Blurry Creatures - EP: 159 The Valley of The Shadow of Death with Derek Gilbert

Episode Date: March 22, 2023

Derek Gilbert returns to Blurry Creatures. An author, researcher, and host of Skywatch TV and A View From the Bunker Podcast, Derek joins us to talk about the biblical "valley of the shadow of death" and the ancient beliefs surrounding it and the afterlife. This is a real geographical place and Derek unpacks its location and significance. Where did Jesus get baptized? What does this valley symbolize? Who built the monuments to the dead that fill the valley? Once again we go full speed into the historical and spiritual aspects of death, the Abyss, and all things blurry with the incomparable Derek Gilbert. Guest: https://www.gilberthouse.org Intro Song: nightstop "havok" Support the show! www.blurrycreatures.com/members Socials instagram.com/blurrycreatures facebook.com/blurrycreatures twitter.com/blurrycreatures Music Kyle Monroe: tinytaperoom.com Aaron Green: https://www.instagram.com/aaronkgreen/ Outro Song: TimeCop1983: timecop1983.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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unto us a son is born, unto us a child is given. The land of Zebulun and the land of Naftali, the way of the sea. That's the Roman road, the Via Maris, ran from Egypt up to the Sea of Galilee, then tracked up through the Jordan Valley there, and then cut off to Damascus. The way of the sea beyond the Jordan, again, that's east of the Jordan River, land of Bashan, Galilee of the Gentiles. The people dwelling in darkness have seen a great life. and for those dwelling in the region and shadow of death, on them a light has dawned.

The region and the shadow of death, Jesus moving to the region covered with these monuments to the dead, was the fulfillment of the prophecy of Isaiah 9. And in fact, they identify one location near a cabots called Shamir as sort of the cultural center or religious center of the culture that built those dolmens. That's the one that's got that dolman with a 50-ton capstone. The tabletop stone weighs as much as two fully loaded 18-wheel semi-tractor trailer trucks. Hey, welcome back to Blurie Creatures. We have Derek Gilbert on the show this week.

Derek's actually in Israel right now showing people the places he's talking about on this episode. We had a great time talking to Derek. I'm up late, finishing the edit for this week's episode. And I hope you guys enjoy this one. If you want to become a member of the show and enjoy extra perks, We actually just announced today that we're going to be doing a blurbicue. That's right. We're going to do a barbecue blurry creature style.

If you want to get tickets to the blurbby queue, that's hard to say. You can become a member, and we're going to send out a message to everyone how to get tickets. We're going to do that in May right before the summer. So you also get extra episodes. We're doing a movie night in a couple days for the gold members, and we're always doing fun stuff. So head over at blurrycreatures.com. members become a member of the show. Let's get Derek on this one. The history of our earth is so different from what we can imagine.

The Smithsonian that if they found out about a large skeleton somewhere was to go get it. I'm going to assume at least one person is right. Because if one person's right and bust the paradigm, it all goes back to the fallen chair. And the problem with the modern day church, They have a very truncated view of the supernatural. This backdrop that's just pregnant with all kinds of meaning associated with this Mount Hermon event. And this guy defects from the kingdom. That's a big deal. Welcome back to the podcast.

Welcome back to Bluey Creatures, Derek Gilbert. You're an author, podcaster, news anchor. And I'm sure you're the best dad of all time, too. Awesome. Yeah, awesome to have you back. Derek, hey Derek, before we start,

tell us about what we've been working on because you got, I feel like you do so many things. Well, the funny thing is Sharon and I talk about this and sometimes we feel like real slugs. Like we're not getting the kind of content out. As much content as we want.

But then I look, you know, at how much we've actually put out since we've been here in the Ozarks. We were coming up in our eighth anniversary. It was just about eight years ago, almost exactly that we made the big move in the middle of a snowstorm.

And since then, you know, I'm looking at it because I've got, These little framed copies of the beautiful artwork, the cover art by Jeffrey Martis for the books that we've done. And there are nine up there on the wall. So I guess I'm not that much of a slug. It's just there's so much that I want to get out and only so many hours in the day. We've been working on a book file.

And I think it's best that we didn't put it out last year as we'd scheduled because we've learned some things that are going to go into the book. Sharon and I are working on another co-author book called The Gates of Hell, which is a reference. to Jesus declaring his divinity at the base of Mount Hermon right in front of Cessaria Philippi. I mean, you know, Judd, the two words, when you ask Judd, why are the Nephilim important? Why do they matter? He says, two words, Cessaria Philippi. Yeah, he's right. But we got one on Judd now because a few months ago, I was working on something, just doing some reading. We've assumed that the Aesians, or I always thought the Aesnes, where we were all based at

Qumran where the Dead Sea Scrolls were found in 1947. Turns out that's not true. There were Aseans in Jerusalem and there were Aseans in a community near the town of Magdalah, kind of at the northwest corner of the Sea of Galilee. That's where Mary Magdalene was from. That's why she's called Mary Magdalene. Well, the Aesans who lived in the north wrote the second part of the book of Enoch. Now, this may be something you already know.

Mike Heiser about this. That's why it's in his companion to the book of Enick. It's like, oh, okay, I'm just slow to the party here. But chapters 37 through 72 that they call the book of parables includes some references, messianic references, to a character called the Son of Man that had not previously appeared in any Jewish writing, except for that passing reference in Daniel chapter 7,

where Daniel has the vision of the one like a son of man, You know, the ancient of days at his right hand is one like a son of man. But there's nothing else mentioned in Daniel about that. Who is this guy? Why is he there? Who is he? But in the second part of the book of first innic, the book of parables, you find a lot of references in there to this character.

He's the messianic character who comes back and punishes wicked kings and fallen angels and evil landowners and so on. And then Jesus takes that title and runs with it, you know, like 82 times or something in the New Testament. It's like, oh, okay, so really, we really do need to take the book of Munich really, really seriously. But in the process of reading about this community of Acese, and this section of the book, which according to scholars, was probably completed by about the time of the death of Herod the Great. So in other words, just before Jesus and John the Baptist were born. Wow. All right. I stumbled onto this paper by a German scholar that was

trying to identify the location of Bethany across the Jordan. This is the place where Jesus was baptized according to the gospel of John, chapter one beginning at verse 26. John is confronted by guys sent by the Pharisees in Jerusalem who are questioning him. They're interrogating him. Who are you? Are you the prophet? Are you Elijah? Are you the Messiah? And John says no. But among you stands one whom you do not know, even he who comes after me, the strap of whose sandal, I am not worthy to untie. And then verse 28, these things took place in Bethany across the Jordan where John was baptizing. So, all right, for 2,000 years, Christians been trying to find the location of Bethany across the Jordan. Across the Jordan means east of the Jordan River.

The only Bethany we can identify for 2,000 years, is the one on the Mount of Olives, which is obviously west of the Jordan River. It's across the valley from the Temple Mount. So where is it? The early church father origin toward the end of the second century went to Palestine and he tried to find it. So nobody knows where it is. So he said, I think the actual name is Beth Abara, and that's what the King James version has. But that's not what's in the Greek.

The Greek text reads Bethania, Bethania across the Jordan or Bethania across the Jordan. Well, UNESCO, and the United Nations says it, so it must be true, right? Bethany across the Jordan is a spot on the Jordan side of the river, of course, near Jericho. And that's designated now a world heritage site by UNESCO. So the kingdom of Jordan, God bless them, they're spending like $300 million to turn it into a tourist location. Of course there. And I can't, yeah, I can't begrudge him that. I mean, Jordan doesn't really have much else.

They've got a lot of sand. They got a lot of rocks. And so they make cement. That's their main national export. And tourism. So if they can draw Christian tourists to Jordan, God bless them. We've been there twice, felt safe, wonderful people, great food. And Petra is a bucket list item.

But this location near Jericho is not where Jesus was baptized. This is not Bethany across the Jordan. This German scholar who wrote this paper pointed out that an ancient, In 1777, a fella who was actually a friend of Sir Charles Warren who found that inscribed stone inside the temple on the summit of Mount Hermann. This fellow, Lieutenant Claude Condor, who was sent by the Palestine Exploration Fund, wrote in a paper, I think I figured it out. I'm paraphrasing, of course, because that's not how British gets. He said that Bethania, the Greek, is probably just a slightly different transliteration of botania. and Batania was the Greek form of the name Bashan.

So Bethany across the Jordan should be Bashan across the Jordan. That's basically the Golan Heights. That's the area to the north and east of the Sea of Galilee, but it included basically everything up to the Jordan River, north of the Sea of Galilee. And of course, the Jordan River runs essentially from Mount Hermon down to the Sea of Galilee and then on down to the Dead Sea. Does that make sense?

Well, when you look at the Gospels and you see where Jesus called his first disciples, beginning at verse 35 of John chapter 1. You know, Jesus appears the next day after he's grilled by the Pharisees. John says, oh, look, behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world. And the day after that, Jesus starts calling disciples. Philip, Philip, was from Beth Saida, the city of Andrew and Peter. So Philip, Andrew, Peter, they're all from Beth Saida. That's a mile north of the city of Galilee.

