Blurry Creatures - EP: 193 Crop Circles with Temporary Temples

Episode Date: September 20, 2023

Mysterious geometric patterns appear in crop fields around the world. A crop circle is bizarre as the plants are not cut but are usually laid flat and most often swirled into a pattern that is often only visible from the air. Most crop circles appear in wheat and barley fields, but circles have been known to occur (in lesser numbers) in oilseed rape, maize, linseed, grass, and even borage – to name a few. On this fascinating episode, we welcome Karen Alexander of Temporary Temples to the show. Karen and her husband Steve have been studying and photographing crop circles for almost 30 years. While based in the UK, the Alexanders have traveled the world documenting these mysterious enigmas. As part of their research, they supply professional quality photographic imagery of unique crop circles to researchers, the media, and the general public. What are these mysterious circles? How you can distinguish between authentic crop circles and hoaxes? Who or what is creating these intricately designed circles and for what purpose? Join us as we dive into the unknown and high strangeness surrounding the phenomenon of crop circles.  Intro song: Maruex: The Perfect Girl guest: https://temporarytemples.co.uk contact: [e-mail] blurrycreatures.com Socials instagram.com/blurrycreatures facebook.com/blurrycreatures twitter.com/blurrycreatures Music Kyle Monroe: tinytaperoom.com Aaron Green: https://www.instagram.com/aaronkgreen/ Mastering: ironwingstudios.com Outro Song: TimeCop1983: timecop1983.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Luke so often people email us and they have this story. They're out in their woods and they're looking in the bushes and they go, what's that? And when you are pouring your dog food and your dog's bowl, that's the last thing you want to say. What is that? What is this stuff coming out of this bag? You know, I don't think a lot of us think about maybe what we feed our dogs. And that's why we partner with rough greens.

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And it had been, the weather was terrible the night it happened. It was raining. The visibility wasn't good. But there was this crop circle there first thing. the next morning just in perfect, pristine condition. So, you know, when you get, you know, you can kind of understand the argument when it comes to some of the smaller ones.

But when you think about some of the really big ones, it kind of really does start to kind of stretch the credibility of an argument like that, I think. It was made of 409 circles. It was made of 409 circles. It's, and actually when you go in a really new one, that there's been no real visitors to. One of the things you notice straight away is when you walk in

that you can hear the crop crunching under your feet because it's not actually, very often, it's not actually laid right flat on the ground. It kind of, the crop comes up a little bit and then it kind of bends over. So when you're walking around in it, you feel terrible, you know, because you're creating damage. And again, something people don't always know is that

if the crops are still growing when the crop circle happens, So if they're still green and growing and nobody walks in there, but they will actually recover through phototropism. They will actually kind of stand up again. And it'll be as though it was never there. And it'll be as though it was never there. It'll be as though it was never there. And it'll be as though it was never there.

The history of our Earth is so different from what we can imagine. Joy to join. The Smithsonian, that if they found out about a large skeleton, somewhere was to go get it. I'm going to assume at least one person is right, because if one person's right, it bust the paradigm.

It all goes back to the fallen chair. And the problem with the modern day church, they have a very truncated view of the supernatural. This backdrop is just pregnant with all kinds of meaning associated with this Mount Hermon event. And this guy defects from the kingdom. That's a big deal. Welcome back.

We're going, Banksy. We're going back to the UK. We're going to talk about some graffiti artists from the skies. What are they up to, Luke? What do you know about Crop Circles? Well, not much. It's a good thing we have Karen coming on the show because these are just such crazy phenomena in general. Like you have these incredibly intricate designs and they're temporary, right?

And one of the things we talk about is ancient history and these incredible buildings. I've talked with Derek Holston a lot with these incredible megalists. we went to Peru and saw this incredible construction, right, that just sort of defy logic in the sense of we don't really know how they did it, right? We don't really know how they were able to build, construct, and shape and fit some of these things together because that knowledge is gone. And crop circles are interesting because they appear you after year across the world, but they are so different and odd and strange. And there's a lot of people that connect to the UAP, UFO phenomena. At the same time, they, you know, a lot of people write this off as a hoax. And yet, yeah, when you see photos of these things, if you take a little bit of time to look,

these are almost impossible things to hoax based upon people that have been on the ground and seen. They don't break the, the crop isn't broken. Yeah. There are, you know, in some cases, four and 500 circles that exist, you know, and they appear overnight. In one design. It's just not possible with them out of time. So you have these sort of an enigma, quite. qualities around this and yet it's still very much high strangeness because it was the purpose and

what's happening here and so I'm very excited to kind of to dive in for the first time on our show here you know 190 plus episodes in to something that this really has really been going up really for the last I mean really documented I feel like and studied more so the last 50 years yeah I hope you guys appreciate this one because I think I've been messaging her for like a year and a half trying to get it's a long game Nate the long game but she yeah she she she obviously like a lot of these researchers, they are busy in sort of their season documenting and doing their thing. So kind of coming out of that season and she was able to come on. So long time to make this one happen. You know, most of us just know the movie signs and that's the, that's the extent of our understanding of

cross circles. But it's really bizarre. Some of these are basket weave together. And like she said at the end, there's a little little payoff, some some nuggets of truth of what happens. Sort of defy the the hoax theory. These things can't be hoaxed. If you want to be. become a member of the show, blurry creatures.com slash members get access to, you know, we have to do our little spiel here to all the bonus stuff. Keep the lights on here at blurry creatures. So many people support what we do and help us spend time interviewing, finding these people. Like I said, in emailing them for a year and a half to come on the show, we don't give up,

Luke. We do not. We just keep going until we get the weirdness. So that's the kind of dudes we're here. We love to find the truth and we keep going. And we're Probably just two stubborn dummies to just keep plowing ahead, you know? Yeah, can't stop. We'll stop. What are crop circles we're going to find out? You're now entering, not the bonzo, but the crop circle. Well, welcome to the show, Karen Alexander from temporary temples.

You've been studying crop circles for over 27 years. I'm sure you've gotten to a lot of the blurry topics that we talk about on our show. It's hard to stay in one lane when you're researching these topics. And Luke and I just got back from Peru, so our podcast is starting to take us around different places. And we started talking about Bigfoot, of all things. And lo and behold, that led us down a lot of these rabbit holes. But thank you for coming on blurry creatures. And I know you've been in this space a long time, almost 30 years researching, documenting,

exploring the phenomena of crop circles. So we're excited to get into that. But we have a, just a break the ice question that we do all the time on our show. Karen, do you have any thoughts on Bigfoot? Do you know anything about this creature or do you have any thoughts about it? But welcome to blurry creatures. Thank you. Yeah, I have read a little bit about it and I'm fascinated by it, utterly fascinated by it.

I love anything that's kind of weird, wonderful, out of the box, everything that's on the fringe. So, yeah, I try and keep up with as much of it as I can. I'm not, don't keep up with Bigfoot as much as I do other things. But yeah, I'm fascinated by it just and, you know, and other, you know, cryptids and strange creatures and so on that people see. So I'm open to it all, you know, is how I kind of feel about it. I'm, you know, I've heard people give really good accounts of seeing, you know, strange creatures. And yeah, I just think it's all fascinating. And perhaps all connected as well.

