Blurry Creatures - EP: 199 UFOs, ANGELS & GODS with Ali Siadatan

Episode Date: October 18, 2023

Ali Siadatan joins Blurry Creatures for the first time to discuss the modern-day UFO phenomenon and its connection to the biblical narrative. Ali is the founder of Think Again Productions, a multimedia teaching ministry shedding light on the mysteries and treasures of scriptural knowledge and its correlation to the events unfolding in this generation. After an up-close UFO sighting on the road to Isfahan in his home country of Iran, Ali looked deeper into the modern-day UFO phenomenon. The further down the rabbit hole he went the more he discovered an astonishing – mind-blowing – paradigm-shifting tale that needed to be told. That was the birth of his documentary "UFOs Angels & Gods" which was released in 2006 long before the days of the proliferation of YouTube. Join us for this more than two-hour conversation where Ali connects a number of difficult concepts we attempt to unpack on the show. How do angels travel? How can we process the UFO phenomenon through a biblical context? How are the gods of the golden age, the hybrids, Nephilim and the chariots mentioned in the Bible all connected to this topic? We cover all of this in the context of the historical and prophetic narrative that defines the cosmic tale of the Bible.  Guest: https://thinkagainproductions.com Support the show! www.blurrycreatures.com/members Socials instagram.com/blurrycreatures facebook.com/blurrycreatures twitter.com/blurrycreatures Music Kyle Monroe: tinytaperoom.com Aaron Green: https://www.instagram.com/aaronkgreen/ Outro Song: TimeCop1983: timecop1983.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

So often people email us and they have this story. They're out in their woods and they're looking in the bushes and they go, what's that? And when you are pouring your dog food and your dog's bowl, that's the last thing you want to say. What is that? What is this stuff coming out of this bag? You know, I don't think a lot of us think about maybe what we feed our dogs. And that's why we partner with rough greens.

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Go to Rough Greens.com and use discount code blurry. That's RUFF Greens.com discount code blurry. Rough Greens makes any dog food better. Listen, Luke, we know that we live in a world where everything is fake, fake food, fake clouds, fake news, everything's fake. And you know what? You get tired of it. And you're just like, if I want to buy a shirt or something nice, can I just, please give me something real. Quinn's is an amazing company that does high quality everyday essentials.

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And, you know, right, I don't want to reduce it to that. But I don't want to go with the Gnostic magical spiritualization. That the world of angels is the world of magic, a world of magic, instead of one that operates within the laws of God's creation because they are finite beings like we are. These angels, they appear differently to my mind. now than the magical creatures. They were beings who knew more about the laws of creation than we did.

We were now catching up. If we could break the atom into and deciphered DNA was because this is the stuff of the sons of God. All right, welcome back to blurry creatures today. We got a long one, so we're going to make this pretty quick. You know, every once in a while we find some of these trailblazers, these guys that learn from Chuck Missler, and they see it. They see the blurry verse early on.

what a lot of people have come to see over the years via our podcast because we've gotten a lot of emails and you know heiser inspired our guest today as heiser inspired our podcast and ali seotatin did a documentary in 2006 called UFOs angels and gods and really this should be like three-parter because he was it was so packed full of information but it's kind of cool to find these like pioneers in the space and we all kind of came to the similar conclusions. Ali's way smarter than we are, but he did a lot of research and he kind of sort of uncovered what a lot of people just, I don't know what happens. They just jump over it. They dismiss it. They don't want to look at it. They don't understand that kind of what we've been hammering home over the last couple years with Tim is the physicality of other realms.

You know what I mean? That's a lot of where we go in this episode. It's a really good one, really fascinating. I'm excited. And it's just, it's really an honor to have Ali on because this guy it's with all the classic stories native of someone having an encounter and then it completely changing their their paradigm to the point where this is it becomes the thing that they're trying to figure out and unlike you know not unlike what people have when when they encounter creatures right or a UFO if you've watched encounters on on Netflix some of the people that have these UFO counters they spend the rest of their life trying to figure it out yeah yeah and to all these credit I mean he

figured things out before you know before a lot of folks really really did did. And he connects some really good dots here. He's a meticulous researcher. He was doing research before the internet had answers. He was doing it by books. Before YouTube was even an... Before YouTube was the thing, he was putting his dock up on Google. And such a fascinating story and episode that really connects a bunch of dots that we have really hammered on these dots individually over, you know, almost 200 episodes. But this is a forerunner. This is one of the guys that that was, you know, decades ahead of the rest of us, really, you know, us included, Nate, in expanding our paradigms to understand, like you say, the physicality of things and the,

what the scripture said. Like he can connect UFOs, Bigfoot, abductions, sons of God, the Nephilim. He can connect all these things, right, where a lot of people just don't know how to connect any of this stuff. He reminds me of an ancient writer who read everything of his day, right? And that's what you have to do to make sense of the world. And I think the biblical writers knew everything and they read everything. And Ollie's one of those guys.

And this is kind of an old throwback to like early blurry days before anyone listened to our show. We were doing like three-hour interviews. We got another long one for you. Even though it's like one of our busiest weeks ever as a podcast. Here we have a three-hour interview. But thank you so much for listening to this podcast and those who have come on board to support the show. Blurraycreatures.com slash members. So many members make this happen.

because here it is almost 10 o'clock at night. We're trying to get the kids to bed. But we're working nonstop. Blurring. Blurring until midnight. So you guys make it happen. You make the blurry wheels go round. So head over to the membership if you haven't sponsored the show yet.

And let's get Ali on the show. I'm excited about this. The history of our earth is so different from what we can imagine. It's a Smithsonian. If they found out about a large skeleton somewhere, was to go get it. I'm going to assume at least one person is right, because if one person's right to bust the paradigm,

it all goes back to the fallen chair. And the problem with the modern day church, they have a very truncated view of the supernatural. This backdrop that's just pregnant with all kinds of meaning associated with this Mount Hermon event. And this guy defects from the kingdom. That's a big deal. Welcome to blurry creatures.

Allie Ciotitin, founder of thinkagain Productions.com. You produced a documentary, a groundbreaking documentary called UFOs, Angels and Gods, and that's right in our wheelhouse. We talk about all these things. People who like to get weird to talk about UFOs, aliens, Bigfoot, Sasquatch, Mothman, you name it, but have a biblical worldview. That's kind of where blurry creatures lands, and there's lots of blurry creatures out there,

as we've found over the last three years or so. So welcome to blurry creatures, Ali. and thank you for having me guys I'm really looking forward to our conversation yeah yeah we kick it off with what are your thoughts on bigfoot what do you what do you think about the big guy in the woods you know until recently I hadn't thought about it much just more like one of those things that may just be you know a story that people tell but then lately it really started to come up the surface and people start to ask me what I thought of it so I had to actually think of it. If I had to put it in a biblical context and if this is real and there's footage of it and I've seen footage, then I'd say it's one of the hybrids. You know, when you look at the

story of hybrids, we tend to think of the hybrids as just one type. Like there's the hybrids, you know, that ruled the earth throughout the ages, both before and after the flood. But there is different types of hybrids actually, especially in the modern phenomenon, which we may touch on later, there's different types of hybrids. And so it may be a hybrid, you know, if we were to contextualize all of reality in the characters the Bible provides for us. So there's, you know, God, the angels, man, and these hybrids and the evil spirits. So this is kind of what you got to put in one of these categories, then that's the category that I would assign to that, that it is a hybrid perhaps.

I think after Nate, we're 190 plus episodes in and we've been talking about this since episode one, Ali. So this is, I think we're a lot on the same track. You know, you talk about remnants or you talk about,

there's too much weird things around this creature, right? You have enough stories that sort of lend itself to not be some giant ape that runs around. that we just really can't seem to nail down or haul out of the woods, right? And as Dr. Michael Heiser famously said on our show, if one of these stories is true, it breaks the paradigm. And you have to sort of find a way to incorporate this into your worldview.

And so I think that's a good answer. Yeah, it took me like 30 episodes to get to that. Well, and then Nate, you did 10,000 hours of listened to Bigfoot podcast before we started this podcast. So you came in with a pretty good requisite knowledge, if you will, of the big guy. The Bigfoot camp, they don't like, it's weird. They don't really like to talk about Bigfoot being a hybrid. They think that Bigfoot is his own animal. They don't like any of the paranormal stuff associated with it.

So you don't get a lot of the biblical hybrid nephalum talk in the traditional Bigfoot space. And it wasn't until Heiser and some of these other guys started talking about the Nephlin. I was like, wait a minute. I had the same train of thought. thought and I was like I got to we we got to start this podcast because there's there's something weird here with this this whole history which I'm sure you're going to get into in this episode of you know biblical history it's kind of a lot of Christians are not aware about it and you grow up in the church and all of a sudden you start getting a little older ask some harder questions and then you find these these people

that have devoted their lives to kind of uncovering these these difficult topics like the nephalum hybrids UFOs aliens so welcome welcome to the show We'd love to get into it. Your story, how you kind of got into this space. And everyone, a lot of people get into this space because they have an experience. They see something. And then it's like, okay, my life has changed. I cannot go back.

I'm out of the box. I cannot go back in. Yes, like you open the door, you can't close. Yeah. But when you've seen, you can't suddenly close and walk away. With me, the story started in 1996, 1997, I was attending kind of Bible study. You know, it's through the small church that had brought me to faith in Christ. We had a weekly Bible study.

One day, you know, the teacher comes in and sits down, and he's really uncomfortable, was kind of wiggling around and looked at him and about his body language. And I thought, what's wrong with him? And then so we prayed and we started the study. And he said, you know, open your Bibles to Ezekiel chapter 1. And we read the vision of the prophet Ezekiel by the river Sabar. And he said, we know, wanted to draw it out. He took paper and he said, just imagine what he's saying, listen to the words.

and draw it. And then he kind of suggested, what if, you know, this throne of God is something that carries the Lord to this place? And what if there's a connection between, you know, this idea of angels coming and going to the earth and this whole, you know, UFO phenomenon and people talk about this? And he said that he was holding that in his mind for years and he struggled about sharing it with us, but he felt compelled to do it. And he kind of let it. let it go. And that really piqued my interest because I'd come to faith in the summer of 1991 and had spent the first few years figuring out what had happened to me and what was the Holy Spirit and who was the Messiah and why is it that I'd had this experience and understanding, you know,

the Old Testament and the Old Testament and the whole center of spiritual transformation, like this idea of, you know, the veil being removed and the spirit coming into a person, which is what I'd experienced, but I wanted to understand why I hadn't really turned my mind to the study of angels. It was something that I just assumed as an article of faith at this point. There are characters in this book. There are stories, yes, you see them do this and do that. And there's one that sits on a tomb of Christ, as he opens it, and other ones bring messages. So that kind of, but just, you know, it wasn't really a focus. But this really sparked my interest. And I thought, hmm, that's an interesting idea. And I asked.

and whether there's anything I could read. And you have to understand that in the 1990s, there wasn't a lot to read from, from a Christian point of view. So we were reading essentially You mean about UFOs? Yeah, about UFOs. Like, no one had written a book or they mean there was some, but like, hey, there's a, there might be a connection with this on the Bible. So, you know, there was a biblical view, Christian view. There was, it was very sparse. Yeah. So we had to kind of go look inside of the writings of other people that may have, we're not Christian, but they may have made similar connections between other religious traditions and other myths and, you know, whether I'm not, you know, and just be critical and see if there's any information we could

extract that would help us in our biblical search, you know, into all of this. Like, you know, you might read the chariots of the gods by von Gogh, because that's the only thing that was, you know, he was like one of the guys, the ancient astronaut theorists, or there were several of them. There was a whole slew of them. They each had their specialties, accuracy, and obviously was very famous and all of that. And we didn't care for adopting their paradigm or their perspective. It was more about sifting through information using them as a dictionary.

Like they had found stuff. And then we're like, hey, yeah, they found something interesting here. I mean, let's, you know, does that, how does this fare in the light of the Bible? So I started to look into it and it was interesting. And then in 1999, I had this compelling thought that kept coming to my mind, which was, I need to go to Iran and see my dad. And my dad, my parents were divorced when I was six years old and my dad never left. And he had remarried.

