Blurry Creatures - EP: 302 The Genesis Six Affair with Tim Alberino & Dr. Joel Muddamalle

Episode Date: February 11, 2025

Deep in the jungles of Costa Rica, the Genesis 6 Affair takes center stage. At our 2024 conference, Tim Alberino and Dr. Joel Muddamalle break down the Watcher incursion, the Nephilim agenda, and the ripple effects that still shape our world today. From ancient texts to modern implications, this conversation pulls no punches. Join us this year on live stream. The conference starts Thursday, Feb 13th. https://checkout.eventcreate.com/costarica2025/select-buy. - Get our Book of Enoch audio: https://amzn.to/4aftwuc Get our Book of Enoch! https://amzn.to/4gpV4yZ Video Episodes Drop Every Tuesday! Website: blurrycreatures.com Blurry Creatures Socials https://www.tiktok.com/@blurrycreatures https://www.instagram.com/blurrycreatures https://www.facebook.com/blurrycreatures/ https://www.twitter.com/blurrycreatures/ https://www.youtube.com/@blurrycreatures Special Thanks for Platinum Members! Mitchell Moody Scott Cragg Joshua Drummond Maureen Munoz Amber Freeman Nicolle Benz Zach Mills Adam Dougherty Desiree Nichols Kate Logan Kimberly Lee Fayola Shakes Suzanna Wenzel Kent Denmark Michelle Watkins Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Listen, Luke, we know that we live in a world where everything is fake, fake food, fake clouds, fake news, everything's fake. And you know what? You get tired of it. And you're just like, if I want to buy a shirt or something nice, can I just, please, give me something real. Quinn's is an amazing company that does high quality everyday essentials. So we're moving in. We're in spring here. Moving into summer. Maybe you need to refresh that wardrobe so you're ready for the summer, t-shirts, shorts. These are everyday essentials made from premium materials. Here's a chance to refresh. your wardrobe for the summer at the price that's 50 to 60% less than similar brands. And we always ask, how do they do this, Nate? And it's because they work directly with ethical factories, cut out middlemen.

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You're in America's hat. You want the goods. You can get it now. Go to Q-U-I-N-C-E dot com slash blurry for free shipping and 365-day returns. Quins.com slash blurry. Luke so often, people email us and they have this story. They're out in their woods and they're looking in the bushes and they got, what's that? And when you are pouring your dog food and your dog's bowl, that's the last thing you want to say. What is that? What is the stuff coming out of this bag? You know, I don't think a lot of us think about maybe what we feed our dogs. And that's why we partner with rough greens. Most of us would love to have our dogs, you know, live as long as possible. I mean, I just lost my dog in December. And I would have just, I would have loved more time with Carl. And one of the things you can do to get more time with your dog is to feed them better. Dog owners don't usually realize that live nutrients, that their dog

needs to thrive or missing from the food. You just talked about. What is that, right? That's where Rough Green comes in. It's America's number one dog supplement that you sprinkle on top of their food. It's packed with prebiotics, enzymes, omega oils, and 20 live vitamins and mineral support digestion, energy and overall health from the inside out. It's all natural made in the USA and thousands of dogs are feeling younger, more energetic and healthier than they have in years. That's why we love it. I'm giving it to our two dogs. You know, I've got older dogs, Nate, as I said. And so, you know, since they've been getting rough greens with their food, I've noticed they have more energy. their joints hurt less, they're older.

I mean, they were talking 12 and 13 years old. And Rough Greens really made a difference in their energy levels and the pep in their step. So if you want to do what we did, you can get a free jumpstart trial bag for your dog today. Just cover the shipping. Go to Rough Greens.com and use discount code blurry. That's RUFF Greens.com discount code blurry. Rough Greens makes any dog food better. Pura Vida, Nate.

That's right. We're in Costa Rica right now, Luke. Just ready to go. Us pale, talls, getting sunburned down here. Hey, I had to jump in the suntan booth for a couple days at least. I went from red to redder. You got a nice glow to you, pal. I'm ready.

I'm ready for this week. We are down in Costa Rica for our conference. We're excited. And we have over 150 of you blurry, crazy ones coming with us. We're Manuel Antonio down here, monkeys, parrots, all the above. We're going to get into some fun French topics, theology with our friends, Timothy Albarino. French topics? French topics. French. Yeah. We might talk some French. We, we. We're going to get into it with our pals down here. So Timothy Albarino's here, Dr. Joel Muromale.

We also have some people streaming in. We got Dr. Laura Sanger streaming in and Ashton Forbes coming in and adding some just a wide range of blur down in Costa Rica, maybe. We're spicing it. And for those of you guys, you can't be there in person. We've got the next best option for you. The Blurry Dynamic Team, our production staff, is going to be live streaming this, beaming this right into your living room, and you can go to blurry creatures.com right now. Click on the banner and get live tickets and hang out with us for three days on the beach, talking all things, aliens, Bigfoot, ancient history, UFOs, Genesis 6, cosmic geography, and all the good things.

Dr. Joel Matamalei and Tim Albarino. So join us on the live stream, grab a ticket. And in order to kind of give you a, to wet your whistle, right, for this event, we're releasing this episode from last year's Costa Rica.

It's called the Genesis 6 Affair. It's from our conference last year. It's Timothy Albarino, Dr. Joel Matamale talking about the apex of the vortex. This is the epicenter of everything, Genesis 6, and their takes on what happened.

And of course, you have the UFO guy, the alien guy, and the theologian. And this is an unbelievably dynamic situation when we talk about the crux of the seed war and everything else in between here in Genesis 6. Send over to blurry creatures.com, click the banner, get a link. Let's go back in time, the time machine, listen to these guys, drop some goods on us.

I think we broke the ice last night, though. We had a good time. You guys have fun yesterday or what? We're starting off with, I guess, the whole crew here. We're going to go right back into it. A lot of times yesterday we paused and said, we're going to talk about that tomorrow, and It is that time, gentlemen, here we are. So we're talking about Genesis 6 right from the get-go,

which is kind of sort of when I think that was the whole huge part of the podcast was trying to figure out, okay, is Bigfoot a part of this Genesis 6 event. And that's sort of, Tim, you were kind of in the Genesis 6 space with a lot of the pioneers of the Genesis 6 space, like way back when. I don't think Luke and I really had any idea. of all these names, you know, the Tom Horns, those kinds of guys that were pioneers of the Genesis Sixth Space, right? Right, Luke, we had no idea how weird this rabbit hole went. No, we did not, you know, the, yeah.

So you want to start a podcast, huh? All right. Yeah. No, no, I was just going to say that, you know, the Tom Horns and the Chuck Misslers and the folks, L.A. Marsullies, right, all these folks that have been banging this drum, though, Because Tim could corrects it for wrong, but there was a big Nephilim sort of kick or interest spike, I know, in the 90s. We're an 80s show, but hey, the 90s were cool. I mean, you and I were in high school, Nate.

And the Nephom thing was happening before we sort of stumbled into it, and intentionally trying to figure out this Bigfoot creature, as you said. So it was pretty interesting. I mean, I know personally, we always say it's a Journey podcast, right? And personally, this was pretty eye-opening.

I mean, you know, you and I both raised in church. You went to Christian high school so you could play on the basketball team. And... Did you come off the bench? Hey, hey. I wrote the bench at the D1 school, but I started at D5. Okay, come on. Yeah, baby.

Yeah, baby. Big red in the post. That jumper. That jumper. No, but I just, you know, I didn't ever hear about this, you know, growing up in church. And this was like, you know, a big paradigm. shift or, you know, to use that word a lot, but it really was for me personally. I know you had already been invested in the space, you know,

with 10,000 hours of remodeling homes and listening to Bigfoot podcast, but it was pretty, it was a pretty big shift. And so it's exciting because I think it just, you know, Joel and Tim are and Joel being a theologian and, you know, Tim being, you know, researcher, scholar, adventurer, all the above, but he's, they're so well versed in this. And, it just was it felt so new and exciting and it opened the scriptures for me and I don't know if anybody else feels that way but it really does start to make things make sense

whether it be the conquest of Joshua the flood that even the days of Noah stuff that Christ talks about you know in the New Testament it it begins to all really it feels like a key that unlocks a lot of that and so I'm excited to get into this with with two guys that are much smarter and and have better licks if you will in this Yeah, I'm excited to see how your guys' opinions match and maybe some different perspectives from both you. So for a long time, our Genesis 6 episode, Tim, was like kind of, I think blew up. It was our, like, most downloaded episode. It went viral, like, last summer, maybe the two summers ago.

