Blurry Creatures - EP: 292 Trauma Based Mind Control with Fern & Audrey

Episode Date: January 7, 2025

This week on Blurry Creatures, we welcome Fern & Audrey, two courageous women dedicated to helping survivors of Satanic Ritual Abuse (SRA) reclaim their lives. In this powerful episode, they delve into the intricate and chilling mechanisms of trauma-based mind control, exploring how it’s used to manipulate and fragment identities. Join us as we uncover the darkness behind these tactics and shed light on the resilience of survivors fighting to reclaim their freedom. This is one episode you don’t want to miss.  COSTA RICA TICKETS! https://www.eventcreate.com/e/costarica2025 Get our Book of Enoch! https://amzn.to/4gpV4yZ New Episodes Drop Every Tuesday  Blurry Creatures Socials  https://www.tiktok.com/@blurrycreatures https://www.instagram.com/blurrycreatures  https://www.facebook.com/blurrycreatures/ https://www.twitter.com/blurrycreatures/ Special Thanks for Platinum Members!  Joshua Drummond Maureen Munoz Ambet Freeman Nicolle Benz Zach Mills Adam Dougherty Desiree Nichols Kate Logan Kimberly Lee Fayola Shakes Suzanna Wenzel Kent Denmark Michelle Watkins Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Luke so often, people email us and they have this story. They're out in their woods and they're looking in the bushes. and they go, what's that? And when you are pouring your dog food and your dog's bowl, that's the last thing you want to say. What is that? What is the stuff coming out of this bag? You know, I don't think a lot of us think about maybe what we feed our dogs.

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You know, I've got older dogs, Nate, as I said. And so, you know, since they've been getting rough greens with their food, I've noticed They have more energy. Their joints hurt less. They're older. I mean, they were talking 12 and 13 years old. And Rough Green's really made a difference in their energy levels and the pep in their step. So if you want to do what we did, you can get a free jumpstart trial bag for your dog today.

Just cover the shipping. Go to Rough Greens.com and use discount code blurry. That's RUFF Greens.com discount code blurry. Rough Greens makes any dog food better. Being in our body where Christ dwells is the most powerful. position for us in spiritual warfare. He gave us a body. That's what he says in Hebrews when Christ said that a body you gave me, he's speaking to the father. So therefore the body is important for us to be in it rather than up in the spiritual realm. We're to be here. Where Christ dwells in our heart

in the body is where we are the most human. We have emotions. We have thoughts. We have our will and our choices in our body. And that is what darkness is most scared about. When we understand our identity in Christ in our body and who we are, they can't touch that. That's why there's such a push to get out of your body, not be human, be transhuman, be above that, be spiritually above that. It really starts here as a human because that is the only species that is given redemption. When Fern and I stay in love, those entities hate that. They don't know what to do with it. They want to get far away from Jesus and His love.

They want to get far away from love. So when we stay in love, the person in front of us can connect to that love, and that entity has to leave. And that entity has to. The history of our earth is so different from what we can imagine. Joy to join. The Smithsonian, that if they found out about a large skeleton somewhere, was to go get it. I'm going to assume at least one person is right, because if one person's right, it's

right to bust the paradigm. It all goes back to the fallen chair. And the problem with the modern day church, they have a very truncated view of the supernatural. This backdrop that's just pregnant with all kinds of meaning associated with this Mount Herman event. And this guy defects from the kingdom. That's a big deal. All right, welcome back to blurry creatures. Today is a heavier episode, but not really. I mean, the subject matter is heavy, as always.

Sometimes we get into trauma-based mind control topics, SRA, you know, we did a member's episode about Bohemian Grove and some of things that go on there. Rituals, these elite occult practices, and everyone's like, oh, great, I'm turn this one off. No, don't turn it off. This one is, it's about, it's kind of dancing around those subjects, but it's also how people who work in this space help human beings come back and put themselves back together. And it's very encouraging interview we did with Fern and Audrey, who have an organization to help people who've been through these traumatic experiences.

Yeah, I love this episode. I think it provides a ton of context for some of the conversations we've had in the past, whether it be the children in the woods or that's the one that comes to mind or any of the SRA abuse, you know, this space. these are two women who have been working in this area for 20 years, helping people put their lives back together and get unprogrammed. And I think the platitudes of this conversation are so very important for contextual understanding of that this happens, that people get broken, and this is how you put yourself back together.

And this is how God feels about humans, about us. And it's, I feel like you scratched the surface. Yeah, we did. And it's a super, it's very encouraging. It's a very, it's hard to put encouragement and SRA programming the same conversation. But this is, these are two women who are on the front lines and they are pushing back to darkness. Yeah, you've got to have hope. And I think a lot of times, Google, not every episode we have out there ends with like the hope we try to.

But I think this is one of those episodes that really kind of puts a caveat on the top of why we do what we do and where we're. we are in this sort of raising the awareness of some of these blurry topics out there. But also that, you know, there are people out there who have conquered the darkness. And the darkness is vast and sometimes it's scary, but what we do here is we take a lot of heat from people from the subjects that we talk about. But I don't think we are on the front lines like these two women are. So if you want to get involved with what we're doing here, blurry creatures.com slash members become a member. We just upgraded to Supercast and we've got a ton of new things in the back end

for you guys to enjoy and we're going to be doing monthly AMAs and you can ask questions and those get upvoted. And obviously you get access to early tickets, events, merch discounts, no ads on the podcast, tunnel perks to help produce the show.

And as you can see, we got a lot of wild stuff happening here in Blery creatures and it requires a lot more people to produce the show now. So everyone jumping on the board, help us makes this thing go. That's right. So check it out. We, again, you get a private members feed, private community areas, and a lot, a lot more

perks. And this is how this is the juice that makes blurry creatures go. So we're grateful to all our members out there who support the show. Let's get Fernand Audrey on and let's get into this conversation about trauma-based mind control and the programming of humans. All right. Welcome back to Blurry Creatures, our guest today, Fernand Audrey. Thank you guys for coming on the podcast.

