Blurry Creatures - EP: 289 The Yeti Files with Graham Hoyland

Episode Date: December 24, 2024

Join us on Blurry Creatures as we welcome renowned author and adventurer Graham Hoyland to delve into the enigmatic legend of the Yeti. From scaling the world's tallest peaks to uncovering hidden truths in remote corners of the Himalayas, Hoyland brings firsthand accounts, historical insights, and scientific curiosity to the table. Could the Yeti be more than a myth? Find out as we explore the blurry line between folklore and reality in this captivating episode. Video Available Early For Members! https://blurrycreatures.supercast.com/ COSTA RICA TICKETS! https://www.eventcreate.com/e/costarica2025 You can get our book of Enoch here: https://amzn.to/3xriiUB Socials instagram.com/blurrycreatures facebook.com/blurrycreatures twitter.com/blurrycreatures Outro Song: On the Run by TimeCop1983 Special Thanks to our Platinum Members! Joshua Drummond Maureen Munoz Amber Freeman Nicolle Benz Zach Mills Adam Dougherty Desiree Nichols Kate Logan Kent Denmark Michelle Watkins Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Rough Greens really made a difference in their energy levels and the pep in their step. So if you want to do what we did, you can get a free jumpstart trial bag for your dog today. Just cover the shipping. Go to roughgreens.com and use discount code blurry. That's RUFF Greens.com discount code blurry. Rough Greens makes any dog food better. I met a Sherper near Everest. He was a yak-hurder, this guy, Sonam. One night, He was sitting at the campfire with his friend near the mouth of the cave. And something came. They were frightened and they crawled into the cave.

And they heard the bellowing of their yaks, the screaming of the calf. And slashing, biting, tearing noises, terrible stench of blood and dung. And they, of course, were terrified and thought they were going to be attacked by the monster yet next. Now they called this thing Yeti. Quite clearly he said this was Yeti. In the morning they crawl out the cave and there's just a pile of bones, intestines, dung and their yaks have been slaughtered and eaten by a large, aggressive animal. Now he told me this story and said this was Yeti, or Yiti they pronounce it.

And so we were trapped on the wrong side of the pass. And I thought, oh dear, we haven't got enough food, people will start dying. shortly and we can't get out until next spring. So I cast around, asked one of the yak herders, and a 19-year-old girl who was feeding her child said, I will lead you up this hidden valley where Westerners haven't been. We can get out back to safety that way. So we set off, she was feeding her baby under a rock. When I glanced over and I saw these huge footprints, bigger than a human's footprints, with clearly defined toes. When I saw the tracks in Bhutan, I was really scared. I had. to tell you. I was worried. I looked around. We were in a blizzard and I thought, is there a beast

stalking me? Is there something I can't see that is going to attack me? Steve Berry, he saw a Yeti. He saw it standing, he said maybe 200 yards away facing him. He said its body was covered with hair, it was standing on its hind legs. The face was hairy and it was looking at him. He could see teeth. He could just see teeth at 200 yards. Pete Berry believes these. He's He saw one. All the Sherpers in the area talk about these animals as something to frighten their children with. Don't go out at night. Don't walk in the dark.

You will be eaten by a Yeti. And so when I saw these footprints, I thought, this is the monster that Steve has seen. I have to be very careful here. I have people I'm responsible for. We could have slaughter here. The history of our earth is so different from what we can imagine. Joy to join. Smithsonian that if they found out about a large skeleton somewhere was to go get it.

I'm going to assume at least one person is right, because if one person's right, it bust the paradigm. It all goes back to the fallen chair. And the problem with the modern day church, they have a very truncated view of the supernatural. This backdrop that's just pregnant with all kinds of meaning associated with this Mount Herman event. And this guy defects from the kingdom. That's a big deal. All right, we got a fun episode for you guys out there today. This one's with author and adventurer, sailor, producer, Jack of All Trade,

Graham Hoyland, British guy who has been all over the world, seen wild stuff, and he wrote a book about the Yeti. He was out there looking, found some footprints, goes into the stories, talks to the locals, and it's a fascinating story about, you know, the big white-haired Sasquatch creature. Graham is one of one. We've been trying to track him down. He's been sailing all over the world.

Like the last time we tried to get him on, he was sailing to Greenland and he was gone for a month. But, I mean, this guy has worked on all seven continents, done stuff for BBC, Discovery, Travel Channel, NBC, has been to Antarctica. The shores of Antarctica to the peaks of the Himalayas, climbed Everest. Yeah, he's the 15th Brit to ever climb Everest.

And right now he's currently at seven C, seven summits. He's doing it all. And it's such a cool story because Graham's book, My mom gave me Graham's book, and I'll tell, and I talk about this on the episode, but she handed me this book about the Yeti. This is long before Blow Your Creatures' name, because, you know, I had this interest in Bigfoot. This is how this whole thing started. It's meant to be. It is meant to be, but it always wanted to talk to someone or even do an episode on the Yeti since we started this, right?

