Blurry Creatures - EP: 167 Angels in the Andes with Tim Alberino

Episode Date: May 2, 2023

Tim Alberino is back to take us on a fascinating journey into the blurry history of Peru. Tim lived in Peru for more than a decade and in his travels, he went to remote villages and met native people that had remarkable encounters with legendary creatures. Deep in the mountains, the locals told him stories of a strange race of cloaked-white-haired Nordic-looking men that live under the Andes. Some of the native people told stories of these men coming and going on strange metallic craft and appearing many times in villages in the remotest parts of the Andes mountains. Local priests told Tim of giants and strange red-eyed entities that acted as the gatekeepers for arranging meetings with these mysterious "Viracochas". Local legends of these sightings go all the way back to the earliest post-flood civilizations that allegedly received help from these entities in rebuilding after a great cataclysm. This is a topic that Tim has never spoken on publicly and his first episode on the Viracochas of Peru.  support the show! blurrycreatures.com/members Guest: timothyalberino.com Intro song: Dreamkid83 contact: [e-mail] blurrycreatures.com Socials instagram.com/blurrycreatures facebook.com/blurrycreatures twitter.com/blurrycreatures Music Kyle Monroe: tinytaperoom.com Aaron Green: https://www.instagram.com/aaronkgreen/ Mastering: ironwingstudios.com Outro Song: TimeCop1983: timecop1983.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Luke so often people email us and they have this story. They're out in their woods and they're looking in the bushes and they go, what's that? And when you are pouring your dog food and your dog's bowl, that's the last thing you want to say. What is that? What is this stuff coming out of this bag? You know, I don't think a lot of us think about maybe what we feed our dogs. And that's why we partner with rough greens.

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That's RUFFF Greens.com discount code blurry. Rough Greens makes any dog food better. Listen, Luke, we know that we live in a world where everything is fake, fake food, fake clouds, fake news, everything's fake. And you know what? You get tired of it. And you're just like, if I want to buy a shirt or something nice, can I just, please give me something real. Quinn's is an amazing company that does high quality everyday essentials. So we're moving in.

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So you're paying for the quality, not the brand markup. And everything is designed to last and look good, baby. Well, if you want stuff that's the real deal, go to quince.com. Like we have, got a whole fleet of new T-shirts this last time, man. Because I'm ready for the spring and summer. I got 100% ringspung cotton shirts. I got a couple floan it shirts or light and air to wear around, work in the yard, or wear to the studio. If you're like me and you want to get some new threads for the summer,

refresh your wardrobe at Quinn's. Go to quins.com slash blurry for free shipping and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada. You're in America's hat. You want the goods. You can get it now. Go to Q-U-I-N-C-E dot com slash blurry for free shipping and 365 day returns. Quins.com slash blurry. The survivors of this cataclysm were living in darkness and they were suffering. And in the midst of this period of time, there appeared these men in the Andes. They were fair-skinned. They had beards, long hair.

They were dressed in white cloaks. They had sandals on their feet and staffs in their hand. The people called them the Bita Cochas. The history of our earth is so different from what we can imagine. The Smithsonian, that if they found out about a large skeleton somewhere, was to go get it. I'm going to assume at least one person is right, because if one person's right and bust the paradigm, it all goes back to the fallen chair. And the problem with the modern day church, they have a very truncated view of the supernatural.

This backdrop is just pregnant with all kinds of meaning. with this Mount Herman event. And this guy defects from the kingdom. That's a big deal. Well, let's just get into this because we can't seem to do intros. Now that we talk to you all the time, Tim,

we don't know how to do the intro anymore. We're like, we're friends now. We text message. We make jokes off there a lot. We exhaust all of our creativity before we get to actually start recording this show. It's a pre-roll. On the pre-roll, right?

I will say, though, one of our goals with you early on in the show was Luke and I would talk afterwards. We're going to crack. We're going to get him to crack. We're going to get him to laugh. And you just didn't give it to this first few episodes. I don't normally, not too jovial on the podcasts, but in real life, it's different. I know. No, in real life, for sure, right?

I know. You go into lecture mode. A brunch alberino is quite jovial. If I'm not in lecture mode, you wouldn't get anything interesting out of me. And here's this professional transition for you. And you could get Tim in three different ways. You can get him in Costa Rica. You can get him in Peru or you can get them on the podcast.

What will you choose, Luke? I choose yes and. Yes and is what we're choosing, right? Because we got, our listeners know this. We have a sold out trip to Peru, our first blurry expedition end of June with Tim Albarino. If you haven't listened to the show, a lot, Tim lived for quite some time in Peru, with a pipe and a cloak and a dreadlocks.

I mean, it is quite the visual. Someone actually painted it for us. And it was in all of its glory. So, yeah, that would be the blurry expedition, right? Yes, yeah. And then we had BlurieCon. You came to BlurieCon, so we had the conference. and now we're announcing a third.

We got something new, Tim. What do we got? An excursion event. We don't know what to call it exactly yet, but we call it the explosion. Tim, Tim just calls it an event. We are, well, let's put it this way. In conversing with you guys, we realize that, you know, your audience and my audience, one of the, one of the most appealing things about these events is that they get to come together

and spend time together, meet each other, and hang out. So we were just kind of thinking, where would be the coolest place for all of us to hang out together and also be able to delve deep into topics on a different level than just a normal conference? And so we decided that we want to do this in Costa Rica. And so we've programmed an event in Costa Rica for 2024, February 6th, second through the fourth,

2024. And this event is going to take place in what is definitely one of the most adventurous locations in Costa Rica, the Manuel Antonio National Park. This is literally the closest hotel to the jungle. Like, it is ensconced in the jungle. There's monkeys climbing around the railings and everything.

So they have a facility in this hotel that accommodates up to 150 people. So this is not a big event. This is more of an intimate event. It's going to be very informal. I'm going to be there, obviously, and you guys are going to be there, and we're going to be hanging out, talking about a variety of topics. We might have some special guests pop in, talking about a variety of topics, but what makes this difference different from a conference is that we're going to be able to really, really, as I said earlier, delve deeply into some topics with a lot of audience interaction. And obviously, we're going to be hanging around that hotel in that area, you know,

going on canopy walks. There's trails right into the jungle right behind the hotel. The beaches right there. So you have the ocean and the jungle. And we'll be hanging out in the town there and doing some fun stuff in the area. So it's a great place to converge to plumb the depths of certain topics that, you know, even on a podcast, we cover. so much ground in an hour and a half or whatever. But this is going to be even more in depth than

that because we're going to have a lot of time to really explore some of the more controversial topics, some of the more complex topics. I might even, I'm thinking about it, nobody can hold me to this yet, but I'm thinking about even discussing, relating in a very, in a very abridged manner, some of what happened to me when I was in the Amazon. This would be the appropriate location to do this, believe me. So I probably will be inspired to talk about that because we're going to be literally, as I said, ensconced in the jungle. But this is not like deep jungle, you know, roughen it kind of an environment.

This is like resort, beach, and the fun in the jungle. So it is like the perfect place for your guys' fans and my fans and listeners. to come and converge and just really the fans of these topics that we talk about, the people who have been tracking with you guys and tracking with me regarding giants, aliens, Bigfoot, all of these topics will be discussed. And so I think it's going to, I'm really looking forward to it. It's going to be a blast. It's going to be a blast.

So again, it's from the 2nd through the 4th of February, 2024, it's taking place in the Manuel Antonio National Park. Now, if people listening to us want to actually be in that hotel, they should get tickets quickly and book their rooms as quick as they can. And we'll have information. You're going to get a discount because you're part of our events. So you'll get a discount at the hotel and we'll provide you with that information. And also there's a lot of little hotels in this area. There's really cheap hotels like 50 bucks a night. And then there's like some resorts. So it's really an eclectic mix of different. different hotels from two star to four star hotels in the area. There might even be a five star hotel in the area. So plus there's also a lot of Airbnb rentals in the jungle there that are right in that area. So it is the perfect spot to go hang out and have fun. Tim, what I love about this idea is that really what, you know,

what blurry creatures and the Tim Alberino, you know, the Venn diagram, what you find in the middle is really community. And so what I think is amazing, this is really going to be an interactive. intimate community event limited spots it's it's going to be three days in Costa Rica it's in the jungle so what we're telling people I think we want to tell people is it's in the winter here in North America so you can get get away you can kind of winter plan a a vacation in a sense in Costa Rica and spend three days with us in the national park diving deep into the things that this community loves in a very interactive and intimate way and you know

know, as Tim was saying, like, you know, book your airfare, book your, book your hotels, come and spend three days. You can spend five days a week in Costa Rica. That's really your prerogative. But these three days are going to be, are going to be direct, interactive, interview, audience participation type podcast topic events. We'll delve into the stuff that we do on this show with Tim. And then we're going to go do canopy walks and go to go into the jungle and then spend time

fellowshiping together. This whole thing, I think the most amazing thing about blurry, you know, this little project, this blurry creatures project, is the community that's grown around this. And people, I know love the opportunity to meet like-minded folks. And what better place to do it than in a warm place in February, in the jungle, spending time talking about these things that we believe are so important to contextualize within a biblical paradigm and within our faith. And then also, hey, have some fun. This is going to be fun.

Everything we do on this show is meant to be heavy and fun. And I think this sort of encapsulates that. So we're super excited. You know, we've got Peru and June, Costa Rica in February. And the Costa Rica trip is going to be a conference-like event unlike any other, unlike any other. It's not going to be stuffy, formal. It's going to be very jungle and very vacation, but also very deep and interactive and a place.

a place where you can intimately talk about these things that we talk about on the show. Yeah, it's going to be very informal, that's for sure. And like you said, it's vacation, I think, is the word. I'm bringing my family, my kids, we're going to be hanging out there. I'll probably be there a week early hanging out around the little town there. And, you know, like I said, a lot of people listening to this, I'm sure have been to Manuel Antonio. It's one of the premier spots in Costa Rica for tourists. It's super safe, easy to get to.

It's paved road all the way there. So you're not going to be bushwhacking. and you're not going to be, you know, off-roading in the jungle. We probably can if you want, though, right? Tim, we could probably make that happen. Yeah, and that's, you know, and honestly, we were talking and we said, what, how many people do we want to? Before we really selected this location, we were, we were talking and trying to decide how many people do we want to come to this event? We don't want too many people because then it's going to feel like a conference.

We want this to be more intimate, like a vacation atmosphere and, and again, be able to like have a lot of audience interaction, our discussions and stuff. Sometimes it feels like when you get that phone bill, it's like, the crash site document. You can't read it. There's a bunch of numbers, random fees, vague language, stuff's blacked out. You're like, what am I actually paying for? I don't know about you, but I like keeping my money where I can see it. I like to be simple. I like to be easy. I'm going to be thrown away money on big wireless carriers. You too can say goodbye to overpaying for wireless, get a simple bill. And that's where Mittmobile comes in. So stop overpaying for wireless, just because that's how it's always been. That's what you do. Mint Mobile offers premium wireless

service for a fraction of what the big carriers charge. And you get to keep your phone number, get to keep your coverage, most importantly, and it runs on the nation's largest 5G network. So the question becomes, why has everyone been acting like this has to be expensive? It doesn't have to be. Dr. Judd Burton's out there dialing up blurry every day, giving us the scoop on what's going on in the academic world and the ancient world on Mitt Mobile. Loud and clear on the job sites, way out in the middle of nowhere, Texas. And if you want to save money, just like the illustrious Dr. Judd Burton, switch to Mint Mobile.

If you like your money, say where it is. Metmobiles for you. Shop plans at mintmobile.com slash blurry. That's mintmobile.com slash blurry. Up front payment of $45 for a three-month, five-gigabyte plan required equivalent to $15 a month. New customer offer for first three months only, then full-price plan options available, taxes and fees extra. Seamintmobile for details. So we said 150 people. That's what sounded good to us. And I literally found the only hotel. I put my finger on the map because I've been to Costa Rica. I'm pretty familiar with Costa Rica. And I put my finger on the map in Costa Rica.

If I could be anywhere in that country, I'd want to be right here in the Manuel Antonio National Park. And literally, there's one awesome hotel there that accommodates 150 people in a conference room. So it's a perfect location. And by the way, it's summer. February is summer in Costa Rica. So it's going to be hot and should be dry. And there's going to be a lot of wildlife.

This is like probably this is the. This is the location, probably the most dense fauna out of anywhere in the world, probably in the San Antonio National Park. And there's a lot of animals in this area. So if you like wildlife, like I do, I love monkeys and I love jungle animals. And my kids love these animals. And so that's, it's just, you know, it's like it's adventure, it's jungle, it's ocean, and it's fellowship and again going deep into these topics. It's like a cruise.

We just don't get on a boat. Without a boat. Yeah, we eat together. And maybe, yeah, all that. Maybe I will get into what happened to me in the jungle. If I do, it'll be, again, it'll be an abridged version. You know, there's a lot of other topics to talk about. Got to talk about Bigfoot.