You're familiar with Dr. Michael Heiser, his work. You were on his podcast. Six times. Six times. Six times. Six times. And we had Dr. Michael Heiser. The Naked Bible podcast for those who don't listen.

And we love Mike here. Mike is a big part of the reason this podcast exists because he was the one who kind of tied the paranormal to sort of the ancient history, the Bible, and some of these theological threads that the church likes to sort of skip around. and he was sort of the conversation started there. And then that's how blurry creatures kind of became an idea into a podcast. But welcome to the podcast. Today we're going to talk about one of the tougher topics that we kind of tackle on our show, which is SRA, trauma mind control, all through a divine counsel worldview, which is, you know, why we talked about Heiser and a minute ago.

But welcome to the podcast. Ladies, thank you for coming on, Blurray Creatures. And right out of the gate, what are you? what are your thoughts on bigfoot ladies you know what we we live in the polkano mountains of pennsylvania and i have cameras up because i hope to see him all right i love it furne's in there she's like we're going to find him we're going to get them on trail cam right out of the game i love it so thank you very much for having us i have a non bigfoot bigfoot story but um so um my sons love your podcast and they love those you know bigfoot talks and

everything crypted. And so one of my sons had sent me a podcast. I don't know if it was yours or not. I apologize. But it was Bigfoot in Pennsylvania. And I said, okay, I'm going to listen to this. And I'm listening to it while I was putting up a jungle gym for my grandchildren. And it's getting darker outside. And I'm listening to Bigfoot in Pennsylvania. And I'm alone and I'm putting up this jungle gym and Bigfoot in Pennsylvania keeps ringing in my ears and I scare myself into the house and had to chuckle because my sons are funny and send me your great podcasts. Well, welcome. Welcome to the show. I know Pennsylvania's got a lot of blurry voters out there too, so not just blurry creatures. It's a weird place to be right now in America, but thank you. I just love that people have thoughts on Bigfoot.

You got cameras up. Listen, Fern, if you catch something, we need to be first on your list. Be like, very guys, we're going to let them know. But we're not here to talk about Bigfoot today. You guys have a very, very interesting ministry, vocation. And I want you guys talk about that. But what you do is you, for the last 20 years, you've been working with victims of what's called trauma-based mind control, which maybe think of like MK Ultra, right?

those kind of programming, government-based or abuse-based programming. You guys have been doing it for 20 years. As Nate said, you've been on, you were on Michael Heiser's podcast, Naked Bible Podcast, six times, and you use a divine counsel worldview that sort of informs and shapes the way you counsel and help people out of these situations and out of these horrible abuse. And this is the most skeptical people are in our space. You know, these stories, people can listen to Bigfoot stories, alien stories.

But when you start talking about SRA, people are very skeptical of this conversation. Yeah. Why do you think that is? And maybe we can get into some of the stories that you guys deal with to help people who, they're open to some of these other topics that we talk about, but then they just close the door when it comes to some of these traumatic experiences that people have had. They're not fun to talk about, but they're important because it happens and people are silently suffering. Yeah, I think it breaks their worldview bubble. I think it's like, are you kidding? Is this

true? Would our government do this? Did this really happen in the churches? Did this? A lot of our folks that come to see us were hurt in the church, not just Catholic church, not just a Piscopal church, not just in the church, you know, charismatic churches, NAR churches, fundamentally. churches. It just, it's, it's pervasive. It is the elite that they run into that. So I think what happens is that, um, sometimes it feels like when you get that phone bill, it's like the crash site document. You can't read it. There's a bunch of numbers, random fees, vague language, stuff's blacked out. You're like, what am I actually paying for? I don't know about you, but I like keeping my money where I can see it. I like to be simple. I like to be easy. I'm going to be thrown away money on big wireless

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It matters where you stay. Hilton, for the stay. It breaks their safety bubble of what they want Christianity to look like, what they want their religion to look like, what they want everything to look at like. And I think they just can't pause to get ready to help those out of the trauma. Because, you know, the people that have survived, trauma-based mind control. And I'll let Audrey give you the definition in a moment. But the people

that have survived trauma-based mind-mind control, when they're coming into our churches, when they're walking up to us at Walmart or sitting beside us at a dinner party, they're weird. They're chaotic. They're like, you almost want to just go peace out, you know, sorry about that, but I want my world to stay just like it is. Yeah. And I think we as the body of Christ need to look at that and say, what are we really seeing? And when we met Mike in 2010, we had the beautiful privilege of sitting with Mike from 2010 to 2017, seven years every fall for three days. Michael came and sat with us.

We recorded it. It's crazy recordings because everyone's just talking. It's just a roundtable discussion of the weird. And what that did for us was while it put wheels on Michael's thesis, it was like we were the first group he met with that would listen to him outside of academia. And so here he is with us. And he's like, oh, my word, you mean this really does have a place. meanwhile, because he was so into the fringe, you know, we could talk to him about what we do.

He wasn't wigged out. And he just put a stability on it and said, I get this. He was probably the first, you know, I would have to say Mike would never have called himself a pastor, but he was the first, you know, Christian academic that would sit with us and say, I know what you guys do. and I hear you and I'm with you I am so with you I did that for a lot of people and a lot of people who had weird experiences might kind of gave them permission

to believe their own stories and then did a lot of work to try to make sense of it and how as Christians we can have these discussions I think he provided context right the unseen realm of itself was providing context for the supernatural these things that that break a lot of paradigms

as Fernas saying I think that's the problem right is that we talk about this in the show all the time. Guys, like when you bump up against the offenses you've built for yourself and your faith because you have an experience, you see something weird, you have an experience of the demonic or maybe something as extreme as trauma-based mind control, what that happens to you or you encounter someone that happens to, it seems a lot of folks, knee-jerk reaction is to throw it out. This isn't a throw it out where, you know, I can't deal with, you know, on our show,

it's a UFO experience or something like that. I got to toss this out. or somehow this invalidates my faith. And can you explain to us what, you know, what you deal with 20 years? What does that mean? What is that? Yeah. So the definition that Fern and I use is for trauma-based mind control is repetitive,

trauma and abuse, a person indoors that causes him or her to be submissive to another in their thoughts, will, emotions, and choices. I can say it again if you want. Yeah. one more time for our listeners here. Sure. Yeah. Repetitive trauma and abuse, a person endures that causes him or her to be submissive

to another in their thoughts, will, emotions, and choices. Is this a little bit like Stockholm syndrome? Is that a version of trauma-based mind control? It is. And to normalize it, let's just normalize it. Sure. Yeah. What is it?

