Bite Back with Abbey Sharp - From Raw Vegan to Orthorexia | Untangling Your Diet from Identity with Nutritionist Sarah Britton

Episode Date: January 28, 2025

In today’s episode of Bite Back with Abbey Sharp, I will be chatting with food blogger, cookbook author and nutritionist Sarah Britton about her experiences with raw veganism becoming a dangerous eating disorder and how she untangled her diet from her core identity. Sarah talks about the exclusivity of certain extreme diets like raw veganism and how it serves to perpetuate the internalization of one’s diet as identity. She talks about the physical and mental health implications of her restrictive raw vegan diet and what triggered her body to beg for a diet change. She talks about the identity crisis she faced upon introducing animal products to her diet, especially as a person in the pubic eye. And I finish with some tips on how to uncouple your diet from your core identity if and when your diet is no longer working for you.  References:https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5623148https://www.nationaleatingdisorders.org/Check in with today’s amazing guest: Sarah BrittonWebsite: https://www.mynewroots.org/Cookbooks : https://www.mynewroots.org/cookbooks/@mynewroots Trigger Warning: I want to flag that we will be talking about eating disorders, and we will also be discussing Sarah’s experiences with veganism, some of which was not positive or helpful. I do not want anyone to take this as me or Sarah not supporting a plant-based diet because as you’ll see, we absolutely both do. Disclaimer: The content in this episode is for educational and entertainment purposes only and is never a substitute for medical advice. If you’re struggling with with your mental or physical health, please work one on one with a health care provider.If you have heard yourself in our discussion today, and are looking for support, contact the free NEDIC helpline at 1-866-NEDIC-20 or go to eatingdisorderhope.com. 🥤 Check out my 2-in-1 Plant Based Probiotic Protein Powder, neue theory at www.neuetheory.com or @neuetheoryDon’t forget to Please subscribe on Apple, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts and leave us a review! It really helps us out. ✉️ SUBSCRIBE TO MY NEWSLETTERS ⤵️Neue Theory newsletterAbbey's Kitchen newsletter 🥞 FREE HUNGER CRUSHING COMBO™ E-BOOK! 💪🏼 FREE PROTEIN 101 E-BOOK! 📱 Follow me! Instagram: @abbeyskitchenTikTok: @abbeyskitchenYouTube: @AbbeysKitchen My blog, Abbey’s Kitchen www.abbeyskitchen.comMy book, The Mindful Glow Cookbook affiliate link: https://amzn.to/3NoHtvf If you liked this podcast, please like, follow, and leave a review with your thoughts and let me know who you want me to discuss next!

I got my first chicken from him, I roasted it, I ate that thing with my hands, and every cell in my body was extremely ready for that nourishment. I haven't looked back since, that was the turning point. Welcome to another episode of Bite Back with Abbey Sharp, where I dismantle diet culture rules, call it the charlatans spinning the pseudoscience and help you achieve food freedom for good. I am really, really excited about today's episode because I think it does really embody one of the many reasons why I think wellness culture today is so dangerous for so many.

You know, wellness and diet culture tend to make our diet or the way we eat the centerpiece of like our entire life. They tend to teach us that the food on our plate is more than just nourishment for our bodies, but rather is a profound statement of who we are. Whether we're vegan, paleo, or gluten-free, these labels often go well beyond dietary choices and start to define our personal values, our social circles and even how we see ourselves.

But what happens to our deeply grounded identity when our diet suddenly changes? That's the question we'll be exploring today with my guest, nutritionist, chef, cookbook author, and creator of the popular blog, My New Roots, Sarah Britton. We'll be diving into Sarah's experience with her healthy vegan lifestyle turned unhealthy orthorexic behaviors. We'll be discussing the theme of food as identity and the dangers inherent in that

mindset. We'll also be talking about how diet and wellness culture contribute to this tendency. And finally, I will be leaving you with some tips to help prevent your food choices from becoming your whole life. Now before we get into this, I want to quickly flag that we will be talking about eating disorders and we'll also be discussing Sarah's experiences with veganism, some of which was Before we get into this, I want to quickly flag that we will be talking about eating disorders, and we'll also be discussing Sarah's experiences with veganism, some of which was not exactly so great. And I don't want anybody to take this as me or Sarah not supporting a plant-based diet,

because as you will soon hear, we absolutely both do. Also, the information in this episode is for educational and entertainment purposes only, and it's never a replacement for one-on-one healthcare advice. Finally, do not forget to give Bite Back a follow, and please leave me a five-star review because it really, really does help me out. Alright folks, let's dive in. All right, folks, let's dive in. Well, thank you so much for joining me today, Sarah. I'm so excited to chat with you.

