Blurry Creatures - EP: 269 Eagle Eyes with Ex F-18 Pilot Ed Rush

Episode Date: September 27, 2024

In this inspiring episode, we sit down with Ed Rush, former F-18 fighter pilot, now a motivational speaker, author, and entrepreneur. Ed takes us on a high-flying journey from his days in the cockpit to his deep dive into the unexplained mysteries of UFOs. But it's not just about what’s out there – it’s about what’s within. Ed shares how his faith in God led him to ask for big things and shift his life’s trajectory. Whether you're interested in UFOs, looking for motivation, or seeking a life change, this episode will challenge you to think bigger and aim higher. COSTA RICA TICKETS! https://www.eventcreate.com/e/costarica2025 You can get our book of Enoch here: https://amzn.to/3xriiUB Support the show! www.blurrycreatures.com/members Socials instagram.com/blurrycreatures facebook.com/blurrycreatures twitter.com/blurrycreatures Music Kyle Monroe: tinytaperoom.com & Parker Mogensen Outro Song: On the Run by TimeCop1983 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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It's one thing if a guy, you know, on his fourth glass of moonshine outside of of some Air Force base in Florida, see something, he goes, oh, you know, that's like a UFO. It's another thing when a Navy pilot with a set of eyes that is highly trained. Like, we spend hours and hours and hours and weeks and weeks training our eyes to do what's called VID, which is visual identification. Like I could tell you the difference between a Meg 29 and F-15 based on the wingspan and the tail and the cones of the engine. You should be able to see things at distance and be able to distinguish the subtle little

differences in those things. So when you have a Navy pilot identifying something, that's significantly different, because you have a set of eyes that's seen everything, man. You've seen everything from Cessna's to airplanes fly out Mach 1.5. And when you're seeing things that do that sort of thing, it really opens up people's eyes. The history of our Earth is so different from what we can imagine.

The Smithsonian, that if they found out about a large skeleton somewhere, was to go get it. I'm going to assume at least my... One person is right. Because if one person's right, it bust the paradigm. It all goes back to the fallen chair. And the problem with the modern day church, they have a very truncated view of the supernatural. This backdrop is just pregnant with all kinds of meaning associated with this Mount Hermann event.

And this guy defects from the kingdom. That's a big deal. Welcome to the podcast, author, speaker, advisor, Ed Rush. Thank you for coming on our podcast. And you know a little bit about us? We have an 80s flare. And you are the Maverick, the Top Gun. And we're going to talk about that today.

But welcome to the podcast. Thanks for coming on our show. We're going to talk about all the blurry stuff in your career. And what are your thoughts on Bigfoot? That's how we kick it off. What do you think about the big guy? Welcome to the show. You want to start with that?

I thought we were going to do like UFOs. That's how we always start. Really? I love it. Everybody, everybody for every theologian, every person that comes on our show has to talk. talk about this first. This is the way you get in. It's like Bigfoot's the doorman here. The Will Ferrell elf version of Bigfoot was by far my favorite version of Bigfoot when he was

stalking across Central Park. But I think my overall answer to this is, you know, we live in this culture right now where we have convinced ourselves that we know everything, right? So if you went back even 200 years, there was this mystery that surrounded, even the world, we hadn't, we hadn't figured out barely anything. And everyone knew we didn't know anything. And now we think We know everything, even though we only know just a little bit more than we did 200 years ago when we don't know anything. And I find that, you know, nature's revelation as to what's available. I mean, like, for example, we know so, so little about what's even in the ocean. We probably know about 5% of even the species in the ocean.

So for someone to say, you know, something doesn't exist, I think there's probably plenty of things that will shock and surprise us over the next 100 to 150 years. So I'm game. That's where we're at. There's a lot of the weird things out there that we don't have a lot of answers and we're looking for those answers. But we talked on the pre-roll, Ed, and we have a mutual friend in Ryan, Ranbethia, who is the host of Exorcist Files. We've had Father Martins on the show along with Ryan and Ryan on his own episode. And he had some really fun things to say about you that I'm excited. I mean, obviously, your record stands for itself, as Nate said, you were graduate from Top Gun, you're the number one instructor in the Marine Corps for dogfighting.

You beat a Russian mig 29. And a dogfight is what Ryan told me to say. But also, in that time, after your post-fighter pilot career, you're five-time. best-selling author, you speak all over the world. But you're also, you're a Christian and a believer. And I think being blurry creatures, we want to start with your, with your pilot days and some UFO stuff, because I know that when we were emailing back and forth, you said you flew over Area 51. And Ryan said to make sure to ask you about some UFO stuff when you were flying. But you can start wherever you want, because I think it, you know, more or less, how you got in, how you got

into, you know, end up wanting to be a flyer and then sort of some of the, some of the crazy things, him in 2000 hour tactical aircraft hours is a long time in the sky and most people see some weird stuff when they're up there for that long that's good man so i'll take you back to the beginning so i was a college student first of all i failed kindergarten you should know that like right on the bat i'm not going to do every part of my history i love that you got to take it you're going to hang that one high you're like not a lot people fail they let everybody go through mostly so you must have been real special it's the easiest uh my daughter just graduated from kindergarten by the with honors.

And I'm at a graduation. They have a graduation for kindergarten, which is unbelievable, right? With the, they have the gowns and caps. And, like, they march forward with that song, like, pomp and circumstance, you know, the marching violin.

And I'm sitting there, I'm like, how dumb did I have to be to fail this grade? I mean, the subject matter, like my daughter's subject matter, there's a class called stories, you know, where basically you have to listen to a story.

There's coloring class. There's blocks. That's what I failed, you know? So I always tell people that, because I'm going to tell people that, I'm going to tell you some fighter pilot stories, but I don't ever want you to think, you know, I'm the second coming of Iceman.

I'm going to tell you a couple stories even about maybe how I killed myself, you know. But yeah, I was in college and on a whim. I never told the story ever. But on a whim, I literally walked up to this guy who was standing in the cafeteria wearing the goofiest uniform I've ever seen. And he was the Marine Corps recruiter. And the guy looked at me and he snapped his fingers like a salesman, you know.

And he goes, hey, do you ever want to fly airplanes? And I'm like, hey, I really do. Have always wanted to fly airplanes. My grandfather took me fly when I was 11, Sess and the double eagle took, let me have the controls take off. And the moment I took off in the airplane when I was 11, I was totally hooked.

And so when the Marine Corps recruiter was like, hey, do you want to fly airplanes? I was like, I definitely do want to do that. Now, that also involved going to boot camp, getting yelled at, you know, there's a lot of right of passage in the Marine Corps to get there. But it turned out, despite failing kindergarten, despite being an average student,

I was pretty good at flying airplanes. Flying airplanes is far less mathematical than you think it is. I mean, there is math flying over the wings. but I always tell people the easiest way to understand how to fly an airplane, especially a fighter aircraft is if you push the stick forward, the houses get bigger. If you pull the stick back, the houses get smaller. And when you push the red button on the stick, all the houses disappear. That's like all you need to know about flying the hornet.

So I was pretty good at that. Ended up becoming an instructor pilot, got selected to go to Top Gun, the real Top Gun, which is nothing like the movie, by the way. Although they do take themselves very seriously up in Fallon, Nevada. ended up as a Marine Corps instructor, number one instructor for dog fighting and saw a bunch of crazy stuff along the way. I was in Iraq twice. I was overseas quite a few times. Lost an engine, literally lost an engine 800 miles from land over the Pacific Ocean.

That was kind of a little bit of a hairy story. Almost lost two airplanes by going out of control. I saw, you know, five or six near midairs, you know, so God just sort of like spared my life in that point. But the interesting thing, you asked about Area 51. So Area 51 sits in the middle of. of the Nevada test range. So it's actually one of the biggest test ranges in the, in the entire country.

And there's this little square, like little tiny square, right in the middle of this massive Nevada test range. By the way, this test range is so big. But if you watch, if you watch the airliners, like when they come out of McCarran or even out of L.A., and you watch the track, they literally have to go completely around this massive range. I'm talking hundreds, hundreds of miles,

which is not very common. Normally they go over or they can fly close. and we were doing this huge exercise. And this is actually when I fought the make, too, but we were doing this huge exercise out of Nellis. We were flying with a test squadron out of Nellis. And we were going back and forth, back and forth across the range over this little square

that everybody said, you're not supposed to even look at. And that is as good as the story gets because on the ground is nothing. There's just like literally military hangers that are everywhere. Why do you think there's no fly zone there? So, okay, so it's interesting. there's like an official sort of answer, then there's sort of like a historical answer, and then there's sort of the speculative answer, right?

So the official answer is, you know, this is the Nevada test range and the airspace is covered because the Air Force secret test range. It's sort of like very sort of a secretive answer. Now, the actual sort of middle, the middle answer, if you will, is, I'll take you back in history.

