Blue By Ninety - "The Game" recap, current state of the Michigan Football Program, and projections for the 2020 season.

Episode Date: December 2, 2019

Listen to our thoughts on the 56-27 loss to Ohio State, the state of the Michigan program, and the projection for the post season and beyond.

Welcome to Blue by 90, your Michigan football podcast. We are three dudes who talk maize and blue. I'm Kalen, joined by Nate and Jack. Heyo. And unfortunately we're here today to go over Michigan's loss to Ohio State, final score 56-27. And I don't know guys, at this point I'm getting kind of used to it, which is not a good thing. Jack, I know you were at the game, so let me know what your take is here. I'm so mad. We just, it's, I feel bad for Shea Patterson

because he's been getting shit all year long. In the last few games of the season, he is balling out of control. And our receivers that we've thought all year are NFL caliber receivers shit the bed on. And not only was it them, we're just making bonehead plays on frigging fourth downs, hitting guys out of bounds when we're already down, just not helping our case. I mean, I don't know.

So many things. It's bad. Yeah. Okay. Well, Nate, what do you got? It's kind of one of those things I'm used to it now, right? It's been since, it's like 2001. They've dominated when they got Jim Trestle.

This feels like a new, like, it's like the 20-year drought or something like that. It just feels awful. Just critical mistakes gave them chances. Like if they just, you know, for instance, like Khaliq Hudson. Dude, he's been doing that all season, right? You should be knowing. And you're right by the ball, right? What's the thing that they tell you as a defensive lineman?

Look at the ball. Don't think about the count or any of that. Just watch the ball.'t think about the count or any of that just watch the ball jumps off sides and it then they end up scoring a touchdown big plays defensive line could not was getting manhandled um but there were some positives too i felt like shea actually did a great job the first half and then i think a lot of his incompletions the second were partly drop balls. And, you know, I was just kind of disappointed to see that happen. But honestly, I'm kind of numb to it. It doesn't even, it's like, you're just used to it, right? You're just used to it. I was more hurt last year because I really thought we had an opportunity to win that game. Yeah.

So, you know. Well, let's try to dive in here a little bit. I feel like, for one, we should divide this game into two halves, right? Because it really is a tale of two different games almost. So let's divide it into first quarter and second, third, and fourth quarter. Well, let's divide it into two halves. And then let's look at first half offense here, right? First half offense.

I don't know about you guys, but I was going like, this is why we hired Gattis. And I feel so confident in this guy now. Even though we lost this game. I mean, just looking at the first half, I guess. Gattis' offense was rolling. Shea playing lights out. I was really happy. Defensive side of the

ball, I was more like, okay, we're getting pushed around. We can't seem to contain Dobbins, but I feel so confident in our offense that we can play in a shootout at this point, right? How were you guys feeling first half, offense, defense? Do you want to go, Jared?

Yeah. I mean, offense, I thought we were going to be able to hang in it. Just, I mean, like I said, Shea was playing well. I mean, once we got in the red zone and we fumbled the ball, like if we couldn't play perfect, and that's the reason I'm so frustrated. Once we got in the red zone and we fumbled the ball, if we couldn't play perfect, and that's the reason I'm so upset. If we played well and didn't make mistakes, we had every opportunity to stay in this game. But we started with that, we fumbled in the red zone,

and then it just kind of snowballed from there, and it just went downhill. So, I mean, other than that, I think Shea played really well. I thought the play calling throughout the game was solid, and we had opportunities. It's just wide receivers were dropping the ball. Haskins on that wildcat where he could have followed Bredesen in a wide-open hole. He could have had a freaking touchdown right there.

But he runs to the left and follows Ben Mace. I mean, I'm not in the game. I'm not playing. But it's just like you see these things that could have been. I was listening in the game. I'm not playing. But it's just like you see these things that could have been. I was listening to In the Trenches, and John Jansen asked him specifically about that play. He was like, what about that fourth down play in the wildcat? Like, how did you feel about that play?

And he was like, I just made a mistake, and it was on me. I thought Haskins, though, besides that one play, actually did pretty well. He had a couple big touchdown runs. He had the two-point conversion. He had a couple stiff arms. Things that I thought that he has really developed. Even late in the game, he was running for extra yards after contact, pulling guys. So I was not mad at Haskins, even though he botched that one play.

I was like, you know what? He's in the game, and he's really putting effort. And he was averaging 6.5 yards a carry. I mean, again, I'm annoyed and I'm mad about the game, but Haskins, I'm not going to blame it on that one play. That's another thing that stood out to me. I mean, it's on our receivers.

If anything, I'm blaming anything that's on our receivers. I'm pissed off about it. I just don't like doing Wildcat in 4th and 1. That's just my opinion. It worked on a couple two-point conversions, but you just tell them, hey, we're running the ball. It's ridiculous.

We went to that thing with Devin Gardner, and that's exactly what he said. If you're going to run the Wildcat, you have to throw the ball at some point, because otherwise you're just signaling what you're going to do. That's what I was thinking. This is the perfect time

to at least try to pass it so they think about it. If you're not signaling what you're going to do. And that's what I was thinking. I was like, this is the perfect time to at least try to pass it so they think about it. If you're not going to pass it at all, what's the point? Shea can do that. Shea can run it behind somebody. Yeah, exactly. Why put a quarterback draw? Why not?

100%. I agree with you guys. Okay, so first half of the game, it sounds like generally we were kind of pleased, right, with what we were seeing on offense. Defense was struggling. Nate, I don't know if you have any input on first half defense. But second half, second half, I felt like the wheels started falling off, right?