And I had this, I just, you know, go see my dad. dad and tell him that there's going to be apparently there's a possibility that according to this role of this prophet Ezekiel there could be a war between Iran and Israel and should this war ever occur even though he can't do anything about it that he should at least disagree with it in his conscience and this was my message for my dad he kept coming to me like a toe like just like a heartbeat like I'd be walking in a street walking he just this idea kept popping into my head. And so eventually it called my attention. I'm like, okay, this is from the Lord.

Like, I wouldn't naturally have this thought. And so I decided that I was going to follow through and go and deliver this message to my dad. And so I had, you know, I had the Christmas holidays and I had time off. So I booked a flight and I went there. And we came home from the airport. By time you get home, it's like 6 a.m. You know, you land there like at 3, 4 in the morning. By the time we go through customs, airports are going to ask.

hour away. So like six a and we were in there and and usually because time is limited, you know, you only have a couple of weeks. You tend to get into things right away. And I said to him, you know, that there's something I want to tell you. Like, what is it? And I told him that, you know, that this, this was, this was the message. And he said, well, thank you very much. You know, I appreciate, appreciate that. I'll keep that in mind. And the wife was just like kind of standing there listening. and then it's like, okay, maybe we should go to bed. And I thought of myself, well, that was kind of non-climactic from, for some people, I believe, you know,

that I'd come to deliver this message, and I would say this, and then there'd be like these sparks, and he'd go, oh, ha, ha, what? And I'd be like, yes, but no, it was more like, okay. And I was like, wow, maybe I heard wrong. Wait, Ali, is your data, is your data believer, or is he a follower of Islam? Well, that's a great question.

He was like an agnostic. He just believed in God. He was more... I lived a libertarian life. And just, you know, in the background, kind of believed in the existence of a God, but lived in libertarian life. So then what happened was the next day,

I'm in the room, and I hear them call me, and they go, come out, come out. And I had mentioned that the previous night, that this war may involve of Russia. I told him that because, you know, I was following Cyrus Schofield, who was a dispensationalist teacher at the Schofield Bible. And in Schofield, in this prophecy, Ezekiel 3839, mentioned that maybe Russia would be involved. And I thought, okay, I mean, there's a whole way in that conclusion.

And so I just mentioned that. He said, come out, come out. And I went out and they're watching the news, and a Russian officer, general, had come to Tehran, and Iran and Russia were signed a military pact. they've signed many military packs, even recently since the Ukraine war. They've signed more military pact with each other. And so for some reason, this clicked. And he said, didn't you say Russia would be involved? I said yes. And somehow, I don't know, that moment they were both like suddenly became super curious. And my dad said, are you telling me this book tells the future? I said, yes. And he said, well, that could be very good for business. I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll

listen to, you know, what, like, you know, like, here I am bringing you a message, you know, eschatological importance in my dad and living under this time of Republic. And he's like, well, that'd be good for business. So it's like you brought, it's like you brought back the sports almanac in back to the future too. You're, he's like, I could, I could use this. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. And he's like, okay, so they sit down and I so I start to will open up, you know, that prophecy to them. They get very curious. They get really moved and they want to know everything.

They get very thirsty suddenly. And we start going from Genesis, like the story of Adam and Eve. And we build it up. I mean, I do everything in the story of Israel, the covenants, the messianic prophecies. And by time we get the Gospel of John, we're reading it now by chapter. And this is all we're doing now all day, like morning to night and like having dinner and going until we can sleep. and by time you get to John chapter 22 they both asked to be baptized they can't take it anymore and my dad's like how is it that these people didn't believe it like he's talking about the jewish

people they was preaching to that kind of thing so i mean that was just his you know very youthful like you know a moment but he was very excited and they both got baptized in the bathtub of his house and i was like wow this thing really went much more than i had this this be worked out. Yeah. And so at that point, they said, you know, why don't we draw, why don't we go to Shiraz, because that's where my dad is from, that's where his wife is from, and that's where the larger family lives. So this was a capital of Tehran, and Shiraz is about 11 hours to the south by car. And it's going to road trip. It's very, there are more accidents in Iranian highways than any place in the world statistically. Not only, no one's kind of follow the rules,

of driving. It's not something that people follow the rules of driving. They have their own rules. Yeah. And you actually know it. Like one of the times that I went there for the first time, you know, he came down this steep street, which was his street that lives on top of the hill. And then he turned left. And suddenly I realized that it's a one way. And all these cars are coming at us. And I was like, what are you doing? And the cars just like a river went around us. And he went through. He said, you know, this wasn't a one way. This used to. This used. to be a two-way. And they decided that this chunk of it is supposed to be a one-way. And we just don't agree. It doesn't make sense. So we all take it as a two-way. And they know and I know and we all know.

And I can just boom. And so it's kind of like that, right? Yeah. The rules of road are negotiated between the people. And you've got to be in the no. It's there, you know. Sometimes it feels like when you get that phone bill, it's like the crash site document. You can't read it.

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Cement mobile for details. So, like the highway, it has to do with speed limit. No one follows any speed limits. So people are driving super fast, like very fast. Like full, it's like the automobile. And so if there's an accident, really people don't survive. So he said, you know what, why don't we drive after midnight because the highway is more safe?

I had in passing, just in passing, just as we were kind of reading the Bible, and we talked about angels, I just like throw an idea out. I said, oh, by the way, there might be a connection between this whole thing and angels. Just like literally one sentence, like one statement. And then we just moved on because that's still, like, there were article of faith at this point. They're part of the Bible. And you're talking about UFOs. Like there's a, yeah, yeah. Yeah, UFOs.

Yeah. Yeah. And so we go in the car and we drove, and the first leg of the journey is to Isfahan, which is the second largest city of Iran, and maybe it's three million people, and perhaps more, you know, there's no specific statistics. And then we're going to sleep there and drive to Shiraz. So this is the first leg of the journey, Tera on to Isfahan. It's well past midnight now, and we're now deep in the road. It's like an Arizona-type desert. It's like a rocky, stony desert. It's not like sand dunes. There are no street lights.

There's just the light of the odd car that may be going. It's just us and the starry nights. And then there's like villages, which are essentially pit stops. There's always a restaurant that's open 24-7 for travelers and a gas station, that kind of thing. And so I have my back to the passenger door. My dad's wife is driving and he's sitting in the middle of the back seat. and I'm talking Bible to them. I'm just, I'm on a roll, and I have two weeks,

and I'm just giving them all the information that I humanly can, and they're very thirsty, and they're drinking it like, like they have found, you know, an oasis or something. And suddenly my dad's wife, she points out the window behind my head, and she goes, and I'm just so caught up in what I'm saying, that I'm not really paying attention. And my dad looking at me, you know, he notices that. So he turns around and says, Nemo, what's wrong?

And she just keeps doing that. So he then turns around. And next thing, you know, they're both doing it. And they're going, oh, dude. And I'm like, what's wrong with you guys? So I just kind of sit properly in my seat, just what they're pointing to. And there is this large, large spherical object. It would be like a three, four-story residential building.

Wow. That's a block wide. This thing is huge. And it's slowly coming down and it's glowing with a pulsating green light like that. I can see structure. I can even see what, I don't know if there are windows. I can see structure. And I can see it all around it.

There is a multitude of green lights. I can see the green lights that are everywhere, and that's why it's pulsating green. And slowly coming down, I'm like, oh, this is a helicopter. I'm like, no, this is not a helicopter. And it's slowly coming down, and then it's perpendicular to the car, and this black tube comes out of the ground,

and it's the same color as the desert night. If you weren't so close to it, you wouldn't see the cylinder itself. And this thing goes right on top of it, and it goes into the ground, and it's just a severe. It was slowly coming down. And it went down.

Into the ground. Into the ground. I mean, how close? Ali, how close is this to you as you? I mean, you guys are still moving. Did you stop the car or you're still driving? Yes, we're driving. How close is this?

How many, you know, it's hard to say how many feet it was. Maybe 500 feet. So like 100 yards, like a football field, maybe away? Yeah. Yeah. I could see, I could see. I could see. the tube, I could see how wide the tube was, I could see the tube come out, and then I could

see this thing go on top of it and go down with great clarity, and I could also see that the tube was just as black as the desert night. Like, if you were not as close as we were to it, you wouldn't see that tube. That's wild. You say it's like four, probably, you say it's a city block or four city blocks? Yeah, like half city block. It was huge. This thing was huge. and it had levels and I could I could kind of see that hey it has levels

wow did it go it was so wild or yes on the tube it went on the tube it went on the tube and then the tube

went in the ground and disappeared with it you know like I don't know the technical you know detail what happened up there it came out of this thing

had like an angle of descent with hindsight and like when you're landing a plane it was kind of coming like this and then the tube came up and then it was just right on top the tube and then just like that like that in a like that the tube went down in the ground like quickly like that how long do you think you were watching it i don't know maybe 12 12 to 15 seconds

very quick and what is that that's so and it's just gone and gone into the desert there's nothing yes and then my dad's wife suddenly yelled out this is a sign from god to tell us that all that Ali's saying is true, like about the Bible and the gospel and Jesus and all of that. And then she's like, did you see that? He's like, I did. And I just, I just like silently sunk into my seat, even though, you know, the idea had been introduced to me. Even though, you know, I had part, you know, I just kind of basically looked, looked at it from the outside, traced it with my mind by reading a few books.

But this suddenly made it very real. and that wow and you know you kind of go in a state of shock the truth is you don't start talking about it you don't start oh wow it's you know later when I became a researcher I realized that this was very common basically it was outside of the reality of people so they don't know what to do with it because it's outside of their common reality they often use like expressions like it was like a mintoes or like a ping pong table or a burger or hot dog because they have to use something familiar first to describe it but they don't know what to do with the information because it's outside of all the paradigms that we collectively

share with each other and so you're not like suddenly you know and then so we went to bed the next morning we woke up we're having breakfast and I thought aren't we going to talk about it you know when we're sitting the breakfast table and I realized that there was no opening about that so we went to Shiraz, and when we went to Shiraz, it would take too long for me to tell you the story, but I'll just make this statement because I want to stay on track with our conversation. But in Shiraz, it was incredible, just the way it all happened, a series of incredible events unfolded, and seven other people got baptized. Wow.

These little Bible studies that was doing with them, two of them became group studies as other people joined and this one woman also eventually came and she was devout like she wore the tent and all that stuff and her daughter got baptized and you know when she removed her hair a hijab she was shaking because that was the first man to have seen her hair as like as I baptized her but the mother it was it was incredible what happened when I came back they received dreams it was an incredible it ended up being an incredible trip. I was so glad that I answered the call of God to go there. All these baptism, this UFO sighting, you know, that ended up being the trip. So when I came back, I, you know, then I just dove into the research like, you know, head first. And now I was, you know,

seeing as believing, they say. And so I went on these websites to look at what people were saying. There was one, I think was called the UFO Research Center. which was people could put in their own sightings. And it was very therapeutic. I put my own. And I started to read other people's and now I could believe all of it. You know, it was like the shapes. They were seen.

It was just normal people, everyday people. And they were saying with the shape of it and where they saw it. And there was lots. It was the website divided it by geography. So I could see that in my province, Ontario, where I live to, there was lots of this. I was like, wow, this thing is real. Like, until here, I think I have. had a distant cultural relationship with it. It's like, you know, people coming, you know,

out of a trailer park, something, and saying that they were probed or something. Like, I know it sounds very uneducated for me to have had those thoughts, but I think that's where I was deep at some level, even though I was reading his books about the past. But still, it's like, you know, it's like, you know, you can't really get into it. It seems like that's your culturally trained that way. I realized now because, you know, I became a special, so I know the entire cultural story of how this phenomenon was presented the culture and the different cultural paradigms that North America has gone through vis-à-vis this phenomenon because it has changed since the late 40s. And now we're entering a new one. So I was essentially responding to the programming

that had received. And so I think the Lord kind of opened the door, you know, when Elisha prays to God and says, you know, open the eyes of my student here so that he can see the ones that are with us are greater than the chariots of the king of Assyria who are pursuing them. I think it's in Dothan. And so then the Lord opens the eyes of the disciple and he sees that they're surrounded by chariots of fire, Roshavesh. And so it was as though God wouldn't kind of like, you're going to be talking about this. And like he opened this window and he said, you know,

look at this, what's this? And so I think that's kind of what I had experienced. And so that got me into researching. I took the deep dive and the fruits of that research became this documentary that I released in 2006 called UFOs, Angels, and Gods. And again, the picking was slim as far as who you could interview. Many of the ideas were coming to me. So you see there's a lot of typing and narration. That's me.

