Betrayal Weekly - Circling the Drain | EP 6 | Karoline's Story

Episode Date: June 26, 2025

The Betrayal Team investigates how Joel was able to walk away from the mess he created.  If you would like to reach out to the Betrayal Team, email us at [e-mail] and follow us on Instagram at @betrayalpod.    To access our newsletter and additional content and to connect with the Betrayal community, join our Substack at betrayal.substack.com.     You can listen to new episodes of Betrayal Season 4 completely ad-free and 1 week early with an iHeart True Crime+ subscription, available exclusively on Apple Podcasts.   See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Hey, I'm Dr. Maya Shunker, a cognitive scientist and hosts of the podcast, a slight change of plans, a show about who we are and who we become when life makes other plans. I wish that I hadn't resisted for so long the need to change. We have to be willing to live with a kind of uncertainty that none of us likes. You can have opinions. You can have like a strong,

dance. And then there's your body having its own program. Listen to a slight change of plans on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi listeners. I'm Anna Sinfield, host of The Girlfriends Trust Me Babe. I'm excited to share the Girlfriends Trust Me Babe story with you. And I want to let you know that you can get access to all episodes of season one, two, three, and four of The Girlfriends. And every single episode, of The Girlfriends Trust Me Babe, 100% ad-free with an I-Heart True Crime Plus subscription. Available exclusively on Apple Podcasts.

Plus, you'll get access to all episodes of The Girlfriends Trust Me, Babe, one week ahead of everyone else. Available only to IHeart True Crime Plus subscribers. So don't wait, head to Apple Podcasts, search for IHeart True Crime Plus, and subscribe today. Hi, listeners. I'm Jamal Jordan, the host of Roershack, at City Hall podcast.

In July 2003, Councilman James E. Davis, an ambitious rising star in Brooklyn politics, was murdered inside New York City Hall, shot to death in front of more than 200 people. The killer? His political opponent, a man named Neil Askew. The full story of this shocking public murder

and the relationship between these two men has not yet been told. Until now. I want to let you know that you can get access to all episodes of Rochak Murder at City Hall 100% ad-free with an I-Heart True Crime Plus subscription, available exclusively on Apple Podcasts. Plus, you'll get access to all episodes of Rochak Murder at City Hall one week ahead of everyone else, available only to IHeart True Crime Plus subscribers. So don't wait.

Head to Apple Podcasts, search for IHeart True Crime Plus, and subscribe today. Hey, guys, before we get into the episode, a quick note, we're looking for new stories of betrayal for our weekly betrayal series, which returns in August. If you've experienced betrayal and feel ready to share your story, now is a great time to reach out. Email us at Betrayalpod at gmail.com. That's Betrayal P-O-D at gmail.com.

He would come in before he worked out and said hi. but the only reason he was there was so that everyone could say, well, he was there working out. But he was there for the sole purpose to take a shower after his lunchtime activities. I'm Andrea Gunning, and this is Betrayal Season 4, Episode 6. Circling the Drain. In the last episode of Betrayal, you heard Caroline describe her final meeting with Joel in 2022. They met to discuss issues surrounding their impending divorce. The location was a coffee shop they had frequented when they were a couple.

After more than two months at an inpatient rehab, Joel looked like a different person. Gone was the clean-cut cop she had lived with for more than 20 years. Caroline barely recognized him. His cell phone pinged relentlessly during their meeting with messages from dating apps. Joel's behavior hadn't changed. He just didn't need to hide it anymore. As far as Caroline was concerned, the relationship was beyond repair. And as you heard in previous episodes, their son had already made up his mind too.

But Caroline wanted Nicole, their daughter, to make her own decision about a relationship with her father. If she wanted to try to have a relationship with him and he was open to that, I wanted that for her. At the time, Nicole was the only one in their family still grappling with whether or to have a relationship with Joel. When it first happened, I just couldn't believe the depth of the lies that he told us. Integrate all of his actions just as one person and as him. Nicole was entering her senior year of high school, and it was just her and Caroline at home. In September, Labor Day weekend, our daughter and I decided.

that we were going to get away for the weekend, and we were going to go visit my best friend who lives in New Mexico. And as we're on our drive, it's about a six-hour drive. This text comes through. And it's from Joel, and it's probably two to three screens long. He'd sent it to both Caroline and Nicole in a group chat. And it just says,

I just want you guys to know I love you more than anything in the world. I think about your mother and you guys every day. I regret my stupid actions. I hope that we can be a family. And our daughter was just devastated by this text. Joel was saying he wanted to be a family. But his actions showed otherwise. And so I tried calling him and he didn't respond.