There is a hot debate if there's a British Bigfoot, if he's over there. some people say so yeah yeah i don't again i don't really know kind of much about the british angle on it but um you know i mean we have things like the lock nest monster over here you know and there's lots of talk about that but you know certainly people have seen some you know strange things in the UK so we have a lot of wild land here yeah i mean not as much as you guys but you know we do have a lot of wild land here and you know so we get sort of reports of all kinds of strange things that people see, especially if they're, you know, really out in the wilds. Yeah, you wonder if Bigfoot's flying and he's just traveling the world because people see him all over the world and

maybe Bigfoot's just hopping in these UFOs and just cruising or just doing something. Or maybe there's a British Bigfoot. Maybe he's a little more proper, a little more refined, and he has tea, you know, and maybe he asks permission before he abducts you, you know. Yeah, I mean, maybe he's a little shy. Yeah. Love it. That's right. There are, there are some sightings. If you, if, I guess this is a worldwide phenomenon when it comes to Bigfoot, but the man monkey, the British Bigfoot.

So maybe in all of your documenting of crop circles, you'll run into the big guy across the pond. Yeah, one day. One day. Let's hope so. Yeah. Well, Karen, tell us how you got into the studying of these crop circles. And then, like I said, we're pretty green on our show.

We don't know a lot about this subject. So we're fascinated to learn and give our listeners a little kind of, you know, peek into this phenomenon. Okay. So, well, from being a young kid, I just loved the unexplained, the strange. So, yeah, I'd sort of come across lots of things. I think the first book I ever really read about anything particularly strange was Whitley Streber's book, Communion.

And I think that was back in maybe 1987, something like that. And I would be 17 then. And it's scared that Jesus out of me. And I remember putting the book under my bed, so I didn't have to look at the cover. But at the same time, I was just fascinated by it. And of course, it was a really brilliantly written book. And then that kind of got me sort of thinking about the idea of, you know, the idea of, you know, UFOs, extraterrestrials and all those questions. And then I think after that I read, the next book I read was Timothy Good's book, a Bob Top Secret, who's a British researcher.

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Waffles are yours to claim. Book direct at storeshills.com. But the crop circles I got into in 1990, and it was because I'd seen a picture of one in the British newspapers. And it was kind of all over the newspapers then in the early days. And I was just gobsmacked by them. I think the one, the picture I saw was the one that ended up on the front cover of the Led Zeppelin album. and it had happened in a really tiny little village called Alton Barnes in Wiltshire

where they have the biggest crop field in the UK and it was in that field. And it was kind of one of those early crop circles where it was kind of circles with connecting lines and more circles and then there were sort of these key shapes that came off the circle. So it was a big long formation and I know just been blown away by it. And actually it was a kind of real seminal experience because it's one that I go back to quite a lot and think about the kind of the impact that it had on my psyche. And I think all kinds of things happen. I mean, first of all, there was something, a picture of something that shouldn't be there. So that's the kind of first thing that you kind of think about it.

There's something that that shouldn't be there. And yet there was a beauty and an elegance and a grace to it. and it was very geometric. So there was kind of an order to it as well, which was kind of again, in kind of out of step with the countryside, which is kind of like very easy and rambling and, you know, and all of that.

And yet here was something that was, you know, incredibly precise. And so I was, yeah, I was just blown away by it. And my other half, Steve, he actually went down there to have a look at it. And he drove the car down. And again, it was in this tiny little village. and cars were parked all down this country road where you couldn't really pass

and people were stood on the ruse of their cars to look down into the field and I think the farmer was completely overwhelmed by, you know, what was going on. But yeah, and then I just, then after that, it's like catching a bug. It's like you've got to know everything there is to know about it. And we were really lucky in the UK at the time. even by that stage there was the beginnings of sort of like UK-wide crop circle group, which I quickly joined and then got to meet other people who were also interested in it. So yeah, it was just a really instantaneous thing.

Just I thought it was thrilling and, you know, and there's something really, really seductive about a mystery. You know, when you don't have the answer to something, you know, it's incredibly seductive. So, and I, and then, you know, it snowballs, doesn't it? because you meet incredible people as well. So that was the other thing about the subject was that I got to meet people, you know, from all kinds of different backgrounds that I would never have, you know, got to meet.

And, you know, and it kind of widens your horizons and so on. So, yeah, it was just a really instant thing. As soon as I saw them, I was just absolutely sort of taken with them. Spent a lot of time driving through the English countryside. And a long time ago, I was in a band playing music. And we did about four tours there and got to see a lot of. a lot of those places. And I know one thing is that it is, like you said, it's pretty private. People keep to themselves. And it's different than the country here in America. I think it's

more peaceful and it's older and you can just tell these generations of people who have been doing this. And I don't think these people want attention in their hoaxing these things to bring a bunch of people to their farms, you know? No, definitely not. I mean, you know, I mean, over the years, obviously I've talked to a lot of farmers. I mean, one of the first things, that you realize is that this has been going on a lot longer than you then you realize. I mean, for me, my first circle I saw was in 1994. My other half Steve, he saw his first crop cycle in 1980. So it was, you know, 10 years before.

But then when you start talking to farmers and they tell you stories about how they and then their parents even would play in these things as kids, you know, then you begin to realize that actually this has been going on a lot longer than you think. Yeah, Karen, I want to ask you about that real quick because, you know, all you need to do is, right, is Google crop circles and there'll be a bunch of answers saying, this whole thing's debunked. It's a hoax, right? That a guy gets out there with a rope and a piece of wood and they can make concentric circles. I remember even watching some videos on this. I mean, it's been a few years. But I know that there's a lot of things that pop up and there's no people there hoax in it. There's a very famous video, I believe, from the late 80s or early 90s that kind of shows it's just one just sort of appearing. Oh, yeah, you mean the Oliver's Castle? I was trying to remember. I was trying to Google what that was. But so I wanted to ask you them, like, what do you say to folks that are really skeptical

on the front end saying, oh, we've seen how they do this. They've shown us. There's guys with a rope when they tie it to a thing so they can make circles. And it's just a big, you know, it's a hoax or it's a, you know, it's a practical joke or however they try to sort of explain that. That's really a common explanation, right? Yeah, it is. And of course, some of that goes on without.

doubt, you know. I think the longevity thing is interesting, you know, how long this has been going on. And also, you know, sometimes just how many there have been. And also that it's a worldwide thing. It's not, it doesn't just happen here. It's been reported now in over 60 different countries. I mean, the UK gets more than its fair share. But, I mean, they've happened in the US. They've been photographed documented. There's been scientific research on some of the circles that appear in the US. And so there's that too. Yeah. And then there's just, you know, how long do you keep doing this? If, you know, if that, you know, that's what's going on, you know, that there's never really any credit for it. Yeah. You know, it's not like you get a whole shedload of publicity for doing it.