Shea is still trying to ball out in the third quarter. And DPJ, two drops. Ronnie, drop. Nico, drop, right? Stuff like that. Now, Nico, I'm like, all right, he's getting covered by Jeff Okuda. Big time DB. I get it.

He's on lockdown. But the one that he dropped was right there. I mean, it was right there. Bad guy. We're trying to defend him because we love Nico. But there's no excuse for that play. But I'm also trying to think, like, I'm sure there's a lot of people going, why weren't we throwing it up to Nico all game?

He was on lockdown by the best DB in the nation in college football or whatever. Let's back off of those ideas. But the defensive line all game just getting absolutely bullied.

One thing I noticed was it's like we didn't have a big d tackle to fill in some of those gaps who's just an anchor and you can't move them or you're struggling to move them right there's other times i saw they had like three down linemen and i'm just like this is not gonna work because then you have these guards who are just gonna pretty much go like okay i'm just gonna up, take a linebacker, and then here's three, five, nine yards. You know, like it was the defensive line really struggled. And then the errors on top, especially with McGrone making that late hit

was pretty pathetic. And then the, like you even like, when, it was interesting, when he made that hit, everybody in the stands was just like, come on, dude. Like, usually, you know, the fan base will go like, oh, that's a BS call rep. And everybody just went like, oh, dude. Like, it's so blatant, right?

Yeah, I think, honestly, I don't know what's going through some of the players' minds on that, but I think honestly I don't know what's going through some of the players' minds on that. But I think the players have to know, like, okay, there's all this talk. Like, it's a rivalry game. We don't like you. You don't like us. But it's to the point now where you've got to know, like, these guys are good. Let's stop the talking.

Let's just play on the field. Let's play a great game of football and let all that behind us so we can actually give ourselves a shot to win the game. I think, honestly, the offense to me, when I look at the total game, yeah, they struggled in the second half, but they put up 27 points on this Ohio State offense, which to me is a pretty positive thing because they have not done that all year. No other team has done that. No other team has done that.

And they stopped Chase Young. He was a non-factor in the game, and that's really positive. I think he only had two pressures or something all game, which is huge. Now, I think we were doing that with double teams, chip blocks from either the tight end or the running back, different ways and different movements to try to confuse him and leave him off balance and things like that, and running the ball in the opposite direction. Now, what that also did was that ate up other guys and allowed other Ohio State players to shine, right?

So you saw the defensive end on the other side of the line see his most sacks for the year. Yeah, but it wasn't like I feel like anybody on their defense particularly shined. I mean, I think if you don't do that stuff, then Chase Young's going to be a monster. And hit Shea, and then there's going to be a fumble or something. So I thought they did a great job. I think if you can't hold the defense, if you, like, holding an offense to 30 points is, you should always shoot for, okay, if we hold them to 21 points, that will at least allow our offense to get some points on the board. But they literally, like, doubled that, almost tripled it.

Right. I'm with you, Nate, on this, like, I just, their defense was nothing special. I didn't see anything special from their defense. It was we made mistakes that took us out of the game. We could have scored 40, 50 points on their defense if we didn't screw up. So, I mean, their offense is exactly what we thought they were going to be, but their defense wasn't, which kind of – I just keep going back. We had so many chances to stay in this game

and have an opportunity to win. They had 396 offensive all-purpose yards. That's pretty good. Yeah. I mean, think of all the drives that ended because of mistakes or drives we could have had where we didn't have the opportunity to gain more yards. You know, it's just, there's so many, like, those could have been skyrocketed. No, yeah, that's true.

I mean, a lot of this whole game was us beating ourselves and then putting ourselves in a bad position to succeed, right? Yeah. So, it's just, it's frustrating because it feels like the same old song and dance with this team, right? If it's not one thing, it's another. So, it's frustrating and I, it's another. So it's frustrating, and I hate it, but hopefully we can come back and figure it out. So let's try to look ahead and say,

what can we actually fix to make this not happen again? What do you guys think? Beyond just the making mistakes, player execution, we can fix that. Beyond that, what do we need to do? I think it's something we can... I've never really felt like we've got to get rid of somebody to make

a change, but if you're Don Brown and you're the number... you're one of the top DCs in the country, you can't allow 62 points and then 56 points to your rival. I mean, you can't do that. And 45 to Penn State, and then a ton to Wisconsin. What are we paying him for?

And again, I love Don Brown, but where's the production? There's no production there. Yeah. You can't be the bully who beats up on the little kids. And then you can't hold your own against an actual opponent. Right. Yeah. I mean, that's...

No, I understand that perspective 100%. Nate, what do you got? Well, I know one of the reporters had asked Jim Harbaugh, is there a talent gap? Is there, like, a coaching gap? Like, what's the gap? To me, it doesn't seem like as much there a coaching gap? What's the gap? To me, it doesn't seem like as much of a coaching gap because if you really think about it, two coaches are now on Ohio State

that were on Michigan. And then we got Ed Warner who was on Ohio State. And then Don Brown and Ryan Day used to coach at the same place. Boston College or something. Yeah, and so to me, I think that it's really not a coaching gap. I think there's some player gaps, right? They obviously have some really star players on their team. And, like, I think about... And Jim can't say that in a press conference, right? Jim can't say, well, they have better players than we do. Now, I do think, like, with those players, we do have opportunities.

