Bite Back with Abbey Sharp - “I Don’t Trust Them” - Branding Expert Camille Moore on Arrae’s Dishonest Protein Marketing

Episode Date: September 23, 2025

Here’s a run down of what we discussed in today’s episode:IntroductionWhy Wellness Marketing Hits DifferentAG1 and the Power of Strategy Over SubstanceTikTok Green Flags and Red FlagsWhat Gen Z and Millennials Really Want From BrandsWhen Transparency Becomes a SuperpowerArrae Protein and Other Marketing FailsOther Sneaky Tactics Wellness Brands UseCrisis Mode: How (Not) to Handle a PR DisasterInfluencer Partnerships That Make or Break a BrandHot Seat: Camille Reviews Neue TheoryThree Red Flags to Watch For in Wellness MarketingHow to Spot Hype vs. TruthCheck in with today’s amazing guest: Camille MooreWebsite: camille-moore.comPodcast: The Art of the BrandCompany: Third Eye InsightsInstagram: @Camillemoore Disclaimer: The content in this episode is for educational and entertainment purposes only and is never a substitute for medical advice. If you’re struggling with with your mental or physical health, please work one on one with a health care provider.If you have heard yourself in our discussion today, and are looking for support, contact the free NEDIC helpline at 1-866-NEDIC-20 or go to eatingdisorderhope.com.  🥤 Check out my 2-in-1 Plant Based Probiotic Protein Powder, neue theory at www.neuetheory.com or @neuetheory and use my promo code BITEBACK20 to get 20% off your order! Don’t forget to Please subscribe on Apple, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts and leave us a review! It really helps us out. ✉️ SUBSCRIBE TO MY NEWSLETTERS ⤵️Neue Theory newsletterAbbey's Kitchen newsletter 🥞 FREE HUNGER CRUSHING COMBO™ E-BOOK! 💪🏼 FREE PROTEIN 101 E-BOOK! 📱 Follow me! Instagram: @abbeyskitchenTikTok: @abbeyskitchenYouTube: @AbbeysKitchen My blog, Abbey’s Kitchen www.abbeyskitchen.comMy book, The Mindful Glow Cookbook affiliate link: https://amzn.to/3NoHtvf If you liked this podcast, please like, follow, and leave a review with your thoughts and let me know who you want me to discuss next!

I don't trust them. And for them to have on their video a beautiful husband and wife couple that have launched this small business talking about they wanted to enter into the protein space but do it differently, it's all a lie. Welcome to another episode of Bite Back with Abby Sharp, where I dismantled die culture rules, call out the charlatans spinning the pseudoscience and help you achieve food freedom for good. Today, we are diving deep into the world of wellness marketing, where the lines between health, hype, and hustle can get really blurry, really fast. From supplements that promise miracles to campaigns that prey on our insecurities, the wellness industry is full of bold claims and beautiful packaging, but not always a lot of trustworthiness and truth.

And to help us make sense of it all, I'm joined. by Camille Moore, a branding expert and founder of Third Eye Insights, a full-service marketing agency that helps brands connect with their audience without compromising on integrity. Today, Camille and I are going to be talking about some of the biggest marketing fails in the wellness space. And yes, we are naming names. We are going to talk about the shady tactics that brands use to build trust and then break your trust. We're going to chat about how not to work with celebrities and influencers, and why transparency is not just a buzzword, but a true form of currency for millennial and Gen Z consumers. Very quickly, if you were not

already subscribed, I would love if you would hit that subscribe button wherever you get your podcast, because it really does help me out as a new podcast. And if you would also leave us a little comment on this episode and a five-star review if you're enjoying the show. So folks, if you have ever stood in the health food aisle staring down a wall of options, wondering which brand to trust this episode is for you. Let's get into it. All right, Camille, I am so excited about this interview. I don't know how this has not happened before because you were friends with my sister-in-law and I've been with her since she was like a little 10-year-old. So I'm very excited to make this happen.

I actually bought your first cookbook. That's crazy. Because we were so proud of Alana's brother's wife being this famous. So I have Abby's kitchen in my kitchen. How long ago was that? That was like seven years ago. Yeah. So this is a full circle moment.

I'm very excited. Okay. We've got lots to talk about. And obviously you work with a wide range of categories of clients. But we're obviously going to focus on wellness because this is the bite back. with Addy Sharp podcast. So just to kind of start us off here, you know, obviously good branding, good marketing is important for any brand. Why is it so critical in the wellness category? Cool, because there's just so much snake oil. Yeah. Right. Like it's, it's really fascinating.

There's a bunch of, there's a bunch of reasons. The first is anything health and wellness is, historically has been like the magic pill. Like it has been the snake oil because people don't, you know, just want to eat their broccoli. Like just want to do, they want to do like the, drink the water, you know, they want to get the HG1 and, you know, everything's going to be healthy. No problem. You talk about three times and you don't worry. If you drink HG1, you're good. But that's kind of the first thing.

