Blurry Creatures - EP: 253 Nefarious with Directors Chuck and Cary

Episode Date: July 26, 2024

This week we dive deep into the movie "Nefarious." The movie follows the story of a convicted serial killer who claims to be possessed by a demon. On the day of his scheduled execution, he gets a psychiatric evaluation, during which he makes a terrifying prediction. He claims that before their time is over, the psychiatrist will commit three murders of his own. During this interview, writers and directors Cary and Chuck reveal the inspiration behind the movie and share their experiences while filming it. They also touch on the challenges they faced while bringing this chilling story to life. We encourage you to see "Nefarious" and experience the full impact of the film's riveting story. You can get our book of Enoch here: https://amzn.to/3xriiUB Support the show! www.blurrycreatures.com/members Socials instagram.com/blurrycreatures facebook.com/blurrycreatures twitter.com/blurrycreatures Music Kyle Monroe: tinytaperoom.com & Parker Mogensen Outro Song: On the Run by TimeCop1983 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Well, he loved this movie. He said this was the most realistic movie on exorcism ever. The most realistic portrayal of possession, a demonic possession ever. And he also said, this is the stuff in talking about with the nefarious thing where he's like thinking 53 moves ahead. He says, yeah, that's what we deal with every day. That's just the way it operates. All right, we're going back into the Blurryverse today. And this is a long time coming. This is one of those episodes.

It was like it reminds me of David Politis missing. It took us like two years to get him on the show. Yeah, yeah, that's right. Dave was, he was elusive as a Sasquatch. Well, you know, you got to establish some credibility before people want to come on your show. There's a million podcasts out there in this space. And I appreciate you guys for listening to our podcast and sharing it around, obviously. And then the guys who produced the movie Nefarious, we've been teasing this for like over a year.

And one thing or another happened, you'll hear that in this episode, why the episode didn't happen. And just, you'll hear their story of how they try to make this film. And it's an accurate portrayal of a inmate. I don't know, I won't give away too much who's even possessed, and there's a psychiatrist who's trying to interview and figure out what's going on with this person and evaluate them, and it's an incredibly powerful movie. It's woken up a lot of people to the dark, like what the darkness is and what we're all entrenched in and battling on a daily basis.

So the writers and the directors of the film, Chuck and Kerry on this one. Yeah. This has been a long time coming. We have teased this, Nate. This is one we want to do. Of course, the film came out in April. of last year. But these guys are, as you say,

they're producing films in media that are waking people up to the reality, the supernatural reality, right? And they're doing it as Christians. They're putting, you know, top quality film into the market, much like our friends at Kingdom

do the same thing with Andy Irwin and those guys. These guys are of the same vein that do to do these projects that are are revealing, you know, not only the nature of God, but the nature of the supernatural battle and realities we live in. And so it's great to get Chuck and Kerry. They wrote and directed the nefarious and we've had a, you know, comedy of air is trying to get to this to this date. But excited to have them on. If you haven't seen the film, you need to check it out. Maybe check it out before you listen to the episode. Or maybe this will be a good precursor that really make you

want to watch, watch the film. But as with all all films, some crazy stuff happened. But this is just on a whole other level. There was a great resistance. to this film coming out and you're going to hear why. And it's a pleasure and an honor to have Chuck and Kerry join us for an episode about their film

Nefarious. Let's get them on the show. The history of our earth is so different from what we can imagine. The Smithsonian that if they found out about a large skeleton somewhere was to go get it. I'm going to assume

at least one person. is right, because if one person's right to bust the paradigm, it all goes back to the fallen chair. And the problem with the modern day church, they have a very truncated view of the supernatural. This backdrop that's just pregnant with all kinds of meaning associated with this Mount Herman event. And this guy defects from the kingdom. That's a big deal. Welcome back to Blurry Creatures. We've got the directors from the movie Nefarious, which came out last April 23. Any of you guys out there who listen to our show, you've probably seen this. I watched it is one of those movies that really moves you.

It's not as scary as something like The Exorcist, but it feels more real. It feels more, it just, it makes you realize that, you know, the spiritual world is real. But we talk a lot about on our show, Chuck and Carrie, the sort of the origin of demons. Where did they come from? What is their ancient origin? And we bring on a lot of experts who kind of unpack that. But we know that these, you know, we just had the guys from Exorcists. files on the show talking about these modern day exorcisms too so we we talk about the ancient world

and we talk about what happens today but we kick off our show every time what are you guys's thoughts on bigfoot the creature big foot do you have any thoughts on that creature there's no wrong answer there's no right answer but it really kind of helps set the time well i i i i for one if i take off my shirt the hair on my back and stuff i can qualify so uh you know and i walk around in the woods I don't know. I mean, he seems to be busy walking around a lot

if he exists, but I, you know, I'm not on my big foot lore. I mean, it seems to me, I don't know. What do you think,

Chuck? I mean, it's, it's kind of a huge... I wish he existed because it'd be kind of fun, and it would be so much fun to find them. I don't know that he does,

but, you know, I could always hope, I suppose. Yeah. You know, I like you're saying, Kerry,

he does do a lot of walking around. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it would be nice if you saw him bringing down an antelope or something like that. You'd say, okay, that's Bigfoot. But it just seemed to walk from right to left every single time. If I had to, I'd say I don't think there's a big foot. But you know what? I know that's going to drive a lot of people crazy, but I know there are demons.

Well, you would like Bigfoot because the stories we hear, they get a little weird. A lot of people will say they'll either hear audible. They'll take over their senses. And so it's like, hey, you want to see the Bigfoot movie. Bigfoot will show you his film, what he's got going on in the woods. And it's people have said that on our show. It gets weird here, guys. That is better.

Speaking of weird, making this interview happen has been weird. Just getting you guys on the show. We had trying for over a year. And the listeners out there, it's been a long time coming. And we had wheels fall off trucks. We've had, we went through half a dozen reasons why we had to keep canceling this interview. So it's here. It's finally happening.

Guys. We've been teasing this for a while, too, Nate. We've told our members for a while. We're having the guys from Nefarious on. We're going to talk about the film and all the crazy stuff that happened in the making and during that. I was going to say, how did you guys come over with the idea and maybe take us from the beginning? And then maybe some of the research on demonic possessions and also just want to know some of the things making the film. I'd love to talk about those things today.

Just like, what happened? I'm trying to make a film like this because it seems whenever you do things like this, things get crazy. I couldn't agree more. I will say if you make a movie like this, your belief system will change. You will absolutely believe in God. You will absolutely believe in the devil. You will absolutely believe in good and evil because not only are there times when you see it, you can feel it all the time, but the amount of crazy things that are impossible,

mathematically, just impossible. And we'll go through some of that. But, you know, the way it all started was we had done a movie called Dunplan, which was a pro-life movie. And Glenn Beck, Steve Dase, on the Blaze, what happened was they actually were the only people that actually helped us. We had everyone in the world against us on that movie. And, you know, they tried to take out the movie, did not give us distribution. I mean, talk about evil, some of the stuff that's doing. And so we had problems on Unplan, but amazingly, we had more.

more problems on nefarious than we did on unplanned, which in front of the new. Oh, way more, way more. We had a hedge of protection around us when we were shooting unplanned, and we only didn't, we didn't have problems to went into marketing. Nefarious was beset from day one, literally. I mean, we still, okay, your listeners won't have a problem with this. I mean, it doesn't help when you start shooting in a haunted prison day one. So we had three days inside the wire out at Granite State Reformatory in Oklahoma.

and Granite Oklahoma is in the middle of nowhere. It's a town of about 1,700 people, half of them are incarcerated. We had the old Chief of the Guards walk us around. And 30 years ago, it used to be an open yard prison. Now it's a lockdown. But when it was an open yard prison, it was the most violent prison in the United States for decades, the most murderous per capita, all that stuff. And the guards were shown it.

