Blurry Creatures - EP: 110 The Underworld with Derek Gilbert

Episode Date: June 14, 2022

The incomparable Derek Gilbert returns to Blurry Creatures. An author, researcher, and host of Skywatch TV and A View From the Bunker Podcast, Derek joins us this week to expose and expound upon the ancient's worldview and beliefs around the afterlife. Where do we go when we die? What did the ancient Hebrews believe? What did ancient cultures believe? What does the Bible actually say about the world after this? After touching on this topic multiple times in previous episodes, we go full speed into the historical and spiritual aspects of death, Hades, Sheol, and the Abyss. This episode is dedicated to a member and friend of the show, Korey Guidry, who lost his battle with cancer last week. Thanks for listening to the show. Guest: https://www.gilberthouse.org Support the show! www.blurrycreatures.com/members Socials instagram.com/blurrycreatures facebook.com/blurrycreatures twitter.com/blurrycreatures Music Kyle Monroe: tinytaperoom.com Aaron Green: https://www.instagram.com/aaronkgreen/ Outro Song: TimeCop1983: timecop1983.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

So often people email us and they have this story. They're out in their woods and they're looking in the bushes and they go, what's that? And when you are pouring your dog food and your dog's bowl, that's the last thing you want to say. What is that? What is this stuff coming out of this bag? You know, I don't think a lot of us think about maybe what we feed our dogs. And that's why we partner with rough greens.

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That's RUFF Greens.com discount code blurry. Rough Greens makes any dog food better. Listen, Luke, we know that we live in a world where everything is fake, fake food, fake clouds, fake news, everything's fake. And you know what? You get tired of it. And you're just like, if I want to buy a shirt or something nice, can I just, please give me something real. Quinn's is an amazing company that does high quality everyday essentials. So we're moving in.

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So you're paying for the quality, not the brand markup. And everything is designed to last and look good, baby. Well, if you want stuff that's the real deal, go to quince.com. Like we have, got a whole fleet of new T-shirts this last time, man. Because I'm ready for the spring and summer. I got 100% ringspung cotton shirts. I got a couple floated shirts or light and air to wear around, work in the yard, or wear to the studio. If you're like me and you want to get some new threads for the summer,

refresh your wardrobe at Quinn's. Go to quins.com slash blurry for free shipping and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada. You're in America's hat. You want the goods. You can get it now. Go to Q-U-I-N-C-E dot com slash blurry for free shipping and 365 day returns. Quins.com slash blurry. The whole point of this war is resurrection, and who gets resurrected? I mean, the Refi'en texts of Eugart, its Amarite culture from about the time of the judges, was about summoning them to the threshing floor of L, where they would be revivified by the blessing of the name of L. But in 1st Corinthians 15, Paul goes through a summary of the gospel, and then he says,

and the whole point is that Christ was raised up for it. If he hasn't been raised, then we're still on our sins. and we're doomed. And he goes on through the rest of that chapter about why it's so important that we believe that Jesus was literally resurrected. He is the first fruits of the resurrection. He is the template for the rest of us

who have accepted just that simple historical fact of the death and resurrection of Christ for our sins. We will be resurrected. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed. And then shall come to pass that which is written, oh, death, where is your victory? Death, where is your sting? That's what this is all about.

that's what this is all about hey welcome back to blurry creatures this week we have sort of a little bit of a different intro we had some sad news that a member of the show Corey Geidre he

loved blurry creatures he had his battle with cancer he was a member of the show and he passed away but he made a lot of friends with people in this space in this community here at Blurry Creatures and so we thought we'd throw a little bit of audio of him talking about the

show and another member of the show had some audio clips of him and so he thought it would be cool to share Corey's story and dedicate this episode to him specifically. Pretty interesting thing like that connects with the Nephilim and the megalithic structures and something that is in opposition and what God did. and when people say that, you know, Christianity's coming from them versus they're taking stuff from us. It's interesting because the verses we read tonight actually make that very, very easy to see. And I thought of something else that connected with that last episode of Blurray Creatures. all the creatures.

Again, that was Corey. Corey, rest in peace. You will be missed. Yeah, he sent us a message right before this, right before he passed away and he said, Got cancer surgery tomorrow. But if for some reason I don't make it out and get to tell you guys later,

much love to you both. And thanks for bringing everyone together via the Blurryverse. Like the Avengers' simple call over the last year since I discovered the podcast, I have met some awesome folks and was hoping I could eventually make it

to a meetup in the future. May y'all protect you both and your families in these last days. It was a great distraction to get to fellowship with everyone on the members chat and post chat the other day. I hope continued success for you all in the future in your spiritual walks and endeavors with the podcast.

Shalom. Thanks, Corey. This one's for you, buddy. The history of our earth is so different from what we can imagine. The Smithsonian that if they found out about a large skeleton somewhere

was to go get it. assume at least one person is right because if one person's right and bust the paradigm it all goes back to the fallen chair and the problem with the modern day church they have a very truncated view of supernatural this backdrop that's just pregnant with all kinds of meaning associated with this mount herman event and this guy defects from the kingdom that's a big deal and luke Luke loves the little people, Derek. This is ridiculous. The Dolmans is where the little people live.

This is ridiculous because this is Nate's thing. This is actually a Nate's thing. Do you want to do a proper intro and get started or do you want to, this has been a fun. This has been fun already. I feel like Derek should introduce us, Luke, because he's so good. He's got such a good voice. Welcome back to blurry creatures. Now, Derek, welcome to the show.

Thank you for coming on again. I think this is your fourth time on the show. Third or fourth. I don't count. It's not enough. Not enough. That's the right answer. That is, I was going to say, yeah, not often enough. I was going to say hopefully they're memorable because we can't count them. That's the better answer. And when, and when Derek comes on our show, it's like when the professor of college goes to the elementary school for like work day, you know. It's career day. He's graceful to come by our show. The last time I did a career day was sometime around 1985 or six when I went to,

talked to high school students in Atlanta, Illinois, which is southeast of Peoria, which is interesting because the other guy who went with us, we were part of an AM FM TV combo. And the guy came from the TV side. It was Martin Savage, who's spent many years in CNN since then. So he went down, he went down the dark road. It's so I'm sad to hear. He went to CNN. He went to CNN. The guy who was doing the AM shift on the AM station, the evening shift opposite me on our station went to WGN. Oh. Ooh.

Cubbies. You know. Yeah. And here I am in the Ozarks. Hey. But I wouldn't trade places with either one of them. There you go. We wouldn't want you to do.

Yeah. And I'm so glad you prepared all those years ago to come back to Career Day here on Blurray creatures. You know, the Lord. The Lord knew this day would come. It works in mysterious ways, doesn't he? Yeah. Somehow we get thrown into these things, Derek. We don't understand.

Tim put us on stage first for the Birthright Conference. And Luke and I were like, I know. What are we doing here? We don't know how we got here. Sharon and I were like, why aren't we at this conference? That would have gone. But we were joking that because they put the worst wine out first. It was us.

They're like, the best stuff's at the end, by the way. But we'll start with these knuckleheads. I didn't even know I was introducing the conference. It was like, we were there. And all of a sudden I was like, okay, welcome to the conference. It was just fun. That's what I like about this space, Derek is like, Luke and I were like in completely different worlds.

We just kind of dove. into this space and we didn't know a lot about it. And it's cool to kind of go back and see the history of you guys are all friends with each other. You've traveled all over the world together. Well, yeah. You know, it's funny is that now that we've launched, Cy Friday and Unravelling Revelation, the two weekly programs, television programs that we do under our own ministry banner with Tom Horne's blessing, which is, you know, really amazing. Tom Horn has basically paid us to learn how to do television for the last seven years. And now he said, you know, we want you to keep doing the daily news commentary and sit on the panel for the main show. So, you know, Joe hosts the show. I sit on the side.

I didn't, you know, make, you know, wise comments. I filled the role of the, you know, the wizened old, whatever, the old sage. On the side of the saves, that's it. So, you know, I'm having to grow into that role because Tom's got big shoes to fill. But, you know, we, so we've got our programs out under our own mobile app, Roku, Apple TV, and all that. And Sharon said, you know, we ought to start putting those old PID radio episodes. up there because we found an external hard drive that we hadn't used in years. And lo and behold, it's got all of these old MP3 files going back to 2005, which is the podcast that started this whole thing.

So as I was going through the episodes the other night, and I uploaded like 10 episodes from April through December of 2005. And I found in a September episode, one that hasn't been online for years, our very first interview with Tom Horace. Oh, that's awesome. Yeah. So. Where can we find that?

I mean, this is sort of like backwards, front words, but like, we'll have to bring this up at the end and have you pointed everybody in the direction of all this stuff here because this is, I want to listen to that. We've got a lot of archives and PID Radio online, but this one somehow I never got back on the web because we've got to move hosting companies a few times over the years. And every time you do it, it's a hassle. I don't know if you guys have to go through that. It's like torture, all the files moved. It's like never made it to the new server. So it's been offline for probably, I don't know, you know, 12 years or something like that. So yeah, the first interview between the Gilbert's and Tom Horn from September 2005 is available now.

but only on our app or on Roku. I love that. But we're going to get that back online. I love it. Yeah, it was really hoot because we got some very early interviews with Mike Heiser from 2005. The first interview with Mike Heiser, our first interviews with Stan Dale, L.A. Marzuli, Guy Malone. Found an interview from 2005 with Patrick Heron. I don't know if you ever had the opportunity to talk to Patty here.

