Blurry Creatures - EP: 274 Divine Dreams with Tom Doyle

Episode Date: October 16, 2024

In this powerful episode, we sit down with author and missionary Tom Doyle to discuss a remarkable phenomenon: Muslims around the world experiencing dreams and visions of Jesus. Tom, whose book Dreams and Visions: Is Jesus Awakening the Muslim World? explores this topic in depth, and shares incredible firsthand accounts of how people, often in countries where Christianity is restricted or persecuted, are encountering Jesus in their dreams. We dive into the profound impact these experiences are having on individuals and communities, and the spiritual awakening happening in unexpected places. Tune in for an inspiring conversation about faith, transformation, and the mysterious ways Jesus is revealing Himself across cultures. You can get our book of Enoch here: https://amzn.to/3xriiUB Support the show! www.blurrycreatures.com/members Socials instagram.com/blurrycreatures facebook.com/blurrycreatures twitter.com/blurrycreatures Music Kyle Monroe: tinytaperoom.com &Parker Mogensen Intro/Outro Song: by TimeCop1983 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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They're out in their woods and they're looking in the bushes. what's that? And when you are pouring your dog food and your dog's bowl, that's the last thing you want to say. What is that? What is the stuff coming out of this bag? You know, I don't think a lot of us think about maybe what we feed our dogs. And that's why we partner with rough greens. Most of us would love to have our dogs, you know, live as long as possible. I mean, I just lost my dog in December. And I would have just, I would have loved more time with Carl. And one of the things you can do to get more time with your dog is to feed them better. Dog owners don't usually realize that live nutrients, that their dog needs to thrive or missing from the food. You just talked about. What is that, right? That's where Rough Green comes in. It's America's number one dog supplement that you sprinkle on top of their food. It's packed with prebiotics, enzymes, omega oils, and 20 live vitamins and mineral support digestion, energy and overall health from the inside out. It's all natural made in the USA. And thousands of dogs are feeling younger, more energetic and healthier than they have in years. That's why we love it. I'm giving it to our two dogs. You know, I've got older dogs, Nate, as I said. And so,

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Rough Greens makes any dog food better. We were in one of the countries surrounding Israel working with MBB's Muslim background believers and they're going to have a baptism and they do during the day shut the curtains nobody knows you know what's going on in there and there's one woman that's come to faith in christ and she's had a dramatic conversion she's come to faith in christ she's sharing with her children and there's probably about 20 more Muslim's going to be baptized that day and they're all coming in lining up but this one woman she told everybody my husband said If you are baptized, that's the end of the road.

That's it. There's no turning back, which many Muslims see that physical act. That's why I believe in be baptized is important, you know. And so we're waiting that the baptism start. She says, he said, that will be the day you die. Because I will tell you myself. And we're in the line and the people are lined up and they're starting to get baptized. And the door opens.

Here comes this lady. The history of our earth is so different from what we can imagine. The Smithsonian that if they found out about a large skeleton somewhere was to go get it. I'm going to assume at least one person is right, because if one person's right to bust the paradigm, it all goes back to the fallen church. And the problem with the modern day church, they have a very truncated view of the supernatural. This backdrop is just pregnant with all kinds of. kinds of meaning associated with this Mount Hermon event.

And this guy defects from the kingdom. That's a big deal. All right, welcome back to blurry creatures. We have a heavy but heartfelt episode today with Tom Doyle, author, and he's got his own organization. He does a lot of ministry in the Middle East. You'll hear all about Tom's story, but talking about dreams that Muslims are having

where they're encountering Jesus. And this fits right into the blurry verse of dreams and visions and hierarchy of beings. And at the top of them all is King of Kings, who is calling the most unlikely people to perhaps have a change of heart, change of mind. And we know that now in the last few years in our world. It seems like people are picking sides on everything and you can't change anyone's mind. well this episode is probably it's going to nuke all that and let you know exactly what's going on and how people are not only having faith but radical faith and change your heart instantly it's

pretty incredible yeah this is quite a treat uncharted ministries he's a missionary pastor author wrote a book called dreams and visions as as nate said about people having radical conversions in the Muslim world by jesus appearing in dreams and visions to this them. It's an unbelievable story. I challenge you to listen and not walk away, convicted and also encouraged by, you know, Tom's story and stories of the miraculous that's happening. This is very blurry, right? This is one of those things, Nate, as you said, that, like, there is dreams, visions, healings, miracles, sightings, and people getting blueprints, people, you know, seeing Jesus and having the same vision of Jesus, which is wild.

And we do something at the end of this podcast that we've never done before. We ask you guys to stick around, listen to a Tom story, and then join us as we pray for him going through what he's going through right now as well. I think this is one of those episodes we needed to hear. Hopefully you out there listening need to hear it as well. Sometimes we stay in the weird lanes all the time. and some of the stuff we hear. Just between just being honest, it gets a little depressing, interviewing people and hearing some of the sort of wild stuff

that people have to deal with and encounter, and a lot of it's scary. But I think the point of the show is to give people hope, and this one gave me a lot of hope, so hopefully it does. It's good, Tom Boyle. All right, welcome back to Blurray Creatures. Tom Doyle, welcome to the show. Welcome to the podcast.

we've talked about all kinds of things on our podcast, everything from people seeing actual creatures to bigger concepts. And a lot of times we bring on theologians and people who've written books and you're most well known for your book, Dreams and Visions, which is about Muslims getting visions of Jesus. And I think that it's interesting because we talk about the unseen realm. We had Michael Heiser on our show.

In the early days, talking about a lot of those concepts. And so a lot of our listeners love these different perspectives, because I think we have such a skeptical nature as it is as Christian. So welcome to the podcast. I'm sure we're going to get into this. And you also have a ministry and you spend a lot of time in the Middle East. So we can probably take this podcast a lot of different directions.

But we kick it off. As always, we ask everyone, what are your thoughts on Bigfoot? Welcome to Blurie Creatures. Well, actually, guys, since, thank you for having me. Since the last time we've talked, I actually saw Bigfoot. No, I'm just kidding. This podcast is taking a different direction. And we have things to talk about.

No, but actually, we lived in Colorado 20 years, and we were the highest point between Colorado Springs and Denver. It's a tri-lakes area monument. And there's a mountain there, Mount Herman. And actually, yeah, you know, Mount Herman, there's an archaeologist that was up there doing work. Have you heard about that story?

No. Yeah. And so he came back to his four-by-four. for and the things were messed up, his mirrors and his windshield wipers and different things. And he just smelled something terrible. And you know, you get the feeling when someone's watching you. He thought, okay, what is going on here? And he turned around and says he saw a big creature.

And it was probably 30 feet from him. And this is an archaeologist. I mean, this is not some guy that doesn't have any credibility. and he stands by his story today. So we keep hearing those stories. So, I mean, there's got to be something going on, right? Oh, yeah. Well, it's like six degrees to Kevin Bacon.

You're like, well, one degree or two degrees to the big guy. I know. That's right. The preface to this, guys, if you're listening, is that we did this show with Tom before, and then we had a, we lost the file. So this is round two. And Tom's been graciousness to join us. You know, the reason initially and still that we reached out, Tom,

is that, as Nate said, you wrote the book, Dreams and Vision, is Jesus Awakening the Muslim World. is about this phenomena that I've heard about and what's what we want to have you on about you know behind enemy lines if you will in these very very Muslim places folks there are having dreams where Jesus appears and tells people to follow him and so starts wherever you want to start I mean how did first and foremost you know you're not you've written books but how do you end up in you know in the Middle East how do you have an end up how does that how does that whole thing happen for you yeah yeah thanks

well yeah I went to Israel on a trip in 1995 seminary I went to invited some guys to go, teach him how to do Israel trips. And so we went and then I was took. So this is 95. So it's way back in the Dark Ages. This is before 9-11. I was tracking with biblical history, future things, didn't know a lot about all these different groups, these different Muslim groups, Sunni Shiites really didn't know. And honestly, I'd have to say at that point, I didn't care. This was an acquired taste for us to have a heart for Muslims. So it ends up that Started doing these Israel trips. It ends up that we've done over 100 now, Bible tours.

