Blue By Ninety - Michigan owns Wisconsin

Episode Date: January 15, 2021

The boys welcome Shane Werner from Wolverine Sports TV to talk the success of Juwan Howard and the Michigan Basketball team, Jim Harbaugh's contract extension and Mike Hart's return to Ann Arbor. Crack a Cold one and enjoy the show.

This is the University of Michigan. Touchdown, Michigan! That's the beat of Michigan ball! And they've got one extra pass. And it goes for the win! The three-pointer by Jordan Poole! Down the sideline! People jump!

Touchdown, Wolverines! Alright, welcome back to Blue by 90. I am Justin, joined by Kaylin and Jack as always. And we have a special guest on with us this week. It is Shane Werner from Wolverine Sports TV and the University of Michigan. Shane, how are you doing today? I'm doing well. I'm excited to talk about the hot Michigan basketball team.

11-0, baby, 11-0. The fighting Jawan Howard's crushing it down here in Ann Arbor. For sure, yeah. It's been quite the ride, man, and this has been like a true saving grace for us as Michigan fans is like, oh, my God. I think I try to like think about like what if this team was, I don't know, seven and seven and four or whatever, even like if they had struggled against some of these big 10 teams or any like even like thinking back to the Oakland game. Like, what if they lose that Oakland game? Like, holy shit you know this is this would have been just a brutal winter after a brutal fall with the football team and like honestly I like I'm on Twitter all the time for Michigan with like on Michigan Twitter quote

unquote and like the Michigan fan base on Twitter would have fucking exploded let's be honest so yeah it wouldn't have been fun yeah i mean i know in that oakland game there was a lot of knee-jerk reactions from people who just wanted to be like oh no this team is bad too um and it's it's surprising that that's really been the only game where it's looked like they were going to lose i mean i guess the penn state game was kind of back and forth there at the end but that that Oakland game seems so long ago that this team that we're seeing right now is almost unrecognizable from that team that struggled to get stops against a pretty mediocre Oakland team. Yeah, mediocre is maybe an understatement, man. Have they won a game yet?

I don't know. I think they're still winning. But it's crazy that that was the toughest game of the year. The worst team they played was the closest that they the game was they played his top 25 guys and blowing them out you know toledo toledo though has not lost since michigan beat them i think i just retweeted somebody uh i think it was dylan burkhart on twitter that said it toledo they so what's funny is what he said was they you know michigan lost the game with NC State,

which was a great, you know, Big Ten ACC challenge game, but they replaced it with Toledo. Well, in Ken Palm, Toledo is actually 58th in Ken Palm. NC State's 66th. And NC State's lost three in a row. Toledo hasn't lost since they played Michigan. So that was actually like you swap out the ACC for the MAAC and it's an upgrade. That's kind of crazy. Yeah, I mean, I think that NC State game kind of felt like losing it was a big loss because it felt like that was going to be the game where Michigan maybe got some national attention since they were undefeated.

And it was like, who have they played? But, I mean, I still don't think Toledo is going to get the respect they maybe deserve as a max school but a lot of these teams that Michigan has beaten even if they're not necessarily ranked are good teams and I think that's what was really impressive even at the start of the year I mean Bowling Green had some guys that were absolutely hooping they look like they belonged in the Big Ten and not in the max so every team Michigan's beaten other than the Oakland team like you said which they struggle with the most has been a good team i mean i think ucf has been flirting with the ap poll right i don't know if they're in right now but i mean that easy for michigan that's a very

good team yeah for sure i think this their michigan strength the schedule is you know come march going to be a really big thing for them uh especially if they keep winning obviously and win those those quality games um but even if they lose a couple like if you're looking at uh you know the rest of the schedule here and it's crazy that we're like saying the rest of the schedule because i feel like this season just started but we're already what halfway through because of the uh you know pretty much halfway through because of the uh at least with the regular season but um i'm not ready for it to be over that's for sure i'm like i want this season to go on as long as possible we need to hold on to this but uh anyways i still think the strength of schedule for michigan will be a big thing for them uh in march to be able to uh just you know continue to to build their resume right now jeff goodman has them as

a one seed so which is crazy like would you have ever thought that michigan 11 games into the season like we were thinking fifth you know fifth uh fifth seed in the in the big 10 tournament yeah not a one seed in the ncaa tournament. Yeah, did not expect this season to go this way at all. It's crazy how this team's playing. Like, they've been together for years. And Mike Smith and Shondy Brown being, like, guys that are just coming in. Hunter Dickinson being brand new guys coming into this team. And they're all performing really well.

It's crazy to see. Yeah, considering our recent history of Michigan sports surprises, this one is definitely the most pleasant. Yeah, I mean, I got asked to put out a hot take to say that Michigan was going to finish in the top four of this Big Ten, and I felt like I was maybe going to look silly with that on the record, but now I look like the smart one. Yeah, this team, I mean, this team is very real to win the Big Ten regular season title. I mean, I think fortunately they only have to play Iowa once, which is going to really help them. But I mean, I think the biggest worry you'd have right now with this team is are they playing too well too early?

And I guess that's a pretty good problem to have if you're Jawan Howard. Yeah, I mean, I don't even like to think about, you know, teams playing too well too early, but we've seen it for Michigan teams. Like now that you brought it up, Shane, I mean, we saw it from the, what, 2018 team. I think even last year they started off super hot and then kind of fell off. I feel like this team's different, but you never know what's going to happen. I mean, that's the crazy thing is, you know, hopefully they're not peaking too soon. But what does scare me is the last two games of the season we got Iowa and Sparty back to back and we know how dangerous Sparty can be at the end of the year so I don't know man I'm trying to enjoy this ride as long

as we can because this team is damn good no I agree I think I think what you have to avoid is when when the first loss does come if it if it does happen you have to avoid a skid you know because right now they're playing with so much confidence that you can't let um and you also can't pretend that you're you're going to go undefeated i mean we can hope for that but like this conference is so loaded there's just going to be one night where maybe your shots aren't falling and that's what it looked like from wisconsin um as good as michigan was defensively but you can't let uh any loss in this conference really derail you and that's got