Mike had just spoken at Guy Malone's Ancient of Days Bible UFO conference. in Roswell, which featured Mike Kaiser, guy, of course, Joe Jordan, David Flynn, who's no longer with us, who's written some just mind-blowing stuff. And actually, we got some old interviews with David Flynn that I just posted up, too, like on the occult signature of the Roswell crash in 1947. Wow. Wow. David's mind was on a whole other level when it came to math. It's like the date, the latitude, longitude, everything about it had some sort of numerical significance in the cult realm. So even if, as Guy Malone believes that this was a secret government project using Nazi scientists smuggled out on the rat lines, the fact is the numerical signature of what happened

in July of 47 at Roswell or at Corona. And then Patrick Heron, who wrote a book back in 2005 called The Nepheline and the Pyramid of the Apocalypse. It was kind of bittersweet because the interview we recorded with Patty was just after I'd gotten back from visiting my parents down in South Carolina because my dad had been suffering from an illness for several months. We didn't know what it was at the time. And little do we know when we recorded the interview with Patrick in July of 2005 that my dad only had two more weeks on this earth. We had the time to discuss important things.

And dad knew where he was going. So that made it a lot easier to deal with. But it was really cool. My dad had said, hey, I was listening to this fellow on coast to coast a.m. the other night. You might be interested. His name is Patrick Perrin. It's like, yeah, we got an interview schedule right when we get back. Yeah, let's go.

You know, dad, he thought that was awesome. But Heiser, Mike described Patty as a bawdy Billy Graham. Because he's an Irishman. And he's like, yes, when you come over to Dublin to visit us, we'll have a few pints of Guinness and sing some songs in the pub. And so that was his approach to evangelizing. But it was, uh, I like that approach personally. Well, yeah, yeah. It was interesting trying not to drag Skywatch TV into anything.

No, no. No, it's just, I've been. Ireland. I love Ireland. Ginnis and Ireland is on a whole other level. It actually might be a come to Jesus, or literal come to Jesus moments. So I get it, Patty. I get it. Yeah, there's nothing like an Irish accent. That's for sure.

That is a fact. And he was magnificent. Sadly, he has gone home to be with the Lord. He came down. He was afflicted with cancer a couple of years after that. And so we never got the opportunity to meet him, but I was looking forward to meeting him in person. But his book was really eye-opening. The pyramid

of the apocalypse, he believes, is the new Jerusalem because in the book of Revelation is described as, you know, so many, you know, cuets around each side. But he said, but there's nothing that says it's a cube. Why do all of these, you know, end times teachers, you know, teach us like the borg, the borg coming down from heaven when the early, the pagan nations around ancient Israel, all of their gods lived on mountaintops. God met Moses on a mountain top. And, you know, this whole war ends on a mountain from Mount Zion in Jerusalem. So why wouldn't the new Jerusalem when it comes down? be a pyramid like dude that's fascinating that's actually really crazy to think about it makes a ton of

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I mean, is that the symbolism of pyramid anyway? It's just like a mountain? Sure. Yeah, it's an artificial mountain, just like the ziggurats of Mesopotamia, the steppehram, the steppehramil, it's trying to create a mountain. That's, you know, in my book, The Great Inception, and, you know, Sharon and I've kind of repeated this almost every book that we put out. It's like, look, Babel was all about creating an artificial mountain.

It's a portal to bring the gods and humanity into contact. Now, could they have done it? Don't know, but they thought they could. And God was like, no, we're not doing that. And he personally intervened. Something was going on. It was important enough for God to personally intervene. It's fascinating to think about that in the context of what we see,

what we still see in Egypt. And I mean, all across South America, right, the idea that we know what happened on top of mountains, obviously, like you just said, Moses and Moses met God on a mountain. And then we had the Transfiguration on a mountain. We had Mount Herman in the events of Genesis 6 on top of a mountain. And Christ returns, he lands on the Mount of Olives. I mean, that's one of the main points that I made in my new book, the second coming of Saturn is the connection between Mount Hermon and the Mount of Olives.

There is a reason, I think, that Jesus spent so much of the last week of his life on the Mount of Olives. He basically divided his time between the Mount of Olives and the Temple Mount, teaching and preaching in the Temple Mount, but then, you know, the Olivet discourse, where Jesus basically gave his longest sermons about what would happen in the end times there on the Mount of Olives. He raised Lazarus from the dead in the Mount of Olives. He was betrayed on the Mount of Olives, arrested, crucified, buried on the Mount of Olives. He descended into the abyss from the Mount of Olives.

He was seen there again at the tomb by the women when he was resurrected. And according to the Gospel of Luke, he was caught up into heaven from Bethany, which is on the Mount of Olives. And then according to Zechari 14, he returns at the Mount of Olives and it splits in half. Why? Go back to the Old Testament where you see that Solomon put a high place on top of the, actually three high places, one for a start. Asherapoles? There were three high places, one for Astarte, which was Inana or Ishtar, the goddess of sex and war. Kemash, who was the war god of Moab, who was Ares of the Greeks and Mars of the Romans.

And the third one was to Mollick, or Milcom, the abomination of the Ammonites. And I show in my book how Milcom Molek was just another name for a title, really. In Ammonite, it means king. It was L, the creator of God of the Canaanites, whose mom. of assembly, his mount of congregation, his abode was Mount Hermon. Well, Jesus had gone to the summit of Mount Hermon with Peter, James, and John was transfigured. And then from there, he made his way back to Jerusalem and then divided his time that last week of his life between the Mount of Olives and the Temple Mount. And when he returns, it's right there. So it's like this entity, Enlil, Dagon,

Baal Haman, Kronos, Saturn, Kumarvi, every single one of them connected to the underworld or are explicitly banished to the abyss to Tartarus as somehow convinced his followers that he's coming back. And Jesus made a point of going to this place where Solomon built a high place to this entity. And the Mount of Olives is higher than the Temple Mount. And it's to the East, which means when you open the doors of Solomon's temple toward the east, you're looking up at the Mount of Olives at the Holy Place that Solomon built for Molek. Yeah, I remember you talking about on our last episode a little bit. Yeah.

And we've done a couple episodes. We talked to Tim Mackey from the Bible project about... Bring this up too, Nate. About heaven and earth. And I asked him specifically, you know, Derek, like, what do you think it is about these high places? And I felt like he gave us kind of an academic answer to the just humans are just trying to get to God.

And I feel like something else is going on there. Do you think you get to certain elevation? And then... Because we've heard a lot of things on our show, Derek, we're like, people go missing. They go through portals and doorways if they go... Native Americans wouldn't go past certain elevations. because of these things. It's not just, it's not just symbolism for sure.

Something goes on. I'm glad you asked that, Nate. I wasn't asked the same thing. Because it can't just be a proximity thing, right? It just can't be that you're close enough. Yeah, I think even, you know, 4,000 years ago, 5,000 years ago, they were smart enough to figure out how to engineer these, these really magnificent temples out of bricks made of mud in, you know, Sumer. I think they were smart enough to realize they weren't ever going to build a tower tall enough to reach heaven.

I mean, there weren't stupid. So, no, I think there was something specifically about the, I don't know, the shape of the building or the location of the building. But the idea was that it was a portal that was supposed to represent the mountains. Okay, we don't have a mountain here. I mean, when you look at Sumer, there were no mountains in ancient Sumer. Sumer is basically an alluvial plain, which is like, you know, reeds and water and marshland and mud, which is why when Nimrod's kingdom, the Uruk period of history developed and O'Rourke dominated everything to as far north as eastern Turkey, it's because they needed raw materials. They wanted stone.

They wanted lumber. They wanted copper because you can't make bronze to make weapons if you don't have copper. And that's all way north in Turkey. So why didn't they just move there? I don't know. There was something about that area. The ancient city of Eridu was the location of the temple of Enki, who was the god. of the Abzu, the abyss. And it's our argument, and we agree with David Roel, who actually

proposed this first, that the temp tower of Babel was located at Eridu, that it was the Temple of Enki. There's an ancient Samarian poem to the king, or the king, who's mentioned in the Samarian king list, who Roll identifies as Nimrod. I think he's right. This poem describes how Enmerkar wanted to get these building materials from a kingdom in the area called Arata. which is probably a twisting of the ancient kingdom of Araratu or Ehrarat in the mountains of Turkey in order to build the Eabsu, the house of the abyss, to make it an abode of the gods. That's preserved in this poem, which also mentions how the language of all the people was confused. Now, the god Enki takes credit for it, but that's the way of pagan gods.

They often do that. But the point is you've got the main outlines of the story of the Tower of Babel preserved in this poem called Enmerkar and the Lord of Arata. And I think the key is that he wanted to build this temple into an abode of the gods. Sharon made a really interesting connection during one of our weekly Bible studies a couple of years ago. And this is something that we've mentioned now in our ongoing learning series. I mean, as we go through the Bible verse by verse each week, I think we learn more than the people who give us their time and listen to the study. because we keep coming across things as we've gone through the Bible now one and a half times.

It's like, okay, I don't remember this from the last time. Was this in here before? We just, yeah, it's, no, no, it's the Mandela effect again. The threshing floor as a portal, the idea of the threshing floor as a portal. When David had to stop the destroyer, the angel that was sent by God to punish Israel because David had chosen to conduct a census and number his soldiers, which was, who were you trusting in for salvation or to protect your kingdom? You're trusting God, or you're trusting the number of swords that you can put on the battlefield. Well, God sent a destroying angel. And so David was told to, you know, go to the threshing floor of Arana and buy the threshing floor and he sacrificed there. Why the threshing floor? Why was he able to see the angel of the Lord with his sword drawn over Jerusalem there at the threshing floor?

But we see this in pagan texts as well. The, the refiene texts. What's the threshing floor for? Well, it's a big flat space, usually on a hill so that you get the benefit of the wind. And you would take a winnowing fork. It's like a big, like a snow shovel, but with, you know, big fork tines in the end of it. And you'd throw everything gleaned from the field or taken from the field up into the air. Okay.