So the Chief of the Guard has been there like for 40 years. He's tough as nails. He's like, yeah, here's where I saw my first murder. Here's where this escape attempt happened. We killed these guys. or whatever. He talked about, there were two things he talked about that were really crazy about that facility. There's a whole locked down wing, the old wing. And he said basically, okay, when we get a new guard on, sometimes we forget to tell them the drill. He says, when we

tour this cell house late at night, you know, we don't go down this, you know, these corridors. And they're big. And there's, he says, if we get a new guy, sometimes he'll say, hey, I hear the shower running down there where I see the light on. And he's like, now we have an incident. And if they say that we have an, if we have an incident, we have to go check on it. He says, it's just a problem. One problem, there hasn't been any water or electric down to that wing in 40 years. So they don't like that when they do that. Wow. Yeah, that wing is shut down. And so the, because they don't use it anymore. And it looks like it. I mean, there's cobwebs everywhere. There's guard. It's just, it's, it's like a rundown ghetto house, literally, because they just don't take

care of it. But then they said also in the middle of the night, you hear out of that wing hundreds of men snoring. And occasionally you hear people brushing, you know, the broom on the floor during the day. So you have these souls that are just basically locked there in some form of fast. Sometimes it feels like when you get that phone bill, it's like the crash site document. You can't read it. There's a bunch of numbers, random fees, vague language, stuff's blacked out. You're like, what am I actually paying for? I don't know about you, but I like keeping my money where I can see it. I like to be simple.

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we will often hear it. He says, I have no explanation for it. There's no, you know, because the inmates that are currently are in lockdown, you know, basically air to other facilities. They get their air condition. They're completely soundproof.

You could murder in somebody and you wouldn't hear it and, you know, and they just, in the middle of this, quiet in the middle of these fields in the middle of nowhere. That's what they hear. That was the beginning. That was like day one, two, and three. And so we knew this was going to be crazy, but it got crazy from there.

Over a period of time, the shoot was only 13 or 14 days. But everything you could imagine, six days before we were doing the shoot, we had a barbecue, you know, to get the whole crew together. So, you know, keep up everybody's camaraderie and everything like that. We got banged with COVID. It wiped us out, took out all the key players, and I was in the hospital and stuff. And so that cost us crazy amounts of money because we had built the set. And that was a $600,000, you know, oops kind of thing. And then that was just a beginning.

Then from that moment on, every single thing, every text message, every email, every cell phone would not work properly. By the way, we were spiritually prepared. We had a husband and wife pastor team on set. We had an exorcist trained Catholic priest on set 24-7. And it was still, okay, we put, the priest put five pounds of exercised soul. That's like heavy-duty stuff around the arena where we film before we finally filmed there. Well, what was his payback? Well, a few days into shooting, he said the mass at 10.30 at night on the Sunday night because our schedule is irregular.

within four hours, he's getting an emergency appendectomy, and his appendix first stirring removal, and the surgeon tells him if you'd gotten here an hour later, we would not be having this conversation. So literally, our exorcist is taken out, like, in the first day, you know, that kind of thing. It was crazy. But it was a constant barrage because, you know, for example,

I was sitting next to Chuck, and I would be sending emails or doing text and answering, phone calls, he'd be doing stuff regarding nefarious, we need this, we need that. He couldn't get it to work. Then we would change. I'd say, oh, let me do it. I may be in the right, you might be in the wrong place. Then when I was doing the same thing that he was trying to do, those emails, those text

messages, those cell phones calls would not work. We couldn't do it. Well, the most specific case was, yeah, where he's talking about with the emails. So our Newsweek interview had to be taken three times. The first time, for the first time in his career, the batteries had apparently failed an individual recorder for the journalist. The second time, all of his data mysteriously disappeared. And the third time, he said, why don't you just email me? Why don't you write your answers to my questions?

And the time when he's talking about what I just could not send an email, and he's sitting across the table. We tend to work across a conference table, across the belly of a conference table. He's on one side, side, mom, on the other. He can send emails just fine. I can't say it takes me 20 minutes to send an email wow this is like I mean well I mean this this raises a lot of questions we've been talking about lately on our show is like what can demons actually do like what can they they and I think there's a difference between the souls that were like lingering in the jail cell and actual demons that are that are manipulating things and one one recent or one of our guests

recently said that demons are so smart they can read they temperature on your skin and how you react to certain things and they almost like a physician, they know the details. And I, and I wondered, I was talking to Luke. I'm like, I wonder we should do an episode of what do people think demons can actually do to people? Because what we've learned on our show, Chuck and Carrie, is that, you know, people and Christians will just apply demonic to everything and they don't, they don't want it. It's more complicated than that. There are different types of entities and they do different things. And sometimes it's easy. It's all. all demons and I'm like, well, why would a demon be brushing a broom in a prison? You know, why would he,

it doesn't make it a lot of sense. It's like he would be doing something else that's more nefarious, as you would say. Yes. Well, I think that, I think that we have to understand, we don't understand the spiritual world. So straight off the bat, if you believe in God, if you don't believe in God, it's very hard for you to reason with any of that you come up with your own exclamations. If you do, there is an order to things. Demons and ghosts are two totally different things. A ghost is a trap spirit because it had an obsession or something kept it. It turned when it was a time to go for whatever reason it was stuck where it was.

In other words, it could be, for example, there was a lover or somebody that they're fixated on or somebody murdered them and they're stuck in whatever reason. A demon has been before man was even created. So demons were angels. Most people don't realize that that's exactly what they are. And a third of those angels rebelled in heaven, and they were cast down to earth by St. Michael, the angels in heaven. And they were thrown to the earth, and this was their domain.

What people don't realize, and I have seen a demon, by the way, I am not kidding. I woke up in my friend's bedroom, a friend of mine. I didn't feel good, and I had eaten something bad at lunch. I said, okay, if I go lay in the back room. room and I am not, I am as serious as a heart attack here. And I'm in a room and there was a lot of funky stuff that happened in this apartment building. And I'm laying on the bed and I open my eyes in about 20 feet right in front of the curtains is a demon. And it freaks me out. I scream at the top of my

lungs and I roll off the bed, right? In the quarter second, and then it disappeared immediately. And it so jarred me because I knew I was up. I knew I was not dreaming. And I had just seen this with my eyes right there. And I knew three things immediately. Number one, the incomprehensible hate it has for human beings. It is absolute. There is no grace in it.

There is no good in it. Unlike the movies, you can't negotiate with it. You can't talk to it. It wants your demise. not. It was full on it. The hate was so palpable in the room. I was having a hard time breathing. The second thing I knew was that if it could, it would kill me instantly. And like I said, again, contrary to the movies, there would be no battle. I wouldn't be, you know, kicking it across or it would rip me asunder. And the third thing was it, it was, it wanted at all costs to get at me.

In other words, it would do anything it could to do it. And its ultimate thing, and how do I know this, was my destruction, my loss of soul, my, and that's what it wanted. And I've had a couple of occurrences like this. One night, you know, a lot of people have those night dreams that they can't move. You know, you get that paralyzation. Night terrorist, yeah. Night terrorist, right.

That's demonic. That is not, you know, the doctors say, oh, no, it's not. That's demonic. I had a demon on my back, and I could, I woke. up in the middle of the night and I knew I was going to get raped. I knew I was going to get raped. And I'm not making this up. I'm laying there. I feel pressure on my rear. It's on my back. And I'm freaking out, but I can't move. I can barely breathe. The evil, I don't know what it is about evil. You lose the ability to breathe. It's so palpable. And so all I did is I prayed.

You know, I'm a Catholic. So I prayed to the Virgin Mary and I prayed to Jesus. and then it fled and that basically has been a lot of the anytime you open this this world up you're open to that and it is a scary demons are not to be played with one of the reasons we did a nefarious was people have an obsession with the cult tarot cards wiji boards all these things when you do that you become a lighthouse on a dark night and the demons will come and they use all kinds of things to enter into this world and enter into your life and ultimately for your destruction. And the bottom of it, we learned so much on this movie. And we had crazy things.

I mean, we literally, as a matter of fact, you said you just had Father Mortons, I believe. Yeah, yeah, Carlos. He loved this movie. He said, this was the most realistic movie on Exorcism ever. And he was the most realistic portrayal of possession. Yeah. demonic possession ever. And he also said, this is the stuff in talking about with the nefarious thing where he's

like thinking 53 moves ahead, he says, yeah, that's what we deal with every day. That's just the way it operates. It's a demonic genius that has got your demise under it. And you also have to remember from the moment you're born, you're surrounded by demons, that all they're doing is visually watching you. And they're watching. They know what turns you on. They know what turns you off.

They know what you like and what you don't like. their job literally is because they hate God so much and by destroying his creatures, that is how they get back at God. And so you got five or ten or however many demons around you. And basically you also have a guardian angel that protects you. But they're just watching. So that's why when you feel something or, you know, I wake up at three o'clock in the morning sometimes.