Me too. Thanks for having me, Abby. So I wanted to kind of quickly jump in here, just kind of halfway through your food journey, because you know, like for all of us, it sounds like it's been a windy long road. So correct me if I get anything I miss any important details but from what you've said and what I've read you got into the kind of whole local organic plant-based diet after doing a stint working in an organic farm in 2006 and then you were hired to manage a raw vegan restaurant in Copenhagen, which is amazing, which essentially kind of inspired you to go full raw vegan. And I would love if you could tell me a little bit about how the raw vegan lifestyle felt different, like, you know,

emotionally, spiritually, socially, physically, than the more moderate plant based diet you had been on previously. Sure, yeah, it was a huge shift actually and at the time raw veganism was still pretty edgy and especially in Scandinavia. I think Germany is really ahead of the curve when it comes to a lot of health movements but just above there. For some reason it kind of stops there. So in Denmark and Sweden, raw veganism was really very fringe. I mean, just being a vegetarian in that country alone was already like really kind of strange,

I will say, indifferent. But yeah, I found this raw vegan restaurant and I had been vegan for a few years already and was feeling amazing. And I thought it would be a really cool opportunity to hone those culinary skills even more. So I've been working in restaurants as a vegetarian chef. But when this opportunity came up, I just jumped at it because I thought, okay, that's really sort of the next level.

And that's where I want to go to anyway. And I knew that it would really challenge my culinary skills, because you have to think so creatively all the time. I mean, there's totally there's just no, yeah, you can't just sort of make something off the cuff, you have to really think about it. So after just a few weeks of working there, I started eating fully raw because it was really easy. I had access to it and I was the one making the food anyway, so I knew what was going in it. And I mean, when I say that it's a spiritual practice to eat this way, I really mean it because first of all, it

takes up a lot of mental space. Right. And it becomes a devotional practice in so many ways because it's not like you can just go and grab a sandwich. You really need to be thinking about food, not just what you're going to have for dinner tonight, but next Thursday, because I was also really into sprouting. So I was making everything, my meals like days in advance. So it is a devotional practice in that sense. And also, gosh, I mean, I felt actually high. As soon as I started eating 100% raw, I felt like I was vibrating on some plane that was just not even on planet Earth. I was so, I felt so amazing.

I was so full of energy. I've never felt so clear headed and focused, light, agile. Like I just, I was bursting with energy. And the only other people that really could relate to me were the fellow employees of this restaurant. And so we ended up spending so much time together both cooking and eating, but also just talking about, you know, what we were doing

because it was so out of the box and it was so different than anyone else in our lives at that time. So it kind of became, yeah, this little clique, and we were really tight and we just were eating raw food together. And we kept each other sort of accountable and, but we all felt amazing. And we also could sort of take care in each other's struggles, especially with the social life, because that kind of falls off. I mean, you just don't, unless your partner

or your other friends or your family is eating raw vegan, socializing becomes incredibly difficult. Right. Like I said, you can't just go to a restaurant. You can't even go over to someone's house for dinner. So I think that really, it's an incredibly bonding experience with the people who you're doing it with as well.

