Blurry Creatures - EP: 211 Bigfoot is a Gateway Drug with John Crist

Episode Date: December 21, 2023

Step into the world of laughter with the hilarious John Crist for a crossover episode with his podcast Net Positive. Get ready for a rollercoaster of laughter and insight as John Crist starts to embraces the blurred lines between comedy and the blurryverse. Does John believe in Bigfoot? Listen now. Guest: https://johncristcomedy.com Intro song: Sunglasses Kid contact: [e-mail] blurrycreatures.com Socials instagram.com/blurrycreatures facebook.com/blurrycreatures twitter.com/blurrycreatures Music Kyle Monroe: tinytaperoom.com Aaron Green: https://www.instagram.com/aaronkgreen/ Mastering: ironwingstudios.com Outro Song: TimeCop1983: timecop1983.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

So often people email us and they have this story. They're out in their woods and they're looking in the bushes and they go, what's that? And when you are pouring your dog food and your dog's bowl, that's the last thing you want to say. What is that? What is this stuff coming out of this bag? You know, I don't think a lot of us think about maybe what we feed our dogs. And that's why we partner with rough greens.

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Welcome back to Blurray. Creatures. This week we're going to have a cross-over episode with John Christ from Net Positive podcast. I'm sure you've seen John's stuff on the internet, hilarious guy, comedian, and he was cool enough to have us in the studio. Let's talk. All Things Blurry. We got into it. We had a fun time. So check out this podcast, Net Positive. And if you haven't become a member of our show, blurrycreatures.com slash members, get access to 50 plus episodes, bonus episodes that are unreleased and support the show and all the work we do here. But we had an end of a year, last episode of the year was with John. We kind of went out with the bang, had some good laughs.

So this is our episode we did with John. Hope you like it. The history of our earth is so different from what we can imagine. The Smithsonian that if they found out about a large skeleton somewhere was to go get it. I'm going to assume at least one person is right. Because if one person's right, it bust the paradigm. It all goes back to the phone chair. And the problem with the model. And the problem with the they have a very truncated view of the supernatural. This backdrop that's just pregnant with all kinds of meaning associated with this Mount Herman event.

And this guy defects from the kingdom. That's a big deal. Is this a Christmas episode? No. No. Week before. This is an anti-Christmas episode, actually. Nathan Henry and Luke Rogers are in the house, ladies and gentlemen.

Yes, sir. Yeah. Oh, yeah, we clap for our guests. Okay, let's go. I'm happy to have you. I like Nathan's very formal as well. Yeah, that's right. I'll say if you're watching on video and you were like,

what would be the costume of two dudes that would have this podcast? It would be all black. Ninja. We didn't play in this. That's how you guys are just dressed? Yeah. You're listening. Sliming.

You know, it's that time of year and it's slimming. Top to bottom. Well, our feet aren't on it. So it's top to bottom black. He's wearing all black. I'm wearing some color to the room. But hosts, co-host, do you guys call us? You know, yourself said?

Oh, yeah. co-host of the internationally popular blurry creatures podcast. That's right. And a lot of people have been asking for this episode. Big time. Oh, yeah. Because we talked about, what do we talk about? We got into some geography, which then led to flat earth theories.

Yeah, but they don't, they don't discuss that. They don't discuss that. Which led to just everything was open. Look at them. Their mouths are closed. That's fun. Yeah. But, but, well, tell us, before we get into anything, tell us about your podcast and generally

what it's about. Yeah. So, I mean, we talk. talk about Bigfoot giants, Nephlim, Mothman, aliens, UFOs, all the weird stuff. Nephlin from the Bible. Yeah. All through a biblical perspective and paradigm. So we kind of like, you know, church on steroids, but like we just, anything that's weird

and crazy, we go to the next level. Do we have to pray before this episode? No. No. He said no. He goes, no, definitely. Please don't. We don't have to.

No, we don't. Yeah. Well, it's interesting because we obviously, we, we. conspiracy theories are funny, I feel like, because I like to dabble in them. Like I just like to hear them. They're fun for me to listen to. But then sometimes when one of them is like you get a piece of information that it becomes, wait, this might be real. Yeah, more than the theory.

Yes. Then you just kind of like, I remember like just going out and like sit. I got to go to my car. I just got to sit there first. Which one was that? The birds aren't real. Was that the one that? I haven't heard that one.

I have a bird's art. Hey, these get wild. I know. I saw one yesterday, and I was thinking it would be fun to ask you at some point what your favorite, what's your favorite weird conspiracy theory is. But there's one I saw, and I don't know who was covering it, but it was that Michael Jackson faked his own death. And then he went on Larry King Live with all these burns on as some other person to let his fans know that he's still alive. I was like this. It's wild.

Well, I think there's a, how do you say, there's like a difference between. between like, but let me start this whole thing by saying, if you are a Christian, if you're a believer in Christ in the Bible, you by default, believe in some spiritual natural, supernatural, supernatural or other worldly activity. Yeah, correct. I think that's kind of by default, you, we believe in that. That's where, I think that's where our podcast sort of, this is a journey podcast, John. So we started with Bigfoot and kind of what is this, this thing. And the reason you start there is that of all the weird stuff yeah um that that creature's seen the most and and yet they'd have them pulled a body it's the most popular yeah and the most part and the most

scene and the most culturally accepted so you can start there and go hey like this everybody knows a bigfoot yeah yeah and and so many people have seen it i can't tell you how many times you brought people on our show to talk about something else yeah and they have a big foot story it's like this is crazy how many people have actually seen this thing yeah and they're talking like moms um yeah people with no interest in this creature, we'll talk about it. And you're just like, okay, there's so much more there. And I started getting into this more because I was listening to a Bigfoot podcast just to like,

so it was something different to listen to while I was remodeling houses. And all these theologians kept coming on these shows talking about like, yeah, yeah, like ancient history that's kind of been rewritten and sort of biblical history that's sort of stuffed under the mattress of there were these hybrids going around in Noah's time. And it's like, wait, what? And as a Christian kid, Christian school kid, I grew up Southern Baptist. I was like, wait a minute, this is the best thing I've ever heard in my life. This makes a lot of sense.

And I think what we've found is that a lot of people have walked away from their faith because they don't understand the supernatural stories in the Bible. And they don't believe them. And so we kind of give people permission, hey, you can believe the weird stuff. It's actually, that's the good stuff. That's the, if it's, the Bible is more legitimate because it includes the weird. Instead of, yeah. Well, instead of just, everybody would be on.

We talk about this in the pod. time if you're like if you're like pro cop or anti cop or pro choice or probably everybody's on this pen on this spectrum somewhere right of like all right i've seen big football with my own eyes all right and then there's a guy it could be maybe i've heard some stories absolutely i'm open to the possibility of it happening no way right so everybody's on here so if you ask me do i is there is there a possibility that there's something that we don't know about. Yes. Well, this is good, John, because you're actually, you're a pro. So you're leading it right. And so we start every, yeah, we start every show. Yeah, baby. We start every show on Blurray Creatures. We're 200 plus

episodes in here. And we ask all of our guests. Okay. What are your thoughts on Bigfoot? So, and you're right. So there is a spectrum. So we have got everybody from like Tim Mackie from the Bible project who said, I've never thought about it to people that have these really advanced. Yeah. And the thing about Tim, we always bring this up, but he's in the Pacific Northwest. And you're like, dude, this is, you're like in the, he's in your backyard. You're in the apex of the vortex, man. This is where it's at, you know. Or even if, let's say you're out on, out on big foot, you are in on, well, there might be

something in the ocean or there might, you can't. You tell me everything we know of we've seen. Is expendable also? No, dude. Yeah. So I don't know. Yeah. So what are your thoughts, John?

Look at that. I do see a lot of, I've seen those videos on bar. a stool. It's not a great start. You're like, I've seen those barstall videos. I've seen those videos of barstil and you're like a guy walking across like the desert. You'd be like that looks like a human in a costume. And then it turns out it was a human in a costume.

Yeah. But I have heard like stories of people that are like that they like, if you have the interaction, whether it's Bigfoot or UFOs, you're like that they're like scared to talk about it. They're like, no, I'm not here to like joke. Like, I saw, I for sure saw something that was, that was, cannot be explained. And I'm scared. That's like Tucker Carlson talks about that. He's like, I'm legit scared to open this door because that is, it is, if I have to agree that that is possible, then my whole framework of existing comes undone.

So this, then this is the thing. I think this is, when we talk about our show, it's like the church itself doesn't address a lot of these things. Because they're uncomfortable. Like your pastor, like you want to ask your pastor about Genesis 6, 6, 1 through 4. And that's something that's easy that you want to skip over, first Peter, where. That's right at the beginning. Where Christ goes and preaches to the imprisoned angels. And you go, what is this about?

And those things are easy to kind of skip over because there are conversations that become a little uncomfortable. Genesis 6'4 being the idea that's the idea that's, you know, sons of God, saw the daughters of men, and you have this angelic. Lord of the Rings stuff. And then you have giants, right? And so in those conversations, paranormal is a term I think has been abused. I was going to say, that's not even probably the right. No, but it's just things that aren't outside of normal stuff.

Even supernatural is kind of doesn't really make sense. I mean, because everything is supernatural technically when you interview these people. And I think on our show, it's interesting because we ask a lot of doctors. what are your thoughts on Bigfoot? And doctors have thoughts. People who are professionals in other realms of interests and wrote books about other things are like, yeah, you know, I've done the research

and this is legitimate. And I think one thing that we do on our show is, you know, conspiracies and conspiracy theories are different. Like, conspiracies have been proven. Like, basically it's been coming out. JFK was assassinated by our own. That's not really a conspiracy theory anymore. And we just lost YouTube.

Yeah, that's it. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. It's, like, dude, what happened to John? I don't know. I know. We got some strikes this week on YouTube already. But my point is, is like, eventually they'd just become conspiracies.

And, you know, people don't, there's never an update. They never sent out a new, this conspiracy theory is now a conspiracy. It's true. It's like not fact checked anymore. It's just like, wait. What? Yeah. And we do data.

We try to bring the, like, we started with Bigfoot, right? We brought on the Bigfoot scientists. Like, I got, I'm the premier. I can't remember what his title was. he's like basically a foot expert. He's like, I got the casts. Wait, are they abbreviated? Just foot footers?

What do you mean the foot expert? Like big foot guy, like Rex Ryan. Like a foot guy. He's a foot guy. Anthropologist. I'm not there yet. I don't think on the spectrum. I don't think I'm there.

That is one in the spectrum for sure. It takes a time to get there. He's a big foot guy. But he said, no, but it was like, you know, we started with a scientist and we tried to like prove that like, hey, there's more to this than just. It's just like some guy in the backwoods is like, hey, I saw this thing in my backyard. We started with credible sources, and I think we built a pretty good case. And then we moved on to like the ancient giant phenomenon, how people are still seeing them.

And there's all these modern stories of people going to caves in Afghanistan running into these things. So we go, well, where do the giants come from? These things are actually being still seen today. Is this related to Bigfoot? And then all of a sudden you dive into the Nephilim topic. Oh, yeah. Which Christians either totally embrace or they think it's insane. one of the two.

All right, so like, ghost hunters on discovery. Like, that's obviously real. Yeah. No. Wait, is it?

I think that they're dabbing with supernatural stuff because there's ones where... When they're hearing stuff, you know the show I'm talking about. Well, spirits are real, right? We know spirits are real. The demons in the Bible talked about. I agree on that.

Yeah. So... That show with the guys like, I hear something. Yeah, I mean, some of that stuff you... Oh, yeah. It's sensationalized, for sure.

There may be stuff that they are creating for a show. But the reality of the things that, Some of those things that occur, those things actually happen. And you go, you go, so you look at like, we were talking about this last week. We talked about this on the phone yesterday. So I went down to, like you talk about, let's say Tucker Carlson or you talk, we went, I went down to the Duck Dynasty. I was on their podcast last week, Alex.