I wrote all the typing and all the narration. that's mean inserting the missing links because there's no one for me to interview who has these ideas. I'm literally, you know, coming up with that. And so when we released it, it was on Google Video, which was kind of the ancestor of YouTube. YouTube belonged to these young, 20-year-old kids, three of them, and they just beat Google. Everyone thought, okay, Google Video is going to be the big thing, not YouTube. And people were skeptical that you could even have video on in the internet. I feel like, I know internet is only for audio.

I remember those days. That's funny. A lot of young kids will never believe that. But yeah, like video's never going to make it. What are you talking about? This is not like the internet's a fad. Remember I remember the late 90s? Internet's a fad.

People aren't going to shop online. They don't trust it. Right, right. All these. It would take forever for a picture to download. You're waiting there and the pixelations would come. Like, buffering. At this point, I have a question, like, when you see this UFO, where are you at in this

journey of, you know, God opening your eyes to see these things? Because I think a lot of people have a similar story. These are thoughts of many years later. Like when I say to you, God opened my eyes, I see that with hindsight. Then I was just in a state of shock, like, what? This is real? Like, that's where I was at that point. And now I was going to, you know, look into the Bible.

for answers and it ended up being like a key like god had given me a key that opened the mythologized many passages for me in return and then in turn the bible explained it contextualized it shed light on it so there was a mutual relationship the key opened the door of semantic bites in the bible and then the bible in turn gave me the interpretation the understanding of what was gone who in these things were and where it was all going. Now, in the Bible studies that I was attending, I think there was a series of revelation coming to all of us as a group. And this had to do with the sons of God and the daughters of men.

They were like, okay, this is real. Like, there were actual Nephilim. And again, I looked up the word Nephilim. So I went to Yahoo, because Google didn't exist at that time. And I put in Nephalim. and it said zero search results found. Did you go to Altavista after that? I didn't go to Altavista.

Yes, I didn't put Altavista. Ask Jeeves. Yes. You know, it was the idea was that everyone in church engines would specialize in something. Like Altavis was the academic one. And Yahoo was like the Everyman search engine. And I was a graduate student at the University of Toronto.

So I had access to, you know, high speed fiber optic. They dug the ground. Bride an hieroptic. And so I was like, yeah, let's go. And I went there and I, you know, zero search results found. So I had to do my research through books and there was not a lot. I know I discovered with the word Nephilim men in Hebrew, like it came from Nepal. One day I came across Chuck Missler and he had a tape, an actual tape called Nephilim.

And I thought, wow, this day is talking about it. So I grabbed the tape and, you know, I learned a few things, but I already had figured out most of some. stuff that he had in a day, but still, I was like, someone's talking about it, and then he written a book called Alien Encounters, and I read that. It was great. And Chuck Nister, I learned so much from Chuck Nister. It was an incredible Bible scholar, incredible teacher. So my mind had opened up to the concreteness of angels through the story of the sons of God and the daughters of men by the chariots and the idea of flight or the heavens. This wasn't part the men you have thought, it was just about the giants and their, you know, angelic parents.

And Chuck did a good job of, you know, opening up all the passages where the sons of God existed. And one of them was the book of Job, I think it's chapter 37 or 38. I think it's 38 verse 7. It talks about how the sons of God tried out for joy when God created the earth. And of course, you know, it was clear that Adam wasn't here. So there was no line of Seth. That clearly was angelic. You know, that to me made it pretty obvious that these guys existed before we did.

The Sethites weren't there, you know, cheering, cheering on God when he made the earth. Right? Yeah. Yeah. I wrote a little song to remind you, choice hotels, get you more of the experiences you value. The Can Beer Hotels got it all. A rooftop bar, have a ball. Bring a date, your squad, or even your mom.

Book direct. at choice of tales.com. And so they, it was like pieces of a puzzle. Chuck in his book, he said he had one line in the book that stuck to me like glue. It said there may be a connection between modern day abductions and the ancient tale of the Nephilim.

And that stuff to me, like those words stuck to me. Like I knew I had to look into that. I was like, made a mental note. Okay, I'm going to look into that. And so then after I started to look into that phenomenon, on like modern day abduction. What's that? I mean, it just kept getting more and more weird. Right. And so I looked up and there was a man, Dr. David Jacobs was his name.

Yeah. Temple University in Philadelphia. And so I ordered his book and I was attending a kind of a Christian camp where you get a cabin in the middle of woods. You're alone. And you kind of spend the time in meditation and prayer. and I said, I'll take this book with me to read, not realizing that I was taking a book about demons, essentially. I had to read in the middle of the woods by myself. So I'm going up there, and I'm sitting at night reading this book, and as I realized that this is a very well-written book, these stories are very real, it's very believable, and it's dawning on me that, wow, these are demons, these are fallen angels. I mean, this is the Sons of God continuing into our age,

and he's documenting this. And, you know, kind of eerie to be in the middle of woods and to have these thoughts that there are demons around. And so by the time I finished that book and I was up there in that cabin, I was coming back to the main house and I kind of crossed the fence. And the idea just kind of landed into my mind

that the seed of the serpent mentioned in Genesis chapter 3, that this could be taken literally. But now that I see there were hybrids in the past throughout the scriptural record, but there are also hybrids in the present, and that it's possible that the final challenger, the final Goliath, who meets the son of David, that's a type of this entire story. Why is Goliath a descendant of the Nephilim?

Well, perhaps, you know, because the final one, the final Goliath, the son of perdition, is going to be the seed of the serpent. And I thought, I got to tell people about this. I got to tell the church about this. And then I met a gentleman and he offered that we do a documentary. But what happened is I met a gentleman and we were talking about life and about God. And he said to me, you know, maybe this whole alien thing is our only hope.

Maybe the aliens would save us. And I said, no, no, no, no, you don't understand. It's not what you think. And I sat him down and I told him what I believed. We talked about three hours. And I was done, he was in the movie business. So as it was done, I got out to leave. He said, look, if you want to make a documentary about that, I'll do it with you.

And so the next week, I said, yes, let's make a documentary. And Chuck Mistler was visiting our town. And I prayed to the Lord. And I said, Lord, if you give me Chuck to be a guest, I'll take that as a sign that you want us to do it. So I called his representative in Canada, Cade. And I said, this is one making a documentary about this whole thing with Chuck. We agree to be interviewed. He said, yes.

And then that's it. It just one thing, just so many things came together. The documentary was released on Google video and it went viral. It absolutely exploded. It had the equivalent of what in today's standards would be millions of years. And people were calling me from the whole war everywhere. Like Taiwan, Italy, all over the United States. I had a map.

I was offering it for free, but you could buy the DVD and I would have a map as to where a person bought a DVD. I was selling so many DVDs that I would come look up, the address says, go to the post office, mail it. By the time I get back, there was a whole slew of new orders. And so, even though it's free, and then suddenly, you know, the phone rang. And I'm like, yes. And the guy's like, I'm calling from Hollywood. I'm like, he's like, you got to take it off.

Take it off Google Video. We want to distribute it. And this is how we're going to do it. We're going to go. We're going to make these different versions. of it and there's going to be merchandising and we're going to get it everywhere. And I prayed about it and I said, and the Lord revealed to me that the internet was going to become bigger. And if the point was to get the word out that I should just leave it on the internet, someone knocked on the door

and I went to open it. It was my place of work, my studio. And it was a Catholic priest and two nuns. And I thought they were like, lost or something. And I'm like, you're all dressed up. And I'm like, yes. They're like, oh, we've come here to see you. We've seen your documentary. It just was wild the way it was received. I said, I put it up and you couldn't check how many views you had. You had to wait 24 hours. And so the next day I came, I logged in and it said 5,000 views. And that was a lot. I know it doesn't sound a lot for today, but in 2006 on Google Video, it was a lot. And I was like, wow, 5,000 here. And I came the next day and it was another 5,000 views. And he just kept going. And next thing,

No, it's 100,000 views, 200,000 views, 290,000. It just go. And it was a lot for that time. It became one of the most popular items at all of Google View. So when you logged into Google Video from the entire world, there were six things that appeared on the front page. It said most popular, and ours was one of them. And Google Video picked picture that would appear there, just randomly.

And the picture they had picked was a drawing. I had of the Magi's pointing to the star. I thought that was, you know, it was kind of a fitting, a fitting image. So if you guys want, I can tell you what is it that I actually found in the Bible. Yes. Yes. Yeah, absolutely. The piece of the puzzle.

So the whole idea of the chariots in the Bible, the chariot of Elijah, for instance, the term is Rethev, in Hebrew, which means to carry. That's where the root word RKV means to carry, something that carries you from A to B. It actually means vehicle. The reason it was translated as chariot was because until the modern era, there was no other vehicle but a chariot. So people just translated it as chariot. But actually it means something that carries you from A to B. And it is associated with the world of angels. Like it says, the Rechev Elohim, the chariates of God.

I think this should be translated as chariots of angels, but regardless, we'll leave it as such. Psalm 68, 17. The chariots of God are twice 10,000, thousands upon thousands. The Lord is among them in Sinai. So this is Psalm 68, verse 17. The chariots of God are twice 10,000 thousands upon thousands. The Lord is among them. Sinai is now in the sanctuary.

This idea that God aim with his angels to Mount Sinai, to deliver. deliver the written instructions, the Torah. And this particular insight that comes to David, I guess from the Holy Spirit, places God or with his angels and their Rechev. Or for instance, if you look at, everyone knows the story of the prophet Elijah going up in a chair, a fire, and horse of fire, and a whirlwind. That is the same term. Resev, there is the word fire added, Rechav.

or the story I mentioned of Elisha at praying that the eyes of his student open up, same word, refavers. When you look at modern day Hebrew, when they drew the first rail from Jerusalem to Jaffa, as Hebrew was resurrected as a modern language, they're like, oh, we don't have a word for train. So they went to the Bible to see what word they could find from which they could construct the word train. and they settled on this word Raph, the root RKV. That's why a train in modern Hebrew is Rikvat. It's the plural.

It means wagons, wagons attached to get Rukvat, many vehicles, these things that carry you, many of them. And when you look at the kind of the relationship between heaven and earth as portrayed in the biblical account, in the book of Exodus, in the book of numbers, Moses is shown heavenly things and told to create earthly replicas.

That's right. He's shown, you know, the temple. He's supposed to create tentative meeting, which is kind of a replica and other artifacts, even the candlestick things that are God says, and that he's showing it to him and then to him and the elders and build human replicas, like earthly replicas. And man, at the beginning of the story of Genesis,

is presented as the image bearer of God, which is in some ways like an echo of heaven. and the temple and echo contents in it. Moses sees heavenly things and creates human replicas. The fact that we have governance here, that there are laws here, the concepts of wisdom, justice, love, all of these are echoes of apparently heaven.

Authority here because there's authority in, you know, in the cosmic reality. There are laws that we have among us because God delivered those to Adam and Eve already had commandments to follow. So Earth very much is presented as an echo of heaven. And so even our prayer suggests that we want our life here to be aligned with the way things are in heaven. The Lord's Prayer, right?

Yes, the Lord's Prayer. Exactly. When you're kind of looking at Christian tradition, you see that with the infusion of Gnosticism and Hellenistic thinking, which saw the spirit as the highest form of reality. Because the Hebrew God comes back in the flesh. Like in the Gospel of Luke, the Lord says, come and touch my wounds. And then he says, give me flu tweet,

and they give him milk and honey. And then he makes a statement that I, you see, I have flesh and bone. I'm not a ghost or a spirit. So he actually makes that statement. And I find that a lot of the, well, not a lot, but I find that there are things in the New Testament,

in the Gospels and the episodes, that later become antidotes to future heresies. And when the church is going to go away and make an error, there's a pattern of behavior that already began early on that is addressed by God, and that pattern will repeat itself, like this idea of this spiritualization of things. So the Lord is, there already is a spirit version of God. It's called the Holy Spirit. And there's the Father who inhabits eternity. But then there is the one who comes back in the physical,

from the dead. And there is the trans, you know, he's transformed the transfiguration. So there is more to his body, especially to his glorified body. His body is not like ours. His body is more like the one we're going to receive when we receive the glorified body. But nonetheless, it is inside of the process and sequence of time and space. It's physical, right? It's physical. It's physical. It's physical. I'm trying to walk this, you know, this fly along, you know, like, right, on these edge shells. Well, I mean, yeah, Thomas says, you know, and Jesus says, look at the hole, look at the holes in my hand. Like, touch them, Thomas, right? And they're there, right? So there's a, there's a physicality. It's, we've talked about in the show. Yeah, I'll go about, like, you know, the angels walk into Sodom and you have the angel of the Lord who wrestles with Jacob, and you have the angel of the Lord that sits down with Abraham and eats.