And Graham seemed to be the guy. He has first-person experience with tracking and then also potentially being tracked by a Yeti, finding evidence, finding footprints. And he wrote a book on it. and he's a fascinating, fascinating guy that seemingly has been everywhere and done everything, including what he believes to prove the existence of the abominable snowman or what the local was there called, Yeti. Yeah, we're excited about this sort. It's fun.

It's a little bit different than normally. And we're just going to ask Graham some questions about his life and travels and what he's seen out there. If you want to become a member of a podcast and help produce the show and get extra perks, go to blurrycreatures.com slash members become a member. Got a lot of extra things happening lately. About to hop into our studio, about to have a new, awesome platform of Supercast and all the perks and back in ways

that you can connect with other members. And people who love our show and ask questions, it's just like a cool community that's happening here on the podcast and we give you guys avenues and channels to communicate. Once again, Blurriercruits.com slash members. Let's get Graham on this one and talk about the Yeti.

Are you Yeti, Lou? I'm ready. Ready's a Yeti. All right, welcome back to Blurry Creatures. Welcome to the show, Graham Hoyland. Graham, your best-selling author, mountaineer, sailor, and just all over the world. You have an amazing story and energy to get out there and see all the weird, blurry stuff. One of the most blurry creatures is the Yeti, and that's why you came on the show today, mainly is to talk about your book.

Yeti, which, you know, you're up in the mountains and you see the tracks. And we talked about pre-roll talking about Everest and all these expeditions you've been on. You actually saw these footprints. And I think that's an amazing journey to actually see these things. And what was your mindset before this? And then actually seeing these things in reality. And welcome to blurry creatures. Well, thank you very much for inviting me to your fascinating podcast. This story for me starts a hundred years ago on the slopes of Mount Everest. My cousin, Howard Somerville, went out to do the first climb in Mount Everest with George Mallory, who you may have heard of.

And it was George Mallory who first saw footprints of the great hairy preacher that his shurpers told him was called the Yeti. And so I heard these stories from my uncle. I went hunting for George Mallory, and of course we found his body in 1999. But I was still curious about the Yeti. And so I went back to Bhutan, where there had been sightings of Yetis, and found myself being pursued by one. It's a crazy story. We talked to pre-roll, Graham, but my mom gave me your book.

I mean, this is a few years back, and I read it. And it's amazing to have you on because you are, you saw footprints and you, as you said, were pursued in places that you were in the Himalayas and you were pursued by a Yeti, but you were in places that maybe non-Western had been before, just to kind of place some background on you in case our folks and listeners don't exactly know who you are, but you are the 15th Britain to climb Mount Everest. You have something called the Seven Seas and Seven Summets Project. So you're an adventurer, Graham.

You've climbed Everest, and this is where our story is starting. but your goal is to climb the highest mountain on every continent and also sail all seven seas. I think you're, what are you five summits and five seas? You're pretty close, I think, at this point, right? Yeah, I just crossed the North Pacific and South Pacific. And so I have one more ocean to cross and I have two more mountains to climb. Two more. Yeah, you know, and I guess that's a lot of people who, you know, get out there and explore, see things.

they can't explain. I think a lot of people share parts of your story. Obviously, you've traveled more than most. And I think that's when, you know, you start to realize that we don't get the full story. We don't really actually know what's out there. There's a lot of places in our world that people just don't go.

And then you see something that's supposedly a myth and you have to kind of rewrite in your mind what exists and what doesn't exist, right? Exactly. The reason I became interested in the Yeti is not only had my uncle told me about this hairy beast in the Himalayas.

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Start comparing hundreds of sites with kayak and get your trip right. Kayak, got that right. I think it was Henry the Navigator's men in the 5th century. reported the gorilla, the mountain gorilla, reported this hairy, manlike monster, and no one believed them for centuries until 1909 when the gorilla was actually finally discovered. So I thought if the gorilla was denied by scientists, why not the Yeti? So I thought, I'm going to go and hunt for the Yeti in Bhutan. Tell us the story because it's fascinating and it's a big part of your book, but why Bhutan? And then tell us how this thing unfolded for you

in finding out that you were trailed by the creature you were looking for. The reason I went to Bhutan is a friend of mine had seen and photographed strange footprints in the snow very high up in Bhutan, very close to the world's highest unclined mountain in Bhutan. He showed me these pictures

and they're quite extraordinary, big footprints in the snow at around 17,000 feet. and he, my friend Steve Berry, is absolutely convinced of the existence of the Yeti. He said, what else would make these tracks? No men went up this area. And he said, go and look in that part of Bhutan with me. And so we did. We set off Steve Barry and I went into this region of Bhutan,

which hasn't really been explored by Western people. He suffered an accident and his back was hurt. So I took over the expedition and led a group of people over a pass and into an area where Westerners hadn't been. Now, unfortunately, there was then a huge snowfall and we were trapped on the wrong side of the pass. And I thought, oh dear, we haven't got enough food and people will start dying shortly. And we can't get out until next spring. So I cast around, asked one of the yak herders, and a 19-year-old girl, yak-herder who was breastfeeding her child, would you believe, said,

I will lead you up this hidden valley where Westerners haven't been. We can get out back to safety that way. So we set off and she was literally breastfeeding her baby under a rock. when I glanced over and I saw these huge footprints, bigger than a human's footprints, with clearly defined toes. That's great. There's somebody else that story. That's crazy.