So for example, in 1991, when we went to war against Iraq, the original Operation Iraqi Freedom that it was a little kicked off against Saddam Hussein. You know, there was the first time there was a televised war for 24 hours on CNN. It was the reason why there's these CNN, honestly, because of that war.

And the CNN started with the Gulf War and ended with Donald Trump. Like you actually see the whole lifespan of that, right, right, before your very eyes. And when that war started, there were these airplanes that no one had ever seen before that literally just showed up.

Like, they're coming into land and CNN is watching this triangular-shaped airplane coming into land. And then all of a sudden, some of the Air Force is like, oh, that's an F-1-17. That's one of our stealth aircraft. I remember this. Dude, I remember this because, like, dude, I'm in elementary school. And, you know, it's a desert storm. I remember getting trading cards and it had the stealth bomber. That was like the big thing.

That was a big deal. All of a sudden, there's a super black angular, weird-looking. And it's not the Blackbird. It's something else. And now they're selling trading cards. You know, you want to get Schwarzkopf and the stealth fighter. I think those are the ones you want to pull from the pack. But it was crazy.

You know, I think about it. We lived through like the really television of war, of warfare, right? Because Vietnam was not like that. I mean, there was actual cameras. So it was much, it was more so than World War II because we have all these World War II docs on Netflix now. We can watch. And those are cool.

I watch all of them. They put me to sleep. Those are my favorite. Like, I want to watch this and fall to sleep. I love World War II. That's not because it's not interesting. It's just, you know, we're two in color for the fifth time. But yeah, it was wall-to-wall coverage.

So I digress, but I was just maybe thinking of those trading cars. I didn't thought about that in, I mean, gosh, 35 years, whatever long it's been. Yeah. Sometimes it feels like when you get that phone bill, it's like the crash site document. You can't read it. There's a bunch of numbers, random fees, vague language, stuff's blacked out. You're like, what am I actually paying for? I don't know about you, but I like keeping my money where I can see it.

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sponsored jobs. It gives your job post the boost it needs to be seen and helps reach people with the right skills, certifications, and more. Spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all your boxes. Listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsor job credit at Indeed.com slash podcast. That's Indeed.com slash podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Need a hiring hero? This is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs. It was crazy. By the way, war changed more. Like, for example, is a digression. But if you look, for example, what's going on in Israel right now, the entire war in the Middle East right now is actually a media war. It is a war to see who can suffer the worst atrocity on national television. In other words, whichever country or group of countries gets international attention for having the worst issue, they're the ones that are going to win. It's literally completely different. And thanks to that 1911. one. So we saw these airplanes and nobody knew they existed. I mean, the Pentagon folks knew the Air Force knew they existed. But a lot of people didn't. It was at the highest level above top

secret. Literally, there's a level above top secret. And all of a sudden, they show up on CNN. So you had a classification of an airplane that no one knew about except for the highest top above top secret and about two afternoons later that some dude on CNN with a helmet, a flag jacket is talking about this airplane. And so, so I told you sort of the official story that I told you sort of like the on the ground practical story, when the Air Force of the Navy of the Marine Corps try and train, try and test new equipment, they try and test new equipment in little spaces like protected little air spaces that no one can see. And back then, nowadays is a little bit different because the satellite technology is unbelievable. You can read someone's watch from space. Back then, you could see shapes of airplanes,

but we were clearly obviously concerned about Russian satellite spy technology being able to see the shape of a new airplane. And I'm not saying that those airplanes started in Air 51. I'm just simply saying that that's what that unofficial, unofficial, right? And then the speculative, by the way, which I certainly don't deny, like we have a government now.

I mean, you know, I think back in the 60s, we started to get an idea in a country, I wasn't born there, but like as a country, we started to get the idea that like the government can't be trusted, you know?

Like it was right around then when we started to be like, I'm not sure we trust what they're saying. I mean, it was like, Up until really like the assassination of JFK and the assassination of Martin Luther King, you had basically Walter Cronkite telling America what was true, you know? And all of a sudden people were like, I don't know. I'm not sure if that's true. And that's when like conspiracy theory started like in the 60s.

And now it's basically like everything is coming true, you know. And so, yeah, the government hasn't really been telling the truth. And it's fascinating because in 2021, the government basically came out and said, yeah, there's UFOs. Here's some evidence. And it was like, it's like, wait a second. going to be back in 91 again. So fascinating time to be alive. Yeah, I mean, that's that's kind of where our show lives. And we'd love to hear some UFO stories or your thoughts on UFOs. Yeah.

Anything you got in that realm, it's kind of where we live. We actually got an old, he's an, he's a ex-military, but he was in, he actually's coming on the show in two weeks. He's going to talk about how he was in a nuclear silo in Montana and UFOs flew over the base and turned off 10 nuclear missiles. And he said, in my career, we never lost, we never had one. go offline and then these things flew overhead and we had 10 go offline. So we're going to get his story, but you know, we, this is what we live for is all the weird, blurry stuff when it comes to military UFOs. And we'd love to hear your thoughts on all that. Yeah. So we'll go, take a little walk through history, at least the last 20 years. And I'll give you some sort of like

personal thoughts and antidotes. But by the way, go back to what I said kind of in the beginning. You know, we live in this culture. We've been trained to think we know everything. Yeah. And yet we actually have never, a single human being has not gone even past the most. Like we're talking about Mars, which is not even that far away, like the outside of our, just our solar system to get to the very end of the org cloud distance to distance. It's two light years, right? And the fastest we've ever gone in any airplane or any aircraft is about 1.20th of the speed of light. So just to get across our own solar system, it would take us 40 years at our fastest rate, you know, to show you how little we know about almost anything. And so the idea that God is constantly unfolding, you know, it's the glory of kings to search out of it.

matter, glory of God to conceal a matter. I think forever, for thousands and thousands, millions of years, we're just going to be continually understanding and searching and understanding more and more what God's created around not only the universe, but the world. I have undeniably believed that there is not only extraterrestrial life, but intelligent life. I don't think there's any way to look at God's creative work and not be able to assume that that's the case. And what's interesting is there's actually quite a bit of evidence. And, you know, it gets very muddled, number one, because the government's not telling the truth about things. And number two, there's a lot of evidence that comes through and frankly

some of it's not very good. And so if you watch an airplane, say three, four miles away and you watch the airplane turning, like potentially doing a bombing run, something like that. When you watch the airplane turn, you can actually see the airplane turn during the day and then you can see it execute its bombing run and then come back off target. Now at night,

your 3D vision at night is near zero. Like your ability to see with eyes, and I'll talk maybe a little bit later on about how fighter pilots are trained to see things certain way. That comes into those videos that you probably saw the of the UFOs. At night, your 3D vision goes completely away. So your brain basically extrapolates and fills them the gaps on what it thinks is being created at distance.

But if you see that same airplane, like for example, if you see airplane rolling, go into the target, come down and then come back off target. During the day, you see the, you see the three dimensions of that turn, of the airplane turning. At night, what you see are lights going down and lights going back up again and lights going down and lights going back up again. And what your brain goes is no airplane can do that, right? So there's probably, I would guess probably 95%, maybe even more of what are traditionally called sightings, are probably military aircraft training. It's no coincidence that a lot of those settings are right near military training ranges. But then there's another four or five percent that just kind of throw out there in that realm.

And you probably saw like the reference I was going to make was in 2004, 2014, 2015, 2015, there were forward-looking infrared shots taken by new, U.S. Navy F-18s of three separate aircraft that were exhibiting characteristics that simply do not exist in our current, like, envelope of avionics or aerodynamics. Like the one in 2004, so it's the one that you've probably seen the Ford looking infrared, but the pilot's actually tracking this aircraft. And all of a sudden it stops and turns like 360 degrees. And the pilot goes, holy shit, like he starts cursing. That just rotated. Like, by the way, the pilot, and he's just talking to his backseater. So he didn't know everybody in the world was going to listen to him.

Mom's like, I can't believe you use that word. But he's like, holy shit. And you actually see this thing rotate. Now, what ended up happening when the Pentagon released this for of back in 2021 was at the same time. The USS Princeton, the destroyer, was also tracking this object that was moving from 80,000 feet down to 20,000. feet and back up again. Now, to understand the data on this, this is not a human set of eyeballs. This is an Aegis destroyer that has a phase array radar. Okay. Phase array is the edge of the tip of the spear when it comes to radar. You can see if it's at 80,000 and 12 feet, literally.

Like so if your eye, your eye looking at an airplane, I don't know, 30,000 feet, 20,000 feet, whatever. As age system looking at an airplane is like 80,230 feet going 437 knots that way. and they're watching this thing go from 80,000 feet to 20,000 feet back to 80,000 feet again, okay? So now you're outside of the envelope of anything that we currently have the ability to do. Like, you can't go from 80 to 20 and back to 80 again, anything that we have. You can go from 80 to 20 and into the water in a lot of things that we have coming out of space. You can go straight up, like some of the things that Elon Musk is moving from 20,000 to 80,000 feet into the sky. But you can't do both of those things.