And like those guys are like literally hunting for ducks. They have plenty of money. They're not even on social media. And I go, these guys have no. reason to lie to you. They are, they don't, they don't need popularity. They don't need money. They don't, they have, like, they have no reason to lie to you. So you can trust the words that they are saying. Tucker Carlson is, no incentive. They're not trying to write a book. Yeah, there's no incentive. Tucker Carlson is out, he's not work for Fox News anymore. He's totally on his

own. Right. He doesn't need, not the, and you can say he could break from what you agree with or not. Like, if you look at somebody that has a supernatural experience, and you have to, the Bible talks a lot of this, discern these. But somebody has a story. They go, do I have no reason to lie to you. Sometimes it feels like when you get that phone bill, it's like the crash site document. You can't read it. There's a bunch of numbers, random fees, vague language, stuff's blacked out. You're like, what am I actually paying for?

I don't know about you, but I like keeping my money working. I can see it. I like to be simple. I like to be easy. I'm going to be throwing away money on big wireless carriers. You too can say goodbye to overpaying for wireless, get a simple bill. And that's where Mint Mobile comes in. So stop overpaying for wireless just because that's how it's always been. That's what you do. Mint Mobile offers premium wireless service for a fraction of what the big carriers charge. And you get to keep your phone number. Get to keep your coverage, most importantly. And it runs on the nation's largest 5G network. So the question becomes, why has everyone been acting like this has to be expensive. It doesn't have to be. Dr. Judd Burton's out there

dialing up blurry every day giving us the scoop on what's going on in the academic world and the ancient world on Mitt Mobile. Loud and clear on the job sites, way out in the middle of nowhere, Texas. And if you want to save money, just like the illustrious Dr. Judd Burton, switch to Mint Mobile. If you like your money, say where it is. Mittmobiles for you. Shop plans at mintmobile.com slash blurry. That's mintmobile.com slash blurry. upfront payment of $45 for a three-month five-gigabyte plan required equivalent to $15 a month new customer offer for first three months only then full price plan options available taxes and fees extra cement mobile for details yeah i think those are the most compelling i think we talk about that's what i'm like the hunters right and this is why i think it's most interesting is you have hunters that these are he's like i'm not even a flatterer i'm not even a guys i've been the woods my whole eyes i've seen everything i know if it's a bear i know if it's a moose i know and it's not that yeah and then they don't tell anybody because There's a social stigma.

And there's also this thing like you start, anytime you have a really extraordinary experience, I think that that's weird. Yeah. There's this default that once it's happened, people try to talk themselves out of irrationalize. And you get to a part where you can't rationalize this, and then they don't tell anyone.

And then when they do tell somebody, you go, you're not, look, this isn't for clout. You're not writing a book. You're not trying to. I have no, this isn't a documentary. You've got real no reason, you really have no reason to, to make this up because there's no personal gain attached to this, right?

And also, what do you gain in us? Except that you're now out as someone who said, yeah, I've seen X, Y, Z. And it could be, it's the same thing with UFOs and aliens, abductions, all those things that we end up inevitably covering. But our goal with all of this is to, all the weird stuff is to contextualize it within a biblical worldview. Because I do believe that there is, for Christians, especially there is a knee-jerk reaction. There's something that falls outside of the fences you've built for your faith.

that it's just to throw it out. Or I'm just put my head in saying, this is not something I want to talk about. Or this automatically is just demons. Or I got to go to get groceries. So I can't, I can't, or I got bills to pay. Yes, that's cool. Yeah.

Don't we all do that in something? To some extent about things, you're like, it's easier just to compartmentalize and not deal with that. Well, you kind of have to, you need sort of something that kind of slow drip. Yeah. That's why we started with Bigfoot.

Okay. It's kind of weird. Slow drip. But it's kind of maybe it's just an animal. I have to like go to your like course in Peru and I like live with them. They're like, dude, I think I've like, it starts. This is how it starts. Yeah.

And we're both like taking their classes. Yeah, they're like, hey, you just got to drink this cool. I'm like, what? Yeah. You know, just got it. Yeah. You can't. 99.95.

My podcast starts being coming about this. You're like, dude, they got me, bro. Like our last episode, we did one where he's a pastor. He works with satanic ritual abuse victims. Okay. And he was talking about how your soul can be fractured in pieces and traded on like spiritual supernatural trade routes and it's you can't start there nah that's you cannot yeah you can't do you start there and it's like and it's start there but even if half of what this guy is saying is

true i mean you have to expand your paradigm right in the moment so i think that's the hardest part for luke and i's in the interview we have to expand our paradigms a lot to go is this guy just totally full of it or is this true and if it is true what do we do with it so you guys are sizing us up and figuring out how far we're going to be able to go well that that is that is that is a lot of you And like, I think we're, our podcast is on a journey too. So we're in real time doing Sega, he thinks we're listening to these people who, you know, we've tried to bring people on as Nate said that have the 10,000 hours. So they've written books. They spent the time on it. It still is oftentimes, at least, you know, for me and I know for Nate, there's like a,

there's this leap to being like, I don't know. I mean, and this person, this is their platform and they're using it to explain their thesis. But I don't know if I'm there yet. And I think that the Bible's very specific on the, the Johnson's supposed to test the spirits and we're supposed to, you know, spit out the bones, two of the meat, spit out the bones. And I think when you're working in the realm of the unknown and things that don't have like a concrete answer, we can't pull, we don't have a body to pull all the woods for Bigfoot yet, right? For example.

Until you have that, you're just doing, you're working on the best evidence. Yeah. Well, the, I've talked about this. Or do. I talk about this all the time is that when I was in, I've told this story before, I was in a, on the way to New Jersey, in an Uber on the way of the airport. And you saw him. No, I didn't see him.

Okay. Well, this is, so the guy goes, I always meant conversation with the Uber drivers because I'm a good person. 5.0 rating, by the way. Thank you. I told the story before. I go, where are you from? And he goes, Abadabad. He said he's from Abadabat.

Afghanistan. Yeah. I go, oh, Bada bad about, isn't that where bin Laden was from? He goes, yeah. And he goes, dude, bin Laden died in like 2004 of cancer. Wow. And he goes, there's no way. that they invaded, like Obama was trying to win the election.

I mean, this is, I'm not saying I believe this. This is what he told me. This is what an Afghan told you. Yes, he goes, this is a small, it's a small village in the desert. He goes, but we hated bin Laden. We, he was an extreme, we didn't like him either. If he would have lived there, we would have known. And there's no way he lived there.

And he goes, bin Laden or Obama was trying to win the election. He needed that W to get re-eastern. elected, they flew over in the middle of the night, took him out in the darkness and then threw him into the ocean. Yeah, they buried him at sea. He goes, that's not a true story. And I don't think I believe that, but I did, I've been up nights thinking about that. But you can't. No. And that's all you are asking is that you're saying, yeah, consider this. And that's what's scary, like, that's a scary story to even say. But I think, because, yeah, we talked about this yesterday on the phone, right? But John, I think the thing with

all of this, right? And that's, sort of an outlier. No, hey. But I think he's like, I don't go. He's like, that's not going. No, no. I can, I can go there. Yeah.

But I think what's important when we start to talk about supernatural things, especially in our show, is that our whole goal is to contextualize it within a biblical worldview. So we as Christians, and you alluded to this at the beginning, if we're really real about our faith, we believe a lot of wild stuff. There's a lot of weird things in the Bible. We believe in an immaculate conception, an incarnate Christ, a resurrection. None of these things have ever been seen before or after, by the way. So these are amazing.

Jesus tells the future. Yeah. He says, you know, you're going to deny me. You're going to turn on me. I mean, how does he know those things? And I think a lot of times people come back to their faith because a lot of people walk away from, let's look at the giant issue. Giants are all over the Old Testament.

It's a big problem. David and Goliath is like a snapshot. You know, God commands, you know, these people to just be wiped out. Yeah. How is that even justifiable? Well, you kind of look at it. you're like, these weren't human beings. Yeah.

Technically, they were hybrids. Yeah. And they were doing satanic witchcraft in ways and doing defiling themselves and ways we can't even comprehend today. So we look at the sort of the giant narrative from everything from Smithsonian covering up history. There's newspaper archives. There's mounds and there's, you know, they find giant skeletons in these mounds in America. How is that possible?

And they, everything is sort of hidden from us. I think that's kind of by design. Like they hide this this information, this history. So we're kind of an alternate history show as well. And, you know, it's all kind of tied together in this weird way like giants, aliens, Bigfoot UFOs. It's like it's all kind of in this, you know, you see these threads kind of connecting and you go, oh man, I didn't, I didn't think that we'd be talking about these things.

Yeah. But it's connected. And we have to. If it's in the book that we believe it. Right. It is in there. We should. We should, right? I mean, that's... And you have to, by default, you have to have a stance on it. Yeah, correct. It is in there. Like, if he's, like Jesus, I've heard all kind of like, if you don't think that, that person, you could say he's the son of God, he's not, that person existed. Yeah. Yes. There's a bunch of extra biblical accounts as well. Of that man. And you say he's the son of God, he's not the son of God. He's a normal guy. He was a whatever he was. Are we all agreeing that that guy existed? Yeah. Okay, then what then... Well, at least you and I do.

Nathan. Yeah, well, we're still praying for him. If my mom listens to this podcast, so she's praying for you now. So then all these things are in the Bible and you go, well, you're a Christian by nature. You believe in this book. Yes. So what are your thoughts on the giants in the Old Testament? You have to, and I never really thought about it.

Well, and I think this, listen, like the problem, I think in some ways for the modern, this is the West, especially specifically the West. We're going to ask you, though. we're going to ask you. Is that we live in a bubble in the West. We have divorced ourselves by and large in the West from the supernatural, right? This is not a problem in sub-Saharan Africa or South America or these other places on the map right now. I've been everywhere. Because listen, like when you are sick in Haiti or sub-Saharan Africa, you go to the witch doctor, right?

And people get healed. It still happens on that side, right? And if- I'm in on that. And if you're a missionary- on that. And there's all these stories about missionaries that go out and what they do is they come to these remote villages and they say we don't want you. We serve our God. And we've heard a number of these stores that which I love to retell. But what inevitably ends up happening, it seems,

is that someone gets sick and the witch doctor can't heal them. Right. And so there's a phone call or a messenger shows up and the missionary and says, hey, can you help? And almost without fail, these stories go, the missionary goes up, they pray for this person and they're healed and the entire village converse because they live in a paradigm where they're not they you're the your god is stronger is more powerful. We're now going to serve your your God is more powerful. It's it's supernatural paradigm. Yep. Yep. Yep. That happened all through the Bible did by the way. And we're in the west. I think there was a lot of atheists and agnostic types in the Old Testament. And then they all believed something. Yeah. But they believed in their God. Yeah. And I think one of the things we talk about

on our show is that, you know, we were kind of grew up thinking gods were these golden calves. Yeah. But why would it, why would it, why? Why would a nation be seduced to go to another nation's gods if they weren't actually offering them anything or giving them anything? It's just this, hey, we showed up and it's just this gold statue. Oh, no, they're actually entities. There is some kind of power or some kind of. Yes. Otherwise, you don't have a transaction. You don't worship that thing. Why would you? Right. And the idol was just like an, it was sort of like a, they used the idol to get the entity to come into the idols.

