Bite Back with Abbey Sharp - Why You “Ruin Your Diet” Every Holiday (PS: It’s Not Willpower) with Jenn Trepeck
Episode Date: November 18, 2025Here’s a run down of what we discussed in today’s episode:IntroductionWhy Willpower Isn’t the Key to Behavior ChangeWillpower as a Muscle (or Phone Battery)How the Holidays Drain Our Willpower F...asterWhat the Parole Judge Study Teaches Us About Decision FatigueWhy Willpower Works Better Before Temptation HitsUsing Upstream Willpower: What It Actually MeansHoliday Tactics That Don’t Depend on WillpowerBuilding Systems Now to Avoid December BurnoutSetting Up Habits That Make January EasierEnding the Annual “Start Strong, Fall Off” CycleA Kinder Approach to Holiday Eating Check in with today’s amazing guest: Jenn TrepeckWebsite: asaladwithasideoffries.comPodcast: A Salad With a Side of FriesInstagram: @jenntrepeckBook: Uncomplicating WellnessDisclaimer: The content in this episode is for educational and entertainment purposes only and is never a substitute for medical advice. If you’re struggling with with your mental or physical health, please work one on one with a health care provider.If you have heard yourself in our discussion today, and are looking for support, contact the free NEDIC helpline at 1-866-NEDIC-20 or go to eatingdisorderhope.com. Reach Your Weight & Health Goals - Without Dieting! Pre-Order The Hunger Crushing Combo Method, Abbey’s revolutionary additive approach to eating well to boost satiety, stabilize blood sugars, reduce the risk of disease, improve your relationship with food by providing the best nutrient bang for your caloric buck. With over 400 research citations, cheat sheets, evidence based actionable tips, meal plans and adaptable recipes, the Hunger Crushing Combo Method is the only nutrition bible you’ll ever need. Pre-Order today and submit your proof of purchase to get a FREE HCC Holiday Survival Guide here.Where to Purchase:AmazonB&N Amazon Kindle Apple Books Google PlayKobo Apple Books (Audio) Audible More information and retailers here: abbeyskitchen.com/hunger-crushing-combo 🥤 Check out my 2-in-1 Plant Based Probiotic Protein Powder, neue theory at www.neuetheory.com or @neuetheory and use my promo code BITEBACK20 to get 20% off your order! Don’t forget to Please subscribe on Apple, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts and leave us a review! It really helps us out. ✉️ SUBSCRIBE TO MY NEWSLETTERS ⤵️Neue Theory newsletterAbbey's Kitchen newsletter 🥞 FREE HUNGER CRUSHING COMBO™ E-BOOK! 💪🏼 FREE PROTEIN 101 E-BOOK! 📱 Follow me! Instagram: @abbeyskitchenTikTok: @abbeyskitchenYouTube: @AbbeysKitchen My blog, Abbey’s Kitchen www.abbeyskitchen.comMy book, The Mindful Glow Cookbook affiliate link: https://amzn.to/3NoHtvf If you liked this podcast, please like, follow, and leave a review with your thoughts and let me know who you want me to discuss next!
Transcript
Discussion (0)
Those who use willpower most effectively.
Use the willpower to create the habits and the systems and the routines.
Welcome to another episode of Bite Back with Abby Sharp, where I dismantle Diet Culture Rules,
call out the charlatans spinning the pseudoscience, and help you achieve food freedom for good.
today we're diving into a topic that hits especially close to home during the holiday season upon us
and that is diet willpower if you've been trapped in diet culture for most of your adult life
you surely know the binge restrict cycle of the holiday party circuit basically you starve yourself
all day leading up to the festivities only to dive head first into the all you can eat cheese buffet
the moment you get a first whiff of the aged perm.
Feeling defeated, you berate yourself for your lack of willpower,
succumb to your negative self-reproach, and say,
fuck it, I'm going to go hard on my diet in January.
Rinse and repeat.
What if we went into this holiday season with a wildly different approach?
One without the binge-restrict cycle, the self-loathing,
and the dependence on so-called willpower that a starved body and brain realistically can never have.
Joining me today to unpack this is the host of the podcast, Salad with a Side of Fries,
and author of the upcoming book Uncomplicating Wellness, Jen Trepec.