Okay. All right. So if they're there, while John is baptizing, and Jesus appears, it's not likely, is now my point is this Andrew Peter and James and John were partners in a fishing business on the Sea of Galilee which is 90 miles away

from the Nesco site Yeah it doesn't make it that's a that's a that's a brisk walk for him to get all the way That's a brisk walk so if you're partners in an active fishing business that's doing well according to the Gospels because they had servants who were working for them according to the Gospel of Mark

you're not likely following John as a disciple 90 miles away down near Jericho. A 90-mile walk, that's like what, four or five days? Yeah. So, Derek, are you telling me you think you figured out where the spot where Jesus is going to baptize? I think it's north of the Sea of Galilee in that region called Bashan. Now, why is that relevant? Because Bashan in the ancient world, right? Kingdom of Ag, the first military target of Moses and the Israelites. Why Bashan? Because Bashan, which is a cognate for a Eucharitic word, which is a Semitic language similar to Hebrew, means place of the service. serpent.

Oh, dude. Bashan is covered with megalithic monuments to the dead for the cult of the dead. I mean, besides Gilgal Refayim, Israel's Stonehenge, which is dated to like 3750 BC, and it's like half again more stone in it than Stonehenge. So it's bigger and older than Stonehenge. Besides that, you've got about 5,000 dolmens all over the Golan Heights. Those are these megalithic structures that look like. In fact, that word is from a Britonic word.

It's a Celtic language that means table. Two big slabs with a table top or cross-a-top. Is this the same area where Doug thinks they found that serpent mound? That's the same? Yes. Dude, this is getting, this is a convergence right here. This is pretty crazy. Yeah.

It is. So we, looking at this and looking into the dolmens as Sharon and I have been for several years now, so we wrote about these in our book, Veneration, which is really about the cult of the Nephilim, you know, the ancestors, veneration, which is really worshipping the spirits of the giants destroyed in the flood of Noah. There's an Israeli archaeologist named Moshehratel who led the survey of the Golan Haissah. Israel's only been in control of it since 1967, which is why nobody knew that Gilgal Refaim was even there until 1967. I mean, the Syrians probably knew, but they weren't telling anybody. But these dolmens, I mean, there are so many dolmens there that according to this guy,

Hartal, they can't use the term dolman field to describe cluster. of Dolmans anymore because he don't know where one ends and the next one begins. That's wild. For all intents and purposes, the entire Golan Heights is one giant Dolman field. This tracks with Canaanite texts from around the time of the judges found at that ancient kingdom of Egarit where there's a story called the Epic of Akat, A-Q-H-A-T, is a young man who's approached by the war goddess named Anat, who wants his magic bow that was made for him by one of the gods. And Akat says, no, for one thing, it's mine. Secondly, you're a woman. What are you going to do

with it? Okay. Akkad failing to notice that Annat, the war goddess, has a girdle made of human skulls, according to the texts. So bad move. She has him assassinated. His father, whose name is Daniel, goes looking for him. And three times in this epic poem says, when I will search for my son and when I find him, I will mourn for him and I will bury him in a tomb for the underworld gods, which is a a phrase used elsewhere in these texts for the Refaine. Yeah. Okay. So three times, I will mourn for him and I will bury him in a tomb for the underworld

gods. The fourth time he finds his son. And so I will mourn him and I will bury him in a tomb at Kinaret. Kinoret is the Sea of Galilee. So even in this kingdom, which is near the border of Syria and Turkey, back in the day, they knew that all the way down at the Sea of Galilee was a region where you buried the honored dead to put them amongst the Redfern. Refayne.

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Up front payment of $45 for a three-month, five-gigabyte plan required, equivalent to $15 a month. New customer offer for first three months only, then full-price plan options available, taxes and fees extra. See Mintmobile for details. Again, the kingdom of Bashan. So that's where Jesus went, where John was baptizing. it's within line of sight from the community of Assenes who wrote this second part of the

of the Book of First Enix, the Book of Parables. I mean, they've got this little hill there called Mount Arbell that kind of oversees or overlooks the community where these Ascenes were living. You climb this little mountain. You can see Mount Hermon off in the distance. You can see Coperna on there on the shore of the Galilee. You can see Beth Saida up there.

And again, the region of Bashan. off in the distance, all visible while they were writing this or being inspired to write it, possibly. And then Jesus, again, calling his first disciples from that region, that's where all of this took place, this region that was known as the entrance to the netherworld, a region covered with monuments to the dead. Now, here's the thing, that Gilgal Refaim, this circular monument looks like concentric rings, almost like a maze, where you have to work your way into the center. And in the center is this tumulus, which is a pile of rocks over a tomb. We've been inside the central core, and there's a dolman inside there.

Don't know who was buried there. The archaeologist who did the most recent dig, Dr. Michael Freakman said it had been robbed out. They couldn't find them. The Smithsonian had been there already, right? So they, uh, probably, yeah, yeah, or the vacuum. Right. Maybe the Vatican. Slooped it up. You're right. But there's another monument that Dr. Freakman wrote about that's just like Gilgal Refayin. It's about a third the size, but it's got that same structure, concentric rings around a central tumulus. covering a dolman. It's located on a little hill overlooking the Jordan River

a mile north of the Sea of Galilee. It's like half a mile from Beth Saida, where Philip and Peter and Andrew lived. There is no way they didn't know that thing was there. Spell it out for the dummies here. So this, I mean, nothing Jesus does.

John was baptizing. Nothing Jesus does is unintentional. We know that. It's just like at Cesaria Philippi, Gates of Hell, when I prevail. It was a warning shot across the bow. It was Jesus, you know, proclaiming his victory. In fact, stepping on on that place where the watchers touched down, right?

He went there and he was baptized there. And then he led by his spirit into the wilderness. This is in Matthew chapter four. And this is where it really goes, you know, it comes into focus. Led into the wilderness, tempted 40 days, 40 nights. The devil takes him to Jerusalem, sets him up on the pinnacle, says, if you're the son of God, throw yourself down. Then he takes into a very high mountain

and shows them all the kingdoms of the world. The only very high mountain in Israel is Mount Hermon. It is three times higher than any other peak. Mount Carmel, Mount Tabor, Temple Mount, forget it. Mount Hermon is three times higher than the next tallest mountain in Israel. It's there that Satan shows them the kingdoms of the world and said, look, if you bow in the knee to me, I'll give all of this to you. And of course, Jesus said, no, you shall worship the Lord,

your God and Him only you shall serve. And then in verse 12 of Matthew chapter 4, when He had heard, when Jesus had heard that John had been arrested, John the Baptist, he withdrew into Galilee and leaving Nazareth. He went and lived in Copernum by the sea. Copernum is on the shore of the Sea of Galilee. It's about a mile from Beth Saida. In the territory of Zebulun and Naftali so that what was spoken by the prophet Isaiah might be fulfilled.

This is a quote now from Isaiah chapter 9, which is the prophecy that includes the phrase, unto us a son is born, unto us a child is given. The land of Zebulun and the land of Naftali, the way of the sea, that's the Roman road, the Via Maris, ran from Egypt up to the Sea of Galilee, then tracked up through the Jordan Valley there, and then cut off to Damascus. The way of the sea beyond the Jordan, again, that's east of the Jordan River, land of Bashan, Galilee of the Gentiles. The people dwelling in darkness have seen a great light, and for those dwelling in the region and shadow of death, on them a light has dawned.

The region and the shadow of death. Jesus moving to the region covered with these monuments to the dead was the fulfillment of the prophecy of Isaiah 9, a light dawning on those who dwelt in the region and the shadow of death. The Jordan River runs through a valley between Mount Hermann up to the region of Dan, an ancient city of Dan, down to Corazin, which is one of the cities that Jesus cursed, which was just north of Copernum, that area is around an area that is called the Hula Marsh, MASH, H-U-L-E-H.

There used to be a lake there. The Israeli drained it in the 50s to get rid of malaria. But the area around that marsh is just ringed with dolmens. Interesting. And in fact, they identify one location near a cabotts called Shamir as sort of, the cultural center or religious center of the culture that built those dolmens. That's the one that's got that dolman with a 50 ton capstone. The tabletop stone weighs as much as two fully loaded 18-wheel semi-tractor trailer trucks.

How do they get it up there? And somehow, somehow in the Bronze Age, somebody managed to get that up on top of a dolman. And there are like 400 more dolmens around it. And that's right on the edge of this marsh. Big fellas. Maybe some big fellas out there. That, we believe, is the valley of the shadow of death. Oh, okay. So what is the significance of the Dolman? Is it just, is it like a fancy coffin or is there actually some sort of, is it like a gate? That's the question. Scholars don't know. Even the guys who did this recent survey of all of the Dolmans around the edge of this Hula Valley or the Jordan Valley that runs through the Hula Marsh, they admit they don't know.

Scholars have been looking at these things since the beginning of the 19th century. So for 200 years, scholars have been looking at Dolmans in the Golan Highlands. and in the Jordan Valley. And they don't know. They honestly don't know. It's hard to figure out because they've been there for, you know, some of them for as long as 5,000 years. And you got a lot of tomb robbers, what the archaeologists, they call night diggers. They go in there and, you know, rob them out. So there are very, very few.