And, you know, and that nobody's caught. You know, I mean, this is the biggest, you know, predictable crime wave, you know, in the UK in the summer, you know, and people are, are not, never caught doing it. So, you know, there's that too. And then also, you know, there are some pretty good reports of circles that appeared during daylight hours as well. So one of the one of the famous cases for that was a crop circle that was near Stonehenge in, I think it was 1996. It was a really big circle. It was like in the shape of a sort of a loose spiral and 151 circles it was made from. And it was like a Julius set fract. The biggest circles were probably about 70 feet in diameter and then going smaller and

smaller to maybe just a couple of feet. And the story goes that some tourists had taken a flight in a light aircraft over Stonehenge. They were over to see the stones and they flew out around about 5 o'clock in the afternoon. In the summer it's a lovely day. They flew over Stonehenge. The field is almost banged next door to it. they didn't see anything when they were going out and then 45 minutes when they were coming later when they were coming back they spotted this huge crop circle in the field and so you start to wonder well how is that possible you know and of course the pilots fly there all the time it probably wasn't the first time that pilot had been up that day flying and hadn't noticed anything either so that that it was just really intriguing how does that happen and yeah so they're and they were other ones as well, you know, but that's the most famous one.

Yeah, that would take a long time. I mean, you know, just to make something like that a couple of people, probably take the multiple days at least. And then to get the accuracy perfect would be. Yeah, that's the other thing too, yeah. Say one of the biggest cropsicles we ever had was it happened in 2001, a place called Milk Hill. And it was like a six-armed spiral.

And it was over 900 feet in diameter. and was made of 409 circles. And that appeared overnight. And it had been, the weather was terrible the night it happened. It was raining. The visibility wasn't good. But there was this crop circle there, first thing, the next morning, just in perfect, pristine condition. So, you know, when you get, you know, you can kind of understand the argument when it comes to some of the smaller ones.

But when you think about some of the really big ones, it kind of really does start to kind of stretch the credibility of an argument like that, I think. Yeah, there's just some local artists and there's some Picasso's out there, really. So much talent. So much talent. Yeah. Well, not just even artists, but I mean, and I'm sure we'll come on to this in a little while. But, you know, the geometry in some of the crop circles is just, you know, out of this world. And, you know, whoever does it, you know, it really is amazing.

what they do geometrically, you know, in the fields. Yeah, anyone is a graphic designer and spends time trying to design logos. And it takes a lot of circles and a lot of time just to put, you know, three shapes together in a way that's pleasing to the eye and mathematically precise. So 400 circles is insane, especially when you can't, you can't see what you're doing. It's in the middle of the night. It's impossible. And, you know, we did an episode on sort of that famous UFO battle.

I think it was in Nuremberg back in the 1500s. And, you know, we brought on a lot of guys who, you know, one specifically, like an exorcist was saying that all this UFO stuff is a modern phenomenon. We had to kind of tell them like, hey, you know, and actually, they've been documenting UFO sightings for a long time. What about crop circles? Do we have, you know, we've talked to our friend Travis from Giants of Ancient America, and they've been digging up giant skeletons for hundreds of years, and there was, you know,

reports of them for a long time. circle's the same. Yeah, there's a really famous woodcut that dates back to the 1600s, and it shows, it's called the Mowing Devil, and it shows a, you know, a devil mowing a circle in a field, you know, and there's a story that goes with it that the farmer wanted, you know, to hire somebody to bring his field in at the end of the summer. And, you know, and he was talking to some locals and they said that they wanted to be paid so much money for doing it. And he was outraged and said, oh, better the devil do it, you know. And then the story goes that he found this huge moaned circle in his field. So that's kind of, so yeah, I mean, there are kind of stories like that. That's the most famous one. But of course, you know, crop circles also are similar in some ways to lots of our ancient sites in the UK. So, you know, we have lots of stone circles here, the Stonehenge being the most famous, but the biggest is actually ivory.

and there have been so many circles around there. We also have what we call round barrows on the landscape, which are sort of like these little urban mounds, the Silbury Hill, which is in a very similar area as well. So there's kind of this connection seemingly between them. And even when they don't happen in the UK, when they happen abroad, there have been circles near Serpent Mount, I think, in the US.

And so, yeah, there's kind of this kind of love affair between ancient and these modern, which is kind of where the phrase temporary temples comes from. It's kind of like that modern comparison, you know, that here is sort of a modern day sacred site that sits alongside our ancient sacred sites over here. And that, you know, that's been happening this year too. Yeah, I was going to ask you about that, like your thoughts about why, you know, this is obviously doing 30 years of research what your opinion is, but the idea of these things show up near sacred sites and ancient megalithic sites. that are also very geometric, right?

That's one of the things is Nate and I really got into into things like Peru and Egypt and Sardinia, cyclopean architecture and all these different things that, the geometry is insane. It is beyond what we believe that, you know, what I think people assume or believe the capacity was as that type of technology, right? And so you have this really weird enigma.

And then in the same way, you have these insane sort of geometric designs and very intricate circles that are appearing in very similar places. I was just curious on what your thoughts are and perhaps why. To me, they're all connected, you know, in a sense that they are connected by, how would I describe it, a same canon of number and geometry. So, you know, many crop circles share some of the geometric properties of Stonehenge, for instance. And then, I mean, one of the things that I did in the 90s was to read the work of Schwala de Lubits, which some of you, which you may have heard of. He wrote this incredible book called The Temple of Man, which is about the temples in Egypt.

And particularly, I think it's Karnak is one of them. There's another one as well. But he spent years out there measuring and surveying Egyptian temples and came back with this. He wrote this magnificent book, which kind of showed that there was kind of like this canon of number and proportion and ratio that underpinned all of those buildings. And it was part of Egyptian philosophy. And we find it, you know, in other ancient sites. I mean, not just in Egypt. So I'm sure you guys must have read Graham Hancock and maybe Randall Carlson, you know.

So that's the kind. I mean, I was lucky enough to know John Michelle, who wrote the. really great book, The New View over Atlantis, in probably, I think, in the 1960s, he wrote it, but it was about this very stuff, you know, that he was kind of looking at particularly British ancient sites and finding that they were all connected in some way. And crop circles kind of dovetail right into that because they use exactly this, you know, so we find things like squaring the circle a lot in the crop circles. We also find pie and Fibonaut.

so far as well, and just done in the most crazy, fantastic ways, you know, that you would never kind of expect unless you were looking for them. I mean, you know, just like when you look at Stonehenge, there's a hidden geometry that you can kind of superimpose over the top of it. It's exactly the same with crop circles. Interestingly, with crop circles, there's kind of, it has a double side, so there's kind of like the exoteric geometry. So that's the stuff that you see immediately when you look at it, so it might be divided into three, or it might have a pentagram in it, so that would be five, hexagons, or six. But then very often there's an esoteric or a hidden geometry.