Today, Jen and I will discuss why lack of willpower isn't a moral failure,
how the holidays dry up our willpower bucket remarkably quickly,
how to set ourselves up for success without our reliance on willpower, and how to reframe
failures when we do inevitably overeat. Also a quick reminder that my book, the hunger
crushing combo method, which echoes a lot of the themes that we're going to discuss today,
is now available for pre-order in the link below. Honestly, folks, pre-orders are super, super
important to us authors. They play a huge role in the success of the book, so I would love
if you would check out the descriptions to learn more.
And right now, you'll get a free Hunger Crush and Combow Holiday Survival eBook if you
pre-order today.
So definitely check out the description to learn how you can redeem.
All right, friends, let's get into it.
All right.
Hi, Jen.
Thank you so much.
It's so exciting to chat with you.
I feel like this is such a critical conversation all year around, but especially as we
head into the holiday.
So thank you for joining me.
Thank you for having me. I'm super excited to be here. Now, I kind of wanted to start with some basics here because, you know, so often we, you know, when people kind of quote unquote cheat or quote unquote mess up on their diet or even just have a hard time getting started making healthier habits, we tend to blame our lack of discipline. We tend to think, oh, if I just had more willpower, then I'd be able to lose weight. If only I had more willpower, I'd be able to stop after eating one cookie instead of eating.
the whole sleeve. Why is this not a helpful way to frame behavior change? Okay. So, so many ways to go
with this. But fundamentally, one piece is that we misunderstand what willpower actually is.
The other side of that is even our behavior is biochemical. Even willpower is biochemical.
And we take this on as some sort of moral failing. And it's just simply not. But in order for us to
really understand and, sorry for the pun, but digest that it's not a moral failure.
We have to understand all of those other pieces of the biochemistry because you're not failing.
You know, even when we have those moments, like so much of this behavior is a direct
reflection of other choices. I also, I used to describe it as feeling like I was
climbing Mount Everest naked and barefoot, white knuckling it, and everyone around me,
is like, climb, climb, what's wrong with you? Why aren't you climbing? And you're like, are you
kidding? You know, it's so frustrating when we feel that way. And when I learned some of this,
it was like, oh, like a weight was lifted. I'm not broken. In fact, my body is doing exactly
what we would expect it to do if we truly understand. So oftentimes that feeling of going off the
rails or eating the whole sleeve of cookies is not even willpower, but a direct connection
to restriction, to under eating, typically earlier in the day, you know, but really living in
this place of extremes, expecting perfection, and then having those moments where there's that
temptation and feeling like we can't hold a candle to that temptation. Yeah. And I'm going to talk more
about the under eating piece in a moment.
But yeah, I love in your book, you, you describe willpower as being like a muscle
or like a phone battery.
Can you kind of explain what you mean by that?
Absolutely.
So just like our phone battery, it depletes and needs to be recharged.
Just like a muscle, it can fatigue.
And we need to strengthen and build that muscle.
Or sometimes I even use the analogy of like a refillable cup of water.
there are sort of ideas of understanding what drains from that cup, what drains the battery,
what recharges it. And even are there things that we could do like a muscle that
increase the size of the muscle or increase the size of the cup or the overall battery life
in our daily lives? And so, well, I guess before we get to what replenishes it, let's talk about
what deplete it. Because most of the time, we misunderstand, like I said before, what willpower
actually is. So willpower is simply self-discipline. So any time we are using discipline,
it's drinking from that willpower cup. Anytime we are making any kind of decision, it's drinking
from that willpower cup. So if we think about what happens in a normal day, we wake up in the
morning, we're making a decision about, am I getting out of bed or am I snoozing? We're making a
decision of what am I wearing that day? Maybe that takes 20 decisions to get to what am I wearing that
day? Then what am I eating for breakfast? Am I eating breakfast? If I have to commute somewhere,
which direction am I going? And then there are even the choices that we don't realize we're making.
Like if you drive past a Starbucks or a Dunkin' Donuts and you don't stop, it is still your brain
clocking that that's there and you're not stopping. So most of the time, then we get to even things in our day
that have real consequences to the choices, right?
Things that really matter in life.
Right.
What's happening with our kids, making sure they're safe.
What are we doing all day?
Is everybody covered?
Our work decisions.
Then we get to the end of the day.
It's no wonder that it feels like there is a magnet between you and that Dunkin' Donuts on
your way home.
