Blue By Ninety - Star of Netflix's Sign Stealer | USA Today's Isaiah Hole joins to talk Connor Stalions Documentary

Episode Date: August 27, 2024

Isaiah Hole of Locked On Wolverines and USA Today's Wolverines Wire joins to talk about his role in the brand-new Netflix documentary, Untold: Sign Stealer. Sign Stealer takes an in-depth look at former Michigan staffer Connor Stalions and his role in the advanced-scouting scandal and where that NCAA investigation may have started. Hint: down south. Follow Isaiah at @isaiahhole on X and check out the links below to see all of Isaiah's content. Locked On Wolverines:    / @lockedonwolverines   USA Today Wolverines Wire: wolverineswire.usatoday.com

All right. Welcome back to Blue by 90. I'm Justin joined by Tanner today, and we've got another special guest here. Our friend Isaiah Hull from Lockdown Wolverines. Isaiah, appreciate you joining us today, man. Of course. My pleasure. I mean, I'm amazed that this is the first time, you know, we've known each other for years and I know we're doing it. We've worked together in multiple facets I was gonna say we've worked together in a lot of different ways with a lot of different things um but uh you definitely are are one of our favorites uh out on the Michigan beat so appreciate you joining for sure and hey we've we've got football this week so there's been a lot of talk i i tweeted it out last night like i can't wait for football to actually be on in a michigan uniform so we can stop talking about all the stuff

that's gone on this season including the notice of allegations that came out on sunday and everything so i'm just we'll talk a little bit about that here but You don't want to get into this new rumor set up on a Texas board about it involving a big mob and all of these different – I did see you – I saw you quote tweet it, and it was – go ahead. Go ahead with what it was because it's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. I actually want to just go in and read part of it because it is, it is every single like fever dream rumor that rival fans have had is like included in this. And it's amazing. So it says I've been hearing a bit of everything from post-season bands, vacated wins over multiple seasons, huge financial penalties,

strip titles, scholarship reductions, show causes for multiple coaches, including for the head coach, et cetera. Who knows for sure, but here's what we do know. They are considered repeat offenders on a number of these charges, like recruiting violations. I'd go try to cover up 52 text messages from investigators. There's some very credible gambling issues they have to deal with which then leads to wire fraud so i don't know but i can tell you it's much worse than they

had on usc who got hit fairly hard osu and other big 10 schools want blood because of michigan's previous penalties so on so forth uh continues j harbaugh is the one who introduced the big scheme to a big michigan booster who funded the operation. Now, if you think of how sophisticated the sign-stealing op was and you start relating it to gambling on games by big boosters, it gets very serious. And then there's an add-on here. It says, the money trail also leads to big money laundering scheme out of Detroit, which is where the feds got involved in all of this. It's the type where people end up in bags. You want this to stop? It's only type where people end up in bags. It's you want this to stop. It's,

it's only getting better where we are an inch away from like the plot of the next mission impossible movie here, which is very rich coming from Texas fans. Like as if the state of Texas has, it has their fair share of fraudulent activities among, you know, various different Enron comes to, comes to mind and it's just rich coming from them.

They're the cleanest program in NCAA football history. So I, you know, Every program is the cleanest aside from the ones that you hate. Right. Everyone cheats with Michigan. That's still in my head. Yeah. I mean, Michigan is pretty clean compared to a lot of others but it's you know like in general it's college football you know it is an inherently dirty sport like at its core from the inception from getting ringers to play back in the late 1800s and early

1900s there have been nefarious acts going on all across college football. So it's very funny to see people clutch their pearls as we've lost Justin on the video, unfortunately. But it's always interesting to see people get up in arms over this stuff when it's like, and I don't even know all this. And I say, you've got a better idea than me, but I can only imagine what goes on in this sport 365 days a year because it's the most absurd thing and that's why we all love it i think justin just wanted to recuse himself ultimately but uh it's uh he's like i don't i'm here i think but you're here you're here on audio we have you on audio but um i mean it's just funny like when it made it into john u bacon's book that Clemson offered for Sean Gary, a hundred thousand dollars a year.