But I loved the freshness and the more of the, it just felt more like a Star Wars version. I don't know where you can want to kick it off like some things that we haven't talked about before on the podcast but maybe we'll have to rehash some of the old stuff that we've already kind of kicked around but okay I love your perspective on it I'm confident that all that all of you are familiar with the general Genesis 6 narrative we don't have to argue for a supernatural reading of that right no no set ideas So, as you're well aware, the reference in Genesis 6 is somewhat amorphous, and it requires additional reading. It requires some extra biblical text to fill in the blanks, to enlarge the story. and we find the most detailed account in the book of Enok.

Now, I'm of the persuasion that portions of First Enoch were indeed written in the anti-Dulubian world, or at least were written after the flood through our, tradition through the recollection of Noah and his sons that can be debated but I do believe that portions of the book of Enoch

and I guess if we're going to talk about Genesis 6 we probably should begin by talking about the book of Enoch because without the book of Enoch there's really not a whole lot of material there's some things you have

second temple literature you have some references elsewhere in extra biblical texts. But it really is the Book of Enoch in which we find the definitive narrative of what I call the Genesis Six affair. In fact, I would go so far as to say that the writer of Genesis, be it Moses or someone else, was actually copying and pasting from the book of Enoch, so to speak, A couple of those verses are almost verbatim. And R.H. Charles, who was the best translator of the Book of Vianab,

who translated it from Giaz or Giz, the liturgical language of Ethiopia, because that's where the book of VNAC was preserved, fragments of it among the Dead Sea Scrolls, first Enon. R.H. Charles, for whatever reason, ended up synchronizing the beginning of the story of the Watchers in the same chapter where we find it in Genesis. In other words,

in verse Enoch, chapter 6, verse 1 and 2, which corresponds to Genesis chapter 6, verse 1 and 2, in which we find the famous reference to the Nephilim and the daughters of men of the sons of God

who were desiring lusting after the daughters of men I think it's important to note that that term sons of God in Genesis 6 in the Septuagint it's rendered as angels. Sometimes it feels like when you get that phone bill, it's like the crash site document.

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the Septuagint, which is Greek from the Hebrew and Aramaic, they decided to use the word angel there. So that is, I think, significant, and it's a real hurdle for anyone who would argue against the Sons of God in Genesis 6 being anything other than angelic entities. I'm sure you've all heard of the Sons of Seth theory, which I think is complete nonsense. I'm sure we all do. We find the baseline narrative. We find the narrative that would have been familiar, I think, to all of the Hebrews, ancient Hebrews, we find that narrative in the book of Bena. And again, it might be elsewhere.

There might be lost manuscripts in which there's even more exposition on the watchers that we don't have or we don't know. But from what we know, it's the book of VNod. And it's very interesting because I'll try to make this a short and then I'm sure Joel has some commentary. But the book of Enoch is a very complex manuscript. By the way, I don't know how many of you know this, but Nate, Luke and I are just about finished with our own version of the book of Enoch. That's what we've been working on. And it has, I write the introduction and comment. commentary and we have and by the way my introduction is maybe it's going to be surprising

some of you some of the things I write in my introduction but Nate worked on some concept scenes so what we wanted to do was we wanted to create something that was different and that was unique and the commentary and the introduction is going to give you a different for sure but I think what's really going to give you a different view is the concept scenes we have concept scenes in the book where there's like a description of an event and then there's a there's concept art there's an illustration and it's not your typical rendering of the Anacian tale it's it's very it's a very unique perspective let's put it that way so it's good

We're really excited about it. We've been working really hard on it. That's coming out soon. So the book of Enoch is a very complex manuscript. There are unquestionably, and let's talk about first Enoch. There's three books of Enoch. First Enoch, which is known as the Ethiopian version, because it was preserved by the Ethiopians.

Second Enoch, which is known as the Slavonic version or the Secrets of Enoch. Third Enac is very much Mercaba. And there's something called Mercaba mysticism or chariot mysticism, which was Second Temple. I guess you might call it an apocalyptic, second temple apocalyptic material that focuses around, that the focus of Mercaba is the throne room of God

and sort of heavenly scenes and how that all works. And it's all very, it's all very, mystical Mercaba. And third inoc is 100%. Mercaba. We actually include all three versions in Enoch just in case people want to browse second and third

Enoch. But First Enoch is differentiated from second and third Enoch because portions of first Enoch are unequivocally were unequivocally compiled before the birth of Christ. The earliest portions of Enoch

are BC. And that's really important. Which is attested to the Dead Sea Scrolls. That's right. That's right. The Dead Sea Scrolls is proof positive that the earliest portions of Enoch are pre Christ. And that's really important because

that includes the book of Enoch is divided to four sections. I'll try and wrap this really quick so we move on. It's divided in four sections. The Book of the Watchers, which is the primary narrative. The Book of parables, which is, it's very creastological.

There's a lot of messianic, prophetic content in the parables. And the third section is the courses of the heavenly luminaries, which is, I'd say that's Mercaba influenced. And then the fourth section is called the dream visions. And in the latter sections of the book of Benak, you have fragments of the book of Noah, which are inserted. So the Book of Inok isn't just the Book of Benak. It's also fragments from the Book of Noah, which I regard, and I don't know if you do as well, Joe.

I regard the Book of Noah is largely mythological. If you read the Book of Noah, I think some of you would probably agree. So it's a very complex document. Now, first, Ina, rather, the Book of the Watchers and the parables are pre-Christ, are BC manuscripts. Nobody knows exactly when they were written. It is possible, as I said, that the earliest portions might even have been written by the hand of VNoc and preserved through the flood. Turtulian, the church father, argued.

He believed that indeed, the earliest portions of Enoch were preserved through the flood, either an oral tradition or written form and recompiled after the flood by Noah. So there's, and obviously I'm sure you're all aware of the fact that there's a lot of controversy around the book of Enok. And there was, there's always been controversy. The early church fathers went back and forth on whether or not First Enoch should be included in the canon. And it is, it's important to mention also that the early church fathers were quoting from a manuscript of First Enoch that, we don't have. So there's more somewhere. There's quotations that come from the early church fathers that are attributed to the book of Enoch that you don't find in the Ethiopic version

of First Enoch. So that's interesting. There was some other sort of manuscript circulates. We could keep going down that rabbit hole, but I'll pull back from that for now and I'll just highlight a couple more things. As I said, the Book of the Watchers is the narrative of the Watchers. That's where we get most of our understanding, and I think where the ancient Hebrews garnered much of their understanding in regard to the anti-Diluvian world and the Watchers and the Giants and everything that unfolded up into the flood. And it is very, very intriguing, but even more intriguing than the Book of the Watchers are the parables. And I think that the parables of Enoch, in my mind, function as an authentication for at least some of the content.

Why? Because it was unquestionably written before Christ, and yet you have some of the most dynamic, precise references to, Jesus of Nazareth that you're going to find anywhere. And one after another, for example, I'll give you a quick example. Jesus, out of all the messianic epithets, out of all the messianic titles that he could have used from the Old Testament, the allusions to Messiah, out of all the symbolism,

but specifically the epithets, the titles that he could have used, the one he used the most to refer to himself was what? son of man and there's only really one place and correct me if I'm wrong there's only really one place from which that can perhaps be derived that title in the Old Testament

and that's in the book of Daniel but I don't believe that that's what Jesus is referencing why because in the book of Daniel Daniel says that he saw one who was like a son of man It's not used as a definitive title, as a proper title.

Rather, it's used to describe a human being. That's like saying, I saw someone who looked like a human being. However, in the Book of Enoch, you have the definitive title, the son of man. And the prophecies pertaining to that son of man are, I would say, foundational to some of the things that Jesus claimed,

some of the things that he was referencing in his discourses, directly making reference to the Book of Enoch, Jesus of Nazareth, making reference to the Book of Enoch, and signaling to the audience that he was that son of man, which is very significant

because it is my opinion that if you were to go into a synagogue in Judea during the first century, and you were to have access to all of their scrolls, and you would have had more scrolls there than are represented in the 66 books of the Bible, certainly in the synagogue, and obviously none of the New Testament stuff. So you would have more scrolls than what we have in the Old Testament. flowing ad budget on metrics that look great till the CFO sees them, that's bullspend. And marketers are calling it out in.

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Go to LinkedIn.com slash campaign, terms and conditions apply. Introducing the new best skin ever ultra-slim precision concealer from Sephora Collection. It's full coverage with a matte finish and perfect for any look, whether you're building it up for a full glam moment or targeting correction for a more natural vibe. At only $12, it's great for affordable touch-ups on the go. Get this new must-have concealer at Sephora or at Sephora.com today. You would have found, in my opinion, you would have found the original manuscript of the Book of Enoch in that synagogue. And so when Jesus references, when Jesus refers himself as the son of man, when he designates himself as the son of man,

and you understand who the son of man is in the book of Enoch, then you realize what a big deal. There we go. There we go. That really... Can't get away from it. That really is. See, it had to be the sound bite. It just had to be.