And it was a lot of fun. It was highly experimental. We really felt like we were on the edge of something, incredibly exciting. It was really only incredible while I was in. It's amazing. Yeah, I felt the best, yeah, maybe ever. And it sounds like, you know,

your experience kind of syncs up with the rise in popularity of the Freely the Banana Girl and the Raw Christina and the Carolyn Daceler and, you know, these other raw vegan influencers that really were quite popular for a period of time. And I guess a lot of my followers don't really know this, but my first viral video was of me reviewing freely the banana girls what I need a day because you know as a healthcare professional I was kind of blown away that someone who was you

know promoting such an outrageous fringe diet was now so mainstream. And you know, as someone who had had recovered from orthorexia myself, I was seeing that this lifestyle that they were selling as not a diet was in fact a diet. And part of the reason why it was so persuasive was because of there was this this kind of almost like a competition inherent in these circles. There's there's this kind of almost like a competition inherent in these circles. There's this community and a sense of righteousness and almost shame if you're not kind of doing, you know, you're not putting forth the most vigilant devotion to the movement. You mentioned it's a devotion, like it sounds like it most certainly has to be. You're not vegan enough if you are not raw. And so from my perspective

watching this trend happening, it just felt like it was encouraging people to push through what their own intuition may be when it comes to what feels good to their body. And in those moments it does feel good. But did you feel that pressure to kind of be perfect, be righteous, be you know the best vegan you could be when you were in that fully raw vegan world? 100% there was definitely, I mean even when I was vegan I still, because I also I mean, even when I was vegan, I still, because I also suffered from orthorexia. Not, it wasn't until much later that I saw that because I felt quite balanced in the moment. Right.

Don't we always? But there was always this like one-upping, like how can I be better? How can I be more righteous? And I mean, eating cooked food for a while then felt really like I was cheating in some way, like I was regressing in some way. So raw veganism, even 80-20 raw felt like that's, that had to be the goal. And I wondered why people who were vegan weren't striving for

a high raw diet as well, because that was clearly the next step in my mind at the time. So yeah, it felt, it was not necessarily a competition with others, but I think with myself, again, I felt so devoted to this way of eating and living that I just wanted to continuously challenge myself and keep going up higher and higher. Right. I mean, it sounds a little bit like a cult the way you've described it there. continuously challenge myself and keep going up higher and higher. Right. I mean, it sounds a little bit like a cult the way you've described it there. I know, it does. It's getting to the next level, moving up the ranks.

You know, but you're not wrong. I know. And so, you know, though, I kind of hear these comments from a lot of folks who have struggled with disorder eating and eating disorders. And it's like, often people's well-meaning comments get very twisted by the ED brain, and you end up just feeling very kind of misunderstood and alone for the folks that you're seeing who are vegan and they aren't taking it to the next level. Like, why are they

missing this? And you know, EDs do that, right? They're inherently isolating and then they get amplified and enabled by this isolation and then we internalize that we are just different. Nobody understands us. Nobody cares about our needs, which just kind of drives us further away from people who do care and further into the arms of our ED where we feel safe. And you know, I think that it's important for people to know how kind of de-social, what a de-socializing cycle that is. It's so common. But in your experience, what happened that made you eventually take a pause after you felt so high, so validated in this choice that you had made?

What made you take a pause and kind of reevaluate that raw vegan lifestyle? One of them was, I mean, I got into vegetarian eating in the first place for environmental reasons. And when I looked at where the majority of my food was coming from, it was definitely not local. I mean, I did raw for just over a year and I'm in like the Nordic region of the world. Like we're not exactly swimming in coconuts and bananas. So just realizing the food miles that my calories were taking, I just felt like it was probably not sustainable. It wasn't being a good role model from a

sustainability standpoint. And then the second thing was that I started getting really cold. I started getting so cold, like where I couldn't warm up and it's cold and damp in Denmark. And I also studied Chinese medicine and looking at food energetics, I'm in a cold, damp environment and I'm eating cold, damp food.

So no wonder I felt cold and damp inside. Like I just could not warm up ever. And it took a few weeks of that. And I was like, okay, I definitely something's going on. I really have to listen to my body. So yeah, I started slowly incorporating like I'd make a raw soup, but then I'd like warm it up on the stove, you know, like 41 degrees Celsius, maybe steps, maybe step if you tip over, you know, like you're gonna kill those enzymes. So yeah, gosh, I mean, it's so crazy talking about this. Now, these, these, these things are these things sort of unfold so

slowly. It's just interesting to like, have the perspective and look back and think, whoa, like what was I thinking? But that was really it. I realized the amount of, yeah, miles my food was traveling to get to me. And then also just internally, I felt like something was not 100% okay in there. And did you eventually eat meat? I did. But that was- How did that feel? Well, I and physically? Yeah, I mean,