Totally.
You know, so it stands to reason that, of course, things are easier earlier in the day
than later.
after that cup is depleted after that battery is drained.
Yeah, yeah.
And, you know, I think it's very important to make clear that, like, we do need some, quote, quote,
willpower.
It's not like we're doing away with all willpower because willpower can act as this, like,
really important spark to take that first uncomfortable step towards something that you want.
And, you know, it's critical for handling emergencies, for example, for building self-efficacy.
If we had no willpower to, like, respond in an emergency, we wouldn't be here or our children
wouldn't be safe, you know? A thousand percent. But of course, like you said, it fuels,
it becomes problematic when it fuels that shame or it's relied on for every decision or it's
used to mask bigger issues. And, you know, we're coming to the holidays here when there's so many
of these external factors that you're kind of speaking to that can lead to this willpower cup
getting depleted more quickly between the family time with a lot of people and the shopping and the
cooking and the travel and the financial strain, then the decision fatigue, you know, even thinking
about what you're going to wear to each party can feel overwhelming. And then, of course,
after all that, you've got these endless trays of treats and booze and the poor sleep. And, you know,
this is just not a supportive environment for us to be able to use willpower in a non-problematic way.
And now I want to kind of speak to some of those things because if we're
thinking about a supportive environment or not so supportive environment. As you said earlier,
under eating, always going to be a setup for willpower depletion. And the reason is, I just want to
expand on that a second, our willpower is tied to our blood sugar. So if we do not have glucose
or blood sugar, we will not have willpower. Now here's the irony. So my specialty area is weight
management and the irony of it all is that old adage of eat less move more well eating less
drops our blood sugar drops our willpower then we feel like something's wrong with us when the tray
of charcutory and cheese and crackers and cookies and all the things is it like has a voice and it's
screaming at us of course to quiet that voice we have to raise our blood sugar we have to eat
Yeah, yeah. And we see this so often, you know, during the holidays where folks try to kind of quote unquote save up their calories. Oh, yes. You know, knowing they're going to probably have a few glasses of wine. So they're not going to like, you know, they're going to skip lunch and they arrive at this party ravenous. And obviously, like you said, you can't make the best decision when your brain is deprived of fuel. Totally. And in the book, you make this really cool, interesting parallel to the judge's study on parole. Can you
talk about that study because it's so fascinating to me and I think it really does help us visualize
this in in a different way. Absolutely. So it's the importance. It's a study that was really on
understanding how important blood sugar is in our decision making. So the idea fundamentally
is that if we are in a place of low blood sugar, our body experiences that as danger in moments of danger
In an effort to find safety, the body says, what feels safe?
What feels like mind normal?
What can maintain status quo?
Maintaining status quo is not taking risks.
Maintaining status quo is not doing something differently, likely reverting back to old
behaviors and old habits.
So in the study, they looked at it was prisoners who were up for parole.
And essentially, based on the time of day, played a major impact and whether or not they were granted parole.
So those who were granted parole most were those who appeared in the morning and right after lunch when the judge's blood sugar wasn't depleted.
Those who appeared just before lunch or later in the day received parole way less of the time regardless of what the
crime was. So if we think of, and the reason being there, right, is that naturally we're not
willing to take the risk of someone being back out into society, potentially doing whatever it was
again. We're looking for safety, maintaining status quo. And in those scenarios, maintaining
status quo is that prisoner behind bars. Staying. Yeah, exactly. Oh, it's so interesting.
So we take that to ourselves. Of course, when our blood sugar is low, the cook
cookies, chips, baked goods, pasta, all the things that are those comfort foods, are infinitely more
appealing and infinitely more difficult to turn down or have a new experience at this holiday
party compared to what we've ever done before. Because our body is literally fighting for that
old scenario. Yeah, I always think of that Snickers commercial, like, you're not you when you're
hungry, you know? Like, right? Like, my husband can obviously attest to that about me. But of course, like,
When we're running on fumes, low blood, blood sugar, stress, which means increased cortisol, exhaustion, hangary.
We're just too under resource to make more mindful decisions.
Exactly.
And one of my favorite reframes that you offer in the book is that willpower is best used upstream, not in the moment of temptation or when you're already super depleted.
And this makes total sense to me.
Can you explain what you mean by that?
Yes.