And so that's kind of a pretty fascinating, like little trip down historical lane. And the crazy thing is in 2021, the Pentagon's like, here's the videos. And yeah, you know, UFOs. It's like right in the middle of COVID. They're like, don't worry about it. Nobody will even mention it. You know, so. Yeah, why do you think that's happening now?

Because, you know, obviously, you know, we've been talking about sort of this whole came on the scene with like Roswell, right? In the 40s, this was all sort of conspiracy theory. We've done several episodes on Roswell. I think he did three or four episodes. We even brought a guy whose dad was a Mormon missionary in Roswell. And this government trapper gave him a piece of the crash and it had markings on it. And they couldn't even put a scratch on this piece of metal.

And he had letters back home, documented. Take that story for what it is. But I think, you know, something crashed in the 40s out there. And that's kind of, from a lot of people say, that's where the Area 51 kind of birthed. And then now, here we are, 80 years later, finally saying, hey, yeah, the UFOs are real. Here's some video. And it's not going to be the best video.

We're going to give you a little bit of grainy video, which is kind of like Bigfoot. You're not going to get the good, good video, but here's some video. It's just trickling it out. We can't do. Just a little bit at a time. I mean, and obviously it's really great to hear as a pilot, too. Because we make this claim all the time. These things are outside of anything.

No human being can survive this kind of motion. And however it's moving isn't like we do it. I mean, the interesting thing, too, and this is really why I think the pilot encounter, it's one thing, it's one thing if a guy, you know, on his, you know, fourth glass of moonshine outside of some, you know, like an Air Force base in Florida, see something. He goes, oh, you know, that's like a UFO. It's another thing when a Navy pilot with a set of eyes that is highly trained. Like we spend hours and hours and hours and weeks and weeks and weeks training our eyes to do what's called VID, which is visual identification.

Like I can tell you the difference between a mig 29 and F-15 based on the wingspan and the tail and the cones of the engine. You should be able to see things at distance and be able to distinguish the subtle little differences in those things. So when you have a Navy pilot identifying something, that's significantly different because you have a set of eyes that's seen everything, man. you've seen everything from Cessna's to airplanes fly at Mach 1.5. And when you're seeing things that do that sort of thing, it really opens up people's eyes, like, really quickly. And so I took particular interest to that. And by the way, when the government came out with that in 2021,

first of all of all of all of a sudden, local news that everybody wanted to talk about it. Come on. And the government was very clever about this, by the way, because they were like, they essentially affirmed the existence of UFOs. But definitionally, it's a catch-22, right? Because UFO stands for unidentified flying object. And so what the government basically said is, we have this flying object that we have not identified.

And therefore, I thought, well, that's kind of like you didn't say from space. Right. And they also shell-gamed it because they did UAP. So they're like, well, it's not, it's an undefed aerial phenomenon now. So don't bring all that stigma and baggage with UFO. It's not a dead. Maybe it is, maybe it's not, but we're going to rename it something else. Yeah, I think it's so interesting.

And then for me, I know you got a bunch of requests, but for me, we were in the space and it was really good timing. You know, we're all good timing for blurry creatures because we've been talking about stuff like this as Christians. How do we, how we meant to think about this? How should we contextualize this? Does this just qualify my faith? It's a big thing. People think like, oh, if they've, if they confirm extraterrestrials, what does that say about my faith? Right.

And so these are conversations we've had and we do continue to have. but it's interesting because it seemed like outside of like maybe Tucker Carlson who was still with Fox News at the time no one really cared to talk about it and you're like this could be the this is the biggest story maybe ever this is a big story since since Jesus Christ by far

in the last two millennia that this is we're saying this is weird and the whistleblowers are are saying and you know I think NASA's official line is that we don't have any evidence of XYZ but you got David Grush among as the main sort of we have a whole yeah we have a whole committee in congress now oversight yeah yeah which are like trying to push it forward and and they're they're running up

against you know they got to go in a skiff or they have they're they can't they can't they have to talk to a private company not and these people are really clever well people are really clever too because these don't these are these are these are black budget these end up in defense contracts you end up in the private sector right and then we this we've kind of covered this ad nauseum but in that way there's you have plausible deniability And so the government officially can say, oh, we don't know. Maybe there is. And here's some videos.

It's an anomalous. Then you have the whistleblowers like Grush. He's sort of the figurehead for that. But there's some other folks that came out and blew the whistle saying, yeah, they've got stuff. And they've got non-human biologics. And they've got, they have things that they've collected. And they're reverse engineering it. And you go, that sounds a lot like Bob Lazar in the 80s.

Yeah. Yeah. Do you have these discussions where guys you've been with have been like, I saw some weird stuff up there or there's people just not? because I'm curious about like internal discussions, you know, between, yeah, between guys that are, it's like, it's like a football team. You guys are based on the team, you know, it's a team sport. And so you're hanging with it. These are boys, are these guys who are flying saying like, man, I had some weird stuff happen up there. Like, you know, I saw some, I don't know. Yeah. So, so, so first of all, what you described as the camaraderie is right on. So you have basically this group of largely male, largely alpha male, very conservative, sort of fiercely independent guys. Most, most dudes on at least own quite a few guns, you know, like that's the kind of crowd that you're in. And by the way, even though we're members at the time, I'm not in the military anymore, but like we were at the time members of the federal, like employees of the federal government, largely distrusting of the federal government.

Like, you're like feds, fans that don't trust the feds. Yeah. Like the rule, you know, like when somebody gets convicted of something, the rule in the country is innocent until proven guilty. I think in general, fighter pilots view the government like more like guilty until proven innocent. Like you have to prove to us, you know, that you're not up to something because you're probably up to something. And yeah, so the interesting thing, like, the best way can describe this is if you're going to be an apprentice, they say if you're going to be apprentice for a,

with a jade artist, the first day an apprentice shows up, they hold on, they get handed a piece of pure 100% pure jade. And they're not allowed to let it out of their hand for a full year. Literally, when they go to the bathroom, when they go to bed, when they go to the shower, they have to hold on to this piece of jade for a full year. And they say that when you hold a piece a pure jade in your hand for a year. You can immediately pick up something that's impure, even if it's 1% impure and the person will know, oh, that's not pure, right? Just because your hands are trained.

And that's basically what happens to a fighter pilot's eyes. You see everything, right? And when you see everything, you get trained with this set of filters to be able to know, like, that, that's that, that's that, what is that? That's completely outside of the realm of what we've seen. And I was in the military, by the way, in 2004. and those four looking infrared tapes were not released by the government. They got released by those pilots or the person, you know, they left the tape in the radio

room and the person took a copy of it or whatever. Literally, the government didn't release that for 16 years later, guilty until proven innocent. But someone released those, like in 2004, I don't remember what we were sharing on at the time. I think dudes were just sending stuff back and forth via email, but I saw that video. Like Napster. Or just, you download it on Napster. We're just like, people were just sending, you know, like forward, forward, forward, forward, forward, forward, forward. like one of those emails that says FWFW.

Remember the? You say get those. Reply all. Uh-oh. Yeah. Yeah. Not another one of these. And someone's like, hey, and you look back on the FW, FW, FW, FW, FW, FW, FW, and it's like VFWFWFW. And it's dudes that we know. And we all watched that video back in 2004. And I will just tell you, we had 18 pilots on our squadron, 18 backseaters, everybody with highly trained eyes, knows what an airplane looks like. We've spent hours with our heads into a forward-looking infrared. And that was a novelist. That was not. That was not. anything that anyone has ever seen ever. And airplanes don't do that. Airplanes don't turn and rotate.

Airplanes don't go from 80,000 feet down to 20,000 feet back to 80,000 feet. Now, I don't know what it was. It just was something that airplanes don't do. But what's interesting is sometimes you'll catch developing technology. You'll catch something that, you know, SpaceX is working on or maybe the government's working on some sort of new drone technology or whatever, because humans can't withstand that, by the way. You can't go from 80 to 20 to 80.

80, you need a pressure suit. And to go from one to the other, it's massive stress on an airframe and a body, literally. It's like, you might as well be on a different planet. And so that definitely got our attention. And I think by large, like 36 dudes were like, dude, there's something crazy that's happening out there. I wish I had seen something like that. I didn't see anything like that. I just saw a bunch of like 737s crossing the range.

But I like your attitude, though, Ed, because I think that a lot of Christians work, they don't start way out and then work back. They start really small and then try to like slowly work forward. they go, well, everything I don't understand is a demon. And there is no actual physical craft. And there are no aliens. And there are none of these things. So I'm going to work. I'm going to slowly absorb the data.

