or like we don't want to be around them. Which is crazy to me. That's so weird, though. Like, to me, the animals are like the best part of life. So you would want, I mean, cats, if they don't like you, they'll just stay away. So, but my cats are always in everybody's business. They're always playing everybody's face.

Yeah. They just want something from everybody. So I don't know. And then this dog, like, really loves people too. So I don't know. It's very odd when people don't like animals. But yeah. Yeah.

I feel like there's something wrong with people who don't like animals. It's creepy. I mean, I guess I get it if they're allergic, but. Yes. Yeah. I'm slightly allergic, but it doesn't, I don't mind. my mom was scared of dogs yet would walk her best friend's dog and she would just scream as she walked the dog which in hindsight I was like that's crazy just don't walk the dog but she like really wanted to not be scared of this it was a tiny poodle yeah and my mother was a bigger woman just screaming walking this little white poodle and it was always very funny to me but yeah do you think she ever got like bit or something when she was younger Or saw something to happen?

Maybe. Maybe she was bit as a child. Yeah. But it's great that she wanted to get over it. She tried so hard. She never did. Always screaming with this little dog. That's very funny.

My partner has a German Shepherd, and that I was, like, overwhelmed because she likes to be in everybody's business, too, and, like, very energetic. And I was like, ha. Okay. Good girl. But now we're best season. She's very sweet. Did she get along with a cat?

She does, yeah. She has lived with other cats before, too. So, yeah, we, I guess we were, like, we hope she doesn't get too excited around the cat. But the cat, like, very quickly was like, oh, this is my house. Yeah, the thing is cats really establish dominance for the most part, which is really good. Yeah, so really now we have to get the cat to be, like, more chill around the dog. That's funny. That's so cute.

I think it's funny that cats domesticated themselves. They were like, those humans have food. It's smart. All right. I'll be nice. Yeah. Yeah. I was like lay here and then you'll feed me and clean up my poop and pet me.

They're the boss. I love it. They're the best. But yet a cationo is a really great thing for them because, you know, also even like just a tree by the window. Yeah. You know, like a cat tree right, you know, so that they feel like they're outside. It's enough. That's a great idea.

Get a bird feeder out there, you know. Oh my gosh. It's crazy. They love it so much. Yeah. Yeah. I do you need to add some architecture to make this guy happy. It's fun.

I love that part of having a cat to just like incorporate their needs into your life. It's really special. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I would love to sit in a tree by a window. We should take a break. And we're back. And we're back.

What was the last time you sat in a tree? When I was a kid? Yeah. Katie Zikowski, I think that was her name. She had a big tree in her backyard, and it was like a weeping willow, and we would climb it. And I remember once I climbed it, and then I fell out of it, and I fell on my back, and I got the wind knocked out of me. I think that was the last time I climbed a tree. Yeah, that makes sense.

Pretty dangerous. Yeah. Like, if you think about any sort of head injury, oh, my gosh. Yeah. That's pretty scary. Yeah. But I was fine. Yeah, look at you now.

Look at me now. I'm fine. That's the last time you were in a tree. Gosh, I don't think I've... I don't think I've ever climbed a tree. I don't think I ever have. I'm not a thrill seeker. I'm not a, yeah, you know, not a daredevil.

Yeah. When I was a kid, I was a daredevil. Okay. Which is, is it with mud? Mud and water? and you put them in the sort of plates that made in mud pie, I definitely rolled down a hill

but I don't think I've ever climbed a tree. I think I would get in trouble. Have you? I have, yeah, my neighbor, I guess there was a tree in between my yard and my neighbor's yard. And same thing, it was like a huge tree and then one of the parents

made like a little swing situation off of a branch. See, that's nice. And it was like really long, I don't know what kind of tree it was, but it was like long horizontal branches. So like sometimes there be many kids in the tree just like laying, down it was really nice. That's really cute. Yeah. But it's also it's yeah to me it's like very like

I would get in trouble. If I would get if I was up there I would get I would get in trouble. Were your parents really strict? Well they yeah they would just like very I think they were overly like tired and overly like so they would get mad if you did anything like like like like screamed and ran and like so you couldn't couldn't really do that kind of stuff like we had to be just like a very low key household. Your parents would have hated me. I was the loudest child, I think, on the ball. I was so loud. I was always screaming.