And it, and that was a rumor that I had heard back the day that he signed before he signed even, you know, on signing day and no one bat an eye at it. And it's just like, Oh, that silly Clemson, they're out there doing what they're doing. So it's, it's just funny. And it's, I mean, I don't love conflict in general. It's as a, as a someone who was very much a Christian and was raised in like Christian

schools and the churches and everything. Like I, I only like conflict when it's necessary. Right. Like I won't shy away from it but I don't love it you know and so when you see people kind of cheering on this stuff yeah it's kind of like no can we just end this but at the same time when you've got this type of material to work with it's kind of like you know what I'm not mad at it you know you're you're coming up with these things next it's going to be like well you know how long before the president of the united states ends up getting included in like this sign stealing scheme rumor mill that has been going on like it's we're an inch away from it

being like you don't understand there was this big war between putin and biden and uh biden directed jim harbaugh, you know, like it's going to end up getting to that point. I mean, Gerald Ford, Michigan along, right. So how deep does it truly run Isaiah? That's what the people want to know. There's a pit somewhere, I think in the state of Washington, that's like, it's like a bottomless pit. Like it goes like miles down. I think it's probably deeper than that.

What's in that pit and what don't we know about it? That's the big thing. What are they hiding from us? You know what? I bet if we needed to, we could get with Buckeye Scoop and he would get to the bottom of it right after he cheats in fantasy football and whatever other things that he does. But he will find it and figure it out.

He's already done it, really. I mean, he's just waiting for the powers that be in the NCAA to start releasing these things. So we will play football on Saturday, despite what a lot of people are talking about, that the death penalty is coming any day now for Michigan football. But before Saturday, there is a documentary coming out on Netflix you know the death penalty is coming any day now for for michigan football um but before saturday there is a documentary coming out on netflix about our friend connor stallions uh and it is confirmed

that you are in said documentary um so i wanted to talk a little bit about that i know you and i have talked a little bit about uh behind the scenes about some of that stuff and um i i guess what is the general gist of this documentary that's coming out and and how is it going to paint michigan in your eyes the general gist is this is finally connor stallions his voice is going to be heard by people other than those who know him personally for the first time. And you're going to get to hear his side of the story.

It doesn't go unchecked. This isn't Swamp Kings. It isn't a scenario where it's just like, well, that's good enough for me. But you're going to get his side of the story. And when you think about the fact that it's only really been like outlets, like, you know, hours that, and then you can maybe include like Rich Eisen

pushing back on the narrative that's been set up from the beginning from the NCAA. So this is the first time that we're really seeing the other side from like kind of a bigger national perspective. So I think that that's that's mostly what you're going to get. I think Michigan fans will really like it if they, you know, at this point, if they haven't watched already. I mean, it's it's it doesn't really tell you as one of the things that Connor often said to me before I saw it was. I don't think like people are necessarily going to learn anything new if you've been paying attention especially michigan fans um but it does you know there is a little bit of the balance and you're going to hear some of the things that uh

maybe not quite to the same level as uh president gerald ford rose from the grave to collude with uh with jim Harbaugh to create the greatest operation in mankind in sign stealing. But you don't quite get that, you know. But you do get a little bit of the counter-narrative in there. But ultimately, I think it makes Michigan look good. And I think Connor comes across as likable in it. Maybe a bit football-obsessed, but obsessed but i mean who in college football isn't

you know well i guess there's a few lane kiffin's probably not that football obsessed but right you know like generally big time college football everyone involved is pretty you know like that's their life then that's their livelihood and that's the thing that they care about the most and you kind of see a little bit more of what into it i it doesn't necessarily fully exonerate michigan um but it and it does it does above connor you know certainly but um it doesn't uh necessarily you don't walk away from it being like nothing happened it's just kind of you have to decide what that ncaa bylaw 1161 you know was it violated and a lot of people believe it was and they kind of make the argument somewhat that it wasn't at least through connor and his lawyers but you just see this whole story and i think what's fun about it

is it's not only do you get to like learn about his childhood and certain things like that, but it, it, it takes place in the backdrop of the 2023 season. So you kind of get to relive that a little bit, but certainly, I mean, some of the rumors out there are, are they, they're given a little bit more than a wink and a nod. So I think that that part's fun too. So it's it's definitely a must watch, I think for college football fans certainly for michigan fans without question and uh it will be uh i would imagine it's going to be watched by everybody at this point not the good news is so sarah saw it yesterday with me she she knows

