Blurry Creatures - EP: 182 Aliens Have Bodies with Tim Alberino

Episode Date: August 3, 2023

Last week, in a historic moment, three former military officials told Congress that they believe the government knows much more about UFOs/UAPs than it has publicly revealed. Whistleblower testimony in a Congressional House Oversight hearing revealed startling testimony alleging factions of the government, military contractors, and agencies are in possession of "non-human" biologics. David Grusch, a former U.S. intelligence official, told the congressional panel he is "absolutely" certain the U.S. government is in possession of non-human technology and biologics and has had some of this material for decades. To unwrap what happened on this day of testimony, and try to make sense of the entire situation, we welcome back author and explorer Tim Alberino. Tim walks us through the actual happenings in the Congressional Oversight subcommittee, the whistleblower testimony, and the implications of the testimonies if true. He also gives his personal take on the breaking news and how he believes Christians in particular should think about, process, and contextualize these shocking whistleblower revelations.  support the show! blurrycreatures.com/members Guest: timothyalberino.com Intro song: Dreamkid83 contact: [e-mail] blurrycreatures.com Socials instagram.com/blurrycreatures facebook.com/blurrycreatures twitter.com/blurrycreatures Music Kyle Monroe: tinytaperoom.com Aaron Green: https://www.instagram.com/aaronkgreen/ Mastering: ironwingstudios.com Outro Song: TimeCop1983: timecop1983.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Luke's so often, people email us, and they have this story. They're out in their woods, and they're looking in the bushes, and they go, what's that? And when you are pouring your dog food and your dog's bowl, that's the last thing you want to say. What is that? What is this stuff coming out of this bag? You know, I don't think a lot of us think about maybe what we feed our dogs, and that's why we partner with rough greens.

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These craft are manufactured somewhere. They're manufactured. They're fabricated. They're not just poofed into existence by a genie. They're fabricated. We know this to be true. This is knowledge that has been applied in such. a way that technology has been derived from it and that technology is in our hands.

We are inside of these things trying to fly them around. We have multiple versions of them. And so I'm trying to help people. And again, I'm not saying my perspectives, I have the right perspectives and everybody else doesn't. No, I'm just trying to help people bridge the gap between thinking about disembodied spirits and dealing with the data set. And this is where I'm seeing all the confusion. And so I think we have to concede. The history of our earth is so different from what we can imagine. The Smithsonian, that if they found out about a large skeleton somewhere, was to go get it.

I'm going to assume at least one person is right. Because if one person's right, it bust the paradigm. It all goes back to the fallen chair. And the problem with the modern day church, they have a very truncated view of the supernatural. This backdrop is just pregnant with all kinds of meaning associated with this Mount Hermann event. And this guy defects from the kingdom. That's a big deal. I mean, I think it's hard for a lot of Christians specifically right now. I think Luke and I, we've been lucky because we've been, you know, headlong in the space for several years.

were saying and I think a lot of people they just like I see a lot of the comments and it seems like a reactionary blanket statements aliens are xyz this and that it's all and it's just like I think that a lot of people are afraid they just haven't looked into it they haven't really looked at the data and they're having just these sort of reactions because Christians are probably hitting them up in in their comments like what's going on is that no it's funny I was uh I was texting with our with our mutual friend, Kevin, you know, King Cat, actually this morning and last night, and he was just saying that his DMs have filled up with people asking questions, not, and looking for our answers, right?

And I think that's, like Nate said, I think we're fortunate, you know, Tim, you, you called a lot of these shots and what was going to happen. And, you know, we've been delving into this now and for a couple of years, but just to really have, to feel like you have a good idea this was coming and a good idea that of how to how to put this inside of your paradigm. And I think there's a lot of people that are struggling right now, especially really especially in the Christian space. So I know we probably have started the show, but one of the things I want to do because this was a monumental week. And because we've talked to, you know, the last time there was a congressional hearing on this, we got together to kind of recap what was going on and discuss that. Last time, last time was actually just in the aftermath of David Grush's

testimony on News Nation. So Congress had not yet gotten involved. This is, this is part two of that conversation because this is the next level. This is the next step in this ongoing saga of David Grush, the whistleblower, and others. So this is the natural progression. And it is, uh, is, It's very significant that this is indeed the progression, that it went from an interview on a relatively small media platform. Unregulated outlet. Right. And they're the ones who are covering this appropriately.

Everybody else is dropping the ball, I think intentionally. And when I say everybody else, of course, I'm referring to the media companies. And so this is the natural progression. It goes from a compelling interview with astounding allegations. and rather than it just being dropped, which would have happened 10 years ago, a decade ago, it's moved to the next level, which is a hearing at Congress. So that's what happened. And then there's other levels above this that are likely going to happen.

So this is quite significant. And as I said, it's really part two of that conversation. And it's, you know, we're going to have to rehash some things. But there's new information, I think, or at least an elaboration of old information, that crystallizes where we are and where we might be headed in regard to the alien presence on planet Earth. This isn't the government narrative, right? This is whistleblower is coming out and bringing this to our attention.

And it's not, you know, it's not like, I think a lot of people are just like, oh, I don't trust the government. I'm like, yeah, as you shouldn't probably, but are you paying attention at all? This isn't the government narrative. Yeah, that's, and I think that's what I'm seeing the most, Tim. And I think what's most frustrating is that, you know, yeah, rightly so, we don't, we don't trust any of the narratives come from the government. This isn't a government narrative. In fact, they aren't, they aren't confirming.

They're not making statements on this. They're not, this is not their message. These are a couple, if you want to call them patriots, these are whistleblowers that have legal protections that have come forward to report on what's actually happening. This is not, it feels like people that want to think that the American people are deserving to hear what's going on behind. the scenes and you know there's a hearing now because they are releasing this information and they have the protections. I think we talked about this in the last one. It was, you know, sort of the Ed Snowden situation. Since that occurrence and the whistle blowing the NSA, there are now in the last few years been laws and processes implemented that protect people to come out and to blow the whistle

on our own government. And that's what I think people are missing. This is what they're missing here, right this isn't this isn't the pentagon or the doj and people saying this is like a this is a this is a big you know look at this shiny thing over here because of the hunter biden stuff that's not this isn't the government orchestrating this in fact if anything the hunter biden things a distraction from this right this is this is precisely antithetical to the government narrative when i say this of course i'm referring to david grush's testimony in the testament with the other gentleman but especially grush's testimony We know that's true because the government narrative is the one that's coming from NASA, which we discussed last time NASA has said, you know, they're conducting their own UAP investigation,

which nobody cares about. But NASA has come out and said that recently that we don't have any evidence of, in fact, the guy said that he wanted to declare it loud and proud for some reason he had to say it in that way. We don't have any evidence at all suggesting that. basic, let's just paraphrase what he's saying, that UAPs are real and have anything to do with non-human entities or extraterrestrials. That's really what he's saying. There's the government narrative. And then you have the Pentagon who absolutely disavowed everything that Grush has said. And just recently today, you have the director of AARO, the official office at the Pentagon for studying

UAP. He wrote a letter today and basically denied the accusations by Grush. And I think he, I think he lied in that letter. So there's the, there's the official government narrative. So if you want the official narrative, you can find it. It's everywhere. In fact, I want to get into some of the points that were made at this hearing that I think are going over people's head. But, but I want people to understand that after, during and after the hearing, I was pulling up Fox News. I was pulling up MSNBC. I was pulling up CNN. I was pulling up NBC News. They had little blurbs on it, but it wasn't headline news. What do you think was headline news on Fox News during the hearing? Take a guess. Hunter Biden? Hunter Biden. Okay, so what's distracting from what here? Hunter Biden was the news? So everybody's saying, oh, this is just a distraction. What do you mean it's a distraction? Were you watching the news? They just had little segments on it. How is it a distraction? If it's a distraction, it's a distraction, it's a really sucky distraction because the news these news agencies didn't get the memo. The memo they got was probably from the CIA which said don't make a big deal out of this. There's your official

narrative. So people got a problem who are saying this is a siap. They got a real problem. I've been, you know, I've been in a bit of a Twitter storm here recently. And I've been asking challenging people. Okay, it's a sciap. What specifically is the sci-yap? I probably asked a half a dozen people on Twitter. Nobody has given me an answer, not a coherent one. What specifically is the sci-op? And then another question that is very pertinent to this sci-up narrative. What specifically is Grush saying that isn't true?

What is he saying that's false? And the answer is nothing. And so how do we make sense of this? as some of your listeners may know, I just, I just conducted a interview with, I just conducted a conversation with Richard Dolan, and I'll wrap this up in a minute here, I just conducted a conversation with Richard Dolan on my YouTube channel. And my and Richard's analysis, and both of us drew the same, I was delighted to find that Richard Dolan had, had also drawn this same conclusion. We both concluded that what we're witnessing is a factional conflict, a

war, if you will, that's happening behind the scenes. And you've got different characters who are in this war. It's not like Democrats versus Republicans. It's not like Obama people versus Trump people. It's nothing like that. This transcends all of that. You have a mix of Republicans and Democrats, a mix of what I would consider good guys like George Knapp and bad guys who are all mixed in together who want transparency and some degree of disclosure on the alien presence. Now, just because there's an eclectic group of people and some of them are unsavory characters, let's say, does it mean that this is a si-up? I'm begging people. I am pleading with people to have a more high-resolution analysis to be more complex in your evaluation of these things. Don't just say it's a siop because the

Hunter Biden thing is going on at the same time. What could possibly, how could you possibly have of a news story of this gravity that isn't a distraction of whatever's going on, whatever happens to be going on at that present time, at that present moment in history. In other words, it would always, this kind of information is always going to distract because it is, in the words of man-count, I absolutely agree with man. I was discussing this with him the other day as well. This is the biggest story since the resurrection of Jesus Christ. I mean, and I really do believe that.

Now, am I going to say that this is disclosure? Well, technically disclosure is like a news briefing at the Pentagon or the president of the United States or the Pope of Rome coming out and saying, hey, we've been lying to you all this time aliens exist. That's technically disclosure. This is inadvertent disclosure, and it's not full disclosure, but this is the path of disclosure. And it's more of an admittance than a disclosure as,

as Richard Dolan pointed out in our conversation. And so I just wanted to air that grievance with you guys here right off the bat. Yeah, and I think we share that grievance because I think just doing this show, we get a lot of people on our channels saying the same thing. They're sort of implying that what is happening right now feels, like let's just look back at the whole COVID narrative. The whole world shut down. Now, if the whole world shut down because of this hearing, right, if there was a reaction on that level, if we were seeing the entire world rally behind this,

then I think we would probably have a different conversation right now. Why is all of a sudden the whole world interested? But like you're saying, people aren't interested, and the news is mostly silent about it. So it's garbage. It's just absolute garbage coverage of the most important announcement in the history of mankind. Sometimes it feels like when you get that phone bill, it's like the crash site. You can't read it. There's a bunch of numbers, random fees, vague language, stuff's blacked out. You're like, what am I actually paying for? I don't know about you, but I like keeping my money where I can see it. I like to be

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As the Krispy Chicken Sandwich from 7-Eleven, people always call me loud. And I'm like, yeah, I know. I'm crispy. Did you expect me to whisper? If you want quiet, go eat some soup and reflect. Like, I know I'm a handful. I'm bold, I'm juicy. throw some pickles and barbecue sauce on me and baby I'm a whole meal and with seven rewards I'm just $4. Quiet, no. Krispy, saucy and $4?

