Blue By Ninety - Stadium & Main | Michigan OL Coach Jim Harding

Episode Date: January 21, 2026

New Michigan OL Coach Jim Harding joins Chris Wormley and Jordan Strack to break down what he plans to bring to Ann Arbor to build the trenches for Michigan.

All right, welcome in to Stadium and Maine an offseason edition. And I'm Jordan Strack. That's Chris Wormley. And on the other side of your screen, New Michigan offensive line coach, Jim Harding, three Northwest Ohio guys, all just hanging out. We're going to talk ball for a little bit. First off, Jim, as the resident Ma'amie guy around here, it's good to have another Ma'amie guy getting back into the fold in this thing.

Mike Jacobs was named the head coach. at Toledo. You're the new offensive line coach at Michigan. I'm just a bum that does a podcast, but it is so good to have you. How are things, man, how is the transition to Ann Arbor been? It's been awesome. I mean, extremely thankful for the opportunity. It has been a bit of a whirlwind. I think it's been a total of 16 days and been constant roster retention and then just trying to get acclimated to our 2027 list, which is what we're in now is recruiting. And so, but it's great to be back home and, and, uh, it is a lot of work, but, but very thankful for this opportunity. I have to ask you, growing up in Northwest Ohio, um, I believe there's some

mommy people that told me that you were a Buckeye fan growing up. Uh, is that true? And have you, uh, it was that true first off? I will never say it's been true. I was, I was a Toledo Rocket fan. That's what I was. There we go. There we go. I like that. See, that's how we got to answer that thing.

You've got this thing nailed first off. Perfect. But I remember you as not just a football player, because I grew up watching you at Mommy High School. You were a really good basketball player, too. Can you still play hoops a little bit or what? I can shoot if it involves any true athleticism, running around the court, planting, any sort of change of

direction. That's not my game, but sitting and playing horse or things like that. I can hold my own in a horse game. I like you, you weren't have that in common. Both football players, both hoopers. You hope? No, I'm saying you were a hooper. Easy worm. You were ready to jump all over me on that. No, I was, I mean, I scored eight points, maybe averaged eight rebounds and about five files a game. I was solely the five getting reboards and being the enforcer. But I appreciate the compliment for sure. Yeah. Yeah, all right, Jim. Go ahead, Warren.

You go ahead. Yeah, you were talking about kind of the retention of the recruiting class of 26 and then looking at the 27. How important is it to recruit, especially specifically offensive linemen from the Midwest? Or have things kind of opened up now that, you know, especially with NIL and all that, kind of more national kind of outlook on things? How does that look for you guys? Yeah, I think here at Michigan, you know, just the brand, the ability to recruit nationally, that's something that's a little bit new coming from Utah.

I mean, in this last recruiting class, they have a kid signed from Hawaii that we actually recruited and then as far east as Massachusetts with Markey Walbridge. So, you know, that's about as coast to coast as you can come. And so it really has been, you know, with two of those guys already being on campus, another young man from Maryland, and then we have two joining us in the summer. That 26th class certainly you want to keep those guys.

But in addition to the 26th class, it really was a bit of a challenge, to say the least, trying to get kids that were currently on the roster to try to give us an opportunity to develop some trust and kind of show them what I think we can do. do and that's in no disrespect to the previous staff whatsoever. It's, you know, these kids that are on the roster currently at Michigan really went through a lot of, you know, drama and a lot of adversity and things like that. And so having a brand new staff come in and really the first week just being on the phone because, you know, school didn't start until January 7th.

So those first four or five days just trying to develop any sort of relationship with those kids over a phone call was a challenge. But we had, I think, in the offensive line room, I think five kids went into the portal, and two of them came out and really, really thankful and appreciate them, you know, buying in and giving me an opportunity to, you know, hopefully help them develop and then not only

achieve the goals we need to as a team, but also for them individually. Can you walk us through the timeline and just kind of how this whole thing went down. I know, you know, Kyle Whittingham, he steps down, or he's leaving Utah, he then takes the Michigan job, and then you guys had a bowl game. Walk me through how this whole process kind of went down and what those conversations were like as you made the decision to come over to Ann Arbor. Yeah. You know, the date, I mean, I was talked to my wife about it. I mean, just the sheer, I guess, chaos, I guess is the best way.

to describe it. But, you know, we had had a practice at Utah. I don't remember the exact date, but when Coach Witt, we got done with practice, he let the team know he was stepping down. And Coach Morgan Scali, who I think will do a great job at Utah, you know, was the head coach in waiting. And just things started to fall on social media where, you know, Coach Witt's name started to become a little bit more prevalent on social media. media and things like that. And so we went to Vegas the day after Christmas. So the 26th, coach Witt flew on the plane with the team. And we had a team meeting upon arrival. And he announced that, you know, he was going to step, step away, let Coach Scali take over. And And it really was an awkward situation just down in Vegas at the bull site.