And the chaff, the bits that you don't want to save or try to eat, get blown away in the wind. When they have your grain falls back down. And you keep doing this until you run, you know, you run out a chaff. Separate the way for the chaff, right? Right. Exactly. but in the Eucharitic Refiene texts, which summoned the spirits of what the Amorites thought were their ancestral kings to a ritual meal at the tabernacle or threshing floor of L, which is the summit of Mount Hermon. Again, this idea of the threshing floor of L is where he held court with Asherra and his 70 sons, which were the gods of all the nations.

And it's the top, and it's the dressing floor of Mount Herm and Mount Hermon. That's zero surprising, but also like kind of crazy to hear. Yeah. I mean, it's, it's described as a, as a threshing floor. And, you know, again, it's also a place where you'd have the oxen treading out the grain where they would be hitched to a like a central post. They'd just kind of walk around and around and around. Sharon, you know, it said, I love the way she thinks outside the box.

Kind of sounds like crop circles, doesn't it? They're like, oh, yeah, crop circles, portals, same shape as the threshing floor. So, yeah. So this was a concept that was known not just to the Hebrews, but to the pagans to the ancient world. Threshing for is a place where you would commune with the gods. Again, a high place because that's where they would come down and meet you. It's not by accident that when God restarts the world, the boat lands on Mount Ararat. You know, and you have all these mountains that are consistently in the story. And it's just funny. Ask some of these guys. It's their job to study the Bible and describe it to us. And you're like, why mountains? And it's just no one knows.

No one really has a good answer. No one really can tell us on our show like what's going on on the mountaintops. But under the mountain. Yeah. Well, the interesting thing in the caves, right? Well, the interesting thing is that an ancient sumer, the word for mountain was identical to the same word for the underworld. So you've got this real interesting duality there. the creator god of the Mesopotamians, who was head of the pantheon until the rise of Marduk

toward the end of the, about the time of Saul and David, around 1,100, 1,100 B.C. Marduk finally was elevated to the top of the Pantheon in Mesopotamia. But before that, it was NL. I showed my book as, you know, Dagon and L and, you know, a number of other Acher, the chief god of the Assyrians, same entity just under different names. His chief epithet, whether he was Enlil or Dagon or Asher or L. L, less for L, but the other three for sure was referred to as Great Mountain. Now, when you consider, though, that the Sumerian word Kerr, K-U-R, also means Netherworld, the Great Below, again, it's, I think relevant when you consider that this entity, the one who was supposed to be the father of all the gods of Mesopotamia,

all the gods of the world, was fathered by this entity who's got this underworld connection, because after Marduk came to power, Enlil was basically relegated to the Netherworld. Umarbi, after he was overthrown by the storm god, the hurry and version of the storm god Teshap, he was banished to the netherworld. Of course, the story of Zeus and Jupiter, you know, the Olympians rising up and overthrowing Oronos or Kronos rather Kronos and Saturn also banished to the netherworld. The same story over and over. So this connection between mountains and the netherworld going all the way back to Sumer is really significant. But why, The other thing that's curious is that

Enlil's temple, his main temple was located in ancient city called Nipur and sometimes transliterated into English as Nibru, which was then twisted by Zechariah Sitchin into Nibiru, this planet that's on a, you know, massive, yeah. No, it's not a planet. It's the city Nipur where Enlil, the creator got the Mesopotamian Pantheon,

had his main temple. What's fascinating is, is that Ezekiel's vision of the wheels within wheels and the, you know, the cherub beam in the sky around. He basically was given a throne room vision of the God of the Bible. And Ezekiel mentions like six times in the book of Ezekiel that this vision took place over the Kivar Canal, C-H-E-B-A-R, the Kivar Canal. Why does he keep mentioning it again and again? Because it's important. The Kivar Canal was a canal off the Euphrates River that ran right through the city of Nipur,

which means that Ezekiel's vision of the glory of God, Yahweh, occurred right over the temple of the chief god of Mesopotamia. Love that. The Great Mountain. It's a shot fire, right? Yes. And then when you read in Zechariah 4, there's that famous Bible verse, not by might nor by power, but by my spirit, says the Lord. There's a little bit more to that verse that doesn't get mentioned. Zechariah four, beginning of verse six, then he said to me, this is the word of the Lord

to Zerubababelle, not by might nor by power, but by my spirit, says the Lord of hosts, which means Lord of armies. And then in verse seven, you get this, who are you, oh, great mountain, before Zerubababelle, you shall become a plain. Most Bible teachers will look at that and say, well, that just means, you know, Zerubabelle, who was tasked with rebuilding the temple, he just had a really hard job. And he had to overcome the office. And he had to overcome the obstacles to do this. It's like, no, the Israelites had just come back from 70 years in Mesopotamia. You don't think they knew who the great mountain was?

This, I think, is a direct slap at this God who dared to have his followers call him Milkcombe, King, Molek. I love that. And demanded the sacrifice to children. I mean, is Yahweh doing the same thing when he passes judgment on the gods of Egypt? It's this, it's this, God is continually, at least through the biblical narrative showing his power, his, his authority and dominion over the sons of God, like the, you know, the watchers and the watcher class and those, and those that rebel. Listen, when I reached out to you, there's an article you wrote for prophecy watchers, and it was about, it was about where do I go when I die? And we're kind of getting into it already.

But I would love to like break this down for a couple of dummies like Nate and I. It was that we have the mountain above and the mountain below. and we have this cast of characters that Nate and I have with you and Doug and Judd and this cast of guests have laid out these the watchers and these entities. We talked to you about Saturn and the names of that entity and Apollyon and the Abyss and all these things are connected. But what we haven't talked about is our relation to sort of this infrastructure, if you want to put it that way. And like what the ancient Israelites believed about what happens when we die and how that relates. to, as you're talking about, the Samarians and the Babylonians in these ancient cultures that also had similar ideas, but they, of course, put their pantheon of gods on the good side

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Shop cameras, doorbells, and more at ring.com now. But I'd love to walk through that because I think we started talking about this at the beginning, Nate, we started saying like there's this idea in the 21st century, this Western idea of what happens and heaven and hell. And, you know, it's very different from what I think the Bible even says and what are ancient Hebrews. And we always go back to this, right? It's the, it's the Mike Heiser effect, right?

You want to read the Bible and understand the Bible in the same lens of those that wrote it, right? And like an ancient Hebrew. And I think that has been a huge paradigm shift, for at least for myself, and I know for Nate, as he walked through this, was understanding that. And I would love to walk through this with your, I mean, because you're just a wealth of knowledge in not only the ancient cultures, but also the ancient Hebrews and understanding what that Bible says and how we sort of mesh these things to understand what, you know, what happens. I know that Jesus speaks about it in the New Testament, right?

It talks about the father's, you know, preparing a place and he's in my father's house and all these rooms. But there's a whole side to this and it involves the understanding of the underworld. And we talked to Doug a bit about Shiole and I would love to sort of just have you opine on and give us the little expose on what your thoughts are and what we can pull from the Bible and also from these ancient cultures about what happens. lurry space when our physical bodies pass on, right? Because we talk a lot about like ghosts and the demons and, you know,

we get into these territories where people are very emphatic about, no, no, no, this is exactly what these things are. And this is, and a lot of people just, they slap generic terms on all of this, you know, and it's, but the ancients had multiple layers, multiple understanding and definitely more terms than we do. Because that's the thing that happens a lot on our channels, Derek. People just say, oh, it's demons.

And it's like, okay, that's one specific creature, you know, that's not everything. You can't just blanket statement that for everything. And so it's good to always unpack and get to know the layers and the levels and the players involved. Yeah, it's, and I'll just first one minor correction is this article is published at Prophecy Investigators. Yeah, Prophecy Investigators.org. So we love Prophecy Watchers. Even better than watching. We're investigating.

again. That's right. Troy Anderson is the fellow behind this website. So kudos to Troy for putting this together and for publishing these articles month by month. And to be honest, most of these are excerpted and then revised from books that I've written or that Sharon and I've written together. I think this was lifted mostly from our book, Giants, Gods and Dragons. What we found is we dug into the Old Testament, we were looking at the Netherworld and trying to understand it a little bit better.

There are more references to it in the Old Testament than we realized. The Mesopotamian concept of the realm of the dead was a dreary place where, you know, it was dark, and the spirits of those who had passed on depended on their descendants to feed them in the afterlife. There was a monthly ritual called Kispum, which was a key element in Amarite culture. The Amorites dominated the world of the Bible from the time of Abraham down to about the the time of the Exodus from about 2,000 BC down to about 1,500,400 BC. The Amorites pretty much controlled everything that we would look at a map today and see as Iraq, Syria, Jordan, northern Saudi Arabia, northern Iran, southern Turkey, Lebanon, Israel, northern Egypt, all of that

was Amorites. We called some of them Babylonians. We call it some of them Canaanites. They were all Amorites. The later Phoenicians, the Phoenicians, they're just Amorites. So this was their culture and their religion. And they believed that every month on the 30th of the month, which is the night of no moon on a lunar calendar, you had to summon your ancestors by calling them by name. He had to say their name. Then you would feed them and then pour out a drink offering. And the feeding was done with the tariffing. Those are the household gods, the household idols that Jacob's wife Leah stole from her father. Was it Leah or Rachel? I forget. Anyway, One of them. Yeah, they stole the eye. Yeah. So anyway, the household got the terrifying. That's what they were used for. They would literally take the bread. They would smear it on the face of the statue. That's how you fed your ancestors. And if you didn't get fed, you ceased to be in the afterlife. If there was no one to call your name every month, you ceased to be. Which is why in 2nd Samuel 18, 18, David's son, Absalom, erected a pillar for himself in the Valley of the Kings because he had no son to keep his name in remembrance. That's,

I mean, this was a really big deal. That's why Abraham and Sarah were so distressed at not having a direct familial descendant. It wasn't that they minded passing along the estate Elie Azar of Damascus. It's because they didn't have a blood descendant who would keep calling it. Because they didn't have this understanding of the afterlife that we do. They didn't have what God gave Moses and what God gave to the other Hebrew prophets and then gave through Jesus to the apostles in the New Testament about the afterlife. Abraham was living in an Amorite culture with an Amorite understanding.