The second, the second reason is politically it's never been more relevant. So with the last U.S. election cycle, it really turned on make America healthy again. And it's been really fascinating from the rule that I sit and what I need to study from what's happening within the psychology of. Gen Pop, where you're really seeing a massive shift towards monies being invested in anything health and wellness and organic. And it's why podcasts and platforms like yours are so important because the consumers are becoming more educated. So previously, the target market persona of health and wellness tended to be upper middle class educated when women have children. That's when that buying decision because it's no longer about you. It's about you now have other people you're

bringing into the world. But after Trump winning and really how that election cycle changed, the idea of health and wellness and making healthy decisions has now entered into an entirely different economical class. And for that reason, the market cap of market health and wellness is much bigger. So it's so much more important that not only is the messaging accurate, but if you're a business that's in the space, understanding how to break through, because your conception of how to communicate is often very different than what the consumer is looking for. Oh, yeah. Oh, my gosh. That is, I never really thought about the political, like, implications of this, but you're, you're absolutely right. It really does affect everyone. And, you know,

from my perspective, as a brand owner and also a dietitian, like, there's just so much competition. Like, there's just so many products out there. Every single day I'm seeing, you know, new products on my TikTok feed, new things pop up in my mailbox. And so it is very hard for the layperson to make sense of, you know, what is worth trying and what is what is not. Especially when everybody wants to be healthy now. Of course. Right. And which is a great thing. But people want to be healthy without really the most important piece, which is education. Right. Like to be healthy without being educated allows you to buy these products. that say like gluten-free when there was never gluten in them, you know? And that's where you're seeing really this like wellness washing of trying to do people to making, because it's, it becomes

a treat, right? We're in a treat economy. You feel like you're treating yourself if you do something that's healthy, but like it tastes good and like it tastes sweet. And like, and again, we're not talking about a very niche specific audience that is like, I know what sugar tastes like. we're talking about really everybody entering into wanting to make healthier very much with air quote choices. And that's actually interesting that you brought that up. For those who've never heard this term, what is wellness washing? Really the idea of making anything and everything seem healthy. Like literally drinks that are like 30 or 40% juice in them be a healthier alternative, which don't get me wrong. Like it's better than 100% juice. But

but it's not healthy. Right. Right. We often call this like a health halo where, you know, you're taking one attribute of a food and extrapolating it to the rest of the food. So, for example, we saw this for many years with, like, organic or, you know. Bamboo. Bamboo. Yeah.

Vegan or gluten-free. And it's like we would see the gluten-free on the package and people would automatically think, oh, that's a good choice. It's healthy. It's healthy. So they were eating gluten-free cookies being like, yeah, I can eat more of these gluten-free cookies because they're gluten-free and therefore healthy when really they had just as much sugar and fat and, you know, preservatives as the regular cookies did.

Yeah, totally. Okay, speaking, I just want to talk about, like, virality. And obviously, like, I get served ads on TikTok and Instagram. You get served ads on these things all the time. When it comes to these wellness products, what is it, like, what are some green flags and red flags in a wellness products marketing that says, okay, that's a good one that I want to try or that one's worth me looking more into. It's actually a really sad and complicated time. This answer is not going to be simple. At the scariest end, you're seeing AI and the ability to take

creators who you respect, take their image and their voice, and create a fake ad, which is a huge issue. It's happened to me many, many times where, you know, these, these crazy weird brands are fly-by-night brands. Pop up. Yeah. Pop up using my, my, basically got my name and likeness. They're just AI changing my voice slightly to say the words about their product. It's horrible. Horrible. And the platforms won't do anything about it. No, because they literally have no one to speak to. It's, it is, so that's the thing that sucks because the true answer where this conversation is going is a lot of the brands that are screaming the loudest that are doing such a great job of branding and marketing from like a messaging from a branding from a positioning aren't that good of products and that's what makes this so

complicated is that really the default is knowing like knowing being able to be educated in the space and then two people that you can trust but it becomes very difficult on that second point when your likeness, your name, your voice can be stolen and you can be running ads. So the kind of the best way is to be informed that this industry specifically is one that's their beauty and wellness are two where everyone wants to look younger, everyone wants to look better, everyone wants to feel healthier, live longer, be skinnier, whatever, whatever the adjective de jure is. But if you're only doing it based on ads you're being served late night, you're probably going to be duped.

