Blurry Creatures - EP: 270 The Harvard Cryptoterrestrial Report with Timothy Alberino

Episode Date: October 2, 2024

In this episode, we're joined by Timothy Alberino, an explorer and author renowned for his research and authorship on hidden history, the biblical narrative, and UFOs. Timothy dives into the recent buzz around the publishing of the 'Cryptoterrestrial Hypothesis'—a report by Harvard researchers that has sent shockwaves through academic and UFO communities alike. We’ll explore what this document theorizes--that there's a "concealed earthly explanation" for the sightings of UFOs and UAPs. The researchers and professors argue scientists should seriously consider the possibility of cryptoterrestrials—non-human entities possibly living alongside us on Earth. Are these beings ancient, advanced species that predate human civilization? What could this mean for the future of science, government secrecy, the church and our understanding of life on Earth? Buckle up for a mind-bending journey as we unravel the implications and hypotheses presented in this controversial document! This episode is sponsored by: https://mintmobile.com/blurry — Get your premium wireless plan for $15 a month when you try Mint Mobile for the first time! COSTA RICA TICKETS! https://www.eventcreate.com/e/costarica2025 You can get our book of Enoch here: https://amzn.to/3xriiUB Support the show! www.blurrycreatures.com/members Socials instagram.com/blurrycreatures facebook.com/blurrycreatures twitter.com/blurrycreatures Music Kyle Monroe: tinytaperoom.com & Parker Mogensen Outro Song: On the Run by TimeCop1983 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Listen, Luke, we know that we live in a world where everything is fake, fake food, fake clouds, fake news, everything's fake. And you know what? You get tired of it. And you're just like, if I want to buy a shirt or something nice, can I just, please give me something real. Quinn's is an amazing company that does high quality everyday essentials. So we're moving in. We're in spring here. Moving into summer. Maybe you need to refresh that wardrobe so you're ready for the summer, t-shirts, shorts. These are everyday essentials made from premium materials. Here's a chance to refresh. your wardrobe for the summer at the price that's 50 to 60 percent less than similar brands. And we always ask, how do they do this, Nate? And it's because they work directly with ethical factories, cut out middlemen.

So you're paying for the quality, not the brand markup and everything is designed to last and look good, baby. Well, if you want stuff that's the real deal, go to quince.com. Like we have got a whole fleet of new T-shirts this last time, man, because I'm ready for the spring and summer. I got 100% ring-spung cotton shirts. I got a couple flown-it shirts of light and area to wear around, work in the yard, or wear to the studio.

If you're like me and you want to get some new threads for the summer, refresh your wardrobe at Quinn's. Go to quins.com slash blurry for free shipping and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada. You're in America's hat. You want the goods. You can get it now. Go to Q-U-I-N-C-E dot com slash blurry for free shipping and 365-day returns. Quins.com slash blurry.

Luke so often, people email us and they have this story. They're out in their woods and they're looking in the bushes and they got, What's that? And when you are pouring your dog food and your dog's bowl, that's the last thing you want to say. What is that? What is the stuff coming out of this bag? You know, I don't think a lot of us think about maybe what we feed our dogs. And that's why we partner with rough greens.

Most of us would love to have our dogs, you know, live as long as possible. I mean, I just lost my dog in December. And I would have just, I would have loved more time with Carl. And one of the things you can do to get more time with your dog is to feed them better. Dog owners don't usually realize that live nutrients, that their dog needs to thrive or missing from the food. You just talked about. What is that, right? That's where Rough Green comes in. It's America's number one dog supplement that you sprinkle on top of their food. It's packed with prebiotics, enzymes, omega oils, and 20 live vitamins and mineral support digestion,

energy and overall health from the inside out. It's all natural made in the USA and thousands of dogs are feeling younger, more energetic and healthier than they have in years. That's why we love it. I'm giving it to our two dogs. You know, I've got older dogs, Nate, as I said. And so, you know, since they've been getting rough greens with their food, I've noticed they have more energy. their joints hurt less, they're older. I mean, they were talking 12 and 13 years old. And Rough Green's really made a difference in their energy levels and the pep in their step. So if you want to do what we did, you can get a free jumpstart trial bag for your dog today.

Just cover the shipping. Go to Rough Greens.com and use discount code blurry. That's RUFF Greens.com discount code blurry. Rough Greens makes any dog food better. Colhart suggests the intelligence community has taken a great interest in such objects, such as Egyptian relics dated to 5,500 years ago, that display a mastery of technology involving the shaping of stone that is far beyond the known technology of that era. CIA has, quote, spent a lot of time investigating ancient civilizations, end quote, who were the

people who crafted these buildings? According to the biblical narrative, we have entities that are not terrestrial in origin, clearly not terrestrial in origin, that have. have been interacting with mankind since the beginning. Of course, we're talking about angels, good and bad. But we also know that the bad guys are here on Earth. And so the quote unquote fallen angels are cryptotorrestrial, because they are cryptically, stealthily inhabiting the Earth with us.

Now, why in the world would the CIA be interested in investigating ancient civilizations? What are they looking for? I'll tell you what they're looking for, technology. The history of our Earth is so different from what we can imagine. The Smithsonian, that if they found out about a large skeleton somewhere, was to go get it. I'm going to assume at least one person is right, because if one person's right to bust the paradigm, it all goes back to the fallen chair.

And the problem with the modern day church, they have a very truncated view of the supernatural. This backdrop is just pregnant. with all kinds of meaning associated with this Mount Herman event. And this guy defects from the kingdom. That's a big deal. Welcome back to blurry creatures. We've got a fun one for you today. Friend of the show and friend in real life, Timothy Albarino

joins us again today to break down. A very interesting study that came out this summer from some Harvard researchers, Tim Lomas, Brennan Case, and Montana Technological University professor, Michael Masters, put together what they called a crypto terrestrial hypothesis for UFOs, theorizing that there is a concealed earthly explanation for the sightings. This is a bit groundbreaking to have professors and researchers from Harvard

commenting on origins of UFOs and perhaps putting out a hypothesis. And of course, because it's been in the news, we want to bring on Timothy Alberino, who we've talked ad nauseum with about the UFO phenomena and perhaps what's going on. of course, trying to figure out what's going on, but this is a very fascinating dive into this study and to this hypothesis that came out from one of the leading institutions in the United States.

On our end, we have the Book of Enoch that we partnered with Tim on, is available on Amazon. If you haven't picked up a copy yet, I'd do that now. Also, very soon, by the end of the month, we're going to have signed copies and copies available through our store on blurry creatures.com. Keep checking back. We are going to Costa Rica in February

with Timothy Albarino and Dr. Joel Matamon, for our second conference in Costa Rica. This is going to be a fun one. There are still a few tickets left. I would check the website and pick one up because we're going to have a blast down in Costa Rica in February with Timothy Albrino and Dr. Joel Matamale. BlurieCon is sold out.

It's sold out in less than two hours, but every once in a while some tickets will pop up online. So if you want tickets to BlurieCon in person, keep checking back. There will be a few that pop up between now in the end of the month when BlurieCon sets off October 31st and November 1st in Franklin, Tennessee. If you can't make it, there are streaming tickets available.

Take a look. You can join BlurieCon for a two-day pass from the comfort of your home and your couch. You and your friends can join us in real time or even watch it at your leisure. So join us for BlurryCon virtually. Those are available through our website, Blurry Creatures.com. Let's get Tim on. Let's talk about the cryptoterrestrial hypothesis put forward by Harvard researchers. about the concealed earthly explanation, perhaps, for UFO silence.

Welcome back to blurry creatures. We have a special episode today with Tim Alberino. Tim, we've done many episodes over the years. And when you think UFOs, you don't usually think Harvard University isn't going to be involved. Today we're going to break down the crypto-terrestrial hypothesis. It's Harvard researchers Tim Lomas, Brennan Case, and Montana Technological University professor Michael Masters up there in your neck of the woods there. It's interesting. The paper is not affiliated with the university as the way they table this.

No. Yeah. But it's got a very interesting thesis. And this is one of those things, Tim, like when we talked about why we wanted to have you on this, obviously, is this directly in your wheelhouse. But we did this before. Nate, when we had the House Oversight Committee hearings on UAPs and that was going on and everything in the news is about this. One of the things we want to do is going to break that down and talk about this for our audience. Because both of our audiences, both Tim's audience and our audience, obviously you have an interest in what's going on in the mainstream this. UFO conversation, whether it be UAP or UFOs, has become a mainstream talking point, whether it's Tucker Carlson, Joe Rogan, whoever it is, and now we have our congressional hearings, oversight committees, and Tim has actually had the opportunity to speak with a few of the congressmen on those committees about what's going on. Obviously, in our space as Christians, we feel like this is an important topic to look at and to dissect, and especially when you start having Ivy League institutions affiliated in name with thesis papers and hypothesis stuff about essentially the origins of the extraterrestrial paradigm or phenomena.

And so, Tim, you are our guy when it comes to this. Of course, you wrote Birthright. We did the Book of Enoch with you, which is out right now in stores. Just a quick plug. It's an Amazon. You're a fantastic friend of the show, fantastic personal friend.

This is really your lane in some cases of the birds of the bird creature. Yeah, I think it's an important conversation, Tim, because a lot of Christians, they do the same thing. They apply sort of their preconceived understanding of what exists and what doesn't exist. because the Bible doesn't talk about aliens in the modern day sense that there is this

conversation that continues to happen in our channels and probably happens all the time with you and your friends and in your channels as well is that what's the actual data? Like, let's just let the data help us make a decision on what's actually out there and what's happening. We've done a lot of these conversations on our podcast, so welcome back to him. Thanks for diving into this paper, social science researchers, you know, that are trying to put together some answers, like what's out there. Well, gentlemen, thanks for having me back on. And I would say that this topic is right squarely in your wheelhouse, because it kind of, it's very broad.

It's not a very long paper, but it's very broad in the topics that they cover. And as Luke said, this is not a Harvard paper. Rather, it's written by three professors, Tim Lomas, Brendan Case, and Michael Masters. Lomas is a professor of psychology and a research scientist at Harvard University. Case is the associate director for research at Harvard University, and Masters is a professor of biological anthropology at Montana Technological University. So this is a paper that these guys coordinated and their efforts, and they wrote this paper together. And it should be noted that this paper follows on the heels of a couple of other papers that were written by these individuals,

not together, but individually. They wrote a paper on the interdimensional hypothesis and have discussed the UAP phenomenon from a scientific perspective. So this is a collaboration between these three guys, and they are zeroing in in this paper on the crypto-terrestrial hypothesis. Now, we should probably address their note

right off the bat here, because this is speculative, obviously. We don't want to give people the impression that these three professors believe necessarily believe in a crypto or subscribe to a crypto-terrestrial hypothesis. Rather, this is an exercise in academia in considering the possibility of this hypothesis. And they note right off the bat that this paper is a speculative thought piece that reflects the author's own interests and ideas. We would also like to emphasize that we believe this hypothesis to be in all likelihood false, but nevertheless,

believe it still merits scientific investigation. Of course, they have to say that. Right. It's kind of risky for them to write a paper like this because most of their colleagues would roll their eyes. And they spend a great deal of time explaining why they wrote this paper. And basically, in light of the recent revelations in the UAP realm, both from government sources and other scientists,

they feel that it's appropriate to begin to explore the very, hypotheses that could explain the UAP that do not have conventional explanations. So that was the motivation for the paper. Okay. And this. So there's enough smoke to say that there's a fire, but we don't want to talk about how much smoke and how much fire. Right? Yeah, they're very cautious and rightly so.