And then she goes to call him again, and this time you could tell he put her to voicemail. And so I said, maybe he's at work. Caroline just couldn't bear to see Nicole in so much pain. She wants to connect with him, and he doesn't answer. Nicole was holding out hope. He still holds this sort of grasp on me. Nicole and Caroline arrived in New Mexico for a much-needed visit with Caroline's best friend. friend Deborah. We met her in an earlier episode, and Deborah could see Nicole was hurting.

I felt like she really struggled because she was a daddy's girl. She was trying to weigh out. Do I want to still have a relationship with my dad? The next day, my best friend, her husband, me, my daughter, were FaceTiming with my son, who is in college on the East Coast. And we start just reminiscing and going down memory lane. And my son, my son, says, oh, I remember this picture. I got to pull this picture up. He's real silent. And then all a sudden he says, Mama, could you take me off speakerphone and just talk to me? And so I said, well, what's going on? And so he gets very serious. And he said, please, just take me off speaker phone. I just want to talk to you. And so I excused myself. And I said, is everything okay?

And he said no. Their son told Caroline that she needed to look at their shared family photo vault. Joel was still uploading pictures to the cloud. When I pull it up, there is just picture after picture of women on a beach who you can clearly tell they have no idea they're being photographed. Immediately, Caroline went to Deborah and showed her what her son had seen. It's just pictures of girls in their bikinis. Some of them are zoomed in on their butts or their crotch. You know that the women don't know. because they're either laying down and their face is on the opposite end,

or, you know, he's behind them when they're walking. There was one girl, I remember, she was walking with her boyfriend. She was hand in hand with a boy, and he was taking pictures of her butt. Joel had gone to the beach and secretly photographed women. He zoomed in on parts of their bodies, all while telling his family he was committed to change. And I am mortified. Mortified that my son is seeing this. His frantic response to me is, you got to delete this.

Get it off of here. Get it off of this. And I go to call Joel and he doesn't answer. And then I'm trying to figure out how to get a hold of him and I'm texting him what I'm seeing. The photos were right there in the vault for the entire family to access. Joel was indulging himself with no thought about the fact that his kids could see these pictures.

And there weren't just photos of women. There was also a photo of Joel out at a bar in California. By his side is a fellow CSPD officer, a buddy who must have come out to visit. In the photo, they were out at a bar, smiling and holding up beers, having fun. Meanwhile, his family was falling apart. I mean, it just appears that he treated this inpatient rehab facility

as a glorified frat house, not as a therapeutic opportunity. This was just kind of a retreat for him, a little vacation away from Colorado and the mess that he created. Joel finally responded to Caroline's text saying he didn't realize he was still sharing the digital photo vault.

We had extremely minimal contact, but after I found out about the pictures, I told him, We can't even share a phone account together. It was almost comical. I thought to myself, you're not even safe to have a Netflix account with. That next day, I went out and I put the kids and I on a separate phone plan.

She acted quickly. All she wanted was to shield the kids from these images. I was so frantic. I'm at my best friend's home. I'm not even home. And my immediate concern was to make sure that we are completely separate from him. So she asked Joel to delete the shared account, and he did. But in the rush, Caroline didn't save all the old family photos.

Which, I mean, sounds a little cheesy, but, you know, now I don't have the kids' baby pictures or video of my dad's celebration of life. All of that was on our shared account. There was just no way I could chance the kids and I continuously seeing these types of pictures. images that he took. And just being able to view those photos felt like a liability. Before she separated their phones and photos, Caroline noticed something else in Joel's cloud pictures. There's one woman repeatedly in pictures very recently.

