Blurry Creatures - EP: 150 Missing 411 the UFO Connection with David Paulides

Episode Date: February 1, 2023

This week we welcome author and filmmaker David Paulides of the Missing 411 series. David is a former police officer and investigator who spent the greater part of the last 20 years documenting unsolved cases of people who have gone missing in the national parks and wilderness of North America. Who or what is taking people without a trace? The creator and producer of three Missing 411 documentaries, David just released his most recent project, Missing 411: The UFO Connection.  In this groundbreaking film, he presents empirical evidence connecting UFO phenomena to a subset of mysterious disappearances. Join us as we chat with David about his theories and insights into these fascinating and bizarre cases, the irrefutable connections between these missing people, and find out how his investigations and interviews around these mysterious disappearances have changed his views on what is happening in the wilds of North America.  Intro Song: Dreamkid83 Guest: David Paulides https://www.canammissing.com [e-mail] blurrycreatures.com Socials www.instagram.com/blurrycreatures www.facebook.com/blurrycreatures www.twitter.com/blurrycreatures Music Kyle Monroe: www.tinytaperoom.com Aaron Green: https://www.instagram.com/aaronkgreen/ Mastering: Brandon Weaver https://ironwingstudios.com Outro Song: TimeCop1983: www.timecop1983.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Luke so often, people email us and they have this story. They're out in their woods and they're looking in the bushes and they got, What's that? And when you are pouring your dog food and your dog's bowl, that's the last thing you want to say. What is that? What is the stuff coming out of this bag? You know, I don't think a lot of us think about maybe what we feed our dogs. And that's why we partner with rough greens.

Most of us would love to have our dogs, you know, live as long as possible. I mean, I just lost my dog in December. And I would have just, I would have loved more time with Carl. And one of the things you can do to get more time with your dog is to feed them better. Dog owners don't usually realize that live nutrients, that their dog is, needs to thrive or missing from the food. You just talked about. What is that, right? That's where Rough Green comes in. It's America's number one dog supplement that you sprinkle on top of their food. It's packed with prebiotics, enzymes, omega oils, and 20 live vitamins and mineral support digestion,

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Just cover the shipping. Go to roughgreens.com and use discount code blurry. That's RUFFF greens.com discount code blurry. Rough Greens makes any dog food better. The answers or the conundrum is easier to explain. and others, it's not. Now, the biggest cluster of missing people that fit our profiles is Yosemite.

Now, the biggest location for the most condensed granite in the world, Yosemite. Now, I knew that right away, but I didn't know until other people, much smarter than me, started to explain that

granite has certain elements about it that no other stone or rock has. And the way it conducts its the amount of quartz in it, et cetera, et cetera. It's just different. So is that the reason that all of these things are happening around Yosemite, or is it something else? Is it that between these giant, giant pieces of granite,

there's a river that runs right in between them, the Merced River. Well, there's water and there's granite. Is there something about that that opens a portal or opens up something that we don't understand? The history of our Earth is so different from what we can imagine. Joy to join. joy to join.

The Smithsonian, that if they found out about a large skeleton somewhere, was to go get it. I'm going to assume at least one person is right, because if one person's right, it's right to bust the paradigm. It all goes back to the fallen church. And the problem with the modern day church, they have a very truncated view of the supernatural. This backdrop that's just pregnant with all kinds of meaning associated with this Mount Herman event. And this guy defects from the kingdom.

That's a big deal. Welcome back. Welcome back. It's blurry creatures. That's where we are, dude. Blurryverse. Welcome. And today we have a really good one for you.

David Politis from Missing 411. Coming on the show finally, we have been emailing Dave since the show started. We've warmed down. It's an honor. I think you and I both have been fans of Missing 411 and Dave's work. You know, I have a predate this podcast by it. ton and this one of the things we talked about initially was you know even we were talking about the big foot realm was wanting to get one to get dave to come on the show and talking about you know

the phenomena of these missing people because it's such a he's such a measured empirical and really law enforcement approach to eliminating plausibility for these cases and you know he came out with this film this year missing 411 the UFO connection and it just i mean it just felt it's just the right time. I feel like in our story, too, to, you know, and really in this time, in this day and time, to talk about the connection between missing people and UFOs. And we've done a bunch on the show, Nate. We've had

everyone from Tim to actual people that have been abducted, to members' episodes of being offered the blue drink by the grays, to, you know, now to these, to this subset of cases that is just, you know, phenomenal in every sense of the word.

Yeah, it's funny, because, like, you think about, a podcast and you think about where your mind is when you start a podcast and where your mind is after episode 150 and this is going to be episode 150 i was just thinking about that loop 150 episodes of blurry creatures and we got david politas on and i think it's taken me 150 episodes to even understand some of his work he's been doing this for a long time two decades he's been in the space he's been you know part of mufon which is the ufo stuff and when we started this show i didn't know a whole lot about aliens i didn't know a lot about abductions i didn't know a lot about these things

And so it's really good to, you know, have 150 episodes to prepare for an interview like that. So pretty pumped. Like, this one's going to be a good one. Really lucky to get Dave on the show. You know, he's been on Coast to Coast radio and he's been on the had his own history channel show. So Dave's done some pretty big stuff. He's got three documentaries out. Yeah, we're just super thankful that he gave us some time.

He's a busy guy. So I love it. Let's get blurry. Let's get blurry. We stay blurry all day, Luke. You and I are just blurry 24 now. never turn it off. Just a fire hose of juice. Yeah, and if you want to get the extra juice, go to blurrycreatches.com slash members, get the extra juice, and you can get access to all the

bonus material, chat rooms, chats, all kinds of things. Yeah, extra content, extra episodes, discounts on merch. And one of the big things, too, Nate, is the first crack at event tickets, right? So we've got BlurieCon coming up in less than a month, and a matter of weeks at this point. And those went directly to our members. So there are going to be more events, and we've kind of alluded to that. And this gives you really an inside track to join us as we get super 80s and super blurry and talk to the experts in person. And we're doing that here in Franklin, Tennessee at the end of February.

And there's be things down the pipe that you are going to want to have a first shot at. And in addition to everything we've talked about, membership allows you to have the first shot at that stuff as well. Sure does. All right, well, let's get Dave on the show. So welcome to the podcast, the legend David Politis. You're a former San Jose police officer. And we are NorCal natives. So we know I grew up in Sacramento and Luke was in Chico.

