Blurry Creatures - EP: 100 Sheol & The Son of Man with Doug Van Dorn

Episode Date: April 19, 2022

For our 100th episode author and pastor Doug Van Dorn returns to tell the most blurry story of all. How exactly does Jesus walk through walls? What kind of resurrected body does he have? How is this story different from other "hero" stories? This episode gets into the weeds on how the ancients viewed the human dead, ghosts, and the spirits of other beings. We unpack the locale and ancient understanding of Sheol and Abraham's bosom. Did God become a man to gain access to Sheol to reclaim humanity from the clutches of death and Satan? Thank you to everyone for going on this journey with us through our first 100 episodes. We will continue to explore these, and other mysteries with you. A special thanks to our members, many of whom are featured cameos on this special milestone episode.  Guest: douglasvandorn.com Intro song: Marvel 83 "In A Different Time" contact: [e-mail] blurrycreatures.com Socials instagram.com/blurrycreatures facebook.com/blurrycreatures twitter.com/blurrycreatures Music Kyle Monroe: tinytaperoom.com Aaron Green: https://www.instagram.com/aaronkgreen/ Mastering: ironwingstudios.com Outro Song: TimeCop1983: timecop1983.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Luke so often, people email us and they have this story. They're out in their woods and they're looking in the bushes and they got, what's that? And when you are pouring your dog food and your dog's bowl, that's the last thing you want to say. What is that? What is the stuff coming out of this bag? You know, I don't think a lot of us think about maybe what we feed our dogs. And that's why we partner with rough greens. Most of us would love to have our dogs, you know, live as long as possible. I mean, I just lost my dog in December. And I would have just, I would have loved more time with Carl. And one of the things you can do to get more time with your dog is to feed them better. Dog owners don't usually realize that live nutrients, that their dog is needs to thrive or missing from the food. You just talked about. What is that, right? That's where Rough Green comes in. It's America's number one dog supplement that you sprinkle on top of their food. It's packed with prebiotics, enzymes, omega oils, and 20 live vitamins and mineral support digestion, energy and overall health from the inside out. It's all natural made in the USA and thousands of dogs are feeling younger, more energetic and healthier than they have in years. That's why we love it.

I'm giving it to our two dogs. You know, I've got older dogs, Nate, as I said. And so, you know, since they've been getting rough greens with their food, I've noticed they have more energy. their joints hurt less, they're older. I mean, they were talking 12 and 13 years old. And Rough Green's really made a difference in their energy levels and the pep in their step. So if you want to do what we did, you can get a free jumpstart trial bag for your dog today. Just cover the shipping. Go to roughgreens.com and use discount code blurry.

That's RUFFF greens.com discount code blurry. Rough Greens makes any dog food better. Jesus is saying you were going to be with me in the place of paradise, but Jesus is going down to shield, the place of the dead, the place where everybody goes when they die. And if Jesus is a human, he has to go there too, not to be punished, but in his case, to storm the gates of hell with the proclamation that he's just conquered death. And he's going to lead a train of captives in his way because he ascends out of there. He's going to empty that part of it.

He's going to empty that part of it. 100 episodes of blurry creatures. Who'd have thought that it would become what it's become? For episode 100, I thought it'd be kind of cool to start it off with my very first podcast episode that I did when I was just two years old. This is from 1983, almost exactly 39 years ago. And here I am with my grandpa. That it's April the 24th?

Wow. 1983? Yeah, it is. Sacramento. Let me hear you sing. That's wild. Being a two-year-old with my grandpa talking and singing songs. And the topic is Jesus.

It's funny how some things you have figured out at a young age. But we appreciate you guys being on this blurry journey with us from episode one to now. We started with Bigfoot. And we've been weaving in and out of the Old Testament and stories from you guys. And in this episode, we're going to talk about Jesus. And I know that for a lot of people, it immediately makes them feel uncomfortable. But we hope you stick with us in this one.

We have a conversation with Doug Van Dorn about Jesus that is in the blurry sphere, and I feel is one of the most different conversations I've had about the topic. Growing up in the church, you know, you hear a lot about it, but sometimes you just need to ask questions with all this new information, this new knowledge, this experience of the journey that the podcast is taking us on. So here we are, episode 100. We're going to sprinkle in some testimonies from you

guys that listen to the show, just some thoughts from members who listen to the show, what the show is meant to you, in and out of our conversation with Doug Van Dorn. So thank you so much from the bottom of our hearts for listening to this podcast, sharing this podcast, being here on this whole ride with us. Episode 100. If you want to become a member, bluergreeches.com slash members, support what we're doing and help us make more content. Let's get Doug and let's start this one. The history of our earth is so different from what we can imagine. The Smithsonian that if they found out about a large skeleton somewhere was to go get it. I'm going to assume at least one person is right because if one person's right to bust the

paradigm, it all goes back to the fallen chair. And the problem with the modern day church, They have a very truncated view of the supernatural. This backdrop that's just pregnant with all kinds of meaning associated with this Mount Hermon event. And this guy defects from the kingdom. That's a big deal. I still think about our first episode a lot. I still think about a lot of stuff you said on our podcast. I love it.

Dude. Thanks for conspiracy theory. What do you think now that you know the show a little bit more, what do you think about? I don't know if can you call you? Is this a blurry creature? Well, that's why I just, you know, I presented the idea to you guys to see what you think about it. And I don't know if he had a chance to look at the article that I sent. But yeah, I mean, he's walking on the water and walking through walls and they're scared that he's a ghost.

What would you call that? Right. It's not a blurry creature. We do need something epic for episode 100. Well, and it's Easter time, too. So if you talk about the resurrection. So let me tell you what I was thinking about for this and see what you guys think about it for that. So it's all started like, I don't know, 10 years ago, I was preaching through John and I came across this article where the scholar was talking about Christ, his resurrected body coming to people, you know, and how it's like similar to other dead creatures in the ancient world, but not identical to any of them.

So she talks about translated morals like Enoch and ghosts and heroes, which would include, I think, reference. I like this already. And then so I thought that was pretty cool. And then that could lead into a discussion about like the dead in the Old Testament. The difference between human dead and non-human dead. Because there's quite a bit to say there. And I don't know how much you guys have talked about that at all. Actually, you know, from there you talk about Abraham's bosom and shield and all that kind of stuff. And I love talking about that. So there's plenty of stuff we could talk about. I wish I would have read the articles. I could ask better questions. But right. We're just going to be real dumb this time. So just have to bear with us. Normally pretty dumb. At least we prep, so we're on the scale of dumbness. We're like, we prepped a little bit, so we kind of know what. Well, no, I mean, I have a, I had a good idea of like an intro in my mind.

You know, I think the thing that we do on Bulari creatures is we sort of come out all these biblical ideas, but it doesn't trigger anybody for some reason. I don't know, the way that we go about it, because we use a vehicle of creatures, it doesn't seem like it's like, oh, I'm tuning into the Bible study podcast. This is, but this is crazy how you say this. Someone sent us a message about, gosh, Nate, it was in our email. They wanted to, like, to talk about what happens when people die and what, what is about paradise. We could cover a lot of that.

That's, because I want to understand, like, if you were talking about, like, what people thought about, like, dead creatures and bodies and people. And what happens like when we talks about the zombie or more or less zombies walking around? And we can get to that, the resurrection. I probably referenced that a hundred times in the show, Nate. Yeah. But we haven't really ever talked about it. There's lots of stuff.

And I think that's the thing is that if we're going to, I mean, we've been building this case. We've been talking about all the stories of the ancient times. This is this story that everything kind of is leading up to, the crescendo. It kind of is. The moment. We got to do something big for a hundred, right? Yeah. Are you starting the show?

Let's start the show. So welcome back, Doug. Welcome back to Blurry Creatures. You and Jed are always sharing our memes on Facebook, which just makes my heart sore when the guests get into the memes. That's my favorite part of Blurry Creatures. But we love having you on the show. I've been censored so many times on Facebook that I have like three followers now.

I am one of them. I just love it. Yeah. We'll have to add you to the members-only group, and you can just razz, razz our members. Yeah. But we had you on early on, and the blurry creatures,

when Luke and I were just getting started. And here we are closing in on 100 episodes, Luke. Little did we know, we didn't know anything. Still don't really. But it just gets weirder and weirder. I mean, you got to do something, you got to do something big for episode 100. And then Doug sends us this email.

It says, hey, how about the blurriest creature of them all? Right? Well, he hinted at it being the pluriest creature. of them all. Could it be the blurgiest creature of them all? Could it be? Yeah. I like the way you phrase that because some people are like, how dare you? But then again, like, if you really think about like what blurry creatures has become, what we're really talking about, the name itself, when I started, I had the idea and I hit up Luke, it's become a way bigger genre or in a way bigger descriptor, I guess, of what I thought. I had this really small, just like cryptic creatures,

But it's because there's so much more to that, I guess, is what I'm trying to say. It's more a vision into the unknown. I like that it's expanded a lot. So welcome back, Doug. Always great to have you be on your show. Yeah. We're always like to be on your show, Doug. It's good to be here.

Not quite that. I love it. Yeah. You know, so many things go back to Genesis on the show. And it's all foreshadowing. We talked a lot about the transfiguration. We've talked a lot about corrupted creation. We talked about all the things.

in between, but we never really actually sat down and said, what about Jesus himself? And are we allowed to talk about that topic on blurry creatures, Luke? And, well, I mean, listen, like all the, there's a lot of weird stuff that happened around. I mean, we were talking before we started rolling just about walking on water and transfiguration. And, you know, this podcast has really become about asking the hard questions about the weird stuff in the world and the weird stuff in the Bible because we could try to filter it back through the biblical lens, right? A lot of weird stuff in there. Yeah.