We have good recruiting classes. We have opportunities to make big plays. But I think we really need a couple guys who are like, that's our it guy. Every single year with Ohio State, it's like, who's our it guy? Oh, okay, we got Terrell Pryor. We got Braxton Miller. We got Maurice Claret. You know, just guys who just, like, it's like every year they got a running back, a quarterback,

and they got a couple good defensive players. Right? They have an it guy. Like, on us, for our team, I look like, okay, we have some guys who are, like, good. But, like, you know, our five stars really go, I'm like, dude, this is insane. The only player I really remember who made a huge impact on games felt like Devin Bush. That's what I was going to say, Devin Bush. Just Devin Bush.

And, you know, I even think guys like Jabril Peppers were really good. But, you know, it wasn't like he was making or breaking the game. I felt like Devin Bush, without him, you know, he was a scary guy. He was a dude. He was one of those dudes. We've had some of those guys on defense, right? We've had Peppers. We've had Bush.

We've had Rashawn Gary, where maybe his stats aren't showing it. But they had to plan for him. Yeah. So he's allowing other guys to be able to produce because he's taken double teams, whatever it may be. Even Chase Winovich. We've had all those guys on defense. We have not had that on offense.

Right. Yeah. We have not had that on offense. Yeah, so when we've given ourselves a chance by being able to stop them, think 2016, even 2017, our offense has just been non-existent, basically. Right?

Our offense in 2016 is Wilton Spate with two interceptions in the game I think it was three or whatever John O'Korn will find him that's a huge gap the quarterback gap I think Shea did a great job yesterday

I'm not taking anything off him but if you talk about the last 20 years we're talking about Braxton Miller or John Navar John Navar is my favoritexton Miller or John Navar. Braxton Miller. Yeah. John Navar is my favorite. Or Troy Smith. Troy Smith. Yes.

John Navar. Right? Who'd you take in? Take in Troy Smith. Yeah. You know? You're taking Tate Forestier or are you going to take JT Barrett? I'm taking Tate the first four games of the year, man.

He was a Heisman race. He was juking out Notre Dame guys. But yeah, I mean, you take their quarterback every single time. Yeah. Of course. I mean, we've had some great defensive players here and there, but I just don't feel like we have, besides Devin Bush, we've had a guy who's like, oh, my gosh. Like, holy crap.

Like, this guy will win us the game. Their guy, J.K. Dobbins. And you saw it as a freshman. You're like, that guy's shifty. Holy crap. You know, they got Ezekiel Elliott. Now we've got to deal with this guy another year? There's always, every time I'm watching this game, I always think,

oh, now we've got to deal with another dude for two more years. Now it's their wide receiver. What's his name? Olave. Well, Olave and Will. What's his name? I don't know. Oh, that guy you're talking about.

Hold on. I'll pull it up right now. Wilson or Rock? Garrett Wilson. Garrett Wilson. Garrett Wilson. He had three catches for 118 yards and a touchdown. He's a freshman. You just go like, oh, we've got to deal with that guy.

And that was Olave last year. Yeah, and then you go like, oh, we've got to deal with Justin Fields again. And then you start going like, oh, we're not going to win next year. Oh, we're playing away. So there's like that whole thing to it. I really do believe that there is opportunity next year to win. I'm not saying like we're incapable of winning the game, but they really have to make some strides at going after some huge, big-time players.

I'm sure they're trying, but you look at the top 100 for 2020 class, you're going like, well, you really got to... If you want to be a championship caliber program, you have to have top five recruiting classes. Yes. What does every single championship team have? They have a quarterback who can run and pass. They have a stellar running back who they can just give him 20, 30 carries a game

if they need to count on him. Right. Right? And then they have a spread offense. So there are trends that, like, I like what Jim Harbaugh Right. Right? And then they have a spread offense. So there are trends that, like, I like what Jim Harbaugh's done. Okay, we're getting a spread. Okay, we have two quarterbacks next year who can run and pass the ball and have a good arm.

We have running backs we can count on. So I do see us, like, moving in a positive trend. Right. It's just these little gaps, like our defensive line. We don't have anybody we recruited for our defensive line next year. It's a big thing. So we need to just keep getting better. I'm 100% agree with you.

And what angers me is now the narrative has turned towards, we need to get rid of Don Brown. He's given up way too many points and blah, blah, blah. And my whole thing is, what's the old saying? It's the Jimmy's and Joe's, not the X's and O's. It's the players that we have. It's our personnel that's unable to stop

fundamentally better players. That's what it is at the end of the day. We need to recruit better personnel to compete against them because they're already recruiting top of the line kind of players. We might have some of those players but to compete against them because they're already recruiting top-of-the-line kind of players, right? And we might have some of those players,

but we don't have all of them that we need to combat what they have, right? Jack, go ahead. So what – and I'm with you. I don't want to say, like, fire Don Brown, like, do anything like that, but whose responsibility is that to get those guys, right? Like, it's supposed to be Don. It's supposed to be Don. He's supposed to be recruiting these guys that we need. That's true.

If we need a D-line, he needs to recruit a D-line. This is his fourth year, right? Right. Yeah. And the whole thing, too, is, is it fourth year or third year? I think this is his fourth. And if you're going to win, you have to win. We had Durkin for one year.

Yeah. And then did we get Don right after that? Oh, that's right. We need to win at least every four years. Because then at least you can say, well, I had a really good recruiting class four years ago. I developed them, and now they're awesome. Right? And then you're kind of in a Michigan State kind of trend, right?