So you just need to reinforce. And you just, I think it really comes down to research and education, which is what's so beautiful about the internet of things is you can decide if you want to wear clean, clean clothing or not and make clean food choices. You can decide if you want to have clean cleaning products, but you want to do Botox. Like, you should be an informed consumer that is making your decisions of, because that's the other thing, too, is you'll get a range of opinions, they're yours to decide, and they're also yours to try. Yeah, yeah. No, that's super helpful. And, you know, so as a brand owner, we look at marketing data and we see consistently that, you know, Gen Z and millennials were all very much

attracted to transparency and trustworthiness, candid storytelling. Are you seeing, maybe you can give us some examples of brands who are doing like a really good job at that. And why is is that even important at this point? The brands that are doing it right are the brands that are messaging simply. And this is the paradox that hurts well-intentioned, well-informed business owners is that it becomes very difficult for them to communicate their art and passion in a simple way. So I'd say like aura ring is doing a fantastic job where they're really messaging and speaking at like a grade three, grade five level. But if you're, and that's the piece. If you want more information, it exists and it's there for you.

But what Oura Ring does right is that it simply satisfies my rat brain. And that's what most wellness brands or well-intended, well-intended people that really know their shit get wrong, is that they're speaking at like a high school level when even though we're both university plus educated, when I'm scrolling online, that brain ain't on. No, stop. No, bye. And if it takes more calories to consume, you've lost my attention. So Oira Ring does a great job. I think othership does a great job. The usual suspects do a great job.

Like I think Symbiotica does a good job. You know, the question is like do a lot of their, are all of their products great? But from the, is there stuff? It comes back to like steal like an artist. Because we're also going to talk about Array. And like there's definitely stuff that you can steal like an artist. When you were saying millennials love storytelling, that's why UGC. blew up.

Yes. We were sick of Kim Kardashian posting about stuff that she wasn't using and she was getting paid to use or not use, but post-bout. And UGC was like real. So like what most business owners, when they get into the space, like this is a revolutionary product. No one has ever seen anything like this. And therefore, everything we should do has never been done before. I'm like, no. Like steal like an artist.

Don't copyright, but adapt to your brand. Like take a concept, figure out. analyze what is working, what posts work the best for them? What get the most comments? What gets most views? What can you learn from that? What is the hook? What is the background? Is it low-fi? Is it a shot on an iPhone? Is it high-fi? Is it produced in a studio? What is it that you can take from that? And then that's what I would say, like, what to kind of redo? Because there's a ton of brands doing right. But there's also brands that you can take from that aren't, like, what can you learn from Apple? What can you learn from the top influencers and creators that have brands? Like,

What can you learn and take to adapt to your brand? I love that. Wow. My wheels are turning right now about, like, you know, all the great content and all the bad content that I've seen on that. So let's talk about the flip side, because you just brought up Array. And you actually posted a video recently kind of talking about feeling duped and disappointed by Array's marketing for their, with their recent clear protein product. And for those who didn't see your hot take or my kind of duet of it, do you want to kind of explain what went down there? Yeah, like it, it, I'm prepared to say the things that people aren't.

Yeah. Because I, branding and marketing, like, I'm really, there's such an art to it. It's so powerful. Branding is really everything. The brands that we wear, the brands that we buy, they dictate our lives, the stories we tell. Like, it is really one of the most. important industries from how humans connect and signal. But it, there's just so much money being wasted and like bullshittery that like it's not being talked about. And Array is, is, it was hard

for me to do. And I use that intro because I'm, I have no qualms showing up and being like, that was a shitty campaign. That was dumb. That was a cash barbecue. But Array made me sad. Because I use them a lot as a case study for business owners. And I really have praised how SIFHater built a CPG brand by leaning into her personal brand. And that is often the hardest thing for business owners that don't have a massive capital or backing to be like, how do I enter into a saturated space? And leaning into your personhood is often the best way of doing that because you get to like show the behind the scenes. So I've used Siv Hater and Array as really like my go-to example of when I'm speaking to small and medium-sized business owners of like, this is how a millennial broke through an extremely saturated industry. And I'm so impressed by what she's doing.

And I bought the product. Yep. So I bought with my own money, the clear protein product. I've bought a ton of products from them. And I was pumped that it was coming. I was excited. I'm so on this protein train. I felt so informed. And I'm like, I'm like, I'm just, I'm such an informed buyer. I'm buying my clear protein. I'm going to drink all this water all day with my protein in it. And I was really excited. And I was sitting down with a client that I deeply respect.

And she's like, haven't you seen all the comments? And I'm like, no, because like, I'm not a comment reader. And I was blown away by, I was duped by the marketing. And I'm an informed. formed, educated, I think, not at your level, but at, you know, at the above average level of Jen Pop, an educated consumer. And I actually, I felt really stupid. And I felt really sad because I'm looking at a $130 box of single serving sticks that I truly, it's like sitting on the floor of my pantry because I'm like, it, I just feel due. So let's go into it. So basically what happens is they launched this revolutionary product. So clean protein has been out there, but it hasn't really been marketed within like the, I would say like elite premium healthcare space. A hundred percent agree. I like I've done a lot of sampling of clear proteins and they're all from like they're very, they're gross to be honest. I haven't found one that I can tolerate. But they also just like really sketchy brands from like I don't know where they're coming from. I don't know what's in them. Right. Yeah. It's not mainstream yet.