So that was the netherworld. That's interesting. So, man, because you're right, but that's pre-Moses. How do you kind of make those two things live together? And this is a dumb question, but if Abraham and Sarah are practicing this ritual. Which they may well have, although we don't know. Bible doesn't say that they did or they didn't. And of course, Abraham was hearing directly from Yahweh.

So he might have said, no, no, you don't have to do that anymore. Okay. But we do know that they were distressed about not having an error. Right. Interesting. I mean, because it could even just be, I mean, there's like we do a lot of, I'm sure most people have a lot of weird superstitious things. Whether it's subliminal or not that people do as a ritualistic that don't have any, any bearing. But it's interesting to hear that because you, I think we forget that, I mean, he did. You know, he had the angel of the Lord.

And we know is the pre-incarnate Jesus. Like they hung out. And they did stuff and walked and ate together. And yet there's still this underlying undercurrent of this understanding of how the afterlife worked. Do you think that was just because they passed a lot of this information down to each other? Like they just had a better understanding of the cosmology and things that probably were more oral than per se written down?

Because obviously like today, you know, Christians just debate over. I mean, so many people in our channels don't even want to talk about things like the Book of Enoch, you know. Yeah, yeah. Which is actually written down. But you just think like there's probably oral traditions that just went back for a long time and they probably. Oh, yeah, no doubt. Preserve those. Do you think this is a watcher-based one, like where they, this was some sort of incantation thing where.

Oh, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. In fact, speaking of the Book of Enoch, there's a very important paper that has influenced me. And I was, you know, for me, this was like a, you know, a victory. I was listening to Mike Kaiser's Naked Bible podcast some years ago, and I sent him a copy of this paper, which was titled El's abode, about the abode of El, Mount Hermann, by a well-known scholar by the name of Edward Lipinski. He had made the case that the abode of El was to be found in two locations. One, which he called the Semitic Olympists, was Mount Hermann. But the other was to be found among the mountains of Armenia.

And he found clues to this in some of the older copies of the Epic of Gilgamesh and so forth. Well, the mountains are Armenia. That's the mountains of Ararat. So that makes a lot of the sense. Because, again, this is the entity L, if I'm correct in identifying him as Shemiyaz, the leader of the rebellion in Mount Hermann who would have preserved his memory by convincing the descendants of Noah. And I show that in the book, the second coming of Saturn, that this ritual of summoning spirits from the netherworld can be traced through the Hurrian people.

back to the plains of Ararat. That's fresh off of the boat. Yeah, I mean, yeah, exactly. They came down from the boat, and then they continued this practice. Oh, the gods that we used to worship, they're in the underworld now. So we need to call them at Digdis Ritual Pit and summon them from the underworld. Kind of like the medium of Endor. You remember Samuel coming up from the earth?

It's because she was using a ritual pit like the Hurrians had been doing for thousands of years in ancient Mesopotamia. Anyway, yeah, I sent this paper to Mike to point out, yeah, that Lepinski said Mount Hermon was the abode of El and Mike gave me credit for it during his podcast. Like, yes, yes. One for the layman. There we go. Derek, do you think, do you think that, so we interviewed Fritz Zimmerman on our show about the burial mounds in North America. And, you know, a lot of people speculate, like, why do they build these mounds? Obviously, some of these are three stories tall, the massive amount of earth. They're like many pyramids.

Are they portals to the underworld? I mean, is that what they are? I mean, why would they build them? And why would they build them all over the place? I'd have to speculate. I've done a little bit of reading on it, but I've certainly no expert like Fritz. Our daughter still lives in St. Louis. When I went up there last year for our annual Cubs Cardinals game, we went over to Cahawkeam Mounds,

which is where you've got Monks Mound, which is the largest mound in the United States, as far as I know. But there are a number of other mounds that have been found there. Now, they did some excavating up until the 70s, I think, and they can't do it anymore now because there are, our laws that prevent it. There's been some research done by some archaeologists and anthropologists who are looking at the orientation of the mounds. Archaeo astronomy is becoming a more respected

field. And this one fellow noticed that there's a pathway that they called a rattlesnake causeway that extends from Monks Mount to the south, goes right past a mound called Mount 72, which has got like 200 sets of remains that were found inside that mound, none of which were from people who died of natural causes. But this pathway is aligned so that as you're walking towards Monks Mound on the summer solstice, the night of the summer solstice, it looks like the Milky Way is coming right out of Monk's Mound. And so his theory is that that represented the pathway that the souls of the dead would take to the netherworld.

And there may be something to that. I don't, I've not had time to do more research on it, but I think it's the same sort of thing. It's a portal between this realm and the next. Well, that's what I'm saying is like it seems like they had some knowledge of like the ancient Hebrews had. They all did. And they, they prepared their people and they had this, we don't do that today. I mean, I guess we bury our people underground, but we don't, you know, we don't think about the things in the same sense. But it's just like, it almost seems like they're doing more than just,

building these mounds just for the heck of it, you know, which is, you know, they say the Native Americans built them. And I'm just like, it would take them forever. They wouldn't even have time to build these things. There's so many in there. They're all over the place. So it's just things there's these little clues that we get. But it, you know, we, we do hear stories of like, you know, creatures like Bigfoot go underground. And there's obsession with underground.

And the giants that people still see today come out from underground. Yeah. Yeah. Do you think these cave systems, like they're actually going down. into the ground. They're trying to get somewhere, or is it more like... Portle. You know, I, my theory is this, and this, again, is speculation, that there was a memory of the old gods from before the flood who, according to Peter and Jude, are now in chains

in gloomy darkness, in the abyss, in Tartarus, according to Peter. He was very specific about that. Yeah. That's a specific place that is not to be confused with Hades. It is as far below Hades as the earth is below heaven. And Peter used that word deliberately in 2 Peter 2, verse 4, translated in English as hell, which is not as descriptive, but Tartarus was a special place reserved for supernatural threats who, you know, to the divine order. The question that we had to address in some of our, that we've been asked, and you've got to think about it, it's like, okay, if these angels, these fallen angels are now in chains

in Tartarus, and they don't get out until the final judgment, how is it that they're still affecting things here on planet Earth on the surface? I mean, they're in chains, right? They're as far below the earth as the earth is below heaven. How can they affect? How does a mafia boss influence what's happening on the streets while he's behind bars? So we're down. Like, oh, minions.

Yeah, demons. Apparently the demons have access to go back and forth. And I think that's hinted at by some of the evidence in the Bible. In the Old Testament, for example, in Ezekiel 32, we get a description of shale that's more detailed than any other description in the Bible. And this is in the context of a polemic against the king of Egypt. And Ezekiel writes, they shall fall. He's talking about the soldiers of Egypt. They shall fall amid those who are slain by the sword.

Egypt is delivered to the sword, dragged her way in all her multitudes. The mighty chiefs shall speak of them with their helpers out of the midst of shale. Now the term mighty chiefs is Giborim, L.A. And that's the word that can mean a supernatural entity, but not necessarily. It's actually what it means is the chiefs of the Giborim is the actual translation or a better translation. Is it Gabor? Isn't that what they talked about with Nimrod when it became like a Gabor? Became a mighty man, right.

Isn't that synonymous sort of with the Nephilim or am I off here? Well, not necessarily, not always. but in the Septuagint translation, which is, let's see, what verse am I looking at here? The Septuagin is the translation that was done from older Hebrew copies of the Old Testament in the Greek by about 200 BC. So it would have been the version of the Old Testament that the apostles had access to. 32 verse 20 is what I'm looking at here. In the Septuagint, they will fall with him in the middle of those wounded by the sword

and all his strength will sleep. And the giants will say to you, come in the depth of clamor. The point here is that the giants is a reference to the chiefs of the Gibberim, the mighty chiefs. So it's clear that the Jewish religious scholars who translated the older text of Ezekiel understood that what was being referred to there as the mighty chiefs were the giants of old. And in verse 27, there's another reference to it. They slept with the giants who had fallen from eternity, who had fallen from eternity, who descended into Hades with weapons of war.

So, yeah, verse 27 in the English standard version, they do not lie with the mighty, the fallen from among the uncircumcised. And that's where you get the Gibram, Nophilim. There are some scholars to say, nofileem is mispointed. It should be the Giborim Nephilim. Not sure that that's correct. But the point is the Jewish translators, 200 years before Jesus was born, understood what was being described there. It's referring to the Nephilim. And what's interesting is that they shall speak of them, talking.

about the soldiers of Egypt with their helpers out of the midst of shale. Scholar, whose name I'm going to forget now. Anyway, read a paper on this on the geography of shale. It appears that these mighty chiefs, these spirits of the Nephalim, are given sort of a pride of place in the underworld. They're in the midst of shale. Verse 22, Assyria is there in all her company and graves all around it, all of them slain fallen by the sword whose graves are set in the uttermost.

parts of the pit. So it's like the Assyrians are, you know, at the edges. They're farthest away from the center. The center is where the chiefs of the Gibirim, the mighty chiefs are located. And who the helpers of those mighty chiefs are, you know, I don't know. Lesser ranking Nephilim, I don't know. But it's interesting that you got this picture. There's like a whole like hierarchy and structure.

