Blurry Creatures - EP: 307 Echoes of the Abducted

Episode Date: March 4, 2025

Erin went camping for a quiet escape into nature—but she woke up to a mystery she still can’t explain. Sometime in the night, something took her, only to place her back in her sleeping bag… in the opposite direction. That’s how she knew it wasn’t a dream. No tracks. No sounds. Just a deep, unsettling knowing that she wasn’t alone. Her next camping strip got even stranger when short 3 foot beings began popping from behind trees and communicating with her. Things didn’t end there. Craft appearing in the sky, sometimes so close she could feel them. For almost a year, the encounters followed her—like they were watching, waiting. She was also told she had an “implant" in her leg. What really happened to Erin? And why did it feel like they weren’t done with her? Listen in as we dive into her story—because sometimes, the night takes on more than just your dreams. 👕 Merch from "Blurry Creatures" https://www.blurrycreatures.com/store Become a member! https://blurrycreatures.supercast.com Full Episode Here: https://youtu.be/DuMMqlb53H0 Get our Book of Enoch! https://amzn.to/4gpV4yZ Listen to Blurry Creatures: Apple Podcasts:https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/blurry-creatures/id1526885135 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5uPilMKgeZRAJ2AVwSdFRL?si=f42b58855ac7417e Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/3Pqrl9X... Website: blurrycreatures.com Blurry Creatures Socials https://www.tiktok.com/@blurrycreatures https://www.instagram.com/blurrycreatures https://www.facebook.com/blurrycreatures/ https://www.twitter.com/blurrycreatures/ Special Thanks for Platinum Members! Joshua Drummond Maureen Munoz Amber Freeman Nicolle Benz Zach Mills Adam Dougherty Desiree Nichols Kate Logan Kimberly Lee Fayola Shakes Suzanna Wenzel Kent Denmark Michelle Watkins Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Luke's so often, people email us, and they have this story. They're out in their woods, and they're looking in the bushes, and they go, what's that? And when you are pouring your dog food and your dog's bowl, that's the last thing you want to say. What is that? What is this stuff coming out of this bag? You know, I don't think a lot of us think about maybe what we feed our dogs, and that's why we partner with rough greens.

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If you're like me and you want to get some new threads for the summer, refresh your wardrobe at Quinn's. Go to quins.com slash blurry for free shipping and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada. You're in America's hat. You want the goods. You can get it now. Go to Q-U-I-N-C-E dot com slash blurry for free shipping and 365 day returns. Quins.com slash blurry. And I know this is an audio podcast, but like I'm holding my phone. This is my head in my sleeping bag when I went to bed. When I woke up, my body had down a 180 and I was about 20 feet from where I'd originally

gone to sleep. So like everything had moved. I had three girlfriends with me. And we set up camp, got there pretty late. It was nighttime, built a fire, just hanging out four young girls. And that's the first time that I saw them. That's the first time that I saw. extraterrestrials, other beings, aliens, whatever you want to call them.

And I looked up in about 40 feet away, there was a pair of eyes that came out from behind a tree. And they were short beings, probably three feet, three feet high, large almond-shaped eyes. The eyes were glowing kind of golden yellow, golden white. They were beautiful eyes, but large. But the moment that I looked up, this being went back behind a tree. Yeah. Well, I just, I want to like, not wearing a hat and Hatman sounds kind of freaky, but I want to take my hat off to you both because honestly, it is so incredibly refreshing to see open-minded Christians. Because I, you know, I think my, I've been privy to the ones that are very fundamental and it's, it's, I'm sure you've experienced those guys too.

And it's just, it's so refreshing. You know, it's like, okay, there's more. And when you talked about it earlier, that we all feel like, okay, there's got to be something more. And that that's our common thread that I feel like ties us all together. Like we all know that there's something more. And for you guys to be open to exploring that and providing a platform to just openly and vulnerably and authentically discuss it, dude, that's gold. So honestly, like, yeah, yeah. Welcome back to Blurry Creatures.