I was always doing something. Yeah, it's like we just couldn't really express ourselves in that manner. And so, like, climbing a tree would just be very, yeah, no, you're going to get in trouble. Do you feel like you expressed any of that energy outside of the household? Like, were you, like, secretly screaming with your friends? Yeah, we were just like, yeah, doing drugs. I think that's probably the most secret scream of all of like going and like smoking cigarettes

Like I was a bad I was a bad kid for sure Like smoking cigarettes at like eight Whoa that eight Where'd you even get cigarettes? My dad My dad's cigarettes like being on the corner Smoking cigarettes but then being super quiet In the house

Because you just had to sort of let it out somehow So it definitely was a rebellious kid But not in front of anybody So is that rebellion? I don't know I guess it's for yourself Yeah. Personal rebellion, yeah. Yeah.

We used to swing at recess and scream fuck at the top of our lungs. And then we go back to class and be like, oh, my God. We were all saying fuck a minute ago. On the swings. You're not really sure where the sound's coming from? Is that it? Yeah. Because it was like, is it me?

Is it the person swinging over there? Could be anybody. You don't know. And the sound is like the effect of the sound. You don't know where the waves are coming. That's funny. That's funny. Yeah, good times.

I'm trying to think I don't even know if I was bad in secret No Yeah I don't think I don't think I was bad At all You I think followed rules

I did I mean even now You follow the rules Mm-hmm You love a rule I love a rule Yeah I feel like I feel like

I feel like me and my mom Was breaking rules And she was like You can You don't have to be So dutiful And I'm like No I am

I have to I remember like I was Tired from volleyball And all the clubs I do and et cetera So many clubs And I was like

doing my homework on my bed and I fell asleep on my homework and my mom was like, why you just quit something? And I was like, how dare you? Quit? I'm not a quitter. I do everything to the best of my ability. Then I burnt out. It's like a type A type A like overachiever. Yeah, 100%. It's intense. It's definitely chilled out more. But yeah, there was like a few rounds of burnout where it's like, oh, I don't have to do this to myself. I could just live a life and still be really good at it. That's good. I mean, I don't, I'm so lazy. I can't do anything. I like really don't. I do the very bare minimum. Yeah. Everything, which is like, I just like barely alive. I just take just enough breaths every minute to just keep alive. Yeah. Well, I feel like the older you get, the more you're like,

wait a minute. I can't. I don't have to do all of this. Yeah. Nor can I do all of this. Yeah. I mean, it would be better if I did. I think it would be better if I would. more energetic and more, like, enthusiastic or ambitious about things, but I'm just not, which is not good. Yeah, but you say you're lazy, but you still, like, you have a ton of comedy specials and you're touring and, like, you are ambitious. You do a lot to have. That's true.

That's true. I guess it doesn't feel like it, because it was like comedy is such a, to me it's pretty effortless, which is weird to say, but, like, I think people have an assumption about comics, like, that it's hard. What's hard is, like, traveling. Yeah, for sure. And, like, going and doing shows and, and, doing that's hard but like really like just to come up with things and just to be a comedian is

actually not that hard I think yeah I'm sure also like it just feels secondhand after after years long yeah yeah like over time like if you're just like going and doing sets and like kind of coming up with material and doing shows there's something about but there's something very very simple about that that's kind of like easy and then but the rest of it is hard like the actually like going on tour or like coming up with like ideas for what the tour is going to be called and, you know, trying to figure out where to go and what to do that. That can take a lot. But the rest of it is, like, pretty easy. Yeah. Yeah. I think once you get in the rhythm of writing jokes, it becomes, you know, second nature. The man at Starbucks, the Starbucks I go to, he was

like, hey, how do I become a comic? I hear you're a comic. And I was like, well, you go to open mics. And he was like, really? That's it. And I was like, yeah, but like, you'll see. You'll see that it's not just that's it. If you go to open mics, like you write a bunch of jokes, you try out the jokes, whatever works, works, and then you keep doing those, and then the things that don't work, you cross those out, but put in new jokes. And then you keep doing that for the rest of your life. Yep. Yeah.

