Betrayal Weekly - In The Dark | EP 1 | Saskia's Story

Episode Date: January 29, 2026

When Saskia wakes up in the middle of the night, she sees something she can never unsee. In the Season 5 premiere of Betrayal, a hidden life begins to surface.   If you would like to reach out to the Betrayal Team, email us at [e-mail]. Follow us on Instagram @betrayalpod and @glasspodcasts. Follow our newsletter and join the Betrayal community at betrayal.substack.com. For resources on sexual violence, visit rainn.org/betrayal. You can also get free, confidential, 24/7 support through RAINN’s National Sexual Assault Hotline. Text HOPE to 64673 or call 1-800-656-HOPE. Every state has a domestic violence coalition, and many counties also have resources available. If you’re looking for help, go onto your county’s website to see what resources are available locally, or search the web for your state’s domestic violence coalition. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. What's up, everyone? I'm Ago Vodam. My next guest, it's Will Ferrell. Woo, woo, woo, woo, woo. My dad gave me the best advice ever. He goes, just give it a shot.

But if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit. If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration. It would not be on a calendar of, you know, The cat, just hang in there. Yeah, it would not be. Right, it wouldn't be that. There's a lot of luck. Listen to Thanks, Dad, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

Hey, I'm Dr. Maya Shunker, a cognitive scientist and hosts of the podcast, a slight change of plans, a show about who we are and who we become when life makes other plans. I wish that I hadn't resisted for so long the need to change. We have to be willing to live. with a kind of uncertainty that none of us likes. You can have opinions. You can have like a strong stance. And then there's your body having its own program. Listen to a slight change of plans on the I-HeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

It's Financial Literacy Month, and the podcast, Eating While Broke, is bringing real conversations about money, growth, and building your future. This month, hear from top streamer, Zoe Spencer, and venture capitalist Lakeisha Landrum-Pierre, as they share their journeys from starting out to leveling up. There's an economic component to communities thriving. If there's not enough money and entrepreneurship happening in communities, they fail. Listen to Eating While Broke from the Black Effect Podcast Network

on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. On a recent episode of the podcast, Money and Wealth with John Hope Bryant, I sit down with Tiffany the budgetista aliche to talk about what it really takes to take control of your money. What would that look like in our families if everyone was able to pass on wealth

to the people when they're no longer here? We break down budgeting, financial discipline, and how to build real wealth starting with the mindset shifts too many of us were never, ever taught. If you've ever felt you didn't get the memo on money, this conversation is for you to hear more. Listen to money and wealth with John Hope

Brian from the Black Effect Network on the I'd Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Hi, everyone, Andre here. I have some exciting news to share. ABC has turned Betrayal Weekly into an eight-episode anthology, which means each episode features one of your favorite Betrayal Weekly stories. You'll get to see the people involved, hear from people who have never spoken before, and actually see where the story took place. We are so proud and excited to share it with you all. It's called Betrayal Secrets and Lies, and you can watch it every Sunday at 10 p.m. Eastern Standard Time, 9 p.m. Central. Please check it out.

On the morning of October 28, 2018, Saskia woke up in the same bed she always did. It was the bed she'd shared with her husband for years. She felt her regular cotton sheets around her, and she opened her eyes to the same white ceiling. But this morning was different. Because the night before, Saskia had seen something. I told myself, this is really important,

and I need to remember anything that I can. In the middle of the night, she awoke in a haze to find her husband on his laptop. His face was a glow in the light of his screen. What was on that screen, she knew would change her life forever. I was so out of it. It was like I was in a dream,

but I also knew that this was really serious. I told myself, you have to remember this. I just knew. And I passed back out. In the morning, she could still picture it. Flashes of one image ran through her mind. It was a window into a life,

her husband never planned for her to see. And so I woke up feeling so scared, like petrified. I didn't know what I was looking at, but I knew that he was doing something in secret. It felt like I was in danger. And I knew that I had to confirm him and find out what was going on. That morning marked the end of a marriage, of a family. But with that ending, came a,

a new dawn. Sasquia didn't know it at the time, but in climbing out of bed that morning, she was finally climbing out of the dark. I told him I needed to talk to him. I had his laptop, and I told him what I had seen the night before. I said, I need you to tell me exactly what you're doing. And I'm not going to tell the police if you totally come clean. And immediately, the mask came off. I'm Andrea Gunning, and this is Betrayal Season 5. Episode 1 In the Dark. This season is about a crime our team had never heard of before.

