Betrayal Weekly - Donielle | Featured on ABC's Betrayal: Secrets and Lies

Episode Date: April 13, 2026

You can now watch Donielle’s story on TV!  Check out Betrayal: Secrets and Lies. Episodes air every Sunday at 10pm EST/9pm CST on ABC.  Donielle’s life descends into chaos when the FBI raid her house, searching for her husband and two of their family friends. She learns the extent of her husband’s horrific crimes and grapples with a life built on his lies.  If you would like to share your story, you can reach out to the Betrayal Team by emailing them at [e-mail] and follow us on Instagram at @betrayalpod and @glasspodcasts. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. What's up, everyone? I'm Ago Vodam. My next guest, it's Will Ferrell. Woo, woo, woo, woo, woo. My dad gave me the best advice ever. He goes, just give it a shot.

But if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit. If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration. It would not be on a calendar of, you know, The cat just hang in there. Yeah, it would not be... Right, it wouldn't be that. There's a lot of luck. Listen to Thanks Dad on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

When a group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist, they take matters into their own hands. I vowed, I will be his last target. He is not going to get away with this. He's going to get what he deserves. We always say that trust your girlfriend. Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe, on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hey, I'm Dr. Maya Shunker, a cognitive scientist and hosts of the podcast, a slight change of plans, a show about who we are and who we become when life makes other plans. I wish that I hadn't resisted for so long the need to change. We have to be willing to live with a kind of uncertainty. that none of us likes. You can have opinions. You can have like a strong stance.

And then there's your body having its own program. Listen to a slight change of plans on the I-Heart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, listeners. I'm Jamal Jordan, the host of Roershatt, Murder at City Hall podcast. In July 2003, Councilman James E. Davis, an ambitious rising star in Brooklyn politics, was murdered inside New York City Hall,

shot to death in front of more than 200 people. The killer? His political opponent, a man named Neil Askew. The full story of this shocking public murder and the relationship between these two men has not yet been told. Until now. I want to let you know that you can get access to. all episodes of Roershack Murder at City Hall 100% ad-free with an I-Heart True Crime Plus subscription

available exclusively on Apple Podcasts. Plus, you'll get access to all episodes of Roershack Murder at City Hall one week ahead of everyone else, available only to I-Heart True Crime Plus subscribers. So don't wait. Head to Apple Podcasts, search for I-Heart True Crime Plus, and subscribe today.

Hi, it's Andrea. And we are re-releasing some of our past weekly episodes, and there's a good reason why. For the last year, I have been working with ABC on turning some of your favorite episodes of Betrayal Weekly into a TV show. The show is called Betrayal Secrets and Lies, and it airs every Sunday at 10 p.m. on ABC. This week, we are re-releasing Danielle's story. You may have heard Danielle's story before, or you may be new to her story. A little bit about Danielle. I absolutely adore her.

People always ask me when I tell them what I do, how do these people not know? And I'm always protective of my storytellers when I hear that. Danielle's story is such a clear example of what we call betrayal blindness. You don't assume the worst about the person you love. You assume they're going to work every day. You assume your life is what it appears to be.

You don't assume they have a dungeon. And while all of that was happening, Danielle was raising six kids, homeschooling them, running a household, showing up every single day trying to be the best mom and partner she could be. When I was catching up with her recently, her new husband kept popping in and checking in on her as she was talking to me. Just these small tender moments making sure she was okay, it struck me how different.

that kind of love feels. It was steady, it was present, it was safe. And that's what makes her story so powerful, because it's not about what she missed. It's about how much she was holding, how much she was giving, and how deeply she trusted. Danielle, if you're listening, I hope you loved New York City. If you have not heard this story, I won't give any more away. Hearing Danielle's story is fascinating, but seeing it unfold is a whole new experience. So please check out Betrayal Secrets and Lies on ABC and Hulu to see Danielle and see where the story took place. Enjoy the episode.

One of my children saw his dad dressed all in black and he said that it seemed like his dad was mad at him because he yelled at him to go back to bed. And the night before that he had actually told, my oldest child to rack a sledgehammer that we had that had a really bright yellow handle in black electric tape and find a black raincoat for him to wear. And she was like, okay, dad. I'm Andre Gunning, and this is betrayal, a show about the people we trust the most and the deceptions that change everything. One night in 2017, Danielle Oliver Chauvey was

awoken by the FBI and state police. They were pointing guns at her, demanding to know where her husband was. That night, she learned the man she had spent 20 years with was hiding some very big secrets. This is Danielle's first time telling her story. She's been reluctant to share what she went through, because, as you'll hear in part two, her husband has other victims. She wants to be respectful of their experience and suffering. But this episode, isn't about her husband's crimes. It's about the 20-year marriage Danielle built with him,

the ways he deceived and violated her, and the shocking betrayal that ended it all. It's also the story of being totally in the dark about your partner's double life. I used to watch lifetime shows, and I used to be that person

saying, oh, she had to know something. So I totally understand why people say things like that. But until you are actually walking in those shoes and living with a person who can be completely double-faced, living a completely separate life, all I know is the life that he had with me and our kids. That's all I saw. He was able to do everything else completely separate. Danielle grew up in a happy, tight-knit family in California.

Family is very important to me. We were just over at my parents, all of my siblings, and we all just get along really well. There's hardly ever any arguments within our family. And when there is, it's resolved within the day. Growing up, Danielle's parents were her role models. They had a respectful and happy marriage. It was an environment that nurtured her easygoing and trusting nature.

I had a really good childhood, and so I didn't grow up with a lot of strong. or bad things happening in my childhood where that trust was broken down. She was raised with a strong sense of faith. That's still one of her core values. I know some religions can be like really strict. You can do this. You can't do this.

I wouldn't even say that mine is a religion. It's a relationship with Christ. Danielle's one of those rare people who loved high school. She was popular and she had a long time high school boyfriend named Billy. When we were teenagers, everybody thought for sure that we were just going to be together forever. You know, we were the thing. Right before their senior year of high school, Billy proposed to her, and she said yes. But then, I actually had to move to Hawaii because my dad was working for the military and we moved there.

She ended up spending her senior year in Hawaii. Then she got accepted to college in Illinois. She was ready to start a new life there. without her high school boyfriend. Giving up her first love was hard, but she wanted to prioritize her independence. Danielle thrived in college. She loved her major, which was art,

and she also loved going to Bible study on campus. That's where she met Chad. He was raising his hand and answering the questions right away, and he was answering the way I would have answered those questions right in line with the way I believed. So I was attracted to that. Immediately, she knew Chad was special. The first time I met him, I said to my parents when I got back that I was going to marry him.

So it was pretty much love at first sight. She felt comfortable around Chad. It was easy, like they'd known each other for years. We actually met at my parents' house and watched a couple movies, and I made a mizania, and he changed my oil in my car. That was their first date. From the start, Danielle was serious about Chad. When I'm dating someone, I'm deciding whether or not this person is the person I want to marry.

So I was looking for specific things that I wanted in a husband when I was dating him. And Chad checked all the boxes. There was lots of things. He grew up in a Christian home. He had a good relationship with his parents. He was business-minded, like he was able to support me. Everything about him thought. felt right. He was pursuing a degree in finance. He had dreams of starting his own business.

And like her, he also wanted a big family. But most of all, she just loved being around him. I had fun with him. You know, we would laugh about lots of things. I was just attracted to the way I felt around him. While they were dating, he went above and beyond to woo her. Something about Chad, you have to know, he likes to do everything big. I'd always have to to be the best and the grandest and the most showy. It's not who she is, but Chad said she deserved the best. And it was flattering. After about two years of dating, he made a particularly grand gesture.

