Bite Back with Abbey Sharp - The PINK PILL for Women's Sexual Desire - Why it Took 10x Longer for Women's Addyi vs Men's Viagara with Cindy Eckert & Julie Bristow

Starting point is 00:00:00 The cultural narrative for so long has been that, you know, pleasure is a right for men. It is theirs to receive. And pleasure is women to deliver. I think women have taken the mic. I think it's a seismic shift. Welcome to another episode of Bite Back with Abby Sharp, where I dismantle die culture rules, call out the charlatans spinning the pseudoscience and help you achieve food freedom for good. Today we're diving into a conversation that sits right at the intersection of sex, science, power, and culture. Basically, my favorite place to be.

Starting point is 00:00:42 In 1998, Viagra was approved and quickly became one of the most recognizable drugs in modern history. A signal that men's sexual function was a need to be prioritized. But then it took another 17 years and a ton of regulatory hurdles, controversy, and intense public screen. for the FDA to approve a pink pill, aka Adi, for women's low sexual desire. The new documentary, The Pink Pill, Sex Drugs and Who Has Control, dives into the struggle that women have faced for sexual autonomy and the bigger cultural questions underneath it all. And I'm so excited to be joined by executive producer and founder of catalyst Julie Bristow,

Starting point is 00:01:26 along with the founder of Sprout Pharmaceuticals who brought Adi to the market, Cindy Eckert. This is a story about more than just one long overdue medication. It is a story about who gets taken seriously in medicine. Who absorbs risks, who benefits, whose needs matters, and what women's sexual autonomy actually looks like. Now, before we get into it, I would love if you would just take a quick moment to subscribe to this podcast wherever you're listening. And leave me a little five-star review and a comment if you're loving what you're hearing. Also a reminder that my best-selling book, The Hunger Crush and Combow Method, is now on sale online and in stores in hardcover, digital e-book, and audiobook versions if you like the podcast vibe. So if you're finally looking to meet your wellness goals without restriction or denial, I would really, really love it if you would check out the links in the show notes where you can order yours today.

Starting point is 00:02:23 All right, friends, let's get into it. Hello, Cindy. Hello, Julie. Thank you so much for taking the time to Chad here. I'm a big fan of everything you're doing to carry these very important conversations around women's health and wellness. So thank you. Thank you. Thanks for having us. Cindy, I want to just kind of set the stage here for a moment about Addie, which you kind of brought over the finish line as the first FDA approved treatment for women's low sexual desire. And it's often described as kind of women's viagra, but it's actually a very different role. Can you just kind of of explain top level how it works. Yes. So we are brain flow, not blood flow, in the simplest term. This is desire. This is arousal. So I think that's the starting point of the conversation is that we really do turn on in the brain. Oh, that is a really great way to summarize that. And, you know, when we think about the timelines of the blue versus pink pill, Viagra was approved in like six months. And then

Starting point is 00:03:29 you had to fight to get Adi approved for years, almost two decades later. So it's hard not to notice the difference in urgency here. How do you interpret that gap? Like, is this science, is this cultural discomfort around female sexuality, is regulatory caution? Like, what is it? Science always had the answer. We just had to get out of our own way culturally.

Starting point is 00:03:51 I think the cultural narrative for so long has been that, you know, pleasure is right for men. It is theirs to receive. And pleasure is women's to deliver. And I think that's really what this turned on its head. And we had to wrestle with culturally because the narrative had never been there that was quite clear that women have a right to desire. And they do desire. Of course. Yeah. I remember reading an interview where you talked about when Addy first came out like 10 years ago and the headlines were saying, female Viagra, isn't that just jewelry? Basically suggesting that like unlike men with. erectile dysfunction, women wanting to have sex is just a choice that can be bought off by like shiny little things. Yeah. How do you think the conversation, you know, is changing as it pertains to

Starting point is 00:04:45 women's sexual needs and health? I think women have taken the mic. I think it's a seismic shift in terms of how women are not accepting headlines like that, not accepting being dismissed with something that they're struggling in, whether they're in perimenopause or they're in. menopause, they're becoming real advocates. And I think they're demanding being seen on the basis of their biology. Because what happens with so, so commonly in women's health, is that we review everything on the basis of women's emotion, which gives us extraordinary permission to dismiss them, to tell them, just relax, you're stressed, you're this. And actually, we can have that conversation. it's a good one, but you're going to start with my biology.