Very only at 7-11. Valley 36-22326 participating stores only while supplies lastly after full terms. Which makes you realize that the people that own the media companies have probably gotten a memo that we don't, we got to bury this, right?

Like let's bury. No question from the CIA. From the CIA. It's mockingbird. Let's bury this whole story. Yeah. So, I mean, we just saw it on every, you know, I think we're coming out of some of that fatigue, though. People are just used to whatever they're telling us is false. But it's a little bit boy cry wolf when there's actually a wolf. Exactly. That's right. We're asleep to. That's a great way to, that's a great way to view this. It's the boy who cried wolf. And so now nobody ever is going to believe anything that an institution says, which is, okay, look, the impulse to distrust anything out of the government or media is, good. I'm for that. I'm behind that. We just came through the pandemic. And that was the biggest, that was the biggest propaganda campaign I've ever seen in my entire life. Okay. I get it.

But at the same time, don't just make this wild assumption that everything any institution says is now wrong. That is, that is not logical. Everybody needs to try and reason about. about what they're hearing and seeing and to have a complex analysis based on reality. The word sci-up doesn't really explain anything, by the way. It doesn't. Now, if we were to say that the vaccine propaganda was a si-up, there's no question. We know it was. We have all the proof that was evident to everybody.

Everybody, anybody who said that that wasn't a si-op wasn't paying attention or was willfully blind. Obviously that was a sciap. Okay, that's a legitimate sciap that was perpetrated not just on the American people, but on the on the on the on the on the populace of planet earth. But that doesn't mean that every single thing coming down the pipe now is siop, siap, siap, siap, siap, siap, that's just not the way the world works. The world is complex. The intelligence communities are complex. There's white hats that are mixed in with the bad guys. Same thing in the military. There are people who are of all political stripes who want the American people to know inside of those institutions who want the American people to know more about UFOs in the alien presence.

And they have all kinds of different motives. Maybe some of their motives are bad. Okay, fine. But certainly not everyone has, let's say, evil intention. as it pertains to the disclosure of the alien presence. Some people are looking at it purely from a political standpoint and saying, hey, wait a minute, Congress has totally been bamboozled here, right? This ship needs to be righted immediately because the military industrial complex is running the country. The deep state, as I call it, the dumb state is running the country. In fact, the dumb state is a level beyond the deep state, as we've discussed,

on your program before. So let's pump the brakes with the sci-op crap. I mean, I'm getting so fatigued. Everything is a sci-op, except for flat earth, of course. That's real. So, you know, it's, of course, and as you guys will know, that was a joke. So I'm just, I'm getting fatigued. I think when you said that word, I'm getting fatigued.

Like, I just want to go to the jungle. Costa Rica and check out for a couple of years because people are losing their ability to reason and they're they're disconnecting from reality and they're just automatically disbelieving anything they see in here and then accusing people like me who say hold on guys this probably isn't a siam hold on i'm suddenly a shill i'm a free masonic shill uh i'm getting paid by the illuminati because i don't believe this is a siap and also because i don't believe that sage wall in Montana is artificially devised and also because I don't believe that the earth is flat. So therefore I'm a free Masonic shill.

I'm shilling for the devil, as has been said multiple times in comments. And look, people will say, chill out, dude, don't get so upset. Well, here's the thing. I've been talking about this and telling people that this was coming for a long time. And boom, here it is. Yeah. So it's not like I've changed my tune. I've been trying to help lay the groundwork for people to be able to incorporate these things into their paradigm without those paradigms busting.

As I've often said, if your paradigm isn't flexible, then it's going to break when it's forced to bend. And Tim, I think that's what's happening right now. I think it's what we're seeing, right? Like that's why there is this knee-jerk reaction that's happening and why these, it's visceral is that it's all fine. And Danny to talk about this stuff for, you know, since you've written your book and before, that and to have the discussion we've had on our show for the last years. But when you're confronted with things now happening, you know, in this whistleblower situations and somewhat in the news, right as we talked about, but absolutely happening within the walls of Congress. Now you have to,

now you have to, people are getting confronted with this. And I think that it was fine for people to have out here and put out here, you know, into orbit if you have you. And it's fun to think about, but like, you know, it's, you know, Tim's kind of talking about weird stuff. And now that weird stuff is knocking on your door saying, now, what do you think about it now? And I think that people are having a very hard time with it, you know, with it, like you're saying, with a busting, busting paradigms. And there's this often hostile visceral reaction to that that like this, like you said, there's these blanket statements that go out there. And I think you make a good case, that this is not the message, like I said, the message of the government. And in a lot of ways to me,

this feels a lot like the coverage that we, that we saw less than even than like the Epstein stuff. And we know that that was like a big no-no to touch because of all of the power, power people that were implicated in that. And then it was brushed away. And it, it's just a, if people would just open, just open their mind, but I just feel that, that in and of itself is something that's very, very hard for people that, to incorporate this. And so, you know, that's why I'm glad we have you and we've had these discussions already because we talked about the top of the show.

We're farther down the road in having a thought process and a, a, you know, a, a place, a place for discourse on this, you know, on our show, and you've been doing this in a lot of different outlets and different places. But I wanted to know, because a lot of people have caught snippets online, right? And, of course, that is the ultimate judge this whole thing

on 30 seconds or 10 seconds, right? And I was hoping maybe people who didn't get a chance to sit down and watch the entire thing. Would you mind giving us like a very quick overview recap of what happened and why it's so important and why we are seeing this visceral, reaction and a lot of times kind of nastiness in in places online, especially sadly in circles of, you know, of Christians. They're wrestling with this topic. But what, if you could,

if you could, if you could break down for our folks that are tuning in here, maybe didn't, maybe saw, maybe saw this 30 second Instagram and not, not the entire hearing. Yeah. And I'm going to calm down now. My, you're good, man. I've aired, I've aired, I've erred my grievances. All right. On Wednesday, July 26, we witnessed what, what, what I believe, was a truly historic event. The House Committee on Oversight and Accountability conducted a remarkable hearing on unidentified anomalous phenomena, implications on national security, public safety, and government transparency, during which members of the committee pose questions to three witnesses, Ryan Graves, David Fraver, and David Grush. Graves and Fravor were both

Air Force pilots who had personally encountered UFOs during training missions. and Grush is an official whistleblower from the intelligence community. Now, I've been saying, and I said with Richard on my YouTube channel during our conversation, that I watched it from beginning to end. The headline that I walked away with could be phrased in the following way. The alien presence is real and constitutes a national security threat. That's the headline. And again, I'm not here toot my horn, okay?

But I literally, I literally predicted that this is exactly the way that this was going to roll out, that we were going to be told that the alien presence is real and that it constitutes a national security threat. And that it would be true. That's a true statement. There's nothing deceptive about that analysis coming from Congress, because that was Congress's, that was the committee's analysis. That was it. Alien threat is real and constitutes a national security threat. That was the analysis.

And that is precisely what the three witnesses, David Fravor, David Grush, and Ryan Graves, were conveying to the committee. Now, there are five primary takeaways that I want to highlight. There's a lot of things said, and some of them were not nearly as astounding as other things. So let's focus on five primary takeaways from the hearing. Some of these takeaways, I am deriving from comments made by Grush that he could not expound on without going into a skiff with the congressman. And the skiff, S-C-I-F, is an acronym for sensitive compartmented information facility, which is a U.S. Department of Defense term for a secure room. And so the protocol is if the congressmen are cleared to, if they have the need to know and the right clearance to hear the information that that Grush wants to tell them in secret, basically

they go into a closet and he tells them a secret, then in that environment the congressman can be told the information and then they can make the determination whether or not it's safe to tell the American people. Okay, that's a skiff. And if you're watching the hearing, you heard this terminology over and over, skiff, skiff. And so many times, grush said, I can't provide that information in a public setting, but I'd be happy to do it in a skiff. Why did he say that? Because he'll put him in jail. He signed an NDA, a non-disclosure agreement. And that NDA has teeth. Okay, they can put the man in jail. So he's being very, very careful to protect himself. But he's not withholding the information. He's just saying, hey, I'll tell you that behind closed doors. All right? So some of this information I derived from what I believe he was hinting at. And I think people would agree with me. Okay, here we go. The five primary takeaways.

Number one, elements of the United States government and certain military contractors, he's a private contractors, have been recovering, crashed UFOs and their non-human occupants for decades and have been working to reverse engineer alien technology in secret. Okay, that's the big bombshell. And that is what Grush said on the News Nation interview. Okay. That's nothing new. But, but, but he said it under oath on Wednesday. He was not under oath in the interview. He could have said whatever he wanted without consequence. This time he was under oath, and he would have perjured himself had he lied. Okay. Number two, elements of our government and certain military contractors appear to have been in communication.

with at least one alien species. That's kind of new. And the way that Grush answered that question, I forget what your congressman asked him directly, are elements of our government in communication with non-human entities. And Grush almost said yes. He almost said yes, but he caught himself and he said, that's something that I'll have to talk to you about in a skiff.

Okay? If the answer was no, he would have said, not to my knowledge, but he didn't. So the answer is yes. Okay. Number three, again, these are the five primary takeaways. The crash retrieval and reverse engineering programs are financed through a misappropriation of funds directed to other projects. This quote unquote trade craft, as Gresh called it, is specifically designed to circumvent congressional oversight and maintain secrecy. Now that was stated emphatically.

So what this means is exactly what we've known and what I've said on your program before. It means that all of the government and private institutions, be they military or in the intelligence community, because the military, the Air Force intelligence and the CIA and the NSA and all these different intelligence, they all have their own UFO programs, okay? And then there might be like one big umbrella UFO program that they all sort of have their hands in. I don't know exactly how that works, but they certainly all have their own little thing going. All right. Even the FBI, it means that at least as it pertains to these special access programs, these black budget programs, they're getting, they're stealing the money.