So the point is that, and I mean, we could go, we could... No, I like that. We could cover a lot of those. I like that a lot, because usually what people will say in the argument in defense of the book of Vianak is say, oh, Peter and Jude quote it, right? But I mean, if it's coming from Christ himself,

it's even more epic. And more important to... We talked about that. We actually pre-recorded an episode on the Book of Enoch. It's going to come out with the book. So we've got real in-depth on that. But that's something that really, you know, hasn't been talked about a lot in the circles we're in is how much Jesus refers to the Book of Enoch, which, to me.

Directly. Yeah. Which is way more important than just Peter and Jude. Yes. And so much of the doctrine of the New Testament of the Apostles is actually based on content from Enoch. not kind of based on content from Enoch, directly based on content from Enoch. And I want to insert very quickly. It's before I forget, this may be the last chance to do it.

Everybody who was on the VIP, you were supposed to get a signed copy of that book. It's coming. You guys will get the first edition signed copies of that book of Enoch. So I wanted to say that before we forgot. That was part of the deal. And I'm going to pause and let Joel chime in here before we go any further down, the Enoch path. Yeah, that's really good. Just a couple of quick details on why I mentioned Dead Sea Scrolls.

The Kermon Cave is incredibly important because it attests to the earliest writings and datings of these scrolls. And when you get into the book of Enoch, it's important to understand what came early, what is the most reliable, what are fragmentary pieces. So if you're looking at actual translations, you'll notice different stylistic inclusions. inclusions that will let you know, oh, this is easily understandable. This was part of a fragment. So we can kind of make out probably what words should be there. And there are large sections that are inaccessible or that have been damaged.

And so that the first, Enoch, the first section of it, those first two sections of it, we've got the clearest manuscript evidence of that and the largest pieces of evidence for it. And I think that's really important. The other thing, and I want to get into Genesis 6 as well, but since we're on Second Temple literature, I want to affirm and reemphasize what Tim is talking about here. Jesus, and it starts with that illustration that I gave when we had first started with MJ versus LeBron, it is intellectually irresponsible of us to assume that the only context that Jesus and the disciples are writing from are within the pages of what we have. in the New Testament or the Old Testament. You're like, is that, is he allowed to say that? There's a worldview that they're living in.

There's a context. There's a Herod. There's a Rome. There's a Caesar. There's an empire. There's subjugation. All of these things are present. And so when Jesus and the disciples are talking,

they're talking within a particular context that they very well understand, which is why it is incredibly important for us to pause and in humility just, ask this question, what is there something that I'm possibly missing contextually, right? Here's another one, and this will take us to Genesis 6, and we can dig a little bit deeper into that, and I'll do a little bit on human ruler stuff, but the other massive quote that Jesus has in the New Testament,

Son of Man for sure, the other one is unclean spirits. Where does that Greek phrase, unclean spirits come from? It actually comes from Second Temple literature. It comes from Book of Enoch and other writings, animal apocalypse. There's all these other places that that particular phrase shows up. Okay, now think about this. When Jesus talks about unclean spirits, what is he referencing in the New Testament? What you and I in English would refer to as demons.

Okay. The English word demons is horrifically imprecise. Horrifically imprecise. The Greek word diimonion. It is class and category. It is not a specific type. Right? In the same way that angel,

Anglos is a categorical understanding of a function of a cosmic being, a demon, a diomon is a categorical understanding of cosmic types of beings. But this is why the phrase unclean spirits is so important because it gives us the

definition, the definitive understanding of what these spirits actually were. So in second temple literature, what are unclean spirits? This is where Genesis 6 becomes vitally important. Unclean spirits were referred to as the disembodied spirits of the Nephilim. Whoa. That now brings exorcism, brings inhabitation, bring all of these. things that Jesus is dealing with, even the specific words that come out of these demons, these unclean spirits. I think precision is important. So sometimes I'm now refraining from saying demon and I say unclean spirits. This is why when they see Jesus, they freak out. There's in, I think it's Luke 4, I'm forgetting where Jesus is at the synagogue and he rolls

open the scroll and it's the scene where he encounters an unclean spirit. And in your Bibles, it might say there's like an ah, the unclean spirit goes, ah, who are you? You're the son of God, right? Like there's this whole thing, the son of the most high. Divine counsel language, anyways. The son of the most high. That ah is a Greek participle that is insert bleep. It's a cuss word, y'all.

This demon panics. It cusses. It's like, oh, crap, we've been found out. Why would these demons, who I think have gone mad because they've been roaming the earth endlessly since the Genesis 6 historic kind of narrative? Why is it? They have been, I think, tormented by the reality that judgment is upon them. Their fathers, their parents are in Tartars. We'll talk about that in Genesis 6.

And they have been roaming, roaming, roaming, with this anticipation of the coming. Messiah and yet they don't know exactly who the Messiah is going to be. So every time David shows up, think about the war between David and Saul and the exorcism kind of scenes that are happening. Think about all of the stuff that's happening. It is an anticipation for when Jesus shows up on the scene and these demons

panic. They are unclean spirits. Now, what makes a spirit unclean? Yeah. What makes a spirit unclean? I was going to ask that. You want to ask it? You're going to ask you. Then I'll ask it. What makes a spirit unclean, Joel? What did you ask, Nate?

That's a good question. Well, it's a big deal. That's what it is. They're not originated from heaven. Why is it in Leviticus, all throughout the some of you are reading the Bible in a year and you've hit Leviticus? I think Leviticus is the graveyard of so many Bible readers, right? The bones of many Bible readers are left in the pages of Leviticus.

Talk about Moses in the depth of this book. Leviticus becomes much more significant when we realize that that holiness is a serious issue for the people of God. Holiness, purity, sanctification, purification, these are serious things. God holds it serious. The people of God have always been meant to be a holy and set apart people

so that, it doesn't stop at the holy and set apart for no reason, so that we might be a winsome witness for the nations of the world that they might be drawn into the family of God and see the beauty of God's kingdom. There's a purpose for it. And in it that we are carefully, warned of not defiling ourselves with the world.

What are unclean spirits? These unclean spirits are the mixture of two things that were never meant to be mixed together. So let's go tonight, Genesis 6. You've got Genesis 6. You've got these sons of God, the bena alohem. If you are to take, here's just a quick, like, if you're like somebody's trying to debate you, for the most part, I'm not a fan of debates. Like, if people are trying to debate, I'm like, all right, see you later. Like, I don't, it's just, I don't know. I just get an. I know I know the debates, but if they are persistent on the debate, here's your ace card for this one. You say, oh, that's really interesting. You think the Sons of God in Genesis 6 are men or human rulers?

Really great. Okay, quick question. Every time this phrase, Sons of God is used, who does it attribute to? Outside of Genesis 6, Sons of God, in the Old Testament. It's always some type of cosmic being. These are the same beings that are mentioned in Job, the sons of God, the morning stars that are shouting for joy before creation. So here's a hermeneutical principle. If the same phrase is being used in the same way, and now you're trying to say that this phrase is being used in a different way in this passage, you better have really good rationale. Kayak gets my flight, hotel, and rental car right,

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You need to have lexical connections, which needs word connections. You need to have contextual connections, which means imagery that's being recapitulated throughout the rest of scripture. You need to have two to four specific ways to really substantiate a human reading. And here's the problem. You don't have any of that for Genesis. is six. There's none of it. Every time it's used, it's used in reference to cosmic beings. Now, the real issue here is how can a cosmic being and a human woman have sex? That's the

bottom line. How can they multiply or be fruitful? And some people will be like, well, Joel, didn't Jesus say that we will be in the new heavens and the earth? We will be like angels, you know? What did Jesus actually say about that? Did he say that the angels? Did he say that the angels? angels don't have sex? What? They're not given to each other in marriage. That leaves some grand ambiguity a little bit here. Right?

And you have the reality of inhabitation as well. We're not told in the canon of Scripture exactly how this happens, but we are not demanded that it is improbable, that it can't happen. so we're just left with the evidence that's in front of us so I'm going to keep moving what is the evidence that's in front of us that these sons of God look at the phraseology we talked about this in our last session

they see they desire and they take I agree with Tim that this is what's the phrase that you use you have a really good phrase about lust raging lust this is raging lust hot raging lust hot raging lust Hey, you put hot in there, I think so.