You find she actually will lead you to safety. There's that famous incident, Diatlov Pass, where those people were kind of the similar situation. Yes. They supposedly took photos of this thing. And then the middle of the night, they get attacked by something. What do you think about that story? I mean, because that's the only thing we've really talked about on our podcast was that whole incident.

It's a wild story. It kind of reminds me of that. Well, the reason I thought that yetis might exist is I met a Sherpa in Nanchi Valley near Everest, and he told me how a Yeti had come and killed several of his yaks. He was a yak herder, this guy, Sonam, and yaks are the large hairy cows. that you get in the Himalayas and the Sherp has found them. One night he was sitting at the campfire with his friend near the mouth of the cave and something came.

They were frightened and they crawled into the cave and they heard the bellowing of their yaks, the screaming of the calf and slashing, biting, tearing noises, terrible stench of blood and dung. And they, of course, were terrified. thought they were going to be attacked by the monster yet next. Now they called this thing Yeti. Quite clearly, he said this was Yeti.

In the morning, they crawl out the cave and there's just a pile of bones, intestines, dung, and their yaks have been slaughtered and eaten by a large, aggressive animal. Now, he told me this story and said this was Yeti, or Yiti, they pronounce it. And so when I saw the tracks in Bhutan, I was really scared. I have to tell you, I was worried. I looked around. We were in a blizzard, and I thought, is there a beast stalking me? Is there something I can't see that is going to attack me? And you guys never ended up seeing anything other than footprints, correct? Because at this point, you guys didn't. Does she lead you out of the valley? And you guys get out of, I mean, obviously, you don't get snowed in for a season. But at that point, do you have any more an encounter with any evidence of this creature? Or do you feel like it was, do you think it was following you all to potentially grab a yak?

or one of you guys? I'll tell you what I think. I told you about Steve Berry, the leader before he imaged his back. He saw a Yeti. He saw it standing, he said maybe 200 yards away, facing him on a footpath,

a narrow footpath. He said its body was covered with hair, it was standing on its hind legs, the face was hairy, and it was looking at him. He could see teeth. He could just, Just see teeth at 200 yards.

So Steve Berry believes these absolutely without doubt. He saw one. All the Sherpas in the area talk about these animals as something to frighten their children with. They say, you know, don't go out at night. Don't walk in the dark. You will be eaten by a Yeti. And so when I saw these footprints,

I thought, this is the monster that Steve has seen I have to be very careful here. I have people I'm responsible for. We could have slaughter here. Yeah, we talk about mostly the big hairy beast that we talk about is Bigfoot. Do you believe that Bigfoot and the Yeti are related? Because it sounds like Yeti's a little bit more,

the North American Bigfoot stories are a little more sometimes friendly. It's a mixed bag. Sometimes they're scary. But Yeti, it sounds like you don't want to run into one of these guys. Do you think they're related? And do you think that Yeti is pretty much just doesn't want to be bothered? And it's not a good sign if you see him. I would say the Yeti and the Bigfoot foot are related.

I mean, clearly they are around about seven feet tall, their hair covered, they stand on their hind legs, and they are equipped with large teeth. I wouldn't say the Yetis are ever described as friendly. They're always described as a killing machine. Yeah. Big enough to take on a male yak and kill it. If there is a relationship with these animals,

and they seem to live in similar terrain, that's to say up in the mountains in heavily wooded areas with snow. I would say the animals are probably related possibly there are a throwback to a time when humans were also

many species like the Neanderthals perhaps there's some sort of throwback. I'm not sure what do you guys think? That's a great question. That's the whole podcast trying to figure out what these things are and we've been on it for about four years trying to talk about all the blurry

creatures out there. I don't know. It sounds like the Yeti is wanted for tax evasion, and he's left society. He doesn't want anything to do with us. You know, it sounds a little more animalistic, honestly. The Bigfoot stories sound a little more curious, like more humanesque. And the Yeti just sounds like a, you know, just a wild snow bomb on a monster, right? Yes. And I also say this, for our listeners, for context, like a, ameliac is a huge animal. As I'm looking here, they can weigh up to 2,200 pounds, and they can be up to 11 feet long and stand of 7 feet tall. This is what it says here on Google. That's a big animal.

That's just for scale. This is not taking down like a deer like we have here in the States. No, this is like a buffalo. Imagine the size of the creature you need to take down a buffalo and then dismember it and eat it. You know, that's a big, vicious animal. That's an apex predator. Do people describe it looking like, you know, more monster-like, or is it, you know, does it have more of a human face? There's a few videos out there.

There's one video that went viral on, like, someone's skiing, and they look like one was going behind a bush. There's not a lot of video footage of the Yeti. There's a lot more video of, like, Sasquatch. I mean, obviously, it's always debated if it's genuine footage or not. But you don't really get a lot of videos of the Yeti. Does it look like, because Sasquatch has more of a human face. Is it in that vein? Is that what people describe? I've spoken to a number of local people who have seen the Eti.