So let's do blurry creatures Israel, okay? Because we can take some places that nobody goes to. Because I'm an Israeli guy. I can go places where they can because of different political sensitivities. But anyway, so I started doing that. And a big change happened when I was getting my car fixed in Denver one day. Get my car fixed. Joanne drops me off.

The mechanic, and it's about an hour away, the mechanic says, man, I'm so sorry that your car isn't finished. We found another problem. Go across the street. There's a Middle East restaurant. Eat there. We'll pay for it and just come on back. Okay.

So I should say this, guys. I grew up. My dad was an FBI agent, organized crime specialist. So I grew up in Mafia City. So I was born in Chicago. grew up in Las Vegas. And the mob ran the hotels, you know. So I just grew up that way, understanding that world.

Sometimes it feels like when you get that phone bill, it's like the crash site document. You can't read it. There's a bunch of numbers, random fees, vague language, stuff's blacked out. You're like, what am I actually paying for? I don't know about you, but I like keeping my money where I can see it. I like to be simple. I like to be easy. I'm going to be throwing away money on big wireless carriers.

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New customer offer for first three months only, then full-price plan options available, taxes and fees extra. See MintMobile for details. Kayak gets my flight, hotel, and rental car right. So I can tune out travel advice that's just plain wrong. Bro, Skycoin. Way better than points.

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You know, forget about it. Yeah, that's right. And crazily enough, my wife is her family is Italian-Cicilian. So you see my dad at the wedding. He can't get away from it. Hey, you guys have a cousin in Toledo? Yeah, well, I think I know. So anyway.

Cousin, yeah, cousin Vito. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. So anyway, go up, go to this Middle Eastern restaurant, probably like 96, something like that, 1996, sitting there, two Muslim guys come in, black leather coats, closely cropped beards. They're obviously Arab. They sit at a table next to me.

It's only a few feet away, and they're whispering in Arabic. And I just thought, ooh, these guys are terrorists. I mean, they're whispering in Arabic. And we're down the street from the state capital. What are these guys doing? And so I'm listening in, I'm an FBI kid. We know these things, right?

And so all of a sudden, this one guy just says in English to the other guy, hey, Mahmood, the Lord is amazing, isn't he? And I thought, okay, now that's strange. That sounds like stuff we Christians say. That's kind of weird. But then they go back and they're talking about in Arabic and whispering, and I'm listening in. Finally, the other guy just says it out loud in English, loud enough that I can hear and others can hear. And he said, hey, Mohammed, Jesus is Lord over Syria, isn't he?

And I just went, what? And I looked over at them and said, are you guys believers? And they said, yeah, are you? And I said, I think so. I mean, it was before I came into this restroom and profiled them as terrorists and near their brothers in Christ and brought their chairs over and they said, man, we got to tell you what's going on with the underground church. Muslims are coming to faith in Christ. We've got to tell you some stories. And I was changed.

I sadly had taken my worldview from the news, you know. Yeah. So that causes us to look at a people group and, well, they're all doing. this. I had no idea that Jesus' church was victorious there. And didn't he say that it would be? So why would I doubt? Upon this rock, I will build my church in the gates

of hell. I'm not going to stop it. It's like Kleenex, you know, nothing. And all of a sudden, I got involved in the world where Muslims were coming to faith in Christ. And I started hearing about this dream phenomenon. I don't know about that. I know about that. You know, it's this... Did those guys have that phenomenon

happen to them? They did. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So these guys had actually had a real, like a dream or a vision where Jesus appeared to that. But then I started hearing, well, this happened to a lot of people. And I thought, okay, is this real? I mean, with these guys, it was.

But it sounded like Christian TV or something. I don't know. Anyway, I just wasn't believing it. So I'm sitting in a Bible study in Jerusalem. And we're going around the circle. And there's Jews that have come to faith in Christ, Muslims that have come to faith, think Christ didn't go around. The guy next to me, his name is Mahmoud and he, Mohammed, it was Mohammed. And he introduces himself and I just looked at him and I said, wow, what a name to

have as a believer and follower in Christ. Did you always, were you just wanting to have a personal relationship with God? Were you just dying to leave religion and have this personal relationship through Jesus? And he said, no, I thought I was right. And you guys were. wrong. And I said, really? How did you come to faith in Christ? And he said, simple man, Jesus started coming to me in dreams, telling me he loved me. And he was coming night after night and talking to me about that he died for me on the cross. I didn't believe that as a Muslim. That didn't happen. And he would tell me these things. And pretty soon I got a Bible and met a Christian and he goes, and here's how it happened. And so there were life change.

with just hearing those stories. In fact, I had legal pad where I'd write these down because as I wanted to share them with people like in churches, I thought, nobody's going to believe this. Do they think you make them? Do they describe what Jesus looks like? Does he look the same to everybody? Does he, because I'm a video editor. I'm a visual person.

How do they know? You know what, me? That's such a great question because in the beginning when we started hearing, about these these dreams many of them were the same they're looking across this lake there's a man in a white robe and he says i'm jesus come follow me and they would see themselves walking across the lake i mean we would hear this all over the muslim world like walking on watertown walking to them miraculously walking to jesus they're going to give me chills i mean that's like it's called peter out of the boat he's just doing it to yeah our moslem brothers and sisters wow wow and um

So anyway, we just kept hearing that same dream. Now it's different. There's all kinds of different dreams. But clearly, he would identify himself as Jesus. I'm Jesus of Nazareth. I died for you on the cross. And of course, Muslims don't believe that. That's the game changer, rocks their world right then.

But then over and over, women telling us that I never felt so safe with the man in my life as he put his arm around me and told me that he loved me. And so we found that there were so many people just asking for answers. And we do medical clinics in the Middle East, and it's awesome. We do them all over in poor areas. We do eyeglass clinics and our boys Tommy and Josh do those. And as we're in Muslim villages, and they don't have money. They can't afford glasses. And so we have them read. And we Evan Arabic, John 316, for God's so love the world. He gave his only begun. So try these. Put these glasses on. Okay, better or worse? Okay, read that again. Read that again. We'd read it over and over. So we're doing this medical clinic, and it was in Jordan, and the door opens, and I mean, these are big,

like a couple under people come, and this Muslim woman covered, peaks her head in the door, and I said, can I help you? And she said, oh, I didn't know if I could come in here, because I'm Muslim. And I said, well, of course you could. And she said, well, it's the Christian neighborhood. And I didn't know if I was allowed. I said, of course you are. Come on in. And immediately, when she comes in, she realizes she knows some of the women in the waiting room. And we give them Christian coloring books so they can, you know, color biblical scenes. And that is they're waiting anyway. It ends up. She's there the whole day. She's loving it. We feed them. We take care of them. The next day we get there for the medical clinic. And that woman's waiting for us. And

We walk up and I mean, we got to get there early, like 7.30. There she is with her kids. We said, you came back. And she said, I had to come back. Why did you come back? Because he came to me last night in a dream. Wow. What? She said, Jesus came to me. Just like you were telling me about yesterday. And he said that he loves me. He died for me. And it was just amazing. I just want to learn more. Well, you know, she was there for the whole medical clinic, just hanging out for the next three or four days. She had another dream. And really at the end of the week, she prayed to receive Christ's Savior. He was running. He was running. Wow. You know, because listen, if you're, if you're a Muslim and you're really ingrained and it's religion and in culture,

I mean, you said that repeatedly Jesus returns in dreams, because I would imagine probably not the first time people were just like maybe I had some, a bad kebab or something. I don't know when you think. Like if you had it, but it continued, it repeatedly happens until, I mean, and tell people relent. It almost feels like Angela Lord and Jacob. It's like, are you ready to submit to me? It's wild. So you're in this Bible study.