Yeah. What does it look like practically? So four years ago in the pandemic. it took literally two weeks for people to stay six feet apart and put a mask on their face because they were in fear that was the trauma that went across the entire world and people submitted their will not everyone people submitted their will and their emotions to stay six feet apart with a mask on their face and guys that actually is a bohemian grove ritual six feet apart with a mask on their faith 20 years in this you both of you

when you see 2020 happening is are you right away going oh my gosh this is like a mass psychosis event where they are 100% trying to you know mind control trauma program the masses the populace absolutely but what we what we thought was oh my word everything we have seen in a microcosm of individuals that sat in front of us, they have done and pulled off en masse. I mean, I think there was a lot of folks that saw what was going on, but not like not to the, sort of the minutiae that you would have,

because you see this on as, as. I think it depended where you lived. You know, we both grew up in California and- We weren't there in 2020. We weren't there in 2020, but just seeing our, you know, like our old communities, friends, and family and some other people just like having this crazy reaction versus a place like Tennessee.

I remember being in Florida at the time. I remember flying from Florida to California and it was a noticeable difference. It felt like you went from the sunshine in Florida. People kind of care. Most people don't care. People just live in life. And then you fly to California. It's like triple masks on. And it's like, well, I just flew it into a dark cloud. And you, I think a lot of people who were in the cloud didn't they just couldn't tell they couldn't see the sun they couldn't see outside of it it was all black and they just stayed in that fear bubble for like the whole year what is what what is then is is this bohemian grove this is this is the same so they just took a rich what I let you go yeah so so let's just say during that time period in 2020 I would say well you can confirm for but like 90% of

all of our survivors saw it right away and we're like I can't believe all these people are calling for this. So let's pause at their moment. Here we have, you know, the people that look crazy, they've got all this chaos going on and the churches don't want them because it's crazy. But they're sitting in front of us and they're saying, what is wrong with people? This is a Bohemian Grove ritual. They did this to us when we were six.

Six feet apart is how deep a grave is. And we were masked because we weren't allowed to talk. We were not allowed to have a say, a human. We couldn't be human. And we had to be, pretend we were dead in six feet apart from everybody. That was the mind control ritual that was reproduced in 2020. So this happens at Bohemian Grove. They take kids and they do a separation masking.

What kind of mask? You can look up in Google masks for slaves in the decade. decades and centuries, and they're very diverse. So it's just the kids then. It's not the adults are leading this event? Yeah, but think about that. All the adults wore masks too. So what I want to, the other thing I want to do is normalize is that so often when we're

thinking about trauma-based mind control, we're thinking about, we think the spiritual woo-woo-woo waves coming in, you know, all that kind of stuff and all of the, you know, demonic, you know, interjections and stuff like that. But the reality of it is, is it's much, it's much more physical, the physicality of it. There's the behavioral control, you know, you have to stay six feet apart. It's information control. This is all mind control, thought control, and to manipulate your thoughts. and then emotional control.

So you saw all of that during the pandemic. You also see it, and I'm going to blow your mind a minute, probably. Maybe not, you guys. But think about just positive confession of churches. And what that would do to if you, because if you don't stay in the norm of a positive confession in the church, the thought control and the behavior control, you go into anxiety.

maybe I'm not going to get the blessing of God Jesus if I don't do. Do you see how all of that is mind control? Yeah, it's funny when you talk about this, I see folks now in 2024 still masking, very rarely. But my thought is always that person got broken because we are four years out. It feels like the information, if you're not completely brainwash, some information is out there saying this is, This was planned. Obviously, all this stuff came out of a lab. It wasn't, all the lies that were told have all been exposed, it feels like. But there are still a portion of our population that right now in the fall, right now, fall, winter are walking around masked up.

And, you know, you go, like, there's no hope for that person. Like, if you're still doing that, if you're still driving your car with a mask on by yourself, you're not, there's not, yeah, I don't think you'll ever wake up. I feel like this was the biggest red pill for most people ever was suddenly the, they pulled the curtain back and sort of the agendas were exposed, right? Well, it feels like they've been bewitched, you know. They're terrified, though. Yes, it's fear. It's all fear. Like, don't touch me. I'm going to, like, I saw someone at Costco mask and gloves. And this is 2024. And you go, I don't know what you do for the, I mean, I don't know how you break out of that.

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have studied how the brain works how psychology works how to control a person um you know you can go to milgram experiment and look that up and all these different things and they've learned how to control human minds by manipulating the emotion of fear even what we see is there is there is is in the folks that we work with, you know, because they have, there's their multiplicity. They have different parts. We don't call them multiple identities. They're dissociative, and they have little parts of them. And those parts are, you can scare a child at four with a ritual and all the stuff going on at a ritual.

and that shuts down Brokhov's area of speech. And so then the child's silent. And so then they can't, they can never repeat that. And then it becomes dissociated. And so I guess what I'm saying is, is so often we're looking for the supernatural experience. And I want you to know we believe it's the supernatural. But this is my story of my paradigm shift with Mike.

It's going to surprise you. I was raised in the charismatic tradition. And working with people with everything that was in the modalities of that belief is what I was using, deliverance, all of the Miravingen bloodline, all of that. I used all of it. And then I met Mike. Audrey and I met Mike. And we sat and he sat with us.

and he said, but do you see they're trying to have, they're dehumanizing the child and moving into a Gnostic kind of expansion, transhumanism kind of a thing. And he said, the most powerful position is to be human. So what Mike did for us in his supernatural worldview, even though I was in it, that's my world, since I was 11 years old, that was my world, the charismatic world. the charismatic world, prophetic and all that. But Mike took that and just brought it right down to look at what a child does in response to trauma from fear. And when we shifted what we do in ministry from that perspective, it went quicker. It's still a journey.