In fact, I'm only aware of one or two that have actually two that have not been robbed out, that have been excavated within the last few years. So they don't know. Were these actual burial sites? Some scholars say no. Others believe that they were used for sky burials. You'd put the dead relative on top of the dolmen until the birds picked it clean and then you'd bury the bones in an ossuary in a shaft tomb somewhere else. Well, because we see, you know, we talked a lot to a lot of people in the about these burial mounds in North America, right?

And they dug into them and they find these giants in them. and you just wonder if they had some sort of understanding or maybe religious belief that if they buried their dead in a certain way, do they think that maybe they would get a better place in the underworld or transfer over? Is there some sort of? I think it has to do with the cult of the ancestors, which was such a key part of the religion of the people in the ancient world, the ancient Near East. They believed, and this we know from Amarite texts, that you had to, have a ritual meal for your ancestors once a month. Every month on the night of no moon.

So the 30th of the month, they had to invite them to a ritual called the Kispum and summon them by name. So it's kind of a necromancy ritual. And then you would feed them with bread. And this is what the tariffine, those household idols, like Abraham, right, when they have those whole... Oh, Jacob. Or Jacob, sorry, when they took the house gods from the father-in-law, my brain...

Exactly. Start as an L. Laban. Laban, thank you, man. Yeah. It's dad brains got me here. Laban, yeah. And she hit him and she took him with it, which was always like a weird passage.

Right, right. Yeah. Why are these there and why are they so important? Why did Laban chase after him? Well, because the possession of the household idols, the Teraphene, meant that whoever possessed them was the one who owned the family estate. So Jacob running off with, or Rachel running off of them basically meant that Jacob would inherit Laban's estate.

Access to the household gods in that day and age in that period of history, was so important that sons who disobeyed their parents were actually cut out of the will, and they were denied access to the family gods. You can no longer talk to the family gods. I mean, that was a big, big deal. The other side of the coin is that if your descendants did not perform the ritual on a monthly basis and summon you to feed you bread, which they would smear on the little face of a little statue there, and then pour out a drink offering so that you had something to drink in the afterlife,

you ceased to exist. If they forgot your name, you ceased to be. you faded away to nothingness. And this continued at least down to the time of David and even beyond. I mean, you remember when David was trying to get away from Saul, his wife, who was Saul's daughter, Michael, fooled the guards who were coming to take David away and kill him by putting the tariffine in the bed and putting hair on it to make it look like David.

So even David's household, when he was living in the household of Saul, they had one of these household gods in his home. And David's son Absalom in 2. Samuel 18, 18, 18. This is such a weird verse. It's one of the few that I can remember. He erected a pillar in the valley of the kings, which nobody really knows where that is. The pillar of Absalom that the tour guide show us in Jerusalem today, that's not the actual one. Anyway, he erected this pillar to himself, for he had no son to keep his name in remembrance. And archaeologists know from the Amarite kings who lived in that area, what is now Syria, Lebanon, southern Turkey, that they did this, they would erect these pillars so that people would remember to, summon them and offer sacrifices to them so they wouldn't fade away. They wouldn't starve in the afterlife. So that's what I think this cult was all about. You had to continually appease the ancestral gods or the ancestral spirits when it, but the reality of the situation was people were being deceived by demons, which were more than likely the spirits of the Nephilim destroyed

in the flood. And this type of ritual continues down to this. day. You see it in Madagascar where they take the Haiti. The ancestors out of the tomb. Haiti. You see it in Mexico with the Day of the Dead. This continues down to this day. You can trace this all the way back to the Nephalim. So all of this goes all the way back to Mount Hermon thousands of years ago. I was going to say that it reminds me of what you see in Haiti where they actually try to call spirits up and have them possess them and they pour out.

You know, they pour one out for their for their ancestors and they bring food. It's interesting because in Japan, it's not a Middle Eastern thing. It's a thing everywhere. Right. So let me recap this real quick. So we get, so the Ascines, who we know most famously for the Dead Sea Scrolls, having in Kumron, scrolls are found. That's how we actually know that the book of, the book of Enoch predates all the New Testament stuff for which Enoch was tossed out because they thought that that it lifted from Jude and Peter, etc. So we know that that community exists, but they also were elsewhere. And they were

monastic or were they were it depended there appears to have been a split in the community at some point in the second century BC I still don't have my head around this as I'm trying to study on this and I got to work fast because we're going to Israel in a month

we're just there I just saw photos maybe they were old maybe they were memories again old old photos yeah no we've had to reschedule this this tour four times because we were supposed to go back in 2020 no one went anywhere right yeah The tour companies are now making up for lost time.

There appears to have been a split. And so you had the community at Kumron that wanted to separate from the world entirely. And if you wanted to join their community, you had to agree to follow all of their rules specifically. The community around the Sea of Galilee and the community in Jerusalem appeared to be more willing to mingle with other groups, you know, to work alongside the Pharisees and the Sadducees and what have you. More good neighbors. They were better neighbors. They're just like, don't leave us alone. I mean, they still had their rituals and their purity rituals and so forth, but they were not quite as strict as the Kumran community, which basically cut itself off from the others.

And in fact, you can see evidence of this split. This is why scholars are convinced that the book of parables in the book of First Enic was not written by the community at Kumran because there are things in that, you know, beginning of Chapter 37, that would not have been acceptable. to the community at Coomron. For example, the idea that you could be forgiven through repentance. This was something that John the Baptist is known for in the Gospels. He was preaching a Baptist of repentance or baptism of repentance for forgiveness. The Coomron community believed you were only forgiven if you joined their community and followed all of their rules.

So that was a fundamental difference. like some churches. Yeah. Yeah. No, no, no kidding. So, so anyway, that's why scholars believe that that book of parables, the beginning of chapter 37, there's a kind of a division there between the Qumran community writing the first part and the second part coming from the community

at the Sea of Gallup. So this community wrote, we believe the parables, which is if you're familiar with the book, Ovenach is as Derek's talking about, is the second part of the book. But they, this term son of man now predates Jesus and Jesus. called himself that 80-some-on-times. But when you're going through this linguistically, so I'm just going to recap this so my brain can wrap around it. They had a view of Mount Hermon, and they had a view of Bashan and Jordan River and UNESCO and all those dummies that, at the UN, you know, either in cahoots to make some money for Jordan or they have it all wrong.

And it's actually on the other side of the river. And this is the place that Jesus was baptized to fulfill the prophecy in Isaiah. And this land is the land of Bashan, We know King Agha Bishan, but also famously a place of veneration for the dead, worship of the Refayim and of the spirits of the dead Nephilim. So you have this whole golden age being worshipped pre-floods of Jesus is now the light that shines in the darkness on the side of Bichon, which is close enough for him to walk to call his disciples. Right. And then down that river, and that place is covered in dolmens, which we know are part of the cult of the dead. but down the river there used to be another marsh and now it's a place

but there's tons of domines there and you believe that is the biblical place for the valley of the shadow of death and that's because of the dolmens and also because it geographically fits. Am I on so far here? No, you're summarizing it very well. Good, good, good. Yeah, there you go.

You're helping me out too. As the Krispy Chicken sandwich from 7-Eleven, people always call me loud. And I'm like, Yeah, I know. I'm crispy. Did you expect me to whisper? If you want quiet, go eat some soup and reflect.

Like, I know I'm a handful. I'm bold. I'm juicy. Throw some pickles and barbecue sauce on me. And baby, I'm a whole meal. And with seven rewards, I'm just $4. Quiet. No.

Krisby, saucy, and $4. Very. Only at 711. Valley 36, 2326, participating stores only while supplies lastly out for full terms. We'll just transcribe that and that'll be a chapter for the course. I just try to keep up, man. I love it, though, because. Because I think this is the context, right?

Like we talk about this, Derek. We talked about at Mount Hermann about at the gates of Hades, about the significance of geography. And I think we're separated from this very much unless we go to Israel. And even then, it isn't always the same as we can just prove with UNESCO. It's not always, and Jesus is probably born or crucified at where's a bus stop now. These things that don't, actual locations and meanings, but they, gosh, it's just the significance of being a light dawning.

would be his revelation or being revealed as the Messiah with the dove coming down when he's baptized by John. It's in the place of complete and utter darkness. So all of that, Valley of Shadow of Death. So we're talking like literally a place where they buried and then worshipped the dead in this valley. This is a place where David walked and maybe they didn't want to go because it was blurry. I don't know, you know. Do you think this is where the Giants maybe came back in this area too? Like there's always these debates.

How did they go back? Did they do some sort of ritual in these areas to like resurrect themselves or something? Well, we know that that practice was still continuing down at least until the time of David, probably down to the time of Isaiah when you get down to the seventh century. Because Isaiah was still condemning those who were eating forbidden food amongst the tombs, which was part of the problem. I mean, Moses and the Israelites 800 years earlier were hit with a plague. when they were on the plains of Moa before they crossed over at Jericho. 24,000 Israelites died before Phineas stopped it by getting stabby with a spear. And the actual, the actual language, right?