And, uh, no, I love it. I love it. I love it. I think sometimes, you know, the, you know, people want to get involved in the podcast and and be more, you know, there's like this informal thing about how. having kind of a vacation, but hanging out with some of the, some of the people that you've come to. I know a lot of our members have become friends with each other. So basically, yeah, it's like blurry creatures vacation, sort of we call it the, the explosion,

just sort of like, not quite the expedition, but it's still kind of an excursion. We're going somewhere. We're going to have fun. We're going to hang out with you guys. It's a lamb cruise. Yeah. We'll do some bonfires. Maybe we'll eat some food.

We'll be at the hotel. And we're going to do a lot of deep, deep podcasting, try to get, it's something about, something magical about being in the room together and that energy and then people can ask questions that we're going to try to interact. It's going to be really fun. So yeah, we will be doing also a VIP event. Probably the night before, right? The night before the conference, we'll be doing a VIP event. Probably, yeah, the day before. We don't know exactly what it is yet, but we've got some really fun stuff in the works. I think Tim's going to swallow swords. There's going to be monkeys and fire. I mean, you can expect there will be all the bells and whistles. We are all

going to get stung by a bullet ant the day before the conference and see what happens the next day. This is like that, there's a TV show that we're like Fear Factor or something. Then we get then we have to do a show all stung by bullet ants. It's getting weird. It's turning into a YouTube. We're turning into a YouTube show right now. The other thing I would say is that this is going to be offered to blurry creatures members first. So in order to get your ticket and to have a chance to be one of the 150 to join us in Costa Rica in February.

If you aren't a member yet, make sure you check that out. Go to blurry creatures.com slash members and take a look. This is one of the perks, right, is you get the first crack at the trips we do. This is the same thing, Tim, we did with Peru, same thing with BlurieCon. Those things never hit the public, and I have a feeling some loan either. So if you'd like to join us in Costa Rica, here's a great push to join and become a member of Blurray Creatures. But yeah, no, we're going to have fun. It's going to be like, if you want to plan a vacation, it's kind of like all the,

of things in one. I think that's what I like about this idea. It's just everything. A little bit of, a little bit of vacation, a little bit of podcasting, a little bit of paranormal, a little bit of weird, but all that stuff and fun, in a fun location, in a safe place, and just a bunch of people hanging out. So, but speaking of the jungle, oh boy, here we go. Great transition, Nate. Love it. We got to talk about some things on this podcast. We have not talked about yet, Luke. We're always texting Tim, like, hey, Tim, give us the good. What have you really not talked about on a podcast before? What do you really want to talk about?

How do we find a new angle for the, you call us the blurry bros? The blurry bros and Tim put our minds together. And he said the Vera Coaches. So I was like, oh, that sounds awesome. I don't know anything about them. Okay. Well, this is a very fascinating subject. I love talking about the Vita Cochas.

I didn't say that right. You said it better than that. Well, no, you said it right. I just said it the way they would say it in Peru. You've got a great Peruvian accent. I mean, it is. I have a jungle. I have a hillbilly jungle peruvian accent, actually.

But this is a subject that is fascinating. I don't often get a chance to talk about it because I'm always talking about, you know, giants, aliens, all that kind of stuff on shows all the time or theological topics, which I also love talking about. But this is a topic I just never really get a chance to talk about. As everybody knows, as you guys said in the beginning, I lived in Peru for 10 years. I lived in a jungle. I was up in the Andes.

I was all over Peru. I lived there both before I was married and then also after I was married. My wife and I lived in the city of Terrapoto. Two of my kids were born there. Two of my kids are Peruvian American citizens. And so I've had a lot of experience. I loved hanging around. One of my favorite things to do wherever I went was to hang around with the old timers,

the Ancianos, as they call them in Peru. He's hanging around with these guys, and I hear a lot of stories. A lot of my friends in Peru, these older guys and gals were hunters and would trek deep into the mountains. And then also, you know, I have colleagues who've worked in Peru like Anselm P. Rambla. Maybe some of you are familiar with Anselm P. Romola. He's a Spanish explorer and researcher. I featured him. He was featured in the true legends films.

I forget which one off the top of my head here. One of the true legends films that Steve Quill and I produced some years ago, and Anselm has been a good friend of mine ever since. I've been on expeditions with Anselm. I have some upcoming films here that are going to be released before long, actually, in the spring, probably, late spring, early summer. And I've gone up to look for lost cities in the Andes with Anselm. And we've explored the desert of Paracas and the megaliths at Kusko.

And Anselm's an amazing guy because we have to lay some a little bit of historical groundwork here. The epicenter of the Inca Empire was a particular temple in Kusko where we're going in June. And we'll actually be here. We will be in this location. It's called the Kori Kancha. And the Kodi Kancho is a Ketua word. it means the place of gold, the cordiconsia, because the walls of the cordiconsia were lined with plates of gold and silver, because within the cordiconsia, this was the primary temple, the premier temple of the Inca. This was the epicenter. It was both the religious center and the center of the Inca state was the cordiconsia, the place of gold. And within the cordiconsia, they had various little temples inside, and one of the temples was the temple of the sun, which the sun was represented with gold. And then there was the temple of the moon,

which was represented with silver. And so you had silver and gold covering the walls. And in fact, they had a garden outside of the Kodi Kancha that was full of life size figures of animals and people, life size, that were cast in pure gold and pure silver. It was just loaded with treasure, gold and silver. And the conquist. Easterers caught wind of the fact that this temple existed and that there was this incredible amount of treasure there. So, but the story goes that when Atalpa was captured, and this is, I won't go too deep into the history because it'll take up the whole show, but when the Inca emperor, the Sapa Inca, Atalpa was was captured in Kahamaika, for those who know the story, I'm familiar with the story. It's a fascinating story. This, this, the history of the conquest of Peru. You had Francisco Pizarro with about a hundred, 76 or so Spanish conquistadors. And they marched to the city of Kahamarka, unopposed by the Inc.

And this is going to factor into what we talk about in a little bit. So I'm laying some historical groundwork. This is going to tie into Ansel in a minute here. So I haven't lost my train of thought of him. I need to lay this foundation. So Pisado marched his conquistadors, again, unopposed, up to one of the major Inca cities called Kahamarka. They found that the city was deserted.

There was nobody in the city. and the reason why there was nobody in the city is because the Inca knew they were coming. And the king, the Inca emperor, the Sapa Inca, as they called him, the Inca king, Atawalpa had gathered his army on the mountains on the hills surrounding the city. And all of the villagers were out encamped with the Sapa Inca. And so Pissarro and his conquistadors marched into Kahamarka. They took up residence in the central square. again, Kahamaako is an Inca village, an Inca city. And long story short, fascinating tale, look it up.

But I would direct everybody to the book, The Conquest of Peru by, I always forget his name, the most eminent American historian. And I always, Prescott by Prescott, who also wrote a fascinating book about the conquest of the Aztec. And the story that he tells is just absolutely fascinating. So I really commend everyone to his work. long story short, Atawalpa, there's a reason why Attawalpa is waiting, the king, the Inca King, Atalpa is waiting for the conquistadors to arrive. There's a reason. We're going to get to it in a little while. So just let's put a pin in it right there. There's a reason that we'll talk about. But eventually he comes into the city of Kahamarka with his royal procession, with dancers and music makers and all the pomp and circumstance. And he comes thousands of Inca, cram into the central square to confront the Spaniards.

Not to confront them militarily, by the way. Rather to greet them or to be greeted by them, really. But the Spaniards, again, long story short, they train their guns and their cannons on Atalpa and his litter. Attawapa was being carried in a litter. And they rushed all of a sudden. They rushed in. There's a reason why they did this.

It's in the story. Basically, Atta Walpa was handed a Bible by a priest. and he threw it on the ground. And that was the justification for Pissado and his men to attack, which they did. And they charged and they fired the cannons into this crowd of Inca. And of course, the Archibusieri's and the swordsmen charged. And they captured the Inca king, the Sapa Inca, Tawalpa. They captured him off of his litter.

And this is when they found out that there was this place called the Kori Kancha, this place of gold, where this tremendous wealth was, this tremendous amount of treasure, gold, silver, and probably other precious metals and gems and so forth. And then what proceeded was what's called the ransom of Atalba. Once the Inca king, by the way, was captured, the empire froze. The Inca Empire had 10 million subjects. It was huge. But before Pisado got there, they were, a lot of the empire was wiped out by,

A lot of the citizens were wiped out by smallpox, other European diseases, and they had just concluded a civil war. Atalpa versus his brother Waska in Altawapa won. So now Altawapa is captured by the Spaniards. And again, what proceeds is the ransom of Altawalpa in which Pisado has the Inca king send out messages through his empire saying, we will release your king to you if you give us gold and silver. And Atta Walpo told the Spaniards that he could fill up two rooms, basically, with gold and silver, above their heads. And this is when they learned about the Kori Kancho, the place of gold and all of the treasure that the Inca had. Okay. Now, fast forward.

So, as I've said, this location, the Kori Kansha, was the center, the epicenter of the Inca Empire. It's extremely important to archaeology, to the history of Peru, the history of the Inca, and nobody is ever allowed to excavate in this location except Anselm Pirambla. Ansel Piramla was allowed, he got permission miraculously to excavate in the Kodi Kancha. And Ansel was looking for something very particular when he was there. He was looking for this legendary tunnel that runs from beneath the Kodi Kansha, and those who are going to be in Kuska with us, you're going to hear me retell this story live from the Kodi Kansha. There's a legendary tunnel that runs from beneath the Kodi Kansha, one mile in a straight line to the galleries beneath the megalithic walls of Saqqq Sawhamun. Now, this tunnel is a legend.

Historians do not believe it exists. It's the stuff of myth and legend because, going back into the historical context, the Pissarro and the conquistadors ultimately ended up killing Attawalpa. He did actually fulfill his end of the bargain. He filled up the rooms with gold and silver, nearly, nearly to the degree that he had indicated. But they killed him anyway. And actually, Pisado became good friends with Attawalpa. So it wasn't like, it was a very difficult thing for him to do. but they couldn't leave the king of the Inca Empire alive as they're marching into the heart of the Inca Empire to Kusko because that was their plan.

Now they're headed for Kusko. Misado and the conquistadors are now marching to Kusko. They're going to seize the Kori Kansha. They're going to seize all of this treasure because they didn't feel like they got enough treasure. So the Inka priests, what do they do? They organize the sequestration of all. all of the most important and valuable treasures of the Inca and artifacts, religious and otherwise. And what they did was they assembled a large group of natives, and they took all of their most valuable possessions,

especially the most sacred relics in the Kori Kancho, down into the tunnel beneath the Kori Kansha, and they hid them in the galleries, in the cave system, beneath the megalithic walls of Soxai Waman. beneath Saksaiwaman is a massive cave system tunnel system. It's called the Shinkana. Okay. And I apologize if I'm being confusing. I'm weaving back and forth between periods of time. So now, going back to Anselm P. Ramla, Anselm is excavating at the Kodi Kansha.

First guy ever really, really, he's a Spaniard. So it's really unprecedented. And it's an amusing story of how he got permission to do it, too, by the way. Anselm is excavating. What do you think he's looking for? He's looking for the chinkana. The chinkana beneath the cordi concha. The chinkana is the tunnel.

Now, we're not talking about some crude tunnel. We're talking about an elaborate tunnel lined with stone walls. So the reason why Anselm is excavating here in the Cody Concha, and this was back in... Go ahead. No, I was an ask you about to say it. Because I was an ask when this was, because I know we're jumping around. time period. So when is this excavation happening? I think this was back in the 90s, like 97, 96. I might be wrong. I can't remember exactly.

It was, it was sometime around the 90s, I believe. And this is, this is something like, you know, when you watch all these shows, like Graham Hancock's new show, and they have all this new technology, these underground tunnels seem to be under most of these megalithic sites, right? Exactly right. And it does, it does not sound unfamiliar in the sense of like, it sounds a lot like what you hear about with the Ark of the Covenant, right? As this impending invasion is happening, they are sequestering these relics and they're placing them up. People would someone say that the Ark rests beneath Temple Mount, right, in these places where it's hidden. And I don't know that's true or not, but it's, man, it sounds a lot like some of the things you hear in these other

legends, right? Correct. Legends. Yes. Yeah. Right. So the reason why Anselm is digging is because some years prior he was doing excavations at Soxaiwaman. By the way, Anselm proved that Soxaiwaman is pre-Inca because he dug down, they did the archaeological trenches, and he discovered pre-Inca artifacts in the lower levels, which means, and there were stones, stone walls. So you have the stone walls and pre-Inca artifacts. Soxaiwaman was not built by the Inca. I wrote a little song to remind you, choice hotels, get you more of the experiences you value. The can be a hotel's got it all. A rooftop bar, have a ball.