There's no, there's no one putting their name to it with weight where I'm like, I'm going to try it. Right. And Tilla Ray. Tillowray. And I was like, damn straight. So anyways, so basically the point is, is that their marketing is it, and you have to fact check me, is it 30 grams of protein they're marketing? 15 grams per stick. So what's the real amount?

Oh, the real amount. Like, what are they marketing it? Is it 15 grams just in? Yeah. The first, yeah, the front of label says 15 grams of protein per stick of where. and collagen protein. Protein. No, it just says, it says 15 grams of protein per stick. Oh, yes.

Yeah. Anyways. Fast forward. The number one ingredient is collagen, which is not a complete source of protein. So the digestability score of it is like so low that you're maybe getting three grams of protein. And weight doesn't taste good. And weight doesn't dissolve well. So there's like, I'm being a little bit dramatic, but pretty much tracing.

amounts of way protein. Correct. And, you know, I have to say that I also was duped by the marketing. And again, like, if anyone's going to be educated in this, it's a brand owner of a protein powder company and a dietitian. I bought it because I, again, I'm on the hunt for a good clear protein, just personally, but also just, you know, for market research. And because the front of label packaging, it's beautiful. All their marketing says weigh and collagen, way and collagen. It always lists weigh first, which makes you feel like, okay, this is mainly way protein and maybe there's like, you know, maybe five grams of, of collagen to get a clinical dose of collagen or whatever. And when I turned it around to look closely at the nutrition

label, it actually said collagen first. And for those who don't know, ingredients are listed on labels in terms of weight, which is the highest in weight. So if collagen comes first, it means there's more collagen than weigh. That was my first read. flag because I was like, hmm, I wonder how much way is actually in this. And when you said it, I had a member of my team reach out to them and ask, okay, how much is actually collagen, how much is weigh? And they were told in the email, this is a collagen supplement fortified with way, which like you said, could mean there is a sprinkle of way in there. Literally like. Literally just exactly, like a pinch. I could like, way could fart on it and they could say,

that it has way. And so, and that makes sense to me because it weighs way more expensive than collagen. Doesn't, doesn't dissolve nicely. Doesn't taste good. Correct. And it's, but it's so, it's, it speaks to like the disappointment of the industry that there really is no regulations. All of that stuff is obvious. You know, like, it's obvious how sketchy the industry is. To me, the larger issue with branding at present is this idea of like perpetual capitalism. that businesses have to always have bigger quarters. And you can tell that they are gunning towards evaluation to IPO because they're losing the integrity of their brand

and they're prepared to sell out their lists and their weight for a dollar. That isn't the art of branding. And to me, why it makes me sad is that was an intentional decision that the brand made. This isn't a, this wasn't a PR mistake. And it becomes actually complicated to talk about, like, what should they have done? Because really, I don't trust them.

And for them to have on their video, a beautiful husband-in-wife couple that have launched this small business talking about they wanted to enter into the protein space, but do it differently. It's all a lie. And it's business owners need to be careful of doing that because we are going into a down economy. We are, we are in a time of AI is effing horrifying. And we are seeking brands that have trust in credibility. And we're moving away from this guise of like, we're all wearing like polyester. And it's, it speaks to like the larger issue and that brand doesn't have legs. It's not going to be around. And it, I just, it's almost like I don't even want to give them more air time because they intentionally made a decision that is like the worst thing they should have done for their brand when they were doing

so many things right. And it makes me sad. Yeah. I, and that's not their first offense. It's kind of being a series of disappointments from my perspective, like the creatine gummies saying, you know, 90 gummies. There's five grams of creatine. It's not until you look very, very carefully at this little area on the website that you see that you need four gummies to get those five grams of creatine, which means you've got a supplement that costs five times what it should. And then calling their fat burning supplement faux-Zampic was infuriating to me to insinuate that a supplement could be as as effective as a powerful pharmaceutical like Ozmpic. Exactly. Yeah, like it really rewires the point. It's such deceptive marketing.

And I don't want to only throw like area under the bus because there's so many brands who are making these kinds of mistakes. I do think it's different. Yeah. I do think Fosempec is different than going to market with 15 grams of protein when there's like, it's like a one-fifth digestibility scores. There would be three to five grams max essentially in terms of what you can utilize for muscle protein synthesis. because, like you said, collagen is just so poorly buy-available. It's just, like, to me, that's a different box because, like, Phozampic, if you're looking for a natural solution to a pharmaceutical drug, like, it's a cute word, I guess.