Let me just back to it in Jerusalem, and you hear this for the first time from Muhammad, then you have these medical missions that you're doing. Does that really set off your curiosity or your drive to collect more of these stories? You're having these real interactions, right? It happens first time in Denver, and then you end up at a Bible study,

and then you end up at a medical mission and you're hearing that Jesus is showing up. How does that change your thoughts on, if it does, on Jesus to realize to be sort of be confronted with this. Yeah, that's a good question. Reality that like, I don't know, I just think as Americans, right? Just like spreading the gospel too. Yeah.

It's like if Jesus can call his own to him, you know, even. That's right. Yeah, but I also think like Nate, like we, gosh, I mean, Nate and I grew up in the church, because you've heard the gospel story, you know, a million times by the time we've gotten into our 40s here. And it's not that it's not miraculous. It is miraculous.

It's changed our lives, like, drastically, but it isn't the same as sort of this radical conversion of God. I mean, I can't imagine, like, the feeling of God pursuing, maybe tangibly, not that God, you know, I think, I want to be careful on what I say, because I think we, you know, God pursues, all and loves us all the same, but like this, I mean, this is a real tangible. To break through like some very powerful, I think, principalities, I think that's what

you have going on here. It's not like principalities are different and sometimes you need a different strategy per per principality, I would say. Yeah, and you think about how Islam started, Mohammed went in a cave and had a dream. Yeah. And that's true. Where everything is built on that. And so in the Middle East, if we're three Muslims sitting together in Damascus and Luke, you say, man, I had this dream last night. Tell us about, hey, more coffee. Let's hear it. In the West, it's like you say, was that a bad kebab?

Wow, what was that about? And we just don't trust it. But they see that is a way that God can communicate. In fact, in the last week of Ramadan, there's the night of power, the night of dreams, where they ask God to come to him to them in a dream. And so they're used to that. That's their language. That's such a good context, Tom.

That's great context. Yeah, because that's such an alien, maybe concept to us, you know, living in Tennessee here. Nate and I or even just being Americans, there's this. So God's communicating in the way that they are, this is the channel that's open, right? If this is the way that their religion started. And yeah, this is the way that they asked for dreams at the end of Ramadan. on this is this is this is the way they do it this is this is their heart language man so you're asking god to communicate and then jesus shows up that's fat see i think that's so cool and and

this is the thing that blows your mind so just think muslims around the world are asking for a dream on the night of destiny god show yourself to me for someone that's open to christ like that he accommodates that request and comes to them and more muslims have come to we know more Muslims that have had dreams of Jesus on the night of destiny, they just weren't expecting him. Yeah. And he comes on Jesus. I love you.

I think about that too. Like Tom, you think about like there's obviously a principality. There is a power behind Islam, right? It goes away back to Abraham. It goes away back to Abraham and Sarah and Ishmael and Isaac, right? You have this dividing. There definitely is a principality over that.

So it's also this really layered Christ showing his dominion. or his authority, his supremacy over that spirit that's over Islam as well, being like, they're asking you for something. Exactly right. And here I come. Yeah. Yeah. Territorial demons.

So, you know, 30 years ago, Frank Peretti wrote this present darkness. And some Christians loved it. And then seminary smashed it and said this doesn't happen. And I saw him. I was speaking in Canada at a conference. And he was speaking there too. And I said, thank you for writing. that book. And I know you got beaten up by people in the body of Christ and people said,

you're a heretic. He goes, I still get mail, still get emails, you know, all that. And he goes, in defense, I would just say, hey, listen, this is just a novel. I wasn't writing a systematic theology on demons, just writing the story. But it shows that there's principalities and there's a structure there. It just seems like there is some territorial spirits. That's the story. That's That's what people got upset about, but he goes, look at the book of Daniel, Prince of Persia, Prince of Prussia, right? Yeah. And so we know that, and you will feel it.

And there's some countries you go into guys in some villages where it is so oppressive. It is like getting off the airplane in Houston in mid-August where it's just on you, that humidity. When you walk outside, it's just a heaviness. You feel that spiritually. Yeah. And a lot of times we have to pray, Lord, help me to remember this verse. I'm not recalling it. And there's a lot of, there's a lot of demonic warfare.

And so one of our guys, the leader in Syria, had a guy next door that was dying of cancer. And he's Muslim. But he left his neighbor. And he used to call him over. And Danny would come and visit with him. And he just, he said, they're taking me the hospital. I don't think I'm going to make it. come and pray for me. So he prays for him before they take him off to the hospital. And actually,

he gets worse. His Muslim friend gets worse. And now his family is saying, this guy's going to die. And so this friend of ours that we work with Danny calls the leading pastors in Syria and says, hey, there's a guy. And his name's Mohammed. And he's really sick. He's going to die. Would you pray for a salvation? Pray for him. Okay. And they're even announcing it in churches. Pray for Muhammad, you know, pray for this Muhammad. And when you say Muhammad, that covers like half the country. There's a lot of people who cover it. It's good. Pray for Mohammed. That would be a great awakening. So anyway, it ends up that he gets worse. He's in the hospital. And the next morning, the nurses walk in and he's sitting up in bed and he's talking. And they said, what is going on?

He goes, I just feel better. I just feel so much better. And the nurses said, well, what happened? He said, Jesus came to my room last night. Wow. So when the nurses don't know what to do, they go out and they get the doctors and the doctor's coming. Wait a minute. This guy's going, he's a little loco in there.

What happened? And he said, he says, Jesus came to my room last night. He goes, no, no, no, no. The doctor says that that can't be. You know, really, it was, it was Mohammed came to your room. Allah came to your room. No. Jesus came to my room last night.

And this one doctor is just so confident. He looks at Muhammad and says, Jesus doesn't come to Syria anymore. And Mohammed just looks back and says, well, he did last night. And he came right to this room. And he said, I'm going to touch you for my glory.

And I felt something on my shoulder, his hand. And after that, I was fine. And so the doctors are pressing. Man, they're angry. No, it was not Jesus. It was a good imam. He goes, no, I know it was Jesus. They said, you can't know.

He goes, no, I know. And there's a foolproof way of how I know it's him and not an imam. And they said, well, how do you know it wasn't an imam? And he said, it's simple. I've never met an imam with nail prints in his hands and in his feet. Oh, wow. Dang. And he's healed.

Silence. Silence in the room. he's healed and the whole hospital staff obviously everybody's hearing and he not only does that which normally they get you arrested what are they going to do put put that one in the paper you know they arrest him he meets believers there's a church that meets in his home people know he's had this incredible miracle these are some of the things that Jesus is doing that just they just blow our mind so I with that I want to ask a question like our show was built around eyewitness testimonies, right?