He bought her an expensive dress, rented a limousine, and took them to a dinner theater. And during that intermission, he excused himself. I thought he was going to use the restroom. But he actually, it turns out, had set up beforehand with the theater. that he would go on stage and ask me to marry him from the stage. And then he got down on his knee and, yeah, it was quite the show. She said yes. He brought her out of her comfort zone, and it felt like a fairy tale.

I was 100%. This was the one I'm going to spend the rest of my life with. Chad was involved in every step of the wedding planning, which Danielle loved. And he also wanted to go to pre-marriage counseling to discuss their expectations. We discussed who would be the breadwinner in the home, you know, what would be the different roles of both husband and wife as far as who did what in the household. It was thoroughly discussed how our marriage would go before we got married. I mean, as far as you can, right? We did know that I wanted to be a stay-at-home mom, so that was talked about.

Danielle had been managing her own money in her early 20s, and although she was good at it, it was a relief to be marrying someone who had, had expertise in finance. It made her feel safe. And so they agreed that while she would manage the household, Chad would manage the money. And I had full trust in Chad to be able to do that too because of his business degree. He was really good at money since he went to school for it. I didn't have any worries about him taking over the finances for the family. She was happy with this arrangement. She's a do-it-yourself kind of person. It's an act. attitude that's well suited to raising kids and running the household. My dishwasher broke down several years ago, and I wasn't about to pay somebody because I'm

going to figure out how to fix it. I laid all the flooring in the house that I'm in right now. I didn't know how to do that, but I looked it up. Just went on YouTube and figured it out. So I'm that type of person. After they got married, the couple decided to move to Chad's hometown in Illinois. To call it a small town is an understatement. The entire part of the couple. population could fit in one high school football stadium. Well, the town we live in, Erie is only 1900. It's small. Small but perfectly suited to the life that they were building, a life that centered around

family and community. Plus, Chad had grown up there, so he knew nearly everyone in town, and everyone seemed to adore him. In fact, he'd been the high school valedictorian. Once they moved back to Erie, the couple also joined Chad's church. The church he grew up in. We were really involved with that church, and his parents went to that church too, and we led a Sunday school together the couple. Their life was falling into place, a happy marriage, a strong foundation based on shared values, a community that supported them, and a church they felt welcomed by. And Chad was making progress in his career. He began the certification process to become a financial advisor.

He wanted to start his own firm. He did it all online. Like, went through classes online and got his certificate online and all that. She was proud of him. And for the time being, she kept working too. I also worked for the post office for a little bit. But that was not part of our marriage plan. I didn't want to be a working mom.

I wanted to be a stay-at-home mom. Pretty much as soon as we got married, we started trying. But conceiving their first baby didn't happen as quickly as Danielle hoped. The months turned into a year. And during that year, Chad made a shocking confession. He came home from work and sat me down and said, I need to tell you something really important. And it's just said I had an encounter with a guy in the bathroom.

And I think we need to go see somebody and talk to like a counselor. about it. And so I was just like, what is going on? It just blindsided me, like, what just happened? She asked him point blank if he was gay. He said no, he wasn't. She wanted more details about what actually happened, who it was with and what they did. But he never really gave a straight answer. It was just, we need to go talk to somebody, like a counselor about it. There's two golden rules that any man should live by. Rule one, never mess with a country girl. You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes.

And rule two, never mess with her friends either. We always say that trust your girlfriends. I'm Anna Sinfield, and in this new season of the girlfriends... Oh my God, this is the same man. A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist. I felt like I got hit by a truck. I thought, how could this happen to me? The cops didn't seem to care.

So they take matters into their own hands. I said, oh, hell no. I vowed, I will be his last target. He's going to get what he deserves. Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

What's up, everyone? I'm Ego Wode. My next guest, you know from Step Brothers Anchorman, Saturday Night Live, and The Big Me, Money Players Network. It's Will Ferrell. Woo. Woo. Woo. My dad gave me the best advice ever.

I went and had lunch with him one day. And I was like, and Dad, I think I want to really give this a shot. I don't know what that means, but I just know the groundlings. I'm working my way up through, and I know it's a place that come look for up and coming talent. He said, if it was based solely on talent, I wouldn't worry about you, which is really sweet. Yeah. He goes, but there's so much luck involved. Mm.

And he's like, just give it a shot. He goes, but if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit. If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration. It would not be on a calendar of, you know, the cat. Just hang in there. Yeah, it would not be. Right, it wouldn't be that. There's a lot of luck.

Listen to Thanks Dad on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. You can have opinions. You can have like a strong stance. And then there's your body having its own program. I'm Dr. Maya Shunker, a cognitive scientist and hosts of the podcast, a slight change of plans, a show about who we are and who we become when life makes other plans. We share stories and scientific insights to help us all better navigate these periods of turbulence and transformation. There is one finding that is consistent, and that is that,

Our resilience rests on our relationships. I wish that I hadn't resisted for so long the need to change. We have to be willing to live with a kind of uncertainty that none of us likes. Listen to a slight change of plans on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On a recent episode of the podcast Money and Wealth with John Hobriant, I sit down with Tiffany the budgetista Aliche to talk about what it really takes. to take control of your money. What would that look like in our families if everyone was able to pass on wealth

to the people when they're no longer here? We break down budgeting, financial discipline, and how to build real wealth, starting with the mindset shifts. Too many of us were never, ever taught. Financial education is not always about, like, I'm gonna get rich. That's great.

It's about creating an atmosphere for you to be able to take care of yourself and leave a strong, strong financial legacy for your family. If you've ever felt you didn't get the memo on money, this conversation is for you to hear more. Listen to Money and Wealth with John O'Brien from the Black Effect Network on the I'd Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

Danielle was shaken and confused about her husband's confession to a one-time fling. But at the same time, Chad was doing everything he could to make it right. He confessed to it immediately. He wanted to get help. And most importantly, he was coming to her with sincere remorse. He was crying. I was crying. He was saying, sorry.

Chad wanted to get help quickly. And so the next day, they did. We actually went to the pastor and asked for advice about who we should see as a marriage counselor for us. We were given a name of a Christian counselor. They had multiple sessions. with the counselor, some sessions together as a couple and some separately. During a one-on-one meeting, the counselor gave Danielle some advice. He advised me, you should really think carefully about this marriage.

You know, you actually have a right to end this marriage if he's being unfaithful to you. The counselor said he'd seen a situation like this before, and he wanted Danielle to know that divorce was an option. I understood that. I knew that that's something that is perfectly fine for me to file for a divorce, but I didn't want to. I wanted to make this marriage work.

I didn't even want the word divorce to come up in our marriage. When I made a commitment in our marriage at the wedding ceremony, my promise was a promise. I didn't take my vows lightly. In sickness and in health, or richer for poorer.

I was going to walk through it with him. I wanted to help him resolve whatever it was that he was going through because I loved him and I wanted our marriage to work. This one infidelity, it felt small and manageable, especially compared to the years they'd spent together, getting to know each other, studying the Bible together, and building a life. She really trusted Chad. I felt like I could 100% trust him,

even though he had done whatever he had done. I believed him 100%. They got a workbook on overcoming infidelity and even did the homework together. And they decided to lean on their faith to help them rebuild their relationship. Church became an even bigger part of their lives. He was an elder in the church.

We jointly were leaders for kids' Christian camps. We were very involved in our faith. Their marriage began looking up, especially when a year later, they welcomed their first baby, a baby girl. She was an amazing first child, super easy baby. Smiling all the time, happy, alert. It was a great, great first mom experience. Danielle was on top of the world, so filled with love for her first daughter and her young family. It confirmed to her that she really did.

want to be a stay-at-home mom. She just felt whole. People that we would meet walking through a mall always stop and say, oh, you have the cutest baby. She's the cutest thing I've ever seen. And your family is so cute. The difficulties she and Chad faced in the first year of marriage started to feel like they were in the rearview mirror. At that point, I felt totally in love with him and close to him. I felt like I had the perfect life. That baby would be the first of six. I knew that you could get pregnant even when you were still nursing and before you had your first cycle after pregnancy.