Okay. And then one crashes in their backyard and their whole, their whole worldview and their whole faith falls apart. Because it's like, well, now I'm looking at it. And so. Or we have House Oversight, right? No, we have David Grush. And then you have to go automatically to, oh, he's lying.

Or this is government is lying. Everyone's lying. This is all deception. You go, ah, that's tough. Not everything is a lie. This is what we're into in our space is a lot. NASA is 100% lying all the time. And you're like...

And they very well do lie. But it doesn't... Or project grouping. Everything is like lasers and it's all... But see, even reversed engineered government craft can't fly like that, right? There can't be somebody inside that craft. It's impossible. Like a human being.

Human being can't do that, period. You don't have the bodily capacity to pull that off. You can withstand 18, 20, 30 Gs instantaneously and maybe sustain 10 to 11 Gs. But when I say sustain, I mean, three, four, five seconds before you completely pass out. But the human body just doesn't just doesn't do that. It's interesting you mentioned the theology part because, you know, I think about this all the time because the wonders, the wonders of God's creation are just unbelievable. Like I study, I love space. I read all the science fiction books and I study, I study space.

look at James Webb pictures all the time, literally all the time, just to see the majestic wonder of God's universe. And there's something theological, and I'll just, I'll just put it, there is an emotionally immature approach to theology that just wants everything to be like, and it's such a neat, tidy little box. Like, if I could just understand salvation here, and if I could just understand heaven here, like, if you just give me the bullet points, like the three things that I need to know about that. And God has this wonderful way of just blowing boxes up. Like, you know, and if you look throughout history, like when Copernicus is like,

hey, the sun is actually the center, you know, the entire religious elite could not stand the fact that their little box that they created, by the way, this is not a biblical box. They created a little box, and their little box is about to get shattered. And so they blamed this other man for bursting their box, and they blamed him with heresy, you know, and we're doing the same thing now. And when you understand, like, again, I love the universe. Like the universe supposedly is 13.8 billion light years old.

Supposedly it's 70 billion light years across, which there does come a point where the brain can't even understand how big something is. You get about out of the solar system. Like our own galaxy is supposedly, supposedly has something like 200 billion stars. Like unbelievable when you start to think about the numbers that are in there. And when you're met with that immensity, you have the exact same reaction that David had. in Psalm 8 when he says, when I consider the moon and the stars, what you've created, what is man that you're mindful of him? David's like, we're so, so small, we're so tiny. And the next sentence is fascinating because he goes, and yet you made him a little lower than God, which is the right translation

that verse. The Hebrew word is Elohim. That's a very first word in the Old Testament speaking about God. He said, David said, you made him a little lower than God. And the majesty of God is unbelievable. Like, you find yourself so small. Like, I am so small and I know so little. And yet he's given man such dignity. And it's amazing to think of what he's been able to give us in this space. And that's, by the way, my belief on creation, my belief on extraterrestrial life. It comes down to a simple logic train, which is this. I've never met an author who wrote a successful book and then just said, that's it. I'm never writing again. You want to write another book after you write your first book. I've never met an artist who created a beautiful painting that just was like, I'm good. One painting's

good for me. I've never, never met anyone who's like a, you know, like a famous chef who creates this wonderful dish and goes, I'm never cooking again. A creative people create. That's part of our nature, right? And it's part of our nature because it's part of God's nature. God is an infinitely creative. And because he's infinitely creative, he created us to be infinitely creative. And so the idea that God's like, we're just going to make this one species and that I'm done forever is kind of crazy because we would never do that. And we're made in his image, right? And so there's no question, by the way, in my mind. There are probably billions upon billions upon billions upon billions of intelligent, sentient life forms

across the universe and the multiverse. Have they noticed us? Probably. Have they been here? Probably. The best, by the way, the best explanation for this, have you ever read CS-Luisa Space Trilogy of the Paralandra out of the silent planet? A lot of people talk about it.

I'll do this quick. I want to spoil anything. But basically, there's three books. The first book is about Mars. This traveler goes to Mars meets the creatures that are on Mars. Then the second book, he travels to Venus. So Mars has already developed. Venus is a brand new planet.

There's two people. And he watches, the author watches the two people become tempted by the ruling demonic deity or whatever. And so that's Venus, very young planet. And then there's this whole book called The Silent Out of the Silent Planet. And the Silent Planet is Earth. And C.S. Lewis, in his writing, he says, you know, none of the extraterrestrial spirits or beings wanted to come to the silent planet because it had fallen. And I was like, I wonder. I wonder if there's these billions and billions of sentient species, some of them that have developed enough intelligence to travel who have literally seen Earth and gone, oh, this is the planet that rebelled against Yahweh, Creator, and we're just going to kind of watch at a distance.

That's, I'm not telling you that's my theory. That's just one of the ideas that I have because it makes sense to me. We've got to have a humility, and I think that's a big part. It's tons of humility to say, you know, we're not the center of this story. We're in the middle of something else going on, a war in heaven. our place is, I think we're protected here. But what Luke and I hear a lot on our show is that, like, there is physical evidence and there's nefarious actions happening. The UFO phenomena isn't just buzzing around the sky. People are being abducted. And certain families are being abducted. And they're doing, like, pregnancies go missing and all kinds of weird stuff that people will come on a show and say. And it's like, okay, and then you have this whole group of Christians who don't even want to acknowledge UFO existence because they read a couple of things. Bible verses and they think that they know exactly like the physics of our world and what is allowed to exist and what isn't. So when the data comes across, they can't accept the data because it's

like, well, I've limited my view of all these topics based on just a small view of things and anything that gets outside of the data. I have to go, it's demonic. It's a deception. Those guys are lying. You know, Congress is lying. You know, military is lying. NASA lies. Blurry creatures lies, you know, because I can't accept this person's testimony. It's like, well, either they're lying or they're telling you the truth. Are millions of people being abducted? And according to guys like John Mack say, yeah, around the world, that many people are getting taken. And what are they doing to these people?

And so it's just great to kind of hear your perspective because I think Luke and I run up against. We're trying to kind of help Christians prepare for if this stuff does land on the White House lawn. people get out and say, hello, we're here, and Christians don't just completely, their faith falls apart in minutes because they had so many of these very, very black and white voices in their heads that says, no, this stuff doesn't exist. It's all demonic. And it's like, well, here's a craft. You know, we don't read about demons building things in the Old Testament or the New Testament. And these beings are telling you something. So what do you do with that? No, it's great. This is fun. I like the discussion aspect of it, too. And I'll just say a word in defense of experimentation and wonder. You mentioned Psalm 82. So I did a whole thing at one of my events on Psalm 82 because part of what I do is just show people like who you are, like who you are. If you had any idea, honestly, if you had any idea, honestly, if you had any idea, honestly, if you had any idea, the elegance and the grandeur and the royalty with which God views you, you know, you would be blown away. And Psalm 82 says, you know, God sits among the council of the gods. And it's the same word. Elohim sits in the, Elohim sits in the council of Elohim, singular, plural. And it makes theologians brain's burst. And I'm like, it makes sense to me because Jesus says, didn't you know that they called you gods? He said it. Even quoted that verse when he was talking to

this. And most people would really have a hard time with the idea of like, oh, we're gods. But you wouldn't have an idea of like calling some of the Lord of the Manor. That's what he was saying. in charge of things. And we have this thing. It's such a bummer. The church is basically, historically, anywhere from 40 years to 200 years behind. It's not like, it's not like what's right or wrong. It's like they just needed to be around long enough so that they can embrace it. They did the same thing with the internet, social media, the same thing with AI. Like, I'm like, let's get ahead of this, dude. Let's like own this thing. Instead of being, I just had, you know, somebody recently wanted me to invest in their Christian, he said, it's the Christian Facebook.

I said, dude, the train left the station on that like 20 years. ago. Could you create, could you do something next? Not like, I don't want to invest in something that you should have invented back in like 1995. I want you to do, you know, and so I encourage people, like I have these big events that people come to, mainly to hear the voice of God. And so supernatural things happen. There are people that get healed. Sometimes they get healed because we pray for them. Sometimes they literally get like in the middle of an exercise in a conversation with God, God brings them back to a memory, heals that memory, and their lupus goes away like that. And I'm just telling you, like, there's crazy stuff that happens.

And I, 15 years ago, I was a person that you would call a cessationist. I didn't believe in any of the gifts and spirit. I believe in any of that stuff happening. I was the little box guy in my emotional spiritual immaturity, right? And then God blew that box open and started talking to me. And next thing you know, at these events where I'm teaching people how to hear the voice of God. And miracles, like literal actual miracle. I've seen more than I have fingers and toes to count.

right? And that happened for me because of, number one, because of the idea of wonder, when I understood that God was way bigger than I thought he was, and that my being something in this world was not a threat to God, you know? So like, if I have one follower, well, God has an infinity followers. So the different distance between me and God is infinity. If I have a billion followers, well, the difference between me and infinity is still infinity. Like, I have no threat to got, you know? And so what I understood was, if it pleased him to exalt me so that I could exalt him, that I was happy to go as far as I wanted to. And it was when I started to like grab a hold of wonder and understand, like you mentioned the size of the universe and it accelerated

expansion. This is one of my favorite topics because scientists literally have no idea how the universe is still accelerating. They literally have not a single clue. They've made up dark matter, which no one has seen, no one's experimented, no one's touched. Literally, it's, it's a an idea. It's like it has to be dark. It's like there's got to be something here. Yeah. It has to be something in there.