And they actually say several times in the document that they believe that the extraterrestrial hypothesis is actually more plausible than the cryptotterrestrial hypothesis. And I have some things to say about that. But I have this document, I've read it a couple of times this paper, and I have a lot of highlights. So it's going to be a little bit strange for people listening to this podcast because they can't read the excerpts. I have various citations that I want to read because there's a lot of really good

information in the paper. Sometimes it feels like when you get that phone bill, it's like the crash site document. You can't read it. There's a bunch of numbers, random fees, vague language, stuff's blacked out. You're like, what am I actually paying for? I don't know about you, but I like keeping my money where I can see it. I like to be simple. I like to be easy.

I'm going to be throwing away money on big wireless carriers. You too can say goodbye to overpaying for wireless, get a simple bill. And that's where Mint Mobile comes in. So stop overpaying for wireless just because that's how it's always been. That's what you do. Mint Mobile offers premium wireless service for a fraction of what the big carriers charge. And you get to keep your phone number. Get to keep your coverage, most importantly. And it runs on the nation's largest 5G network. So the question becomes, why has everyone been

acting like this has to be expensive? It doesn't have to be. Dr. Judd Burton's out there, dialing up blurry every day, giving us the scoop on what's going on in the academic world and the ancient world on Mint Mobile. Loud and clear on the job sites, way out in the middle of nowhere, Texas. And if you want to save money, just like the illustrious Dr. Judd Burton, switch to Mint Mobile. If you like your money, say where it is. Mittmobiles for you. Shop plans at mintmobile.com slash blurry. That's mintmobile. Dot com slash blurry. Up front payment of $45 for three-month five-gigabyte plan required equivalent to $15 a month. New customer offer for first three months only, then full-price

plan options available, taxes and fees extra. See Mint Mobile for details. You said this place was steps from the water. We just haven't found the steps yet. How much did we save? Enough. Enough to get lost. Or you got. I'd book a stay with Hilton.

Welcome to your ocean front room. Just steps from the water. The Hilton sale is on now. Book on Hilton.com or the Hilton app and save up to 20% to get the stay you expected. When you want savings, not surprises. It matters where you stay. Hilton, for the stay.

These guys do a great job, by the way. It's extremely well written, well researched. And as you'll see, they really cover all the bases. and I commend them for producing this paper. Again, it was surely at least a bit risky for them to do. So they begin by summarizing the purpose of the paper, and I'll go ahead and read this summary at the top of their paper. Recent years have seen increasing public attention and indeed concern

regarding unidentified anomalous phenomena, UAP. Hypotheses for such phenomena tend to fall into two classes, a conventional terrestrial explanation, e.g. human-made technology, or an extraterrestrial explanation, i.e. advanced civilizations from elsewhere in the cosmos. However, there is also a third minority class of hypothesis, an unconventional terrestrial explanation outside the prevailing consensus view of the universe. This is the ultra-terrestrial hypothesis, which includes, as a subset, the cryptoterrestrial hypothesis,

namely the notion that UAP may reflect activities of intelligent beings concealed in stealth here on earth, e.g. underground, and or its near environs, e.g. the moon, and or even, quote, walking among us, e.g. passing as humans. Although this idea is likely to be regarded skeptically by most scientists, such is the nature of some UAP, that we argue this possibility should not be summarily dismissed and instead deserves genuine consideration in a spirit of epistemic humility and openness. That's their preamble to the document. And before I dive into this, I give you guys some space here to take this wherever you want to, because I have a whole lot of highlights here, and we can work through them to get a sense of what these guys are propounding, proposing. So any thoughts before we dive into this. I have some initial thoughts too. We hear about sort of the UFOs going into the ocean and sort of the hypothesis of their maybe underwater bases. And of course, my first thought of, my other first thought is a joke. It reminds me the Rowdy Roddy

Piper film, they live. When you talk about they walk among us. A lot of people might not believe that, but Rowdy Roddy did. And he saw them, you know. So I, uh, I just, I think it's interesting. It, in some ways, it's, it's that prevailing narrative, but at least a spin on it, that the aliens are here. They've been here for a while. They're kind of watching. and they're going to intervene so we don't destroy ourselves or whatever, whatever sort of that situation is. Exactly what we heard Nate

early on in our show from Scott Walter. Remember we had this episode? We were talking about ancient geology and he's just like, oh, they're here. They've been here. They're behind the scenes. So that's what initial thoughts are in hearing this. And I think it's interesting.

We've talked to him. We've kind of talked to, I'm not sure if we talked online about this or maybe was at your house and we were discussing things late night, but we talked a bit about something on the moon, right? There's all these hypothesis about the moon. Like, did we go? did we not go? If we didn't go, then we didn't go. But if we did go, but they find something

that's the reason we didn't go back. And there's all these sort of hypothesis that exist in that space. And that's a huge rabbit hole. We're not going down today. Actually, we are. They discussed that very thing in the paper. Okay. Well, then we, well, let's go, man. I'm ready to roll. Let's break it down. Okay. Well, here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to start to read through some of these highlights that I have from the paper. And then you guys just stop wherever you want me to stop or interject, but there's so much good stuff. So I'll begin with where they begin, which is further defining and distinguishing the cryptotrestrial hypothesis from some of the other hypotheses that are similar. They write the following. Such as the strange nature of many

UAP that observers close to the topic have been compelled to consider a more unconventional set of theories known collectively as the ultra-terrestrial hypothesis. This denotes a broad category conjecture centered around the possibility that UAP may involve forms of non-human intelligence N.H.I. that are already present in Earth's environment in some sense, which Puthoff, and we're talking about Harold Puthoff, was a professor at the Institute for Advanced Studies at Austin, and he's going to be referenced several times in this document, which Puthoff describes as, quote, sequestered terrestrial cultures existing alongside us in distinct stealth, end quote. One is an interdimensional hypothesis, which was the focus of the previous paper.

This suggests that UAP may involve beings from dimensions that coexist alongside the four dimensions of space time we usually perceive and or that UAP occupants are extratemporal traveling through the fourth dimension to visit different periods of Earth's history, which may involve our descendants returning to study their own hominine evolutionary past. So cryptotrestrial is under the umbrella of ultra-terrestrial. This gets very complex. Yeah. The taxonomy here.

So it's under the umbrella of what's called the ultra-terrestrial hypothesis, which encompasses the extraterrestrial hypothesis, which I think, rather the interdimensional hypothesis, which is self-explanatory, and the extratemporial hypothesis, which is time travelers. So when you hear the term extra-tempestrial, we're talking about time travelers. So the cryptotrurestrial hypothesis is similar but different than those hypotheses.

All of these hypotheses are referring to non-human intelligences that are stealthily inhabiting the Earth with us. So that is the distinction. Do you feel like that some of these can cross over? Yeah. Like why does it always have to be one or the other? They acknowledge all of the crossover, and different people, such as Harold Puthoff, have their own categorizations, their own taxonomies. And it's very complex. In fact, I believe Puthoff has like over 40 different categories under ultra-terrestrial.

So it gets really granular. And these guys try and stay out of the weeds a little bit. They actually boil it down. They're focusing on the crypto-terrestrial hypothesis, acknowledging. that there's crossover from these other ones, but they're pushing out for the purpose of this paper. They're setting aside interdimensional and extra tempestrial hypotheses.

And they're just focusing on, let's call them biological creatures, beings that may be co-inhabiting planet Earth with us. That's their focus in this paper. Because remember, they already dealt with the interdimensional hypothesis in a previous paper. So this is sort of the follow-up to that.

And most people are familiar with the interdimensional hypothesis. And the interdimensional hypothesis is pretty straightforward. And the reason why it's very straightforward is because we don't really understand much about interdimensionality. There has never been any direct evidence of a fourth spatial dimension, although it is inferred. Most scientists believe that an extra dimension exists. super string there reposits at least 11 extra spatial dimensions.

We're not talking about the dimension of time here because technically the fourth dimension is the dimension of time, the three physical dimensions plus one of time. So that is the interdimensional hypothesis. Most people are very well versed in that, as versed as we can be. And this is not that. So it's good to establish right off the bat that we're not talking about anything. interdimensional here in this paper. Okay.

So the authors begin the paper by doing a really well-rounded evaluation of what has been occurring in the last couple of years in regard to UAP disclosure, especially focusing on what the Pentagon has said and the All-O-Main Anomily Resolution Office, Arrow, and Grush and all of the different whistleblowers. and I'll read a couple of excerpts here, just to remind people where we are in regard to UAP. The author's right. Many critics suspect that Arrow may be deliberately downplaying the topic

and concealing or at least obfuscating the extraordinary nature of many UAP-related events. Indeed, if so, this would follow a pattern set by its predecessors like Project Blue Book, which overall have served to minimize the significance of UAP and even to deny their reality at all. This prerogative was admitted, as such, by Rare Admiral Hilling Coder, I think that's how he say his name,

first director of the CIA from 1947 to 1950, who was quoted by the New York Times in 1960, is saying, quote, behind the scenes, high-ranking Air Force officers are soberly concerned about the UFOs. But through official secrecy and ridicule many, citizens are led to believe the unknown flying objects are nonsense. Then they write, David Grush, a veteran of the National Reconnaissance Office, a National Geospatial Intelligence Agency,

who alleged that the U.S. government and private aerospace companies had for decades maintained a secret crash retrieval and reverse engineering program. Their citing Grush is one of the whistleblowers there. Flowing ad budget on metrics that look great, until the CFOs, sees them, that's bullspend, and marketers are calling it out in. Dashboard Confessions. I remember telling my boss, it'll be good for the brand when leads were slow. Yeah, it wasn't. Cut the bullspend. LinkedIn lets you target by company, job title, and more. Advertise on LinkedIn. Spend $250 on your first campaign and get a $250 credit. Go to LinkedIn.com slash campaign terms and Additions apply.

Introducing the new best skin ever ultra slim precision concealer from Sephora Collection. It's full coverage with a matte finish and perfect for any look, whether you're building it up for a full glam moment or targeting correction for a more natural vibe. At only $12, it's great for affordable touchups on the go. Get this new must-have concealer at Sephora or at Sephora.com today. Other figures, they write, with the relevant expertise, and by the way, if people are reading this document, I'm jumping down, I'm jumping paragraphs.

There are other figures with the relevant expertise and security clearances have publicly vouched for his claims, Grush's claims. For example, retired Army Colonel Carl Nell, who served alongside Grush in the UAP Task Force, said, quote, his assertion concerning the existence of a terrestrial arms race occurring suburb. over the past 80 years, focused on reverse engineering technologies of unknown origin is fundamentally correct. Indeed, end quote. Indeed, they write, the authors, at a public talk in May 24, Nell was even more unequivocal, stating, quote, so non-human intelligence exists. Non-human intelligence has been interacting with humanity. This interaction is not new, and it's been ongoing and unelected people in the government are aware of that. Yeah.

Asked how confident he was with the statement. He responded, quote, there is zero doubt. Hmm. Hmm. So these are, again, the authors of the paper are reminding us. They have a whole lot more to say here. I'm skipping over large swaths of their paragraphs. They're just reminding us where we are in UAP disclosure.