That's like Nate's footnote. I think this is all absolutely correct. A couple possibilities. This is my kind of take on it. I actually think what you have here is human trafficking. I think you have sex trafficking and it's origination. I think that based off of what we know about the book of Enoch in this exchange of potential goods, that if you give us your women,

then we'll give you all these incredible signs. scientific advancements, all of that. I actually think what you have is sex trafficking. And so these men in a patriarchal society are actually forcing their daughters or their women to go into a relationship that they never wanted to be in that relationship in the first place.

This is still abuse. This is still abuse. This is taking place. They have these children. These children are called the Nephilim. The Greek handles it. Oh, here's another really important thing. Nate, Tim talked about the Septuagin.

Why is the Septuagin so important? The Septuagin is incredibly important because the subtugent, in my opinion, and some other scholars would, I think many of the scholars would agree, is the first legitimate commentary we have of the Old Testament. The Old Testament Hebrew was translating to the Greek New Testament because after Alexander of the Great comes into the scene, he takes the Hellenistic worldview, which has Greek as its primary language,

and proliferates it across the known world of the time. So here's the thing. Language holds culture and that culture holds meaning. And so Ptolemy around the time is like, yo, this is wild. Like we've got all this Greek everywhere, but you've got the Hebrew scriptures that are in Hebrew. And at this time, we've got exile and we've got these sojourners and strangers and they don't have access. Many of them aren't even reading and understanding Hebrew anymore. So he hires 72 scribes Jewish experts of the law to come in to do the translation. Really interesting thing, the subtugent, the Roman numerals or LXX, it actually comes out to 70.

Big question, where did the other two go? I think they slept in the day that it was being titled. So sorry for those two guys. But you got 72. And so it instantly, when you translate from one source language into another language, you are translating. There is very rarely a one-for-one word equivalent. So all this for a purpose. The Septuagin is vitally important because it gives us the first inclination

as early as we can really get to what these scholars actually thought the original Hebrew meant. So two important places. I'll telegraph it for the next session. One is Deuteronry 2, 8, and 9. The Dead Sea Scrolls actually give us what the original manuscripts actually said. And then two, the Sons of God, the Nephilim, the Septuagin, actually goes and says, these are angels, these are Anglos. Again, categorical term, not individual person, personality. Now with that being said, you've got these Nephalim, and then the text is explicit in Genesis 6.

With the presence of the Nephilim and the outcome, what the Book of Inak lets us know, with all of the scientific and pharmacaya, pharmaceutical, all of this information, does good increase in the world or evil? Evil. Evil. This is where we get the Raphaim. This is where we get these giant kings. This is where we get these unholy alliances that take place. And as evil continually increases, Yahweh steps in and goes, we can't have this. This is going to decimate my holy set apart creation. And God is not a loser. He's a winner.

So he's like, all right, I'll step in, and I'll handle it. And that is the backdrop of the flood. I want to back up real quick and return to Enoch for a minute. and then I'm going to fast forward and I'm actually going to push back a little bit on something that Jill said and we'll get into an interesting conversation. I love when Tim pushes back.

Thence forward. I wanted to give you a sample of, just so you understand when we talk about First Enoch and how critical it was, how critical it is not only into understanding the context of Genesis 6, but also how foundational it

is to the doctrines of the apostles of Christ when they're writing the New Testament and to the claims of Jesus of Nazareth central to the claims of Jesus of Nazareth this is a I'm going to read here the the excerpt from Daniel from which scholars who don't want to attribute anything to Enoch in regard to Christ's claims or the Doctuals of the New Testament will and it's not usually scholars it's actually theologians who do this will use this text as the basis

for Jesus using the epithet son of man for himself more than any other title. Okay, this is from Daniel. I saw in the night visions and behold with the clouds of heaven there came one like a son of man and he came to the ancient of

days and was presented before him and to him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom that all people's nations and languages should serve him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion which shall not pass away and is kingdom one that shall not be destroyed now I'm going to read what I'm going to read an excerpt from the from the book of Vinox specifically from the parables of Vinoch from which I believe that Daniel

that Daniel's excerpt is actually derived not directly but inspired here's first enoch and at that hour that son of man was named in the presence of the Lord of spirits and his name before the head of days or ancient of days yea before the sun and the signs were created before the stars of the heaven were made his name was named before the Lord of spirits he shall be a staff to the righteous whereon to stay themselves and not fall and he shall be the light of the Gentiles or nations. And the hope of those who are troubled in heart. All who dwell on earth shall fall down and worship before him

and will praise and bless and celebrate with song the Lord of Spirits. And for this reason have he been chosen and hidden before him before the creation of the world and forevermore. And the wisdom of the Lord of Spirce hath revealed him to the holy and righteous. for he have preserved a lot of the righteous because they have hated and despised this world of unrighteousness and have hated all its works and ways in the name of the Lord of spirits for in his name they are saved and according to his good pleasure hath to bed in regard to their life now that may have I want you to consider this for a moment

We're going to go right back to Genesis 6. And really, this is, these concepts are integrated into Genesis 6 to some extent. Now consider that, and there's a whole lot more of those in the book of parables. Consider for a moment those words being penned by the hand of Enoch, the seventh from Adam in the anti-deluvian world. So all the way from the very beginning, what are we getting? We are getting a presage. We are getting a prophetic vision of Jesus of Nazareth and what he was going to do. And there's a lot more of those in the book of Benak, and I won't go through them.

I have them in the introduction to our book of Vinok. but the point is that so much of what Jesus said and what the Apostles has written has a foundation in the book of Benak. So again, I would say that the parables of Enac are the authentication

that's, now hear me very clearly, some of First Enok is what I would say, and I would go so far as to say this, and I would agree with Turtulian, by the way. Some of First Enok is in fact inspired. So,

So now fast forwarding to Genesis 6. This episode is brought to you by Redfin. You're listening to a podcast, which means you're probably multitasking, maybe even scrolling home listings on Redfin, saving homes without expecting to get them. But Redfin isn't just built for endless browsing. It's built to help you find and own a home. With agents who close twice as many deals, when you find the one, you've got a real shot at getting it. Get started.

At redfin.com, own the dream. In the book of Watchers, we have this epic narrative that unfolds, which corresponds to Genesis 6, in which we find, this is the beginning. This is the beginning scene of both Genesis 6. And Genesis 6 doesn't really, it doesn't unpack anything. And by the way, that's a very important point. Why does the author of Genesis not expound?

Give a detailed account. on this bizarre reference, this what would appear to be a strange, a peculiar digression in the Genesis narrative. So the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were beautiful, blah, blah, blah. And he doesn't, he's just a quick little insert, right? Yeah. Why does he do that? Because the story was thoroughly chronicled elsewhere.

Right. He doesn't need to repeat the whole thing because it's already well known. So there's a manuscript out there that, or oral tradition, or both, probably both, that the writer of Genesis is not going into detail because it's well known. And everybody knows the story and where it's written. And I would contend it's written in the book of Enoch. And whatever that was called at the time. We don't know if that was the name of the manuscript at the time. So this peculiar digression in Genesis is expanded in Enoch, and we find the opening scene of the story.

And what is the opening scene? It's exactly what Joel was saying. It's watchers who are on the verge of really what amounts to insurrection against the kingdom of heaven. What's motivating them to do what they're about to do? And they know what they're about to do is, I don't want to use the word big deal. Very significant. They know that what they're about to do, that there's going to be potential ramifications here. That's why, before they go and do this thing, they say, let us bind ourselves by mutual imprecations.

In other words, we're going to take an oath and we're all going to bear the guilt for this great sin. They knew exactly. They knew precisely that what they were about to do was an infraction against the kingdom of heaven and was going to incur the wrath of God, potentially. At the very least, potentially, it would be grave consequences. And so they decide to bind themselves by mutual infrications,

and they do so on the summit of Hermon. But before they get to Hermon, which, by the way, is called the Mountain of Oath. Before they get to Hermon, there's something happens, and this is what I call it. This is the first cause, what I refer to as the first cause of the sin of the watchers, the fall of the watchers. And I guess before we go any further,

we should probably just spend a couple minutes talking about what watchers are. Where do we get this terminology? Well, we have to go back to the book of Daniel because some people when they hear the term watchers, they don't realize they think, oh, that's a weird, extra-biblical denomination. It's not. Because we have a fascinating scene that unfolds

in the book of Daniel that uses the same terminology. And this is when King Nebuchadnezzar, the haughty king of Babylon, is being judged by who? Who's judging the king of Babylon? The Holy Watchers. are judging the king of Babylon. And there's this amazing scene that unfolds in which the watchers through Daniel,

and very much like the watchers through Enoch, in the book of Enoch, but Daniel's the intermediary here in this scene. The watchers are judging Nebuchadnezzar. And it's really amazing because this is a divine counsel scene, and it's the holy watcher. of heaven are passing judgment on Nebuchadnezzan, and you'll recall that they

sentence him to have the mind of a beast for what is it three years or three and a half years, whatever it is, and he eats grass and he's basically mad, loses his mind. And this is by the judgment and decree of the watchers, right? So when we say watchers, I think a lot of people instantly have a negative connotation to the term. No, that's incorrect. First, we should have a very positive it carries a very positive and holy connotation watcher so that's a good that's a good reference for us because this is not some this is not some demonic serpentine devilish group of beings no these are holy watchers who are about to do this thing and that's why it's it's so that's why it's so consequential these are the who are about to go against the king. And what is the first cause?