So we know the Northern California area. You're a bestselling author and now a documentarian. Released several films. A lot of them I've watched and love these films. You've been investigating missing person cases for over 20 years. years and you've researched over 7,000 cases and your new movie missing 411, the UFO connection is right where we are with our show, Dave. Thank you for coming on, blurry creatures and talking about this film.

Hey, guys, it's an honor to be on, and I appreciate the interest very much. We were kicking off, like, how to start this conversation. I think one of the questions we, Luke and I had before you got on was, when in your investigations, did you start noticing there was a UFO connection? and has the government sort of disclosure and some of these things that are happening now kind of allowed you to be more vocal about some of your theories in terms of the UFO being connected to the missing 401-month phenomena? So I've been a Mufant investigator for almost 17 years,

so I've always had an interest in the UFO topic, abductions, what people are saying, and once something is definitively pointing to a cause, I'm not going to take that big leap and say, oh, it is. So we just kept accumulating data, kept going through cases, and developing these things called profile points. And profile points are something that are found in the majority of the cases that we research. And the most common one is that you bring a canine to the scene and they can't pick up a cent,

where you bring professional trackers to the scene, and they won't be able to track the person from the point that they were last seen. Now, thinking along those lines, the first 50 I saw like that, it baffled me because I worked on a team that the canines were attached to. And I'm not kidding, 100% of the time, the canines went out, we got the person. So when I started to read about these things, it didn't make any sense at all. And then the more I got into it, the more I found out how prevalent this is. So keeping that in the back of your mind, as we went forward, we started to look at all the commonalities that these things had. So weirdly, let's say two hunters go into the woods, and they're coming up to a mountain.

They say, hey, you go left, I'll go right. I'll meet you on the backside of the mountain. Well, between that point and the point that the other hunter reaches the backside of the mountain, the other hunter disappears. and the point of separation is two people together separating, going their own separate ways for whatever reason. A lot of times it's just, hey, we're going to go explore different places. A lot of other times it's somebody feels ill and they're going back to the car. And it's when that happens, something odd goes on.

A person disappears and it's unexplainable. And it's almost as though something is watching and waiting for this person. point of separation. It's very, very, very rare that two people disappear, and it's almost non-existent that three people disappear together. The vast majority of these cases, it's one person hunting alone. And in the movie, we had information about a certain area of Wyoming where there was a lot of people missing, and nobody ever put it together, but just looking at the names, I could see that they were all German, which is... And we kept backing up we went into Idaho and we knew that a case we worked on in the first movie was in Idaho.

And then we found some hunters that observed a UFO hovering above them in the middle of nowhere, Idaho. And then we found a case where there's a group of workers for Warehouser Corporation, and they're planting trees in the ground up on this hillside just outside of Mount St. Helens. There's 15 guys on this ridge, and they see a U.S. UFO, fly up this valley, hover over some, all the elk's dispersed except one. It goes down, it picks up the elk, carries the elk away. The hunters talked about were all elk hunting, and they were all German. Sometimes it feels like when you get that phone bill, it's like the crash site document.

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We talk a lot about it on our show, Dave, about, we talk about the DNA aspect of ancient history and sort of we we joke a lot that our show could be called DNA wars and as I was watching this documentary I kept thinking about the German descent you have these abductions whether it seems like it's reproduction it's DNA oriented what are your thoughts how is your thoughts progressed about what they're doing are they doing breeding programs because we brought on people who've been abducted and they've been pregnant and then they go up and then they come back and they're missing pregnancies I know the elk was pregnant you said you said you found the elk, or they found out I was pregnant. So there's some similarities between reproduction, bloodlines, and in this whole UFO abduction phenomenon. Yeah, and then Carl Higden comes back and says he doesn't, he thinks that they, well, his abduction story comes back and says he doesn't think he was kept, which is really crazy, like, to think that the people are getting kept because he had a vasectomy.

Yeah, exactly. What do you make of that? I've asked on since we interviewed him. And he was a super smart guy, sharp for being as old as he was. And when he said, yeah, you know, I think the reason they didn't keep me is because I had a vasectomy. And I said, well, the implication being that they would have kept you, had you not had it?

And he said, yeah, I think so. And then the other hunters that we talked to their families about, they did not have vasectomies. We interviewed one on film about that. I don't know. It's a pretty odd coincidence that works along the lines of your thinking. And then the elk thing is bizarre, too, Dave. It's like, I mean, you know, no Carl's testimony was that they were, you know, they're coming to get deer and elk and then fish for food. But, I mean, I just think it's what you put together is fascinating. It's more than coincidence, right? they're all German.

They're all elk hunting. It's just like mind-boggling. I keep this thought that back in the 70s, Colorado State was doing a study on chronic wasting disease. And a couple of elk got loose right near the Wyoming border. Chronic wasting disease in the United States, believe it or not. And it's essentially in every county now in Wyoming. Wyoming has some of the most vast coverage of it

in the North American properties. In chronic wasting disease, it's a prion disease, same as mad cow disease, very similar in mad cow disease, in that it's always fatal. And mad cow disease was told by the government in Europe that would never cross over to man. So don't worry about it. What eventually did is it did cross over and it killed hundreds of people. So they killed 14 million cows in Europe because of this. now here if you read like Wyoming

Montana any of these fishing game sites and they talk about chronic wasting disease it says do not eat the animal if it comes back with the disease but then there's another paragraph that says it's never been known to cross over to humans but why would they say don't eat it if it didn't cross over to humans

or if they weren't distinctly afraid it was going to Now, in the elk case in Washington, these workers see this elk taken by this UFO, and Mufon comes out, does an investigation, and then they're told by a warehouser that their property has been identified as a point by the Washington Fish and Game as an area that has many, that's pretty unusual because Washington isn't claiming at this point that they have any Kri-Nak wasting at all. but they privately tell warehouser this. And there's UFO. Now, in the biggest area with the most chronic wasting disease in the United States, where Higden was taken in southeast Wyoming, we have this huge number of hunters, all hulk hunters, that have been taken. Now, is something monitoring our food sources and how that affects us?