Strip, the language. He was very stabby with the spear. Yeah. It was, you know, you smite or stabbing. Smite, smite. So it's a plural. No, exact translation. That's part of simple.

But it was young, young Israelite prince and a Midianite princess who were performing some sort of, Fertility right, probably, at the entrance of the tent of meeting, in the site of all Israel, according to the account in numbers. But in Psalm 106, verse 28, it's specified that the reason God got angry was that they were eating sacrifices offered to the dead. They yoke themselves to the ball, the bail of peyore, and eight sacrifices offered to the dead. Now, we showed in our book veneration that the word pejor is based on a Hebrew root that means opening or cleft or gap. And in that context, it probably means the opening or the Lord, because that's what Baal means, Lord of the gates of hell, Lord of the opening to the Netherworld.

This probably took place at or very near the location of ancient Sodom. There is a dig going on as we record this tonight. The team is over there from Trinity Southwest University and Veritas International University, digging at a site in Jordan called Tall El Hamam. It's across from Jericho. It's kind of between Jericho and Mount Nebo. You can see it from Mount Nebo. As you're looking at Jericho, if that's 12 o'clock,

Mount Nebo's at about 2 o'clock. This city was the largest city in the southern Levant, which is Lebanon, Israel, Syria, Jordan, south of Hotsore. And Hotsore is about halfway between the Sea of Galilee and Mount Hermon. 85 acres inside the city walls. To give you an idea to compare Jerusalem at the time of Abraham had about 12 acres inside 10 acres inside the city walls.

So, you know, we think Jerusalem. Jericho, that must be really big because that was the, no, Jericho had 12 acres inside the city walls. Wow. This city, 85 acres. And then when you include the areas outside down on the plane, which is very fertile because there's a perennial stream that runs down from the site of the city. So it was always, always had water, even though it's like desert everywhere else around there,

about 200 acres. So it was seven times. of Jericho or right the thing that's interesting is that at the time and this was mentioned by the guy who found this this Dr. Stephen Collins in his book Finding Sodom just mentions

it in passing it's like oh yeah they're like 1,500 dolmens at the base of the city at the base of the tell you know the hill in which the city was found like wait what because they're like 25,000 in all between Mount Hermann and the Dead Sea and they're like 1500 at the base

of this city and there are scholars going back to the 1940s who believe that Shatim, which is where Moses and the Israelites camped, was not down on the plains of Moa, but it was up on this hill. In other words, they were on the lower level of the location of Sodom that had been destroyed like 400 years earlier, right on top of the site of the temple, which may well have been, the temple of Beil Peor. And they fell into the worship of this god. And I asked the director of scientific analysis for this site on my podcast about three years ago. How are these dolmens at Sodom oriented? Because you know, archaeo astronomy is a growing field. They can find if these were oriented toward the

winter solstice or the summer, whatever, whatever. He said, no, they were all aimed at what we think was the temple on Sodom. Interesting. Oh, okay. Now, here's the thing. One of those two dolmens that I mentioned earlier that had not been robbed out was found by the team working right now at Tall El Hamam. found one that was kind of hidden on the side of a hill. It hadn't been touched. Hadn't been touched in almost 4,000 years. And they found, based on the pottery, the dating of the pottery inside of it, that it appears to been used continuously since Sodom was founded around 4,000 BC. So for more than two millennia, it was in constant use. They theorized, because they didn't find more than, like a bone here and a bone there. they think the dolmens were used to house offerings to the dead.

The dead ancestors, the dead relative would be put out on top of the dolman, flesh pick clean, the bones were put in a shaft burial, and then once a year, and again, this is theorized because they didn't have any texts yet to confirm this, but they believe that they would have a ritual where they would go to the shaft tomb, pull out a bone of an ancestor, they would bring it to the dolman, and they would put it inside the dolman. And as time went on in the front of the dolman got filled up, they would just push everything to the back. You know, they would offer pottery. They found some jewelry in some of these. And a few boasts here and there. So what does this mean? Again, offerings to the dead apparently. And it appears that Sodom was part of or maybe the center of that cult in the southern part of the Levant. Whereas in the north, it appears to be centered around that massive dolman at Shamir, which is at the northeast corner of that valley, the Hula Valley. So, overlooking at Jordan River.

So literally the Valley of Death, Shadow of Death was full of Domain, so ritual structures to which they made offerings to the dead. We had thought years ago, a couple of years ago that Sharon and I thought that there was that area down there by Jericho. Yeah. Between Jericho and Sodom, that was the Valley of the Shadow of Death. Still, you know, a reasonable hypothesis. I mean, in Ezekiel chapter 39, verse 11, he says, God tells him that the end of the war of Gog and Magog will be in the Valley of the Travelers, east of the sea. That's a reference to the dead sea. East of the sea. Okay, that's the Jordan side of the river. Travelers in Hebrew is Avareem. Yeah. When Moses was getting old and God said, okay, you're going to get

one look at the promised land. Climb this mountain, Mount Nebo, he refers to it. God calls it this mountain of Avareem, this mountain of the travelers. This is a word that has an entry in the dictionary of deities and demons in the Bible. Because travelers doesn't refer to people on holiday in Jordan. It's a reference used by the Canaanites for the spirits of the Raphaine, because these spirits crossed over or traveled from the realm of the dead to the land of the living. So there's something about that area down there near Mount Nebo, near Sodom that was connected to these spirits. In fact, one of the last stops on the stations of the Exodus, actually there are two that make reference to spirits of the dead. One is called Ovooth, which literally means

spirits of the dead. The other is Aihah Avarim, which means ruins of the travelers, or heaps of the travelers. And I think that may refer to the Dolmans at the base of the ruined city of Sodom up on the hill. You know, and people who are just tuning in and don't know, I mean, this probably sounds like a, you know, a big lesson right off the back. Can you talk about how the ancients viewed like Shiel and where they believe they went. Because obviously they're not just doing this for nothing. They're not just doing this because it's ceremonial. They actually believe they're either sending people off or bringing people back and there's this communication going on. And I think modern day people, when we hear this, we just think, oh yeah, the ancients were out of their minds.

Like they were just doing these weird rituals. And why were they going through all this effort? Why were they, you know, spending all this time and energy? If something, if there wasn't some sort of transaction going on, can you speak to what they believe they were doing when they were in this valley of death? We need to remember that the dominant culture of the ancient Near East, and that's a term that basically refers to the lands of the Bible, Israel, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Iraq. You know, the ancient Near East basically encompasses that plus the nearby areas of Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Iran.

They, the Amorites, kind of set the religious and cultural tone for society from about the time of 2000 BC, which was roughly the time of Abraham, maybe a little before, down to the time of the Exodus. The Amorites did not see a separation between the realm of the living and the realm of the dead. The dead ancestors were always with you. Okay. It's kind of an Eastern concept to us now. I mean, you know, you get Asian cultures where that's also very true to this day. African cultures, where that's still very true. But here in the West, we've lost that. But that was the worldview of the people who lived in and around the ancient Israelites. You had to appease the ancestors and provide for them to provide sustenance for them in the afterlife. Otherwise, they faded away. They ceased to exist. I think this is, actually, I think this is why Abraham and Sarah were so concerned that they didn't have a living descendant, a son, an heir.

There's a scholar by the name of Dr. Nicholas Wyatt, who points out when Abraham tells God, you know, I'm going to have to make Abraham or rather Eliezer of Damascus my heir. Dr. Wyatt believes that the phrase Damascus is actually a scribal correction later because the scribe didn't understand what Abraham was saying. The word hot damashech means son of the cup essentially, or Ben-Meshik rather, means son of the cup. Hot Damashik means of Damascus. So Ben-Meshik, son of the cup, the one who pours out the libation or the drink

offering every month to sustain the dead in the afterlife. Abraham's saying, look, I don't have an heir. I'm going to have to name this guy, Eliezer, my servant, as the son of the cup to keep Sarah. Because Abraham didn't have the worldview that was revealed to the prophets later or to the apostles, the disciples by Jesus. They didn't have the understanding of Shale and Hades that developed through time. There was a real change in the way Jews saw the afterlife, really during the Second Temple period, we see some of that develop, like the book of First Enic, it was believed in ancient Mesopotamia that your existence in the afterlife continued, but it was very dull, dreary, and gray. And if your descendants didn't provide

for you through this monthly ritual, then you were condemned to try to subsist on clay and dirty water. Wasn't there something, too, about having your name said to where, like, if people stopped naming you, then you would cease to, I don't know, Right. As in the pillar of Absalom, because he had no son to keep his name in remembrance. And, you know, we see this today, and I'm going to be very careful about this because I got a conference, a virtual conference yanked off the internet for making this point. But there is a social justice organization that's very famously been going around the country the last couple of years and saying their names and then pouring out a drink offering in honor of those who have fallen in confrontations with the police. And then the founder, the co-founder, and the head of the Los Angeles chapter of this organization, openly said in an interview, which you can still find on the internet, that they understood that they were literally summoning spirits of the dead. And this was a spiritual working.