It looked like Joel was already in a new relationship. Caroline texted him to ask who the woman was. He says that he met someone. while he was in rehab. She lived in Puerto Rico, and they had decided to meet. Caroline thought back to the text she and Nicole received a few days earlier while they were driving to New Mexico. When he said, he'd do anything to repair their relationship.

And so the truth is revealed that he sends this text begging the kids and I that he wants to be a family again, and he's so sorry. But the fact of the matter is he was sending it while he was already with a female he met online. And so it just kind of became this awareness in that moment for everyone, but specifically our daughter, that whenever he reached out really trying

and wanting to be a part of our lives, it was always a way to mask and disguise the fact that he was doing just the opposite of what he was saying. Nicole noticed the same pattern. He reaches out, sends my brother and I a text message when he knows that we're going to find out something pretty soon. Dawn is a friend of Caroline's and was also her divorce attorney. She mentioned earlier in the series that she doesn't usually represent friends,

but she made an exception for Caroline out of concern for the kids, who she knew well. Don saw the impact of Joel's absence on Nicole. To see Nicole really struggle to not see her dad or have that relationship anymore. It was just so jarring to her. She still desired that relationship. But Joel really just pulled completely away. Jen Forrester and her husband Tom are among Caroline's closest friends.

Jen also was disappointed that Joel didn't try harder. The fact that he kind of just gave up was really surprising. He hasn't tried to repair the relationship. And frankly, as a parent, why would you give up? I would never give up of my kids. I would say, I'm still here for you. I still love you. I will always be here for you.

How can you know that your child is out there and not want to be around your child or like know what's happening? with them. Nicole thought Joel would, at the very least, try to connect for the big moments, the milestones. And everything that Joel did, one of the hardest days was her graduation. You know, I left that morning because I wanted to get a lay necklace for her to wear. I wanted to get her favorite coffee and have it waiting for her when she woke up.

And when I came home, she was already up. And there was this envelope taped to our front door. And her little face, oh God, it just kills me. She just had this desperation in her face like she just was hoping for it. And she said, oh my gosh, is that from my dad? You can have opinions. You can have like a strong stance. And then there's your body having its own. program. I'm Dr. Maya Shunker, a cognitive scientist and host of the podcast, a slight

change of plans, a show about who we are and who we become when life makes other plans. We share stories and scientific insights to help us all better navigate these periods of turbulence and transformation. There is one finding that is consistent, and that is that our resilience rests on our relationships. I wish that I hadn't resisted for so long the need to change. We have to be willing to live with a kind of uncertainty that none of us likes.

Listen to a slight change of plans on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On a recent episode of the podcast, Money and Wealth with John Hobriant, I sit down with Tiffany the budgetista Aliche to talk about what it really takes to take control of your money.

What would that look like in our families if everyone was able to pass on wealth to the people when they're no longer here. We break down budgeting, financial discipline, and how to build real wealth, starting with the mindset shifts. Too many of us were never, ever taught.

Financial education is not always about, like, I'm going to get rich. That's great. It's about creating an atmosphere for you to be able to take care of yourself and leave a strong financial legacy for your family. If you've ever felt you didn't get the memo on money, this conversation is for you. to hear more. Listen to Money and Wealth with John O'Brien from the Black Effect Network on the I'd Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

Hey, earners, what's up? Look, money is something we all deal with, but financial literacy is what helps turn income into real wealth. On each episode of the podcast, Earn Your Leisure, we break down the conversations you need to understand money, investing, and entrepreneurship. From stocks and real estate to credit, business, and generational wealth, we translate complex financial topics into real conversations everyone can understand. Because the truth is, most people will never taught how money really works. But once you understand the system, you can start to build within it. That means ownership, smarter investing, and creating opportunities not just for yourself, but for the next generation. If you want to learn how to build wealth, understand the markets,

and think like an owner, earn your leisure is the podcast for you. to earn your leisure on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. What's up? I'm Miles Turner. And I'm Brianna Stewart. And our podcast, Game Recognized Game, has never been done before. Two active players giving you a real look at our lives and what we actually think, on and off the court. Nothing's off limits. We talk trade requests.