So when you actually draw them on paper, and you begin looking at the proportions between the different parts of the circles, you realize that there's all this kind of hidden proportions going on as well. But it's exactly the same kind of language, which, again, I just find utterly fascinating. you know, that there's this kind of continuity somehow. I mean, some people kind of talk about the idea of, you know, a universal quantum holographic kind of design base for the entirety of creation, which is a really nice idea and that's something that nature subscribes to. But, you know, the fact that, you know, our ancient ancestors were somehow aware of this,

you know, is interesting as well. And that it was clearly important to them, you know, that they would build these huge temples or these stone circles, you know, clearly things that were meant to last, you know, or to pass on down knowledge through the ages. I mean, crop circles as well have been linked to astronomical phenomena as well. You know, we've had cropsicles that, I remember one year we had a transit of Venus, you know, where Venus goes across the front of the sun and you can see the little shadow that we had a crop circle depicting that we've had.

There was one a couple of years ago. We had a partial eclipse in the UK. There was a crop circle that depicted that. So, you know, I mean, cropsicles are very varied in their imagery, you know, whether it's, you know, very classical geometry or so the astrological link. Or sometimes some of them are just images. Some of them don't even really seem to have, they have a basic geometry, but you can tell that that's not the emphasis of what's being presented. They're much more kind of like, you know, like, are. art or graphic design in the sense that they portray some kind of image.

I mean, I'm sure you've seen pictures of the alien face crop circle, perhaps, from 2002, which was fascinating as well. So, you know, I think within, you know, the whole gamut of crop circles over the years, they're presented with different things at different times. So they're not the same, but they kind of have this connective thread through them that kind of loosely connects them somehow. Wow. Yeah, I've seen that.

I've seen that crop circle. And I think a lot of people just think it's hoaxed or fake or Photoshopped, which is why I want to do an episode on this because. Yeah, I mean, I went in the alien face. Actually went in it on the ground. Really? There we go. Karen was there.

Yeah, so you were there. I was there. And it was just unfathomable at ground level. You just could not make out what it was at all. And I mean, that's true for a lot of crop circles. I mean, the average sides of a crop circle in the UK is about 200 feet in diameter. So they're not small. And, you know, they're not on flat ground either.

You know, people tend to think, you know, because when you see the aerial photographs, everything on the ground looks flat when you're coming down. But they're not at all. So that's a difficulty too, you know. But this, yeah, the alien face was fantastic on the ground. It was just, you had no idea what you were standing in at all. it was, you know, just, yeah. Karen, I wanted to ask you something because it reminds me in some ways of like the NASCAR lines

that you get in, where these things are really only, you know, viewable and sort of at scale from the air, which is really strange to me because, you know, we've only really been flying since the Wright brothers, right? So, you know, we're at maybe just a little over 100 years. And really, I mean, for all practical purposes, you know, really maybe only since like the 30s in a way that's significant, right? And yet these things are, these things are really only, as you say, you couldn't tell it was an alien face.

They're really only viewable from the air. And then you think about there's other things. There's other ancient things that are not in crops, right? Because crops, of course, are cyclical, right? So you probably have a crop circle season. You know, just like you have a football season or a baseball season or whatever it is. You have a season for these things because the crops have to be tall enough. But there are things across the planet that are ancient, you know,

that are only viewed from the air, which is bizarre. and then these, and I was going to say your opinion on maybe why that is, because if you can't, if you're not able to see it from the ground and we are, you know, we are, we are ground creatures, you know, we don't, we don't do a lot of, mostly we are. Yeah. Mostly, right? Yeah. Yeah, I mean, yeah, I mean, I, again, I think it's interesting that that, that, that's clearly the case, you know, that they are best viewed from the air. I mean, obviously some of them, you can view from a hilltop or a hillside or something like that, you know, you can get a look at them. But mostly, yeah, they are just meant to be seen from somehow meant to be seen from the air.

But I do think that that kind of, we get into kind of the levels of symbolism within crop circles. There's a lot of dualism goes on in circles. You know, the most basic ones is that the designs are made from standing and flattened crop. You know, so there's that one. Then there's the ancient, modern thing. You know, so you get your ancient sites and then these modern sites. And then, you know, and then there's also this kind of as, you know, being in the air and being on the ground. There's this kind of.

So, I mean, I think, and I also think, you know, they don't just serve one purpose. You know, they're really kind of multivalent in that sense that, you know, I mean, lots of people consider them to be kind of acupuncture points or maybe something to heal the earth. You know, lots of, I mean, indigenous people that have looked at crop circles are kind of said that that's kind of how they kind of see them, you know, as somehow they are either messages from the earth or that somehow they're involved in healing the earth in some way. And of course, and that, you know, dowsers have looked at crop circles as well. And many of them kind of pick up on, you know, earth energies, which again, you know, that connection to ancient sites as well. you know, whether, you know, people pick up, you know, who are sensitive can pick up, you know, earth energies too. So, you know, there's this kind of, yeah, this kind of dualism that goes on with them where, you know, they're kind of out of place, but they're also dovetailed right in to,

you know, the human culture and systems. So it is interesting. I mean, we're, Steve and I are very fortunate. We fly over the circles most summers. We get to see them from the air. And it's, you know, it's a killer experience, you know, it's, it's, I can't recommend it enough, you know, it's to see them from the air is to truly see them. I mean, the other, you know, I mean, just to mention that, you know, the other thing is that, you know, that we were talking about the geometry earlier. I mean, one of the things that gets talked about a lot is the, you know, the idea of vibration and, and the science of cymatics, Hans-Yenis, you know, cymatics. And, you know, how it was Swallow Dilubit's idea that, you know, the geometry used in the ancient Egyptian temples was used to create some sort of subtle energy or vibration that actually raised up the vibration of the human beings inside, you know, that it had a spiritual function.

And I think, you know, you can again make an equivalence with prop circles on that level too. You know, lots of people have incredible experiences inside of them. And I do think they are meant to be walked inside, you know, that very often the way that they're placed in a field, there'll kind of be like an invitation to walk inside. I mean, even the way that the geometry is done. So when you look at a crop circle, for instance, what you'll notice is that there are very few places inside it where you don't have access if you were to walk inside it. So you'll find that the geometry is actually slightly pulled out, that there'll be space.

between where you can walk around. A friend of mine used to call them hospitality port. But if you were to draw the geometry on paper, you know, the classic geometry, there'd be no separation because the lines would criss-cross. They'd create the pattern, but there wouldn't be the gaps. So when you're drawing crop circle geometry, you have to create the gaps,

which actually really difficult to do even on paper. So, yeah, I think that there's an element of that. I think they are kind of spaces to which we have an invitation. There's that, you know, that kind of invitational thing about them. And so, you know, and again, you know, thinking about them from the air, you know, that you've, there are lots of different kind of ways to interact with them and to explore them. And I think maybe there's something quite deliberate about that. Yeah.

Well, it's interesting because, I mean, you think about it like an ancient UFO sighting, you know what you're looking at. You're looking at something that's flying around. You don't know what it is. But I'm, I wonder if some of these ancient crop circles if they were going on back in that you wouldn't know as a farmer that what you're standing in and what it is because you can't see it. You can't see it from above. That's right. Yeah. I mean, sometimes the only time a crop circle is found is when the farmer actually comes across one in the field when he's about to combine it. You know, I mean, we've had to kind of, we've got the call and had to rush out to get to see one, you know, before it, you know, it's, you know, it's. combined. So, yeah. I mean, and also just to say it happens in all kinds of different crops, too. So it's not just wheat and barley, which are the crops that are grown most prevalent in the UK, but we have them in rapese, which I think is called canola in the US. They happen in maize, which is corn. We also have had them in things like linseed and beans and borage, which is kind of like a herbal plant that's grown in, which has these gorgeous kind of blue flowers on it. So they kind of, you know, sometimes you get them in just grass.