And a lot of uncomfortable things for the modern American Western church to try to dance around. Yeah. And I think the podcast gives us this weird vehicle where we've laid down this foundation of weird. And now we can have a conversation about Jesus in that vein. So it feels like fresh to me because I've never looked at it from Genesis until now in the way I do after producing the podcast, interviewing hundreds of people. It's changed my

perspective so dramatically that I'm excited to have this conversation with you, Doug, because I feel like the narrative is just so much grander, and there's so much more going on there. And the way I read the Bible is now is like, I believe it all. And I believe it probably happened mostly like it says it did, instead of this metaphorical way that we were kind of taught to read it or whatever, or just, you know, ruined by modern culture and scientism and all the modern day religions that we subscribe to more so than the way the ancients wrote it and read it. Yeah, and enlightenment and all the above, right? So. Sometimes it feels like when you get that phone bill, it's like the crash site document. You can't

read it. There's a bunch of numbers, random fees, vague language, stuff's blacked out. You're like, what am I actually paying for? I don't know about you, but I like keeping my money where I can see it. I like to be simple. I like to be easy. I like to be easy. easy. I'm going to be throwing away money on big wireless carriers. You too can say goodbye to overpaying for wireless, get a simple bill. That's where Mintmobile comes in. So stop overpaying for wireless, just because that's how it's always been. That's what you do. Mint Mobile offers premium wireless service for a fraction of what the big carriers charge. And you get to keep your phone number, get to keep your coverage, most importantly. And it runs on the nation's largest 5G network. So the question becomes, why has everyone been acting

like this has to be expensive? It doesn't have to be. Dr. Judd Burton's out there. Dial up blurry every day giving us the scoop on what's going on in the academic world and the ancient world on mint mobile loud and clear on the job sites way out in the middle of nowhere texas and if you want to save money just like the illustrious dr judd burton switch to mint mobile if you like your money say where it is mintmobiles for you shop plans at mintmobile dot com slash blurry that's mintmobile.com slash blurry upfront payment of 45 dollars for three month five gigabyte plan required equivalent to 15 a month new customer offer for first three months only then full price plan options available taxes and He's extra Seaman Mobile for details.

So what's your idea is, Doug, for how this topic fits into the blurry creatures space? Well, so I sent you guys a message. For whatever reason, I was thinking about a sermon that I had done many years ago on John's Gospel at the very end. When Jesus has been raised from the dead and the disciples are in the room and the doors are locked. and all of a sudden he appears, and that happens not once, but twice. And when they see him, in most of the early Greek manuscripts, it says that they see a spirit, a Numa. But there's one instance where it says that they see basically a phantom or a ghost. And so that takes you back to earlier in his ministry, Jesus walking on the water.

The disciples saw him walking on the sea in Matthew's Gospel and says they were terrified and said, it's a ghost, a phantasma. And they cried out in fear. And so, I mean, that's pre-res resurrected body. You guys said that you've talked about the transfiguration a lot. I'm still back in some of the earlier episodes. So I haven't got to that yet. But certainly there's some really strange things that are happening there. But again, before his resurrected body, his face is shining like the sun and his clothes become white as light. And the father's voice comes from the heaven. And again, the disciples hear this and they fall in the face and they're terrified. There's, I mean, there's other things that are happening besides those miracles. There's some really weird, almost like escape episodes where

several times they, they try to kill him. And the language is, it's always different. Like, sometimes as he hid, sometimes it's just like, he just vanished from their sight. Like, they just weren't able to do what they were trying to do because, as John says, in one point in time, it wasn't his time yet. I think about the time when Jesus is in the Garden of Gassimony right before he dies. So this is right after he asked the disciples to pray and they fall asleep three times and he gets all upset with them. And then it's time for the soldiers to come. And as soon as they come, they say, who are you after? And they say Jesus of Nazareth. And then he says, I am he. And as soon as he says that, John says that they drew back and fell to the ground. There's some really weird

things going on just with the person of Jesus. Then let alone the resurrection. And then let alone the resurrection. and walking through walls and all this kind of stuff. And it makes you think, Doug, it makes you think, too, is like, they, I mean, the disciples have the same reaction that we do now. It's a ghost, right? So this is, this isn't something that goes away. It's been here with humanity from, from the day once. So people see spiritual, whatever you want to call them, ghost spirits. And we've, we've tried to delineate the difference between those two on the show a little bit. We talked about it. So I had come across an article when I was preaching on this from the scholar who talks about Jesus resurrected body and

his appearances. And she did something I had never seen anybody do before. She compared this. She compared his resurrected body to four different types of life after death, I don't know, blurry creatures, for lack of a better word, in the ancient world. So she talks about four of them. the first one would be translated mortals. So this would be somebody like Enoch, who just says he was walking with God and then he was not, or Elijah, who's taken up to heaven in the chariot. But the Greeks and, you know, ancient cultures all had this kind of an idea of a translated immortal. So with the translated mortal, you have one feature is that they're recognizable when they reappear,

but they don't die. And the problem is Jesus died. there's some similarity and some differences. So she moves on from that to ghosts, which is a very similar idea to this, you know, the phantom thing that we just saw, you know, in fact, we talked about a ghost and ghost stories were all over the ancient world. And so you have a ghost is technically a human dead person who disappears and reappears, you know, when they want to. And they're also recognizable. And all those things are similar with what happened to Jesus. But there's a lot of differences. So Jesus talks to them, which is something forbidden in the Old Testament law. You're

not supposed to do that with a ghost. Jesus gave them information. And in some of the texts, we get this idea that a ghost is a very bad source of information. And that comes from the law of Moses as well. So that's like something that shouldn't happen. Ghosts remain in their tombs. Jesus, they said, didn't remain in his tomb. Ghosts cannot be touched, but Jesus wants them to touch him. So there's, again, there's similarities and differences with ghosts. And she moves to the idea of a heroes. Now, this is 80s, you guys, or sorry, this is the 70s, but you guys are 80s guys. So I don't know if you ever saw the movie High Plains Drifter with Clint Eastwood.

Maybe. In that movie, you know, it's the typical Eastwood movie where he's the vigilante and he goes in and in a wild west town and he takes care of business. But the very last scene is the guy's like, do I know who you are? are you so familiar to me? And he goes, you know who I am. And he takes him to a cemetery and he shows him, Marshall Jim Duncan, rest in peace. That's like the idea is that he's this dead hero who's come back to,

you know, in the ancient stories, they would come back to deliver a messenger to fight in a battle. And with the heroes, they're different than ghosts. So like they can be embraced. They can leave footprints. They can eat.

They can drink. All those kinds of things are very similar. of Jesus as well. But of course, Jesus, he doesn't remain in the grave, which a dead hero does. Somehow he comes back apart from that. And of course, a dead hero never descends into heaven, which is what the story Jesus ends up doing. And then the fourth one that she compares him to is the best, the revenants, which is basically either a zombie. It's kind of like a zombie, except for a revenant has a mind of its own and like a zombie. So you can maybe think of it more like a mummy or maybe even a vampire, probably Judd would be happy with that.

So there's ancient stories of these revenants that are really creepy. So somebody dies and then they return from the grave and they return from the grave to write some kind of a wrong or get revenge. And then they go back to the grave. It's like what in the world is this sort of a thing? Does that happen in the Bible anywhere else? So no, not technically. The only thing I've been able to find with a revenant in the Bible is almost kind of

more metaphorical or an analogy. One of the commentaries talks about the beast of revelation as some sort of a revenant rising from the abyss and coming back and then kind of going back to where it came from. Revenants are weird because they're not like ghosts that reappear and disappear. They actually stay there until their job is done. They're not taken up in heaven like Jesus was. Jesus, of course, didn't come back for revenge. So you have all these ancient stories that there's a lot of overlaps to what happens with Jesus in its resurrected body. with other things that people would have been familiar with, but there's nothing that's exactly like it.

Makes it unique among all the ancient stories of the world. Can we talk about ghosts a little bit? Just like, because Nate and I went through this in a couple episodes, and like the, this is something I have struggled with in some levels because the idea that like human spirits would linger is hard for me personally. I mean, people can make this happen, but hard for me to justify with theology with the idea that like, And this is what I want to understand the Old Testament

because perhaps it changed with Jesus because when he tells the thief today you'll be with me in paradise, you know, whether you are saved or not it seems that your spirit, your soul, your mortal, that your mortal body dies and your spirit lives on but goes goes somewhere. It doesn't linger.

You know, and I think we try to break this down in the idea that we know that the spirits of these 10% of the spirits according to Enoch of the of the giants of the Nephle remained here and those that we know as the the demonic, the demons, the disembodies,

spirits of the giants. So I can go with that. I can find and point to scriptural references, but when it comes to humans, I think I've always been like, I don't believe it that there are ghosts in the sense of being human spirits because we got to go somewhere. Dude, the stuff that people see and these experiences,

ghosts experiences now a days, I think tend to be all demonic. And if that's not right, I want to change my mind. But it's hard for me to jive. that with like people's somehow people's spirits stay here and don't end up somewhere or in front the judgment seat of Christ and then get sent somewhere and somehow they end up back here. I don't know.

Well, I think I can answer some of those questions, Luke. Some of them I struggle with trying to understand them as well. But I think there are, we can go at least in a direction that will be helpful. So in the old testament, there's two kinds of dead creatures that talks about you and that aren't animals. So you have human dead and then you have non-human dead. Okay. And these are all in the law of Moses, every one of them. So let's talk about the non-human dead first. So we go to the human dead. So a non-human dead, there are several words for these guys. You're very familiar with at least a couple of them, like the Raphaim. This is the giants, which are a lot of similarities to

the hero stories that I talked about, although I don't know how many Refi. Fai'em stories are of them coming back from the dead, but like a hero story does. But nevertheless, they were the heroes of old. And that's what Genesis. With the demigods, right? It's like Hercules. Yeah. So they're actually kind of a human dead and non-human dead hybrid, actually.