What's the vibe of that when it's like your star player is like, well, I want to leave? And then actually now I'm going to stay. We talk tanking. I mean, honestly, like, I might get in trouble for this answer, but I think it's, like, definitely happening in the WBA. And yeah, we talk about our mistakes, too. They pulled me to the side and was like, hey, man, we got a call last night, man, you can't be rolling around the city like this

tonight before games, no, you know, doing this, doing whatever. And of course, family stories. They'll be like, Mommy, why did you miss that? Mommy, do you play basketball? Check out Game Recognized game with Stuie and N. Miles on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On the morning of Nicole's high school graduation, Caroline found her daughter staring at an envelope that had been left on their front door. She just had this desperation in her face. Like,

she just was hoping for it. And she said, oh my gosh, is that from my dad? And I said, I don't know. And when I handed it to her and she saw that it was signed by our neighbor, God, it was one of the worst things to ever see. It was horrible. You just saw her completely deflate. This day that she had just worked so hard to celebrate. She just didn't recover from that day. You just saw her with this solemn expression and just deflated.

Every time she opened the door just a little bit, another lie would come up. You know, on her graduation that night, she wanted to go out to some parties with some of her friends. And before she left, she said, I'm going to text my dad. And I said, okay, that's completely your decision. I wanted her to continue that contact.

And she sent just the most simplistic text. And just said, I graduated today. That's it. And he took a while to respond and then eventually said, oh, I know I'm so proud of you. But minutes later, I get this rage text from him, blaming me for not reminding him. And you just saw her pining after just this hope, like, just be different. It wasn't just Nicole who was in pain. Caroline's friends watched her suffering too.

Joel wasn't around anymore, but every few weeks, a new secret was revealed. Here's Caroline's friend, Jen. There was an incident where Caroline had gotten a text message from someone. This person had basically told her about a friend of Carolines who had been intimately involved with Joel. And that was a rough day. You'd see her start to heal. She relaxed. You'd see her start to move forward.

and then something else would happen. And this was one of those instances. Like, it's not just taking two steps forward and one step back. Every time something came up, it just ripped the Band-Aid off again. As people in the community learned about Joel and Caroline's separation, they felt more inclined to contact Caroline with details of Joel's affairs. It felt like every day she learned of new affairs that had been going on right under her nose, sometimes for years. He had a long-term affair with a hairstylist. He sent inappropriate

texts to a local college professor who Caroline worked with. He'd had sex with an insurance agent, a prison guard, a nurse. Caroline was retramatized every single time with each new revelation. Her entire life was turned into community gossip, around town in the halls of the Colorado Springs police department, and even at work. Caroline's not a cop, but she does work in law enforcement. Her job requires her to interact with police officers all the time. They come into my place of employment, and I have to pass them. I have to interact with them.

I see them on elevators. I see them in the hallway. Meanwhile, I've heard the snickering. There's been blatant comments said back and forth in front of me where they know I'm an airshot. I was humiliated. to walk into work knowing that rumors were starting to fly and spread about what he had done. Caroline had to face the consequences of Joel's actions every day.

And so did the kids. They continued to find out new information. And instead of letting themselves be surprised or hear it through a third party, they wanted to control how and when they heard things. Really, it was the only thing they had control over. Here's their son. I wanted to know everything. Complete transparency.

If someone were to say that my mom shared too much, I think that'd just be continuing this deception. I'd rather find out from my mom so we wouldn't be blindsided randomly in the community. Nobody would want that. The truth hurt, but it was powerful and it was needed. That was the only way. to move forward.

The rumors were inescapable. Caroline's friend, Jen, recalls a day, Caroline received particularly hurtful news about Joel. She couldn't even talk to anyone about it. It was too much. I think emotionally, the anger, the hurt, the sadness, all comes back. I mean, she spent four days in bed, reliving all of it. of it. She basically said, don't come over. I don't want to see anybody. I cannot deal with

anything, right? So Tom and I dropped off dinner on her doorstep. You know, hey, we're here for you if you need us. All her grief, heartbreak, shame, and humiliation was unfair. Joel was able to leave and she was left with so much destruction when all she did was love and trust her husband. All of this got me thinking about consequences. Justice, really. You're going to hear different perspectives on what consequences mean throughout this episode. But I wanted to start with Caroline.