This episode kind of reminds me of early days of blurry creatures. when we would talk to people about their experiences and we were kind of on the journey of learning things. You know, obviously, if you had experiences with strange things from UFOs to creatures come out of the woods, telepathic communication or whatever it is, sometimes we don't know what doorway we've opened to have these experiences. And keep it open to mind with Aaron's story and understand that as, you know, Christians, we talk about some things that people can easily kind of judge us or say, oh, these guys are whatever, but, you know, everyone is trying to figure it out. We, I guess what we are a part of, this is a spiritual story. We, those of us that are Christians, we believe in some pretty wild things. And sometimes we divorce ourselves from the spiritual

part of our faith and then we get judgmental towards people. So, Aaron had a, it seems like a good chunk of time in her life she had some wild encounters, close encounters with UFOs, aliens, entities, being on a craft, et cetera. So listen to her story and she was very encouraging to us. And so I appreciate the vulnerability and the willingness to share. Sorry, that was a long intro, but I just wanted to give a caveat to people who've listened for a while. Sometimes we throw stones really, very quickly. Yeah, this is wild, right? I mean, this is what I love about the show is that We've got these stories that help create this bigger picture that we're trying to put together an understanding some of these weird things. Aaron's story is really unique.

I didn't anything like that before. You know, pieces of it. But, you know, she told before she maybe told 10 people this story before she sort of haphazardly, you know, mentioned it on Instagram. So shout out to the blurry fans who told her to come on the show. And thank you guys out there who listened to her podcast and commenting on all these podcasts. These people who have blurry experiences and you are a big part of the content that comes out on the show because people are like, oh, these guys seem cool. I'll tell my story to them. So thank you.

Whoever told her to come on blurry creatures. You ambassadors of blurry. You. Thanks so much. Let's get here on the show. Let's listen to her story. Yeah. The history of our earth is so different from what we can imagine.

Joy to join. It's a Smithsonian. And if they found out about large skeletons, somewhere was to go get it. I'm going to assume at least one person is right, because if one person's right, it bust the paradigm. It all goes back to the fallen chair.

And the problem with the modern day church, they have a very truncated view of the supernatural. This backdrop that's just pregnant with all kinds of meaning associated with this Mount Herman event. And this guy defects from the kingdom. That's a big deal. All right, we're fresh off a, got a few sunburns,

fresh off Costa Rica trip. We're back in America. We're back in the blurry verse talking about all the strange and paranormal. Welcome to the show, Aaron. Thank you for coming on. You have a personal story that kind of connects

a lot of the things we talk with experts about. People write books. There's missing 411. There's abduction stories. There's people who have thoughts on UFOs, and you have sort of a blend of all these things. We'll let you tell your story in a minute. But we kick it off.

What are your thoughts on Bigfoot? You grew up in Michigan. So maybe there's some rumblings. There's some blurry creatures up in Michigan. Welcome to the podcast. What do you thoughts on Bigfoot? I've never had a personal experience with Bigfoot. That's not to negate those who have. So, yeah, I've got no direct experience of Bigfoot. Yeah. He's up there in the up there.

I think it's in the U-Pers. You might be in the Upper Peninsula. That's probably a good spot on them in North Lodge, yeah, way up there, yeah. Yeah, but your story is not about Bigfoot. It takes a hard turn into some of the heavier stuff that we talk about on our podcast. I mean, obviously, we appreciate you coming on the show and being vulnerable and willing to tell our listeners what you've experienced. Because a lot of these things, you know, people get little glimpses of a UFO here and there. A lot of people don't have, like, close encounters and very up and personal where they have to, like, kind of convince themselves that what's happening. They sort of see it from a distance and that's that.

But your story is much more heavier. I don't know where you want to begin, but... Yeah, where do you want to start? Well, at the beginning, I suppose. I was 19. And, you know, you guys guide me through this story, you know, like more details, like, let's move on or whatever. But I was since the age of 15 definitely searching for what I call the truth. You know, I was like, who am I? Why am I here? What's the meaning of life? Like, I wanted these answers.

