Betrayal Weekly - Bernie Pt. 2 | Betrayal Weekly

Episode Date: October 16, 2025

Leo’s elaborate fraud is finally exposed. His face is on the news. Bernie finally gets some answers.   You can follow Bernie on TikTok @Bernie.Brown If you would like to reach out to the Betrayal Team, email us at [e-mail] and follow us on Instagram at @betrayalpod  To access our newsletter and additional content and to connect with the Betrayal community, join our Substack at betrayal.substack.com.     See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. What's up, everyone? I'm Ego Vodam. My next guest, it's Will Ferrell. Woo, woo, woo, woo. My dad gave me the best advice ever. He goes, just give it a shot.

But if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit. If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration. It would not be on a calendar of, you know, The cat, just hang in there. Yeah, it would not be. Right, it wouldn't be that. There's a lot of luck. Listen to Thanks, Dad, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

Hey, I'm Dr. Maya Shunker, a cognitive scientist and hosts of the podcast, a slight change of plans, a show about who we are and who we become when life makes other plans. I wish that I hadn't resisted for so long the need to change. We have to be willing to live. with a kind of uncertainty that none of us likes. You can have opinions. You can have like a strong stance. And then there's your body having its own program.

Listen to a slight change of plans on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. It's Financial Literacy Month, and the podcast Eating While Broke is bringing real conversations about money, growth, and building your future. This month hear from top streamer, Zoe Spencer, and venture capitalist Lakeisha Landrum-Pierre, as they share their journeys from starting out to leveling up. There's an economic component to community striving. If there's not enough money and entrepreneurship happening in communities, they fail. Listen to Eating While Broke from the Black Effect Podcast Network

on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. If you're watching the latest season of the Real Housewives of Atlanta, you already know, that's a lot to break down. Corsha accusing Kelly of sleeping with a merry man. They holding C. Michelle back from fighting Drew. Pinky has financial issues. On the podcast, Reality with the King, I, Carlos King, recap the biggest moments from your favorite reality shows,

including the Real House Wise franchise, the drama, the alliances, M&T, everybody's talking about. To hear this and more, listen to Reality with the King on the IHard Radio app, podcast or wherever you get your podcast. Hey, Betrayal fans, I have exciting news to share. Season 3 of Betrayal is now a docu series on Hulu. It's the gripping story of Stacey Tyler and the doctor who betrayed them.

See the voices you've come to know in Betrayal under his eye, streaming now on Hulu. Three weeks before he had first messaged me, he had actually absconded from prison. He was serving a sentence for fraud, and he was on the run when it met me. I'm Andrea Gunning, and this is Betrayal, a show about the people we trust the most, and the deceptions that change everything. Bernie Brown met a man named Leo on Grindr. Leo was unlike anyone he'd ever met, intoxicatingly charming, and it didn't hurt that he drove a Bentley. After a few weeks of dating, Leo revealed,

that he was actually a member of the royal family, and because of that, he couldn't come out as gay. His relationship with Bernie had to be a secret. Leo's need for privacy became even more heightened when he received a terminal cancer diagnosis. All the while, Leo kept up his career restoring luxury watches. He even made a deal with Bernie, to restore a Rolex for free.

Bernie just had to cover the initial cost. To do that, Bernie took out a high-interest loan to pay for the watch. and together they would resell it for a profit. But once Bernie transferred the money, Leo's communication became more sparse. Until one night, when Bernie got a hysterical call from his boyfriend. He was like, Bernie, I can't take this life anymore. Bernie drove across the country to pick him up. He was in tears.

He went asleep and I was stroking his hair. The next morning, Leo made a proposition. And it's like, I've got a serious question that I need to ask you. I want to move somewhere in Scotland Would you come with me? Leo had been looking to buy a castle in the Scottish countryside where he could live out the rest of his life

the way he wanted to with Bernie. And it was like, I want to put an offer in and move within the month. I'm just done with all of this. I'm like, do you know what? We've got one life. Let's do it. Leo drove them back to London.

It was a five-hour drive and they spent every minute of it planning their new life. We had designed this entire life down to the jobs we would do, the businesses we would build. On their drive, Leo's grandparents called. They were nearby, so Leo decided to meet up with them and spend the rest of the day with his grandparents. Bernie could drive the Bentley back to London, so halfway through their trip, Leo pulled off at a gas station where his grandparents, were waiting.