The idol was possessed by something. It wasn't, uh, yeah, it wasn't the idol itself as much as it was what's in living in this idol. And they used that as sort of a conduit to get this. being to come into it and then they worship that. So they're actually worshipping beings and I think you know one of the commandments don't have any other gods before me. Yeah. Why would you have a commandment? That's the first most of a you know like a make believe God. It doesn't make sense. There actually had to have been something. And in the West now like we were we live in this post enlightenment academic era right where we rationalized everything and what's hard is that the Bible was so supernatural. There's things that aren't don't make rational.

sense, right? We live in this empirical age where we have to measure everything. And you, in the West, we've at least divorced ourselves a lot from that supernatural, which is really hard for the church, because if that's the cultural paradigm we live in, our faith is very supernatural. So you have this problem then, right? So you go to church, maybe you just get a, and sadly, in some places, this is not a broad brush, but in some places you get a, you know, it's a feel-good, like, self-help, like motivational speech. And it doesn't incorporate a lot of, and so then when of the supernatural, so when you reach these points in the Bible, you either just skip over them or you go,

I don't know what to do with that. And so I think... He's kind of brushed aside. I think it's important context. So we want to go back and look at the scripture. What does the scripture say? What is the author referring to in the language to the audience of that time? We're talking thousands of years ago.

So their supernatural paradigm, much like outside of the West right now is that it's real. And there are entities and things that it's, exist that are quote supernatural, right? And so we are in this weird sort of time where we've tried, we've attempted to rationalize all that away. And even in the church, we sort of the things that are, talk about it. Well, and the things, what's really maybe more funny, if you will, not funny a, but just odd is that we have, we believe in all these very, very miraculous supernatural things as the basis for our faith. And, and yet those have become normal.

Like, oh, it's, we can, Jesus in a manger, Jesus shows up. you know, and he's resurrected. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you go, that's a miraculous. That's a crazy story. Right. And then Matthew, when Christ is resurrected, the dead come out of their tombs and walk around.

How many times you got that on Easter? That's in there. It's in the same story. All these like zombies walking around. I think a lot of people do is they just say, oh, wow, that's just like a fairy tale. That's just their mythology. These things aren't actually true.

But you're like, okay, well, the Greeks are writing about the same things. All these different ancient, you know, people groups are. are talking about the flood, they're talking about all these similar things. Like, they were all just making it all up. And now we in this day know everything. It's kind of like. Or what would be the, yeah, what would be the motivate?

I mean, I remember in my high school, the Bible teacher or whatever, you know, when you're in high school, you think the Bible teacher is like this like, you know, he has a doctor. He's just like a guy. Yeah. It turns out he was like, he's 26. Yeah. Isn't that funny?

Anything. Dude, the older you get, like, I thought I was thinking about my high school teachers. And I'm like, they were younger than me now. I thought my, dude, I thought my, miss, what's her name? I don't got to put her out on this podcast. Come on. Miss Martinez, Ms. Martinez was my, oh, there she is. She's listening. Miss Martinez was my, and what's the other lady's name? Shout out, Miss Martinez. I don't know, but they were like my Spanish teacher.

Is it Spanish at Amish school? Come on, dude. This is that not necessary. I went to Christian high school after the office. After we left the Amish. all right but we were like this is my first time learning like another language this was like another world yeah and like she spoke Spanish but she just like went to Spain on like a grad school trip we thought she was like from a different like she was 21 she was like our friend like we were like this is not a anyway but our Bible teacher said because we were talking about you know, the Bible and then they were talking about all the other,

this is why evolution's not true. This is why this is not true. And I go, what do, I never forget asking this. I go, what do the critics say why ours is not true? What are, if you're in evolution, if you're in atheists high school. You're an evolutionary biologist, yeah. If you're in, if you go to atheist high school, that'd be a wild high school. Yeah.

Where do you go? What's your mascot? Yeah. Yeah. AHS. Nothing. Nothing is high school. Nothing is a nasty.

Yeah. Nothing. Aniless. We believe in nothing. Yeah. We don't have one. Well, let's play the basketball game. Who cares?

But he was like... There's no reason, no purpose. No reason to play. So I go, what is the atheist? What is their criticism of ours? And he goes, well, God. So like a super knight, a virgin birth can't happen. It can, under our framework of,

there is a almighty, all-powerful God. So, like, how did a coin get in the fish's mouth? In the God? How did the Red Sea part? How did all these things happen? Well, how did this... How do Balam Zonki talk? And I think one of the things that we do on our show,

I think that's why we start with sort of modern day sightings of weird stuff. A lot of people see UFOs. It's clear as day. Some people say they're the size of buildings, and they just float overhead, and they tell, they have nobody to talk to. And the person that says seeing it is not saying a word because they're terrified. Exactly.

The person that's like, I saw it, are like, all right. Like, now I'm talking about the barstool people again. Right, right. They are looking for a cloud. Sure. Not cloud, but they're. In this time, though, I mean, think about, it's been really interesting because, you know, we started this podcast in 2020 and in the last year, we've had, I mean, the UFO topic.

The COVID was a conspiracy. I'm just kidding. I'm joking. You're now off of YouTube permanently. There it is. You said this place was steps from the water. We just haven't found the steps yet. How much did we save?

Enough. Enough to get lost. Or you could book a stay with Hilton. Welcome to your ocean front room. Just steps from the water. The Hilton sale is on now. Book on Hilton.com or the Hilton app and save up to 20% to get the stay you expected.

When you want savings, not surprises. It matters where you stay. Hilton for this day. You will get, you will get a strike. Just joking. Listen, this year has been wild, right?

Like, all of a sudden we had a house oversight committee. We have our government and we have whistleblowers coming out of these these top secret jobs with legal protections. Yeah. Who aren't taking the stance to the government that are blowing the whistle saying these things are happening. So, I mean, what a time. Like we are talking about these things. And so as Christians, right?

So what are we meant to think about these? Yeah. Right? And it's very easy just to brush these off and say it's all, it's all demons. It's all demonic manifestations. It's all this and then just put it away. But the reality is that if we believe, you know, what these whistleblows are saying at their own peril, they're hiding in person, right? Then you have to start considering what's going on.

So I think it's so important regardless of where you fall on that spectrum we talked about, that you discuss these things, contextualize these things. because if you don't, I think inevitably the world will tell you what to believe and how to believe it. And they're more than willing to disciple you and what you're supposed to believe, right? But how does that fall in line with our beliefs? If we make the Bible and the biblical narrative of our foundation of our faith, which it is, what does it say about these things? And surprisingly, I think it says a lot about about what we can think about things like disclosure and what's happening right now. in, you know, because the craziest thing, too, and I think you probably even talked about this, is that

we're almost at, like, disclosure of, of UFOs and all these things being real, and yet it seems to not even blip, really, in social consciousness, they don't care. Their paradigms will blow up. And I think what we're, what I was trying to say was, like, the weird never left. It's always been weird. This whole thing is weird.

What we're doing here is strange. When you think about what's, what's taking place right now as, as humankind on a planet, you know. And all the weird stuff is kind of, have always been in the background, but I think in ancient times it was just more prevalent. It was just more... It was socially acceptable. Socially acceptable, but and you didn't really...

You had stuff walking amongst you. You know, you had, you know, real crazy supernatural stuff happening in nations and they were war against each other. I mean, they just think about the, you know, kind of ancient Egypt and the pyramid. So we talk about the pyramids, about how insane these things are. You're talking one block... I've seen them. I've seen it with my own eyes.

They are real. I've been there. And they're, they're, that's how far on the spectrum I am. I have been there. I have seen them. And they,

and nobody asks the why question. Why do they, why do they build these things? I mean, they're massive. Yeah. You're talking one block every five minutes for 20 years just to build the one and Giza.

And, and, you know, sort of our modern science will say, oh, this is how maybe they did it. But they never ask why. And I think that you got to stop and think that this would have taken literally

every resource and these blocks aren't close and they would have to, this thing is, mathematically perfect. How did the ancient people have this knowledge to build these things? And so we're told that humans were dumb, cavemen, and now we're slowly getting smarter. And they deny all this

ancient tech. You've been to Peru. You've seen some of the ancient tech. And we see sort of the remnants of the golden age. I think that's what the pyramids are. Some of the things in Peru are. There was this time when knowledge was everywhere, and it wasn't human knowledge. It was

from the kingdom of heaven that somehow got to us. And you see this in the scriptures too. It's like, oh, there was this imparting of knowledge that we weren't supposed to have. I mean, that's basically the Genesis story is, you know, we ate from this tree and we got, we started to think differently and we became different. But entities were influencing humans from the beginning. We were getting knowledge and we were getting having interactions with technically extraterrestrial beings. non-human entities. They're not. Right. And so, so ETs isn't that crazy to think. It just means off

earth. Yeah. And so by definition, angels, it's a great movie. Well, by definition, angels are, are not of earth. We are, right? This is our, this is our dominion, our place. We were, we were created, as the Bible says to subdue the earth and all. It's what Adam in his, and his line is to do the earth and all it in it. Right. So, I mean, by definition, if we're supposed to contextualize some of these things, angels are not of earth. In fact, Job says that the sons of God, which is the same Hebrew language that's used repeatedly for what we call angels, which is Greek for Messenger, right? It's just a job title.

That these are not, they're not, they're of heaven, not of earth, right? So what, and this is what's crazy, right? Is that in this time, the other sort of nerve around this narrative is the ancient aliens one, right, which is very, very much close to what the Bible says, but it's just saying that these are ETs. They're from another planet, and they came in, they planted us here, and they gave us this knowledge. Yeah, which is totally exploding. You have these UFO religions.

I mean, like millions and millions and millions of views. And that is a narrative that I think that the world would like you to sort of buy into if you're interested at all. But the realities, I think, is that we look at the Bible and we say, oh, these things were happening. These were sons of God. So these were the angelic race, if you will. And there was this interaction. And you've been to Peru. It's funny.

John and I ran to each other when we were going to our trip in the airport like five in the morning. Oh, you were going to Peru. Yeah, I took it. I'm like, you're going to Sacramento. I was probably going to Sacramento. And like, we're going to Peru. You're like, you're going to Peru. Both demonic places.

Now, I'm just kidding. I grew up in Sa. That's why I'm on the show. But I think that's what Nate's getting at is like you've gone in touch like the stones in Peru. They have these polygonal walls. They call them cyclopean architecture where you have these stones that appear to have been shaped. They fit together with not mortar. Fit together like puzzle pieces.

Like butter. And yet. And then you look at the ink and stuff that comes after and it's worse. And so you go, there's these things that there's these clues that technology and engineering was worse. Yeah. It should go from worse to better as we progress in time. But in places like the megaliths. Just like grandpa knew all those things.

We don't know how to do anymore, you know? Yeah. Just like at atheist high school. Atheist high school. Well, all right. Well, you go, like, I'm trying to think we have like a segmented out for. everything. So like I got a car guy, right? I got a house guy. I got my doctor. I got my therapist. Like you farm out these. So you go, when somebody told me about like compound interest

for like money, you go, okay, wait, everything I learned about money is false. You should do this with money. And then I go, my car, I was going to, let's say, you should put synthetic oil in it and then the other guy goes you should definitely not put synthetic oil in your car so you go all right now i have to think right like my doctor who i trust with my i went i told this story before i think he goes this is last year my doctor and you can think whatever you want on this he goes you know you're are you drinking i go no he's like he exercise yeah if you're doing well you should probably eat better and he goes and i would also recommend that you should get the covid vaccine and this has nothing to this podcast But or I go, wait, what?

And I've had it twice already and recovery. It was no problem. And all the things they, you go, the point is, oh, now I have to. I trusted this guy with all of my. And there's this thing that makes you be like, wait a minute. And now you have to go, huh. So if you go, I read this thing on, I tell my girlfriend, I read something on Twitter last night is like renting is definitely better than buying a house.

Dude, I've seen the same thing. I go, that's the crazy. thing I've ever heard. I was like, I'm looking at this information and I'm reading, I go, I got to click on these and I'm reading these comments and I go, okay, like if I'm in the airport during 2020, there's a guy in a full hazmat suit and me with nothing. And we're looking at the same information. So we have to make these, you trusted the government or you trusted your car guy or you trusted

your pastor. And unfortunately, people leave their church because they go, I was with my pastor on this, this, this, this, and this. And then he started on this. And now, what I have to do now is think for myself. And I didn't want to. Right. So now he goes, we should do this with the poor, this with your money, this with your family. And this with your, and you go. And that's what the Bible is talking about. You're just you have to now. Yeah. And no one wants to do that. No one wants to do that. No, we live in a time. Everybody wants to be told what to do. Yeah, so the government knows what's best. We're highly specialized.