It's cute, but it's also like, it's, you're, you're choosing to not go with the powerful thing that works. It's like saying, like, fake Adderall. Like, the whole point is, like, it's releasing chemicals in your brain to, like, it, to stop you from eating. It's like, so to call it the fake, oh, Zemphic is in the territory of, I respect that from a marketing ploy than actually truly decepting people, saying that there's something there that it is intently deceptive. And that to me is like a box that the average person listening to this, your problem if you're a business owner, if you're wanting to launch a business is, and that's the issue is that the spectrum is so large that people aren't prepared to say like the honest things because, they're so deep in their work, like being a dietitian. Like there's things that are like

gray to say. Like they're not wrong. They're not right. That you won't do that could sacrifice the simplicity of that rat brand and that simple message to the extreme of like full blown lying on a package. And that's the issue that I face. It's like I need to move the average business owner like 15% into the gray zone in order for you to be super effective. But then the people who are like that operate into like wild west are the ones that ruin it for everyone because your brain goes to like you're in your brain that association is so close even though in reality it's it's so far apart does that make sense 100% yeah and that's why i always say you know as a dietitian myself like i can't fight magic like you know when i'm up against all these

influencers who are making these extraordinary sensationalized claims and, you know, you know, statements they're trying to sell you witchcraft, basically. Like, I can't fight that. I can't, I'm never going to be able to, you know, go up against that with as a fair fight because I'm not going to be able to to say something that is as dishonest as that or dishonest at all. Like the castor oil, like, really patches like, no, it's like, it's like, really. like do we need to have a conversation on this but but that's the thing that makes me sad is that like

i i i i didn't expect it's like i you know it's like when you get duped by these like scammy telephone calls you're like i feel too smart for this but but it but it happened and it's uh it's not cool yeah i'm i'm glad you brought it up um and so you mentioned you just briefly said like i don't even know what they would have done it so but i'm curious like whether it's a ray or or any other company Like, when you're in a PR crisis like that, like, what should a ray have done or any other brand in that situation when people were coming out in the comments being like, oh, this is not 15 grams of protein? What, how do you come back from that? Or, like, did they? What do you do?

Do people care? They didn't know. Right. They were just like, well, hopefully people won't notice. That's the stance they took. You know, it's, it's complicated because. I'm not privy to the decisions that happen behind the scenes. So strategy is just so tied to the business's goals.

And it's so abundantly clear to me that the goal is increasing subscriptions, you know, to get a stock to IPO. And Skims is doing the same thing. Skims is going to IPO. So, like, I'm now getting good enough to, like, read the signs. So it's hard for me to do that because by kind of, by doing the right thing, you're walking into territory of, you know, there's a lot of people that they can do because it's become this like, it's almost like a road. No, it's like this cool girl, pretty girl brand, you know, where it's like, I, you know, I feel good ripping open a $7 bag at, you know, while I'm out drinking with my

girlfriends in university. And there's this discretionary income where there's like, there's, there's no ramification to your decision making. It's a, it's a treat. I think what they I think what they should have done, notwithstanding the reality that they're probably IPOing, they are operating under, you know, they want out of their company. They're not looking to build longevity in their brand. They should have had a discussion as to here's why we chose this formulation. Here's why we chose collagen overweight. I think having a conversation talking about, you know, it's just, it's so tough. because you literally are putting 15 grams on the bag, and that's a lie.

You don't even, like, it's just, it's, I just, I wouldn't do it. Yeah. But I also feel like she's really heavily retreated. I think that their next, I would be really interested to see, I get data from a company called Particle. Have you heard of Particle? No. And Particle's a really cool brand that it allows you to basically go in and see all of the sales off

of other people's Shopify websites. and you can track the data actually at a pretty, like, cool level. Like, it's, you can see, like, buy skew, like, what's their most successful skews, like, sales to date, sales by month. You have to have a certain threshold of sales. So, like, if it's, like, you know, your cousin's Shopify that she launched a week ago, it, you know, it has to be, like, a legit brand. But my interest is tracking where how their next few launches start to track because there's a typical. point to success into failure. And that's what most people miss is that they look for proverbial like bud light or cracker barrel moments. And those happen very rarely. It's often, I call it brand death

by a thousand cuts. You start to make a series of wrong decisions that slowly starts to take the brand off track. And by the time the brand can really realize it at a measurable level, it's going to cost way too much time, money, and effort to bring the brand back. And I think that that was one of their, like a huge gash over a cut that will create further ramifications down the line that I anticipate and hope, because I feel like it should have ramifications that will derail the brand. Yeah. Yeah. That's very helpful. I want to touch on influencer marketing for a moment because, I mean, we were just talking about, like, you know, the movement away from like mega influencer marketing and things like that. But obviously, working with influencers or

content creators, it really can make or break your brand campaign, just depending on how that goes. Any examples of what to do and what not to do in 2025? Because this is always changing. It is always changing. It also, so it's, influencers play a role in the larger funnel. It depends how much money you have, what your goals are. And I think that's a big thing is a lot of this stuff, it comes across as like table stakes or boxes to check when you can have very different goals and be in a very different place financially. So you don't have to have influencers to be successful. You should have a person of influence, whether that's yourself as a founder and you lean in thought leadership, whether you use customers that are