I don't want to go overboard here. But the bottom line is, and I'm thinking things in my head like I'm sexually aroused. or, but it's absurdly, it's over the top. It's always these extreme emotions that they, they, they want you to get in. You know, it's like, you know, I don't know if you're driving the car, all of a sudden you feel like you want to turn the wheel and go off the road and slam into a ravine or whatever, you know, crazy things like that and that's what they do. I mean, it's in nefarious, Father Mortons basically was on set at the premiere and I get a phone call,

I am not kidding. Okay? We get a phone call. We're doing the interviews in a suite in the marriott upstairs. You bring the talent up there, you interview them. You have the media come in. We get interviewed and stuff like that. It's the afternoon and early evening of the premiere.

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Right. So I'm like, okay, what is it? She says, you're not going to believe this, but there are demonic voices coming out of the couch. And I was like, excuse me, there are a demonic coming out of the couch. And she said, the lights in the room and you have a lot of lights. They're all flicking on and off in different sequences like somebody's playing a piano. and the sound mixers have frozen and the camera will not record.

Oh, my gosh. I said, I'll call you right back. I called Father Martin's up and I said, we got a problem. And I told him what's going on. He says to me, in a different voice, I'll be right there. At lunch, when we had lunch with this guy,

he's a funny, jovie. He's like Santa Claus. You know what he's like. He's a nice guy. He's a really nice guy. He's Portuguese, so think of Italian with a better love for seafood. Right.

It's just great. He's wonderful. And this guy, you know, lunch he's great and he's jovial and everything else. He's kind of like the uncle you wanted to barbecue. Then suddenly he says, I'll be right there. Well, it's like a scene out of the exorcist. He knocks on the door and he's standing in the hallway in his garb and his purple. He's got his cross and his holy water and his ancient exorcist book.

This guy is straighted his face as serious as a heart attack. You know why? what we figured out was he realizes he's going to battle against the devil. So when he walks in a room, he's intense. He walked across the room, turns around with his back to the window, five floors up. I'm not sure. We're five floors up, and he's got his back to the French doors to a balcony. The balcony is small.

It's only about three feet by three feet. So there's no room physically behind him for a human being, and he starts going into the 16th century Latin right, of exorcism of place. And a female demon starts singing in his ear and uttering foul things in his ear to distract him. We can't hear her, but he can. But he's fighting that.

Right. So he basically finishes the right. He says, yeah, I had a female voice behind my right ear. She was chanting deba balladically. He says, I don't know what the language was. I couldn't figure it out. He says, but I got to the part of the right where I declare, bow now before the holy and terrible name of Jesus. us and he's like she was out of here with them they fled the voice scream the talking the couch is gone the chanting in his ear is gone i mean it's like hammer meat nail then we put him in our truck and we immediately take them to where we're going to have the premiere which is cinemarks

flagship headquarters down here in plano texas and there's this monster flat floor 10,000 square foot lobby it's enormous but it's completely flat there's not a step in there anywhere and in the 30 minutes before we got there, two women in separate incidents had been thrown face down onto the carpet. They tripped hard onto their faces, and we're like, yeah, we know what this is about. Yeah. So, not only that, but you're in the room, and this is like, he's serious as a heart attack. I mean, he's doing the ancient prayer in Latin, okay, and you can feel the struggle. You can feel this battle in the room, but he's confident because he's got the power, right? And when he does it, all of a sudden, everything comes back to life.

No more flicking lights, no more sound problems. The camera is capable. Unbelievable. Now, you can say, well, I don't believe in God. That's fine until you see evil. Okay. Like, that's not coincidence, you know. So it's an amazingly powerful experience.

You know, we're on set shooting the film. And we got Sean who was amazing. Yeah, Sean did incredible. Oh, that was, he would have should have won the Academy Award. And we put him in for it, but then didn't respond. But we've got Sean, and he basically is doing his thing. And it would talk, it's one of the scenes about the devil. And the bottom line is what happens is the girders in the building start groaning like we're in hell. They're going and they're making this, this, it's like this choir of demonic screaming. So we call cut because you can't tape the scene like that. It's going to show up on the film. So we call cut, give it a couple of seconds, it all stops. We start shooting the film again. Same exact thing. So we decide we'll do a different scene that doesn't have to do with the devil.

We're doing this other scene. No problem. Not a thing. Now you tell me, we go back to the depotic scene. It starts again. What is your crew? Obviously, have people on set that probably aren't. They just work movies.

What are they thinking? They were freaked out. They were freaked out. We were told it was the highest sustained winds in the history of the state of Oklahoma. Now, let's remember this is Oklahoma where like the song says, the wind comes sweeping down the plane. That's right. Oklahoma. And it wasn't just the support beams of the ceiling that were groaning because that was really happening too.

But the HVAC, the sheet metal that was up there somewhere, sounded like was being tortured. It was squealing. It was just really freaky. Well, we had atheists. We had atheists say to us, they looked up and they said, whoa, it sounds like we're in hell. Now, these are atheists, not believers. And it's so obvious to them. Okay.

12 car crashes in 13 days. All the cars totaled. Not one person hurt. Wow. Okay. So I'm talking about cars getting ripped in. half. The night of our premiere, our booking guy goes home, back home, short flight, short hop from Dallas to Phoenix, his ear bump drum bursts. The busiest week of his life, okay?

His ear drum, Steve Dase winds up mysteriously in the hospital, almost dying from Mercer infections that came out of nowhere, not once, but twice. And the doctor tells him, this is the most painful procedure that can ever be done without anesthesia, but we got to go do it. And then just a, just a cherry on top of the ice cream Sunday. So we're in before the movies premiere, we're in L.A., in Burbank specifically. And the roof of the building gets torn off in the middle of a rainstorm, torrential rains and destroys the whole building. Everybody moves out. There were only two things going on in that building. Post-production on the Chosen and the marketing campaign for us. Only building in Burbank it happened to. Only building in L.A. it happened to. It was a microburst that took out the roof,

not like put the roof in the alley of one building our business partner and producer is uh his wife is in the vehicle in his car in the front seat and he's got two boys in the back seat you know two and four and he he's in the street and he goes to the back door and he reaches in to put the baby in the car seat and as he does that the kid kicks his hand away so he steps back and then he goes deeper in because he's got to reach over the kid to get it in there at that exact instant 45 miles an hour, an SUV hits the door that's leaning on his back, missing him by a quarter of an inch, rips the car in half. Him, his wife, his two kids, totally fine.

Wow. And here's why, I'll tell you why. Because there is an order in the universe. There is a God and there is a devil. The devil basically runs by fear and confusion. Threats. He intimidates. He lies.

Jesus, I will tell you, we were in deep prayer because we needed protection on this. And he said to us, literally said to us, put on your armor, I will take you into this battle. I will protect you, but you need to have faith. Put on the armor of God, your helmet, your, your mail. And it was so obvious that there was a struggle going back and forth that you're watching it play out in front of you. You're watching good and evil play out in front of you. You guys wrote the film, wrote and directed the film. What was it that, like, from the beginning of the impetus,

what was it that you want to tell through the film or an expose? Why do you think, in telling that you had so much resistance to the message? I just think that, well, originally, we didn't really want to do the film. Now, we had always wanted to do something about, like, C.S. Lewis's screw tape letters for those people, what it is. But we want to do a mature version, an adult version, you know, that kind of thing. Something that was serious, not comedic. Steve Dease, like I was going to say before, he basically wrote a book.

book called Nefarious Plot. And he had helped us on our plans so we felt we became friends. So he called us up one day and he said, how much would it cost for us to make this movie? And I said, I don't know, Steve. Now we're friends at this point. So, you know, we're just having a casual conversation. And he's like, well, just give me an idea. And we go through it.

And I eventually said, I don't know, two million. Well, next morning we got a check for two million dollars. And it's from his team. Okay. And I'm like, oh, man, now we've got to do this. So we try to get out of this for, we got to try. We tried to get out of this for... I said I felt like a dog has spent its life chasing fire trucks,

and now I caught one, and I got to figure out what to do with it. When we thought of the subject matter, we realized that the occult, pagan worship, there is this occultness, even in the movies now. I went to the movie theaters last night to see Twisters, which, by the way, is good. And there were nine trailers, all of which were phenomenally demonic.