It's kind of the one that's like that. Another word that you're familiar with is Elohim. Now, an Elohim can be a lot of people don't get this because an Elheim can be either a god or god. So it could be a, you know, the watcher idea. or it can actually be a demon or it can actually be an angel or it can even be somebody like Samuel when Samuel dies and then Saul calls the Widjim Indoor to come and bring it. He says, bring up an Elohim. And or no, he says, bring up Samuel.

And then so she says, well, I'm not supposed to do that because you said, they aren't supposed to, nobody's supposed to do that and you'll kill me. He says, I promise I won't. So she says, all right. So she brings up Samuel and she says, I see an Elohim coming up. from the ground. When that happens, then, you know, I just read this story a couple days ago, and you have no hint that this is not Samuel, that this is some kind of deceptive demon, which is kind of what most people I know want to say it is. Everything about that story tells you

that this is Samuel, and including telling him that he's going to die for, you know, his sins in a couple of days in a battle. That's not something a demon would say. That's kind of the one instance where a human is called an Elohim, but the thing about that human is that he's not embodied anymore. He's died. He's gone to the other side. So those are words that are used for both human dead and non-human dead. Now, for just non-human dead, you have three main words in Hebrew. One is Shedim. So it's a word that is translated, demon. You have a word Yidioni. Most people have never heard that word before. This is a spirit with knowledge. And that will become important in a minute when I talk about the human dead. So a yiddioni is a spirit with knowledge. And this is what necromancers

and wizards and witches would try and conjure up and talk to. And then a second one that's like that is an ob. This is translated either a spirit or a demon. All those are non-human dead. They don't specify where they come from, how they got the knowledge. You know, I, I tend to think that at least many of them are dead Nephilim, the whole demon idea. But I suppose it's theoretical. There would be more than that. Other things than that. If the Bible warns you against necromancy, I mean, it's... Yeah, why warn you something that can't happen? It's the point of that.

It's giving a clue. There's things that there's a realm there. Yes, yes. So we don't necessarily have the realm defined, but it's saying don't access this realm. So it does make things very blurry. Very blurred. but I think it's more blurry to us than it would have been to a Hebrew because they actually had words to describe these things. And we don't use those words the way that they did for, I don't know whatever reason. Maybe we just don't understand it or translators don't get it or they haven't done their homework or whatever.

Do you think that's how a lot of the laws worked, though, was like, because, you know, human beings don't necessarily know why we needed laws, I think. I mean, even when growing up, I didn't understand the law. It was always this confusing debate in church, and then Jesus comes, and then he fulfills it, and it's just this. Yeah. It was always confusing. But you wonder if some of the things was just like, don't do this. I'm not going to tell you why. Just trust me, you should do this, right?

It almost feels like that sometimes. Yeah, in a lot of cases, some of those moral and ceremonial laws that they're given are directly, you know, the draft be told, don't, don't do the things that the nations around you are doing. But that's in the context of the Refayim, of the Nephilim, of the Anakim, because they're all around Israel and they're doing these things. And they're not supposed to behave like that. And especially when we get to these supernatural kinds of laws about witches and necromancy and don't try and conjure them and, you know, don't cross over. When you think about it this way, the original watch.

a rebellion was them crossing over to our turf. And really, these laws are the opposite direction. It's us crossing over into their turf. It's like there's these separate realms that are supposed to remain separate until the right time. So when we die, then we go over to that realm, we become Elohim in the sense that we're spirit beings. That's where we now reside naturally. We're no longer flesh beings until we're reunited with our bodies and the resurrection. And it's interesting you talk about the humans with knowledge, though, like wizards and sorcerers and witches would try to find somebody that had some input. Well, no, they're conjuring spirits with knowledge that are not human.

Sounds like a Ouija board or something. It does, doesn't it? Yeah. A lot of the same things going on. So there's a couple of human dead. Then we can talk more about it. I think it's important to see this. So there's a word that's a parallel with the phantasm or a ghost.

That's a word, It team. And this is, this is unquestionably means human dead in the Hebrew. I think it's used only one time in Isaiah, but it's, the context is very clear that it's human dead. And it's talking about them as real ghosts that do things that you're not supposed to do things with. And then the second group is much more common. They're called the met team. So you got met team and it team. And the met team are just essentially they're just the dead. They're probably always human dead. And the thing about them is that they don't seem to have knowledge.

So if you contact them, what are they going to tell you? And so they're actually juxtaposed with the Yiddioni. The human dead, they don't know anything versus the non-human spirits that have knowledge. Non-human spirits that have knowledge. Hey, Nate Luke. This is Alicia Nordine. I just wanted to say congratulations on the 100th episode coming up. I love you guys and I love the show.

It has really allowed me to dig deeper into the Bible and just grown my faith. Thank you. Love you guys. My name is Ashley and this podcast has exponentially grown my faith. It has confirmed things that I've always known and felt. It has opened my eyes to things that I never even imagined possible but completely makes sense and it has awakened a hunger in me that makes me just want to know more about God. I never understood how I got here. I never understood the journey that I went on. I never

understood why the Nephilim was such an impactful topic in my life and why it changed the trajectory of how I study the Bible until this show. So this show has just answered a lot of questions for me listening as an outsider to y'all's journey knowing that I went on that journey, but I just, I didn't know the wise. And so the people you've had on, the experts you've had on, it's just answered so many questions for me. And I just appreciate it. I appreciate that there's a forum out there for me for my type of mind

and that there's other people that think like me as well. That makes me feel less alone, less isolated. Anyway, I just, I pray blessings over your families, over the show, and I just, I'm looking forward to many more episodes in the future. Thanks, guys. This is a chicken sandwich from 7-Eleven. People always call me loud. And I'm like, yeah, I know.

I'm crispy. Did you expect me to whisper? If you want quiet, go eat some soup and reflect. Like, I know I'm a handful. I'm bold, I'm juicy. Throw some pickles and barbecue sauce on me, and baby, I'm a whole meal. And with seven rewards, I'm just $4. Quiet, no.

Krispy, saucy, and $4? Very. Only at 711. Valley through 62326, participating stores only while supplies lastly out for full terms. That's why I've had a hard time just blanketing demonic over these things, because sometimes people talk about hauntings in their houses, with dumb spirits. Yeah.

It's like they don't know what they're doing. Yeah. Yeah. And if they're, if they're demonic, they would have, they would be on another level above you because they would have been around for so long. They would have all this knowledge. I mean, you know, when. How does that work though?

I mean, I mean, I know. It doesn't. Before you get to the how it works, I'll, I'll just say that I really do think that ghosts, we need to understand ghosts, not as demonic entities, but as dead humans. because that's what the terms are in the Old Testament. That's what I think. And that's actually, I mean, think about it. That's what they're saying about Jesus himself.

Okay. Because they recognize him, right? And so they're like, you're a ghost. Now, how that can be, that's another question. But if we can at least understand that that's how they understood the term, then we can move forward and say, well, maybe there's some way that we can think about that. So I like it. This is what the show is about.

Like I want to break my, I want to break my brain a little bit in paradigm because it's, you know, I guess maybe this is what a lot of what we do in some ways is that it's, it's never as simple as painting things with one broad brush. It's not, it's never that simple. But I want to get into what and why.

I mean, we kind of did the why because it's, yeah, and I'll get there, but I want to, I want to know if, because we're talking about Jesus too in the, in the context.

I know we're building to that as well, but like, Nate always asks, like, you know, what did, what did, what did the rest of,

crucifixion resurrection due in the spiritual. And so my question is like the understanding in the Old Testament. So we have all these different types of spirits. The understanding when you died is different than what we understand the New Testament because something happened. Yeah, that's my view too. And so it was like Abraham's bosom and Shiel. But then Jesus is saying, changes something on the cross saying, you're going to be in paradise.

There's this, it's Eden. You get to go back to Eden now. And so I want to get there eventually. Like, what is Abraham's bosom? What is she all? Is it different now? And how did Jesus play into that? Because those things are interesting to me that Jesus would go and preach to these souls because after he dies and is resurrected, the work is complete. So there's no more preaching to be done. The preaching already happened, right? Like, so what do you mean the preaching? Like the message of salvation through

Jesus was given at the time when he did it, right? And so those didn't have the chance. And that's what I'm going to want to understand, I guess. Okay. Yeah, there's a bunch of things going on in that question. I think it's, there's a, there's a, There's not a lot more that I wanted to do with that because really what we just need to parse out what these different words are, what they mean, and what they would have understood them to mean. And then that's, I mean, that launches into all these questions quite naturally, I think. From the basic understanding is that, you know, on the show, we've, we've, we've hammered home that a disembodied spirit is a demon is a disembodied spirit. That's it. It's different than a spirit of a dead human. Yes.

Right. There are two different things. But Christians often lumped everything as demonic, and they think demon, I think, in their head. And it's like, well, I think there's, I think these are like apples and oranges. Why are human spirits still here then? Yeah, I get why you're saying we talk about disembodied demons. Usually the context of that when I talk about it is something like possession. So why does a demon possess somebody?

It's because it's been disembodied from it, you know, what it had been here. Man at the tomb, the pigs. Yep, they want a body. Yeah. You have to understand that those demons are wandering around on the earth. And I think that's a little different than what's going on with a ghost. Now, I can't speak with a lot of authority to what's happening with a ghost. I've had people, good friends that I know kind of talk about, almost like a time displacement sort of thing with a ghost. So if you go to the Old Testament, I think the good place, the good place to start is what happened to people when they died, not just humans, when they died in the Old Testament. People don't get this, but every single person that died went to the place called the Sheel, everybody. David's son, Jacob talks about this, and obviously unbelievers go there as well. So everybody goes to Sheal. Now, what the next thing to understand is that the way that the Greek translates Sheel 100% of the time in the Septuagint is Hades. And of course, we call Hades in English hell. So guess what that means?