They mentioned the unidentified anomalous phenomena disclosure act, which was passed in part, and this was put forth by Chuck Schumer, the majority leader of the Senate. Not all of it was passed, but some of it was passed. And it's interesting to review some of the terminology in that unidentified anomalous phenomena disclosure act. And they highlight this. The authors highlight that the linguistic nuance around this topic is, is intriguing, particularly the emphasis on, quote, non-human intelligence in the proposed disclosure act,

where it appears 22 times and was defined as, quote, any sentient, intelligent, non-human life form, regardless of nature or ultimate origin that may be presumed responsible for unidentified anomalous phenomena or of which the federal government has become aware, end quote. So that is the terminology from that piece of legislation. So obviously, the drafters of that legislation are leaving room for a wide variety of hypotheses here in regard to who these non-human intelligences may be, their nature, their origin, and so on,

which is very intriguing. And basically, they want to leave the door open for the ultra-terrestrial hypotheses, which, to remind the audience, the ultra-terrestrial hypotheses of which the cryptotrestrial hypothesis is a part, basically posits that non-human intelligences already present in the Earth's environment in some sense, are already present in the Earth's environment in some sense. And Puthoff offers a taxonomy of such hypotheses, including, as we said, extrademensional, Crypto-terrestrial, demonic or gin, proto-ancient human, which we're going to get into in a minute,

and time travelers, or some combination or mutation of any or all of these. I mean, I can't think of anything that Luke and I talk about on blurry creatures that is more widely divided than this subject. It gets very emotional. I mean, think about how these different factions of government that all have different agendas,

and then you have, the church has a different agenda. This is probably one of the most difficult topics to wade through it. If you're coming from an academic standpoint, it has to be really broad in general. But I mean, I can't think of anything, you know, pick a topic like Bigfoot. You have two ideas, but this you have like 15 agendas. Do you feel like that way? Yeah, and it's super visceral responses too, Nate.

Like there's just like people get very, very, there's vitriol in their paradigms and them unpacking their belief system about it. Oh, yeah, I mean. This is a tough one, right? And I think, I feel like we cover this in ways, especially with Tim, where we just sort of unpack from a pragmatic standpoint, right? Like, this is like denominational kind of stuff in the church, right? This is, this is people divide a thousand ways.

Good analogy. They believe it, right? And that becomes, it becomes a topic that feels almost salvic to, to folks. Yeah, the argument. You believe this or you don't believe the Bible, right? And you're like, just read your, read your Bibles, guys. It's a deception is kind of the main argument from the, Christians who don't want to look at any of this information. It's like, well, if it was that easy,

we wouldn't have all these denominations. We wouldn't have all this division in the church. The Bible isn't an encyclopedia. It very much relies on context, and you can make it go any direction you want if you manipulate it enough. Anyway, Tim, it's just interesting to me to think that there isn't a topic that we talk about that isn't, you don't have all these agendas. You know, the government is like this dragging with many heads. There's something fighting amongst them. And then you have, some people want it to come out. Some people don't. Some people don't. So, hotly debated. Well, as I've stated many times, I believe that the biblical narrative unequivocally affirms both the extraterrestrial and cryptotorrestrial hypothesis.

Because according to the biblical narrative, and I always like to say that extraterrestrials are presumed within the biblical narrative, because indeed they are. According to the biblical narrative, we have entities that are not terrestrial in origin, clearly not terrestrial in origin, that have been interacting with mankind since the beginning. And we don't have to go far down this path because we've done it on several occasions on your podcast before. But of course, we're talking about angels, good and bad. And we know that the good faction of these angels are coming from somewhere else in the universe. That's crystal clear. They don't abide on earth. Now, that does not preclude the possibility that they have a base here.

I'm talking about the good guys. But we also know that the bad guys are here on Earth. And so the quote-unquote fallen angels are cryptoterrestrial, because they are cryptically, stealthily inhabiting the Earth, co-inhabiting the Earth with us, according to the biblical narrative. Tim, when you say extraterrestrial, by definition that just means they're not of earth.

And if we're talking about of earth, we know that we are, and this really is the core of your book. If you guys haven't picked up Tim's book, Birthright, is the idea of dominion. This is places given to humanity, to the sons of Adam. And so it's semantically speaking,

and I have this conversation with people all the time. It's just extraterrestrial just means not of earth. And so, of course, that includes the angels. Of course that includes angels, that the Bible says, the sons of God stood for joy and sang, So we're going to sang at the creation of the earth. We talk about the Garden of Eden and the serpent

and all these different things that are not creations of earth. And I just want to define that because if you're jumping in now and you go, the Bible says extraterrestrials, that doesn't sound right. And you go, listen, by definition, what we call angels, which of course is Greek for Messenger, and we don't need to go all the way through this again. It's a job title, Anglos, right?

It just means it's this group of created beings that we call angels, sons of God, B'nai al-Heem. In Hebrew, these are the, Tim calls the elder race. These are the beings that inhabited the kingdom of heaven. Which is not here. Which is not on earth. Not here, right? And then a portion of those rebelled, right?

So this is the beginning of the, this is the prologue to our story. And we, you know, Christians believe that, but also a lot of Christians bring in the idea that anything they don't understand, it's demonic. or it's a demon. And so they apply that logically. And then you have academia who's built this evolutionary theory forever. So they don't want it to come out. They don't want any of these things to exist because then it throws a wrench in that entire paradigm. So you have these paradigms kind of colliding. You have four or five coming together in the middle. And the data is very explosive. It's forcing everyone to sit down and say, what do the stories say? And there's such an intersection here that nobody really wants to address, is what I'm saying. Nobody really wants

to pour through the data and actually say, well, what are these things? Where do they come from because it blows up a lot of paradigms. Yeah, I think it is important to point out, although we're not talking about extraterrestrials, we're talking about cryptotrestrials, but I just wanted to highlight the fact that the biblical narrative, as I said, expressly conveys an extraterrestrial and cryptotterrestrial reality.

And as you alluded to, Luke, an extraterrestrial is simply a being whose provenance, whose origin is not planet. earth. And my contention that angels are therefore extraterrestrial, by definition, is, I think, ironclad. You cannot make a coherent argument from the Bible, which denies the extraterrestrial provenance of angelic beings. Now, you can quibble over whether or not they're interdimensional or whatever. It doesn't matter. They're not from here. They are therefore extraterrestrial. The fallen faction of the angels, the apostate sons of God reside on earth.

And I would contend have been residing on earth before us. We're residing on earth before us. And so they are, by definition, cryptoterrestrial. So I think it's important because everybody wants to know, I would say, especially in your community and your audience, how does this relate to the Bible? That's the question, I think, the most common. question that people raise when we delve into these strange topics, how does it relate to the Bible? Well, I just explained how it relates to the Bible because we are operating within a reality

that is clearly expressed in the biblical text, in the biblical corpus. That's a good starting point for us as we leap into the details of this paper. Yeah. Wishing you could be there live for the big game. soaking up the atmosphere of the crowd, but too often, life gets busy, or the price holds you back. Priceline is here to help you make it happen.

With millions of deals on flights, hotels, and rental cars, you can go see the game live. Don't just dream about the trip. Book it with Priceline. Download the Priceline app or visitpriceline.com. Actual prices may vary, limited time offer. Let's get back into it. Okay, well, it's interesting, you know,

talking about how Christians received this stuff, the authors of the paper highlight a comment from Ron James, who is or was the Director of Media Relations for UFO Research Group, Mufon, who he claimed that he had been informed by intelligence insiders of, quote, a very large contingent, end quote, of biblically minded people within the Pentagon who have sought to shut down investigations into UAP, based on the fear that these may actually involve demons coming from hell. Now, this particular quote that's included in the paper comes, as they say, from Ron James, the director of media relations from Mufon.

But in the last year, I believe, and correct me if I'm wrong, I believe even David Grush has alluded to this, that there is a faction inside of the United States government, whether that means in the intelligence community or the Pentagon or both, that are actively attempting to dissuade and to even perhaps inhibit further investigation into UFOs. And this group is identified by Nick Redfern in one of his books as the Collins elite.

Presumably, presumably we're talking about the Collins elite here. And the Collins elite are this group of evangelical Christians within government who are, read into the programs who know about the aliens and the reverse engineering programs and all of that, and as I said, are actively attempting to inhibit further involvement with the phenomenon, either in regard to research and probably most especially in regard to the reverse engineering of the technology. Now, I have said many times, and I will say again today, If this is true, if, and I believe it is, I do believe it is true.

If it is true, these individuals, the so-called Collins elite, I believe, are gravely misguided. Their intentions may be good, but I think that working to further obfuscate and hide the reality of the phenomenon and not in anyone's best interest at all. And it's counterproductive. I think it reflects poorly upon the Christian community at large. And I think that these individuals, if in fact this is the Collins elite, I think that they should surrender this effort rather than trying to subverse attempts for disclosure. They ought to get behind it, like so many of the excellent congressmen who are also Christians who are pushing for disclosure. I mean, I had never heard of that. I'd never heard of the Collins Elite.

I can see why. It's like information initially is kind of shocking and scary, and it makes you have to kind of expand things. And I think there's a lot of fear of reactions to all these topics. Yeah. As I said, their intentions, if indeed the Collins elite is real, and this group of evangelicals are attempting to suppress information-related UAP. They're entirely misguided, and their motivation is fear. You know, on the other side of that equation, you have a lot of good congressmen, and some of these congressmen happen to be committed Christians, evangelical Christians. Indeed, I've been interfacing with them. These guys are on the other side of the ball.

They're trying to move disclosure forward. And they're not being motivated by fear. They are being motivated by truth. They want truth to be known. They believe that the American people have the right to know, especially in regard to taxpayer-funded special access programs that are consuming billions of dollars every year, developing technologies that are being derived directly from crash retrievals, from reverse engineering, non-human technology.

I'm with those guys. I'm with those guys. I think the public has the right to know, and I'm for disclosure. and I'm not motivated by fear. And I don't think that if you have a correct paradigm of the biblical text, you're not locked in traditional Western perspectives regarding angels and demons and these sort of things and aliens, then the revelation of extraterrestrial life or cryptotterrestrial life or whatever interdimensional life

is irrelevant to the message of the Bible. The Gospel of Christ stands regardless of any kind of revelation of extraterrestrial or cryptotrestrial life, non-human intelligences, co-inhabiting the Earth with us. In fact, as I said before, the biblical narrative presumes the existence of extraterrestrials and cryptotorestials. And this is something that these guys don't understand. In fact, this is a line of inquiry that I've discussed with members of Congress, and I believe that at some point I may have the opportunity

to prep individuals in Congress who happen to be believers who are trying to make sense of what they now know to be true. That is, that we are recovering and reverse engineering non-human technology. They know that to be true. They're just at this point trying to make sense of how this fits into their worldview

as committed Christians. Yeah, I mean, just to just interject, it's like the way you're describing it to me is like you can throw as many cards on the table, as many sightings, as much data as possible, and it's not going to affect your view of the gospel, no matter what happens. No matter how many pieces of information hit the table,

how many manila folders hit the table, and we open it up, and this is weird thing happens, and weird thing happens, this creature exists, that creature exists, it comes from here, it comes from there, it doesn't matter, it doesn't affect the gospel at all. That's right. Some Christians, they hate the folders hitting the table. It rattles, it makes them feel uncomfortable,

and they don't want to sort through it. it. So they deny it exists because they just don't want to go. They don't want to look. They don't read the book. This doesn't hurt the gospel. This doesn't hurt your faith. That's a good way to put it. And I just think that happens so often. You see that all the time, you know. It's just, and a lot of academia doesn't want this stuff to come out as well for different reasons. That's true. And most importantly, a lot of government. When we say government, of course, we're referring to the deep state, what I like to call the dumb state. And I make a differentiation between the dumb state and the deep state. The Dumb State is where these classified special access programs are actually being developed.

And much of the development is not in the hands of government personnel. Rather, it's in the hands of private defense contracting aerospace companies. So the technology is out there. I think that, you know, the guys that this, the congressman that I've talked to who've interviewed Grush, who've received testimony from a lot of people that has not been publicized, are absolutely and unequivocally convinced that these programs exist, despite ERO's attempt to dissuade them from further research to quell the interest in the topic.