Yeah. Dainterously demonic. The world has taken to embrace. The devil is busy. I believe his time is short. The devil is busy because the problem is he's using these tools to bring people to him. Okay. So you've got tarot cards, fortune tellers, yoga.

You've got all these things that people have no idea. So we said, we felt the Lord was going to use this movie to fight back, right? To show people, look, I am not. Because people blame God all the time. Yeah. Okay. They say, why'd you do this to me? God is not the bad guy.

He's the good guy. The devil is the bad guy, but he hides in the shadows. One of the reasons we believe we were so assaulted violently in so many ways is because the devil doesn't like being revealed. So he doesn't want the movie to succeed. He rips and rins and tears and he tries to scare you away from doing it. And so we knew we were taking on the occult. And so when you take on the devil, by the way, I would tell anyone in the case,

your audience. If you don't believe in the devil, declare war against him and find out what happens and then call the show and tell people what happened. Okay? You will find out very quickly that your belief system changes. Declair war against the devil and see what happens.

We were throwing rocks at his house and he threw some back. It's basically what it boils down to. I always felt like as part of the theme of the movie itself was ultimately became, not that we said how to do it, it's scared straight for Christians. That's what it really is and to stay away from all this occult stuff.

The most interesting lecture I went to when I was in college was by an old Jesuit priest who was the technical advisor on the exorcist. And he said, we don't tell, and he was an exorcist by trade. That's all he did. He went around the world without exorcism. It's kind of like Father Carlos does now. He said, look, we don't tell you not to do this stuff because it doesn't work. We tell you not to go near this stuff because it does.

And that is the whole problem. You know, there was, it's dangerous. And the worst, I know you were talking about the difference between ghosts and demons, the place where people dabble where they really get themselves in troubles when they try to channel and do stuff. The scariest book I ever read was a thing called hostage to the devil. It was the story of four then current exorcisms back in the 70s. And it would give the history that possessed, the history of the priest, then literally an account of the exorcism.

And what was an exorcism of a psychic who was world-renowned? they'd actually found a Roman temple lost for 2,000 years. It was especially amazing because they found it where it wasn't supposed to be. It was 10 miles from where they thought it was supposed to be, and he found it mentally. And they got to the point of the exorcism where the demon has to answer honestly. In the Catholic right, a big part of the exorcism process is he backed the demon into the corner where they have to answer honestly. So they got to that part of the right. And he said, basically, how did he know this stuff?

And the demon's answer was, the living are surrounded by the dead. Those who are under our control, we have speak as we will. And that is the problem. When you attempt to do that, you're communing with an actual dead spirit who a demon is overseeing and commanding to speak. They have the knowledge of that person, that they're controlling the spirit of that person, and that is being channeled into you. And if you're not, if you're, if an audience member is not horrified by that thought, I suggest they think about it for five more minutes before they play with.

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The Hilton sale is on now. Book on Hilton.com or the Hilton app and save up to 20% to get the stay you expected. When you want savings, not so. surprises. It matters where you stay. Hilton, for the stay. It makes a lot of sense why these young kids will be like, tell their parents, like they have this whole memory of a past life, and it seems like something's telling it. And I think a lot of times people think possession is just obvious. You're obviously, you know, but they can do all sorts of things without actually taking over the

host, you know, and like they can mess with electronics. I mean, Luke and I've gotten into this podcast and the things we get emailed, the stories that we hear. Sometimes we have to scratch our heads, and you have to adjust your paradigm in the middle of an interview and say, if this guy's telling the truth, this is so much more complex than we want to give it credence to. And a lot of Christians, I don't know why, but it creates this knee-jerk reaction of like, you guys talk about too much. You guys go too far. And I'm like, we're just trying to help people realize that they're in a world of war. You know, we're caught up between heaven and hell, having this war. And being naive and close-minded isn't going to help you.

But you could be inviting and participating in some of these things. without knowing it. And I think we're just trying to expose it as much as we can. And obviously, like, you know, we're a podcast. You come listen to some of the scary stories, but we don't sensationalize things. We try to, you know, really flesh out, like, is this actually happened to somebody.

And one of the things lately we've been talking about is just, and this is a whole other rabbit hole, but just like the UFO abductions. And it sounds like human trafficking on a spiritual level. Like people are being messed with, not only spirits, like demons, but actual entities also as well. And it's very complex, and I think that it's good that you guys are sort of pushing forward this.

And I know that you're talking about Sean and just his role. So, I mean, those who haven't seen the movie, I don't want to give it away, but Sean is the inmate who kind of flips back and forth. And he did an incredible job. I mean, what a role. How do you prep and write and write somebody to portray a possessed person? That in of itself has got to be kind of a crazy undertaking. because you have an actor that's got to have the chops to do it. But you're also...

Yeah, what did he experience? Kind of like writing someone to act out being possessed. Yeah. It's difficult, but you know, we never... We prayed ahead of time for protection. We didn't want what most people don't do is they don't pray. They don't pray for protection. They don't get protection.

They don't get blessings. They don't get holy words. They don't go through any of this. And so they go into this. And then what happens is the demonic. invades and that's why you'll see a lot of demonic movies that the writer you know he doesn't understand why this is happening or that's happening or whatever it's because you went in unprepared and the demons are using this tool

to bring more people to them there are people don't realize when you go to see these demonic movies there are people in the audience getting infested by demons and people are just drawn to it why do you think the fanaticism is that people love these movies they don't realize because they're being lured in they're being lurid and they're being stimulated in a different way. The devil's at work there. One of the things, when we did this, we asked for protection. We never crossed the line to go into the demonic mentality.

First thing we told Sean was, you need to be very, very, very careful here because don't go to the dark place to channel the demon. And he said, bro, I've already put a lot of thought into this. I'm not going to do that. I'm just going to play it from Edward's point of view. that Edward believes he's possessed, but in reality, he's not, but that's the way I'm going to do it

so that I don't go into the demonic world, right? But no one will know that, right? But Sean's performance in this is off the hook. I mean, I've never, he was amazing. By the way, he's dyslexic. Interesting. He's dyslexic. You know, you should have him on your show.

He'll talk all about this. This is crazy. He's amazing. He really is amazing. And I will tell you that first day we're getting ready to go and we've been through everything through strikes and

COVID and every single a disaster you can do. And we're ready to go and five minutes beforehand, Jordan, who's the psychiatrist, has a baby. His wife literally calls him and says, we're just not a baby boy.

And so I'm thinking of myself, okay, there goes to movie because we're not going to keep the guy. He's got to go, right? The guy says, this is important. I'm going to stay. So they go and they get ready to do the first scene. Sean and Jordan rattle off 16 pages straight. That never happens in a movie. You do 20 second takes. They did 15 or 20 minutes without missing a word. Wow. Impossible. And we did five or six times we did that. So there was good and there was evil. It was a struggle the whole way through. Even they said it. Every single thing was an either or a yes or a no, a black or a white. There was no gray in this thing. So it was,

but both of their performance, but especially Sean, where he, I think it's the performance of the century. I've never seen anything like it. Yeah, I mean, that's what I thought. I thought it was incredible and how, what a difficult role to play. And it just is, the way he flips back and forth was seamless. And some of the stories we've heard, it kind of makes sense, you know, who you're talking to at this moment, you know. And I mean, I just growing up, you know, there was like the Frank Peretti books and we kind of grew up in that era of Christianity where you start to go, man, there's some creepy stories out there. And then obviously the Exorcist was such a huge movie growing up too. We're a little bit younger in you guys in the 80s. It was like, that movie freaked me out. And I don't even know why I watched it. But I think that, to some people, they need something like this to sort of jolt them. Because I think it's so easy to live in a space as a Christian where you're just kind of lifeless. You're just sort of, yeah, I believe, but, you know, until like something comes out of the woods and starts to attack me, I don't know.

You know, maybe it's mental health issues and all the things that the more of the progressive side of Christianity will say. It's like, it's, it's just mental health. This isn't real. This doesn't actually happen. But I think all these things that happen to you guys, it's more and more, it's not just a coincidence that 75 things go wrong, you know, trying to make a film. It's just like more so than any other film, you know, the average things that can go wrong making the film. Because I, yeah. I mean, I will say this, by the way, it's not only for Christians, this movie is scared straight for everyone. Yeah, totally. You know, if you really come to the realization that there are demons, then you've come to the realization that there are

angels. Therefore, there's a devil and a God. You've got to change. You've got to. your motif of the way you're thinking. You've got to think about heaven and hell. You've got to think about all these things. Most people are Luke one. They want to stay in the middle of the road and be comfortable. And they don't want to go there. This movie takes you out of your comfort zone.