It's like, this goes all the way back to the Amorites of, you know, Abraham's Day and before. So this is more than 4,000 years old. And this may be, we don't know. And this could be also be a very dumb question. But we have the golden age. And then God pronounces judgment. No us in his family are saved. And the Nephelam, and the watchers are in prison, Nephilim were wiped off the face of the earth.

And then Noah restarts it. And then at some point, they somehow return to this idea of worshipping the spirits or the dead Nephlim, the heroes of old. And perhaps even the watchers, we've talked about Gebekliatepe and Karhan Tepe and their potentially watcher connections. So you have, this happens, though. We get to the Emirates and they're doing this. How do you think this that we got from a family being saved? And we know there were sin there because all kinds of stuff having to know in his tent right after, right?

All these things go down from there. But do you think it has to do with a second, sort of a second incursion in the return of the Raphaim? And they remind or there's hidden knowledge because you would think everyone's wiped out that they would have memory other than no in his family of this horrific golden age and sort of the devolution of the earth into this place of carnage and cannibalism and destruction and death. and hedonism. So it's fascinating to me because, you know, obviously we have Deuter Army 32 and the dividing of the nations too. So we have these territorial spirits and these entities that are placed over nations. So I could see that being part of it, I guess.

But at some point, these amorites, which are familiar with Abraham are practicing this thing. Where do you think they got that? Because we went from a place of God saying, nope, and just Noah and his fam. And then I don't know how much time passes because I'm not good with, the chronological order necessarily, but at some point we're back to this debt, and this is we get to the Valley of Shadow of Death, we're to this death cult, to this idea of

we were worshipping these gone demigods of the golden age. I actually deal with this in my book, the second coming of Saturn. We did an episode of one. Very clever, the product plays me. That's great. You did a good marketing. You did a Pepsi can and be like,

this episode brought to you by Pepsi. Sharon pointed me to the work of a husband and wife archaeologist, a team from UCLA, Giorgio Bucilati and Marilyn Kelly Jolati. They've been working at a site in northern Syria, started working there around 1990, if I remember right, called Tel-Mozan. They very quickly realized this was a city that was a religious center for a people group called the Hurrians. The Hurrians, in the Bible, they're called the Horites. They're very busy.

Yeah, not to be confused with the Russians. Hey, he's got it. They're just hurrying. Derek, they miss it. Let's go. Yeah. Yeah. Archaeology humor. I love it. I'm here for it. Anyway, they found as they excavated this site, and they dated the city probably to the middle of the fourth millennium BC, so about 3,500 BC, that it was founded by a group of people called a culture called the Kura-Araraxas civilization or the trans-caucasian civilization. Kura and Araxes are the two rivers on either side of the Caucasus mountains in Armenia, hence the name. They've got a very unique style of pottery so they can trace their movements from their origin point around 4,000 BC, 4,500 BC. They began to spread out kind of like the northern arc around Mesopotamia.

So if you looked at a map and looked at the Kurdish regions, really, of Turkey, Iran, Iraq, Syria. That's where the Hurrians were concentrated. But they moved down to the area of the Sea of Galilee, really, by about 2,300 BC. And they continued on even further south. And they were all through the Bible, even though we don't really recognize it. The Kings of the East in Genesis Chapter 14, who came all the way from Ilam, which is modern Iran, to fight against Sodom and Gomorrah. They did battle with the Horites at the edge of the wilderness of Peron, which is down near Mount Sinai. So the Horites were all through that area.

There's evidence that the king of Shechem in the days of Jacob, whose name was Hamor, may have been a Hurrian. the king of Jebus, the city of the Jebusites, Jerusalem in the time of David. Arana, he bought the threshing floor of Arana to stop the destroyer from slaying all the Israelites because of David's sin of calling the census. Arana is a Hurrian word that means Lord or King. So these Hurrians were all through the area. They were more important in biblical history than we realize. As part of their worship of their creator God, whose name is Kumarbi,

Qumarbi was just another name for who the Romans later called Saturn Greeks called him Kronos. The Canaanites called him L, the Amarites called him Dagan, the Babylonians, the Acadians called him NLIL. Same God, different names. The Hebrews called him Molek.

He's still around. He's still around, still influencing the world to this day. I argued in that book, by the way, that he is also Shemi Yaza, leader of the watchers. And the one they call the destroyer who comes out in Revelation 9, Abadon or Apollyon. I think it's the same entity by different names. Anyway, to worship

Qumarbi and to summon him from the netherworld to ask him for favors, they dug a ritual pit, a necromanic ritual pit. The Bucillates found that this thing at Urquash, which is the name of this sacred city for the Hurrians, went down about 45 feet. They could only get down about halfway because they were concerned about the walls of this thing falling in on the diggers. So they dug down and dated that portion of it to about 23, 2,400 BC, but they figure it goes back to about 3,500 BC. This was how the Hurrians worshipped their gods of the netherworld. Kumarbi, like Kronos, like Saturn, and the Greek and Roman myths, had formerly been the king of the pantheon. He became the king of the pantheon by overthrowing the sky god and castrating him in the process.

And then in turn was overthrown by the... Yes. Yeah. I mean, it was bad enough when Kronos used a sickle, but Kumarbi did it with his teeth. You're making a good statement. Yeah. Basically, the sky god is powerless now because he's not a man. Anyway, he was overthrown by this storm god, Zeus, Jupiter, bail to the Canaanites,

Teshub to the Hurrians. And that's why the storm god was the king of the pantheon. Again, this was a key part of their ritual. The priest would go down into this pit. Again, down into a pit maybe 10 by 12 in dimensions, but 25, 30 feet below the surface would scribe a magic circle on the floor, sacrifice a small animal like a lamb or a puppy or a piglet, and then summon these gods from the netherworld and then send them back to the netherworld when they were done. Now, these people, the Hurrians, again, they can trace their movements because of their

very unique style of pottery. They trace them back to about 4,500 BC or thereabouts on the plains of Eurret, okay? The plain, the lowlands below the mountain where Noah landed the ark. And the name of this ritual pit is the Abi, the A-B-I. 1966, before, you know, 25 years before the site of Ur-Kesh had been found, a scholar by the name of Harry Hoffner, who's a Hittiteologist, found and made the argument that, etymologically speaking, based on linguistic rules, the obzu of the Sumerians, that word abzu, the abyss, could not have been the origin of the Hurrian word obi. It was the other way around. The Sumerians got the word abzu from the Hurrians.

Okay. It's also the origin of the word in Hebrew Ove, which is usually translated in the Bible as medium. In other words, when Saul went to visit the medium of Endor, he visited the Ove of Andor. And remember Samuel, the spirit of Samuel came up from the earth. She had a ritual pit. This was a practice brought to Mesopotamia and brought to Canaan. It's in the new world. We did a whole episode on Chaco and then you have the Sonotes.

You have these. So this is what I'm going to, this is. Yes, the Kiva. The key, that's what I'm trying to think of. Sinoeta is the cave. We talked about those at Chaco. You have these ritual. So all of this, we know that like when the spirits of the Nephilim, the demons, their

punishment would just stay here. So you're thinking, are you saying in these pits, they channeled the spirits of the dead nephalum? And you think there was an impartation of this knowledge to worship not only them, but potentially their fathers. Yes. Who were the watchers. And that ignited this cult.

Dude, this is, this is super interesting. because you know where that comes from, right? And you've got, it had to be this medium. And I'll let you finish on this because this is a great point. Because if the same word we talk, we talked about the Witch of Indoor and the medium of indoor, whatever it is, who called up Samuel. I mean, it makes sense because, you know, something doesn't come from nothing, obviously. Right, right.

Well, we also talked this week, Luke. We just talked to Hugh Newman about Kaharan Tepe. And it's basically how it was dug down into the ground, like Quebec, Tepe, you know. Right, right. And then you have these structures, and we were talking kind of loosely about why, why do they build some of them in the sky? And why do they build some of them and like dig them down into the ground? And it seems like you have both those metaphors going on all the time in the, and the megalithic societies where they're like a ziggurat and then like a pit. Yeah. And in fact, that's the, that's the way it was set up at Orkesh. And also at Eridu, which where you've got the Abzu, the Temple of Enki, which I believe was the Tower of Babel, which would have been the largest zigurot in. Mesopotamia if it had been finished, but archaeologists digging their back in 1949, discovered that the final level, which would have been the biggest zigerot, bigger than the temple of the moon god, the ziggurat of Err, was suddenly abandoned and covered over with sand, mysteriously, you know, unless you read Genesis 9. But the same thing at Erkash, where

they had an elevated platform about 90 feet above the plane, and they had the temple on top of that, and then next to it was the ritual pit that went down about 45 feet. In Sumerian, the word Kerr, which means mountain, also means Netherworld. Just like in Hebrew, the word Arets means earth, but it also means the netherworld. You have to look at the context. So, you know, as above, so below, it means both. I think that's really interesting because the chief god of

Mesopotamia, the Mesopotamian version of Kumarbi or L. Enlil, his chief, his main epithetor nickname, was Great Mountain. Now, did it mean Great Mountain? mean great below because by the time of Abraham and Lill had been sort of replaced at the, king of the pantheon over that period between Abraham and David by Marduk. And he had been demoted to the netherworld where he became one of the judges of the netherworld. So yeah, great mountain or great, you know, great underworld.