So what we see in all the research is that those who use willpower most effectively, use the
willpower to create the habits and the systems and the routines. So it does require a little bit
of work up front, right? Going upstream for a period of time using that willpower to create
the habits, such that over time those habits become much more automatic and therefore don't require
any willpower or any decision making and then we get to the party and we still have a cup of
willpower that we can use. The other thing is using that willpower upstream to put in place
in our daily lives throughout the day, small things that recharge that battery, that refill that
cup. So that again, when we enter that situation later in the day where we're looking to have that
extra support, it's there. Rather than us sort of dumping this cup over and being like,
there's nothing there.
Nothing left. Yeah. Give us some practical examples during the holidays. Like what are
some tactics to employ willpower upstream as we're getting into this, you know, festive
holiday party season. Yeah. So one of the things, even what you talked about before of how we had this
idea of saving up our calories for the party, let's not. Do now, don't do that. Never works. Right.
Let's make sure. Exactly. Let's make sure that we're fueling well throughout the day. Let's put that
morning on autopilot. So what can you do now to put those mornings on autopilot? Maybe it's deciding what
we're wearing the night before or planning it all out on a Sunday or something so that during the week,
it doesn't require that brain power.
One of my other favorite things is making sure that we have movement in every day.
Movement and exercise actually increases our willpower for a variety of reasons.
So building that into our day.
Even just recognizing that we want to eat and not show up to that party ravenous influences it.
Accountability improves our willpower, refills that cup.
So what does the accountability look like for you? By the way, accountability is not the food police.
Yeah. I know so often that's what we have in our heads because, you know, we've got a long history.
Yeah. That's what all the diets have taught us to. You know, like show up to Weight Watchers for accountability reasons, right? Like, totally. Weighing in together. Right. So accountability might look like saying to a friend, remind me to drink water after each drink. I'm giving you permission to,
say that to me. It might look like checking in with a friend who's not at the party to text
them about how it's going. I had a client recently at a holiday event where we had a whole plan.
You know, he had done, I do this paper plate exercise with my clients. I actually have it as a
bonus episode on my podcast, salad with a side of fries, a nutrition nugget paper plate exercise
that you can do before any holiday. I think I typically.
do it before Thanksgiving, but so we did this for this holiday. He had a plan and he got there
and the way the food was set up, it was a buffet instead of things being on the table and like
passing it around. And he turned to his wife and started to say something and she said,
how about I make your plate? And she went up to the buffet for him and put the plate together
and brought it back to him. So using those external resources dramatically increased his will
power. Yeah. One of my favorites that increases willpower is generosity. And this one's really
interesting. So it kind of goes back to that same thing with the judges and parole. So if we are
in danger and our body is looking to maintain status quo and, you know, fighting fear, that is all
very me focused, right? We are the center of that. Inherently in generosity is making somebody else
the focus. And if when we are able to make somebody else the focus, it is sending signals to the
body of safety if we are able to focus on someone or something else. So could you during the holiday
season be sure that you're holding the door for the person behind you, maybe buy somebody else's
coffee that day or just before you head to that party? Could we make the focus of that party
experiencing all the people over the food? Right. And making sure.
just little things to up the ante so that you have the willpower for that moment.
And by the way, I also think part of that is the plan and the plan that is for reality,
not the plan that is for some textbook perfect moment that doesn't even actually ever exist.
Totally.
So include the treats that define the holiday for you.
If it's that gingerbread cookie, include the gingerbread.
cookie in the plan.
100% because the more you say, okay, I'm not having any treats in the holidays, that's
just not realistic.
And that's, you know, on my platform, we talk a lot about my framework, the hunger
crushing combo.
And that is this idea that we're going to dress up those naked carbs by combining and
enjoying those foods, not cutting out.
We have to have this additive mindset so that we're not getting to the scarcity mentality.
that, of course, is going to dry up that willpower cup.
You know, it's like you just can't put yourself into a mindset of deprivation and denial
and not expect that your body is not going to rebel.
A thousand percent.
I don't know.
I don't know, but I'm thinking about my own kind of upstream willpower tactics here.
And for me, it's just like, how about learning to say no sometimes?
Like, just you don't need to go to every party if that is.
is going to drain your cup.
And for me, I kind of know what my capacity is for socializing.
And my capacity is for like not getting perfect sleeps.