And I was just like when I started looking into this, I'm like, or it could be pulled from the outside. Like, wouldn't even know what's pulling that bubble like past that, you know? It could be like, so. So anyway, but the idea of like opening your mind up to wonder and to journey with God and to experiment. And I tell people this all the time because because experimentation is at the heart of the Christian journey, period.

and we have for some reason our modern church has shut that down to an extent that like you guys said, everything that's not inside this little box is demonic, right? And when I say the modern church, I'm not talking about all churches. I'm not saying, in general,

the box is here and anything outside of that is demonic. So I have one of my very close friends, ladies in her 70s, she has a gift where she can literally touch someone's feet and tell them what's wrong with their body and then begin to heal

the liver issue or the colon issue. or whatever. And I was like, Jane, what was it like growing up in the church in the 80s? Like, did they think you were like, if she floats, remember the Wadi Python sketch? If she floats, she's a witch, you know? Duck, then she's made of wood. And they're going to burn her, burn her. Then she's made of wood.

It's literally the sketch. I started seeing her gift, which is a gift from the Holy Spirit, by the way. When I started to see her gift, I was, I literally thought of that sketch. I'm like, and she floats. No, it's true. It's true. It's like the more humility you have, the more you can be expand,

and the more rigid, the more tight, the more you know, the more fences you have to create, the more rigid. And ultimately something's going to blow through those fences. And then people are going to point the finger at you and say, hey,

you told me all this stuff was, and then you see these empires of these pastors or these mega churches fall overnight because they were so rigid and so tight and who's, like, was that all about them? Was that all about the truth?

And I think that, like on our show, It's just have an open mind. Here's someone's story. And like we say all the time, someone's telling the truth. And it expands your paradigm in the interview. If this person says, this is my experience, I went on a craft, I was being experimented on. And then in my mind, I'm just like, BS, you're lying.

You're totally making this up. And then what do I do to myself? I can't learn anything. And we can't grow and we can't get anywhere with the show. And people who actually have these experiences will text us and email us. say thank you for talking about it because this is my experience and I haven't told anybody yet, but you guys are on the track and you're helping me make sense of my own story. This has been happening to me in my whole life and it's like, whoa.

And just to having an open mind talking about it gives people a place to feel like, oh, I can share. This isn't something that isn't happening to me. This is happening to me and it's real and it's physical. Like this week, we just put out an episode where this woman was talking about being assaulted in dreams. and she would come back after she wake up and she has physical, she's been taken into another dimension almost, assaulted and then brought back here.

She has real physical problems in this dimension, real injuries, real unexplainable trauma. And doctors are like, who's going to listen to those people? So back to the box, right? The box that I meant that I'm talking about this sort of like rigid theological thing. First of all, is a very clever way to control people. If you understand, like, if you ever read about the history of cults, cults almost always grow up around this rigid idea, some kind of very strange, rigid idea.

Like when David Crash in Waco, I thought, you know, how clever of him, he's like, sex is really a bad thing. No one should have it, except for me with everyone. And I was like, how did you even get them to buy into that? Like, didn't they see right through that, you know? But there's safety, by the way, there's safety in that little bubble too. And so, like, I have four kids, 19, 17. 16, and five, I always tell people, and I do know what causes that.

And so, like, how I deal with my 19 year old and my 5-year-old are very different. My 5-year-old lives in a very structured world. She feels like she has a lot of freedom, but she only has really the freedom that I've given her in this and my mom. Like, she can read any of the books on her shelf, but basically she has only the choice of the books. My 19-year-old is driving. It's a much more dangerous place.

She's a girl. There's some, you know, like the whole thing with guys and everything. Like, it is a far more dangerous world that she's in. but she's a lot more free, and she's also a lot more free to experiment, different jobs, with different friendships, and that's what growing into maturity is all about, right? And so I always tell people who are believers, like, you're free to experiment. The only two things that I tell people are very simple. I said, you're free to experiment.

I mean, I teach people how to talk to God. And I said, when you do that, you're going to close your eyes and you're going to, sometimes God will take you on a journey. Honestly, sometimes you will go in places you've never believed you would ever go, and God will take you there. And I said, you are free to experiment. There's no rules on experimentation except for this. I always tell people, number one, just make sure you're walking with God, right?

So like, as long as you're leaning on him, you're not, honestly, you're not in danger of demonic possession or anything like that as long as you're leaning on God. The other thing I tell people is just have some people around you, you can balance your experiences and your ideas off of. There have been some crazy people that went off the rails because they went to disappeared for a year or whatever, like with God. But as long as you have a friend group, like I'll bounce. That's my thing. I'm talking to friends and be like, you know, yesterday I was like, all of a sudden I was praying.

The next thing you know, I was like walking with God in heaven. And here's what I saw. Like if you're sharing that and you've got a group of peers that are like, dude, that's awesome. Go for that. Or hey, man, like, maybe you should, as long as you have those guardrails. And I always tell people, lean on God and have a peer group or just one or two people at least that you can like balance your experiences and your ideas off of. You will be safe. And we need to get back to the space where like the church pioneered everything, dude. we colonized the world. We created all this amazing, you know, technology and everything. And then we got to this really place where we're like going to just kind of sit on our laurels.

And it got very safe. And it got very immature because it got safe because we were sitting inside this box. And it's time for the church to like start experimenting again, man, start creating new things. I literally, one of my buddies is the best physicist I know, period. Dude gets paid a lot of money to create these crazy inventions for all these big companies around the world. And I told him just recently, I was like, man, you and I need to figure out faster the light because we're going to do it. like eventually we're going to do it. You know, like, there's no limit.

I know, I know Einstein said there's not. It's the way around it. And I'm like, do we need to find a solution to this? Because when we do, we're stuck. Like, there's no way for us to even get out to like Saturday at the moment without it taking a really long time. I'm like, let's go, man. Adjama is only four light years away.

Let's go, you know? Apparently that technology exists, as so many people who have said on our show. And that's the, that is the same technology that these UFOs employ. You know, they are, they're moving all. through time bending gravity waves and being pulled along instead of pushing themselves along. And there's this whole veil between us and what exists. And I just think that your mindset, you know, while some Christians listen to that are afraid, they go, well, does that mean I can do anything I want to do?

And it's okay. I can't go outside the fences because something might happen. I might do ayahuasca. And then suddenly I'm not a Christian anymore. And it's like, you know, they're, they're so afraid. I'm not saying go do ayahuasca. I'm just saying, that's what they think you're saying. They think, just go do whatever you want.

But like if you take that example, by the way, I've had a lot of people that I know that have gone and done that. I haven't personally. I have no desire to, by the way. I've seen stuff, I've seen stuff walking with God in heavenly realms that, like, exceeds any experience that anyone has ever told me from ayahuasca. And I did it sitting in my chair in the middle of the afternoon. But, like, use that. Okay. So if you're leaning on God, you're going to ask him about that.

And then you're going to go to your friend group and be like, hey, I want to go to Mexico and do an ayahuasca. And your friends are like, I don't know, man, can we pray about that together? Like, can we talk about that together? That's what I mean about the guardrails, you know? The sort of wild adventurer type. But like, even so, again, your desire, like as a believer to like delve into things and to search things out and to search things out is a scriptural desire. You know, it was, it's, it's right of proverb.

It says the glory of God to conceal a matter. And it's the glory of God to search out a matter. That's the history of science. And when the Queen of Sheba came and showed up at Solomon, the reason that she was so blown away was not only because of the way his court ran, but because of his knowledge. And he would explain things to her scientifically, which by the way, we probably would take it take for granted for now at this point, you know, like why water freezes and why water vapor, like some simple things. But he was explaining to anything scientifically to her that no one knew about. And she was blown away that a king could understand that much. And a king understood that much because he was leaning on God.

Like that was a man who was walking, at least for a period of his life, walking side by side with God because he learned from his father how to walk side by side with God. So I'm in favor of, I'm in favor of Christian experimentation. And I will say very definitively, yeah, you can make a lot of mistakes. Yes, you definitely can. And by the way, you can make a lot of mistakes sitting in that box over here too. You know what happens in that little box? You get judgy. You get judgy and you get angry, you know, and you start blaming everybody else for everything.