It was the first time Bernie had seen anyone in Leo's family. Leo asked Bernie to act like they were just friends. He went over to this couple. They must have been in their late 60s. And his granddad went to go to the bathroom. So I was like, okay, I need the toilet anyway. So I was like, I'll go. And then I went in, and then he came in after me.

So I was like, okay. On the way out of the bathroom, Bernie struck up a conversation with Leo's granddad. And he was like, oh, well, we live in Sussex. That's where the castle was. They chatted about life in Sussex, then headed back to their cars. Leo went with his grandparents and Bernie drove a loan back to London. Bernie was excited about starting his new life in Scotland, but his financial stress about the watch was mounting. It wouldn't be ready to resell in time for Bernie's next loan payment. I'm panicking now. I had missed one direct debit.

February's was coming up and it still was not happening. As the weeks went on, Bernie kept asking his boyfriend for an update on the watch. The watch is being almost dangled. It's like, oh, I'll bring it up. Can I, I'll come up to yours. I was like, okay, fine, I'll bring the watch yet. He'd get to the house. No watch.

Oh, I forgot. I didn't go home yet. For whatever reason, the watch would always. always either be forgotten or once the cleaner accidentally moved it and it was lost in the house somewhere so he needs to go back and look for it. It was getting absurd that Leo couldn't get the watch sorted out. Sure, there was a lot happening in Leo's life, but waiting this long was affecting Bernie's. There was something inside that I was questioning a lot more.

But I was still hooked. I still agreed to go to Scotland with him. Just weeks before, Leo had needed Bernie to drive through the night to be there for him. Leo showed him the house he was putting an offer on. Now Bernie wasn't even getting a text or a call back for days. The gaslighting started. We'd have this call, for instance, and like, what are you doing today? Let's have a call tonight.

Yeah, okay. And then we'd have a call, arrange something. And then he would be like, we didn't arrange it. I was like, well, we did because, you know, I put it here, I put it in my diary. up here. No, we didn't have that conversation. Bernie knew that Leo isolated when he was stressed about his cancer or his family. Bernie wondered if things had gotten worse. But all the worrying was starting to take a toll on his own health.

End of January, February and beginning of March was, and still is to a degree, a blur. I got into the worst state of mind. I had to take time off of work for depression. I got massively depressed. I lost so much weight. I didn't eat. Bernie knew something was wrong, and he started spiraling. Of course, like anyone,

I went straight into he's seeing somebody else mode. Somebody else is on the scene, and I went into that whole whirlwind. I did then do something cheek because I was like, I can't do this no more. I literally cannot do this anymore. With Leo across the country, Bernie got an idea.

Do you know what? I think I should download Grindr again. And with Grindr, you can change location and search for profiles within that location. So Bernie created a fake Grindr profile and set it to Leo's location. Now, I knew his type. So I found a decent looking ginger guy, put that on my profile. And I spent a good day at the location looking through profiles that didn't have pictures on. Lo and behold, he found my profile.

Leo sent the first message. So we're just talking. I'm like, what do you do? He's like, I'm a horologist. You know, I deal with watches. And he went straight into you. And I'm a part of the Howard family. And then he sent me pictures. It was him.

At the same time, Leo was talking to fake Bernie on Grindr, he was avoiding real Bernie's texts. He would reply to this person for literally about an hour, but I'm getting no reply. So I'm like, do you know what? I'm done now. That's it. I need to get this watch and I need to get it soon. So I did actually confront him with it and I was like, I know you've been speaking to people and I sent him a screenshot of the profile. And of course he was like, how dare you? Try putting it on me. And I was like, I didn't do anything. And it's like, you have no right and went off on one.

And I'm like, do you know what? It's absolutely fine. Just give me the watch. That's when he turned nasty. It's like, you're not getting the watch. You don't deserve the watch. Regardless of Leo's royal status or cancer diagnosis, Bernie wasn't going to allow someone to speak to him that way.

He hung up. Then, Leo started blowing up his phone. You know, I really love you and all of this and what about Scotland? Bernie told him he wasn't coming to Scotland. Their relationship was over. The only thing he wanted from Leo was the watch. So he's like, look, I'm going to bring the watch. It's finally ready.