Because Arrow, they have been very deliberate in this enterprise to try and inhibit further curiosity in the topic. And I know that firsthand. So there's a real battle raging behind the scenes. Almost from a business perspective, the business side of what they're trying to do, they don't want it to come out, right? Or the control, power. Well, there's national security concerns, for one thing. There would be broad outrage when people discover, if people were to discover that the government has been sitting on technologies that could literally revolutionize the world.

That could lift people out of poverty instantly. that could provide free energy to everyone that would nullify the need for petroleum-based energy grid that we have across the globe. So there's a lot of interests that are in play here. And again, we're talking about whether or not the phenomenon is extraterrestrial, cryptotrestrial. We're talking about beings who are in possession of clearly in possession of advanced, technology much more advanced than our conventional technologies. Yeah. Okay. Now, this is going to launch us into some very interesting territory here.

So returning to the paper, the authors, once they've established that the UAP phenomenon is real and that the government has all but acknowledged this and citing the whistleblowers, once they've established that fact, and again, they do a very good job doing that in the paper, they launch to their first line of inquiry as it relates to the cryptotrestrial hypothesis. And they say this, consider Puthoff's claim that there could be an, quote,

ancient occult group, isolated, prediluvial, high-tech society existing alongside us in distinct stealth, unquote. This episode is brought to you by Redfin. You're listening to a point podcast, which means you're probably multitasking, maybe even scrolling home listings on Redfin, saving homes without expecting to get them. But Redfin isn't just built for endless browsing. It's built to help you find and own a home. With agents who close twice as many deals,

when you find the one, you've got a real shot at getting it. Get started at redfin.com. Own the dream. So this is their first, as I said, line of inquiry into the cryptotrestrial hypothesis, they're going to now consider the possibility that there is a hidden faction of pre-flood people who are still existing, still living, inhabiting planet Earth. When I read that, I was quite surprised, actually, at how serious they're taking this possibility, although they did put that proviso at the beginning that they think it's likely false, but they really do. a deep dive on this, definitely worth getting this paper and reading it because we're not going to be able to cover all the territory that they do. But this is their launching point. Does a pre-flood

civilization still exist in some form underground? That's really what they're considering here. They say that, for instance, before the past few years, we personally would have rated the possibility. And they put this, this is, I'm jumping to the next paragraph here, and I highlighted this because this is very interesting. For the past few years, we, they, the authors of the paper, would personally have rated the possibility of a C.T.H. Crypto-terrestrial hypothesis, having some basis in truth as low as 1%. Now, listen to this. Now, in light of recent data, discussed shortly, we will put it at around 10%. This still, of course, means we view the CTH as nine times more unlikely, as likely. From the other direction, though, we also consider it 10 times more likely than we did before, with our priors having significantly shifted. Okay, so then they do this. They dive into the content.

They write, the starting point for taking the CTAH seriously is perplexity over two interrelated. empirical mysteries. First, it is increasingly apparent that UAP are not only aerial but can also move underwater in ways that, per their airborne counterparts, defy explanation. The importance and indeed urgency of paying attention to such phenomena has been outlined in a white paper by retired rare admiral Tim Golidt, cited above as corroborating Grush's claims, who argues that an extensive body of accounts and data show, quote, unidentified submersible objects or USOs, acting in ways that surpass human technology

and even challenge scientific understanding of what is possible underwater. For example, reporting on interviews with Navy submariners who had direct or indirect encounters with underwater UAPs, McGregor summarizes the situation by saying, quote, these objects have been observed to behave in ways that defy our current understanding of physics, much like their aerial counterparts.

Some UAP seem capable of moving through air and water with comparable ease and perhaps even other medium substances such as rock. With these transmedium capabilities, being one reason the UAP acronym was expanded from aerial to the broader anomalous. And then they say 50% of UFO encounters are connected with oceans,

15 more with lakes, So UFOs tend to stick to the water. And that's a quote by UAP researcher Vladimir Azaza. That's what David Politis said on our show, said that the water and aquifers very much related to disappearances. Yeah, and the reason why they're talking about, they're beginning this discussion. And remember, they opened this up with postulating

a pre-flood civilization co-inhabiting planet Earth with us, albeit in a stealthy manner. And so where they're going immediately is that this civilization might be inhabiting the regions of our deep waterways, the oceans, or maybe living

underground. That's where they're going here. And so they begin by highlighting the fact that so much of the UAP activity is aquatic, that UAPs are 50% of the time, seen in areas that have large bodies of water, such as at the ocean, at sea.

And this is suggestive of the idea that there are bases under the water, or there are bases not only under the water, but perhaps subterranean bases under the oceans, that these craft are accessing, which would indicate that, it indicates one of two things. and possibly both of these things are true, but it indicates either that, A, there is a hidden civilization or factions of such a civilization who have established bases under the ground or under the ocean and that this faction is native to planet Earth

or also the possibility is that it is an extraterrestrial faction that simply when they came to the Earth, establish these bases and now have operational bases on earth. Okay. So both of those things are in play here, and they acknowledge as much in the paper. This paper is getting pretty wild. Oh, it gets, oh, it gets, this is only the beginning.

It's also, that's a little bit surprising to, you know, as much as we've talked about this to hear the statistic that, you know, 50% plus of UFOs, you know, encounters are aquatic. I think we think about maybe the, your stereotypical one is in the sky. right? You have this UFO experience as lights and, you know, maybe you're at the GNC in Cleveland, you know, and it happens to fly over, right? But the idea that so much this happens in the water is, from a metric standpoint, is even surprised, it's a bit surprising to me.

Like, I know that happens, but the frequency is wild, that there's this much going on in our waterways and our oceans. Does the, I suppose the question that we should raise at this point is, does this exotic technology, this exotic propulsion technology, this exotic propulsion technology require water? Is this one of the fundamental elements that is required for these craft in regard to their propulsion systems? I can say this, in Peru, and Chase Kletzky is the one who told me about this. When she was in Peru investigating the elongated skulls with L.A. Marsoulli and some of the other individuals who were on that investigation, Chase had the opportunity to talk with the mayor of particular town, not far from Parachia.

And I was at this location myself. There's a lake, and I'm trying to remember the name of the lake. I can't recall at the moment. But there's this lake. In fact, we were filming at this lake, and we were doing some detecting around the lake with our technology, looking for some treasure, actually. And it's not a really large body of water. It's kind of a small lake. But Chase said, And then I heard it myself. I heard it myself from the locals as well. But Chase initially told me, when she was there with me for my investigation as well, she told me that during her conversation with the mayor of the nearby town, she was informed that one day there appeared over this lake a typical saucer. And it was seen by many witnesses.

And the saucer proceeded to suck up the water from the lake. And the people were beginning to freak out, A, because there was a saucer just hovering maybe 30 feet above the lake, and B, because that lake is their primary source of water. And this is in the middle of the desert. This is in the Paracas desert, which is exceedingly arid,

one of the most arid places on planet Earth. So a body of water is obviously very important to the people living in that desert. And the townspeople, the people lived in this town, town, and I've been through the town, can't remember it off the top of my head, they came, the lake is not far from the town at all. They gathered around the lake as the craft was sucking the water up, and they began to throw rocks at it. And the mayor was there. He witnessed the event, as did dozens of people from this town. And I, Chase told me the story, and I was able to confirm it

with individuals who live in the town. So yes, there is a relationship between UFOs and water. Now, I think the relationship is twofold. I think that the first and foremost, that there are alien bases under our oceans and probably in our deep lakes, such as Lake Titicaca, where you have similar stories that I personally heard while I was on expedition in Puno.

Peru and Bolivia. And B, it seems that these craft need H-2-0. For whatever reason, they need it. Either that or aliens have a pretty epic fire season as well. Or they're big cheaters when it comes to fishing. There's a couple options here. Well, there's the third option, and this doesn't really have to do with the saucers sucking up the water from the lake.

but is it possible that the insectilins and the grays are an aquatic species? Dude, the creature from the black-legged eyes, the way that they ingest food and secrete waste, probably secrete waste through their skin and so forth. All of this is very suggestive of a species that is accustomed to living in an environment that's not the environment that we live in. Exactly. So these are things worth speculating. Now, the authors of the paper don't go so far as to speculate about alien grays and them being an aquatic species and so forth. But they do talk about the possibility that these beings are inhabiting, as I said, bases under the sea. They even talk about orbs and other kinds of UFOs being seen both coming out of and entering into volcanoes. and they wonder if this might be access points to these underground installations.

I'll read from the paper here. They write, discussing Grush's allegations, Representative Mike Gallagher noted that one potential explanation for UAPs is, quote, an ancient civilization that's just been hiding here for all this time and is suddenly showing itself right now, end quote, with numerous seemingly well-informed individuals making similar comments. They continue. People have speculated these realms could potentially host ancient civilizations. They're talking about these underground realms,

whether human or some other species, which chose to conceal themselves there. Among the earliest modern proponents of this idea is the writer Richard Shaver. According to Ray Palmer, 1975, editor of Amazing Stories magazine, Shaver argued in a 10,000-word manifesto, So that advanced prehistoric races had built cities inside the earth, but fled to another planet due to concerns about radiation damage from the sun,

leaving a cohort of offspring who remained underground. Palmer revised the manuscript and published it as I Remember Lemuria. So again, the authors of the paper are exploring all of these potential scenarios in which an anti-deluvian civilization perhaps escaped a cataclysm by going underground. That sounds like a theory of somebody from somebody I know, and were able thereby to continue to exist in the world, albeit covertly.

And they really expand on this idea, and we obviously don't have time to cover all of the different postulates that they put forward in regard to this ancient civilization inhabiting the underworld, basically. Tim, I mean, you've been in the UFO space a while. What's the likelihood of an article like this coming out 10 years ago, 15 years ago? Zero chance. Zero chance. The only reason why these professors, again, two of them from,

Harvard and another from Montana University. The only reason why they feel comfortable doing this, and I think this is apparent in the way that they word their provisos, is because the UFO phenomenon is now known to be real and admitted, admittedly a genuine, genuinely unexplainable phenomenon, we'll put it in those terms, by the government. There are many credible scientists who are discussing the topic now and putting forward their own hypotheses of of um to help try and explain as some of the high strangeness surrounding the topic and these guys are just sort of throwing their hat in the ring but the answer is that's a great question it's good to keep that in perspective the answer is there's a zero percent chance that this paper would

have been written 10 years ago so we're in a new world we're in a new environment and i always say this on your show. We are not living in the same environment as we were a decade ago in regard to this topic. There are still some people who want to pretend like the UFO, UAP phenomenon is still debated. It's still debatable. But that's fantasy. The reality is that the controversy is over. It's over. UFOs are unequivocally real. Now the question,

the only question that remains to be answered, one of many, one of the questions that remains to be answered, I should say, is the nature of the beings who pilot the craft. Now, there are many people out there who continue to contend,

they'll admit that the technology is real, but they will contend that it is human technology and only human technology. This contention is unfounded. If you have any, if you are versed at all in uphology, you realize right away that this contention is entirely unfounded. It is being made from a position of ignorance because you have to account for it.

If that's your claim, if your claim is all of this is just, is human-derived technology. If that's your claim, then you have to account for the program of reverse engineering, these special access programs, which people like Grush and the individuals who I've talked to in Congress are absolutely convinced exist based on all of the anecdotal evidence, okay? And this is the consensus of nearly all, if not all, of the best eophologists in the, the field, I'm talking, especially the old school uphologists, based on

their interviews with various whistleblowers over the decades and based upon the government's own tacit admissions, you would have to conclude that there is no reverse engineering program.