And we've had some in ice and snow as well. I mean, it's... Really? Yeah. So it kind of happens in all kinds of different mediums, but mostly in, mostly in crops.

Because I guess it's kind of a huge canvas, isn't it? Yeah. Well, yeah. I mean, you wonder if it's like just some teenage aliens just tagging, tagging the street. Street signs.

Well, you know, one thing we learn a lot is that the ancients built these things to last, right? We were in Peru. And why do you think, you know, you have these things that they've, they were built to last test of time? And these things just go away really quick. Why do you think they're dropping these designs? Again, I just think it's interesting, isn't it? I mean, again, I like to draw a comparison to sort of when Buddhists will make their sand mandalas. and they make these incredible, you know, intricate spiritual drawings that, again, they have a geometric component to them.

And then the whole point of doing them is that you wipe them away afterwards. And, you know, that somehow the prayer is released when the mandala is made. And I think, you know, maybe there's a similar thing going on here that it's, you know, that these, crop circles create some kind of, you know, vibratory field and that they're not meant to be for all the time. They're just meant to be there for a while. And also that the way that fits in, again, to the cyclical nature of nature itself. So, you know, the, I mean, in the UK, our crop circle season probably starts at the earliest in April. And that will be in Canola because that's the first, usually the first crop to reach sufficient height to actually hold a crop circle.

And then it will be followed by barley and then wheat and maybe May is at the end of the season. And it would normally finish in the UK maybe about mid-August, something like that when the fields come in. So yeah, I mean, again, it's just one of those interesting sort of questions. But I like the idea, you know, that somehow that they're not, that these are a kind of geometry and a kind of space that that are not for all time. They are kind of just temporary there for just a while. Temporary temples, if you will. Yeah, temporary temples, yeah.

You got some banksies in the sky over there, you know, just dropping them down. And, you know, we like to ask a lot of why questions on the podcast. You've been doing this a long time. What are a few stories that sort of stumped your, like, made you rethink things? Like, you know, we'll talk to people about Bigfoot encounters, and it sounds, you know, kind of whatever. Bigfoot's doing this thing. And then you hear these stories

where you're like, what? We interviewed a guy that said that he was in a cabin and something was projecting images into his mind. He could see through the eyes of Bigfoot out in the woods

watching him earlier that day. And you're just like, these are the stories that really go, what is this creature? Because it's not just, it's not just the ape that's walking around. He's doing things that, if these stories are true,

and I believe that they are, most of them, what are some stories that really have just made you rethink things. Well, I think like a lot of, you know, a lot of paranormal spheres, if you want to call it, that it, you know, it has its woo, you know. And so it's, you know, for me, that's the most fascinating part of it, you know, my own particular kind of research that I've done, I mean, I've done lots of things over the years. I took part in sampling, taking plant samples and,

you know, drying them all out and then shipping them over to the US. And I've done it, and all that kind of thing, but really my personal interests, A, in the geometry of it, which you've probably got a good idea of now, but also in the kind of the interactive side of it, you know, the side that is, you know, the woo side, the, you know. So right from the get-go, I was really intrigued by this because lots of people in the early days started talking about synchronicities that would happen in conjunction with the crop circle.

So very often you would hear stories of people saying, oh, I was driving past a field one day. And I thought, oh, wouldn't that be a great place for a crops over only for there to be one the next time that they drove by? So you hear that kind of story a lot. And even to this day, people will kind of tell you those sorts of stories. Then you will hear stories about, you know, how people discovered this whole subject by a whole series of synchronicity. So they were kind of drawn into it into it that way. Then you would have, particularly in the early days, you know, you would have researchers who, you know,

wanting to somehow categorize what was going on would kind of make little rules for the crop circle phenomenon. So it was like, you know, all crop circles do this or all crop circles do that or no crop circles do this. And then, of course, along would come a crop circle that would break the rule, you know, almost straight away. So there was that kind of thing going on. well. But the synchronicity side of it was really interesting. So in the early 90s, there were some

researchers that got together to actually try and look at that. Was there any way, A, we needed to be recording these things. You know, we needed to be, you know, keeping those stories for posterity because one day they might become relevant in some way that we don't understand now. But we also wanted to know, was it possible for humans to influence what was going on? So when you listen to people, you know, talk about how they felt that they had somehow been touched by the phenomenon or the connection to it, was it possible to kind of do that in reverse, you know? And there were several projects done in the early 90s to do with that.

And it takes kind of really, it took a very similar line to things like C-5 that goes on even now. When I, I think it was back in 1993, I did the same. C-SETI training back then. And because I, you know, crop circles were happening. There are also lots of UAP sightings that happened around the crop circles themselves. So I was really interested in that. I was interested in this idea of not being just a kind of a passive responder to what was going on, but kind of being an active participant in it. So I found that was really interesting. So we were able to look at that. And then we looked at things like where crop circles would have.

upon year on year. So it was there were there particular fields where crop circles would appear each year? There were one or two, not many, but there was a place near where I used to live where that did happen. So we kind of combined a whole load of things and kind of thought, right, let's get out there, let's get some cameras up, let's see if we can catch what's going on, let's see if we can somehow influence what's going on. So we use kind of visualization techniques. We use sounds as well because there have been sounds recorded, strange sounds recorded in crop circles as well. I think one of them is still used in the C-SETI thing now.

But, you know, so we used kind of combined a lot of things. And I had a small group with some friends. There were seven of us. And we got together one evening. And part of the work we were going to do is to do this short visualization where we walked along a tractor line into a field and kind of what would we find? That was kind of the visualization thing. So we've concluded doing that.

Everybody drew what they thought they had seen or intuited or whatever. And much to our disappointment, they were all different because we thought, wouldn't it be great if everybody drew the same thing? But that didn't happen. And then we did a crop watch at this particular field where there had been circles most years. And when we turned up to do that, actually the crop had failed in the field that year. So it wasn't even planted. But we decided to stay. We did a night watch.

And actually that night, the whole group of us had a UFO sighting. And we saw this kind of these two lights in the sky. They were really high up in the sky. And it was a full moon. And there was a larger light at the front, a smaller one at the back. And we watched this thing kind of go across the sky and go into the kind of. of the aura of the moon, you know, the light or that you get around the moon, and then didn't come out again.

Oh, that's weird. And one of our group was an amateur, astronomer, you know, was completely stumped. But so we thought this, what, you know, just what a great experience, you know. So that was fantastic. And then about a week later, one of the guys from the group gave me a call, and he was a bit of a joker, and we always liked to have a giggle. And he said, oh, there's been this massive crop circle reported. He said, and it's by the M1 motorway, let's go and see it.