The Sherpa I mentioned, who had his Jacks Killed, Bhutanese people I spoke to, and Steve Berry, the English guy who saw one. And they describe them all very similar. They stand on their hind legs. They are hairy. They have a sort of golden coat, a yellowy golden-colored coat. They have big claws on their front hands. but the face is often described as human-like.

You know, they said it's like a man's face, but hair all over. That's not something you hear a lot with Bigfoot encounters, you know. Grandma was going to ask you, the beginnings of sort of the modern Western fascination with Yeti really is around the Eric Shippton. Correct. The photos that they took in 1951 that were on an Everest, unironically an Everest expedition, where they photograph these really odd footprints way up on those the black and white ones with the ice pick yeah i mean i've seen these are these are super famous they're on the men lung glacier uh yeah but i want to ask you though because you say you talked to shirpas and and and you spent a lot

of time in in the himalayas in catmandu in the nepal area around Everest you're a climber and explore and i know that part of the book when you wrote yeti um you know after having this experience you just recounted, you wanted to kind of figure out as much as you could, research as much as you could about the history. What did you find about the history of this creature, right? Because as you said, like the Sherpas and the locals, they tell their kids, it's like a boogie man story, except it's true. The realities are there are footprints and people lose yacks. It's not a fairy tale. What is the history of the local people say about, I mean, they believe this, I would imagine. Obviously, they tell their kids and they have experiences, but what did you find about sort of

of their experiences or the history of this creature when you were doing your research and interviews for the book. Well, if you go around the monasteries in Tibet and Nepal. Are your ad campaigns lighting up the dashboard, but not the pipeline? That's bullspend, and marketers are calling it out in. Dashboard, Confessions. My boss asks for results, so I opened my dashboard for the only positive-sounding metric I had. Impressions.

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the Sherpas clearly have believed this. I've had thought for as long as Sherpers have been in the area, which is 10,000 years. It's wild. There's a bunch of interesting stories. I don't know if you're familiar. You're familiar with the book The Long Walk as well. I was going to say. Graham, do you know? I am familiar. Yes, and he described seeing Yeti's playing in the snow, I believe. Yeah, it's really interesting to you because the whole book is not about that, right? It's this book is about essentially this escape, and some people have actually questioned sort of the veracity of the book. But regardless of that, this guy's story of them, of them walking out of a Siberian Gulag prison down to all the way across the Asian continent. And there's just this random aside.

And they're like, yeah, they were coming through the Himalayas and we saw Yetis, which is, I think the whole thing is fascinating. Especially for someone, you know, that's been there and had the footprints next to their expedition. Well, this is, this reminds me when we were kids, Luke, and you went to Disneyland and you went on the Matterhorn. Oh, my gosh. You know, the ride. and you see the Bono Snowman. Like, I remember being like six years old, Graham, and seeing that creature for the first time. And that's, it's one of those creatures that just like,

if you think about it, and Star Wars too, Luke gets captured by like the Yeti creature and dragged into the cave. I mean, you see it work into pop culture. And I don't think things get into pop culture because we invent them. I think people have had sightings and encounters and they've heard the legends,

and you actually see the footprints. When you see the footprints, How many tracks do you see? And obviously, nobody's taking their shoes off out there, you know? Right. Well, I'll tell you a little bit more about the occasion. You mentioned popular culture. Well, of course, Tintin in Tibet, a famous cartoon book,

he describes the Yeti, meeting the Yeti and seeing footprints. And so it's very much in popular culture in the West. But on the occasion, when I saw the footprints, what first alerted me actually. I forgot to mention this. When we came up this hidden valley with the girl leading, the young mother, with breastfeeding her child,

thinly his name was, we saw an old yak on its own in the valley and he was snorting with fear. Now they turn out old yaks when they're too old to work anymore. The people are Buddhist, so they aren't allowed to kill the yaks. and eat them. So yaks had just turned out. And this solitary yak was frightened. I could see it was blowing.

Its ears were back and it was rolling its eyes. It was clearly frightened. And then we were following the tracks. Our own footprints had destroyed them at the beginning of the tracks. But we followed them along for a few yards. and then our yaks, we had a herd of yaks with us behind. They came through and destroyed the remaining footprints. So we only had a section, I'd say about 20 yards long of the footprints, which I've showed you on my website. And so we couldn't pursue it any further. I was anxious to get the team over this pass and back to safety.

But I have to tell you, I believed in the Yeti. Absolutely in that moment. What would you say, Graham, was your level of fear here, right? Because you're a guy that is somebody at the tallest mountain on Earth. You're the one that you've done five of the biggest peaks on each continent. You're heading back as you were telling us pre-roll to the Himalayas, I would assume to climb, which is a bit of an adrenaline sport. You sail, which of course puts you in the teeth of danger from time to time.

Was it more curiosity or was it more terrifying to find evidence of something that has the reputation that it has to be sort of pacing. When I saw the footprints, I have to say I was frightened. And I would say if out of a score of 10 where 10 is naked gibbering terror, I would say it was a good eight. I was worried. I was frightened. I could see this other, this solitary yak was frightened.