Yeah. Or a Wisconsin kind of trend. And who are our guys last year? We had Mozzie Smith and Chris Hinton. Those are our two D linemen, right? Yeah. Or a Wisconsin kind of trend. And who are our guys last year? We had Mozzie Smith and Chris Hinton. Those are our two D linemen, right? And they played a little yesterday. Which I feel like he did a great job recruiting those guys. Yeah.

But why are we not, we got to do that every year, right? Like, I mean. Pretty much, yeah. We have to. Yeah. It's a little bit too of, you know, based on experience. Oh, last year they destroyed us with crossing routes. So now this year we got pretty good at getting rid of some of those crossing routes.

And then... Kill us on deep ball. Yeah. Okay. Now we're going to do deep ball and run the read option with JK or whatever. And it's like we can't do it. They've got an answer for everything. Yeah.

I mean, we always have to go back to Ohio State is really, really, really good and for us to expect ourselves to beat them, it's unrealistic. It is. But the thing that makes me upset because it is unrealistic for us to expect to beat them

is we killed ourselves in that game. Yeah. And that's why it wasn't close. It's bad to lose but it's even worse to lose to yourself. Right. At least if we're competing and we lose, then whatever. We competed, and I'm satisfied with that.

Maybe not everybody else is, but I'll be satisfied against that team. Right. But if we're just shooting ourselves in the foot, like play after play after play after play, that's where I get frustrated. Yeah, so I think we need to get better on the recruiting trail. We need to get better at improving our players, right? Seeing guys actually improve year to year.

And then some of that will lead to wins on the football field. Or not wins. Specifically wins against Ohio State. At least being competitive, right? I'm going to say one other thing we need to get better at. And this is something that's not player-oriented. I think we need to get better as a fan base. I watched the Auburn-Alabama game last night.

Let me tell you, there was not a lot of Alabama fans there because nobody sold their tickets to anybody who was not for Auburn. People need to just go, not for Auburn. Yeah. Right? People need to just go like, look it. I know we're going up against, you know, Goliath, but we need to make sure that we're not selling our tickets, we're supporting our team. I'm so tired of seeing Ohio State fans just – there must have been 30,000 fans there.

I was in the stadium, and everywhere I looked, there was red. I mean, they left behind me. And I was 50 rows up from the field, and the majority of what I saw was red. Yeah. And I know a lot of that is because people have disbelief, so they want to sell their tickets. But just don't do it for one year. Just go like, we're going to – there should be – It's barely a home field advantage.

And there needs to be things, too. I don't know why the athletic department doesn't go like, okay, we need to do everything we can to support these guys when it comes to things like, let's make the stadium more exciting. I love the traditions. I love the marching band. Let's make this 21st century fun for people, right?

Let's get the fireworks going. Let's get the lights going. Let's do all the stuff. Make it a show so people want to go to the game besides just the game. Yo, let's go to the game, you know? People want some more entertainment. You got to make it fun for people, right?

Let's do that. Let's add a mascot. I'll be the mascot. I'll do it. I'll dress up like a, put me whatever you want. I'll dress it up. Don't care. Don't care.

I'll go out there and I'll be screaming for Michigan, right? When people are at the game, they need to be screaming their heads off. Right? They need to be screaming their heads off and they should be just absolutely ridiculous. Ohio State fans are so ridiculous when you drive down there to Ohio. You get your fucking car keyed. Right? Like, I'm not saying we should do that.

Right. I'm not saying we should do that. I'm not saying we should do that. But they've got a different passion. Maybe get some pillows. Even that. I was telling our buddy Patty. I told him, look up Michigan's locker room.

Just Google search it. Now look at Texas' locker room. Look at Ohio State's locker room. We watched a tour. Those locker rooms are built for kids and used as a recruiting tactic to bring them to a school. We've got this old school. I mean, I understand we did the upgrade to our weight room and all that stuff, and it looks great. But you're telling me Michigan doesn't have the money to be able to build the dopest locker room in all of college football?

Jimmy could do it himself. Why are we not doing that? He's getting seven mil a year, dude. Jim could hire subcontractors to build the locker room in all of college football? Why? Jimmy could do it himself. Why are we not doing that? He's getting seven mil a year, dude. Jim could hire subcontractors to build the locker room. Why are we not trying to have the best of the best of the best in everything? Everything. That's how we compete. That's how you sell it, right?

I think there's certain things that, like, why is it that Michigan can never coordinate rows based on colors and stuff like that? We see Iowa do it. Yeah. Iowa, Penn State. Penn State, they all do it, right? Why is it that nobody's not, like, everybody, you look at Michigan stadiums, like, there's gray, blue, yellow.

It just looks like a Where's Waldo thing. Right? It's ridiculous. Like, everybody should be dressed in yellow one day. Everybody should be dressed in blue one day. You can make it different colors of blue. Like, I think there needs to be – I think you can still keep all the traditions that are so great to Michigan. But you can also upgrade things and make new traditions, right?

Let's build a deck, dude. Let's build it. Why is it that you go into the lower bowl and you're literally packed like a can of sardines? I was sitting sideways. I was standing sideways. It was ridiculous. My buddy at work, he's Korean.

We went to the soccer game this summer and he was excited. He's like, dude, this could be a huge stadium. He walks in and he's like, it's really not that big. I thought they seated like 110,000 people here. I was like, dude, this could be a huge stadium. He walks in. He's like, it's really not that big. I was like, yeah. He's just like, I thought they seated like 110,000 people here. I was like, yeah, they do, but they just all cram them.