Because the things he's saying, and by the way, I will tell you that that was Holy Spirit that was upon us. That scene where he says in all hell rejoices. That was literally, it came through my mouth. And it was horrifying. It was not me. It was God speaking to the audience. I'm telling you, because we had finished the scene and all of a sudden this erupts out of my mouth, and both of us stand there shocked.

You're sitting in a room by yourself, the two of us, and we looked at the ceiling and we looked up to the sky like, wow. It was so powerful. And then to see Sean and Jordan executed, incredible, unbelievable. How does this film, like the production standpoint and, the actual process, how does it affect the crew in the cast, the cast and the crew? Do you guys have, you said you had atheists on there? Do you have folks that, like, did find their faith because of just the bananas things that happens as you guys are trying to make this film?

Yeah, you know, when you have God, when you call God onto the set, he comes. So we've had miraculous healings. We have one girl who had Lupus, took five hours to get out of bed every day. This was on unplanned. and she wanted, you know, it was a pro-life movie. She had had an abortion, so this was redemption for her. She wanted to come and work for free, you know, do all the stuff. But she can't function.

She can't move. And a movie set is go, go, go. We said, we're really sorry. And she started to break down and she confessed to everybody. She had had an abortion. And she's crying. And she's like 26 at this point. She had an abortion when she was 19th.

And we just surrounded her and loved her, right? And everybody started to pray over her. bam, she gets healed on the... You had a miraculous healing on set in the middle of the shooting day. That's amazing. And then she ended up working on the movie and becoming a kindergarten assistant, a kindergarten teacher. He's a kindergarten first grade teaching assistant, not her dream job, but not something you do if you have no energy. Right, 100%.

That's amazing. Yeah. I was going to say real quick, Luke, like, you know, at. the end of the film, you were just talking about it, you know, it kind of reminded me a little bit of a film I remember that kind of moved me. Remember that Denzel Washington movie Fallen? Yeah. Yeah. Where, you know, and I think something that, that was conveyed well is these spirits are like parasitic. You know, once they kill the host, they'll move on to the next person. And you don't think about that. And some, you know, and the biblically, same time they'll come back

and they'll bring more of their friends, you know, and then multiple demons will. and we'll try to invade a host. And I think you guys captured that part really well. It's just like all of a sudden, you know, he becomes part of, you know, he becomes a believer because the spirit is like hopped, you know, hopped trains, so to speak. It's going on to the next guy. And I think that, I don't know, I really appreciate that part. I feel like the film was done really well.

I didn't know what to expect. I, you know, it's really hard for Christians to make films. It's really hard to produce a spiritual film. And especially something like this, it's easy to stay creepy. Let's stay creepy. Let's be a horror movie. It's really hard to actually have some substance and say, okay, what's the redeeming quality of this film? And I think you guys did that really well.

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had we allowed five seconds of boredom, we would have lost the audience. We had to keep, like, right there. Yeah. But I will, you know, I think there's a note that this, this has struck a chord in the American psyche on an unusual level.

The movie is booming. Everybody talks about this movie. We're having people that have seen this movie 15 times. It's crazy. That's wow. A woman called us the other day, and she said basically, I have 30 to 40 people every weekend over my house to watch this movie. And they're all coming to the church.

We're all coming to faith. That's awesome. And I'm like, okay, this is great. That's amazing. But, you know, I think people have to realize that this is scary stuff. But I would say to your audience this, you got to have hope. There are a lot of people who are going to be asking themselves on your show right now. Am I infested?

Do I have demons? Have I gone to fortune tellers and Ouija boards? And we've all done crazy. I went to Fortune Tellers. I did a Ouija board. I found a Ouija board under my grandmother's bed. I was seven years old. And I'm playing with it and things moving on its own.

And I'm like, yeah, this is boring. Praise God. Thank you, Lord, that I didn't get. Okay. So we all do these crazy things. But you have to realize that if you turn to God, if you turn to God, he is merciful and he will, you've got to have hope, no matter how bad your situation, you can be freed of this situation unless, and this is the only place, and the priest says this, unless you are voluntarily willing to basically stay in that position.

In other words, certain people want to be in that position. A willing possession can't be fought. They cannot be exercised away. But if you want, if you want to get away from this, there are ways you can do it. the Lord. Jesus, a lot, I saw a thing on the internet where Jesus was arm wrestling with the devil. That's heresy. Jesus is God. The devil is an angel. He's underneath them. If you saw, I wish your audience, I should have filmed it. I didn't think about it.

But when you saw the, when we saw the exorcism, you know the divine order. Hammer and nail. And the day, the demon is the nail. And the nail can't hurt the hammer at And when the hammer says, bam, it's over. Okay, so take hope in that. You know, I would hope that audience can take hope from the movie. And that's one of the things we want to do. We want to let people know, look, this is nasty stuff. Don't go there.

And even the stuff that's probably, actually, you guys may know this already. This was the old exorcist that I talked about, not the one on set, but the one I so speak a zillion years ago. He challenged his audience. He said, where does the word Ouija come from? you guys know no no he said it's we french for yes yeah german for yes he says you're saying yes yes to a willing possession well you are hoping you're calling you're literally calling a demon by using the board you're hoping it's temporary they're hoping it's permanent yeah yeah it's all it's all

order and i think that there is like what we've learned on it there's so much personal authority you know like you have to willingly give these things permission and they'll trick you. They'll trick you. They'll find some way if it gets you sort of give up your, like the ancient times, they give up your birthright,

give up your, you know, the thing that, you know, God has given you to protect you. And I think human beings, whether you choose them or not, are, you know, we are still made in God's image,

even if we don't willingly, you know, ask for God to, you know, to have a relationship with God. And I think that there is, there's so many things they can do, and to manipulate to get us to kind of give up sort of our authority and come in. Did you, do you feel like with this film, well, obviously, you're going to make nefarious

too would be one of the hardest films to make, I guess. I was going to make that joke earlier. Like, after all the crazy things, you want to make a second film, maybe it's just a one-and-done kind of movie. Well, what we were playing with, it's actually funny you say that. I'd like to do the TV show. and we laid out the first season, actually the first three or four seasons,

and I think it would be spectacular. And because we, okay, Jim Caviesel, by the way, you know, the guy who played in the back and Sound of Freedom, he called us up on, and I'm not making this up, he'll hear this show. He called us up and he said, I want you to come to my house in L.A. And so we went over to his house,

we spent the whole day all the way into late night. He'd seen the movie three times in the first five days. He says, I want to be in the sequel. And I said, we're not doing a sequel. I think we want to do a TV show. And he said, I want to be in the TV show. Imagine Jim across from Sean. It would be amazing with Jordan as well.

We have a lot of heat on this show, on the idea of this show. You know, and I think that what we've planned and laid out is spectacular. And it's never been seen on TV before. And it would be the same. What I don't want. want to do is I don't want the quality of the movie to slip because everybody something to TV and they lessen it. Oh, it's got to be that quality. It's got to be intense. It's got to be, you know, in your face. It's got to be real. It's got to have that dialogue and stuff

like that. But yeah, we're excited about it. We're trying to put it together, whether that happens, you know, it always comes down to money. But the bottom line is that we're very, very excited about it. When you make like a real accurate portrayal of sort of the spiritual warfare, It wakes people up. And a lot of times Christian culture makes Disney type of films. And it's just this Disney-esque. It just doesn't do it. And I think the church unfortunately falls victim to this too,

because it's sort of trying to be sensitive to like your average goer and, you know, families. But, I mean, you know, kids are learning about Noah's Ark and the flood of the world. But, you know, nobody tells them exactly what was going on during that time to cause such a thing. And it's funny how the church can later on in life, you can walk away. from your faith because somebody disnified, I don't know if that's even a word, the gospel, the story, heaven and hell, this war. And it's, when you do it tastefully, you get the naysayers and say, oh, you guys are glorifying the darkness, blah, blah, blah. But no, you're waking a lot of people up who have sort of lost touch with their faith and realize how serious it is, like what this

all is, what we're a part of and what we're battling. And I think you guys did that really well. And I know I said that earlier, but there's a lot of value in doing it right. And doing it as tastefully as you can and as artistic as you can, which is really hard to do anything at that level, you know? Yeah, no, I agree. You know, what's happened is the compromise. It's all about compromise now. Yeah.