It was looking around. I saw a large footprints. I'd heard all these stories. We were hunting for the Yeti for God's sake. I thought we'd found one. We had no means of protecting ourselves. We didn't carry a gun. We had no implements to fend it off.

So I'd say I was scoring a pretty strong eight out of ten. How the Sherpas reacted. Is it more of a like this is commonplace? Or was it like frightening as well for the rest of the... Yeah, they're frightened. They pointed. They said, Yeti, Yeti. And of course their warriors that the animal will attack the yaks.

the yaks are their family wealth, you know. So they're not so much worried about their own personal safety. They're more worried about the yaks being attacked and eaten. You're going to leave the chicken wing down and go for the turkey. Yeah, are these sightings in specific places in the world, or do people see the Yeti creature in unlikely places? All the sightings that I've recorded have been near or above the snowline in the remote parts where westerners don't usually go.

That's where the reports are coming from. Which would be a little hard. I mean, yeah, Bigfoot stories are all over the place. You know, you have them cited in like most unlikely places, but it sounds like the Yeti acts, a certain elevation and a certain climate. It doesn't want to run into anybody else. This is a fascinating creature.

I mean, think about it. And so the footprint, does it have five toes, six toes? Are they, is it a big, fat, wide foot? Or is it skinny long pad? Can you describe the actual foot itself? Yeah. It was bigger than a human's foot. It had five toes.

There's quite an indentation, so it seemed to be a heavy animal, heavier than a human. I mean, if you had to cast around for an explanation which wasn't a Yeti, you could perhaps suggest a bear. There's a Himalayan bear,

which has been known to attack Yetis. It's the right fur color. But they're pretty rare, too. And the Sherp has described something more manlike than a bear. They distinguish between the two, you see. And with the tracks, how far apart were they from each other? What was the gate on this thing? A stride longer than my stride.

I'm six foot one. So some creature are taller than me. I imagine something like seven feet tall. Again, you know, it could well be a bear. but most bears walk on their all fours on their legs. They don't tend to go up into their hind legs too often, I understand. So it's difficult to explain it away with a bear. Yeah, you would have it come down.

It's like a grizzly here we have in the States, right? Like they do get up when they are threatened or threatening, but they would put their front legs down or arms, whatever you want, whatever vernacular. They put it down to walk. They don't, unless it's in the circus, the bear's not riding a bicycle or he's not walking around on his hind legs like you know he's he's running around i think it's so interesting about i think it's really fascinating grab that you went

looking and then it found you which is a really a little bit scary sort of situation in the sense of you want a yetty hunt and the yet he's hunting you it sounds like a horror film um i did wonder who's hunting who here well that's kind of the famous that's the story behind the patterson gimblin film you know and they were out looking for this creature, and then they happened to film one walking across the creek, and it's a female, you know, interesting kind of turn of events there, where you be careful what you go looking for, because you just might find it, right?

Or it might find you. Yeah, yeah. Graham, after you finish the book in this investigation, where you, you know, you put the book, of course, is fantastic. I've read it. I can recommend it personally. But you put this out. Are you continuing in any investigation?

Are you getting reports sent to you? Do you come kind of a hub or a nexus, if you will, for people sending information about the Yeti? Or did you kind of close this chapter with the end of the book and you're on to the next thing? Well, I'm going out to eastern Nepal, very conscious that this is Yeti territory. And I shall be looking out for signs. I always ask the local guys first, the Sherpas, the people who look after the yaks. Have you had any sightings? Have your yaks been attacked?

and we're going to be climbing up over a pass between Kanchenchunga and Makaloo near Everest. And so that is just the kind of terrain that you see Yeti's in. Are you going to climb out there? What's the occasion? No, I'm leading a group of friends across, it's called the Great Himalayan Traverse from the east of Nepal to the Everest region. how do you protect yourself when you're out there i mean is it just you packing guns or what do you i mean how do you what happens if something comes around i mean what's the protocol well what i do

is what the british used to do in india they take a smear boy and they smear him with honey and they set him they set him outside the tent and all the flies go to him so my plan on this trip my plan is to find the juiciest um shirper and put him smear him with butter and put him outside my tent. And I reckon, I think that would give me a few minutes so I can get running. Yeah, bring some of your largest friends. Large friends only allowed to attend. It reminds me, I used to surf, Graham, before I moved in inland and got old.

But it was those thing, you never wanted to surf by yourself, right? I was just surfing California all the time and living in Australia. But you always want to go with someone, maybe you hoped you were just a bit faster swimmer than in case something were to, would have to, you would have to, occur. You're like, hey, you want to go surf again? Yeah, yeah, true friendship. I think I can swim faster than you. What about the blowback from the book? Obviously, on our show, but when you present things that are outside of the narrative, outside of the science, people get mad at you. People get angry. And while maybe a snow monster living in the mountains of Himalayas is a little

bit easier to, like, digest than maybe this North American bigfoot that's all over the place, Are you getting blowback or people skeptical or people kind of, how is the book perceived? People in the West who hear about the Yeti fall into two camps. They either believe, like my friend Steve Berry, or they are scientists and rational people, which I hope I am. And they try and find reasons. And I always tell them about the mountain gorilla, the fact that the gorilla was not believed here by scientists. for centuries. Anyone who mentioned a big hairy man in Africa was laughed at, but the gorilla was discovered in 1909. And so I think you must leave a little bit of margin that this animal might be