Bring a date, your squad, or even your mom. Book direct at choiceotails.com. So, and again, we'll be at Sachs. I want to. This is so much juice for our trip. Yeah, this is awesome. I was just to say, this is fun because you guys are going to be in these locations. So getting back to Anselm, he's the reason why he's digging there.

He's looking for the chinkana. is because a few years prior, again, he was working at Soxaywaman, doing some archaeological digs, and he heard of the legend of the shinkana. And so what did he do? He took a couple of his guys, and he decided they're going to go over to the Cordicanscha. Now, you have to understand that, like so many other Inca temples, the Cordycancha was, let's say, was, it was captured by the Spaniards and then donated to the Catholic Church. And so what did they do?

They built a Catholic priory and a chapel, a temple, a rather a cathedral, over the Inca ruins. And so today, if you go to the Kodi Kansha, you can still see the ruins of the Inca temple, but you're also going to see the Cathedral of Santo Domingo. The Dominicans took over the site. And so Anselm is going to go speak with the prior of the Dominican order at the cathedral. And he goes there and the prior is there. And the prior, by the way, is the head religious official at the priory. And the gentleman is there.

And Anselm gets an audience with him. And Anselm told him, he said, I heard a legend while I was digging at Saq Sawham. And I heard of a legend of this thing called the Shinkana, this tunnel that runs beneath from the Kodi Kansha, so basically beneath the cathedral, to the galleries, beneath the megalithic walls of Soxieh Woman. And Anselm said, I heard it was a legend, and I just was wondering if you had any information. And what happens next has never happened before. It was just uncanny. What happens next is the Pryor says, yes, the legend is true.

Here, I'll show you. And so the Pryor takes Anselm. They go into the chapel, into the sanctuary of the church, and I'll show you guys this location when we're there. they lift up this trap door. They move some stuff out of the way and there's a trap door because there are crips beneath the church. There's always crips beneath these old churches. That's where they buried.

It sounds like a Dan Brown novel already. You're like, you open up the trap door and the church and there's crips and then guess where that goes? Well, that's where they buried. They would bury the clergy, the dead clergy, but also the villagers would be buried, the Christian villagers. And then those crips would fill up really fast as the cities grew. But you would normally find the clergy buried.

beneath these churches and these trips. So they open up this trap door, go down into one of these trips. And Anselm has a couple of guys with them. They got flashlights. And the prior, and I hope I'm saying this right, prior, because that's what it is in Spanish. I'm just assuming that's what it is in English. When I say prior, what I mean is the head priest at this facility. He takes Anselm and his guys over to the far end of the crypt where there's this wall,

like that looks like it was hastily built out of bricks. so it's sealing up a tunnel. And there's some bricks removed and some loose bricks. And Ansel asked if he could take some of these bricks away so that they could look into the tunnel. And the priest said they could do that. And so they removed some bricks and then they took a flashlight and they flashed inside the tunnel.

And what they saw was not some crude earthen tunnel. Rather, what they saw was a exquisitely built artificial tunnel lined with megalithic blocks in the very same manner as the temple above. So you have the andesite blocks and it's in that trapezoidal configuration, trapezoidal door. So imagine like a trapezoidal door,

but as a tunnel. The walls are lined with stone for one mile. He's flashing his flashlight in there and they see this incredible, and it's big, this incredible tunnel, artificial tunnel and they thought, my God, the legend is true. So at the end of this tunnel, one mile, we're going to be under Sox-Saiwaman and confronted with who knows what, treasures and whatever, right? So Anselm obviously is very excited and he turns to the prior and says,

let me go get my guys, the rest of my team, we'll take this wall down and let's go into the tunnel. We'll document it. Let's do this. And the priest suddenly, Out of nowhere completely, his demeanor totally changes on a dime. And he says, no, no, no, no, seal it up. Seal it up. Get out of here. I should not have shown this to you. I made a mistake. Get out of here. I should never have shown this to you. All of a sudden, his demeanor changes. And he basically kicks him out, throws him out of the church. So fast forward a few years. Ansel miraculously obtains permission, acquires permission to dig in the Cordy Concha. He's digging in the cordi cancha because he knows that the tunnel's there. He saw it. So he's trying to find that trap door. He's trying to find that crypt. And the whole objective, and only he and his team know this, by the way.

The objective is to get in to the cordi cancha, or rather the chinkana, to go beneath the cordi cancha to make entry into the shinkana and enter the galleries beneath the megalithic walls of Soxai Waman. By the way, probably there are artifacts. related to the real builders of that megalithic complex, Oxa Waim, beneath it. And Tim, why do you think, I mean, we hear this a lot. And obviously in places like Peru, the government's a little bit more lax. Remember talking to Derek from Megalithic Marvels a little bit about how when you find elongated skulls, you don't find them in America. The ones here are whisked away and they don't exist. But you can still see them in museums in places like Peru. And they discovered

some in Iran recently. Because I know like all the mounds in America, they're labeled Native American, and then the Native Americans say that we didn't build these mounds. Is it in Peru, are they the same way? Or they're like, is it socially acceptable to say that some of the stuff is not? That depends on who you're talking to. If you're talking to the establishment, if you're talking to the establishment, the archaeological establishment pushing the conventional narrative,

They're going to tell you that the Inca built everything up there, all of the monumental building. Most of it was done by the Inca. The Sox-Iwama was built by the Inca with conventional means, by means of pullies and rather ropes and thousands of men and ramps, earthen ramps and copper chisels and hammers, stone hammers. That's the story. That's the story you're going to get from them. and they are even more entrenched than we are here. You think the Smithsonian's bad? Try dealing with the Ministry of Culture in Peru.

I mean, it's a nightmare. That's why I'm saying the fact that Anselm got permission to dig in the Cody Concha is miraculous. It really is. Is it because, you know, like this sort of proves the golden age and the age of? No, it's because in Peru, it's the conventional narrative. This is people's livelihoods, and it's their pride. These are the intellectual historians and anthropologists and archaeologists. They're above everyone else.

They're the keepers of the true history and the narrative. They govern the narrative. And they have the degrees. They went to the prestigious universities in Lima and elsewhere. And they're the gatekeepers. They have their positions in the various faculties and so forth relating to their professions and they're guarding that jealously and jealous

is the right word. They don't, they all want to be the eminent archaeologist or the eminent anthropologist or historian in Peru. It's, it's worse, way worse than America. Well, it sounds like Zahi Hawa saw in Egypt the way that he...

It is very much like that. It is very much like that. In Kusko especially, in Kusko especially. So, but I want to... We saw this recently with Graham Hancock. I mean, they were saying they that all that is dangerous. They were using words like that because he was pissing off these people all over the world because he was,

he basically throws out like eight different locations. And all the experts in those areas are just, they hate them. And I mean, you know, you never see a documentary on Netflix come with so much like, this is, this is,

this is the most dangerous documentary. I'll give you an example of how bad it is, okay? Yeah. Really, really quick. An insert here. And then I got a,

get back, add an addendum on what I said earlier. But when I was in Peru, I was getting, I was pulling permits to film. We were filming a bunch of stuff in Peru, recently, not, not when I was doing a true legend stuff, just a few years ago on new projects. I'm pulling permits to film in Kusco. I'm pulling permits to film in La Cajapacchus, all over the place in Peru. And I encountered, there's a company, there's like these fixer companies that help you do the permitting in Peru. And the biggest one, I don't remember the name of it, but the biggest one, was run by the nephew of the Minister of Culture. And he called me, because we were permitting for the show,

for our documentary series, TV show, whatever it's going to be. And he called me, and he started to grill me with questions. I guess he looked me up online, probably starting to grill me questions. He said, what are you going to talk about in your film? Now, keep in mind, this guy is not an archaeologist. He's not a government official. He has a company, a business, a permissible. a permitting business, he facilitates the permitting. And they're probably the best company in Peru,

the most well known that a lot of the big companies use to do this. And he's just grilling me. What are you going to do? What are you going to talk about? And then he said, I said, well, we're going to go to some of these locations and we're just going to talk about the megaliths and we're going to talk about the Inca and blah, blah, blah. So I'm trying to be pretty general, very general about what we're doing. And all of that is true. And he said, who are you you going to say built the megaliths? And I said, why does that matter to you? Your job is to give me a permit or not? He said, are you going to talk about giants? And again, I said, I said, what does that matter to you? I said, you can approve or deny, or rather, you can choose to work

with us or not, there's other companies available, I told him, I said, what we film is our business. We can go film whatever we want. I mean, we can go shoot a bunch of videos for Instagram if we want, right? So, and he just, he got really aggressive. He got really aggressive. He's like, I know who you are. I know what you talk about. He said, aliens didn't build the temples and megaliths in Peru. Why are you taking away from our heritage? And I said, I don't believe aliens built the megalis and prune, number one. So you don't know what I believe. And I said, I have no intention to diminish your heritage, that being the heritage of the Inca.

And he just went off. He went off. He was cussing at me. He said, I am the nephew of the minister of culture. He said, my uncle would not approve of your narratives. And I'm going to talk to him and make sure you never. film a single minute of footage in this country. He just went off on me. And he went off about, you know, we're colonizers and we're changing the history of Peru and we're diminishing the

cultural heritage of the Peruvians by saying that their ancestors didn't build the monuments and accusing me of a bunch of stuff I don't believe. He was, he was obviously conflating my perspective with that of the ancient aliens folks. And those guys had been there filming. And so he was familiar with them. And so, but there was no, there was no arguing with this guy. He was, he was irate yelling at me on the phone. And, uh, I had some choice words for him as well. But, um, he hung up with me saying, I'm calling my uncle. I'm kicking you out of this country. You're not filming. He's like, you're not going to film a single minute in my country. Wow. He's like, I'm going to make sure you don't get permits for anything. So that's,

that's the hostility in Peru, okay? Yeah. And I don't encounter that hostility. here. You encounter it kind of on a subliminal level, not so direct. Sometimes you might, if you're dealing with Smithsonian people. But for the most part, that kind of aggression is rare in the United States. It's not rare in Peru. I mean, you will get archaeologists, if they hear you talking and they're walking around doing a, like if they're doing a tour, let's say, in the Cody Concha, and they hear me talking about the Shinkana, for example. They'll come over and start yelling at us. us and telling us we don't know the true history. We're bastardizing the history and so forth. It's bad. It's really bad. Okay. And a lot of work in Peru. All right. So that kind of gives you an idea of how bad it is.

Now, this addendum that I wanted to add on, you asked me what the people think in Peru about the megaliths. Well, I told you what the establishment thinks. Now, let me tell you what the actual people think. The Ketua people, the native people, the ones that you see in the colorful, clothing, the ones that still practice their traditional cultural practices, their customs, if you ask them, and they speak Quechua, that's their first language, their primary language. The Spanish is their secondary language. Some of them don't speak Spanish. If you talk to them, or if you go up like around Lake Titicaca and the Altiplano, and you talk to the IMATA people, the ancient native people, the IMATA people who speak IMAA and you talk to them,

you're going to get the same answer. Both the Ketra people and the Ayamata people will tell you that the megalith, that the megalithic monuments in Peru and Bolivia were built by a race of giants in the primordial age. That's what they'll tell you. And they'll tell you that these giants were evil and that the god Bita Kocha had to destroy them in a flood. That is what they will tell you. Wow. So somewhat familiar, Tim. Well, those are the conflicting narratives. And obviously the conventional archaeologists will scoff at that. So those are just legends. Okay, legends like the chinkana. Okay. Because Anselm's digging, looking for the chinkana now. But guess what? When he goes back with, when he gets permission to go and excavate, he goes to try and find that trap door.

He, you know, he knows where it is. So they bring ground penetrating radar in there. Just the, the old school drag on the ground. ground technology. The old lawnmower. The lawnmower, that's right. And what do they find? The crypt is filled in with debris. Wow. Somebody filled it in. Since he had seen it, somebody filled it in. So long story short with Anselm, he couldn't

get into it because it had been filled in. So he couldn't finish, he couldn't accomplish his goal because he eventually got kicked out. But that's a whole kind of a funny story, but Anselm discovered something really important in the chinkana. He was digging deep under the foundations of the church and of the temple, right? And what did he find?

He found that the foundations are green diorite megalithic. So the Kori Kancha had been built, and this is definitive, had been built on top of an older megalithic site with larger stones. Green diorite foundations. Don't they use that to build some of those sarcophagus, too? That green, I feel like that. Yeah, I think they do. Yeah, it's very hard stone. And when Anselm was under the church making these tunnels and stuff, one of the priests was under their inspecting.

And they realized that Anselm had exposed one of the primary support beams of the church. and they freaked out. They said, you're going to knock this whole church town. One false move, and this thing comes down. And so that led to a series of incidences, which ultimately led to Anselman's team being expelled from the Cody Concha. But not before the queen of Spain came to visit him. And he tore it around with her and showed her what he was doing.