Every pastor or priest, they want their church to be happy, so they keep coming. And we play music and we do all this stuff. You know, I think Jesus would have some real issues with a lot of what's going on. Because the bottom line, Jesus was very specific on the things he said. And we have to go back to telling the truth. We got to go back to saying there is good and evil. They don't talk about hell anymore. So if you don't talk about hell, how do you expect people to be scared of hell?

We wanted a sobering arrow to penetrate into somebody's chest where they say, I've got to get myself. We succeeded because I will tell you, we got droves of people saying this did this. And I'm going back to church and I've got to stop with the fortune telling and the the tarot cause and all this stuff. I mean, when they, when people really find out that this is real, they try to change. They do try to change. And I think that you're right, a thousand percent.

I think the church is everybody, everything is lukewarm in the world now. You know, it's about comfort. It's about pleasure, especially in America. Now, if you're in Africa and you're trying to find food and water, obviously that dominates your mind, right? Do you ever notice that poor people are closer to God than rich people, or even people that are doing well? They've got nothing left. They need it.

They need help. Right. Yeah, they need God to come through. But they're also happier because they understand that God is real. And the problem is the devil uses all the pleasures to lure us away from God. And it's the same thing in the church. You know, you'll hear a sermon and you're falling asleep because the guy's like, well, you know, what we do. do, and that's why we, in the movie, by the way, had the priest come in with a progressive,

a liberal attitude. Yeah. And he basically is like, well, you know, that's really not, you know, that's old thinking. New thinking is there's no such thing as demons and angels and exorcism. And that's when all of a son, Sean, is no longer scared. And he sits down and he says, really, I should have invited you in sooner. You know, it's crazy. Well, I mean, I heard on NPR of all places that the Catholic Church is hiring more exorcists than ever before in the history of the church. I heard that on NPR of all places a couple years ago. So what? You know, really?

Well, Father Martins goes all over the world. The guy who is literally on your show a couple of weeks ago goes all over the world. He takes on the worst demonic possessions in the world. The church in itself is in a struggle. And I'm talking every church. You have your conservative, traditional side, and you have your liberal side. And they're fighting. the church that is conservative is bringing on exorcists because there's problem people are being infested

the liberal side is saying there's no such thing it's here take medicine you know what I'm saying I believe personally 95% of the problems and issues you have in this country other than the corruptions and things like that a lot of our issues are demonic oh yeah it's it's just straight demonic, you know, but, you know, obviously not everyone believes that, but I believe that the reason Afareth was made is that the Lord wanted to show the truth. That's all. And you don't need to defend the truth. You don't need to kind of protect the truth. The truth is the truth. Yeah, it should be, I mean, I feel like that's how the scriptures are written. It'll just say things, like don't practice necromancy. It doesn't say, oh, well, maybe you don't believe you.

you can commute with the dead. It's like, no, don't do it because it exists and you can actually talk to the dead. Don't even try. And I think that we've kind of grown up with a, with a lot of pastors who don't even know if they believe half of the things that are written in the Bible. It's like, and I think Luke and I get into that a lot on our show. Talk about the ancient giants. We talk about how spiritual entities sort of were melding together and created all these abominations. And then there's sort of lingering effects to this day. And people still see sightings of the craziest stuff. Werewolf creatures.

Hatman. All these just strange entities show up. We call them blurry creatures, obviously, on our show. But you wouldn't believe the hierarchy of dark entities out there. And it seems like there is a category like a kingdom phylum. There's different species of these things. I'll tell you what, one of the things that we used to that we had, this will flip you. Oh, by the way, I think you guys are doing a great show, by the way.

And I just want to say, you have an effect as well on. these people, everyone who listens to the show obviously really digs your show. There's one kid especially, I was talking to his dad, he's a writer, he's doing a project with us, and the boy's name is Gavin Schober. And he is autistic and he's a great kid. And he adores your show. Your show is like the coolest thing. I mean, like, this kid is on fire for blurry creatures.

I just wanted to let him know that, and he said, his dad said, if you guys, guys have got to go on blurry creatures. You got to go on blurry creatures. And I said, okay, we're going to go on blurry creatures and stuff like that. Shout out. Shout out. You've got a great dad. He loves you very much. And he's a good writer besides.

That's awesome. Love that. Love that, guys. That's cool. That's really cool. I had a question for you guys here. One of my, sort of my final thoughts with y'all is, is it personally, how does making this film and the process change you personally?

How does, how did that, how did it change you? Like, because obviously you can't go through all of this. And everyone in this, in this virtual room here, we're all Christians. We're all believers. But there's something different that happens, I think, when we actually get confronted with the reality of the supernatural. I believe that most of our days are pretty mundane now. It's maybe not yours. It sounds like you guys have some crazy stuff, at least from the filming.

But most of us kind of do our things, go to work. And, you know, you have your coffee and you hang with your family. And you don't get to all the wild stuff. But every once in a while, the supernatural reality re-inserts itself into your life. And you go, man, you forget that we're born into a world at war. And this stuff is happening around us. But you guys lived it for 14 days. And how does that change you on the other side?

Chuck? It drives you closer to your faith. You know, it just does. I mean, I've got a Benedictine crucifix. That's the Catholic exorcist crucifix on my bedside table. You know, little kids have a teddy bear. I got that there. You know, basically, you know, there were times it got a little crazy, a little wild.

But, you know, it's basically, I'll go back to Father Martins. He said, basically, one of the limitations of demons is that even their prince, they can only be in one place at one time doing one thing. And he said, if you actually got him to get up off the couch, he says which I believe you did to fight this movie said you're doing something right and please keep doing it I mean we're humbled we're humbled you know we were called to make a pro-life movie

in a world that's pro-choice yep we have the FBI knock on our door at 7 o'clock in the morning on my birthday we had the grand jury subpoenas in hand first they wanted to have a discussion without benefit of counsel before morning coffee we said we don't course they did that so they're like

okay here's your grand jury subpoenas And then we have the DOJ, we had the IRS, ordered us for a year, a year. They couldn't find a dollar. And then they're like, you know, how can we not find a dollar? Everyone cheats on their taxes. I said, it's Jesus. That's right. We don't steal, bro.

We don't steal, okay, because we're trying to be good. One of the things that we've done, it's humbling. Because we feel that we're called to fight this darkness. We feel that we're called to do good. And we're trying to do it. And you look, movies are the most power in TV. shows the most power what you guys are doing is the most power you have whether you guys realize that you have a tremendous responsibility people are

listening to what you say every word we say will be accounted for but when we look at this and we look at nefaris you're looking at on plan you look at god's not that you look at any of the movies that we intend to do it's it's it's humbling because you've been called to do this thing i look at my life and i say what value is my life i always as a kid i want to be president or a king or have my own country, you know, whatever it is, you want to do something in your life, right? All of a sudden, the Lord calls you to do something for him. And then you see the fruit of that. I mean, when we did on plan, we had thousands and millions of women emails, text message,

phone calls, coming up to us, hugging us, okay? I've never had a time in my life where women liked me more, okay? I mean, it was crazy. And, but, but, you know, we didn't condemn them. We said to them, look, if you turn to God, you'll find your freedom and it'll forgive you. Okay. What? I mean, that went around the world.

Nefarious. We've got people who said they were possessed and they did this. This is, this is about, you guys both said it. We're in a war right now. I defy anyone to look at what's going on in the world right now. And tell me it's the same as it was 10 years ago. Yeah. The darkness is encroaching.

Well, they don't make comedies. They don't make comedy movies anymore. You don't see them. And do you know why? Why don't you, they make comedy movies anymore, do you think? It makes people happy. It makes people happy. It gives them hope.

There you go. It pushes off the darkness. It's light in the darkness. The power of what we're doing in media, the power of what the four of us are doing is so powerful because you can, with a, with a, with a, a laugh or a smile or just a good movie change people's lives

and all of a sudden they turned back to God away from the darkness. I will tell you I believe that the devil's panicking. I believe he's scared. I believe the demonic is going all for it. They're all in. Nine trailers last night all demonic. The first

one by the way was teaching you with you Grant. Heretic, Chuck, describe the It's horrible. It's absolutely. I was, the other horror ones were bad. This one was disgusting. So two teenage girls, not going to guys to where, do you know Jesus, they're trying to spread the faith. He's like, well, why don't you come in?