And I thought he was pulling my leg because where I lived at the time, I didn't live in the South of England, which I do now. I lived in the Midlands. We did have Cropsockles there, but not really big ones. They tended to be quite simple, small ones. So I thought, I'm just going to, you know, I'm just going to go along with this, you know, just sort of call his bluff really. And he swung by, we went off for a drive.

And there was this huge crop circle right by the motorway. And it was in the shape of kind of like a crucifix. So it was kind of a long line and then a shorter one at 90 degrees. But then there were kind of circles and ringed circles on the ends. And there was this key shape. And it was amazing. It was a place called Charlie Noll in Leicestershire. And so we went and saw the farmer and said,

we've seen your crop circle. Can we come and have a look at it? You know, and she was really great, the farmer's wife. And she said, well, it's actually been here a week. No way. And we thought, okay, this is interesting. When did it happen? And so she said, well, it happened on the 7th of July.

So we thought, oh, that's interesting because it, you know, the 7th day of the 7th month. And there'd been 7 of us in our little group. So I'm thinking, okay, this is kind of interesting. So we get in, so we call everybody together and we go in there. And what we begin to realize almost straight away was that all the things that we had drawn in our visualization was somehow incorporated into this design. And it was a kind of really stop you in your tracks moment, you know, where you think, wow, what's going on here, you know. And it's interesting that, you know, I mean, one of the things we did that day was I called another friend who was a surveyor by profession. and he bought out his Theodolite and took a survey of the crop circle.

But when we got the information back home, because you kind of take all the numbers down and then you kind of transpose it into it an image, we couldn't make head or tail of the numbers. So that was another strange thing that happened. The farmer said the dogs wouldn't go in the field. That's always very interesting. You know, that animal interactions with,

are often very strange. I was in a circle in 2012 and the farmer's daughter there was, used to ride horses. And she actually rode a horse down the tractor line to come in, to bring it into the crop circle, which was huge. And, but the horse was having none of it. It ended up rearing up before it would, she had to turn him around and take him out of the field. So that's always interesting. So yeah, there was kind of lots of strange stuff going. on around this. And then the other thing was that when we looked at where we had done the crop watch and then where we had done the home where we'd done the meditation, that the crop circle fell in the nearest field to the center of that line. So almost straight away there was this, you know,

I mean it made the hairs on the back of your arms stand on end. It was, wow, you know, there's something going on here and that is beyond just, A, people stomping stuff down in a field and B, even just, you know, messages from aliens. If you want to think of it on that, there's something something so much more going on here. That's wild. That's just wild, though. Just think of literally when you were doing this exercise that on that day, everybody's designs are incorporated in the larger design. Yeah. That's just, I don't know how you make heads and tails of that. You wouldn't imagine. No, no, exactly.

And we were not the only people doing that type of work. There were other groups as well. And in fact, the day we did that particular crop watch, there was a group down in Sussex, which is right on the south coast of the UK. And there'd also been a group in Wiltshire who were doing night watches. And because there have been circles in Sussex, and there were obviously lots of them in Wiltshire. And we found out when we started. sort of chatting with each other, that we had all had the same UFO sighting that night

and described that the large light and the smaller light going into the moon and not coming out. So that, you know, that was, and in fact, one of the people on the watch in Wiltshire was actually my future husband. So that, you know. So, yeah. So, yeah, so again, you know, this gives you this idea that everything is connected. which is kind of one of the oldest spiritual teachings in the world, isn't it? You know, this idea that there's somehow this fantastic tapestry to which we're all connected somehow.

And I think, you know, the crop circles were showing us that in a, you know, in a very sort of real way. And, you know, it's interesting over the years, you know, just how much being involved with a subject like this changes you. Steve and I have just put the finishing touches to our latest crop circle yearbook, which we published. every year. And one of the things that I've been writing about in that is this idea about how, you know, crop circles can be considered a communication that, you know, that is kind of an initiation into a new way of thinking. You know, it's connect, for me, it's connected to, you know, an evolution in human consciousness and becoming aware of these things, you know, that this interconnectedness of things. And, you know, how everything kind of works together is kind of central

to what we're being shown. I mean, and not just in the Crop Circle world, but in many other, you know, I mean, even in the UAP subject, and I'm sure it happens in Bigfoot too, you know, that there is this idea somehow that things are connected in a way that we don't yet really understand.

Yeah, there's a lot of weird things. Yeah, I mean, I read an incredible book recently. It was a novel by a guy called China Miavil, and the book is called The City and the City. And the story is about the main. story of the book, it's a police procedural, you know, it's a murder story, but it's kind of it has this sci-fi setting where there are these two cities that kind of coexist side by side, but each is unaware of the other. And they are kept as well. Their societies are designed

to keep the knowledge of the other city away from the other. So even though they may go to work every day and sit next to somebody in the other city, they are psychologically trained not to see it. And if you do see it, it's called, in the book, this is called a breach. And it's a horrendous crime, as you can imagine, you know, in these dystopian side of us. But this kind of idea really struck me, you know, that what a fantastic metaphor maybe for what is happening in our world now that there is this, that there are these other dimensions or layers to reality, whatever it is that you want to call it, that coexist alongside with us.

And every now and again, we get a glimpse of it, you know, and whether it's. you know, Sasquatch or whether it's a UAP or whether it's a crop circle or whatever it is, ball of light, whatever, you know, that somehow there are times when, you know,

I don't know, the veil is thin or you're in a slightly altered state of consciousness and suddenly you begin to get a glimpse into a bigger and wider reality. Yeah. We talk a lot about, you know, frequencies, vibrations and things with ancient

construction and I wonder if everything has a vibration, a certain like frequency, right? And we as human beings, we can only see things that vibrate in our, you know, they call it dimensions and realms. What if it's just, you know, it's like playing a musical note when you can tell when it's wrong, but if someone strums our chord, we can see a big foot or we can see a UFO or we can see this thing. It's, it could be as easy as that because when you're talking about crop circles, I think about a lot of the videos people send us over the years where people send different frequencies and they put sand together and you create these crazy, they look like crop circles.

Yeah, they do. So, and you're talking about sound, there's this weird sound that happens around crop circles. Are they just turning up the speakers and then it just makes this design in the barley? Well, I mean, it's, that is completely optional, isn't it? I mean, you know, it's a possibility. The old barley boombox just crank it up. Yeah, I mean, you know, yeah, so you're talking about this. the science of cymatics. I mean, I was, I think I saw something today when I was scrolling on

the internet, you know, about that, is it that astronauts take up something that plays the Schumann resonance with them into, when they go to the space station? And the Schumann resonance is kind of like the vibratory kind of signature of the earth. And there's something about having that with them, you know, that that kind of keeps me. together on some kind of level, which, you know, which, you know, is fascinating. But yeah, I mean, you know, on a very basic level when you, I mean, geometry is vibration. So, you know, if you're looking for, you know, a definition, I mean, shape is a fundamental response to vibration.