There's pictures of this. And the president of Peru came. And so they were coming to see the ex-exam. excavations, he was doing these unprecedented excavations. It was a big deal in Peru. And so that's who Anselm is, and that ties into where we're going. So let me now talk about, before we talk about the Vita Coaches, let me put a bow on this story. So I'm in Peru with Anselm a few years ago filming. But I went to Peru with a new piece of technology, a technology that me and my partner, Gary Haven, possess. It's called, it's a ground penetrating radar. Actually, it's two radars that. operate off of a drone platform. And it's state of the art technology and it's, it's incredible. This technology can penetrate over 100 feet. Or rather, I should say, it can penetrate to depths and excess of 300 feet, 100 meters, 300 feet. So this technology we have, this can penetrate, ground penetrating radar to depths in excess of 300 feet. And then we also have a shallow antenna.

So we have another antenna that we can attach that is higher resolution. It can pick up a quarter buried 15 feet under the ground. So that one's high resolution. We use that for looking for artifacts. The deep penetrating antenna, we used to look for structure, tunnels, temples, temples, and stuff under the ground. And we're using this in Peru. Now, you cannot fly a drone in Kuzco. They won't give you the permission.

They'll give you maybe you can fly a little drone for filming. But you can't fly this technology we have. You know, it's pretty bulky. It's a big drone and so forth. And so what we decided to do is like, we're not even going to bother with the permitting. They're not going to give it to us. So you know what we did. We took our antenna, one of our antennas, and we put it in a duffel bag.

And our guys walked around the Kori Kancha in it with it in the duffel bag. Love that. What do you think we're looking for? We're looking for the shinkana. A tunnel. Because we know where it goes, because Anselm showed me. He said, this is where it goes. This is how it goes under the street here and it goes a beeline to Soxiehwaman.

So we're focusing on that part, but we walked all the way around. And guess what we found? We found the shinkana with our ground penetrating radar. Really? We found the shinkana. And do you know what shape it had? Trapezoidal, just like the doorways and the Cody Concha, just like what Ansel said. It's there.

Claire's day. It's not a legend. And we're, us and Anselm P. Romler, the only ones in the world who know it's real. It's real. It's awesome. So. Well, in our June trip to Peru, are we going down in the Chinana or what? Is that part of the secret?

Is the VIP? Well, you might want to rethink that. You know what Chincana means? It's a catcher word. It means the place where one gets lost. It sounds like a, it's like a labyrinth. It is a labyrinth. And people, I don't have time to go into these stories because we won't get to the Vita coaches.

But we'll talk about them in Kuzon. go. But some people have made it in there, not in this one. Okay. There is the chinkana. It's called the Chinkana Grande, which is this tunnel, this particular tunnel from beneath the Kori Kancha to the galleries beneath Soxaywaman. That's a one mile corridor and it's artificial, okay? But then there's, there's the general chinkana. The general chinkana is a mythical system of tunnels, massive tunnels, under the Andes Mountains. And these tunnels are supposed to go all the way deep into the Amazon, all the way up to Ecuador, all the way down through Bolivia,

to the coast, huge tunnel system, artificial tunnel system that incorporates the naturally occurring galleries and so forth from the magma and all of that. But artificial tunnels, and we're talking about if this is real, I know that Chincana Grande is real, the one that we've been talking about, the artificial one. But if this larger Chincana system is real, then we're talking about advanced technology and highly advanced civilization that would have made this. Okay.

And that leads us into the topic of the Bita Cochas. So before I dive into the Vita Coaches, do you want to, you have any questions? Yeah. They're building dums back in the day. Well, yeah, I was going to say. It's exactly what it is. It's like the dums. Or Lord of the Rings, man.

They go in the mountain to see the dwarves are just open the door. It's wild. I mean, just on our show, Tim, just like, just scratching the surface, there's rumors of the same thing in, you know, the Grand Canyon. They found some of these things underground. Death Valley, they were supposedly under Los Angeles. There was a, there was these, you know, the Denver airport, even Mount Chasta. We did a whole episode on how you go inside. There's like this city under Mount Chastas.

What, why are they building these, it seems like they're all over the place, these lost cities underground. What are they doing under there? I mean, because... Okay, now you're getting into the they, and that's where we're headed. So, associated with the legend of the chinkana, now keep in mind, please, when I say chinkana, there's two chinkanas. There's the mile long one that I've been talking about that Ansel saw, and we confirmed with our GPR. And then there's the greater chinkana, the large, huge, thousands of mile long, type. and caverns and who knows what under the Andes, okay?

Associated with the larger chinkana is the legend of the Vita Cochas. And the Vita Cochas are an advanced race of entities. And now we're getting into Andean legends. Okay. So I'm not just pulling this out of my butt. I mean, this is Andy and Legends. The Bita Cochas are these advanced beings who, according to legend were in the Andes a long time ago.

And when I say according to legend, I'm talking about the Quechua legends and the IMATA legends, the And the Andean legends in general. And they're the same. In Peru and Bolivia and Ecuador, they're the same. You'll find these. And you'll only find these legends if you talk to the old timers and to the native people. They will talk about this. The younger people have no idea about this stuff anymore.

Now, when I say be the cochas, it gets complicated because one of the primary deed is, if not the supreme deity of the Inca is Bita Cocha. So if you type in Bita Cocha on the internet, you're going to find that this was the creator God and so forth. And indeed, it's Bita Cocha who sent a flood and killed the first race of giants, who he created, by the way, according to the story. They were stupid and evil. Very familiar story.

Yeah, he killed them with a flood. They were the first race of people. Now this, my God, we could go for three hours. Oh, by the way, you want to hear the extended version of this, go to Costa Rica. Yeah, yeah. So I've got so many trails shooting off on different cool stuff to talk about in regard to the giants. There's so much cool stuff in Peru about the giants. But we're not talking about the giants right now. We're talking about the Bita Cochas. So this is the creator, God of the Inca, Bida Cocha, singular. But there's also the Bita Cochas. So this confused me for a long time in Peru. Like what I don't understand what's the difference is. You have Bita Cocha and the archaeologists would talk about Bita Cocha, the god Bida Cocha. The god Bida Cocha. The god Bida But then the Andean people will talk about the Bida Cochas, plural. I was like, what's going on here? This doesn't make any sense.

So the legend of Bida Kocha, the god, the Inca god, is that he's the creator god and so forth. And I told you the giants in the flood and so forth. Okay, that's Vita Kocha. The primary god of the Inca. For a while, the Inca were worshipping the sun god, Inti. But ultimately, they switched to Vita Kocha. Interesting, by the way. That's very interesting.

But as I said, I would be going in the Andes and talking to the old timers and the Ketra people, the Aymaata people, and they would be telling me about the Bida Cochas. And I would be confused. Like, oh, whoa, whoa, you mean the God Bita Kocha? They would say, yes, the Bida Cochas. I don't understand. I don't understand. I don't understand. I began to realize that there's this, very powerful legend in the Andes ubiquitous, ubiquitous among the IMATA and Ketra peoples, that a long time ago, during a time of great chaos and darkness, in the aftermath of some great cataclysm that obliterated the old world, I had a show on that. The survivors of this cataclysm were living in darkness and they were suffering. And in the midst of this period of time, they repaired these men in the Andes. They were fair-skinned. They had beards, long hair.

They were dressed in cloaks, white cloaks. They had sandals on their feet and staffs in their hand. The people called them the Bita Cochas. Their leader, they called Contiki Bita Bida Coches. He was their leader. And he had a company of other Bita Cochas with him, these bearded men. And by the way, some of the accounts said they had blue eyes. They were very fair-looking individuals, you know, almost like Mesopotamians or something.

And the Bita Cochas, again, appeared in this time of chaos and darkness. And they began to go throughout the Andes civilizing the survivors of this cataclysm, civilizing the primitive people of the Andes. And some of the tales are quite specific. They were teaching the Andean people that they should love one another, treat each other amicably, that they should set up systems of law and justice and so forth. They were teaching the, they were civilizing these people.

But it's not just civilizing because some of the stories talk about these individuals performing miracles. In fact, I'll get very specific. I've heard one of the legends says that Contiki Bidacotech, of the leader, he went walking through the Andes from village to village, teaching, healing the sick, restoring sight to the blind. He spoke every dialect better than the natives. And the people called him Comtiki Bita Kocha.

And he and his company went through the Andes, again, civilizing the populace. Okay, there are various versions of that story throughout the Andes, but those are the basic details. Now, there's something, man, I don't know if we have time to talk. There's so much to talk about here because there's so much weird stuff associated with this. I'm trying to get to the most interesting part, but Bidacocha, Contiki Bidacocha, he took a very specific route through the Andes, according to legend. In fact, to this day, it's called the path of Bita Cocha. I'm going to show. show you something. This is a document that's very difficult. I don't know if you can see this to get. Do you see that? Yeah. La Ruta de Widacocha. That means the path of Bidacocha. And this is a little book that was written by Maria Shulton, the Ebneth, who was an eminent anthropologist in Peru.

And she discovered, in this legend of Bidacocha, she discovered this incredible, what would you call it geodesic mathematical alignment in the Andes. That's mind-blowing. And I've got a film coming out where I talk about this. And basically, according to the legend, Bita Kocha, he went, he and his company all went in different directions. He sent some of his cohorts, you know, to the four different directions that make up what's called the Tawantin Suyu, the empire of the Inca Empire. The Inka Empire was divided into four sectors, which were called collectively the Tawan Tin Suu. And they're divided along very specific lines, by the way. The city of Kusko, man, I just keep getting off on these rabbit trails.

These are rabbit trails. The city of Kusko is divided into four parts. And in fact, during the time of the Inca, so it's divided into four sectors. and each sector belonged to a different native community that the Inca had conquered. By the way, all of these native people, I said there were 10 million subjects in the Inca Empire. They were not the Inca. They were all members of their various tribes, their various groups, right? They were not the Inca.

When you say Inca, you're only referencing the ruling class. That's it. Inca refers only, now this is traditionally. This is not in conventional history. We're talking about traditionally. Inca only meant the royal class, the bloodline of the Inca. And the Inca were taller than the rest of the natives. They had fairer skin.

And there are some indications, some indications that they might have had elongated skulls, some of them. There's some indication of that. I haven't personally confirmed that. but I don't find it difficult to believe. So let me just put it out there with an asterisk. They might have had elongated skulls, might have, or at least some of the members of this bloodline. The Inca were wiped out.

The Spanish wipe them out. That bloodline was wiped out. It was genocided. So the Inca is the ruling class. And the Inca say that they receive their authority, their governance from from deep antiquity and that it was their ancestors who were the offspring of the gods who built the megaliths okay so all of this sinks it all sinks with the things that all of your audience is familiar with these other stories so returning to the path to be to

coach it very very quickly because it's extremely complex the path to be to coach by the way this was very difficult to find and it was expensive to acquire there are not many of these left This is a Maria Shulton de Ebnith's booklet that she put together for a conference she gave in Peru. So returning to her work, she discovered, and she discovered several geodesic lines. Geodesic mean they run topographically over the surface of the earth, straight lines that are very interesting. But we're going to focus on one, the path, the primary arm of the path of Bita Cocha. So this, according to legend, is the path that Bita Cocha took through the Andes. Now, what you have to understand about this path is it is a straight line through the Andes topographically, okay?

And it is oriented precisely along the 45 degree angle west of north through the Andes Mountains. And the path begins in Bolivia. It goes through Tijuana, in Bolivia, and then it makes its way all the way through the most important, all of the most important. Inca and pre-Inca settlements and temples and monuments. Okay, understand what I just said. All of the most important settlements, temples, and monuments of the Inca and the pre-Inca civilizations are situated precisely along this line. And furthermore, they're all separated by precise units of measurements of terms of, of, of, measurement in terms of their distance.

Okay, just think about that for a second. Through the Andes, one of the most rugged, in hospitable places in the world, the high Andes, right through them, this geodesic line, these major Inca and Pre-Inca settlements are positioned exactly on the line, except for two instances, okay, exactly on the line, I'll mention those two instances in a minute. Exactly on this line, 45 degrees west of north, and they're separated by precise units of measurement. That's impossible for primitive people to do that. Literally impossible. And the unit of measurement, it's called the American unit, and it was discovered by Maria Shulton Diebnevna. And it's very, very, very complex, highly mathematical, and it is mind-blowing. Okay, so somebody

a long time ago, probably at least back to 3,000 BC, somewhere around there. And there's reasons why Shulton, Maria Shulton, believes that the architects of this line, I've got it right on the tip of my tongue. Engineers. The art, let's just call them the architects. The mathematicians. Ancient architects who devise this path. And keep in mind, there's megaliths along this path, okay?