And so I sought them. And so I took off traveling. I kind of did the hippie thing. You know, I had the van and the backpack and the dog named Eclipse. And I went. And I ended up in Arizona, which is funny because that's where I was. I'm at right now talking to you guys. And here we go. So one night I was in Prescott, Arizona, and I took one month to just like get away from society and I camp by myself on the forest floor, not even a tent. And I would cook over the fire and I just kind of like retreated from society to try to find myself, I guess.

I don't know. I was 19. What am I doing? So one night, I think I'll use a prop here in his. suck. One night I went to bed and, you know, this is funny because when things like this happened to people, the logical mind kicks in. You're like, no, no, no, you did not see that. This did not happen. Like, it was just a dream, but it was a day. But one night, I went to bed and I had this, I had a dream. And in this dream, I went, I was on another planet. There was only

sand on this planet. It was like a desert kind of. But however, there was this little, oh, I got chills. All right. So there was this little glow worm. And, and, And it was glowing greenish yellow. And as I looked at it, it transformed into like a grasshopper. And it was glowing greenish yellow grasshopper kind of breathing. I was like, all right, whatever. And I look again. And it transformed into a glowing greenish yellow alien fetus.

Large, large eyes, large head curled up in a fetal position. And it was breathing. So it was alive. And instant fear. I mean, I freaked out. And I was like, no, no, no. Because it was the new age. It's the 90s, you know?

And so it's the new age. movement and I was like no no no love not fear and so I like did my best to beam at love and when I did that it transformed into this like seven foot high being if it kind of had hair was dark hair huckmarked skin very dark eyes everything was telepathy and he said it was masculine and he said come here I want to show you something and he takes me over and in this spaceship and it was like just like you would see on TV kind of it was like this round very futuristic spaceship, we kind up this ladder to get into it. It was very stark on the inside, lots of gasmos and widgets and lights and like operational stuff, I guess. And there were two

stools. And he sat me in one stool. I sat in the other. They were facing each other. And he took his knee and started kind of like putting it where it shouldn't go. And I was like, no, no, no, stop that. You get it, right? Yeah. Yeah. And I was like, stop that, you know. And at my will with my, you know, telepathy, he stopped. But it was more of like a curiosity like, what does this do or something? And then it takes me over into the edge of the spaceship. And we look up and there's this shoot, this like long, empty tunnel. And it went up into the sky and I saw all the stars.

And he says, we can go out of this world. And then that sentence reverberated in my consciousness. We can go out of this world. We can go out of this world, like over and over. And then I wake back up. Here's the thing. I'm going to use a prop. And I know this is an audio podcast, but I'm holding my phone.

This is my head in my sleeping bag when I went to bed. When I woke up, my body had down a 180, and I was about 20 feet from where I'd originally gone to sleep. So, like, everything had moved. Sometimes it feels like when you get that phone bill, it's like the crash site document. You can't read it. There's a bunch of numbers, random fees, vague language, stuff's blacked out. You're like, what am I actually paying for?

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I was still in my sleeping bag. And so, you know, I was like, what the heck just happened? Because, you know, even what? Nearly 30 years later, it's still very vivid. And I thought, okay, thank goodness, that was just a dream. It was just a dream. But I was freaked out. And so I got in my van.

I drove to town. I was like, I'm getting out of the woods. And I went to this coffee shop, this cute little coffee shop. called the Full Moon Cafe. And there was a guy there, a guy that I had had a brush on. So I was like, hey, I want to share this like dream that I had with you. And I, we sat out on the sidewalk with our, with our tea or coffee. And, you know, I did this back then.

I don't know if I should say it. You're ripping heaters. I were smoking. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, just tobacco. So I was smoking a cigarette. And America.