That is, until we heard about it from a listener. She was a woman in the Midwest, a mom. Over the course of a few months and many phone calls, she told us the story of what happened to her. And the crime she described horrified us. We couldn't imagine how anyone could do something so cruel to someone they loved. But then we heard from another listener and another and another. That mom in the Midwest wasn't alone.

Dozens of women were discovering the same thing. The husbands they knew in the light of day were different people when the lights went out. One of these women was Saskia Inwood. After getting to know Saskia over the last year, we drove down to visit her in Maryland. She welcomed us into her home. Today, Saskia has a full, beautiful life. She's got a great job, two thriving kids, a house full of pets, friends who'd do anything for her. But it was a long road to get here.

For a while, it was difficult to even leave her house. Being around people that just had normal lives or happy relationships. relationships or we're talking about. I don't know what they bought at the store. It just wasn't where I was at, so it was easier for me to isolate. And everything went dark for me. Since that morning seven years ago, Saskis overcome something unimaginable, a betrayal that threatened everything.

It was clear to me that Ms. Inwood was comatose, not asleep, but comatose. unconscious. It was a betrayal that altered her sense of reality. It shattered her ability to feel safe in her own home, and even in her own body. You pretended to support me through my ups and downs. Never once letting on that you were using me. By signing her marriage certificate, Saskia had no idea all that she was signing away, and that the man she was marrying would try to break her.

You're a dangerous person who prays unvulnerable and trusting people. You're a predator, Michael Lundon Good. On our trip down to Maryland, we spent a lot of time with Saskia's friends. She's had the same group since elementary school. For the most part, they haven't ventured far from home, which is Montgomery County, Maryland, about an hour outside of D.C. This group around Saskia, they're her people. They've been there since day one.

When we asked her friends what they're saying, love most about Saskia, so many of them pointed to one thing. That Saska laugh. That is the most genuine, heartfelt laugh. Her laugh alone cracks me up. That's Melissa. And here's another friend, Carrie. She has this, it's like not a cackle because it's beautiful.

She'll be like, ha ha ha ha, I can't even do it. But I think I was close, though. Saskia's got a great sense of humor. And when it comes to dating, she's always, looked for the same in other people. Here's Saskia. I always liked someone, you know, just making jokes, someone fun, silly, goofy, don't like to talk about work when I'm not at work, that kind of stuff. In her 20s, she liked guys with big laughs, big personalities, guys who didn't take themselves too seriously. But yeah, usually that came with not being the most responsible people

in life. Some of the men she dated were unemployed. Others had a habit of. of getting into trouble. I remember I had one boyfriend who was shoplifting when I was with him, and we both got in trouble, even though it wasn't shoplifting. He felt terrible. It was like, let her go home, and they were like, no. When she was 28, she met the man who'd become the father of her kids. We'll call him Chris.

We met at a Jaw Works concert. It's a reggae band. Chris seemed a little more responsible. He'd served in the Army, but he was also the life of the party. just like the other guys from Saskia's past. I thought he was really good looking and funny and silly. So we started dating and things went pretty fast after that. Within a year, they decided to move in together.

And then literally two weeks after that, I found out that I was pregnant. Saskia was thrilled. At the time, she was a social worker in child welfare. And she always knew that she wanted children of her own. They had a girl, Alyssa. Alyssa was the cutest baby in the world. I'll have to show you guys pictures. You'll die.

She was just chunky and so cute. She and Chris wanted to make their little family official. And we took her a little stroller to the Justice of the Peace, and we got married. After that, they had another baby, a boy. We were ecstatic. We high-fived in the sonogram room because it was the first boy on his side of the family. And Alyssa loved her little brother. She was always holding his hand and pulling in places.

Being a mom was a dream, but Saskia felt alone in her marriage. After five years, Chris just didn't feel like her person. I felt like he didn't care about any of my needs or my wants. I've always wanted love and that wasn't it. So she asked Chris for a divorce. and he basically told me you can leave. He didn't fight for her. Even though she had asked for the separation, it wasn't easy.

They had a years-long custody battle. It was a very, very painful, difficult divorce. I felt very unsteady and scared during that period. During this time, she leaned on her older sister, Marisa. Of all the women's surroundings, surrounding Saskia, all the people you'll hear from this season, Marisa is Saskia's rock. She drove Saskia to every one of our interviews, and she sat in the next room while we talked, just so Saskia could feel her support.