Megalithic sites, some of the most important megalithic sites, like Saxiwomen, like Tijuana are right on this line. So, and she has a reason why she believes that the builders, the architects of this, of the path of Bita Cocha were doing this sometime around 3,000 BC, somewhere in there. Okay. Now remember, this is, according to legend, the path of Bita Cocha, the path he took through the Andes. And then he went out over the sea.

And it was promised, he promised that he would return. He and his company and his consort of Bita Cochas. So Contiki and the rest of his Bita Cochas promised that they would return one day. So the gods, these people were viewed as gods by the populace, obviously. That the gods, it was known in the Andes, that the gods, the Vita Cochas, who once appeared in the Andes and did these amazing things, and then passed through the Andes out over the sea, that one day they would return again from over the sea. That's a very important point. They're going to return again from over the sea.

So there's a lot more that can be said about the path of Bita-Cocha. By the way, before we move on from the path of Bita-Cocha, I wasn't planning on talking about the path of Vita-Cocha. There are two locations that are slightly offset from the path by exactly the same degrees of this unit of measurement. The American unit, 14 American units, exactly. One of them is on the left side of the Andes if you're oriented north. And the other one is on the right-hand side of the Andes. The one on the left of the Andes, that's four American units. It is considered to be on the line, by the way.

But it's just offset a little bit. That one is called Machu Picchu. The one on the other side of the Andes up in the north, that one is called Tauri Puncu. And me and my team are the only ones who know about it. So Tauri Punco, aside from the villagers who live up there, we discovered this lost city in the Andes called Tauri Punco, which is a mirror image of Machu Picchu on the other side of the mountains. oriented along the path of Vita Kocha. That's in a film as well. An upcoming film.

So Taudipuncu and Machu Picchu appear to be mirror images of each other on opposite sides of the Andes Mountains. Taudipuncu, though, so far, I have not discovered any monumental building. There's lots of ruins out there, but they're primitive. It's not like Machu Picchu where you have these megalithic foundations. So far, we've only found primitive ruins, but they're extensive. Okay. And at the the location of Taudipunco, which again, nobody knows about except for me and my team. So. Well, now everyone knows, Tim. But yeah. And Anselm. And Anselm P. Rambo. I didn't tell you where it is. So cross the Andes, mirror image. You can find Google Earth that people. Somewhere in the Andes. There you go. And the next hundred years trying to find it now. So, okay. So now you understand somewhat. And I've just outlined the main details of the Bita coaching.

us. Tim, real quick. Like, when you, when you talk about this and coming from over the sea, if you have, if you haven't watched, we took Graham Hancock brought the film up, Nate brought it up. He didn't watch this film. This is like the his crux, right? Like, Graham is, he has so much right, I feel like, but he's so anti-Bibble, anti-God of the Bible, but he has this whole, this enlightened traveler comes over the sea

and civilized. I mean, we, we, oh, Cyrus. Yes. Yeah, right? I mean, it's the. Yeah, in the aftermath of the Younger Drys Impact. Correct. event. That's what he would say. And I don't know that I would disagree with him, by the way, on this point.

No, but if it's not cast, it's so biblical. It is... Well, I mean, the, yeah, the, obviously the correlation with the giants and the flood and all this is unmistakable. Yeah. With the biblical material and also the ancient Sumerian cylinder seal material and the legends, flood legends from all over the world. Right. And you have the, you have the, the rebellion and the watchers and the watchers and Deuteronry 232 in the dividing the nations and the territorial spirits and you have these entities that are then, you know, taking dominion and set themselves up as gods to be worshipped. I mean, right?

I'm going to tell you, I'll tell you right up front, Luke, that I have no idea who the beat of coaches are. I have no idea. Sounds familiar in Nate and Tim, but yeah, I'm not saying you do. But it could be a lost race of elves. No, we're not doing it. We're not turned on that path. Well, I'll tell you why.

But it gets weirder. Okay. Weirder. So going back into the historical context, remember we talked about the Aztec, the conquest of the Aztec, and then the conquest down in Mexico and then the conquest of the Inca in Peru. Well, those happened about a decade apart. So you had, you know, the conquest of Montezuma and the Aztecs in the early 1520s. And then you had the conquest of the Inca via Francisco Pisado and the conquistadors who over the last year. throughout the wild but sometime in the 1530s okay so they're they're closely related but what's really

interesting is that in both cases you had a small group of of conquistadors you had a small group of guys just a couple hundred guys that conquered these massive empires with huge armies how did they do it well the first answer is yes they were preceded by disease Yes, smallpox and so forth. And then in the case of Inca Empire, their Civil War. But putting that aside, there was still a massive army in Peru. And the passes that the conquistadors had to cross, had to traverse in Peru to get to Kahamarkand and to get to Kusko, were narrow passes on mountain sides.

And it's only 175 guys. And they're carrying heavy equipment. The Inca could have easily destroyed them just by hurling down boulders on them as they were crossing these passes. They could have obliterated them. There's no question about it. The Inca could have descended on them in one of these dangerous, during one of their, while they were traversing one of these dangerous passes and knock them off the cliff. They could have. They could have had 10,000 Indians, you know, hurling stones at them and slinging stones at them. Knock them off this cliff. They could have done it. But they didn't. Why? Because the Sapa Inca, the Inca king Atawalpa, just like the king, the king,

of the Aztec, Montezuma, they initially believed that the bearded Spaniards were the Vita Cochas returning from over the sea. That's why they did not confront them in the manner I just explained. Because they weren't sure if these were the gods. They believed initially that these were the gods, the Vita Coaches returning. Now, remember when I said that, that Pissado entered the Inca city of Kahamarka, found it deserted, and the king, Attawalpa was on the hillside with his thousands and thousands of Indians and his armies, right? When Altawalpa came into Kahamarka, that royal procession, he believed he was going to meet the Bita coaches. And he wanted to see if they were really the gods of legend returning from over the sea. So you have a similar scenario in

in Mexico with the Aztec and in Peru with the Inca, this is why a couple hundred men defeated these empires. This is the reason, the primary reason. They believe that these were the gods. And the gods had their lightning sticks, right? Beaterocha had a lightning rod. Well, the conquistadors had muskets or whatever archibuses or whatever they were called, the whatever gunpowder firearms they were carrying. They were certainly carrying some cannons.

So they were coming with the lightning rods and they had shiny armor on. And they had, you know, feathers in their helms and so forth. I mean, these look like the gods returning. They had the beards. They were fair skin. They were clear-eyed. The Montezuma and Atalpa had every reason to believe that these were the Bidacochos. They came from over the sea and these, you know, galleons.

these massive ships, sailing ships, it had all the airmarks, all the hallmarks of the gods returning. You know, it makes me think like some of these middle-aged empires, sort of the crumbling of the golden age and the rebuilding, were probably some really interesting times because you have the end of one dynasty, one empire, and then you have the start of another. And so you have these legends from the previous, and they're, you know what I mean? They're influencing this next empire. It's not like now where, you know, you can't just roll into the scene. No one's going to think you're some race of gods showing up on the scene. The only thing that can happen to us is some Hollywood alien invasion and that people would believe. But back then, you, you weren't, it wasn't so

far removed that these giants existed and they were building things. That's right. And so your grandparents could have run into these things, you know, or had legends. The legends were very real. Yeah. Yeah. There was a cult of giant worship in Peru, a very real. A very real. cult of giant worship. They were worshipping the dead bodies of giants. We talked to some guys in Afghanistan. That's happening in Afghanistan now. They're venerating these graves of the giants. It's crazy. Veneration of the Nephalim. That's exactly what is. So I've been talking about two tiers of Vita Cocha. The first is the God Vita Cocha, the conventional, well-known, God of the Inca, Vita-Cocha,

and not just of the Inca, the Andes, in general. All of the Andean people worship Bita-Co. And then the second tier is the Bidacocha's, these mysterious bearded men who appeared in the Andes long ago, did these miraculous things, disappeared over the sea, promised to return, and then the Spaniards returning. And of course, the Aztec and the Inca thinking this is it, this is the event. This is the second coming of Contiqi Bita Cocha. It's a prophecy, right? Yeah. So now let's talk about the third tier of the Bita Cochas, because the legends don't stop there. The third tier of the Bita Cochas is that the Bita Cochas are still in the Andes.

Rather, they're living beneath the Andes. That there's a civilization, an ancient civilization, these Bita Cochas, these bearded, fair-skinned men living beneath the Andes. Now, this is what the Andean people believe, many of them. And do you know why? Because one of you was talking about how, you know, maybe not too long ago or maybe 100 years ago, if you were living at that time, maybe your ancestors would have encountered some of this. Well, try just a couple decades ago when not so infrequently according to the Andean people. And when I say Andy and people, you're not talking about your average. Peruvian guy or your average

Bolivian guy. I'm talking up in the mountains and the villages, the Quechua people, the Aymata people. They will tell you stories of when the older people of when they themselves or their parents or their grandparents encountered

the Bita Cochas who live in an underground civilization beneath the Andes. And do you know how they encountered them? The Bita Cochus showed up in their flying machines. Wow. And they will describe their flying machines to you precisely. They were shiny discs. And the Vita Kocha, in some cases, there's well-known stories in the Andes. In some

cases, these discs would land in a village. Out would come these individuals who look very much like us, dressed in strange clothing. Blonde, golden blonde here, they would come out. They would speak telepathically with the villagers and they would heal some of their sick and then they would get into the craft and take off and oftentimes these people see the craft going either into the ocean or into the mountain so you have this weird third tier of Bita Cocha lore in Peru and Bolivia and probably up in Ecuador

as well in the Andes and again you're not If you pull a Peruvian aside on the street and, hey, do you know about the Bita coaches living beneath the mountains? They won't know what you're talking about. But if you talk to the Ketua people, they will. And they believe that these godmen, the Bita coaches, have this underground civilization that they built the Shinkana, the general Shinkana, that they had something to do with the megaliths.

Some of the Ketua people will say that it was their sons, the giants that did it. it, right? But generally, things are attributed to the Bita Kocha and their offspring. Okay, now this is sounding real familiar, right? So, you can find this, this legend in the mountains, off the beaten path with the native people. This is the kind of conversations you can have with them. Indeed, I was in the mountains one time in this far-off remote location called Okaiyi, and it's in the central Andes. I don't even remember how I ended up there.

I just was wandering around, like, hitching rides. And I ended up, like, the end of the road. Like, literally, this is it. It doesn't go any further. This is it. And then there's, like, a vast wilderness. And on the other side of the wilderness is cha chapeyas, for example. In this case, that's what it was.

And so between Okai, which is in the Central Andes and on the other side, Central North Andes, and on the other side of Okaii, this vast wilderness. By the way, it's a cloud four. forest is Chachapoyas, the city of Chachapoyas. Chachapoyas, interestingly enough, tall, fair-skinned, red-haired natives, and lots of legends of red-haired giants over there. And in fact, in living memory, seven-foot-tall Chachapoyas natives, red hair, okay? So I'm in this little town called Okai-yi. And this is where I'm starting to learn about this stuff. And I'm with a buddy of mine. This is when I was 19 years old wandering around Peru. So we talked about this before, but I'm going to give you, that was, we talked about the jungle scene. Let me give you the

mountain scene. Me and my buddy Mike, a friend of mine from Cleveland, Ohio. And Mike, if you're listening, contact me. Mike Miller. Sounds a big Mike Miller. Mike and I, Mike was 20, early 20s, I was 19. I, well, let's start with Mike. Mike is really fair-skinned, bright blue eyes and his blonde here, really blonde here. But not only is he a blonde here, his blonde hair is braided. He's got dreadlocks and he braided. He wrapped his dreadlocks in white wax string. And so he really looks like a beat a coach of a freak show. And this is Mike. And then me, I've got dreadlocks too, but my hear's, you know, dark like it is now. Dreadlocks. I'm wearing a cloak half the time. And I got a monkey on my shoulder. Sounds like you guys had like a sweet reggae band. I just never

We're like a freaking circus. Everywhere we went and we were wandering in the back country of the Andes. You're like no tourists, no other, you know, like Europeans or Americans, it's all the native people back here. Are you speaking the language at this point? I'm speaking Spanish, but not catching me. So me and Mike were the first gringoes to ever set foot in some of these villages. Wow. So we would walk into a village, little villages, and these aren't like natives. These are like Andean people today, Indian people, still speak in Quechua and so forth, but they also speak Spanish. And they have like electricity. Well, not in all these villages, but some of them have like electricity and, you know, whatever. But very primitive living conditions. And we would walk into a village and literally the whole village would just gather around us and stare at us. I mean, I guess I would too. So the description of us that I just gave you.

And then I got my monkey that they're all entertained with. Somebody out there paint this for us, please. It was running around, you know, running around. They're handing him like bananas or whatever, bread or whatever. And we're just sitting there in a whole village would just stare at us and not say a word. They just like giggle and, you know, and whatever. It became quite irritating, actually. We were like a circus.