honest and truthful and it comes down to like who are your shared values and your customers like what do they care about what do they look to if you're launching and starting out you do not need a macro influencer you don't need a celebrity in fact even like uGC like if you just get five friends of yours to like record videos and you you don't need to pay for a platform like billow or a platform like skeepers yeah it's changed so much so much 10 years yeah and from my i i kind occupy this interesting space because I'm a brand owner myself, but I also have spent the last 15 years working with brands as a content creator. And, you know, back to that, that piece that we were talking about earlier about the importance of trust and transparency. It's like the biggest

mistake that I have seen, at least from my perspective, is just these dishonest influencer campaigns where, you know, I can't tell you how many times that brands have said to me, we don't want you to disclose. We don't want you to put the hashtag AD in there. We don't want anyone to know that this is an ad. And so from my, you know, I'm like, no, this is FTC, you know, rules. This is my college rules. This is, this is not good for anyone. It's not good for my brand to be dishonest about this. And it's certainly not good for the, the brand itself to be coming across as like paying off celebrities or influencers without actually having any, you know, disclosure there. So I think that it's an interesting dichotomy because on the one hand, you know, millennials and Gen Z are

tired of seeing Kwonko ads, but they're still looking for that honesty and that transparency. The thing that's interesting, though, on the influencer front is that there's a lot of delusion. Like, people have to really understand the role that it plays. And it's an And what is that worth to your brand? Because if at the end of the day, you're, you're constantly fighting for a position. And one of my favorite books I recommend business owners to read is called Playbigger. And the idea is like you shouldn't go into a market unless you could be the category king, which is owning 76 percent because otherwise you exist in that mushy middle. And that's what target's kind of facing right now. It's like there's no clear position for the

brand. And people don't know where to place it. And then because you're in the mushy middle, it's the worst place to be because you've done all of this credibility of all of this money, but you can't own a place in the market. So the issue with influencers is that influencers give your brand credibility. They hold a real estate in people's mind so that you're considered. So to go back to the point on like all the sketchy, clear protein brands, they don't hold real estate in my mind. There's no brand weight. So a lot of what influencers do is like, yes, they can sell, but there's more of a randomness to where someone is in the

funnels. You have to really understand the consumer funnel, right? Awareness, consideration, intention, and conversion. And that's why when I create a controversial video, like, so clear protein actually wasn't an awareness piece. Like the video I did recently was like Happy Gilmore too. That one is right now is like half a million. And it's like everyone commenting on and it's like, you're an idiot. That's the best movie ever. And it's like, oh, it was so bad. It's like construction workers in Iowa. I'm like, you're not my customers. No. Oh, this is a a great response but like the clear protein is actually more of like a middle of the funnel because you have to like be more of like a business owner that like understands what I'm it gets not actually

like a top of funnel piece of content so the point is is that influencers they can be the difference if you're already considering and you're already in the funnel but more often than not it reinforces trust and credibility which gives your which gives your brand a brand which moves you through those three different levels and one of the things that we were just talking about is the rules changing in the United States and enforcing influencers to disclose the hashtag ad. And the reason why that happened was because consumers were being duped. It was a huge issue. Huge.

But it's like kind of one of those like laws that like every few years, you know, some, it's always on political cycles. Yep. Somebody comes in and they crack down and someone is the sacrificial lamb. And right now it's actually, it's a class action. Allo lawsuit. Oh, interesting. And there's two lawsuits that are happening right now. The first one is basically Allos, like making all of these like banner ads and like social ads saying that there's a sale and the sale is ending in 24 hours. But they're like really wasn't a sale. Like it's just their clearance items. So like they're just generating all this traffic and urgency and desire. And the

question is, you know, like how many people are harmed in that? But because. Because there's so much digital proof, because you can, like, take screenshots, there's a huge class action lawsuit on that. So that's number one. But number two is, aloe is notorious for really having, like, the most money to buy the, like, the it people. So, like, Kendall Jenner wearing her products or, like, all of the Territorious Secret Angels and Rosie Huntington included, they're all paid. And Phillip and my co-host on my podcast, or the brand, we got into, like, actually a full-blown discussion on this because, like, he comes from the camp as like a Gen X of like, that's wrong, that's bad. You know, they should be punished. And he's a lawyer as well. So, like, he was reading the law really black and white. And I'm like, I hear you. I think that FTC is here for a good reason. And I think that a lot of, like, we need it. because people are, like, buying medication that, like, doesn't work 100%. But Allo Yoga has become what it's become because of who it's paid to wear their product. And there's sometimes there's this, I think, and Allo is the example of this. Now, this is not a case you can make in law.