You hear so many people running into these creatures on enough volume. You know, like Luke and I haven't run into the half of the, you know, any of the stuff, really that comes on our show. But everyone's telling the same story. When do you start realizing this isn't just a few people? This is like, this is a phenomenon. More and more people are having the same experiences, you know, because like you said earlier in the show, you know, this archaeologist sees this giant creature.

I mean, I heard that, you know, over a couple hundred times before I'm like, this, the same story over and over again, you know, like, and that's what kind of propelled the start of this podcast. It's like, someone has to explore these things from a more biblical perspective because there's stuff out there. People are seeing their interact with. And I don't believe they're all lying. And you don't. And when you start to, when it switches in your mind, you go, okay, this is happening. This is happening in volumes. And then do you get the idea, like, someone's got to start writing all these things.

down. Something's happening. Yeah. And I didn't ever think I'd write a book on it. First of all, I didn't think it was happening to begin with. And initially wasn't drawn to Muslims, but just started writing things on legal pads, writing them down and keeping track of these stories. And our team, we have probably 70 national leaders in Middle East countries. We have people in Gaza, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, all these places, Pakistan. And so they're going to be. They're giving us stories and we're meeting people face to face. We want to verify the account. So we write real stories that actually we know they happened. So we either know them or one of our trusted leaders tells us the story. And it just it just kind of grows and grows and grows. So I think

desperate times, desperate measures. We look at the world right now. There's a lot of people that people are marching and supporting Hamas and Hezbollah in the United States of America. That's about all you need to know. Things are upside down. Jesus is coming back. But we're seeing dramatic conversions, dramatic turnarounds of people that have come to faith in Christ, terrorists that have come to faith in Christ, that their lives have been totally transformed. And so I hear this all the time, and I used to hear a lot from pastors. But this one guy was telling me, he goes, I just don't believe that happens. And you're just making these stories up. And I say, okay, first of all, I didn't grow up Pentecostal. So I wasn't looking for it. I didn't know this was happening.

And secondly, initially wasn't drawn to Muslims, but there's an acid test on did they truly make that profession to Christ or not. And it's this, are they willing to die for Jesus? And that's the thing. So many of them that we would meet, they would be asked the two questions before they pray to receive Christ. Okay, Mohammed, you want to follow Jesus? Okay, number one, are you willing to suffer for him? Because it's probably going to happen. It's probably going to be from your family, who you treasure the most, could go after you. Yes, I'm willing to do. Okay, it could get even worse than that. You might get killed. Are you willing to die for Jesus? Yes. This episode is brought to you by Redfin. You're listening to a podcast, which means you're probably multitasking, maybe even

scrolling home listings on Redfin, saving homes without expecting to get them. But Redfin isn't just built for endless browsing. It's built to help you find and own a home. With agents who close twice as many deals, when you find the one, you've got a real shot at getting it. Get started at redfin.com. Own the dream. Wow. Those two questions ask before they follow Christ, can you imagine if we had those two questions in the new members class in our church. I was about to say the same thing, Tom. Like you're at the baptismal at church. There you go.

We're not going to escape from the favorite verse today. That's right. We're actually going to see, are you willing to suffer or are you willing to die? It's a completely different paradigm. I want to say one thing, too, I thought it was really interesting about that last story. Nate, we think when we talked to Dr. Craig Keener,

because one of the things I remember asking, Craig, and actually I've talked about this offline with actually with my buddies, my Bible study, because it's mystery of miracles, right? like when and why does God decide in his sovereignty to intervene or not? And one thing Craig said, which I thought was just fascinating, it was that more often than not he feel, because he's chronicled all these miracles, right? In the same way you have just sort of more broad, more broad brush,

he says that in his experience, God is, God likes to show up and intervene when it's on the cutting edge of evangelism. And it's kind of what, you know, it's interesting. when when a when a was a man like Muhammad is healed and then people because of that people come to Christ because of the miraculous there it

it is evangelical in that sense right it's evangelism and it's not it's not tried and true rule I mean I don't want to say there's there's not a formula to what God does but it is fascinating that like when his when his name and reputation are on the line especially made behind

enemy lines in these spaces that he does things it's ultimately become because he loves that person desires to come to him, but he also loves all those other people around him who haven't heard or are resistant to the gospel. And more often than that, he would talk about how, or Craig would talk about how it would happen these remote villages and the entire village gets converted, right? Because I see the God's power on display and they go, wow, that God, your God is more powerful than the God we serve. Because he couldn't do anything right there. And you did. And I just think it's more of a, it feels like it's more of less of a genie. Like God, just do what I

want you to do and it's more like part of a bigger plan part of a bigger purpose it seemed that way after doing that because we never know like how it is going to affect everybody else around us and obviously the whole the hospital staff is like you can't say that because well yeah you're going to go to prison yeah yeah yeah there's also that that the violence thing the aspect too right like you're kind of setting yourself up for pain by saying that right they just say it's something else just he's like now there there were holes in the nail holes in his hands I mean, I just, I, Tom, I love this so much because I, I just think it reveals so much about the character of God. It is one thing to, to understand it, to have the head knowledge and to read the Bible and, which are all really, these are all great things of prayer, life and practice.

But you have this really unique experience of being able to see something completely radical that God is doing. I had a, I had a question. Why dreams? And is it just limited to dreams? Yeah. You know, it's not. So, you know, dream is at night of visions during the day where someone actually sees something, but there's healings. They're Muslims will ask Christians to pray for them. And things have happened where prayers were answered.

And God did a miracle. And so that person obviously comes to faith in Christ. And so they want to know more. So it's really dreams, visions, and miracles. We see that happening a lot today where people are just flat. desperate. Okay, so before the Syrian war, and that starts in 2012. So before it, Muslims would never in Syria go to an above-ground church. You know, they wouldn't. We have three churches today. You have a church on the ground. You have one that's underground secret. You have one that's

in the air, the cyber church, you know. But the ones on the ground, a Muslim, if he had questions about Jesus, he'd meet with someone privately. He's not going to walk into a church. Everybody knows who they are, their family name. It would get back to people. But after the war kept dragging on and on and on, after about five years, there was a pastor in Damascus that said, yeah, about 30% of the people that are coming to church on Sundays are Muslims. We see women. We see people they're just checking things out. Maybe they've had a food drive and they were feeding them and that, but they're interested and they're coming and they are open. So this one pastor said that he's preaching and he noticed this one guy walk in from kind of a notorious family in Damascus that's

known for terrorism. I mean, it's kind of like the mafia. You know, if you live in Sicily, you meet the Genovese family or something. You know, you're a family business, right? So this guy comes in because he's angry that he's hearing Muslims are coming into a church service. What are they doing? We should kill them all. And he goes in. And immediately, as he's in there, he is just hit by the power of God. And this pastor is preaching. Obviously, he sees this guy and he realizes, okay, I'm going to bring out more of the gospel. And this guy is just listening.

And he's just, his heart is just captured. He's never heard anything like this. And he just finally, after this pastor says something that just resonates with him, he just shouts out, Allah Akbar. And he doesn't know. Praise the Lord, right? Right, right. Nobody's a lingo. And everybody kind of looks at him.

And I always think about that, man, could you imagine that one in an American church? Nobody there has to preach another one guy. Anyway, so it just goes on. And the people are smiling because they see, yeah, we know who this guy is. But look at the power of God. God has touched his heart and who are we to deny who he. who he is from his past, that he was a bad dude,

but God is touching his heart. It ended up that over time he was led to faith in Christ, willing to risk, willing to die for Jesus. I mean, that's what we're seeing. And so these are like Hebrews 11 people version 2024. That's what they are. People that just overcame incredible obstacles to live their faith out in a context where it's a death sentence.