Starting point is 00:05:35 Yeah, yeah. Now, Julie, I want to hear from you. Adi's not necessarily brand new. It's been approved now for a decade. What made this story feel urgent in this particular cultural moment that we are in right now? Well, I mean, the way this sort of came together is that my producing partner in the U.S. was she was investigating what in this moment in which perimenopause and menopause are finally becoming a conversation that women are having more and everybody's having more. We were trying

Starting point is 00:06:07 to find a way into this story that we thought would be really interesting for viewers to watch. And that's the way Cindy came into the conversation. And I think for viewers, it's really interesting to have a central character like Cindy with a struggle like Cindy's, a sort of David and Goliath's story that you can follow along that when the director puts the story together, you see that the microcosm of Cindy's story, although it's a significant and large story, but the microcosm really shows the macro in the story about women's health, women's sexual health, but also women's desire. But women's health care in general and how so many things are treated differently.

Starting point is 00:06:53 And we really felt that this story, starting with Cindy and her, you know, kind of gargantuan fight that she has to get this to market was really illustrative of the challenges for women in the health care system. Oh, 100%. And I want to kind of go back to the specifics of Addie Cindy, because as of right now, correct me if I'm wrong, but it is approved for women dealing with hypo. active sexual desire disorder, or HSDD. And I'm not a doctor, so drugs are well at the scope of my practice. But there has been some pushback on HDHSDD as a diagnosis with some critics

Starting point is 00:07:48 suggesting that it may pathologize kind of normal variation in desire or contextual issues that can impact desire like chronic stress or unequal division of labor at the home or body image pressure, relationship dissatisfaction, the postpartum shifts, hair menopause, even economic strain. So I'm curious, Cindy, speaking to women who have struggled with low desire. How do we navigate the tension between validating a biological or physiological component of low desire, while also acknowledging that in a lot of cases, context still does matter? I think it's said so well in the film, actually, by Sue Goldstein, who illustrates that in that moment at the FDA, a year were almost like two camps. You either believed that women deserved something to address the

Starting point is 00:08:36 biological basis of this, something that, for what it's worth, has been medically characterized since 1977, or you didn't. And I think what was so fascinating to me was if you don't, kind of on what basis in the face of evidence, right? So the beauty is, if we're in this dialogue, about women's desire, you never have to take anything if you don't want. But what would it be? And what I think the film so powerfully examines is what is it that would have us stand in the way of somebody else having access to that thing? And I think that's the glaring, real disparity, right? When it comes to women's health, like what gives us permission to decide on behalf of other women what they can or can't do or what is the right thing for them to do?

Starting point is 00:09:26 I'm alarmed always that when we have science and we don't lead with it, we don't give the best care to anybody. And it's if you just flipped it for a second and thought about, well, let's talk about men's sexual health because you mentioned the blue pill earlier. Is there, have we ever had the same debate over with men? Well, are they just stressed? Is it just economic issues? Is there a relationship struggle? Is it? And, you know, you get into really dangerous territory if people like insurers are weighing in on that to say, well, just have her do this lifestyle modification and don't give her any access to the medication that's been proven, safe and effective.

Starting point is 00:10:14 So that's the real, that's the real tension for all of us, I think, to hold up the mirror and examine in terms of our own point of view. Yeah, you said that so, so well. And the fact that, you know, that we don't have an equitable view of, you know, what's important for women's health versus men's health. So I loved how you brought that up. And it actually kind of brings me back to this concept of control because the documentary is titled sex, drugs, and who has control. Do you see access to Addie as shifting power towards women or, you know, is power in the space always going to be layered between patients and male partners and medicine and industry and everybody? My fundamental point of view is you should have all the power in the decisions that you make, given all the information and the facts. And it's ultimately up to you with a health care provider for anything that is a prescription medication.