That's the question I have. because yeah the multiple accounts of people being on craft with the elk or at least in Carl's case you know he sees he says he's there with them and then he comes back and that's what he's saying you know he's concerned about the elk when he's like coming to do you think that you know I was when I was watching that are you trying to build a case that maybe this is how the humans are being abducted the same way that this elk was taken maybe that's how they're taking people you know I just kind of report in Carl's case one of the few abduction cases where there's any physical evidence at all, namely lung lesions before he was abducted.

He comes back and his doctor looks at his lungs and they're completely clean. Then he had a bullet that he shot at some elk while he was hunting and it says that it hit this invisible barrier. And when it hit the barrier, he went down and picked up the bullet. He still had the bullet. It was analyzed by Wyoming Department of Natural Resources. You have his lungs, you have the bullet, you have him missing. And one thing we couldn't fit in the film is the location where he parked his truck was moved. And they found his truck in the middle of a swamp in that forest with no tire tracks going in, no tire tracks coming out. Wow.

And that's something we hear a lot on the show, as abductees will say, they come back, you know, they're like on a different side of the room or they're up there in the bed upside down or they they they'll say to us they don't feel like they're being put back in the same way and it almost feels like when the when these people are taken they're like dropping stuff out of this craft as they're going to and from and then they or they'll put it back almost and it's it's like scattered around it's like they don't even care they do you feel like something like that is happening i know i know you like to stick to the facts but it seems like they're dumping out it It has that feel.

So there was a huge epiphany moment to the crew and myself. And they said, well, the next thing I remember is getting the feeling of falling. And I hit this mountainside and I rolled down and I hurt my shoulder. He goes, that's how they got rid of me. In the stories that I've written, and I've written about 12, 1,400 people, a lot of times there's somebody is claimed to have fallen to their death. they fall in an area that doesn't make any sense, or the angle of the hillside is so small that it doesn't make sense

that they would fall and get that seriously injured. Yet if I dropped you, say, 20 feet above that very small angle, it would have looked like you fell and you died to hit your head, whatever. But there's a lot of these cases that I've written about in the past that don't make any sense. When Carl explained how they got rid of them,

it's like a light bulb went off in my head. Dave, there was the one you pointed out in the film with the, was the Boulder Field where I can remember who was found there, but they found... It was like 50 years later, right? Yeah, they found, or a number of years later, they find the body in a space that they... Is your name of Ray? His name is Ray, I think, right?

Yes. Yeah, he was... Was that Ray Salman? Was that his body? No, no. Ray Salmon's never been found, but... Yes, okay. Ray owned a gas station in Idaho. He went out in bow hunting, and he disappeared. And the hunters that saw the UFO in Idaho actually knew Ray, and their dad knew Ray.

And every year that they went out hunting, they would look for him. So when Ray disappeared, there was a massive search by the sheriff and friends of his and Sam in Idaho. And every year, for 50 years, people went out into this theory. He disappeared. And then last year, or two years ago, the same place that's been searched. a thousand times. All of a sudden, his body, those remains turned up at the bottom of this boulder field. So weird.

Dave had a question on that. In your previous films in the hunted and in the original, after doing this film, are you looking backward and seeing a lot of these same earmark things in those cases? Or is it that you've thought this? You talk about being a part of Mufon for 17 years. You've thought about this all along. And this film was the culmination of those two pieces of work.

and then presenting new cases you hadn't talked about. But are you, you think you're drawn pretty much the same sort of conclusions now in like the hunted and in the original? Because it seems a lot of the same. Like people find backpacks and folded clothes and bodies are showing up places. You know, it's the same thing. And I know you talk about, you know, 1,500 or so cases over the last 10 years that fit all these profiles.

Are you looking back and saying this could be UFO or is this this one saying, hey, this is what on the body of work in the first two films, I think there's a possibility in, in most all these cases. Disappearances of small children that cover phenomenal distances. I know it's hard for people who've never had kids appreciate the disappearance of a child found nine miles later in 12 hours. I just can't do that at two or three years old. And in years prior, I had met Les Stroud, Survivor Man.

And Lesoth and I had worked together on some things. And he said, Dave, your work's phenomenal. you know, if you ever have a documentary or something and you want me, I'm there for you. So we had this case where a child in Oregon had vanished and they needed searchers. They got in there. They searched for 14 hours and accidentally they find this child nine miles away from where he was last seen in 12 hours. And everyone says, it's impossible. Well, that is impossible based on him going over two mountain ranges,

over barbed wire fences and being found face down in the snow. So I call up Les, and I said, hey, Les, this is the case. The number of miles you have to maneuver through during the dark, because he went missing at 4.30 in the afternoon, and he's found the next morning real early. I said, can you do it? He goes, let's do it. So we put a film crew with Les, and we start off where this boy disappears,

and he's heading towards where the boy was found. And at about midnight, he stops everybody. And he says, hey, we're going to kill ourselves. we're going to step off a cliff. There's no way this kid did this. Stop right there for a second. And there's only a couple of options. And, you know, this family lived in the middle of nowhere.

So is it a crime? Somebody, a neighbor chased him and take him. Oh, if that was the case, then, you know, they'd probably dump the kid next to a road, you know, from a car or truck. They wouldn't dump him in the middle of nowhere. This boy was found in the middle of nowhere. So the first movie was kind of to get the idea out there

that something phenomenal is happening because it'd be easier for people to understand kids traveling these phenomenal distances doesn't make sense. Right. The second movie dealt with a series of hunters who disappeared and some of the unusual qualities

that were associated with these hunters. And then this movie, I've said it in a couple of conferences that I've attended. I swear, guys, it felt like Dave was being led around by the nose to these different cases, and the storyline was almost given to me in my brain somehow. I have no idea, but what we started to do and what we ended up doing entirely different. Wow.

Yeah. I was going to say that. I mean, I've watched all the films several times, and it felt like you, I like the way you do it because you give people the data and you let people come to their own conclusions in a way, So they can rule out everything in their mind, all the weird stuff. And I mean, obviously this is a weird phenomenon, but they can, all the rational things that your mind says, well, this can happen, or a bear did it, or this and that. You know, you wrestle yourself, but I like the way you do the films because it, it leads you to, you rule out all the options. And then your mind is ready for this film, which, which has some really weird stuff in it.