I didn't think it was going to happen to me, but it did. Soon, Danielle's life became consumed by full-time childcare. As their kids got older, she started homeschooling them, and she loved every minute of it. I wouldn't have it any other way. I know a lot of people are like, wow, six kids, that's a lot. But, you know, each one of them is unique. It has their own personality.

Each of them is just amazing. I love it. I absolutely love it. With their growing family came more financial demands. But luckily, Chad's business was taking off. They even had the ability to upgrade their house. He had been starting to look at this property that he really wanted. It was a huge house, way big.

bigger than we needed. Enormous, huge living room, huge family room, huge dining room, huge, huge master bedroom, you know, basement that looked like a bowling alley. And so he started looking at it and dreaming about it and eventually decided that he was going to try to purchase it. Danielle didn't think it was the most practical choice, but the house made him happy. After they moved in, he tried to tell her how to run the house, but she stood her ground. She trusted him to handle the finances. So when it came to the housework, he needed to trust her. He wanted me to do things a certain way, like do laundry on a certain day, do the dishes on a certain day, or, you know, do dusting on a certain day. And I was like, no, I will do it when it needs to be done. When I see that it needs

doing, I'll do it. And there were a lot of things that needed dusting. Chad was a collector. It was a quirk that Danielle accepted. Precious moments figurines, and he was very much a Hallmark fan, so he had millions of Hallmark ornaments. Tons of DVDs. I mean, we had two huge walls full of DVDs. They loved watching movies as a family, and after the kids went to bed, the couple would watch their favorite TV shows.

Dexter and Breaking Bad. Every summer. Danielle, Chad, and their six kids would take family road trips. Yellowstone, the Grand Canyon, Mount Rushmore. We had all the tourist places in the United States. We had a lot of really fun times as family. On these trips, they'd stay in huge rental homes. Chad always wanted the best of the best for the family.

And they were very nice, very nice rented houses. Some of them I was like, okay, guys, don't touch anything. You know, like expensive paintings on the walls and glass decorations. One summer, about 15 years into their marriage, the family was on one of their regular road trips. And on this trip, their rental home was in a remote area. I woke up around between the morning. I know it was the middle of the night. All the kids were asleep.

and I got up to go to the bathroom or something and turned over and he was not in bed with me. I looked around the house to see if he was just up somewhere. He was not there. I went out into the garage area. The car was gone. So I started being like, where did he go? There was no note as far as he left somewhere. He didn't leave a message on my phone.

He was just gone. It was the early 2000s. So she didn't have to be. have a smartphone to look at his location. She started to worry that something terrible happened. So I started calling around to the hospital around the area. Is there any Chad Skipper admitted into this hospital? No, ma'am.

Call the next hospital. Around 3 a.m., the phone rang. It was Chad. And he said he was at Walmart. I was like, okay, why are you at Walmart? I just thought I would pick up some stuff. But, you know, you can kind of tell when somebody's calling from the middle of a store, you can hear the hum of everything. There was no shopping cart sounds, no like cashier beeping and stuff.

There was none of that. It did not sound like he was in a shopping area. I hung up the phone and just was like, how, what is happening? I don't understand. It says he's on Walmart, but it's hours away. That doesn't make any sense. and I just sat in confusion shaking until he got home. When Chad got back, he tried to explain it away.

He apologized. He said, I'm sorry I didn't tell you where I was going. Everything's fine. You're good. The kids are good. I'm back. We're safe. He blew it over.

Whenever they got in a disagreement, this is what he'd tell her. His favorite phrase was, don't make a mountain house. out of a mohill. You know, you just get really emotional about things. It's okay. You know, calm down. Always made me feel like I was crazy. Abandoning the family in a rental house in the middle of the night with no good explanation, it just didn't sit right with her. So Danielle called her mom. She was like, oh, wow, yeah, that is really weird. I'm glad you're okay. You know, I'm glad it all worked out, but that is really weird. Danielle was the full-time caretaker for six children under 15.

She didn't have the energy to fight with her husband. I didn't confront him. That's one of my personality quirks is I don't like confrontation. I would rather just not talk about it than have a huge argument about something, which is not healthy. I think it's much healthier to communicate and work it out. but at that point, I just didn't want to do of it. Plus, whenever she did question him, it always ended up coming back on her.

The rare occasions, when I would ask questions, I would be shut down and told I was crazy or that is totally not how it went. You have, you know, blown this out of proportion and you don't remember the actual facts that actually happened. This is how it actually happened. There's two golden rules that any man should live by. Rule one, never mess with a country girl. You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes. And rule two, never mess with her friends either. We always say that trust your girlfriends.

I'm Anna Sinfield. And in this new season of the girlfriends... Oh my God, this is the same man. A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist. I felt like I got hit by a truck. I thought, how could this happen to me? The cops didn't seem to care. So they take matters into their own hands.

I said, oh, hell no. I vowed. I will be his last target. He's going to get what he deserves. Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

I'm Ego Vodam. My next guest, you know from Stepbrothers Anchorman, Saturday Night Live and the Big Money Players Network. It's Will Farrell My dad gave me the best advice ever I went and had lunch with him one day And I was like And dad I think I want to really give this a shot

I don't know what that means But I just know the groundlings I'm working my way up through And I know it's a place that come Look for up and coming talent He said if it was based solely on talent I wouldn't worry about you Which is really sweet

Yeah He goes but there's so much luck involved And he's like Just give it a shot He goes, but if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit. If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration. It would not be on a calendar of, you know, the cat. Just hang in there.

Yeah, it would not be. Right, it wouldn't be that. There's a lot of luck. Listen to Thanks Dad on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. You can have opinions. You can have like a strong stance. And then there's your body having its own program. I'm Dr. Maya Shunker, a cognitive scientist and host of the podcast, a slight change of plans,

a show about who we are and who we become when life makes other plans. We share stories and scientific insights to help us all better navigate these periods of turbulence and transformation. There is one finding that is consistent, and that is that, Our resilience rests on our relationships. I wish that I hadn't resisted for so long the need to change. We have to be willing to live with a kind of uncertainty that none of us likes. Listen to a slight change of plans on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On a recent episode of the podcast Money and Wealth with John Hobriant, I sit down with Tiffany the budgetista Aliche to talk about what it really takes.

to take control of your money. What would that look like in our families if everyone was able to pass on wealth to the people when they're no longer here? We break down budgeting, financial discipline, and how to build real wealth, starting with the mindset shifts. Too many of us were never, ever taught.

Financial education is not always about, like, I'm gonna get rich. That's great. It's about creating an atmosphere for you to be able to take care of yourself and leave a strong, strong financial legacy for your family. If you've ever felt you didn't get the memo on money, this conversation is for you to hear more.

Listen to Money and Wealth with John O'Brien from the Black Effect Network on the I'd Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. When Danielle woke up on a family vacation to find her husband missing, he said he was picking up something for work at a Walmart in the middle of the night. She didn't quite buy the story. But she knew Chad was busier than ever, growing his financial advising firm. Around the same time, he decided to start making passive income by buying rental properties in town.

It started with one small house, then two, then an apartment building in their hometown. He was so busy that he often worked from home at nights. He renovated their basement to become his home office. He even put in a king-sized bed. I didn't understand why you would need a bed in your office, but he insisted on having it. And his reasons were that if he needed a nap, he could just hop into bed and take a quick nap and then get back to work.

It bothered her, him staying up late like this and sleeping in his office. It also bothered her that he locked the door. He said it was a security measure because he had important financial documents in there. And in the back of my mind, I'm thinking, well, how do you work at night if you are a financial advisor? You can't meet with clients at night. So it was just very confusing to me. And I do remember one time just crying my eyes out to him saying, I really want you to sleep with me. You know, at night, I just feel closer to you when we're sleeping together.