It's not fast. It's still a journey to rehumanize someone. And the biggest part of that is they need people who will be human with them. And very honestly, not many people, Christians have busy lives and they don't want to take that journey with somebody. So mine was finding out from Mike, walking with Mike, that God wants a family. Yeah. Humans and being human is the most important position. Not the Elohim here, not the watchers, not the small G gods.

That the small G gods were upset. The bad guys were upset that human beings get to rule and reign. He showed us that that we could help rehumanize the victims of trauma-based mind control, who were held captive by the small G-gods. it was a game changer in ministry. Wow. It seems like that's all, a lot of what Mike talked about on our show is just that, you know, they're trying to corrupt humans any way they possibly can, you know, genetically, spiritually,

physically. You know, and if you think about back all these major events, it's like from the garden and on, we are altered when we participate in these rituals or we expose ourselves to, entities or we practice some of these forbidden, you know, things that we're, we're not supposed to get involved in. And I think that the church has done a sort of a disservice of almost making people feel guilty for being a human being, you know, like you shouldn't, you're not a human being. You're, you're this horrible wretch. And I'm like, is that, is that some sort of trauma? Like, because that, because.

Spiritual abuse. Yeah. Because see that, like Fern said, the most powerful position for us in the body of Christ is being in our body, which we can talk about that if you want to, being in our body where Christ dwells is the most powerful position for us in spiritual warfare. Oh, interesting. He gave us a body. That's what he says in Hebrews, when Christ said that a body you gave me, he's speaking to the father. So therefore, the body is important for us to be in it, rather than up in the spiritual realm, where to be here, where Christ, dwells in our heart in the body is where we are the most human. We have emotions. We have thoughts. We have our will and our

choices in our body. And that is what darkness is most scared about. When we understand our identity in Christ in our body and who we are, they can't touch that. That's why there's such a push to get out of your body, not be human, be transhuman, be above that, be spiritually above. that it really starts here as a human because that is the only species that is given redemption yeah and and why children are what's the ultimate goal yes that i was going to ask too like we're i mean from the bohemian growth standpoint can you like i know that there's probably a specific agenda there but like can you talk about what what the goal is with that ritual but then on a macro level it's probably multifaceted but like why trauma based mind control why why are what we call the elites this is

that happened to behemian growth that happened in 2020 why what's the agenda um or or end goal of of controlling folk i mean it's probably see there's economics and whatnot but it's got to be a lot deeper than that we're talking about mike heiser today right so it's got to be a much a much deeper thing so children have the innocence that darkness hates and they're most easily manipulated by emotion and they're most easily controlled so even when you look at 2020 with what happened with the children, and I have 12 grandchildren, not all of them were present in 2020, but the children that had to wear the masks in school, they were controlled so much in their mind by that, that it was terrifying for them. They couldn't tell if someone was nice or nasty by looking at their eyes

because they couldn't see their whole face. Yeah. That whole process of that year has documentedly shown that children in that time period have developmental delays. I mean, it goes in stages, but if you control the youngest generation, they're controlled when they're adults. Yeah. Yeah. What is the figure is like what, 70 to 90% of our communications nonverbal too, so you are. completely cutting off the legs of a child if they're not able to get physical nonverbal cues.

That's fascinating. I mean, on like a really sick level at Bohemian Grove, which is where this comes from, is that a human trafficking thing? Are they essentially creating trauma-based mind-controlled or enslaved children for, sounds horrible? But I mean, is that what's going on there? Is this a human trafficking thing as well? Yeah, absolutely. Our southern border, it breaks my heart, those children that are being trafficked over there, over our border.

Yeah. And you can look up, you can look up, you know, stories from the Border Patrol that say these kids, their minds are gone already by the time they get across our border. Wow. I think one of the things that we see in the 20s, over 20 years that we've been working at this is about that when people come to, us and that they have the trauma of living in dissociation, and that is different people inside, that their brain had to separate trauma. So there was parts of them that know what life is, and there's other parts of them that only know the bad that the life is. Now, that's not real accurate a little bit because the parts that have gone through the bad, the rituals, the trafficking,

and the research, they do know that parts of them are living life. So they do know that. But this part that does life doesn't know about what they went through, the research and the trafficking. When you need to build up your team to handle the growing chaos at work, use Indeed sponsored jobs. It gives your job post the boost it needs to be seen and helps reach people with the right skills, certifications, and more.

Spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all your boxes. Listeners of this show will get a $75-sponsored job credit at Indeed.com slash podcast. That's Indeed.com slash podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Need a hiring hero? This is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs. So we're different in the place that when we talk about satanic ritual abuse and trauma-based mind control, we lump it into trauma-based mind control because so often, the church gets real upset about satanic ritual abuse. And what we see is a family that is very incestuous, prepares a child, and they can silence the child by throwing that child into a ritual

and doing the scary stuff. When they silence the child, and then they can start when they can do like the governmental stuff and make, you know, espionage, etc. And by age eight, because you already have a silence system. So for us, satanic ritual abuse is a part of the whole picture. Now, I know that some others just looked at everything as satanic ritual abuse. And I guess that's fair.

The problem is, is when you just focus on satanic ritual abuse, the church gets up, there's a mindset that happens that the church gets afraid of that. I want you to think about this. This is something that Mike and talked with us about often. He goes, you know, think about it. Even in the Hebrew's life and Israel's life, Old Testament, they were probably living with neighbors that were pagans and sacrificing their kids. and doing ritual, et cetera.