Yes. you go, it's not really the actions, I actionable items of an ethereal being. Yes. Yeah. So the process of it, and then there's the one, the angel that's sacked on the tomb of the Lord. Why would all the things that the Holy Spirit could reveal?

Sitting, the sitting, that's what I focus on. And so I have a section in documentary where I call it the physical danger, the chapter called the physical nature of angels. And I cover all the examples you gave. So you're right. you know, the one with Abraham and Saddam You don't hurt your hip if you're Jacob by wrestling with the spirit, right? Exactly.

That's an odd thing to have that. That's an odd thing to say, right? Yeah. And so when the Lord comes, you know, back from the dead, he also says, you know, that I'm trying to look for the passage quickly. He says that I have flesh and bone. He actually says those words, and I think there's a reason why they were put in there.

So what happened, Ney, is that, yes, first the Hellenistic thoughts came in where the Jewish religion was overwold. by the coming of the Gentiles into it, and they brought their own ideas in it. We see that in the seven letters that the Lord wrote or spoke, you know, and sent to his messenger, where he's talking about the infusion of all of this, you know, pagan thought in those very important cities where holy cities to the Romans, those seven cities. And so we see that these ideas come into the church.

And the Gnostics and the Greeks, their idea was that. that the ultimate manifestation of God would be spirit. So the physical was seen as a lower level. So suddenly, a dichotomy is introduced that I'm going to show you how it's built on, where the relationship between in heaven and earth is altered. It's no longer this biblical paradigm that I just presented, that we are an echo of heaven, that has got nothing to do with we are physical and they're ghostly.

But the Gnostic thinking puts that into place. Suddenly, we are in the physical realm. But more higher and mightier than us is a non-physical realm of God and the angels, these new characters adopted by the Greeks, but placed inside of their concept of the highest place that one could put these guys. But in the Bible, earth and things in it are a shadow of heaven. In a sense that if we make boats and cars to travel around, because somehow we're the sons of God, and we are echoing the way things are done in the heavenlies.

Yeah, yeah. We talk about that a lot. Like, you know, why were they building, why were they Nephlin building certain things? Where do they get this idea to build these things down here? Where there are mansions and castles in heaven, amalgoliths in heaven? Were they echoing that? Why are there these fruit trees described in the garden? Why are there's a manna from heaven?

Yeah, we talk a lot. Roads, walls, all those things that exist in heaven, right? It's geometry. Look right. Kane builds a city, you know, for his son. That means he chose that he understands geometry and architecture. Where did you learn those? Were they innately in his mind?

Were they taught by angels, Sim? Either way, the point is he utilizes those laws. So God's creation, God's physical creation, is a magnificent place. Only, we want to say on this note, one of the things I love about in the dock is that I think we haven't really even explicitly talked about, Nate, on the show,

is the effigies of angels with wings, right? Yes. The simplistic answer is that they flew. They flew somehow, or they traveled by flying somehow, and the only way to contextualize that was to give them wings. But the reality is, perhaps, as you were, were saying, and maybe I'm jumping ahead here, but the way that they get from place to place,

and the same way that we get from place to place, is traveling, perhaps, flying. It's a mystery. Where are they going and how they're getting there, but so far we can see that there are these things in vehicles in the Bible, and they exist outside of a window, because the Bible talks about real things, real places, real people, things who can dig out, earth, like Jerusalem, Babylon, we can archaeologically do these. go. We can dig them up. Yeah. Derek, we can dig it up. People that are real. And so it must talk about real things that we should be able to see outside of her window. So once I saw this whole thing, and I was like, where is this in the Bible? Suddenly this whole part of the Bible came to life.

As the Krispy Chicken Sandwich from 7-Eleven, people always call me loud. And I'm like, yeah, I know. I'm crispy. Did you expect me to whisper? If you want quiet, go eat some soup and reflect. Like, I know I'm a handful. I'm bold. I'm juicy. Throw some pickles and bar. barbecue sauce on me and baby I'm a whole meal. And with seven rewards, I'm just $4. Quiet. No. Krispy, saucy and $4? Very. Only at 7-Eleven. Valley through 62326 participating stores only while supplies lastly out for full terms. It's always been there. There's always been this relationship. There's been a physicality to the, to the quote, spiritual realm. And most people reject Genesis 6 just because they don't believe that angels have, you know,

male body parts. Here you go. Here you go, Nate. Or they say something crazier. They say, oh, angels just take on whatever form they want. And I'm like, okay, so they're what? Are they're wizards? It's totally made up.

Here's something scarier. The angels are called the sons of God, and we are called the sons of God. Why are we compatible genetically? How is that possible? Could it be that God, who has no form and is beyond all reality, entered first became physical. He manifested as the angel of the Lord. And then he created in that form. And he created from himself, us and them. So there is a compatibility because both of us we have a common source. And so would that imply that, you know, God has a breathed his

spirit into Adam, the neshima. And Adam became a fine and a fish, became a living soul. And he was made of the mud. You know, could it be that somehow, There's a transmission in that spirit, in that breast, that something they received as well, that is, I don't know if I can give God genes, but there is a gene connection between us and them that's compatible. You know, you can't just make babies with anything, right? Giant babies in that case, right? Giant babies, and then the modern era, we'll get to it, is a little bit different.

So this whole part of the Bible comes to life, and after the Gnostic period, where this spiritual, Jesus becomes a spirit, he's in the realm of spirit, and when you die, you become a spirit, and he's a spirit, how did the angel get their wings? When Constantine gave the edict of tolerance and people came out of the catacombs and all that, they wanted to have art, they wanted to have Christian art now. And they thought, okay, you know what, there's all this Roman art around. We'll just take it. So, for instance, there was ISIS and Osiris, like the story, of this woman holding her child. And they're like, you know what, we'll just adopt that.

What's called that? That'll be Jesus and Mary. So the artist would just create exactly Isis and Osiris, but now is Jesus and Mary. And so you kind of see that emerge. Apollo with a sun god. He had a huge halo around him because he was a sun god. And the halo represented the sun.

It was like, okay, we'll just take that halo and put it behind Jesus. And now that's how we will differentiate Jesus from the other characters. we're going to create, he'll have Apollo's halo. And then on the tomb of Romans, and there's a video I have my YouTube channel. You can watch where I put a clip of this man in Rome who was talking about this period of Roman history, and he goes to a tomb. So the tomb of Romans had these things on them called Nikes, and they're little boys with wings, and they carry the soul of the dead to the realm of the gods.

And they're holding the soul in between their hands with little boys, with wings. And he says, you know, like he says, you look at this. What do you think this is? And obviously everyone's going to go, those are angels. And he says, no, these are Nikes, the carriers of the souls. They were paganite things that existed before Christianity came to Rome. And the Roman artist just took it. And they said from now on, these would be the angels. So the idea of wings maybe goes back to the cherubim and the seraphim, which are the only things that seem to have wings. But Ezekiel doesn't describe flappy feather wings,

like that of a bird. They're very straight. They make this awful noise. And when they move, they're up, and when they stand, they're down. And there's a lot of metal and electricity and hard to understand the details until we see it, and it's wheels within the wheels,

and it's like, one wheel is like this, one wheel is like that. It means it can go in any direction, you know, that it wills. like it's a throne of God. Oh, by the way, the throne of God. So in Isaiah. We're going all over the place.

I was going to say, like, maybe a better way to put the angels, humans. It's kind of like angels are the Great Dane, the purebred Great Dains, and we're just these ugly chihuahuas. Does it work? It works. But you're going to have disastrous consequences

when that baby comes around. You know, we're all, like, technically we'd be canine, right? We would be in the same we could. It's possible. Right. And the family of God, right? You think about it practically. Chewaha'uha.

Good luck. I want to be a bulldog, all right? All right. You're a little bigger, so you can be. You were saying God's throne. In Isaiah 66, verse 15, for behold, the Lord will come in fire and his chariots like the whirlwind. to render his anger in fury and his rebuke with slames of fire. So the Lord will come in fire and his chariots, his chariot, the Lord's chariots,

like the whirlwind, you know, and to render, so now the Lord, so until now I would say, that's why I think Psalm 86, 68, is talking perhaps, oh, transited the word Elohim there as angels, but, you know, resav Elohim there. why? Because the word here is merkeva and is plural merkevut, which comes from the same root. And if you look it up, most dictionaries

will say it's the same meaning. That's why it's translated the same chariot. There's a slight difference. Merkeva is more like a carriage. You know, like King Charles is carried in a carriage. It's like a carriage and the thing, the M, it's like the thing that does the carry. There are many other Hebrew words where you add the M

and it becomes a thing that does the action. And I was talking to a friend of mine who's from Israel, and he was saying, like, I could come into my garage and say, look at my Merkevas. Or if you look at the tank, the main tank of the army of Israel, it's called the Merkeva tank, right? Because it's a vehicle. And so in the book of Daniel, Daniel's chapter 7,

I think it's first 14, we see Daniel talk about the son of man who comes to the ancient of days in a cloud, and we see the Lord in the book of Acts ascend into one. And he, in Daniel's prophetic eye, tells us that whatever received him in the history, in the historical book of Acts, he appeared in the same to the ancient of days

at the temple, at the heart of time and space. So he was received in a cloud, and Daniel says, the son of man came in a cloud to the ancient of days. So that cloud, whatever it was that received him, some say it was the glory, fine, but it was something. I'm not saying there are buttons on this thing. I'm not reducing it to the U.S. as enterprise. There is a mystery here, but there is something real. And so the Bible speaks of this,

and we see it, and there's maybe different kinds. You know, the angels have their Rheb, and God has his Merikava, both coming from the same word. And we don't know what it is, how it operates. I don't want to turn it into sci-fi. Like, Gabriel is like, you know, all are coming to me. and then the pilot's like, sir, it's a problem, the carburetor. Yeah. We got to make a pit stop. I'm going to look.

Where are they, like, you know, where can I find a carburetor around here? And then, you know, they find Anakin Skywalker or something. No, it doesn't quite work that way. Right. I don't want to reduce it to that. But I don't want to go with the Gnostic magical spiritualization that the world of angels is the world of magic,

a world of magic instead of one that operates within the laws of God's creation because they are finite beings like we are. God is the only one that's not finite. And they have to operate within the laws of creation. They just know more of it than we do. Right. I was reading the book of Enoch because as we was looking to the sons of God in Nephilim, the Jew pointed me to Enoch, so I went and got books of Enoch and ordered one. No one, I couldn't find that. I had to go to a new age store. That's where they had it. That's wild. Yeah. But eventually, you know, I found one,

a good translation that I ordered, took three weeks for it to get to me. Oxford University Press, Dr. T. Lawrence, he was the translated it because the guy who found the book of Inocchio, in Ethiopia gave a copy to Oxford, kept one for himself and gave one to the Louvre in the 18th century, the Scottish export.

And so there, in the book of Enoch, I could see that the angels were teaching men bodies of knowledge that we would consider science, like, you know, alchemy or chemistry or astronomy or astronomy. The cutting of roots. Yes, right. Farmacare. Farmercate. Formicia. Metallurgy, but to create weapons. Like, you know, the military arts and the fabrication of sword, when you look at all the weapons, there's just farming instruments.

The only weapon that's not a farming instrument is the sword. From the beginning, it was created for one purpose alone to kill man. To take it a man's life was never a farming instrument. So it was like, but I don't think that as Azel just thought like how to make sword. I think the implication is he taught how to use it, how to armies. He introduced us to military arts. right the way that if you don't you don't just give someone like a piece of wood with some strings you know you teach them music right and and that's one you know and you look at or you make them in

num chucks right if you have you make the the the the whole thing with um the line of cane um everything in the line of cane that we see like this so-and-so was the first of the metallurgists so-and-so was the first of the musicians everything in that line is dedicated to the worship of the fallen angels. The metallurgy was used to create idols. The music was there to sing songs to them. Everything was corrupt. That's how the rabbis interpreted.