nothing about football she's been on the sidelines with me before she still doesn't know what a touchdown is and yet she still walked away and said that was thoroughly enjoyable let me just respond to isaiah real quick in my my thoughts there isaiah is i don't think that there are any rational michigan fans out there that are like michigan didn't do anything wrong at all right like I think that most rational average Michigan fans now there might be some some crazies for sure there's crazies in every facet of life but I think most Michigan fans are are sitting here being like all right were there some rules at the very least bent bent bent to a 90-degree angle, right? Or like taken from, you know, from zero to 100, right?

That's probably what happened here. Also, at the same time, was this story completely blown out of proportion? And was it just completely misguided by the media? Also, yes. So I think is that kind of what you're trying to say where it's like you're michigan's not going to believe not going to be exonerated there we're not going to paint connor stallions as completely innocent or michigan is completely innocent but what it is going to do is shed some light on the situation as a whole and maybe bring it back to earth in terms of here's what really happened and how far it really went i do believe that that's i say i

do believe as if i haven't seen the thing four times but uh it is that is really it and um i mean how much will those outside of the rival fan bases take a step back and say, like, oh, OK, I think that will remain to be seen. You know, we'll find that out. But certainly, like, you're going to at least understand what's a little bit more about sign stealing. They could have gone deeper and you'll find out a little bit about the NCAA's process, like getting to see an NCAA investigation actually happening in process, like an actual interview. That's something that we've never seen before. That said, I mean, there's parts that I know probably should have been included that weren't. I could not speak to uh Netflix and its uh decision making as far as like what parts were included but it also kind of lets you know like college

football is dirtier than people want to think you know in the sense of like they really lead you to believe like there's other nefarious things that were surrounding this and which is something I've been saying from the beginning and it's it's no secret now at this point that I've been talking, uh, obviously to multiple people, but to Connor Stallions throughout this entire process, the only one that was at least for a couple of months. And, um, it's, you know, there were a lot of things where it was like, okay, how, how did this investigation start to begin with? And it, a lot of people are like, you know, think that it's like the, you know, the Houston Astros on steroids and all of these things. And it's kind of like,

like, well, first you have to understand what sign stealers do. Secondly is Connor, the only one that was out there doing this. And they'll lead you down some different paths in this. So I think it will certainly change the hearts and minds of some people. It will harden the hearts and minds of rival fans who will certainly decry it as propaganda and all of these different things. Never mind that the director of this was a uh someone who had no affiliation to michigan or connor he's played football at kansas uh but um and there's national writers in here and all of that but um i think it's uh it's certainly going to have an impact

one way or the other uh and i think the timing of it also with the NOA coming in, you know, you get you Netflix announces that this is coming out. And then the NCAA drops the NOA draft, which is never really a thing. Right. Like you often don't are talking about an NOA draft. And then they you get 36 hours from the release of this and then they in the fastest fashion ever go go from draft to final product and issue that to Michigan that's not a coincidence they certainly want to be ahead of the narrative so I'm curious to see just kind of if people can see through that more after watching this well Isaiah I was going to ask too you know are we just going to get everything leaked beforehand and just know this entire process inside and out from the ncaa's

perspective because it's just it's like clockwork at this point you know i'm surprised it wasn't a particular person at espn that that released it um or broke the news um But it just, I don't, how can they continue to break their own rules time after time after time again? You know what, they respect the integrity of the process. They said that yesterday. And you know, I'm going to take them at their word. It's an organization that's always been above board, never has had any agendas. They never turn a blind eye towards anything, right? They really are all about the student athlete and player safety and all of those things. And, you know, they just really care and love about the integrity of the game.