Like, like Carl, you know, he's shooting at this invisible force field, this entity called Ozo, right? comes out and offers them these pills. These pills like float at him. And Dave, we get real weird on our show. So this is nothing that our listeners can't handle. But then, you know, he takes this pill and then he's in this craft. And basically they find out, oh, well, you're, you know, you're not fertile. You can't, you don't have the reproductive thing that we need.

So they dump them off. And I think it's taken me a long time, Dave, just to accept a story like that. But, I mean, doing this show, watching your films, years and years and years. You feel like sometimes you have to slowly take people along because the cognitive dissonance kicks in and they don't want to, they can't deal. You can't just dump it all on them in one film kind of thing. I think that if somebody watched and they really didn't know anything about me, it may be a hard one to swallow. And if you didn't really know that hard line of have evidence, people have to be credible. And if it's not, then I'm not doing it.

And there's a lot of cases that we've done that we filmed that never made error. because in the end, after we thought about it, it's just not credible. Carl's case to me was 100% credible, just because there was all this supporting factual evidence, too. Every time Carl went hunting, every time he went with his wife, the time he ever went hunting without his wife. And I suppose I didn't make that case hard enough, but his wife explained this.

And again, it's that point of separation. So really, this is the first time Carl was ever alone in the woods without his wife. And as he's walking along, and he says this thing comes along and kind of tosses him these pills, and he takes him, of course, my first thinking is, what are you doing? You know, this odd-looking thing walks in and, you know, speaks with you, and all of a sudden you're taking the pills. We talked about it as a crew later. Carl described this thing as not having real hand. It had like a strange hand. and it didn't have real hair.

It was almost, and then we thought, this seems like it's some kind of robotic thing. It's not really human, because it doesn't come across in its descriptions as human, even though it's speaking to them in a response-like human way. It's very strange. And I know that they did a lot of, after the fact, they would do some hypnosis and try to get some of the facts,

because a lot of people come on our show and say that These people get screened memories. They're not, they don't, a lot of times they don't remember exactly what happens. These, these memories are put in their minds. And so it's really hard to get past those screen memories to get to the actual story of what happened. And I like that you, you know, you show that a couple times in the film where these people were, you know, they weren't just, hey, let's just tell me your story. They're actually trying to get to the behind those memories and figure out exactly what happened. And I remember, you know, I was thinking when, in Mark's case, Mark, Mark,

Is it strip, stripmater? Yeah, how do you say that? Strip mater. Strip mater. He said the UFOs were following him multiple times, and it sounds like that this wasn't just a one-and-done moment where the UFOs were kind of doing scouting missions, almost. Like they were seeing them before the actual abduction took place.

Do you think that that's something they do, like, scouting missions, and then they pick their moment? Good question. That was another huge moment in our filming, And his girlfriend said that to us. We couldn't believe it. And she didn't know really anything about the crew, the film project, me, what we were doing, what we were after, who disappeared. So she didn't, I told the crew, I don't even think she knew my last name.

So when she said that, it was stunning to all of us. And the thing about Mark is that it wasn't just a normal weekend hunter. I mean, he was a guide, an outfitter. He knew the area. He had hunted thousands of times since he was a kid. He probably felt more comfortable in the woods than you and I would in our own neighborhood. So for him to disappear, not be found. For search and rescue people to say on camera, it was a strange search, we couldn't find any scent trail and we should have.

The whole thing was strange, and that's what their words were. I thought it was interesting, too, Dave, in that story. that she's sort of nonchalantly, maybe not even, like you say, not knowing the arc of your story was like when we go hunting together, we do this, we put the key in the gas tank. When we go hunting together, again, he's now alone. And you can think back to the Ray Salman

where you'd be the two hunters in Idaho who have that crazy encounter with that really huge craft and they're both together. Yeah, and they see it and they draw it and they tell the story. it's it's almost like you don't want to see a UFO by yourself you yeah exactly you want to be with a pal hunters in Idaho were seeing that triangle of craft above them

I said I also said in the premier party that in hindsight when the guy walked out to his truck stepped up on his wheel and saw this thing up above him and his buddy was in the woods taking a pee yeah whizzin as he said yeah yeah maybe it was a really good thing that his buddy came back quick. Yeah. Yeah. Hey, on that note, I had a thought.

Dave, what are your thoughts on when kids, like the Dior or when kids disappear or when they're standing next to there? Because it seems like if you're an adult and you're in these cases, if you're adult and you're alone, you disappear. If you're with, you know, in these cases, if you're with another adult, it doesn't happen. But sometimes kids, is it, kids just getting out of view or kids, it's almost like it's a little different.

Like, a kid could disappear. almost next to someone. Is that something you're seeing, or am I just kind of read between the lines there? No, there's parents that, hey, I just turned around for a minute, and I turned back and they were gone. I didn't hear anything,

and it's hard for me to understand how my son or how my daughter got away from me that quick. So there is this almost in your presence kind of thing, turn your back, and they're gone. So in the movie, there's a retired FBI agent who actually got a series of key ported the first year of the X-Files. They used his case.

book to write the first year of the X-Files, if he can believe this. Wow. Wow. And I met John a couple years ago. And what he says is exactly what makes sense, but it's things that people would have a difficult time even understanding, let alone believing. So a couple years ago, and you can watch it on Amazon right now, History Channel. The point of it was they sent me around to these different locations where these people disappeared. And we're looking for answers. And there was a physicist in Wisconsin named John

Brannonberg. And when I met with John all day, and he's a theoretical physicist for NASA. And we'd sit around, we just talked, and they used snippets of those conversations in the segment. Most of it didn't make it, unfortunately. But John said, Dave, number one, portals, 100% real. We have multi-dimensions in our world. maybe the dimensions are endless, but they controlled. This is his words. He says, there's a group of us theoretical physicists that meet regularly and discuss how a control mechanism could be placed on that portal. And so the questions I had for him was, the guy's climbing up the side of Mount Shasta, just like a Sunday hike.

He's in the middle of nowhere on this hike and nobody's around. there's no crevices, there's no anything, where did he go? And he goes, well, Dave. If a portal can be directed and we think it can, and it could be pointed at that man, then he's gone, and there's no evidence of him ever being there other than his tracks going to that point. Now, keep that same thought.