Saskia is my best friend. Over my lifetime, she's been the one person that I can be myself around and say anything to, and I feel like that's mutual. When Sosia first moved out, she stayed with Marisa. Marisa saw her sister cope with the separation. She was fragile, you know, definitely wanted it to work and did not want to be moving on and becoming a single parent to two little kids. I remember her crying a lot. But at the same time, she was strong.

She went out and got herself an apartment. She networked with her friends. she found her resilience. I was really proud of her. Here's Saski again. I didn't wait very long. After splitting up, getting my own apartment before I started looking for somebody,

I definitely wish that I would have healed from my first marriage, but I think that there was just so much work to do that I had no idea. I had to do that I felt like I would find the answers in another person. Marisa could see how important it was to her sister to find a partner.

Companionship is part of what gives us solace through hard times. You know what I mean? That social interaction and being loved by somebody, it's like soothing. So I feel like she's always wanted that in her life. But Saskiya knew if she wanted a real partner, she might have to go for something different to look beyond her usual bad boys. So my sister helped me make a person. profile a match.

Marisa pushed her to look for someone driven, established in their career. I was encouraging her to be choosy. She's always had professional careers, and she's always been really great at her job because of her empathy and her compassion and her, you know, all of those strengths that she has. Saskia gave match her best shot. She went on a few dates, but no one impressed her. I was about to throw in the towel and just say, I don't feel like doing this anymore.

And that's when she found Mike. His pictures seemed really sweet. There was one of him with a dog, which, of course, tugs at my heart, and then he had a picture of him with his two daughters. He was in the midst of a divorce, too. He was a single parent, a girl dad, and he had a good job.

He worked for Bank of America. He was a vice president in marketing. Mike was the quintessence. good guy. The safe choice. And safe was exactly what Saskia was looking for. My wish in life was to have true love and to have someone to be a good stepdad to my kids. And Mike seemed like the perfect guy. There's two golden rules that any man should live by. Rule one, never mess with a country girl. You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes. And Rule 2, never mess with her friends either.

We always say that, trust your girlfriends. I'm Anna Sinfield, and in this new season of The Girlfriends... Oh my God, this is the same man. A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist. I felt like I got hit by a truck. I thought, how could this happen to me? The cops didn't seem to care. So they take matters into their own hands.

I said, oh, hell no. I vowed I will be his last target. He's going to get what he deserves. Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. I'm Ago Vodam. My next guest, you know from Step Brothers Anchorman, Saturday Night Live,

and the Big Money Players Network, it's Will Ferrell. My dad gave me the best advice ever. I went and had lunch with him one day. And I was like, and Dad, I think I want to really give this a shot. I don't know what that means, but I just know the groundlings. I'm working my way up through, and I know it's a place that come look for up and coming talent. He said, if it was based solely on talent, I wouldn't worry about you, which is really sweet. Yeah.

He goes, but there's so much luck involved. And he's like, just give it a shot. He goes, but if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit. If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration. It would not be on a calendar of, you know, the cat. Just hang in there. Yeah, it would not be. Right, it wouldn't be that.

There's a lot of luck. Listen to Thanks Dad on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. You can have opinions. You can have like a strong stance. And then there's your body having its own program. I'm Dr. Maya Shunker, a cognitive scientist and hosts of the podcast a slight change of plans, a show about who we are and who we become when life makes other plans. We share stories and scientific insights to help us all better navigate these periods of turbulence and transformation.

There is one finding that is consistent, and that is that our resilience rests on our relationships. I wish that I hadn't resisted for so long the need to change. We have to be willing to live with a kind of uncertainty that none of us likes. Listen to a slight change of plans on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, Ernest, what's up? Look, money is something we all deal with, but financial literacy is what helps turn income into real wealth. On each episode of the podcast, Earn Your Leisure, we break down the conversations you need to understand money. money, investing, and entrepreneurship.

From stocks and real estate to credit, business, and generational wealth, we translate complex financial topics into real conversations everyone can understand. Because the truth is, most people will never taught how money really works. But once you understand the system, you can start to build within it. That means ownership, smarter investing, and creating opportunities not just for yourself, but for the next generation. If you want to learn how to build wealth, understand the markets, and think like an owner, Earn Your Leisure is the podcast for you.

Listen to Earn Your Leisure on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Saskia was ready to give up on dating when one profile caught her eye. Mike looked gentle. He was a girl dad with a kind smile and kind eyes. So I think I waved, winked, whatever you do. And he responded back. And then we started communicating. and he asked for a date pretty quickly.