fast forward, gosh, like 12 years later, eating meat is pretty recent to me. So I was vegetarian, vegan, raw vegan for 26 years. And I had a massive spinal injury six years ago, six and a half now. And my Chinese doctor kept telling me, you need to eat more nutrient dense foods, you need more minerals, you need more protein. And he recommended I start with broth. And I would just cry every single time he mentioned this. I'd be like, you know, I'm not going to do that. Like this is my identity and I've built a career on this. So I'm definitely never going to eat meat. And he's like, okay, well, I probably will keep recommending it. So just so you're aware. I was like, you can keep telling me, but I'm never going to change. And.

You know, after some time, he's a very wise man and I trusted him so deeply. And I was at the farmer's market one day and someone was selling chicken feet, uh, from a local farm here. And I knew that most of the collagen is concentrated in the feet of the chicken, plus it's a waste product. And they were selling this massive bag for $5. And I talked to the woman who was the farmer and I said, you know, I'm vegetarian. I haven't eaten meat in 26 years, but it's been recommended to me to start broth. So I'm interested in buying the feet, but I want to come to your farm first and just look at the animals and see how they're raised. And she's like, that's totally fine. So I went up and I visited the farm, saw these very, very happy animals. I really loved the way

that she was practicing regenerative farming. And, you know, she said something that really stuck with me, which is that we can't grow plants without these animals. I was like, oh, right, ecology. Symbiotic relationship. Yeah, this thing that I was a part of, I was really looking at it under a microscope and just ignoring everything else around it. So the next week I bought a bunch of chicken feet and I made broth and I literally cried into the pot. And I couldn't do it. Actually, I made this

huge batch and I took a few sips and I just my whole body. It just was a no. But I gave the broth to my family. They were very happy about it. And then about a year later, I tried it again and it felt a little bit better this time, but it was all this identity piece. And I wasn't sure how I would even tell my audience that I was drinking bone broth. Like I just felt really overwhelming.

And then another year goes by and I woke up one day and suddenly there were no feelings left. I just wanted a chicken and I didn't want broth. I wanted to roast a whole chicken and I wanted to eat it. And so I connected with another farmer locally since then and he was really excited because he was a former vegetarian. And we got into some beautiful conversations, again, about ecology, about regenerative farming, which is what he practices. And so I got my first chicken from him, I roasted it. And I ate that thing with my

hands. Every cell in my body was extremely ready for that nourishment. And I haven't looked back since that was the turning point for me. And it was cool to suddenly just have a physiological craving. It wasn't just like, sort of me thinking that this was going to be good for me on some level. It was my body saying, now's the time. We're not going to cry about this anymore we're not going to have any wow like talk about intuition like the like primal intuition that it was a primal intuition for sure and yeah my husband was so funny because he's like you don't want to use a knife and fork and i'm like i don't even know what i'm doing i just right it's like i have no experience with this. It's like a toddler getting cake for the first time, just like all hands on board.

Oh, what a story. And just for our listeners here, I wanna make it clear that this episode is not like proving that you need to eat meat. That's not the take home message here. It's simply that because you have been taught one particular way of eating is best or the most clean or pure as we see in a lot of these kind of more extreme diets, it doesn't mean that it's the best or healthiest for you. And it sounds like, you know, you're living proof of that.

You had all intentions to avoid animal products and your body was saying, no, this is what I need. And you brought up your followers and I think this is really an interesting point for me as a fellow content creator as well. You've got this big blog, you've had it all the while during your vegan journey, you've accumulated this huge following, sharing vegan recipes while you were deprogramming and healing and learning

which foods actually felt best for you, which again, highly individualized. What was going on with regards to revealing this transition to your followers? Like what, what were you thinking? What were they saying? I was really scared. Sure. This was a couple years years ago and some of the big names in the vegan world started eating meat. And I felt slighted by them. I felt really let down, which was so interesting to observe because I was still in that place of like, I'm never going to eat meat and I know that. And so seeing these people that I looked up to so much that were so just, yeah, that was their brand.