What would justice feel like for her? Turns out, it's pretty simple. It would feel fantastic to be able to walk into professional meetings, to be able to walk into my own employment, to be able to be in the community and not have copseek-thinking can make blowjob comments next to me. She doesn't want to feel like the butt of a joke. And she wants the support of the people at Joel's job, people she has supported for two decades.

On a very, very personal note, you know, the people who surrounded him at his profession, the deputy chief is my son's godfather. I have not heard one word from him. and the mix of all of this. I have not heard one word from any of the people who my kids and I were ever there for them in their time of need. Not one person has reached out to say,

are you and the kids okay? Not one. Joel was able to walk away from the mess without being terminated. Why? Because instead of being fired, he retired. In an earlier episode, you heard Joel meet with his boss, Commander Jeff Strassner. This was at the conclusion of Joel's internal affairs investigation for having sex in his police car while on duty.

Strassner found conclusively that Joel had violated five Colorado Springs Police Department policies, including departing from the truth, lying. He let Joel know he was going to recommend him for termination. The legislative intent is very clear that we cannot allow peace officers remain employed when they lied during an IA investigation. Joel's career as a cop would be over. The department set another meeting for two weeks later to make it all final. But that meeting never occurred because instead of facing termination, Joel chose a path that ensured he'd never hear the words, you're fired. He retired, and just like that, his work problems vanished.

A letter about his pending termination was replaced by an email congratulating him on his decades of service, just days after his meeting with Commander Strassner. How did this happen? Well, our team has been investigating it, and the first thing we discovered is that this happens all the time. Dan, a former CSPD officer, said it's common for cops under investigation to retire. Honestly, I was surprised he didn't retire like the day this came to light. I figured if he knew that this was true and knew how it could end, I'm truly surprised that it just wasn't happened immediately.

It appears that Joel waited until after the meeting with Internal Affairs and Commander Strasner when he knew for certain they were onto him. and there was no talking his way out of it. But before he officially left the CSPD, he took FMLA or family medical leave and went off to rehab, where his sexual escapades only continued. In taking FMLA,

Joel stretched his time. I hate to say, but when some guys are circling the drain of their career and getting ready to get fired, they will drag it out as long as possible because they're collecting a paycheck. And they might as well as long as they can. And it irks you when you're sitting up there knowing that we're paying somebody that is more than likely going to get fired and did some pretty bad stuff.

We also found this troubling. Joel had sex in his police car on the taxpayer's dime. And his consequences amounted to an early retirement, a handshake, and a pat on the back. We contacted Jeff Strassner about it via email. He's now the chief of another police department in Colorado. He pointed out that retirement is managed by a separate agency. Here's some of that email. As I am sure you are aware, he retired prior to discipline,

and retirement is a process managed by the Colorado Fire Police Pension Association. The department has no control if someone decides to retire prior to the execution of discipline and does not have the authority to intervene in the retirement process. It is common for retirement eligible officers who see the writing on the wall to decide to retire rather than go through the termination process. The police department wasn't about to interfere with the Pension Association. They don't have the power to. It seems like once Joel chose to retire and took medical leave, he became untouchable. It turns out, we weren't the first to investigate this pattern at the CSPD.

I'm Carly Rose. I'm a multimedia journalist at Rocky Mountain PBS. Carly reports on the criminal justice system in Colorado. I sat down with her when I was in Colorado Springs. Her team uncovered some alarming patterns among Colorado cops, which we'll get to in a moment. But first, I wanted to share one case that tipped her team off to a larger problem. Alexander Connauer was a police officer for the Colorado Springs Department. And he resigned while under investigation in 2012. Knoir was caught having a sexual relationship with the subject of a criminal investigation.

He left wall under investigation, and that was perfectly legal. But he was never decertified, meaning he could still work as a cop in Colorado. Then he was hired at the Cripple Creek Police Department. And that's where he met Kelly Davis. Davis came into the department to report a possible crime. But then, Knoir started doing exactly what he did back in Colorado Springs. He started messaging her, daily, and the messages became sexual. Him being the police officer had the power in this situation.