We have a highly specialized culture. Yeah. And so let's say you have a problem with your foot. Your foot's hurting. Yeah. But it's actually a back problem. Yeah. Because everything's connected.

And everybody has been to the doctor where this has happened before. Yes. Where you go, it's your ACL. It's your Achilles. And they go, oh, no, it's actually your enzymes with the thing. And then it fixes it. Which is why we have now we have holistic doctors because it's a whole body. It's a whole organism.

It's a whole system. you can't just have an expert on one thing and expect to make sense of all these multiple things that are going on. And the same thing with our podcast. We have all these weird blurry creatures going on. And they're all connected in this weird way. And people have come on that you disagree with probably. Oh, yeah. And you go, no way.

It's just like, that's a bridge too far. But I mean, that's where Luke and I have to sort of curate this like. How does this end between you guys? You for sure hate each other at the end of this. Definitely. I think we just battle it out in the Thunderdome. I mean, this ends where you go, no, I've definitely. And you go, no.

It's like the good son. At the end, there's just someone's holding both of us on the edge of a cliff. And it's just one of them's got to go. One of us has to go. And were they, were they, were they, were they, were they, were they side up the whole time? Yeah. Were they part of the Illuminati? The whole time I knew it.

I knew it. Why do you think it is? Because in other, every time I've been to any other country. And I've been a lot of Middle Eastern countries, a lot of African countries, a lot of South American and Central American countries. And can't hide money, baby. And there, yeah, I got to let them know. first class oh there we go sometimes people see it's like this mind goes all the way well travel baby put me in a pot yeah i slept the whole time i bring out my passport what okay why over there

i feel like every supernatural story i have is yeah over there that's an interesting question over anywhere by the way we actually did this an episode with uh dr craig keener he's um he's studied miracles and so this is a question i had and he's it was like why do things the miraculous seem to happen not here, you know, in other places, other places in the world. And what he said is actually that isn't really true. Okay. He said that it happens here. It just isn't, um, isn't, maybe isn't advertised, advertised or covered as well that you still have it happen. They're, they're fringe people for it, right? What he said about miracles, I think is fascinating, right? So we talk about the miraculous, like you talk about, and these things get people uncomfortable as well, especially in the Western

church, like healings. Like people will tell you now that, um, anything supernatural, miraculous there are people that believe in the church and certain denominations that that ceased with the disciples and the apostles that after that there was none. I would say empirical data says that's actually false. It's not true. But what Craig said, and he's written like these massive books, right, Dr. Craig, these massive books about miracles in the Bible and then modern day. And he says that for whatever reason, there's not a, there's not a formula to it. God will do it, it intervenes when he, when he seems, feels fit. It's kind of random.

Right. But what he says is, you can bet on a couple things is that if God perform miracles on the cutting edge of evangelism. And what he's talking, what he means by that is that you go these places where, like I said before, they believe in the supernatural. That is a reality, a paradigm that exists for them on a day-to-day basis. And so when there's a miraculous healing, what inevitably ends up happening is the entire village converts.

They all accept Christ. And so God cares about bringing people to his kingdom and to his family. And so what Craig was saying is that he believes based upon the data, which he's collected, that God intervenes in times when it causes, it's on the cutting edge of the angel that causes a mass conversion, whether it be an African village or a place. And he tells us a really interesting story from Australia as well. Which I think is fascinating. That doesn't even happen here.

If somebody said my leg grew back, everybody would be like. No, it didn't. No, I didn't. No, but I mean, there's a guy we know, I know a church here in town who talked about praying for his, we talked about. Praying for his uncle. Remember the toes. Praying for his uncle and his uncle essentially like, growing a new, growing a new,

essentially regrowing things inside of his body, like regrowing parts of parts of an organ that shouldn't have happened and that happened. And then the doctors can't explain it, but it doesn't, I don't know that it causes a ton, you know, a whole village to convert. And so this is kind of where you have this, like, I don't know. And it's part of the mystery, right? So what things we talk about, we're never going to really know all the answers. Like, if you're a Christian, you believe we serve an infinite God.

And the Bible is very, very specifically, it says that we will, his ways are higher. We'll not know everything. Kayak gets my flight, hotel, and rental car right. So I can tune out travel advice that's just plain wrong. Bro, Skycoin, way better than points. Never fly during a Scorpio full moon. Just tell the manager you'll sue. Instant room upgrade.

Taking bad travel advice. Start comparing hundreds of sites with kayak and get your trip right. Kayak, got that right. And what we're trying to do is just find better answers for these questions. And weird stories. But here's one of the stories he tells too, I think it's fascinating in the healing realm is he talks about this Australian doctor who feels, he's a believer, feels like God tells him he's to pray for this guy that's been pronounced dead on operating table.

Been dead for like 20 minutes. So it knocked into the brain and he's like, this is wild. the guy's going to be a vegetable. He ends up saying, okay, let's go pray for him, praise for him, and then says, let's hit him one more time. Pray for it in the name of Jesus. Yes. Yeah, and says, let's hit him one more time with the paddles.

Guy comes back, no brain damage, comes back to life, gets saved. And they start speaking together. The same doctor. When was this? It's in his book. It's in the 2000s. I mean, it's recent. The same doctor's own son gets terminal leukemia.

Yeah. Pray for their son, pray for their son, pray for their son, pray for the son. Isn't healed. Right. Dies. And so then this guy has this this whole situation to sort of to digest where God intervened and saved a stranger using him to pray for him. God did not intervene for his own son. And he prayed for him.

And then you go, why does God do what he does? And I don't know that we'll ever know that except that. But the miracle did happen. Miracle happened. And now this guy that came back to life who accepted Christ and this doctor speak. Yeah. And people come to Christ. And I don't know that.

And I think, I mean, this is a long way of saying, I don't know. And that's a weird situation for a guy. If you're that guy, you go, why would you use me to help pray and save a stranger, but not my own son? That's everybody's question. Right. But I like the idea that these extraterrestrial or supernatural or supernatural or otherworldly, whatever. And a lot of that, you mentioned it earlier, is we talked to doctors, who doctors who are like,

and everybody, everybody has this story. It was like they had a one in a million chance or there was never. And then they looked at the cat scans. They looked at the x-ray and it was, and every doc, and the doctor goes, we don't know. Happened. Yeah. Yeah. But I mean, it happened.

That's not even a far. That's not even. But I think the stories are getting weird as that everyone has a paranormal story where it's beyond the miracles. It's everyone has a spiritual healing story or had a friend or a grandma or aunt. But then we hear all these stories of how someone saw this creature, someone saw this demon. and someone, I mean, we hear some wild stuff. These entities show up in people's bedrooms.

The Hatman, you know? Little gray aliens are abducting. Nah, we're talking. It's like we hear those stories and you go, and it's all the same people. Yeah, all right. Well, my, I was going to say the devil's advocate, but the devil, he doesn't need an advocate.

So if you see an angel, right? If somebody said, I saw an angel, I saw a demon, I saw Bigfoot like it's like the like the like the ghost hunter show on E is like there was like a they're like right you see is it is this like them like accidentally screwing up because like oh I accidentally got seen or oh I'm trying to be if they're trying to be hidden sometimes what did they did they did they mess up or why do why did you why did you kind of see them but not really see them was Bigfoot is he trying to be hidden yeah what's he doing I get I screwed up actually went the wrong way to the store,

he'd go to the store, but they might have seen me. Like he goes back to all the other Bigfoot and they're like, he was getting seen again. What are you doing? We're supposed to stay in this. Take this way. He was getting his feet. He was getting his feet bused by his wife and he was just taking a walk.

He's like, dude, cover the track. Like whenever I go in the bunker in the, in the, uh, on the golf course, I rake it. They were like, dude, Bigfoot, rake it. Well, all these things. Okay. So there are, there are legalities. It's a good person, John. You rake your bunkers.

Brack it. Bigfoot. Rake your footprints, dog. replace your divvets, Bigfoot. Come on, dude. Yeah, yeah. Look at you, bro. So what we've learned on our show is like these.

That's good and evil, by the way. The angels I saw, did they accidentally fly and then they accidentally brushed it? There are legalities, right? They all seem to have to follow these laws, these spiritual laws. And I think this is something that we read in, you know, the scriptures. There are laws that how these things sort of have to behave. And the kingdom of heaven is one of not disorder, but of order. and you hear there's job titles,

there's characters that have specific things they have to do. And I think some of these entities, especially when like possessions, you talk to any exorcists, they're going to say, there was some legality issue. You gave permission to this entity to come into you. And it's not as just, it's not whimsical like things just happen.

It's like they have to follow these laws. And so what a lot of people have hypothesized on our show was when the Holy Spirit spread, a lot of this stuff stopped, which is why the Old Testament feels kind of crazy because there's all this stuff going on, all these wild things happening. But when the Holy Spirit comes,

a lot of this stuff has to go underground and hide. It doesn't have the legal right to do what it does before. So that's why it feels like you're reading two different books. But in reality, it's just kind of, it goes to the dry places or it goes underground or it hides in the shadow. By nature of the Holy Spirit being present, it has to. Yeah.

So we know it operates that way too, right? Because, I mean, Joe, right, Satan presents himself or the accuser in the language and then has to have permission. And so we know there's permissions. And so I think the other thing too with this is that we are so we are body and spirit. We are we have a spirit, right? By definition. So, you know, I think that by God's grace there's a veil.

Like we don't see a lot of the things that go on. But I think that oftentimes there is this cross. There's this crossing over. And because we are spirit as well, there's an ability for sometimes for us to see things. I mean, the Bible says that Satan masquerades is an angel of light. So I think as Nate said, there's a, it's lesser, but there's a yes and where it's very much a reality. And I don't know that it happens by accident or, you know, these things feed on fear and want to show up or. And the Bigfoot thing does seem to happen sometimes by accident because it's weird.

They'll say they just saw them walking off, you know, or is the Patterson Gimwin film, a really famous one where they just, this Bigfoot just walking across the meadow. Just she, she's just going to see. Patty's going to see what's going on. Well, we haven't just talked to it, so let it choose its own gender. We haven't talked to you. How it identified that day. Yeah, you know, that's fair. She definitely, yeah.

I was getting. I was getting emotional just by hearing that story because, I mean, I've been. The Bigfoot story? Like, nah, well, about the supernatural. And because I, when I was in rehab, I'd say this. Talk about this before in here. I, the word I use, people make fun of me, I was like, I looked at the death. devil in the eye. When I was, I was in Wickenberg, Arizona, and I, like, it's interesting,

as a Christian or a believer or whatever he said, something was, was, I wouldn't even say, screaming at me to end my life. So, like, does that make sense? Yeah. And I was so, now you look back on it, you're like, gosh, I can't believe I. I thought, so we go, well, where, and that's everybody, by the way, is going to relate to that. Maybe not to that extent, but like, you should leave, you should leave this planet. And by the way, no one that was around me that knew me and loved me was said anything near, close to that. And what, and a lot of people that I know have listened to that and has ended their lives. Yeah. And so what, when I was out there, it was like a battle.

literally battling for my soul. I don't know how else to say that. I felt that so so palatable every day. And who was that? What a world of war. Who is that talking to me? Well, Paul talks about how our battles not against flesh and blood, right? But it's against principalities.

And I think, too, like, you know, my favorite verse in the Bible is, as you go back to atheists, high. But I went to Christian school. But my favorite verse is John 1010, or it talks about, for the thief comes to steal, kill, and destroy. And so I think ultimately, they may have life. We're a imago dea. We are image bears of the king of the most high.