true. And so I say to my friends who are either skeptics or believers, I say, you know, look at the evidence, look at what we saw and make your own mind up. There is room for police here, I think. Yeah. I mean, the Yeti is kind of the gateway into all the weird stuff that we talk about, you know, because it feels like it borders between an animal and something undiscovered that it's intelligent. And a type of intelligence that maybe we don't see another animals. And I think that's the hardest part is the Bigfoot story. This thing is not acting like a normal animal. And so not only do you have to make room for a huge animal that exactly. And you have to kind of wonder, okay, what is it exactly? And how is it managed to survive this long without anyone bringing one down and pulling it out of the woods? And so it could bust a lot of paradigms, these topics. And I think for us, you know, these are some of the entryways that a lot of our listeners get into it. We can't tell you how many times, Graham, we've brought on people who are doctors or authors, and we just ask them about Bigfoot real quick. And they'll have a story.

Either they saw one or their friend or their parent or their grandpa is actually kind of fascinating how many people who don't have a huge interest in this subject will have an encounter. And it's like, what do you do with that? I mean, that's a bold thing to say, but people just casually throw it out there. Maybe it's more prevalent here in North America. It seems to be the most sightings around the world of this type of a creature. But you're up there in such a remote place, and you've got to think that people can't go, It's hoaxed. Why would you hoax in the middle of these conditions at this elevation in this weather? It just doesn't make any sense.

Yes. I mean, if we go back to the sighting that my friend Steve Berry had, 17,000 feet on an inclined mountain in the middle of a completely deserted region. No one is going to be dressing up in a big foot suit on that sort of terrain. So you have to explain it. What were these footprints? What's making them? and then you have to, if you've got a scientific mind, you have to come up with a hypothesis. Well, I offer you one, which is it could possibly be the Himalayan bear, but you then have to explain why is it on its back legs and why did the Sherpas describe it as a manlike preacher? You talked about the monasteries, and I remember watching a discovery show or something, and they had a skull and a hand of supposing Yeti. Did you see that by chance? Do you know what I'm talking about? I do.

These were fakes, I'm afraid. Oh, they were. The skull, the skull was taken to England, and it was given to the police. They looked at it for some time, and they said, we do not know this man, which is not surprising, considering skull was shaped like a sort of cone. The hair was analyzed on it, and it was actually goat skin. So the skull was a fake. The fingers were apparently human. So there are a lot of relics in these monasteries,

which claim to be a Yeti, but I think they're often not Yeti. Graham, you know, as much traveling as you've done and are still going to do and climbing and been to the remote places, does this encounter with the Yetis, does this open your mind to the idea that maybe there's other things that exist

that were sort of relegated to the realm mythology. Have you had any other encounters with things that were unexplainable? I mean, you end up in a lot of remote places, right? You talk about sailing the seven seas and the seven continents and the peaks and you end up in places that no Westerners been in the Himalayas, in Bhutan. Yeah, I mean, you're going to Antarctica. I think you're going to Antarctica to climb. These places that just people don't, there's not a lot of people or they don't go. Have you run into anything else that made your head scratch or made you believe that there are other things, we're going to talk about the mountain gorilla and Henry the Navigator, right? It took

centuries for the validation of their accounts. There was anything weird out there? Like other things besides the Yeti that have made you think like, hey, maybe this is something that could be real as well? I think when you cross the Pacific and I was in a sailboat and I was taking the night watch and you're out there, you're a thousand miles away from shore and other humans. And you're just sitting there looking up at the night sky and you know you see shooting stars and you realize that our human brain is only evolved to

accommodate Stone Age things and I'm quite sure there's very much more in the universe and we can begin to understand. Hamlet said there's more in the world and is dreamt of in your philosophy a ratio in other words

Hamlet was saying there's far more in this universe that we don't understand, then we do understand. And I think the Yeti and the other monsters that humans want to believe in, they are real inside our heads. I mean, I think it does, as Nate said, it does bust the paradigm, right?

You have this experience and then you go, okay, if this is real, then what else? You say you gotta have a hypothesis for, but maybe what else could potentially be out there? I mean, you just go back from Greenland. Tell us about, tell us a bit about Greenland, because I know when we were exchanging emails, I didn't want to let this go past,

But you were, you recently came back, we were going to record before you set sail. You came back, but you said there is a monster. Yes. Or a creature in Greenland that we hadn't even heard of. And this is blurry creatures. So we have to talk about it. Yeah, I've sailed in Greenland four times now. And this is a very wild country, close to you guys in the USA.

And it's very interesting sailing because you sail down the coast and you go into these fields. No people are there. You might see a snow fox. But the big monster in Greenland that I'm personally very frightened of is the polar bear. The polar bear is extremely dangerous and by law you have to carry a rifle whenever you go outside a village in Greenland. So when we went to shore, we used to carry a rifle and we were always on the lookout for polar bears because they're highly aggressive, they're hungry and they will just gallop towards. a bunch of humans who they take seals or something tasty. And apparently we taste of chicken.