Kelly Davis eventually reported Knoir, and he was charged with sexual misconduct. But all of this may have been prevented if he'd been terminated and decertified back in Colorado Springs. He had already done it at another department and was caught for it in a sense in being investigated, but then he left and was able to go to a different department and victimized another woman.

Kanoir walked away from the CSPD and went on to another department. The heat from his first IA investigation did nothing to deter him from future misconduct. It didn't deter Joel either. After he admitted to sexual harassment in 2019, he got little more than a write-up, and we all know what happened next.

Carly and her team wanted to understand how often officers were avoiding termination in cases like this. So they looked at something called the Post database. It's a public database of the certifications of these officers, as well as certain actions against them, like resignations or terminations or if they were under investigation. One thing that really stood up, out was this action that was titled Resignation in lieu of termination and then also resignation while under investigation. We were like, oh, people can resign rather than face the consequences of an investigation. Rocky Mountain PBS reported the story in April 24. At the time of their reporting, there were 158 cases in the database in which officers had either resigned in lieu of termination or while

under investigation. And then about 120 had been terminated. Instead of being held accountable, more officers took the option to walk away. And Joel was one of them. You can have opinions, you can have like a strong stance. And then there's your body having its own program. I'm Dr. Maya Shunker, a cognitive scientist and hosts of the podcast, a slight change of plans, show about who we are and who we become when life makes other plans. We share stories and scientific insights to help us all better navigate these periods of turbulence and transformation. There is one finding that is consistent, and that is that our resilience rests on our relationships. I wish that I hadn't resisted for so long the need to change. We have to be willing to live

with a kind of uncertainty that none of us likes. Listen to a slight change of plans on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On a recent episode of the podcast, Money and Wealth with John Hobriant, I sit down with Tiffany the budgetista Aliche to talk about what it really takes to take control of your money. What would that look like in our families if everyone was able to pass on wealth to the people

when they're no longer here? We break down budgeting, financial discipline, and how to build real wealth, starting with the mindset shifts. Too many of us were never, ever taught. Financial education is not always about, like, I'm going to get rich. That's great. It's about creating an atmosphere for you to be able to take care of yourself and leave a strong financial legacy for your family.

If you've ever felt you didn't get the memo on money, this conversation is for you to hear more. Listen to money and wealth with John. John Hope Bryant from the Black Effect Network on the I'd Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Hi, everyone. I'm Cheryl Stray, author of Wild and Tiny Beautiful Things. I'm excited to share that I have a new podcast called Mind Over Mountain. In each episode, I interview athletes, adventurers, and adrenaline seekers to discuss the inner landscapes and life experiences that informed and inspired their extraordinary feats. I also bring a bit of advice into the mix

so we too can better understand how to face our own seemingly insurmountable challenges. Do you know what I'm going to do? I'm going to pull out what you already have inside. We're coming into this world, fighting for our lives. All I'm going to do is pull out what you already got inside. We're there to support and celebrate each other.

And that's not like your story versus my story. You're going to walk up and over that dang mountain. You're not just going to put your mind over it. Yep, yep, exactly. And if I can't walk up and over it, I'm going to go through it. Listen to Mind Over Mountain every Thursday on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, Ernest, what's up?

Look, money is something we all deal with, but financial literacy is what helps turn income into real wealth. On each episode of the podcast, Earn Your Leisure, we break down the conversations you need to understand money, investing, and entrepreneurship. From stocks and real estate to credit, business, and generational wealth, we translate complex financial topics into real conversations everyone can understand. Because the truth is, most people will never taught how money really works. But once you understand the system, you can start to build within it. That means ownership,

smarter investing, and creating opportunities not just for yourself, but for the next generation. If you want to learn how to build wealth, understand the markets, and think like an owner, earn your leisure is the podcast for you. Listen to Earn Your Leisure on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. In reporting the season, we've thought a lot about early warning signs.

Moments when Joel's behavior could have been stopped. Along the way, there were people who raised the alarm on Joel, like the reporter back in 2019. Back then, Joel Kern was up for the job of public information officer at the CSPD. The reporter came forward to warn the department that Joel was a problem. While he had served in that role temporarily, he had asked her and other reporters to use one. WhatsApp to communicate.