The catalyst, lust. It's in the book of Genesis, and it's in the book of Enoch. The first catalyst, the first cause, is lust. They're looking at the daughters of men that they're comely, or fair, beautiful, and they're desiring them. Exactly. They're desiring them sexually. Now, when I started to really digest this many years ago, it was like I had to slam on the brakes in my mind. Wait a minute. And it first started with Genesis 6, and I remember reading the book of Enoch in a Barnes and Nobles. No, no, the other one that went up is Borders. In Borders as a teenager, reading the book of Enoch sitting there in borders. And, and

This just, and I borrow a phrase from the late Christopher Hitchens, this rearranged the furniture in my brain, the theological furniture in my brain. It totally rearranged it because, wait a minute, the watchers of heaven are lusting after human females? That's how this whole thing begins. They're lusting, but they're not just lusting, they're not just filled with this uncontrollable sexual desire.

No, they actually concoct a plan. Because they're not, and Joel alluded to this yesterday, it's not just lust, that's the first cause. They lusted after the daughters of men, and they wanted to procreate. They wanted children, offspring. So I think that there are three primary motivations to the fall of the watchers. Number one is lust.

Number two is they saw how the union between a man and a woman was producing offspring, this amazing gift of God that we can replicate ourselves through our offspring, that we can have families, which is a model, by the way, it's a reflection of God's family, right? It's really a sacred thing that our families. And that's why I think the enemy spent so much of his time trying to destroy families. So they're looking at these beautiful women and they're watching how the sons of Adam take wives and the celebrations and the joy. And then the children, the offspring that come forth from this union, they're desiring that as well.

They want that. And then I would say third, and this one, the first two are explicit, the third is implicit. The third motivation is dominion of the earth. So first, they're lusting after the women. Second, they want to marry them. And this is where we might disagree. They want to marry them because they're not just looking for sexual intercourse. They're looking for families.

They want to procreate and progenerate offspring. But what kind of offspring come out of those women? Halfbridge. Hybrid giants. Hybrid giants. So I believe that the watchers knew exactly what they were going to do. They were going to produce hybrid offsprings, human hybrid children, sons,

who were gigantic in stature so that they could dominate the sons of Adam, but yet who were human enough so that they might inherit the birthright of Adam legally. I believe there's something very cunning going on here. And this is why I believe, and again, we can discuss this further, But this is why I believe that it wasn't rape. I think that women were willing partners in this transaction for two reasons.

Number one, because the watchers, in my estimation, and I go through this in my book, for those who've read my book, are members of the elder race. And the elder race are, again, it's my opinion, that the elder race are exceedingly handsome. They look like probably young men in their 20s or 30s. They're probably very tall, beautiful beings. And they look like me. I'll say Zach Ephron. And I think they would be blonde or golden blonde or in some cases, strawberry blonde. Exotic?

Exotic? Exotic. and save. Inside joke. And so these are not grotesque, in my opinion. These are not grotesque reptilian freaks.

These are the gods descending to the earth. And probably six and a half feet tall, right? Like Fabio's, basically, descending to the earth. And I believe, and this is a stretch, perhaps, Joel, and I admit that this is a stretch.

But I have some a little bit of extra biblical text that suggests this, but it's my opinion that it was probably more likely the daughters of Kane who were marrying the watch. I can't give you too much

source material for that, but it's a feeling I have. It's probably the daughters of came in my mind. And there is some extra biblical indication of that. So the watchers are coming down. Now, they have a plan to try and effectuate

this scheme legally. They want to do this in a way if they can evade the judgment of God, they're going to try and to evade the judgment of God here and do everything legally. So, and this is going to, this bears upon how I view Deuteronomy 32, which we won't get into because Joel's going to cover that thoroughly. Because I believe that, and I say I believe it, I can say this confidently.

Dominion of planet Earth was given to, Adam and his offspring forever. The gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. It was given to Adam and his offspring forever. God didn't say, go out and take dominion and wrestle it. He said, have dominion. He bequeathed to Adam, the deed of planet Earth. And by the way, we see that deed show up in the Book of Revelation,

the scroll of the seals. Who is worthy to take the scroll and break its seal? That's a whole other thing. It ties directly into this concept of dominion. So Adam and his offspring are given dominion. That's the birthright of mankind. We govern the Earth. We are the regents of the king on planet Earth.

Even though there are other entities in play who are more intelligent, who are more powerful than we are, who have more remarkable capabilities than we do. have been given the deed of the earth and we govern it and and and and it's not the dominion of the earth doesn't belong to the righteous it's given to the offspring of Adam good bad or indifferent now God reserves the right and this is made plain even especially in the in the scene I just talked about and with Nebuchadnezzar God reserves the right to enthrone or dethrone any ruler at any time that is the prerogative of the king

We are not the king. We are the regents of the king. We govern at his good pleasure. And we are supposed to govern according to his kingdom and his precepts. And we've made a mess of it, right? That was supposed to be the order of things. So God allows us to have bad rulers and so forth. And this is kind of a different topic.

But the point is that dominion of the earth was given, bequeathed to Adam and his offspring. And the watchers knew it. And so if they were to make a direct infraction into man's domain, a hostile takeover, what would have happened? There's armies in heaven for a reason. They don't stand idly by. The hosts of heaven, this army we talked about, this standing army, the kingdom of heaven, isn't just a set piece in the biblical narrative. It's an army and it enforces the will of the king in the universe. And so if there's an infraction, a hostile attack on planet earth against the sons of Adam,

then the armies of heaven will defend us and defend our authority. Because without that, without the backing of the kingdom of heaven, our authority means nothing. Nothing. Very quickly, if I am a king and I have an empire, and I dispatch a servant, if I dispatch someone who I'm going to elect as a governor for a far away distant territory, and I send that governor, and this is, and I'm talking about in an ancient context, and I send that governor to govern in that territory in my name with my authority, he can't show up empty-handed, number one.

He has to go with something very specific. What does he go with? He goes with the signet seal. He takes my seal of authority with him. So that when he shows up and he says, the king sent me, he shows the signet. Whatever that is. What was the signet usually?

The signet seal. It was usually a ring that was pressed into a softened wax or resin. And it more often than not bore what? The seal of the king. The image of the king. More often than not. It would have a profile or the face of the monarch. And so that vice regent who is going to rule and govern in a sector of my kingdom is showing up to those people.

And the mark, the seal of his authority, he's carrying the seal, which bears the king's likeness. That's the image of God. So if that guy shows up, if my governor shows up without that seal, he has no authority. No one will believe it, number one. Number two, if he shows up and he has the seal, but he doesn't have the backing of my army, he has nothing. He has no authority. But if he shows up with the seal by my authority, then if the people rise up against him

or if there's a foreign army that tries to invade, what happens? My armies are coming. My armies are coming. And everyone knows it because he has my authority. That's Adam, and that's us, on planet Earth. The reason why this place isn't just overrun, taken over by more intelligent beings, the devil and his angels, for example, in a direct assault, dethroning all the kings of the earth, is precisely because the armies of heaven enforce our authority.

So the reason, and I'll wrap this up and then turn it over to you guys. But the reason I wanted, before you ask you, the reason I wanted to say this was because in order for the watchers to make this incursion into our realm, our realm, make this incursion to our realm without triggering the armies of heaven and immediate judgment is they were doing it to some extent legally. They were going to make a transaction with the governors of the earth. And they were going to, through this transaction, they were going to surreptitiously take over through their hybrid offspring.

Well, I guess a couple questions or thoughts, maybe. Can I respond really quick to the C intake? Is that okay? Yeah. I think Tim and I are saying very similar things. We're getting to the end result in two different places. I actually ended up writing a little bit about this of why I do think, this is my defense

for why I think the see-and-take language of Genesis 6 is in fact rape, that it is in fact violence against women. Let me give a couple background thoughts. One is that in the ancient Near Eastern world, it's a patriarchal society. I agree with Tim. This is actually, this is a legal issue. I actually wholeheartedly agree with that.