Did you know that? Anyway. I didn't know that. I don't know if I want to find out either, but that's a good anecdote. It makes you feel a lot less safe out there, Graham, walking around if I'm a big chicken, too. Yeah, yeah, there I am, a big salty chicken. And the polar bears are hungry.

So I was worried about the polar bears. But then I heard of something even worse than the polar bears. There's a monster called the Tupala. The local Inuit people are terrified of the Tupala. What is... Can you describe this? What does it look like? I don't really know.

It's not... I think it's much more like a sort of almost a cross between a whirlwind and a giant animal, a monster, a very destructive animal, but it's kind of a mystical mixed up with a whirlwind or tornado. it's much more it's kind of ethereal than a polar bear which of course they understand polar bears they eat them you'll be amazed I went into a local

store a butcher's and there's all the usual meeks up there seal whale polar bear there was polar bear steaks that you could eat

so the local Inuit people are very familiar with the polar bear but this Tupilak is something else you should research it it sounds like the Tasmanian devil. Yeah, something like that. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it sounds a bit supernatural too.

Like it sounds like it's something that's a little more maybe less physical or maybe a mix between the physical and the supernatural. That's, yeah, I don't want to ruin one of those. I mean, did you try, you're leaving us hanging it? Did you try a polar bear? Have you tried it? Is it worth a shot? I didn't eat it personally.

They have worms sometimes, which probably, not a good idea to eat. We were catching cod, which the cod in Greenland was absolutely delicious. We were fishing for cod and it was on the barbecue in 20 minutes and that was great food. Yeah, the fish and chips. It's a staple in your neck of the woods. Yeah. I spent some time in England myself and buzzed around back in the day when I played music. So it's something I love about that part of the world is people get together and hang out in pubs all night and just talk about things and it's just a more more of a culture of sharing and opening up where i feel like here we're a little bit more skeptical we're a little more disconnected um there's just not as much that camaraderie

community and i remember thinking man you know it's late it's getting late and everyone's still here talking you know i'm ready for that what's going on here you guys are just up chatting all night long and uh and i think that's where like you know a lot of these stories of people hear it's based on sort of anecdotal evidence you see a footprint you know the whole bigfoot legend is just because they found those footprints you know around that job site and it's you know you have to kind of go there's something more to this than just a bunch of stories but that's where it starts you know it starts with us telling each other about these these legendary stories and i don't i don't understand why we are so quick to discount stories that we hear, you know, like, oh, that's, that's,

that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, yeah, yeah, well, remember, remember the gorilla is all I can say, you know, they were, we were, we were told for centuries that was a fake. Same with the giant panda that was, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, it was, in Asia, it was reported that they saw these giant panda bears, and everyone don't believe them either, and then they finally, like, I think wasn't it, wasn't in the, like, the 60s, they finally confirmed that there were, there were giant pandas. So same thing.

I think what's interesting about this whole subject and your podcast is actually people want to believe in monsters. I think it's a necessary part of the human psyche to want to believe in in these. It's it. But then you find out they're real. I mean, look at the Eddie. You know, there's, that's where it kind of, you jump the shark a little bit, right? It comes from like a, I want to believe to this is reality. And then you kind of have to re, I think you have to reorient your paradigm then to be like, well, this is real.

than maybe what else is real. I want to ask you something, Graham, this is not on the Yeti topic, but just, you know, someone that's done as much adventuring and mountaineering, sailing, been all over the place and had these, you know, a lifetime

and then also written, you know, five or six books. Like, how does it change your perspective? Like, if you were to give, you give out some advice, having done so much, seen so much, been to the summit of Everest, found the things you were looking for

on Everest and with the Yeti, would love some wisdom or just some thoughts on anything based on your experience. I mean, you have to come back and change. I know this, having been lived other places as well personally, and not done any of that stuff, but I feel like I've had my own experiences in different places in the world. It does change you in the way you look at things. Well, they used to say travel broadens the mind. And I think it does.

It makes you more accepting maybe of other people's cultures. And in the end, you realize that everyone wants to feel safe and look after their family, whoever they are. People are very friendly, I find, all over the world and accepting, if you let them be. But I'd say something interesting. I found that writing books does something really weird to your head. When you write about a subject, like Mount Everest, I've just written a biography of my uncle, Howard Somerville, who was the first climb on Everest was done with Howard Somerville and George Mallory. Writing that book really changes your brain in some way. It makes you think

differently about the subject that you're writing about. I can't explain it, but writing does something to your head. It's almost like you have to put yourself in a different, a bunch of different reader's mindsets, right? Like, how's this going to be perceived or how is this going to be understood? You know, you have to write to like an audience and you have to know who your audience is. And you can't, you've got to think about it from both perspectives, I would say, right? Yeah, so what you're talking about is you have to be objective. You have to put yourself outside your brain and think about a reader. I always, that's the first thing I think about when I write a book is who wants to read this? Who's my audience?

and then I had to try and put myself into their head. So maybe that's what it's doing to your brain. It makes you objectify maybe a very personal subject. Everest was a very personal thing to me. And I can now look at it more objectively. And so too with the Yeti. Yeah, Graham, was there any moments in all of your adventuring where you didn't think you were going to make it that moment or that time?