And after some hedging during an internal affairs investigation, he eventually admitted to sexual harassment. I would say that there was a degree of flirtation going on. And then sexual innuendo is how I would classify it. Were you trying to get more friendlier with those two, maybe hoping it might go somewhere? I think if I was honest with myself or then I would say, yeah, that would be an accurate statement. Joel was written up and took himself out of the running for the job.

He wasn't suspended or demoted. To us, it felt like there wasn't much of a consequence. But not everyone agrees with that assessment. I'm Will H.S. I'm a lawyer who practices out of Portland, Oregon. I have represented law enforcement labor organizations for about 45 years. Will has worked on countless disciplinary proceedings. And when it comes to Joel's harassment case,

he thinks the department did the best they could with the information they had at the time. After all, Joel said all the right things. It always helps an employee to come in and tell the boss, I know I've done something wrong and I apologize for it. He did get a reprimand, and he did lose what is considered in law enforcement to be a really good job.

So I think that punishment is on the range of reasonableness. We also wanted Will's thoughts on retiring in lieu of termination. He confirmed what Dan and Strassner told us. That's actually quite common. Police officers receive job protections like the ability to retire in this way that people in other professions don't. That can be a good thing.

These protections prevent new leaders, like a chief or mayor, from hiring and firing randomly for political or personal reasons. We do not want a public employee punished for simply doing their job the way they should. But these protections also mean that cops like Joel get a lot of leeway. We asked Will to read the transcripts from Joel's second disciplinary hearing, the one for having sex in his police car. Any police officer reading that transcript would be thoroughly embarrassed by what they were reading and would come up with the conclusion he should be fired.

I think ultimately if he had not had this right to retire, the city of Colorado Springs would have terminated him. Former CSPD officer Dan says that for the most part, CSPD employees do serve honorably. And the department has procedures in place to eliminate any bad actors. You know, that's why you have internal affairs in those places that are there to try to weed those people out and get rid of them. And I think most officers are going to be of the opinion that the officers that are giving us the black eye need to go. I will still say to this day that the Colorado Springs Police Department is one of the most ethical departments you're going to find. And 99% of the officers out there are doing it right. They're doing it for the right reason.

Joel ultimately lost his certification to be a cop, but he was never criminally charged. And there are people who see Joel's low-key exit as telling that it speaks to a pattern of corruption and favoritism. If you've made the right friends and leadership, you'll get a softer landing on the way out. We heard rumblings about this long before we ever set foot in Colorado, because there was somebody posting stories about it online,

A whistleblower acting under the name Romy East Ridge. They had a page called the police officer's whistleblower network, where they posted story after story of misconduct at the CSPD. On the Clock Affairs covered up crimes and inconsistent discipline. This whistleblower has remained anonymous until now. After several conversations, she decided to break cover to participate in betrayal. I think that in order for these officers to lose a fear of speaking out, I'm going to need to lead by example.

That's Claudia Aldrich. Claudia has a family member who used to work at the department. Claudia's family member went through an internal affairs investigation and experienced what Claudia sees as unfair treatment. Meanwhile, she kept hearing stories about other CSPD cops getting away with bad behavior. And she wanted to shine a light on the double standards within the department. So she started her whistleblower page. She says CSPD cops are too afraid to call out misconduct because of the rules for reporting.

Apparently, they had to go through the chain of command to open an IA on internal affairs investigation. If a cop wants to report misconduct, they typically go to their supervisor. And even if a cop reports misconduct directly to internal affairs or to another superior, word gets around quick. Claudia's sources confirmed a longstanding question we had about Joel's sexual activity. Did other employees at CSPD know what Joel was doing at work? The answer is yes, absolutely. But would people report it? who's going to want to do that?

Because doing that puts their career on a big red spot. So instead of reporting misconduct, some officers called Claudia. In one post, Claudia cites three sources in saying, Who is going to state the obvious from Gold Hill?