So they're like, hey, this is bad stuff. That's why it's in there. Because there are only two ways you make it in the Bible. Or you are exceptionally good in brackets. I know we've all sin. Or you're exceptionally evil. You know, if you qualify in one of these two categories, you kind of make it into the pages of scripture, it seems. So these angels, they appear differently to my mind now than the magical creatures, you know, just went like this and things happen.

They were angels who knew more, they were beings who knew more about the laws of creation than we did. we were now catching up. If we could break the atom into and deciphered DNA was because this is the stuff of the sons of God. If we can pierce the first heaven with the Wright brothers and the second heaven with our rockets, with Sputnik, which was like, you know, what threw us into the second heaven and the rockets of Elon Moss, this is the stuff of the sons of God. So, you know, because when you look at the word shaman heavens in the Bible, it includes the sky, and sometimes it's translated as a sky because the context determines meaning in the Bible. So it translates as, oh, it's Shemimai, but it actually says the birds are flying in Shemime. So the English is sky. But then it sometimes means the area where the sun and the moon are, and that's the second heaven.

And the third heaven is everything beyond that, the vastness of the universe. and, you know, David talks about the Shama, the Shemayim of the Heaven, the heavens of the heaven. So maybe that's where the temple is at the heart of the role. But definitely the word Shemimim includes the universe. But in the Gnostic, we suddenly, you know, leap into this whole other spirit realm. And St. Augustine is the next step of the spiritualization. He comes and he's the student, well, he's partly the student of origin. and origin gives him that highly spiritualized the view of the Bible.

And St. Augustine essentially seals that at a foundational time where the church is still united in one body. You know, well, you know, never has been, but you know what I mean? It's united enough that the idea spreads to all of its branches. It's before the division between Orthodox and Catholic and Protestant. and everyone gets it. And then comes the Middle Ages, and in the Middle Ages,

we get two types of Christians. One Christians say, you know what? Wow, the creation is the, this is the creation of God. Why don't we actually study it? We're going to learn from it. The other group of Christians said, no, no, no, no, you're not.

We have no interest in that. Our focus should be the soul. That's what we should focus on, the soul. And they divide. The one that goes into the study of actually the physical creation, like, let's say a man like Descartes, leads to the creation of the universities in Perugia. The other group starts to really put into place the idea that the physical is profane

and that which is pure and true is non-physical. So that becomes, so after we got the Gnostic and we got Augustine, then we have this. Then we're moving forward now in Christian history and the spiritualization and the magical nests of things and the angels made. And you're right. At this point, Catholic art, you know, goes on steroid and takes the Roman, you know, transporters of souls and really puts it all over the paintings. And yes, they do put bird wings maybe to also emulate flight. And so now there is, on one hand, we've created a magical realm. And you would call that more Gnostic?

That's the Gnostic perspective. And then it was amplified by St. Augustine, amplified. And now we're in, you know, the Renaissance, and we have now fully created this other magical realm. And the angels are there, and so is God. And then we have this imagination that's going to be populated with the paintings of the Renaissance masters. Right.

And those paintings are going to take us all the way into nettles. We're still going to make movies that see angels through the eyes of those paintings, which go back to the Roman Reikis, the carriers, the souls. The Nikes, right? Yeah, Nikes. And then they also... Not the kind you want to line up for, a foot locker. Right.

Before that, I think the Nikes may have gotten it from the idea of the cherub and the seraphim, which was originally something maybe all the nations took, you know, from the origin. Are you saying there's, like, two groups of Christians, like, one's, like, Very rational. The only thing we can know is these three dimensions. And there is no, there's not real, we don't really talk about the spiritual realm. And then the other side is super Gnostic. They go all the way into the spiritual. At this point, even those people that go into the physical, if they were to think about angels, they would think about it in the terms that we're, I'm described. Okay. This just becomes gradually the official way the church understands. We're very separated. It's, it's out there. It's the physical, the world of heaven and earth is divided between ghostly and physical. Yes.

And then we are just a shadow. You know, it's funny because a lot of guys come on our show and they don't like the term supernatural for this very reason. They don't like saying that because this is what it does in the brain. It separates it all, right? It separates it all. And it's a trap of the enemy, I believe. Well, let me just finish this line of thought and I'll show you how the enemy then created the concept of aliens. So basically then comes the next stage of the separation where we have the atheists and, you know, we have the age of enlightenment.

And we have these philosophers, especially David Hume, with his idea of materialism, that you can only believe what you can see. And so Christians are like, no, no, no, no, it's through the eyes of faith. We see another realm that you don't see, this spiritual realm. So now to take a position against materialism, Christianity goes even further into this ghostly realm as the evidence of what a man of faith sees, that a man was natural without the spirit doesn't see. And so at this point, we're fully inside of,

this is where the world evangelist's magical, it's non-physical, it doesn't matter if the Lord said, I have flesh and bone, it doesn't matter if he said, come and touch my wounds, if it doesn't matter if he gave me food and they gave him fish and honey, it doesn't matter because he became a ghost the moment he left us. You can put him, you know, on the back of a donkey. You can put him in the fisherman's boat or even at the end of Roman whips.

But if you put him in the heavens with his angels and their chariots, sacrilegious to the modern thinker because God is much too big for these things, even though you can't really put God in a box of any side. There is no box big enough to hold God in the way we imagine things. But somehow the Christian feels that the ghostly box, the magical box, is the bigger, better, most suited to God. I'll leave real quick, though. You don't completely throw out the spiritual, right?

Because we know we have the Holy Spirit, and we know that there are, that the demons themselves are disembodied spirits of the Nephilim. We have a real spiritual realm, but the idea that we categorize everything in that space as spirit is a problem that is infiltrated the church, right? Because we have a very physical nature of the angelic in addition to, which we know there is a, there are spiritual beings and things. But I think that's a slippery slope over because we, I think there's a knee jerk. And this is what you're saying. There's a knee jerk to make everything that, right? Everything is

that. That's a great point brought in. So the idea here is that the spirit, the Holy Spirit, evil spirits. So the idea is that one would take that because we are in the age of the Holy Spirit and then extend it to create the very fabric of all of reality. Yes. Other than the fact that the Spirit is part of it, like you and I are physical beings, yet we have the Holy Spirit. So when the Lord said, I go to prepare a place for you, is he actually preparing a place? Is he still in process and sequence? Do the angels come and report to him? And they have conversations in issues, commands.

Is there a timing to the unfolding of history? And when the time is right, the father says, go, you know, and sit here until I make your enemies a footstool at your feet. Is it actually sitting? Or is it's everything a metaphor because it's all just ghosting and magical? So the idea is that the realm, the reality that they are operating in, like the heavenly Jerusalem's description at the end of the book of Revelation, is still inside of, you know, sort of a substance. And yes, there are spirits, such as the spirit of God himself and the evil spirit, the Shedim, and the spirit of Nephalim. I mean, that's the root of demons, according to it's the spirit of the angelic portion of the Nephalem. Rome's the earth, and that's why the Lord

casts them out as he arrives as the king. So the idea is these things exist inside of God's creation. But the church then takes these spirit's realities. and identifies the entire fabric of creation through it. Right, broad brushes the whole thing saying, well, this is all then. Well, it's all phylum and kingdom and everything else. It's all the same. It's all like this.

And then associates magic rather than process to that. Yeah, we did an episode recently in one of our friends of the show, guy named Doug Van Dorn, talked about the poof theory. Right. Which is the poof, they took the form of this, and poof, they became like men in poof. hoof. And you're like, it's just like Harry Potter. Not the angel, Phenoc that have all this knowledge, you know. So my perspective of angels began to change.

And, you know, I was like, okay, so these guys are actually, you know, I don't know how they get there, where they're going. Do they accelerate the speed of light? And then, like, you know, Einstein said, E equals MC2. So if you accelerate the speed of light squared, the mass turns into energy. So then they turn to energy and then turn to another realm. I don't know how they do it. But, you know, I'll find out eventually, but there is like process. Even if he said Gabriel, you know, God says to Gabriel, go talk to there. Does God just think Gabriel and Gabriel appears in front of marriage? Does Gabriel, you know, get into a chariot and come? Does he open a gate? How does he open that gate? If he just walks to the fabric of the heavens, does he press the button, does he think the gate open? Is there a gate who built

that gate. So all of this are processes, right? And the church has never had to think about this. Well, I mean, we deal with it constantly, right? Because every time we release an episode that has to do with people finding bodies of these beings that fly these, you know, the gray aliens,

or they find craft, guys like Bob Lazar, all these whistleblowers coming out saying the government has craft. Christians are the first people in the, just to blast us. Like we're making this up, because this is all demons. It's all spiritual. It's not real. It doesn't have any physicality.

Right, right. Every day we deal with it. And we're trying to push it forward that we've very, we've limited ourselves. You backed ourselves into a corner. So now even if this stuff lands on your front yard, you can't accept it. Yes. That's why I think the Lord showed me that. Yeah. Because it sealed the idea for me. I knew this was real because I saw one. And then it disappeared in the desert on a pole. That is the wild, Ali, that is the wild, I mean, if you, if you don't see that, how do you, I mean, how do you even? The Prince of Persia has, has been here for a long time. Yes. But it's a battle, you know, with the angel. It's Daniel 10. Yeah, 100%. We talk about that all the time on the show.

So if everything's ethereal, then how does it get held up? Doesn't it just like appear? Yes. And if they fight for 21 days, how do they exactly fight in their minds? They're like, oh. It's like Jedi's, man. The crazy thing, though, and this is to drive a point home is we've had a Catholic priest on the show and he was an exorcist, one of the top of exorcists in the Catholic Church.

And his view of the supernatural views that term was that everything's very thorough and they can just show up whenever they want. And then he's always casting out the devil and the demons can just be here and angels can just be here. And it's very hard to really justify any of that with what's in scripture. And yet that becomes, and you just sort of eloquently pulled that string. Yeah. That becomes really the dogma of the church is this is how it is.

But how does that work then if with, you know, ABCD, EFG exhibits here in the Bible where that isn't the case? And I mean, Prince of Persis is a great one. That's kind of what came to mind. It was like, it can't really operate that way if in the biblical text, in the inspired, the basis of our faith says things operate differently, right? But again, just that is a provision. prevailing, you know, thought or a prevailing belief.

Because, as you've walked us through history here, that's the conditioning, right, is that this is how things are. Well, I like how you said it. You said it's how Satan has kind of reprogrammed our brains, and it's a deception. Yes. So let me accelerate the history just for the sake of time. So basically, I realized, wait a second, in the Bible, scriptural account of angels was a lot more like the UFOs. And the modern UFO phenomenon, once you take the deep dive in it, you know, John Mack,

the head of psychiatry at Harvard University, wrote a book called Abductions in 1994, where he says it's all real. The heart of the UFO phenomenon is the abductions. And watch my documentary because the second half is, you know, Chuck Missler and Dr. David Jacobs. One, you know, is presenting the empirical evidence, the other is giving the biblical perspective. And so you'll see what happens with these abductions. Hybrids are created. And now that brought really the Nephilim to light for me.

The empirical evidence of today's, you know, UFOs brought the chariots to life. And the empirical evidence of the hybrids of today brought the Nephilim to life. And now I could see what the Bible had to say about these cherries and Nephilim. And I was praying to God because Chuck was saying, look, I think that there's going to be the battle at the end of the age where the enemy is going to turn things around and he's going to make his. it looked like an alien invasion. He's going to cast the second coming in that light. And then when the Lord is coming with his angels, he's going to essentially fool the world and saying,

these are the bad guys. They're coming to bring religion and all the bad stuff you have. But the good guys are already here and they're behind the world leader. And if the kings of the earth, so to speak, rally with him, he will then, you know, defend the world against this invading alien force.

And the gentleman with whom I was studying the Bible, that is also in there John Field, he said the same idea independently. He said, I think this is where it's going. And since they both said this, that this would be the great lie, the great deception, I thought, okay, I'm going to make this kind of the very final point, you know, of where this whole documentary is going. And then I sat down and said, Lord, biblically, how can I prove that in the past Satan has created now. national paradigms for humanity. If I'm going to say at the end of this age, there's going to be a paradigm of reality, downloaded on a scale of, you know, the whole world, and the UFO phenomenon comes with this own propaganda that the savers of the world have arrived.