And he said, but they knew that they served Yahweh, and they were chosen to demonstrate his love for them. And so they stayed their course to make a difference here. With the church doesn't do that. They see here, and they want to separate and not deal with it. Right. And so one of the things that we've really just kind of refocus on is to help the church in this idea of trauma

and not be trauma informed, but be trauma and to be able to respond, have a trauma-informed response so that they cannot, they will not retreat into their own fear. Think about this. If it's fear that is a motivator that can change our behavior and we pull away,

and with us, there is no spirit of fear. What would that look like? We were a people that lived out of God's love and moved in that rather than fear. And if we would recognize our defensive mechanisms, even with each other, like if I find that I pull my heart away from the conversation, I'm like, what, you know, what am I fearing? and I can move toward that and I can stay together. What would the body of Christ look like for the world if we lived in love, not fear? Yeah, I mean, I think the temptation to be afraid is constant. You know, we're all in a state of anxiety a lot, especially in America.

And there's like this broad sort of mind control that goes on. And then you're describing also like a very specific mind control targeted towards a small, you know, a smaller group of people. But I often think when we discover, when we talk about some of the ancient religions and gods and things, there's always a trick of codependency somewhere in there. You know, you are codependent on this system. And the reason Christianity,

the reason Jesus is so much different is it's true freedom. It's ultimate freedom. You are going back to Eden and being what you were designed to be. And there's no, you are no longer enslaved. And I think for a lot of Christians, these types of ideas creep into the church. Obviously, they pray on children in the church. They come in and they try to get us into that fear state. And so we don't, we stay in a sort of a disassociated relationship with God, the rest of our lives.

And I don't think, and that's the other thing that Mike taught us is that we don't truncate spiritual from, you know, physicality, non-spiritual. This is our world he created to have a family. And it's now but not yet. And what does that family, that kingdom look like? So you're saying that it's a form of Gnosticism that they're trying to kind of push on these kids. Can you talk a little bit more about that? Yeah. To transcend by not being human, to be to be, to have.

have tears that you have to work on. This dehumanization and trauma-based mind control is always about they're trying to get a child to stay out of their body. And Audrey, you talk about this better than I do, to stay out of their body to be able to develop the things of the arts, the dark arts. And if you look at that as woo, woo, creepy, you're going to miss. that the child was only trying to stay attached to the caregivers that they had, even though they were malevolent.

Hmm. That sounds brutal. Yeah. And I think one, I think we need to clarify one of the definitions we use for dissociation is the mind's preparation for the body to be harmed. Huh. So dissociation is the mind's preparation. That means the mind's getting ready to leave the body so it doesn't feel the pain that's

being introduced into the body, being purposefully perpetrated on the child. So like numbed. Like you've got a cavity. They numb you and then they do their work. Or isn't all the same as like you kind of, you go somewhere else so you don't have to deal with the compartmentalization? Like you take your mind and your consciousness somewhere else so you don't have to deal with the trauma in real time. So do they know they're disassociated? No.

They would not. Just like you explained, you go somewhere else. What you just did with your hands there is you are not in your body. You went somewhere else. So let me just flow this down a moment because it is not disassociated. It's dissociated. Because remember, if you associate something, it's together. If I disassociated, I pull what was associated and I pull it apart.

So dissociation is different because the, child, everything is disturbed in normal development, that relationships are not, they're nice, they're nasty so they don't, there's nothing attached to. The child sensually does not bring, see, right now we're sitting here and we're bringing all of our senses and we're bringing it as an event together. You know, where I'm sitting, comfortable, what I'm seeing on the screen with with you gentlemen and what we're talking about. I'm feeling it of a little bit of excitement to be here and passion and what I'm talking about. All of that emotion, everything welds together and makes a memory.

When you're creating, when you're hurting a child to train them to stay out of their body, sensually, they're overwhelmed. So the senses do not come in associated. the senses are just coming in filed like this. They're just coming in and separated. So they say dissociative. So that's why someone who's had a trauma and they have, all of a sudden, there's a familiar smell. And they're like, oh, my word, I remember that.

That sense came back in from that trauma. And the person is trying to make sense out of where this smell fits in. why are they smelling that? Yeah, why do I get anxiety when I smell that? Yeah. And is there a level of like some people are way out of their body and some people are kind of out of their body? Because it seems like during COVID,

when you presented something that went up, it felt like people were doing the same thing. Like they were, there was a part of them that was disconnected from, you know, what I'm seeing and what I'm feeling or we're not in one. And so when you present something that I don't like, I get angry and I freak out. Yeah. But then you're talking about people who have been through like experiences and they're way out of their, they don't even know. They have no idea.

And they have, they smell something. And they're like, wait, that reminds me of something I don't even know. You just did a great differentiation of just what that was like for you during COVID. Because now think about a child in that confusion. And you know, our brains can't file confusion. And so here's a child always in that confusion. No wait. They're saying this, but this is what, no wait, this, that, so the child just stays almost

hovering, you know, just doesn't land in the relationship. See, an openheartedness, I can land and I can be right there with you. Are these kids that got hurt? There isn't that. Introducing the new best skin ever, ultra slim precision concealer from Sephora Collection. It's full coverage with a matte finish and perfect for any look, whether you're building it up for a full glam moment or targeting correction for a more natural vibe. At only $12, it's great for affordable touchups on the go. Get this new must-have concealer at Sephora or at Sephora.com today.

So there is a continuum. There is a continuum of a dissociation. So you'll have like, if you're on a long drive and you're on a straight highway, way you have road mesmerization and you're you know maybe you get to your exit you're like wow I'm already here there was a disconnect in time because it was so mundane so so repeated repetitive that you missed that time block whereas going all the way to trauma-based mind control the continuum is there's different peoples who do different things inside of the same body now to give an example I have six sons

And I taught all of my six sons To drive a car in a standard vehicle Stick shift Let's go Okay And so they're you know You know teenagers They're trying to learn how to drive

They're afraid of everything They got this big machine So I had to I talk with them To feel their foot on the clutch To stay in their body Because as soon as we're afraid We want to back out of the body We want to come back

And so you could tell if you're if you you know watched my son learn my son's learning some were better than others and they stall the car over and over because they were so afraid they were going to do it wrong yeah i remember that experience my grandfather took me out and it was like i thought i was destroying his truck in a parking lot right you have to be in your body to feel when that clutch engages with the engine what happens to these kids as adults it depends some can be really very high functioning and they could be, you know, CEOs of companies. Wow.