Because why would we reverse engineer our own technology? What we're reverse engineering is exotic technology. Yeah. non-human technology. And remember the story of Bob Lazar. As everyone knows, I absolutely believe Lazar was telling the truth and is telling the truth.

Lazzar's sports model saucer that he was working on, he was specifically working on the reactor. The seats inside of that saucer were very, very small. Yeah. They were designed for diminutive people. In other words, for gray aliens. and the human beings who were working on the craft, who were attempting to reverse engineer it or components of it, and this was a craft that was entirely intact,

and that was operational, would have to stoop down when they're walking in the craft. It was very tight corridors for them, because it wasn't designed for them. The craft was designed for diminutive beings, for a non-human species. Okay, and there are many, many indications that this is true.

There are mountains, I would say, of evidence compiled by, as I always say, competent euphologists over the century, such as Stringfield, that demonstrate

the exotic nature, the non-human component behind at least some of this technology. And it is, It is undeniable once you have thoroughly informed yourself of uphology. And then as an addendum to that statement, what really destroys the notion that this is just all human technology can be summarized in two words. Alien abduction.

When you realize, as you should, if you do your homework, that alien abduction is real. then this idea that there are no non-human entities and that all of this technology is derived from ourselves, from human beings. Once you immerse yourself in the abduction, especially the old-school abduction material, that line of reasoning, that argumentation becomes nullified and irrelevant because the abduction phenomenon is real.

So in the 80s, we had Bob Lazar. we had individuals pushing forward the narrative, right? We had individuals who want disclosure. Are there any major institutions now that want disclosure? Is the tide shifting? Because before it's euphologists, it's small guys, is the Vatican want this to come out now? I mean, where are we with terms of major institutions?

Because I think that's the, you have Harvard people writing about this when you have big institutions sitting around saying, we need to talk about this. This is actually here now. And the Bob Lazar's, everyone goes, he was right, but an individual wants the truth to come out more than a major collective. Well, I'll name the most conspicuous group that's been recently formulated is the UAP caucus in Congress.

These are sitting congressmen who absolutely want the truth to come out, and most of whom, and I know this for a fact, most of whom are 100% convinced that Grush's claims are true and others who they've interviewed both in public and private. And I would say most of them are also, at this point on the caucus, are also convinced that much of the phenomenon represents non-human technology and non-human biological entities. So that's the most conspicuous group. That's a caucus in Congress right now. Still a smaller group. Do you think there's any major institutions? Well, there's a lot of people and this became apparent when Grush came forward with his testimony.

There's individuals within the Pentagon, some of whom are named in this document. There's individuals in the intelligence community who have come forward to verify Grush's claims and to stand by him. Even the Inspector General of the intelligence community who approved Grush's testimony concluded that Grush's claims were valid, or at least that they were valid enough to be brought forth to the public, to be brought to the public in a serious manner. And so, yeah, we've crossed the Rubicon.

We are now in a territory in which, again, the controversy is over, UFOs are real. And I would also add to that, even though this is due. disputed still, because the other, it's not seriously disputed that UFOs are not real at this point. I would add to that statement that UFOs are real and many of them are absolutely non-human in origin. And I think both of those statements are in accordance with the facts at this point. And I would also add that both of those statements are supported by, the people, namely those members of the UAP caucus who have inside information regarding these

special access programs, reverse engineering of exotic technology. Let's dive a little bit more into this, into the author's inquiry in regard to a pre-flood civilization that may be still existing somewhere on planet Earth most problem. underneath the earth. The authors write this. In his book, The NASA Conspiracies, for example, Redfern, Nick Redfern, includes an interview with someone seemingly associated with the Gemini program who claimed that there was a small band of individuals who represent the last vestiges

of an ancient, advanced, isolated civilization, responsible for the legends of Atlantis and similar stories, forced by circumstances to retreat into remote sequestered locales for survival. Now that, you know, it's funny because I did an analysis when I was doing the Elbrino analysis seven years ago, I did an analysis entitled The Exiles of Atlantis. And I proposed this very thing. What if, what if there are remnants who survived the flood, who are secretly, stealthily co-inhabiting the planet,

with us. And that doesn't necessarily mean that we're talking about human beings. We could be talking about hybrid entities. And of course, we're all familiar with the Nephilim, for example. And I know, and I'll address this very, very briefly, I know that the knee-jerk reaction by most Christians, when they hear me suggest such an absurd proposition, their reaction is, well, that can't can't be because the Bible says X, Y, and Z. I would encourage them to re-evaluate whether or not the Bible says X, Y, and Z, specifically in regard to the flood. Because there is a very scholarly contention that you can find from the likes of Michael Heiser, for example, and other very competent and accomplished scholars, which argues that the flood of Noah was not global. in the sense that every inch, square inch of land was under the water. They make the argument from a sound hermeneutic

evaluating the words that are used to describe the extent of the flood and to describe the flood in general in Genesis. So it's not just some argument that is born of rank speculation. This is an argument that is based on, on a scholarly analysis of the terminology revolving around the flood of Noah. And I believe I've seen the arguments because I used to be someone who subscribed to a theory of the flood in which every square inch of land, the very tip top of Mount Everest was under the, was underwater. That used to be my worldview until I became acquainted with the counter hypotheses of these scholars. who argue for a local flood.

And I ended up developing my own hypothesis of what I call a global cataclysm. So you have your global flood theory in which every square inch of the ground is under the water. You have your local flood theory in which areas of Mesopotamia, the flooding was localized, although very catastrophic,

was localized to that area, to the fertile, crescent. And then you have what I call the global cataclysm theory, which hypothesizes that the entire earth was subject to devastating cataclysmic forces and that much of the earth, especially, and indeed all of the coastal regions, were totally submerged. And that's where most of civilization was. So there are three ways to look at the flood of Noah. So for those of you who are wondering, how can we even entertain the idea that somebody escaped the flood when the Bible says XYZ? Well, the Bible doesn't necessarily say XYZ, okay?

And I would just encourage people to consult with the different viewpoints that are put forward by competent scholars. And these are not the so-called liberal scholars who are attempting to undermine the veracity of the biblical narrative. Rather, these are people like Michael Heiser, who absolutely, would affirm the veracity of the biblical narrative, but based on the terminology, they deduce a different view. Again, I would encourage people to go and seek out that scholarly material. Yeah. Any thoughts on that before we continue? No, I mean, I think we've gone into it a lot, and I think that we have to fill in some holes there. We don't know exactly how some of these things returned, came back, survived, so on and so forth. We just know they did.

but I'm more interested in the strangeness of the article, kind of where it goes from here personally. Well, okay, so continuing on the topic of this anti-deluvian civilization, this proposed antediluvian civilization that may have survived a cataclysm, the authors write the following. Schmidt and Frank were researchers, therefore suggest, and these are researchers that they cite earlier on in the document, I'm jumping five paragraphs down here,

therefore suggests that given the poor resolution of the geological record, particularly extending millions of years into the past, intelligent or even industrialized species might have long predated human existence on earth, but vanished without leaving a discernible paleontological trace, or at least traces that have been discovered by humans. They termed this possibility the Silurian hypothesis, this is very interesting, named after a 1970, the 1970 episode of the British science fiction TV series, Doctor Who, in which a long-buried race of

intelligent reptiles called Silurians are awakened by an experimental nuclear reactor. Okay, so the paragraphs that we jumped over in this paper expound the possibility that advanced civilizations have come and gone without leaving a trace over the eons. In other words, and they're using the evolutionary model to posit this idea that, let's say that a million years ago, a civilization could have arisen on earth and flourished and then was destroyed by a cataclysm. And another civilization, and human beings did not recover, or perhaps a pre-human or non-human civilization, did not recover, did not fully recover from that cataclysm, but went under. and decided to continue their existence underground rather than rebuilding on the surface, or that several such occurrences have happened

in the course of Earth's history. In other words, civilizations emerged, they built cities, they flourished on the earth until a cataclysm eradicated them, and then it happened multiple times. And their point is we would never know because the duration of time between these civilizations could be, could be hundreds

hundreds of thousands or even millions of years, and every trace of them would be evaporated. In other words, there's no way we could know whether or not this has happened. And then they continue in this line of thought. They write, as Harvard astrophysicist Avi Loeb puts it, planets like Mars or Earth could have given multiple births to technological civilizations that were a billion years apart,

and hence we're not aware of each other. Like stable parents, the planets recovered from the environmental impact of these civilizations over time, end quote. Similarly, Castra notes the viability of the Silurian hypotheses, suggesting that there has been, quote, plenty of time and opportunity for other non-human species to have arisen on Earth, developed to a level of technology far beyond ours, and then to have effectively vanished due to one or more of the myriad possible civilization-ending cataclysms, end quote.

Moreover, they write, As we continue to explore space, whether distant constellations through inventions like the James Webb Telescope or nearer to home through initiatives like NASA's Curiosity rover, new evidence may emerge that could challenge our assumptions about places like Mars. Joseph and Schild, for instance, published, quote, a sample of official NASA Mars photographs of what appeared to be the wreckage and debris from extraterrestrial spacecraft, partially buried bones, the body of a humanoid. stretched out on a cushion, the head of a humanoid, still wearing a metal device on the front of its face adjacent to a cratered debris field,

two humanoid skulls, including one that is atop, what may be a raised, elongated burial mound, UAPs, UFOs photographed in the skies of Mars, and a silver saucer-shaped structure upon the ground. And then they note, of course, caution is needed in interpreting such data. but what they're saying here is that in addition to the possibility of Earth having sustained these advanced, technologically advanced civilizations for periods of time and then witness their total obliteration in a cataclysm,

the same scenario could have played out on Mars, for example, is what they're saying here. And indeed, I would be very cautious with their first assertion that the Earth, millions of years ago, could have hosted a civilization simply because I have reasons to believe that that is quite unlikely, although I do believe that in the nearer distant past, such as 12,000 years ago, say such civilizations did exist and did flourish in the antediluvian world, I would be much more open and indeed do subscribe to the idea that civilizations existed

on Mars or a civilization existed on Mars in the distant past, and was annihilated. And in as much as I would subscribe to a civilization existing on Earth a million years ago, I would view such a civilization as being pre-ademic, in other words, non-human. And within that context, I do think it's possible. So what I'm trying to say here is absolutely, biblically speaking, let's put it in these terms, biblically speaking,

there was an anted diluvian civilization that was eradicated, That was absolutely obliterated. Yes, you can check that box in regard to its biblical affirmation. We can speculate whether or not such a thing occurred on Mars, and I, for one, believe it did. And if you read, for example, the late David Flynn's excellent book, Sidonia, you will find a lot of, I think, very convincing anecdotal evidence. evidence of that reality, that a civilization once existed on Mars and was obliterated, probably

in the unimaginably catastrophic destruction of Rahab of the planet that once existed, but is now a debris field between Mars and Jupiter. Yeah. You just blew the lid off this thing. We did talk about, we did, we've gone into Rehab a little bit. I think it was in Coast rica was it did we talk about oh rehab is an intriguing subject we have we haven't done that on on our show tim yet as far as an official episode but we do have in a bit of a teaser we do have a session we did in our costa rica conference with him on on the idea of the shattering of rehab and that that in your hypotheses on that i think is a fascinating fascinating idea of some of the things that happened as you say

they're not not too distant past yeah including part of this this cosmic battle and rebellion of the fallen angels in the kingdom of darkness and the kingdom of heaven. I know we haven't gotten to this yet and I don't know. I don't want to skip ahead if it's in there, but one of the things that we sort of tease at the beginning of this and postulated, they postulate in the paper is that perhaps there is a moon base. Yes, that's coming. Okay, I won't jump ahead then, but I...