Go back to John DeSuzza, and John's saying essentially the same thing. We have these multi-dimensions, and people can cross over dimension to dimension. And he's explaining all this. And in the end, I go, John, I meet a family. They lose their child in the woods. Now, all the evidence posted this. How can I ever explain this to him?

And them not to think I'm nuts. It goes to 100% right. We have multi-dimensions in our world. Why do you think when people do go missing that they put some, it's almost like they take the time to put some things back? You know, because you see them scattered all over the place. if someone just gets taken, they go through one of these dimensions or portals, why even bother come in, because it doesn't make any sense why you'd find shoes here, a gun over here.

Folded clothes. Yeah. Why would they even bother to put some of these items? Is it trying to like mess with us, or what do you think? So I heard something pretty, well, why would they want on their... That's a good answer. That sounds like a good answer. I don't know if it's true, but it was a theory.

that somebody had and I thought, hmm, that kind of makes sense. You know, that's pretty good. Now, the folded clothes, you read enough about abductions that a lot of people end up on, let's say, an aluminum type table naked. And they do weird things to their body according to abductees. They're folded? I have no idea. And the biggest question I have, and I think that it would be hindsight, it's always 20-20,

I would love to have been law enforcement walking up on the scene and a missing person's gone and there's their folded clothes. I'd be sending that out for forensic analysis. Yeah. It's just such a strange phenomenon that it's like they took the time to fold these things up and then place them. I think it was it, was it Ray Salmon where it was just on a log and they were folded neatly near the river,

right near the beach in the river there. And it's like, I don't know, I don't know what it is. It's kind of like an FU or something to be pulled. there's like, we'll just have to fold your clothes up and leave him here and take the guy with us. What do you think about, it sounded like when I was listening to Carl's story, Dave, that they were, these entities were like almost harvesting the elk, like they were hunting them as well, eating them as well. That's kind of the impression that I got. What do you think about that?

Personal thought, I think that they're taking the elk out to test them, you know, for chronic wasting to me. Because, again, that area of Wyoming has the highest concentration of CWD probably anywhere in the U.S. And then that elk that was taken in Washington by that craft wasting disease. Supposedly, Washington doesn't have any, but fishing game in Washington admitted to Warehouser that this one area did. And then they see this craft taking that elk that's too coincidental. And it was pregnant too, right? Yeah.

Crazy. so i mean if they are doing experiments and we hear about this all a lot on our show that you know it has to do with some sort of reproduction some sort of do you find things after the fact because i it's almost like you have to be almost to be like a doctor and look like are there specific like blood types how how how deep into the the physical anomalies of the person themselves being taken because it seems like there is there's a reason certain people get taken and other people's don't get taken. And I know you can't know everything about this person, but it seems like there's more to do with bloodlines and things like that and some sort of

reproduction experiment or it's in that arena. It's a trigger point to me when you talk about blood. Some people in the UFO arena that are really pushing one out of us. And the reason being is that your blood type is protected information under HIPAA. Federal law says that a government agency can never figure out or try to figure out or get from you your blood type because that's protected. So it's never going to be listed on any reports. A coroner is never going to do your blood type. Your rescue is never going to list it.

So it's nowhere to be found. The only person who knows your blood type is you and your doctor. And to get it from your doctor is going to take a quarter of a really hard stuff. to find it. So people always ask me, well, Dave, and the thousands of reports, how many times is this blood type come up? No, no, no. I've never seen a blood type in thousands of reports. Yeah. David, Dave, you touched on something I was going to ask you, and I'm going to want to go back to it real quick. The Mount Shasta incident, I think is one of the ones that I was always like, man, that he had to walk into a portal. And you said that, which I think is unbelievable.

The Reinerd-Kersner in this film, when you told that story, I thought the same, I immediately thought of the Mount Shasta incident. Do you think that's maybe the same thing happened to him? So in my work, I've identified six physicists around the world that have just, some of them are just... That's wild. Okay, that's wild, really, in the first place, yeah. Truly bizarre. Wow. All six are German. I worked for a month trying to find a case of a missing physicist that wasn't German, and I just found another one that was German. So there are no physicists in the world missing that aren't German. That's so weird.

So in Reinhard's case, I think something really bizarre happened. He, uh, smart, healthy guy in an area on Navajo property, going to study this gorge area that he had been to before. And as, at least in the sheriff or there, uh, working up his truck and camper like a crime scene, some people that are running sheep out there in the area came up and said, hey, you know, why this truck's been parked here? There's been some UFOs flying over it. And they thought it was so credible. They put it in the report. Yeah. And again, I've never seen that in a police report before. Yeah, that's a big, that's a big one. If you're going to stick it in

there as an officer, right? You're, you're the next cop, like that, you know, to put that in there and and then sort of have to answer for that. Well, you know, I had another question. Go ahead. No, go ahead. It seemed like there was a theme in the movie that, you know, you were talking about Pat McGuire's story when the aliens told them to dig the well

or the entities told them to dig the well. And then, you know, because there might be a cataclysm, and then you kind of alluded that maybe they're taking the elk because of this disease, that maybe these entities are, in some way, like, perpetrators. helping humanity in some way? I mean, I know those narratives are very dicey because they can pretend like they're helping us, right?

Or they can make it look like they're trying to help us and then be our friends, you know? But it seems like there's a little bit of theme like there. What do you think about those stories and those ideas? A lot of theories about this. One of them is a lot of UFOs underwater submerged objects. There's a lot that are in the ocean that are seen. by Navy and overtime people. And there's a map that I have that I made up of all the missing cases in the United States.

And north to south, right through the middle of the United States, there's just huge barren path there. And I have hundreds and hundreds of cases plotted on this map. And I've heard a million theories about why this area in the middle of the U.S. doesn't have any cases. That's the great question. So I get this email one day. This guy who says that he worked for a U.S. Geological Survey, and he goes, Dave, you know what's in the middle of that? And he says, it's the Ogilala-O-Gaw-Path match over that area. Well, then, I'm sitting in the office of the city of the attorney of Rock Springs, Wyoming, and he's telling this story about Pat McGuire.