That means every single person in the Old Testament went to hell in the Old Testament. Everybody. Now, the problem with that is, as soon as we hear that, of course, we think in our mind, we're just thinking punishment, the place of the damned. But that wasn't the way that they thought of Hades and Sheel. They thought of it as a gigantic land that had many places that was in it. and different people went to different parts of it. So the Greeks had the idea of Elysium.

You go down the river sticks and then you come to the throne of judgment. And then Elysium is the fields of like knowing, basically sleeping or knowing nothing, which is kind of interesting with the Meteen, the idea that they don't know anything. It's like the end of gladiator, right? Walking through the field. Yeah, exactly. I mean, that's where he's going to Elysium. That's not even an 80s show.

No, but it's one of my favorite movies of all time. Because it's fantastic. It's not an 80s show. I like that. So I guess the question, Luke, the thing that bugs you by the most is there's some sort of, they're stuck. They don't fully cross over to wherever they're going. They're lingering behind. But here's the thing.

Demons linger behind. I mean, why would it make any sense? I mean, people have suggested on the show that the 10% or whatever remained just to be like, well, you know, to torture humanity because of the thing we did. We gave ourselves to these angels, so we had to, that was sort of our punishment, right? That's kind of what I've heard on the show. But they linger around here, right? They can't be redeemed as well. There's something weird into that.

Yeah, I would agree with that part of it. So I, yeah. And I think Fritz said something about fairies in the woods. They were part of this judgment and they were banished to the woods. Ferrys are demonic, right? Yeah. Well, I don't think that they were human. Yeah, but there's this idea that like sometimes these spirits are stuck here in certain places, and it gets really blurry.

Sorry. Doug, we never finished the thought, though. Like, everyone goes to sheep. Everybody goes to sheep. Everybody goes. Okay. So this is where I think that the story in Luke 16 where Jesus is talking about the rich man in Lazarus is helpful. A lot of people think that that's a parable and it has no correspondence to reality.

I actually think that the fact that he uses the name Lazarus is really interesting because there was one guy named Lazarus in John's Gospel who actually comes back from the dead. And he's the only guy that we know by name that does that. So why would he use the name Lazarus to tell this story? Whether or not it's that Lazarus or not, Jesus is picturing for us something where you've got two different kinds of people. You've got those who are saved and those who aren't. They're in the same broader place, which I would call Shiel or Hades and are a problem with either of those terms. It's divided in the way he talks about it by a chasm. The Greeks would talk about it with the lake of fire or whatever.

It doesn't matter. But they're able to have conversations with each other somehow, see each other, recognize each other. One is burning. The other is in what is called Abraham's bosom. Okay. Now, the thing is that another term for Abraham's bosom is paradise. So when Jesus tells the thief on the cross, today you will be with me in paradise. This actually gets confusing because there's a place in Sheel called Paradise, Abraham's bosom,

but there's also a place in heaven called Paradise. So I think what's going on is that they kind of give away what I think we'll talk about in a little bit, is that Jesus is saying, you were going to be with me in the place of paradise, but Jesus is going down to Sheel, the place of the death, the place where everybody goes when they die. And if Jesus is a human, he has to go there too, not to be punished, but in his case, to storm the gates of hell with the proclamation that he's just conquered death. And he's going to lead a train of captives in his way because he ascends out of there. He's going to empty that part of it. So question. Yeah.

Does he have to be a human to get access to that? area and that's why he became a human and that's why they had to kill him because that's how he gets down there that's how he gets down there right that's an interesting question i off top of my head i don't have a problem with that because why couldn't he just storm the gates from heaven down to hell why does he have to become a human being it's like there's this it's like a trojan horse kind of yes yes then no Nate i mean wouldn't it be more so that as as god he couldn't die and still the part of it was in the god that couldn't die not that he had to be human to go to this place. If God could be there, couldn't God be there? But Tim says that the only way that

he could give all authority on earth was becoming a human being. Yes, absolutely. Because authority, a dominion was given to Adam. Yeah. And it was taken away at the fall because of what happened. And so it had to be the second Adam that reclaims that dominion. Yeah. Sure. God's not precluded from a place that he created. No, well, the whole idea of death itself is a strange thing. So, I mean, when we die, We don't cease to exist. We go somewhere. So we can say in one sense we're immortal, but in another sense we're mortal, our bodies die. They perish.

They go into the grave. And the same thing happened with Jesus. He had a mortal body. But he didn't cease to exist or anything like that. He went somewhere. And where do you go? He went where everybody goes. And because he's the one who is going to conquer death itself, he alone has the power because he's God,

because he's, you know, obeyed all the things that he's done to go down there and take the people out of that place where everybody went who had always believed in him. So, like, I don't believe that he went down there proclaim the gospel to a bunch of people that had never heard. I believe he went down there to rescue people who had already known him and trusted him in life, like Abraham and Moses and David and all the other saints. So he gave him the good news, right? The good news is you're getting out of here. The good news is I'm here. And now I'm going to take you with me out of here. But I was just wondering if that was part of how he gained access. Yeah, I think so.

Absolutely. Gaining access not just as God, but as man as well. Yeah. Like undercover, undercover, you know. Doug, this is great. Still understand how these spirits come back. They go through the same tunnel and they go put him back up. and then they just walk around, like old Abe Lincoln walks around the White House and all the guys at Gettysburg are walking around.

If Jesus has emptied out Abraham's wisdom side or what we call paradise, and so there's no more of them there. Because, you know, the New Testament does say things, it talks about it differently. It doesn't say that when you die, you go to Sheal. It says when you die as a believer in Christ, you go to be in the presence of the Lord. Right. And so that's very obvious. The father's house are many rooms. Yeah. It's very absolutely a heavenly picture.

So I picture that place now as half empty. But the other half isn't. Because their time for judgment hasn't yet come. I think this might go back to what Nate was saying about wandering spirits. Somehow the wandering spirits, which are different than ghosts because ghosts don't really wander. They kind of stay in one place. Like they're in the house or they're around the grave or whatever case is. I don't necessarily understand that.

But it's different than a wandering spirit that's seeking whom. it may go in and possess or whatever, which is, that's demon. What's up, blurry bros? This is Cameron from Indiana. Nate, Luke, just wanted to tell you guys that listening to your show has been a real blessing. This journey you're on is real special. And just wanted to encourage you guys to keep it up. Can't wait to see what's in the future.

The truth will set you free. Hey, my name is Ed, and I love listening to the Blurry Creatures podcast. I love being a member sharing ideas with other members because it helps me know that I'm not alone in my crazy, wonderful, out there, true beliefs. So thanks for keeping the show going so long, guys. Hey guys, it's Greg in South Carolina. I'm the original binge listener from back in 31 episode days, but you guys have been awesome. You've made built a great community. I've just loved getting to know the whole family and growing and blurriness.

together and growing deeper and our love of each other and our love of God and our openness to learn. So keep it up. With a lot of ghosts, can't you pray and essentially remove access? Can you pray to get rid of them? Yeah. Oh yeah. I think absolutely. I mean, even unbelievers are doing things like that. Sure, but it's just kind of weird in that context in some ways.

Like, I mean, I guess not weird that there's power in the name of Jesus. That is the most powerful that there is. but weird in the sense that like, I guess the human spirits obey and the same way the demonic obey. I'm having trouble with this. Like not that I don't believe it, it's just like I'm trying to understand

all the mechanics of it. But we won't know. You know, I don't know. We've talked about this a lot on our show because people, it does stump everyone's brains. What are the gray aliens? The way Tim Albuhrino described it and the conversations he has

and disagreements with L.A. Marzuli and stuff is this. Like, are they demonel? Are they something else? Yeah. Because Tim says, what do demons do? What is the history of demons? Demons are like insatiable.

They're like all about the flesh. But these gray aliens are described as almost robotic. They're carrying out a task. They don't exude any of the traits of demons when they're described. And it's hard to know a lot about that, but it's just you get, you know, you get stories from these people. And then the scientific studies that they've extracted information, from people. The grays don't sound like demons. They sound like something completely

different. And some of these ghost stories, they don't sound like demons. They sound like clueless spirits who don't know where they are. They don't know how they got there. They don't know where they're going and they almost need help. It feels like echoes too. Like they're just doing... Echoes, yeah. That's almost like time displacement.

Same kind of an idea. It was like Gettysburg. You people are, the Civil War guys, well, it's the example we used before. Or like Abe Lincoln, these guys, they're just doing the things they did in life. It's just like an echo. It's like they're fighting the bat, still fighting the Gettysburg battle at certain times you see them. They're still, which is just strange. Walking on the porch at the White House. I was listening to something about Abe Lincoln's ghosts and how it supposedly haunts the White

House and they see it in presidents and First Ladies and kids have seen Lincoln walking around or standing by a fire, which is all really weird. Because yeah, in the context of the way I guess the Hebrew, the ancient people classified him, it was, it doesn't. just feel like an echo and not like an intelligent like a sentient being like just sort of a weird something that didn't finish its word like a highlight reel it's just like a highlight reel it's kind of plays on a loop yeah right i mean it's strange it's very strange i can't prove this is my own theory and i'm perfectly willing to be how my mind change but because christ emptied out you know the paradise side the abraham's bosom side of that place and so that means that all who have believed in

him are now in heaven. I don't, I don't tend to believe that ghosts are going to be anything other than unbelievers who haven't yet had their final time of judgment or whatever. So we're in trouble if we see the ghost of Billy Graham. Or he is. No, I don't know. Oh, he is. Yeah, I know. So that makes you, so, so in my mind, we're down there. So Jesus is crucified. He goes down there three days. Do you think at that point he gets some sort of keys to death or some sort of transaction takes place where he gets the DNA of humanity back or something. The DNA of humanity back is an interesting idea. Why did we have to go there?