And so we are very much in a world at war. There is a kingdom of darkness is warring against the kingdom of heaven. And this is very real. It's an ancient war that's been going on. And it will be ended if you believe your Bible. That is a biblical story. And I wore, I wore everybody here wars against that. Yes.

You're lying if you're saying you're not like. And there's nothing more of the darkness would prefer than those that bear the image as king. To end, to you to be a done. Right. Because God, I mean, God has callings on all of our lives. Right. And look at, I met you when you came right out of rehab, right out. Oh, yeah.

And so I know. And I know, I know, I know, you know, from that journey, like what you've been through. And it's amazing that we serve a God that's in the business of redemption. and he is. And I think the flip side of that is God is always redeeming and the kingdom of darkness is always looking to destroy. And because there are calling to honor by life, I don't care what you do or where you live,

God has a calling and he dreams, dreams for your life. And I think in our own free will, we choose to do what. But I think the idea that God is dreaming big things for our lives and has callings on us is something the enemy would love, more than the snuff out. Otherwise, why? Otherwise, why would he want to, if, why, why would he want to, I don't say, kill me, but why would the, if the devil has come to steal, kill, kill, and

destroy, right? If the, if his, there, I was like, I remember I go, I'm at rock bottom. Yeah. And the therapist is like, no, you're not. There's so many more bottoms. I still have my family and money as unnecessary. That was necessary. I was not.

I well traveled. No, I still like, I rake my blunker. No, I still like I could still, I mean, I can still go play golf. I guess it's like, we, this is, you chose this to be the bottom. There's so much, so many more worse. But so if the enemy, let's, you, you have to believe that there's good and evil. And you wake up and you want to do evil, right? Yeah.

And there's this, there's, why would the enemy want to destroy you if you, weren't there wasn't a plan for good for you. Yeah. By default, you have to agree that if you overcome this and don't kill yourself, it is for a good, for good. And you are, yeah, I mean, technically, like Luke was saying earlier, we're all, you know, God has wants a family. That's what we are.

We are. That's the gospel story. We're back in the family. We were estranged. We were the prodigal son. We wandered away. We spoiled our inheritance. Now we're back in the family.

So Satan technically and his, you know, hordes of, you know, creatures that he has commanded in his legions want to kill and destroy God's children because they hate them. They hate us. They don't like the fact that we were made in God's image. They don't, you know, so we are a unique creation. We are one of the many creatures in God's creation. And I think that what we do and with our podcast is give people permission to believe the weird stuff. that's happened to them and believe the weird stories in the Bible and the stuff that's coming like we said um we have basically our government saying we have Edward Snowdens of the UFO community coming out and saying not only have I seen these things where there's entities and this craft these the technology that they possess is otherworldly yeah it is it is it is beyond what we what we understand and so there's going to be a lot of things coming in the next couple years And because the church has sort of pigeonholed itself and won't talk about the weird stuff. They're not going to know.

Like your pastor ceased to be irrelevant the moment aliens come down. That's all right. This dude. We're leaving the church too. I'm leaving that church for sure. Because he didn't prepare you for what's coming. And we know like, well, how can you tell what's coming? Well, these themes repeat themselves, right?

Yeah. We see themes in the Bible repeat themselves. We see this like tampering with creation. That's something that's that's happened since the beginning. Yeah. And they've always sort of tried to screw with humanity and knowledge, but there's other beings involved. So I think that what we try to, because we're a podcast, because it's just two guys, because

you can't really shut down. Just in black. Let's say, it's like being a comedian. You just, you tell the truth, right? That's your job. And the more you tell the truth, the funnier you are. Yeah. And I think if Luke and I don't try to tell the truth to people, they won't listen.

And I think sometimes in the church, it's the opposite. where if you do tell the church people are tell the church the truth people kind of get offended and get up and leave that leave yeah like you just told me the truth bro you're not supposed to do that I'm here for what what do you isn't that weird though it's like the medium that you that the truth is yeah we're here for but you don't like I want to you want to hear truth but if it's too true yeah yeah that's great about comedy right is you can you can wrap it in in humor but the reality is and we talked about this yesterday, is that the only one that can speak truth to the king is the court jester, right? Oh, yeah.

Because anybody else is kind of off with her head. And sad reality is that's a little bit, a lot of bit like our society now. And so luckily for us, like when we're talking about podcasts, we're not, you know, it's something that's regulated or can be shut down. We're in a really good medium where we can ask the hard questions. Look, pursue the truth. You kind of have to, to cut through the fluff. Well, what, in the search of truth, what conspiracy theory is the closest one to be, to being accepted? What conspiracy theory used to be a theory that it's closest to being like, well, known?

It has to be a UFO thing. I think it has to be. Yeah. I mean, that was always just like, I mean, ops to basically make you feel crazy. and stupid and then like roswell yeah happened the UFO crashes happened you know guys like bob lazar were telling the truth that he worked in area 51 on these alien tech yeah and now you have all these like there's a whole system in place for people to come out say yeah Bob lazar was just one of many dudes contracted by the government to work on this stuff yeah i think that is that is the

most like on the surface yeah because it Hollywood sort of i think Hollywood tried to to like brainwash us to think this is all just make believe stuff like will smith independence day yeah kick the tires and light the fires big daddy gosh well yeah all right I like you know because you think of like an alien you think I think that's where my brain went independent state when the thing and he pulled it out of there and punched it or whatever yeah yeah all right so welcome to earth welcome to earth gosh he's a great movie man and then uh oh man he slapped chris rickrard randy quade dude cousin eddie's flying the she was the biplane And okay, so, but like, somebody explained this to me the other day, like, in the book of Revelation, they're like, it looked like four horses that had flames in its eyes that had like wings.

You're like, all right, if you saw a drone or a helicopter in the Bible times, you don't have the vocabulary to, you're like, it looked like fire in its, yeah, headluck. Or like, yeah, wings, yeah. Like if you go, if they saw a vision, right, I saw this vision of the future or this how the world's going to end or whatever. And they were trying to describe it. They don't have, it looked like a car flying. They don't have, they didn't never seen that. I don't know what the internet was.

Yeah, they didn't, they don't have. So what, what if you had, if you tried to describe a car. Right. Chariot. You would be like, it looks like an elephant that, right? You don't have the, you don't have the, so that's what, like, the UFO, like, I'm trying to put it in terms of, like, Independence Day. Because that's what I know of, or like Jurassic Park. Yeah.

But you're like, that's what you know of it because that's what you've seen in movies. But if you never had seen the thing before, what. Yeah. There's a whole bunch of people that described to that and say, like, John's trying to describe things you can't describe, right? Yeah, he doesn't have the words. You never seen it before. That's one. That's one.

And you're saying there's another one. And you're saying there's another one. There's a lot of them. I mean, there's people that believe that that is all about the fall of Rome and that that all is done. Okay. Because, because Rome fell and then there's people that say, oh, he's trying to describe things he can't see. And then you go, there's prophetic iconography. And what is he really saying here?

People will say maybe he's trying to describe things in the heavenlies that are in four dimensions. And you're looking at things like, I don't know how to make this. Makes sense. Four figures on the throne and heads. But regardless, like, we know that it's going to like these things repeat. These themes repeat. So Revelation will be. I was just talking about that yesterday, dude.

I feel like not the Holy Spirit, but somebody is like, it was a message for me. He's a message. The history repeats itself. Yeah, it's going to repeat. I was talking about that yesterday. So Revelation is always true in a sense.

Like it was true then. Maybe it was true for the fall of Rome, but it's also true for the for the transhumanism paradigm that's coming because we're going to all be tempted to upgrade to be non-humans in our lifetime. It's coming. And you once, and the real question is, When you're no longer human, are you protected?

What do you mean non-human? Like, you are no longer in the image of God. You have taken some sort of genetic mark, perhaps, and you were no longer... Or neuralink. You were no longer a child of... That's a thing where you could swipe your hand at Whole Foods. That's the beginning of, like, technology. I'm talking about, like...

Oh, you're like, you can have Google brain. You're like, no, do that. No, definitely do that. That's just high-tech palm way, bro. I was like, dude, I went to this thing at the airport where I swiped my credit card, And then I left with a bag of Cheetos and they didn't pay for it. Like, yeah, that's a, they just, you're still human. They have a barker.

They're like, dude, if I sold myself, they're like, no, dude. You're trying to get on the flight. This is a whole other life. But I'm just saying like, get on the flight. A lot of people, they re-revelation with this idea of what's going to come in the future. We don't know exactly, but we do know that there are verses to say things like they're going to beg for death and they won't be able to find it. That sounds like immortality. That sounds like you've left, you know, we all die and we can all kill ourselves still.

But what if you upgrade into something that's more like, you know, an angelic kind of being where you can't die? So some of those verses make more sense. Because they wouldn't make sense to ancients. How can you not leave this realm? How can you not end it all? It doesn't make sense. So I think regardless of how you believe Revelation, you got to understand that like it's

going to repeat. And there is, there is truth you can take from this, all these books of the Bible. I think the beginning of the end, like every film is the most important part. Yeah. So Genesis, there's so much hidden in there that we don't understand. The beginning, yeah. And that's like the moment, you know, you watch any great film like, um. And this might be want to read a Bible. And then the end, right? So the beginning is the end. The end is the beginning. Right. Yeah. Like the opening scene is so many movies is how the movie ends. And then you go, oh, dang. Oh.

That's the moment. Usual suspects. Exactly. Six cents. I don't want to ruin it for you after 25 years. But Bruce Wilson is dead. But the light bulb turns on. You've seen him die in the beginning.

But the light bulb turns on slowly. So you slowly realize you were dead the whole time. It's like, oh, you know. And well, that's the whole, that's your whole, that's the whole thing. Is it? Is it? Is, does it? Is, is if you.

you're walking down the street and 20 bucks falls out of the pocket of the person in front of you should i right you have all these like is there you're saying there's we've talked about this before they're good and evil are if not trying to influence you do exist to influence you to influence you yeah so you if you believe in the bible if you are a believer you have to believe in in in you can't be zero on this spectrum we're talking about. Right. You have to be somewhere on it. Yeah.

And you have to be probably, if you believe in the Bible, you have to be pretty far down on the, not the conspiracy theory, but the otherworldly. Supernatural. You can't be like culturally Christian. You can't be a Christian. It'd be like that doesn't exist. Well, there's a cultural Christian.

Like be a good person, go to church, do the thing. Don't lie. Don't steal. Yeah, yeah. There are benefits to that. I think a lot of. Jordan Peterson. that's a lot of his thing.

It's like, I'm not a Christian, but following the man of Jesus. This is the best way to live. I just follow these rules. I'm trying to be a good person. These are the precepts. And like, this will make my life. Don't lie, don't cheat. But knowing, like knowing, there's a big difference between knowing God,

having a relationship with God, him communicating with you and helping you and then knowing about God. And I think we have a lot of people who know about this subject. Yeah. And I think that was one of maybe Jesus's main qualms with humans at the time. Yeah. You guys don't know. me. You don't know me. I'm here in your midst. You know all about the book. In fact, you've, you've been taking classes on this your whole life, but I'm right here. Somebody told me that about

like Michael Jordan. I could tell you a lot about him. Yeah. I don't know him. Right. I can't, I don't know. I got a duty one six championships. Uh, he played for the Bulls. He'd love to play baseball. I could tell you all things, but I don't. Grace of all time. Never met him. Never met him. Yeah. I don't to be obviously that's not up for debate yeah but somebody somebody told me i want to say high school and i probably when i've been at my let's say darkest or most fearful or like you guys tell me if this is biblically accurate that i don't know we the arbiterers a bit well we don't know i feel like what you guys need to do is start wearing suits trim these beards up get some haircuts we'll just take the mustache off we can we can yeah then they were like go hang out with your family these guys i trust yeah yeah yeah

Yeah. Hey, bring that bullcat back. Well, I'll do it. I'll do it. It's getting there. I can't wait. That was the sidebar. That was the greatest.