You know, who, and again, as each day went on, you know, I can't remember the exact timeline of when Coach Witt was announced at Michigan. It may have been that day or maybe the next day. But then it was really who is Coach Witt talked to. And I really made a promise, honestly, I had, you know, my two tackles who I think are both going to be first round draft picks, certainly one. will be, I think the other one will slide in. But then I had three seniors that, you know, they chose to play in the game.

And I really committed to them that I wasn't going to, you know, engage in any contract talks or anything like that until we played in the game, which happened to actually be the same day Michigan played Texas on New Year's Eve. And so we played the game. Thankfully, we won. and, you know, the next day in talking to Coach Witt, I said, you know, hey, I'm in and went ahead and went through the contract stuff on, I believe January 1st and January 2nd, they flew us out to Ann Arbor and introduced us at, I want to say, the USC basketball game, if I remember right. And so all of it really got accelerated. I tried to do my best not to get on social media. and really engage in anything. Just I wanted to make sure I finish it right with the kids at Utah. And then certainly had conversations with my wife.

And we discussed what could have been, but really the focus didn't turn to Michigan until we got back here to Salt Lake, which is actually where I'm at right now. We will be out on the road recruiting tomorrow. So I came back here these last couple days. Perfect. Go ahead. That's a whirlwind of, you know,

really three or four weeks, but you had talked about those two guys that are, you know, one first rounder for sure and a second, you know, potential, you know, second first round pick as an offensive line. And talk about the development that you've been able to develop these guys over the last, you know, 10, 20, 30 years of your career. I remember going up against guys like Garrett Bowles and be like, man, this guy is, is tough. I played him a couple times in the NFL now coming out of Utah.

Talk about that development coming out of Utah and the things you've been able to do with those players. Yeah, the one thing I do take a lot of pride on, especially with the, transfer portal, you know, really coming into college football heavy the last three years. We've only taken at Utah, there was only one transfer portal kid in the last three years. So, you know, Spencer and Caleb, every college snap they took was at the University of Utah. And, you know, there's certainly, you know, I feel like, you know, there was a part that I played in in it. But at the same time, I think those two kids and a lot of kids when I'm recruiting them in

high school right now, there is a. a characteristic that those type of kids have that I feel is unique, that make them really special. You mentioned Garrett Bowles, another kid that came to us out of Snow Junior College, a JC here in the state of Utah. But they just have this uncommon trait that they want to be great. They want to be coached hard. You can get after them. And I think the two kids I had this past year are a lot like Garrett in that, you know, they have a strong desire to be the greatest. they are, you know, not in an arrogant way.

They don't talk about it that way, but they're not, they're not afraid or shy about wanting to be the best. And if they feel, you know, that they need extra work or extra film work, you know, they're very proactive about making sure that they're getting what they need out of it. And, and again, great kids come from great families, both both Spence and Caleb. And so, you know, the development and things like that, that's something that I really try to pride myself on. Like I said, the fact we don't necessarily go through the portal to build the room. And I'm not going to say that it'll never happen. Just the way college football is, it may need to if kids transfer out. But I prefer to try to take a kid as a freshman and, you know, really work through a lot of, you know, just some things that each fundamental or technique you're looking at to really try to build off of that.

and just try to take one little thing at a time that eventually when it's all said and done there, they become a high level player. So I mentioned you grew up in Northwest Ohio. Your wife and her family are from Troy, I believe, right? Farmington Hills. Farmington Hills. Okay. And you coached it Troy.

So you are very familiar with this area. How important was that for you and your family to get back to this part of the country? Because you're a loyal guy. You have stayed with Kyle Whittingham for a long time. and I'm sure turned down some other opportunities to leave and go for other things. Why was this the right move at this point? Yeah, being at Utah for it ended up being 12 seasons, you know, I owe the University of Utah a great deal, have really some strong friendships that we build out here.