Okay. They're misappropriating the money that was supposed to go that ostensibly was attached to other known programs. So to put it into, to give you an example, a military contractor said the government orders five new fighter jets. And the military contractor says, okay, each fighter jet is going to cost a billion dollars. When in reality, they only each cost $500 million. So they're purposely inflating the price so that they can take that extra money and allot it to these secret programs. That's illegal. That is treasonous to some extent because you are deliberately.

concealing this from Congress, i.e. the American people. And that is a breach of the contract with the American people called the Constitution of the United States. That's a breach. Okay. It's a, as I'm famous for saying on your show, that's a big deal. There he is. That's number three. Number four, people working inside of the special access programs related to UFOs have been harmed and even killed by one, or all of the following factors. And all of these were hinted at. That's why I say one or all. The exotic technology itself, so working on a reactor and something blows up or something like that, or crashing the craft when they're trying to fly it, okay? Private contractors, who, to put it really bluntly, murder people, okay?

The U.S. government, same thing. And when I say you have U.S. government, we could be talking about the military, we could be talking about the intelligence community, all of that. And then also by the aliens themselves. So Grush hinted that

there's various ways people have died some of them while working with the technology and some of them were murdered. That came out. That was wild. That was wild. It didn't come out that explicitly, but it came out.

And again, he's going to give that information in the skiff. And then number five, David Grush himself is being persecuted by hostile actors within the government, presumably the Pentagon and the intelligence community, and also by individuals working for certain military contractors who have directly threatened his life and the security of his

family. And he was very shaken up when he was talking about it. So, and therein lies, I think, the primary reason why Grush is coming forward with his testimony. I think he started to pop the lid on this can when he was working with AARO. He got too curious. He talked to too many people. He dug too deep. The reprisal came from the military contractors. The threats came. All the stuff that Bob Lazar went through. And he panicked and he said, I either just, they're going to kill me. They might kill me. So I either just risk that these guys are going to, I'm going to end up in the, in the bottom of some river in Washington, D.C. or I go to Congress. And because, as we mentioned earlier, because there's a pathway now for whistleblowers,

specifically in the UFO related to UFOs, because the pathway has been created in the last couple of years, he had this option available to him. And he did what I would do. He used it. And he went to Congress and he submitted his proof so that they would take him seriously. And he submitted to the Inspector General of the Intelligence Community, and he entered the other appropriate venues, and he went public for cover. Guess who else did that, except there was no official venue, he went public in the only manner he could. Bob Lazars. He did the same thing. He went to George Knapp. So, or rather, George Knapp went to him, and he was willing to speak about his experiences precisely because, and you know, and I know this to be a fact, because he wrote it in his book,

Dreamland, precisely because he feared for his life. And he was being, uh, personal. And he was being, uh, persecuted and it really really nasty tactics too so those are the five primary to my five primary takeaways i'm probably missing some incredible thing there was a bunch of other details that were amazing like uh one of the pilots i think it was Ryan graves was talking about an incident that happened at an air force base in which a a rectangle the size of a football field glowing red hovered over the base. I mean, just imagine that. A rectangle the size of a football field.

And so there was a bunch of UFO encounters that were discussed that were very, very intriguing, but weren't as important as those five primary takeaways that I just mentioned. And then one other thing, before I kick it back over to you guys, one other thing, Representative Birchette, who really was spearheading this, and Luna, Representative Luna, and also Matt Gates, they related a story. Gates told the story, but Burchett and Luna were involved in it as well. They went to a base because they were notified. They went to an Air Force Base because I believe it was an Air Force Base because they were notified

that there had been a UFO incident, a UAP incident. They went over there to get information, and they were. initially denied access to a skiff. Again, that they were denied access to that secure room to interview the people who had the encounter. And they were denied any information. And they had to argue and fight with the base commander before they were allowed, given permission, to interview one person, and they were shown a photo. And they were all very impacted by the photo they saw. They saw some sort of an advanced aerospace, non-human advanced aerospace vehicle. That's what they saw. All three of them saw it. And so that's all, everything I just said, some people have been

yawning about this saying, oh, nothing new. We've known this for decades. Of course, eophologists have known this for decades. But we're way beyond anywhere we've been in the past. This is not yawn, nothing new. This is explosive. This is nearly unprecedented. In some ways, it is unprecedented. And it should not, the impact of this and the import should not be taken for granted or should not be belittled. This is a historic moment. And again, I would say as sensational as it sounds, if you understand the implications of what's being said here, it is the biggest news story to break in the history of the human species since the resurrection of Christ. I just keep thinking of multiple episodes. I mean this, what you just dropped took to us as a podcast, probably 25, 30 episodes to really unpack.

We've had people who have experienced the grays, they've been abducted, they've seen the craft, and those are all different episodes. We've had a lot of military on the show that say that they had to sign all these, you know, these papers to not talk about what happened to them and their own UFO experiences. We've, we've interviewed probably half a dozen guys who signed things, said, they're not allowed to talk about it. So you can't really tell people who are skeptical, like right off the bat. You know, you can't say, here's why your thinking is sort of dumb because it takes a long time for you to realize that, like, all the things you're talking about, you can't throw

sciop at it, you can't throw Project Blue Beam at it, you can't say aliens or demons, you can't say all these things because... Doesn't fit the data. It doesn't fit the data, exactly. And it's not something that we can go over in one episode. And that's the hard part. It's like, it's almost like trust us. about this, but it's, you know, there's physical craft, there's physical bodies, there's,

there's a physicality to all of it. And, uh, it's hard. It's hard for me. It's hard for, it's hard for anyone to put their, wrap their mind around it, but, but it's like, it's like Heiser said on our show. It just takes one of these stories to, to kind of poke a hole in the paradigm. And I guarantee you, there are a lot of stories that poke the hole into the spiritual argument of all of this or, you know, that it's just one, Let me throw a wrench at you here. Throw a wrench at you. I love me from Michael Heiser.

Believe me, I've gleaned a lot of work. I've gleaned a lot from Heiser. Having said that, Heiser didn't take the physical reality of the phenomenon very seriously. And he had a different view. He would have categorized it in the, he would have placed it in the demon category,

generally speaking. I think he would have had a more complex analysis than that. So I think, I think there's a lot of people who are both Christians and non-Christians who have not taken this topic seriously, who are now groping for answers suddenly, suddenly groping for answers. Because as I said, the data doesn't fit the conclusions that are being drawn by a lot of people. And you guys have to understand. And I don't know if you understand this. I'm an outlier in this, let's call this community. Let's call it a community. It is a community. I don't know exactly what.

what to call it. With you guys, you can call it the blurry community, but beyond the scope of your podcast, you know, I don't know, the Nephilim community, I don't know what you would call it, the Genesis 6 community. What could we really say of this audience, of this community that differentiates them from just like the general mainstream Christian community? What is that factor that differentiates you, the listeners, and you guys as the podcasters and me as a researcher, what differentiates us from, say, the Baptist Church down the road, you know, from the general Christian populace? What is that thing that differentiates us? And I guess you can put your finger on Genesis 6 and say, we are a community of believers who are convinced that the Genesis 6 narrative pertains to the watchers and that it is referencing a story that is told else.

elsewhere in the extra-biblical text, namely the Book of Enoch, about this fantastical event that happens to be true, and then the whole watcher scenario with, as you referenced earlier, with copulating with human women and procreating giants and so forth. So that's certainly one thing. But at the same time, there are a lot of Christians who are more conventional, who probably do subscribe to that to some extent or would be open to that. So it's more than that and I'm trying to put I'm trying to put my finger on what exactly it is and I don't know why I've gotten myself in this in this difficulty here on your show because I've been contemplating this for a long time and I've never actually been able to come up with an answer but what I'm driving at here is that

I'm an outlier in this community that I'm trying to describe because the vast majority of this community would say and also many would assume because I'm seeing this all over the place on social media and comments on YouTube and everything, would assume that what I've been saying this whole time is that aliens are demons, even though I've spent so much time and energy trying to demonstrate that they're not and that there are better answers. Now, I am encouraged by the fact that there certainly are a lot of people who are thinking very deeply about this and are not reaching for the aliens are demon's trope. I am encouraged, and there's a lot of people out there who have much more sophisticated analysis than that. And a lot of people will say, no, they're not

demons, they're fallen angels. I can go with you there. And I've said that myself, to some extent, I can go with you there. That's a more complex analysis, and it's a more accurate analysis. I can go there. And that's where a lot of people in this community, they can go there as well. But I'm not so sure how many people have crossed over into the next, who have taken the next step in that analysis. And so everyone knows that I believe that the Bible presumes the existence of extraterrestriors, as I've said many times. The biblical narrative presumes the existence of extraterrestrials. Obviously, we're talking about angels and other entities, but let's be specific with angels. Angels, as you mentioned earlier, are inherently extraterrestrial. They're not from planet Earth.

That's it, okay? That is a fact that you cannot. you cannot circumvent that reality in the biblical narrative. It is what it is, and we have to deal with it. So there's that. But then confusion comes in after that point, because what a lot of people are doing, and everyone is absolutely entitled to their own opinion, by the way. I'm not trying to force anything.

But I'm not trying to force my opinion on anyone. But what happens is you get a lot of people who say, okay, aliens, rather, angels are extraterrestrial. That is an indisputable fact. Okay, we can go there. But then they'll put a comma, but they are interdimensional beings. And so that may be true, and it still means that they're extraterrestrial, as we've discussed on your program before. But people need them to be interdimensional to go any further.

I don't know if you guys are following me here. They need them to be interdimensional or spiritual to go any further. And what I've been saying is I can go with you there also. I can subscribe to something like that and do to some extent. Because I do believe that there is a distinction between us and them and that they are of a higher nature than we are. But that doesn't mean, from my point of view, that these entities are disembodied. And this is where I would part ways with Heiser, with all due respect to Heiser and his work, which again, let me say I'm a huge proponent of Heiser's work, love it. Okay. But that's where I would

deviate because I read Heiser's work on angels, very well written, very well, researched, and so forth. But this is where a lot of people are in this camp. Okay, yes, angels are extra treacherous. but they're spiritual beings. In other words, they're disembodied. I disagree with that. If you have disembodied beings that have no need for flesh, then you cannot add them into this equation over here with all of this advanced technology.

You can't have both. You can't have beings who don't need to fly around in advanced aerospace vehicles flying around in advanced aerospace vehicles. Right. If they're ethereal, they can disappear anywhere they want, right? This is the whole, this is the Daniel 10 paradigm too, right? Which doesn't really make a lot of sense. If you are, if you're dispatched to bring a message to Daniel, but you get delayed by, you can just show up.

This is, honestly, this is a lot of what we had issue with Nate when we interviewed the exorcist. And I'll like to give you, actually this, Tim, but, you know, one of the things that everything's ethereal can just be here and then not be here. And it's like, that doesn't really work with what the, what the biblical text says. You can find a lot of things where that is in it. You know, you don't walk into Sodom. You know, you don't, those are things that are interesting. And I think, Tim, one of the things that people will say, well, they took form, right? I even heard theologians talk about this.

Yes. They take a form. And that's right. And I know you differ on that. Well, it doesn't make any sense. Right. You're talking about a genie at this point. Yeah.