The normative understanding in this time period, again, accommodation, God's working through time and space, is the women aren't making their own transaction rights. They're passive participants in whatever the patriarchal society. They're being levitt. This is horrific. I'm not denying that. I'm just saying this is what we have evidence of. That they are, in fact, many times unwilling, reluctant victims of being utilized as well.

bargaining tools and chips in order to get whatever the patriarchal society want. Think of Jacob and Laban. Right? This is going to come in very important. I wrote this, so let me just do it because it's going to be way easier than me trying to speculate or just bring it from my memory. So typically conversations around Genesis 6 focus on the famed cosmic beings, the sons of God, and the children that are produced as a result of their union with human women, the Gibbereem, who are warriors of renown and are associated with the Nephilim.

Now, one thing that is often overlooked is that the supernatural beings are actually engaging, and this is what I think is important. Violence act, violent acts against this woman. Side note, I think this is why God cares. God is a good God who does not want his children, including his daughters, to be misused and abused. So, in fact, I would go so far to suggest that the language has overtones of forced intimacy, or in other words, rape. Let's look at the text. So, and I'm doing a little bit of Hebrew here. So Genesis 6.2, the sons of God saw, Rahah, that the daughters of man were beautiful, and they took, la ka, any they chose is wise for themselves.

The language of saw and took is repeated elsewhere with the same Hebrew words, which creates a pattern that we should be keenly aware of. What we see as beautiful and take, because we believe it should be ours, always has tragic consequences, when we were never intended to experience those things in the first place. So let's look at the pattern. Genesis 3, 6. The woman, the Samad Eve, saw Rahah, that the tree was good for food and delighted to look at it, and that it was desirable for obtaining wisdom.

So she took Lakha, some of its fruit and ate of it. Genesis 342, very important one. When Shechem, son of Hamor, the Hevite, who was the regent's chieftain saw Rahah, her, one of Abram's daughters, he took La Khah, her and raped her. In 2 Samuel 11, we found the same pattern with King David. David saw Rakhah, Bathsheba, and then took Lakha, her. As a result, David has Uriah killed. So this shows us the sons of God in Genesis 6.

Seeing and taking human women is likely connected to violence against them. The result of this union is the Nephilim which perpetuates violence and sends the world into deeper chaos and evil. This is the background or the origin story that necessitates the flood. a footnote or a caption that I would make in that is it very well could be that these women are willing but reluctant. I would make the argument that willing but reluctant, this is more an ethics issue,

willing, theological ethics issue, willing but reluctant does not diminish the fact that this is forced and enactable right. There's a problem though. What's that? plot when he offers his daughters to the men of the city. Yeah, same thing. Well, here's the problem. The Book of Enoch, in the Book of Enoch,

we have, when the judgment is passed down in the Watchers, who's included in the judgment? The offspring, the Nephilim, and the Watchers' wives. The Watchers' wives are judged very severely. In fact, the Book of Enoch says that they're turned into sirens.

but the point is that the women bear the guilt they bear the guilt of the watchers sit so if these women were taken by force then why would they bear the guilt because it's yeah I think they were willing participants perhaps as you said we have a middle ground here that you can agree on perhaps at first they weren't perhaps it was against their will yeah this is a good point and then and then and then over time because the because the because

in the book of Vianak it says that the watchers taught their wives and their children, the secrets of heaven. So maybe the women were ultimately beguiled by the knowledge of the watchers and so forth. So that's potentially going to ground. But something I think we're agreeing on here, and this is the essential point,

there was a transaction. There was a transaction. And that transaction is pivotal because I think there's going to be another, and there is another transaction happening in our day. And there's coming other transactions that are in this vain. There was a transaction. The transaction was, remember the watchers descend, they take

the oath on the mountain of oath, Mount Hermon. They descend into the plains below, and they begin to choose for themselves wise from the daughters of men. Now, each one chose for himself, one, one, which I think is also indicative of the desire to have a union with one woman to creative family. So they're not just looking for a good time on earth. They're very specific. They're choosing a woman who A is beautiful and B is, in their mind might be a fit child bearer for what they're about to do, right? So they choose these women and then I don't see it as they're, you know, breaking open the huts and grabbing the women and throwing them over their shoulders and walking away with them. No, I think they're looking through the communities.

Imagine, and this is something really cool that that Nate's been doing is generating these images of watchers and it's very atypical to what most people think. It's what we describe. Tall, young, blonde, handsome men. Imagine them walking in robes, perhaps white robes, walking around, observing the activities of the daughters of Adam and Eve and choosing for themselves. I want that one.

I want that. And then what do they do? Joel's exactly right. What do they do? They can't go up to that woman and say, will you marry me? That's not all the ancient world work. Instead, they went to the father.

Will you give me your daughter's hand in marriage? And it was the father who had the authority. It was a dowry system. The father had the authority over his daughters, and he could give them in exchange for whatever he wanted. And so this is the way I see it. So they're looking and they're choosing, and then they're going to the fathers.

And the fathers want something in return. And we know what they want because the Book of Vianat tells us. The watchers taught them the knowledge. They were what? Striving to learn. So here we have a transaction. Okay. All right.

These group 200 watchers. They've chosen their women. They've gone to the fathers. And this wouldn't be a private thing. This would probably be a collective meeting. The sons of God have descended. The gods have come. And they've chosen these women.

Well, I think Genesis 6 to me is always on the show, have been a bigger version of Eden, right? So I think, I've, I've maybe a middle ground between both of your guys's ideas. I think more the watchers were basically taught or told by somebody else. I think that if the serpent is more cunning, he's a chess player, he sacrifices his players to get where he wants on the board, they seem to have been watching women for a while. And I wonder if they were, hey, you see that? go get it but he knows that their offspring what's going to happen because he's the most cunning right

he's smarter than that he because it seems as though they just had this moment where they just weren't thinking clearly and they they they went down I don't know if they knew their children would be giants I don't know if they knew that they would the women the the watchers I don't know if they knew like and here's the question I really want to ask who knows the Christ is coming do the watchers know the Christ is coming or is it just Satan in the garden that knows? I think it's encrypted. So I think in Genesis 3, it's referred to as the proto-eongelion, the first glimmer of the gospel, that when the consequences are being handed out to Eve and to the serpent, that, you know,

it's the famous passage. We all know that the serpent is going to strike the heel, but the heel is going to crush the head. And there's this question of the seed. In Hebrew here, it's a flipping between singular seed and plural seed. When it talks about the Messiah, it's singular seed. But when it's talking about the household of the enemy, it's plural. That's interesting. It's a very fascinating concept.

So I think that these enemies have some understanding that something's happening, but they don't have full, they don't have security clearance. Well, there's actually in the Book of Eden on Chapter 54, there's actually an indication in this, at least in the Second Temple, from the Second Temple perspective, there's actually some indication that what you're saying is true. Chapter 54 1st Enoch. There's a Enoch sees this vision of

angels being bound in iron chains of immeasurable weight and these chains are being prepared for who? He said, for whom are these chains being prepared? And he said the angel said unto Enoch, these are being prepared for the hosts of Azazel

who is one of the angels in the company of watchers so that they may take them and cast in the abyss of complete condemnation. blah, blah, blah. Then it says this, and Michael and Gabriel and Raphael and Fanuel shall take hold of them on that great day and cast them on that

day into the burning furnace. Now, isn't that reminiscent of someone else who's going to be chained and cast into a burning furnace? Then it says this, that the Lord of the spirits may take vengeance on them for their unrighteousness, the watchers, in becoming subject to

Satan and leading astray those who dwell on the earth. So there's actually an indication within the book of Enoch, at least from the perspective of of Second Temple thinkers, that Satan led astray

the watchers and that their fate is now going to be his fate, their fate is going to be what his fate is, which is to be bound and changed and cast into the abyss, a burning fire. So I think there is some indication that you're on to something. Yeah, if he's like, follow that timeline, Nate,

from a chronological standpoint and connect some dots from yesterday with the Rahab deal so if the if Rahad is an origin story regardless of if you take it planetary or not if it is potentially the origin story of the serpent falling to earth that sets in motion a historical trajectory of this being this cosmic being antithetical to Yahweh being present in some form in some fashion on the earth in order to build his team. He's building his team.