Yeah. I've always wondered, you know, you have, you have Paul referencing principalities and powers above and below, you know, powerful class of, he says, demon gods that are held in these dark worlds in bondage. So, you know, obviously the Tower of Babel, they're building this tower up to try to access heaven, and then they're building these pits to try to access the underworld. They're always trying to access these different realms. And it seems as though, you know, we see those circle pits all in South Africa, too. We talk to Michael Tellinger. There's, there's thousands and thousands of these pits that they dug and they look like spirals into the ground. And he says there's just remnants

of giants all over South Africa. And then we have these, you know, mounds all over North America, all over the world, pyramids all over China, South America. Yeah. And so they're all doing the same things. It's like the ancients understood how to access these realms and we're just sort of finding the clues. Or we're building CERN. It doesn't make any sense to us. we're building CERN, but it's like, but we're not, I mean, we're doing it with technology, but

they were, you know, using the earth to access. And I just think it's interesting because, you know, the biblical writers kind of mention these things, but it just goes right past modern day people. We don't even understand like, you know, okay, what is, what is really

Paul talking about? What are we arming ourselves? Well, it's like Kaiser, it's like Heiser always talks about, like with Revelation, right? It's like that they, when John was writing this, he expected you to know all of this stuff in the Old Testament. Paul expected you to know all of this extra biblical literature that he references. Yeah. It's, there's this like requisite baseline knowledge that they were writing to, which I think

was beautiful about some of the stuff that Mike Heiser does, is that he's saying, you're not who they were writing to. You have to understand they had, they thought they were writing to a class, to a class of people, to a generation of people that had this knowledge had read these books and lived this live experience and it's not yours. And that's what I think is fascinating about this understanding like, man, when you talk about where Jesus was baptized and then you realize, oh my gosh, if you, it lived there at the time, you'd like, hey, that's very significant.

Not only is it, is a fulfillment of prophecy, but look, it's here. It's just like he's preaching at Mount Herman, but he's doing this here. This is what they do here. This is where they worship the dead here. And this is Jesus basically claiming back those things which have been so. stolen, which he does, in the spiritual, enduring crucifixion, takes the keys back. But he's doing this as he's walking,

walking around doing his ministry after 33 years of age. He's doing it strategically. That is a huge eye-opener to me, just understanding what he just said about the way that they tried to access, and the things we know from the archaeological record about that these ancients did and where they were, and how we date them and how we relate that to the chronology of the Bible and understanding,

oh, they're in these pits trying to summon things. And these things they were summoning were telling them, this is how, essentially telling them like, it's the, it's the enumelis, right? It's the inversion of the creation story. The serpent is the creator of God. And this is pantheon of gods, and they're really all kind of inter-battling anyway. But it goes back to the original, to the dragon and the follow-watchers and all these rebellious characters that are, vying for the worship of man and the adoration of man into his own destruction and at enmity with the god

with the god of israel and god of the bible no absolutely absolutely and the question i get asked though is if if you're right in in this theory and this god who led this rebellion this this fallen elohem and he's now in the abyss according to peter second peter two verse four for god did not spare the angels when they sin but cast them down to tartarus tartarosis in the greek where they're in chains and gloomy darkness, according to Peter and Jude, how is it possible they're still influencing the world today? Mob boss in prison, baby. It's... Well, exactly.

Mob boss in prison. I mean, that's the answer right there. And I think there's even a clue to this in Ezekiel 32, where he is writing a polemic against the king of Egypt. And he writes that, you know, Egypt is delivered to the sword, drag her away in all our multitudes. The mighty chiefs shall speak of them. But it's chiefs of the gibberrim is the actual term. The mighty chiefs shall speak of them with their helpers. out of the midst of shale. They have come down, they lie still, the uncircumcised, slain by the sword.

So it's clear when you read the Septuagint translation, which was the version created by Jewish religious scholars about 200 years before the birth of Jesus, that those mighty chiefs are, in fact, the Nephilim, the spirits of the giants destroyed in the flood. And then verse 22 in Ezekiel 32, Assyria is there in all her company, its graves all around it, all of them slain fallen by the sword, whose graves are set in the uttermost parts of the pit. The thing about the name Assyria is that in Hebrew, it's Asher. Asher was used for the nation Assyria. It was also the name of the capital city of the Assyrians. And it was also the name of their chief deity, which was the Assyrian version of Enl, or L or Molek or Saturn, Kronos, Baal, etc. The same entity. So is it, Assyria is there and all her company or his company in the far reaches of the pit.

which I think is a reference, and this is speculative. I've not cleared this with a Bible scholar or Hebrew scholar. This is speculation on my part. But I theorize and I propose that this is a reference to Asher slash NLLL slash L slash Molek in the far reaches of the pit. In other words, the abyss, Tartarus. But still somehow in contact with these mighty chiefs, the mighty, the fallen from among the circumcised, that's verse 27.

And there are some scholars who believe that that word fallen, Nophilim in Hebrew, should actually is mispointed and should read Nephilim, the Nephilim. And when you read the Septuagint translation, it's clear that that is who they are referring to. They slept with the giants who had fallen from eternity in the Septuagint, who descended into Hades with weapons of war. So, yeah, I think these are the minions. The demons, the giants destroyed in the flood are the minions who are still acting as intermediary.

between the surface world and those rebellious Elohim who are in the abyss in Tartarus. Man, there's some, my mind is like thinking we could really get into like some topics to put the rest some of the ancient alien theories because it's just, they're just, they're real, I mean, it sounds like what you're saying is some of these names are just the same, it's the same character, just different names, different cultures, interpretation of the same story. But I don't want to go down that rabbit hole as much as I do want to. I want to talk to you about, so we know on, we've talked to you extensively and other people on a show about how Jesus goes to, you know, Mount Hermon scholars think that, you know, when he transfigures, he specifically goes there to do that, that miracle. And then, you know, he goes to the Temple of Pan to say, this is my, this is where I'm going to proclaim against the, you know, the gates of hell.

So you're telling, and then so what I want to ask you about is his baptism, right? because here we have him go into a specific place to be baptized. And if we follow the line of thinking that he goes to specific places to do these miracles, what does his baptism have to be there for? Because from my understanding, baptism is very much dying, going down, and then resurrecting coming back to life. It is not lost on us as Christians. I mean, it is lost on us as Christians.

What we're actually doing when we're getting baptized. as we are dying and being reborn. Well, that's part of it. But Peter had another explanation for it, too. First Peter 3. Mike Heiser has taught on this, and we had the honor and the privilege of hearing him teach on this when we were in Israel together back in 2018,

at the Jordan River. So there's jealousy everywhere, man. At the Jordan River, and Mike was teaching on 1st Peter 3. And he's told the story where a church that he was attending years ago, where the pastor was going, you know, verse by verse through the Bible, and he gets to 1st Peter 3, and Mike's like, okay, this is going to be good. And the pastor said, well, okay, this next part is weird, so we're just going to skip it.

And Mike's like, verse Peter 3 beginning in verse 18, for Christ, for Christ, for Christ, that he might bring us to God being put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit in which he went and proclaimed to the spirits in prison because they formerly did not obey when God's patience waited in the days of Noah while the ark was being prepared, in which a few that is eight persons were brought safely through water. Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body, but as peel to God for a good conscience. And he goes on from there. He connects baptism to Jesus descending during the three days between the crucifixion and the resurrection to proclaim to the spirits in prison. Now, the Greek word translated spirits never refers to human spirits in the Bible unless it is specifically qualified as such. Jesus, and the spirits who did not obey in the days of Noah? Who else is he talking about? Yeah. These are the watchers, the sons of God from Genesis chapter 6.

Mike tells the story this way, you know, to refer to him again, but it's a great story. He basically says, Jesus descends, shows up in the abyss in front of Shemiyazel and the rest that are in chains in Tartarus and says, okay, bet you didn't expect to see me here. But here's a news flash. At dawn of the third day, I'm getting out and you're still dead. Let's go. That's what baptism is. Baptism is a declaration of victory over these rebellious entities that thought they could create a hybrid army to take dominion of Earth away from the children of Adam and Eve. Every time we baptize, we're basically sending a message to the abyss.

Hey, we got another one and you're still dead. Wow. I like that. And that's in the place of veneration and worship of the dead. Jesus, not even feel Isaiah 41, but he declares his victory. declaring victory. And saying, you're still dead. You are worshipping still dead entities. Isaiah 26, I think, is a prophecy. One of a few that are in scripture, but I think this one is the most obvious. We don't see it in English because most English Bibles translate the word Repaim, the spirits of these giants, into words like the shades or the dead.