And so just being mindful about that ahead of time
and just being like, you know what,
I'm just going to decline this offer.
And because I know it's in my best interest
and just for my own self-care.
And now that it's OK.
And being OK with that, you know, I'm done being a people pleaser.
I know.
I think that comes so same.
And I always say I'm a recovery.
covering people pleaser.
Yes.
Same.
It is a constant practice.
Constant.
And the other piece is like also saying yes to going to something also doesn't mean that
we have to be there the whole time.
Correct.
Or that we have to show up right when it starts.
Or go right to the end.
Yes.
And so if you're one of those people were like, that idea is mind boggling to you because
I get it.
Or even like I'm the one we're canceling last minute is mind boggling.
for me.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
You know, reminding yourself that when someone else does that, we're okay with it for the
most part.
Yeah.
Right?
It's more about managing that expectation.
So if we message the host and say, can't wait for tonight, probably going to arrive around
whatever time, they know what to expect.
Yeah.
Or it can't stay long.
And vice versa, can't wait, probably going to have to leave at whatever time.
Yeah.
It's fine.
It's fine.
And I'm all for an Irish goodbye, honestly.
just, I think that's the way to do it at these things.
So much less pressure.
You don't feel like you have to, you're feeling anxious about the leave.
Just like, just go, just go.
Yes, exactly.
And then, and I'd be remiss if I didn't mention just distraction.
So we talked about making the party about the socializing and the people versus the food.
Yeah.
This is also based in science and research.
So you know the old study, it was like the little kids with the marshmallow.
Yes. And it was like, if you don't eat the marshmallow for 10 minutes, we'll give you two marshmallows.
Right. But if you eat the marshmallow now, you're not going to get another one. Right.
The kids who were able to wait out the time period are the ones who distracted themselves.
Yeah. They played with their shoelaces. They counted ceiling tiles. They distracted themselves and paid attention to other things. We can do that too.
And it might mean thinking about that and planning it a little bit and having, you know, an idea of what we're going to do.
You know, maybe it's easier to have something in your hand.
Totally.
You know, well, have a water, a club soda, a seltzer, whatever in your hand.
You know, physically stand further away.
Be sure that you're talking to people.
Whatever it is, you can add those distractions for yourself.
If we just sort of recognize it as a true.
tool in our tool belt to increase that willpower to help us stick to the plan that we create.
Yeah. And for my friends who perhaps are not the most like socially inclined, like plan some
conversations ahead of time. You know, like, you know, if you're worried about being awkward or,
you know, not knowing what to do other than just like be lining it to the buffet, like have a few
key topics that you feel like, okay, I'm going to talk to this person about this and this
person about this. And I feel like that will kind of set you up for success in kind of keeping your
night a little bit busy. And like you said, like a little bit of distraction from from the buffet,
especially if you've already actually eaten and your body is well fueled and you're kind of not
actually physically in need of that sustenance. Exactly. Great topics for this time of year.
First of all, I think travel is 100 percent, you know, going anywhere for the holiday.
who are you celebrating with is an easy one or even are you doing a ton of shopping you know do you
have a long list of gifts to buy yep things that are relevant to most people this time of year great
little talking points exactly
Okay, I want to close up here because obviously, you know, diet culture is always trying to convince us that we need more willpower when ideally we really should be setting up an environment to simply kind of need to rely on it less like we've been talking about and, you know, not relying on it for all the decisions because as we've established, we are going to be in situations sometimes where our willpower cups are just already drained, like the holidays.
Yep. How can people start building systems or habits right now so that we're not white knuckling it through December only to just like go hard in January and then fall off the wagon in February rinse and repeat? Exactly. There are so many things. So I'm going to list a couple and I'm going to say pick one. Pick one. Because I even think that's part of the all or nothing history that many of us have. We try to do.
all of the things, which feels like overwhelming, another job, complicated, stressful,
and then we throw the whole thing out the window, and that's where we're in this on-off,
good, bad, black, white, yo-yo over and over.
So pick one thing, play with it, pick the next thing.
So sleep is an unbelievable tool for replenishing willpower.
This time of year, that's harder.
So maybe we're not picking that.
Right?
One of my favorites is how we start the day.
So is it possible even though we're having some later nights this time of year to wake up at the same time every day to get first morning light to our eyes and eat a nutrient dense meal within an hour to 90 minutes of waking up.