The first date was casual. They met at a brewery. And we were going to have a couple drinks at the bar. But that night, the bar was packed. So they sat us at the most uncomfortable, awkward, twosome spot in the restaurant. Immediately, one thing was clear. He was not the type of person I usually go for at all. He was a little bit nerdy.

He had a glass of wine. And he was, like, stirring his wine, which I thought was weird. He talked a lot about his job and things like that. Just wasn't as jokey as I'm used to. Saskia was used to guys who would crush a few beers in the first hour. Guys who would have one eye on the game the whole date. Mike and his buttoned-down shirt and skinny jeans, swirling his wine, was anything but. I just kind of wanted to get through the date.

And I remember afterwards telling my sister, like, he was nice. He's successful. everything on paper sounds good, but I'm not sure if it was there. And I remember my sister saying, if he's not your usual type, that could be a good thing. I actually encouraged her to go on a second date with him. I said some guys are more second date material. Maybe him being timid. On the first date means he's a regular guy.

You know, not everybody has to be a huge personality off the gate. Saskia gave him another shot. And in round two, Mike started to grow on her. We were going to meet for a second date, and I think I had something come up with the kids, so he suggested that we have a phone date and grab a glass of wine and we can talk. I'm not a phone person, and it wasn't something that I thought that I would enjoy, but I thought it was really cute and endearing. By their third date, they both were a little more at ease.

They got sushi, and the date went well enough that Saskia, brought him out with her co-workers. My friend was having a little birthday get together, and we drove over to the bar, and everyone's just having fun, drinking, taking shots. And after the party, Saskia took Mike home. He slept over. In the morning, we ended up being intimate,

and I was like, I can get with this. I could do this. He was in really good shape. It felt like we had really good chemistry. It wasn't wild. It wasn't crazy. It just felt good. She started to see Mike in a new light.

He made her feel safe and comfortable. And then it just kind of picked up after that. After a month of dating, it was time for Mike to meet Saskia's friend group. This wasn't an easy crowd to jump into. After all, they've known each other forever. Here's another one of Saskia's friends, Bridget. We just keep it real.

We've known each other so. long that we're not going to sugarcoat anything. If we see a red flag, we're going to be like, what are you doing? You're an idiot. Like, let me tell you what I see. Bridget's a tough critic. And knowing all that Saskia had been through, she wasn't sure if she was going to like Mike. When she just got out of this one marriage, I was very protective. And I thought the world of him. I thought he was great. And I was like, finally, she deserves this. She deserves to be happy. Here's another friend, Heather. I liked him right away. I thought he was.

really nice. He seemed kind. He seemed gentle. I just thought he was put together. Marisa, Saskia's sister, liked him too. Normal guy seems even keeled. He's not overly showy trying to impress us. He's being polite. He's being respectful. Okay, you know, maybe this guy will work. With her friends and sisters' approval, any doubt Saskia had about Mike went away. Everybody from the get-go thought that he was just a catch. Mike was a great boyfriend. He took Saskia on nice dates,

basketball games, fancy dinners, massages. He had plenty of money for us to do nice things and made me feel really special and important that he wanted to do these fun things with me and that I was worth that to him. But right as Mike started to get serious, Saskia pulled away. She was still in the middle of her custody battle.

She didn't have room for one more thing on her plate. There was one time where I was having like a breakdown about stuff with the kids' dad. And I just said, I can't deal with you right now. Like I'm going through too much. And he was like, no, I'm coming over. Let me help you through this. That night, he went over. He wanted to be there.

He said, I will never hurt you. I will always be here for you. Don't run away. Let me help you. He showed up for her. She'd never had that before. From then on out, Mike was Team Saskia. A teammate, a partner,

someone that was on her side. He helped me to feel like my life was going to go on and that I could have a positive future despite what happened with my ex. As friends and family got to know Mike, they saw just how much he had to offer. Here's her friend, Megan. He was like a night and shining armor. I mean,

she dated guys without a job. And then you get Mike and he's like vice president at the bank. And he was just like this stand-up guy with a great job and two kids. I mean, it looked great. At the time, Megan was actually married to one of Saskia's older brothers. And her brothers didn't really get Mike. They thought he was like a dork, you know, they watched football, play cards, drink beer. And Mike was like this, you know, yoga guy who ate granola. The nerdy corporate type stuck out in this crowd. I mean, he was just different.