So like you were talking there about, you know, people who take sand and they put it on a plate and then they might take like a violin bow and they take it down the side of the plate to play a note. and it will, the sand kind of springs into a geometric shape. And as you change the note or the vibration or frequency up and down, so the shapes change, I think they're called Caladne plates. And, you know, I think they first discovered this maybe in the 1800s. And then it was taken on to a whole new level by a scientist called Hans Yenny, I think in the 1950s, who began to use electronic equipment to look at this relationship.

And there are some fantastic videos, you know, if you look them up, look cymatics up, or Hans Eni up on, you know, on YouTube or whatever, you'll see that they even filmed some stuff, you know, where they would use something like Lipodium powder, which is a really fine powder. They'd put it on this plate or base and then they would vibrate it. And it would not just create geometric shapes, although it did do that, but also things that, you know, it would start to excite the powder. they would look like mountain ranges, you know, and maybe sea creatures. And, you know, and you begin to realize just how fundamental that whole idea is to the way that all a creation is made, including, you know, living things.

So, you know, it's so fundamental to the way that everything is put together. Yeah. I mean, that's the, I mean, that's a Genesis story. They spoke. It is. Yeah. They spoke creation into existence. So it's a sound, which, you know, is fascinating because, you know, I think that's, you wonder, like when we were in Peru, I was wondering if, you know, because they, scientists have been able to recreate levitation with sound waves now.

We've seen little droplets of glue and water. And you wonder if they had some sort of UFO technology to shape the stones, lift them in the air and put them into place that it's, you know, it seems so fantastical to us. but, you know, these are just these. You know, in our show, we've kind of talked about how there was sort of this angelic human mixing and knowledge was given to us. And it created a lot of, created a lot of weird stuff. And everything kind of got out of hand. I mean, which is a whole other podcast. But I think that, you know, these crop circles are fascinating because it seems like a language.

It seems like they're saying something like, hey, we're here. And I think a lot of times Luke and I are trying to get people to open their minds to the fact that we have evidence. We have Bigfoot tracks that can't be. We've got giant skeletons, reports for, and steps in stone. We have actual, you know, remains of these things. And here's these little crop circles, which can't be faked, all of them. Are they just saying, you know, you think it's just, we're here? We're flying around.

Yeah, I mean, yeah, well, I mean, on it, on its most basic level, yes, you know, is the answer to that. But, you know, but then, you know, we get onto this whole, you know, idea of, you know, the idea of a language. you know, through using number and proportion and ratio. Because, I mean, to do basic geometry, all you need to be able to do is to count. You don't actually have to do maths at all. You know, you don't need complex maths to do geometry. And in fact, a particular hero of mine was a guy called Professor Keith Critchler, who's written some fantastic books on geometry, you know,

said that the compass was the most brilliant. scientific instrument ever created by man because, you know, you can use it both to measure the world and then to create, recreate those measurements of the world. So, you know, and also, you know, I mean, going back to, you know, the idea of ancient civilizations, that these numbers all come from nature. So, for instance, you know, if we're talking about Phi, for instance, or the Fibonacci numbers, you know, those all come from nature. And in fact, Fibonacci is found in all living things.

So, you know, it's kind of like the calling card of life, if you like. You know, I mean, our human bodies are all made up from phi proportions. And, you know, we find it obviously in the natural world in plants and flowers and animals and so on. I mean, another friend of mine calls the Fibonacci sequence God's phone number, you know, because it's, you know, that's how ubiquitous it is in nature, particularly in living things. So all of these things, all of these discoveries were kind of made from people being really keen observers of nature. What they were looking to do was to walk in the steps of the divine as they saw it, to recreate the works of the divine as humans as an act of reverence or worship, you know, the idea of being at one with nature in the cosmos. I was going to say, do you see crop circles signs, like let's talk about Fibonacci, do you see repeating designs over and over again over the years? Are they like leaving? Are they particular to a certain design? Or are they always different?

They are nearly always different, but there can be variations on a theme. So, you know, I mean, from the geometry point of view, you'll get a single circle, so that's one. You know, so that that is all about unity. And then you get, sometimes you'll get two-ness where you might have two connecting circles or two parts to a design, but that's about diversity. And then you move on to the number three, which you sometimes see as a triangle or whatever, so that there's a tri-unity there. So, and then, you know, and again, these numbers are not just quantities. They also have qualities.

For instance, going back to the circle, it is number one. It's about a unity, but it's also about something that's indivisible. So it's, you know, and it's why for many ancient cultures, the circle was seen as a representation of the divine, because it was something that couldn't be divided, and it was something that encompassed everything. So, and then the square would represent the earth. So, you know, you have the four corners of the earth. Earth, and it represented the full classic substances, so the Earth, air, fire, and water, which the ancients would have been familiar with. But also, you know, it's about, you know,

creating a right angle. It's about building things in the world. So these things kind of have meaning too, but the meaning is kind of taken from the way that they are observed in nature. So this becomes a philosophy. I mean, you're talking Pythagoras here, you know, who taught taught these things, you know, thousands of years ago, and who probably learned them from the ancient Egyptians, who probably learned them from, you know. I mean, this is a philosophy that goes way back, but it's almost a universal kind of philosophy. So when you're looking at the crop circles, you're kind of looking at variations on these themes, kind of subtle variations on them, which are just fascinating, you know, and then looking at how maybe numbers are married

together. So if you, you know, many circle, many crop circles are patterns within a circle, you know, so there's a circular perimeter to them. So that's something about something being contained within something. So, you know, when you begin to sort of look at them on that deep level, you begin to realize that there's a really subtle language here that you can follow. It isn't like a code that you decode. You know, it's not like a lot of symbols and signs which have some kind of equivalent somewhere else and you have to, you know, do that. It's different to that. But it is, you know, it is a language. I mean, there are many, you know, kind of speculative geometers in the world today that just study the way, the philosophy behind the ways in which numbers come

together. So, for instance, one of the numbers we sometimes see in crop circles is the number seven. seven is known as the virginal number because it doesn't mix with other numbers geometrically. You know, it's not like, say like four and eight would marry really well together or six and twelve or even six and eight can marry or six and four can marry, but seven is kind of on its own. It doesn't marry. And when you begin to look at myths and legends to do with the number seven, you know, you begin to realize that this, again, this is that thread, that golden thread that

that kind of connects those ancient times to what's going on now. So, you know, again, it, you know, it becomes so interesting when you, you know, start to look at this. I mean, one of the things that the crop circles do force you to do is to become what a friend of mine called a noticer of things. I remember once I, he was a really great friend of mine and he used to speak at our Crop Circle conferences. He's sadly passed now.