But as you mentioned, with me growing up in Toledo, or just outside of Toledo, and then my wife being in Farmington Hills, you know, we have two boys, 15 and 13, freshman in seventh grade. And so this is the first time that they're going to go back and live around aunts, uncles, grandparents, cousins. And so I just felt it was the right time. I mean, the University of Michigan, you know,

the opportunity anyway speaks for itself. But then when you include the family opportunity, it just was too great of an opportunity to look the other way. Yes, I was going to ask, what are you looking forward to most being back in the Midwest? Is it the family? Is it Rudy's and Tony's Paco's down in Toledo? What are you looking forward to most? If I didn't say family, I think I would get in trouble if anyone listens to this.

But I just love, I think, the Midwest college football, that's kind of the epicenter of college football. The passion, just certainly, you know, I've been in the big house. We played in 2014, Utah played out. It was a rain game. It was. I played in that game. That was terrible. Sorry, sorry to cut you off.

I just got bad memories of that game. It was like a three-hour rain, lightning delay. We lost. It was bad, yeah. I was not going to say what Utah's records in 2015. Were you there in 2015 then when you played in Salt Lake? Jim, our coach our boss first. So we won't talk about that.

that, Chris, either of those games, but I could probably find some film that I brought over if we want to break that down, but nonetheless. But family, certainly, just the Michigan tradition. I'm a huge Detroit Tigers fan, so to be able to go to Comerica, which I think they're changing the field's name, but just, I don't know, to me, this is where, you know, my wife and I grew up, And so there's a lot of things that will look forward, you know, going up north and in the summertime up in Michigan. There's a lot of great things about that area of the country. And so, but on the top of the list, certainly being around family is the number one deal. Worm, you left off Penguin Palace, man.

That's the Maumee's staple. Like there's Paco's and there's all those things, but like Penguins Palace, are you a Penguins guy, Jim? Jordan. It's Jackie's Depot. the one downtown, oh, off of Coney Street. Yeah. Ice cream spot, right? Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I know Jackie's. It's down there. And Jackie, Jackie's is really good, too. They're both right there. You're right.

You're right. That's good. Call me out. I like it. All right. So I got to ask you, you have worked so closely with Jason Beck this last year. What can Michigan fans expect with a Jason Beck offense? Because I think people are very, very excited about the potential.

to watch how all that unfolds. Yeah, so, you know, I first began working with Jason a year ago. And the thing that I am probably most impressed by working with him is just how versatile he is and how adaptable he is, whatever the skill set is that he has to work with from the perimeter standpoint. I think he's really, really unselfish in the fact that if he sees things or if somebody in that room brings up, hey, what about, you know, this particular concept, whether in the run or the past game, there is no ego in terms of, well, I didn't come up with it. And some guys in

that role may have that approach. But Coach Beck is incredible, a great human being, a great family guy, but in terms of the football aspect, just his ability to really be creative in trying to take advantage of the skill sets of the kids that he has to work with. And so really excited about, you know, I hear from Coach Alford, you know, about these running backs. I've watched, you know, some of the Michigan, you know, games. I mean, they're incredibly talented. And then the guys we've, you know, we've gotten, we were able to retain, but then also get out of the portal on the perimeter. I just think there's a lot of weapons he's going to have.

And then obviously, really impressed with the way Bryce is. You know, my interactions with that kid are not extensive, but the ones I have, this kid's a really mature kid and impressive looking kid, incredible arm strength, just in my evaluation. And so I think Coach Beck has a lot of weapons at his disposal, and I'm confident that he'll use them to the best of their ability. I'm just going to follow up real quick on that. Also, Jay Hill coming in as a defense coordinator, obviously.

coached against him. What can Michigan fans kind of expect there? Yeah, again, you know, no disrespect to BYU. I mean, they've obviously, they beat us the past two years. And Coach Hill was the defensive coordinator. They put a lot of stress on you in terms of just being able to communicate up front in terms of the different looks that they gave us. The last two years, again, really intelligent.