I feel like we're more like roommates. He started coming to bed with her until she fell asleep. Then he would slip out and go back to work. She would only realize it when she woke up and found him gone. One night, I actually got up out of bed and was knocking on his basement door and I heard no answer. And so I actually got in the car and was driving around thinking maybe I would see his car somewhere. I never did. But I got to that point where I was like starting to look to see if I could find anything.

She never found any proof that her husband was cheating or having an affair. She didn't have the energy to start a fight with him. He insisted on sleeping in the basement. Eventually, she became resigned to the fact she couldn't change his mind. At that point in our marriage, I felt very distant from him. I felt like there was a wall up and we never would discuss anything. If I ever wanted to talk about anything, it was always, I'm too tired, or can we talk about this tomorrow or let's talk about this weekend,

but nothing ever got talked about. In this period where Chad was sleeping in the basement office and they were bickering, Danielle knew that their marriage needed to improve. So she sought help for herself. I actually went and saw a counselor a couple times on my own because I felt like me having these issues with our marriage was kind of my fault. I felt like there was something wrong with me, not feeling close to him. but I wanted our marriage to be a really good marriage and I didn't feel that it was a good marriage.

She even suggested they try counseling again as a couple. But this time, Chad resisted. He refused to go to more than one or two sessions with me. He felt like it was useless or he didn't want to tell somebody else our problems. With each passing month, Chad spent more and more time out of the house, renovating the rental properties. In some nights, tenants would call with emergencies. There would be nights where he would say,

oh, I got to go. There's a sewage leak. I have to go really quick and fix the sewage leak. Despite their rocky few years, she still trusted him. She had to. You can't have a marriage without trust. It doesn't work.

You know, if one of the partners say, I'm going to go do this outside the home, you have to trust. trust that they're actually doing what they're saying they're doing. Like if I say I'm going to go shopping, he has to trust that I'm actually shopping. If he says I'm going to go to fix the sewage system in his apartments, I have to trust that he's actually doing that. Otherwise, there's no relationship.

Plus, the rental properties added financial security to their lives. She believed that at the end of the day, he was working so hard in order to provide for the family. She often overheard him practicing conversations he needed to have for work. He had this weird quirk where if he was going to have a conversation with somebody, he would write down the conversation that he was going to have and then memorize it. And then I would often see him like pacing and doing weird things with his hands and with his mouth. I think he was like rehearsing in his mind how the conversation would go

and what he would say in response to their responses. There was one big meeting in particular. Chad was preparing for. It was with an older couple that went to their church, a couple that taught Sunday school. They had known Chad for nearly his whole life. And they were wealthy. Chad set up a meeting with them

to pitch his financial advising services. He was trying to really hard to get them to be one of his clients. In the end, they decided not to use him. He was dejected. He'd been counting on their business. After that meeting, didn't go as plans. And he started talking about selling his financial advising business. And instead, getting into the storage industry.

There's a little plot of land that would be perfect for storage units. So he had said that, you know, we're going to buy this land over here. And I'm going to start building storage units. And so we need to set up this LLC. He wanted Danielle to sign paperwork to help set up the business. If we have you as a president, then it's better for taxes because you're a woman. He asked her to go to the bank with him that day to get it set up. And there, out in public, she noticed that her husband looked disheveled. He was not bathed. He didn't shave. I was surprised

that he went to the bank in the state that he was in. I just thought, well, he must be so tired. He's trying to sell his financial business. And he's trying to get these storage units ready. And he's He was not getting much sleep, so he just must be really stressed out. Later that day, one of Danielle's kids came to her. He said that last night he'd seen something strange in the driveway of their house. One of my children said that he got up and saw his dad dressed all in black. And he said that it seemed like Chad was mad at him because he yelled at him to go back to bed. This was alarming because another one of her kids had confessed something was.

The night before that, he had actually told my oldest child to rack a sledgehammer that we had that had a really bright yellow handle in black electric tape and find a black raincoat for him. And she was like, okay, dad. Immediately, she tried to get in touch with Chad, but he wasn't answering his phone. After they went to the bank, he'd left the house to work on a rental property. There were several rental places that he owned, that he was either renovating or was currently renting. I texted him asking if he could call me as soon as possible. I was starting to feel like, okay, what's going on? I hope he's okay.

I hope he's not in an accident. He called shortly after and explained that he had accidentally fallen asleep at the rental and that he was still feeling a little disoriented, but reassured me that he was fine. If it sounds like Danielle is reading off of a piece of paper, it's because she is. She's reading from a written statement documenting this day. Nothing is as it seems. Absolutely nothing. This is my living nightmare and what I can remember that has happened in the last few days.

At 4.22 p.m., I texted him asking if he was okay. No response. I texted again at 5.06 p.m. and his response was, yep, you? I told him I was just wondering what happened and he texted, what do you mean? And then around 5.30 he called and said he was sorry he didn't see my text and that he must have been in the basement and hadn't gone it right away. That night, Chad didn't come home for dinner.

At the time, she assumed he'd fallen asleep at the rental property again. But she couldn't leave her six small children to go check on him. So around 11 p.m. after putting the kids to bed, She went to sleep herself. The next thing I heard was banging and breaking glass and men yelling, state police, state police, hands in the air. I came out in my bedroom with no glasses on, hands in the air, wondering if they were actually police,

because I can't see very far. I can only see about a foot in front of me without being blurry. In my mind, I was thinking, well, either I'm being robbed and they're posing as state police or something's happening, and I have no idea where there's state police in my house with a gun pointed at me.

It was becoming very clear, very quickly. This was actually the state police. And the FBI. There wasn't a mistake. They were looking for Chad. And they were incredibly serious. They asked if anyone else was in the house, and I said, yes, just me and the kids,

assuming Chad was at the rental. My whole mouth, got super dry. I could not hardly even talk. I asked them if I could go back into the bedroom to get some water. I kept water by my bed. And they're like, no, you can't go anywhere. You have to stay right here.

I wasn't even allowed to wake up my kids. They actually went and woke up all of my kids. They were asking if there was hiding places in the house. And it threw me for a loop because I'm like, I mean, my kids hide in little places when they play hide and see. Then the police asked her about, about the elderly couple that went to their church. The ones Chad wanted as clients.

Why are you asking me questions about them? And where is my husband? There's two golden rules that any man should live by. Rule one, never mess with a country girl. You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes. And rule two, never mess with her friends either. We always say that trust your girlfriends. I'm Anna Sinfield.

And in this new season of The Girlfriends, Oh my God, this is the same man. A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist. I felt like I got hit by a truck. I thought, how could this happen to me? The cops didn't seem to care. So they take matters into their own hands. I said, oh, hell no.

I vowed. I will be his last target. He's going to get what he deserves. Listen to the Girlfriends. Trust me, babe. on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Everyone, I'm Ago Vodam. My next guest, you know from Step Brothers Anchorman, Saturday Night Live,

and the Big Money Players Network. It's Will Ferrell. Woo! Woo! My dad gave me the best advice ever. I went and had lunch with them one day, and I was like, and Dad, I think I want to really give this a shot. I don't know what that means, but I just know the groundlings. I'm working my way up.

through and I know it's a place they come look for up and coming talent. He said if it was based solely on talent, I wouldn't worry about you, which is really sweet. Yeah. He goes, but there's so much luck involved. And he's like, just give it a shot. He goes, but if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit. If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration. It would not be on a calendar of, you know, the cat just had.