Like, you see the seats? Like, let's make some real seats for the old people who want to actually sit down and watch the game. I'm totally fine with that. I understand my parents like to go to games. They don't want to be standing up. Yeah. But let's take some seats out of the lower bowl. Let's build a deck.

Let's make the noise. Let's make this jumping. You want to win the game. You can't do it by just being the same, right? Yeah. Michigan, I mean, they have a massive checkbook, basically. And they can do all these things. And then they choose to do very bizarre things that are inconsequential to recruiting or winning

or anything that actually matters, right? So I think they need to orient some of their stuff towards the things you're saying. Some of it I don't think is going to happen for a long time. I think they need to focus on getting Wi-Fi in the stadium before they start building that. Just things like that, dude. Little things, right? People go like, I don't want to go to the games because I don't have Wi-Fi. Just things like that, dude. Little things. Yeah. Right? People go like, I don't want to go to the games

because I don't have Wi-Fi. Solve the problem then. Give them their freaking Wi-Fi. Some of it's easy. I mean, okay, here's another thing we can discuss. Justin Fields, after the game, said, I think we just take the rivalry more seriously than they do. Chuck Winston said the same thing.

You think that's true to that? There has to be. Yeah. I mean, even hearing Urban Meyer talk about it, and the way you were saying it, I mean, I'm saying it all season. Nate says things, I don't agree with him right away,

but they come to the light, and I'm like, you know, you've been right all along. Where he's saying, like, you know, Ohio State could lose to Michigan and win a national title, and they're all, like, they take it so seriously down there that it just ruins their entire season. Where for us, yeah, it ruins our season.

Maybe that's just the fans, but it's something in that program where they don't take it as seriously as Ohio State does, and it's showing. I mean, it's 20 years, and we've beat them twice. When he said that, I hated to hear that, but I was like, there has to be some truth to it, man. Urban Meyer's saying, like, I have a coach that only watches Michigan film all year. Or they have, like, the Michigan drills, every practice where they play against Michigan. He's like, I'll check in with that coach and I'll see what they're doing.

I'm like, dude, now, maybe we do that. And I just don't know doing it. I'm like, dude, now, maybe we do that, and I just don't know about it. Maybe we do, yeah. Like, I mean, what reminded me, the only thing I can think of in Michigan's history where they did something similar was when Bo Schembechler put up, like, 59 or something on their jerseys or practice jerseys. Dude, they should have their practice jerseys have 62 on the back and 56 on the front. Yeah. And they should deal with that every year and it was really frustrating to me because i love a lot of the players but like when you're

posting stuff on instagram after like look at dude it's like conor mcgregor when he loses a fight to mayweather or like you know it's like you you can't just say you can't just start talking after you you've been talking and then all of a sudden you lose and then you're gonna come out and go like oh yeah you know we're you can't do it it's like dude i saw like players post stuff that other people's like oh this is that's my guy it just seemed really like selfish oh i was like you guys lost collectively as a team and then you're posting stuff like about yourself yeah i'm like you should all know like dude this game is more than just yourself. It's about you guys. And you can be the team that sets the trend right. Here's the thing I think is a great selling point to a lot of recruits. Look it, we've messed up. We've been a program that has not been able to get our stuff right since 2001. right? But you can be the class that changes everything. You can be the class that people look back on and go, the 1969 class. And people go like, that class was legendary, right?

You can be that team, right? And you guys need to believe in yourselves to actually think that it's possible, right? And don't be posting anything on Instagram going like, look, we messed up. Next year, we're coming for we messed up. Next year, we're coming for them. Next year, we're not going to get blown out. I can say if the team comes out, makes it a close game, like the 2016 game, I can say,

look, man, that team was balling. But these last two years with this type of talent and you guys don't come up, you don't show up, dropping balls, making mistakes. It's crazy. That's on you, man.

And you got to take that for what it is. Yeah. And that taste is going to be in your mouth for 51 weeks until you get a chance to come back next year and hopefully redeem yourself, right?

Yeah. So it's one of those things where it sticks with you and it's not easy. Yeah, I mean, I just... But you just have to feel the fire. Yeah, exactly. You know, get better.

Do what you have to do so you don't have to live with that. So you can be that team that you're saying that sets the trend moving forward. That, hey, this is a rivalry. You know, it's not just a beat down every year.

I texted you guys after the game. I was like, if this was going to be like every year, let's just play in week one and get it out of the way. Then we don't have to worry about it. Yeah. Because I'm sick of it.

To the point where I'm like, I don't even want to play this game anymore. Because it's so embarrassing and it's so terrible for the program. Because everybody gets their hypes up so much that this is going to be a year and they lose again. It might just be better to pull a Notre Dame, take a 10-year break, and just go like, we'll see you in 10 years. Hopefully things will balance out. Yeah, right then.

I said that to somebody earlier today or somebody at work, and I'm 100% for it. I'm sick of being embarrassed every year where they take the game seriously and we don't, and it shows. I mean, if we're not going to take it seriously, those guys don't deserve to play Ohio State for that opportunity. Yeah. Here's an interesting question, I guess. At what point does a rivalry stop being a rivalry?

Has that ever happened to any other team where maybe they had some sort of rivalry, somebody just dominated, and then they just went like, eh, we're done? I mean, that's what I'm curious about. I feel like it's got to be getting to that point. There's rivalries where I see in-state rivals will always be in-state rivals because there's just so many people in that area who are from, you went to different schools. That will always be a thing

but you know, I watched Oklahoma State, Oklahoma last night I'm like, dude, there's no way the OK State fans know that they're going to win this game. Honestly, to the point it's been so bad the last 20 years where people start to question is this really the best?