You know, just, again, a really good person, good family man, that really gave us fits these last two years. And so I'm glad that we only have to play him in spring ball and fall camp and that I don't have to worry about it in a regular season game. Because I do think he's a dang good coach. And I think the fans will be excited with the product he puts on the field. Yeah. For me, as a defensive line, I always felt like I was at my best

when we had a really good offensive line to go up against every single week in practice, especially in camp. That's a lot of development, spring ball, that's coming up for you for you guys real soon. Can you talk about how iron sharpens iron, especially in the trenches? It's one of those few positions where you can't do, you know, walkthroughs and really seven-on-seven type of practices all through the year. You've got to be in there, get your hands on each other, be physical. Talk about that kind of iron sharpens iron mentality. Yeah, certainly the best teams I've been around is when one day in spring ball, the O line gets after the D-line and vice versa, the very next day. If there's a consistent theme where one side of the ball is doing really well for an extended

period of time, that's a little bit alarming. And so, you know, just the ability to every single day, as you mentioned, to go, and not in a way where you're trying to hurt each other, but if you get in a combative situation, it's competitive, but at the end of the day, when practice is over and you go in the locker room and you're still one family, brotherhood, that goes a long way. And so I I, you know, again, I don't know the defensive kids truthfully as well as our offensive guys quite yet, but everything I hear is how excited they are on the defensive side of the ball as well with the D-line and the kids that we were able to kind of get back out of the portal and then a couple of the transfers as well. And then the old line I get, you know, was young last year, but I have a lot of experience for being young. And so, you know, I would anticipate this fall or really this spring, like you mentioned, that will be about a month.

from now. I imagine that'll be really competitive. And, and, uh, you know, at the end of the day, if, if it's a situation where we're both getting after each other and exchanging days of, of one getting the better the other, that should bode welcome the fall. Absolutely. I've obviously followed your career for a long time just because you're a mommy guy and I, I've known who you were for a long time. But in, and I, so I, I know that you have developed a bunch of guys, but what in your mind makes a good offensive lineman? Well, In terms of evaluating kids, I'm looking for athleticism, the ability to bend that allows you to recover, especially in past pro. When you're looking at the run game, you want guys that are finishing blocks that when the ball is away from them, they're not taking the playoff.

And so really it starts with, you know, how do you evaluate, you know, the film? Once it gets to, you know, you get your hands on them, it goes back to what we had mentioned earlier. There's got to be an internal drive to want to be great. And not, again, not in an arrogant way, not a guy getting on social media talking about what, you know, what they're going to do. It's a genuine internal drive that it's hard to identify truthfully in the recruiting process, especially with how fast things go and how offers are thrown out so quickly. And it's really a process that I think you really, you know, once you get to know, once you get to know, know, what drives on what, you know, Why do they play football? Are they interested in how many stars or what their rating is?

I'm not saying it's never going to work out, but in a lot of ways, those are not the kids that necessarily develop and become the high-level players. But in terms, like I said, going back to the beginning, when I'm looking at film, I'm looking for guys that are athletes. I love dual sport. You know, you bring up the basketball earlier that Chris played and myself. I mean, I just think the ceiling is higher for a kid that is dividing his time in high school. that when they fully focus on football, once they get to college,

their ceiling's going to be higher because they've divided their time prior to that. So you're looking at multi-athletes or multi-sport kids, athletes, physical, love playing football. Those are all characteristics that I think, you know, if I were to have to list the top three or four, those would be at the top. Just to follow up on that real quick, because I think obviously when you talk about playing multiple sports and all those things,

I read an article where Gary Pinkle, when he first found you, it was when you were playing basketball and, or at least he appreciated the fact that you were a basketball player. How much does that help in your mind? And why does that help if you can play multiple sports? Well, I think there's a lot of cross training, you know, with the basketball, the footwork, the ability to bend, the explosion. those are all things that transfer to the football field, regardless of what position you play,

but certainly offensive linemen. I'm a big believer in shot put numbers. I think, you know, I'm looking for, you know, that magic number to be in the mid-50s. If a kid can throw a shot put in high school in the mid-50s, that's going to show a lot of explosion and his ability to roll his hips in the run game for an offense alignment. So just through the years, I just feel that there are wrestling is great. you know, just how to use your hands, how to understand leverage and things like that. So there are certain things that I think do transfer if you are a multi-sport kid versus,

and there's nothing wrong, not saying that we would never recruit a kid that is just football. But if all they're doing is off-season training for an old lineman, all they're doing is old line work all year round, yet they're going to be a really good high school offense alignment, about how much, how much is there still left to develop if that's all they've done for four years of high school? And just in my opinion, not saying it's right or wrong, I just think there's more potential for growth than a multi-sport kid. Love it. That's a great perspective.