And that's what every one of us thought was a good thing. Saskia needed different. Slowly, Mike was integrating into her world. And she liked that. He was everything that I thought would be good for me, good for my kids, and I did fall in love with him. It wasn't like the boom, you get hit with this love from the beginning, right? It grew up a pace that I felt like was a healthy pace. As their love grew, so did Saskia's comfort level.

She could let her guard down. There was one time where we played strip. bowling or something. I mean, something like that sounded fun at the time, and it was kind of fun. Especially because I never had that with my first husband. I didn't think he desired me at all. So here this was, and it felt like, wow, like this person that I'm going to be with, like, we do like desire each other.

And we can have fun, and it is sexual. And like, that's good because it shouldn't be just a roommate situation. When he tried to spice things up, he was respectful of her bound to. I remember one time he took a picture of me and showed me how good my butt looked or something like that. And I explicitly asked him, what are you doing with that picture? And he's like, well, of course I'm going to erase it. I would never show it to anybody. She had every reason to trust him.

They loved each other. When he would go to work in the morning, he would always leave me like a note on my pillow. Saskia shared some of those notes with us. Here's a voice actor reading one. Half of me wishes that we would have met 10 plus years ago, just because I think of all the time we would have had. But then I realized it just wasn't meant to happen back then. I am finally at a place in my life where I can embrace who I am.

And I just feel like you are the other half, the one who makes me complete. It is not easy to open up so much because you open yourself up to being hurt. But I don't care. I will do anything for you to know how I feel. After years of feeling alone in her first marriage, Mike's words meant a lot. He made it clear how much he loved her. Whenever he traveled for work, We always had a nice sweet kiss before he left and a big hug.

And we would talk every night. And he would always bring me something from his trips, like a bracelet or a little trinket. But there was one final test their relationship had to pass, introducing their kids. At the time, Mike's daughters were 11 and 7. Saskia's daughter was 5 and her son was 3. They set aside a whole Saturday for the kids to finally meet. We met at Dave and Busters in the mall. I brought my kids.

He brought his kids. And his daughter grabbed my daughter's hand. And they were walking around together and just so excited to show each other their favorite games. And we had them pick out. prizes at the end. And that was our first meeting. And they basically were best friends after that. From that point on, they began hanging out more and more, all six of them. Shortly after that, we were at my apartment and we had a power outage. No electricity and didn't know when we were going to get electricity turned on. So we all made a trip to Mike's apartment. And so we had a little

like family bonding there. And it was really cute. We had to like figure out who's going to sleep where in this little two-bedroom apartment. It turned into a really fun time. Mike's daughters started to feel like her own. As co-parents, Mike and Saskia made a good team. They balanced each other out.

He was kind of more the organized, practical one. I was more the social, coordinator and the nurturing fun mom. And so he relied on me for that. And like, I relied on him for saying like, okay, it's time to go to bed or those kinds of things. Soskia always loved motherhood. And she loved having a packed house. I liked having the four kids together. It was like, your breakfast is like a little conveyor belt. I liked it. I liked being a mom of four. And we were a family. I wish I could say that. We had a happy end to our story, but that wasn't reality.

There's two golden rules that any man should live by. Rule one, never mess with a country girl. You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes. And rule two, never mess with her friends either. We always say that trust your girlfriends. I'm Anna Sinfield, and in this new season of the girlfriends, Oh my God, this is the same man. a group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist.

I felt like I got hit by a truck. I thought, how could this happen to me? The cops didn't seem to care. So they take matters into their own hands. I said, oh, hell no. I vowed. I will be his last target. He's going to get what he deserves. Listen to the girlfriends.

Trust me, babe. On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, everyone? I'm Ego Wood. My next guest, you know from Step Brothers Anchorman, Saturday Night Live, and the Big Money Players Network. It's Will Ferrell. Woo, woo, woo, woo. My dad gave me the best advice ever.

I went and had lunch with him one day, and I was like, and dad, I think I want to really give this a shot. I don't know what that means, but I just know the groundlings. I'm working my way up through, and I know it's a place that come look for up and coming talent. He said, if it was based solely on talent, I wouldn't worry about you. which is really sweet. Yeah. He goes, but there's so much luck involved. And he's like, just give it a shot.

He goes, but if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit. If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration. It would not be on a calendar of, you know, the cat. Just hang in there. Yeah, it would not be. Right, it wouldn't be that. There's a lot of luck.