So you've got the first scene of rebellion, you've got the second scene of rebellion with Genesis 6, and then in a couple sessions we're going to talk about what I think is the third and final scene of rebellion, which is the Genesis 11 and Deutormody 32, 8 to 9 event. A last detail on the watchers thing that I think is really important of the ambition of the watchers. One, I personally believe that the watchers are the same taxonomy,

the same category we talk to divine counsel as the sons of God. I think these are synonymous, that the watchers are high-ranking supernatural beings. They're synonymous with the sons of God, which then brings coherence to the Daniel passage that these watchers, these holy ones, the Kenosheen, are bringing judgment on the king of Babylon. Think about that.

It's the king of Babylon. Keep them in the back of your mind for this next conversation we have on Jeremy 32, 8 through 9. But one of the things that the watchers do in this exchange of trades is they're so deceptive, y'all, that they give to humanity, what humanity believes will be fruitful and profitable for them, but all it does is sets them into a downward spiral of total chaos and destruction.

For instance, why would the watchers at this point in time give them the knowledge of metallurgy in order to create swords? Swords have one definitive purpose that's to kill, to take life. That was Azazil. Yes. And that's why he's judged most harshly. Yes. Because it seems that he injected into the world.

the murderous bloodlust that had not previously existed. Which precipitates the flood. That's right. Yeah. Well, I just think that, you know, if there is, you know, the traditional Satan view, if he is the most cunning and he's the god of chaos, then he's going to be thinking, you know, long term, all these plans, put into motion, create more and more chaos, you know.

but it's going to be very subtle, I think, and then it turns to this much more bigger deal in terms of more chaos spreads. And I don't know. I mean, I feel like it depends on what rank the watchers are. You know, how important are they in the Divine Council? Are they, you know, freshmen in heaven? They're not freshmen.

Or are they seniors, you know. You would say these are like the princes. These are the princes. Yeah. Yeah, and I would absolutely agree. My view, these are the princes, these are the Saurim. That's right. The Sharia.

This is when we get into divine, DeRoman 32, 89 worldview. We'll talk about Daniel 8, 9, and 10, and the princes. All of these language, these terms are synonymous with each other, which then connects to the New Testament in Paul's language. Tim talked about this of ruler authority, principalities, powers, thrones, throno, these are all ruling. They actually have militaristic backgrounds in the Greco-Roman world.

These are ruling titles, titles of rulers. A ruler that has no jurisdiction to rule, by definition isn't a ruler. And where's the one place they didn't have jurisdiction to rule? Here. On earth. That was given to Adam. And by the way, and we only have 15 minutes left. Do you questions?

Well, no, actually, I would like to finish the narrative. for those who maybe are unfamiliar with it. So the watchers, they take these women. I think there's a huge celebration of the wedding scene, and we depict some of this in our Enoch book. I mean, imagine the celebration.

The gods have descended to marry your daughters. They're going to teach you, they're going to give you the knowledge that you've been striving to learn in exchange for the daughters. But it was a Faustian bargain because the men didn't really realize that the fruit of the womb of their daughters would be giants who would ultimately

turn to devour them. It was a Faustian bargain. And that's why I believe the objective was dominion of the earth. Now the watchers themselves do not have authority to take dominion from Adam, but their hybrid sons do, because they are, in my estimation, human enough to inherit at the birthright of Adam, they're human hybrids. And they do just that. I believe they subject. Now, I'm going to, I'm going to launch into a realm of speculation, and I'm launching off into the distance of the story

because the narrative of Enoch doesn't really tell us a whole lot more. It really ends quite abruptly. In fact, it's frustrating because the narrative ends, and you get all this symbolic stuff and visions of this and that, And the narrative just sort of comes to an hang. It doesn't even actually get to the flood in the book The Watchers. You don't even get to the flood. You just get to the judgment of the watchers,

and they're judged, and we'll get to that minute. But what I think happens, so again, this is now Tim extrapolating forward the story. We know, according to Enoch, that the watchers, I'd rather that their hybrid offspring, who are giants, turn on men, and they'd be able to. begin to devour all the acquisitions of the land. In other words, all of the toil of mankind is now going to shovel food into the Nephilim's mouth, basically. There's 200 watchers.

So take 200 watchers. Each of them has a fertile wife who is producing offspring. So you have hundreds and hundreds of giants walking the earth. And these giants become dominant because the human beings are spending all of their energy to feed them, so much so that we're going to be. when they can no longer sustain their enormous appetites, the giants turn and begin to devour men. Now, I don't believe that these are big, dumb giants, you know, the Disney giants,

the clubs, and just eating human beings in a chaotic fashion. I envision something else happening here. Remember the watchers, the gods are on earth. So this is a very unique period of time in which the gods are walking openly among men and their offspring are on the earth with them and I believe their design is to rule the earth from behind the thrones of their hybrid children their hybrid sons and do so legally and because that's that's that's it's it's what I call rule by proxy they don't have the authority themselves but they can extend

this they can extend their their their governance of the earth through their hybrid offspring who do have authority because of the birthright the battle. So the giants are subjugating mankind and what I envision, and again this is just me extrapolating this story, I envision a scenario in which human sacrifice has initiated. That this is a ritualistic procedure that there's a quota of human flesh that has to be brought and sacrificed for the consumption of this offspring of the gods. Why do I think this is the initiation of human sacrifice because in all of these pagan traditions the gods are bloodthirsty and they and they reenact this very thing do they not the ashtec we enact this very thing

highly despicable to yah yes and it's abominable the canaanites reenacted this very thing by feeding their their their children by by placing their children on this under the searing idol and in some cases they would go down into the belly of the aisle their babies screaming being consumed by the flames this is a reenactment of something that happened in the world before the flood and I think it's it's it's a reenactment of the ritual of of giants devouring a quota of human flesh to sustain their appetites because the human beings could not satisfy them with the acquisitions from the land with their toil and with their harvesting and and

and with their livestock and so forth although they weren't eating flesh and that's the whole other thing they weren't eating flesh and the and the giants began to eat flesh and that's why it says that they sinned against the animals and then and then under that it says they were debowering flesh so the giants were against the the prohibition of eating flesh the giants began to devour flesh makes sense of the levitical law of flesh that's right A couple, just, you know, I don't get to speculate much in scholarship, so I'm going to do some speculation. You can speculate? Can I speculate?

As much as you want in this room. You're giving me encouragement to speculate. Let me just a couple speculative things. I think I actually reared in high plausibility to build a bit more even on what Tim is saying. I think that these watchers take up residence on various mountains on the earth, and they build their own types of pantheons. and I think each of them probably have their own supernat cosmic, their own kind of cosmic councils, counterfeit councils that they have created. Because again, if they're militaristic,

if you think of some of the best armies and militaries out there, this is that whole idea of the Spartans, the 300 Spartans, like you've got King Leonidas and you've got his 300, and they're special elite soldiers that are trying to, trained in a specific way. So I think there is some type of even unholy allegiance with some of these lesser divine beings that have, you know, made connections. I also truly, truly do think, speculatively, these are all of our origin stories of Hercules and Gilgamesian. And how do you get demigods? How do you get these narratives that are flowing across civilizations, across societies, across

time without any means of corroboration. There's no way for them to be like, hey, y'all over there in China, you do this, y'all in India, you do this, y'all in Greece, y'all do this. They just don't have a way to do it. So there's got to be a form, a means or a method of corroborating this type of source story. And I think the source story is actually the watchers, but I think the watchers are a bit arrogant. This is why they're different in different places, because they're not trying to rip off what the other

person did. They're trying to experience their own unique identity, their own unique source story, their own unique thing. I'm debating, well, they're not even, I should say this, but... Luke, don't put this on social media. I think the myth of werewolves and vampires, devouring flesh, has to come from somewhere. Where does it come from? I don't know. Actually, I think I do.

Yeah, can be alive on Cannibalism. The Murpholk. Inside joke. Inside joke. Yeah, I love it. I mean, I think, I think, no matter what, I mean,

it's a demon. You know, I think that we've talked a lot about Genesis 6, and I think maybe are we, I don't know if we have enough time to wrap this up, but it wasn't just humans. Seems as though it's spread everywhere, to everything else. Almost all creative words.

Let's just go ahead and tell them. I think I'm going to tell them. I don't think that, should I say this? I'm going to say it. I don't think that the flood was universal. Get out of here. Oh, why did I do this? I'm sweating. I think there's very, very good evidence for the flood to be a localized.