Hang in there. Yeah, it would not be. Right, it wouldn't be that. There's a lot of luck. Listen to Thanks, Dad, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. You can have opinions. You can have like a strong stance. And then there's your body having its own program. I'm Dr. Maya Shunker, a cognitive scientist and hosts of the podcast, a slight change of plans, a show about who we are and who we become.

when life makes other plans. We share stories and scientific insights to help us all better navigate these periods of turbulence and transformation. There is one finding that is consistent, and that is that our resilience rests on our relationships. I wish that I hadn't resisted for so long the need to change. We have to be willing to live with a kind of uncertainty

that none of us likes. Listen to a slight change of plans on the I-Heart Radio, app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On a recent episode of the podcast, Money and Wealth with John Ho'Brien, I sit down with Tiffany the budgetista Aliche to talk about what it really takes to take control of your money. What would that look like in our families if everyone was able to pass on wealth to the people when they're no longer here? We break down budgeting, financial discipline, and how to build real wealth, starting with

the mindset shifts. Too many of us were never, ever taught. Financial education is not always about, like, I'm going to get rich. That's great. It's about creating an atmosphere for you to be able to take care of yourself and leave a strong financial legacy for your family. If you've ever felt you didn't get the memo on money, this conversation is for you to hear more.

Listen to Money and Wealth with John O'Brien from the Black Effect Network on the I'd Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get. it, your podcast. Danielle Oliver Chauvey woke up in the middle of the night on February 8th, 2017, to find her house swarmed with police and FBI agents. Something's happening, and I have no idea why there's state police in my house with a gunpoint at me. So I think at that point, they were suspecting me.

They thought I was involved. But a suspect in what? Danielle would soon find out. Chan Skipper, her husband of nearly 20 years, and the father of their six children hadn't come home that night. He said he'd been renovating one of their rental properties. The police were screaming questions at her about where Chad was, asking if she had any hiding places in the house.

And most confusing of all, the police were asking about an elderly couple who taught Sunday school at their church. Why are you asking me questions about them? And where is my husband? The police wouldn't give her any information about what was happening or why they were at her. house. But it was clear that whatever it was, it was urgent. The police took her in and began a long

interrogation. I went into the interrogation room and they started asking me questions. They asked me about this couple and I was thinking, that's a weird question out of the blue. Why would you ask me specifically about these people? Yeah, we know them for sure. We've known them for a long time. They were also asking questions about the family's finances. Questions, Danielle, just didn't have the answers to. I was shaking. I was just so confused. Like, why are you asking me this?

All I was worried about was his safety, like if he was still alive. It didn't even dawn on me that it could be what it was. After hours of interrogation, the police let Danielle go. She went to a friend's house where her kids were waiting for her. She repeatedly tried to get in touch with Chad without any reply. Then, first thing, the next morning, her phone rang. It was Chad's father. He asked me, do you know where Chad is? And I said, no, do you? I said, I don't know anything. If you know anything, just tell me what's going

on because I need to know what's wrong with my husband on where he is. And his dad just said, there was a rumor going around that this couple has been kidnapped. And the rumor is also that Chad did it. My brain was not registering. It was like, wait, what? No, that's impossible. This is Chad we're talking about. That rumor's wrong.

And I was thinking, there's just no way that it's actually my husband. I know my husband would never do anything like this. That's not who he is. Unbeknownst to anyone, that couple from their church had been missing for three days. We're not saying their names because Danielle wants to respect their person.

privacy. Before this, they were friends, and Danielle believes that their story is their families to tell, just like her story is hers to tell. So for this episode, she's going to call them his victims. I had known them since I had met Chad. He had known them since the time he was born, because they were part of his church. They were our Sunday school teachers. We would often go over to their house, and sometimes we would have like a pool party. Sometimes it would be a Bible study. So we knew them really well. They were amazing people.

The day before police raided Danielle's house, a woman had walked into a bank and asked for a cashier's check for $350,000 from her own savings account. Before the teller cut the check, the woman slipped her a note. She was being held for ransom. Her captor was waiting down the block with her. husband in the trunk. If she didn't return to the car with the check, her kidnapper said he would kill her husband. She needed to walk out of that bank, check in hand. So they gave it to her and let her go. And as soon as she walked out of the door, the teller called the police. That call initiated a

statewide search for the kidnapped couple and their captor. Immediately, it became the top story on the local news. It all started just before 5 p.m. on Wednesday when the sheriff's office received a call from First Trust and Savings Bank in Albany. Investigators are working with the FBI, state police, and local agencies. It's a case they say that will shock this community. The morning after the raid, Danielle was still in the dark about what was happening. She was reeling and desperately trying to get in touch with her husband.

She didn't want to believe the wild theory that Chad could have kidnapped this elderly couple. That was until she saw his picture on the news. My whole world got flipped upside down. At that moment when I saw his picture and the police update and what he had done. Developing story in Whiteside County. Investigators say they've never seen anything quite like it.

The man accused of kidnapping a couple at gunpoint from Erie, Illinois, is facing four felony charges. in connection to the kidnapping. Chad Skipper handcuffed the couple to their bed and threatened to shoot them with his gun if they didn't pay him $350,000. At that point, all I knew was that he abducted somebody. And that's where I just broke down

and started crying my eyes out and fell to the floor and just didn't know what to do. In that moment, she understood why the police woke her up in the middle of the night. When the police knocked down my door asking if I had any hiding areas in the house. I'm sure they were looking for the people that he abducted. They were wanting to know if there was a place in that house

where they could be hidden. As far as they know, I know where the kidnapped victims are. Because I'm his wife. I mean, most people would assume that the wife would know. But I had no clue. Over the following days and weeks, Danielle discovered the full extent of her husband's horrifying crimes. This is what she learned.

A couple days before the police knocked down my door, he must have gone to their home. I think that's what the sledgehammer was for to break into their home. He had my daughter duct tape it with black duct tape so that the yellow handle wouldn't be seen in the dark. I heard that he had a voice changer and that he was all dressed in black. And I also heard that he broke into their home and sat in their kitchen for several hours before going upstairs to wake them. He just sat in their kitchen for hours in the middle of the night before he finally entered the bedroom where the elderly couple was sleeping.

He tased the guy and threatened his wife and then said, where is your God now? and took them from their home forcibly. They didn't even have a chance to get their clothes on. And I know that he had told them that it wasn't just him. Like he threatened them that it was like a group of people who were doing this. After the police showed up at the bank, they called in the FBI, who traced the cashier's check and found the couple's names and address. When they searched their home, they discovered signs of forced entry.

evidence of a deployed taser and small drops of blood in the bedroom. But the house was eerily quiet. No one was home. In fact, by the time the police were alerted, no one had heard from the couple in three days. He had her call around and tell a false story about them deciding to go on vacation. I think he even took their car to the airport. While Chad was committing this elaborate crime,

Danielle was at home taking care of their kids, going about her business just as usual, completely unaware that her husband had violently kidnapped their family friends and was holding them for ransom. But where was Chad? And where was he holding the couple? Danielle had no idea. When the police were finally alerted, they knew time was of the essence. They relied on the FBI and state police to use all resources possible to find. find the missing couple. Ransom kidnapping cases like this often end in tragedy, especially considering the money was already exchanged. They were running out of time. With each passing hour, the search grew increasingly urgent. Then the FBI got a tip about a car matching the

description of the one scene leaving the bank with the kidnapped victims, a silver 1990 Chevy Caprice. but Danielle didn't know anything about a Chevy Caprice. So maybe they had the wrong guy. The police tracked the car down, but when they went to pull it over, the driver sped up. It was all over the local news. Around 4.30 a.m., the car crashed here outside Port Byron.

We tried to affect a stop on that vehicle, and they took off at a high rate of speed. The police approached the crash vehicle and found that the driver was indeed Chad Skipper. He was injured but alive and arrested on the spot in connection with the kidnapping. Law enforcement was hoping to find the victims with Chad, alive in the trunk of his car, but no one else was with him. Instead, the police found clear plastic painters tarps, a saw, duct tape, and a shovel.