Early on, that propaganda is seated into the world. And so where am I going to get this, like idea that in the Bible, this happened in the past, and now I can say it's going to happen again. I wanted this to be rock-solid, you know, people challenge me. oh yeah really the Satan's going to fool the whole world when has ever that happened in the past and so I prayed to God then a new sequence of events unfolded so as I was thinking about this whole thing sorry backtrack I was going to you know to the Bible studies as gentlemen we're now talking about all of these things a chariots that one day I walk up the stairs and he says to me I know

where the throne of Satan is I said where is the throne of Satan? He says in Pergam. I'm like, well, how do you know that? He says, well, it says it right here. And he opens Revelation chapter 2 and it says Pergam. So I'm doing my graduate studies at UFT. So I have access to the library there. I go to look up Pergamum. And it sends me to the library of archaeology, which is part of the Royal Ontario Museum, which is in the campus. And I go there and I look at Pergamum and there I find the notes of Carl Human, the archaeologist engineer, archaeologist who had dug up this altar of Zeus. And he says, in his notes, he says, look, if there was anything of importance in Pergium that Christ referred to as the throne of Satan, it must have been the altar of Zeus.

So I for a copied that page with the writing of Carl Hewain. I brought it back to him, and I said, look, Carl Heum agrees with you, and he dug up this Pergamum, and he thinks it's the altar of Zeus that is referring to, and they put it in a train, they asked the Ottoman Empire the permission to take it to Berlin, where they built an entire museum to house and rebuild it. Usually they would only put something small from these finds in a museum, like a piece of a wall. But these people, I think they were into the occult. They asked that this entire altar be rebuilt, and they asked that a museum be built for it. And that's Museum di Pergamum, which is now called the Museum of Berlin, was built, and the gates of

Astar are there as well from Babylon, in the same building. Wow. Yes. And then he said to me, well, why would the Lord be making a connection for us between the, you know, a pagan god like Zeus, the leader of this pantheon in the Greek world, and the fallen angel, you know, Satan. Why would God make that connection for us if the altar of Zeus and the throne of Satan are being connected? That's what is happening here.

Why would God connect Zeus to Satan for us? Is there a connection between the fallen angels and the gods? And that became the new idea. It just hit me. These ideas were like the Holy Spirit, like someone says something to you. And the Spirit like amplifies it for your brain. And you're like, boom. And this was one of the, I'm going to look into this.

So of all the ancient astronaut theorists, only one took the very deep dive into the gods, and that was Zachary Sitchin. So I sat down and I read every book he ever wrote, and I talked to him on the song in Manhattan. I found his number on Google. And I called him, and he said, how do you find this number? This is my wife's number. I'm like, oh, sorry. Well, I just because I'm Google. And I wanted to interview him, but it didn't work out.

And I'm glad it didn't work out. So he opened my eyes to the libraries of Mesopotamia and to the fact that the Iloni, that's what they called them, were real because the way they were spoken of in these tablets, there are more, like the library of Ashroban Nepal, there are more tablets found to the gods than any other subject matter. There's tablets about architecture, medicine, surgery, but the gods is the number one. one section of the library. In fact, that's why Septuagen created, because in Alexandria, Potolome had the writings of all the gods other than the Hebrew God, and he wanted to complete.

That's what the libraries were. When we think of library, we think of all you can put the library. The closest library we have to the ancient concept of libraries is Library Congress. This is a place where the rulership consults things. The teachings of the gods were there. If you look at the architecture, like the altar of Zeus in Pergamum, was literally associated, like, in words, walking, you would walk from it to the house, to the palace of the ruler and to the library, which contained the teachings of the gods. Most of the senators of Rome were priests of Jupiter. So, like, if you go to the forum, to Rome today, where the heart of government was, that's where all the temples were. the Senate and the temples are all of it so basically

I was like wow these guys are real so these were these were real beings and these gods and then I thought well what does the Bible have to say about it then so this program had come out at this time called ESOR it was new and you could isolate any word you wanted in the Bible

and I had it that someone had said hey get ESORD so I went in and I typed in the word gods and it sped out all the words, all the passages in the Old and New Testament. I still actually, right now I'm not in my office because downstairs was busy, but I would have usually these things that I would show it to. I have all the printouts I made. And it just print, really in my thought, I thought it would be like maybe a few pages

about the gods, the Bible have a lot of information about these guys. Instead of printing, went to go, just printing and printing, and I'm like, wow, I'm surprised. And the whole thing came out, and I sat. down and I read it in one shot. And when you look at something in the Bible in one shot so intensely reading every single verse where the word gods appears, it doesn't affect on you like a scale that falls off. And even though I realize it talks about it in the constant of idols, yet there was so many passages that clearly said these were real. For instance, God admonished them, worship, you know, him all ye gods, or God judged them, like in the story of the Exodus,

you know, God will come and judge the gods of Egypt, you know, Exodus 1212, and or he, for instance, called himself their God, the God of gods, Allah, He Elohim, Adon Ha Adonim, the Lord of Lords. And he's like, why would God be the leader of mythological beings? And so that day when I sat there, I read this, and I read this. and I just said to myself, wow, so these were really according to the Bible. And, you know, now the passages made sense to me, such as Daniel chapter 10, made sense to me now. Psalm 82. Yeah, well, no, Psalm 82 said, you know, that he judges among the assembly of the gods.

Right. That kind of, you know, stayed with me. And the fact that the Lord quoted it and said that, you know, you are your gods, you are called Elohim in script. was given to you, why would it be wrong for me to be called that? Right? So man was called Elohim. That's kind of what I got out of that passage. But Daniel's chapter 10 didn't have the word gods in it, but it had this context of

principalities. The other passage was the conversation between Satan and Jesus concerning dominion has been given to me over all the nations of the world, and I'll give them to whom ever I will. Now, that became, you know, very real to me. He literally was ruling, and this was the manifestation of it, these beings. And so I thought, okay, then this idea came to my mind, and I think this was from the Holy Spirit. Chuck Missler used to say, when he talked about the sons of God and the daughters of men, he used to do the whole study in the Bible, and then he would say, you know, there's one more

passage where the sons of God are mentioned. But you have to read it in the Septuagint to see it. And that's, you're trying to be 32, verse 8 and 9. And that idea came to my mind because now, I mean, I knew what that passage was because I'd heard Chuck quoted so many times. But with this knowledge, that passage now made a huge sense to me because the division, the spiritual division of reality would be announced in that passage. And all of these concepts in the Bible would now make sense, these beings that were over

the nations. And so I went to the computer quickly. for the first time ever I looked in Septuagint, and that verse was there, that the nations, when they were given their boundaries, they were divided according to the number of the Sons of God. And what I had learned from the study of, let's say, Zachary Cision, was that information was handed down, the may they recall. Information was handed down that's at the basis of civilization. The world was corrupted not only by the seeds of the sons of God, but by the knowledge they spoke into the world.

I mean, that's what Saddam Gomorrah was about why. The force of idol worship, the source of all kinds of bodies of knowledge that perverted reality, perverted the creation of God. The code of Hamurabi, you know, you could see, like for instance, Hamurabi receiving it from Shams, the sun god, the scroll of Hamurabi's law. And if you look at the statue of Hamurabi, you see the code there. And that's why in the very beginning of my documentary, it says all the civilizations attribute their tenacity to the gods. and it was like free Moses goes on top of the mountain receives the laws

and the Hebrew civilization is born but that is the story of the birth of all civilizations the closest one to us is the story of Islam Mohammed receives a recitation and Bada boom the Islamic civilization is born according to those precepts and the Bedouins of Arabia conquer the Persian and Greek world

and create the world we see today with their first written book the main contribution of the Arab to the world is the Quran But that was the story of the Vedic texts and the birth of the civilization of the Hindus valley, the Avest of the Zoroastrians, the Egyptian book of the dead, the Enuma Elif, you know, the most ancient text of Mesopotamia. And so I was like, wow, this is the birth of civilization that came.

So God ceded the world with life, and then the life was ceded with knowledge. And that's how civilization began, because when you look to the libraries of Mesopotamium, all the bodies of knowledge that are the base of civilization were handed down. Architecture, what comes from temple building. And not only did God give the codes of the building of temple to, let's say, Moses and, you know, Solomon. He also, so did these beings reveal codes. And I can't get into all the details of the documents that are very, very well. I've researched and you can believe it.

You know, like the King of Lagash, for instance, you know, who receives the, the code to build the temple, and it's in a dream, and then the dream, when you read it all, it's very, very real, all kinds of things came to life that from these ancient writings from Mesopotamia that were real, knowledge was handed down, and I was curious. I was like, wow, so this is, you know, what Chuck says about Jeremiah 32, verse 8 and 9, this is the vision of reality, and knowledge given down to these, to the world, and these were the fallen angels who treated their own civilizations, their own religions, and then God chose Israel and created his own

and he chose kings, they chose kings. He gave them the codes how to build temple. They gave the code to build the cigarette. So it's like a counterfeit world. This is like Graham Hancock's hypothesis too, right? If you watch his doc, right, these enlightened travelers show up and they teach these people's civilization, right?

I mean, literally, it's the same thing. But he's got the ancient alien theory. Yeah, right. Which is interesting because, right, it's literally what you're saying. And this is funny because Nate and I did an interview early on before we knew anything about anything in this show with Scott Walter of American Earth.

And he starts on this diatribe. And he's like, he's a mason and talking about how the aliens are, they're here already. And they're working behind the scenes. It's exactly what you said. And you go, you hear this now everywhere that you, if you know what to listen for, you hear it. And it's ancient alien theory.

And it's also being propagated that this is what's happening. They're here. They're going to step in to save us from ourselves. and they're going to save us from an impending. So Antichristos means the pseudo-missai. Right. Yeah. And so I think what you're saying is so fascinating

because it's all through history. And then here we are, and you talked about how it went from Renaissance to Netflix, nothing changed. And it really hasn't. Yeah. It's just getting repackaged and resold and re-given back to us and saying, this is it, this is the narrative. But if you go backwards and then forward, you go and it's all the same.

Dude right 32, defied the nations, they create their own, and they just mimic and counterfeit. in the same way the end is the same right what are they mimicking counterfeiting i think that a god is creating the architecture of a temple in which we will be royal priests and that temple will sit the heart of creation and so what these guys are imitating in their divisions they're duking out the territories they're going to have and they're creating a counterfeit government essentially a counterfeit, you know, celestial reality that eventually they want to export into creation, but they're duking out the boundaries with each other here, and that will, you know,

amplify, as their territory amplifies, they're creating a counterfeit heavenly Jerusalem. That's their ultimate goal. Which is why, you know, you have a lot of progressive Christians who sort of adopt this idea that all religions are sort of serving the same God, and it's like, no, they're not. They're counterfeiting the one true God. Once you understand that the God is rhetorical and that they were the source of revelation, also that they created these religions,

Hinduism, and that's one of the reasons I never really wrote in detail all these discoveries because I was concerned, especially when it came to Islam, especially since I was going back to Iran and coming to see my dad, that I found a very powerful way of proving it all from scripture,

and I had this knowledge, and I didn't see, I was a seeker before I became a Christian. So I was very familiar with the religions of the world. Christianity was the last one I studied. So I went back and I read all the books again from the point of view that they were revealed. And I noticed that they all stood against the word of God. They all like, you know, had handled.

Like for instance, anyways, I don't want to get into these other script, but they all take something of God's word and perverted and offer an alternative to that concept, to their believers. whether it's union with God, whether it's righteousness through the law, and they create an alternative understanding of reality of what happens after death, of who you should worship and how, because they have dominion over in the souls of men. So I thought, okay, this is really interesting. I wonder what this word is gods, and I could see that there was like little numbers

on this thing that had printed. And that was the Strongs Dictionary, codes. So I went back to resource and I looked at the number and it said, Elohim. And I said, oh, okay, Elohim. So then I kind of did some research into what the word Elohim meant. It was plural. It could mean gods or it could mean God. And then I noticed that it says, oh, there's the Lord is the God of gods.

And I looked up all of those words now. They all had numbers. And the Lord said, Yahweh. and then, you know, God, L. And so now I could read, I was like, Yahweh is the El- Elohim. Wait, Yahweh is the God of God. So now the conversation with Moses made a lot of sense

where God Moses says to God, what's your name? Now I see what he meant because there were all these beings. And it was like from among all of these, who are you, you know, our God? And so that I saw the Lord as the leader of these, you know, beings. I remember telling one of the guy who edited the movie with me, Mark was him as Mordecai, but he's Jewish.