And so I think the leaks were all, you know, any leaks that happened, you know, that was for the good of the game uh essentially you know and uh the good of the process you have to respect the you have to break the integrity of the process to respect the integrity of the process so uh yeah i think i think we've got to be getting past leaks to some point because this is kind of wrapping it up but um i'm i'm just excited for just the actual leak of the noa because you you see all of these fun uh twitter accounts that the one thing about elon musk taking over twitter and having the for you page on twitter is like i see accounts that i never would have seen otherwise and i see them daily it's the worst buckeye scoop msu daily all of these and and it's the

worst but it's also the best and just you know they didn't release the they didn't leak the no actual noa because what's in it's 10 times worse it's like bro that's not how that works like just use a moment of logic on top of this like like the fact that that's just not true. So yeah, NCAA is awesome. That's to summarize my point. And I think most people are in agreement. It's just a vital organization that's needed in the state of college football right now.

And we just defer to our overlords to tell us what's next. So I think one question i want to want to ask you too is this is you know whether it's part of the documentary or just an overall bigger question is like okay you see people people that you definitely have like a peek behind the curtains of what college athletics is like, right? I have a little bit of that too. I know, you know, Tanner a little bit as well and just the people that we know. And to your point from earlier, like it's not all about these kids and all rainbows and everything that the NCAA would like you to think, right? And so my question to you is where does the sign stealing saga, where does that

land in terms of what, like how dirty is that compared to other things, the other things that other programs are doing out there, whether it be in in recruiting whether it be in tampering whether it be in just you know whatever it is right where do you see this stack up against other things um you know similar to the clemson thing with rashaun gary that you mentioned where is this at uh it's kind of hard to quantify because i guess it's like what are what is every program doing most every program has a sign stealer um and michigan didn't for the longest time and really this operation uh i'm not talking about connor is a vast network i'm just meaning the operation of having a sign stealer uh didn't exist in the first several years of jim harba, but in Connor, it just, uh, this is something I'm talking about on my podcast as well. Like I just so happened to be on the flight down

to, uh, Orlando for the citrus bowl in 2019. Uh, Connor was on my flight cause he flew, he flew in for the holidays and he left a day late so he could spend time with his family and our flight got delayed. So at that time that time i heard like his frustrations as someone who had stolen signs at at navy to like the fact that you know michigan wasn't doing that michigan you know wasn't changing up their signs they weren't making it difficult for other teams to steal their signs. And that's really defensively in particular where Michigan kind of got got. If you're in a situation like that Michigan was in at that time with Don Brown, he was the one signaling things in. He didn't have a lot of signals. He never changed things up.

And your defense from a schematic standpoint is relatively simple as his was then suddenly it's kind of like it's a massive advantage if you're another team um if if you are have a lot a little bit more complexity to things especially from a schematic standpoint then it's not necessarily um i think the thing about it is is that you still have to defend these plays one way or the other right like if you're if you're sign stealing on off you know defensively to to for the sake of your defense of another team's offense you still have to be able to stop the thing that's coming right like how many times had you seen in particularly urban myers ohio state before ryan david came the uh the offensive coordinator it was like they were

just running the same arc read play over and over again you knew what was coming and you just couldn't stop it michigan in 2021 against ohio state that's the irony of like kind of their complaining you knew what michigan was running pretty much every play on the set in the second half. You knew where the ball was going. You knew what gap it was going to. You still have to be able to stop it. So because of that, I think it has a different varying degree. It matters a lot if you are very simplistic in your schematic design, as in the opponents,

if you're very simplistic as far as that's concerned, it can matter a lot, but probably not as much as it matters about getting a couple of five-star recruits that you weren't otherwise going to get, right? Because you win with players. And yes, you have to develop and all of these things, but if you were on your own going to get like 10 four stars and 14 three stars,

but instead you ended up getting three five stars and 24 stars on one three star, I mean, that's a much bigger difference than sign stealing. And so I think like when it comes to, I mean, even with recruiting violations, it's interesting because like giving a guy a shirt, which is one of the things that's like Michigan's accused of here. That, you know, that does that compared to giving a guy a bag of cash, which is long been the thing or what NIL, like the difference between what NIL was supposed to be. And obviously, you know what it was supposed to be. And obviously, you know what it's supposed to be, you know, Justin, but like the difference between what it's supposed to be and what it kind of has become like, that's that, that, you know, if, if you're, if you're operating with this, like, yeah, NIL, here's a hundred thousand dollars,