Like, they broke the law. But it's an interesting conversation. Sure. is that they we have a mutual contract that we've both bought into the delusion that Rosie Huntington Whiteley is... She loves her aloe.

She loves her aloe in always like curated five post swipe-throughs. It's obvious that she's paid. It's obvious that Kendall Jenner is like in these like high fidelity like on the tennis court shot, you know, like this wearing her sports stuff. That was just like paparazzi taking those photos.

It's like, totally natural. Totally. And it's like, it's, it's the, it's the, it's that mutual contract of delusion that we bought into. And it's why Allo is a leading lifestyle fitness brand because they have those names. And like, that's why Road was sold for a billion dollars is that girls could spend $50 to $100 and they could buy into the belief that they will look like Haley Bieber. And that's a big part of aspirational. branding and marketing. This isn't a strategy for everyone, but it is a strategy for mediocre at best, you know, the spandex active wear. That's not that different from

Lou Lemon, but as a different logo slapped on it. And that's how you differentiate to get out of that mushy middle when you have money. And that's like it. So that's a different strategy. But I thought that was an interesting. Super, super interesting. And I just want to kind of, we've had so many great conversations. And I didn't tell you I was going to do this. But for those who don't know, I also own a supplement company, a wellness company called New Theory. We sent you some products. Got my bottle with me. I love it. I love the represent. Okay. So if I could get some free branding advice, what could we be doing better? What could what are we doing well? If anything, what can we improve on? I'm sure there's a lot of things because we are really just fumbling through with just me and my co-founder, just learning what to do. Um, But I would love to kind of any of your thoughts on what we should be focusing on. I haven't seen any ads. Okay.

I haven't seen nothing has come across my, nothing truly to date. I am really your target customer. Great. And I haven't seen anything since you launched. Okay. And the only reason why I'd seen stuff since I launched is because I have Ginger and I have some other people on my social. that like I saw the content. But I haven't seen anything come across my, my table of like, this is a brand for me to

consider. And I find the protein industry is it's the best because it lacks the most loyalty. Like people aren't often loyal to a protein brand. But it also makes it, it makes it difficult for me to decide why to choose when there's so many of them. So the advice that I would give you is to simplify the message and to think of like really one of the books I recommend is called microscripts. And you should really develop your microscript. It's by Bill Schley. Microscripts is a great book because it talks about like you need to develop a microscript. And a microscript is in a tagline. A microscript is a three to five word sentence that

is a descriptor to your brand. So Bounty, the quicker picker upper is a microscript. Buckley's. It tastes awful, but it works, is a microscript. Got it. So it's giving you something that actually, like, it's more than a tagline. It's something that gives people a permission to buy an idea to buy into, which is also like the Donald Miller, how to build a story brand. To me, your positioning really speaks to a, you're definitely millennial skewed. There's no Gen Z to it. It really says to me, like, I'm a mom taking my protein consumption seriously.

I think it more skews to your audience. Yes. I would be really going through your comments, your language, your feedback, and using your customer's language, your customer's pain point, and then basically rebuilding a marketing strategy from that. And that's what most people miss is that anything you do in marketing and branding is should only be focused on the problems your customer has. Everything you do is giving that, they are the hero. You are the guide. How can you position what this is to guide them on what their issues are. So if yours is combating, like, I know dairy is a big thing. Yeah. Well, it's really a kind of

a gut friendly line. So because both my business partner and I have IBS and we were really had a loss for supplements that actually weren't irritating to our guts and causing bloating. So that's really our focus. But, but, uh, but, uh, but yeah. Stop bloating. Yeah. Like, stop loading. But like, have a photo of like a woman at the hockey rink. Right. Like have a, like, talk about where they're embarrassed, right? Like, um, stop cutting meals, right? Like, we know how busy it is. You know, like, you need to, like, what are there issues?

And then I'd be just be creating marketing campaigns purely based on that. But then this is the other thing, too, is have no ego, right? Like, identify on a whiteboard 15 angles. Utilize Chachyptee. Oh, yeah. Right? Yeah, 15 angles. Develop 15.

And test them. Like, we just relaunched my master class because I launched a social media branding masterclass. And I am the queen of, like, get paid to try you know like i've got no ego unfailing because it's it's worked for me so far you know like just keep going just keep going i'm from scarborough just keep going so so my point is like i literally just launched of like the same ad we do like 18 different versions of the text above below and like we'll test them out and like two of them will work we cut the rest the two of their works okay what based on that how could i keep iterating it so that's what i would say to you is like