Okay. We were two guys in a monkey circus. and everywhere we went. But what was cool was we went to these really remote places like Okaii, because that's where the road went, and then it stopped. And we're like, okay, this is the end of the road. So if we're going further in this direction, we're hiking. And we were fine with that.

And also, I'm wearing like these junkies, which was always amusing to everybody. Junkes are they're the traditional native sandals, but they're the sort of the upgrade of the traditional native sandals because they're made out of tires. I thought that was like the Peruvian jinkos. The large jeans. I remember junior high. Luke had a pair of jinko jeans, remember? No, you've never seen jonkis.

You'll see them in two months, but you've never seen jankas. Jankas are sandals made out of tires, old tires. And only the native people wear them. Like only, gringoes never wear these things. Never. Because there's reasons for why they would never wear them. But I wore them because I was dirt poor. And also, I found,

to be quite comfortable. In fact, that's all I wore was Junkays. And so they were very amused by me. And also I spoke Hilbilly Jungle Spanish. So it was quite an amusing situation, for them at least. You're like wearing the, you're in the good year air Jesus is out there, you know, with the Junkies, they, you know, the first month you wear them, they would, they tear your feet up. But after that, and you like form calluses, it's like the most incredible footwear, uh, like sandals. After your public comes one with the rubber, you're good to go. So we're in Okai, trying to push this storyline. We're in Okai.

And we don't know where we're going to stay. We have very little money, whatever. We're just, we're fine, though. We're not like beggars. We're having a good time. We're on an adventure. And we don't know where we're going to stay. And word gets around a little town that we're there.

And long story short, we ended up staying in the priestly quarters of a Catholic church under the church. And having dinner that evening with the Catholic. priest with the priest, the head priest of the church. That was wild. He told us all kinds of weird stuff that happens in the cloud forest, including they say, yeah, there's giants in these woods. At that time, I'm not yet steeped in the Genesis 6th of stuff. So my response is, come again? Did you say giants? There's giants in these woods? Like, you mean like big humanoids? Yeah. Yeah. In fact, some of our farmers sometimes find their cows up in the tree.

I'm like, you just, you know, this is a priest that we're talking to in his, you know, priests and a couple nuns, couple of priests, couple nuns. We're having dinner with them at nighttime. You know, we're sleeping beneath this church. And like I said, in the priestly corridors, a bunch of bunk beds. There's nobody there but us, me, Mike, and this monkey. And so, and these guys, really great guys up in this village, these priests, Catholic priests, and they're telling us all these stories.

After I heard about some of these things, I was talking to the villagers, and all of them swore that this was true. Like, they all saw this. They're cows in trees. And I guess, I said, and I asked the priest, why would the giants put cows in trees? And he said, just as a joke, just to mess with us.

Are they alive in trees or dead? They're alive. Oh. In the trees. Freaking out. Sometimes falling out. And the farmers have to try and get them down. And I'm telling you, this is a pervasive story you hear.

Like, not like my grandmother. No, I had to go get my freaking cow out of a tree because a giant put him in there. Are these the same people that say that they saw the aliens or the... This is, okay, I understand where I am. I am up in the Andes between me and Chachapoyas, where all these legends of giants are, red-haired giants, okay, 15-foot giants. Between me and Chachapoyas is a virtually unexplored cloud. forest.

Spooky, freaky place. That's the context of where this is happening. So the giants are already a part of the, not only the mythology here, but are a part of the fact of the natives of the Chachapolius people who are exceptionally large at red here. So I'm up there and they start to tell me about the, with the priest. Now, these are Catholic priests, mind you, start talking to me about the Puka Niawi, the Pukanyahu. That is a

Cachuan word. It means the red eyes. The Pukanyahui. And again, these are Catholic priests. And this was confirmed by other people later on. Sounds like Bigfoot. The Catholic priests are telling us about all the legends and stories in the area. Do you have any, wait, I got to ask, do any natural Libre moments when you're there with these

Catholic priests? I've had many National Libre moments. They don't think I know about a little crap out the gospel, but I do. Oh, yes. We've had many, many, when I first saw that movie, this is a little sidebar. When I first saw that movie, I literally cried laughing because it was so relevant to me. Anyway, so the Pukanao, the Puka Nyawe, it's a catcher word. Puka means red, Nawi means eyes.

Pukaii, the red eyes. Who are the red eyes? The red eyes are this race of beings that live in the forest. They're normal size people. Or actually, they might have been actually a little taller than normal people. I can't remember. but they have distinctive features. They have red hair and they have red eyes.

And they are the gatekeepers to the Vita Cochas who live in the underground cities beneath the Andes. And so if the Bita Cochas want to meet with you or you want to meet with them, you have to go seek out the Pukanyahuis, the red eyes. This is what they're telling me. And they told me that here's what happens. There's a place that you're sent to. And this all happens to the agency of a secret society, an Andean secret society called the Capacuna.

And the Capacuna are this ancient remnant of the traditions of the Inca, the great Inca, I'm trying to think of the word, the Grandes Alamantes of the Inca, who are the great teachers and this mysterious like priest class that's very mysterious in Inca legend. And so the Kapakuna are like the modern day continuation of that line, of that society. And they're like a secret society in the Andes. And these are like real shamans, not like the shamans that are out there for the tourists. These are like the real ones. And the ones that are very, very revered in the Andes. And so they're actually practicing the dark arts. They're doing.

Yes. And so these guys are in contact with the. Pukanyawi and the Pucaniawi are in contact with the Bita Cochas who live beneath the Andes. And he told me all about it. The priests, they told me all about it. So the procedure is if you are accepted to meet with the Bita Cochas, then what you do is you go and, you know, again, through the agency of the Kapakuna, you go and you meet the Pukanyawi. And they bring you to this area where there's a bridge and they tie a rope around your waist. And then they, they have you go over the bridge. Actually, I'm getting this mixed up. You have not yet

encountered the Pukanyawi. You encounter the Pukanyahu on the other side of the bridge. So it's like the shamans are, and they're not called shamans. They're called, uh, uh, shoot, I just, I'll think of it in the minute. They're not called shamans. They're called something else in the Andes. And so these, I almost said medicine men. They're not medicine men either. They're, they're, let's just call them shamans for an honest. until I remember things or? No, until I remember the right term here. I got all these Ketchua words floating around in my head.

Until I remember the right term. We'll just call them shamas. But that's really, really diminishing who these guys are. So these guys, they take you to this bridge. They tie this rope around your waist and you pass over the bridge. And when you pass over the bridge, the reason why you have a rope around your waist is because everything is different all of a sudden. You're like in a different environment.

And you don't know where you came from or how to get out. So that's why you have a rope tied around. on your waist. And when you get on the other side of this bridge, and hey, I'm telling you what they're telling me, okay? I don't know. I'm just telling you what they're telling me and what you'll hear all over the Andes, okay? And if you go on the Andes and you say, tell me about the Pukanyahu, their eyes will get as big as saucers. Like, how do you gringo know about the Pukonial? How do you know that? So, when you get to the other side of this bridge, you got this rope tied around your waist, you're like in another environment. Let's call it another dimension, maybe.

you're in another environment, and you're greeted, you're met there by the Pucat Niawe, the red eyes who meet you, these red-haired, red-eyed beings. And then they escort you to have an audience with Abita Coaches. That is the legend in the Andes. I mean, it's wild. It really is wild because you hear it. And I've heard this story by different people through the Andes. And Anselm P. Rambla knew about it, and he was surprised I knew about it. And it's exactly the same. We both knew all the terminology, all the, the whole procedure. We were, you know, and Anselm was deep, deep into this community in the Andes. And very well known by them, by the way. I mean, it's the Verochers, when you describe them, it kind of sounds like some of these descriptions you get when the secret societies dress up. They dress up in these robes and they wear this costume, right? Do you think?

Except for the flying saucer part. Well, yeah. Yeah, that in. Yeah. But well, but do you think that some of these secret societies might be emulating some of these ancient, you know, races of, their cocha type around the world? Are they kind of getting some of their dark arts from some of these? I think that very simply, I think the beta coaches exist.

I think they are members of the elder race living in the interior of our planet. That's what I was waiting for. That's what I was waiting for, Tim. And I think that they are possibly, not perhaps not exclusively, but certainly a part of this faction is the dragon and his angels. Wow. They are living somewhere. They're not like just these, as we've talked about a million times, these ethereal whiskey beings that just like don't really do anything practical.

They're just like can morph into whatever they want. And they're almost like non-existent intangible beings. No, like these guys are living somewhere. They created a world beneath the Andes, their own domain where they exist and they have their saucers parked. You know, they've got their technology and they've got their domain. And I think there's three places on planet Earth where these guys are entrenched. I would say the Andes, I would say the Himalayas, and I would say Antarctica.

More specifically, beneath the Andes, beneath the Himalayas, or within, and beneath the mountains in Antarctica. Tim, you know, I can't help think about Shasta, though, in Lumeria. I don't know if you've heard of much about that, but we did an episode with Derek Olson about this, but the legends around Mount Shasta and how there are doorways, and there is the Lumerians. There's an entire civilization that apparently lives under Shasta.

And, you know, taking for what it is, but there's a lot of weird stuff that happens on that mountain. And I know that we're, this in some ways to me is apples to apples. What we hear about the Andes is there is stories of giant, J.C. Brown, right? Nate, there's stories of giant, giant, Yeah.

Coffins and really a crypt for giants. And then there's this city under the mountain. And the Lumerians live there. And they were at war with another civilization that was, I don't know, under Russia. I can't remember the right thing. David Politis said, Luke, that the most disappearances of people going missing is in Yosemite in the mountains. Yes. I've heard that.

So. Well, you know, there could be a lot of things going on there. Yeah, true. But let's, let's. Antarctica. The Himalayas and the Andes. I like the Andes. Now, now let's make a differentiation here, okay?

Because you have a lot of these sort of legends that are new legends. These are legends that were created, not the ones I told you. Those are ancient Andean legends. This is like 1800s, J.C. Brown. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. New legends that are created in primarily new age type circles. Yeah. And like, believe me, I've watched this happen.

Okay, let me give you an example. in Peru, up near Puno, up in the Alti Plano, Peru, 11,600 feet or whatever it is, there's a place, my God, I'm sure, my brain is like scrambled right now. I'm trying to switch directions here. All these names, okay? This is definitely a three-parter, I think. There's a place called Amaru Muru. Amaru Moodu, okay? And it's an IMAO word. and I'm sure you guys have heard of Amadumuru. Amadu is this sandstone rock face with this doorway carved into it. Haven't you encountered this? And you see pictures of it online all the time. There's one like in Sedona.

But you see pictures of this online all the time. It's called Amadu Moodu. It's not really called Amadu Moodu, by the way. But that's what it's known as. You look it up online. All these new age people go. there's called Amadu Moodu, and it's outside of Puno, and it's supposed to be this supernaturally charged location and blah, blah, blah.

I camped in front of that sucker, okay? And it was weird. I'll tell you that right now. It was weird, okay? But I went to Amadu Moodu, and I had with me a Imara translator, because up there it's the Iamata people, not the ketchup pizza, Iamata people. And in fact, right next to that location is an IMATA village. They don't speak Spanish, most of them.

The people I talked to didn't even speak Spanish. And the ones, through my translator, and the ones that did speak Spanish spoke broken Spanish mixed in with Aymada. Okay, Aymada is the language up there. And so these are natives, native people. And I asked the native people about Amarumuuru. And they laughed, oh, that's not what it's called. It's not called Amadu Moodu. Okay.

They have a different name. I can't remember it. They have a different name. I said, what is it? It's a gateway. Where does it go? Nobody knows. Another dimension or something. I don't remember. I don't think they said dimension. The I'm out of people. I don't think they think they think like that. But another world or something. Okay. And then they begin to relate to you stories of their ancestors or their great grandparents or their grandparents or their uncle or whatever who saw something either go in or come out. And in one case, I was told by this. I might. This old IMAida lady dressed in all of her native garb and everything. She said, yeah, there's a story of a young man that was knocking on it or something. I don't remember the details. And he went into it and he couldn't get out. And he was banging on the other side. And I forget, somehow he came out and he would never speak about it. He was messed up after that or something.

Okay. So the Iamata people have their own legends. Why am I telling you this? Because the IMATA people, again, they do not call it Amadumuru. there are all these, there's a whole mythology built up around this place about an Inca priest Amaru who went there and the Inca had a silver disc and you put the silver disc into this, into this round indentation in the middle of the of this carving. And when you put the disc in, it opens up a gateway and you can go to Lemuria or Atlantis.

It's this whole mythology. Do you know who created that mythology? not the Ayamata people. They laugh when you tell them that. Who created it? A tour guide created it. And he's notorious over there. Everybody knows who he is.