And, you know, you're angry at the other churches and you're angry at the government. you're angry at that person for like, you know, and then you become a horrible representation of a Christian. I just say, like, people like that. I'm like, just don't tell people. Tell them you're some other sect or something like that. Tell me you're like, you know what I mean? Tell them you're an occult.

Don't say you're a believer. Like, don't ruin it for the rest of it because all the rest of us are having fun. Ed, just to like to kind of predicate this conversation. So post-military career, you're now in business consulting and you speak and you're right and you help people involve God in their endeavors in their endeavors in the marketplace, right? And through that, and that's what you've been speaking about, just so people understand. I don't know if we covered that in the very beginning, but I want to make sure people

are like, oh, okay, he's kind of talking about something else now. Post-posts, you know, post-military career, this is what you do now. And I wanted to ask you just for like just a couple stories, because you kind of mentioned a few things about, like, you know, seeing healings and how you were cessationist, and now you believe that God does miracles. We did a whole show with Dr. Craig Keener from Asprey Seminary, and he's written the most voluminous volumes. on documenting modern day miracles that happened now, yesterday, last year, the last 20 years,

100 years ago, since, you know, since the time of Christ. Then he has volumes about the miracles in the New Testament, et cetera. But the whole idea is that God never stop working, is still intervening, still supernaturally you're doing things in people's lives speaking. And so I know that that's some of what your space is. And so just, we love just a couple, a couple stories of this chapter of your life, which is the current chapter. My favorite stories to tell, man, let's do it.

I don't even know which ones to pick up. Think about it. I would just say, it's like picking your favorite kid. I know. You have a five-year-old, 19-year-old. This is tough. Although I have a favorite one. I mean, that's hard.

Don't tell anyone. So, yeah, no, so my personal journey, like the 45 seconds of it, I came out of the military. I started writing and speaking and teaching in the business space. I was a very sort of very strategic, very tactical business speaker. I taught about productivity and marketing and branding and like growing your business. I grew some successful business and sold them. All the while I was walking with God as a believer. I was, however, a very sort of in the box cessationist.

I didn't believe that God spoke. I didn't believe that God did any kind of miracles. And then I started having a conversation with God. And I was a little bit kind of surprised because I thought he was going to be angry and he was really nice. and I sat down with my pastor and I was like, I'm having these conversations with like, I was sitting at Starbucks, you know, when the coffee cups too hot to even touch. And I was like, I just had to tell you like, I was almost like I was confessing some sin or something. I said, I have to talk to you. I'm having these conversations with God. You know, like, like horrible, worst possible thing you could do. And he's like, oh, he's like, oh, I wouldn't do that. I wouldn't do that. He goes, that can get really hokey. And I always tell people, he was definitely right about the hokey part. The other part, like sometimes God will play with you in a really fun way, like you do with your kids, you know? And so I started asking God, I started developing this practice of asking God questions about everything in my life. And I would ask about business and money and my family and scheduling and everything.

And he was giving me all this like what I would call military intelligence. And I was downloading, if you're watching on video, there's all these journals behind me and my studio. And I was literally downloading these ideas and writing them all into my journals. and it was changing my business, and it was changing my life, and, like, really good things were happening, and I was learning a lot about how to have a conversation with God. And I wasn't telling anyone about it.

In fact, I didn't barely even tell my family about it because it was kind of a little hokey, honestly, but it was really good. And then I had this man come to me, and if you're familiar with this phrase, the best way to describe this guy was he was a prophet, or he was a prophetic person. And South African dude, very serious.

look in his face. And he goes, he goes, I have a word from the Lord for you. And I said, well, let me hear it. Let me hear it. And he said, he points his finger at me. And he goes, cursed is the one who withholds grain. And he hits me with that first. And I was like, dude, like my heart dropped through my chest. I'd never heard anyone say cursed to me. And he's pointing at me. And I'm like, I thought the whole world was going to open. I was going to fall into hell or something. And I honestly, I thought I must not be giving enough money away or I must be charging too much. And then he said, you have a method for asking God about the areas of your life and you've never told anyone. And I was like, oh, oh, like I thought I was in real trouble. And I said, dude,

I didn't say, dude, his name was Melvin. I said, Mel, I said, I don't think you understand because the business stuff I teach is hardcore stuff. I don't, I told him, I said, I don't teach fluffy stuff. I don't teach like mindset. Any of that fluffy stuff. I called it fluffy. I said, I'll teach that stuff. I teach hardcore, hardcore stuff. And wouldn't you know it, man, next event, I said, I can't take this cursed withhold grain thing. So I did an optional session. I had 150 people at this event. I said, I'm going to do an optional session on day three. And if you want to show up, I'm going to teach you how to ask God questions for your business. Now, keep in mind, at my events, there were, there were some Christians, but there were also

like Hindus and Buddhists and Muslims and skeptics and a lot of new agey people and a lot of, like, I don't really know what I believe, you know. And so I said, if you want to come, it's in this breakout room tomorrow morning. So 150 people at this event, 149 people showed up at this optional session. Like everybody showed up. And honestly, guys, at this point in my life, I thought I was under the impression that God only spoke to his people. Like I was told God only speaks to his people. And I thought that was good theology, which it wasn't.

And I'm looking at 149 people. And I'm like, dang, I'm going to teach them how to ask, talk to God. But God's only going to talk to like 20 of them because apparently he only talks to, I can you not, I started the music. I told them, told them to do the action. I told them what to do. I started the music. And there's 149 people with yellow pads of paper like this,

flip on the page, taking another page of notes. And then people start weeping. And we're passing around like tissues and people are crying and God's bringing people back into these experiences. And after the day was over, I had a woman walk up to me with a yellow pad of paper just like this. And she said, Ed, I'm an atheist.

And I have two pages of notes from God. How does that work? And I was like, you got to tell me how that works, sister. Because like, I don't, I cannot answer that theology question. You know, and that woman, by the way, I read about that woman in chapter five of my book. That woman came to have a radical transformed relationship with God. That woman was in her 60s at the time when I met her. When she was five to age 17, she was sexually abused by her dad.

She never told anyone for 40 years until she walked into that breakfast room. and God breaks open this moment for her, comes and speaks to her and tells her she's beautiful and that he loves her. And it changes her life forever. Like, it changes her life forever. And just unbelievable what God can do when he connects with someone. And she didn't want to talk to God. She didn't believe in God because why would you believe in a heavenly father if your earthly father was such a jerk? But she came to my thing because she was curious, which I love, the fact that she was curious, she had a little wonder.

And the second thing is she said, I showed up today because I was going to talk to my subconscious because I knew. God didn't exist until I did the exercise, right? And I would tell people like, I studied apologetics. I understand how to defend the faith. I know how to defend scripture. I don't do any of that anymore. Honestly, I don't do a single. People go, people say, if God's so good, why does he allow evil to exist?

And I go, why don't we just sit down and let's have a conversation with them about that? I want you to ask God, what lies you believe about you. And they'll ask, and next thing, God, phone will show up. He'll bring them back into some core memory. He'll heal the memory. He'll tell them what's true and the person's life will be changed. and the moment they start talking to God, the next question they ask isn't some like, you know, is the earth 6,000 years old or 13 billion years old? The next question they ask when they have

an encounter with God is, what do I do now? Like, what do I do now? There's no, there's no like fighting anymore. There's just like an openness to that. And so what happened was I started drawing all these people to my events that were business events, but they were coming from all walks of life. And God was bringing people truly who wouldn't go to church because they had been heard by the church or their friends have been hurt by the church or they just didn't want to go to church for whatever reason. But they showed up at a business event

because they wanted to learn to be a better speaker or they want to learn how to make money as a consultant or they grow their brand or do ads on Facebook or whatever it was that we were teaching at that particular event and they would all show up and they would have these massive encounters with God.

And literally I was doing this for years and years and years and like tens of thousands of people were having these moments. And what was happening, I mentioned some of the healing stuff. What was happening is people would show up with physical conditions and sometimes the healing would happen slowly or overtime when their minds changed, but sometimes it would happen right away.

I had this guy who walked up to me at one of my events. There's about 400 people at this event. If you ever spoke an event like you guys have, I'm sure, like, you know, there's like this stage and there's the stairs up to the stage, you know, and I've got my headphone on. I've got like my mic pack ready to go. The dude on stage is like finishing the announcements and he's going to introduce me. When this guy stands next, it's standing right next to me, this huge dude from Chicago, who's name is Barry, Barry from Chicago.

And Barry from Chicago standing next to me. And he goes, he goes, hey, Ed, I heard you talking about God yesterday. I have this back problem. And he starts describing his back problem. And he's like, he's like, would you pray for me in my back problem? And I'm like, Barry, look, I got like 30 seconds to get up on stage. I said, I'm going to pray for you real quick. Okay, just pray for your back problem.