And but, you know, when they're not in front of a bunch of people, then internally their life is not going well. On the other end, you could have someone who can't function at all in life. I have a question then. So we talked about the unseen realm and the understanding of entities and lower G gods, demons, of course, all these things play into the unseen realm. Um, how much of involvement is that realm in, in this, in this ritual or this practice?

Like, are, are, do you have specific entities that are behind, in your experience, behind some of these, these programs, if you will, or this programming of people? Like, uh, or is that just kind of, or is it, is it just really evil people? I'm good with both. I mean, obviously, I think sometimes in, in, in some spaces, we're like to over spiritualize things. And this is a very spiritual thing, but I'm just curious as we put on our Mike, our Michael Heiser, Unseen Realm's Supernatural Glasses, if you will, like, what sort of entities do you run into that are involved in this space? The very first time that we did a seminar with Mike in 2010, you know, I was really into the charismatic, you know, stuff. And I said to him, I said, now, what is the difference?

between Shining One and Lucifer and, you know, Queen of Heaven and all that. And he looked at me, he was so gracious. You guys know Mike. He was so gracious. But he looked at me like he just didn't understand the question. So I repeated it for this Ph.D. And he still, he goes, what does it matter? I said, well, it matters the way you do the warfare.

And he goes, no, they have no authority. It doesn't matter. He said, I said, no, wait, wait, what do you mean? But they have, you know, we give them, you know, legal ground. He goes, there's no legal ground. They don't have authority. It's been taken away by the cross. And I said, well, how do they get away with it then?

and he said, he said, think about this. He goes, human beings, if you look at them, I always look to, if you look at them and you give them attention and worship, they'll take it and they'll run with it. But if you're looking here at Yahweh, no matter what this is, they can't touch you, not even with their power or with their authority.

they have no authority. And so what we have found in that is that while we do have, we have like resource cards that when we're working with someone, we help them understand what the chaos is inside. One of those cards is an intelligent evil card. So think about this. If someone has multiple people inside and they've been programmed with a lot of conditioning, you know,

they hear a sound and they have to go. do this or whatever. So they need to know their own thought, someone else's thought, another part of them's thought. They need to feel when it's conditioning. It feels like it's a drivenness that they have to do it or they'll be in trouble. They need to feel what an intelligent evil thought is because Audrey's going to explain to you how a child gets connected to intelligent an evil and what that looks like. And the other two are religious thought. You're good, you're bad, it's evil, it's not.

For a child, that is mind splitting. You're good, you're bad. You know, it's not about a spiritual component. It's about your good, you're bad. God loves you. He hates you. That religious thought. And the other one, which we thought was very difficult to address, was an altruistic

thought. And an altruistic thought for a child being programmed sounds like this. We had a person who was programmed by Werner von Braun in that era, early 60s. And her dad was in the Civil Air Patrol. And so he would fly her to where they needed to be. And she would walk in and they would say to her, she's six. They would say to her, you're helping us with the astronauts so we can get astronauts to the moon, you're helping America. Do you hear the altruism in that? So that little girl

would get undressed and crawl up on a table and go through whatever was needed because she was helping America. That's altruism. Horrific. Yeah. Jeez. Do you think ladies, do you think Jesus' is unprogramming people and rehumanizing them? I believe they need to understand how to be human and know what truth is, yes. Yes. Yeah. So I want, I want, I want, I want, I want, I want Audrey to talk about so that you guys have a good picture of what it looks like.

When there is a 45-year-old sitting in front of us that has a connection to intelligent evil, this is where it starts. Go ahead, Audrey. So they'll be sitting there. They have disdain for us. They have disdain for humanity. They're elitist. They are better than. That is an intelligent evil thought. That is not a person who is possessed by intelligent evil. It is a mindset that's over them. And so when we have someone like that, what we will do with that person is help them to differentiate. That's not you. Can you tell that that is not your heart? heart. And they'll be like, now, you can't have her. They'll be talking to us, the intelligent evil. And we'll be like, well, will we talk directly to the person's heart, not to an entity of any sort? And when the person in front of us realizes this is not them, it's so easy because because of what Mike taught, they have no authority. They deceive a human into being

connected to them or being in compliance with them until the person has understanding that that's not true. They can't. How does the child get connected? Yeah. And so what would happen is when the child is being hurt ritually or in a programming session, remember all of the ego exhaustion are gone. They're overwhelmed with sound, sights, the body is being hurt.

They're totally at ego exhaustion. And when that child has nothing left, they're totally in. in a fetal position, they'll be taunted. Reach for something more powerful than you. You can be more powerful. The child has no idea that when they're reaching for something more powerful, that it's intelligent evil. It's the Garden.

It's the Garden of Eden. It's the original temptation, right? I mean, you're kind of talking about like an exorcism of the mind, you know? Like, that's how it feels, right? So that child, now you think this is a five, six, year, seven year, even a 12-year-old child has no idea because they've been raised in trauma that this is not them. They're told the entire time, you're the bad one, you're the this, you're the that. All the while, they were taught and mocked to connect to this power so they could feel more powerful when they were completely powerless. And the child thinks that that's safety.

I keep reaching for it because the child, now think about it, relationally, there wasn't any safety. They don't know any other connection. Think attachment. They don't have any other attachment for safety, but when they connect to this thing, it all stops. Do you see the deception in that? That's the illusion of safety.

It really is. It really is because you take it right back to 2020 where they said stay six feet apart. Right. And I'm safe now. And the other layer on that was, oh, and you're keeping everybody else safe. You're caring. It's the altruism, right?