And I was telling him, this is that. And he was like, well, that sounds a lot like the Greek gods, what you're telling me. Like you're saying, our God is like, you know, the leader. I'm like, yeah, but the difference is he's their creator. He's not among them. He's not one of them. He's, you know, he's outside of it all.

And so suddenly my, this concept came to life, the Elohim, and the place of God among them, the Trotomy 32, and my prayer was answered. Now I knew that the enemy had created entire bodies of knowledge that had given birth to civilization itself, and that I could now comfortably with a clear constant say this was going to happen to get at the end of the age, where once again, you would now pour an entire religious system into the human world that involved this UFO reality, which was a repackaging. So to come to the point of how was the alien thing? created. So basically, it goes back to, so you've got Pernicus, Francis Bacon, Galileo, and Newton,

and these guys are also masons, you know, and they dabble in the occult, especially Galileo and Newton, very important masons. Now, Galileo's body was on earth after he died and given a Masonic burial and his teeth and bones were removed, which was a Masonic ritual, and they were sold. There's a New Times article you can read about this that's recent because it talks to the family that bought the parts of Galileo. And so basically these guys had these rituals. They would go and ideas would come to their mind. So they create a new idea. No longer are we in the heavens.

We're in the universe. Oh, really? Yes. And what's the universe? Well, whatever we see through Galileo's telescope. And we will now measure it scientifically documented according to Descartes. measuring system, you know, that we can see and measure the world. And so suddenly we're no longer in the heavens. The Christian knows about the heavens. Where is the heavens the Christian? In that realm

that began with the fracture that came from Gnosticum and Augustine. That's where the heavens is. No longer is the heavens, this thing you see at night. This is now the universe of these men, of Copernicus and Francis Bacon and Galileo. I mean, Francis Bacon wrote the New Atlantis. of Newton and the telescope that sees it all, whether it's a James Webb telescope, it continues. So the scientific ages are for then, the materialism of David Hume, the separation of church and state,

and this whole idea that we're in the universe. And of course, then Darwin comes and populates it. And that's how the alien is born. No longer is it the heavens and the earth and the host of the earth, and the host of the earth. But it is rather the universe where we evolved here and others evolved elsewhere. And the Christian believes in the world of God and angels and all the character of the Bible. But they don't exist really in our world.

They'll exist in the other dimension, we begin to call it, because that makes it a lot more like modern. We have this new word. It makes it so like, you know, scientific. And yes, it's neither a scientific term nor a biblical term. because we haven't ever gone to another dimension empirically. And we don't know about dimensions in the Bible, in my understanding. But we know about the heavens. So suddenly, it's all in the imagination.

There is a separation created between the world of angels and the world we live in, and these guys fill the void with their concept of reality. And Darwin populates it for us. So now the fallen angels inhabit that concept, I believe they inspired, which replaced the heavens with the cosmos, like the scientific universe. And they populated, they think centuries in advance. Satan quotes the scriptures to the Lord. And so he does, they realize, oh, this is going to happen. And that's why they put the Nephalem in the land. When God said to Abraham, I'm going to take you here, they're like, okay, we'll put some obstacles on the way.

And that worked. They couldn't get in. They were afraid. They wandered. Perhaps when the Lord said after the years of wandering, I'll call Israel back to her land. The enemy said, why don't I put some weeds all around it? The house of the crescent of the moon will fill this place, and I will inspire it to all kinds of things, right? So the enemy goes ahead and thinks centuries advance. So the concept was created of the alien, and this, I think, laid the groundwork for the coming deception. So now I had the knowledge of the gods, the sons of God, the Nephilim, the chariots, and the Bible gave me a story that put it all together.

The Lord had come to the earth. This is how they come and go. After the flood, the Lord had divided the nations and given to the hands of these beings. And the word Elohim, the rabbis say, means spiritual authority. If you look at like Colossians chapter 1, verse 16, I think. That's a good description of that word, actually. So it means spiritual authority. Because I said to the rabbis, I'm like, you know, why is it,

or by him all things were created in heaven? And on earth, the seen and the unseen, whether thrones or angelic powers or rulers or authorities. This is what the word refers to. I said to rabbis, why is it plural? He said, because it represents the attribute of God as the authority of all authorities. and there are many levels of authority, and he is the one that is above them all.

So the plurality refers to the multitude of levels of authority, and now he's sovereign over them all. So instead of translating this as the gods of the nations, we might be more comfortable to translate them as the authorities, the spiritual authorities that were put over the nations. And gods chose Jacob. So this was kind of the worldview, So these were separated. Then these guys created civilization by giving the codes to the nations. God gave the code of civilization to the Jews. And of course, he came through his son. He then, you know, sent the Holy Spirit and brought the nations back to himself. His son went in a cloud and left. And, you know, the Jews were scattered to the four winds and the gospel went to the nations. And then the time had come where the Lord was getting the planet ready for his return. So he had called,

called Israel back to the land. And the same year that Israel became a nation, 1947, 1948 is the year the UFO phenomenon began. These guys then saw that as a clue, and boom, boom. They walked into the scene and walked into this scientific universe that created for man, I think. Through the masons, they do rituals. They do rituals, and they read revelation in these rituals.

Well, we knew the Nazis were doing the same thing, right? I mean, they were, I mean, it's the best one, right? Because you go, how did they go from unbelievable inflation and abject poverty after World War I to being, to making weapons of war? No one had ever seen or couldn't even imagine. It was crazy. Right. And then you find out that they had like, they were doing rituals.

They had occult. They had occult temples that they had built. And they were deeply, deeply into that. And you go, well, of course. Right. Here you go. It's in Berlin. 100% right? Yeah. No, but yes, but it is in Berlin.

But do you know about Nuremberg, the altar of Zeus in Nuremberg? Oh, okay. So they put the author of Zeus in Berlin. And Hitler has an architect, Albert Speer. And he's looked for inspiration. Hitler has told him, you know, make Berlin look great, make Germany look great. So he then goes to the exhibit and looks at the altar of Zeus and inspires him. And he decides he's going to build a giant.

one in Nuremberg for Hitler. He builds a giant version of the altar of Zeus. Wow. And then he puts these lights all around it, which are 12 meters apart, because Hitler says to make the rallies when they come in, make it look like a Catholic man. So I want it to be a spiritual experience. Now, the Christians worship inside in the basilicas. They took the Roman community centers, the basilicas, and that's how they build the church. But the pagans worship outdoors. So these guys are going to worship outdoor.

And so he then, Albert Speer, builds a giant version of the altar of Zeus in Yerambore. And then he puts these army lights every 12 meters apart and lights them up and they go up like pillars of light. So it's like a light cathedral, he calls it.

It's all made of pillars of light. You can Google it. Just Google a light cathedral and you'll see it. And there is, you know, the altar large and Hitler then stands and where the bull was that represented Zeus where the bishop of Pergamum was fed to the bull you know and lit up and so I forget his name my mind is tired right now you're doing good you're doing good antipus was placed in there and lit up the bronze bull you guys know about this yeah and so it was you know so where the bull was he puts the microphone where Hitler is going to now speak from.

And these guys were on drugs, like the Nazi soldiers. Oh, yeah. And they came into this place. It was like this, he was haunted by demon. They couldn't see him, and he couldn't see that. You know, it wasn't like modern lights and stuff. And he says, he says in his speeches, I can't see you and you can't see you, but I can feel you.

And you can feel me. You know, he connects the crowd. And it is from there that he declares the laws of the Holocaust, from the Nuremberg laws, from right there, in that altar. Wow. So it's as though it was as they're coming back to the land to, because the Lord says he does nothing other than what he is told through his servant, the prophets.

So if the prophetic vision of the prophets of the Bible points to a moment in history where Israel, Jerusalem, and the Messiah connect together, and that enters us into the Messianic kingdom, then as that starts to take shape on the stage of history, the enemy wants to break the word of God, break scripture, and prolong the age of empire. And so this thing rises.

Instead of the millennial kingdom, let's have the 1,000 year right. You know, it's like, you know, and let's have a new chosen people. And let's get rid of the old one. And they're also building hybrids. They're also degrading this master race, right?

Yeah, this master race. And this technology, like you're saying, is revealed to them that really prepared. us into the space age. You know, it all has to do with aeroplanes and rockets, right? So I think the enemy is preparing us for Armageddon. Because you look at the book of Enoch, if the Lord says, these are the days of Noah.

The days of Noah were the days of sons of God and their daughters of men, and everything, but they were also the days of massive knowledge that was handed down. We see in the book of Enoch the seven bodies' knowledge, but there was knowledge handed down. So we are the sons of God. We can take big knowledge, right?

And these guys can communicate things to us. So I think that the industrial age, you know, where we have this farming life, or like ever, from the time of Adam till the industrial revolution, we are basically living as farmers and cattle herders. And then suddenly something happens, and we go click, click. And apparently we're, you know, according to Carl Schwa, we're entering into the fourth stage of the Industrial Revolution, the digital age. And he says, first, we'll have it as stuff we wear, and then we're going to put it in our bodies.

So that's what he writes in his book. Transhumanism. Transhumanism. And he calls it, you know, the fourth stage of the Industrial Revolution. So right now, we may be giving like AI and all that stuff and rockets. Maybe this is getting us ready for the War of Angels because Croatia is, it may say. sound the prophecies of the bible says Psalm 2 the book of joel three is that car 14 the book of revelation say the world's going to go war against the second coming of the lord and that's kind of

insane like not believing in god is one thing rejecting god rebelling in god etc but going to war against god that sounds crazy unless your perspective has been changed of who god is he's not is an alien this is an alien invasion these guys you know you're you you guys are talking about the modern New Goof Nomna and what's happening today, these guys have to come out of the woodworks and introduce themselves to the larger population. And they are. People lately all over the place are believing that the government is essentially quietly saying they really are here. You know, I'm getting phone calls from friends and family who've always just looked at my research from a distance. Okay, so the government is confirming that they're here. So what is what's going on? Now tell us. This impression that people, are getting. So this is perhaps the beginning of kind of massaging themselves into the imagination of people and preparing to cast the coming of the Lord as, as, you know, an angelic, as an alien reality. And in that, with that ruse, with that lie, leading the world to war and equipping us, when I have this footage in the documentary from Columbia shuttle,

Columbia had these cameras all around it, just to randomly film space. And it filmed this thing, and it was, at a time, became public, it was scrutinized to death by the UFO community. And everyone agreed that this is a real footage. And so you'll see there is this thing, and there's two of them,

and one of them just shoots at the other. This beam comes out of it. and the other one just takes off and the bean misses it. So could it be that UFO crashes are caused by the War of Angels? I speculated. And, you know, these ideas came to me about the gods, about the UFOs, about the hybrid in the 1990s. And the documentary was filmed starting in 2001 and was released in 2006. You're ahead of the curve, Ali.

You were way ahead. It's catching up to you now, right? I mean, what I find fascinating is that everything is a circle or nothing's new, right? Because what you're talking about is Babel again. We all can speak a language because of technology. Now we can all speak to each other and we can all speak a common language digitally. And at the same time, it was Nimrod going to kinetic war with God with the Tower of Babel, right? He's the first archetype of the Antichrist.

Right. And I just, I think what you're talking about is, is so important that people hear, and we've talked about on the show before, but this makes a ton of sense when we talked about the conditioning. You talked about the beginning condition from the 40s on with the UFO sort of phenomenon, and how Hollywood is supposed to interpret it and how we're supposed to be conditioned for this, right? Yes. What you said, I think it's, what's fascinating you said is that the enemy in darkness is thinking

centuries ahead, right? So it's played a long game. So they're getting everyone ready for this. And I think that as Nate said earlier, and we've said on the show before, that if Christians don't have their eyes open, they're not going to be able to quantify or contextualize a potential real disclosure and hold on to their faith. And I think that could be part of the great delusion. It really is that people's brains are going to get broken. If we tell people's brains get broken in 2020 by what happened, and they're still, and they're still that way. And that was small compared to what would happen if we get this, this, and I use this in quotes, this mass disclosure, alien disclosure, that they're here.

And listen, you grew up in the Islamic world, right? How in the world, and I said this before on the show, and I beat this to death sometimes, how in the world do you get Chechens and Russians and Shia and Sunni Muslims, to all be on the same team and Jews and everyone else be on the same team against a common enemy. You can't. Reagan said it in the 80s. The only way you can unite the world. It says the UN, said it out loud. Yes. Is perhaps to have something like an alien invasion. I know. I put that in the documentary. Just to show the Valley of Armageddon.