Well, it's interesting that there are groups of people in the world, Tom, that don't have a belief problem. And then the Western world, we have a belief problem. We don't believe anything. I mean, Luke and I run into it all the time. People are so skeptical of everything. People say that they enter, they, whatever it is. You know, I saw this UFO. It's like, nah, I didn't happen.

I saw this creature. Nah, it didn't happen. But over there, it's like, it's not they have a belief problem. They just don't, they don't know the options of what they can believe in almost. Right? So true. And I have a story they get to tell you, and it's so convicting because it's happened to me. And, you know, you'll often have people say pray for me. And I was in a church and in Jerusalem. And a guy came up to me afterwards. And he said, I was always preaching, pastor, would you, it's a Palestinian church, would you pray for me? My hand is withered. It's always

been this way. Would you pray? And I said, sure, yeah, okay, I'll pray. So I pray for him. And really, guys, to my shame, I never thought about it again. I prayed for him and think about it again. Probably a year later back in that church and pastor asked me to preach and so I'm preaching. And I see this guy out there and he's waving. And in the middle of the sermon, he's like waving big.

And I just kind of, you know, and then all of a sudden it hit me. And I get done and go up to him, were you healed? And he said, yes, something warm happened in my arm. Later on that day, my hand was fine. He goes, my hand was fine. No problem. And I thought about that. Why is it in the West that we have such an academic faith that we don't even leave room for the power of God to do something like that? But he believed that God was going to do something. I prayed, and I didn't really have that strong belief, you know what? Is anything too hard for God? And I think believers, man, we're in a danger, we're in dangerous territory if we're the doubters. In fact, one guy that we know in Jordan, he said this, I hear Christians ask this question, do you think God still does miracles today?

And he's a former Muslim. And he said, do you know what? I can't believe people ask that question in the West. Do you think God still does miracles today? He said, that question should never be on the table. The only question we should ask is, are you expecting God to do a miracle? He said, we have a lot of things to help us with our problems. It's us and God. And we pray and we expect miracles.

And oftentimes we see him. It's such a healthier way to be. Yeah. It is. It's a great word, though, Tom, because I do think, as you said, like we have this whole different view in the West, right? it's like it's like there's always a to our,

I mean probably to our detriment, we always have a contingency plan, right? In case God doesn't come through. I've got X, Y, Z that I, you know, and there's, I don't know if there's a posture of expectation. This is a broad brush. Of course, people pray and expect miracles and they do happen in the West.

I think that's one of the things that Craig, and we talked to Craig else said that like, well, it just is a, it's different, a little bit different the way things happen here. And I think you nailed it. I think there's a, it'd be a posture of our hearts that just doesn't, expect, right? Like as you say, you just kind of forgot about it, right? You're like, yeah.

Well, we compartmentalize it. Pray for a lot of people, right? Yeah. We seem to, we seem to compartmentalize our faith in some ways. Like, I don't think a lot of people around the world, too. They call alcohol spirits and things like that for a reason. You're not drinking alcohol, and it's, you're, you're consuming something, like a spirit comes over you. Maybe the spirit of doubt is in the Western world, you know, like, and we have such a divorced, compartmentalized view of all these things. And I think a lot of places in the world, They don't. They don't. It's all together. It's all amalgamation of everything that's going on. There is no supernatural even. It's like this whole thing is supernatural. It's just some days are wilder than others.

You know, and I think for whatever reason, we don't think anything interesting happens over here. We have a boring explanation for everything. Nate, would you say some days are just natural and other days are super? Yeah, that's right. Well, and you know what? You don't have to get on a plane and go to the Middle East to see it happen. God's doing miracles here. We lived in Colorado for 20 years and then moved to Texas, launched a new ministry, so we're in the Dallas area. It's July. It's so hot here in the summer. And I remember a long day in a lot of meetings. I'm not a big meeting guy, but anyway, I got the car after work. Who is? Who is? Yeah. I mean, all day, meetings, and then I walk out and it's hot. No wonder everybody drinks iced tea all day. It's just

just to keep you at sea level with the caffeine, I guess. I don't know. I get in the car and I'm realizing, oh, my gosh, I've got to pick up Joanne, and she's way across town. And we have a dinner tonight. So I get in the Honda, get up on the freeway, and it says six miles till empty. And I just went, are you kidding me? And so I'm, can I just say I was not in the spirit?

Okay, so pull off. There's three gas stations. Okay, I'll go Fina. I'll take this pump, stick the card in. It says, must-see cashier. Just go ahead. Are you kidding, Lord? Can I have a break?

Please, you know, I'm doing your work. Yeah. But anyway, I walk in to the gas station, and the lady that waits on me is Muslim. And we just came in this conversation. We started talking. And I said, wow, have you heard the things that what God is doing, how he is blessing the Muslim world,

how he's blessing your people? And she said, I don't know what do you mean. I said, he's lifting him up. God's doing amazing things in the Muslim world. She goes, what do you mean? And I said, Jesus is coming to them in dreams and visions. Jesus is coming to your people. And I said, okay, tell me where are you from.

She said, okay, so you go to the Middle East a lot? I said, yeah. She said, okay, you have to guess. I said, well, Egypt. She goes, nope, Saudi Arabia. I said, really? And so she goes, you know about Jesus is coming to people in dreams. I said, yeah, I wrote a book about it.

Can I give it to you? And she goes, you wrote a book about that? And I said, yeah. And she goes, because that's so weird, because I've been having dreams about Jesus. And then I go, okay, excuse me a minute, Lord, forgive me for being a whiner. Okay, you had a bigger plan here. To give her the book, take off a few days later. here we am. I need gas again. I thought, man, I'm going to stop at that place. I drive in. And I'm going to use that same pump. Stuck the card in. Work perfectly. Same cart. And it didn't say please see cashier. It said must see cashier. So I go in. And Rauia is reading dreams and fission. And she goes, Tom, good to see you again. This book is like my life. I said, like your life. What do you mean? How long have you been having dreams about Jesus since you said, over 30 years now?

And I've been praying that someone would come to me and explain it. And I said, well, don't you have any Christian friends? You live in Dallas. Did you ever go to a church and ask questions? She goes, yeah, I did. But man, it just seemed like people were afraid of me or something because I was a Muslim, didn't know what to say. And I just knew this. Jesus told me over and over in these dreams that he loved me so much.

And I just figured if he loved me that much, one of these days, he was coming for me. And I said, I think it's today. I mean, I think I'm thinking it's like right now and just shared some Bible verses with her. And she was ready. We held hands in the Phoenix gas station. Nobody walked in. She gave her life to Jesus right then and there. And I think about that.

Why do I tell that story? Number one, because first, I was a total idiot thinking about my day and my schedule and calendar and all of that. God has us here to serve him first, not our count. you know, and it's bigger than our Monday through Friday. And then secondly, we work in a building that has 50 different ministries headquartering there, and it's probably not even a third of a mile to this place. And she's looking for Jesus and can't find him. Oh, my gosh.

So anyway, it was just miraculous. The Lord did it. And she said, Jesus loves me so much. I knew he was coming for me one day. And I thought, that's faith. That's convicting. Yeah, it is, it is convicting. And I think we, I think we have information overloads sometimes, and we just, we don't

know what to think. We get skeptical. I mean, I remember early on the show, we interviewed a native couple called the River Winds, and they were telling stories about how Native Americans used to have similar visions and dreams over here. And God would come to them. And they knew there was a chief. among all the things that they were told, right?