You're talking about the genie from the lamp and Aladdin at this point. When you cross over that. As long as Robin Williams, Jeannie, not in not the normal. Right, exactly. Robin Williams. Yeah, we'll go with that one. Specifically. When you cross over to that territory, that these are spiritual beings, dare I say, supernatural beings,

which of course, famously, I'm not a big fan of the supernatural. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But when you cross over into that, into that realm of explanation, you have divorced yourself from the data that we're talking about when we talk about the UFO phenomenon. Is that making sense? Yeah. So that you have divorced yourself from the data. Now you have created a separation between theology and theory and the actual hard facts that were dealing with here.

Now are there aspects of UFOs and these entities that are not specifically and exclusively physical? Of course, we're not exclusively physical beings. We are the combination of spirit and flesh, but we're not a spirit person and a flesh person. There aren't two of each of us. We are one person and we happen to be an amalgamation of spirit and flesh. We are embodied and we were created to be embodied and that is why there's something called the resurrection. You don't get a different body, you get your body back.

that body is going to be rectified and is going to be what the Bible calls glorified, which I believe is a rectification of the human condition and human DNA to a reset to the blueprint of Adam. How do I know that? Because Jesus's body wasn't in the tomb anymore. And neither were the bodies of the saints who rose with him, the first fruits of the resurrection. Their bodies weren't there anymore. It wasn't like they got a new one and their old one was just going to rot in the tomb.

their old bodies were reconstituted. So why do I say that? Because I'm trying to highlight this theological principle that the body isn't something that's secondary and that's done away with. No, you're going to have it forever if you're in the kingdom of heaven. It's going to be resurrected, reconstituted, and reset to the blueprint of Adam in Christ, the second Adam. You're going to have that body. You're going to be just like he is, and his body isn't in the tomb. He has the marks of the crucifixion in his hands and so forth.

He's got his body. So people want to divide. They want to diminish the role of the flesh. And when the Bible talks about the flesh in a negative context, carnality, the carnal mind, and so forth, what we're talking about are the desires of the flesh when they overpower the desires of the spirit? In other words, what are the desires of the flesh?

What is carnality? It is basically those bestial impulses that all creatures have. So you have an a cow that spends all day long eating and crapping. And in certain times of the year is just, engage in sexual activity. These are the base applications of the flesh. We have them also because we are created, we are creatures. Let's put it this way. We are also creatures and we have bodies. And so we have those base desires and necessities, but those things are not to rule over us. We are not like the animals in that we are made in the image of God and we have a higher

consciousness, and this isn't some new age thing, we have a, we have a higher consciousness in that we are able to contemplate God, we are able to contemplate our own existence, we are able to do, to solve mathematical equations and have, and come up with theoretical propositions for all kinds of things. We have this higher consciousness that is in operation. And so this is a part of us, our consciousness, call it our soul that is superior to what animals have. And so when you talk about this struggle between the flesh and the spirit, it's not saying that the flesh is in and of itself bad. That's an old heresy, that the flesh is bad, that only the spirit is good.

That is not a biblical principle. being consumed, being driven, continually driven, being obsessed with the desires of the flesh. That's called carnality. When your flesh is unbridled, you're in a carnal mode. You're operating in a carnal mode. You're feeding your flesh excessively. And that's gluttony. And that's drunkenness.

And that's fornication. And that's all of those things. that is feeding your flesh excessively, having an unbridled flesh, your desires, your fleshly desires are not properly bridled, right? Animals don't do that. Animals don't have that problem because they don't have, they weren't created for any other purpose, but we were. And so we have this other component, this spiritual component.

And that's why when we operate in this, when the Bible talks about being spiritually minded and being in the spirit, this is what I'm going to call operating. And again, I'm not using this in the same way that new age people using it. I'm using it in the scientific term of consciousness. It's operating in a higher degree of consciousness in comparison to animals in that. We aren't just thinking about eating and drinking and copulating all day long like animals. We rather, are contemplating the kingdom of heaven. We're contemplating the glory of God. We're contemplating the wonder of nature. This is that component of human beings that is spiritual. And so what I'm trying to demonstrate is we are composite of that higher consciousness, that spiritual-minded person and the flesh, a fleshly creature. We are the combination of those two things. Okay. And I believe that to some extent, although they have a different nature from us, that angels are also like that. They too are a composite of, they are creatures. They too are a composite.

They have a material composite and they have a material component and a spiritual component. And those things are interplaying just like with human beings. Why do I say that? Because because the evidence for it is everywhere in the biblical narrative. It's literally everywhere. You cannot talk about Genesis 6 and be in the mode of disembodied spiritual beings. Because these so-called disembodied spiritual beings are lusting. They're trying to go to the bone yard. They're having sexual impulses. They're having sexual impulses.

How do you have sexual impulses if you don't have a body? They're lusting after these women. And as I've said on your show before, they're clearly genetically compatible with them. So they're very much like us, although they are of a higher nature than we are. In other words, go ahead.

I'm sorry. I'm pontificating. Well, no, I mean, I think, you know, I think of my times in college. And, you know, Luke and I went. And I think about... It's a great start of this conversation. Tim just left out of time's in college.

Well, no, I mean, just being surrounded by a type of thinker, right? Like, our education system. Like, I remember when we were on the road in a band and the car broke down and someone had to change the wheel and all these college grads, nobody knew how to do it. They were worthless in the real world. So I was the only guy that worked at an auto shop in high school, so I'm fixing the van. And there is a type of person out there. They're so educated, they're so trained to think a certain way.

When it comes to real practical thinking, they don't know what to do. That's a good point. They are so in their head about all the theology. You throw aliens, you throw Bigfoot, you throw any of these topics in there. And it's like, it's like a car with no suspension. It rattles and falls apart. They can't handle it. You're the rec major to come in and change the car, right?

I just, you just needed somebody they were. That's what he was. He was a wreck major. Yeah. I mean, but yeah, I mean, hey, throwing frisbys, hauling canoes. No, there's, there's an element of humility. There's an element of life experience. There's all different types of smarts, street smarts, emotional intelligence, actual intelligence. Knowing how to talk to a child takes a lot of intelligence, knowing how to navigate a tough situation, how to negotiate. There's all types of intelligence. And I think a lot of us, we go to church, we hear from a pastor, went to a seminary. and like Heiser said, they only took like a couple hours in seminary about angels and demons.

So we have been, we've systematically removed the spiritual aspect of the story, and we've talked about it in platitudes, but nobody, except those who've had a blurry experience, really understand, I think, how to read this book, how to make sense of these spiritual things and come to a place where they can put aliens in their biblical worldview just fine. It's not a big deal. Well, I think, and what you said is very important. I think people have a hard time for some reason when they approach the biblical narrative, they have a hard time thinking practically about it.

And I'm the opposite. I always say I'm famously, probably excessively practical in my thinking, I'm sure. And so it's very easy for me to think practically about everything. And again, you can't have it both ways in my practical mind. You can't have a disembodied being fitting the data of the UFO phenomenon and everything that we now know to be true, which again, you've, ephologists have known for decades, but is now being verified and confirmed in public. Those two things don't go together. You can contrive a way in which they do. For example, you can say, well, here's what's going on.

You see, angels are disembodied spiritual beings that can take on the form of a man. Okay? Can they take on the form of a cup? Can they take on the form of a rock? Can they take on the form of a dog? If they can take on the form of a man, again, we are now talking about it. about a genie. We're not talking about a being, which is kind of stuck in the same laws of physics and parameters that we are. We are now talking about a genie. And I don't believe in genies.

So there's a disconnect there. And then people are having a hard time because they want to affirm the notion that angels are extraterrestrial beings, okay, they got that. And that, some, Somehow, angels slash fallen angels are involved in the UFO phenomenon. Okay, good so far. But there's still this disconnect because so many people want to hold on to the notion that angels are disembodied. And the data doesn't, that notion doesn't fit the data set. If you're going to make an association at all between angels fallen or otherwise,

and UFOs, then you got a problem here. And then the other contrivance, so the first contrivance is they can take on any form, okay, they can materialize. All right, the other contrivance is that they're just flying around in advanced aerospace vehicles to deceive us. They don't have to,

they don't actually use that technology or need it, they just do it to deceive us. Problem is it's been going on a long time. It's been going on. Frankly, I find that, I find that to be so nonsensical. It is so nonsensical. I'm using the word nonsensical here to be kind. It's nonsensical. It's illogical. It's irrational. We have recovered these craft. We have been reverse engineering them for decades. We have, we have been able to derive some real world technologies from them. These craft are manufactured. somewhere. Okay. They're manufactured. They're fabricated. They're not just poofed into existence by a genie. They're fabricated. We know this to be true. This is knowledge that has been applied in such a way that technology has been derived from it and that technology

is in our hands. We are inside of these things trying to fly them around. We have multiple versions of them and so and so I'm trying to help people and again I'm not saying my perspectives are this I have the right perspectives and everybody else doesn't no I'm just trying to to help people bridge the gap between thinking about disembodied spirits and and dealing with the data set and this is where I'm seeing all the confusion and so I think we have to Concede. I think we have to concede. Well, I think you're trying to give ideas, and you're trying to give examples, includes all the data.

You're trying to say, okay, here's all the things on the table. What could this possibly be? What is the picture pointing towards? And you have a lot of theologians right now who have very, very few thoughts about any of this stuff. And they don't even really know a lot about demons. You ask them, what's a demon? Where does a demon come from? They don't really even have a great answer for you. And then they're interpreting all the paranormal stuff as demons or demonic just because they're not an expert in this subject. They haven't looked at it for very long. Instead of having

humility to say, I don't know what these things are. They have to have a Christianese answer for their Christian followers about a topic that they know nothing about, things they've never looked into. And I think that's a big problem right now. Christians are looking to their pastors or their favorite Christian social media influencer. What are it going on? What are these demons? And I think part of your part of your heart is and part of your concern is, is that with bad answers, it's going to rattle people so much they're going to fall apart. You're going to see a lot of people deceived in the next coming years because they don't understand Christians specifically. They don't have a framework that can handle this. Right. To be able to

give answers that fit the data set. Otherwise, our answers are irrelevant. They're irrelevant. If they don't fit the data set, they're irrelevant. You can't change the data set. You can't change it. It is what it is. You have to deal with. People don't know the data, though. They just don't. They just don't know. They don't know. Well, I just, I just read through those talking points from the, from the, from the, from the, from the Congress, the hearing on UAP. But part of them, they don't have the humility to read that. They don't have the humility to hear it. They don't have the ability to say, that's probably true. There's no, there's physical bodies, people. Well, they, they need, they inside, they just, they tense up and they go, that's, that's impossible. I can't read that

data. I can't accept that as a truth. And I think they do. about a lot of things possible because because because because because I never heard about it no one ever talked to me about it well also because angels for example are disembodied they're disembodied they're just they don't have bodies they're it's they're just spirit beings and then they think and then and then like demons and they're right on this point but and it's funny because they kind of flip that think about it don't don't a lot of people flip that they do the inverse so they say well angels don't need to fly around in UFOs and advanced aerospace vehicles why because they're spiritual beings.