It seems like he had to go there to get us. But there was some sort of contract, it feels, and we had to go there. Human beings had to go to this place. Well, they had to go to that place because of sin, and it's the place of the dead, and it's not the eternal state. So Hades, Sheel is not the eternal state for unbelievers or believers. In fact, doesn't Jesus says that that place was created, or is that the leg of fire that was created for the devil and his angels? That's the revelation. It's created for the devil and his angels.

It just feels like it always seemed like there was some sort of transaction in my head, but I don't know if that's something. Yeah, I think the transaction is that it's not a very fair transaction. it's that Hades is you know if you personify it as an evil entity itself it has swallowed up everybody and now Jesus has come to take some of them out against against its will isn't it it's in the Bible though that like isn't it the God created the like a fire right as punishment for the rebellion and it was never meant for for humanity until humanity it was like it was it was pre-created to the creation of humanity. It had to do with judgment for rebellion against God.

And man wasn't never meant to be there, but then we had the fall of man, the sin, which then, you know, if we think about things contractually, like Nate was talking about, or we think about even like the idea of courtroom scenes like we find in, you know, in Psalms. Like there's this idea that, like, God has set things up. And although that wasn't meant for us, our punishment is a just punishment. For those who do not believe, there's just punishment for it. It's the wages of sin, right? It's the idea that, like, we weren't meant to be there.

Kind of like the prison was built. It wasn't originally built for humans. Right. But then we just got, you know. But our actions dictated that we get sent there. There was like this technicality. We ended up having to go to this place that wasn't designed for us, right? Yeah, if you think about it in terms of ownership, slavery sort of thing.

You know, Paul talks about being a slave to God or a slave to Satan. And you need to be freed from that. one of the, probably the earliest view of the atonement of Christ's death, what did it do? The earliest view was called a ransom. Yeah. Right. So that Jesus is actually ransoming people. Well, what do you need to be ransomed for?

Because you've been taken prisoner. You now belong to that entity and they need to be set free. I love it. That's the transaction. I think I was thinking about that in my mind. Yeah. I think that helps make sense of that. It was perfect because we have Easter shortly come

upon us and that's what we celebrate, right? It's the resurrection. It's like, it's the ransom. And then there's the penal substitution. I know there's a lot of stuff in the entomement. We don't have to get, we're not, right, right, have to get to exegesis here. But the original ideas I often go back to, and it seems like the earlier the idea, almost the, once you go back, you think, well, they were, they were the most accurate. I think that the ancient cosmology is the best cosmology. Whatever cosmology we have now, it's just, they just had more, multiple, the better

words, better language, better understanding. I think we're, we would be just blown away if we could sit down and have a podcast episode with an ancient Hebrew, I think, and just ask them. Yeah, talk to a, talk to Elijah about all this. Yeah. I mean, we would be like, what? The whole time. Even like Malachi or Joel, one of the minor prophets, those guys get, they get hated on. You know, it's funny. When I was first talking, thinking about this kind of stuff many years ago, it just dawned upon me for the first time in my life. I think I could finally sit down, have a taxi ride with Elijah and Moses and Jeremiah, and they could just be sitting there talking to each other. And I'll be like, I know what you're talking about. You know, like I never even understood that before. That's what this whole thing does

for you. It allows you to see things that you couldn't see before. Yeah, love it. So I guess the ransom theory is that, you know, there is this transaction, you know, Jesus goes down and takes us to a different place. And then where do we go after that? And then we go to the presence of the Lord in whatever the temporary heavenly state is kind of a kind of an opposite picture of the temporary bed state that shield. And we're no longer in shield. Yeah. Right. We're no longer in shield. We're in the presence of the Lord. And the idea seems to be, I mean, you're surrounded by a great cloud of witnesses. This is like the John, the John revelation too, right? The Sea of Glass and the and the and the Rome. This is this is where heavenly. Yeah, heavenly scenes of souls under the altar, all that kind of stuff.

This is a while. Sounds awesome. You know, a lot of people think that like this whole idea of it comes from the Apostles Creed that he, the third day, he rose from the dead. Well, right before that, he descended into hell. And a lot of people are like, they have a real problem with that. Now, I used to have a problem with that. And people try to spiritualize that too, Nate, that, oh, he suffered hell on the cross or whatever. But no, like I said, he went to the place where everybody goes. He was a human. What else is he going to do? His body stays in the grave. He, his spirit goes somewhere. Where does he go? Well, Psalm 24. This is a great one because people don't understand what this means. Lift up your heads, oh gates, and be lifted up, old ancient doors, that the king of glory may come in. And this is right of the

handles Messiah for Easter. Who is the king of glory, the Lord strong and mighty, the Lord mighty in battle. up your heads, oh gates. Lift them up, O ancient doors. That the king of glory may come in. Who's the king of glory? The Lord of host. Again, that's more army. He's the king of glory. So what are the gates? It's not that Jesus dying and going to heaven. He's a warrior. And he's going to the gates of what? He's going to the gates of hell. All kinds of material that I could give you guys to show you that. But the point is he's storming the gates of hell. He's saying, I'm here. You have to let me in because I'm the son of God. And yeah, like I think he just steals the keys at that point. He doesn't even need to be given them. He's saying, I'm here. You have to

let me in. Blurry creatures has connected me back to my faith. It's helped me stretch my mind a little bit more and it's giving me some awesome new sweet like minded friends. So thank you, Nate and Luke, for all you guys do. And thank you for our awesome blurry community. What blurry creatures means to me is community, family, growth, finally understanding the truth and knowing that there are more people out there like me that are wanting to know more and to grow in that and I'm thankful for it. Growing up in the Western Church, it always felt like there was little gaps or holes kind of in my knowledge when it came to knowledge of God or the Bible.

And I have to admit that listening to blurry creatures has really kind of propelled me forward on that journey to plug those holes, to look at scripture from the lens of how it was intended, not necessarily through a cultural lens that's easy for us to understand or to rationalize. A hundred episodes. Nate and Luke, congratulations. I know you guys have had, you've had some rough and bumpy times, and that just makes you all the more real and better to listen to. I search for L.A. Marzuli, and I found you guys, and I have listened to every episode. least three times, you have transformed and reaffirmed my faith as a believer, and I thank you. It's so much more epic.

It's so much more epic. He defeats, he wins, and he takes, and he, the spoils of his, kicks the door down. Victory, the spoils are the keys. It's the authority. Well, it's just like the theology needs to be explained more like a Marvel movie for people. We just don't. Totally.

And I think maybe that's how they told stories back then and parables and they knew things. I mean, when Jesus goes to Sessori of Philippi, and he says, I'm going to, build my church right here on the gates of hell. On the gates of hell, that's exactly right. Good luck. And I think the thing, too, that's awesome on our show, that we constantly go back is that there's this flip narrative, like death to life, life to death, you know?

It's like, you know, Jesus says, lose your life, and you will find it. And Satan says, get your life. And then he has the death, right? It's always this yin-yang switch. But it's weird that, like, to get, Jesus has to die, die, his death, then brings us all back to life. It's weird how that goes, and I think

in the end, obviously, Satan's going to promise us life. And ultimately, it will be death. It's just this weird, it's like you have to think opposite. Like, okay. Like, you know, like Paul says, if they knew they wouldn't have killed them. Right.

So, the whole time, it feels like there was this plan, I'm going to go down, is how it's going to unfold. And I think maybe only Jesus and his father knew. Yeah, they're the only ones that truly understood it. I mean, he's and you're telling the disciples for three years on all these different occasions about exactly what's going to happen. And they have, like they're, they're deer in the headlights, man. They have no idea what he's talking about. Let's pull this thread a little bit more because so Jesus rescues these people out, take him to paradise, his father's house,

that place where they are the believers in Christ and Christ being one. one with the father, the believers in the Father and Christ are there. Then we get back to Jesus though because he comes back. He's given this resurrected body, right? There's these different form morphologies at the very, you know, what else you want to talk about it? He's given this different form. Are we all given that different form in this place or does that happen at a certain

freaking forgive my lack of theology here? Well, I had a question about that before we got there. Okay. Just because I don't want to lose my, like where we are in the timeline. what happens to the principalities or because, you know, a lot of people speculate at that point when the transactions made, that, you know, Jesus gives all the nations back to his father. How does Shail and hell in these places relate to these other supposed lesser Elohim that were in charge of certain territories? Does hell and Shail relate to them at all? Oh, yeah.

That's a great question. It's a whole other podcast right there. You know, so I have a good friend that I don't think you guys have had. I don't know if you've had them on your show or not, Brian Gadawa, if you're coming. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So his view is that he's written a lot of books.