I was just in shock. I was in disbelief that they had the courage, but also it almost felt insensitive to me, but I was in a really easily to be triggered place, I think. Yeah. Sure. Again, in retrospect, it was very interesting, the emotions that came up when I saw someone that I looked up to eating differently, and knowing that that's probably how some of my audience members were looking at me.

And I thought, how can I let them down? And how can I make them feel the way I feel about this other person? It felt so complicated and so layered. At the same time, you know, I actually have never been a preachy vegetarian. I always just made vegetarian and vegan recipes, as I said, because it was all inclusive because I really just wanted everyone to be able to eat

that meat, fish eaters, whatever, you know, whatever it was. It wasn't really outwardly based on anything political, spiritual, whatnot. It was very much just a personal choice. And I always owned that. And I never pushed it on anybody. All I wanted to do was inspire people to eat more plants,

which I still a hundred percent believe in. And that's what I believe. For sure. And you know, just make really nourishing food taste amazing. That's always sure. And, you know, just make really nourishing food taste amazing. That's always been my baseline. So I had that, which was good, but it still felt like a really big jump. And I didn't want to offend anyone.

And I didn't want to make people feel, yeah, let down or disillusioned in some way. So it was actually was a really slow process. I ended up going on a friend's podcast, Tanya Papinikolov, who owns Rainbow Mushrooms. And that podcast was kind of my coming out. And I had actually just gotten off the phone with the fourth surgeon that I was speaking to about spinal fusion. And this was like the fourth opinion. And I just gotten off the phone with him when we started recording this podcast. And you know, I mean, the conclusion was you need to have spinal fusion surgery, you're never going to be the same again. And basically, every vertebrae is going to blow after you get this surgery. But you know, your leg pain will go away

because I also had severe sciatica. So I, I remember getting on the phone with Tanya and she's like, are you ready to record? And I said, yeah, I mean, I'm crying, but I'm okay. And she's like, does this feel okay? And I said, honestly, there's no better time. I'm also quite a open person. And I don't mind sharing because if we don't have our authenticity, like what is the point of anything? So I shared what was going on with me physically for the

first time, because my, conveniently, my back injury was invisible to most people and I was incredibly good at hiding how much pain I was in. So nobody had any idea for years. At that point, I had been eating I think just chicken for about six months, which is where I thought I would stop. I was like, I'll just drink broth and have chicken and that's it. Right. But I yeah, I shared about what was going on with me physically and that I had started to eat meat. And I think because I shared about what was going on with me physically and that I had started to eat meat.

And I think because I shared it from a place of vulnerability and also I'm doing this to heal my body, I've tried everything else. I mean, everything. And as soon as I started drinking broth daily and eating meat, the pain actually started to go away very quickly. And I'm not crediting the diet change because there were many other things I was doing. But that was the last puzzle piece where I think I got the combination right. Right. So it was just, you know, our diet is like the thing that affects us the

most. So it was the last puzzle piece. And then things really, I just really started to gain traction after that. Like it gave me a foothold to have a few days pain free. And then I had more energy to do physiotherapy and XYZ. So it really catapulted me into a much better place. And getting back to your question, overall, people were incredibly understanding and supportive. That's great. It was such a relief. I also think by the time I shared about it, I had really made peace with the change myself, because I think that was the biggest hurdle. It was like not what other people were going to think of me. It was what do I think of me? Right. And I had to get over all that programming

and all those voices in my head that said that I was a failure, that I was going against some arbitrary promise that I had not made to anybody. I mean, it's just so wild, the things, these stories we can concoct around our diet. So it was incredibly liberating and I feel so lucky to have, you know,

really gathered this community of people that are behind me. And that's when I really realized like how solid the MyNoods community is. And, you know, I keep sharing recipes that are plant rich and delicious and nourishing, but I think people understand that, you know, I keep sharing recipes that are plant rich and delicious and nourishing, but I think people understand that, you know, also their own diets ebb and flow and that, um, maybe this is just a period of time, maybe it's not, maybe it's forever, but, uh, the important part was that I was feeling really good finally, and it didn't matter why, you know. Well, I'm so I can imagine the fear

and the anxiety that must come with not knowing how your huge audience is going to react to this big life change and like identity change because you know this whole raw vegan world has become a bit of an identity for you, not to mention a part of a brand. I also just feel like how sad is it that we have to, that the only way that that change would have been accepted by the public is because your life depended on it. Like, had you just come out and said, I was just, you know what, I just wanted to eat meat. Would you be accepted?