And all the locals laugh at this guy and laugh at all the gringos who believe the story. And they said he created the story to make Amad Umudu into a tourist attraction so he and his buddies can make money. And so they created this whole mythology. And all these Americans go there. that this mythology is like some ancient IMATA or Quechua legend. It's not. It's literally fabricated for new agey gringos. And they come and they stick their head in the indentation and they got all the shamans around them with the, what do you call those bowls where they run the metal thing around? It makes like music or whatever. That's what they were doing when I got

there. These gringoes were there and all these shamans around doing the bowls. It sounded pretty cool. And I'm walking up, me and my team, a couple guys, we got, we got freaking tents and stuff. And people are like, what are you doing? Oh, we're going to camp in front of this. What? Like, what? Do you know what this is? It's like, no, that's why I'm going to camp in front of it.

I mean, I know what you say it is. And there are Amata people who were with us up there. So we had a group of Maata guys that came from the village just to check out what we were doing. An old guy and some young guys, we were hanging out with them. We made food with them. It was really fun, actually. and they spoke broken Spanish and some of them spoke good Spanish and it was a really fun time with these guys and they just they just couldn't believe like that we're we're going to camp here like you're going to set up a tent right here yeah

what's the problem and they're all like kind of nervously laughing and then it was getting like 730 you know in the evening sun's going down and they're all like we're out of here see ya like well whoa whoa where you going you know we were eating and stuff oh no no we're not going here at night time like why weird stuff happens here at night time we're not staying here you guys are crazy that's what they told us that's what we're here like nobody nobody camps in front of this place but uh i did and i'll tell you what that night we got blasted with a massive storm and a hail storm and like lightning crashing all around us and the next day it was like a foot of hail on the ground and uh it was crazy and and we heard about on the radio on the way back to puno a freak hail storm that broke out over this iata village

where we were camped right and only right there was like localized it was freaking crazy i mean it was nuts that night i thought we were going to get struck by lightning and get toasted up there but uh we were sleeping in this tent we were basically laying in water all night it was uh it was just there wasn't a foot. There wasn't a foot of hail. That was an exaggeration. Let me be accurate. There's a couple inches of hail on the ground when we woke up in the morning. In fact, our vehicle got stuck into mud because it was like raining and hailing and it was crazy. Anyway, that was a total divergence from what we were talking about, a digression. Just to demonstrate to you guys, just so you know, when you hear stuff about Lemuria and Atlantis, know that a lot

of this stuff is literally fabricated out of thin air. And Amadu Mutu, and maybe some people listen to me have been there. Amadu Moodu, the whole legend around Amadomu and the name was created by this tour guide who pretends he's a shaman in Puno and he did it to make money on gringoes. Yeah, yeah. Okay, that's where Amadu came from. But the Iamata people do have legends about that place and they do believe it's a gate. So I just said that to demonstrate that, you know, it's difficult to parse reality, you know, unless you get. That's every rabbit hole on our show.

I mean, every day it feels like people are either sending us messages and comments about it. It seems like there's some truth and then there's all these fake ones around it, right? And everyone gets sort of lost in their own little rabbit hole. But whatever you want to go down, there's a lot of this. It's like they take advantage of people who are looking and seeking and trying to figure it out. And then they take advantage of them. True. And why do you think, Tim, there are stories of people being healed?

It's not the first time we've heard it on our show. And, you know, heard a lot. You mean by the Bita Coaches? Yeah. Okay. Because they have advanced technology. And there's, and by the way, there's a location between Paracas and Lima, those who are familiar with maybe some people are familiar, Paracas,

that area where those elongated skulls, the most pronounced elongated skulls come from. I did extensive research at Paracas, and Elie Marceulu was down there with me, and Chase Kletzky, and Gary Haven, Jamie Walden, had a whole crew down there, and we were doing a bunch of stuff. That's a whole, that's a story for another day. That should be our next story time with Timothy Albrino, is our Paracas experience. We pretty much got kicked out of there by the Ica Mob.

but and we were looking for treasure and that's a whole other story. Yeah, we got to put a pin in that one. We got to do that one. Okay. Saving it for Costa Rica. That's got UFOs in it. It's a Costa Rica story.

Join us. So that's a Costa Rica story. February. 24. Come on down. February is two through fourth. That's right. 2024.

Yeah, we can, we can get into the nitty gritty of these stories. But so between Paracas and Lima, there's, that area is lots of UFO activity. If you talk to the locals, they've all seen the saucers. The saucers come up out of the ocean. They go over into the mountains. And sometimes they land and people get out of them. And in that area, as I said, it's almost always the tall, blonde-haired, or golden-blonde, fair-skinned, clear-eyed, Nordic. Those are the ones who I denominate the elder race, as you guys are well aware.

So I believe that that is an angelic race. Are they good guys? Are they bad guys? Are they a mix? Yes. I don't know. I have no idea, but I would suspect that you've got a mix of things going on there. But I would suspect, and let me be definitive about this. I know this is the question that's just pulsating in people's brains. They want to hear me reiterate this. I believe that the dragon and his angels, these insurrectionary sons of God, these apostate sons of God, this angelic race, that they are inhabiting the interior of the earth, not some hellish environment with fire and brimstone and people screaming. No, they've got bases. Who said that? Who said dumbs? I did.

Shinkana Dums. Shinkana Dums. Dump state, baby. They've got their own dumb state. They've got their own dumb state under the Andes, under the Himalayas, under the mountains in Antarctica. I am convinced that these guys have a massive. massive base under the Andes, massive. And I think they built the chinkana, by the way, the shinkana, the large, the greater shinkana.

So, Tim, do this for us here then. So, I mean, because we've got a million rabbit holes. It could be five episodes, I imagine. Put a bow on this for us. So we started with the Spanish conquest and a history lesson on the Incas and this tunnel. And then we went through the tunnel and this purported treasure. And it was the sequestering of this Inca treasure. and then the discovery of the tunnel

and then we ended up with this veneration of the Viracocha's, right? And so, and then we're now with the elder race and the, so can you brought us the synopsis of this and connect all the dots

and wrap this up? Because I think it's important because we've gone a long way here. There's so much going on here. We have pantheons of gods. We have a Vera Cochae figure who is a creator god, and there's a flood and there's progeny,

there's destruction of the giants who, according to the natives, built the megaliths. And then you have, it sounds to me a lot of like, this Viricocha is like Saturn. You have this replacement of Yahweh with this, the serpent,

the dragon, this, you know, pantheon. And it sounds a lot like the apostat, as you would say, the apostat, sons of God,

those rebellious angels. And then it comes. connection to this place, right? Because there is the mythology and the lore and the megalis and the evidence. But I don't want to do this for you because I think there's so much brilliance in this lesson. And I want you to tie it up in a way that you can. Well, I just took all the clothes out of the drawers and threw them all over the ground. Now you want me to fold them up and put them away. Well, relatively speaking, maybe throw them in a duffel bag. Let me just throw them all in duffel bag, but just, you know, orderly. Well, let me, let me put me. Let me

point out that and your listeners have probably connected these dots already that the Vita Cochas in the Andes are equivalent to the to Ketsaquado

in Central America and his cohort and his consort who where did they go when they departed they departed over the sea right so those are

those are the Vita Cochas of the let's say of the Aztec the Maya and certainly the Aztec those are the equivalent. It's the same people. It's the same thing. It's the same tradition. It's the same

mythology, but it's cast in the cultural context of the Aztec as opposed to the Inca. In regard to wrapping all this up in a neat bow, I'm not sure I can. I would say that my opinion here is that I don't know. When you ask me about

the Bita Cocha's appearing in the Andes in the time of chaos after a great cataclysm, and they went through the village's teaching. And in every case what they're teaching is, it's messianic, is reminiscent of Christ actually, what they're teaching, the loved one another to treat each other amicably and so forth. And he's healing the sick and giving, literally, they say, giving sight to the, restoring sight to the blind. Okay. It's very messianic. Is it possible? Now, the Mormons, by the way, believe that it was very, they're very

Mormon. Well, the Mormons believe that this legend is referring to Jesus, that Jesus appeared to the Indians. Yes, that's the LDS. That's possible. Hey, that's possible. That is possible. Now, I'm not saying that Jesus is living under the Andes, flying around flying saucer. No, no, I'm not saying that. I'm saying that that would be a different group, but they would look very, very much like Christ. They would look Christ-like in terms of their appearance, bearded men, and so forth. But I don't know. My answer is, I have no idea. Okay, I have no idea. Graham Hancock believes that these are the survivors, these were the survivors of the civilization that was destroyed in the cataclysm, specifically the Younger Dries Impact event,

that these were the survivors of Atlantis and the other high civilizations and that they were going around, and this is the Osirian myth, by the way, going around civilizing people. Now, are we talking about what I call the exiles of Atlantis? I came up with this term to refer to potential survivors of the flood, either human survivors, or we're talking about maybe some members of the elder race or something, somebody going around, or don't discount the possibility that these are, in fact, angelic being sent by God to help the human race civilize and recover from the flood or whatever. All options are on the table. And people like to come in and say, no, it's.

this or no, it's that exactly. And it's like, no, nobody really knows. And why shouldn't all options be available? Everything doesn't have to always be the bad guys. They're not in control. They're not the ones who are in control, okay? God is in control, the kingdom of heaven and the king of heaven. Make no mistake about it. He is in control, and he's operating in the earth just as much, if not more than the bad guys. And so he's got his emissaries and his agents out there doing on mission for the kingdom of heaven. Make no mistake about it.

I would add in that like, if we look at the Muslim world right now, there are more conversions, the more conversion stories about people having Jesus appear to him in a dream or a vision and convert them. These are, I mean, it is wildfire. These are

commonplace. And so when people talk about like the idea that this is always the thing right, like if God, there's this argument, right? Like, well, if God really cared about, what about the, you know, the natives in Papua New Guinea, you know, they never hear the gospel. And it's like, man, God is, God is, God is converting people in dreams. You know, there's another story. I'm not going to say, I'm not going to talk about it. This is a Costa Rica story. Okay. This is a jungle story about natives who

were visited by Christ, who I know personally. That's a Costa Rica story. And I can't wait to hear it, but I mean, I, we limit a limitless God when we say that like, and, I think it's a two sides of the same coin, Tim. This is another conversation for another day, but I think there's that. We limit a limitless God saying then God, why wouldn't he, if he desires all to come to him?

One, and two, it's also a drive for us for evangelism. If we care enough about people hearing the gospel and I'm worried about people not hearing it, then that should be a drive in your own heart to be like, what are we doing to spread the gospel to the ends of the earth? I think it's a two-sided coin. But when we talk about ancient times,

I like your argument in some ways. I mean, we do accredit a lot to the darkness saying, well, this is, you know, this is the, very well could be the, some of the entities of the Deuteronry 32 sort of worldview where you have these, these Elohim over the nations, right, who then could get corrupted because they get worshipped, and then you have these deities, right, and this pantheon of gods, this is, this is everywhere on the planet. I like the idea, too, that, like, that maybe perhaps, The good guys are also out there working. And I like that because...

It's hard. It is hard. Because they don't have it. It's not in the Bible. So they... Sure. Well, it is. Well, the interest are those who are with us. I love the idea.

Those who are with us and those who are against us. And that means more numerous. And the agents of the kingdom are operating in the earth for sure. And the kingdom of heaven is advancing. And maybe even to a greater extent in terms of traversing the skies. let's say, on mission from the kingdom of heaven doing what? I don't know. I have no idea.

But everything is not evil, okay? Let me throw something at you. I don't know who the Vita coaches are. I don't know what to make of that legend exactly. Obviously, it smacks of the book of Enoch and Genesis Six affair, obviously. But let me throw a wild card in here. And it looks messianic. It looks like maybe did Jesus appear to the Indians?

You know what? That'd be great if that was the case. But what about Melchizedic? What about the order, the priesthood of Melchizedek? I like this. Melchizedek, this mysterious character who has no beginning of days or whatever that means. What is the priest king? And remember, he's around after the flood.

You know, Abraham encounters him. And we get this inclination that this guy's really old. Maybe not. Maybe there's some ways to interpret this story. interpret this figure. Maybe it doesn't mean exactly in the Hebrew or the Aramaic exactly that he's really old. Maybe it means something else. I don't know I haven't done any research into it. But it's just a wildcard thought. What if there's an order of Melchizedek in the earth? And part of their mission was to help civilization restart after the flood. Civilization is not evil. Civilization

comes from the kingdom of heaven. Civilization itself is inherited. We inherited it from the civilization that predates us, namely the kingdom of heaven. It's not evil. So like the idea that beings would be going around and teaching and civilizing mankind. It's not just the bad guys who teach mankind. Not just the bad guys. It's the good guys who teach mankind also. In fact, there's traditions, and these are extra-biblical traditions, but there's extra-biblical traditions that talk about the angels helping Noah build the ark. There's extra biblical traditions about angels helping human beings do things. And indeed, they do help.