Yeah, he's written a lot of books. He's a kind of a, he takes semi-preterism as far as you can go. and he thinks that the watchers have all been eliminated because of this event and that the final undoing of them was 70 AD. Where I agree with him is that something very, very significant happened at that moment when he descended down there. And then you know, you kind of can't separate him when he rose from the dead proving that he has victory over life. And then when he ascended to the right hand of power, all three of those things are kind of the same, just the next step and the same. Just the next step in the chain of events. And the way I look at it is, at least for now, is that there was a binding

that took place at that moment. And so there's binding language in the Old Testament as well. In fact, there's binding language in Enoch. You know, you find that these guys were, the original watchers were bound, I think for like 70 generations or something like that. And then they will be let loose. Well, bound doesn't mean that they're completely out of the picture. It means that they're at least some of them like Azizel who was one of the chief instigators of that you know there's a whole cult to Azizel in the old testament the day of atonement is deals with Azizel so somehow this guy who's been bound is somehow still continuing things almost like he's under house arrest or something martha Stewart running her whole empire from prison and then we talked to derrick gilbert about

that a little bit about how the idea that these things can still communicate from the abyss yeah or the theory of that yeah so I'm certainly willing to entertain that that's what's happening, at least for the time being, that they've been bound to a large degree in that the gospel is very effective in doing things to stop and thwart their plans for their territories, whether or not they continue to have those territories or not. It's kind of a question for debate. I do think that there's a time that comes. We may have entered it. I don't know, where they will be. be let loose for kind of a final attack. I've kicked around the idea that maybe they've been let

loose for the last 150 years or so, you know, that they've kind of been gathering their forces. And so I don't take those numbers in Revelation and all that literally. But I think, I think all the eschatology views have this idea that there's some kind of a letting loose of Satan before the end. And then, you know, then comes the final judgment. So I don't know if that helps answer the question or it's just difficult because you just more problems we definitely think things is there's only there's only one foe and the more our show barrels on there's a lot more going on there's a lot more going on a lot more you know there is a hierarchy but there it's not just this you know good guy bad guy it's like a lot of bad guys and you know fighting with each other too yeah it's it's confusing

but I think my mind, I'm just wondering how that all fits into the story. Because it seems like, Doug, that humanity sort of wakes up from some sort of like, oh, now we can sort of continue to have Adam's dominion without all this influence from these gods. So it seems like humanity kind of goes back to being human ruled at that point. Like humans are kind of ruling over each other, whereas it felt like more like spiritual, principalities before that because, I mean, you modern day humans look back at ancient people like, they're stupid. Oh, they're worshipping these golden calves. They're idiots. No. Right, right. There was an entity in that calf, but now you don't see that, right? Well, I mean, yeah, so that's kind of what

I'm saying. When the gospel comes up a place, it tends to bind or to, uh, to thwart their activities. And so, I mean, we've been in the Western world that's been, at least in some ways, deeply influenced by that gospel. You know, you go to, you go to some of the Polynesian islands or China or India, Nepal, you know, crazy places in Africa where there's animism and stuff. They would be like, what are you talking about, Nate? See it all the time. Yeah, yeah.

No, I mean, I remember people didn't know what Jesus, they were asking people when we were on tour in Japan. They didn't even know what, like, tattoos of Jesus were on a couple people. Like, who's that? Who's that guy? You know? So, yeah, I mean, I still, I understand that, but it, it still feels like ancient civilizations operated very differently than modern, even pagan, non-Christian nations. It just seems like there was a switch that flipped.

Something changed. And I wonder. I don't disagree with that. Yeah. I don't disagree with that. It's a matter of levels to me. Yeah. You know, if they lost their power and then, like, they're kind of hanging around until the police come to a,

to arrest them, you know, you can think of it maybe that way. Yeah. I mean, well, I guess my last thought is that. Why three days? I mean, what takes three days? I suppose three is some sort of a symbolic number. So there's something going on on a bat. And there's probably a lot of symbolism that could be part of that. Three is certainly also, remember Lazarus was dead for four days. Why was that? Well, because it had to be known that he was dead. He was, his body was stinking already when he was raised from the dead. It wasn't some sort of a swooning for four days in the grave. He was dead. And Jesus was really dead. The tomb was rolled over. The Roman soldiers were guarding it with their lives. If they were to neglect that duty, they'd be put to death for it. So he comes back after that amount of time to this place for 40 days.

There's another symbolic number. Moses goes up on the mountain 40 days and four days. No, on the ark. and all kinds of like 40 days in the yeah wilderness so the 40 days he's here between pentecost or between the resurrection and pentecost he's now walking around in this resurrected body that no i do not believe that when we die we will have that resurrected body like he has but we look forward to it i think you were asking that earlier yeah right like so that's first corinthians 15 that our great hope and it's all through the apostles writings our great hope as

Christians is not that we're going to be disembodied for eternity, but that we will somehow be united with a body that is this body, but transformed. Don't ask me how in the world that could happen, but Jesus body demonstrates that because it's recognizable. It has the marks in it. God's able to reconstitute that. Even it's been blown to smotherines in a nuclear bomb. You know, you can do whatever he wants to do with it. He's not limited by that power, but that's what that's what our hope is. And it's rooted in the hope of the first fruit, which is the resurrection of Christ. Do you think that's essentially like our, our eugenic, like, form, like pre? Oh, I think it's much more.

I think it's much better than that. I don't think that we lost, I don't even know what it would mean that we lost our body, you know, that somehow it changed. Or maybe it was just more of an, well, I don't know. Yeah, I don't know either. The uncorrupted, you know. Yes. Do you think angels, when they were.

appearing during those times. Did they have those bodies too or something different? Angels are strange. Like, what were they? Were they something here on the earth before they went up there? I don't know the answer to that question. But obviously they could mate with us. Somehow they're related to us.

There's no doubt about it. They're called men. We're called men. They're not called ox. They're not called grasshoppers. Although we're called grasshoppers. Yeah. To the giants.

Well, you know, we talk about extensively. they had they had reproductive organs. Right, they're men. Yeah. So, I mean, are they, do they have, it's just, I wonder if their bodies were similar to ours, they were just smarter, basically, like an advanced. Or they've been around a lot longer. Who knows?

Doug, I want to get back to the very beginning in some ways here, like with the different ways Jesus is described. Because I think it was really interesting. Something you said earlier about how he just disappeared, and it made me, I do recognize the irony in this because we talk about Bigfoot. and Bigfoot disappearing in front of people and their experiences. But this is, so it feels sacrilegious to talk about, talk about God incarnate in those terms. But there's the similarity in the idea that they disappeared.

Like, you know, maybe tells more about Bigfoot and less about Jesus. But I don't know. Well, I think that's exactly what this scholar was doing. She just didn't use Bigfoot. That would be a modern thing that she could have used. She was using older, well-known, kind of dead coming back from the dead creatures. And I think you might have hit on it there, Luke, when you say that it's a unique event in history. So how do you communicate a unique event in history?

Well, don't you need analogies that people can put their mind to? So, you know, if you say that Jesus is dead in a known tomb, okay, well, that actually is similar to a disembodied spirit, a revenant, and a hero. But it's different from a translated mortal. Or if you say, there's an empty tomb. Okay, now it's only similar to a revenant. It's not similar to any of the other ones. Or if you say his body is taken to heaven. Well, now the only one that that's similar to is a translated mortal.

It's exactly the opposite of a dead in a known tomb. So each one of these is kind of picturing something that you can wrap your head around if you know the stories, which is kind of ironic, right? Because we don't know stories like this today. This kind of talks just sounds crazy. But this is exactly... I mean, why else would they say that he's a ghost? Because they know what the stories are. They weren't afraid of them.

They're trying to understand this just like we are. So when you come to the end of the day and you go, well, he's like this, but he's not like that. And he's like this, but he's not like that. He's like this one, but he's not like that one. You have to say there's something similar to it, but this is completely unique. It's the one-time event in world history

where a man rises from the dead of his own power and then comes and shows himself to people publicly in front of 500 people one time, Paul says. And what do you do with it? This is completely unique. Hi, Nathan Luke. I really love your podcast, Larry Creatures. I am so blessed that you guys talk about it

from a Christian faith-based standpoint. There's not too many Christian supernatural or paranormal groups that we can be a part of as well as to listen to. God bless you. Hey, what's up, guys? This is Jimmy from Virginia. shout out to blurry creatures. Luke and Nate. Thank you guys for creating the best podcast

about Bigfoot, UFOs, Giants, the Nephilim from Genesis 6. Great podcast, man. I listen to you guys on the road when I travel from job site to job site, man. And also shout out to the wonderful blurry creatures community. Happy 100, boys. So much. I have learned so much from blurry creatures. My brother and I actually did a Sunday school lesson with the youth called Not Your Mama Sunday School lesson. And we taught them all types of blurry creature content. So thank you guys. Blurry creatures has provided a place for those of us who have always

seeked the truth, especially in biblical terms, to come together and feel like we're not alone and to learn and laugh. And, yeah, I love it. Thanks, guys. Hey, this is Kenny C. from The Rock with Kenny C. The things I love about blurry creatures, man, is that it feels like, a real community of people. A lot of love in there.

My favorite thing, though, is where else you're going to hear, Dr. Judd Burton seeing Misty Mountains from the Lord of the Rings. Let's get blurry. Boy, here's a question. This might be just way too weird, but do you think, Doug, maybe it could be the pagan religions before the time of Christ, talked about their savior who spirit lingered and came back from the dead at all? because there's stories of, you know, I'm sure this wasn't the first time someone said,

oh, our hero is back from the dead, right? Well, yeah, I mean, that's what she's doing. That's what a hero story is, Nate, is that it's that exact thing. So whether it's a God or it's a Hercules or, you know, whoever it was that came back. And so, yeah, Jesus, his resurrection has similarities to that. It also has differences. But I mean, that's the, you know, I mean, like, it's a, it's a direct. It's a Trump card.

Kind of, yeah. That's what I feel like. It is. It's like, oh, your little God can do this? Watch. Oh, your little God can do that? Watch. You know, it's almost like the, it's like the God of, it's like the God of Moses,

you know, basically picking out the things to trump all the Egyptian gods. Oh, your God can do this. I can do that. Watch this. All the all the above. It's like God's taking the time out to embarrass. Right. Yeah.