Listen to Thanks Dad on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. You can have opinions. You can have like a strong stance. And then there's your body having its own program. I'm Dr. Maya Shunker, a cognitive scientist and hosts of the podcast, a slight change of plans, a show about who we are and who we become when life makes other plans. We share stories and scientific insights to how help us all better navigate these periods of turbulence and transformation. There is one finding that is consistent, and that is that our resilience rests on our relationships. I wish that I hadn't resisted for so long the need to change. We have to be willing to live with a kind of uncertainty that none of us likes.

Listen to a slight change of plans on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, earners, what's up? Look, money is something we all deal with, but financial literacy is what helps turn income into real wealth. On each episode of the podcast, Earn Your Leisure, we break down the conversations you need to understand money, investing, and entrepreneurship. From stocks and real estate to credit, business, and generational wealth,

we translate complex financial topics into real conversations everyone can understand. Because the truth is, most people will never taught how money really works. But once you understand the system, you can start to build within it. That means ownership, smarter investing, and creating opportunities not just for yourself, but for the next generation. If you want to learn how to build wealth,

understand the markets, and think like an owner. Earn Your Leisure is the podcast for you. Listen to Earn Your Leisure on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. A year into dating, Mike was staying at Saskia's apartment most nights. And then my lease was getting ready to be up.

And Mike and I both felt like it was just the natural progression to rent a place together. So we started looking and was really exciting. They moved into a townhouse. His daughters started sleeping over two whenever they weren't with their mom. Marisa felt like her sister had found the one. With him and her balance, she did seem to be like kind of becoming her best self. They seemed like good partners. She brought the energy and the fun, and he brought stability and, you know, was a good match.

At the time, Marisa was going through a lot. She and her husband, Ronnie, were trying to get pregnant, and Saskia could see it was weighing on her. It was a lot of hope and disappointment regarding my sister's journey to have a child. She had so many almost where they were trying to do IVF. she would be so excited and a few weeks down the line, you know, we get the bad news. And I could just see that my sister was not going to be fulfilled without having her own family and having her own kids.

So then after the last time that they told her she didn't have any more tries with the IVF, I just said, you know, I would love to give it a try. Sosia offered to carry Marisa's child. For Marisa, accepting this offer felt like giving up her dream of carrying a baby herself. But then again, this could be our only option. Here's Marisa. One of the things Saskia said to me was, you're comparing the wrong things. You're comparing carrying your own child with what is possible.

And carrying her own child is not possible. She knew what to push me. And that was a big eye-opener like, oh, yeah. I'm still mourning a loss. instead of looking at what I can gain here. After a lot of conversations, Marisa was in, and Saskia was excited to carry her baby. Of course, it was a big decision. It would mean carrying another man's child.

And it would change her body significantly. So Saskia brought it to Mike. I discussed it with him. He said that he was on board and that he thought it was a really loving, special thing to do. I also talked with the kids about it. You know, told them, we were trying to have a baby for Marisa. The baby might be in my tummy. And we had this whole kangaroo book that we read to them.

And I don't know that they totally understood. But once everybody was kind of on board, we started the process. I think it made her happy to be able to do it. And everybody was so amazed by what she was doing. So, you know, you're getting a ton of positive feedback. And you're pregnant. Everybody loves pregnant people. I think it was a good happy phase for her.

Still, pregnancy isn't all smiles. And Mike was there every step of the way, making things as comfortable as possible for Saskia. Having a baby at 36 as opposed to 29 was different. So I'd have more like aches and pains. He would give me massages every night. He was there by my side for whatever was important to me and my family also. And I think it brought him closer to my family.

they thought, what a great guy, that he's not worried about how this would affect him, that he's going to be there for you. Seeing him step up during the pregnancy, deepened Marisa's respect for Mike. I was grateful for Mike when they were together and he agreed to participate in that process. I thought that was amazing. I didn't think a lot of men would do that and he was very supportive. Yeah, we called him one of the team. When Saskia gave birth, Mike was right by her side. He was there at the end of the delivery room bed.

So he was like the perfect partner to go through this with. The nurses handed the baby to Marisa. Saskia watched with love. Her sister was finally a mom. I just thought he was so beautiful and I was so proud. And I could just see my sister like so proud like this is my baby. She gave me the greatest gift in the world. I think she did that because of who she is, not because of any kind of sense of obligation or, like, I need to offer this.

I think she just felt my pain and wanted to step up for me. And I think that is a beautiful thing. After the pregnancy, Marisa and Saskia were closer than ever. And Saskia fell closer to Mike, too. The care he'd given her confirmed what she already knew. Mike was a real partner. At this point, they'd been together for three years. But the two of them never talked about getting married.