And I think that a lot of people from different cultures are primed for Jesus to show up in a dream. They're ready for it. And we, like, we don't, Christians here don't even believe there are other lowercase G gods that people were interacting with. We don't even believe that. I mean, we, we, there was a whole campaign against Dr. Michael Heiser just for saying, there are other entities guys out there and you have this mass movement of Christians. They're skeptical against, I would say, basic 101 of reading the Old Testament. There's a hierarchy of beings, guys, and one of them says they're King of King's Lord of Lords.

And these people are waiting for him to show up, it sounds like. And when he does, they're like, boom, there it is. I'm ready. I mean, think about the amount of the difference between, somebody expecting Jesus to show up and doesn't believe yet, versus a Christian who you have to pound them with facts and data and science and years of archaeology just to say, maybe, maybe this guy existed. It's a wild paradigm between the two schools of thought. Yeah, do you think about it with the Indian culture, just like a Muslim culture,

heavy duty spiritual warfare? Yeah. And Jesus coming to them, man, that is a shot across the bow that just shows them, whoa, wait a minute, someone more powerful than this evil that's all around me that I have to deal with each day. Yeah. And they want to know more. And they want to, they want to know about the miraculous. I mean, one lady told my wife Joanne this. She said, I just, I couldn't wait to go to bed at night because I'd never felt so safe with a man in my life as I did in this dream when Jesus, would come and I'd go to bed and say, Jesus, come to me in a dream. This is before she's a believer, but she believes he's real. And so, yeah, it's, it's, it's so true. Sometimes it's hard

to convince Christians. And again, that's the only place where we get blowback is from different Christian group. That's us too. That is us too. Yeah, let's look at the positives. They came to Christ and they're willing to buy for him. Jesus didn't say anything that conflicted with scripture, what he's so uptight about, you know? Oh, I mean, today, I mean, we posted something about Russell Brand the end of the day, in her, you see the amount of, this is fake, this is a fake conversion, it's almost like Christians are wired to be overly skeptical. It's like a different spirit, a spirit of judgment comes over, a spirit of Jezbo,

whatever it is, right? It's like we're all dealing with a different temptation to miss the mark and miss what's happening. I don't know how to it definitely often feels spiritual. You can't explain why groups of people all think the same in different places. It's like how is that even possible if we're all just having independent thoughts? Yeah. And you know what guys? I do a Bible text a couple times a week, send a family and friends and stuff. And one of the things I'm always saying is when I talk about them is as believers we never want to be like the finger pointing Pharisees we are not to emulate them that we've cornered the truth and anything that doesn't fit in what what my belief system is

we have to trash the person and and and throw them out of our group you know i think Nate i think about what you talk about with Russell brand and even with like we had richie the barber and we I'm on the episode and the thing those two guys and you know you hope by all outwards it looks like their conversions are are authentic right and you hope they are but what you see in all of this is that the most harsh people towards people that are that are seem to be appear to be on fire for the Lord on fire for God literally swimming in the richness of their new salvation is it is that it mostly is Christians pouring cold water on them or doubting their the authenticity of their of their conversion, which

that's a whole, that's a whole conversation for another time, but to me it's... Yeah, they're attacking them because they have an emotional reaction to their faith, and you're not allowed to have an emotional reaction. You're not allowed to do things that are, you know, you have to stay in this little box and you have to be... Oh, you haven't agreed to the creeds and you haven't

done X, Y, Z, and it's just like, I just... It's sad, it seems... It's sad to me, and you know, we don't know anyone's heart, and we just qualify that. I don't want to know anyone's heart, but at the same time, it just is a... We should be rooting for authenticity. Exactly.

We should be, you know, hoping and rooting these folks who are actually because. Yeah, it is. And then to that juxtaposition, Tom, like the conversions you're seeing in these miraculous conversions. It is everything is on the line. Everything. To their very life, right? And these people are saying, I'll lay down my life for. Yeah, the stakes are high.

Oh, man. They're not, it couldn't be higher. Oh, my gosh. We were in one of the countries surrounding Israel, working with MBBs, Muslim background believers, and they're going to have a baptism. And they do it during the day, shut the curtains. Nobody knows what's going on in there. And there's one woman that's come to faith in Christ, and she's had a dramatic conversion. She's come to faith in Christ.

She's sharing with her children. And there's probably about 20 more Muslims going to be baptized that day. and they're all coming in lining up, but this one woman, she told everybody, my husband said, if you are baptized, that's the end of the road. That's it. There's no turning back, which many Muslims see that physical act. That's why I believe in be baptized is important, you know. And so we're waiting that the baptism start. She says, he said, that will be the day you die because I will kill you myself. And we're in the line and the people are lined up and they're getting, starting to get baptized.

And the door opens. And here comes this lady. And she gets in line and I just thought, oh my gosh, talk about faith. No, she may be going home. And this is the end of her life. He miraculously didn't kill her. and she's still alive. But she came and she walked in that room.

And I'm telling you, the place went nuts. And they started cheering for her because they knew you talk about life on the line. This is it. And God blessed her. She's still alive to this day. That's a good story. Yeah. And she prays for her husband in another room.

And she says sometimes she can hear him walking up listening to the prayers. he likes that she's praying for him. So God's doing something with him. It reminds me of when we talk to Derek Gilbert about the value of the shadow of death, this idea of impending death. I think what your faith is on, like you're constantly wondering if you're going to live

or you're going to die. I mean, you have a different mindset completely. And I think that over there, they have more of an ancient mindset. I think that if you read the Old Testament, you understand why there was this war going on all the time. We're out west.

We're so apathetic. We don't believe anything. And I think the ancients had, you didn't have people who didn't believe. You had staunch beliefs and they were always at conflict with each other. It's like the principalities over there are stronger or different. I don't know how to explain it, but they don't. It would be a miraculous coming to Jesus almost every time given how deep rooted they are in what they believe. And you know what?

Are the principality stronger there? I'll say this, and this is speculation. But think about World War II, Hitler. We look at his eyes. We look at what he projected, the hatred. Was he demonized? I bet my house on it. I bet my life, right, that he was demonized.

I mean, we hear stories of people that went to one of his speeches, but they worked at an auto plant, and they didn't want to go. They didn't like Hitler, but the boss said, you have to go and they go. and then their testimony is within two minutes, I knew that I would die for this man. Clearly, there's something demonic going on. So, into World War II, Hitler dies. Where do those demons go?

There's really only two ways they can go. They either stay together or they spread out. The demons don't die. They infiltrate someone else. I think they headed for the Middle East. And that hatred that where Arabs and Jews got along pretty well, In fact, during the Ottoman Empire, the Turks said, the only people that get along in the whole empire are the Jews and the Arabs because they're cousins, you know?

Then when the land issue came in, everything changed. And so it's just more concentrated there. And we see it. It's just stronger spiritual warfare. And so I think people, you know, Satan gets us one of two ways thinking that he's more powerful than God or that he's not around and he's not using his power. And I think a lot of people in America just they wouldn't even think about the enemy, you know, infiltrating their day and, and that. So anyway, I thought, I want to ask because I know you said when we were communicating, as I pointed out at the beginning, this is our second go-round here of the show. But you said you had some new stories.