to be a focus for juwan howard if they do drop you know one of these tough big 10 games fighting a skid and keeping this momentum that they have right now going yeah and i think that the difference from what it looks like to me for this team compared to some teams in the past for michigan that have gone on skids is they don't just rely on the three. They actually barely rely on the three really. Like obviously they use Hunter Dickinson in the post more than they ever have. Even, even junior year text Teske wasn't going for 22 a game. You know, he, he was not even getting, let alone the points,

not even the touches. So the fact that they can go in and out a lot and not just rely on the three i think really helps this team as far as a true skid or or a bad shooting night because if they have a bad shooting night they just get it into hunter dickinson and he goes you know he can go for 30 if he needs to uh and so i think even like they're more dangerous than an Iowa to me, because Iowa to me, if Luca Garza for some reason has a bad night, you know, Jordan Bohannon can't carry them to a hundred points, which is what they need to win because their defense is so bad, you know,

where Michigan's doing it on both sides of the ball and at all, you know, eight, nine deep. Right. So I think the versatility really helps them in terms of any type of the ball and at all you know eight nine deep right so i think the versatility really helps them in terms of any type of the worry of any type of skid uh towards the end or through this big 10 towards the end of the year like into march and anything like that because especially when you get into into march into you know the big 10 tournament ncaa tournament how did you know if they one week, you know, one game in the, you know, first round or something,

they're like, all right, Hunter Dickinson goes for 32 and 11. And then the next night he has like eight and they go for, you know, but they still shoot the three and livers and fronds go for, you know, 17 each. Like, how do you beat that team? Seriously, how do you beat that team? Yeah, I i mean that was kind of my question to juwan howard in the press conference after that game is like if i told you hunter dickinson was going to have two points at halftime do you think michigan is up 17 points um i mean if you would have told me hunter dickinson was going to have two at half i would have thought it was going to be a very bad night for the michigan

wolverines against wisconsin but i mean it showed that as much as they have leaned on Dickinson in some of these games, even when he wasn't on and, you know, Wisconsin was really devoting attention to him on that side of the ball. I mean, he's still getting looks for other guys. It opens up stuff for those shooters on the edge. So, I mean, now he's just garnering so much attention from opposing teams that it's making everybody else better. And that's what you really want from your center. Yeah, and with Dickinson, too. I mean, not only is he a force inside, but if he is, you know, double-teamed, whatever, he doesn't have a good shot.

He's such a good passer that he finds the right guy, and that guy is normally pretty wide open where they're getting good shots. And the fact that you don't have to rely, like you said, Ro, a little bit earlier, you know that you don't have to rely like you said row a little bit earlier you know we don't you don't have to rely on one guy there's five six guys that you can you know one guy's off or two guys are off you can these other guys are going to score and get points and that's what we saw against wisconsin it was nobody i don't know if anybody had over could be wrong here but i don't know if anybody had over 15 or 16 points i mean it was spread pretty pretty even across the board for that team and they still won by fucking 20 some points and they were up by 40 at one point in the second half i mean just absolute insanity could have won by 50 they literally could have won by 50 if they kept a foot on the gas but uh i don't know i can't remember at what minute mark they went in but

it was still five plus minutes left that they put in the scrubs and what i noticed too is wisconsin didn't take out their starters they kept their starters in till literally the buzzer went off which was kind of nuts so uh it really could have been 40 or 50 i also love seeing hunter dickinson as he's gotten more comfortable he's kind of even like stepped out of that direct post spot and taking a couple shots from medium range too and i love seeing him hit some of those little jumpers yeah yeah i mean you can shoot pass and get inside love it i mean i i'm sure you guys have seen like the high school footage i mean he looks comfortable shooting threes he hasn't really done it here but i would think if he starts getting some of these double teams in the post if he does step outside I mean if he can get some confidence in that jumper he's he's going to be unstoppable if he becomes a three-point

shooter as well yeah I think that um I mean I'm looking at our I'm looking at the stats for the season here I mean Hunter's at 17.5 points per game Livers 13.8 Franz 12 12.5 mike smith 9.2 shandy 9.0 eli 8.7 i mean we're within a point for these last three of averaging six guys in double figures and michigan's not like you wouldn't say they're going out to score 90 to 100 every game like uh like iowa is you know so it's just crazy how they distribute the ball to everybody and everybody's you know contributing even though hunter's obviously taking that front seat and scoring the most points because nobody michigan hasn't had a 17 point scorer since i don't even know if trey burke scored that many you know i i really don't so uh he might have been close but it really i, it's pretty incredible when you look at the stats over 11 games, how spread out it is.

You know, Eli is probably one of the most important pieces to the puzzle, and he still is sixth on the scoring. You know, and he's had some really good games where he scored 15, 16 points and lit it up from three. I mean, is it time to start talking about Juwan Howard, lifetime deal? Are we at that point yet? A year and a half in? Don't jinx us with that talk because we were talking about that three years ago with Jim Harbaugh, and look where we are with that. We were, and they were in pretty similar spots a year and a half in.

I can't remember if it was Brandon Brown or somebody put that up on Twitter, but you look at a year and a half in for Harbaugh and for Juwan Howard. I mean, they're kind of neck and neck. I mean, a long season left for Juwan, but Harbaugh had him pretty damn close to a Big Ten title and a college football playoff berth at the end of that 2016 season. I will say that i was definitely a little skeptical when michigan hired juwan howard i i mean i think those shoes were just so big to fill when when beeline left and i can't believe that a year and a half later i'm saying that michigan basketball looks like they're in a better place than they were when john beeline was the coach which i don't think anyone

could say that that they thought that was going to happen. But, I mean, as excited as I am about this season, they're bringing in the number one recruiting class. I mean, like, there's just so much to be excited about, even if this season, you know, maybe doesn't end up in a Final Four like it seems like they could do right now. I mean, there's still so much to be excited about moving forward, and I think that's what's given me hope watching this team, is it's like, we're this good right right now and we're bringing in this much talent.

It's just I mean, you have to applaud Juwan for what he's done in 18 months already. Yeah, program's heading in the right direction, that's for sure. I'll be pumped to see Musa and Caleb Houston. And I mean, if Hunter Dickinson is still there, we have some giants out on that floor. And Musa and Caleb can both can both shoot it from range, too. This is a scary lineup, man. That's a scary lineup to see. It's like we'll have so many guys I don't even know who to put on the floor at one time.