Now that Chad was arrested, the only priority was finding the missing couple. There were still a few places the police hadn't searched, Chad's rental properties. After he was arrested, Chad gave police the address where he said the couple was being held. When he was arrested, I thought that house was still rented. Like, I thought people were in the house renting it from us. When police showed up, it looked like a construction zone. The services were covered in sawdust and power tools.

The doors were taken off their hinges, and there was a ladder in the middle of the living room. But it also looked like someone had been squatting there. There was trash everywhere, plates of half-eaten food, electronic wires and cables dangled from the outlets. Police searched every room, but no one seemed to be in the house. Then they double-checked the bedroom, where they took a closer look at a computer monitor laying on the floor. It appeared to show a surveillance feed, six live feed images of a windowless room, where two figures were lying on a mattress covered by blankets. On the wall next to them were hooks and shackles.

There was a secret room somewhere in this house, and Chad's victims were in there. There's two golden rules that any man should live by. Rule one, never mess with a country girl. You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes. And Rule 2, never mess with her friends either. We always say that, trust your girlfriends. I'm Anna Sinfield, and in this new season of The Girlfriends... Oh my God, this is the same man.

A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist. I felt like I got hit by a truck. I thought, how could this happen to me? The cops didn't seem to care, so they take matters into their own hands. I said, oh, hell no. I vowed I will be his last target. He's going to get what he deserves. Listen to the girlfriends.

Trust me, babe. On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, everyone? I'm Ego Wodom. My next guest, you know from Step Brothers Anchorman, Saturday Night Live, and the Big Money Players Network,

it's Will Ferrell. Woo, woo, woo, woo. My dad gave me the best. advice ever. I went and had lunch with them one day and I was like, and dad, I think I want to really give this a shot. I don't know what that means, but I just know the groundlings. I'm working my way up through and I know it's a place that come look for up and coming talent. He said, if it was based solely on talent, I wouldn't worry about you, which is really sweet. Yeah. He goes, but there's so much luck involved. And he's like, just give it a shot. He goes, but if you ever reach a point where

you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit. If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration. It would not be on a calendar of, you know, the cat, just hang in there. Yeah, it would not be.

Right, it wouldn't be that. There's a lot of luck. Listen to Thanks, Dad, on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. You can have opinions. You can have like a strong stance. and then there's your body having its own program. I'm Dr. Maya Shunker, a cognitive scientist and hosts of the podcast a slight change of plans,

a show about who we are and who we become when life makes other plans. We share stories and scientific insights to help us all better navigate these periods of turbulence and transformation. There is one finding that is consistent, and that is that our resilience rests on our relationships. I wish that I hadn't resisted for so long the need to change. We have to be willing to live with a kind of uncertainty that none of us likes. Listen to a slight change of plans on the I-Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On a recent episode of the podcast, Money and Wealth with John Ho' Bryant, I sit down with

Tiffany the Buccaneista Aliche to talk about what it really takes to take control of your money. look like in our families if everyone was able to pass on wealth to the people when they're no longer here. We break down budgeting, financial discipline, and how to build real wealth, starting with the mindset shifts. Too many of us were never, ever taught. Financial education is not always about, like, I'm going to get rich. That's great.

It's about creating an atmosphere for you to be able to take care of yourself and leave a strong financial legacy for your family. If you've ever felt you didn't get the memo on money, this conversation is for you to hear more. Listen to Money and Wealth with John O'Brien from the Black Effect Network on the I'd Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. The night of Chad's arrest, police began searching one of his rental properties for a secret room, a dungeon, where he was holding two people captive. From what they could see on the surveillance feed, it was a window-loyal. room somewhere in the house. The couple was lying motionless

on a mattress. It wasn't clear if they were alive. But then, one of the FBI agents moved a dresser in the closet and lifted up a piece of carpeting to reveal a locked steel hatch. And the only entry in exit to that dungeon room was through a steel

trap door with a lock on the outside in a closet hidden under a dresser or something. He walled it off with cement blocks and soundproofing. You would only know it was there if you knew it was there. Police used bulk cutters to open the door.

They found an eight-foot drop into a dark windowless room. And they went in. That's where they discovered the couple, miraculously still alive. They had been tortured and chained. Chad said he had people watching

their kids and grandkids. So if they tried to escape or get help, he would kill them. They were in that dungeon for a couple of days. I can't even imagine thinking that you're going to die, thinking that your children are going to die, hooked up on this thing, your hands up in the air for so many hours that you're basically shaking and can't even stand

and having their kids and grandkids threatened. Once he got the money, he was planning to kill. them. I mean, what's he going to do? Go, oh, I'm going to let you go now. Forgive me. Everything's fine. How else could it end? And judging by the contents of his car, it seemed like he meant it. This what if still haunts Danielle. Chad was charged with felony home invasion, aggravated kidnapping, an unlawful restraint. His bail was set at a million dollars. Over night, Danielle, Danielle had to reckon with the fact that her husband of nearly two decades and the father of her children was capable of a violent crime. In addition to processing that shock, she didn't understand why.

Was it all for the money? I didn't know that we were having financial trouble. I'm a penny pincher. So I don't know where all the money was going and I don't know why he needed that. To answer that question, Danielle started looking through Chad's basement office. There, she made a series of shocking discoveries. First, why he targeted the people he did. He had gotten a hold of their finances and knew how much they had in the bank.

Because he had asked them to be clients of his or his fake financial business. His fake financial business. She also found out that he was never actually a certified financial advisor or planner. So what did he do for a living? From what she gathered in his office, he charmed elderly people into letting him be their financial advisor, where he would skim from their accounts for years. In fact, after he was arrested, his own parents sued him for stealing over $400,000, while he claimed to serve as their financial advisor. But not only did he steal from his own parents, He also stole from his grandmother.

It was around that same amount, something like 300,000. Maybe he felt like he needed to steal that from his victims in order to repay the money that he had stolen from his grandma. He never confessed to this, but it added up for Danielle. What never made sense, though, was the construction of the dungeon. I found the plans and bills from it in his office. Chad had been hiring a contractor to build the dungeon piece by piece over the past two years. I can't even imagine how much that cost.

It had been thousands upon thousands. And I don't think the person who did it ever got paid, honestly. The shocking fact that he'd built a dungeon to hold the kidnapping victims kept the story in the headlines for months. In a News Aid exclusive tonight, investigative reporter Chris Minor shows us a photo of that actual room where it's believed the couple was held against their will. Danielle never slept another night in the big house that she and Chad had shared with their kids. I did not want the kids to be back in the house knowing that he had done that, knowing that he was capable of kidnapping people that he'd known for his whole life.

I didn't want them back into that house, and I didn't want to live in that house anymore. She and her kids moved into her parents' home while she got her bearings. For the first few months after Chad's arrest, Danielle's dad would accompany her to the old house to continue excavating Chad's office. The police had already collected the evidence they needed, and she was left to clean up the rest. Every day that we went into his office, there was another thing. Oh, he lied about this next day. Oh, he lied about that too.

I remember at one point we were both looking at each other on our way to the house thinking, I wonder what else we're going to find in his office today. What else could there be? There was insurance fraud. One of the things we found in his office was that he actually claimed that my wedding ring was lost and took insurance out for it. So even our wedding ring, he lied about. There was credit card fraud.

He had fraudulently signed credit cards in his dad's name. You've gotten credit cards in my name. He had forged my name. She also found lies about herself, stories she'd never heard before. We found several papers that had conversations written down on them that had lies about me as far as like I had to go have a brain surgery in Minnesota or somewhere. just lies like that in order to gain control or gain sympathy from the people that he was talking to.