He says, it's an object that goes into Wyoming, this little tiny arm that the aliens tell McGuire to dig and get water. I'm one of these people who thinks, you know, they're not doing it. anything to help us. There's some reason. Well, what if the Yoluala Aquifer was their maritime base underwater? They could survive underwater. They have bases underwater, supposedly. So what if that is where they're at? And they need these exit points at certain time to come out of. That was one of the theories that kind of rang true because the Navy and other armed forces around the world have seen these UFOs come up out of the ocean. And in fact, the submarines have seen objects past them

at like 200 miles an hour under the water. So they have these special abilities that water really isn't an object to them to live in or live under. But it's an excellent point of concealment. And everyone likes to think, well, you know, maybe all these entities coming from eons and eons ago and traveling through space. Now, what if they're right here?

And they're underwater and they come out when they want to. That's, I was going to. I like that. Yeah, I think that's fascinating. We talked to a guy that was on the Nimitz when they had the famous Tick-Tac episode. And he had said that he actually, that actually the naval pilots also reported seeing things in the water, moving at high speeds under the water than coming out and going back in. So, I mean, that's what you said. People in the Navy have seen this. There's one thing I wanted just to ask you about this, because this is one thing when I was watching the movie, when you had John D'Souza,

on and he specifically something that I think is very interesting onto that comment you just made as well about maybe they're they're coming from here is that he said that he said that they were the extra extra dimensional wasn't extraterrestrial which of course means not of earth it was extra dimensional when he was when he was basically you guys were having a discussion about about UFOs and then his role in reporting those and overseeing some of that stuff at the FBI I thought was pretty profound because, you know, in the, in the UFO space, there's all kinds of thoughts about the where planet did they come from and, you know, but to have him say it's extra dimensional. And I mentioned before about the fact that we live in this, we live in a dimensional

world and the physicists talk about portals, but was that surprising or was that right in line what you expected as far as far as his conclusions about that? I've done, I've had a lot of meetings with somebody who spent a ton of head of Bigelow's investigative team at the ranch. for years. I met him through George Kelleher and I met several times in Las Vegas where he lives, and we talked about the similarities in the research. And in one of George Knapp's books about what Kelleher's team saw at the ranch, they observed like, I don't know, 20 feet above the pasture, a window frame open up and this creature crawlout jumped down onto the land and run off. and essentially kind of

sounded like a big foot. And then the window or whatever closed another dimension opening another portal. But then there's also talk at the ranch that that same team

had seen animals that they had seen before in school that they'd identify as dinosaurs running along and then they'd run into the bush and they just disappear.

Something happening and if it wasn't Bigelow's team of ultra-credible people, I wouldn't have believed it. But knowing who they were and their backgrounds, it's all believable. So when John DeSuzza said this, it fell right in line with what I knew was happening at the ranch too. That's awesome. They say there's a ton of stuff that the Bigelow and that research team discovered as well that's all underlock key, which is always fascinating to to think about what they haven't told people about that place and about what they discovered there.

But yeah, I just thought that was super profound to say extradimensional. So remember the beginning of this movie starts off with, I'm on coast to coast with George Knapp. Yeah, yeah. And George kind of, it's near the end of the show. I didn't know what was happening, but he says, hey, let me tell you something. He tells this story. Well, what the person was who he went to Washington to meet, was a defense intelligence person who ran a DIA project at Skinwalker Ranch. And this was given to him

by hit this connection. George goes out there and at the end of the meeting, this DIA rep goes to George, hey, you know Dave Politis. This is the story George Sullivan. It goes, yeah, I know I'm really well. And he says, well, we think the work at the ranch has something to do with Politis's work. And this is the first time anybody outside of the ranch research has ever been tied to the ranch is important i think yeah when you get in your invite when you're going you know you got to really ask you after you do the research there and they have these things called hitchhikers that follow you home yeah i don't want any of that that's like a smart yeah that's actually a smart well that's what i was going to just say like a minute ago dave you were talking about the water and i just watched something

that was relating to, I don't know how into the spiritual aspect of these things you get, but the fact that when Jesus walks on the water was so much more profound and then he claimed dominion over the water. And the water in the ancient days was connected to sort of a portal to the underworld or the, you know what I mean? It was this, it was this, not only was it a miracle in that he's walking on water, but that's why Peter got so afraid because he was, it was like he was sinking into the abyss. It was so much greater. And do you think about those things at all? Does that, how does the spiritual aspect kind of cross your mind in some of these cases and when you're looking into it? Oh, it's front and center. I think that there's a lot of cross.

I mean, if you look back at drawings that are even, there's strange things in the sky on some of these drawings and art. He talked about the Nephilim in the Bible, talked about how that can be related to Kane and Abel, how that could be related to what's happening. They lose them? Davey there. I lost him. Oh, man, just when it was getting good, let me call him again. So you're looking like Cane and Abel.

Of course. I know, right? That was weird. Somebody didn't like us talking about that. Yeah. I guess so. Hey, David, cut out at Cane and Abel. Yeah.

Did you guys hear that click before? before that? No. Uh-uh. There was like a double click and then a two-second pause and then it went dead. Who's listening? Who's just... We always joke at our show whenever we talk about the giants, the Nephilim, that audio just...

Yeah. It's kind of a running joke. Things just don't... Tell me it just didn't happen again. I know, right? It's wild. We get into a lot of that on our show. That's really kind of what our show.