Neither of us were like Gung Ho looking to this relationship for a marriage. We didn't know if that was like the end result that we were looking for. We knew we wanted to be together. But as our families got really close, it didn't feel right to say this is my boyfriend. So Saskia told Mike. how she was feeling. I was like, you know, it would really, it would be nice to be engaged.

It would be nice to, like, be able to say this is my fiancé. We don't have to get married anytime soon, but it would be nice. And Mike thought it would be nice, too. With engagement on the brain, Saskia and Mike took a trip to Amsterdam. They wanted to visit Saskia's relatives.

Her mom sighed as Dutch. And a vacation felt like the perfect way to celebrate the end of the pregnancy. We went to the Heineken Breast. walked around, got Nutella coffees, and went to the smoke shops. And I loved it because there was like cats in some of the smoke shops just walking around. I was like, this is my happy place. This is the best.

They even went at the Red Light District. It felt like something that we were doing just because we went in Rome. Went to this one place. They gave you like a ticket and there's a hole that you look through in a wall. So I looked and he's looking at a different hole. And it was two people having sex. It was the least exciting. They had zero anything on their faces.

Like, they were just like having sex. And I was like, what the hell? Who wants to watch that? The trip came and went. And despite conversations they had in the lead up to the trip, Saskia returned home without a ring. There was a lot of really cool moments or I'm like, oh, that could have been a nice engagement.

engagement opportunity. So after we got back, everyone was just, where's her ring? Like, my brother was like, what's going on? What's going on? Mike? Kind of teasing him about it. And so I think that put in his head. Shortly after that, came Saskia's birthday.

We went to this restaurant with a bunch of my friends, and we were sitting outside. And I remember I was, like, talking with Bridget. and she asked me about the trip or something. I said, look, I am about ready to just be pissed off because he knows we wanted to get engaged and she was like, Saskia, just don't bring it up today. Just give it another month or something. Just be patient.

Later that night, we were in the bedroom and I was getting ready to go to bed and he gives me this little book. And it's saying like all these things about our relationship, all the stuff that he likes about me, and like he personalized it. And on the last page of the book, it said, will you marry me? And I was like, what? And then I looked up and he had the ring.

And it was a ring that I wanted. It was a Tanzanite. I didn't want a diamond. It was beautiful. You know, we hugged and kissed and I said it's about time. And yeah. And so it was really exciting. Saskia and Mike were happy to be engaged,

but they didn't feel a need to rush to the altar or even get to the altar at all. They'd both already been married once before. Being engaged was enough. I would have kept him my forever fiancé. There was no like, okay, now let's plan a wedding. We were okay with taking our time. And it was that way for about six months, maybe a year even.

And then it seemed like all of a sudden, and he was in a hurry to have us pick a place, pick a date. He was very insistent upon it. Once he set that in motion, we started going to, like, different venues, and that started happening pretty quickly. And then we decided on the Waverly Mansion, and it was just a really beautiful venue. With most of the money going towards the venue,

Soski had tried to save wherever she could. Heather was making cookie favors for her. Are there like two lovebirds? She's really good at making fancy cookies. I borrowed Bridget's dress, which she was happy about because she spent way too much money on it and only got to wear it once. Finally, the wedding day arrived. I got up, went to Nordstrom to have my makeup done. Bought some makeup. You know, I have to do that. My sister's friend did my hair, all the girl's hair.

And then we all trucked to the Waverly Mansion and had the bride's suite there. The day was as much about the four kids as it was Mike and Saskia. Mike had this idea to do a sand ceremony where basically everybody picks a color of sand. My son picked blue. The girls picked purple and pink. Mike and I each had a color and everybody pours sand into this glass vase and just symbolizes the family. coming together, merging into one family. Megan, her sister-in-law, remembers it as a beautiful wedding.

She seemed so happy, and we were all happy for her. And we were happy for the kids that they had two new step-sisters, and we had new nieces. We were just so happy to, like, integrate them into our family, and it was official now. So it was just a great day for everyone. But that wasn't how everyone felt. Here's Heather.

The entire night she seemed off. Sitting in her chair, watching Saskia at the altar, Heather wanted to be happy for her friend. But to her, Saska didn't seem happy at all. The entire time that Sas is up and they're doing the ceremony, they're far apart. There was no handholding, no loving gaze. She looks so uncomfortable.