We're deliberately adding these tools in to replenish that willpower throughout the day.
And then you're going to have it.
So it might mean putting this in your calendar as a reminder.
Because again, I hear it all the time.
People will say, well, I just need to.
Well, I just need to do it.
No.
How can we make it easy to do it so that doing it doesn't require more of that willpower
so that doing it doesn't require extra steps or brain capacity?
So is it a reminder in the calendar?
Is it an alarm on your phone?
Is it a post-it on your refrigerator or a post-it on your front door or on your nightstand?
How can you make it easy to do the thing that you want to do?
That, by the way, is part of the magic in behavior change that we don't actually rely on ourselves to make it happen.
We include the environment and make it easy, dare I say,
effortless to remember to do the thing. Have other things remind you so that it's not one more thing
on your to-do list. I am so amazed by all this. I feel like this is going to be so, so helpful
for so many folks listening right now, especially as we head into the holidays, but really all year
around. Like these are skills that if we start to develop them right now, they are going to
kind of be able to get us through all of these different seasons of life.
As, you know, like you said, there will be times when the willpower cup is a little bit lower than others.
So super helpful.
I'm going to be leaving links to your podcast, sell with a side of fries in the show notes,
and also your new book Uncomplicating Wellness.
So thank you so much again for joining me, Jen.
Thank you for having me.
It's such a pleasure.
We could talk forever.
So loved it.
This was such an important conversation for this time of year,
as I feel like a lot of us may be feeling the constant ups and downs of indulging and punishing rinse repeat.
But I wanted to leave you with some actionable strategies that you can employ following a more indulgent holiday meal
to help you stop this cycle in its tracks.
First of all, pause and reframe.
Instead of spiraling into guilt or like a last supper mentality where you think,
oh my god, I blew my diet, I might as well go hog wild, I want you to pause and reframe the experience as this.
I had a meal, those cookies were pretty tasty, and now I'm in control to choose what happens next.
Tomorrow is not a time to pay for my sins. It is another delicious day to make choices that fuel my body, mind, and soul.
Making a vow to yourself not to restrict or punish yourself helps prevent two cookies from becoming the whole tin.
Number two, drink lots and lots of water.
Alcohol, sweets, and fried foods often leave you feeling dehydrated, bloated, and constipated.
So make sure you're upping your hydration the next morning to stop feeling like you're being punished and get yourself into a better baseline groove.
Number three, eat breakfast. Yes, even if you're feeling physically a little icky or emotionally ashamed from how much you ate the day before.
Start with a refreshing breakfast that combines protein, fiber-rich produce, and healthy whole-food fats, not as a punishment, but as an act of self-care to help to stabilize blood sugars, reclaim your natural hunger and satiety cues, and help you start your day with.
a nourishing mindset.
Number four, skip the militant boot camp trying to work off your quote-and-quote indiscretions
and focus on adding some joyful movement into your day.
Movement can help support digestion if you're feeling a little sluggish down there.
It can boost your mood during a post-meal crash, and it helps to stabilize blood sugars
and energy levels.
And finally, the next time another holiday event is on the calendar,
tune into your body's needs with curiosity instead of judgment.
If you feel yourself dipping into that all or nothing kind of thinking about what and how much
you're going to eat, pause and ask yourself what you really need.
Did I restrict too much today and now my appetite is out of control?
Am I tired, stressed, and overstimulated and looking for an emotional pick-me-up?
Sometimes what feels like another craving is really your body asking for calm,
connection or more calories, and just a little non-judgmental check-in can help you get the answers
that you need. Remember, friends, the holidays are all about connection and joy, not food
perfection. And overeating once in a while is a normal human experience, not a crisis.
The most powerful strategy that you have is to normalize it.
acknowledge it happened, care for yourself with kindness, and move forward.
Every choice is another chance to align with how you want to feel.
No waiting until January required.
And again, on that note, thank you again to Jen Trebek for helping me bite back against
diet culture, and I'll be leaving links below to her new book, Uncomplicating Wellness,
and of course to my upcoming title, The Hunger Cushing Combo Method, which is now on pre-sale.
Thank you again so much for your support thus far.
It really does mean so, so much.
Signing off with Science and Sass, I'm Abby Sharp.
Thanks for listening.