I mean, I played basketball, football like we talked about, but also shot put and disc and track. What were your shot put numbers, were them? Right there, that mid-50s, right? I think I would have been the perfect O-line recruit for coach Harding. Well, and I'm not trying to be funny, but I mean, I mean, obviously you're a dang good player. I mean, I know you went to Whitmer, the wrong Panthers, but like, but I, you know, we coached against you, but at the same time, you also played at a high level or the highest level, not only in college, but in the NFL. And that's a perfect example where, you know, you did throw in those mid-50s. you know, there's a kid that, you know, I think the highest I had at Utah was, I think, 58 or

59. He was our starting center of the last two years. And so you're a prime example that there's that magic, you know, magic 55-ish mid-50s that, and then you go on and you had a heck of an NFL career and like I said, played college at the highest level. So that's just another example right there. Absolutely. I want to kind of get back to we talk about just how dominant I think.

Well, I mean, we've talked about it all year this past year on this offensive line. And what a lot of young guys, you know, redshirt freshman, freshman playing, getting a lot of snaps. Back in 21 and 22, Michigan had won the Joe Moore Award, which is, you know, the best offensive line in the country. What's it going to take for this group to get back to that? And how do you see that playing out the next, you know, one to two, even three years? Yeah, certainly, you know, outside the offense. line meeting room. There's the two pictures of the offensive

line that want it, you know, emulating what the statue looks like. And so it's a huge, I guess, expectation in this, in this group that, you know, there's guys that were on that team, you know, on the,

the last Joe Moore when they were younger. And so they've seen what it looks like. And I, you know, I don't think it's wrong to shy, away from having that as the ultimate goal. Because as you mentioned, that's the kind of the standard for offensive line play in college. And so what is it going to take?

Well, first of all, we've got to have a great season. You know, no Joe Moore winner is going to be in an average or mediocre season. So we've got to do our part to make sure that we're successful, not only on the offensive side of ball, but also, you know, collectively as a team. But, you know, it's going to take great technique, great fundamentals. a commitment to making sure that, you know, we're being intentional with what we're doing each day at practice. It can't just show up on the 12 Saturdays of the season, expect to be able to be

recognized as one of the best. So there's certainly a culture and a kind of a mindset that needs to be created that, you know, if we're going to get back to it, and again, Michigan's had an incredible tradition of offensive line play through the years, you know, even before the Joe Moore, you know, Joe Moore, a war, John Jansons, like, right down the hallway doing media stuff. And so there's a lot of, there's a lot of great offensive line play. And so we just have to understand if we're going to be recognized as one of the best in this program, we've got to be intentional with everything we're doing. And that starts right now. The kids had their first workout last Thursday. And they have a full week starting tomorrow. So it's not a, it's not a 12-day

a year thing, it's, it's every single day. You've got to have the right mindset and approach. And that's, that's what we got to do. All right. A couple more, we'll get you out of here, I promise. So when you talked about roster retention when you got in, obviously Jake Warner and Andrew Sprague both went into the portal and then came back. What were those conversations like?

And how much of it was just trying to figure out with all of the guys, just trying to figure out who you were. Yeah. And I, you know, the way that the, college football set up. I don't blame those two for going in, you know, uh, at all. Um, what I do appreciate and I told them and actually Jake's dad flew up, uh, and met with me as well as Andrew's parents flew over, um, to sit down and meet. And what I do appreciate is they gave me an opportunity to kind of sell my vision, almost like a situation where I'm recruiting

them like they were back in high school, um, where, hey, here's what kind of here's what I'm all about. And the big message to them was, you know, I'm saying a lot of things right now. But, you know, I had to, and I am still in the process of convincing them that everything I'm saying is going to be backed up with my actions and more. It's not just, hey, let's get you out of the portal and everything's good. It's there's a commitment on my end to make sure that I'm doing my part because they are, you know, that room, not just those two that you mentioned, but there's a lot of really talented. kids in that room. And so they want to, you know, my impression of them right now is they want to be great. They want to be pushed. And it's my job to make sure that I do that. And so with those two kids specifically, it really was a situation of you're almost treating it as they're coming out