That was the greatest. Great. Because you just show up and you act like, what? This is how I do my hair. What's wrong with my facial hair? Somebody told me that you, I want to say, is in high school. And I grew up in a very, there was a lot of speaking in tongues, praying for Pentecostal falling over, people being slain in spirit, being arrested by the Holy Spirit,

whether that was laughing, screaming. I remember this is like late 90s. Oh, yeah. Mid-90s, late 90s, yeah. The Holy Spirit was working overtime back then. Heck yeah. But someone, I was either fearful or, this is not even as a kid. I would say as adult that you, if, quote, demons or the enemy or whatever is, is,

near you or in your room or however you feel fearful or scared or panicked or whatever that you say have you ever heard this you say the name of Jesus out loud and command them verbally to you must in the name of Jesus you must leave and that and they have to by the by the realm or what do you say that there's like other the laws and the laws of they have to yeah yes somebody told me that And I have practiced that. No, but that's like, honestly, what's funny about that is that, like, these, you can talk about ghost hunting shows. One of the things are real, people that actually professionally ghost hunt that aren't

believers, you know this is like a get out of jail free. Like if something starts getting too crazy and they can do that. And these people don't, not believe it. It's fascinating because like the kryptonite for the air. They don't, like, they don't claim the name of like Buddha or Allah. It's the name of Jesus is what, it's like this little magic trick. Like if you need this thing to stop, this experience to stop because it's too much. Yeah.

Which is fascinating, right? Because... But these people are not... They have no reason to... Yeah. Yeah. Actually might hurt them to admit that. Right.

Yeah. And I think that, you know, we get a lot of emails from people who say, like, I'm not religious and I'm not a Christian, but I really like your show. Yeah. And I always think that's interesting to me because it's like, dude, we drop the gospel and it's crazy. But I think the thing that we do that I think the church should do more of is we don't... We don't treat people like their kids. And we don't give them a people.

PG version of anything. We give you the rated R version of everything. Like, we treat people like adults, like you can handle it. And I think the Bible does the same thing, by the way. It leaves everything in there. It does not.

Solomon, baby. Oh, yeah. And it's because you need the whole story. Yeah. And I think so what we have is like, we kind of have these snippets. And we're like, well, we don't want to talk about that. So people leave their faith.

Yeah. Because they go, why would God flood the world. Why would he do that? And then we don't want to speak about it or say, is it a allegory or is it real? We say things like that. Yeah. And then we just kind of move on from it. And then you're like, wait, wait, what happened there? Yeah. I don't think I've ever heard a Joel Osteen sermon on that. No, you won't. You won't. You won't. And I don't think he's covered it. No, he's coming on the show. It's on TV. I think it's also important, like, if we're treating people like adults is to allow them to be presented with the information and then make up your

own mind. It's literally like free speech at its finest is like taking these ideas and these thesis of people that have studied and spent written books on this stuff that really doesn't have answerable. We don't have actionable answers, if you will. But then you're grown up enough that you should make up your own mind about it. So like I said, chew the meat, spit out the bones. We do the same thing as we do the interviews is like, well, this is a little wacky out there.

We have folks on and talked about every, every... It's on the Patreon after we're like, dude, this guy's not. Yeah, well, I mean, it's like, you name, we've heard it. Like, every observatory on the planet's a Stargate and things like that. And you're like, I don't know, man. Like, the Hawaiians were in the Lost Tribe of Israel. We've heard, you know, things that you're like, well, okay. I mean...

Your boyfriend shapeshifted into like a Hulk creature. Like, we've heard that we've heard... Just about everything. But I had an idea, though. We should pick it in front of Joel Osteen's church with signs to say, talk about the Nephilim. Like that's the next video. He's like, what? What?

He's like, what is that? We should just do like a little video with that. We'll be there. Well, is the, so the idea, has there ever been in human history prior, this might be an ignorant question, prior to United States of America where you were allowed to speak freely? I mean, that's a good question. I think. So, I don't think, I don't think information was. I don't think information was offensive to people.

Well, the only reason I say that is because when something by nature, and it's 2020 and 2021, we're like heavy with us and very less now, by nature, when something is removed from the internet, especially with socials, when they remove something, I go, we need to listen to that. Yes. Every time. Why? Okay.

Because that's Biden. That's the definition of. truth is if you like if so i say this i've said this a bunch people say i'm gay on the internet all the time i don't i don't i don't i got i really i really come was over the room dude i met yeah i really i met your girlfriend i yeah yeah yeah i really don't have much of a issue with that like people say it's there's no i go yeah i don't i don't there's no truth to that so I don't, it doesn't resonate as offensive to me. It doesn't, it's just like a silly thing.

I don't want to suppress it. I just go, I don't, no problem with that. I don't say, hey, take that down. When somebody says, like the only thing it's ever been offensive or scary is truth. Yes. All the time. Otherwise, you would have no reason to take it down. And so when you go, hey, remove.

Now, I'm not talking about hate speech or someone. want to kill somebody. That's that that's where you was somebody's just speaking ideas. Right. And somebody goes, remove this. Or or if you even if not removed the idea of UFOs or extraterrestrial things or other things that have come in the news that come and go. And they go, why, why didn't this catch or like the not a conspiracy or whatever you call it? Like Jeffrey Epstein. People go, right. What is going on? And then you, you, I feel like I, I feel like, I, you, I feel like, I, you. go hold on what and then I I I scratch the surface a little bit and then I get scared yeah and I go or you see a 90 minute documentary and then you go I don't want to go into this any further because if I

open this door which it sounds like y'all have and prior to 2020 you were kind of scratching the surface of this and now you get into it and you're like there's so much going on here this has happened with giant stuff recently on TikTok. Have you guys seen all that? There's a bunch of giant videos that have come out. And the people disappear allegedly where the content gets pulled down. What are your thoughts on all that type of stuff?

Yeah, I mean. So, I mean, when it comes to giants, we talk a lot about how they were, there's all this archaeological evidence. They were pushed to remote parts of the world. Which is somebody that, what, is taller in eight feet or what? It's a giant. It could be eight feet.

Sometimes they found skeletons up to 18 feet, 19 feet. I mean They're human skeletons But they have these giant skulls And they So you can go Anyone right now can go to

Archives Newspaper archives Type in my website $30 a month Subscribe Exactly Go to wordicreachers.com Put in 50 bucks

And then you'll get access But you can go to Like these newspaper archives And you can type And they're still available Type in giant skeletons found

You will find thousands and thousands of news articles where farmers dig up these things. And you got to think to yourself, okay, you know, there was, you know, what yellow history or whatever they call it? Like yellow journalism. Jilly yellow journalism. And it's like, okay, there was some spoof stuff. But after a while, you got to go, okay, this has been from 1850 till like 1920, you had 70 years of people finding these giant skeletons. Because that's when farmers started going and they're, and every time, Smithsonian shows up and takes these things. So they're not. they were here. They were here in America. And then you have these stories of Lovelock Cave in

Nevada where the Indians fought them and trapped them in there and smoked them out. You could see these skeletons on display in a museum there until like 10 years ago and then they took them. I don't like that. I don't like that. There was a giant museum in Catalina Island. A guy was digging him up on Catalina Island and he had them in this warehouse. And we had listeners email us. My grandma went to that museum. I wish she was still alive. She would come on her show and tell you going to that museum. Huge skeletons, seven, eight foot or nine foot or ten footers. And I think, and we think, those are some of the last ones, the ending ones. And then you can go to Peru and you can see the elongated skulls, which are genetic anomalies. They're not human skulls. That's how my cousin

was born. Oh, with a big head. No, he just had a, it settled. It just, it was a kind of a, like, Peyton Manning. It had a five head. Luke's dad. We wonder about Luke's dad. Oh, yeah. We actually wonder. But like, yeah. So, and then, so these are just that these are the historical accounts. Then you have people who brought in the sky, Dark Waters, who got a YouTube channel who these fishermen tell a story of seeing one remote in Louisiana. We're fishing and they're going through.

They're miles in. They're camping one night. Start a fire and they see these giant heads look through the bushes at them. And you got to go, okay. And then Solomon Islands, you know, there are stories of giants still living in the mountains of the Solomon Islands. Afghanistan, same thing. So they're still around. And then there was that one in Portland

where the guy said that this giant opened a rock door and looked out and then there are all these TikTok type of truthers going there and see, did this thing actually open up? But I mean, we hear those stories all the time. And one of the things that we talk about on our show is that Dr. Michael Heiser famously said on our show that like,

if all these things, right, thousands of articles and all these experiences, if just one is true. You throw out all the others from say they're not. One is true. It causes you adjust your paradigm. You have to make space for it. And it can't, it's not 100% everyone's lying in all these articles.

Can't be. From the 19th, 19th, 20th century, they're not all lying. So what do you do with that? Maybe no more giant articles. We got it. Or like everybody's getting, yeah. What do you do with that? I don't think they're believing those anymore.

And so the thing is interesting too is it like you look at the conquest of Joshua, right? Where they're, biblically, they're meant to clear the Holy Land. of these tribes. And so there's a lot of thought process that because the spies came back because there were giants in the land that they were, and this is part of a lot of Christians have a problem with this, is that God sanctioning what they call genocide upon these tribes in the holy land. And I think you can go both ways.

You can say, you know, at this point we're pre-Jesus. So God is using Israel's instrument of judgment. These people were worshiping false gods. And then they deserve judgment. They don't have the grace of the grace and sacrifice of Christ. But also because we know there's giants, you have these beings that are, an abomination to God there, these mixing of races, of angelic and human race.

They're not human. Oh, humans don't grow that tall. So that would be, you know, they have all sorts of, manu bowl got pretty tall. Yeah. They have genetic, genetic disorders. George Miroson. So they often have six fingers, six toes, huge heads, and blood disorders. There's all this, people come on and say that they had all these problems, you know,

reproduction problems. Allegedly. I mean, I don't know how they were. Yeah. You know what I mean? But I mean, some of these things got massive. I mean, it says in numbers that they were as big as cedar trees. And that's what terrified them from going into the promise land.

So you hear about this. Oh, we don't want to go into the promise. Yeah, they were like. Yeah. Not like. They were like, my high school. These are like a small light guys. We played Beaufort High School.

These are an uncomfortable truth, though, right? So then the modern answer is like, oh, well, they were just, these spies were exaggerating, you know, because they were scared to go into these armadies. Or they were like, they always used that. Yeah. As like a... An underdog. We were an underdog. And like there's giants in your life.

Yeah. It's always that. Tell your boss that you need a rain in your life, John. This is like, I'm scared. So that's the giant. You have to slay John. Dude, I was in that story. Yeah.

And I and that story was verbally passed down over generations. And then a church in 2023 was like, what's your giant? You should put on, you should turn off your TikTok and focus on your family. I'd be pissed. I'll be like, dude, I risked it all. And now this is how they're using my story. Grandpa was killing giants and now you're turning your TikTok. Well, you need to put only 20 minutes a day on your Instagram and you're like,

dude, this is not what I had about. I would say this, John, people don't want to throw that out. It's like, listen, the Bible's either 100% true or it's not or not at all. This is zero-sum game. So it's tough to say that you can, oh, I'm just going to believe this, but not, I'm throwing this out. And you go, oh, man, that's tough. Or it's like Peterson is a deeper side.

deeper form of truth. It is what we base everything and that and that you can if you say there's there's things in this book that are otherworldly or other I don't have the context that that that that in itself is a belief. There are like I don't totally understand this. I do believe the book to be what it says it is and I'm going to learn all this in the afterlife or after death. I think I think of the things we do is we work backwards. And I think a lot of times the church works the opposite way. Like we start with like modern day weird stuff that's happening now. Where does this come from? How is it possible this creature exists today? Where is this technology that these, you know, fallen angels, you have, you know, aliens, whatever you want to call them, where does it come from?