Isaiah 26, beginning at verse 13, O Yahweh our God, O Lord our God, other Lord. words besides you have ruled over us. But your name alone, we bring to remembrance. They are dead. They will not live. They are Raphaim. They will not arise. To that end, you have visited them with destruction and wiped out all remembrance. Remember the name? Wipeed out all remembrance of them. And then you go down to verse 19 and Isaiah writes, your dead shall live. This is about the faithful. Your dead shall live. Their bodies shall rise. This is a prophecy of resurrection. direction. This is Isaiah, you know, 700 years before Paul writes 1st Corinthians 15. You who dwell in the dust, awake and sing for joy, for your due is a dew of light and the earth will give. Now, this verse is difficult. The earth will give birth to the Refaim. Okay, now this is based on the Masoretic Hebrew text, which wasn't completed until about 900 AD. So almost a thousand years after the Septuagint. The Septuagint makes more sense. The dead will rise and those in the tombs will be raised. And those in the earth will be cheerful for the dew from you is a remedy for them,

but the land of the impious or the land of the ungodly will fall. Did I like to have? A scholar by the name of Brooke W.A. Pearson wrote a paper on that verse alone and said, this being written in the middle of the period of history, you know, after Alexander the Great conquered Judea, can, you know, when the Jewish religious scholars were very, very aware, of what their Greek neighbors believe, which is why you've got translations in the Bible, like the Valley of Refaim becoming the Valley of the Titans or Valley of the Giants. This is a reference to Tartarus, the land of the ungodly, the land of those who created

the Nephilim, who will not be raised up. I think Ezekiel is also referring to this in Ezekiel 39, verse 11, when God says the army of Gog of Magog will fall in the valley of the travelers east of the sea, and it will block the travelers. Interesting. What does that mean? It will block the spirits of the Refaim. I think what it means is, as Isaiah writes, when the dead are raised up, like Paul writes

in 1st Corinthians 15, we will be raised up into incorruptible bodies, but they're still dead. It's phenomenal. Is this have anything to do with in like Matthew 27 when the dead rise after walk around? Yeah. And walk around. Do you think that has any connection?

I think that was sort of a foretaste of what it is because those people probably died again. I mean, they were not raised into incorruptible bodies, but the energy released when Christ was resurrected affected the faithful who were in the tombs. The fact that Matthew mentions it, you know, it's like there were witnesses out there who saw this happen. Walking dead, people just cruising out of their tombs.

Yeah, sure, yeah. David W. Lowe wrote a book about this some years ago called Earthquake Resurrection because it points out that at the time of that happened, there was a massive earthquake. And geologists and seismologists have now confirmed this. they found evidence of a massive earthquake that took place in the region of Jerusalem centered at course samples that were in like near the dead sea dated to about 31 AD give or take a few years and of course being skeptics they say but this is where Matthew got

the story of the earthquake at the time of Jesus like okay all right you know I think this is so important because I think a lot of people walk away from their faith because they don't understand the concepts of living and dying and why Christ had to die and why Christ had to come. And I think that's just lost on modern day humans, especially when we're trying to understand the Gospels, because you have to go back if you transport your mind back to the way that the ancients understood life and death, the way ancients stood the underworld, the way all these concepts that, that, you know, preachers just preach the end of this movie. And it's just so confusing because, I mean, I don't know, I think people can still get saved and find Christ, but they

don't, I don't think they really understand what they're doing a lot of times, especially when we're young and we come up, you know, we go into these Christian camps and we get excited and we have this experience, but we don't, it's like we don't really know what the concepts of life and death and all the salvation. And it's just great to have these conversations because I think it gives more context and meaning to how the ancients understood it and the cult of the dead and what they were trying to do. And like, like Luke was saying, it's sort of the inversion. Yeah, no, I agree. I think. I think it's much, it's really exciting when you see and you begin to understand the lengths to which Jesus went to buy back our freedom from these entities.

You know, the wages of sin or death. I mean, that's what we deserve. There is none righteous, no, not one. This is a very long game. And these spirits have been playing it for a long time. I think that the creation of the giants, the hybrid creatures who were on the earth before the flood of Noah, were there to destroy humanity, to take dominion of the earth away from humanity. The spirits of those demons condemned to wander the earth until the judgment.

I think their purpose is to try to pull us away from the one thing that will save us from a bad end, which is accepting Jesus Christ and his sacrifice. But we don't really understand the stakes. I mean, there's so many churches today, some very popular New York Times best-selling Christian pastors who turn Jesus into sort of a cosmic life coach. Right, right, yeah. And you live your best life now. No, no.

The best life is the life that comes after the resurrection. If I'm living my best life now, I'm doing it wrong. Isn't it ironic that, not ironic, it should be expected, but the irony is not lost on me that like a lot of, even in Christian churches, but a lot of the messaging is self-love, love yourself. And it's so contrary to the message of Christ. It was die to yourself. Pick up your cross daily.

You know, reject your flesh. Die to your flesh. Starve the flesh and feed the spirit. It is, it's not unintentional. It's very intentional. And it's just funny because so much of that is swept into the church. And it feels like it is a watered down. And like what Nate was saying.

I like to understand the context. You can believe on Jesus and you will be saved. You're the thief on the cross and you will be with him in paradise. Right. Right. But no one knows the height of the depth. There's so much to discover and understand about the God we serve. And I think the more that we unpack this stuff and have these conversations and just

understand the things that you're pointing out from geographical locations to adjacent cultures to the environment and atmosphere that was going on when these were written, it's just such an enriching of understanding, especially when you understand the supernatural realm, and those two things were not separated as they are now for us in a lot of ways, right, in our culture. the way they operated, it's such a rich tapestry to understand how much Jesus was doing when he was here. And then also just the understanding of the Old Testament. We brought up He said a few times.

We had him on episode 34, I believe, Nate. He basically told us he could spend the rest of his life in Genesis. And I thought it was a really fascinating thing to think about because Genesis is a lot, a mystery in a lot of ways. It's the beginning and all the stuff. but if you don't understand the context to which is written and who was written and the language and stuff, it can be something that you want to skip, and a lot of people do. It's just like that verse in first Peter. It's like, we'll skip this because it's weird, you know.

All this circumcision and other weird stuff and Genesis, we're going to skip all this, you know, but it matters. And you don't need to make Jesus any more than he is. But I think that the impression of the magnitude of the things at which he did, when we sit with you, Derek, and we sit with people that have spent the 10,000 hours and we unpack some of these things. It's just the magnitude of the prophecies fulfilled and the intentionality and the things that he did in the physical that also were so intentional in the supernatural or the spiritual realm. I just think it makes it a God that something you can't wrap your hands around. I think that's what people want sometimes is comfort and to wrap you can wrap my arms around this and you can't.

I think just like modern day, we worship science, right? we know all the scientific laws. And I think the ancients knew the spiritual laws. And they were just as real as modern day, Newton, Galeigh, all these guys that try to prove these laws of how nature works, right? And I think the ancients understood the spiritual laws. And they knew how to manipulate them. And they knew what they were just as real as our modern day, how we use math and technology to build things. I think the ancients understood the spiritual realm.

and the world. Even those who were in complete rebellion against God, way more than we do. There were laws. There was an understanding. There were books. They knew what they were doing. And so many modern Christians try to interpret the Bible with none of this knowledge. And it's just confusing to them. They don't understand. So they just omit things because like, like you're saying, they just don't read that verse in Peter. It's just too weird. So we're not going to read it. It's, you can't read the Bible like a modern human. And I think that's what we tried doing on our show. It's like, hey, the weird stuff's here. The creatures are still here.

You know, let's go, let's get in a time machine and go back and figure this out. So that's kind of what I was going to say is that I think they understood this. We don't know what they are, but there's these laws that they seem to operate and understand very well. We kind of discover them. We're like, oh, that's probably why they were digging down on the ground and building that thing in the air. And I don't know. It's just, we just think, oh, that's a nice, fancy pyramid. I'm like, no, there did something out.

something we don't even know what it is, you know, so. They were so primitive and simple. They thought they could literally build a tower tall enough to reach the sky. No, I'm sorry, the engineers in ancient Sumer knew that mud brick was not going to reach high enough to get into the sky and reach heaven. Yeah. So, yeah. Derek, I got, you know, we started out talking with the Valley of Shadow of Death and kind of

wanted it. And we did a big circle and I love it. I think maybe my last question is, you know, the more famous verses is Psalm 23. And though I walked through the valley of the shadow of death, I fear, no, evil. And in understanding now, like the amount of where, you know, where we believe it to be, and the amount of dolmens and it being right in the epicenter, or at least a, or touching the epicenter of this cult of the dead, what do you think they were so afraid of? What was happening there? You think that would, if you walk through there, not be afraid and I will fear no evil.