I was like, oh my God, I'm actually going to get this watch now. And he was like, I'm going to bring it down. They set a time and place to meet. He was like, are you going to be okay seeing me? you know, it may be a strain. And I'm like, listen, I'm sure I'm going to be fine. I just make sure you bring the watch. Turns up, no watch.

That was the last time they ever spoke. I said, enough is enough. I'm worth more than this. And I blocked his number. I'd just been like, I'm never getting that watch. I need to deal with what I can. And this is the position that I'm in. Bernie says he was a shell of himself.

Over the course of nine months, his entire life had been rearranged. All of his savings were gone. He had taken out loans and maxed out every credit card he had. It left Bernie in a dark place. My best friends literally descended on my house and were like, we've never seen you like this and we need to pick it up. If I didn't have my friends around me at the time, I don't know if I would actually be here to this day.

I genuinely, genuinely believe that. Bernie's friend supported him emotionally, but he was facing his financial crisis alone. I had to just bow and say I can't afford it, default, and my credit score at one point went from the highest it'd ever been, straight down to zero. I'd never even seen zero on a credit score before. I was working in retail, and I had all this debt, and the debts that were coming out on a monthly basis, because of everything that happened, was higher than my entire pay, let alone when you take away bills and utilities and all of that.

Bernie was overwhelmed with shame. He was at risk of getting his car repossessed or his wages garnished. He was able to make a payment plan, but in the meantime, he had very little money to live on. He didn't take an obscene amount of money from me, monetary-wise. But what he did do was absolutely wipe me out. At one point, I didn't have the money to go to the shop to buy food. The monetary amount, for me, 20,000 could have easily been 5 million. It was all that I had to my name to survive.

£20,000 was a drop in the bucket for Leo. After all, his family lived in a historic castle. He drove a Bentley. But 20,000 pounds was everything to Bernie. And Leo knew that. I've reminded him time and time again. He knew exactly what my financial background was, what my current financial situation was.

He knew about all of that. But he still pushed to take them credit cards. He knew all of that was coming, and I reminded him many times every single day almost, that this is hitting. He absolutely did not care. Slowly, Bernie came to terms with his financial reality. He continued leaning on his friends for emotional support. That's when one of his friends said something he hadn't considered before. This was theft.

He'd been robbed. She was like, he's going to. carry on doing it to other people until somebody actually puts a stop to it. At that point, I decided that actually I will contact the police because this isn't right. Bernie walked into the police station and filed a report. They did take it seriously. I gave everything I had to them and they had absolutely no idea who this person was. According to the police database, Leo Howard didn't exist.

I emailed Arundel Castle, which is the official residence of the Duke of Norfolk, and there was absolutely no record of Leo Howard, Leo Bose Howard, or absolutely anything. So then I started doing my own research, but there was absolutely no trace. Bernie knew the VIN numbers to Leo's Rangerover and Bentley. All of the car registration numbers had completely been erased, which is very hard to do. I don't know how that's possible. The VIN numbers weren't listed on any database. It was like the cars never existed.

But Bernie remembered riding in those cars, driving those cars. It was all so strange. He was starting to wonder, what was even real? It was as if I had completely imagined the entire year. Completely imagined it. because this person just did not exist. Leo had vanished into thin air. Even the police had hit a dead end.

The police could not recognize his picture. They had to just close the investigation. It must have been a good year later. And I get a call when it comes up, and it's the police officer that was originally dealing with the case. And I answered, and there was a nicer tears, you know, how are you? And then he said, do you watch Channel 4? And I said, to be honest, no.

And he said, right, okay. There's this documentary that's just been shown on Channel 4. And from that, I've been given a case. And he said, everything that's been described in the case and on the documentary is almost identical to my story. Bernie had no idea that across the country, other people had been. reporting a very similar crime to the police. A broader case was developing. In fact, the story was already out as a true crime documentary.

It was about a prolific and highly manipulative scam artist operating all over the UK. The detective calling wanted to know if Bernie recognized the man at the center of it. He said, can you just Google and have a look? As soon as he said that, I had that. sinking feeling. My heart dropped to the ground. I knew it would be him. My hand started shaking and my brain went completely dead on just how to Google something, but I managed it. I got there. And it was his face. I'm Ego Wadam. My next guest, you know from Step Brothers Anchorman, Saturday Night Live and the Big Money Players Network. It's Will Fittam.