You're caring for your neighbor. Exactly. You're caring for your grandmother's going to die alone in a hospital, but you're caring for her by not being there. Well, let's think about this, too. Like, let's say that Bohemian Grove, it's sort of this ritual to stand six feet apart because it represents, you know, the dead. And we are this grave. and what about is there anything that happens when two human beings are close to each other if we have the spirit of God in us and we're together does it does it magnify what we have in us when we're together the Bible says that two or three are gathered he's there also but is there something happening is there something happening energy wise and then and in that example I gave you that someone is sitting in front of us and they're saying and they have this elitist this intelligent evil mindset over them when we When Fern and I stay in love, those entities hate that.

They don't know what to do with it. They want to get far away from Jesus and His love. They want to get far away from love. So when we stay in love, the person in front of us can connect to that love, and that entity has to leave. It's not this big woo-woo thing. So think about this. The opposite of fear is love.

and if we stay in love, if you've seen deliverance ministers and you've seen people that when there is a display of taunting or we had this one guy said that Intelligen Evil punks you. I think that's really the best word. It really does punk you.

Because they just go right after to see if you're going to walk into your own fear. And so if you go like this, in the name of Jesus, and you go bigger. Do you see my posturing is fear? Yeah. They got you.

So this is what happens. So I'll blur to, it's called blurry. So I'm going to blur two stories together. There we go. All right, Fern. So there was, we had a friend, 90-year-old, Monsignor, and he was, in his younger years, he worked with Mother Teresa. And he also was the top exorcist in the eastern coast.

He would go up and down and in the Catholic Church. He would teach how to do exorcisms. And we were sitting at a conference that he was speaking at, and we were sitting at the table. He knew what we did. He knows us. He was very much supportive of us. And he said to us, tell us one of your stories.

And so the story that Audrey was alluding to was about we were being punked. by this. And for me, what happens for me is when I'm being punked like that, I want to fight. I'm a fighter and I wanted to fight, but the Lord has taught me, the Holy Spirit has taught me that when I want to do this, I sit back in the heart, my heart where Jesus dwells. And this is what I say to myself. My name is written in the Lamb's Book of Life. And it's from that place. I stay with the person's heart. And we just reported the story when, when, you know, the thing came out was punk and I'm going to kill you. And, you know, Audrey just stayed with the person's heart. Can you tell this isn't you? Because you were in anxiety that you tried to keep this back. I'm here now and it doesn't matter

where she is. And Audrey just stayed with. And in that, the entity pulled back and the person came forward and said, I didn't ever, I never knew that wasn't me. I thought I was evil. And as we reported this to, and he said, you to this, this Monsignor, he said, I knew it. I knew the love of God was stronger. I've been doing it wrong all these years. Let me ask you this. How often in your work, two question, two part question, it's probably not a realist, but like when you are walking a victim through their redemption or their healing, you're bringing them back to wholeness, is that, can that be a very long process, is sometimes a short process? And the secondary part of that question is how often as you're walking them

through this counseling of being set free, do you get a manifestation of something like that, like a demonic manifestation that pops out? Like, how often does that happen? If a child never knew how to know what an emotion was, because an emotion meant they were going to get raped. So you've got to teach them what an emotion. So you start with emotional regulation, what an emotion is. And we, in our curriculum, we have things that help someone make sense out of it. We've got a picture of a thermograph that emotion. that emotions feel in the body.

See, a child wouldn't know it's an emotion. They would just feel it in their body. They are angry. They are afraid. You know, and they'll feel that in their locus of, you know, fear, pelvis or something. And maybe they'll be taught to, I know if this is a family show or not,

but maybe they'll be taught to self-soothe in a sexual way, you know, because they feel the fear in the pelvic area. So all of that is being taught to that's their normal. So here they are 45 and they're just finding out that they have kids inside and all of this and now it's starting to make sense. This isn't about finishing that none of us are going to get finished with the journey and see him. The sanctification process, that's why we really don't like the word healing. It just is sanctification. I was 40 years old when the Lord said to me, I don't, I was going to go for a master's into a doctoral program.

And he said, I'm going to send you back into the field. And you're going to learn. I'm going to train you in the field. And he said, because these people have the giftings and the skills for the body of Christ for what is coming. Wow. And it's about journeys. This is last year, Fern? No, this was 20 years ago.

this is interesting i i never really looked at maybe i mean my my thoughts are just that the anger and the hatred that came out of the religious leaders in jesus day you know and i didn't think about religious systems can be trauma-based mind control where people are like you challenge you're challenging everything i believe you're you're causing me to come back to myself and i don't want to do that. So we're going to kill this guy, even though they've been waiting for him to show up. Yeah. And then they kill him because it's like they've been traumatized. Yes. Yeah. And so we need to come back to the simplicity of the gospel. And that's what Michael did for us. He wanted a family and he wanted humans with him. Yeah. And it's that father, son relationship. And I think we, we

sort of hear that and we go, well, yeah, you know, or we associate with whatever parent relationship we have or is that good or bad, I don't know, instead of realizing like, no, this is like, this is like real love. This is for the first time, this is what it, this, so you have to have, when you say love, I think a lot of people go, well, who gives you the love?

Is it Jesus, you know, like you can't, because a lot of people go to these other religions and these new age ideas with love and peace and this sort of hippie agenda, but really, the only one who can actually love you is Jesus, right? I was going to say, you know, I wish there was another word because love is so, it doesn't hit it. It's that place of, you know, you can feel, can you imagine being able when you get irritated with your spouse or your kids or something, and you're like, oh, my word, I'm not in love. I'm in a defensive posture. Why? These are people I love. If we start looking at love as, I know love is the person of God.

And that's what I want us to be. And we're not in. The work of the Holy Spirit is to bring us without spot or wrinkle. Let him do his job. He's saying, you're in a defensive posture. You're in fear. Let's get back to love. Let's just to know that.

And that's why we have a whole curriculum. I know a lot of people want to come see us, but what happens is this paradigm shift coming out of deliverance, coming out of to come back to be what it is to be human. We have a whole year course of just going through. What are your emotions? Where do you feel that? What is it to be human? What is an image or look like?