of high school. Here's, you know, here are my goals for all the offense alignment. Here is what, you know, my track record has been in terms of developing kids, you know, Andrew being a tackle, Jake being an inside guy. Here's, here's, you know, what, what, uh, what I've done. And, and in fact, they actually both, uh, to their credit asked for my players, some of my players at Utah's phone numbers to go ahead and see if what I'm telling them, you know, in the, you know, my meeting room, uh, at Utah, or I'm sorry, at Michigan matches what I did at Utah. So I had three or four of the guys, including Garrett Bowles, actually got on the phone. I know with Jake for sure to let them know what their experience was with me when I was their position coach at Utah.

And so they were really diligent about going through the decision of what they felt was best for them. And I am biased, obviously, but I think they made the right decision. And I think they're going to be really successful. say that again. One more for you, and then I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll end it whenever you're, whenever you're, whenever you're done. Uh, I mean, my last one's be pretty simple. Tony's Pacos, Jackie's Depot or, or, uh, Rudy's.

I got it. This is the, the hard hitting question I got to ask. Well, they're different. I would say Jackie's Depot because one's in Maui, and that's where I'm from. I know they have Tony Pacos, like, they do have that now. Yeah, there is. Yeah, there is, but still Jackie's Depot is the original. that's where I went in high school. So Jackie's.

I love it. All right. Last thing I'm going to get you out on, being a Northwest Ohio guy, you, we all, all three of us were born right in the epicenter of the Michigan, Ohio State rivalry. What are your earliest impressions of that rivalry? What do you remember about growing up? Because, you know, like, we'd go to school in Miami and like there's a Michigan Ohio State day. And, you know, half the kids are wearing Michigan clothing, half are wearing Ohio State. What are your first memories maybe and just your impression of that rivalry? It's the greatest rivalry in all of sports.

It's something that goes deeper than just the 60 minutes. It's a 365 day a year level of importance. Right outside my office is a, and Chris would know this, is a big mural or several murals of the game. So it's more than just one game, on the schedule. And so, you know, and I've never been a part of it. I'm not going to pretend that I am or have been. But what I do know is how important it is to the fan base, how important it is to the alumni. And I'm excited to be a part of it. I mean, it's, like I said, it's, you know, you got the

Red Sox, Yankees and all, you can go through each sport and think of the greatest, you know, rivalries, but growing up in where we did, this is the biggest rivalry in all of sports, not college football, but all of sports. And so to be a part of it is me thinking about it. And, you know, I look forward to getting down there, you know, whatever that day is, the last Saturday of the regular season and experiencing it. But again, it's more than just those 60 minutes. to mean so much to the alumni, to the season ticket holders that have been, you know, I actually talked to Coach Robinson today, Coach, Mr. Robinson. Yeah.

And I did. He actually called me, and I didn't, anyway, that's a whole side deal. But even he brought it up, and I've talked to him probably in, honest of goodness, 15 years. And that, again, is just an example of how important that game is. Yeah, Jim Robinson, the longtime basketball coach at Mollmi. I was actually at his house probably two weeks ago and just saw him. It was so good to see him.

I know he's very proud to see all the MaMee guys that are getting big time jobs and hanging around. And it's very, very cool. And he's still got a memory sharp as attack. He does. Which is awesome. Which is awesome. So, Jim, listen, I really appreciate you doing this. I know Worm does as well.

Thank you so much. And go blue. Go blue. All right. We will say, everybody. Yeah, you take care. That's Jim Harding, who in my mind, Worm is the best offensive line coach in America.

I said it on Twitter before he was even hired. I said Jim Harding is the best offensive line coach in America. And I have obviously followed his career forever because, like I said, he is a MoMA guy. And I grew up watching him play. And he's a University of Toledo Hall of Famer. And somebody I think is going to be really, really good at the University of Michigan. And his track record shows that he's going to develop guys,

and he's going to put him in the NFL. And that's all you can really ask for as a coach. Yeah, I mean, we talked about it a couple shows ago. Maybe it was just the stability that I think coach, Coach Whit and his staff's going to bring it. It seems like Coach Harding is about as cool as a cucumber as it can get. I'm sure he gets pretty riled up in meetings on the football field. But in terms of how he thinks about the game of football,

it seems like he's going to bring a lot of wisdom and, and knowledge to this to this offensive line room. And I'm excited because we saw this young group take steps throughout the year. And to have a guy like him continuing to develop these guys. I'm really excited about that for this young group. Yeah, I'm super excited. I think, I think it, there were so many interesting things in there that he said that I think are enlightening. His conversations with Sprague and Guarnara, guys who went into the portal and decided to come back.