Farrell. Woo! Woo! My dad gave me the best advice ever. I went and had lunch with him one day, and I was like, and dad, I think I want to really give this a shot. I don't know what that means, but I just know the groundlings. I'm working my way up through, and I know it's a place that come look for up-and-coming

talent. He said, if it was based solely on talent, I wouldn't worry about you, which is really sweet. Yeah. He goes, but there's so much luck involved. And he's like, just give it a shot. He goes, but if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit. If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration. It would not be on a calendar of, you know, the cat.

Just hang in there. Yeah, it would not be. Right, it wouldn't be that. There's a lot of luck. Listen to Thanks Dad on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. There's two golden rules that any man should live by. Rule one, never mess with a country girl. You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes.

And rule two, never mess with her friends either. We always say that trust your girlfriends. I'm Anna Sinfield, and in this new season of the girlfriends... Oh my God, this is the same man. A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist. I felt like I got hip-hifted. by a truck. I thought, how could this happen to me?

The cops didn't seem to care. So they take matters into their own hands. I said, oh, hell no. I vowed. I will be his last target. He's going to get what he deserves. Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe.

On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. You can have opinions. You can have like a strong stance. And then there's your box. having its own program. I'm Dr. Maya Shunker, a cognitive scientist and hosts of the podcast, a slight change of plans, a show about who we are and who we become when life makes other plans.

We share stories and scientific insights to help us all better navigate these periods of turbulence and transformation. There is one finding that is consistent, and that is that our resilience rests on our relationships. I wish that I hadn't resisted for so long the need to change. We have to be willing to live with a kind of uncertainty that none of us likes. Listen to a slight change of plans on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, Ernest, what's up?

Look, money is something we all deal with, but financial literacy is what helps turn income into real wealth. On each episode of the podcast, Earn Your Leisure, we break down the conversations you need to understand money. investing, and entrepreneurship. From stocks and real estate to credit, business, and generational wealth, we translate complex financial topics into real conversations everyone can understand. Because the truth is, most people will never taught how money really works. But once you understand the system, you can start to build within it. That means ownership, smarter investing, and creating opportunities not just for yourself,

but for the next generation. If you want to learn how to build wealth, understand the markets, And think like an owner, earn your leisure is the podcast for you. Listen to Earn Your Leisure on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. A year after Bernie first went to the police, he got a call from a detective. They'd linked his report to a serial fraudster, someone who'd been conning men and women across the UK with the same mix of charm, money, and elaborate lies. There was a lot of press around it, and I broke down. I absolutely broke down in tears.

The story had exploded. Leo's face was all over the news. After Bernie got over the initial shock, a new feeling flooded him. The wave of relief. Now I have proof that it happens. Because bear in mind at that point, the only person who had ever met him was my best friend. We went out for one night.

Apart from that, he didn't want to meet anyone. He didn't want to be photographed. Anyone that I told this story to, there was always, I'm sure, an element of doubt because it was so extraordinary to happen to me or to anyone. When I saw this, it was that feeling, that overwhelming, almost joyous feeling of, I told you, this did happen. There were dozens of articles. Bernie clicked on one about a woman who discovered her fiancé was a friend.

fraud. He built a five-year relationship in order to scam her out of 30,000 pounds. I read the article and everything that happened to me had happened to her. Bernie knew that the documentary might hold answers to his many unanswered questions about Leo. We sat down and we watched it and as soon as I press play, it starts with his face. Again, I got that sinking feeling. It was surreal. Scene after scene, Bernie realized he'd lived the same exact moments with the same con man. The luxury watch business, a scam.

The cancer diagnosis? Fake. I'm heightened at that point, and the Bentley came up. And I was like, that's, that was the Bentley. And the watch that I was handling. and the watch that I was supposed to be buying was actually in the documentary. Just even little parts of the story.

I was like, yes, he told me that. Even though it was someone else's story, it was like watching his own true crime documentary. Andy learned, Leo had a dozen aliases. After the documentary, I did get emotional because I think that then sunk in. exactly the severity of what was happening. I was just a number at that point.

Straight away, I found the woman in the documentary on social media and connected. And I remember the first message was like, you don't know me. I've just seen your documentary. And I met him such and such a date. She came back and we had a few telephone conversations. They had so much in common. This other victim helped Bernie fill in the gaps in his knowledge and pieced together a timeline.