And if not, why? You know, like, why are we so obsessed, ingrained, and dedicated to the food choices of others to the point that we're going to cancel them if they don't align with our own? I know, it's crazy. It's crazy. This is crazy. It's very sad. But I, you know, I really want to talk about your education for a moment because

I know you went to the Institute for Holistic Nutrition School. And I'm curious, like within your community and your colleagues and your professors and your mentors, and what was the messages that you received around conventional healthcare, conventional food, diet and disease, those interactions, et cetera? Well, that's a great question, Abby. I think when I was in it, when I was studying, it felt, yeah, extremely like we were on the team again. I had this sort of

mentality of like the raw vegan team. I mean, suddenly we're on the holistic nutrition team and it was like us against the world. It, that education really opened my eyes to, I mean, so much just physiologically how our bodies work, but also all the things that our bodies are sort of up against in our modern world's chemicals that we, you know, are just like everywhere that we really have no control over. EMFs, stress, whatever stuff in our water. I mean, it's just, yeah, all that. There's a lot to fear apparently. There's a lot to be afraid of. So I guess what I'm trying to say is that I feel that my education perpetuated fear to motivate change. And that became apparent

as the education went on, because I felt like the students were changing and I felt like there was even competition when we were bringing our lunch in every day and like looking at people's lunches. Like who's the cleanest eater? It was a very clean eating focused. And you know, when you start thinking about food in that way, your choices get pretty narrow. And then there is so much fear around eating something that's not in the category that you wanted to be in. And oh gosh, yeah. So it felt limiting in some ways.

And I think there was a lot of fear involved in the education, unfortunately. And I will also say quite biased against an omnivore diet. It felt very much like not you had to be vegetarian to be healthy, but the emphasis was definitely on plant-rich eating. Which is, it should be, you know, yes, the emphasis should always be on plant-based eating, but it's the clean eating movement, the falsehoods of the clean eating movement that are grounded in this appeal to nature's fallacy that I think is problematic, right?

You know, it's this idea that anything natural is good, that your body is capable of healing itself if you just eat this or take that. And so that breeds a lot of distrust in kind of these non-natural solutions, doctors, hospitals, big food, non-organics, dieticians. Yes, real war against dieticians. Real war against dieticians. A lot of holistic nutritionists will tell me and tell their followers actually that dieticians like me can't be trusted because we represent the antithesis to this all natural clean eating lifestyle. I have a lot of people who tell me dietitians are like fully shit-talked in their holistic educations. It's wild to me because I see us being able to very nicely work together. But I'm curious, do you think your education

contributed or exacerbated those orthorexic tendencies? I do, I do. And I think it also made me have a lot of distrust in Western medicine. Sure. And I mean, gosh, I could tell you a lot of stories about how after that education, how many things I tried to cure naturally,

you know, like nothing serious, of course, but whatever it was and like like, then finally ending up at the doctor's office. And they were like, why did you leave this so long? Or why did you let this drag on? Or why weren't you listening to these symptoms? And I was like, well, I tried to do it naturally. And I'm not a doctor, you know, I mean, I do know a lot about the body, but I'm not an internal medicine specialist. Of course. There's, you know, my skills and knowledge only go so far. So

I think that was also to my detriment because I mean, I can even remember recommending to friends and family to not do this thing that their doctor was recommending, but maybe to go the route that, you route that I was proposing. This is not like a 12-year education that I'm in, and it's very multidisciplinary. So you're not going super deep into specific topics, although I did after studying in the school because I became really fascinated with certain aspects of holistic wellness. So yeah, I'd say that it exacerbated an already existing proclivity to go the natural route whenever possible. And it did that by minimizing the effectiveness of Western or allopathic medicine. Right. Yeah. And there is so much research with we look at