The smoking darts. It depends where you're from. American spirit. Yeah. American spirits. Yeah. So I dropped my pack of American spirits. I'm like, I'm like, I've got to tell you this dream I had.

And then my smoke's dropped. And as I bent down, this is all a weightfulness. This is 3D reality. Stone cold, sober. And as I went to pick up my cigarettes, a Jeep pulled up, rolls down his window. The driver takes out a gun and goes, bam, bam, bam, bam. And he shoots three times. The window behind where my head would have been had I not bent down.

Shattered. Everybody in the coffee shop was like, of course, I'm very good in crisis. And so I was just like, oh, 911. They did. The police came. Obviously, the Jeep tore away. As it turns out, it was just a paintball gun. It still would have hurt at close range. But the window still cracked. Like it was just, it was weird. Like frozen paintballs? I don't, I don't even know. Yeah. A sadistic, Nate, you didn't even know about that. Well, I mean, I'd never heard of a paintball gun like breaking a window. Dude, they can come hard, dude. I got, I had wells. I saw scars from paintballing with my shirt off. That's an aside. I know, the skeptics.

You always got to like, the skeptics are always asking questions. No, but I mean, they would freeze those paintball guns sometimes to shoot frozen ones and it hurts like crazy. So what happens next? So my friend, my friend says, whatever you were going to tell me, he thinks it's somehow related, you know, and I'm still skeptical. I was like, ah, it's just like kids being stupid, whatever. And he says, we need to go into the woods. You tell me this story in the woods. I'm like, all right.

So off we track into this national forest, 20 minutes in, I'm like, okay, last night, I had this dream. And the moment that I opened my mouth again, three unmarked black helicopters start circling overhead. And my friend turns to me and he's just like, run! So we start booking it through the forest. And everywhere we heard, the choppers were following us. until finally after maybe 45 minutes, we found this boulder, we hit under the boulder,

and we lost the helicopters. And by this point, we're lost. Like, we're completely turned around. We managed to get out of there. We found some hikers. They gave us some water. They said, get out this way. Never to this day have I told that guy my story.

I never got to. We just kind of like went our separate ways. I was like, dude, I'm getting out of press stuff. Like, this is starting to get really strange. So that night I drove to Sedona, which we all know was a pretty high energy spot. I had three girlfriends with me. And we set up camp, got there pretty late. It was nighttime, built a fire, just hanging out four young girls.

And that's the first time that I saw them. That's the first time that I saw extraterrestrials, other beings, aliens, whatever you want to call them. And I looked up in about 40 feet away, there was a pair of eyes. came out from behind a tree. And they were short beings, probably three feet, three feet high, large almond-shaped eyes. The eyes were glowing kind of golden yellow, golden white. They were beautiful eyes, but large. But the moment that I looked up, this being went back behind a tree, the tree.

And I was like, okay. Did your friends see him? Oh, eventually, yes. Because every time I looked up, my first thought was, oh, my gosh, it's aliens. And I was like, no, it's a coyote. It's just an animal. You know, still the logical mind's trying to discount. So you don't believe your previous encounter by yourself in the woods yet.

I'm still 60% that was a dream. Like in 40%, oh my gosh, like was I abducted? And so every time I looked up, these pair of eyes were starting to multiply. And so one became two and then I look up and then hide behind the tree. And then I look up again and it would be four beings and then eight. And then by the time I realized, I know what's happening here. Like there's literally aliens surrounding us. And the moment that I kind of sent that or had that thought, like I see you, about 40 of them

banned out around us in a semi circle. And we're just like sitting there watching. So I elbowed my girlfriend. I said, Heather, look, do you see this? And she absolutely saw them too. And then I told the other two girls and Heather was in three. She's like, oh my gosh, alien. She thought it was super cool.

And the other two girls went into utter, utter fear. And they just froze. They hid in their sleeping bags. They were like, they were freaked out. What time is this? Probably 11 p.m. Yeah, 11 p.m. midnight. And then I started communicating with them, like just with telepathy.