So we work backwards. And then when you work backwards, you start to go, oh, dude, the giants were being they were around in the 1850s getting dug up oh they were around in this same oh they're a part of every culture's history yeah people were fighting giants i mean giants were supposedly put stonehenge together oh there were giants in this country and this oh you see and you go back evidence of it you've been to peru and we were there i'm going to tell you a miracle that i saw in peru i love this go ahead but where the incas began they say that they found this place it was the abode of the gods and the mythos is the giants built this is the place where the ink civilization began.

Okay. And the Inks will tell you in the same way that the Native American tribes that exist in the mountains in the United States will tell you that regardless of what what the narrative, modern narrative is now that they didn't build these. Yeah. And they all say that was built by giants. This is what the Incas say. This is where they began, the Inks began.

That's the mythos. And this is- Yeah, there's like the, there's like the core people who know their history and then there's like the accepted countries broad history. Right, right. So there's like the purists who say, the, the, the purists who say, the, the, the will tell you, nah, we didn't build this. But this, you know.

Like in the school, the books they learn in school. Well, it's because it's a huge part of there. That's how the, that's how the- There's no atheist high school in Peru, I'll tell you that. No, there's not. I mean, it's like there's not one in sub-Saharan Africa. Like, you believe, you believe this or this? You believe in nothing.

You being crazy. There are no big Lebowski nihilists running around in all black. But there's groups within groups, and I think, you know, the core people will say, they're like, yeah, they don't have any problems saying, telling you the truth. Yeah, we didn't build this stuff. We didn't build this stuff. We don't know who did. But that's not good for, you know, tourism.

What does the Egyptians say about the pyramids? Well, it depends who you talk to. Modern Egyptologists have the narrative. But you talk to kind of like alternate historians. They get labeled alternate. And then they get shuffled to ancient aliens and stuff like that. So they don't get accepted by the... Oh, you all are in that group.

We are. So you're in the alternate group. Allegedly. Yeah. But we spice it up, though. Well, let me tell you what happened to me in Peru. Let's do it. I saw this with my own eyes.

We were in, we were in, we were doing these like street, like it's these street like ministry or whatever. Street evangelism. Yeah, which is. We guys are, we going to play. Are you street dancing? No, I was, yeah, we were the, it was like a toy maker. And I was like, all the toys are broken and I was God. And I'd come back and like fix all the toys.

And it was like, of course you put yourself at the epicenter. No, dude, I didn't choose it, bro. They chose me. I'm playing God. Listen, I'm God. It's like Philip Seymour Hoffman in Long Came Polly. I'm playing all the parts. It's that Dave Chappelle bit.

It was like, the true story of Antoine Fisher, written by Antoine Fisher. Okay. I forgot this girl's name, but I think her last name was Schneider. I think I've, I'm friends with this girl. Yeah. But it is, it's, all right. So we were, we did this whole play. And no one spoke English down there, by the way.

And it was, it was translated. It was in, we've doing it. So we were just banking on the Holy Spirit doing the translation. We had an audio. It was in Spanish. The audio of the play, we acted out to play with a video. I mean, I don't agree with this form of evangelism now. Yeah, it's a whole different story.

Obviously, it worked, though. I don't know why I wouldn't believe it. So this girl was, she was the devil. So she had like a black eye shadow and she would, you know, go around. Typical woman hater. Yeah, yeah. I don't want to do that I still believe in that's stupid

okay so she was like we I would go and like talk to everyone's like the friendly character right now talk to everybody after then all the kids there was translators and this girl it was on a basketball court I remember this in a village that was like a concrete slab I guess in the middle and then so we did the play after words, I saw that girl sitting on a bench talking to a woman, conversing with a woman for probably,

we were playing with the kids, you know, playing soccer or whatever, talking with that woman for 30 minutes. And then we got on the bus and I was like, I go, that's, somebody goes, that's crazy, dude. Did she speak English? And she goes, no. I go, well, did you speak Spanish? And she goes, no. And I saw them, they were like. Speaking of children. Yes, I saw it with my own eyes, dude.

And I, like, some of the other stuff, like, it was a little, like, so if I, but I kind of, like, as the, that has gone on, I, I remember it as clear as day at the time. And as that's gone on, that's probably 15 years ago now. And that's similar to most people's stories. You go, and then a week goes on. And then you go, and there's a lot of stories like that where we had this extra, like, there were like, everybody had these peanut butter jelly sandwiches. And we're all in this bus on the way home. And there's all these people outside.

We're like, we'll just go out. The peanut butter and jelly sandwiches were for us, for the group of our missionaries or whatever. Yeah. And somebody goes, we're going back to the, you know, Ritz Carl, or wherever we're staying in, obviously. But now, just kidding. We're going back to wherever we're going. And somebody goes, we'll just go pass out.

Four seasons. Yeah. So, I mean, obviously I had points, but I just kidding. Somebody goes, we'll just go pass out the sandwiches. And so they were like, well, they put them like under their like shirt to like go out and like pass them out. And they just, they had like, everybody had like four or five. And they just kept like. Dude, so move over loaves and fishes.

We're multiplying PBJ. They just kept passing them out and kept passing them out. and kept passing them out. And then that, and then until everybody like, and I was like, that was the bus that I was on. Yeah. And I was like, and everybody just sat there like, and now I look back on it's 15 years ago,

but a lot of stuff like that was happening. And you're like, all right. It's so you go to camps, right, throw that out. Right. You didn't see that. And everybody goes, I need to see proof. I need to talk to everybody. Let's go back to that village.

Did you have a sandwich? Did you have a sandwich? Did you, what were you speaking about? I saw them. You look spiritual Oprah. Like you get a PBJ. Yeah, but everybody. You get a PBJ and you get a PBJ.

And I was in and out. Everybody goes, man, if I would have seen, if I would have seen the Red Sea part and I walked across it, I would be the biggest Christian of all. But they weren't. They got over there and immediately started. be like, I don't believe it. Well, that is, that is really, you bring up a really good point. Like we've talked to, I think Heiser talked about this on the show.

He said most of the time Moses was really bored. Okay. He was wandering around. He had a bunch of angry, grumpy people who had eaten anything different. 40 years in the desert. And the Bible doesn't give you all of that. So when we read the Bible, we read the highlight reel. And then we go, this didn't happen because my life is mostly boring.

Yeah. These are crazy stories. Yeah. But it's like, well, it's just giving you the highlights of how we got here and how they got there and how this whole story gets reclaimed and redeemed. Yeah. It just gives you the highlights. And so if you actually had all the volumes of the boring stuff, you wouldn't, you wouldn't be able to read it for one. Water and fed my camel. Just like the miracle story he was telling earlier. Like, sometimes.

Let's skip this part. There's 15 years in here. We got nothing. Nothing really happens. He said the highlight of John's life. He was born in Georgia. He started being a comedian. He goes to Florida on a bus.

Yeah. Because people can't take horse and dog. Ten years of girls not talking to him. Yeah, that'd be great. And then, yeah, they got canceled. And now here he is. Yeah. He's out of the bushes.

I'm going to take up baptism. Yeah. So I think that's a good job. He goes, he has this on the mountaintop experience. They go, well, let's put that one in the book. Yeah. Yeah. Obviously.

I think it's a lot of, yeah. I think so I think it's fascinating too is like that's, I have that same sort of situation. I was a wild whammer after college. So I was in Southeast Asia and I saw miraculous healings. I saw them. And the thing about that is we went to another country in the name of Christ. Yeah. Agree or disagree with Christians and going to other countries and converting people.

We all proclaimed out loud that we are going to this place that is ruled or governed by darkness. and we said we are going in the name of Christ there. And that's, do I tell us. I was saying, but I saw miraculous healings. I saw things that don't make sense. And what happens inevitably, I think it's fascinating because you're the same thing as you go, even when you've witnessed these things.

As time arose it, you started being, you try to rationalize, did I really see what I saw? Did that really happen that way? Yeah. And that's kind of how it's similar with it. Well, like a hunter will be out for 40 years hunting. Yeah.

And you'll have one weird story. Yeah. It doesn't, it's not like everyone out there's having this, just crazy stuff happens. Sometimes people will have multiple encounters and you're just like, man, you got like, but this doesn't line up with the rest of the stuff. Right. Yeah. But the rest of, so either maybe I was asleep, I had a vision.

Yeah. I was hallucinating. Maybe the doctor would be like, maybe you were tired. You didn't have enough electrolytes or some kind of physical rationale of why you didn't, why that thing didn't happen. But then there are stories outside of all of that. There is no explanation. Right. There is no Oxum Razor thing to say, oh, this is exactly what happened.

This is the easiest answer. So it has to be that. It doesn't fit. And you'll have these guys come on. Like, look, I'm just a park ranger, you know. I got no skin in this game. Yeah. Yeah.

Or this is more detrimental to me, to my career to actually come on and say this. So I'm like kind of taking a wrist. I do have skin in the game. I can get in trouble for this. We've had to like change people's voices on the show. They don't want to know their names. They've said, look. I was a part of this abduction program.

I was a part of this ritual. And we have people come on and say, like, they're doctors. They're in their 50s. They're women. And they don't want any credibility. They don't have social media or nothing. They're like, I was abducted as a kid and taken to the woods part of these satanic rituals. And all these people would show up.

And not only people, but entities would show up. And you're like, Luke and I look at each other like, what do we do with this? What do we do with this? And then. Like, I got a carpool line. I got to get in one moment. You're like at Walmart reading the, and then you read the comments. I got to get a burrito.

These guys are insane. And I think we just feel like, I think we had an idea of what we wanted this show to be. Like we won't talk about Bigfoot stories. We want to be kind of, we still want to be respected. Yeah. And then there's like God's like, I feel like had a different vision for what we wanted to do. Because I remember there was a couple episodes. I'm like, man, if I hit, if I push published on this one.

Oh, yeah. Because I've been doing all. I'm like, Luke, are we putting this out? He's like, put it out. I'm like, I don't know. You put out everything. But. You want to put out everything?

We know, we don't. We don't put out everything. No, I'm the other way. No, you do? I got a family, dude. Oh, yeah. I've heard you guys talk, can I jump in? I heard them talk about like Bigfoot's the gateway drug to all conspiracies and everything.

Yeah. If that's the gateway, what is heroin? Like, what's as far on the other side as far as you guys would go? Yeah, like satanic ritual abuse, for sure. The fact that these people know. Like you think about how much knowledge it takes to make certain drugs. You have to take it. You have to do this.

You have to put it in a batch, boil it, reheat it and all. I mean, vaccine? What? I'm just, sorry. Sorry. You set that up. That was right there, dude. Tell me about the dark and everything on earth and you're like, vaccine joke?

I'm using your heroin, you know, question. It's actually what we's talking about. Like, it takes, you know, just to make cocaine, right? Like, we're in Peru. They give you the, they give you the cocoa leaves. You could chew on them. And then you're like, everyone's like freaking out. Like, I just.

shoot on some coke leaves like no dude you have to do this crazy thing to actually get cocaine from these leaves yeah don't worry about it but but i think the same thing is the supernatural the dark entities know like all the spiritual laws of a human being and what they can do with a human being like we know human trafficking exists and it's like conspiracy theory but more more people are blowing that no no they take kids they farm them they use them all up every way they can use a kid they use them it's happening we got movies coming out now and saying it's happening We've got people blown the whistle everywhere. Now think they're fourth dimensional beings human trafficking.