nutrition and naturopathic students that we do see clearly higher rates of end disorders like orthorexia, anorexia and bulimia, as well as just a greater fixation on wheat and food. So there's one study that I always talk about that found that about 50% of nutrition professionals will exhibit orthorexic tendencies. And you know, there's probably a bit of a chicken and an egg situation because folks who are already kind of struggling in their relationship with food, they are just more likely to come into that, that industry, they want to learn more about it. But then when they get there, as you've kind of described, there's a lot of fear, it reinforces and justifies that obsession by painting anything and many things as something to be feared when it comes to these foods. That was definitely my

experience. And for me to actually recover and heal from my ED after I got through my dietetics training, I actually had to cut ties with anything to do with nutrition for a couple of years. I was a dietitian, but I was like, I'm not working as a dietitian because I need to clear, to get a clean slate from this education. So I went into food reporting, local food journalism, I was going to you know, I was having mocktails, cocktails, tacos, pizza, going to food events and on a week night every week, every single night of the week, basically, I had to like, go all in, but so that afterwards, I could kind of

be done with these this moralizing belief system about food. And then I was better able to use my degree and work in the field from that that neutral standpoint. And that was so important for my own kind of my own personal and also professional journey. But yeah, you know, these things, Eds don't turn off, right? You just constantly surveil. Yeah, you're constantly surveilling the surroundings. You're checking in with yourself.

You're keeping an eye on triggers. It's exhausting. And I find that one of the frequent scenarios that I've watched a lot of very, very strict raw vegans run into is that once they come to the realization that the way they're eating doesn't feel good, as you did, then they swing the pendulum in the opposite direction and then they go like full

carnivore, like raw carnivore, full keto, and then they never touch a vegetable. So it's like the definition of clean and healthy just changes dramatically, but they're still stuck experiencing food in these black and white dichotomous terms. And I'm curious for you, what stopped you from going down that steep peak into carnivore pipeline? It's so funny, it's so true though, this really happens, it's fascinating. I can think of a few people right now again that I saw a transition from that. I think I of a few people right now again that I saw a transition from that. I think I realized through this recovery process how extreme I had been, even though I didn't

realize it. I was really resistant to ever return to that. I have found such a moderate place. Again, my diet really, although it has changed a lot, the foundation really has it. It's like, I still eat the exact same way I always did. I just also have meat. Right.

So it's still, I mean, I'm still so focused on nutrient density, on fiber, on minerals, and on this synergistic effect of food of ingredients. And so I guess, I can't lie, it has crossed my mind because I'm also really fascinated by different diets and how they're structured. And one of the reasons I tried raw veganism in the first place was simply out of curiosity. It's like, how will this make me feel? And one of the reasons I tried raw veganism in the first place was simply out of curiosity.

It's like, how will this make me feel? So I can't say that I haven't been curious about trying a more protein and fat centric diet with animal proteins, but Abby, I just know that when I start thinking about food too much, it gets into a disordered place for me. And I'm pretty vigilant about it. I just know when like, a lot of my thoughts are preoccupied with food and not in like a relaxed way in like a little more like a restrictive way, in whatever that looks like.

I know that I gotta chill. Yeah, I just gotta take a step back and breathe. Because I really, I think having a full life means a balance of everything, taking up mental space. And, you know, I run my own business, I have a family, I have a home, I have a community, and I want to have the capacity for all of those things in a balanced way. When food starts taking over, I have less space for the other things, which bring me a lot of joy and, and pleasure and, and presence. So I haven't actually gone those roots, you know, the keto paleo carnivore

type, because I feel amazing right now. I've been living pain free for like two years now. And I'm no longer a candidate for surgery. Wow. I feel so good, like literally euphoric in my body. I really don't want to change anything. And I don't want to start counting macros or calories or any of that stuff because it's a really slippery slope and taking me a long time to find the place where I care enough but not too much because as soon as I tip over that edge then everything becomes imbalanced so I just I love myself too much to go down that path and I can't say that I never will because again I'm a curious person how would I feel if I ate that way for a little while? For now, I'm just really happy and balanced and stable.

And nothing is worth disrupting that. I love that. What a great way. What a great way to end off, because that is exactly what I stand for. And in terms of, you know, finding your unique combination of foods and lifestyle and therapy and for all the acts of self care, what works for you. And it is so highly individualized.