And I wanted to ask because if you're even marginally paying attention as a person walking around and even listen to the show, if you're listening, you know, there's a massive conflict. in the Middle East right now. Yeah. As we record, it's since October, October of last year, we're almost a year into this escalation, and Iran's involved, around most recently this week, as we're recording this week, Iran attacked a U.S. naval ship. We're in the throes of war, whether anyone likes it or not. It's there. And this is an ancient war. We kind of just cover that. It's been going on for ages since Abraham and Ishmael. But as you said, there was times of peace, and now it's back to turmoil. Are there some things, but you know, you get ear to the ground. You said you said at the beginning

of the episode, you've got folks that are- They're probably emailing you, they're weird, blurry stories like we get them. Yeah, what's, what's, what, give us some the latest things that are happening with, with folks in encountering Jesus in a place of war. So, so a couple years ago, Joanna and I wrote a book, Women Who Risk Secret Agents for Jesus in the Muslim world. And one of the ones we wrote about was Shireen was called Trapped in Gaza. And to write her story, she said, pray for my husband. He's not a believer. It's never bought me a present for even on our wedding day, anniversary birthday. Not really a good guy. Pray that he'll come to faith in Christ.

We wrote that in the book. Stop here. Pray for Mohammed. And a lot of these stories were saying the name and it's Mohammed. And it's the most prevalent name. But anyway, so this Mohammed in Gaza comes to faith in Christ a couple of years after people are praying. And we were privileged.

Joanne and I were to pray with him on the phone. And guys, it was legit. This guy was crying. He was overwhelmed with his sin. He loved Jesus. And I mean, he didn't have a vision before he came to faith in Christ, but he had one after he came to faith in Christ. And he said, Jesus appeared to him and said, you're my man in Gaza. Wow.

Need the people to me. So this guy started growing. I mean, some people take off in their Christian faith, kind of like you're rumbling down the, you know, the jet. way, he just took off like a rocket. And he's studying. He's one of our guys is disciplining him. He's sending me Bible texts. And I remember one day I said to Joanne, some of the things that he writes about, I think pastors and churches here wouldn't write to that depth. I mean, he is unbelievable what God has done in his life so fast. And so I got a hold of Mohammed when I started getting these texts. And I said, Muhammad, who is writing these? Are you getting these?

off the internet and he goes, I write them, Tom. And I said, you're writing these texts. These are amazing. This is unbelievable. And he said, well, I hang out with my four best friends every day. And I thought, well, who is four best friends? Does he lead some other Muslims to Christ? I said, who are your four best friends? And it goes, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. I said, okay, man, gotcha. Gotcha. And it ends up the guys going deep. Well, on October 7th, when the world is changing, and Israel got about two hours of sympathy, and then anti-Semitism just burst out like geysers around the world. Muhammad is in Gaza, and he's texting me.

And he said, he lives in Con Unis, which was the refugee camp where all of that started kind of was mastermind. He said, Hamas has us on the street cheering for all the people they've captured the Israelis. He said, and I'm crying. I have tears coming down my cheek because no, human beings should be treated like this. This is horrible. Pray for these people. And then he said this, tell Israel to look in the city below the city. Look in the city below the city. Well, we knew there were tunnels. We knew all about that from going into Gaza. We didn't realize that it was bigger than the subway

system in London. Wow. And so Muhammad is giving us bird's eye view of what's happening and telling Israel where to look. And I mean, they keep us updated on what's happening. They don't, they don't hate Israel. They wish they could work in Israel. But it's horrible there. I mean, Hamas not care about their people. Who knows with the ones that have been captured? Oh, my gosh. Just can't imagine what they've all gone through. And I think Tom folks forget that like there is a huge Christian population in Gaza. So there are a ton of Christians, Arab Christians that live there that are really trapped between this geopolitical and this geopolitical war. I mean, the human cost is exceptional. It's three main churches there in Gaza. And then there's a lot of former Muslims that have come to faith in Gaza.

It came to faith in Christ in Gaza. And Mohammed just gives us a commentary. He tells us what's going on. He tells us who's come to faith in Christ, what they're doing. And, you know, at one point it was so bad guys that they just didn't have a place to go, the family. And they couldn't, there's no tents. They're just out there. And so we thought we're going to send him some money and try to get him out. We did. We sent them some money that were going to go through Egypt.

We don't hear from them for three, four days. And finally, they get a hold of us. And they said, we hope you don't mind. but we decided we just can't leave our people. God has us here. God's told us we're here to reach the people for Christ. We can't leave. It is awful.

Pray that we survived this, but we're staying. And these are people in the front lines talking about 20 to 30 new believers that they have brought to faith in Christ during the most horrible time of their lives. And so they're heroes. They're heroes of our faith,

and they are serving Christ with their whole heart. It's kind of like, it's like human beings are kind of designed to live at high stakes, you know, and I think we come alive when the stakes are high.

I think those are some of the movies we love. It's like, it's like the zombie apocalypse and everyone's banding together to try to survive, you know? It's like, there's something in us that when reality hits,

we can sleep, we can go to sleep and be awake and doing life. But when the stakes are high, you know, we flip a switch. All of a sudden, everything's important. Yeah, it's so true.

Yeah. One of the guys that Muhammad led to faith in Christ, Mohammed said, Amir lost his life. He was in a refugee camp. And there's no separation. You may be, you may live in one apartment,

and then, you know, terrorists lives right next door to you. Hamas. There's no separation. So anyway, he was killed. And Muhammad found him. And he said, yeah, he's,

He's dead, but he's with Jesus. And he said he had a Bible on his lap when I found him. And he said, I know he's safe. I know he sound. He's with Jesus. And I thought, wow, what a reality check that is to see that kind of faith. So, hey, Israel has suffered. We pray for the IDF.

We pray for the Palestinians. I want nothing to do with this. There's a lot of good-hearted Palestinians. I don't want anything to do with this. And there's a lot of believers. And there is that secret church like Muhammad and Shireen and some of those. I had one last question. It sounds like the dreams are similar.

Are the visions? I'm kind of curious more about the visions. Are they, can you describe those a little bit more? Are they different in how they kind of go down in the stories that you hear? They are. One of the most radical villages in the West Bank, Judean Samaria, is Salfit. Salt Feet is right across from Ariel, which is a Jewish settlement. It's the largest city in Jewish city in the West Bay.

Anyway, there was a young girl in Solfeet, Muslim, that has a vision of Jesus. And he keeps telling her that he loves her, all of this. And she doesn't know anything about it, but she finally gets on the Internet. Somehow she gives her life to Christ, but this is how it happened. she like people talked about their dreams kept having dream of a yellow house and so she just would look in her village is there a yellow house there's no yellow house what what is this so she's having friend having coffee with a friend one day and says i just have this weird dream and it's nothing it's just this house and it's yellow and the woman says tell me describe it to me and she describes it what it looks like

and she goes i know where that house is it's in the next village it's like one mile away. You can walk there. And so this girl walks there. Here's this Muslim girl. Why am I having these dreams? And she goes to this house. There it is. And she's standing there just looking. And this man walks out the front door. And he says, can I help you? And she said, no, I'm just, for some reason, this house was in my dream. This house was in my dream. And he goes, oh, it was. And she said, yeah, it was. and he said, have you had any other interesting dreams lately? And she said, yeah, I've been having some dreams that blew my mind. He said, why don't you come in and let's have some coffee, takes her in?

It's an underground church for Muslims there and she comes to faith in Christ. God did show her the person. He showed her the house and it was this vision so she could describe it and she gets there. And as far as we knew, she was the only believer in Saul Feet for a while, let her sister to faith. in Christ and others and away the gospel goes. That's how Jesus does it. I love it, Tom. Dang.

It's powerful. It's convicting. It's also so encouraging, Nate. I think it's just felt some encouraging to our faith. I mean, the reality is in the West, too, Tom, there's a lot of folks that were cessationists that believe that any kind of miracles, the miraculous, sort of ended with the apostles, right? And since then there's been nothing.