There were just like conversations written down on a piece of paper. Some of them were to credit card companies because it was with credit card stuff. Some of it was two different potential clients that he was going to have. And some things she discovered were just suspicious. Hiking boots that he never wore. a wetsuit that was still wet and had a little bit of dirt on the cuff.

And, you know, it's like, he did never go scuba diving. So why does he have a wetsuit? And where would he have used to the wetsuit? In the Mississippi River? You know? Just strange things that we never found an answer to. One of the most haunting things she found in his office

was a set of life insurance policies on everyone in their family. Policies she never knew existed. You had life insurance policies out on me and the kids. I think mine was a million. And I think my kids were a quarter of a million each. It messes with your mind really hard. I never felt like I was threatened or my kids were threatened for our lives.

It was only after his arrest and when we started going through the stuff in his office, that I was like, whoa, if I had confronted him, about any of this stuff if I had known about it, I don't think I would be here. Danielle didn't want his explanations. She cooperated with the police and prosecutors and gave them any evidence they needed. One of the things that the police told me

is that in all of their cases, they said they have never come across a case that was so cut and dried with the amount of evidence for this guy. I was like, wow. And he thought he was so smart. She sent him one letter in jail, where she said she would be praying for him but needed to cut off communication. After that, she filed for divorce.

But letters from Chad never stopped coming. Every few weeks, there'd be that distinctive envelope in their mailbox. Every time I got a letter from him, my whole body would just shake. I would get sweaty, palms, hard to breathe. But as soon as I saw that envelope, I'm like, not enough. other one. She never replied, hoping his letters would finally stop coming. But one day, she got a letter that was different from the others.

On the outside of the envelope, it was not addressed as him. It was addressed as Elisa May. And that threw me because I'm like, well, this is definitely a letter from that jail. But Eloisa May is kind of weird. I don't know in Elisa May. And there was no, like, I'd return address. It was just the name. And so when I opened it and it wasn't in his writing either, I was thinking, okay, that's weird too.

There's something off. The whole letter is written in this weird southern accent. I felt like I was reading Huckleberry Finn. This is how the letter began. Howdy there, Missy? My name is Elieza May. You don't know me, honey, child, but maybe we can remedy that with this here letter. There's two golden rules that any man should live in. by. Rule one, never mess with a country girl. You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes.

And rule two, never mess with her friends either. We always say that trust your girlfriends. I'm Anna Sinfield, and in this new season of the girlfriends, oh my God, this is the same man. A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist. I felt like I got hit by a truck. I thought, how could this happen to me? The cops didn't seem to care. So they take matters into their own hands. I said, oh, hell no. I vowed I will be his last target. He's going to get what he deserves.

Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Ego Wodom. My next guest, you know from Step Brothers Anchorman, Saturday Night Live, and the Big Money Players Network. It's Will Ferrell. Woo, woo, woo, woo.

My dad gave me the best advice ever. I went and had lunch with them one day. And I was like, and dad, I think I want to really give this a shot. I don't know what that means, but I just know the groundlings. I'm working my way up through and I know it's a place that come look for up and coming talent. He said, if it was based solely on talent, I wouldn't worry about you, which is really sweet. Yeah. He goes, but there's so much luck involved.

And he's like, just give it a shot. He goes, but if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't. feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit. If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration. It would not be on a calendar of, you know, the cat, just hang in there. Yeah, it would not be. Right, it wouldn't be that. There's a lot of luck.

Yeah. Listen to Thanks Dad on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. You can have opinions, you can have like a strong stance. And then there's your body. having its own program. I'm Dr. Maya Shunker, a cognitive scientist and hosts of the podcast, a slight change of plans, a show about who we are and who we become when life makes other plans.

We share stories and scientific insights to help us all better navigate these periods of turbulence and transformation. There is one finding that is consistent, and that is that our resilience rests on our relationships. I wish that I hadn't resisted for so long the need to change. We have to be willing to live with a kind of uncertainty that none of us likes. Listen to a slight change of plans on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On a recent episode of the podcast Money and Wealth with John Ho'Brien, I sit down with Tiffany the budgetista Aliche to talk about what it really takes to take control of your money.

What would that look like in our families if everyone was able to pass on wealth to the people when they're no longer here? We break down budgeting, financial discipline, and how to build real wealth, starting with the mindset shifts. Too many of us were never, ever taught. Financial education is not always about, like, I'm going to get rich. That's great. It's about creating an atmosphere for you to be able to take care of yourself and leave a strong financial legacy for your family. If you've ever felt you didn't get the memo on money, this conversation is for you to hear more. Listen to Money and Wealth with John O'Brien from the Black Effect Network on the I'd Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

While Chad sat in jail, Danielle was trying to rebuild her life. That's when she began to get strange letters in the mail. The return address just said the name Eloisa May. This is what the letters were about. It's this fake character who supposedly lives, I think, in Arkansas or something, but she moved to Illinois because her daughter is in Illinois. She had a stroke, and so now she's in the hospital, and she came across my story,

and she starts telling me how her husband was an alcoholic, and at one point he physically abused her, and so she left him and went to live with his parents. Finally, Chad, or Eloisa May got to the point. She ended up deciding to get a divorce because, you know, she didn't want to deal with his abusive, addictive issues. He ended up killing himself. And because of her decision to get a divorce, her daughter and son are having issues in their lives. And they take the blame for him dying.

I felt like it was a threat. If you divorce me, I'm going to kill myself and your kids are. going to feel like it was their fault. That's the feeling I got from the letter. The letters were four, five, six pages long, written in a tiny, neat handwriting that didn't look like Chad's at all. She assumed that either he was disguising his handwriting or got someone in the jail to write it for him while he dictated.

Either way, the character Chad was putting on was so transparently manipulative. He didn't directly say, how can you divorce me, but through the character of Elisa May, was basically saying that. She suspects that he made the character Southern to try to pull on Danielle's heartstrings because her grandmother was from the South. A little bit later he goes,

I feel the good Lord telling me to do something and I got a little eager, Danielle, sugar. And may I declare, darling? That is one of the most beautiful and unique names I've ever heard, something we have in common, sweetie. Chad also used his extensive knowledge of the Bible to try and make Danielle question her decisions. He basically has a sermon in there and quotes Bible passages about God hates divorce and gives me examples of different characters in the Bible who wanted to get a divorce

but didn't because it's not the right thing to do. The Eloise May letters almost amused her, but they also felt like an insult. Did he really think she would fall for this? I think he had a very, very low opinion of me, or it still does. I struggle with that, with my marriage, too, because he treated me like a child. She kept the Aloisa May letters to remind herself of just how delusional and scheming Chad really was. A year after his arrest, Chad pled guilty.

But before he faced a sentencing hearing for the kidnapping, they had their divorce trial. He actually did not have a lawyer to do those proceedings. He was pro se, and so he questioned me on the stand, which was really, really nerve-wracking. Danielle was awarded full custody, and shortly after she attended her ex-husband's sentencing hearing. It started with the victim's statements. There were no dry eyes in that courtroom. They're amazing people. The judge was stunned by Chad's crime,

especially the premeditation that had gone into building the dungeon and the torture the victims endured. From what the judge said when he sentenced him, he wanted people to know this is not acceptable in society. Like, it's heinous. You can't just do that type of a crime and get away with it. The judge gave Chad the maximum sentence possible. Today, Chad Skipper in a packed courtroom listened as he awaited his jail sentence.

Sixty years the rest of his life in prison. I was thinking he was only going to get 20 years. And so when it was 60, I was surprised. Surprised, but grateful. She sees how dangerous Chad is and doesn't want him anywhere near her or their children ever again. She says she forgives him. But forgiveness can include bad. boundaries. I have a big, big problem with some of the ways that Christian pastors portray forgiveness,

that every marriage, 100% of marriages can be resolved. And I was like, that is very, very untrue, and very, very dangerous to say. If there's an abuse happening, that's not true. Danielle decided to stay in that small town of Erie, Illinois. Chad's victims still live there too, and Danielle has seen them around town. I have seen them. Yeah, I've seen them, I've seen their kids. You know, I smile at them when they see me. I don't know if they recognize me or not.