Right. He will probably have that problem, imagine at times like i know you know uh coach k and coach cal and even iso i think is that iso is really struggling with that this year he's got a bunch of really really talented guys and he hasn't found this rhythm with this eight man rotation he goes like nine ten deep sometimes and then some of his starting five, like sit the bench for seven, eight minutes at a time. I hope that Juwan Howard kind of figures that out. But I feel like Tom Izzo is going through that right now. And they're really struggling because he can't find a true five,

five guys to step up and be those guys, you know? So he keeps cycling through, but then guys can't get in a rhythm because you don't give them the chance and it's like it's this whole circle that you go through and i could i mean i don't know how how juan howard will handle that next year because he's handled it pretty well this year with the talent that he has now like even shawny brown like shawny brown for the majority of other teams in the power five would be a starter right and brandon johns would start at a lot of places as well you know so it's like i think that he he's handling it well now but what add two more five stars into the mix damn that's a tough that's really tough

for him to handle right it's a good problem to have yeah i mean think about how many how many teams even in the big 10 would have zeb jack and Brandon Johns Jr. like playing significant minutes for them and Zeb Jackson's coming in with guys that are preferred walk-ons at the end of the game I mean like that says that says a lot about about the talent on this on this roster and I thought Brandon Johns like had a shot to be a starter this year because I mean that was before we knew if Shandy was playing but like even when he has come in like not in a rhythm he still played pretty well and given the minutes um so I mean they go like 10 11 deep on this team and I think that that is going to pay off when you get in to March and you know we haven't seen Hunter Dickinson get in foul trouble yet which has been very impressive from a freshman but I, there's going to be a game where one of these guys gets

in foul trouble, a couple of them maybe. You know, you play an Iowa team that wants to really get in the post. But I don't think depth is a problem for Michigan. And, honestly, the opposite is a problem. They might have too many guys. But it doesn't seem to have discouraged any of them. And I think that's what's really positive and says a lot about Juwan is, you know, a lot of teams' guys aren't getting minutes. They want to put their head down, be disappointed about it. But anytime any of these

guys get in, they look like they're all in. And even when they're on the bench, they're cheering for everybody else. So this just seems to be a fun group that really wants to see each other succeed. So I want to ask you guys this. So they're 11-0 right now. There's 13 games left in the Big Ten, right, in their regular season. So what's a successful record? Like, we have to imagine they're going to lose some games, right? You know, I think there was some chem-pom stats that, like, at 20-4, I think is their most likely ending. So 20-4, that's probably going to win the Big Ten.

I have to imagine, unless Iowa just goes undefeated or plays really well from now on. But I wanted to see what's exceeding those expectations uh or the expectations at 11 and 0 and what would be what would you be like uh you know what would you say at the end of their 24 game uh regular season are you like damn they had that hot start but they cooled off and now they're not hot going into march right i think for me man if they go 20-4, like anything from four losses to going undefeated, I'll be ecstatic. I mean, you can't expect to beat Sparty twice in a season. Iowa's a tough team. They've still got Wisconsin again at Wisconsin, and they've still got to play Illinois. I mean, those could be four obvious losses right there.

So, I mean, honestly, they could go 500 the remainder of their games. They're still winning, what, 20 games? Or no, 18 and – they'd be going 18 and 7. But that still gets you in the Big Ten tournament. I mean, you're still going to make the NCAA tournament at that point. That's the thing I love about basketball. You don't have to go undefeated or have one or two losses to make the make the playoffs and um so for me they don't really have to do crazy well for the remainder of the season but they do 20 if they go 20 and 4 that'll be fucking awesome yeah definitely if they win 20

games i would throw a freaking party but i would even say like 19 wins i mean that's still on the same kind of level too i mean 1920 wins 19-20 wins is what I would expect, and if that's what they meant, then I would fucking love it. Yeah, I think 20 games. I think Michigan got pretty lucky with the draw that they got in this Big Ten Conference. I mean, Illinois once and Iowa once. Those seem like the teams that would probably cause the most problems

for Michigan with the big men that they have. so yeah I would have I would agree with you guys I think 20 wins would very very confidently put them in the one and two line um come tournament time and I think that's where they need to be if they're going to have a real shot at making the final four just what we've seen with how good so many of these teams are across college basketball, you could run into a really, really tough team if you end up with a 4 or 5 seed come March. So I think Michigan really needs to try and hit that 20 win mark if they want to put themselves in position to make a run for the title, both in the Big Ten and nationally. me you know i this is gonna sound dumb and and anti-michigan but i kind of want them to lose oh like soonish so we can get that monkey off the back right and you don't have to have the undefeated talk and blah blah blah and the target's always going to be on your back if you're at you know in first place in the in the big 10 but there's everyone's not coming out every single night to try and give you

your first loss right and so i i think like obviously i'm rooting for them to win every game but like if it's gonna happen i want it to happen now or soonish um i actually in my opinion think that it might happen on saturday against min. They play unbelievable at home. The barn is the weirdest place to play in the Big Ten. It's like the weird court. They are, you know, above the floor there. Like, I don't know. It could be a little bit of a trap game, I think,

just because Michigan's playing so well. But I don't know. What do you guys think about that? Would you want to, like, I don't know. What do you guys think about that? Would you want to like, I don't know, would you rather lose a couple games to, let's say, Minnesota or Illinois in the next couple weeks or something like that so that they can get that off their back and then move into, you know, figure out some issues that they have and move into, you know, February here and keep rolling and so they still can have a an upward trajectory going into march well i'm i'm with you i like i would i would like to see

them lose and see how they respond it's really easy for a team to be excited and play really well together when when you haven't lost a game yet but it's you know first of all you learn a lot more from your losses than you do your wins and i want to see how this team responds to losing i mean playing tough teams i mean the big 10s loaded like you said in minnesota minnesota plays really well at home they play like shit on the road and that's why michigan beat them so handily but i'm curious to see how they do against the minnesota team on the road i mean that could be a tough game could be a loss but like i said you learn a lot more from losses than you do wins. And I'd rather have them lose during the season than in the Big Ten tournament where they can learn a little bit more and improve on whatever they need to improve