And I literally, I put my hand on this dude's shoulders, massive guy. And I said, like I said, you know, if you have ever, wanted to know how to like pray for people's healing. There's no magical formula to it. Because I was like, I was like, I was like, I literally was like, God, we just pray your blessing on Barry's back. We pray perfect healing in Jesus name, amen. But I'm all, please welcome to the stage. And rush, ah, you know, and I get up on stage. So that was it. There wasn't any sort of like, how does it feel one to 10? You know, like, nothing wrong with that. I'm just saying like it was very quick. Get up out of that way. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. So here, touch a handkerchief.

So nothing wrong with any of that. I'm just saying, like, I didn't do that. So don't, don't send me letters. So, so the next day, next day, I'm standing there getting ready on stage again. Barry's standing next to me. And I was like, hey, what's up, man? He goes, he goes, all right, all the back pain's gone away and all my neck pain has gone away. And honestly, it's kind of weird.

That's what he gets. It's honestly, it's kind of weird. This whole testimony, it's kind of weird. Two weeks later, okay, two weeks later, I'm doing this small little training here in San Diego in my little studio. We have 25 people there. So not 400, 25 people sitting there. And we're doing introductions.

Each person's introducing themselves. And Barry's over here. He's like going to be 23rd on the intros. And he starts waving his hand. I got an intro, I got to say something. And he's like, whenever this guy, he's what he goes. He goes, whatever Ed says, you do it. Okay, whatever he says, you do it.

And even then he goes and tells the story of how his back gets healed, right? So on the break, 25 people, one of this, one woman, one of the attendees walks up to me. And she goes, she goes, I have the exact same thing that Barry had. I have had a back problem and a neck problem for the last 20 years. I've tried everything, acupuncture and doctors and everything, and nothing has ever been able to affect it. she goes, would you pray for me like you prayed for Barry? And I said, no. I said, I will not pray for you, but Barry will. And I'm like, Barry, come here, come here, come here, come here. Now, keep in mind, this is Barry from Chicago who's probably prayed like once when he was like 12 at the Christmas play.

And I say, Barry, come here. Come here. I asked you to do something. I said, I want you to put your hand on her back shoulder. And I want you to pray for her back to get healed. And he's like, he's like, I don't pray. And I said, well, you're going to pray today. And he's like, what do I ask for? And I said, look, you're just, going to ask God to do whatever you want God to do. Okay, so just ask. Okay. So Barry puts his hand on her shoulder. He goes, Gad, we pray that Berbic is back would get bitter. Amen. That's the whole prayer. Her back literally instantaneously. Most of the healings I see don't happen that fast. Literally instantaneously, her back gets healed. And I thought that was fun because we got a two for one

special on backs and necks that particularly. So, so by the way, this is from a guy who didn't believe 15 years ago that God healed. But I'm just saying, like, if you're willing, to experiment. And I'll tell you, I've got stories where I pray for people and that didn't get healed. You know what I'm saying? Like, you're hearing like my greatest hits at the moment. Like, and so I was tell people like, there's times when it didn't work out. But I was at least willing enough to experiment and like to persist at it. And you'd be surprised, man. And the other thing, I know you asked me for two, I want to do like another quick 30 seconds and I'll pitch it back to you. The thing that's blown me away the most, especially with this message that I'm teaching about like how to

God talks book. We go deep into neurology. Talk about how the brain works, how you recode and retrain your mind. The fascinating thing for me hasn't been to see the people who we prayed for and got healed. That was a wonder, right? That's a miracle, unbelievable that God would come down and touch in that way. The thing that fascinates me the most are the healing, the supernatural and healings that happen when no one's getting prayed for, when literally they sit down and have a conversation with God and they rewire their neurology, and the moment their neurology rewires their body follows suit. That's the stuff that really begins to blow me away. And it just goes to show like the dignity and the wonder that God's given to the human, human volition, the ability to change yourself and your circumstances is extraordinary. And I think we're just barely scratching like the top of the surface of that right now. Yeah, I love that. Because I feel like dynamic neurological retraining is like a huge thing because people are having these ailments where they're going. Like you said, 25 years and then nothing works and their whole body's in the stage of fight or flight. And then they come out of it.

I just think that's such a good work, because I think that, you know, all those things is kind of why we started this podcast, is trying to, like, I don't know, you tell me, you tell me your experience, you tell me what you've seen, you tell me the weird stuff, because I think a lot of times we lose our faith when we tighten down the hatches, and it's slowly, like, no oxygen gets to it, and it just burns out. And I think that this show has been so saving for me because I'm like, man, this story is crazier than I thought. like Jesus is saving us from so much more than I realized and and he is the pinnacle he's the linchpin of all this this is you know this is his creation and I think that I think uh I just like your attitude I like your I like that you're taking notes as well and like writing writing stuff down you're not not only are you just telling people but you're actually like trying to learn and I think that's what the point of the podcast was we just want to learn we want to know what do what have you what have you seen what have you heard what you felt and and most of the time it's Christians who are the

nastiest to us. It's, dude. Send us the worst messages. Crazy, dude. That's what I was going to ask you. That's what a question I was going to fall up and ask is like, you know,

you're operating in the space where you're talking to people about God speaking to them, which is really an elementary facet of our faith. Like you got to open the Bible, but we would be remiss if we didn't say that like there, a ton of people will have a ton of problems with, with this idea, right? Even though this happens throughout the scriptures, throughout the heroes of the faith,

people have hear from God. And then I love what you said about not being, you know, not necessarily having to being a Christian. We had an interview with a guy named Tom Doyle, which we haven't released yet, who it was a missionary to the Middle East for 20 years. And he has volumes of stories written down about God,

Jesus showing up to Muslims in their dreams and speaking to them and telling them like, it's me, I love you. It's me and follow me. And these people get radically saved. And you go, okay. I don't know. I just, I know what's,

I know inherently that probably the most, the most pushback you get on any of this is from the church and from Christians because it's, it makes people uncomfortable because we talked about this whole box thing, right? But like, what does it like to kind of operate in this space? Because something that seems so simple in having a relationship. We all talk about, ask, you know, ask Jesus into your heart, right? If you're an evangelical or, you know,

Your salvation is you have a personal relationship with Jesus. And yet a vast, I would say probably a vast majority of church and Christians would probably find the idea of God speaking to them or having a conversation with God as something that would make them uncomfortable. So, first of all, you hit the nail on the head. It's crazy. Like, when I first wrote this book and started speaking on this stuff, I kind of was into the impression that it would be like the Richard Dawkins' atheist crowd that would hate me the most. they seem to be very interested generally, atheists when they show up. Like, it's really interesting.

Like, at least they're willing to experiment. It is almost always the hardcore sort of like really conservative Christian folks that are like, well, God doesn't do that. And by the way, I came out of that space. So like I was one of them 15 years ago. So I would just say with full disclosure, I have a great deal of love and compassion in my heart for someone in those camps. They can be very judgy.

They can be very angry. They can be very sure of like what Robbins 13 says their tongues will cease. And I'm like, I know it says that, but, you know, by the way, side point on the cessationist thing. It's 1 Corinthians 13, by the way. But 1 Corinthians 12 is about the gifts of the spirit. 1 Corinthians 14 is about the gifts of the spirit. 1 Corinthians 13 is about love in the context of the gifts of the spirit. And there's this little extraneous verse in 1st Corinthians 13 that says where there are tongues there will cease through where there's prophecy, they'll cease.

And that's the verse that people who come at me used to explain why Jesus stopped or why the gifts. stop in 80, 70. And I'm like, that is a way extraneous proof text for your argument against my, like, you know. So, but yeah, it's always that group of Christians. And I'll just say a couple things about that. First of all, thank God. So God gave me this wonderful gift a few years ago. It is probably one of my most precious gifts, probably short of just my family and my faith, which is the gift of immunity to criticism. It's a wonderful thing, man, because I used to get really upset when people disagreed with me. And now actually, truly, I see it as a side of success. My last book, the book before this one on Amazon, has just shy of 1,500 reviews.

7% of those reviews are one-star reviews, and the math on that is like 100, one-star reviews, and you'll be depressed, man. Sometimes I'll read those just for fun. But, like, if I was... You're a masochist. Sometimes it's just a good reminder. No, no, for real, for real, because I, when I wrote that book back in 2017, those bothered me so much. Like, oh, my gosh, that's good so mad. I can't believe that person and said that.

And I realized I had an issue. And one day I'm going to run for president, by the way. and win, and you can't be, you can't be a world leader. It's true. It's true, true, true. For real, you can't be a world leader and be like, oh, Martha and Michigan's upset at me, you know. And so I asked God for the gift of immunity to criticism.