Yeah. It's fascinating because I wanted to ask about like, we talk about the gate, about gates and the gates of Hades and we talk about and then in other cultures there's a river, there's the river sticks and there's these there's topography and you kind of just brought that up but like what does it apparently look like

but maybe before that if you were before Jesus we talked to Doug about this a little bit and there was a separation in the abyss between like those that believed and those that didn't and it was almost like this chasm we had talked a fair amount about that but like if you had

died pre-Jesus and you went to this place that seems to be now ruled by the Nephilim and which is the progeny of the watchers and then their fathers are locked in Tartarus and they're all kind of playing this game of telephone just like we talked about with mob boss right but like what does it what does it look like and then they're gates and is this where you went

if you were a pagan or did you go there if you were also a Hebrew how does that all work in the because I know Jesus changed things obviously but yeah Yeah. What the Bible tells us about shale is that it's a place that once you go in there, you're not coming out. Okay. You're at least not on your own power. In Job, he mentions, as the cloud fades and vanishes, so he who goes down to shale does not come up. Job 17, verse 16, will it go down to the bars of shale? Shall we descend together into the dust? So there are bars that keep the spirits in shale from getting back out. In Isaiah 38,

I said in the middle of my days, I must depart. I am consigned to the gates of shale for the rest of my years. But even with that, there's a hint that God has the power to bring people in and out. 1 Samuel 2.6, the Lord kills and brings the life. He brings down to shale and raises up. And of course, the famous verse from Job 19, for I know that my redeemer lives and after my skin has thus been destroyed, or at the last, he will stand upon the earth. And after my skin has thus been destroyed. Yet in my flesh, I shall see God. And my eyes shall, behold and not another. So there's this idea that you can get out if God allows it. Derek, I mean, this is just a thought I had. Is that why the dead in Christ raised right at that moment when Christ is crucified and the dead come out and they appear to many people

because they came out of Shaul? Like, they are set free? That's entirely possible. I mean, the whole point of the gospel, if you read First Corinthians 15, and the whole point of this war is resurrection and who gets resurrected? I mean, the Refiens, text of Eugart, this Amarite culture from about the time of the judges, was about summoning them to the threshing floor of L, where they would be revivified by the blessing of the name of L. And that gets into name theology. That's Mike Heiser's Baileywick, but it's more than just, you know, the reputation of L. It's like an aspect of him, a physical aspect. You know, my name is in him. God tells the Hebrews, follow the angel of Yalway for my name is in him. But in 1st Corinthians 15, Paul goes to, through a summary of the gospel, believe that Jesus died for your sins in accordance with the scriptures,

and that he was raised up on the third day in accordance with the scriptures. And then he appeared to Peter and then to James and then to the 12th, and then to 500 brothers. He's basically telling the church in Corinth that there's still a lot of witnesses walking around if you want to send somebody

to Jerusalem and ask. And then he says, but the whole point is that Christ was raised up for if he hasn't been raised, then we're still in our sins. and we're doomed. And he goes on through the rest of that chapter about why it's so important that we believe that Jesus was literally resurrected. He is the first fruits of the resurrection. He is the template by which the rest of us, for the rest of us, who have accepted just that simple historical fact of the death and resurrection of Christ for our sins.

We will be resurrected. You know, we shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed. And then shall come to pass that which is written, oh, death, where is your victory? death, where is your sting? That's what this is all about. Derek, do you think that there was more of a transaction in the garden? When we die, it's like Satan has the keys to lock in shale. We got tricked into it, and then when Christ is crucified, he goes there for three days, and there's some transaction that happens.

He's going through the gates himself, or he's reclaiming humanity and bringing him back. I mean, if we think about this more like a Marvel movie, that's how my mind's thinking about it more. The more the show goes on. Yeah. There's more of a narrative going on and the ancients understood what was happening. And you present this to modern day Christians and they're like, what are you talking about? This is crazy. And it's like, no, no, no. There's, there's a whole floor plan. This is at the heart. Exactly. That's what it's all about. When Adam and Eve sinned, when they rebelled against God, God said, okay, we can't let them eat at the tree of life. Okay. Why? Because if they live forever with sinful hearts, okay, if they're, immortal but sinful, what kind of world would this be? Have you ever seen the Netflix series called Altered Carbon? HBO, Westworld? I've seen Westworld. Yeah, not an altered carbon. Okay. I mean,

we don't recommend this for, you know, Christians view, especially if you've got kids in the room, do not watch either of those shows. Sharon and I will watch these things to look at the messaging. Both of those shows, I thought, did a really good job of representing how people would behave if they thought there were no consequences to their actions. In altered carbon, people could make clones of themselves as backups. And as long as you backed up your memory disk, essentially, which is in the back of your neck, you know, you'd beam the backup once an hour to a satellite, literally to the cloud. And then if something happened to you, okay, just bring another model out of cold storage,

pop the backup disc in the back of his neck. And it's like, okay, you're back. and you don't even remember that whatever happened that killed you. So if you could do that, you had the money to make an unlimited supply of backup clones, what would be the check on your action? What would keep you from doing just anything that you felt like doing if there were no consequences? So, you know, kill, rape, whatever. Doesn't matter.

They're not human. That's what Earth would be like if we all lived forever in our current condition. if the transhumanists get what they want and they somehow overcome death in our current condition, it will be hell on earth. We know that happens too, right, at the end? Because people, it says they will beg for death and it won't. Yeah, Revelation 9. And what's interesting is that death in Greek is Thanatos, which was the god of death in the Greek pantheon, he's the rider on the pale horse. They'll be begging for the rider on the pale horse and he will flee from them.

You were saying so that we weren't allowed to eat from the tree. of, you know, we made of the tree of knowledge, but the tree of life were banished from. So I was following you there. I felt like you were still going with that. If they had been granted eternal life in their fallen condition, again, it would be like living through a bad episode, just a horror or horrific dystopian science fiction film. Without consequences, right? Without consequences. Which is kind of like what the golden age was a little bit, but they're mortal, right?

Yes. And that is the golden age that certain occult secret societies want. They want to return to the golden age, you know, returns old Saturn's reign with the new breed of men sent down from heaven. The poet Virgil, that poem has been taken as prophecy by certain groups for the last 2,000 years. So the Bible says there are bars, there's gates, in some tradition seven gates. There's entities that we know that's the Nephlin or the chiefs. they rule or they guard these, there's guards to these gates. There's graves. So once you go in the grave, there's more graves in the underworld. Is there, is there a separation then? Are these,

are these people when you go there, are they cognizant that there? Are people aware that they're there? Because it sounds like a prison. You're not getting out. We know that, we know that Jesus took back the keys of death in Hades, as it says, in the Bible. Well, that's how I was wondering if the dead in Christ at that moment came out, because they were suddenly set free. I mean, could you imagine just... You know, again, that's entirely possible. It's interesting that only Matthew mentions that, which is, you know, that you'd think to be a pretty spectacular thing that everybody would, you know, all four of the gospel authors would have mentioned that. Oh, yeah, a bunch of dead people

came back and walked around Jerusalem and a bunch of people saw them. But only Matthew found that worthy of note. It was like, zombie apocalypse. And he's like, hey, guys, I don't know why he said, write this down. This is pretty significant here. Matthew, Matthew was getting blurry. That's why. He was. But I mean, there's also, Isaiah talks about like sleeping on beds of maggots with worms for covers and you get this whole idea of like decay and. Right. Yeah, that's, and of course, that's the polemic against the rebel from Eden who most Christians assume is a reference to Satan. I argue in the book the Second Coming of Saturn that it's actually a reference to Saturn who is not Satan that this is this rebel from Genesis chapter 6, Shemiyazah, the chief of the watchers, rather than the Genesis 3.

rebel, who is the Nakash, Satan. But the only picture that we really get of people in the afterlife, there's really two. There's just the incident where Saul goes to the medium of Endor the night before he's killed in battle with the Philistines. And Samuel is summoned from the netherworld. And then in the New Testament, you get the parable of Lazarus and the rich man. The beggar named Lazarus who sat outside the gates of the rich man's house begging for crusts of bread. And now he's in Abraham's bosom on one side of a chasm. And on the other side, you've got this soul of the rich man who is in torment because he'd been such a lousy human being. And he begs for an opportunity, not even to get out, just to go and warn his brother. You know, it sounds kind of like, you know,

Marley and Scrooge in Christmas Carol. I want to go back and warn my brother. He's told, no, sorry, can't allow it. I mean, look, they've got Moses and all the prophets. If they're not going to listen to them, why is he going to listen to you? So that's really the only picture we get of the afterlife other than the promises that Jesus makes where he says, look, I'm going ahead of you to prepare a place in my father's house for many mansions. So we're looking forward to the mansion someday. But a lot of this is just mystery. I mean, we've got some of the stories of their cultures around ancient Israel, but we take

that with a grain of salt because that's not divinely revealed and inspired. But yeah, there was a belief that as we see in the Old Testament, the references in Job, especially that shale is a place from which the dead do not escape unless God allows it. There are bars that keep them in. You know, there are similar stories from other cultures like in Egypt and Mesopotamia. What's interesting, Derek, is some of the early church atonement theories, like ransom theory and Christus Victor. These theories at the church kind of the closer to Christ, they had a different sort of interpretation of what happened and what was going on. What do you think about some of those early ideas where they were.

they had more of almost like this more of a spiritual warfare interpretation of what was going on. Yeah, that's an area of my research I need to do more study on, to be honest with you. I need to read more of the early church fathers. I read a few, mainly in connection with specific research

about the demons and the spirits of the Nephilim. But yeah, I need to dig more into, especially guys like Ironaeus. The Ransom Theory specifically was interesting when I was reading about that because it's like, it's almost like there's this transaction, like the devil had humanity and Christ goes down and he, he steals them back, he takes them away

from, which kind of sounds like breaking into a jail, right? Yeah. Which sounds like what we're talking about. Well, the reference in Peter, you're talking about First Peter three, beginning around verse 18, where Jesus goes down and he proclaims to the spirits in prison. Yeah. And what's interesting about that verse, and Mike has talked about this, Mike Heiser, about how disappointed he was as they were attending a church where the pastor was going through the Bible verse by verse and exeating each verse. And he got to first Peter three and said, well, this chapter is weird. So we're just going to skip it. I remember him talking about that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But we got the opportunity here. My teach on that at the Jordan River, which is really cool. Because of course, we were doing baptisms on the tour. And Peter connected baptism to the practice to this incident where Jesus descended and proclaimed. to the spirits in prison. Now the spirits, a lot of Bible teachers will say, okay, he's going down there, and he's preaching to the human dead. But the word translated spirits in English, the Greek word, is never used of human spirits unconditionally. In other words, you need another word in there

to designate that these spirits are human. And so the scholars that have looked at it said, no, these are these spirits who, as Peter notes, did not obey in the days of Noah and the flood. Like, oh, okay, this is a reference to those sons of God from Genesis 6, the watchers of the book of first. Jesus went down and declared victory over those spirits in prison. And then Peter says baptism corresponds to this. Basically, we go into the abyss because in the Old Testament, especially the sea represents primordial chaos, the abyss. And so you go in and you come out again representing resurrection. The transition, the liminal boundary between death and life represented in baptism.