and the fact that he has them calling former Utah offensive linemen. And he even said, like, listen, I have to, I have to uphold my end of the bargain. I have to sell myself and my vision and all these things. Like, he's not, he's not taking this for granted that, like, they're just going to come back. Like, he's, he's going and putting in the work and getting these guys, uh, who want to be at Michigan. And I think that that was really cool and kind of enlightening. And it's a, it kind of tells you a lot about the state of college football.

and how these things are going and how different it is. But I thought that was very interesting. Yeah, I mean, even just going back to the time I was playing, there's talking with guys now and there's stories of people, you know, blocking guys from wanting to transfer or not having that opportunity to be recruited. You know, if I would have told Coach Mason, hey, I'm looking to transfer. I love Coach Madison. And I think he loves me too.

But like, he would have been like, good luck. You know, maybe, maybe, you know, I'll see you when I see you. But in terms of, you know, Coach Harding, and that's how it probably is with everybody, but going in and having to kind of show them who he is as a person as a coach, I think says a lot, because I think a lot of people could be maybe jaded

or feel like they're too good to have to recruit somebody that's already at the school. And especially if they're thinking of leaving, you know, it's like maybe it's best that you leave and kind of say, but to see him and kind of walk through that process with us, I think was important for not just me to understand the state of recruiting

as it is now, but, you know, maybe there's a recruit watching this or there's a parent that's going to watch this and be like, okay, this guy seems to not just care about the dollar signs and what this player can do for you, but the development and what he can actually do for a player, I think is important as well. And he also said, like, I don't blame those guys for getting into the portal with the state of college football. He's like, I don't blame them for going into the portal. And there's so many, you know, there's so many people that are that are kind of jaded by what the, by what the portal is. NIL and all these things. But like he was totally open. Like, hey, listen, man, it's, you know, you got to do what you got to do. It's whatever's best for you.

And I love that. I think, I think especially too, because he just said they had one transfer, you know, in the last three years, which, you know, is unheard of, I think, in terms of, especially a big group like the offensive line, you're carrying probably 20, 30 guys in that room. And for him to only have one transfer and for him to have that perspective now at Michigan is, hey, you got to do what you got to do. I think says a lot about him as a coach and as a person.

Yeah. All right. Let's wrap this thing up here, Worm. The guys right now, is they're going through workouts, getting ready for spring ball. What is the player perspective right now of where things are in the calendar as they start looking forward to spring ball? Yeah. I mean, it's a, it happens fast in college, especially if you go far. You have a late bowl game like Michigan did with a New Year 6 bowl.

But I can just remember going back to when Harbaugh first came in. and kind of be unknown, but also being excited about that opportunity. We went five and seven, so we didn't have a bowl game. So, I mean, we had, you know, all of winter breakoff almost a month before we got back into workouts. So we were excited for that. I know these guys are excited, too. But spring ball is a place where guys are going to find out, you know, who Coach Witt is. They're going to find out what these players are about.

And there's probably going to be some guys that transfer after spring ball, too. And that's just a matter of fact of what it is in college football. But I know these guys are. excited. They're excited to get back to work, get back together, and continue to grow because there were flashes last year of some really good things. And with this new coaching staff, I know they're looking to extract all that excellence that they can out of these players because they have the talent. It's just moving forward with what they have and continue to build it and win a lot of football games. Absolutely. Absolutely. We're looking forward to it. Special thanks to

Coach Harding for hopping on with us. Always good to have another Northwest Ohio guy joining the pod. I always say everything has a way of getting back to Northwest Ohio and Toledo. There's always a connection. And once again, we prove that here today. Listen, it is the off season. So episodes will be coming out differently or sparsely. We'll do it kind of when we feel like it. Like it is what it is.

So we appreciate everybody joining us. Make sure you share all these clips. And we'll get all these things out. So hopefully we keep growing this fan base and keep having these conversations. Thanks a lot. Worm, that was fun. Absolutely. Go blue. Go blue.