Most shocking of all, he learned... Three weeks before he had messaged me, he had actually absconded from prison. He was serving a sentence for fraud and he was on the run when he met me. Looking back, this explained something about Leo's behavior, how he was always nervous around the police. He never really liked the police. He was kind of scared of the police. To the point, he would wait around the corner if there was police cars driving past. He was scared. When Bernie met Leo, he wasn't in that campground because it was the only place he could be himself. He was there because he was in hiding. Leo had escaped while he was serving a five-year prison

sentence for defrauding another victim. And there were many more. He had victims across England. There was me and one other person in the north of London. All the other victims were in the south of England, in Kent, in Sussex. The person that was in the documentary was in the Isle of Wight. When he escaped from prison, he had then obviously traveled and he was in hiding. What was so chilling to Bernie was that The time the documentary was being filmed was when I was with him. And Bernie wasn't the only person Leo was scamming while he was on the run.

Remember Leo's grandparents who Bernie met at the gas station? I told the police my story and I said, look, I came into contact with his nan and granddad. They're like, no, that was another victim. I was like, wow, he was doing exactly the same to them. If Leo stayed behind bars, many people wouldn't have been victimized. He was a fugitive. The police were looking for him. But the problem was, the police weren't as savvy as Leo.

Now, we do have a national database, which comes up. But they didn't put him on that. So all the time that I was with him, there were actually campaigns to find this person. However, the police don't talk to each other over here. And when I had raised my case, they had no idea who it was until the documentary came out. That's when police stations across the country started connecting the dots. Channel 4 had done so many press releases that it really got the national scope.

and I think we're on about 10 people that have come forward and raised a case because of the heightened press and because all of this was going around, he decided to hand himself in. Leo was sent back to prison and Bernie hoped justice would finally be served. But he still qualified for early release. The mind boggles. But that's where we are and that's what we have to deal with

and that's what we are currently facing. Through this whole process, Bernie was able to get a true understanding of who this man really was. He even heard from people who knew the real Leo before he became a criminal. I've had so many messages

over social media and TikTok where people have gone to school with him and he used to make up stories to get people in trouble. He'd naturally gravitated towards fraud from a very, very early age. His background is so far from the royal family, it's unbelievable. From my knowledge, he is Polish heritage, very broken, upbringing.

And he, in all intents and purposes, created his own system to survive. And his system was to fraudulently gain money from ever, anywhere he could to create the life that he saw himself and that he wanted. And the life he wanted was one where he was wealthy, powerful and important. He wanted to be part of the royal family setting, and he believed that he was destined for more. He had created his own reality. And I think the longer he believed it, the more. He believed it.

Creating a string of fraudulent identities was more than just a dream of being rich. It was pathological. Every time he created this persona, this person, he threw himself so hard into it that he then started to believe that he was this person. And I do think there's mental issues there. It's been three years since he met Leo. And Bernie still questions Leo. those true motivations.

Was his intention to outright go in and commit fraud on every single person that he encountered? Or was it that his world at certain points starts to crumble and he has to get what he can do and run to create another life for himself? That other life that he's built up that is then crumbling. He thought back to their first date when he was asked to take off his clothes. Was that a test? Was it blackmail?

I've tried going back and be like, what did happen? Why did it happen? I have absolutely no idea. But I know it comes down to control. And I'm Ego Wadom. My next guest, you know from Step Brothers Anchorman, Saturday Night Live and the Big Money Players Network, It's Will Ferrell. Woo.

Woo. My dad gave me the best advice ever. I went and had lunch with him one day. And I was like, and Dad, I think I want to really give this a shot. I don't know what that means, but I just know the groundlings. I'm working my way up through, and I know it's a place that come look for up and coming talent. He said, if it was based solely on talent, I wouldn't worry about you, which is really sweet. Yeah.

He goes, but there's so much luck involved. And he's like, just give it a shot. He goes, but if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit. If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration. It would not be on a calendar of, you know, the cat. Just hang in there. Yeah, it would not be. Right, it wouldn't be that.

There's a lot of luck. Listen to Thanks Dad on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. There's two golden rules. that any man should live by. Rule one, never mess with a country girl. You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes. And rule two, never mess with her friends either. We always say that trust your girlfriends.