Starting point is 00:11:14 But nobody can gatekeep that decision from you, ultimately being fully informed in you having for yourself. Yeah, absolutely. And from both of your perspectives, you know, what does true sexual autonomy for women look like? Oof, that's a big question. I know. That's overending, so give it to me. True sexual autonomy. Wow. I mean, I think it's just off what Cindy has been saying is I think the ability to decide for yourself what it is that you want. and to be able to ask for it and receive it. My basic point of view is you can't go through a sexual revolution and end at reproduction. You've got to see it all the way through pleasure and pleasure you should own in your life,

Starting point is 00:12:06 whether it's in the bedroom, it's at work, it's in a relationship. I think it is transcendent of what we're talking about here. But really, this empowerment is about owning your right to the things that you are worth. That is a really powerful place, too. And I love that. Thank you so much both for your work in the women's health space and for giving a platform to have these very, very important conversations. Cindy, I am so excited to hear what amazing women's health initiatives you have in the works as well.

Starting point is 00:12:37 There's lots I hear going on. And then, Julie, again, looking forward to seeing more important women's conversations about women's health through Catalyst. So thank you both for joining me. Right. Thank you, Abby. Oh, you know, as we were having this conversation, I kept thinking about the similarities that we have seen with conversations around obesity and medications like Ozmpic. You know, for decades, people in larger bodies were simply told that their weight was simply a matter of willpower. Eat less, move more, try harder.

Starting point is 00:13:15 And if you're struggling, it is all just some kind of personal failure. You know, when Ozepic came on the scene, the conversations around obesity were finally able to shift from a being simply a personal failure or laziness to a chronic multifactorial disease worthy of effective medical supports, really no different than what we have access to for other chronic diseases like diabetes. And that recognition was so, so powerful. Because once something is acknowledged as having at least some biological, or genetic origins, it stops being framed purely as a moral flaw. But here's the nuance that we absolutely cannot ignore. Treating obesity as we do other chronic diseases, aka with quality pharmacological solutions,

Starting point is 00:14:07 doesn't mean we stop fighting weight stigma. It doesn't mean that we ignore food deserts. It doesn't mean that we abandon conversations about body image, mental health or systemic inequality. You know, medical treatment needs to work alongside systemic change. And I think that is where this conversation about sexual desire lives too. You know, for years, women with low sexual desire were simply told, oh, it's normal. You know, you're just stressed. Go on a date night. Buy lingerie. Like, work on yourself. Which, let's be honest, is literally just another version of try harder. So when the medication, like Addy, enters the picture,

Starting point is 00:14:48 it can feel enormously validating. It says this isn't just a personality flaw. This isn't just about effort. Biology may be part of your story as well, and that is so key. But again, this is where the nuance comes in. Because acknowledging a biological component to low sexual desire doesn't mean we can just ignore the cultural one. Like if a woman is exhausted from carrying the mental load at home,

Starting point is 00:15:14 if she feels surveilled by diet culture and disconnect, from her body, or if she's navigating burnout or inequality, postpartum changes, paramenopause, we need to work on that too. No pill can redistribute labor or undue shame or single-handedly fix a culture that has policed women's bodies for centuries. So maybe the most mature way to hold this conversation is not some kind of either or. It's not, is this empowerment or is this capitalism. But rather, can medical options be empowering for some women while we simultaneously fight for deeper systemic shifts? Are women choosing these medical options freely for them, for their needs to be met? Or if they're simply feeling pressure to use it to meet somebody

Starting point is 00:16:06 else's expectations? So the idea of who has control here is a lot bigger than just this one drug. You know, and this is a theme that comes up over and over again in the work that I've done here because it is about bodily autonomy in every single sense, you know, with food, our weight, sex, pleasure, and so much more. And this is a conversation that I know we're going to continue to have here on Byteback in a variety of different contexts. So if you've enjoyed this episode, I would really love it if you would subscribe to the podcast, leave me a little review in a comment because it really does make a big difference. And don't forget to check out the links in the bio for where you can get my best-selling book, The Hunger Crushing Combo Method, and where you can watch The Pink Pill, Sex, Rugs, and Who Has Control.

Starting point is 00:16:54 Signing off with Science and Sass, I'm Abby Sharp. Thanks for listening.

Bite Back with Abbey Sharp - The PINK PILL for Women's Sexual Desire - Why it Took 10x Longer for Women's Addyi vs Men's Viagara with Cindy Eckert & Julie Bristow

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