show is that's where we lived and so we're all years for all any of that yeah whatever you want to talk about that we're we'd love to but anyhow yeah the the bible aspect and uh not just the bible but just the spiritual side of things as well and all of that stuff comes into play and uh we Dave Dave on that note this could be an absolute just a no but have you had any any experiences yourself like being out on these places and going to do these interviews, you know, and you're actually going to these places where this stuff happened, right? There's these epicenters as you put those those casings on the map

and you make these triangles and you actually go out there. I mean, did you have any experiences? Did it, how did it feel? Does it have a different feel or it just feel like you're in the woods? I've told this story before, but I'll say it again, is there was a girl who disappeared outside of Lander, Wyoming. and Angie and I please for a multitude of reasons to

understand the circumstances, the topography and you get there and the areas she disappeared in is this giant swampy area in the mountains. I've always said people seem to disappear more around water especially in swamps and well there's this one dirt road that goes through the

middle of this giant swamp area and I said okay let's just take it go about four or five miles down this dirt road to the end of this swamp and it kind of ends up in this small hill and then a valley behind it. And it's in a gorgeous area of the high mountains of Wyoming. And we get out, and I didn't know how far it went because I didn't have a map and I didn't have a drone, but I'm guessing it probably went two or three miles to the east. It was more swamp. And I said,

you know, I remember talking to Native Americans and sometimes an opening to that other world is you clap your hands real loud. And you go, just try it. So I clap my hands really. And I clap my hands real loud twice. There was probably 20 feet between our car and where the swamp started and it was just all from the swamp, it sounded like there was a herd of 50

elephants coming at us all at once. Super loud, angry, and I'm looking at the tops of the tree tops out there because I figured they're going to start falling. And we just got behind the car

and probably 20, 30 seconds it went on, and it didn't sound like it was getting closer or it was going away. It was just like this constant sound of this giant, giant, bumbling herd coming at you. And it stopped. And there was no dust out there, obviously, because it's water. And one of the weirdest things I'd ever seen. And this is exactly where this person went missing, too.

Wow. That's wild. Very. Just doing a show, you know, just getting into the paranormal space. I mean, most people say when the closer you get to the truth, the more that the truth doesn't, that's like it doesn't want to be exposed. And so it's going to fight back from keep people, keep people asleep, keep people sheep. And if you do shows like this or you do work like you do, there's a price to pay.

I mean, in some capacity, everyone who's trying to get the truth out there is dealing with something. And I can't imagine going to some of these locations and just, and it's hard too because you're dealing with lost people. And I like how you start this film to say keep a warm and compassionate heart for the missing because it is these family members are losing somebody. And they don't have anything to go on. And they're kind of lost.

And it's hard for them to accept maybe some UFO craft is involved. It seems like some of the people you interview, they've come to that conclusion already, though. You know, I'm not going to be the first one that's going to broach that topic. Now, you guys have an open mind. You're willing to listen.

You were willing to look into areas that most people wouldn't, but think about Monpa cattle in the middle of the U.S. and let's say they come out to Yosemite with the family for the first time, and all of a sudden, somebody disappears. So if we started to broach this topic with them, it looked like you were nuts, and they'd just tell you to take off and don't bother me. Right. Yeah. It's one of those topics that you have to walk carefully with. Yeah, I think there was something that I think you were. said toward the end it was that her way was John DeSuza talking about it's not provable solely in a physical world and I think that's it's so true in these cases right is that you just when you get to a point where you can't you can't find any plausible conclusions you're not left with a whole lot of other

options other than the fact that these people potentially are being abducted and I had one question like these cluster and that's one thing you talk about there's 64 clusters why do you think that these particular places you have you have broken bones in that area and then the area in Idaho and you put them on the map. Other than its proximity to the aquifer when you talk about overlaying that, why do you think it happens in clusters?

I just kept thinking that, like, is it the same? Is it because this is like certain areas for that same, I don't know, what do you call it, ship or entity or whatever, or do you think that that's their territory, perhaps, where they are, I hate to say it like they are, but they're hunting or they're looking for a victim to snatch? It's just, it's weird, right?

If you had these all spread out sort of randomly on a map, and there wasn't any correlation. I know correlation doesn't always equal causation and all that, but in this case, it's like there was one, I can't remember when you were talking about Dave in the movie where the disappearance happened on the same day. I think it might have been strip matter on the same day, essentially 30 years from, at the same time that I think it was Carl was taken. And just, the locale kept, I kept getting like, what is happening in these very specific

locales that these things continue to happen or happen in bunches? The answers or the conundrum is easier to explain. And others, it's not. Now, the biggest cluster of missing people that fit our profiles is Yosemite. The biggest location for the most condensed granite in the world, Yosemite. Now, I knew that right away, but I didn't know until other people, much smarter than me, started to explain that granite has certain elements about it that no other, itself, the amount of quartz in it, et cetera, et cetera.

I won't go into it now, but it's just different. Is that the reason that all of these things are happening around Yosemite, or is it something else? Is it that between these giant, giant pieces of granite, there's a river that runs right in between them, the Merced River. Well, there's water and there's granite. Is there something about that that opens a portal or opens up something that we don't understand? Yeah, it's like Sedona.

The only experience I have is Sedona is very much, you know, I think it was two years ago, David, and they have like a UFO tour, right? And I was like, let's do this. This sounds, you know, I thought it was going to be kind of hokey, but there's a bunch of weird stuff I saw. And they, in not on that tour, of all things, they told us that the mountain there in Sedona, they call Thunder Mountain is like, I forget the percentage, but it's super, super high percentage of courts. And on this, there was, I mean, there was light phenomena. There was, I mean, it literally looked like ships coming up and down as we're watching. And this experience I had. And it sounds just like that.

And I don't know what the missing people, if there are, that sort of thing in Stona. So it was a weird place. But it sounded exactly like what you were saying with Yosemite, which granted, that's fascinating. Yeah, I don't know the answer either. But do you think, Dave, some of these missing, you know, clusters, do you think that there are permanent portals in certain places? they're just always there. And that might relate to why people go in and out a lot in these areas. Because we hear like Mount Shasta, for example,

we talked about on the show. We've talked about it on our show a lot. It seems like there's something up there. It seems to be like a permanent hotspot. Yeah. I don't know if there's any place in the world that has a permanent open. I think that there's a lot of things that have happened. And when we talk about porn,

if it was random, then we could be walking down the street in San Francisco and somebody disappear in front of us because it'd be just a random occurrence, a portal hits it. But nobody sees this happening. And because of this point of separation, and then something happens, it makes it appear as though there's something of intellect behind it that controls it so nobody can see it. Yeah, it's really strange. And we get into a lot of the spiritual aspects on our show, like I said,

and a lot of times people will just say, oh, it's just demons, it's just demons. or it's just smoke and mirrors. And you try to explain to these people, Dave, like, no, no, they're taking specific animals. They're doing almost science experiments. So why would, if it's all deception and smoke and mirrors, they wouldn't be doing these experiments. They wouldn't, the forensic evidence wouldn't suggest

that they're not just trying to buzz by us and freak us out. They're doing things. They're performing science. Do you have those conversations with people and try to convince them that it's way deeper and crazier than just? just demons, you know? A couple of guys that were working on this project with me.