So this is all, you know, just. in their mind would be wouldn't be not real or or hogwash or right and it but the reality is is that God is moving and active and he cares loves so incredibly deeply I mean unfathomely deeply for his for his people he shows up in ways where people

where people can't necessarily like you maybe maybe Tom Doyle could slip in there like a ninja but you know there's not a lot of folks that are going to be able to get there and and he's he's pursuing his children. And I, man, it is, yeah, like Nate said, convicting and eye opening, but also just encouraged, I mean, it just, there's so many aspects of the nature of God that we are, you can glean from, from these stories and these conversations, right?

It is, um, fathomable is love for us. And I, you know, I, yeah, I love your, love your story about the miracles, because I've told them the show, I've seen someone when I was at Wyoming, I saw some miracles. And the day that it happened, it was very much the same. I was probably the worst version of myself and prayed and didn't believe God was going to do anything and then I saw God did the miraculous. That's the short part of the story.

But it's always a great reminder that it doesn't have anything to do with us. It's all to do with him, right? It's so true. And you know, you think about it, it's not God's will that any should perish, but all should come to faith and knowledge of the truth. So it's up to God.

Everybody received Christ, the Savior. Absolutely. That's what the goal would be. But one fifth of the world, the largest unreached people group, are Muslims. And he hasn't forgotten about them. He's active with them. They are responding. And they are open. And we need to pray more. And I think years ago as a pastor, gosh, we back in the 90s, I remember they prayed, pray through the window, prayed through the 1040 window, and all these things people are praying for. and now it's happening. We're seeing this.

More Muslims have come to faith in Christ in the last 10 to 20 years than in 1,400 years. Something dramatic is happening. For the Muslims, this is the Great Awakening. We are privileged to be a part of it. So it's ugly out there. The news, there's polarization, social media is bad. Even Christian groups are fighting and all that.

But the kingdom of God is rolling. This is like one of the finest hours that people are willing to die for their faith. So anyway, we can sit there and poo-poo it, but man. It's Matthew 9, right? The harvest is plentiful. Laborers are few. Hey, Tom, I'm thinking about something here,

and after your episode, I was wondering if, we don't have to put this in the episode if you don't want, but I think it'd be cool to ask our listeners to pray for you right now with what you're going through. And I think that'd be pretty powerful. if you wanted to share a little bit about what's going on your life and then we could pray for you as well as much as you want to yeah yeah no we're hey the doyles what you see is what you get you know we put it out there so unbeknownst to us found out that i have stage four cancer it's in the bladder

and the prostate and it spread to the lymph nodes and it's kind of shocking to hear that but yet on the other hand you know who do we put our faith and trust in in christ he's got her days numbered. So we've been privileged to put together a team of people praying. We just do a text with updates on it or anybody that wants to know what's going on and what they can pray about. And so we do that and people get a text and then they pray and we're thrilled. And, you know, because we work around the world, guys, it's a blessing because people are praying in Lebanon or they're praying in South Korea, you know. Pakistan all over the place. And when believers come together to pray like that, it's a little

slice of heaven because we know in heaven it's going to be every tribe tongue and people group around the throne. And so we do ask people to pray. We're asking God to heal me. But what we're also doing this too, we work at the persecuted believers in the Middle East. And we have never once heard them when they were in a trial, when people were being killed or arrested or whatever, we've never heard them say, Lord, please, would you stop this trial? They always say this, Lord, would you teach us everything you want us to know? You've allowed it. You could have stopped that. What do you want us to know? What do you want us to learn? So that's what we're praying right now. Whether I make it or not, we're praying that we have a couple more decades of

ministry, but we didn't know what plan is. But so that you would offer it to your listening. to pray. That's amazing. Thank you. Yeah, no problem. And I know our listeners will and we've developed a kind of a community here. I mean, just incredible. You have a, you just have a way of, you don't even have to say anything. It's just you can see it in your, just how you handle yourself and hold yourself. So thanks, Tom. Thanks for doing what you do and sharing your stories. And I know it's going to be encouraging to a lot of our listeners. And I'm glad we got to do this again. It's funny how sometimes you, like you said, you know, whether it's a little thing, you, you lose your laptop or you, you know, you decide you want to convert to Christianity and you might not make it, might not make it home. I mean, it's amazing how these little, little trials and big trials in our lives will, are the things that really changes, you know.

It's true. And actually, I'm grateful, Tom. We're grateful that we lost the first one. Yeah. I'll get to spend an hour with you, man. Love to take some listeners over there too as well. I remember wanted to, wanted to reach out, you know, initially

because of your work, but it's been such a pleasure. Like I, you know, first time we dropped the ball with the with losing the episode, but I mean, what a treat to get to do this just twice. I can say for me, it's profoundly impacts,

impacting my faith, just hearing, just hearing the testimony. I mean, that's what it's, testimony is really just your story, right? And there's nothing more powerful than story. but to be able to relay these stories of of god and i think just the the idea that the god to create the universe and holds it in his hand and sovereign over all this you know cares about all the little things and and and the people that haven't been reached people behind enemy lines behind in these spaces that would would seem to be unreachable it's not it's not too far for him so true so true well i'm

humble to be with you. And, you know, in honored, really. In Hebrew, there's no word for coincidence. Not such a word. And I think there was a reason that God wanted us to take a mulligan on the, you know? And also, another thing, I think that's something that's exciting is if Christians get their worldview from the news and the steady diet of Christian persecution and all these things going on, the thought is we're just out there getting creamed. We're just getting beat up. And the kingdom of God is expanding faster than ever before martyrdom. Oh, yeah, way up. But when you look at, when you look at, you know, evangelism and persecution, they're like twins.

They grow together. So, yeah, pretty tough things going on. But Jesus is on the throne in his kingdom. That's right. So it was an honor to make you. Thank you. Thank you. We'd love to, you know, point our listeners to where, to your.

books and to what you're doing, a website, and obviously pray for you, anything else that you would like to pitch or put out there. Go ahead. Sure, yeah. Yeah. Hey, look at I Found the Truth.com. These are former Muslims giving their testimonies. Started real slow when we started doing it, the videos, and I mean, we have a few thousand that we'll look at it a month, but started growing, growing. Now I think it's like a million and a half people are viewing the videos each month and questions from Muslims and Christians are excited. They're praying for Muslims to come to faith in Christ. So it's all good. It's all good stuff. Amazing. I love it. Obviously, you can find your books out there as well and support Tom. And thank you again for coming on our show.

Sharing, yeah, just breathe in some life into Luke and I've been doing this for a while. And sometimes it gets, you get into a routine. You know, like we all get into a routine and you forget. Like the goal was to try to figure out and get better answers. And it's always good to, like you said, with the news. And all the narratives going on, it's easy for Christians to get sucked into an unhealthy view of what's happening in the Middle East, you know? So true. That's right.

Yeah. So true. Tom, keep us updated. Okay. Just say with us. And then I know we've been, I've been emailing with your son too. So we'll make sure he stays on us about what we can do to help. Anything we do to help across whatever.

Yeah. Let us know. Whatever we can do, Tom. All right. We're here for you, man. Sounds good. Thank you. Thank you.

Thanks, brother. This is, yeah. What a time, man. This has made my day. I mean, made my week. It's Monday. So it's made my week. It's a month.

It's tough to top. Could it be tough to top. So, yeah, appreciate it, brother. Thank you. God bless you guys. Thank you. Great work you're doing. Wow.

Thanks, man. Thanks, Tom. Appreciate it. A good day. All right, brother. Yeah. Bye-bye.