You go in and you come out and again representing resurrection. I love that because I think we trivialize these things, right? And they lose, in some ways, I feel like they lose their power and you realize like, no, this is, this is like a, this is essentially like, this is like, I don't know, whatever way to say it, but kind of like flipping the bird to, to, to, to. the losers being like, look, you know, this is a victory lap. Like, how do you feel about that now? You know? It's exactly, hey, we got another one. Yeah.

So I want to ask you then like all of this context, like understanding Shul and Abraham's bosom and then what Jesus did with today be with me in paradise, my father has a house in many rooms. When we die today, there's this idea that like all of a sudden you either are in like eternal fire, which I think is a misnomer. isn't that that that's reserved for the end or you're in in heaven but there's these and I know that there's not good answers we have a little bit of we have sort of a blurry picture of this and that and yeah and the irony's not lost on me there but speculating like thoughts on like you know today when we all pass like can you just give your thoughts because I know this we don't know exactly

but like the thoughts on that based on what we know from shill and what we know what happened pre-Jesus, and maybe what happened with him creating, you know, is this new Eden almost, it seems like. And we've talked a bit about that as well on the show. Again, just speculating, and I'm just drawing this from the parable of Lazarus and the rich man, is that there must be some division in the afterlife where spirits are essentially waiting until the time at the end where God says, okay, that's it. Time now for the final end game of the age.

We see, again, the rich man who was clearly a sinner and a bad man in his life during his life is in torment and not allowed to get out, not even to warn his family and say, hey, look, you know, I deserve to be here, but you don't need to go. You don't need to be here if you just, you know, straighten up and fly right. But there's a chasm, a gulf, some separation between the spirits of the righteous and the spirits of the evil. And presumably with the gospel being clearly spelled. out in the New Testament, especially 1 Corinthians 15, verses 2 and 3, I think, where Paul describes in like two verses, the gospel by which you are being saved, those who've accepted Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior just by accepting the reality, this historic fact of his death and resurrection for our sins in accordance with the scriptures. That's it. There will be a place for them and a place for everyone else, elsewhere. We're not told, I mean, some of the answers to difficult questions like what happens to children who were too young to understand what it meant to accept Jesus? What about people who were born with some sort of cognitive defect where they

were just not mentally capable? I don't know. All we can do is trust that God is ultimately just and fair and that he is not going to condemn people who didn't willingly choose to side with the enemy. You know, we get questions from people who are terrified by end times prophecy. The mark of the beast. What happens if I've been a coma and somebody puts the mark on me while I'm unconscious? You've got to make a free will decision to reject Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. If you've accepted Christ, you cannot be condemned for something that you did not choose to do. And not making a choice, not making a choice is making a choice. Well, that's kind of what you were talking about a minute ago. And like Eden, like if we could

live forever, you know, it comes down to us willingly and actively wanting to make a choice. and mortality in a sense, it kind of puts the question on the table. You know, at some point you're going to, and a lot of people, that's, at the end of their life is when they finally make the decision, right? Like, a lot of people profess Christ on their deathbed, you know? My grandfather being one of them, you know? Well, praise God that he did because that, that is still okay. I interviewed a fellow just the other day at the Prophecy Watchers conference in Colorado Springs,

French Canadian fellow named Hugh Terrio, who's now a pastor in Idaho. He got stuck on this side of the border when COVID hit. So anyway, now he's now he's living in Idaho instead of Quebec. But his father, it's an upgrade, my opinion. Oh, yeah, absolutely. I think he thinks so too. But being raised, Roman Catholic, you're raised with this idea. And I can speak to this with a little understanding, because I married a Roman Catholic the first time around and converted to Roman Catholicism. So I had to go through the pre-Cania classes and understand all of, you know, what was, didn't have a full understanding of the difference between Roman Catholicism and the gospel. But, you know, we, we, I learned enough to know that not everybody in the Roman Catholic

Church is trusting in their catechism and the doctrines of the Vatican for their salvation. So we kind of walk softly there when it comes to that. But Hugh said, you know, quite honestly, that he, his family, his father didn't, couldn't answer the question. He said he asked priest after priest, you know, what happens when we die? How do we know where we're going to go? Well, you don't. It's basically your, St. Peter opens the book at the gates. And if you've got more of good marks than bad marks, then you're in. Well, what kind of assurance is that? What kind of blessed assurance is that? The Bible, that's not what the Bible says. It's not by works. By faith. Right. It is by grace you are saved. And through Jesus Christ alone. So Hugh was able to

witness to his father and who has, because he said, you know, for as a kid, it terrified him. He was afraid to go to sleep at night. What happened if he died in his sleep? You don't know. But that's not the gospel by which we are saved. We can know that we know that we know. We don't know what's going to happen after that last breath other than he's got a place prepared for us.

And he guaranteed that he was telling the truth by saying, okay, on the third day, I will raise this, I will raise this temple up again talking about himself. And he did. And was witnessed as Paul wrote to the. the church at Corinth, 1 Corinthians 15, 500 brothers at once saw the risen Christ, some of whom have fallen asleep, but most are still awake. Again, his point was, if you don't believe me, there are still witnesses, ask around. Paul did that, in fact, when you read the epistles carefully, you see that Paul, after his Damascus road experience and spending two years in Damascus

with the believers, and then he went and spent some time in Arabia, which we think was at Petra, but we need more research on that. He went to Jerusalem, and in the book of Galatian, he writes that he spent 15 days with Peter and with James. Why now, he's, he's been a Christian now for, you know, four years, five years, whatever. He had that experience where he had the, the experience on the road to Damascus, blinded and then miraculously healed again. Why did he go to Jerusalem and spend 15 days with Peter and James? He wanted to find out for himself, yeah, is this what I've been taught? Is this true? And then he passed that on to the church at Corinth. So you imagine the

the hangs though with those guys? I mean, two guys that walk with Jesus and then Paul. I mean, it is we get to do that someday. As long as we're talking about the afterlife. Well, that's that is the thing. And you know, Michael Lake, who's near us out here in the Ozarks, a good

friend. He has preached a couple of times about what it must be like right now as the apostles and the prophets of old who've been in, you know, and around the throne of God for the last 2,000 years, 3,000 years, leaning over the rails of heaven, wishing they could be

on the field right now where we are as we get close to the end of history. That's crazy. That's an awe-inspiring sight. Sharon wrote a poem that kind of hints at that, not a poem, a prayer in one of her novels. She's got the seven novels now in her supernatural series, The Red Wing Saga. And in the fifth book, she's got a prayer read by spoken by the butler to one of the main characters. And it is such a powerful prayer. And it evokes that image of us on the battlefield.

And, you know, Lord, give us the strength to run until we can no longer run to crawl, you know, to walk when we can no longer run to crawl when we can no longer walk and to feel our way forward when we lose side until that day when we are called home. and count ourselves among that cloud of witnesses cheering on those who are still on the field. I'm not doing it justice by trying to remember it, but it is that image, the fact that there are those witnesses, the cloud of witnesses who are looking down on this struggle that we face and cheering us on, even though we can't hear it, we can't feel it most days, but that spirit realm is real. Jesus confirmed it by prophesying his own resurrection and being the only one in history who was able to raise himself from the dead and to appear in front of witnesses. Unlike other faiths, with all due respect to Muslims, nobody else was in that cave with

Muhammad to confirm what was being said. No one was there with the Buddha to confirm that that's what was revealed to him. Christians are the only ones who are the only ones who are. who have a faith and Jews who have a faith that can be confirmed by the archaeological record, but also by the eyewitnesses who saw a man who'd been killed come back from the dead. That's the juice. And this whole war is about who gets raised up at the end. Yeah. Yeah.

That's like a, that is like a pregame speech for all pregame speaks, Derek. Think about it though. If it doesn't get you excited about the destiny on your life and also the perspective on your calling and the impact that your life can have to think that the masses of heaven that the legends of our faith the isaiah's and ezekiel's david's solomons the moses and and on even the minor provokes and give it up for habekic like those guys oh yeah those guys are are watching with anticipation you know along with our savior and the king of kings and the lord of lords and the the god of the universe you know for this i mean it's like a yeah i'm an old athlete so it just comes out and me like a like a almost like a

pre-game speech from a coach that gets you fired up, want to run through a wall, right? It's, there's a lot of heaviness there too, but I think like in responsibility, and I don't want to lose that either, that there is a responsibility in our lives with our own calling. But what a hope we have,

you know, and what I hope we have in grace, too, for our shortcomings that we, the guy, and that's why I love about the Bible too, Derek, coming full circle, is that all the heroes of the Bible were complete screw-ups. And, you know, they really, It really were.

Yeah, they were. And we, you know, we can look back and say, man, the guy to use those guys unto, unto measures past their own abilities and he can use us. Yeah. Yeah. Derek, I had a couple questions for you. You know, when we talk to guys like Tim Alberino,

you know, he likes to put things in practical terms, like who's flying these UFOs? You know, they're going in and out of mountains and whatever the end out of the ocean. Well, he's, you know, he has a very practical answer for these things. Do you think, like, you can, like, these gates, because clearly they're being locked away, but if these gates open up, they're going to terrorize Earth.