Hear my words here, precisely before you get very mad at me. Localized, but not. but not universal. I think that, and if you look at this idea of a deluge that's happening across the world, that you can have the presence of localized floods in many places across the world that has the same catastrophic impact

that leaves room for how in the world are there still Raphaim, Anakim, and this giant issue after the flood. They're remnants of these beings that are still. out there. So I think And I think we talked about this at the Airbnb because you brought up some good points. I hadn't really considered that God still has to preserve

certain parts of the ecosystem. Things have to, you know, the whole world is flooded. I don't know where I fall on this, but freshwater fish was another idea. How does that happen? And other things, and where do they come? Underwater eco, like if you've got an aquatic realm, what's going to happen to

the underwater? Like, this is. It's a shock. It's a shock to the entire system. But yeah, and people come up with some really bizarre, I mean, Luke and I have heard some pretty bizarre stuff of how do the giants come back and it gets really weird. And that would kind of make sense that, you know, it's mostly dealt with, but somehow they survive. And that phrase, the flood covered the whole earth.

You're probably like, wait a minute, Joel, the Bible says, the flood covered the whole earth, every mountain top. That phrase is a phrase that's used of the known world of it. time. So you could say it cover the whole earth and the whole earth could just be, well, what you know of, what you conceptualize. And you actually find evidence of that all over the place. There's actually a Babylonian text that talks about Babylon being like the only nation in the world. Well, clearly, obviously, the Babylon is not the only nation in the world. It is hyperbole. It is a kind of a type of exaggeration that's taking place.

And I think another good point that we talked about was how do the flood myths then get preserve in each culture. If they were completely wiped out, they wouldn't have any memory of that. Well, I agree with Joel. I actually hold a very similar position, if not the very same. I think, and most of you probably know,

I subscribe, currently, subscribe, to the Younger Drys Impact hypothesis. I think that sometime around 10,000 BC we have this catastrophic event in which a comet breaks up in our atmosphere and pummels the earth, specifically

the Laurentide ice sheet, North America. And you're talking about mild to two mile high ice sheet. And it causes massive flooding. Most of North America is instantly flooded. But also, it causes wildfires.

There's a word for that it can't, I don't remember the scientific term, because we're not just talking about a small wildfire. We're talking about continents on fire. And it causes flooding, and it causes all kinds of catathing. catastrophic things to unfold on Earth. It's a civilization ending event.

It's an extinction event that happens. And one of the most catastrophic results is the flooding. So if you're living on a river, and civilization was concentrated, for the most part, on rivers and on the coastal. And in the coastal regions. And so those regions are obliterated. 100% gone obliterated because of the flooding. Unless you got a big old boat.

Unless you got a big old boat, that's right. So I view it as a global cataclysm and that there was global flooding and that the entire Earth was affected and that it was a near extinction event. But not every single mountain on the planet was underwater. So that's, and there's a lot of nuance there. And by the way, there are many scholars who hold that position.

This is not like some sort of a radical position. It's, it's pretty prominent, actually. It's pretty prominent. It's probably 50-50 at this point, scholars, and I don't know, I'm just throwing that out there. But from what I've seen, it's, it's, there's a little more like 60, 40 that would hold total lines. I would say 63, 61.5. Luke, what do you think?

Luke, what do you? Yeah, Luke. Are you like to put a plug on us? No. What is happening over there? Somebody has to. I kind of blacked out after Tim said as a teenager. He used to go to borders and raid Enoch.

I'm imagining. I'm imagining Tim there. All the other teenagers are reading like Twilight and Vampire Daughters. And Tim's there like, dude, I'm reading Enoch. And I wear my cape. And he had dreads? Yeah, and you had dreadlocks. We got pictures?

Oh, yeah. Sorry, cloak. It's not a cape, it's a cloak. The cloak came later. I just... No, I just, I love that. I love that about, about Tim. It's nothing about that surprising.

But I know we are at the end here, so sometimes I have to keep things on the rails with blurry creatures in general. Just make sure we get our time. Let it go. Just let it go. I know this is, we're bleeding over right now. So I don't know, you know,

not being in the room if we want to do a quick couple questions, or if we want to, kick off the next session with questions or how you guys want to do that. I would like two. We're kind of at our time here. If I have two more minutes, I want to finish the two minutes, to finish the narrative. That's 10. That's 10 minutes. Two more hours. I need two more days. Time will work for him. Tim? Tim? Tim's on Tim. I think it's really important. I think it's really important. We've gone so far. The days a thousand years or what? It would just be a shame

without completing the narrative. And just give me two minutes. Here we go. So we're all familiar with Atlantis. We're all familiar with Plato's Akhen of Atlantis. We're all familiar with the Greek mythology. And what happens in the beginning? The Greek gods come and they look at the earth and what do they do? They apportion the earth amongst themselves. Each God takes, and again, Greek mythology, each God takes a portion of the earth for himself and he does what? In many of the cases, if not in all of them, he marries a human being. Let's be specific. rather Poseidon. Poseidon takes for his allotment. He takes the area, the island of Atlantis, or the region of what would become Atlantis.

And what does he do? It becomes enamored of a human woman. He copulates with her. She gives birth to 10, to 5 sets of twin sons, who there are very strong indications that those sons are giants, including among them is Atlas, who's the leader of the king of the giants, what I would consider giant kings. And then what happens? And this is not just happening with Poseidon. All the gods are going to their respective realms, and they're building. Poseidon builds Atlantis.

He raises this kingdom, and his hybrid offspring are governing. Not him, his hybrid offspring are governing in his realm. And what happens? Over here you have Athena. Athena does the same thing. Athena chooses her area, her allotment, which is over in Athens, and she builds this civilization, and she has her people who were the Athenians. And then what happens, according to the Greek mythology,

their kingdoms go to war. They go to war. This is the legend of Atlantis. And the Atlantians, they were so fierce that nobody could withstand them, and they were just steamrolling all of their neighbors until they encountered the Athenians. And they were locked in this conflict, and I believe that, and there's even indications from Plato,

that the Atlanteans were a very advanced civilization, and there's a lot of reasons to believe that in the Greek mythologies. And so you probably have these high-tech civilizations. High-tech, they would have had a different technological stream than we have today, so you're not talking about combustion, you're not talking about cell phones and laptops. It's a different stream of technology. We don't have time to talk about that today, maybe tomorrow. And they're going to war with one another.

Yeah. Way to bring in a distraction, Luke. What's all? What's up? Right when this thing is about to get bloody. You bring in your... Child, innocent baby, child. So these kingdoms are going to war with one another.

That's why I took his headphones off, Tim. Yeah, the kingdoms of the gods going to war with one another. They're hybrid off-strings. The kings of the kingdoms, the rulers. They're locked into this conflict. And then what happens? Cataclysm. Atlantis is destroyed in the day.

in the night by a massive flood and tidal waves and this earth-shattering cataclysm. Where did that story come from? That's the story of the antediluvian world, according to the Book of Vena. Exactly the same thing happened with the watchers. They divided the earth, they each took an allotment of planet Earth, and they built their kingdoms. This is what I call the empire of the gods. In the beginning, it was unified. That means the technology was universal.

Why do we find megaliths built the same way all over the planet? Yeah. Because it was ubiquitous. The knowledge, the technology was ubiquitous. It was universal because it was the empire of the gods and the offspring of the gods. And so they were building with the same technology. And I don't think that there was, you know, all the civilizations, the human beings who were subjugated to these civilizations to these kingdoms were advanced.

They had advanced knowledge. Rather, I think it was more like the fraternity of the offspring of the gods. The fraternity of the offspring of the gods were advanced. Have you guys ever seen the movie Stargate? Not to show, the movie Stargate. And remember, it's a Bronze Age Egyptian civilization who are subjugated by this extraterrestrial who's pretending that he's Amun Ra, I forget which God exactly.

And his minions have advanced technology, right? But the rest of civilization is Bronze Age. So it was probably something like that. And part of the judgment of the watchers would they would have to witness the destruction of their beloved sons and so the angels God dispatches the angels to to cause conflict between them to incite them to war with one another and they go to war with one another and I think we're looking at and I'm wrapping it right now

I think we're looking at because this is going to bleed into our next talk and I'll end right here I think we're looking at a high-tech conflict in the anti-deluvian world in the empire of the gods among the offspring of the gods previous to the flood and that is explains, I believe, some of what we find around the world in regard to megaliths. Period. Thanks, gentlemen. We're only seven minutes over.

That wasn't bad. Yeah, I know. Well, I think we can all agree, and this might certify my singleness, but women create problems in all realms. Just kidding. Just kidding. Nate's not making it out of here life. Just kidding.

No, but thanks gentlemen. I know Genesis 6 is It's like the Rosetta Stone of understanding the Old Testament a lot of these big topics and We provide some comic relief From time to time, Lou. But it's very serious, so make a break and we're going to be back. We still got 10 minutes so.

Talking megaliths. No, no, it's Joel. No, it's you. Oh, it's me? Yeah, there it is right there. You ended with megalith in too. Well, I wouldn't have bleed it to my own time if I knew I was next. Humility.

That's a good transition.