on. Man, I like 100% disagree. I like I want them to keep winning. I think there's something to be said for like momentum. Right. And like you can keep winning and that can you can almost like will yourself to win games that you shouldn't win and so like if they continue to win who knows where they could go next and i and i do agree on the one hand where it's like yeah you do learn from your losses and you can identify weaknesses but like when you just keep winning like it's almost it can almost be like magic right and you And you just, special things can happen. So I want to see him keep winning. I kind of agree with that because, you know, if this team was just barely pulling out wins,

that would be one thing. But the fact that they're beating the doors off teams and then coming out and playing even better the next night, that's what's really impressive to me. Because, yeah, it's easy when you blow somebody out, you just say, we're going to do that again the next night. That's what's really impressive to me because yeah, it's easy when you blow somebody out, you just say, we're going to do that again the next night, but it seems like they even work from there and are even better in the next game. I mean, when you looked at the scoreboard and saw them up 40 on Wisconsin, I mean, that was unbelievable. I mean, I don't think anyone think that that game was going to go like that, but yeah, I would agree. I think you just keep winning as you are now and assume that you can keep getting better from here because it seems like they keep getting

better even after blowing out, you know, ranked opponents by 20 plus points. Well, you know, to your point there too, the thing I loved most about the game against Wisconsin was when it was the last possession before halftime and Wisconsin's trying to get a shot off, Michigan's up 17. The bench is like holding each other back, literally, in a 17-point lead. Michigan's on defense going absolutely nuts. I think Franz or Shaundi blocked them, and they didn't get the shot off. And then they rushed the court.

That was like the game. That was like they just won on a buzzer beater or something in reality they're just going into the tunnel up 17 at halftime it's like they are truly not satisfied with anything they could literally be up 40 which they were and like still they're not like all right it's time let's let's take a breathe they're like no they they want to just pound it and so i think they're you know there's the whole trap game thing i think we see that a lot more in football than we do in basketball but it's still there in basketball especially when you have a a 9 p.m tuesday night

game on espn and dan dakich is fucking calling the game and you're like oh my god i don't even want to be here but i loved it i love dakich i normally do not like him at all but man he his shout outs were amazing he he lit up your boy franz with uh with some good feedback and then he shouted out skeeps which i was like all right get off the air now and then a high note that was amazing i have uh i have a roommate that doesn't watch a ton of basketball and he he just hates dan dockage and this is the first game he's ever watched and he's just like who the hell is this guy and why is he allowed to call national games and i was like i guarantee if you go on twitter right now he's trending because everyone is saying the same thing as you and everyone hates him but espn puts him on every

big big 10 game and it's it's whatever i i don't know how he's allowed to do every primetime game but i can't stand listening to him he's just i i tweeted out during the game like we were i and i should probably be talking to myself because i yell on here very frequently but he's literally screaming on the broadcast i'm like dude calm down you and then and then the best part about it is like i thought about it for a second i realized he's at home in his basement right now because he's calling the game from home i'm like he's not even like feeding off of the uh the the like energy of the the teams or anything like that he's just like in his basement screaming at the wall like his wife's probably up there like shut up i'm trying to read my book something like that i'm like dude you're ridiculous dude i'm sure we can all relate

we've all been in our basements screaming at the tv oh yeah but yeah. You know, Dan Dockett, what he does is if a team is playing well in a game, he's like, oh, I've been calling this for them all year long. Franz Wagner has been the greatest player. Hunter Dickinson, I knew it all along. And then, like, you know, the next game if Wisconsin plays well. Well, you know, Brad Davidson has been really great for them. And Nate Reavers has just been, you know, the next game, if Wisconsin plays well, well, you know, Brad Davidson has been really great for them. And Nate Reavers has just been, you know, I've been hot on them this entire year. You know, like, he just rides the hot team no matter who it is.

And so he's just like, I'm like, dude. And his son, you know, transferred from Michigan to Ohio State, so he's a piece of, you know, whatever. There's no loyalty in that family no no no what a great segue my favorite my favorite uh my favorite part about it is that ant wright on twitter just clowns dakich for when he said he could like he outplayed michael jordan or something like that back in the day and then they like like ant wright dug up the film on it and he like got absolutely murdered by michael jordan or something like that it was hilarious so what kept making me laugh about him is like michigan is up like 40 points and he's talking about how wisconsin is like definitely

one of the top teams in the Big Ten. And it's like if there was ever a time to back away from like that take, it's probably when they're getting hammered on the road. But he's like Michigan's great. Wisconsin's also great. And it's like, come on, man. Like look at the score. Michigan's clearly a better team at least tonight. But, yeah, he doubles down.

I'll give him credit. I mean he's not shy he must read some of those tweets i mean people are adding in there they're vicious it doesn't stop him he does not even read just his ads though he always searches his own name always if you notice like the tweets he tweets uh back at people they don't add him So he literally goes on Twitter and searches his own name to try and get in Twitter fights with bots or people like them. No, no profile picture. I'm like, bro, you have you have a problem here. You really have a problem.

Those fans engaged. Yeah. So. All right. Well, we can segue into football. That was a lot of positive talk. You know, when you move into the football team, I don't know how much. We got some positives right now.

We do. There's some positives. There's some. Finally, it feels like for the first time in, you know, ever that we actually have some positive news here. It's like actual news. We were just speculating for months. We're just talking about, like, so what if? What do you think if hardball signs what do

you think like it was just all these what ifs and finally we have some news so i don't think we've done a podcast since uh since hardball officially signed have we i thought we were talking about urban meyer being the coach of the jaguar yes my guy urban my favorite guy ever. So happy for him that his health is back in, you know, great terms here, and he's able to get on the sideline. He's cured. He went with Trevor Lawrence, and Dabo Sweeney dunked him in the river down there, and he came out and it healed all his ailments.

Oh, man. Yeah, perfect timing for him to go join the Jaguars. We totally have a number one overall pick. He got one of the best quarterbacks of, you know, the decade coming out in the draft. He played it well. I'll give him props for that. He played it well. I liked the idea that if Fields somehow won that national championship game,

that if he did get that job, he was just going to try and force them to draft an Ohio State state player but i think the jaguars owner kind of got out ahead of that i don't know if you saw he said like we're looking to hire a coach who wants to coach trevor lawrence like he was like we're not hiring somebody who's not taking trevor lawrence so i have to imagine he signed on to uh taking lawrence before was before taking the job. Yeah. I do – I mean, I don't know about you guys, and we can – I don't know if we even want to get into this, but Lawrence I still think is a lot better than Fields. The intangibles are there.