Okay, got it. All right. So what is a UFO? What's in there? Demons. And it's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. What? Demons are in there.

But you just said that angels who are spiritual beings have no need of physical craft because they're spiritual beings. But yet a demon does. And all of the indication is that angels actually have bodies in the narrative. They're doing everything that people with bodies do. but we know for a fact that demons don't. We know for a fact that if there is a disembodied being, it's a demon. You see the inversion?

Yeah. So there's this weird inversion going on. And what I'm saying is flip that. And I think we're closer to fitting the data set, flip that scenario, and understand that demons are disembodied, specifically disembodied. This is a curse. It's a unique condition. they're disembodied and they're looking for bodies.

They can only interact with the fabric of the material world if they inhabit bodies. And again, it's a curse. It's an unnatural condition. And angels have bodies and use technology. I think if people will just start there, I think they can begin to make sense of this because then at least we can answer some of the data points. We can say, for example, the following, which is what I say, that some, of the technology that we're encountering, that we're encountering in our airspace, that we're

picking up on our radar, that some of that technology, those aerospace vehicles belong to angelic beings, or at the very least are being piloted by angelic beings. And then you can divide that statement into two parts, being piloted by the loyal sons of God and the disloyal sons of God, the faithful sons of God and the rebellious sons of God, that they're utilizing the same kind of technology because they come from the same civilization after all. They're utilizing that technology and they're both doing it, obviously, for different reasons. And we have the interaction of the good guys and the bad guys in the biblical narrative. The good guys, actually, we see a lot more. The bad guys are inferred in a lot of situations. But the good guys, we actually

see them doing this. And so if we start right there and we say, demons are disembodied, are there, is there a way that they might be involved in this phenomenon? Yes, I guess there are, there are ways that you could, you could involve them in the phenomenon. We can discuss those in a bit. Okay, but let's just push those aside for a minute because they're the least likely candidate. They're disembodied spirits. They're ravenous entities that proceeded from the bastard sons of the watchers, the giants in the pre-flood age. They are seeking body. to inhabit. Okay, let's push them aside. Let's put them over here because we have their category that's very clearly delineated. Okay, they're over here. Let's just leave them there for a minute.

And let's just deal with this other faction that we encounter, these angelic entities, and let's concede that they have bodies of some kind, not our bodies, but of some kind, higher nature than we are. They eat, they drink, they play instruments, they wield technology, they use vehicles of conveyance, and a on and on and on. Okay. And by the way, they, they, they apparently, they do battle with each other. How does spiritual beings harm each other? You don't got bodies. That's a problem, right? So, so these beings, based on the biblical narrative, most likely do have bodies. Yes, they do. They're not just disembodied. That doesn't fit the data. Okay. And so now let's understand that they do have bodies, and now let's plug them into the equation here. So that's why I can, to the UFO equation, That's why I can go with people.

I can't go with people who say that they're demons. I can't go there because that's incorrect. It's semantically incorrect. It's theoretically incorrect. But I can go with people who say these are fallen angels. Okay. We have one category of beings who could be and likely are piloting some of these craft. Fallen angels and don't forget the good guys.

The angels, good and bad, are piloting those craft. Okay. now. The problem with even that statement, though, Tim, is you've got multiple types of angels described and you've got multiple types of aliens described. We were just about to go there. Yeah. That is the issue. But at least you see what I'm doing. Right now we can start to fit the data set. Right. Correct? We can start to fit the data set. And Tim, this conversation, like this worth is going. To me, this was the most profound thing out of this entire whistleblower saga we had a Wednesday was the admission that there was biologics, right? That, that,

to me is very interesting if that's true right and we we you know you can believe what you want to believe

but if that person was blows telling the truth and legally protected and has to go to skiff there's a lot of things that would make this

they would give credibility to this if that's true then that of course behooves that there's physicality right and there's biologics

and so and so this conversation right this is why this is why we are this is why we're talking about this right is that this is what they're saying so if you're to

the craft itself Right. The craft itself indicates that we're dealing with material beams. Sure, sure. Absolutely. Right. But then you talk about people still have this block where they're like, well, it's being flown around by demons. Okay.

This is hard then if you go say they have biologics, right? Then you're at two levels. And I think the crafting for me, there's been a lot more of that, whether it be Bob Lazar and or the recovered crash sites or Roswell. They're talking about bodies of Roswell, granted. But you have these, these ideas that these things crash. But the admission now. And I think people were kind of, if you're in any kind of euphology circle, I think that was a given. But the idea that there's now the mission of biologics to me, you have to be a little more pragmatic about this.

It just, the data, the data requires you to be more pragmatic if you buy the data. Of course, people that are going to throw all this out. But I'm saying if you, you're in a position now under oath and I know people all lie under oath, you can play devil's advocate a million times. But this, this to me is not a, from the beginning of this conversation. Yeah. So it's not a, this is not a government sciop. These people are actually at risk, a risk of their own safety. Airplane are doing a dance right now legally.

Yes. And saying they can't say this. You got a hundred years of crashes and sightings. You have, you know, you have a whole wing, apparently, in the Vatican archives directed to UFOs. So you have, this goes back. You have historical sightings that we've, we've covered some of them that go back to the 1500s in terms of people. seeing things going on in the sky. This is not a modern phenomenon. And it's been getting,

it's been heavily documented in America for over 100 years. And, and there's all kinds of farmers and the stories that didn't make it, right? The stories of this, I recovered crash on my field. I don't know what it was. And the same thing for all these characters. I think you're getting into the creature delineation. We've, we've devoted our podcast to all types of blurry creatures. That's a good way to say it. Yes. We are getting into the creature delineation. of the entities that we're dealing with within the biblical narrative. Angels are creatures. Couldn't name the podcast.

Anything better, Luke? Because we just keep adding to the list. Nate, just, you know what? Tim didn't want to toot his horn. You don't want to toot yours. I'll tote both your horns right now. Great job, guys. Great job.

Well, this is where we need to go because angels are creatures, just like we are creatures, very much like us, actually. I contend they're our siblings. That's why we look like them. So, as everyone knows, now we can start, as I said before, now we can start to, now we can start to synchronize some of what we have delineated these creatures from the biblical narrative. We can start to synchronize this with the data set that euthologists have known for decades.

Again, this isn't new to people who've been following studying uphology. But now we can begin to synchronize these these biblical, creatures with the data set. Again, if angels need to use advanced aerospace vehicles for conveyance to and fro from where, from the kingdom of heaven, which I believe has locality, they're coming from somewhere, right? Then we can answer the question, at least to some degree of whether or not angels slash fallen angels have anything to do with the phenomenon. We can at least, at least, least offer the beginnings of a theory. And we can say yes. They do. They use this craft. We have evidence of it in the biblical narrative. And so it is no surprise. It should come as no surprise

to a student of the narrative, the biblical narrative, that we are discovering these things in our atmosphere. We should expect to find them. Should we not? We're not the first, as you've pointed out, we're not the first observers of the phenomenon. And how does that make any sense? Well, it makes perfect sense because all the way, going all the way back to Adam, mankind has been interacting with these specific creatures, heavenly creatures, i.e., rather, these heavenly creatures, we call angels since the beginning. So we can understand that now. We can place that into the phenomenon on and make some sense of it. But as Nate said, that doesn't complete the picture because you have more than just

one thing going on here. You have the grays. You have all different kinds of apparently different species or however you want to think of them, biologics. And by the way, that term... Yeah, it's very interesting terminology. Yeah. It's referencing, it's referencing synthesized entities, synthesized biological creatures.

What do you know about that? Explain what you mean by that. It means creatures that were manufactured. Interesting. Through genetic engineering, through whatever process, they're manufactured. They're probably not fully biological. They have biological components mixed in with cybernetics. So what do you make of that, Tim?

So, yeah. Okay, so here we have these creatures. So now here we go. Now we can, now we can know that up here in the background somewhere, we have the angelic race. Right. Okay. There, we have put them over here. here, into the equation, we plug them in. Now we have these creatures that are clearly not

those, the angelic race. These are something else. These seem to be manufactured. So now people can speculate, well, did this angelic race manufacture those? Did they manufacture those? Now, there are some people who are theorizing. It's intriguing, certainly, are theorizing that these physical beings, these biologics, these biological entities, the eBEs, the extraterrestrial biological entities, that these are the physical, that these are interfacing with us, that these physical things are interfacing with us on behalf of a non-physical consciousness or beings that are not physical, spiritual beings that's called them. That's a theory. Intriguing, but it doesn't make any sense to me. Why does it make any sense to me?

It doesn't make any sense that spiritual beings would interface with us in this particular way, that they would create physical things to come interface with us rather than interface with us directly. Right, which has been happening since the beginning, right? Exactly. We are, after all, also spiritual beings. And then you can talk about anything that we want to wrap around psychedelics or astral protection. Right. Anything in the new age space where people have direct interactions with spiritual entities or on a plane with whatever you want to really the semantics around it that's already happening

so this seems like an odd an odd and odd sort of vehicle for for that or we're plugging or are we plugging our brains into something when people take psychedelics and have other kinds of out-of-body experiences and so forth are they plugging their brains into something their consciousness is it plugging into like a communication network? Let's say like the internet, like the conscious internet, let's call it for lack of a better term. And through these psychedelics, what the Bible calls Pharmakia,

are plugging their brains into this matrix? Into this matrix of consciousness. There you go. Thank you. Into this matrix of consciousness. Or hive mind or whatever. And are interacting with other creatures who are plugged in, but not necessarily physically.

interacting, rather they're interacting through their consciousness. Just like you and I, we're not interacting physically right now. We're interacting through the medium of the internet. So is there a way that human beings can do that? I think there is. It's called psychedelics. I do like shower thoughts. These like shower thoughts are like, what if? I do not recommend it. I am not a proponent of psychedelics. I'm not seeing that at all. That's precisely why I think they're dangerous because when you plug in your consciousness is something you don't understand and cannot control. if I'm right and we're plugging ourselves into this matrix of consciousness through pharmacia, then you are in a very vulnerable state at that point because you are the least

informed out of everybody else plugging in. I mean, when I say everybody else, I mean non-human entities that are plugging in, especially the ones that are malicious and malevolent and are looking to manipulate you. So you become a victim. You allow yourself to be victimized. And that's probably why there's a prohibition for pharmacia, in the Hebrew Bible because you open yourself up to manipulation and control. Well, also people will see the same things. This is always the argument that people aren't having, you know, all these individual folks aren't having these individualized trips that people would talk about.