That is coming. But I was curious. We're moving pretty quickly so we don't have that much more material to get through because I'm skipping over lots of paragraphs here. I'm just trying to get to the most intriguing points. And I think from a high level, Tim, it's just this entire exercise to me is fascinating that, again, I know it's at the beginning, but just sort of unpacking it, that we have a, you know, we've got tenured professors from some of the most preeminent institutions of academia in the United States, one being avid. And they're releasing papers that, at least with hypotheses on origins, right? Yeah.

I know that there's stuff about human time travel. and it feels like we're getting like a, like a, I don't know, explain it. It's like a science fiction movie, and we're just going to put all the movies into one movie and say, these are all our possibilities, right? Yeah, yeah, it's like, it's such a strange kind of like. Yeah, but the craziest part about all this is not that it exists because all these things we've heard, right? We've heard these sort of in different spaces in the places that we that we operate, whether in your research and shows in Tim or in ours,

But to have it sort of all distilled into an academic paper, it's to me still wild as we as we thread through it. And remember, this isn't an exercise in critical thinking. They are playing with the idea. Sure. But I think they're making a convincing case, maybe not for any specific proposition within the cryptotterrestrial hypothesis, but rather that the cryptotterrestrial hypothesis is likely true.

to some extent. And I and I and I, they do a very very good job at enumerating the various options within that hypothesis. And I would say that for those who are, we should definitely do a a show on Rehab at some point. It's one of the most fascinating topics. I covered my book and and for those who are interested, I also just got done doing a private briefing in my in my community, my members community on Rehab, which was pretty extensive and and it's it's one of my favorite topics and it definitely

corresponds to the cryptotrestrial hypothesis, so we should definitely cover it at some point in the future. So basically, to summarize what we've been talking about here and what the authors have been discussing in their paper, they summarize it in this way. The general point is that if another intelligent species had inhabited Earth or Mars, long before Homo sapiens, it is possible that we could have no idea. And I would affirm that statement. I think that it's assumed that if there was a technologically advanced civilization that was inhabiting the earth either in an anti-deluvian context or especially in a pre-ademic context, there's no reason to believe that the ruins, the remains, the residue of such a civilization should be apparent to us in the very strata of the

earth. In other words, that we should be able to discern such a civilization through archaeological investigations. That's not necessarily true. You have cataclysmic forces at work. You have time, depending on whether you're in a pre-adamic or antediluvian context, you could have a very, very long period of time, hundreds of thousands, even millions of years. And you have the very real, undeniable fact that we have not actually excavated very much of this planet. and that archaeologists are not looking for a law civilization. So they're not even looking for a law civilization. They have not excavated very much of planet Earth.

And I think it is a very arrogant declaration that certain archaeologists like to make. For example, I'll remind people of those who saw that debate between Graham Hancock and Flint Dibble, the archaeologist Flint Dibble on Joe Rogan's program, in which Dibble arrogantly asserts that if there was a lost civilization, we would have found it by now. And then he cites the paucity of archaeological digs that have been done all around the world. And I say paucity, because when you consider how freaking big the planet is, we have hardly dug into much of it at all in regard to archaeological excavations. Okay.

Now, the authors, I'm jumping down further in the paper here, the authors continue this idea discussing traces of lost civilizations. They note a very interesting point in regard to myths and legends. And so I'm going to go ahead and read from the paper again. They write, all cultures have their myths and legends. There are, of course, many ways to interpret such tales ranging from works of playful imagination to vehicles for conveying ethical teachings. However, there's an increasing appreciation that even if myths do involve such functions, they may also sometimes, perhaps even often, actually be attempts by preliterate societies at memorializing, interpreting, and communicating real historical events.

This hermeneutic framework gains further credibility when bolstered by observations of a particular narrative recurring among different cultures. A preeminent example is a great flood, found across many geographically dispersed traditions, including Sumerian, ancient Israelite, Greek, Indian, and Cheyenne. And they go on to talk about the various myths and legends that are shared by these cultures. They mention some of them, and they talk about,

you know, they also mention the Younger Dry, they don't name it, but they mention some of the details that are a part of the Younger Dry Impact Hypothesis, regarding the extensive flooding 12,000 to 6,000 years ago, and the epic of Gilgamesh and the biblical account of Noah and so on. And they're saying, might these be genuine records of these events? And of course, my answer is a resounding yes. And very interesting, they have several paragraphs on this.

They talk about Easter Island and very, very well done. They really did their homework here. And then they get to something that's related to the topic of law civilization, out-of-place artifacts. And then, you know, they have some commentary on out-of-place artifacts, but I highlighted this sentence jumped out at me. Now, listen to this. Colhart, they say, indeed, Colhart,

and I think we can assume we're talking about Ross Colhart here, suggests the intelligence community has taken a great interest in such objects out-of-place artifacts, such as the Egyptian relics dated to 5,500 years ago that display mastery of technology involving the shaping of stone that is far beyond the known technology of that era. More generally, he, Colehart, said that CIA has, quote, spent a lot of time investigating ancient civilizations, end quote,

seeking answers to, quote, who were the people who crafted these buildings, end quote. That is very interesting to me. So basically the authors here are, citing, I would assume Ross Colhart, I could be wrong, but I'm assuming you're talking about Ross Colhart, the Aussie investigative reporter. I would add excellent Aussie investigative reporter, is saying that he has people from the intelligence community that are telling him that the CIA of all people has spent a lot of time investigating ancient civilizations.

Now, why in the world would the CIA be interested in investigating ancient civilizations? civilizations. You know, you guys were saying before, like, this pretty much is encompassing, this paper is encompassing all of the plot lines from the most popular sci-fi films. So what in the world, if this is true, and this is a big gift, I can't, I suspect that this is true, and I've suspected this for many years, those of you who saw my, who've watched my true legends films know that I've speculated this for many years, that the CIA and other intelligence communities are secretly investigating megaliths, for example. What are they looking for?

I'll tell you what they're looking for. Ancient tech. That's what they're looking for. To weaponize. I believe to weaponize. Exactly. 100%. I think we've talked about this Nate a little bit on the show.

I think the Tomb of Gilgamesh and the expeditions and also wars around these expeditions are subversively fought and these geopolitical conflicts are subversely fought because there's a race to find the tombs of the nephalum, of the god kings. We did an episode on this whole thing with Dr. Jed Burton. But the idea that there is a clandestine, and there are clandestine operations, Tim, you know, across the world that are attempting to find, recover,

whether it be, I think, whether it be even genetics to build super soldiers or actual actionable technology, you know, for the purpose of international domination and what I think, warfare, honestly. We all know that at least one government, very famous government employee was very interested in some of these ancient mythologies and personages and out-of-place artifacts. Of course, I'm referring to Hillary Clinton, who in that email that became postageage. public that came to the public domain was inquiring about the tomb of Gilgamesh. So we know for sure that people in the highest echelons of our government, of course Hillary Clinton was the Secretary of State, are very much interested in some of these ancient artifacts and mythologies. There's no question about this.

In fact, the late Tom Horn claims to have seen what he believes were genuine picture. and photographic evidence of U.S. military personnel removing very large sarcophagi from the museum in Babylon. And he was told that these sarcophagi contained the mummified bodies of giants. And then subsequent to reviewing these pictures very shortly after, his house burned down. And that's something that I had the opportunity to talk to Tom about. And it's in the True Legends film series we did, me and Steve Quayle. And that story's documented there as well. But very, very fascinating.

I think that I would agree with Ross Colhart that the CIA and other elements of our intelligence community, especially the intelligence communities, are actively pursuing out-of-place artifacts and are studying megalithic sites. And I would say to the chagrin of... our archaeological intelligentsia who will wave their hand and say, no, there's nothing to see here. We understand the megaliths. We understand everything about ancient civilization. There are no mysteries here.

There's no advanced technology. And all the while, right under their noses, it's likely that the CIA is investigating just that. Out of place artifacts and advanced technology. Tim, is this where we tell everybody the real purpose of our Peru trip last year was to find ancient tech? Is that what it was? We were embarrassingly unsuccessful then. I don't know, man.

Nate and I found something in Machu Picchu that put us on our backs for a couple days. That's right. That was about it. So for our ADD listeners like me, where are we at in this article right now just to get us back on track here? We are coming to a conclusion. So I've got a handful more. highlights here and then we're going to and then we can summarize and again i've only touched on you know 10 percent of what's in this article now here is a here is a they shift from talking about

out of place artifacts and they move into talking about something that's very much in the wheelhouse of blurry creatures i'm going to go ahead and read uh continue on in the paper the author's right a paper in the proceedings of the National Academy of the Sciences for instance oh and I should tell you that they're talking about cryptids here now

a paper in the proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences for instance estimated roughly 20% of living mammal species remain undescribed with the bulk of that predicted hidden diversity likely found among rodents and bats two families with strong preferences

for subterranean dens and nesting sites. And of course, what they're talking about here is the fact that you could have you could have cryptids or you could have unknown factions residing under the ground and we would never know

because we only know about 20% of living mammal species remain undescribed even though we've gone looking for many different species around the world. So that's their point here. And they continue. Among the most notorious candidates for hidden mammothia,

million diversity is the Sasquatch or Bigfoot. Let's go. A large hairy primate purported to inhabit force in North America with similar legends of comparable creatures also found in other countries. Indeed, this was mentioned in relation to the Alaska Triangle above, they talk about the Alaska triangle, in which cryptosoologist Clift Barakman or Berwickman is reported as saying, quote, anything of any size could be hidden in the wilderness with so much fantastic habitat and so few people to compete with, Sasquatches basically have the run of Alaska, end quote.

Let's go. And then they highlight the fact that UAPs sometimes are associated with Sasquatch-like beings. They write some UAP cases involve apparent NHIs, non-human intelligences that resemble such creatures. In Brazil, a farmer reported encountering a craft that had crashed on his property, out of which two animals appeared, one of which was a stereotypical gray alien humanoid, but the other was hairy like a sloth. In other words, a Sasquatch. They go on to talk about the Chilean Atacama skeleton. You'll all recall that documentary that Stephen Greer produced some years ago. They talk about the mummified bodies. of the alleged alien beings in Peru. And of course, and I should say that they're very doubtful, especially of the mummified alleged alien bodies in Peru. I mean, just because they're citing these things

doesn't mean that they're affirming their existence. Okay, this is, as I said, this is an exercise and critical thinking here. They're playing with these ideas. What if something like this could be true? They've note that there was a long history of tales and potentially even suggestive evidence of the skeletal remains.

and other traits of species of humanoid giants. And then they say of particular relevance here are claims of intelligent cryptozoological species thriving underground. Across cultures are legends, for instance, of anthropomorphic reptilian races, such as the Nagas, a semi-divine species of half-human, half-serpent beings,

thought to reside in Patala, another world, venerated in Hinduism and Buddhism. Moreover, paleontologists have even speculated whether such creatures could possibly have evolved from known zoological origins. Russell and Saguine, I don't know how to pronounce these last names, in 1982, analyzed the morphological trends among dinosaurs toward larger brains and upright posture

in relation to a species called a troodon, and suggested that. had it survived the mass extinction events 75 million years ago, it would likely have evolved into an upright reptilian-like figure. They dubbed a dinosauroid. Critically, some people argue it could actually have survived the extinction and continued to develop by retreating below ground. So what are we talking about here? Reptillions, reptoid creatures that are mentioned in mythology, such as the Nagas, among the Hindu people. and other such reptilians, even those mentioned in popular uphology.