I'm Anna Sinfield, and in this new season of the girlfriends, Oh my God, this is the same man. A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist. I felt like I got hit by a truck. I thought, how could this happen? to me. The cops didn't seem to care. So they take matters into their own hands. I said, oh, hell no. I vowed. I will be his last target. He's going to get what he deserves. Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your

podcast. You can have opinions. You can have like a strong stance. And then there's your body having its own program. I'm Dr. Maya Shunker, a cognitive scientist and host of the podcast, a slight change of plans, a show about who we are and who we become when life makes other plans. We share stories and scientific insights to help us all better navigate these periods of turbulence and transformation. There is one finding that is consistent, and that is that our resilience rests on our relationships. I wish that I hadn't resisted for so long the need to change. We have to be willing to live with a kind of uncertainty that none of us likes.

Listen to a slight change of plans on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, everyone. I'm Cheryl Stray, author of Wild and Tiny Beautiful Things. I'm excited to share that I have a new podcast called Mind Over Mountain. In each episode, I interview athletes, adventurers, and adrenaline seekers to discuss the inner landscapes and life experiences. that informed and inspired their extraordinary feats. I also bring a bit of advice into the mix, so we too can better understand how to face our own seemingly insurmountable challenges.

Do you know what I'm going to do? I'm going to pull out what you already have inside. We're coming into this world, fighting for our lives. All I'm going to do is pull out what you already got inside. We're there to support and celebrate each other. And that's not like your story versus my story. You're going to walk up and over that dang mountain. You're not just going to put your mind over it.

Yep, yep, exactly. And if I can't walk up and over it, I'm going to go through it. Listen to Mind Over Mountain every Thursday on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. After having his heart broke in and his own financial stability destroyed, Bernie learned who Leo truly was. He was left picking up the pieces in the aftermath. I don't know whether this is still my subconscious, emotional tie. but I think there is an element that he'd gone through so much and then he met me and he had said many of times that he was gay, he just couldn't be out. And I do believe that there's an element that I wasn't his typical target and he wasn't there initially for money.

And I do believe at some point he did get emotionally connected. Because going after me for money wouldn't have made any sense. Bernie still wonders if that dream of going to Scotland together was a genuine offer to run away together. At some point, I do believe that he thought that he could get away from it all and escape with me and live that life that he had in his mind at the time. And I think potentially, once it starts... getting a bit too real with me, that's when he went into what I would call default mode. And that's when the watch came, because the watch conversation came very, very late in the day. And then it ended very, very quick because he had to have a new supply.

And he obviously, he couldn't leave empty-handed. Bernie's right. Leo never left empty-handed. In fact, he was running a major fraud scheme, and the watches were at the center of it. Some businesses have come forward and said that that person had sold them a fake watch. And bear in mind, these are big companies. They know how to evaluate watches. As more information came out, he learned that Leo defrauded Herod's department store out of a half a million pounds.

It was all part of Leo's scam. He was on top of his game with regards to watches that he knew how to see a fake, a very good fake, and improve it to the level that it was a very convincing actual piece. He scammed half a million pounds out of Harrods. Like, you are a different level, a completely different level, when you can do that. The knowledge that Leo had on watches, watch brands, the mechanics, the mechanical workings,

there's no doubt in my mind he has studied watches for a long time. Leo also knew cars. He scammed Bentley dealerships and financial institutions. He always had multiple scams going at once. Absolutely the mind boggles. I do not understand that. In February 2025, Leo was sentenced to 10 months in prison for having absconded from his original fraud conviction and five-year sentence.

It's unclear whether he will be criminally charged with respect to his conduct while he was on the run. Bernie took to TikTok where he shared his story. Through that experience, he has found language to describe Leo and what he did. TikTok was instrumental in me healing and starting that healing process. Somebody had commented on one of my posts and I went onto their profile and they talk about narcissistic behavior, everything from the signs to the results of what it actually does to you for the long term.

And instantly, I was like, this is exactly what. what he was doing. With the amount of gaslighting, love bombing, breadcrumming, you get so heavily sucked in that it does actually change your makeup and it changes the way you think. If you said in six months time, somebody is going to be in your life and you are going to be hanging on every word, you're not going to speak to your friends, you're not going to speak to your family, you're going to doubt everything that you say, I would literally have a laugh and say, carry on drinking. It would never happen to me. But it did. He'll carry the experience with him for the rest of his life. Your trust in other people after this is almost non-existent.