Daniel at 7 and 8, the little horn, he does talk about against the inhabitants of heaven and makes the stars, you know, fall down to the earth, which is an, idiom for angels. So this final leader is going to, why would he speak about God and then it happens of heaven publicly if that's what it's, that's what it intends to do, if that's what it means that he's going to do it publicly, unless the world has been accustomed to the world leader talking about the other in this, no, alien clothing. And the Muslim world, you know, I looked into how would they see, how do they see the UFO phenomena? Like, the, you know, the Muslim. without Muslims, how do they see the UFO phenomenon?

And I realized that they see it as angels, but since their religion, they've been deceived and their religion reverses everything, where the good and the bad are reversed, they might see the fallen angels as the good angels. You know, they might fall for the guys. That's funny because Christians see it all those demons, so. Right, so that's because they didn't understand the word Elohim.

That's what the Lord gave me. And once I realized in the Bible, it says Rechav Elohim, and Elohim applies to the angels good and evil. It even applies to God and us. Then I realized that these chariots can be associated with the whole host of the spiritual world. Yeah, yeah. That's how I was able to solve. Yes, that's how it.

So just to finish this part of the story, so the documentary released in 2006, and then a store opened up near where I both worked and lived, and it sold magazines. And I walked in there, and I was looking at the magazines, and then there was one that said biblical archaeology, and that's the one I usually show you, but I'm not in my office. So I was like, Bibulcar, Shilogy, that's my right alley.

So I picked it up, and it said, and I recognized the image, the picture, before I read the words, I recognized, it was a piece of the altar of Zeus. And then it said, you know, the throne of Satan, right on the cover of biblical archaeology, 2006, I remember one month. So I was like, I bought it. and I written back home and I sat down and I read it.

And it was an interview with Professor of Theology from Yale Seminary, Adela Collins. And she said, okay, this is in Pergamum, this is what the Lord must have been talking about. And then she gets into the word gods and Elohim. And she then says, look, the Septuagint, you know, has this other version than the Masoretic text in Desharmat 13, verse 8 and 9. and this agrees with the Dead Sea Scrolls, which also have this, and this is the oldest Hebrew copy, and the church fathers understood these beings,

the sons of God, who are behind the nations, to be what we would call fallen angels. So imagine here I am in 2006. No one in the Christian world is saying these things. I'm suddenly putting in a documentary that's going viral, and I am literally afraid before God that I'm not that I'm making sense. I want to make sure I'm not misleading people.

Right? Yeah. And so when I get this magazine that has the throne of Satan and the elder of Zeus and the gods, and I learned from Adela Collins that the Dead Sea Scrolls at it, because until here, I only knew the Septuagin had it. Now that was a huge confirmation for me. It was comforting to me. I was like, I'm on the right track. Then in 2013, I went to Israel for the first time.

and they took us to Caesarea, where they showed us, you know, the rock upon which the Lord stood. And he said, upon this rock, I'll build my church in the gates of Hades. And so it was a temple, an altar to the various gods. That was their place for the Romans. The same way that Ciziria Marinera was like their administrative center in the garrison and the Las Vegas. They created another city for worship.

And that was Caesar Philippine. And they had all these pagan temples. And then in the bottom of it, there was a cave. It was still there, big hole, and there was water in it, and they would sacrifice your animal, you know, tie it up and throw it in there. And if it went down, it meant the gods would answer your prayers. If it didn't, it was a no.

And that was called the gates of Hades, that cave, that water place, where you threw the animals. And so he stood there and he's referring to these beings, that there's this, he's announcing a change in the spiritual order, that this will be diminished the realm of these beings. and he will rise and his church with him. And the gates of 80s representing this structure, this kingdom of the enemy,

these pagan temples. You know, now that I saw the gods is real, the Bible said there, so this will not overcome it. I was like, ah, another confirmation.

Yeah, it's not Peter. It's not talking about Peter. It's not talking about Peter. He's like this actual rock. Yeah. Yes. And then two years later, this American theologian Michael Heiser, he wrote a book called The Unseen Realm.

Oh, yeah. And I read that book, and tears were coming uncontrollably down my eyes because I had spent over 10 years in kind of a fetus position being kicked by pastors and graduates of the seminaries telling me that I'm out to lunch and I should stop saying these things. I mean, pastors would literally, like if I let a Bible study in church, and somehow it went in that direction and someone revealed it to them, they would call me in their office like a child in the principal's office and chastised me and tell me to be quiet about this, that I'm making, I'm making sense. And of course, it wasn't so easy to say, well, there's a verse that doesn't exist in any of the Bibles that you have that is actually, you know, word to understand this.

That's kind of a conversation killer, right? There's a non-starter. Right, right. show it in many other ways. And I would never, I never wrote a book because I was like afraid of, of the Muslim reaction. If I would say now following this, afterwards, you know, the enemy reinvented in the guise of monotheism and brought a new revelation, the queen of heaven, entered the body of Messiah, and she continues to be active, that these beings continued into the post-Holy Spirit age.

And now they're coming out as UFOs. I could see now a line from Nimrod all the way to us, from before. before the flood to us. So that book, you know, I was crying because I thought, finally, a guy who's got the right pedigree, you know, he's a PhD, and he knows Hebrew. He's like, now I had understood, like, coming from Iran and coming from Asia, I think I had a spiritual way of thinking about religion where it was like, I have a relationship with the Lord and he leads me into discoveries and he annoys me of this Holy Spirit.

He leads me into mysteries. And that's how, I didn't even know that. like a pastor went to school to like become a pastor. I thought just like you were a really advanced Christian and so you were recognized by people. You just got your black belt, right? You just got your black belt. Exactly right? It was he got your back. And but what happened was I realized that the Western church was very intellectual, very hellenized, very academic and that degrees and these things meant a lot as how you know you could raise the dead but it's like well did you have you have a degree from a seminary. No, okay, well, then you don't know what you're talking about. So it was,

it was a very academic place. And I thought this, he's got all the right credentials. We should all just rally behind him. And he will be like, like this ship, you know, like the ice break. You know, and like Stalin said that Hitler was his icebreaker, you know, like he, you know, he conquered Europe for him and he just conquered, you know, Nazis. And so it was like, he'll go forward and we'll all follow him into the mainstream. of the church as he will he has the right lingo and pedigree to explain these things and and so that was a wonderful experience that was the final confirmation now i need okay this really was a revelation from the lord and that gave me the confidence to really really start you know talking about it and

and with confidence of course i've made many discoveries since well we we made the we made the fatal mistake of not treating this like the lord of the rings and trying to do the whole movie in one episode we should have split this up. This is just the fellowship of the ring. I have a feeling there's a Return of the King episode and a few more in here. But I love it. I love it.

Deep dive into that. Yeah, we would love to do that. And just to that note, like, you know, Dr. Michael Heiser became a good friend of ours. We had him on the show twice, and he actually became a personal friend. And so in the same way, we're grateful, like, for him kind of being, like,

you put it really beautifully. Like he had, he had the right, you had the right credentials to really push this, push returning to the scriptures and what the scriptures actually say and reading it,

you know, as an ancient Hebrew, not as a, as a 21st century, academic, you know, Westerner, without paradigm, right?

Protestantian Christian. From very great distance. Yeah. And listen to your story is fantastic, fascinating because, I mean, you were so far ahead of the curve,

Ali, it is inspiring. I think we're grateful for your work. And looking back, I mean, it's got to be wild for you to look back and say, you know, look at, we put this out in 06 and everything now for the last, what are we at 17 years now or 17 years later. You're looking at the saying, holy, like this is, we were, we were right on. I mean, it's got to be good confirmation. And I know that, I know that you're working on a few new things now, but, you know, as we kind of, as we kind of wrap this up here, you have a new documentary you're working on. It's not out yet, right? But it's really about what. we were just talking about it's about the end of Christ right yes that's right um that i thought you know the seed of the serpent that was like uh in genesis and then now among the hybrids look at daniel chapter two it says they'll mingle their seat with the seat of man and how that comes to ten kings and the modern-day hybrid non i thought as a person of that prophecy or chak gave me that idea so i was going with this it's called the dispensationalist futuristic eschatology which means that you believe that all of the prophecies of the end times are fulfilled in the period of history

where Israel becomes a nation again. But then the thought came to me, what if there has been this seat of the serpent throughout the ages, like the parable of the wheat and tears? Could I now go back to the ancient, you know, birthplaces of the Nephilim kings of the past and traced them into the modern day bloodlines and discover? And so that was the idea of that documentary. So can we do an episode on that? Because that is, I'm being serious.

I would, we would love that. I mean, that sounds. Yeah. Right. Yeah, absolutely. Amazing. Okay. We need to do that.

Right now what I'm working on is where the Lord is that means a fiction. I'm writing a fiction. And I'm intending this fiction to the masses of the people that are unchurched or go to churches that are more traditional and they never talk about these things. because now that I came suddenly, you know, the Lord called me to talk about these things. There are all these other gentlemen and ladies who've been talking about this stuff to the church. There are groups of pockets of, you know, whether it is Elia Marzuli or Dr. Heiser or, you know, Derek Gilbert. So my calling has always been, I see with hindsight, to kind of go for the lost sheep and the masses of people that are outside

because I think I came from that place and I have the skills to communicate with them. I understand how to formulate my words in a way that resonates with them. So I'm writing a fiction that tells the story of the discoveries of the documentary. And then after that, I'm writing a book, God willing, about the three princes. This is a revelation, a new revelation that the Lord has given me that is not yet spoken of. Maybe other people will get it too. But this is, I found the trunk. You know, the root was determined me 32, 8 and 9.

That's the root verse. but now I have found the trunkers. From the trunk, the branches emerge into the architecture of scripture. We're going to be writing by the three princes, the prince of Persia, the prince of Greece, and the prince of Israel. Okay, that's the third episode we need to do. So this is, like I said, Lord of the Rings, and then we're going to go back to Simon. This has been unbelievable. Yeah, appreciate it.

So let our listeners know because hopefully, I mean, as long as you still like us, This hopefully can be part one. Yeah, it's going to be part one of our. Everyone has to go. So basically, please go to my website, think againproductions.com. Watch the documentary. It's there. You can watch it.

74 minutes. Leave a donation at the bottom of the page. It's free. Sign up for the newsletter. Stay informed. Beyond that, if you double click to go to Patreon, if you double click on the documentary, it'll take you my YouTube page and there are videos there that you can watch.

You can sign up for the YouTube page. You go to Patreon. I'm doing your audio series and Google Revelation. and you can support me on Patreon, you can support my ministry for a one-time donation or a regular thing. And I'm also doing a trip to Israel. And I know everyone's like, what are you talking about? I don't want to hear about Israel. Yes, you don't want to, but you will next year.

So the dates are obviously going to change because we're not going to go for December. But if you want to come to Israel with us, let me know walking the setting of the Word of God. It is so moving to be by the Sea of Galilee and worshiped Lord. you have no idea how moving and powerful it is to be in the place. Yeah. Anyhow, thank you so much, guys. We're serious. I mean, as long as you don't, as long as you think we're okay, dudes, like, we'd love to do this again.

I think there's... I'll come back as many times as you want. Well, you're the man. I'm on show. This has been awesome, man. Yeah, if it wasn't for Heiser, we wouldn't be a podcast, so it's kind of cool to hear you, tell your side of the story. Yes, yes, yes.

And he was a great teacher. very knowledgeable mann. And he and he came up with the whole idea of the council of the going back to some. And I hadn't seen that. I wasn't focused on, I mean, wow,

these guys are real. They're ever to work? Yeah. He's a big fantasy football guy too, so we've stuck about that. And it means a lot to us that you, you cared enough to stick around for a couple hours and talk to us, dummies,

because I feel like you, you've talked to a lot of people and you've done a lot of research. So we appreciate you spending some time with us. You guys are easy to talk to. Yeah. Yeah, it's been three years of this. So we kind of know, we're there. We understand what you're saying, but it's taken us a long time to get there.

And I think our listeners will like this one a lot. So, yeah. Thanks so much, Ali. Thank you for time. Thanks so much. We'll do this again. We'll email you. We'll get back on the calendar.

It might be, yeah, I'll bother you. I promise I will. All right. Thank you. Thanks, Ali. Appreciate it, brother. Have a good night. Good night.