People are saying the Iron Bowl is way better and honestly, they're kind of right because guess what? Their fans care more. Look at the game last night. It was insane. It was still intense even when Alabama was winning all these championships. They still won games.

Here's a stat for how bad it can get, right? Florida-Kentucky is a rivalry game, evidently. Kentucky was on a 28-game losing streak from 1987 to 2014. Wow. And it can get that bad with this game. It can be 30 years where you don't win. That's pretty bad.

Oh, man. So, I mean, we're getting ahead of ourselves, right? Technically, last time we won was 2011. And that was a fluky... Like, they were 6-6 that year. Like, we were lucky. Hey, a win's a win. I mean, believe me, I'll take it. I'll take it. We were at that game. It was pretty great.

Yeah. I mean, so we're really only eight years behind, not 28 years. Yeah. So, I mean, we might be getting bent out of shape for no reason. But still, we're coming up on 10 years here. And to be honest, it's not looking too great for next year. No. And so, yeah.

Can I say something, though? I don't want the fan base to like try and like jump ship like this is what you we have coaches

the last thing you want is things to start getting out of hand you want to keep the consistency going with the coaches I think that there are some

a lot of positive stuff that happened this season right the team did get better. Gattis did get better at play calling. There's a lot of positive things. I want them to keep doing it and don't

jump train because this is an absolute mountain that they have to climb. You can't just... But people climb mountains. So it can happen. I'm not trying to get my hopes up, but I'm just saying, you know, it looks hard. It's tough. It's going to take a lot of work, but it can happen, right?

And that's what the thing is with this game. People said, like, it can happen. You can win the game. Yeah. Right? So maybe next year it's like they can start to go like, yeah, we can actually win. Yeah. Right?

I don't know. There's still hope, so I don't want it to be like, I don't want people to go like, fire hardballs. It's like, dude, shut up. Like, you don't know what you're talking about. Yeah. He doesn't want to against Ohio State. It's like, dude, there is some things. Like, the brand.

Like, if that was Alabama and they were number one, people would be like, we're not going to win. Yeah. Yeah. But there's this whole thing like the brand somehow. Look at, dude, like the brand, Michigan brand. Like, it's all great. But really at the end of the day, it's these players versus those players

and these coaches versus those coaches. Let them battle it out, right? And I know there's – but like if that was any number one team that we were going to play, right, the expectation to win is obviously there. But the – to be let down and feel like you've been betrayed or something, and just whining like a baby that we lost a game to, there's also that. I don't know. I have mixed feelings about it.

Well, the first step towards building up after this loss and moving on and coming back to win next year is the bowl game. If we can come out in this bowl game and play really well, it can set a good precedent for next year, right? I thought you were about to say, if we can go out and play Florida again. God, we can play Florida again. I think you make a good point.

No, but based on where I was looking at the bowl game projections, where I mostly see is the holiday bowl. Yeah, that's what I've been seeing a lot. And so it's – I've also seen the quick blame bowl, which is in Detroit, and I would be okay with that. Dude. Play in Boston College. I'll take a W, man.

We just need a win. We just need a W. We just need a win. Because, I mean, honestly, like, I agree with what you're saying. Like, if we, you know, go out and bowl game, dominate, puts our program in the right direction. But also, it's like, we have a lot of guys that are going to be gone next year, right? Plus, it would be a bowl game win for Jim Harbaugh. That would be big.

Yeah, because we haven't had one since Florida in 2016 here. 2015 season. Since his first year. Yeah. We're 0-4 in bowl games or whatever. But that's the other thing. A lot of the fan base has expectations that we're supposed to, this is Michigan, some sort of deity that it is,

and that we should therefore be winning 12 games a year. Like, no, no, no. Like, look at the history. Jim Harbaugh is on pace with Bo Schembechler and all these – Bo Schembechler lost, like, how many bowl games? That dude was, like, notorious for just – he had, like, seven straight bowl losses. Like, dude, what are you talking about? He's literally been the same coach we've seen.

It's just a couple games here and there, Michigan State and Ohio State, and people start throwing the flag. This is ridiculous. This shouldn't happen. It's like, dude, you've got to understand where our program was. You've got to understand the history of the program. No, I think, though, college football has become very different from what it was it was much more regional back then

and now it's become such a national kind of a sport and so if you want to compete at that national level which is what you're saying you want to do you've got to do certain things one of the things is you've got to win on the big stage one of those is versus your rivals another of those is the bowl games

so for us in our bowl game if we play, we're probably going to play some Pac-12 team, right? One Pac-12 team might make it in the playoff. Could be Utah. Could be Utah. If they beat Oregon, I think they're in. Yeah. Unless Georgia beats LSU. And if we don't play them, then Oregon would get a New Year's Six game.

And so then we'd play the third place Pac-12 team, Washington or USC. So that's kind of what we're looking at. We get to play Washington back-to-back? Yeah, because then we open. That'd be interesting. I don't know if they would go for that. I'd like to see us play USC. Yeah, so we might play USC, which we would have a real shot, honestly, I think.

I mean, I'd love to see Shea go out with a win. Yeah, me too. So if we could go out. We've talked our shit, but he fought his ass off the last three games. Yeah. Three really important games. Yeah, and plus, I mean, in the bowl game, I say let Shea play a half. Let whoever else play the second half.