I remember once introducing him and saying, you know, I called him a mark. Master Geometer, because he was, you know, he was great. And then I got told off then. He said, I'm not a master geometry. He said, I'm just a noticeer of things. And I just thought that was so wonderful because that's what this kind of stuff forces you to do. It forces you to look at things. When you're presented with something that's seemingly impossible, it kind of, you know, it opens

your mind and, you know, and you begin to look at the world in a different way. And as a consequence of that, human consciousness changes. So, you know, I think all of this stuff, you know, is, I mean, we talk a lot, you know, in recent times about all the stuff that's going on with the UAP thing. And, you know, and that interests me, you know, very much. And I kind of, you know, I'm a bit of a geek. I kind of like the technology part of it. You know, I kind of like all that stuff. But the big question for me is how open knowledge of all of that, you know, not.

just the UFO thing, but this idea that we live in a world that is so much wider and deeper than we currently understand, the effect that that will have on the consciousness of humankind. And it also makes me angry, too, when I think about, you know, how this may have been kept secret for years and how much that's held back human consciousness. Where would we be now? If those kinds of things would have been able to be open acknowledged much sooner, it kind of makes me angry and a little bit sad. But, you know, here we are. You know, we are where we are. It is what it is. But, you know, I think it's... A lot of fear. You know, to me that, yeah, that to me that the big thing, you know, again, people talk about, oh, wouldn't it be great if we had, you know,

flying source of technology or whatever, you know, and I'm thinking, wouldn't it be great if we just really understood much more deeply what it was to be human, you know, and, you know, and that we're not alone and that there are other intelligences. out there. Yeah, I mean, that's, that's kind of how what you're describing is how my mind works sometimes because you were talking about the number seven, and then you were seven people, and there's, and then you see this crucifix and, like, crop circle, and it's like, well, that

seven is a biblical number as well, so you're like, wait, what is what was going on here? And one of my last questions for you is, you see these crop circles and you see the way that they're made. Is there like a different technique to how the crops are pushed down or men? added in different circles, or is it all the same? You can tell right away, this is the same technique, this is the same method, or is there like a different sauce per circle?

Yeah, I mean, yes, and the answer is yes and no. So one of the things that you realize pretty quickly, well, in the early days of the circles, when we just had circles, the, the, the crop would be laid down, and it would be there in a, it would be in a swirl, so either clockwise or counterclockwise. And, you know, some people think that the crop is cut. It isn't. It kind of just lays down. It's, and actually when you go in a really new one that there's been no real visitors to,

one of the things you notice straight away is when you walk in that you can hear the crop crunching under your feet because it's not actually, very often it's not actually laid right flat on the ground. It kind of the crop comes up a little bit and then it kind of bends over. So when you're walking around in it, you feel terrible because you're creating damage. And again, something people don't always know is that if the crops are still growing when the crop circle happens, so if they're still green and growing and nobody walks in there,

they will actually recover through phototropism. They will actually kind of stand up again. Really? And yeah, and it will be as though it was never there. That's wild. It is. And obviously as the crops mature and, you know, for the last, I don't know, the last month that they're in the field, they're essentially dead. They're dry and dead.

Again, that's different because they won't recover because the plants are essentially dead. They're just drying out in the field. And then the other thing that you'll notice in a lot of crop circles is that sometimes the crop is not just laid and swelled. Sometimes it can be woven and knotted. So some of them have like a basket weave lay in them. Some of the centres are swirled. Some of them and each one can be very different. And there's a really good friend of mine, a research called Dan Vidler,

who has this amazing website, which is called UKcropcycles.com.uk. And he actually has for years now gone in and photographed all these different types of things going on with the crops inside the crop circles. And if you're curious about that, I really recommend that you go and have a look at it because some of the things that go on inside of them are just as amazing as seeing them from the air. So my answer to your question is that it's kind of, there isn't one standard way. But some of them are beautiful. I've been in them and it just looks like water has run over the tops. You know, the crop flows sort of like water inside.

It's just incredible to see. Really beautiful. Yeah, they're not broken and they're weave together sometimes like a basket. Sometimes, yeah. Which is just kind of blows the, blows the, you know, a hole in that theory that humans just got some boards and stomped them down. Yeah. In that, in that vein then, like, I mean, 30 years in the field, you know, what's your theory on, or best theory on who or what is, is creating these? Or your most current line of thinking, because I'm sure it's probably changed. Yeah, that's probably the rest of question. Well, I just, I just think there is some sort of.

of connection with N.H.I. Non-human intelligence. And, I mean, for me, that my involvement with the crop circles has always been a very positive thing. It's not been a particularly scary experience. I've had some really high, strange experiences to do with this, including hearing the crop sickle sound in my house one afternoon. But, but, but. I, I, I, I think that, you know, where, to me, the cropsicles speak of, you know, this need to develop ourselves as human beings just as much as we're developing with technology, that we're not keeping up with that.

Our fascination seems to be ever more with technology and all of that. And this kind of offers us a different way of thinking about the world and our place in it and seems to me to be an invitation to kind of to improve ourselves a little bit somehow. So that's kind of my thinking about it. Well, appreciate you, you know, coming on our show and talking about all these things related to crop circles. That's been my pleasure. I'd love it if you could maybe send us a couple photos that, you know, are your most favorite. We can post it on our channels.

Yeah, no problem. And kind of get, give people some context to kind of what, especially that alien one. I've seen it so many places I probably could find it, but I, we'll do some posts about this. But can you tell people sort of where to find you and your website and your books and everything you want to pitch? Thank you. Well, yeah, I mean, our website is www.temporary temples.com.com.uk. And there's so much stuff on there. There is an image library of crop circle photographs that go all the way back to 1994, to the current season, 2023, which is just finished here. It's completely free to view. You can go and have a look at all of that. In some of the more recent years, you'll find some of my drawings and geometry analysis on there. as well and also our crop circle yearbooks which we've published every year since 1999 now and they are they're kind of just a collection of the best circles from each year i write some commentary text about it and about the circles and then some kind of my latest thinking about them so those are those are all in

there but yeah i mean just my just to encourage people to look and to spend some time looking at the images because they you know some of these the circles are just so beautiful you know they deserve to be seen and you know and if anybody's got any questions or whatever they can always email us through the website it's like my like my wonderful co-host over there he's just a beautiful man oh you flatter me Nate thank you no thank you yeah Karen thank you so much for this is this it's it's so fascinating I just I think the idea that there's this universal language and math is is even just at the most basic level is a fascinating sort of paradigm to enter into thinking about these temporary designs.

I find that part fascinating as well. So thanks so much for your research and for spending time with us today. Yeah. So, so very interesting to try to unpack some of these mysteries, as you say. Well, thanks very much. And it was lovely to meet me. Yeah, thank you so much. Is the UK the most concentrated crop circles in the world?

I think it is. Yeah. Yeah. I think it is. Yeah, but I mean, you know, we have them all over Europe as well. They've been reported in Japan, in China, I think, US, you know, all over the place. Brazil, I think there was some in Brazil this year. Australia.

Wow. Well, our listeners are going to like this and appreciate it and there's lots of ponder. Just when you think you get more knowledge of what's going on, it just gets weirder. You have more questions. Well, Karen, we'll post this and we'll be promoting it a lot. probably come out next week and we're kind of on a UFO string right now. So we'll keep it going. Yeah, there's a lot going on.

There is. Yeah. Kind of world at the moment. So, yeah. Yeah. Well, have a wonderful night. I know it's nighttime over there in England.

Yeah, it's getting dark here. Yeah. Well, thank you for your time. Yeah. Yeah. Appreciate it. Yeah. Okay, guys.

All right. Cheerio. Cheerio.