They continue. Another possibility overlapping with the extraterrestrial hypothesis is that an NHI could have arrived on Earth from elsewhere at some point and subsequently taken up residence underground or underwater or otherwise concealed itself nearby, e.g. on the moon. This is what I mentioned earlier, that when we talk about a crypto terrestrial hypothesis or cryptotrestrial creatures or beings or factions or civilizations we may very well be talking about a group that migrated to the planet in the

past and took up residence on the planet which would make them both extraterrestrial and crypto terrestrial we call that a hybrid we say that's a hybrid or hybridized or some hybridized version now Now, this is the final section, okay? And there's not a whole lot here. They have a conclusion, which we'll read at the end, because it's a very good conclusion. It summarizes the whole thing. But before they get to the conclusion, the final section,

they dub magical cryptotterrestrials. And these are ultra-terrestrial beings that overlap with notions like angels, fairies, elves, gnomes, brownies, trolls, and the like. And they note that we should keep Arthur C. Clark's, law and mind, any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. So when they talk about magic, they're just noting here that we could be looking at just exceedingly advanced technology, and we're interpreting it as magic or supernaturalism. And they include in their description here in the paragraphs that ensue, they talk about

pygmies and fairies and mings and sirens and apparitions and all manner of fairy tale creatures. they mentioned Valet's classic work, passport to Magonia on UFO's folklore and parallel worlds in which Valet postulates that the modern UFO phenomenon is just a rebranding of the same kind of supernaturalism that's been occurring on the earth for many centuries, indeed for eons.

I personally, and the authors don't comment on this, but I personally dispute that claim. I think that the abduction phenomenon, the activity of great aliens, is absolutely not attested in the folklore that Valle cites in his book. I think that especially the abduction phenomenon does not have a precedent at all in the past,

that is entirely unique and probably is only a little more than a century old, the actual program. That's not to say that the grace have not been reconnoitering here on Earth for millennia, but certainly the abduction program is not that old, and in my estimation, it has nothing at all to do with folklore. It is not the same, and that I have lots of reasons for believing that, and I articulate those reasons in my book, Birth, Right. Okay. Continuing on, the author's side.

Operation High Jump, led by Rare Admiral Richard Bird, and of course we're all familiar with High Jump. And they actually believe, they actually give credence to the idea that Bird encountered intensive UAP activity that could be interpreted as being in the service of protecting a secret base in Antarctica. So the authors are very sympathetic to the idea that there is a secret base or was a secret base in Antarctica,

and that whoever was inhabiting that base was deploying advanced aerospace vehicles. And indeed, that the Navy forces that accompanied Bird in Operation High Jump had some sort of a kinetic conflict with these advanced aerospace vehicles. So that's very interesting. Then they go on to talk about the Dulce base that is purported to be located under the Archeleta Mesa, near Dulce, New Mexico. and they even cite Phil Schneider. They write, Phil Schneider, who claimed publicly before his untimely death in 1996,

ostensibly, and listen, this is what the writers say, okay, and I love that they put it this way. I'll read this again, Phil Schneider, who claimed publicly before his untimely death in 1996, ostensibly by suicide, that he had been employed there as an engineer, and that it was, in fact, jointly operated by the U.S. military

a non-human intelligence species, with the latter having long been the original occupants of the Mesa and who were more recently encountered when the military were constructing their base. Yes, Phil Schneider claimed that we were drilling right down on top of this habitation, of these essentially what would appear to be tall grays. And you'll recall, if you're familiar with the Schneider's, Phil Schneider's story, by the way, I do believe this particular stories, especially, that Phil, he was a geologist working on the underground-based projects all over the United States and internationally, in fact.

And part of his job was to determine the methods that should be used to open up the chambers underground depending on the geological substrate. So he would take a sample of the geological substrate and then he would make a recommendation on what kind of explosives to use or drilling or whatever. And in this particular case, they kept, the drill kept getting stuck and they kept pulling it up and they couldn't, they could not figure out what's going on. So they sent, they sent Schneider down with a green beret, fully armed. They sent him down in a basket to go and make a visual appraisal of what's happening.

And lo and behold, when Phil got down to the bottom of the hole, what did he discover? He discovered this cavern in which there were these tall, as he describes them, grotesque, stinking alien entities that look like tall grays that were inhabiting this fetid environment. And one of them subsequently shot him with some sort of a ray. He waved his hand in front of his chest and some sort of a reig emitted from some technology from a chest piece and struck Phil. And the way Phil puts it, it crispy crittered his hands and feet, gave him cancer. the Green Beret fired on these entities,

killed one of them, and was subsequently struck dead by the blast from one of these beings. And that's the Phil Schneider. Part of the Phil Schneider story that these guys are, or rather, that is the Phil Schneider story that these guys are alluding to in the document. And I love that they say that he was died ostensibly by suicide,

because anybody who knows anything about Phil Schneider, will never believe that he killed himself because he said many times he's not suicidal, he's not going to kill himself. There were 13 attempts on his life, and Phil was missing a couple of fingers. And if you look, you can go to Google images right now, type in Phil Schneider death,

and you'll see a picture of Phil Schneider dead with a catheter tightly wrapped around his throat. His face is blue, purple. He's dead. And we're supposed to believe that this guy, missing a few fingers, who had a hard time tying his shoelaces, successfully effixated himself by tying a catheter, stretching a catheter and tying it tightly behind his neck

with only a handful of digits and killed himself in this manner. Preposterous, okay? It's also important to recognize that Phil Schneider's best friend, whose name escapes me at the moment, was executed in public. He had a gun shoved in his mouth and he was executed sitting in a public space on a bench, okay? They executed his friend

who was talking about Phil and was claiming that Phil was killed, was murdered, and so forth. This guy was executed in public, all right? So the Phil Schneider story, there's definitely truth to it. I find it very intriguing. that these, again, Harvard, university-level professors are mentioning Phil in the paper and doubting that he committed suicide. Okay, we are almost to the very end.

Let me just read a couple more highlights, and then we can discuss. I'd like to get some of your thoughts in summation on this. It's important to notice that Gulladet, who was mentioned earlier and cited earlier in the paper, they write, actually suggested authorities had established communication with a non-human, albeit without specifying their location, saying with non-human intelligence, albeit without specifying their location, saying, quote, I think it's about time that we do disclose that we are in contact with non-human intelligence. And then they end the paper before the conclusion. They end it with the topic of the moon. They say that a third side,

of intrigue is the moon, and particularly its far side, which remains perennally hidden from view. Obviously, this would be a very good place to put a secret base, since we never see it, right? And then they mentioned that there are the views of the actual Apollo astronauts, and although none have said, in public at least, that they encountered such bases,

many have been vocal about their beliefs in NIH. Most famously, Edgar Mitchell, who was on record in 2008 as saying, quote, yes, there have been E.T. visitations. There have been crashed craft and bodies recovered. We are not alone in the universe. They have been coming here for a long time, end quote. Now, I am absolutely inclined to believe that even if there are no secret bases on Earth, which there are, both human and non-human, that there are definitely bases on the moon. And the reason why I believe this is there's a couple of reasons.

I think there's a lot of good anecdotal evidence that there are unnatural artificial structures on the moon. There's a lot of amateur astronomers who have captured what appear to be craft coming out of openings in craters and things of this nature. There are more than a handful of these that have been recorded by amateur astronomers. who have their telescopes, high-powered telescopes trained on the moon and have video recording equipment attached to them.

And they're not looking for this sort of thing. They're just trying to get really great footage of the moon and they see these anomalies. And also, I know a family member who worked on the lunar landing module and his particular task had to do with the landing apparatus on the lunar module. and he interfaced very intimately with the astronauts. And when the astronauts returned from the moon, of course, some of that footage was faked because they couldn't show you what they actually found. When they returned from the moon,

they were in a state of elation because they had just made the most significant discovery in the history of the human species on planet. earth. They discovered two things. They discovered, A, that they were not alone on the moon. In other words, they were being shadowed. They were being observed by someone else. They saw craft in the sky while they were on the moon. They saw saucers specifically that seemed to be observing their activities on the moon. So obviously, they thought they were the first to go to the moon. They realized very quickly they were not indeed the moon had company already and number two they found

wreckage ancient wreckage on the moon that was in a state of ruin and that seemed to be very very old which suggests that somebody had been going there for a long time and they they told this individual and they were very excited because again this is the this is the most important thing ever ever to be discovered in the history of mankind. And then they were exceedingly depressed because NASA and likely the Air Force told them they were not allowed to say a word about it. And this individual said that this explains why the astronauts were so crestfallen at that debriefing, that public debriefing, and they all looked very much, very depressed and downtrodden. It is precisely because they were told to shut their mouths.

They could not say anything about what they had discovered on the moon. So anyway, that's very anecdotal. But I believe that there are, in fact, lunar bases. We may have lunar bases at this point, but I would say, with a great deal of assurance, I would say, or of assurity, I would say that the gray aliens have bases on the dark side of the moon. and most uphologists, I think, would agree with that assessment. Okay, I will read the conclusion, and then I'll kick it over to you guys for thoughts and comments, but here's the conclusion.

The material above, and what they're citing is all the material in this paper, much of which we did not have time to cover, actually contains four different cryptotterrestrial hypotheses. All would involve entities existing in stealth during reasonable. recent human history and possibly even before the emergence of Homo sapiens in some cases such as number two There the second one we're going to read here but differ in nature a differ in the nature of the beings in question Okay, so here are the four variants that they acknowledge that could be derived from their research number one

They call it C-TH-1 human Crypto-terrestrials a technologically advanced ancient human civilization that was largely destroyed long ago, e.g. by flood, but continued to exist in remnant form. That's number one. Number two, C.T.H.2, hominid or theropod cryptoterrestrials. A technologically advanced non-human civilization consisting of some terrestrial animal which evolved to live in stealth, e.g. underground, perhaps a hominid, alternatively a species much more distantly related to us e.g. descendants of unknown intelligent dinosaurs. In other words, they're talking about Bigfoot and or reptilians. So that's number two.

Number three, C-T-H-3, former extraterrestrial or extratrestrial or extraterrestrial aliens or are intertemporial descendants who arrived on earth from elsewhere in the cosmos or from the human future, respectively, and concealed themselves in stealth. Okay. Finally, number four, C-TH-4, magical cryptoterrestrials, entities which are less like homegrown aliens and more like earthbound angels relating to the world inhabited by humans in ways that, at least from our present perspective, are less technological than magical, who are known in European languages by names like fairies, elves, nymphs, etc. Then they make this note, which I think is important.

We might note that in his detailed taxonomy of UAP hypotheses, Nell also offered four CTHS, ancient slash proto-human, a survival, that's one, breakaway civilization, that's two, which is interesting, because that's Richard Dolan's term, that term so somebody's reading Dolan here um three crypted humanoids and I'll listen to his fourth and this is Nell and this is um Colonel Nell or General Nell I can't remember he's the the military guy cited above listen to number four stranded gods that's very interesting to me

stranded gods that seems very biblical to me so that's number four and that that's that's Nell's detailed taxonomy. And they're just noting that that he has these four different categories himself. Okay. And as a final thought, I would note, and this is a final thought, and they're just explaining their conclusion here, they say the following.

If the cryptotorrestrials belong to a conventional but highly advanced civilization, it seems reasonable to wonder why they would have chosen to remain hidden from humans for so long. The extraterrestrial hypothesis can at least posit that, for example, we've only recently been visited by aliens for the first time, perhaps by a small number of outstriading,

or rather outriding scouts with orders not too unfair to boldly. And the reason why I highlight that is because at the end of the paper, they confess that the extraterrestrial hypothesis is more likely, but they want to make a note here that both could be true simultaneously. And I want to remind our listeners that that is indeed the biblical paradigm. Both of those things are true simultaneously. There are beings who are of an extraterrestrial provenance, but there are also, to put it in the words, to put it in Nell's terms,

stranded gods who are inhabiting the earth with us. Of course, I'm referring to the devil and his angels, as the Bible describes them, who are right here with us on planet Earth, at least for part of the time, if not for all of the time, and are co-inhabiting the planet cryptically with us. So that's it, guys.