Because some of those guys need some snaps. We need McCaffrey and Milton to get some snaps. He's going to be on the ball next year. Yeah, some of those. Mozzie Smith, Chris Hinton. Yeah. Those defense guys. Let them play.

But, yeah, if we can go out and play a bowl game and get a win, that would be huge momentum for our program, I feel like, moving into the offseason recruiting, then moving into next season. Any thoughts on that, bowl game, postseason play? There's one team I really don't want to see them play is Auburn. Yeah, hopefully. Because Auburn actually is pretty good, and they have a really good defensive lineman. I want to play somebody who they can, they can go like,

we can actually have a shot at beating this team. I don't want it to be like some SEC team, you know, like they put us against Florida again. I think they're pretty good. I just want to play someone who's like, we can actually win this game. That's why I think playing a Pac-12 or an ACC team would be nice. One other thing, too, is like, going off of what you said, like, I mean, how would you feel about playing auburn

before the ohio state game like before we saw that ohio state game being played if we said we're gonna play auburn in the bowl game how would you have felt about it before that um i still wouldn't want to play them no just because just because i i want them to play a team like virginia where they're like 10 and you want a cupcake i 10-3. You want a cupcake game. I want a cupcake game. I want a cupcake game. I get it, dude. Let me tell you why I want a cupcake game.

I still want us to have a game where we can play a cupcake game. If we are going to build momentum next year, playing a cupcake game isn't really going to do shit for us. Yeah, but I think if they lose the game, then people start going, well, now you didn't have a 10-win season. You've got to get rid of Harbaugh. You've got to get rid of Harbaugh, all this stuff. So I don't want that to be the narrative, right, because we know that the recruits listen to these narratives, and then they make decisions on them.

So I want them to get 10 wins so the note is positive. They can say, look, Jim Harbaugh hasn't beaten Ohio State, but he has had a lot of 10-win seasons. See, I think the Jim Harbaugh-fire-him conversation doesn't exist anymore. I think that they've doubled down so hard on him that people are like, they're not going to get rid of Jim Harbaugh. They might get rid of coordinators or other coaches, but Jim is there. I think they're pretty well cemented in that.

He would have to win three games for them to start thinking about it. I mean,'re pretty well cemented in that. He would have to win three games for them to start thinking about it. I mean, I'm with you. I think that's what they're doing, but I just don't want... I'm more worried about the recruits. We don't want that to be said. I don't want it to be said. I don't want the recruits to hear it, and I don't want them to believe it. I think...

Joel said it last year. He said, Jim Harbaugh is dangerously close to falling into a Mike Leach category. Which I kind of see starting to happen, right? Unable to beat his rival a little bit, has a down year, has an up year. You know what I mean? So, that's not

where you want to be for sure. So, that's why I think winning a bowl game is huge because it's on a national stage and it sets a precedent for next year and it lets people know like hey we're here to play and just because we lost one game doesn't define our whole program see that's why i want us to play a good team like that like auburn and have a chance to you know reset that narrative right like okay they also have a state they're

really fucking good. And now they just beat and also a very good team. Yeah. You know, like that's where I'd rather it's like, yeah, you know, like I want us to play a good team and I want us to beat them. I do still think we could. I think we do have the talent. We beat ourselves against Ohio State. You know, it was like, it looked, we were watching the team that we saw in the beginning of the year. Right. And like, you know, where not everybody was clicking, where the receivers, that we saw in the beginning of the year. In some ways, yeah. And, like, you know, where not everybody was clicking. Where the receivers, you know, in the beginning of the year, where, you know, guys we thought we could count on,

but they're just not getting the ball. Now they're getting the ball, but they're dropping passes. And Shade's doing really well. So if we play a team like Auburn, if we play anybody in the country other than Ohio State, and we can play as an entire team, I think we can beat them. But we saw that we beat ourselves, and we all can agree on that, and it's just tough. It's just tough.

It's oddly positive coming off of this loss. I know. I'm trying to reset back to reality where Ohio State's going to, like, they're just good. They're number one team. They're one of the best teams I may have ever seen in my lifetime. Yeah. So I'm just trying to go back to that and just remember that

and not go too far off the deep end because all the rest of us Michigan fans, as a fan base, you know, stuff on social media, everybody else is, and I'm trying to bring it back, but I'm also, like, so bipolar going both ways with it. That's too dead. It's tough being a Michigan fan. Well, yeah, I mean, I guess we didn't really talk about that upset, right? Auburn, Alabama.

Love to see Bama not in the playoff. Wow. I'm hoping Oklahoma does not get into the playoff. And plays. And plays Bama. Yeah. In a New Year's Six game. That would be fun.

That's what I want. Yeah. I want to see that. That Jalen matchup. Yeah. With Alabama. That would be sweet. Because he has probably a shot at beating them. He want. Yeah. I want to see that. That Jalen matchup. Yeah. With Alabama. Because he has probably a shot at beating them.

He does. Yeah. Because, I mean, Alabama will still put up like 40-some points. Yeah, but Oklahoma could as well. Yeah. Yeah, what are the rankings? Does anybody know? Or does anybody have them?

I think Utah's. AP came out. I think Utah's number five. Michigan dropped to 17, which is fair. More than fair, I think. I was thinking more like 15. I guess there's not much difference, though. So it's OSU number one, Ohio State number two.

Again, this is an AP poll. Clemson number three, Georgia number four. So Ohio State, we can safely assume, is going to win their championship, Big Ten Conference championship. Against Wisconsin, right? Yeah. Okay. Safely assume Clemson's going to win over Virginia, who I think they're playing.