They're seeing all the same things, right? Same entities, same kind of creatures, same kind of, and you're like, this is very odd that people across cultures, across age groups, across people types with all different brains, different upbrings, different everything, different education, different everything, different life experiences are having shared commonalities in their quote trips right and i don't want this is not a psychedelics episode but i do think that that that point that point though right is interesting right like this does that the idea of synthetics for an interface it doesn't really make a lot of sense considering sort of the pathways that exist if that's right what's happening exactly yeah right

but it is intriguing isn't it i mean all these people on psychedelics seeing all these seeing the same right machine elves and yeah exactly and all these different she nows right generally speaking they're having these same kinds of experiences but what what could again a theory that could that could explain that is what i just expounded which is we are plugging our consciousness into a consciousness matrix like the internet the internet of consciousness and and we are getting we receiving information from that matrix and if everybody's plugging into the same matrix you're going to be accessing the same kind of stuff. And again, this is why it's so dangerous for us to do that.

Because you don't know what's coming down the pike here. You have no idea and you have no control. One does not simply walk into Mordor, right? One does not simply plug their consciousness into the consciousness internet. Yes, exactly. Without reprisal of some kind. No, Tim, I think the one thing that I wanted, that I wanted to ask you in this is we've had this conversation. Because, you know, I love the case, the case that you've laid out, I think over the course of these, these episodes that we've done is compelling.

The pragmativeness of what we're seeing, especially married with now this whistleblower testimony and everything else that we know if you're into the euphology. A lot of people in our show aren't that into it or haven't had the 10,000 hours, I'd say that a lot of folks, including yourself have had. But because you've been, really as you said, at the top of the show, you've kind of predicted all this. I would love to have you prognosticate

just a little bit on, now that we're at this point, we're here. This is this week, this week, we have whistleblower congressional hearings of people that are

at the risk of their own life and limb with legal protections and you haven't used to skiff or telling the American people that things are going on within the military industrial complex, within wings of the government, within wings of unregulated government, dark money, black ops, etc. These things are happening. Here's what's happening. The American people deserve to know.

Congress deserves no, because Congress, if you believe them or not, whatever you take on the government, these people generally seem to not know. And I think the story with Luna and Matt Gates going on base and not being allowed is a pretty good anecdotal story to them not being privy to all this. So the government doesn't, the government as it is, in quotes, doesn't know all this. In fact, they're learning as we're learning. And so you can call them Patriots if you want. And I think some ways they are risking their own livelihood to expose what's happening. And so this happened this week. And so I know you're saying this isn't disclosure.

And this is not in that sense it isn't. But if we're to take this to some degree, disclosure. But if we're pulling this thread and we're saying this is the point we're at right now in time, what do you think how? What happens next? I'll tell you what I think happens next. And I think this is precisely what a lot of people. expect to happen next. A lot of people who've been studying this whole rollout. We are now going to get more whistleblowers from the Air Force. That's a given. They're coming. And they may be coming in droves.

And we are going to get more importantly whistleblowers from these private aerospace contracting companies. Therein lies the true substance of the cover-up. And when those people start to come out of the woodwork, then we're going to see the dam really start to break apart. It's those individuals working in those aerospace companies. And maybe they're all being threatened behind the scenes right now. But, and surely they are, the people who actually have hands on the technology on a daily basis and perhaps even are interacting with the entities, those people have a story to tell that is far beyond anything that we have heard from Grush or from Graves or from Fravor. and when those people come out, you think people's heads are exploding now,

just wait until those testimonies come to light. And that is precisely why I guess I'm so passionate of trying to help people prepare themselves for this. And I want to circle back for a moment to the scenario, the explanation that I was unpacking regarding how angels, how the biblical narrative can be plugged into the dead. data set that we know about UFOs and how we can make sense of that without throwing around these nonsensical tropes, aliens are demons, and to come to a more sensible explanation. So we know that angels are in play. I'm convinced 100%. I think it's a logical inference that angels

are in play here, good and bad. We know that biologics, these synthetic entities, let's call them, synthetic slash organic slash cybernetic entities are involved. Those would be the grays. Those would be the EBEs and the other apparently manufactured creatures that are familiar to eophologists. These are the ones that abductees usually encounter

because they're created for the abduction program. They're the worker bees of the program. That's what they were designed to do. And that's what they do. Behind the grays, you have an insectolin, which I do believe some people are not sure about the insectilins. I'm 100% convinced they exist. Behind the grays you have the insectulins.

I do not believe that the insectulins are synthetic. I believe the insectulins, and I would concur with David Jacobs on this, I believe the insectulins are the natural species. They are the organic species. Those are the ones that look even more exotic than the grays. They have the spindly arms, and they look like brain mantises a little bit. They resemble insects more than the grays. Richard Dolan suggested that even those,

creatures might be composite creatures that were created from animal life on earth so that they could also fulfill a function here, whatever they're doing, the abduction program. Very intriguing. That could be true. I tend to think that those are the organic species. Those are not, in my book, fallen angels. And everyone should know by now why I don't believe those are fallen angels, because the sons of God, we all look like each other. We look like the son of God, the preeminent son of God, who is the expressed image and likeness of the father. And that is, of course, Jesus, the son of God. We look like him. So the sons in the family look like the preeminent son. So the quote-unquote fallen angels are sons. They're sons of God. And so they wouldn't look like

the insects. They would look like us. Right. So when I see an insectoid creature, I don't look at that and say, oh, that's a watcher or that's because it doesn't make sense to me. It doesn't, again, it doesn't fit the data, right, that I'm trying to expound here. So you have, now you have these synthetic biologics, these biological entities that are manufactured by who? By the insectilins? Maybe. Who are the insectilins? Let's say they are, for the sake of argument, the organic species.

Where do they come from? Well, the explanations for where they might come from are endless. I mean, we could speculate all day long as to where this organic species, if indeed they are the organic species, the insectil. where they come from. They could come from the inner earth. They could come from another planet. Yes, they could come from another dimension. Of course they could because we don't know anything about another dimension. So you can't take it off the table, even though I think it's spurious to some degree. So there's an organic species. So now we have two players in the game, don't we? We have the angelic faction, the ones that look like us, rather we look like them. And now we, and we have the

insectilin faction, the grays, who are manufacturing the grays. And by the way, A very diverse variety of grays are being manufactured for diverse purposes, are being genetically engineered, are being engineered with both organic and synthetic components and, as I said before, possibly even artificial intelligence, right? Why? To fulfill their function. What's their function? The abduction program. Okay. Hopefully I'm making sense to everyone.

So now we can start to categorize and we can start to make sense of this and we can say to ourselves, okay, if we've got two factions in play, and we're not going to go through all the factions, don't worry. If we've got two factions in play, now the question, now we can ask even more interesting questions of the revelations that are coming out from Grush and these other guys. So there's this intimation that we've been in contact with an extraterrestrial or at least non-human species. Now we can say, which one? Are these elements of our military and private contractors and who knows who else, intelligence community, not just of our nation, but other nations. Are they in contact with the grace? I think the answer there is yes. Are they in contact with the grace? But then we can also ask, are they in contact with the angels? Fallen, right? Let's say, are they in contact? And of course, everyone knows I don't like the term fallen

angels. Oh, you love it. To say, clarity. Are they in contact with the fallen angels? Are they in contact with those guys? Now these questions are becoming even more interesting, rather than just dismissing the whole thing as a deception and, oh, demons. No, no, no, no. That's, forgive me for saying so, but that's stupid. Now we can ask intelligent questions. Are they in contact with the insurrectionary sons of God? Uh-oh, now we're getting to something very interesting here.

Are we not? Are they in direct contact with the insurrectionary sons of God? And if so, what information are they getting? what's going on? And we can ask the same question of the grays. What is the relationship of the aerospace contractors working on these special access projects? What is their relationship with gray aliens? What might they be cooperating on? And how does it relate to the abduction phenomenon? Okay, now we're asking questions that we may be able to derive answers from the data set and the data that's going to be coming out. Do you understand where I'm going?

it when I'm trying to help people to do it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I just, I think the funny thing is, Tim, is like what Luke and I have encountered doing this show over the years is I remember one of our first interviews with the Bigfoot scientist Jeff Meldrum. He was saying, people still think the film of Patty walking is fake. He's like, I have the footprints. I can tell you right now they're not fake. That was a real Bigfoot creature. And still, to this day, People think pre-internet, pre-CGI, pre-Costoms, that it's fake. You can't tell people. Not pre-costumes, Nate.

Not pre-costumes, but certainly for you're dressing up. Pre-costumes that we have now with, like, anatomy and biologics that move and things like that. One of the best costumes ever made. Let's at least say that it would have been. It would have been. And it was a female. And so there's just so much there in terms of costume making that people just don't understand. But what I'm saying is the debate, rage.

on that it's fake. Alien footage is fake. Everything you post is fake. Everything we post is fake. There is a type of person out there, no matter what, unless it shows up in their front yard and beams them up into an air, they're never going to believe it. So, there's part of us that's like

it's like they're going to derail this, their train is going to derail at some point. And I think what you're trying to, you're trying to give listeners as much data so when the bumps happen, you don't fly off this track. You can handle it. Where is this going? We don't know.

Yes. We don't know. But if you don't have enough data, you're going to fly off into the bushes and you're going to deconstruct your faith and you're going to... Yes. And I'm encouraging people to work with the data, not dismiss it. Work with the data. Tim wants to put shocks.

Don't dismiss it. He wants to put some shocks on your, on your blurry bus. You know what I mean? Yeah, there you go. Yeah, we're installing shocks on the air ride. Get that air ride like a catty. It's a smooth ride, baby. But, you know, I've only mentioned two factions.

again, we're not going to, I'm not going to sit here and go through all the factions. No, we got all night to him. We need to go all night long. But, you know, we've talked about the grace and the angelic faction. And is it possible that the Nord, the quote unquote, Nordics, the human fact, people call them, I don't believe they're human, but the Nordic faction, are they, the angelic faction? I think, I think it's plausible. Are there other explanations or maybe, but I think it's plausible. You got reptilians, you got Nordics, you got the Pleadians, you've got, right? So then you throw the reptilians in there. You know, I asked Richard Dolan yesterday. As people know, I considered Richard Dolan to be the premier euthologists of our time.

He's a trained academic historian, and Richard is my favorite, personally my favorite euphologist, because I think he's solid as a rock in many aspects. Of course, he likes to speculate, too. We all do. That's where all the fun is. But I asked Richard, and again, we're talking about Richard is probably much more conservative than a lot of other eophologists because of the way he's, because of his analytical, his processing of the data in an analytical way, rather than an emotional response, which is what a lot of people have when they're confronted with this stuff. And I asked him, Richard, off the top of your head,

what are the top, your top three or four most plausible species of aliens that, species of aliens that are most plausibly real? In other words, the ones that are most likely to actually exist, based on the compendium, the compendium of uphology and everything we know and everything that's come to light and everything he knows from interviewing people and so forth. And it's funny because he gave me the exact three and possibly the fourth that I would have given. And it is precisely the grace, including the insectilins, the reptilians and the Nordic. Or he doesn't necessarily like the term Nordic.

and I don't either, but it's the one that everyone knows. But he calls it the human faction because they're, for all intents and purposes, they're us. They look like us. And so forth. So, and again, who do I think those are? I think that's the angelic faction. Yeah. Because they're often described, these humanoid beings, as being six and a half, six and a half, seven, seven and a half feet tall.