The thing is, Heather knew something the other friends didn't. The night before the wedding, Saskia had gone over to Heather's house to pick something up. But Saskia didn't seem like herself. She seemed unnerved, and I said, what's going on? And I thought maybe she was just nervous about the wedding. She said, and I can't remember it was like the very night before or some night previous to the night she came over,

She said that her and Mike had been out drinking. And they went back to the house and they started having sex. And she saw a laptop was open. And there were people on the screen. For Saskia, the incident was blurry. We were in bed. I can't tell you what was happening before, after. but it was literally like a snapshot in time.

In a thog, she saw a mic on his laptop. And on his screen, there were two people. And I didn't know if it was like a movie or whether he knew them. And I remember being really confused and saying like, what's going on? He turned to her. For a moment. And just for a moment, She slipped into a different reality.

And he said, oh, say hi. Coming up this season on betrayal. People were paying to see this go down. Saskia had absolutely no idea what was happening to her. You're supposed to be safe. That's your home. That's your husband. For resources on sexual violence, visit rain.org slash betrayal.

That's r-a-in-n-n.org slash betrayal. You can also get free confidential 24-7 support through Rain's National Sexual Assault hotline. Just text Hope to 64673 or call 1-800-656, Hope. You are not alone. If you would like to reach out to the betrayal team or want to tell us your story, email us at Betrayalpod at gmail.com. That is Betrayal P-O-D at Gmail.com or follow us on Instagram at Betrayal Pod. To access additional content and to connect with the Betrayal community,

join our Substack at Betrayal.substack.com. We're grateful for your support. One way to show support is by subscribing to our show on Apple Podcasts. Don't forget to rate and review Betrayal. Five-star reviews go a long way. A big thank you to all of our listeners. Betrayal is a production of Glass Podcasts, a division of Glass Entertainment Group in partnership with IHeart Podcasts. The show is executive produced by Nancy Glass and Jennifer Fasen.

Hosted and produced by me, Andrea Gunning. Written and produced by Caitlin Golden. Our supervising producer is Carrie Hartman. Our story editor is Monique Laborde. Also produced by Ben Federman. Associate producers are Olivia Hewitt and Leah Jablo. Production Management by Kristen Melmold. Kuri. Additional support by Curry Richmond. Our I-Hart team is Ali Perry and Jessica Krinechek.

Voice acting by Steve Lillinsky. Audio editing by Tanner Robbins with additional editing and mixing by Matt Delvecchio. Special thanks to Saskia, her friends and family. And special thanks to Will Pearson and Carrie Lieberman. Betrayal's theme is composed by Oliver Baines, music library provided by Myb Music. And for more podcasts from IHeart, visit the IHart Radio Apple Podcasts, wherever you get your podcasts. What's up, everyone? I'm Ago Vodam. My next guest, it's Will Ferrell. Woo, woo, woo, woo, woo.

My dad gave me the best advice ever. He goes, just give it a shot. But if you ever reach a point where you're banging your head against the wall and it doesn't feel fun anymore, it's okay to quit. If you saw it written down, it would not be an inspiration. It would not be on a calendar of, you know, the cat just had. Hang in there. Yeah, it would not be. Right, it wouldn't be that.

There's a lot of luck. Listen to Thanks, Dad, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Hey, I'm Dr. Maya Shunker, a cognitive scientist and hosts of the podcast, a slight change of plans, a show about who we are and who we become when life makes other plans. I wish that I hadn't resisted for so long the need to change. We have to be willing to live with a kind of unsubesely. certainty that none of us likes.

You can have opinions. You can have like a strong stance. And then there's your body having its own program. Listen to a slight change of plans on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. It's Financial Literacy Month, and the podcast, Eating While Broke, is bringing real conversations about money, growth, and building your future. This month, hear from top streamer Zoe Spencer and venture capitalist Lakeisha Landrum-Pierre as they share their journeys from starting out to leveling up. There's an economic component to community striving.

If there's not enough money and entrepreneurship happening in communities, they failed. Listen to Eating While Broke from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. On a recent episode of the podcast, Money and Wealth with John Hobrient, I sit down with Tiffany the budgetista aliche to talk about what it really takes to take control of your money. What would that look like in our families if everyone was able to pass on wealth to the people when they're no longer here?

We break down budgeting, financial discipline, and how to build real wealth, starting with the mindset shifts. Too many of us were never, ever taught. If you've ever felt you didn't get the memo on money, this conversation is for you to hear more. Listen to Money and Wealth with John Hope Bryant from the Black Effect Network on the I'd Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. This is an IHeart podcast, guaranteed human.