Yes, I was nearly killed twice on Mount Everest. once was in 99, no, 1993, we were coming down through the famous icefall and there were three of us on a rope and there was a big crack above us and a huge avalanche came down, thousands of tons of ice blocks and we just ran. We ran as fast as we could and I remember the blocks were licking at the back of my boots and I was running as hard as I could at high altitude and I thought I nearly died. then. And then bizarrely in the same place, within, I'd say 100 yards at the same place, coming down Everest in 2006, this time the ice underneath me collapsed. As I came down the ice four, which is like a whole bunch of tower blocks, apartment blocks of sized lumps of ice. These started collapsing underneath my feet. And so I think I was nearly killed twice. bizarrely within a few hundred yards.

Are you heading back? You're heading back to the same place for a third time? Third time unlucky, they say, don't they? I mean, what does that do? Quickly, though, what does that do to your psyche? Does it do anything? Does it change, having those experiences? Does it make you change your thinking or your perspective on anything?

I guess my philosophy has been trying to ring the most, out of my life that I possibly can. I want to ring every last drop out of my life. And I think I've been nearly killed on those two occasions. One sailing, I was nearly killed by falling overboard in Antarctica. But I think these things just make you realize, you know, you are pushing it now. You're pushing your luck. Maybe take it a bit safer next time. Yeah. I mean, as long as you don't see Donkey Kong throwing ice barrels down. You have to jump over those. That's kind of what I wonder if the Yetis don't want, they don't want people up in their territory. They're trying to keep you guys down the mainland. It's fascinating. Obviously, you've been to places like Antarctica.

And I think the problem with Luke and I run into a lot of our, in our channels, is that everyone, everyone sort of has, in the information age, has so much information, has come up with wild theories about everything. And what we try to do is obviously interview the experts and people who've written books and say, okay, you tell us. Like, what is it actually out there? I mean, I believe that people aren't just making up these stories about this Yeti creature, but, you know, people come up with wild ideas, and they're constantly pitching them to us, and I don't know how do you balance that. It's really hard to balance. Like, maybe that could happen. Maybe that does exist, but, you know, people will say there's these ice walls in Antarctica, and you can't even get there, and wild

claims like that. But you've been there. So what do you do when you hear wild claims like that? Well, personally, I believe in the scientific method. I think you think about something, you have a hypothesis, and then you test your hypothesis. So I thought about the Yeti, I hear these stories of a manlike beast. So my hypothesis was it could be a bear, a Himalayan bear. And so I tested the hypothesis by going to Bhutan and looking at the footprints, which did not look like a bear. And so I believe, you know, if you take stuff like the scientists do, test your theories.

But wild claims on the internet, I don't give much credence to. I got a hypothesis for you. Monty Python and the Holy Grail. Is that the best British comedy? Or top 10? Yeah. I would say it's one of the best. I love it.

I love the Monty Python. Have you found any coconuts in the Himalayas on the slope? For the horses. Where did you get them? Do coconuts migrate, Graham. We need to know. Only by sea. Well, you could, what a swallow may travel south.

Yeah. Because I love that film. I mean, in high school, I think I fell in love with Monty Python the Holy Grail. I must have watched it a hundred times. And then it's not often. We've had a few Brits on the show, which is fun. Yeah. Well, it's a very little, I'll tell you a very little known thing.

You may have known a certain resemblance to Michael Palin about me. I used to work as Monty, as Michael Palin's stunt double. I did his stunts. No way. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. You know all those things where he was slapping John Cleese with a fish? Yeah.

Yeah. That was me. You just have an affinity for pain, Graham. You just want to... Yeah, I just love it. I seek it everywhere. Oh my gosh. If it's hard and it hurts, I'm there.

Tell me when. That's it. You have a real connection to Monty Python, too. This is phenomenal. Oh my gosh. Yeah, what is that like? Yeah. Yeah, what was that like?

I feel like you've lived a hundred lives here. It's, you're just like, it'll be anecdotal. Yeah, I did stunts for... What were you like as a kid, Graham? Were you like this as a kid? Was just out there getting in trouble all day long? Yes, my mother said of me, bitterly, you're into everything, she said.

I was always crawling into cupboards and trying to figure out how things worked. Turned it off. Anyway, listen, guys, I'm going to have to... No problem. I'm going to have to go now. Yeah, I totally appreciate it. Yeah.

Before you go, tell our listeners where they can get your books and support you and follow you. And if you have any social media or anything like that. Yeah. If you want to look at my books about the Yeti and Mount Everest, you'll find them on grahamholland.com. Graham, thank you so much. Thanks for coming on our show. And you're king of the adrenaline junkie Britons. You know, that's what you are.

I love it. Thank you for the time. I think we really, we really do appreciate it. And I, it's been fun to go back and forth. And it's a pleasure, Graham. It's pleasure is all ours. Yeah. I'm glad we made it in the end.

We did. We finally got here. We finally got here. Be safe out there on those stories. We want to hear more stories. Yeah, good luck. Thank you.