I don't know. But I also watch Kyler Murray, and he's played well. I see Justin Fields as a better Kyler Murray. He's not quite as fast but i think he's has a better arm i don't know quick man i don't know i'm right now i'm i'm more of a fields fan than i am trevor lawrence but i don't think you can go wrong either way i i really don't and and somebody brought this up to me and i thought this was a great point if you if you were to take fields over lawrence and lawrence ends up being as good as we think he is,

like, you don't recover from that as a GM or as a coach. I mean, he seems like a can't-miss guy. That's a Lions or Jets move to just, like, you know, that's like a Detroit Pistons move to draft, what's his name, Darko Milicek over Carmelo Anthony and Dwayne Wayne. Dude, you're overthinking it. Trevor Lawrence is really good. Take him. But, yeah, so I want to get your guys' thoughts on the Harbaugh contract.

I think all of us, Jack and Kalen, we were off the Harbaugh train towards the end of the season. I think many others were as well. It was just, it just kind of seemed like we were going in this direction of, you know, he was ready to leave. He didn't have it anymore, you know, on and on and on. There were so many things you could say about what happened, but Shane, where, where are you on that? Were you off the Harbaugh train or were you still thinking he could be the guy? So I, I was very much on the Harbaugh train, even after the Alabama loss, um, in 2019, I thought the calls like to get rid of them were crazy. I didn't think Michigan could do any better than what we had.

Um, but this year I, I was completely off. I think the Wisconsin game this year is the lowest point I've been as a Michigan fan which was like just watching a team that looked like they had completely quit on national TV just get their teeth kicked in like in their in their home arena and I don't know what that means with no fans like in an empty arena I mean I think it probably made it worse because there was there was nothing but the product on the field for them to just be sad about. But I mean, they're a missed field goal away from winning one game this year. Um, so I was completely off. It looked like the team had quit on him like midway through the year. And I think that's really

telling, especially in college football. I mean, how often do you see a college team quit on a coach? I feel like you see a lot more in the pros um but yeah I mean I have thoughts on the actual contract itself but I'm I'm definitely off the Harbaugh train but I'm sure you know if they come out and play like they did week one this year I'll be I'll be right back on so I'm easy to I'm easy to convince I think we're all in that same boat but yeah let's talk about that contract. What are your thoughts on that? I mean, my two thoughts were this. One, it kind of made it feel like this year didn't matter. Like that was the university stance.

It's like we're resigning him regardless of what happened on the field this year. So if that's the case, if this year didn't really impact your decision, why is he now worth half of what he used to be? That's what really bothered me is if he's worth keeping, why is he only worth half of what he used to get paid? That's what really irked me is you're admitting it hasn't really lived up to what we thought it was going to be. We don't think he's now worth, you know, 8 million, one of the highest paid coaches in college football, but he's still worth keeping around. I mean, that just didn't make sense to me. I don't think he's now worth $8 million, one of the highest paid coaches in college football, but he's still worth keeping around. I mean that just didn't make sense to me.

I don't know why you cut somebody's salary but say we still want you to stay. Especially when you have coaches like Matt Campbell who's seen what he's built at Iowa State and what he's done with a program that doesn't really get – or doesn't have the opportunity to get very many highly rated recruits. And you think bring that guy to Michigan. He can build a culture. He's a younger guy. doesn't really get or doesn't have the opportunity to get very many highly rated recruits and you think you know bring that guy to michigan he can you know build a culture he's a younger guy so he can relate to the players guys his players love him you know he's he's great at developing the talent that he does get i mean it's that's a that's a bothersome more than anything exactly what you said shane i mean they cut his salary half. So clearly you don't think he's worth the $8 million that he was before. So why even resign him at that point?

If you don't think he's worth it, then why are you even bringing him back? There were other options out there that you could go after. But you're like, you know what? We'll keep him. But we're going to cut you in half. We're going to give you an opportunity to make your money back with incentives. But I think it's just got to be, you know, he and Ward are buddy-buddy and that's the only reason he's still around. Yeah, I had a couple other takeaways.

One, I mean, I had – I didn't really think about it at first, but I realized like, wait a second, they're not extending his contract. This is a whole new contract right and pretty much yeah they also kind of revamped the idea of a contract i like there's not really a contract like this for any other college football coach but i feel like there definitely should be because it makes so much sense right like you should definitely get like a base salary and make a lot more money based on what goals you execute so i almost look at this contract and i go like going forward this is definitely a formula that michigan should use for any coaching candidate because it makes so much sense yeah i i think you know i think we hated on ward a lot on here, and I know I did elsewhere as well.

Just on the whole process, it seemed like he didn't have his shit together, and it seemed like they were, for whatever reason, this whole thing was delayed, and we didn't hear anything, and it was everything in the dark, rumors, rumors, rumors. But I do have to give him a lot of props for this contract because like you just said, Kalen, I think this is exactly how the contract should be written for most coaches in college football. Most coaches in sports, you know, if I, if I'm, if I'm, I know coaching is different than any other job out there, but you know, if, if I don't perform in my job right now, they don't, you know, fire me and then give me the $8 million. They don't give me the entire contract that I was written up for at the beginning of it.

They'll give me a severance package, but the buyout's not going to be worth the entire thing. So I think it should be incentive-based. It should be a situation where, you know what? if you want to win, if you want to make money with us, you got to win and you got to prove it. And so finally, you know, does money even motivate Jim Harbaugh at this point? I don't know. He's got a lot of it already. So does it really matter to him that much?

Or is he more about his own pride and being successful? I would say he's probably more about that just because of his ego um but i still think that ward deserves some some credit at for getting this done in the way it was even though it took longer and it was more you know troubling to get through than we would have liked yeah one thing to too, is just how low the buyout is. I think I saw that the buyout for the coach at North Texas is higher. And then it gets lower every year. So they can mutually part ways or they can basically pay him off at the drop of a hat so this feels like definitely you know okay jim it's time to like you know put up or shut up for sure like this is the time because if you can't get the job

done in 2021 like we can pay it off and we're gonna go find someone else like for real so i think i was if i can just add on that point I think that almost disappointed me that they wanted to negotiate a lower bio because to me that comes from the idea that like that's the athletic department saying like we want to make it easier to let you go because we're kind of anticipating that's going to happen that's what that's what bothered me about it is it's like they set themselves up to let him go either next year or the year after and making it easier from there, which doesn't make me really think you have that much faith that he is still the guy. And I think that's what bothered me. I think it's what bothers a lot of Michigan fans is like, I felt like they made this move because it was the easiest thing to do.