Your magicians can do two. Two of these plagues watch me do hate more. So we talked about Shio and how up until Jesus took the believers, the dead in Christ at the point, would still be the dead in Christ to paradise. If you had Enoch and Elijah, who did not die, did not go to Shio that were taken up, were they just hanging in heaven with God and the angels,

and they're just sort of waiting around until this whole event happened? because if they didn't die, then just as Nate said, Jesus had to pass through that tunnel, you know, into the place that only man could do at death, are they just kind of hanging with the big man? Like until,

until they're, potentially their number is called for the comeback in Revelation to be the two witnesses. I mean, that's kind of where I end up landing. That's one question. I mean, I don't think we can answer it,

but it's interesting that those events are pre to the ransom event or the... Yeah, so, I mean, I would say that we can know at least how some of the people thought. So if you look at the book of Enoch and then Jude quotes from it, this is not Enoch as he's alive who's writing. The setting is that Enoch has been translated. And now he's being taken around to all these places and he's allowed to see them. And then he somehow communicates this knowledge in a book form and it gets to us here.

So how does that happen? but that does say that there's some they they seem to think that there was some kind of a way that a translated person like that still interacted with us here now that we have paradise when unbelievers die is there still a shield or they believe they're not going to hell in the sense of do you believe in the sense of like like fire damnation and fire and sort of the medieval way we think about it do we think about it in the ancient way where they go to shield and they're awaiting judgment still until that judgment day? Or do you believe that they're because of the action of Christ now?

They stand before the judgment of Christ and they're just pre to the judgment of the angels, the fallen angels and Satan at the end of days. So what do you think about that? Yeah, so go back to the Lazarus parable and the rich man is burning. And if he's, he's in Haiti, so he's in shield and he's burning. So there's some sort of a, the picture is a fire and, darkness and outer darkness and sometimes even cold. Like those are those are metaphorical, I think, to teach us something like we know when you

get burned with fire that this is not something that you want. So I don't know what's actually happening over there, but it's analogous to that, I think. What happened to the believers when they went to that place in the Old Testament was not analogous to it. That's what that parable or that non-parable parable kind of teaches us. So I think that they're still there because I don't think Jesus let them out. I think of it almost as a holding place until the final judgment when somehow, you know,

there's that weird verse that says that Hades will be thrown into the lake of fire. I don't really know what that means. But that seems to be talking about at the very least, Hades is a temporary thing. And then the lake of fire is the eternal thing. permanent that that becomes and so those people who are there will one day find meet their judgment going to fairness and righteousness and goodness and everything else god will judge them and then the eternal lake of fires is what awaits after that gahenna i mean it's it just it just puts a you know puts a cherry on top or or just dots the eye of significance of salvation when you put

You think about the terms of that, in terms of our contract that we have really with God, right? That just the significance, and as we look to Easter, the significance of the actions of, and the love in that, of God becoming flesh and doing these things in order to provide a way for us to not get what we deserve.

I mean, I think the weight of that is, I wish it was more tangible. I mean, just to talk from a person. standpoint more often than not I think we hear the story so often that we maybe sometimes lose the heavy weightiness or maybe the miraculous the universe like the universe can't contain the size and magnitude of the actions of the of what happened and sometimes we can compartmentalize us and I think sometimes into something that we can

even understand or try to understand and we don't really realize that like I don't know it just kind of hit me the weight of that like this is what this is how things are this is what God set in emotion. God is so just. God is love and fully love, but also fully just and fully holy, and he still provided a way. I don't know.

It's just such a great reminder. I mean, it's such a great, I loved this, Doug, just to try to suss out and, you know, and dig a little deeper into the understanding of these things because we, you know, we talk about this a lot.

We talk about this you a lot and the Judd a lot and with Mike Heiser a bit about just the understanding of trying to slip into the shoes and the skin of a, of a first century, christening before that they you know a an ancient hebrew and understand understand the way that things were were rationalized and understood in in that context when we read a bible in english it's been

translated and we live in a a westernized world posts in the enlightenment period and all that kind of stuff and it's just it's it's always amazing to me to take this little journey back maybe that's what i was trying to say i wonder if uh the reason why the first three centuries is starting with Paul himself and Peter and the other New Testament letters are so driven to tell a Christian to suffer for Christ is because when you live in luxury and peace and good times and wealth and all the things that we have had for so long, you can't enter into on a experiential level what Christ went through on the cross. I mean, in one way, hell really was on the cross because that's when he was facing the punishment.

That's when he was forsaken by the father. That's when the curse. That's when all the ridicule. The whole deal came down to him upon him while he was alive, cursed, hanging on that tree. But the moment he died, I think that that ended. And yes, he went to hell. But that wasn't to go be punished to proclaim his victory. And the resurrection is the proof that everything that happened on the cross was valid and true and means that it really is the way that we can be saved.

Because if he has eternal life and he's been able to give that to us through that event, then what in the world could possibly stop us from having it if he promises to give it to us? Let's go. There we go. If we're in church, like, come on. Come on. preach it. Well, I think, you know, the thing we've been trying so hard to do on this podcast and in this is sort of just give a framework, build a house, out a little bit of drywall, a little bit electrical, a little bit of frame in here and there to make sense of how all the blurry creatures fit into a narrative, a cohesive narrative. And really, you know, if you've listened to 100 episodes of this podcast, we started in Genesis and worked all the way all the way up to this point. but we talk about everything from from the original transaction to the corruption of creation to

you know the the tower of babel to the to the products of this Nate to the to the products of that right to the creatures to the to the weird stuff people see and then all the way back it honestly feels like when you grow up in the modern day church though these are all fragmented ideas that are all floating around that they they're not connected at all there is no you can't make sense of them. So you can make sense of like, okay, so what does it mean? Like, you know, let's go to church and talk about Jesus walking through a wall. And you can understand that in that moment. But that's it. Then the thought is gone. And you don't, you don't really have a cohesive narrative of like when he was there from day one in creation. And there's this

whole set of laws. And, you know, like Doug Hampson on our last episode, you know, Satan's just constantly trying to catch God on a technicality. That's really all he can do. All he can do is try to manipulate this little space that he has. It's really what it is. And so I think it's just, I don't know, for some reason it just feels like the story, the more you put the framework together, the more you can understand it, that there is, everything fits, everything.

And it all points to the bluriest creature of all, which is Christ himself, you know. I didn't say anything at all about him being blurry in the Old Testament. But, you know, man, that's for another program. The whole idea that Christ is blurry in the Old Testament. He's really there. And they knew him and they believed in him. And he was their God.

And he was just as blurry there. He is in the New Testament. And hard to wrap your mind around who in the world this person is. But it's because he's unique and nothing like him. Everything. One of one. One of one. The early years of Christ, why are they so.

blurry. Why is that sort of, what is it like when Jesus is 10? And why is that M. I.A? This is all another podcast. Jesus, the lost years. Now on A&E. It's just the end. It's just like they just list like small, this little chunk of time. But I mean, what's he doing until then? And why is that so, why do we know anything about that? To keep our imagination. Maybe. going maybe. And the purpose of the three and a half years and the reason that focuses on that is because when he's baptized, that's when he formally begins his ministry.

So before that, he was, you know, you think about it in the Old Testament. There was the Levites and the high priest and the priests of Israel. And well, they couldn't do their ministry until they're 30 years old. So what were they doing before that time? Well, they were, I guess they're doing what any other regular Jew would do. and then when they're 30, then they're washed in the water and they're clothed with the garments, and then they become priests for however long they serve. And that's exactly what's happening with Jesus.

And so it focuses that because the ministry work is what we need to know in order to be able to come to the conclusions that we do as Christians about who this person was. Forget that, though. He had to do this process to be the high priest as well. Do you think, Doug, that some of the stuff is blurry and maybe confusing where it's like, okay, let's just look at this. Let's think about this like a movie. We're going to save the world, but it's going to take 33 years to do it. Okay, so we're going to send in a secret agent, but they can't know he's coming. So we have to sort of inject him into society and almost let it be forgotten. And then he will, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. It's funny because when he's born, the angels know. Herod kind of knows, but he doesn't really understand. There's really only two people at all to get it other than his, you know, his immediate family. And that's, you know, the old woman who's at the temple, Anna, and then this old guy named Zechariah, and they see the baby and they recognize, oh, this is the consolation of Israel.

And he's here to save Israel from its sin. They're the only people they get it. The magi. The magi do. Well, there's another show, too. Yeah, the magi precursor's magician. there's a lot there is that's actually kind of related to what we're talking about i just wonder if there's some time there is that satan is almost it's almost like enough time goes by forgets or

or it's it just needs just makes i don't know they they thought they maybe they had done away with with what the threat because of the butchering of the of the infant boys by herod and they don't they don't really know whether that works or not until that's what i'm wondering so when this is baptized so I mean, I think literally that like... Interesting line of thought. Yeah, I mean, that's interesting, too, because like the idea that... I think this also is just me pulling threads, but the idea of the temptation of Christ and Satan not knowing if he could die, right?

Maybe he's... Maybe that is also very much connected to the idea that he didn't die with the infanticide of Herod. And so is this... Is this guy killable, right? And I mean, he gets walked into... essentially doing what he's meant to do because it wasn't it was only by the death that this could happen but and if he had known that they never would have killed Jesus right

this we've talked about this before well that goes back to what you know all those times he's trying he's escapes they're trying to kill him right then and right yeah he just vanished from their sight well that makes so much sense Luke I mean what happens at the baptism of Christ really I mean if he's always the son of God why is that why is that of it's the it's the announcement dude it's it's like That's the, that's the marketing push. Heaven's open up.

It does fly. God says, this is my son. But does something happen at that moment? Does he get? I think he'll just push him on stage. Honestly. Well, like I said, he's literally formerly ordained into the ministry of the priest. That's a formal Old Testament obedience of Exodus 29 in the ritual of the ordination of the priest.

It's being made holy by the water, right? It's the whole idea of, of being, yeah, he's being set apart by it. So Jesus is different before the baptism and after? In the sense that, well, I mean, I guess and kind of, because the Holy Spirit comes upon him to help him with that ministry. But the difference is one more of, I think of office than a person. He's not, he's not functioning in the office of high priest until that moment. Doesn't mean he's not going to be the high priest or anything like that. But he just got promoted.