I mean, listen, like everyone's going to interpret it as metaphorical, but I don't think we live in that space. It's not a metaphor. This is, you don't need a rod and a staff to protect you from a metaphor. Is this something real? So my thought is, what do you think is happening there that elicits this kind of response from the psalmist from David? That's really an interesting question. Sharon has really done some good teachings on this. And she's pointed out, and I should have noticed this, that Psalm 23 follows Psalm 22. Okay, that seems kind of obvious. But we need to remember that when these were compiled, there were no chapter divisions. They're seamless. Okay. There were no chapter division since Psalm 22 is a messianic prophecy. It's the one that begins with the line quoted

by Jesus on the cross. My God, my God, why have you forsaken me? We see in verse 12 of Psalm 22, many bulls encompass me, strong bulls of Bashan surround me. They open wide their mouths at me like a ravening and roaring lion. Again, with the anti-supernatural bias of modern Bible teachers, oh, well, it's because Bashan was a land famous for its cattle. Actually, that's the not true. There's a scholar by the name of Dr. Robert Miller the second who wrote a paper a few years ago and pointed out that based on the soil in Bashan, you can't grow enough grass to pasture cattle. Yeah. There were no bulls of Bashan, the paper that was titled the Bales of Bishan. He said that these bulls were not bovine, they were divine. It's a supernatural thing.

And of course, this is a reference that Jesus draws upon on the cross. So maybe we should pay attention to that. I mean, verse 19, but you, O Lord, do not be far off. You, my help, come quickly to my aid. Deliver my soul from the sword, my precious life from the power of the dog. Save me from the mouth of the lion. You have rescued me from the hordes of the wild oxen. That term wild oxen is a reference to the orox,

which was a giant strain of cattle in the ancient world. And probably one of the faces on the cherubina. Again, I think we're dealing with supernatural entities here and not just a wild, not a murderous cow. We're not talking, save me from wild animals here. And the 23rd Psalm is like, okay, you're leading me into enemy territory here. This region where the cult of the dead is known, the pagan gods, their pantheon, which is the enemy of the god of the Bible. Right.

Okay. This is David, of course, writing the 23rd Psalm. And he was familiar with this area north of the Sea of Galilee, by the way, because one of his wives was the daughter of the king of Gesher. which was based at Beth Saida. So he was familiar with this area. He chased a rebel all the way to a city called Avel Beth Ma'aka, which is at the north end of this valley. David knew this area.

But he also knew that this was where, this was like the beating heart of the Canaanite religion. There are Canaanite myths that place the activities of Ba'al, I only say it that way so scholars know that I know that that's how you're supposed to pronounce it, Ba'al. Anyway, in that Hula marsh. Okay, this was an area that was known to be important to the Canaanite religion. And I think what David is saying is here is even though I'm in the middle of enemy territory,

I'm no longer on the ground sacred to Yahweh. I'm on the ground sacred to this enemy pantheon, this foreign pantheon. I will fear no evil because you, my good shepherd, are with me. And Sharon puts it this way. And I think it's a beautiful metaphor. Because when we go out into the world and we're confronted by, as Paul wrote, the principalities and powers and cosmic rulers over this present darkness, the humans that are cursing God and doing these ungodly things are not angry at us.

They may be swearing at us. They may be spitting on us, whatever, but it's not us they're angry at. It's him, it's God. And they themselves are just human shields for the principalities and powers behind them. So when we are confronted by these spiritual struggles, these entities that are trying to distract us, demoralize us, discourage us. It's like, hey, look, the shepherd is right behind us, and he's got a rod and a staff. And that rod is used for a cosmic beatdown. So if you've got a problem with me, power, principality, throne, dominion, whatever, talk to the shepherd because he's right

behind me. And I think that's what this is all about. They use those tools to kill wolves and lions. I mean, if we're talking about actual, like, you know, what shepherds add. Yes. Now, get this. Again, talking about the valley of the shadow of death. In verse five, You remember we talked about how the Golan Heights, that area, is ringed, covered with these dolmens, these monuments to the cult of the dead. Psalm 23, verse 5. You prepare a table before me in the presence, in the presence of my enemies. You anoint my head with oil, my cup overflows. Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life.

Many of us have memorized this Psalm when we were in Sunday school. Are we saying it? But no. Sharon gave this presentation on the 23rd Psalm at a conference in, Well, in your neck of the woods, actually. We're in Murphy Spurrow a couple of years ago. And she said, now imagine this. In the Valley of the Shadow of Death, surrounded by these dolmens.

A table. And 200 people just all went, oh, all at once when they got it. You could hear the intake of breath. That's my wife. She's pretty smart. I think this is what this is about. This is another reference to that. The Valley of the Shadow of Death, it's a literal place.

And Jesus, again, declared war on it with his baptism. And then he declared his divinity three years later, right at their headquarters, the base of Mount Hermon, and then the transfiguration on the summit. Yeah. He's like here. Is he talking about, is the, you know, the cup he's talking about? Is that similar? Is that talking about what they did at these domen's when they're trying to offer to the dead? There are many archaeological finds in the ancient world.

like the kings of the Amarites from this period of history, depicted in their tombs as a basically a seated posture with the right hand out holding a cup. Because when you're just a regular human dead, your descendants had a call you once a month on the 30th of the month. The kings got called twice a month on the 15th and the 30th, based on the tax that had been found. And that was their cup was there.

You fill the cup up, so the king has something to drink in the afterlife. And you leave food offerings in these tombs. for the kings. So yes, I think the cup running over was again in mockery of these dead and the cult of the dead and the fact that in their worldview, they had conned humans into doing these rituals to support them in the afterlife, you know, not knowing that this is not how the afterlife actually works. The Last Supper is a reversal of that, whereas the fallen realm, these fallen angels and the demons that inspired all these pagan religions wanted the shedding of blood, especially human

blood. You know, the cult of Molek, still very active today. The number one cause of death on planet Earth is terminating unborn children. Anywhere between 42 and 75 million per year, based on world health organization statistics, depending on which part of their website you believe. That is how they are sustained in the afterlife, shedding of human blood. Jesus shed his blood so that we would have eternal life. Completely reversed it. Wow. Derek, man, I love, I love these discussions. I love having you on me. It feels like you're getting like a, you know, a year-long course and in about 90 minutes and it just, but it always makes me think about these things. And also just the understand. I mean, I'm not going to rehash what I've said before because

it's the same thing. It is just, it's, thank you for for the work you put in and the research you put in to share these things because I think they're so profound. It's so profound. You know, our little show, I'm just glad people get to listen to this because I, I think it's so important to understand contextually the things that are, that our God did. Yeah. You know, to bring us back into, bring us out of enmity with God into a place and back into God's family. And it is, I don't know how we get on an Israel trip with you and go and go do this, but I think that I would love to just to have you point all these things out in person because

my brain gets a little scattered trying to figure out where Galilee is and what's on the other side of this and what's on the side of that. I have a lot of maps saved on my heart drive over here. He's got a lot of maps in that office. Before you go, tell us about, you know, you said you've got a book coming out. Talk about some of the things you're doing. Well, you can five days a week at SkyWatt TV with the daily news update called 5 and 10. And Sharon and I produce about, I, I know, four hours of content a week ourselves. Our weekly Bible study, the Gilbert House Fellowship, which is a verse-by-verse study of the Bible,

releases a podcast on Sundays. My podcast, a view from the bunker goes up Sunday nights. We've got Unravelling Revelation, which is our weekly 30-minute program for end times prophecy. And what's the other thing? Oh, PID Radio. We brought that back, the podcast that started the whole thing back in 2005. So early on in the game that Apple was actually begging people to submit. They wanted content, right?

And they're like, no more. They're like, stop it. Exactly. Now it's like, stop. Okay, we're overwhelmed. But we're still there. We got in early. So they've grandfathered us and grandmother's.

So we go find those cassette tapes and pull them out and run. put them in the stereo right spin them up yeah oh no we were we were early adopters we were doing MP3 before MP3 is record you guys are content machines it's amazing you guys just

but we got a free app where people get all of it on the app you can find that at our website gilberthouse org this the upcoming book will be called the Gates of Hell but we're also doing a video we're going to Israel actually well we'll be there a month from today come to think of it as we're recording this and we're going a few days before the tour so we can

shoot some video at sites that we're not going to visit on tour like this other site near Beth Saida, that's similar to Gilgal, Raphaim. We're going to the serpent mound of Bashan. We're going to go to Tell Avel Beth Maaka, which a scholar named Edward Lipinski, points out as the place where Enik delivered his message to the weeping angels. Wow, okay. He's like, yeah, this is a well-regarded scholar, and he said, okay, yeah, it's got to be here at this location. And that's right on the edge.

That's right on the edge of this valley, the valley of the shadow of death, this Hula Valley. surrounded by dolmens and we hope we hope we're going to get a chance to go to that uh shemir olman field with that massive dolman with the 50 ton capstone yeah so we'll be shooting video there and we want to put that together into a presentation or a documentary if you will to go along with the book fantastic well we'll be on the look up that's awesome Derek thanks again man for everything yeah it's just great thank you so much and yeah thanks just for for teaching us tonight this has been fun yeah yeah yeah that's an all right enjoy this i'm still that first grade kid that you used to come home from school every day, say, hey, mom, guess what?

Yeah, now it's just, hey, Sharon. Or mom, mom, you know, seven o'clock in the evening, hey, mom, guess what? Derek. Yeah, exactly. Why are you calling me, Derek? Dude, thanks so much, Derek. Appreciate you coming back on Glory Creatures. All right, man.

Thank you. We'll see you. Say how to Sharon. God bless, sir. All right. You bet.