And their features are much more. Comely. let's say they're much fairer than ours in terms of they look they have more vitality like a lot of brad pits like a lot of like 1990 Brad Pitt's yeah like a bunch of Brad Pitts one around there you go that's a good there you go that's a good way to envision but even with the but even with the gray's Tim you still you have the little green men they have the green ones and you have the grays and they're different and then you have the Flatwoods monster with like the the disc shaped ones I mean well the monsters is kind of a different conversation

even though there's some overlap. That's a whole other thing going on there, right? The flatwood, I'm saying the flatwood monster sounds like an alien being. It's described as coming out of ships, UFOs. It sounds like a gray, but it's like got a weird disc around its head. Right, right. And the reason why there's so many different types of aliens. Well, the reason why myself and Richard would identify those three groups right off the bat

is because of all the overwhelming amount of data and confirmation that these ones exist. the grays, reptilians, and the Nordics. I mean, it's just a flood of documentation behind those three factions. Okay. So that's why I'm not just pulling these out of the air, because these are my favorites or something like that. These are the ones that, again, these are the entities, let's call them the species that are most likely to exist based on, again, the data set that we had after decades of mythology. And also the testimonies that have come out in the past, like that. Lazar and the testimonies that are yet to come, the ones that I mentioned that are probably coming out of the woodwork.

And I will say the same thing happens with all these creatures. Same thing happens with Sasquatch. You've got all these different types. And there is years and years of data. And you devote yourself to one of these rabbit holes. And I think you'll come to the same conclusion. Yeah, I agree. You have like a phylum and then you have, you know, you can break it down.

Yeah, you can. It's so bizarre. With Bigfoot, you certainly can. Yeah. It's so bizarre. I just think that the hard part, Tim, is getting people even just to consider a species, let alone, you know. Just a demon. Well, just to get them to even into seeing the data.

What you just said, though, Nate, is very important, you see. You're not thinking demon. You're thinking species. Yes, exactly. That's a very, that's a totally different way of looking at this. Only because I do this podcast. I probably didn't think about that before. only because I've immersed myself in the data.

I've talked to all types of people who've seen these things and interacted with them or read the books or, you know, it's taken a while to say species. But I think that's a way humans can sort of think about it. Like, I don't know if that's the right word in terms of how you would classify it. But we do know that's how you do it with animals. So why wouldn't? A kingdom, phylum, class, order, family. genus species. Oh yeah.

Look at you. I don't even own a gun, let alone many. You did graduate high school. You did. But what I'm saying, though, is you still have even in the Bigfoot camp, you got guys that acknowledge the existence of Bigfoot, but they will not. And I mean, will not. Look at any of the paranormal weird stuff that is associated with it.

We released an episode today. Guys in his cabin. Bigfoot is putting images in his mind, and he's absolutely convinced how. How does a animal do this? Half the Bigfoot people will not accept these stories. They just won't. Because they wanted to be a simian. They wanted to be.

They wanted to be what they wanted to be. Well, they wanted to be an animal, an ape. And it is, and maybe some of them are more apish, and some of them are more advanced and sophisticated. And certainly one thing that seems to be consistent to cross the board with all these creatures is they're telepathic. and once you have a telepathic entity, you have an entity that's tapping into your

mind. And so if you can tap into someone's mind with thoughts and words, can you also manipulate their perception? Of course, we've talked about this, I think, many times on your show. And I think the answer is yes. So you also have to factor in the very real prospect of these entities being able to manipulate our very perception of them and of events that are happening around us. You know, the late abduction researcher Carla Turner, she talked about the Gray's ability, these entities' ability to generate what she called virtual reality scenarios, VRS's. And she would give examples in her

stories of abductions and the things that she personally experienced in that other people, her friends and family experienced. And in one case, there was a situation in which an individual was laying in a bed at night and they had this whole visual audio experience and they were they were they were um i don't remember all the details i think in the beginning they were screaming and then they were all staying in the same house in other words carla turner was staying in the same house as this individual and and and and maybe someone else ran into the room to see what was wrong and they found this person just laying in bed looking up at something in shock and long story. Long story, story short because I don't have all the details here in front of me. It's a fascinating story.

After debriefing this person, they realized that this person had this entirely visceral, perceptive experience that was unique to that person. No one else in the room was experiencing what that person was experiencing. They were not on narcotics of any kind, psychedelics or anything like that. And I think if I recall, I don't remember the exact details. If I recall, they did see a craft over the house. So it seems to have been that the entities in the craft were engaging this person telepathically and like we were talking about earlier, like accessing them, plugging into their, you know, plugging into their consciousness and this person is having this perceptual experience in their mind. Okay. So that's also in play. And we should never forget

that. That's always in play when we're dealing with these topics, whether it be Bigfoot or whether it be aliens or even whether it be angels. And that's why I think so much information is communicated to human beings via dreams. And I'm talking about within the biblical context, because you, when you're laying in your bed sleeping, if God wants to communicate to you and his communication to be uninhibited by your own thoughts, by your own, the interference of your own mind, he's going to do it when you're sleeping. He's going to plug into your mind and he's going to convey to you exactly what he wants you to know while you're in that dream state. And you're not distracted. It's very practical. You're not walking around. You're not in the marketplace. You're not going about your daily life.

You're, you are asleep. So you're, he can fully capture your attention in that scenario. So we're familiar with these concepts, but we don't use the same kind of terminology that I'm using now in regard to the biblical experiences that we read about. So let me finish up this, final thought here with what I was trying to, this scenario that I'm trying to paint for people in regard to what could be a foot here, what kind of entities might be accessing, utilizing, piloting the craft that Grush was talking about that are, that elements of the U.S. military and intelligence community and U.S. aerospace contractors are in possession of touching, trying to cut apart, trying to pilot themselves, and to some extent, reverse engineering, at least the

components. So we now can, we now can, we can have a better explanation than demons. And of course, this is not new to a lot of your listeners, but we can have a new explanation than demons. Let's, let's return demons into the equation for a moment because I know a lot of people, some of my colleagues, are still convinced that demons, i.e. the disembodied spirits of the Nephalim are involved, and even will refer to aliens as Nephilim. And I think it's a contrivance, but the way that you could fit a disembodied spirit of a Nephilim into this equation, into the data set, is you might say that these synthetic biologics, these manufactured entities such as the grays, have been fabricated so that they can house the spirits of the disembodied

spirits of the Nephilim. Although intriguing, I will say that that particular theory doesn't fit the data set. Why? Because as I've said on your show before, and as I've written in my book, if we examine the nature of a demon, which we have ample evidence in the New Testament, the nature, that ravenous nature of a demon, and we examine the nature of a gray alien, again that that stoic dispassionate subdued nature of the gray alien they don't equate they simply don't equate you could nothing is further in fact for the nature of a demon than that of a gray alien they are on opposite spectrums let's call personality spectrums they're on opposite spectrums so you have to explain that so if you're going to tell me that gray aliens are meat suits for demons that

And I need you. I need you to, and I'm not saying you guys, anyone who would make this contention, I need you to explain to me why the nature of the demon is different in the gray alien than in a human being. Why is the nature different? It doesn't make any sense. You have to answer that question. And so that's a real problem,

especially considering that gray aliens don't have reproductive organs. In fact, gray aliens don't eat. even eat food the way that we do. So what am I saying? I'm saying that you couldn't design a being a creature that would be less appealing to a disembodied spirit that is obsessed with interacting with the fabric of the material world and fulfilling the lusts of the flesh, even though they don't have flesh. That's their curse via the book of Enoch. You couldn't design a more incompatible creature flesh suit for that demon than a gray alien, you simply could not do it. A gray alien is like the last thing a demon would inhabit in my estimation.

The last thing. So we have to confront this problem. Don't just glibly ignore it. You have to confront it squarely. If you're going to be in this, and I'm not, again, I'm not talking about you two. I'm talking about people who want to be in this conversation and want to be so aggressive in their insistence that these are demons, then you have to confront this reality. Gray aliens, the nature of the gray alien and the nature of the disembodied spirit of a Nephilim are antithetical to one another.

Okay? You have to square that circle for me. All right. So that's the one, again, I will call it a contrivance of how you can shove in a demon into this equation of gray aliens and of aliens at large. There's other theories regarding how demons are related. Obviously, when most people think about demons, they're just thinking about the Western conceptualization of a demon, which is just any kind of a grotesque, malevolent creature. But we can't even work with that definition because it's not a real definition. just a Western perception of what a demon is. It is amorphous. It has no definitive parameter.

If we're going to talk about a demon within the biblical context, then we have to talk about the disembodied spirits of the Nephilim. That is and only is what a demon is in the biblical narrative. So now we can, I think, comfortably disassociate demons with the phenomenon, but yet we can very comfortably plug into the phenomenon fallen angels. Are you guys following me? Am I making sense? We can plug fallen angels and angels in general into the phenomenon, into the data set. And why have I gone through all this?

Because I know that when people say that aliens or demons, they're conflating demons with quote unquote fallen angels. They're conflating those two things as if it's the same thing. And I'm telling them, no, differentiate between a demon, set it aside. because it doesn't fit the data, but take the fallen angel as long as you're willing to concede that it has a body and plug it into the UFO phenomenon and you've got something there. That surely is part of the equation. I absolutely affirm that. I do believe that quote unquote fallen angels, the insubordinate, the apostate sons of God are manufacturing and piloting and utilizing this

technology. Yes, I affirm that. And I also. affirm that the good guys are doing the same. So let's now have this this categorization going forward and I'm again I'm talking to the audience let's have that categorization going forward and I encourage people to then try and develop theories based on what we've just discussed. Take the demon out of the equation keep the angel in and work from there. Okay. That's going to help a lot of people. I think, and that's why I'm going through all of this, I sincerely want to help people make sense of the phenomenon without losing their faith or without diverting to aliens or demon, the aliens or demon trope. Okay?

I'm trying to help people when they're talking to their family members, when they're talking to people of the church or whatever. I'm trying to help you. I'm not trying to be adversarial with anybody. I'm just trying to help you have a reasonable explanation from the biblical paradigm that fits the data set. And then, of course, you can contemplate reptilians. You can contemplate all these other things, the tall whites, and you can start to wonder how they fit in the equation. But I would be more concerned about not so much how they fit into the UFO equation,

but rather, if these beings do indeed exist, then my question is this, what is their allegiance, the status of their allegiance with the king of heaven? That's my question, right? what is the status of their allegiance to the king of heaven? Are they loyal members of the kingdom? Or are they insurrectionary? Are they enemies of God? Or are they subservient to God?