Well, how about this? He got ordained into it. Does Satan know who he is at that point? Yes, because he gets immediately sent into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil. It's the very next thing that happened. But he doesn't know who he is before that. Well, maybe. I don't know.

Good question. Maybe that is the moment that Satan knows where he's at. And then, you know, it's almost like he's here. Yeah. Dang it. We didn't get him. He's still here. He's still here.

Right? Yeah. Because if they knew, they wouldn't have killed him. It just makes you wonder. Yeah. Makes you wonder. It's so blurry. And then he's, you know, and then he's walking through walls.

We've got to conclude it, Luke. He walks through the walls. And then he goes on the mountain and he gets real blurry and floats. And he's gone. Well, then he appears and he tells Thomas to touch his hands and the holes in his hands. And that's the part you were talking about as well, this idea of him being a, this resurrected form. of you can touch, talk to. I think it's just, it's amazing.

It's interesting. It's like the, he does all the categories. Yeah, that's the one where actually you could touch a hero in the old stories and you could touch a revenant, but you can't touch a ghost. And that's the one that they specifically think that he is. Hi, Nate and Luke. I just wanted to say that I am super grateful for your podcast because I have been searching for years to find the answers to, you know, God and his revelation through the Bible just everywhere.

And I feel like your podcast and all your people that you've included have just explained it so abundantly. And I'm just so thankful for that. Hi, Lolita from the Philippines. I got into blurry creatures because of Tim Alberino and my own personal encounters with the unknown. interest in blurry subjects is useful in getting a well-rounded understanding of reality, building our faith, and so we get to understand how God works and how the enemy works and what we can do to stand against them. After listening to all the episodes of blurry creatures, there's only one thing I know for

absolute certain is that Schrodinger's cat is a cryptid. Blurry creatures has reignited my faith in Jesus. It's lit a fire under me. before I didn't really understand what Jesus had saved me from because I wasn't that bad of a person. I wasn't a terrible sinner, I didn't think. And now I know that he saved me from evil, from Satan and his hordes, and that that evil is coming back and wants to take me and all of humanity down with it. And I have a huge reason to have faith in Jesus and to share his love with other people.

Good morning, Nate and Luke. I wanted to take a moment to say thank you for 100 episodes of the blurry creatures pod. I discovered you guys in about February of 2021 and was hooked from the start. Going back to the early 2000s discussions and research of odd Christian topics such as the Nephilim or Bigfoot was really hard to find. And I remember being laughed at for even bringing up the topics. So thank you for creating a welcoming space for us to research and discuss these ideas and other challenging topics in the Bible. So thanks again, guys.

This is Mike in Orange County, California. See ya. My name is Mike Kaler, and I discovered blurry creatures through my teacher, Dr. Judd Burton, hooked to the show and actually learned a few things along the way. Thanks, guys. Well, Doug, I love this, man.

100 episodes in, we have the honor of the illustrious Doug Van Dorn. We're looking down to Easter. and we get to talk about really the crux the whole point of of how we you know we're the beginning in the end of how trying to understand the things in our world in the Bible that that are that don't make a lot of sense the things that we want to think about we want to you know we talk about if it's weird it matters if it's weird it's worth talking about right and there's a lot of weird things about Jesus and we don't talk about I appreciate that the time

a day because it's it's worth talking about and worth trying to understand because I guess like I sort of just ex you know sort of opined about a little bit like it it really puts things into context right the magnitude of things and I just appreciate it it's it's you become a great friend of the show you are vying with Doug and Tim to be the the number one on the podium as far as episodes and we love that and we appreciate your Yeah, your friendship and everything else alongside of that. Doug, Luke did it on episode 100, comparing Jesus to Bigfoot, what I thought about. I'm getting crucified for that.

No, I thought about this. That's how I started the podcast because I made the connection. I made the connection there in my mind years ago at a bonfire with some friends. And I thought there is this weird connection. I don't understand. It doesn't make any sense. there is this element of elusiveness, confusion, spirituality that it's associated with it, an endless lore. You can't stop talking about it. It takes faith to believe in it. But there's

evidence also. Yeah. Yeah. And it's just this crazy thing that you keep coming back to it. You keep coming back to the stories. You keep coming back to the narrative and you can't make 100% sense of it, but there's so much there. You can't say it didn't, you know, something's not happening or something didn't happen. And the big difference being that one provides the salvation for all mankind. And the other just tends to break, to break trees and hell in the darkness. So there's a little difference there.

But no, I got. No, no, no. I'm giving you a hard time. The analogy is there, right? It's just, it's the. But no, I mean, when I started to blurry creatures, I thought, like, there's with this creature. that's the most popular cryptic creature. And there's this other, there's this, there's this marriage that doesn't happen very often in

podcasts like this. People talk about the weird, scary stuff, but they don't, they don't want to go into the Bible. And people talk about the Bible, but they don't want to talk about the scary stuff. And it's like, well, why don't we marry those two things? And give people like you permission to come on our show and get as weird as you want. Well, I really appreciate you giving me a voice to be able to talk about this. I mean, the church that we have is I talk about it with them all the time, but to be able to do. We know this.

We know. You know, you know, talk to a broader audience and share things that I think are important. And you guys, you guys have just one of the best platforms out there. And I'm honored to be able to be a guest on your show. Dang, man. I think you may have pioneered the first blurry creatures fan club at through your church. Because we get people be like, yeah, we got to, I got a Doug Van Dorn's church. You talked about you talked about your podcast.

At our Bible study or something, I was like, this guy. I like this guy. You wrote one of the best books on Giants, too. That's because I try not to sensationalize it. I love it. I love it. Tell them where they can hang out with you. Before they boot you off social media.

You might get four followers on Facebook. Yeah. So just put it out there. Yeah, exactly. Idiot and let my other website, which is Doug Van Dorn go. So I lost all that clout on the search engine kind of stinks, but just Douglas Van Dorn. And that's where my books and stuff are at. And then our church, I'd like to promote this just for the fact that we have, you know,

I've done 20 years of sermons and almost all of them are online, either in audio and many of them in PDF form, just free to read and take. And if you can find, you know, I go through books of the Bible. So if you find a passage and then you go to our site and you see that I'm pretty, preach to it, odds are pretty good that I've talked about whatever the weird thing is you're thinking about in that passage in that sermon. Yeah. The website is www.

www.r.r.r.r-c-nc-com. RBCN-C-C-N-C. You've written a lot of books. They're on Amazon. Go give them a review. Go pick up a book. Yeah. Go buy all the books.

All the books for Easter presents for all your family and friends. Thanks, Doug. Seriously. I mean, it's, it's, we are a creature's show. and it is sort of a bold topic to tackle and maybe too blurry for some, but I loved it. This is seriously like one of those episodes where I almost don't want it to end because I've been riveted since we started the conversation. I feel like we have a good length here, but thank you for suggesting the idea, and I think it's going to be perfect. So really, I really, I didn't know how it was going to go, but I had a feeling maybe it would be awesome,

Maybe be the best one ever. Who knows? Should be. We'll see. Hey, we'll do just something personal. I'm just really grateful. We're thankful for just the community and the friendship. Looking after Jet and the brotherhood.

We're just grateful to have you. I'm honored to be able to be a guest on your show. So a friend texts me one day and says he's got this new podcast I got to listen to. So I went to it and I picked Genesis 6 with Tim Alberino, and my life has never been the same. name. Love you guys. Look forward to each and every episode. I tell everybody I know about it. It's a funest way to share the gospel. We even got someone asking us to do a blurry Bible study. How cool is that? Hi, Nate, Hugh, and all blurry members. Thanks for being part of this. It's been great.

And I appreciate the genius of Luke and Nate, the genius podcasters that you are to put all of this together and keep it going and keeping it blurry and keeping it so interesting. And thanks for all the members and encounters of your experiences has helped me to consider and reconsider the experiences that I've had and that they're blurry, but they're real. And that's really been so helpful for me and just love it. Keep on going. Hey, Nathan Luke, Michael Petty here. Just wanted to say congrats on 100 episodes. Wow, it's crazy to think that we've gone through that many already. Glary Creatures has been a delight for me this past year,

and engaging with the blurry community has been a blast. Thanks for talking about all the strange and fringe topics from a Christian lens. Someone needs to do it, and I'm glad it's you too. The Blurry Creatures podcast has taught me that the reality of this world is far more magnificent than I could have ever possibly imagined. Hey guys, Stella Vino here, coming at you to say thank you for all the hard work that you do for making us laugh, for making us think, for pointing us to the Bible, for being led by the Holy Spirit. And it's amazing to see the evolution that this podcast has gone

through already. Keep up the great work. Keep up the great guests. And God bless. Hey, guys, Tanner here. I just want to say how much I love the podcast and how much it solidifies my faith in the Bible and just how glory the Bible can get. I really appreciate all you guys do. bringing that awesome mystery back into the Christian walk in the Christian life and also just in overall the world. So blurry creatures has really brought me to a new understanding and a new realization of the Bible that I never really had before. And through this podcast, I now know that things like Bigfoot exist and I have to be aware of them. And I'm thankful for the friendships I've made for the community and you guys are amazing. Thank you. It's hard to squeeze this in 20 seconds,

but these guys have reignited my sense of wonder and have driven me back into my Bible and studying ancient history like nothing else has just because they're shedding light on these blurry subjects that no one else is really willing to touch you know Nate Luke Dr. Laura, Dr. Heiser, Jedd. Yeah, it's just amazing they're also like building this the coolest community of friends too because once you start having these conversations it kind of instantly bonds you know it's like oh you're weird too