They're like, well, we can't come in unless there's a woman. He's like, oh, my wife is here. There's no wife in the house. He gets them in. And he's going to torture them to try to get them to deny their faith, basically, or realize that there is no faith. And they're obviously going to be, in his mind, killed or whatever. And he's like, you may want to die.

you know and before this is then you'll see you'll see and it it was so awful sitting there through that trailer i just felt the adversary's like laughing it was so it was awful it was just awful but it also said to us what we're doing keep doing right yeah you've got to fight the fight We cannot give up. We have to keep going. We've planted the cross on the hill, and this is where we intend to fight the final fight. It's in the media. And the Lord, in prayer, has told me, by the way, that he intends to take the culture back through the media.

Let's go. You know, it's funny because I was thinking about it the other day. Actually, it's just that, and I'm supposed to this and send us some friends, is like, when I think about, like, what's happening, like, the progressive side of Christianity, it's, they want a Jesus with no authority. They want this moral, they want this moral code that seems nice, but they don't want to have any authority. And when you start talking about the darkness, you realize there's only one authority over it all. Jesus is the Son of God, and he has all authority here on heaven and earth to vanquish all these things. And I think that the trap on the live progressive Christianity is that Jesus is like a, it's a moral code. You follow it. We all

have the Christ conscious. It's like, no, he is, he is, he is actually out there fighting this. And I think that's the trap. Is that we, let's just be nice Christians and not actually tell people where the authority is and what happens when you call upon that name. And I think, I think when you're dealing with demon possessions, obviously, that's what people, that's the difference. When you tap into the power of Christ, then all of a sudden this stuff goes away and stuff starts to fall apart. and it isn't it isn't just random yeah and to your to your guys's point i always quote this but uh one of my favorite movies the usual suspects at the end he says the greatest trick the devil over pulled was convincing the world didn't exist and i think that's maybe what's your your struggle right is is that

is that he wants to stay on the sidelines and and all these things pretend like no no no there's just not this evil in the world it's just there is no devil there's no adversary right and then when you you shine a spotlight on it and i think this is is what you're seeing, and we get sometimes too, is that when you're over the target, that's when the resistance comes. And Nate and I have talked about it a bit on the show, ad nauseum a little bit, is that, man, in some ways, it's a badge of honor, right? Because if you're not a threat to the kingdom of darkness, it's got no reason to mess with you, right? You're just doing, you're moving along and doing your own thing. You're not pointing people towards God.

You're not putting towards Christ. You're not pushing back the darkness, right? And when you do, that's when the bullseye kind of shows up. But that's, I think, at the same time as you, you're right over the target, right? You're on the, you're on the, you're on. You're it because otherwise yeah here's a unique point of trivia so we were a lower budget movie and uh when you make it a movie real movie your cameras are cheap they're the camera bodies these days are cheap lenses are expensive and they're expensive you don't buy them you rent them but they're still really expensive so we are director of photography found he said i got i found a set of lenses i really like he says they're old but they're good

they have a certain luck he said yeah this is actually this is actually the set that shot the usual suspects back in the... Oh, let's go. That's amazing. Kaiser Soze. That's right. You know, when Chuck was talking before, he said that there is a point where the priest backs the demon into a corner and then he has to tell the truth. Think about that for a second.

That they have to tell the truth because there's an authority in front of them commanding. What does that say? this is not random makingly. There is an order. There are rules. There are things they can do and things they can't do. They need your permission. If you rebuke them, they're rebuked.

Doesn't mean they're going to go away. Doesn't mean they're going to stop. And if you entice them. But there are rules in order to this whole universe that we just don't understand. Oh, blow your mind. This is from another exorcist who's this full-time exorcists. He said, basically, what people don't realize is that the formal right of exorcism, a major function of that right is the humiliation of the demon. It's all basically, it's all in play, and theoretically the demon could leave until the formal right begins.

And then at that point, their foot gets nailed to the floor, and they are forced to endure a horrible process until ultimately they are ejected. And he says basically it is awful for the demons, but it is part of their punishment process that they will now, by virtue of what they did that they should have done in the first place, they will now be forced to endure this process and this humiliation. I was going to ask a question about demon possession. Do you guys feel like some heavy narcissistic personality traits are a form of demonic possession, or at least things? Yeah, sure. I mean, I think, you know, we went over the four or five levels in nefarious, you know, oppression and infestation and so on and so forth. Ultimately, possession, complete, complete possession is the fifth level or whatever.

Okay. So, yeah, I think that there is, there is, you know, there are different degrees in which they force certain people. But when a person, you know, where they get control of people and it keeps going, I mean, we'll go through the whole process of how they do it. You know, it starts with a little thing, like he says in the movie, I stole a little toy car. And here it goes. I played with the Ouija board.

I went to Fortune and all of a sudden, they get deeper and deeper and they're digging in their hole. And it moved to each level. And like, which is why we went through it. And by the way, it was all based on absolute fact. Nothing in there was made up on our part. It was all factual stuff. We did our research. You talked to Father Martins and other priests.

Father Chad Rippock or other people. But yes, I do believe, but not only that. So, for example, I won't say names, but there's somebody, there's a woman that I know is incredibly lustful. And she fools around with literally everyone. And she's not a bad person, but she does it. She can't control it. It's like a spirit of Jezebel. It's a spirit.

It's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, and she's possessed. And she doesn't realize it. And she's struggling with it, but she doesn't want to. Because the demons have different flavors. Whatever the demon, ironically, whatever the demon is tasked at destroying or the evil is basically the flip side, a mockery of the virtue that they were originally intended to help facilitate or employ and help people go with in their original creation. So everything's a flip. So basically, you know, a demon of lust may have been to help an angel who is supposed to help protect and preserve chastity or love between a man and a woman. And when they go rogue, their power then is flipped and they're ironically working exactly in opposition to that which they were supposed to serve in the first place.

So their vices that they facilitate are in mockery of what they were supposed to serve. supposed to praise and help facilitate. Yeah, you either die the hero or live long enough to become the villain, right? Like you, you know, the old, yeah, the Batman saying, it's, it's like, I feel, I feel like that's, that helps people because I think a lot of times, like, we just, when we pray, we feel sort of like, what am I, what am I doing? Is anything happening when I'm praying? But it's like, you know, what you're participating in is like the life source of the communication with God and in this constant state of humility to protect yourself from all kinds of affliction. And I think that it's hard because some people on our show, like, they get

sort of paranoid. They think everything they find at a thrift store has a demon in it. And it's like, where's the balance? You know, either you're over the top and you're just, you have, you feel sort of the state of anxiety or you're completely on this side where you don't think anything, you know, anything is spiritual. It's just, ah, we're fine. You know, I'm okay. I just ate a burrito that had too much spices, you know, I'm fine, you know. Well, I will tell you, I will tell you, very interesting. We had a saint worshipper that became a believer, and the guy is on fire for Jesus. Unbelievable. But he was definitely lost. And we were interested in the story. Yeah.

Dead, by the way, just what you said, he said, what he told us was, I would go into stores like Hobby Lobby or whatever it was, and I would put curses on the ice. like there would be a Christian, you know, in this house, you know, Jesus lives, right? And I would curse, we would put evil on there knowing they would bring it back into the house. And that began the doorway into their house, right? So, you know, the way you, so, I mean, there is great evil out there. Another woman was sitting next to a person, I know, and she was stunningly gorgeous. And the guy says to her on the flight, you know, she's talking to him, and they're talking.

And she says, she says, I'm praying and I'm fasting. And he says what? And she says, oh, for the destruction of marriage. Christian marriage. Christian marriage. And he's like, well, Christian marriage. And he's like, I don't understand. And she says, you know, my God is Satan.

This is a normal woman that looks like a business woman, right? The world is vested with deceiving. I mean, just think of the comprehension of people doing that. And they don't believe for whatever. reason that they're going to get, they're not going to get what they think they're going to get there, you know, they're going to end up in the worst of all places. I mean, it's crazy stuff. It's unbelievable. I mean, it's, it's really scary, but again, we have to take the power as Christians and realize there is hope, there is an answer. The answer is Jesus. And we've got to go back to Jesus.