Your packaging is fantastic. The product is amazing. I love the taste of it. I need to try the digestive bloating pills or staring at me on my desk. Because I've been eating so much protein, I actually really haven't been. Well, that's bloated. That's because our protein also has anti-blood antibiotics and that's helpful for that. Yeah. It's amazing to not be bloated. Think about how does it feel to not be bloated? Like, queen of the world. Yeah. Like, I could tackle anything if I'm not bloated. Like, I'm ready to go. Like, bloating makes you feel gross. Makes you feel like. down on yourself. You're like kind of you're like thinking about yourself. Your shoulders go in. Think about like showing the women loaded not loaded. Like those are the things to touch on. And it's like our brain overcomplicates. Like we overcomplicate it. But like most people just they will they're prepared to spend a hundred dollars to get something that takes way. But you have to speak to their like soul, their core, their problem. This is so helpful. I can just, I can hear my, my co-founder, Ginger. She's just like, oh my God, that was so amazing. That was so amazing. So I'm so, so grateful that you're able to come out and chat with me. We had a blast. We will do it again. Hopefully I'll see you at the next family party. And do you want to let us let everyone know where they can find all your amazing content? Yes. I, so my name is Camille Moore. That's like where you can get most of like the branding, social. content. All of the handles are my name. The podcast is called Art of the Brand. That's where we break down every week. Branding stuff, small business advice. My heart is with the small business owner. I think it's for most people who own businesses, they really love case studies. So I use the bigger businesses as case studies to help smaller businesses break it down for what they can learn from it. my agency is called third eye insights which is a strategic branding agency we see things that people

don't and lastly um i have an amazing social media master class that it's like it kind of is below to say even it's social media because like to do socials right you actually have a really good brand foundation so my whole thing is like people people think about the outcome they don't think about the foundation. So if you're struggling with your message, with your positioning, and this course is really for you because it breaks down my signature approach. But more than that, I'm in a really cool spot because I get to work with really like the biggest brands in the world, but then also small businesses because like I love the joy of life more than I love a dollar. Oh, you like, we balance both. We keep the lights on with the big brands. But like I keep my

heart in place with the small businesses. But almost every single time, like, Nine at a ten. These big brands recharge me and they think they have a social problem. It's always a brand problem. So if you're struggling with socials, it's because you're struggling with your brand. And this is even for myself, this is like a good wrap-up point if you're still listening. I have to keep going through this even myself, the level that I do it because when my engagement starts petering off and it's not hitting and I'm putting so much, we put so much time and effort into creating content. It's often because I've lost sight of what my audience is struggling with. And it's so easy to check along and for me to hear things, but for me to put it through a perspective that I care about versus what they care about. So this is a great way to like recombus. So really that is, and I post multiple times per day to give you value. So that is my goal. Follow me. It was just so much fun.

Okay. This was really so helpful for me personally. But also I do hope it was really insightful for you if you're looking to learn to be more savvy wellness. content and product consumers. You know, part of the reason why I want to start my own wellness line was because it was such a hotbed for misleading marketing and distrustful products. Largely because, as Camille said, this industry is so unregulated, the competition is high, people are always looking for a fast, dramatic fix, and sensationalism, even if it's

not always grounded in actual truth, tends to sell pretty well. But the next time you are moved by marketing online to buy a new supplement, an influencer's wellness program, or a new healthy snack, I want you to ask yourself if they're using any of these three deceptive tactics before you buy. The first is pseudoscientific buzzwords. Think about terms like cellular detoxification or adrenal reset or quantum healing. They sound superscienty, but without any clinical definition or measurable criteria to back. them up, they are a massive red flag. Number two is borrowed legitimacy. A lot of brands will try to piggyback on legitimate experts and institutions without full transparency of their involvement. For example, calling a product doctor formulated lends itself immediate legitimacy. But a term like that could mean virtually nothing without further clarification. Was the doctor actually in the lab

testing the formulation? Or did they just make an appearance on a conference call after the fact? Does the doctor work in a relevant area of practice? Or like, are they a radiologist trying to sell skin care? And is the quote quote doctor even a medical doctor at all? Or are they a chiropractor or have a PhD in astrology. Transparency of the details makes a massive difference here. And number three, are they engaging in dishonest testimonial abuse? In an age of AI, it is becoming increasingly challenging to weed out what is real and what is fake. But if a brand is using obviously altered before and after photos with filters and editing and manipulated timelines, if you are seeing dozens of glowing reviews the moment a product is launched, or if you're seeing obvious paid

influencer testimonials without disclosure, it is a red flag that they are likely being dishonest in other aspects of their business as well. Trying to separate a good product from good marketing often feels like it requires FBI-like investigative skills. So don't feel bad if you've fallen victim to scam artists with broken promises more than once. This is literally my job, and even I get duped by good wellness product marketing and influencer campaigns. But hopefully this episode gave you a little bit of food for thought

on how to interpret the ads that you see in your feed. Thank you, Gant, Camille Moore, for helping me bite back against misinformation and diet culture. A quick reminder to please subscribe wherever you get your podcast, and again, leave me a five-star review if you're enjoying the podcast. But that's all for me today. Signing off with Science and Stass.

I'm Abby Sharp. Thanks for listening.