I don't know if they see me when I see them. I really don't know. She's even thought about reaching out to apologize for the pain her husband caused and to grieve with them. I would love to talk to them directly. I haven't because when I was speaking with my lawyer and also the police even said something about don't reach out and so I just kind of like took a step back. I don't even know what their thoughts are towards me

if they feel like I was part of it or if they know that I had no idea what was going on. One of the reasons why I haven't reached out is because I really don't want to cause them more pain. Some people in their community just didn't believe that Danielle was in the dark about her husband's double life. When you first was arrested, there were some posts on Facebook about it. People were saying, oh, she knew and all that kind of stuff. Around town, she's noticed that people don't smile and wave as much as they used to.

I haven't had anybody approach me and accuse me of anything. It's just, you know, when you're walking around in a small town, sometimes, you get looks, just kind of a weird side look. Like, I know who you are. Don't look at me. Don't interact with me. She's had to reckon with blaming herself for not knowing who her husband actually was.

And what he was really doing all those nights, he claimed to be in the basement working. I couldn't have known. He didn't show that part of himself to me. All I know is the life that he had with me and our kids. That's all I saw. He was able to do everything else completely separate. I can't blame myself for something that he did without me knowing.

As part of her healing process, she's learned about people like Chad and the tactics they use, tactics that felt very familiar. When I was doing my studies of narcissistic behavior, one of the things that really spoke to me was a thing called word salad. And I totally was like, yep, that's exactly what it was. Just words that twist anything that I said would twist it around and jumbled it up like a salad and then shoot it back at me. And my mind would just be like, I don't even know what's going on. These kinds of things helped her understand how he had subtly manipulated her for so long. But that didn't ease the self-blame or the sense that she couldn't trust anyone around her or even herself.

If my husband can pull the wool over Maya so easily and I thought that he was an amazing person, Does that mean that this amazing person can also pull the wool over my eyes? Like, what are they actually behind closed doors? Are they the person that they are presenting to me as, you know, a loving brother, a loving friend? But then when we are not in each other's presence, are they somebody else? Like, okay, this pastor seems like he is everything that a pastor should be. But now that I've been through what I've been through, is he who he says he is? Or is this just his presentation of who he says he is?

For Danielle, trusting the wrong person, building a life with them, left her all alone and a single parent. All the weight of the responsibility is now mine. Because I know I had six kids and I had support them now. She found work as an online English tutor. And she built a business writing, and selling knitting patterns. My business is called knitting nicely, but then nicely spoke with a K-N.

I'm really proud that I have a business that I absolutely love and enjoy. After her divorce, she decided that she was done with romantic relationships. My whole view of the loving, caring relationship of marriage got trashed. Even when I would see couples in church or shopping, holding hands,

or I would see a post about somebody celebrating an anniversary. It would kind of turn my stomach. It just felt ew to me because of what I went through. You know, having trust in someone and then having that trust completely destroyed. I didn't want to go through what I went through again. I didn't want to put my kids through that again. So for me, I was like, okay, I am going to do this single mom thing

and we're going to make it. But then... But then, she saw a post on Facebook from her high school boyfriend, Billy, the one who proposed to her 30 years ago. They'd since drifted apart and hadn't talked in nearly a decade. But in his post, she saw that his fiancé had recently passed away. So she reached out to lend support. We were just like being there for each other.

You know, I kind of wanted to uplift him and make him come out of the hole that I felt like he was about to go into, just to have somebody to talk to, to be able to laugh with. But then the conversations got longer, and then we ended up staying up all night talking over Messenger. And my daughter was starting to say, who is this that you're talking to all this time? And I think she knew before I knew that I was starting to fall in love again.

Danielle and Billy planned a FaceTime call, where they would see each other for the first time in years. And as soon as I saw his smiling face, I knew that was it. I was going to pursue that relationship, for sure. The trust issue was not even an issue in the situation. Because I had known him from when I was a teenager, there wasn't that, is he really who he says he is? Question.

So they started dating again. Both of us were like, this is weird. How could this actually be happening again? Donnie and Billy 2.0. After a few months of dating again, they got married, surrounded by their families at the Thanksgiving table. So we had Thanksgiving dinner, and then between Thanksgiving dinner and dessert is when the wedding happened.

Yeah, it was really cool. I loved it. Wouldn't have it any other way. We end all of our weekly episodes with the same question. Why did you want to tell your story? Knowing that you're not alone is so helpful. That's huge for people who've gone through stuff like that. That was one of the main things that helped me. Knowing that people have actually survived it and are happy again, that was really huge.

My main reason for wanting to tell my story is to give people hope that even though you may feel like your world is upside down. it can never become upside up again. There is a light at the tunnel. Maybe really tiny and small. Might be a little tiny speck. But there is a light. If you would like to reach out to the betrayal team or want to tell us your betrayal story,

email us at Betrayalpod at gmail.com. That's Betrayal P-O-D at Gmail.com. We're grateful for your support. One way to show support is by subscribing to our show on Apple Podcasts. And don't forget to rate and review betrayal. Five-star reviews go a long way. A big thank you to all of our listeners. Betrayal is a production of Glass Podcasts,

a division of Glass Entertainment Group and partnership with IHeart Podcasts. The show is executive produced by Nancy Glass and Jennifer Fasin. Hosted and produced by me, Andrea Gunning. Written and produced by Monique Laborde. Also produced by Ben Federman. Associate producers are Kristen Mulcuri

and Caitlin Golden. Our I-Heart team is Ali Perry and Jessica Crinecheck. Audio editing and mixing by Matt Dalvecchio. Additional editing support from Nico Aruka. Betrayals theme composed by Oliver Baines. Music library provided by Mib Music. And for more podcasts from IHeart,

visit the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, everyone? I'm Ego Vodom. My next guest, it's Will Ferrell. Woo, woo, woo, woo. My dad gave me the best advice. He goes, just give it a shot.

But if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit. If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration. It would not be on a calendar of, you know, the cat. Just hang in there. Yeah, it would not be. Right, it wouldn't be that. There's a lot of luck.

Listen to Thanks Dad on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. When a group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist, they take matters into their own hands. I vowed, I will be his last target. He is not going to get away with this. He's going to get what he deserves. We always say that, trust your girlfriends. Listen to the girlfriends, trust me, babe, on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hey, I'm Dr. Meyer. Shunker, a cognitive scientist and hosts of the podcast a slight change of plans, a show about who we are and who we become when life makes other plans. I wish that I hadn't resisted for so long the need to change. We have to be willing to live with a kind of uncertainty that none of us likes. You can have opinions. You can have like a strong stance. And then there's your body having its own program. to a slight change of plans on the I-HeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hi listeners. I'm Jamal Jordan, the host of Roershack Murder at City Hall podcast. In July 2003, Councilman James E. Davis, an ambitious rising star in Brooklyn politics, was murdered inside New York City Hall, shot to death in front of more than 200 people. The killer? His political opponent, a man named Neil Askew. The full story of this shocking public murder and the relationship between these two men

has not yet been told. Until now. I want to let you know that you can get access to all episodes of Rochak Murder at City Hall 100% ad-free with an I-Heart true crime plus subscription available exclusively on Apple Podcasts. Plus, you'll get access to all episodes of Rochak Murder at City Hall

one week ahead of everyone else, available only to Iheart True Crime Plus subscribers. So don't wait. Heads Apple Podcasts, search for IHeart True Crime Plus, and subscribe today. This is an IHeart podcast,

Guaranteed Human.