We just got to realize and hold on to that, that he doesn't abandon us. He doesn't leave us alone. he's there. But when we renounce him, we're left in the, okay, you're walking in Africa through the Sahara or through the Serengeti. Do you really want to walk in Africa without being in a Jeep or something that protects you with the lions and the hyenas and the snakes and everything else? How far do you think you're going to get through the Serendary get getting? Don't dress in a zebra suit. Yeah, it's a bad idea. What do you guys, you know, I think, I love what you're saying. I love this conversation too because I think sometimes, you know, it's easy as Christians to think, oh, the truth, the truth will be obvious and the lie will be obvious. And it's like, it's always sold as two truths, you know. Kind of reminds me of we're talking movies, that movie of the good son, where he's, the mom at the end of the movie is holding on to her son and then the, I think it was his nephew or something. And she's got to make that choice. Like, which one do I choose? I mean, it's such an epic way to end a movie and a film. That was a dark movie. Speaking of dark movies.

What are your projects you guys working on now? What's the next? I mean, you guys feel like you've had this, like, spiritual return, awakening, resurgence, whatever you want to call it, however you want to say it. But what's the next project? What's the next film? What do you guys want to make now besides the TV show? We have a lot of stuff that we're doing.

The Lord has told us that basically, I mean, when he tells us to go do something, we do. So that's number one. But we're building the company. So we're doing a multitude of projects now. because to change the culture, you can't do one movie every year and a half. So now we're trying to go wide and do 15, 20 TV shows and movies and stuff. So, you know, there's a lot of content we're coming out, some of which is very much like, you know, biblical or Christian. And some of it is secular where we kind of god smuggle.

You just tell the story. You know, it could be a Western. It could be all the – I got one called The Last Patriot, which is, I think, something really cool. It's a TV show. And what it is is 20 minutes into the future, literally, the government decides to come for everybody's guns. And a small Texas town says no. And that causes the second American civil war. So it's the good version.

It's the conservative version of civil war, basically, showing how they're manipulating and how they're doing all these things. You know, that's one of the things we've got. We got comedy. We've got a lot of stuff. But we also started a distribution company. And we also started a streaming platform, a conservative streaming platform called Believe. plus that will be done in a couple of months, two months. And we're really excited about it because I will tell you, it bothers me tremendously that

Disney and Netflix are after the children. They are. And so we feel strongly that we need to have cartoons and places kids can watch stuff where a boy has not tried to be a girl and a girl is not convinced to be a boy and that, you know, that they're not vamped up and they're not made to be agitated sexually. and stuff like that at five years old? Why would you do that? Talk about evil.

Talk about evil. And what does the Bible say? There will come a time when good is considered bad and bad is considered good. And it will be in the open. Well, we're here. We're literally here. When you go after the children,

it wasn't good enough that there were aborting children. Now they're going after the children that actually are alive and they're trying to destroy their lives. These poor kids that they have to go through. And so we want to give a place where a parent, Disney used to be the babysitter. You turn the thing on and you let your kids watch it and you'd get three hours where you could actually relax.

If you had a VHS tapes, if you have enough VHS is, you could just keep plugging them in. You play those things over and over. I came to a Polar Express like 938 times. You know, couldn't get enough of it. And the bottom line is now, you can't, you can't let them watch Disney or Netflix. No, it's all hypersexualized and there's all kinds of, there's all kinds of just progressive agenda.

Evil in it, yeah. Okay, I saw a cartoon, a company by the name of, I forget the name, but they did a cartoon, a demonic cartoon on what was the name, not Jezabelle, a love story between Satan. Oh, yeah, yep, it was on Amazon. Yeah, I know you're talking about. Are you kidding? We are on the verge. And by the way, I would just say this to you guys.

And this is what we feel strongly. The time to make a decision is here. There's no more middle of the road. There's no more lukewarm. You have to choose what side you're on. You are either on God's side or you are on the devil's side. It's obvious now. You are on one side or the other.

And the problem is, if you don't choose, then you're on the devil's side because you're not going to do the things you need to do. You're not going to repent. You're not going to change your life. And I see it in every part. We just left L.A. a year ago permanently. And I will tell you, take a drive around L.A. and you'll know. Yeah.

We're ex-California boys. Yeah. Yeah. You guys now. We're in Tennessee. Oh, that's great. You know, we're opening an office in time. Tennessee.

Well, come on. We live on both either sides of Nashville. That's great. Next project, we'll have to have you guys in the studio. Yeah, come on. Yeah, we have to come in here. We're building the studio on Brentwood. Hey, you know, I got a great idea for you guys.

Put you in a movie, the two of you, and we do it like you're on a search for some. We can do a movie together. Let's go. I totally said, you bring every one of your followers. This would be cool. The blurry creatures comes alive like stranger things. Well, Carrie, this is why it's been an audio show for Sol. long, you know, everybody loves looking at us, but you know, there's an idea there somewhere.

I would tell you like, I don't look that bad. Look at us. Appreciate it. No, that's, that's awesome. You guys, this has been, this has been phenomenal. Yeah, I was going to say, yeah. I was going to say, you know, people who haven't listened, I haven't watched the movie. What do you want to tell them before they watched the movie and where to watch the movie? We made one mistake. And there was the poster, the triple-headed poster, you know, where it looks kind of funky and demonic. We did that for a very specific reason. We wanted young kids to think that this is a horror so they'd come into the theater and then we could show them

the truth it scared the church the church is so weak now right now because of this like lukewarm preaching that you're talking about that they backed away from it and so i would tell you audience this is not a horror where heads are spinning and people are vomiting and you know things are saying right right whatever it's two guys in a room okay it's c s louis This is screw tape letters. The poster was actually painted by the guy who did the poster for the Passion of the Christ. He's a total sold-out believer. I love that.

Pastor Jack Hibbs out in California showed this film to 6,000 people in his church. One of the biggest fans of the film who saw it before release was Dr. Jeremiah Johnston here at Prestonwood Baptist in Dallas. He's actually done a Bible study where he sits down with Steve Dason, a recreation of the set. It's called Know Thy Enemy. talk about the theology of this film. Number one. The great irony of this film.

Number one Bible study in America. And yet, people are still fighting or resisting seeing the movie because they think it's a demonic movie. We didn't do that. There's more scripture and more rifts on scripture in this film than anything we've ever done, including God's Not Dead. That's amazing. That's funny.

It's not what you would think, right? You're talking about a movie about possession and it's got more scripture, which actually honestly makes sense but sort of if you're walking around you're thinking oh god god's not dead's probably full all kinds of bible verses you know um yeah i think the writing is incredible you guys you guys wrote this really well and i think it's really hard movie to write and like i said you know the fact it's just a conversation most of the film i remember walking away it was very powerful very moving i appreciate you guys coming on our show and yeah talking about it and taking us back through it i look uh we're we're honored i we apologize it took forever no

problem it was on us too man we had the comedy of airs right like we had it on our end too it's it's funny because it's like you had all this crazy stuff happening so did we but here we are you made it happen we made it in the same virtual room and we're grateful for your guys's time looking forward to seeing what you guys do in the future too I know that there's really something special happening here obviously with this film and the things you guys have and and excited to share that with our audience and excited to see what you guys you guys do and it's You know, I just want to just affirm, like, you know, as you said, like, believers and Christians need to be doing things in this, in the space of media. Music and radio and podcasts and TV and and film because these are the are such powerful.

They're called mediums, right? Which is really crazy to think about, but they do convey your, you know, message and truth or the opposite, as you'd say, you know, sort of the demonic agenda. and it doesn't behoove us as Christians and the church as a whole to sit on the sidelines and let Hollywood and the rest of folks that don't have a Christocentric worldview, don't have Christ's inner life, don't have the message of the gospel in their stuff to be, you know, communicating their message to kids, adults, all the above, right? It's the whole spectrum. So you guys doing awesome stuff and really grateful we got to spend some time with you all the day.

So thank you for that. And you're fighting the fight too, so just keep doing it. Absolutely. And if you want to keep some of the prayers, that we'd be most appreciated. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, same here. Yeah, so Adi, I pray for Chuck and Kerry and us blurry boys. And, man, we're going to go see the film.

If you haven't seen the film, you haven't seen the film, go see it. It's been out for a year. It's not like six cents where we're going to spoil it for you because you had 20 years to see that film and Bruce Willis was dead. sorry about that but this one we're not going to spoil it for you so go see nefarious and uh and again thanks guys this has been yeah been awesome appreciate it thank you thank you guys all right