Okay. It's LSU-Georgia. LSU-Georgia. So, if Georgia wins that game, LSU's not dropping out of the playoff. Basically, Georgia would probably go to number three, and then LSU would go to number four at that point, I would assume. Or maybe LSU would go to three and Georgia would stay at four. But if Georgia beats LSU in that conference title game,

they're not kicking LSU out. There's no way to kick LSU out of the playoff. Yeah, I mean, they already set a precedent that you don't have to win your conference, right? Yeah, and LSU's been so dominant all year. I guess it depends on how they lost, right? I think they can get blown out, and I think they can stay in there. If they lost like 50-0, you think they would keep them in there?

Based off of their work they did all season, yeah. And not let this Utah team in that has the same record, won their conference. But they just don't have any, like, I mean, I don't know. I just don't think Utah has enough. Utah's good wins don't stack up to LSU's good wins. Or even Oklahoma. I think Oklahoma would get in. I don't know.

Because if LSU lost, that would be very chaotic for all of these teams. Right. Because I don't think you can put OU over Utah. Who has Utah lost to? USC. Yeah. Right? Early in the season.

Yeah. I think that they would more than likely put in Oklahoma just because they had a big win against Oklahoma State. So you guys think LSU could get kicked out? If they got absolutely destroyed. Well, I think... I just think there's no way. I think they'd feel a lot of pressure too,

but I don't think they could. Because if their loss was so bad that it was like, you know, worse than Utah's loss to USC or worse than Oklahoma's loss earlier in the season. Yeah. You know what I mean?

Then they would be like, all right, how do these games match up, blah, blah, blah. I'm assuming that all those three teams went out. Who gets the fourth spot? I think Oklahoma would get it just because, over Utah, because it's easier to sell to people to watch the game. You have Jalen Hurst versus Ohio State. So I think Utah, I don't think anybody's going to watch Utah play. Strange, too.

Another one is Baylor, right? Which is wrong. Because Baylor and Oklahoma are going to play each other in the Pac-12 or Big 12 championship game, right? Do you think they have a shot? Because Baylor's only loss is to Oklahoma, right? So if they beat Oklahoma in a championship game, now they're 12-1, won their conference. And beat the team they lost. Yeah, they beat the team they lost to.

And beat the team they lost to. I mean, that's where I think they could jump into that. I would say that gives them a good shot. Because if you avenge a loss, that's saying a lot more than, you know. This is what makes me sad as a Michigan fan, because I feel like if we were to play Auburn, I'd be like, oh, that'd be a tough game. If we were to play Baylor, I'd be like, we could beat them.

Yeah. We could beat Baylor. Yeah, no, yeah. And I feel like you always get this one team who waltzes into the championship game. Or to a playoff. You know, it's like, one year it's like, you know. Usually Clemson. Well, Clemson obviously gets a walk-in, but they're still, like, a good team.

Yeah, but they're a good team. But it's like, Washington, it's like, they really did not deserve to play Alabama. Yeah, yeah. Like, I don't know, even Michigan State. Or Ohio State. I think it was three years in a row where teams got blown out in the semifinal. It's rough. Yeah, so, I mean, that's kind of how it's looking, at least in the top six or whatever we were looking at.

Yeah, it's too bad Michigan's not up there. I know. One day. I feel like I'm a Cubs fan pretty much. The curse. It's like, okay, if Cubs fans went through it, then... Maybe I'll get a championship in my lifetime. It's even worse than that. I literally think like... If the Cubs fans went through it, then... Maybe I'll get a championship in my lifetime. Maybe I'll... This is...

It's even worse than that. I literally think, like... Dude, it's not worse than a Cubs fan, dude. They just went for 100 years. It wasn't what I'm saying. Like, it's just worse the fact that, like, not even just championship. I just hope that I get to see them beat Ohio State before I die. That's why I'm like, you know...

Yeah. I'm like, dude, hopefully I don't get a car accident or something like that. Hopefully I can make it to next year to see them win. That's why it's been so long. On a bright note for Michigan sports, basketball team might be ranked number one. Ranked number one? Yeah. Did you watch the games at all?

I watched the games. They've got the best resume right now out of any team in college basketball. And they play Louisville, who will probably be ranked number one when we play them. But Michigan might be top five. Going from unranked to top five. We beat Louisville. We're number one team in the country. Dude, Juwan was...

We're a basketball school. Let's go. Dude, Michigan's a basketball school now. It really is. It really is. What happened? I love it. I love it.

No, it's awesome. I mean, those wins over UNC and Gonzaga I was like whoa holy shit where did this come from yeah

first couple Eli Brooks is a somebody we can rely on now first couple I was like Jesus this guy yeah

I'm like closing my eyes I'm like oh he's making them oh okay yeah man no that's great I love seeing it and you see Juwan

dancing with his team afterwards. Oh, yeah. It was a cabbage patch. Yeah. Oh, man. That's awesome. Well, we probably won't have another podcast for a few weeks. A few weeks, yeah.

Until we figure out who we're playing in the bowl game. Yeah, I think that's what we'll do, right? You guys want to take a couple weeks off and come back? Yeah. Maybe we'll all read. Maybe like a bowl game preview in a post game or something. Maybe we'll all read Basketball for Dummies and become a Michigan basketball podcast.

Don't set your hopes on that, but we might. Who knows. Alright, well, thanks for checking us out. Check us out on YouTube, Facebook, Instagram, Apple Podcasts. Spotify. Spotify. Go Blue.

Go Blue.