And also they're recognizing like, you know, if this does really go bad and we see another year next year like we saw this year, like it is it is time to be done. But I don't know. It just felt like they came about it from the wrong way. They made the easy decision and they're almost preparing to fire him next year, which makes me ask why why even give him that opportunity? But, you know, I hope he turns it around. I want to see Michigan win, but I just it's hard to have that faith right now. Well, here I'm going to try and turn this around and throw this at you from a different angle. Jim Harbaugh is supposed to be the ultimate competitor, right? Do you think now he's being put under the gun and this is his time where he performs the best? See, I would have agreed with you on that before this year but I mean I was in a number

of those press conferences after the game and even leading up to weeks like the way he talked about what was going on in the field made it feel to me like he was watching a completely different game I mean like after Wisconsin game it felt like we were just a couple plays away they weren't a couple plays they lost by five touchdowns a couple Yeah, like, like, that's what bothered me is it didn't seem like it bothered him as much as it should have, like what was going on on the field. And I'll give him a slight pass. You know, this was a weird year. Michigan had some injuries, some guys, you know, semi opted out on minor injuries, but it just didn't feel like it angered him how bad they were this year and and that really rubbed me the wrong way because it felt like he was watching a

different product um than us as fans were and we've said it too it feels like he just lost his fire from 2015-2016 like you if you see that same guy back in 2015, 2016, after this, like for this year, you'd expect a lot more, you know, clips of him being taken where he's just a little more fired up than he was. You know, it didn't seem like he had it all season. Just that rubbed off on the players. I think you could see it didn't seem to bother. I mean, you saw guys like celebrating a tackle down, you know, four touchdowns. It's like, what are you doing out there? And I think that does come from the coach, you know,

what attitude he's putting out there is going to rub off on the players. And if he's, you know, going to bring back that fire, I think it will rub off on the players. So I hope he does do that. I hope this, you know, incentive-based contract does that. But right now I just – I don't see it. Yeah, and I mean the weird thing is well jim has always kind of been an excuse guy right he always has some reason for why he uh why the

the team didn't perform you know he even even like in ohio state in 2016 you know he's complaining about the officials which yeah they yeah, they were terrible. But as the head coach, do you come out and say that afterwards? I don't know. Hell yeah. Fire him up, baby. Yeah, well, I don't know. Well, either way, he's always been kind of an excuse guy,

and he's got something for every reason for everything. But I do think that rubs off on his guys sometimes too it's like there's not like a fight through it type of thing like all right if the reps are against us fuck them we'll beat them too you know like there's not that type of fight i i don't see uh from michigan especially of late maybe you saw it a little bit earlier in the in harbaugh's career um but i i did want to you know ask you guys because shane you said it and i agree this contract kind of sets him up for like all right next year it's either you know do or die right so so what's the what's the expectation that you guys have that will give harbaugh 2022 and 2023 you know much, what does he have to do

to earn that? Because right now it kind of seems like, you know, before it was the contracts on the table, you have to completely screw it up to make us take that off the table, right? Now it's like, it's off the table. You have to earn it to, for us to put it back on the table type of a thing. So what does Jim Harbaugh have to do? What does Michigan have to do in 2021 to earn him a 2022 I mean I think that's a that's a good question and that's what I want to know too is like is it you know beat Ohio State or you're out because I don't think there's many people that think next year's Michigan team is

going to be better than Ohio State um so you know know, let's say he goes 11-1 and loses to Ohio State, assuming they play a full 12-game slate. Like, is he still out then? That's kind of what I would like to know from the administration. Obviously, they'll never just say that black and white, but, you know, obviously the contract is structured in a way that, you know, beating Ohio State is going to be the hurdle to get most of those incentives that we see. I mean, that's what I want to know is, I don't think many Michigan fans, and I know I'm sure a lot do because it's the goal every year to beat Ohio State, but even with the talent Michigan brings back next year, I don't see how that's enough to beat Ohio State.

So does Jim Harbaugh still then get, you know, another chance if everything else is a win? So I don't know. I want to know if Ohio State really is that litmus test from the athletic department. Is that game where they're putting all their apples, or is it just the performance as a whole throughout other games? I mean, I think if he goes 11-1 and has only lost to Ohio State, I think there's no way you can get rid of him after that, because that's the first year he's won 11 games so I mean Michigan has only won 11 games five times in their history

history of the program so like that's where like Spath was on the on our podcast uh earlier this week and he's like no he has to win 11 and 11 games next year or he's done and I'm like dude that's pretty ridiculous because a they haven't done it yet under jim harbaugh b they haven't done it ever like brady hoke did it in 2011 and that was it like even lloyd carr was went 10 and 3 all the time did he beat ohio state in those 10 and 3 years and win the big like 10 and 3 years was enough to win the big 10 when Lloyd Carr was there yes it was different but I still think there's this uh you know that's just a ridiculous expectation because it's not realistic right like 10 and 3 to me seems kind of like the ceiling a little bit for

not just Jim Harbaugh but for Michigan right now because of the way that the rest of the big 10 is and then specifically the way Ohio State is right now. No, I agree. But that's kind of the question is there's no scenario where Jim Harbaugh earns the rest of those incentives and doesn't beat Ohio State in my mind. So in my mind then he has to beat them for that contract to really pay out the way that I think the university is hoping it will to encourage him to do better. So, I mean, I think that's just kind of the way college football is going now. And we see that like, if you're not winning your conference, if you're not heading

into the end of the season undefeated or with one loss, like you're just not in the picture. And for Michigan, that's going to be beating Ohio State, as we all know. So if he still can't do that, I don't know if he's worth keeping around. I mean, the thing is, too, is like you said, I mean, you need Ohio State to have two losses for Michigan to really have a chance if they're not going to beat them. And, you know, 2018, 2016, Ohio State, if they have two losses, Michigan's in the big 10 title game and we're having a totally different conversation right now but it's maryland if the fucking fucking maryland doesn't throw it right into the goddamn ground michigan's going to fucking indianapolis i know so i mean it's a mess but i think i think this year the only people that can save hardball this year are mike mcdonald if he has a just somehow has a creates an amazing defense josh gaddis what can he do in year three and mike hart what kind of culture can he bring man i mean

he's he's a guy who's lived this rivalry he's beaten all of his rivals right did he beat has he beaten ohio state at michigan when he was there yeah yeah you know how states i mean i mean he's a big part of the culture and what michigan believes they are and what they want to get to so i think bringing him back is huge and um shit man after seeing all this stuff with with milton's right hand being in a you know in a cast maybe we see a different milton maybe there's a little bit of a qb competition next year three-way competition between mcc McNamara, and Milton. I mean, you're – I love the optimism. I'm getting back on my optimism.