That's the most important question to ask here. And the answer is going to be complex, because obviously if we have angels in... The answer will be given in Costa Rica. The answer will be given in Costa Rica. That's right. Yes. But the answer is complex

because obviously we have good angels and bad angels in the equation. I mean, even Paul, even Paul in his writing is a New Testament, trying to get people to understand that. So I don't think your problem here is a new one. I think it's an ancient one. I think Paul was bashing over the heads.

Listen, we don't struggle with... We don't wrestle with... Flesh and blood here, guys. We're talking about principalities, powers, thrones, dominions, darkness in this world, spiritual forces in high places. There's a lot of crazy stuff. He doesn't say,

where we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against demons. It's over. It's a shut case. He's trying to lay out a spiritual world where there's a lot of, there's a lot of power players. There's a lot of complexity in there.

In different places, doing different things. Exactly right, yes. Same. And even just laying it out. We've talked about six different types of aliens on this episode, and you said three are legit based on eophologists. So it's complicated. Well, the most plausible to exist.

Let's put it that way. Yeah. You know, it's not a shut case in terms of all these things. And all those things have bodies and the physical bodies that people have seen and experienced and touched and interact with. Yes. And there's data for a long time. So. And it all fits the data.

It's the data set. Again, the data set that we've gone through in the beginning based on what's coming out with the revelations that are coming out for the whistleblowers. So we're not talking about an amorphous data set here. We're literally, the data set that I keep referring to is the decades of good euphology, which has been validated recently in these hearings and in the revelations coming from the whistleblowers. That is the data set that I'm referring to. And so, again, to reiterate, I'm trying to help people in their own contemplation. and then their discussions with their friends and families try and be able to make sense of this because if you tell your let's say you're having dinner with your parents and you say and they say hi it's just demons you say well well what if they're angels and then what's the next thing good and bad and what's the next thing what's the next the most likely statement that's going to proceed from the mouth of your parents next if they're christians it's going to be well no no because angels are what spiritual beings what was that mean right and then that sort of just cancels the conversation because there's no further inquiry into the relationship, the potential relationship between angels and the phenomena. Because you've just totally canceled out the possibility by saying, oh, those are just spiritual beings. Those are genies. Those are wisps of air with consciousness, disembodied consciousness. I don't buy it for a second. It doesn't fit, it doesn't fit the biblical

data. It doesn't fit the data set from the biblical narrative. And so I don't subscribe to it. And that's why I don't subscribe to it. And I don't, and it doesn't matter to me what the, what the Hebrew word of this means and that, you know, this means disembodied and these are always the, it doesn't matter to me because I'm looking at the narrative data set. I'm looking at the narrative. And the narrative, it has to fit the narrative. It can't just fit theology. It can't just fit your, your perception of Hebrew cosmology or something like that, or even Hebrew cosmology in general. It literally has to fit the narrative. It has to make sense within the narrative.

Otherwise, you're not working with anything. You're just trying to hold oxygen in your hand and make something out of it. But you can't because it's formless. It's ambiguous. It's amorphous. There's nothing to work with if everything is just a spiritual being over here. You have nothing to plug into the data. set over on this side on the UFO side.

And so again, again, I hope that people who've listened to this will at least be able to walk away with some building blocks in their hands that they can go over here to the UFO phenomenon and to the alien presence and start to build a logical perspective that is that that fits the that begins to fit the complexity and that begins to conform to the reality that we know regarding this phenomenon. I feel like every episode we do, we kind of come up with the title, and I feel like this, an easy one for something like this would be something in the realm of aliens have bodies. And, you know, something like that, because I get the point you're trying to hammer home. If aliens have bodies or angels have bodies, it begins to lay out a framework for better

discussion. And I think you want to have a better discussion. And I think that's what we've talked a lot about. We need to have that kind of discussion. We have to because we're going to get, we're going to become irrelevant. I mean, people who don't, who can't make sense of the, of the phenomenon in this way are going to become irrelevant. You're just going to become irrelevant because you don't have any answers. You don't have any reasonable positions that would make sense of the phenomenon. And I'm saying we do have, we do have them. I've been accused of many things, but one thing that I don't think anyone who listens to me or reads my work can accuse me of not being a believer in the gospel of Christ. That I am at my core. That I am more than anything else. And so when I approach

any topic in my life, I'm coming from that posture, from that position. I am a believer in the gospel of Christ. I'm not trying to talk people out of the gospel of Christ or believing in the biblical narrative. Quite the contrary. I'm just trying to get people to think practically about these things so that they don't, in fact, lose their faiths or become irrelevant in the conversation. And I think we need you, Tim, because I think a lot of the people in the alien space, they don't want to embrace, you know, they don't want to embrace the biblical narrative. You have a lot of guys in the ancient aliens crowd. They're pushing that whole thing. So for Christians to go after you is sort of silly because, you know, there's not a lot of people in this space who are looking at the data the way you are with that mind and also saying,

saying, look, this doesn't disprove the biblical narrative. This only confirms it. And you have to expand what you understand about the biblical narrative to make sense of these things. And, you know, you've got a lot of people who are anti in the UFO space. They're anti, they're anti-God. They think this UFO and alien presence disproves the Bible. That's what they think. They say, look, see? Correct. And for people to take shots at you, like that's just very unhelpful. Or Christians, you think that the existence of extraterrestrials threatens the verity of the biblical narrative, which is absurd. It really is absurd because the existence of angels doesn't threaten the biblical narrative, and they are extraterrestrials. Well, I mean, they don't see it that way. I'm just saying,

I think there is a knee-jerk on one side because they're afraid. So they make definitive statements because they're afraid because they're, you know, their whole understanding, their whole paradigm is being attacked, so they're afraid. And then there's the UFO community who's saying, look, see, see the Christians are idiots because they don't, they don't, you know, they don't, they don't have a way to explain this. And I think there's guys like, they're the aliens or demons people. Well, I think they think that they're the Ananaki people. They're the people that like, oh yeah, there's, there's all these different ways that humans could have originated. They have a really hard time putting, you know, God is the creator of, of all of this, you know, so. Yes, and we can all, I think,

affirm, and I think this is what people want to do. I really do. I think a lot of people listening to the show, this is what they really want to be able to do. So let me help them in this. We can affirm together that it's very likely, highly probable that the majority of the entities that are being encountered in our airspace, certainly the ones that are abducting people, they are malevolent. they are demonic in the sense that what they are doing is you might even call it satanic it is malevolent they are not friendlies and now leave the door open leave the door open because we've already established that both the good guys and the bad guys are likely flying around in these craft leave the door open for the good guys to be in possession of this technology and be wielding it

as well. As long as you leave that door open for the good guys to be in possession of the technology, we can affirm that the majority of these entities are not the friends of humanity. And we can affirm that unequivocally because of what they're doing, namely the abduction phenomenon, but not, but not exclusively the abduction phenomenon, the secrecy, the manipulation, and so forth. So people need to feel comfortable to be able to affirm that much of this is surely malevolent and deceptive, yes, but deceptive not in that. The phenomenon itself isn't a deception. The existence of extraterrestrials, there's nothing deceptive about that. It's not the deception that aliens exist.

That's not the deception. So we have to be able to, we have to be able to judge and evaluate things on a much more granular and high resolution level than I think people are accustomed to when it comes. I got to. So that's what I'm encouraging. That's what I'm encouraging. And hopefully, hopefully I haven't just further confused everybody. No, no.

But Tim, I appreciate it, man. Thanks. Thanks for coming on. I think we need you right now. We need guys like you right now. It's a lot of confusing things going on. and a lot of people with big channels are, you know, in the Christian space, don't really have the best answers for what's coming down the pipe. And Luke and I have just, if half the stuff we've heard on our show is true, like, we know that it's only going to get weirder.

And I don't think a lot of people have any idea how weird it is and how crazy it's going to get and how much we're going to learn. And it's going to blow a lot of brains. And buckle up, put some shocks on your blurry bus. Tim Malbarina is a good. modifying the blurry bus. That's what we're doing. It's in the shop right now. We're modifying the blurry bus.

That's been tricked out. We even got Kit and the electronic, just like Night Rider, telling you where we're going. Yeah, it's great to see you, man. It's been a bit since Peru. I love it. It's so great to sit down and pick your brain and have a discourse about this. as we talked earlier about it,

let's have a brief update on the, on the, on the congressional hearings. And I feel like there is a, a purpose in, in the things you're doing and, and the message you have for a time such as this. And as we, you know, we try to unwrap and answer the,

the questions that don't have answers. It's, uh, it's great to have you in and to be able to, to unpack some of these things. As you say, from an analytical, pragmatic and data, centered viewpoint and and I think that's so important for us especially you know as we try to you know empirically you know quantify things that in a lot of ways are unquantifiable but it's always great to see you Tim I know you just did you as you

said you just didn't an interview with Richard Dolan Richard Dolan be doing these things all week you know everybody go check out Tim's YouTube channel he's he's a master putting out great content and and make sure you you follow him on Twitter in the Graham And anywhere else, Tim, that we should have people continue to follow. You're probably, you pretty much sums it up. You can follow. You can register on my website for my mailing list.

I know some people sometimes have problems registering. I'm going to be revamping that, updating some of the features on my website to make it easier for people. But yeah, basically my website, follow me on, sign up for my mailing lists. Tune into my YouTube channel, subscribe there, Twitter and Instagram. By the way, Twitter is where I'm the most feisty. And, you know, I'm not really, people probably think I'm aggravated. It's actually quite humorous to me. It's, I actually, it's entertaining, maybe sometimes too entertaining to interact with people on Twitter.

But that's where you get the most interaction out of me's Twitter. But anyway, hey, thanks for having me on. And, you know, I apologize for venting this evening. But maybe some people will find it useful. and that's my intention. And if you get to the Graham and you follow it to him, just shout out to my wife, Amy Rogers, took your profile pick and we're at Machu Picchu.

So shout out to the Rogers family, baby. She insisted on it. She insisted on it. She insisted on it. She insisted on it. It was great. It turned out. It turned out great.

You guys have to understand. I am famously, I famously hate photos. Right. Even though people probably probably might assume that it's, that I love to take pictures. She's like, you know, Jasmine has to take some photos.

photos. But that's what my wife loves photos. My wife is a great photographer and so she always has to ask other people to take pictures of me because I refuse to take selfies and I'll take selfies with other people who want to take selfies with me but I don't I don't take selfies of myself. No, you shouldn't. So shouldn't you're above that because we all are. It's been a pleasure. Yeah, right. We all strive to be above taking selfies of ourselves. Above the selfie game. Yes. Absolutely. Thanks man. It is fun. Hey,