They're not going to terrorize a spiritual realm. They're going to terrorize us, our realm. So is there somewhere down in the earth? If you could get down there, you could break open. Like someone's trying to physically rip these gates open. Can we get there? Is it possible for... Get on those Elon Musk mold digger things?

Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Or if, you know, CERN rips a hole in the time space, fabric of time and space, nothing is going to open that God doesn't allow. Nothing is going to open that God doesn't allow. But it's like a physical place, you know? Yeah, I believe so.

But just like Eden, we argue in our book, Giants, Gods, and Rehneration, actually. In veneration, we argue that Eden is still on Earth. It is Jerusalem. You know, we reached the same conclusion as Carl Gallops. Carl wrote about that in the gods of Ground Zero. but we came at it from a different direction. But it's just in a dimension that we can't perceive anymore. Chuck Misler used to write about and talk about how we lost access to dimensions four through

11 at the fall. Quantums. Right. And, you know, Josh Peck, this is his territory. This is why I think these craft appear to violate the laws of physics. They're just moving in more dimensions that we have access to now. A day will come and we do have access to those dimensions again. And we'll see that there's more reality around us than we realize.

But for now, we're limited. I am convinced that nothing is going to open that God doesn't allow to open. CERN is not going to rip a hole open to the abyss and allow things through that God isn't going to allow. I mean, as Mike said, look, we Christians, many of us who are into the connection between the spirit realm and the UFO phenomenon. I look back at the 1947 Babylon, working of Jack Parsons and Elron Hubbard. But if we're afraid of entities who need the permission of a couple of sexual deviance doing rituals in the desert to enter our time space domain,

we're really not understanding the nature of the spirit realm very well, because those things are pretty lame. I think those portals will not open until the church is called out of here. I think we're getting deep into the book of Revelation before those. kinds of things happen. We will see, I think, more supernatural things happening on this world leading up to that. But I think the really big stuff like the Revelation 9 opening of the abyss or these these portals that supposedly CERN is going to rip a hole open to, that's not going to happen until we're getting close to God himself appearing on the battlefield.

Visual, you have a visual. You can kind of sort of read the stories. But, you know, doing your research, I mean, you uncover how the ancient people in all these different areas were interacting with different lesser gods. How do you think that they interacted with those entities? Do you think that it was like very, very much like, because oftentimes, you know, we're always like, where is God in the middle of our life? Because it seems as though as God is always, it's difficult. We go through a lot of trials and tribulations, and we all have lack of faith at moments. I mean, you have to think of like, well, these ancient people and these other cultures, like, how are they interacting with their gods? Because if they're building this stuff and they're, and they have these names and they do these rituals, there must be something going on.

And I think that the modern academic answer is they were just doing drugs and they didn't see any. People back then were just crazy. And I'm like, no, no, no. There must have been something going on. And how do you think that these entities interacted with? pagan nations? Well, physically, we know from the book of Hebrews that we can entertain angels unawares, so they can appear as human entities. But I kind of dealt with this a little bit in my first book, just kind of hinted at it, and we'll probably get into this more in the

book that we're working on now. Why in the ancient world, especially what was probably the pre-flood world, in the ancient Near East, and again, I'm talking about, talking about if you're looking at a map today, you know, Syria, Jordan, Israel, Iran, Turkey, etc., that ground zero for the earliest interactions between humanity and the spirit realm. Why was there such a fascination with head shaping? I stumbled on that by accident back in 2017 when I was researching my first book. I don't know if you've ever looked, those little lizard-like figurines from ancient Iraq near Eradu in the city of Err. The little lizard-like, they're humanoid, but they've got pointy heads and they're reptilian.

And yet they're doing mammalian things, like some of them depict these little figurines to pick a mother suckling a young. Okay, well, that's a mammalian thing. And yeah, she's clearly reptilian. She's got these coffee bean-shaped eyes on a pointy head. But the human remains that date to that period of history, going back like 5,000 BC, using their standard archaeologists dating to about 10 or 12,000 BC, it seems that it was universal. Everybody was trying to reshape their heads into those kind of points.

So why? I theorize, can't prove it, that they were seeing entities, that they believed were their gods, and they were trying to emulate that. That's speculation. I'm not going to build a doctrine based on that, but I think that's who we're looking at. And when you consider that in the Old Testament, you got a couple places where, and we dealt with this and giants, gods, and dragons, the word Nakash serpent used interchangeably with the word seraphim, indicating that there's some sort of a connection between those. Seraphim, the

burning ones, it's based on a verb that means to burn. So you've got what, these things that are flaming reptilian snakes, flying snake things. Yeah, so flying snake things that are on fire or can breathe fire. Well, that sounds like a dragon. Yeah. That may be one of the forms that spirits in the spirit realm take. You know, the cherubim are pretty well described by Ezekiel, you know, the four-faced entities, human, lion, ox, eagle. The seraphim are different, appear to be these flaming, perhaps serpentine entities. Where do we get that idea? Why is the imagery of the throne guardians in the ancient Near East looking like a sphinx or a bull-like sphinx so consistent from Egypt to the Canaanites to the Assyrians to the Mesopotamians? It's very

consistent imagery. When Ezekiel describes what he saw in Ezekiel chapter one, that was imagery that would have been familiar to anyone in ancient Mesopotamia. Oh yeah, that's a throne of a god surrounded by his throne guardians. So no, no, that's the throne of the god. And he's doing it right over the temple of your chief god. So I don't know. I think there were long memories of these interactions that date back to the pre-flood era. We are really looking forward to when Judd Burton and Aaron Juddkins complete that book on Gobeckley-Tepe. I just hope they do it before October when we get to go see of Quebecly-Tepa. Good for you.

That's awesome. Yeah, I know. Yeah. But I got a quick question on that, just a follow-up. Do you, this always gets me too. Like, because we have these interactions in the Old Testament with Moses and God and Abraham and God and walking with God and these physical interactions. Do you think it was, was it the appearance of Jesus and his consequential, you know, resurrection?

did it push a lot of stuff behind the veil, in your opinion? I think when you're talking about these interaction between humans and maybe the 70 over the nations or these demigods, after the flood even, where we had these, it would appear you have these interactions. You know, they'd be in the Bible and the biblical with, did something, in your opinion,

did something happen there where these sort of face-to-face, what we'd almost consider to be physical interactions between entities and humans, did that get pushed? Do you think a lot of stuff got pushed behind the veil with the appearance of Jesus? Or do you think the dust stuff just went underground? Like maybe it still happens in that same way. So I'm curious.

I'm curious just what your thoughts on maybe did the spiritual realm or the interaction between the physical and spiritual change somewhat with Jesus reclaiming dominion? I don't know how to put that really. Well, it may have. It may have. It may also be that the fallen realm took a different approach after the resurrection. In my book, Bad Moon Rising, I theorized that the resurrection, well, actually, I don't think that parts of theory. I think the resurrection took the fallen realm by surprise. They didn't expect him to come back from the dead. Paul wrote, again, in First Corinthians, and I forget, it's chapter two or chapter six, it's one or the other, where he writes, if the archons, if the rulers of the age had understood the mystery that God was revealing through the apostles, they would not have crucified the Lord of Glory.

They didn't understand that they were sending him to complete his mission. Fully divine, fully human. It's got to be a human sitting on the throne of earth, as it were. The Antichrist will only be half and half at most. Or he'll maybe be fully human, but he's completely possessed by the spirit of Antichrist. But Jesus was both, fully divine and fully humans. He was able to fulfill that sacrifice. He lived with the law perfectly, was raised up again.

Maybe something changed at his resurrection. maybe the power of the resurrection changed something, or maybe those entities who had been placed over the nations after the Tower of Babel incident, the Deuteronomy 32-8 worldview, maybe they decided to adopt a different approach. Okay, let's pull back and over time we'll convince these humans, we'll seed little ideas so they'll develop their science

to where they think that science is the only form of truth. It's like the line from the usual suspect. which is taken from a total. Kaiser, sozate, baby. Yeah. Right. The greatest trick the devil ever pulled. Convincing the world that doesn't ask this, right?

But it also makes this, you know, something we can't quantify as the effect of the Holy Spirit, right? The Holy Spirit probably subdues a lot of this, and we just don't understand that, you know? The restrainer, yeah. And the more we carry God and light in the darkness, the harder it is. And so it does feel like the world changes, but it could just be the proliferation of, of the spirit of God in more people walking around. Well, you know, that's a really interesting point because one of the things that surprised us in the research for giants gods and dragons, because one of the things that we wanted to do in that book was identify the four horsemen of the apocalypse. It started out as a book just about the four horrorsmen and we decided to broaden it a little bit.