That is ridiculous. Close to – not even halfway to fucking – It's January fucking 14th in Jacksonville. Just saying, man. There's an opportunity. I don't think that they're going to have a great year, but there's always a possibility. Milton for Heisman.

Start it now. I love it, Jack. Bring it back. Keep it up, man. I need this. I need this level of positivity for this program. I looked back when Angelique put that tweet out, and Indiana, game three is when he had that thumb taped up. When did we start seeing his play decline?

Right? Right around that time? Week two? Week two. But he could have injured it in game two. I mean, he started off the first half pretty strong. We don't know when the injury happened. I mean, game two, I will say, wasn't our – it was not – I don't know if it was Joe Milton's fault.

It was the defense's fault, and we couldn't fucking run the ball. He was like 12-15 in the first half and was having a good half well that's very good we don't know when the injury happened you know i miss i'm just saying guys we you know i don't think we can with this new information has come to light i hate you so much it's a very good so much very good point because i think what what we wanted to see this year was the offense really take off. But the poor offense play was overshadowed by the, like, absolute garbage defense, right? So, like, definitely in 2021, the offense has to come out and has to deliver,

especially after we've seen this national championship game, right? We saw speed and space we saw like for the first time i think i was like holy shit this is what michigan's offense could be right like pre-snap create pre-snap crazy motions with guys in the backfield um you know getting receivers out in space dump off passes i. I was excited. And for a moment, I was like, dude, if we can get our offense high powered and in space, like we can actually be a very, very dominant team. So I think in 2021, I want to see this offense really take that step forward. Mike Hart is a great step. And I want to see them do that on the field.

How sad is that? We've been saying that for three years. Yeah, that's the thing. That offense is high power because, A, they have nine five-stars, and they also – Steve Sarkeesian is one of the greatest offensive minds out there, and that's why he just got hired at Texas. Well, tell that to his head coaching record. Yeah, well well he had some problems at us he's drinking water now he's drinking water exactly but you know what he's gonna guess what dude texas with steve sarkisian they're gonna

score like 80 points a game if they can do what he just did with alabama so i i don't know it's i think you're that's apples to oranges Steve Sarkeesian versus Josh Gaddis because Josh Gaddis is not showing that he can be the like you know the creative play caller that Steve Sarkeesian can but I still get what you're saying like the potentials there Michigan does have the talent on the offensive side of the ball and then if you what do you think about Mike Hart does that change things about what's going to happen in this running back room Mike Hart will be a success in my opinion this should be his first goal is convincing either Josh Gass or Jim Harbaugh I don't know who it is

but that you can leave a running back in for more than four straight plays I don't I don't know if you guys have talked about this on earlier shows but nothing irked me this season more than Haskins, like, clearly being the best back out of that group, having a great drive, and then just sit on the bench for, like, the next quarter. I don't know what the mindset was there. It really bugged me, but I hope Mike Hart comes in and picks one of these guys. I mean, they have a number of really talented backs and just says, like, we're going to ride this guy. You know, obviously you're going to rotate some guys in. But the idea that you're going to play like four running backs in a game and have all of them see significant snaps is just not a winning formula.

I mean, look across college football. How many teams do you know that ride that many guys and have a dominant rushing attack? It just doesn't really happen. And I think Haskins is and is like a talented enough guy that he could really be like a great number one back and I hope Mike Hart identifies that and and really pushes that on the guys above him yeah and like you said with that kind of rotation I mean you just don't see it in college football when you do see it you see two guys and I mean Georgia did it really well with um you know Nick Chubb Sonny Michelle DeAndre Swift I mean no I mean so many guys they've had it they're like

running back you down there in Georgia but they never had more than two guys that got you know significant snaps and there was always a number one guy you always knew who the number one guy was this past year you can say Haskins is probably the number one guy, but I don't know if you could pick out a number two. I mean, they're all getting the same amount of snaps. I think probably should have been Corum, but hopefully Mike Hart, like you said, Shane, he can push, you know, we need a number one back. We need a guy that we can rely on constantly and then get a guy that,

you know, we can put in to give number one guy a breather because this four-man rotation is not working. not working and i don't know if you guys saw this and this kind of went back to your comment about why alabama is able to do what they do and why michigan can't do that it was the the recruiting rankings of wide receivers where donovan peoples jones is ranked higher than davante smith jerry judy and henry r Ruggs. That told me everything I need to know about why I don't believe in Jim Harbaugh because he's brought in the talent, and it hasn't shown on the field. I mean, Michigan has brought in a number of guys that I think we were all really excited about coming out of high school.

They're doing it again this year. And then three years in, you're kind of wondering what happened to that guy on Michigan's team, and why is he not in the conversations with guys that were ranked lower than him coming out of high school? And now, you know, DPJ starts for the Browns in the freaking playoffs. Like, he's obviously good enough to do it, and so the development is one thing that I don't think Michigan has done as good of a job as they should be doing, but also, just get those playmakers touches. If you look at just the touches between Devontae Smith and DPJ in their

couple years in college, and it's like, it's insane. You know, I don't think DPJ even had like 20 catches on the year, let alone 20 touchdowns on the year like Devontae Smith did. And so maybe he wasn't developed enough to do it. But if he was, which I think he showed flashes of it, so try and get him the ball. Try and get Nico Collins the ball. Get Hassan Haskins the ball.