It is funny that it's like an art form that no one can, like, show you how to do it. You just have to do it. And then figure out what works for you. But see if you like it. Yeah. like it. It's like that that's the hard things. Like most people don't like it because they think, oh, I can be fun. I think anybody can be funny around their friends. Anybody can be funny for a little bit. But not anybody can be funny every day on demand the same time every day for two hours a day for exactly the amount of time that you need it, for exactly the different audiences that you're going to be in front of. It's like such a challenge to actually do it like and monetize the career of it. It's not about being funny. Yeah. It's so much more than that.

It's like being funny, yeah, that's part of it. But it's not the most important part, which is weird. Yeah, because I've met a lot of people who think they're very funny and they'll say something and then they'll like laugh after it. And I, in my brain have to go, oh, you thought that was funny. Yeah. Oh, I can, I can, ha ha, ha. Oh, ha. I'll help you out.

Yeah. Well, like, I can see why you thought that was fun. but really what it is is just cheap or it's boring or it's been said or somebody else said it you're just repeating it or it was funny in your head and then you said it out loud but you left out the funny part do you know what I mean it's like you're recanting something or recounting something that happened and you're telling it but you're missing the part that was funny it's so sad when people think it's so sad it really is sad like it's like okay like it's just sad and I always Oh, yeah. Like, I always try to be supportive. Same. And sometimes I get confused when people

think they're funny and they're not funny. Because I'm like, you can just not be funny. Yeah, it's not a requirement for people to be funny. It's just a, it's, it, it is an attractive trade in times. But, you know, ultimately it's, for more, normal people, it doesn't really matter. Yeah. Does your family think you're funny? No. No, they don't think I'm funny. but they are kind of funny on their own. They are, but they're not when they're trying to be funny. They are actually very unintentionally, really hilarious. But they don't, I think for me, it's a little bit of a language gap.

Like they kind of don't fully understand, and then they don't want to understand, too, the step they don't really get, and they don't think that it's right. So I feel like they intentionally do not think I'm funny. That's inherently funny. Does your family think you're funny? I actually don't know. I think some of them think I'm funny, but when I first got into comedy, they were like, when did you think you were funny? Like, we never heard a joke out of you ever.

But that's because I would, like, save them for my friends and be really shy around my family. So, yeah, I think at first they were like, I'm confused. But then when I started actually booking jobs, they were like, we always knew. We've always thought you were hilarious. Yeah. Does your family think you're funny? I don't know. my grandpa he does think I'm funny

he thinks I'm very very funny he'll laugh at things I say my uncle came and saw me do stand up years and years and years ago and he went oh huh and then my cousin was like the people seem to like you and I was like well that means you didn't and then my aunts and uncles up until like last year have asked me when I was gonna like go back to college Oh, wow.

And I was like, I think I'm doing okay. Yeah, you're doing great. I mean, totally in a career. That's so, yeah, it's so weird that they don't think this is a real job, especially because you're so famous and you're working all the time. Like, it's like, what is that? It's a weird assumption. Yeah.

Well, I'm not in Tyler Perry things. So I think once I get in a Tyler Perry movie, then they'll be like she's successful. Yeah. Yeah. And that's true. And that actually is true. Sashir, don't support my family on that. Just be my friend.

No, you are successful already. But also, Tyler Perry things are really successful. They are very successful. Sashir? You can't do that. You can't say I won't be successful until I get into a Tyler Perry thing. I didn't say that. And then also not support my Cirque to Salaid dreams.

I'll bring it up for the rest of my life. She doesn't think I can be in Cirque to Salae. Oh, you can. Thank you. What do you want to do? Margaret, thank you. What do you want to do in it? I kind of just want to be like bend, like, Bendy and Dibendie.

and dive in the pool because the one we saw there was people diving and I really liked that and you're really good dating that would be fun but could you could you do it like

we would hate to lose your comedic voice so you would have to do it like both being funny but also doing the acrobat and I think I could do that because the show we saw was like I didn't understand

anything but it was very funny yeah yeah and I really liked it you don't want to walk on stilts like the clowns clowns are funny she walks on stilts so I'm not going to take that from her

I have walked on stilts. I walked on stilts at Disney World in Orlando. Yeah. In the parades. Wow. Do you still have that? I do have a pair of stilts in my closet right now. That's so scary to me.

I guess they thankfully trained us. So like the more you did, the more you were like, oh, okay, it's like pretty much like walking. Yeah. And we had these like pretty thick stilts. They weren't like, you know, the peg ones. So it was kind of hard to fall. And yeah, as long as you just like. had your core engaged and just, like, looked forward as opposed to down, you could stay up.