And I was just like, why are you here? And the answer, we're just here to observe. Are you going to harm us? No. You have nothing to be. be worried about. And so I was almost kind of like translating their message to my girlfriend. And they couldn't hear it. No, it was all like, it was all through me. So basically they were just there to observe, allegedly. And they never came closer. They never, I was starting to get so

comfortable with them. I was like, come on over by the fire. Let's hang out. You know, let's like swap stories. So you're, so you're transitioned at this point. You start to connect the dots. between your last experience and this experience. Yeah. Yeah. A couple of things that was interesting your story so far, Aaron, is that, like, what you experience, I'm sure you probably get to this, what you experienced in the first dream about being in a different position and different places.

Actually, we've heard this quite a bunch about abductions where people will come back in their clothes will be put on backwards or wrong or they'll be laying sideways on a bed and they'll wake up or on the floor or backwards or upside down in bed, if you will, like. Or their clothes will be like folded. There's a lot. Yeah, they're weird stuff like that. But that's, we've heard that before, which is really interesting. Then

Sedona, Sonona's actually the only place I've ever seen. I've had a UFO sighting, if you was in Sedona. That was nothing like this, but. We just interviewed a guy that had, in Wyoming had his same experience. He was camping with his buddies, his brothers, and then.

Well, not the same experience, Nate, but like he was camping. Similar. Yeah. UFO shows up, then the government craft come circling around. Yeah. What was your buddy doing that? He saw a black helicopters thought he was going to run. He hadn't told him the story yet. They know.

Like they found me? You're like, what are you running from? I don't know how, but they found me. He was selling pinball machine parts, too. Yeah, Dr. Emmett Brown. So, yeah, it's kind of a stringing together. So now you're, this is kind of your third experience here at the campfire. In this point, you're not scared.

You're just kind of like, they're like, hey, come hang out. Let's play some kumbaya or whatever. Yeah, Luke, it was super weird. Like, I wasn't. I was scared when I'm that seven foot guy. Like, he was kind of scary. But these little three foot guys, I was not scared. And from that night forward for about the following year,

while I was still, you know, in Arizona kind of traveling and doing my thing, I would go outside to have a cigarette and inevitably I would see the starships. I would see the spaceships just come and hover right in front of me. I mean, we were talking 50 feet away and they were silent and they were beautiful and graceful. And they would spin and move in the most like incredible directions that like nothing I've ever seen could do that. And they would just like hover there for a while and then they did fly off. And I saw the spaceships countless, countless times. Sometimes my friends would see them with me.

But mostly it was always when I was alone. So obviously I started thinking, am I, dude, am I like to lose in my mind here? Like am I just hallucinating? Yeah. So when you're just to cap off the last story, you're there camping, are you're watching these beings the whole time kind of. circle around and half of your friends are hiding and you're seeing three foot ones and seven foot ones you said the three foot ones were the ones in uh that i saw in this reality in this like 3d reality

and um the seven foot one was what i quote the dream you're trying to you're trying to communicate them telepathically then then what happens they just leave or is it like you guys you guys leave or how does that resolve itself they didn't go they didn't go anywhere we ended up falling asleep which is a miracle that you were actually able to sleep. We ended up all falling asleep, probably around one or two in the morning, woke up in the morning, you know, they're gone. I did see them again one other time, also in Sedona. I was with some friends.

They were unfortunately doing some really hard kind of like hallucinogenic drugs. And I wasn't. I didn't, you know, I didn't want to. And so I was kind of the caretaker. I was like, let me look after you guys. And that night I was starting to get pretty overwhelmed because they were doing really stupid stuff. They were walking into the river.