or here's a, now it's actually, that's like a low end, like here's a million bucks, you know, just keep doing what you're doing. You know, like that's, that plays a much bigger factor because if you have like a game changer, you know, you know, a guy that, you know, some, let me put it this way. People love to, uh, to act with the aftermath of the game against TCU. Like, because Sonny Dyke said, Oh, we knew,

you know, we changed our signs, LOL. It didn't like their signs were still figured out in that game. Right. Jesse Minter had things dialed up in that game. There were so many times that Max Duggan was halfway to the ground and he got rid of the football ends up in Quentin Johnson's hands touchdown, right?

Like you still have to be able to execute. And the better players you have one way or the other, I mean, Max Duggan wasn't like a five-star, but the better players you have, that's going to play a much bigger difference. So I think that's the best way that I can put that. So I wanted to make this point real quick. So Isaiah, it sounds like we've seen the before and after 2021 graphic at Najum. Shout out Trent A. Jones.

I loved his edit on that graphic. But it sounds like Michigan really just got modern. They went from Don Brown running man 90% of the time, and he's the one signaling in the calls. There's only so many things you can do with your hands, you know, with signaling and coverages. So they went to be a little bit more diverse in their signs and their coverages. And the fact that they had an NFL defensive coordinator,

now head coach, and then another NFL defensive coordinator, it seems like they just leveled the field and then they won the championship. So that's just interesting to think about it from that perspective. Yeah. I wrote a long piece on it because people like, you know, what changed between 2020 and 2021? I'm like, well, they broomed the entire defensive staff. They broomed half of the offensive staff.

They brought in all of these different guys. They had a new starting quarterback that was more just took care of the football better. The offensive line took a big step up in terms of its toughness under Sharon Moore, instead of Ed Warner, Ed Warner was actually pretty good, but they took like a big step forward. You've got a,

had a defensive coordinator. Who's now an NFL head coach. Like he didn't get the NFL head coaching job because he knew other teams signs because they don't do signs in the NFL. Like maybe the scheme has a little something to do with it. He was running a scheme at Michigan that was, that obviously was led by Wink Martindale is the now the defensive coordinator at the time in coming out of 2020,

Wink Martindale was considered to be the best defensive coordinator in college football. So you basically had a confluence of players who were able to run schemes that were better suited for the defense, for their skillset, an offense that finally had like an actual identity, the quarterback that wasn't injured like Shea Patterson was in 2019. And like a coaching staff that just was a lot more diverse and good at what they did. There were a ton of changes. And on top of it, you had players that were high-end players that were sick of losing.

Aiden Hutchinson ends up being the number two pick. If it was all because of the signs, he would be struggling in the NFL right now, which he's not. So, I mean, there's just plenty of evidence that goes beyond anecdotal that kind of shows you what that the changes that like, yeah, sure. Sign stealing was part of it. Modernizing was part of it, but so were like 18 other things. I, I agree. I mean, there, there's just a lot more to everything than, than just, just this. Although of course, you course, our rivals want to hyper-focus on this. So, Isaiah, I know you got to go. So I appreciate you for jumping on with us here quickly.

And I'm looking forward to seeing your beautiful face on the Netflix stock tomorrow too. It was awesome getting to just break down the entire roster of the team, really just delving into the football position by position. I think I shed a lot of light on that, and I think we are all a lot smarter. I can't believe that you leaked the starting quarterback, Isaiah. That is so bold of you, and we appreciate it. Who would have thought that Kenneth Grant was switching over

from defensive tackle to be the guy throwing the football around? But you know what? We've seen him move. Hard to take down. We have. I like it. I like it. Well, we'll have you out again soon where we actually can talk about some football because football is happening this Saturday here.

But we know you got to run, so we appreciate you. Isaiah Holt, tell them real quick where everybody can find you and go read your stuff. WrittenWord is at wolverineswire.usatoday.com. I'm literally the only one there now. It's just me. Anything you get there is pretty much me. Some AI things are written, I guess. Not AI,

but outside outlets, I guess. Lockdown Wolverines podcast, part of the Lockdown Podcast Network. Awesome, man. Thank you so much for coming on.