But we named the entities from the Greco-Roman pantheon that we thought were meant by John in the description of the four writers. Apollo was one of those four. We think that Apollo is the rider on the white horse. There's some clues in the description that point of that. But what's really interesting is that Apollo was the god of oracles in the ancient world. The Oracle at Delphi was the most famous, but there were a number of oracles of Apollo scattered around the Mediterranean. They were regularly consulted by the Roman aristocracy, including the emperors for guidance. Should we go to war with Parthia? Ah, the Oracle says yes. We're like, Magic 8 ball, you know, science point to E.S. But when we got toward the end of the third

century and it became obvious that, and this is documented by, you know, some pagan writers, but also some Christian historians like Lactantius and Eusebius, I think, but Lactantius, I think, is where I got this, that the oracles of Apollo were falling silent. They could no longer communicate. In fact, it's, and yes, it is Lactantius. like Tantius was like the spiritual advisor to the Emperor Constantine, so early 4th century, so just maybe 15 years, 20 years after this happened, the most intense persecution of Christians did not come under Nero in the first century. It came under Diocletian in the 3rd century, the end of the 3rd century, because Diocletian and his junior emperor, Galerius, had gotten upset that

according to one of the oracles, and this was one in Syria, that they could no longer communicate because of the righteous men, which was a reference to Christians. And there was a, let's see if I can find this here, because this is really phenomenal. Nothing here. There was an inscription that was found. Okay, in the year 299 AD, Galerius heard an oracle from the temple at Apollo, the Temple of Apollo near Antioch, complaining that the righteous men on earth were a bar to his speaking the truth. And that prompted Emperor Diocletian to purge all of the Christians out of the army. In the year 302, Diocletian sent a soothsayer to another oracle on the west coast of what is now Turkey. And that soothsayer replied something similar. We, you know, we're not getting any messages

from Apollo anymore because of what's going on here. And so Diocletian and Galerius imposed the most intense persecution of Christians in the history of the Roman Empire. But by the year 311, Diocletian retired, Galerius got sick and died. Constantine took over after winning the power struggle that followed and issued the edict of Milan and made Christianity a legal in the empire. But one of the last known messages from Apollo came from the oracle at a city called Clarice in the late second or early third century, so sometime around the year 200, preserved on a wall and an ancient Greek city in southwestern Turkey. And assuming that the writing is genuine, it reads this, and it's really remarkable. Self-produced, untought, without a mother,

unshaken, a name not even to be comprised in word dwelling in fire. This is God, and we, his angels, his messengers are a slight portion of God. So now, Lactantius, Constantine's spiritual advisor, said, okay, self-produced. Can't be Jupiter, the king of the Roman pantheon. He was born of Saturn and his wife, whose name was Ops, I think, untaught without a mother. Okay, again, they know the genealogy of Jupiter, so it couldn't be him. A name not to be comprised and we're dwelling in fire, okay?

That's a description from the Old Testament of the ancient of days. This is God and we, his angels, are a slight portion of God. So if this is an authentic oracle of Apollo and it appears to be, it's like an admission that the God of the Bible, Yahweh, he's the only one, the only God of the ancient world who claimed to be self-produced without a mother. And we're just a slight portion of him. And again, as the faith in Jesus Christ spread around the Roman world, around the Mediterranean world, the oracles of Apollo went silent one by one, went silent and that's documented.

It's history. It's like the mission of defeat. It's like the batteries ran out. Fantastic. That's fantastic. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

The walkie talk is done failed. But now we're in a world where we are seeing certain groups commemorate those who fallen in violent encounters with the police by repeating the ancient Amarite ritual of saying their names and then pouring out a drink offering. And they don't know what they're doing. It's crazy. They know not what they do. I think it's, that's what I was saying before.

I think it really is all the above. I think you guys make an unbelievable point that like the proliferation of the Holy Spirit, I think shut down a ton of this stuff, right? And I also think that they're in that, those that have been around for ages, you know, in darkness are also, is the proliferation? of as well of the enlightenment and academia and the science as God that

we you they'd much prefer than rather than to show up and walk and get followers to just it's it's it's the Kaiser Sozee to make everybody think that none of this exists none this is real and you are your knowledge is the extent of all knowledge right

and that also is the is the same it's the same path to to destruction and you know in coming full circle here it's the it's the same path as as the pagan path to to shoal into into the to being on the wrong side of the of the of the of the of the chasm it's fair i mean just it's fascinating derrick i always love having you on because i feel like it's just like we get to open up the encyclopedia and listen to it you know without having to thumb through and find the tabs because it's it's yeah it's just i feel like we just get to learn and you know neda we joke about being big dummies there's some

truth to that, but I think that's why we do this. We want to get people who have done the 10,000 hours and the research, and so just, I mean, it's awesome where this went because I love the mountain stuff and I love trying to understand the after world the best we can, and then even understanding the sort of the

strategies of the enemy and how that changes. And again, it all comes back to Jesus, right, which is the amazing thing, and the hope in all of this. So, again, thanks so much for this. and the seriousness of the cosmology.

I think when you understand the cosmology, you take the story more serious. It's not this oblivious, like, it's not this, like, oh, we think this stuff. It's like there's actually, there's actually more concrete truths to this war that we're in than we want to admit.

And I think a lot of people who listen to our show start to wake up to that. Like, man, this is serious. We're in this, we're in this war. We're in this battle. And then they have a lot of a spiritual, their heart, they like, they constantly email us, but I'm coming back to God.

Oh, because, you know, when you start to see things, whether it's as silly as scene of, you know, not silly, but is it simple as seeing something like a Bigfoot versus like having some kind of spiritual encounter with, because that's what a lot of people say when they see these creatures to understanding, well, this is just one part of a, of a whole, a whole world of things that are happening behind the scenes that you might not have ever considered. but yeah, we love giving more context to the cosmology that helps you understand how to like do something in this war, pick up some kind of a weapon. And it's, Judd Burton has been really inspirational in this too. And I know you guys are going to talk to him tomorrow night. But when I gave my talk in Colorado in the big room, I mentioned that the judge's answer to the question, why does any of this matter? You know, we talk about the giants. Okay, they're weird and that's strange and that's cool. And, you know, it's because it's fringe and it's, you know, it's knowledge that we ought to have. Why does it matter? Why does it, why should we care? And and Judd said, two words. Cessaria Philippi, which is the Grotto of Pan at the base of Mount Hermann. That was where he asked Peter and the disciples,

who do you say that I am? And it was right there that Peter said, well, you're the Christ, the son of the living God. And Jesus confirmed it. Ah, blessed are you, Simon Barjona, for this has not been revealed to you by men, but by my father in heaven. And on this rock, standing in front of a 9,000 foot mountain, that everyone in the ancient world knew was where L was, you know, lived with the gods of the world, the 70 gods of the nations, I will build my church.

And the gates of hell, which is this big cave right over here that everyone knows is the entrance to the Netherworld will not prevail against it. He specifically took them there for that. It wasn't like they stopped there on their way from Tyre to Damascus or anything. He had gone back from Tyre and Sedone to the Sea of Galilee and taught and preached there. And then he made a special trip up there. That's a 30 mile walk. A special trip to do, to make that point right there

at a place that was more full of spiritual significance in the ancient world that we moderns understand. You might say it was pregnant. Yes. Of all kinds of meaning.

That's a famous Jed quote. Well, thanks, Derek. Appreciate it, buddy. Yeah. No, I really enjoyed it. I love talking to you guys. Well, let everybody know what you, again, and we talked a bit about it before, but love you got a chance to talk to people about what you're doing. And then, I mean, you're digging up these hidden gyms of podcasts, too,

with the likes of Tom Horn and let everybody know where they can find what you're doing, what you're working on, and where they can find some of these things that you kind of led to show off with. Sure. Gilberthouse.org is our main hub, if you will, Gilberthouse.org. And you can find a link for the free mobile app there. It works on iOS, Android, Amazon, Kindlefire, tablets and phones. But it's also, we've got an app for Roku and Apple TV app as well. So you've got one of the set-top boxes that'll get you all of the content.

And there we've got our weekly Bible study every week, the Gilbert House Fellowship, our two video programs, Unraveling Revelation, well, actually three video programs, Unravel Revelation and Cy Friday, but also now my weekly podcast, of view from the bunker is doing video and that's going there as well. But all of the audio archives for that and now we're starting to upload the audio archives to PID Radio, which is the podcast that started all of this back in 2005. We'd written a couple of novels and we were pitching to publishers this idea that we would write stories independently, but we would share characters in the same fictional universe.

And there was a publisher who put out her first two novels, Wounds of Evil and the Armageddon's strain and they were editing mine and they kind of got cold feet. You guys have crop circles in here and government conspiracies and stuff. It's like, yeah? Yeah. Well, government conspiracies weren't quite as popular with Christian publishers when George W. Bush was president. Do you think? They were more popular when Clinton was president and later when Obama, but when George, you know, when you're going to the big Christian bookseller convention and you've got these life-sized stand-ups of George W. Bush pitching books, the faith, of our president.

Okay, yeah, talking about FEMA camps and government surveillance was not as popular, so we parted ways. But the podcast that we had started to tell people why they should buy our novels, like by the second episode, became a podcast about the stuff that we were writing about.

So conspiracies, things going on behind the scenes, and then we started interviewing people, and that's how we got to meet. Mike Heiser, L.A. Marzuli, Stan Deo, Tom Horn, and that's led to where we are now. So gilberthouse.org will get you to the app and it'll get you to all of our other websites as well. But the app is where all the content will go.

And we're just in the early days of going back and bringing back the classic PID radio, which stands for peering into the darkness, which is really what we're doing, just trying to report back and say, hey, as you guys said, this is a real war that we're in the middle of. So let us take this seriously.

Thanks, Derek. Dude, I love it. Like you guys, you know, it's guys like you. and Judd Burton and Mike Heiser, and these guys have really laid the groundwork for guys like us to come along. And so we're grateful for you, man. We're grateful for your friendship

and for this community that you have taken us into your community. This is really your guys' space. So thanks for letting a couple knuckleheads from, you know, live in Tennessee. Yeah. And thanks for coming on and just being you, man. We can't thank you enough for that.

Yeah. We're sad you missed Timcon. but maybe BlurieCon. Yeah, well, that's okay. You know, well, there you go. There you go. We'd be up for that. Let's go.

Yeah, we're, uh, we had a lot of people email us and tell us that. So maybe next year we're going to do, we're to do a party here in Nashville and get, get, get, yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah, I can get blurry. The older I get the blurry. So that's, uh, let's go. Let's go.

Thanks, Derek. Yeah, Derek. Hey, don't forget. Irony, irony and myth. needs to have it at one point oh yeah look forward to it thank you Derek

appreciate you brothers you bet thank you thank you see you there