What is that, you know, is God pleased with you being a human being? Because we have an idea that we have to be super spiritual. spiritual beings to be of them. Yeah, it's like a new way to be human is the old way, right? Luke's just dropping album, album names from old bands we just love throughout this interview. But I think this is important. I think this is important conversation for the church. And I wish we could go on and on for hours because I feel like what we do to a lot of

Christians is we drop this hardcore truth on them about Christ and his death and his resurrection, but we don't prepare their heart for why we get there. And so people come out of it, confused. Like, wait a minute, I feel guilty as hell because I don't really understand what happened. So I'm only told this, like, you know, the last five minutes of the movie, and I'm not given anything to prepare myself. And I think that that can be traumatic for a lot of people. So you see these people get angry at the church. They get angry at Christians because they were sort of, I think, I don't know, not prepared for the gospel in the right way. But what do I know?

I think I have one last question. This is a personal question for you both is 20 years in this line of work, right? I mean, how do you, as a person, how do you deal with the darkness and trauma? You have to sort of, you put yourself in into that same space with these victims. And I mean, personally, how do you guys deal with that? Because when we do episodes about SRA, especially the abusive kids personally. Like, you know, Nate and I are dads. And you think about, and Audrey, you're talking about being a grandmother.

Like, you think about your kids. And then you put yourself in a position where you think about your kids going through this. And like I've sat and cried in episodes before because it is so heavy. It's so evil. It is so, there's so much depravity. And you think about your kids or in a position like that. And it's beyond heartbreaking. How do you guys deal with that from a personal level when you are the person sitting in front of front of you is telling you these stories?

And almost every day you're confronted with the realities of the depravity of evil. There's a hope. And the hope is that they survive. They're telling you their story. And in that hope is that there's a result. billions, even in what God is given to a human brain, that instead of staying back here in limbic in the trauma, they can come here and they can live life in the fullest, not dissociated from it, but saying, I survived it.

Living, I'm thriving. And that's why I think, you know, you look at the church and the, and the, are, martyrs of the church. You just look at the Old Testament, although these people came home. Their sons, their husbands were gone from the war. They died in the war. There was, they were taken into slavery.

This has been our history. And we have the hope that we can, if we all understood what it is to be human and how to stay here, but we pull away. Or we want to just hear the sensational. That's the other thing that we don't do. We could probably make a lot of money on the stories we know because people want the sensational. Well, I was going to say that's great because I think sometimes it's easy on doing a show like this to get into the weird wild stories.

But I think that sometimes people do use these moments to express something that they went through to help other people. But oftentimes the conversation has to come back to just, hey, we need to learn how to. to be human again. So because we get a lot of the hate and the reactions from people who listen to our podcast, these guys are crazy. This is nuts. And we have to stay as hosts in that, God, I don't know. I don't know. You, you, these are, these seem honest. So I'm just going to stay in this lane. I think our listeners, when they stay there, they can learn something and they can begin to change and come back and realize, yeah, we're all part of this wild story. But anyway, we. So, I want to, I want to just add my, I'm, typically as usual, I am very, my answer is very different than Ferns, but I do want to put it in here. I think it's important before we end. I, um, I was a single mom of six sons. My ex-husband, when I was married to him, was the worship leader at the church. Wow. He was extremely abusive in every way possible to me, not particularly to my sons.

And so this journey is very real for me because you, you know, you mentioned Stockholm syndrome at the very beginning of this. And yet that is, you can put it in those terms. But in the church that I was in with a worship leader as my husband who was very abusive at home and no one knew, mind control, it sounds wacky for that. but I was controlled by terror and fear. Yeah. And in the church at that time, they didn't recognize. This is over 20 years ago. They didn't recognize you're just supposed to be a submissive wife.

And so it blew apart at our church when the magnitude of abuse was there. And I had to myself learn how to regulate emotions, not just for me, but for my six sons, who were very young at the time between three and 20. We have to navigate what emotions are, navigate what our thoughts are, because thoughts dictate how we are. They either are cage or our freedom. And so when we talk about this journey

of learning emotions and understanding what's happening inside, anyone who suffered abuse or trauma, not just trauma-based mind control, they have an element that they're controlled by the trauma they lived in. because of the beliefs they have about themselves because of what they live through. That being said, when someone understands what it is to be human and understands emotions and knows how to regulate their own emotions, they are not controllable.

They're not controllable because emotions are what manipulate humans. Dang. That's a mic drop right there. Wonderful. For an Audrey, thank you guys so much for coming on, blurry creatures.

We should do this again. Yeah, we should. We're just scratching the surface here. It's been a... But this is great, though. I think our listeners are often triggered, you know.

And we sometimes often, like, I don't know what to think about that. And we always have to make room for, like Mike said, just one of these stories is true. We got to, we got to bust the paradigm.

And I think that that's what you guys do is help people put themselves back together. and that's an important job. And I think we just raise awareness. We just kind of blow the horn that this stuff exists, everything from Bigfoot to alien abductions or whatever it is is happening. You know, we're trying to educate, hey, this stuff's happening out there.

Or here's the evidence. Do it with it what you will. But you guys take it a step further and actually take people out of these traumatic situations and help put themselves back together. So thank you so much for your work and all the things you do. And I know you deal with a lot of skepticism and criticism and people, like you said, your family's falling apart. All these things that happen when you try to do this work, we know that it's not easy.

And tell our listeners where they can get involved, follow you. And then again, thank you for coming on the show. Sure. Fernandadry.org is where you can find us. We also have a course that you can sign up for if you want to learn how to be human. And just serve Jesus out of love. Love it. We're on YouTube and Facebook, Fern and Audrey.

All right. And Fern, if you get anything on those trail camps. You got it. We're first in line. I love it. Thank you, guys. Thank you, ladies. Thanks so much.

We should do this again, honestly. I think we'd be fun to rabbi trail a little bit on some of the things you guys do. But thank you. Thank you. All right. Thanks for having. All right. Bye, all.

Have a good day.