He lost a lot. But now, Bernie is focused on what he does have. I have a beautiful soon-to-be husband. And I've got a little puppy, and I've got amazing friends and family and actually neighbors. So I'm content. He will never, ever in his life, have what I have sat in this chair now. And I think that's just incredibly sad. I don't hate him. I don't think too much other than just sadness. Bernie wants to be a resource for other people who've been victims of scam artists and narcissists.

And the best way for him to do that is on his TikTok at Bernie. When I went on and I saw the TikToks around narcissism and around the discard, the gaslighting, all of that, that for me was just the awakening moment. Now, I can do that for somebody else out there. And it does take a little bit of courage, especially if you're going through it or you are very fresh from a narcissistic encounter. I just want to be that point of call and be able to just listen. We end every weekly episode with the same question. Why do you want to share your story?

I know for a fact that there's thousands of Leo's around the world. That's why this conversation, I think, is massively. massively important. You know, if I'd have known about certain things beforehand, maybe I'd have acted differently, maybe I'd have gone through what I'd have gone through, maybe I'd have acted differently halfway through, and I wouldn't have suffered as much.

But, you know, what's happened to me is done. But if I can share and open somebody else's eyes and say, you know, if this ain't right, then it's worth it. On the next episode of Betrayal Weekly. He's like fun. I just want you to know if you continue down this path

I will take every single cent I have and every single cent you have and I will spend it burning you to the ground. If you would like to reach out to the betrayal team or want to tell us your betrayal story, email us at Betrayalpod at gmail.com. That's Betrayal P-O-D at gmail.com

or follow us on Instagram at BetrayalPod. You can also connect with me on Instagram at It's Andrea Gunning. To access our newsletter, view additional content, and connect with the betrayal community, join our substack at betrayal.substack.com. We're grateful for your support. One way to show support is by subscribing to our show on Apple Podcasts. And don't forget to rate and review Betrayal.

Five-star reviews go a long way. A big thank you to all of our listeners. Betrayal is a production of Glass Podcasts, a division of Glass Entertainment Group and partnership with IHeart podcasts. The show is executive produced by Nancy Glass and Jennifer Fasin. Hosted and produced by me, Andrea Gunning. Written and produced by Olivia Hewitt and Monique Laborde. Also produced by Ben Federman.

Casting support from Curry Richmond. Our IHart team is Ali Perry and Jessica Kreincheck. Audio editing and mixing by Matt Dalvecchio. Additional audio editing by Tanner Robbins. Betrayals theme composed by Oliver Baines. music library provided by Mib Music. And for more podcasts from IHeart, visit the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

What's up, everyone? I'm Ago Vodam. My next guest, it's Will Ferrell. Woo, woo, woo, woo, woo. My dad gave me the best advice ever. He goes, just give it a shot. But if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit. If you saw it written down, it would not be an in.

It would not be on a calendar of, you know, the cat. Just hang in there. Yeah, it would not be. Right, it wouldn't be that. There's a lot of luck. Listen to Thanks, Dad, on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Hey, I'm Dr. Maya Shunker, a cognitive scientist and hosts of the podcast, a slight change of plans, a show about who we are and who we become when life makes other plans. I wish that I hadn't resisted for so long the need to change.

We have to be willing to live with a kind of uncertainty that none of us likes. You can have opinions. You can have like a strong stance. And then there's your body having its own program. Listen to a slight change of plans on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. It's Financial Literacy Month and the podcast. podcast Eating While Broke is bringing real conversations about money, growth, and building your future. This month, hear from top streamer Zoe Spencer and venture capitalist Lakeisha Landrum-Pierre,

as they share their journeys from starting out to leveling up. There's an economic component to communities thriving. If there's not enough money and entrepreneurship happening in communities, they fail. Listen to Eating While Broke from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. If you're watching the latest season of the Real Housewives of Atlanta, you already know there's a lot to break down. Gorsha accusing Kelly of sleeping with a merry man. They holding Kay Michelle back from fighting Drew.

Pinky has financial issues. On the podcast, Reality with the King, I, Carlos King, recap the biggest moments from your favorite reality shows, including the Real House Wise franchise. The drama, the alliances, M&T, everybody's talking about. to hear this and more, listen to Reality with the King on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. This is an IHart podcast, guaranteed human.