That's a summary of the paper. I think it's extraordinarily interesting. I hope your audience was at least regaled by this exercise and critical thinking. And what are your guys' thoughts on all of us? that. Oh, this is my kind of article. This is my kind of, my kind of thinking. I mean, I think little people fit into the magical part too, Nate. So you covered all your bases there. All they needed was just at the end. For more information, see Blurry Creatures podcast.

I mean, I don't know. It just sounds, it almost sounds bizarre to me that they would include all this stuff. It feels like some kind of, I mean, why would they bring up all? this stuff and then talk about it like sort of matter-of-factly but then caveat with maybe 10% take it serious it's just it's strange to me it's like such a mixture of feelings when you think i mean i like that the content is being discussed obviously given what we do but why them and why you know it kind of reminds me and this happens a lot when you get people behind the scenes and they talk off the mic or away from friends or they're just in a closed group of friends.

This is how they would talk to each other about these subjects. Yeah, that's a good point. But you know what I mean? Like people are afraid to sort of put themselves out there, but if you get someone behind the scenes, give them a few drinks, and then you actually ask, what do you really think?

And they'll talk to you like this. And so I don't know. It's like obviously academia can't really go into a lot of these subjects so they have to talk about it this way. But I mean, I don't know. I mean, I kind of get it, though, in some ways, right? If you're writing an exhaustive paper on potential outcomes, we're just talking about a scientific paper in general.

But potential outcomes of a hypothesis or an unknown origins kind of hypotheses. You're going to cover all of these things. I think the thing that gets me, Tim, and Nate, is that this exists. It's not that they didn't cover all these things, because I think if you're going to provide in this space, crypto-terrestrial hypothesis. You've got to cover everything, right?

This is just the nature of an academic paper. If you're doing any kind of study, any kind of scientific, and this is a thought experiment as well, but the idea that you're going to cover, you've got to cover all your bases, right? Otherwise, you have sort of an incomplete picture of the actual possibilities, the actual conclusions of said question. I mean, most academic papers are answering a question with,

or hypothesis with their answer, whether it be empirical or whatever. So this to me, I think the process doesn't surprise me, but I do think it's fascinating that all these topics are covered because it does, as we talked about somewhere in the middle here, it does kind of, it's a grab bag of sci-fi and possibilities, but I think you have to do that. If we don't have a real answer, right, and this is just from an academic standpoint, I say we, I just mean, generally speaking, we do, there's, it's, it's a, it's, the whole White House lawn thing.

We haven't had this close encounter where something shows up and says what it is. And even if that were to happen, honestly, part of me, most of me believes that it'll be a deception anyway in the event of a first contact. But in lieu of that, in lieu of a hard answer in that way, I mean, academically, you have to cover your basis. So I do think it's fascinating, though, Tim, to kind of walk through the exercise and suss out, it could be this. And here's what, here's why. and it could be this, and here's why. And there could be bases on the moon, and it could be this, and here's why.

And it could be, you know, stranded gods. And you start going, I think the more that you look into these answers, for me, I am more invigorated and more confident, if that's even possible, in the biblical explanation for this phenomenon. That to me makes way more sense than a lot of, Yeah. Sort of these, I don't know, these pop flies in the left field about what we might be experiencing and what it could potentially be. The things, too, is interesting is there's a lot of crossover, right?

So you actually in this space get a lot of the things that people, I thought it's happened with, reptilians, ancient tech, stranded gods or magic. And I use that in quotes. You can't see me because we're on, it's an audio show. but all these things sort of do, these Venn diagrams do all overlap as well. So I think the exercises of itself is maybe from a macro level what's really wild.

But then again, if we're going to be very pragmatic, we've walked through the last four years since 2020 where we're really in lots of ways the air of deception has been stripped away. If you have eyes to see, you have seen the amount of deception that exists and the ways that the powers that be, whatever you want to tribut it to,

you know, it basically controlled the populace, right? And then they, and then if you're awake at all, you've seen how it'd been gaslit over and over and over again in the last four years, right? So the idea that this discussion is now in the mainstream

would have been a mindbender as you asked earlier, Tim, 10 years ago, Nate, he asked Tim. But to me, it's not. Like we have, you know, some of these congressmen, Tim, that you know, personally, are part of a committee that's talking about this.

What I think is maybe more fascinating, and this is the last point I have in this, is that even this academic venture by a couple of people at an Ivy League institution and at Montana Tech, the fact that they are, this is an exercise that's existing in academia, and the fact that it really doesn't,

really doesn't blip the consciousness. It's this, I'm shocked in the same way I was shocked about how very little people cared about the fact that we had an House oversight committee in Congress on the subject of UAPs. Because it really should be, and Tucker Carlson said this, and you can say what you want about Tucker, but he talked about how shocking it was this wasn't like the monumental, like paradigm shifting, ground-moving story. It is the biggest story.

And tell me, you said this on our episode, the biggest story maybe ever that there's an acknowledgement of this. And I don't know. Maybe it's disappointing to me that we live in the. this era where people consume things in short bursts and are more concerned about, you know, the lifestyles of the housewives of wherever than they are about maybe potentially something that is so paradigm shifting and is becoming a mainstream talking point. That's maybe, maybe the surprise of this is that people aren't losing their minds.

Maybe they are someplace. I just haven't seen it, but it just seems like, they're like, yeah, okay. Maybe it's because we've been conditioned, too, by maybe by our media and Hollywood, et cetera, that this just still feels like a fantasy, maybe in some ways. And we have a place for that, a compartment for that in our psyche where we just put it. And it's like, okay, that's cool. They're talking about aliens. And maybe they're this and that.

Let's put it there. Instead of it being something that's like, wow. And that's why I'm glad we're talking about this for me enough for the last two hours, is I think it deserves the attention. At the very least to say that now academic minds in our Western post-enlightenment, academic paradigm, are now talking about the realities of extraterrestrials and coming to a number of proposed conclusions to what this may be. Let's not forget that there was a group about 70 years ago

who was intensely, intensely interested in the cryptotterrestrial hypothesis. And they were the Nazi, the Nazi party of Adolf Hitler's Germany. and they believed that there was, in fact, a civilization living under the ground. They called them the Vrille. And this is where you get the Vrille Society from, the occult group, the Vrille Society, and the Vril Maidens who were attempting to make contact with the Vrille through operating as mediums. And, of course, there's a book called The Coming Race by Edward Bullwer-Litton, which I read some years ago.

It was written in 1871, which some people wonder if it was, in fact, based on true events. And certainly the Nazi occult acolytes believed it was true because they went looking for the Vrille. And the reason why they wanted to find the Vrille was because the Vrill were in possession of technology that was based off of this ethereal power source,

which was called Vrille. And of course, the Nazis were looking for weapons. They were looking for anything that could help them develop new kinds of weaponry that would give them an advantage in the war. And we know for a fact that Nazis went to Antarctica, and they went to Tibet, and they went all around the world, the far reaches of planet Earth looking for,

evidence of either cryptoterrestrial hidden civilizations or technology that was lost from advanced civilizations in the past. And that's, I think, something we should keep in mind because I think the question we need to ask ourselves in light of Admiral Bird's encounter with apparently advanced aerospace vehicles, which I think is really just a matter of fact at this point, which he said would be able to fly pole to pole in the blink of an eye. I think we have to wonder if the Nazis did, in fact, make contact with a cryptoterrestrial civilization or cryptotrestrial beings,

either in Antarctica or somewhere else. Did they actually make contact with the so-called Vrille? It's worth pondering. And as a final thought, there's one detail that we should keep in mind And for those who are completely convinced that the cryptotrestrial hypothesis is most likely true, but the extraterrestrial hypothesis is most likely false. There's a lot of people out there like that. I encounter them all the time.

I want you to keep this little fact in mind here. We have exotic material. We've been able to recover exotic material from the crash retrievals. And the Grush has talked about exotic material. Obviously, Bob Lazar talked about exotic material. When I say exotic material, what I'm referring to is elements, material, matter that is not found on planet Earth. It's not here. So it has to come from somewhere else.

And if there's exotic material involved, incorporated into these craft, into these advanced, aerospace vehicles non-human, of non-human design, then it is undeniable proof that these beings are at the very least capable of going to other planets and mining the material, which would then also imply that they could very well have bases on these other planets or have originated from these other places. Okay? And the exotic, specifically,

according to Bob Lazar, the exotic material that was necessary for their reactors was called Element 115. And it should be noted that Element 115 at the time when Bizar, when Bazaar,

when Lizar came up and with his allegations, with his testimony, people scoffed at him and said, no such thing exists. The element 1.5, 115 is a myth. And then, and then some scientists in Russia discovered it. And we can today, it's on our periodic table, and we can today, it's called Moscavium now, we can, we can create a form

of element 115, but it's not a stable form and it's not a functional form. It's an isotote, an unstable isotope. But it, what it does is it confirms that element 115 in a stable form does exist somewhere, and how could Bob Lazar have known that? It does not exist on planet Earth in a stable form. So, therefore, if you have exotic material, understand that you have beings who are at the very least capable of traversing the planets in our solar system at the very least, at the very least.

Okay? So that's very important to keep in mind. So that's why people always want to shut the door to anything extra threshold, which I find bizarre, because I can get a telescope and see Mars. Okay? I can see it through a telescope. So why in the world would this not be in play in regard to the origin or at least capabilities

of these non-human intelligences? I think that's an important point to highlight. But thanks guys for having this kind. I know it was long and maybe boring, but thanks for entertaining this conversation. Thanks, Tim. I don't think it was boring at all. I think these are the conversations we want to have. I think there's nothing more, listen, like we said,

this and I don't want to beat the drum again, but, you know, I think these are the things that need to be discussed. Like, it, because we run the risk of not talking about stuff like this and not, not examining, you know, the oversight committee in Congress and the, the paper by these Harvard professors and Montana Tech professors. And we do the, we do ourselves to do service and we don't do that. And I do think that this potential topic, we said a number of times has the potential to, create problems for Christians that don't want to have these discussions. And that's why I think... Well, someone's going to push the narrative forward. And if it isn't, if you don't get ahead of it, then you're really going to be deceived.

And sticking your head in the sand and saying, well, it's all the deception. It doesn't exist. Or one of these other things is going... Yeah, I mean, you're really opening the door from mass deception because you're a fear. Because you can also hurt you not to look into it or to write it off, you know, and I don't know.

It just, it seems to be, you know, the endless debate in our channels, but I appreciate Tim. Thanks for coming on the podcast, breaking it down. My pleasure, gentlemen. Yeah, and if you're listening here, pick up a book of Enoch. We, of course, our project with Timothy Alborino, available on Amazon, and, and, you know, Tim put a ton of, we all did put a ton of blood, sweat and tears in this, but Tim wrote, you know, a fantastic commentary alongside the book of the Watchers, which of course is the part that is most

partner to the biblical narrative and also a fantastic comprehensive introduction. So you don't need to buy a commentary. You can buy our book and get both the Book of Enoch and the commentary on the Watchers. Amazon everywhere, I have to get that plug because it's our project, baby. It's all three of us sitting in this room here. That's right. But yeah, grateful, man. Plenty more ahead for Timothy Albarina.

know and the blurry boys and we'll keep you apprised of all of that as this as things keep keep keep moving but um thanks Tim and uh we'll uh we'll uh we'll do this again very soon I'm sure