That's incredible. Yeah. That's incredible. Hear me out. In October, on Halloween, we dress up as you, as a tall something, and I'll be your handler. You just walk around your neighborhood with you unstilts. Please, please, let's do it. It would be a crab pleaser.

Please, let's do it. The kids would love it. Who's tall? Who could I be who's tall person? The Babadook? Is the Babadook tall? I don't know. It could be.

Why not? Yeah, why not? Yeah. Or, I don't know. Yeah, who's tall? The thin man? Slender man? Slender man?

Slender man? Slender man is tall. The thin, man. Slender man is tall. Yeah, okay. I'll be Slender man. And then I'll be one of the girls that he made kill their friend. Yeah.

And I'll lead you around. I love that. That's a good costume. I'm not kidding. Okay. I really want to do this. Let's do it. Margaret, thank you for being here to help this happen.

Well, I think she should be the Slender Man, and then you should be one of the girl that's and then you could carry around the dead body at the other girl's staff. And then it would be like a more of a complete costume. Yeah, Clive would be the dead body. Oh, my God. He would love it. He would love to go outside. He's not allowed to really go outside because he bit somebody and they sued me.

Oh, no. Yeah. Yeah. But in his defense, he is a little guy and he doesn't like when people reach into his face. Oh, yeah. Sometimes they don't like that. Yeah. Everybody's getting sued.

I got to do something. I got to get out. So sure, no. Why isn't anyone suing me? Because you're not popular enough. One of these days. No, you don't want to get sued. No fun.

It seems bad, actually. Yeah. I didn't like it. It was a lot of back and forth with State Farm. Awful. awful. Well, is there anything you want to like promote or like what do you want the people to see? I am on tour now until whenever and so it's the show. It's called Choligarchy and it's just like I hate this administration. Yeah. I hate what's happening politically.

I hate ICE coming into our communities and kidnapping people off the street. I hate the white supremacy of the, the, the, the redacted. ridiculous way that this country is going when you have people like saying slavery isn't really the fault of oh my gosh that clip blew me away it's so crazy like what like you know and then um trump is all as well he's like well slavery is doing people there's making it to be such a bad thing it's a bad thing it is a bad thing and he's trying to like get museums to change the stuff that they're displaying like the smithsonian i think had to like adhere to what his

history is. It's so scary. Which is the erasure of Black Pain. In our the worst part of our history, he's trying to erase. Like and trying to make it seem like it's not that bad. And they're trying to absolve themselves of all of these

atrocities. So, you know, whatever I can do like as a comic to, I feel like comedy got us into this. So maybe comedy can drag us out. I think you're right. I think that, yes. Yeah. So whatever we can do. I like that.

I like that, too. I'm so glad. Yeah. Yeah. And what's your website? My website is margarettoe.com. Easy. And you can go and get tickets there, and I'm going everywhere.

So it's really, yeah, for me, it's really important. So I just started the tour a couple of weeks ago in Provincetown, and now I'm just going to go everywhere. I love that. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you. Thank you for doing this. Oh, somebody woke up. She's excited.

She knows when things are concluded. She's like, and he gets so excited. He's like, so you get to play with me again? You're going to shut up. So he knows, like, when you're done with like a Zoom call. That's so fun. Whenever I go, well, thank you so much. He'll jump into my lap.

It's so cute. Yeah, they know. Yeah. They absolutely now. She's ready to go. Yeah. She's ready. What a cutie.

Thank you. Okay, goodbye. Bye. Best Friends is a production of HeadGum Studios. Our producer is Ali Khan. Our executive producer is Anya Konoskaya. The show is edited, mixed, and engineered by the great K.C. Donahue. That was a headgum podcast.

Hi, I'm Alana Hope Levinson. And I'm Dan O'Sullivan. And this is the outfit, the new podcast from Higher Ground and Headgum. You know, we're two journalists who are slightly obsessed with the mob and organized crime and other nefarious stuff like that. Every week, we're going to bring you a story about a mobster, some you've heard of, Some you definitely haven't, but all of them are going to help explain why America is like this. See, the mob explains all sorts of things, from milk expiration dates to why we got into Cuba, to Las Vegas. Gay bars.

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