That's why following the advice of a TikToker online is never going to get you where you've just described you being, which is just is the ultimate goal. So I'm so happy that you have found something that works for you physically and emotionally and spiritually, socially. It sounds like you've ticked all the boxes, so this is great. And just thank you for sharing your story. I'm sure a lot of folks can identify with your experience as they are trying to find that middle ground between taking care of their health and obsessing over it to the point of sickness.

So I'm definitely gonna be leaving some links to your beautiful blog and your social media channels and your book if you're looking for some gorgeous recipe inspiration I definitely check it out it's thank you amazing thank you so much thanks for having me Love that conversation with Sarah and you know one of the core themes that I heard in Sarah's story and that I also hear in so many other folks' orthorexia stories is this idea that what and how we eat is a mirror reflection of who we are. That it is our entire identity. To

be clear, I am all for making a choice to go vegan, for example, but there can be a lot of potential dangers in becoming unwaveringly married to a specific diet label and allowing it to override every other aspect of who we are. Because as we saw with Sarah and also a number of other popular vegan influencers like Minimalist Baker and Jordan Younger, formerly known as the Vegan Blonde,

if you ever do make the choice, either willingly or semi-unwillingly, to do something as seemingly benign as eat an egg, you are driven into a full-blown identity crisis. But being raw vegan or carnivore or clean eating healthy girl is not an identity. What foods you use to fuel your everyday activity do not define the kind of person that you are. And as I always say here, your diet should be the least interesting thing about you. So if you're finding that you're really having a hard time letting go of the food rules that you've adopted as part of your identity, I wanted to share some quick little tips. Number one, make a list of all the most

important things that you value in your life. If you're vegan for the animals, no one is asking you to give up on that empathy. If you've adopted a quote-unquote clean eating lifestyle for health, no one is suggesting that you now only should eat fast food. Empathy for other living things and our health are really important values, but I want you to consider the other aspects of your life that you want for yourself. Perhaps that may include a focus on family, cultural or community participation, professional development, spirituality, personal growth, learning, etc.

And with that, I want you to consider the ways that your food rules have encroached on these other important values and aspects of who you are. Has it made it difficult to participate in traditional family meals? Are you constantly feeling offended, triggered, or segregated from others who don't share the same diet? Has it distracted you from excelling in your job at work or a spiritual practice like meditation or prayer. Next, I want you to ask if your passion and value for health has actually brought you said health. It's very possible that your knee-jerk defense response to this is that absolutely it has. Like maybe you will tell yourself that your skin has cleared up or you lost weight or your

IBS hasn't flared as much. But there may be other aspects to your health that you've lost because of your rigidity. Are you tired all the time? Are you cold? Is your hair thinning and falling out? It's also important to consider that health is more than just the absence of disease. So are you constantly thinking about the food that you can and cannot have? Are you feeling immense guilt if you slip up and eat something quote-unquote unclean? Are you spending a ton of time or energy researching the healthfulness or acceptability of specific ingredients in available foods?

Just imagine for a moment what your holistic sense of health would be like if that burden was lifted. Finally, consider if there's a way to honour those values in a more balanced, moderate way that doesn't compromise other aspects of your life. Reflect on what it might feel like to let go of the black and white mentality and live for a moment in the grey. For someone like Sarah, that looks like eating mostly plants complemented by certain animal products that fuel her body and have been produced in ways that align with her ethics. For someone like myself, who suffered from orthorexia, it means eating a variety of nutrient-dense

foods rich in fibre, protein, and healthy fats, but allowing myself judgment-free access to less nutritious foods like ice cream and pizza that bring me joy. There's no blueprint to guide the journey from orthorexia to food freedom, so I always recommend working with a mental health professional

to help you deprogram and untwist your diet from your identity and find that balanced lifestyle that allows all of your values to coexist in your life. I'm gonna be leaving some links in the show notes to help you find the support that you may need. And on that note, that is all for today's episode of Bite Back. Thank you again to Sarah for sharing her journey. I really do hope that this episode was informative and educational and I would love if you would leave Bite Back a quick little review and also share it with some

friends because it really does help me out as a new podcast to get the word out. Signing off with Science and Sass, I'm Abbey Sharp, thanks for listening.