He gave it to me. It took some time and it took some work, by the way. So hard work, actually. It's like a little bit of a painful journey, honestly. But like, eventually you get this gift and then you realize and you start to see it as a side of success. And what happens is instead of being frustrated or angry at the critic, you actually find compassion for them, which is unbelievable.

because you realize they're in the same place that you were. And I think I would couch all this by saying, you know, Paul, this is where I was going when I mentioned Romans. You know, Paul was basically the greatest theologian of all time. And the culminating book on theology is Romans. And he writes the first 11 chapters of Romans, which is unbelievers and Abraham and Esau and Jacob and how God chooses and how God works in the universe and Israel and their place and everything. And he unfolds all this stuff. and literally gets to the end of 11 chapters. And Paul goes, it's almost like he throws his hands up. And he goes, oh, the depths of the riches of the wisdom of God.

How unsearchable his ways, his judgments beyond finding out. It's almost like Paul in the middle of the theological discussion just said, that's it. That's all I have to have left. I can't say anything more because he actually reaches the end. And you actually do reach the end in theology. You can't get there from here. You cannot theology your way into an abiding relationship with God. It just doesn't work.

You were told pastors say this all the time. You have to take Jesus from your heart, for your head to your heart. It's kind of the other way around. Your heart knows, beats after God's on heart. It's your head that keeps stalking you out of everything. And when I would tell people, it's like, yeah, take the theology. I could go back and forth. I could do Bible the whole time.

I could defend all the positions, both sides, probably win. But what really blew the doors open for me was when I started having an experimental one-on-one conversation with God about everything. And when you're willing to do that, and that's what I train people to do, when you're willing to do that, it'll change your life. What is interesting is, I'll say this and then I'll pitch it back to you. Heart of the process I teach when I teach people how to sit down and have a conversation with God is a little bit of a breathing process.

But all the exercises that I have created, they're all audio, audio, people download them and listen to them with their headphones on. All of the exercises have a period of anywhere from three minutes to 15 minutes where you're simply breathing. You're just focusing on your breath and slowing yourself down. the goal is to dial yourself into God's carrier frequency, which is much slower than what you'll see on social media or on the news or anything like that. And it's the one issue.

Literally, like, I'll have people who will be like, well, I can't do that breathing exercise because I don't want to let a demon in. And I'm like, but you watch Fox News for like four hours a day. You wait, you know, you've been breathing this whole time, right? Like the whole time we've been talking even from breathing. You're not going to do a 10-minute breathing exercise with me. By the way, not to mention the Holy Spirit's name and the whole, Old Testament is breath. Holy Spirit

Tame in the New Testament's breath. You're not going to do a simple timid of breathing exercise with me because you don't let a demon in, but you're going to watch Fox News for four hours a day and wonder why you're angry all the time, you know? And so, yeah, I love those folks and I have a mission for those folks, but that's the long and meandering answer to your

criticism question. I love it. I think you just kind of surmines as you're saying all that. I was thinking of like that. I think that's why we lead the podcast episodes with what your thoughts on Bigfoot. Because the whole point is to get yourself into that a mindset of like, I don't know. I don't know what's out there.

And let's talk about all these, like, I mean, we talk about creatures on our show. We talk about encounters on our show. And we talk about the paranormal in our show. But, you know, you just talked for a long time about your faith and about miraculous healings. And it fits because I think we kicked off the show with like a, and it's funny, though, I think Luke and I, you know, we, sometimes the critics hit us. Sometimes those one-star reviews hit you.

But I think ultimately, when you start to, you start to, you know, you're going to start to realize, like, what you're trying to do is have an open-minded discussion. You talk about Bigfoot right from the get-go. You've got a lot of Christians rolling their eyes and being pissed at you from the beginning. So that was the whole point. It was to kind of tick people off, right? And then so we're surprised when people are mad and frustrated. It's kind of weird.

It's like that was the whole point. Oh, when you start there, too, you've got, you know, you're starting, you're setting the peg way out, way outside the lane. So everything else can kind of come back to the middle. So now, Ed, yeah, yeah, I love it, man. I think, yeah, appreciate it. Yeah, so appreciate it. Like, I think it's interesting because it feels like a two-parter, you know,

and you kind of have had two lives in that way, right? You're going to talk about all your military, all the things you did in flying and that perspective on the UFO phenomena. And then we get into a week on our show called blurry. It's really the supernatural aspects of our faith and having a conversation with God, which is what really prayer is. I mean, it's, it's, I think, and I just, I find that fascinating.

So, I mean, yeah, thanks for doing this. I feel like we could probably talk, honestly, for hours about, you know, about this and unpacking that. And that's what you do. So we wouldn't suppose on your time that, you know, a crash course in your, in your thoughts on hearing the voice of God. But super fun, man. This is a really, this is a really fun conversation that kind of went a lot of places,

which I love. I love that. We just combine, honestly, we just combine my two favorite topics at the moment, which I love the paranormal. I love, love, love the, the sort of. big question mark, like the big hairy question mark that exists. I'd love, love that topic, love that space. And I love talking about hearing from God. I think it's like the most important thing anyone can do. So we just spent an hour and 20 minutes talking about my two favorite topic.

So anytime, man, I will talk about this for hours. Well, dude, let everyone know who's listening where they can, they can find you, you know, your books, the things you do and what Ed rush is up to, you know, any given day of the week. Homeplay for me is godtalks.com. So it's G-O-D-T-A. Alks.com, super easy website to remember. That's where you'll find the book. That's where you'll find. I've got a series of audios that are completely free that you can just download. I always recommend just trying that out.

Like you listen to the audios, have a journal, have a conversation with God. It's 15 minutes a day for seven days a week. Pretty, pretty simple place to do that. I'd love to invite you to one of our events to, we do these live events where literally 500,000 people come together with the sole intention of for two days downloading and hearing new ideas from God. you'll see some crazy stuff, man. And by the way, it doesn't matter. You can be a Christian.

That's great. We have a lot of Christians to come to these events. You can be anything. And I mean that you're welcome to come. You will have an experience that will change your life. I can guarantee you that. And you have a lot of fun.

You'll have a lot of fun too. We'll tell a lot of stories. You guys should come to one of my events too, man. It'd be awesome. I could tell everybody about you and tell everybody to watch the show. And we can wear 80s gear or we'd be great. We wouldn't stand out at all. No, no, no.

It's so crazy. Like I had a woman, my last event. she's like one of those intuitive healer people. Literally, she, like, laid on the floor in the back of the event space with her shoes off and, like, spent about an hour, I guess she was listening or doing an exercise to land on the floor. And I was like, well, that's pretty much part for the course at these events. So someone was like, where's the worship band?

Literally, my last event, someone's like, where's the worship band? I'm like, I don't think you understand what we're doing at this event. This is no, you know, I love worship, praise and worship, but this is a very different kind of experience. I like it. You're like the guy if someone's having a heart attack. You're not a doctor, but come here. I need you to help push on this person's chest. Like, we're going to get this person back to life.

I know you don't believe, but you're going to believe after this is done. And you just kind of throw people in the fire. And I think as a podcast, we kind of do that, too, is like, I know you don't believe about Bigfoot, Mr. Author guy, but tell me your thoughts on this creature. And they're just like, what? What? What happened now? You know what I mean?

Like I like that sort of learn by doing approach. Throw people in the fire. You don't believe in God, whatever. We're going to talk about it. You're going to believe after it's done. Don't even don't worry. Don't even say thanks. Just keep going.

It's this confidence that we're part of this crazy story. God does love us and we're moving along 100 miles an hour. And sometimes you fall asleep to that. And talk about it like it's important, you know? Like people who listen to our show and come back to their faith because we don't do the Christian thing. We're like, no, Bigfoot's out there. He's doing his thing. And aliens are there too.

And, you know, you might have had some weird paranormal experience. And they're like, yeah, I did have a paranormal experience. And no one talks about it. But here, it's like, yeah, of course. Of course you saw a bigfoot. So you saw a gray alien, you know. And in a way, normalizing these things as powerful, but not weird or strange.

It's like really healing for a lot of folks. Yeah, especially in the context of our faith, finding spaces for conversations. You know, listen, hey, Jesus is on the throne. You know, and so all the rest of this stuff. And working. And all the rest of this stuff is, you know, as you say, is for, is wonderful to think about. And I think, and I think to your point, you know, what you do and to sort of back and forth on this is that discourse is so important.

I think we do ourselves a great disservice as the church, as the macro church, by not having discussions about, whether it be about, you know, hearing from God, or what do we think about the alien disclosure? or what do we think about, you know, fill in the blank, supernatural experiences. How do we think, how do we think about healing? We don't have those discussions, and we end up in these very rigid systems that become dogmatic and really only hamstring us from our, you know, where, you know,

possibly what God has for us. And honestly, healing. You talk about healing. There's a lot of healing that happens when you were able to discuss and have discussions. We talk about people writing down these things that happened to them 17 years ago. go, these abuses.

Those kind of things and sharing those stories is how you heal. And then God does his work, right? You ask him to do his work and God goes to work because what we love to do is take care of his kids. So I love it, dude. This is, this was fun, man. Yeah. Had a blast.

Thanks, guys.