We brought on David Politis, who has a huge channel called Missing 401, and he talks about people just vanishing. No animal, no bear, no bigfoot even. A sign of a struggle. It just vanished. And then their clothes appear magically miles away folded. We're talking kids, women, people who can't go up a mountain, you know, three miles up a mountain on, like, with no trails, they'll find their clothes like folded. So we bring on those guys that have done the forensic science to say, look, something is trafficking

humans and it's not other humans or animals. Interdimensionally. That is the heroine of our shows. For the sake of evil. Who knows? Yeah. Genetic programs, like hybrids, whatever they're doing. And the evidence is there that they're not, they're leaving our realm.

They're going somewhere else. They're taken in some kind of craft or they're going through some kind of portal. And that's the other. That's the other side. And I forever, I heard these stories. I thought it was just Bigfoot. Oh, Bigfoot's taking people. And these guys are like, no, no, no.

There's like no evidence that anything's taking them that's walking around. Yeah. And just the national park stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But Bigfoot is the gateway, right? Because, like, I mean, like the footprints.

So there's Dr. Jeffrey Meldrum, who's like the leading. You had him on the show. We had him a show, but he's like the leading expert, right? He has something like 10,000 casts of different footprints in his office. And he has a big foot butt print. We made some jokes about that. But so the thing's leaving evidence. This isn't, this isn't, these aren't all hoaxes.

These are leaving evidence that there's something going on. So you have this, okay, if I can comfortably start to consider this being a reality, then you go, what else is happening that? And that's just one because it's a cultural phenomenon, because so many people see it because they're recorded. That's more believable even. So that's more like... It's palatable.

That's the gateway drug. There's a thing. Yeah. But then you go through the harder, harder the drugs, the harder and harder the stories and the complexity of the stories. How can they split a soul? They do it through trauma. How does that work?

What is a human soul? And then people just, they blow their fuse on us because they're like, that's not in the Bible. And I'm like, neither is photosynthesis. But I have a good idea that it's happening. Mitochondri is a power. Yeah. And who knows, I mean, and who knows of that? Yeah. It's powerhouse the cell. I knew that. Yeah. I knew that. That's well done. Some people say, some people say like,

they go back and forth on dinosaurs. Oh, yeah. Let's go. No, we don't have to go. But like, but that, like, you go, well, these. No, we're going. We have these skeletons, but they are, I like somebody, you see something wild and you call the Smithsonian. Do not call that. They'll hide it. That's a viral video. So you see this like a T-Rex. You see it in the museum. No one has any evidence. But you have like this much of a bone.

You're like this was the rib cage and they build the whole thing. You're like, that probably didn't exist. But they have... T-Rex probably did. No, okay. So we did this episode on human in Texas. You can go right now. You can still go.

There's like dinosaur state park in Texas. There's this old river. Yeah, run by Joe Exotic. We have tickets available on our website. Carol Vasquez is not there. But you can see human and dinosaur footprints walking together and not small human footprints. Massive giant tracks. They were there until the 80s.

We actually secured a book and we did a whole episode on it that we showed the pictures. This guy did a whole thing. There's dozens and dozens of tracks and dinosaur tracks all together at the same time. So A, you had giants and. dinosaurs walking in this riverbed and it's clear as day. You can go listen to that episode if you want to like have more evidence about that. But then the guy was saying that in the 80s, our buddy Travis, who runs a account on Instagram called Giants of Ancient America, who catalogs all the archives of giants being discovered. He went there with us and he found him, but he talked

to the guys there and they said, dude, in the 80s, they came in and they started chiseling out the giant human tracks because it didn't fit the narrative. Yeah. So all of a sudden, they took the signs down. They took the signs down because you had human entities and dinosaurs existing at the same time. So I would say that there's probably dinosaurs and dragons and these things. They were coexisting with us since the beginning of time where you had these Leviathan-type things in the Bible. What are those? I think there was just, I think one thing that we try to tell Christians is that any way that

these entities could rebel against God, they did. Yeah. They took anything that God made and screwed with it. Plants, animals, people. It was like a rebellion beyond Las Vegas. Oh, yeah. We think, oh, God flooded the world because it just got bad. Everyone was doing naughty things.

Yeah, real naughty. I'm thinking we have no idea the level of depravity that some of these things can do. And so the flood was a massive act of generosity to preserve the human species. So I think it got pretty wild back then. Like a party beyond you. You go to dinosaurs, John. You know, well, all right. So, let's just land of the loss.

I think dinosaurs are in that, probably. But they were part of that. A, I think none of this, none of this, let's say conspiracy theories or, um, he's just like, we're nuts. These guys are nuts. We got to wrap this up in a second. But none of this mattered prior to the internet because you're like, well, this village or this, they believed.

It didn't really. it didn't really matter because the information and the phone and there wasn't prior to 1990 these were just everything was like JFK could happen because they didn't imagine an internet where everybody you had like five TV stations you had newspapers it was very easy to control control because there was no not everyone had a camera in their pocket there was not two lonely dudes that wore black they were like let's start a podcast yeah yeah why you have to throw a lonely Yeah, that was unnecessary. They both have families.

We're lonely now. No one wants to talk to us. That's true. But, okay. Thanks, John. No, okay, so prior to, you could just say it would very easy. It's easy to say, hey, just get rid of the evidence in Texas. And then that is now done.

Right. Because it doesn't, if the bone or whatever, right? Right. So this doesn't. So now these are all, all these things are growing exponentially in this community that you all, y'all live in, but everybody's in this. By the way, they're, oh, wait a second, wait a second, wait a second. Right.

And I think the last three years should make you say, wait a second. On everything. If you didn't get, if you didn't get some kind of pill, like red pill, pill, black, whatever it is, if you didn't get, that 202 didn't wake you up. Horse pill. Yeah, but prior, yeah. So you go, oh, wait a second. Right.

And that I think is as open the door to all these things where some things are obviously fake. Well, it's coming around. But in closing. I'm just I'm saying what is what is the what is the negative effects of like going down these roads yeah is a good question does that make sense because he's like dude yeah this guy like hey he's giving up on his family and he lives out in the woods and he's going to like all right yeah yeah we got to still live I still got a mortgage I got to pay we used to you got a fan we we got you can

but we know people that are so far down here that they can't come to Christmas anymore right because they're like pulling us aside. That's what I think it's pagan. The second twin tower was hit with the, we don't have to go on all that. But yeah, yeah. No,

yeah. I think you're right. I think, hey, you want to do 9-11? How do we, how do we, what I'm saying is,

how do we interact with this? Yeah. The other worldly or supernatural Christian or general, what you call conspiracy theory. Yeah. And be open to be critical, but without going overboard.

Oh, I think it's so important to be critical. Like, critically thinking is so important. I think, it's very easy to to sort of spin off into there's a devil under every rock and think that every

and that every conspiracy theory is true and everything that everything is a lie. There's like famous quote by C.S. Lewis about that. You know, he was saying like you can work yourself into one or two camps where there's no demons and then everything's a demon.

Yeah. But it's kind of that middle ground trying to walk the line. I think that's what we try to do on our show. If a kid is like, I want to go to like New Orleans is the most common. and I'm going to go in the tarot and the card reading and the astrology.

Like, dude, if you read it in us weekly, you're like, oh, this means I'm going to meet a boyfriend this week. I don't think, I believe in a power in ourselves that is greater than that. But if you give yourself over to that, I do believe in the influence of that. Yeah, a lot of people say they have, they start having alien encounters after they go to a psychic. An alien just meaning other... Dductions or they have these memories and then something starts happening that they can't control. Yeah. So they gave up some sort of, they gave up some sort of access and then or control over their own, you know, destiny or whatever you want to say it.

Or open to themselves. If you're a child, I'm going to open, you're like playing with a Ouija board or whatever. You're like, all right, you are just like I'm saying, I'm going down to Peru in the name of Christ. You are saying by opening this, you are. inviting, and I do believe that that is good and evil are real. Right. And I think that's why we call the blurry creatures, because we stay in that lane. We talk about creatures.

Yeah. And each episode is usually about a creature or about a weird event. Yeah. But, yeah, I think that Christ is the king of kings. And I think that you have to realize that there are other kings, there are other principalities. If you say he's the king of kings, then there must be other kings. Yeah.

Exactly. But ultimately, you start to realize, like, you have to lean into it. Old English. We were always in a war. I think we went to sleep at some point. And then we kind of felt like, oh, that's, I don't really think anything's crazy. It's happening. But I think it, you have to take your faith seriously, for one.

You have to take some of these stories seriously for two. And you have to kind of pick, like, where you fall in that. I mean, some people, thank God there are people out there, like attorneys that dedicate their life to freeing a human that was in, you know, wrongly put in prison. And I think all of us have a role to play in this, like, whatever you feel like in the pursuit of truth. Yeah. And so you can't, you can't do it all. And I don't think we do it all, but we try to say, look, you know, people are having crazy PTSD because they have these experiences that they can't explain. And nobody will listen to them, especially the church. So they come on our podcast and say, look, this is what

happened to me. I've been abducted by aliens my whole life. Take it or leave it. And you go, we can't tell your pastor this. Yeah. But so we give them a venue and an avenue. And sometimes y'all, admittedly, do leave it. Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes you go, yeah.

And sometimes you go, no. And that's a, that we all have to. It's a journey, right? And I think you have to be balanced. That's the point is that. Your wife is like, hey, dude. No, I often bring up, often bring up, uh, the art of war, which is Sun Tzu, right? That Nicolas Cage movie?

Yeah. That is, uh, Lord of War. Oh. That's actually might be the best. I was making a joke, but good. thing we actually did clarify that because i'll be i'll be going on that or con air is tough to top to time but i mean but i think left behind i think what sun zoo says in this in this book right is directed all these military generals of all references this has been like the um

maybe one of those important books in welfare or warfare yeah and what he said what he says is essentially to distill it down is if you know yourself and you know your enemy you can be victorious know know know yourself know not your enemy you'll fail no no not yourself and know your enemy you'll So the idea, I think, for us is like, number one, be measured. Like, this is critical thinking, like, spit out, spit out the bones and chewing the meat. We're just looking for better answers. Number two, it's important to understand we are in a world of war. And if you're a Christian and believe this, you know, there's a kingdom of darkness that

wants to steal, kill, and destroy. So understanding that and not putting your head in the sand and believing that everything, everything necessarily is rose-colored. But I also think that what we try to do is take a look at all this, this darkness and what's happening, you should be aware of this. And then bringing it back to you. insane, but remember that we have, we went. Nothing to be scared of. That Christ, Christ is victorious. Yeah. Yeah. The gospel is the most important and most amazing story that everyone told more

than anything else. And that, and that with Christ, we stand in his victory. So we've already defeated all this, right? But I, that's in the book too. It is. And so I think that's, it's so important. Like you can't, I think you can't put your head in your sand in the sand and and pretend this doesn't exist because at some point and we're seeing this the last few years, it's catching up.

You can't put your head and you can't put on the tinfoil hat. Right, well, you could put it on. You can buy a whole roll hats. You can buy a whole roll hats but don't get it.

Try it on and then see where it takes you. But like, you know, like one of our last episodes, I think a lot of people could maybe jump in if you want to listen to our podcast. We did an episode on The Bones of Moses.

It might be a good place to start with our buddy, Joel Matamale. Talking about Gabriel and Satan fighting over the bones of Moses. This is a story. This is just dropped in Jude or whatever. And, you know, it's bizarre.

You have two entities fighting over the bones of some human guy. It's in our Bible. So if you want to jump into blurry creatures, that's probably a good place to start. And we do get biblical sometimes, but it's not like... Well, mostly we do. But sometimes we're just talking about a Bigfoot encounter or whatever. And there's nothing real. There's no real, like, spiritual lesson to be learned.

Just lay hands on the big guy and pray for him, you know? If you want to get into blurry creatures, that's the way to do. If you wanted to get into net positive, you can hear me, talk about hitting a drunk guy on Broadway last weekend. So whatever, whatever course you want to go blurry creatures and net positive. But thank you guys for having on, man. I can chat with you guys for hours, man. We love to thank you. Thank you for having us. That's great. This is fun. It's big time.