Would walk over to one of us and tell us we had to work the desk, while Kern and her would be holed up in his office. Everyone knew what he was doing with her during those days. We all just sat and essentially kept watch in case his wife or kids showed up with his lunch. He did that, and you could tell that even the commanders knew it.

Here's a former civilian CSPD employee who worked at the same substation as Joel. We'll call her Rennie. He would come in before he worked out and said hi, but the only reason he was there was so that everyone could say, well, he was there working out. But he was there for the sole purpose to take a shower after his lunchtime activities. Here's Claudia again.

I actually had one officer called me and said he did the same thing during the riots. She's referring to protests in 2020 following the murder of George Floyd. You're telling people to go and basically, faced rioters while he was in some motel with someone. People knew about Joel, long before Caroline ever did. Did they fear the consequences of reporting his misconduct? I know that Kern also had a lot of power and a lot of connections. A 24-year veteran of the department who was also willing to sit with us for this project, said the same.

Joel Kern was one of the golden few. Kern was protected. Post on the whistleblower page alleged that Kern was also protecting himself. One says, Lieutenant Kern had a black book of CSPD dirty deeds that guaranteed him protection. At first, we couldn't believe this. But then we heard from employees that keeping records to protect yourself is a common practice. When you heard of an instance where a call for service might,

have involved maybe the mayor, city council, other officers, someone in that sort of political or high-level realm, right? The first thing you did was look up that call, quickly print it out because you were guaranteed within a couple hours that call screen was going to disappear and would not be accessible. When someone calls 911, it generates a call screen. Sometimes these are referred to as a call for service. Call screens contain details like the names of the people involved, the location, the nature of the emergency, and notes about the call's progress. This officer and others we spoke with alleged that the identification numbers of calls for service for high-profile individuals would get hidden in the system.

And so lots of us, and I did it myself, would print out these calls for service. So in the case of some sort of retribution or retaliation, I had a file folder of, all if that's the way we're going to play, then I have this. We all protected ourselves. So employees were keeping dirt on their superiors. Why? Because they didn't trust their leadership. How can a police force function that way?

The story of the call screens surprised law enforcement attorney Will Aitchison. You definitely have an accountability problem. if that in fact occurred. Yeah, I'm very surprised by that. These officers were fighting without anybody knowing. And nobody knows that these poor cops have to go out in the street and just watch the back, but also watch the surroundings where they're in their department

among their own peers. Cops knew the deal. They weren't all going to be treated fairly. It was all about who you were or who you were friends with. On the next episode of Betrayal. There were times that he hit me. There were times that he threw me across the room in front of the kids. They get this case against him.

And unsurprisingly, they declined to prosecute. Thank you for listening to Betrayal Season 4. If you would like to reach out to the Betrayal team, email us at Betrayalpod. That's Betrayal P-O-D at gmail.com. Also, please be sure to follow us. on Instagram at Betrayal Pod and me, Andrea H. Gunning, for all Betrayal, content, news, and updates.

One way to support this series is by subscribing to our show on Apple Podcasts. Please rate and review Betrayal. Five-star reviews help us know you appreciate what we do. Betrayal is a production of Glass Podcasts, a division of Glass Entertainment Group in partnership with I-Hard Podcasts.

The show is executive produced by Nancy Glass and Jennifer Fasen. Betrayal is hosted and producing by me, Andrea Gunning. Written and produced by Carrie Hartman. Also produced by Ben Fetterman. Our associate producers are Caitlin Golden and Kristen Mulcuri. Our I-Heart team is Ali Perry and Jessica Krinecheck. Story editing by Monique Laborde. Audio editing and mixing by Matt Dalvecchio. Editing by Tanner Robbins. Special thanks to voice actors, Todd Gans, and Andrew Callaway. And special thanks to Caroline and her family. Betrayal's theme is composed by Oliver.

Beans, music library provided by Mind Music. And for more podcasts from IHeart, visit the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Dr. Maya Shunker, a cognitive scientist and hosts of the podcast, a slight change of plans, a show about who we are and who we become when life makes other plans. I wish that I hadn't resisted for so long the need to change. We have to be willing to live with a kind of uncertainty. that none of us likes. You can have opinions.

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