They busted Peter out of jail, right? So, I mean, you point this out to him. Yeah, that's how the, that's how the Noah movie went, the Russell Crow version, right? The, the watchers were trying to. Oh, yeah, the rock guys. Stupid rock guys. Well, they were, he was more of an artist. They were, they were angels encrusted in the earth because they had sin, right?

So they were trying to put that together. They were trying to be redeemed so they helped Noah build the arc. I think it's just an, it's an artistic version of it. But, but, you know, I was thinking about this, Tim, just maybe I can put a bow on this. You go to the, like, our first episodes, you said, I remember, said I was going to the jungle because I had a burning desire to have an encounter with God. And you go to these places with your friend and you hear these priests telling you stories of giants in the woods.

And it alters your life. I mean, if you don't have these experiences, You don't read the Bible the same. You don't go on these journeys around the world. I mean, you did have an encounter with God. I mean, you literally told you what your life is going to be like. Like, you're going to have these experiences. That's true.

That was in the jungle. That wasn't an Okai. But I did have a precursor encounter in Okai. That was really weird. That's for another day, or for Costa Rica. So remind me of that. There's a story related to Okaii because we went up into the cloud forest. And that was interesting.

And so, and that was sort of the precursor to what you just said. That event set me on the path to where I ended up deep in the Amazon. And I had this very interesting encounter deep in the Amazon. But this set me on the path for that. This was like the beginning of that up in Okai. So it's all very interesting. And there's a lot more stories. There's a lot more things I can say about the path of Beita Kocha, Thaubanku, Machu Picchu.

A lot more I could say about these, the legends regarding the beat of coaches the flying saucers and counters people have. It's just, and you know what? You'd never really find much of this out unless you spent time with the Ketua and the Ayamata peoples. Because, again, the younger people, the people who just live in the cities, they don't know any, they don't know this. These are the old legends. And I love getting into remote areas. And the first thing I love to do is to seek out some old timers to sit around with, smoke some Apachos.

Which, by the way, is not weed. It's just really crappy tobacco. and shoot the breeze and talk about weird stuff. Talk about blurry stuff with old-timers in the Andes. That's what I like doing. That's what I liked doing. And just to reiterate, you know, you want to put a bow on this, come to Costa Rica. There's the bow.

There you go. And I love it. I was going to say real quick, though, I think we get a lot of messages specifically after your episodes. A lot of people email us. And I often tell people, I'm like, you know, it's easy to sit in a, in a, and a, you know, it's easy to sit in an office your whole life and read books. But what I appreciate you about you, Tim, is you've been to these places and you've talked to these people. And that really shapes how you read the Bible and how you understand these biblical stories. Because you have to travel the

world sometimes in order and be in some of these places and have these experiences for some of these biblical stories to make sense in a different way. And some people are so judgmental. They think, oh, well, you know, it's just weird theology and stuff. And it's like, well, I mean, the same thing happened to me when I was in, when I was a musician, I started traveling and being in all these places. You know, I got to go to 15 countries or so. It can't, it changes you because you're there. You're in a place. You see this firsthand. And it's not like, oh, let's just sit around and in church service every Sunday and talk theology. But, you know, some of these pastors are so, they're so close-minded to some of these topics. And on our show, a lot of people are, they push back

because it just, like you said at our conference, your paradigm is, is so rigid when it's forced to expand, it breaks. And I just like our episodes with you because you bring that firsthand experience that, you know, I haven't been able to travel some of these places more like major first world countries.

I haven't got to the third, I haven't got out in the middle of nowhere and got, I mean, I'm sure it just was wild and weird. In two months, in two months. In two months you will be with me in some of these places, though. We're going. This is good because this is a primer for you guys. I mean, when we go up there to Kusko and you're going to see the Ketra people,

you'll see, you know, maybe this is kind of giving me an idea. Maybe I'll grab some of these Ketra people up there who know the Ketua history of Saxiwaman and we'll get the Ketua history of Saxiwaman on the record or something like that up there, which is totally different than the mainstream archaeological stories. So, but it all proves the biblical narrative. It all, it's all encouraged your faith, giving you more trust in Christ and not less. Look, look, wherever I go, whatever I do, whatever I encounter, at the core of who I am, is I am a follower of Christ. I believe in the gospel of Christ.

I believe in the death, the burial, and the bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ. I believe he is the king of heaven, the savior of mankind, the redeeming. or the kinsman redeemer of the human race, that never changes. Nothing ever alters that. I don't care. It doesn't matter to me who the beta coaches are. It's not going to change the gospel. It's, I just, whatever reality is, it is.

I don't have to try and take things and smash them into like a box. I don't have a nephaline box in which everything that I encounter has to fit into a nephaline box. Everything's got to be a nephaline. No, I have a big question mark. I only, I've only been alive for 40 years. and only investigating, deeply investigating stuff for 15, 20 of those years in a very short lifespan, even if I live 100 years, it's a very, very, very short period of time to be alive on planet Earth.

And we're confronted with the enormity of the universe, let alone the Earth itself and these ancient things that have been going on long before we showed up. So to come in and think, oh, I've got this box that I've created and all these things are going to fit into my box. that is a mind that is not going to be very enlightened because everything is going to be pushed into a box. And nothing is going to ever change my allegiance to the king of heaven or my faith in the gospel of Christ because it is the foundation for everything. And but at the same time, I don't have neat boxes. Yeah.

You know, I've got my own theological perspectives, as people know, the elder race and all this kind of stuff I talk about all the time. I'm, but I got a big box sitting over here on my desk with the, you know, metaphorically speaking. And it's just a big question mark. It's empty. And it's big. And it's like there's all, there's more I don't know than I do. There's, and I don't care who you are. I don't care if you're Tom Horn, if you're L.A. Marston.

If you're Steve Quill, if you're Chuck Missler, if you're Michael Heiser, there's way more that you don't know than you do. Way more. What you know is infinitesimal. What you know about anything, about anything. What we know is infinitesimal. Yeah. So there's way more complexity than we can even wrap our heads around. You know what?

I embrace a complexity. I was like even less than that infinitesimal if you host, boy, your creatures. So I'll just throw it out there. I have to show you guys. Also, before we go, I bought this the other day. I thought you would appreciate it. You see what it says? This is an official Forest Service Cup.

I like to buy Forest Service gear here, Montana, because it supports the Forest Service, you know, the State Parks and stuff. And, or specifically the Forest Service. And I got, I buy T-shirts, Forest Service. So I saw this cup and I thought, I got to get this. So you see what it says? Uh-uh. I see if SAS goes on there.

Is it? That's an official Forest Service. That's amazing. Montana, Forest. Hannah Forest Service Sasquatch Department. I love it. The quiet thing out loud, Tim. Well, just, I love it because everything you're saying reminds me of like when I started listening to Sasquatch stories and you hear enough of them and eventually it blows out that box.

You know, Bigfoot does so many weird things and there's so much weird stuff and so many of these science guys, they just can't. It's like they can get into the Sasquatch topic, but then they're stuck there. and they just rail against anybody who goes outside of that box. And it's like, well, if you host a show like this and you hear enough of these stories about this creature, eventually... Yeah, you're going to encounter weird unexplainable things. It just has to grow. And I think every... I think we try to create a place here on blurry creatures where people can come in and tell us their weird stuff.

And Luke, I don't push back a lot. And that's just kind of what we do. And some people get... I can tell you one box I don't have. I don't have a box that says supernatural. And I'll tell you why, real quick, because I believe there's one truly supernatural being inside of created order, and that is the Son of God, through whom, by whom, and for whom all things were created, and in whom all things consist. That is the supernatural being. Everything else in created order obeys the laws of nature, the laws that are put into place. And so outside of the Son of God himself, who can walk on water, who can make eyeballs grow in the Sockets who can calm the storm outside of that. By the way, those are all indications of who he is.

He is the maker. He manipulates matter and energy however he wants. Outside of him, everything else has to operate within the laws of nature. And so that's why I think that, you know, at some point, technology becomes indistinguishable from magic and or you might say indistinguishable from supernatural. So I'm not ever satisfied with a. supernatural explanation. That's just a big fat question mark for me. Like, okay, supernatural doesn't really mean anything to me. What is really going on? And I may not ever find out. But like I said,

I just want to say that at the end here, just so that people can understand that there's a level of complexity to create an order and to the beings that reside within it, that I think you're never going to understand it, but you can embrace it. You can embrace the complexity. Now, I'm not talking about losing faith in Christ. We've already established it. that's not the case. I'm just talking about embracing the, embrace the weird, embrace the complexity. Yeah. And that's what's really cool about your guys' show. You guys embrace the weird and you embrace the complexity. And you guys have dueling opinions on your shows that if you were to take all of the different opinions and theological positioning and so forth, then you were to like put them on a

table, you would just have a big contradiction. But I think that's really cool because you're not telling people what to think. You're just giving them a buffet and a spoon. And I think that that's really very unique about you guys. And I commend you for that. And we're going to have a lot of fun in Peru and then coach, well, thanks. I like it. Just like the Veracochers,

my have always been here, right? Is that kind of what you were saying in this episode? They were always here. They never left. They just went under the mountain. The weird has always been here. Right, Luke? It's always been here.

Never left. There is no supernatural moments. It's always been, it's all weird and complex. Well, it's everything. I mean, something is supernatural until it has an explanation. You know, then it ceases to be super and is only natural, right? So, and I'm not saying that there's a rigid scientific explanation for everything. Well, there is, but not necessarily in the way we think.

No, I like it. It gets, it helps people believe, you know? There's, you know, technologies that are indistinguishable from magic from our point of view. So I'm getting, I'm just, I'm going off and do another show here. I'm just rambling into another show. We're going to put a bow on this completely. We keep trying. This is Christmas.

There's a lot of presents under this tree. We keep putting bows on things and they're not, they're not taken. Listen, we have to go back to the great philosopher of this generation, which is the band Pall of Mud, said, everything's so blurry and everyone's so fake. And you know what? And here we are, you know? So, listen to him, I love it. I'm excited about Costa Rica.

I love these conversations because I think it's. These things are all worth thinking about. And I think it all fits. If we pull out and look at a macro view of, you know, as you talk about of the gospel and then of the Bible and the Old Testament and understanding the history of our earth and our place in the story and also how that fits up in the greater story, these are things to think about and understand and contextualize. And we don't have all the answers, but these are pieces of the puzzle.

And I think it's important. And one thing I wanted to say, too, I think it's very interesting what you said is that if we think about the kingdom of heaven, we know that God is the author of civilization. There are roads and buildings and walls and thrones. And it is God's idea. And so the idea that Megalus and these things may have been built by rebellious angels and the progeny of rebellious angels, these are still counterfeits of ultimately the creator and his, in his architecture, right? And I love to remember that all good things do come from the king. That's right. All good things.

And this is all about the kingdom. So, man. Yeah, maybe as one of you said, I forget which one of you said at your conference, maybe there's megaliths in heaven. I was like, ding, that's a great idea. That's like that's a great idea. I think that would be so cool. Like massive, incredible megalithic construction.

So there's another show. Yeah, that is. Yeah. Well, there's golden streets. We know. So there's weird tunnels under these pyramids and all kinds of weird stuff. I mean, it's going to be exciting. And I think that's the thing.

It's like creation is vast and weird. And there's a billion different things that we do know that exist, weird creatures and insects and all the things we've talked about. But so there's got to be billions of things that we don't know exist. And it's probably wild and weird. And how much more fun is that? I think this reality that we're describing, which is more and more real to our listeners and us is exciting.

And it's, why would you go back to a stale, you know, black and white version of reality, especially theology, if all this stuff is right there for us to unpack and unfold, it just makes the gospel more exciting. It's not sensationalized. It's just more real, you know. I think it makes people's faith grow. A lot of people get real of, like, oh, this is dangerous. I'm like, people have only been encouraged.

That's all we get. That's all the emails we get. It's people just more encouraged by what they hear. So, Tim, this is what we're going to try to replicate in Costa Rica. We always have fun sitting down and talking to you. Thanks again for coming on our show. Yeah, buddy. You get the weird out.

We ask some dumb questions and it seems to be a good recipe. I don't know. Yeah. We have a lot of fun together. And, you know, and that's part of the, again, I'm going to make one last comment on the Costa Rica. That's one of the things that I love is being able to talk like this to a group of people and then hanging out afterwards and sort of, you know, further discussion, hearing from people. That's one thing we want to do with this event in Costa Rica.

we want to have a lot of time where people are talking and asking questions and also not just asking question but also people can can expound on their ideas and stuff and it's and that that's um i think uh is uh is kind of the kind of experience that we we want to join forces here you guys and me and in an exotic fun place and and just sort of this is kind of an experiment so yeah well there's a lot there's a lot more obviously in this episode we could have went out on a bunch of rabbit trails. So Tim, we'll save some, we'll put some of the can. That's right.

Thanks, Tim. All right, gentlemen. Good to see you. My pleasure. As always, it's, it's, uh, it's been fun. Yeah, that is. Stay blurry.