There were camera people, producers, things like that. They worked on the project for a long time. And when we got near the end, it was essentially put together, these guys said, hey, we don't want our name associated with this. Interesting. And a couple other people said, well, why? Because you make aliens look bad. I didn't say anything bad about aliens.

I didn't incriminate or indict aliens in any way. Now, you're making it look like whoever's taking these people are doing bad things. We don't want to be associated with that. And they pulled their name and they didn't want any credit. Do they think that that was going to have some causation, like these entities were to come after them? Or was it just like a, they have some sort of ambivalent or amicable alien sort of worldview? And that's...

On the project a long time. They saw everything we saw. And... Gunner. because these are people that, you know, like you and me who have open minds and left field, I thought, wow. Well, we've heard it on a show, Dave, that like a lot of people say, there's, we've interviewed some people that we've, I don't think we've agreed with them at all, but they think the aliens are here to help us. Help humankind. Help us with all our problems. And there is a narrative out there. A lot of people do believe that. But obviously, people are going missing. People are being taken against their will. And you have to push back. Hold on to that thought for a second.

Let's pretend that there is this belief out there. Well, there is that these aliens don't do anything to anyone. So then the question comes of the thousands, tens of thousands of abductees that have claimed that things have been done to their body by these people. What? Are you going to call those people liars? Yeah. I mean, yeah. Yeah, I mean, horrible.

Horrible. burns and, you know, and missing pregnancies, like horrible stuff. Yeah. Yeah, that's a big leap. Yeah. And physical injuries. We've interviewed several people who've said they've had health issues their whole life because of it.

Yeah, absolutely that. Yeah, I mean, just think of the psychological scars. Yeah, exactly. You're living with always wondering if you're looking over your shoulder if that's coming back or if you're going to, it's going to happen again. And I'm sure you run across us, too, that, there's a lot of people that claim to have been abducted that also claim it happens multiple times

over the course of their life. And maybe happen to their parents and runs in their family. It's, it is, it's a bizarre, and yet, you know, there are volumes of accounts. You feel books and books with accounts of these people that have claimed that happen. There's crazy similarities.

Like you can, these people don't know each other. They're not, they're not, you know, repeating what Hollywood's telling them. They're none of that. It's, I love what you're doing. I think this is such important, it's so important, honestly, to open, just to open people's eyes. Because it's such an empirical approach, I think, which is super important in this. And the way you approach it, obviously being, you know, an ex, an ex-cop and an ex-detective, like the cases that lay out, it's just, there's no way to say that there's no way to really poke holes in any of this.

Which I love because it makes people confront a reality that a lot of people don't want to confront. And I think maybe the irony in that is that. our government is making acknowledgence now, you know, and I know that John DeSuza talked a bit about this, right? That they're acknowledged to an extent, but most times it's a nothing burger, and he believes it's because if you can't,

they're not going to acknowledge it if they can't control it, but there is a sense of that because I think you can't keep a lid on all this. You've got phones and phones of cameras, and we have this, you know, we're the day of instant communication and massive networking that people are going to find out.

So, yeah, I mean, I think the work you're doing is so important, Dave. So, yeah, thank you for, thank you for the film. And just for walking us through some of this stuff. I think it's fascinating. Yeah, I appreciate it, guys. And you can, if you want to watch the film online, you can watch it on Amazon, iTunes, Vimeo, Canada, it's Vimeo and iTunes. And also, our website is NA, like North America, NABFootsearch.com.

Go to the store there if you want to get a DVD. and on the DVD extended version, we have the entire interview with John DeSuzza, which is worth the price of the commission right there. And you can follow me on Twitter at David Politis at Cana Am Missing. And that's our YouTube site, Cana Am Missing Project, like Canadian American. I love it. Thanks so much, Dave.

I started listening to you in 2012 when I was listening to the Dennis Martin case here. We're in Tennessee, so I remember that just kind of hit home in the Smoky Mountains. And since then, I've been following your work. And I did have one last question for you. And I know you probably want to wrap it up and appreciate your time. I know it's valuable. Do you think that these, when I was listening to Carl's story specifically, it sounded like they asked him permission. And one of the things we hear a lot on our show is that these entities have to ask permission.

Do you think that everyone that goes missing, they're sort of, there's a transaction. There's a, like, take these pills or they. do something, they don't just randomly snatch you. You have to be kind of lured in somehow? What do you think? I don't know if I'm thinking back in the Mufant cases, if I've heard that theory, and I don't think I have. I'm not saying it's not true, but.

So I guess the big, you know, one of the main conclusions here is if you're German, don't go hunting alone, especially if you're hunting elk, right? I think if I was German, I'd be looking for another sport. Yeah. What do you tell people, Dave, before you go, like, what do you, there's a lot of people they say, you know, I'll never go camping again, and I'll never go in the woods again. Just don't go alone, right?

You know what? The number one thing I tell people is that if you have a friend or relative that goes hiking or camping alone, buy them a personal locator beacon. I don't sell them. You can find them on Amazon. They're about $280, $300. And what they are is they send a, you activate it, send a message to a second.

satellite, satellite goes to the National Astronautic Administration. They look on the map, see the coordinates. They call search and rescue for that area. They can find you within 10 feet of that signal. And I've always said that maybe I'm just being optimistic, but 90% of the cases that I read about,

I think would have been solved if people have been carrying one of those. I think they probably know you have ones, they're not going to take you so that they can't. Otherwise, or you're not going to find another dimension, right? I don't know. yeah yeah well thanks Dave I love it yeah thank you so much Dave hey guys I appreciate being on your show and thank you for your time

thanks so much for your time yeah we'll let you know when it comes out and and if you ever want to come back and talk about talk about the weird stuff Dave you're always welcome on blurry creatures appreciate it yeah thanks Dave yeah big fans man this has been an honor yeah hey no no I appreciate it hopefully you'll get me some bookings out of it right come on yeah oh yeah oh yeah Sounds good. We'll see you on your cruise, huh? Oh, yeah, for sure. That looked awesome, man. Maybe so.

All right, boy, thank you so much. Take care. Bye, bye, bye. Bye, bye.