Those are the guys that you need to figure it out because if Alabama can get those playmakers the ball, they have way more weapons on the bench than Michigan does you know you don't have to play every weapon that showed a little bit of sunshine in practice like they can wait their turn just like Najee Harris even waited his turn at Alabama until he was ready and now he's a freaking Heisman finalist you know so we have this thing I don't know if they're scared of guys transferring but it seemed like in 2020 and maybe it was just because it was a weird year and they were like

screw it it's not a real year we'll just try and get everybody experience but it was this thing where it was just like they felt like they needed to get anybody who had a good practice ever throughout the season they needed to see some time in the game because they earned it somehow. And it's like, dude, no, play guys that are going to win you the football game. And I mean, how many times did you see Michigan's offense try and throw it to Eric Alls, like after he had dropped five passes and everyone would just say, hey, we heard he had a great practice this week. I mean, like Michigan just kept trying to force the ball to guys that it seemed like they had picked before the game. We're going to get touches regardless of what was actually going on on the field. And that's what's really frustrating me.

I mean, you see it with these really great teams in college football, and Ohio State does it well. They have plays where they just throw it to Chris Olave no matter what because he's their best playmaker, and he's going to do great things with the ball in his hands. And Michigan needs to do more of that. Just get your most talented players out there get him the ball and and good things happen and not overthink it and so the one thing I do like about the Mike Hart thing going back to that is he is a young guy that's going to come in with some fire knows the culture knows what winning looks like at Michigan uh you know, knows the rivalry games. And the fire in the young part is really what stands out to me

because I feel like Michigan hasn't had that really much. All these assistant coaches are pretty old. You know, there's – Don Brown's obviously fiery, but it's not like a Juwan Howard type of fiery where he's like the cool uncle, which I think, you know, Mike Hart's going to be like that brother type of guy to a lot like the cool uncle which i think you know mike hart's gonna be like that brother type of guy to a lot of these running backs right the older brother type guy so i actually see that a little bit in mike mcdonald too i don't know if he'll be the older brother type guy but he's a young like he's jacked actually and he's like he'll he's just like he's

gonna bring us something to the table there that's's not like old, old professor type guy that Don Brown was. And even, you know, some of the, some of the other guys that are with them, it's going to be like, uh, he's getting into, you know, doing the drills with them and stuff like that, which I think can help with, uh, getting these guys fired up to play. Yeah. As long as we can. I would actually love to see Mike McDonald paired up with, like, an older guy as, like, a co-DC,

specifically somebody to coach up, like, defensive line. That would be ideal, in my opinion. I don't even – I pretend the D-line doesn't exist right now. I was so disappointed by that position group this year. I mean, Hutch coming back is big, I think, for this team, and he's going to have to be an anchor on what seems like a weak position group next year. But, yeah, the defense this year, I don't know. I'm not sure if there's any coach that could fix what we saw this year with just the talent. The talent that they had.

I mean, when you think of the best Michigan teams, you just knew that their defense could get a stop. And it seemed like every time Michigan got in third down this year, you just kind of accepted that the offense was going to convert. And that's a problem. And I mean, I just pray that New D.C. can figure that one out, because it was just discouraging to watch a defense unable to get off the field and not only do you expect that offense to convert on third down if we do happen to stop them you're holding your breath waiting for a flag to be thrown for holding in the secondary or something ridiculous i i can't i can't tell you how many times i'm like okay they stopped them but I'm like sitting here and I'm either saying, what the fuck, because a flag is thrown, or I'm like a sigh of relief because they actually stopped him and are able to get the ball back.

It's just a mess, man. I've got, I don't know. I'm excited for Braden McGregor because he'll be healthy this year. He'll be kind of like, he'll be a bookend with Hutchinson. And then I want to see some Mozzie Smith, man. I want to see Mozzie Smith get in there a little bit more. We know Chris Hinton's back, and he's going to do really well. But other than that, man, you got Welchoff, you got Gabe Newberg,

but I couldn't name anybody else on D-line. Yeah, he's some DTs. If you want to have some fun, watch McGregor's high school highlights. He's got some offensive snaps and he is Rob Gronkowski. It's fun to watch. I'll say that. I was watching some earlier this year preparing for a piece and he is a dominant athlete. I mean, I know it's high school level, but they need to get him on the field next year as much as they can. Love it. Love it. Well, that's about all I have on this. I mean, I know we've covered pretty much everything with Harbaugh,

with the new hires. We'll see what happens with the rest of the defensive staff because they haven't officially hired Mike McDonald, I guess. According to Sam Webb and other people, it's pretty much a done deal. Michigan just is waiting, which, by the way saw uh don brown in in uh in arizona polo for uh for the first time it was really weird it was really weird i like we trashed him a little bit but i know like on his way out we definitely missed him i i like him as a person i wish him well i hope him and jed fish because i wish jed fish was here as well.

So I hope that they do well in Arizona in the Pac-12. And so that would be fun to watch a few old Michigan guys there. But a couple days here, we'll have some more Michigan basketball, Michigan versus Minnesota at 2 p.m. on Saturday. Big test. Big test for Michigan on the road. They haven't had too many big tests on the road, so I'm excited about that. And then we'll have more, like I said, football news hopefully in the next, you know, week or two with some more hires and recruits.

I know the two five-star corners are recruiting here soon at the end of January, I believe. So we'll see how that goes. I'm hoping, but not very confident now that Zordich is gone. So, I mean, you saw that, was it Damani Jackson? Right after Zordich was let go, he announced, he's like, I'm going to make my commitment, you know, I think it's 23rd of January. So it doesn't leave you too confident that he's coming to Ann Arbor.

No, and I don't know. The whole Zordich thing, I don't really understand. And we can talk about that another time because we've gone pretty long today. But, like, I just don't understand that. So we'll see. We'll see. All right, well, thank you, Shane, for coming on. Appreciate it.

Shane Werner from Wolverine Sports TV. Where can people follow you at? I'm on Twitter, just at my name, and then give the Wolves Sports TV accounts a follow. Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, we're everywhere. Give us a follow there. Appreciate it. Yeah, no problem.

They've been putting out some fire highlight tapes after the Michigan basketball games. They've got access to Juwan Howard and the team and Jim Harbaugh and these press conferences. And it's a it's a really good follow actually uh if you're looking for um some more media uh people to to gain some access because they have actually probably better access than most other media people do which is pretty cool so thank you again for coming on shane appreciate it we'll uh we'll

have to have you again at some point but uh we really appreciate you coming on thank you go blue all right thanks guys go blue go blue