They were walking into the fire. They were just completely off their head. And that night in my moment of overwhelm, I look up and yeah, about 10 feet away, the little guys were there again. And I was like feeling like this supportive strength or energy from them. It's like they were giving me good vibes to be able to get through the night and like care for these people and I just felt love from them, actually. When you need to build up your team to handle the growing chaos at work, use Indeed

sponsored jobs. It gives your job post the boost it needs to be seen and helps reach people with the right skills, certifications, and more. Spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all your boxes. Listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsor job credit at Indeed.com slash podcast. That's Indeed.com slash podcast. That's indeed.com Terms and conditions apply. Need a hiring hero? This is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs. Yeah, that's the same story of the guy, the camper in Wyoming, Cody.

He was kind of describing a similar feeling that he was having. And so you're just having these experiences since, so you go back into town, you're not camping anymore, and then they kind of follow you, and they kind of keep showing up. Yes. And then where's your mind? at that point? Are you fully like, okay, somehow I've made contact, something they want to communicate with me? And telepathic communication is pretty common. It reminds me of a story. We interviewed this guy who, his dad was a Mormon and he was on a mission in Roswell. And he said,

he saw when that UFO crash, he could telepathically hear what they were saying. He was like over observing it. Take that story with what you will. But these being, things, even Bigfoot, will communicate same way. Really strange, right? They can talk to us. Sometimes we can talk back, but I don't think we know how to do that, but you're having visitations. And I'm curious to ask some questions about what you're seeing then. Yeah, I definitely started believing. I was like, all right, this, like, come on, there's too many, too many solid things going on here. And so I did go through this period where I started to feel almost more connected with them than I did with like our humanity because they seemed so advanced

and so full of light that I would just like anytime I felt ever slightly so low or something I'd go outside and I'd see the spaceships and be like hey what's up guys it just became my new normal there's more and I don't know and I'd love to hear from you guys if anybody's ever talked to you about implants. Oh, yeah. A bit episode on it recently. I just did an episode like four or five ago. We got an email, actually.

There's a funny thing. We got an email from a doctor in Alabama that just found an implant. Did you see that, Nate? No. It might have been the Facebook group. We have a doctor in our community that basically found, which you believe being an implant in somebody. This is in the last couple of weeks.

Yeah, they're like little metallic implants and they move. And they kind of also some sort of camouflage themselves or hide in people. they can't they can't be found sometimes it's really strange where in the body was the implant do you know that one was in the leg it was like over near the knee it's like very matrix kind of things you know yeah man do they know what they were for are they like tracking devices or like what's the point some people think they're trying to figure out our biology it's like measuring all of our our maybe it's tracking device um i don't know some people think it's kind of like they're trying to biohack us yeah because i mean i

Obviously, they can track us. I don't think that would make a lot of sense. They know where we are. That technology seems very basic to them based on what we've heard they have and what they can do. I think it's some bio metrics. I found an email here. Okay. Want to read it?

It was, yeah, it says I'm a doctor and have a patient that had some missing time. He has a scar over the back of his ear that looks linear and doesn't remember having an injury or surgery in that area. Did an ultrasound in my office and there's a small piece of metal under the skin. I think it might be an implant. anyone have any advice for how to navigate this? And it's very similar to the things we heard with L.A. Marsouli when we talked about his stuff on implants. A lot of people also say in the nose,

they have like encounters in the nose and they have nasal cavities or they'll wake up bloody noses. We had some wild stories. I remember one girl, she was a twin, and she had a visitation at night, and they gave her a blue vial, made her drink this blue stuff. And then she developed all these health issues for years,

and her twin sister didn't have it. have any of those health issues. So there's a lot of nefarious stuff going on that seems like they're trying to collect our, trying to see what we are, how we're made. I think that's what they're up to. But it's hard to say who's, who hates us and who doesn't hate us. I don't know. The more you do this, the more weird it gets.

Yeah. And I love, I love that you're doing it anyway. Yeah. trying to figure it out trying to help people what about implants are yeah all right so you know I'm still in Arizona now I'm down in Tucson and this this older man comes up to me we were kind of like at this daytime barbecue party and when I say I mean I'm 19 everybody feels older than me at that at that point and this guy comes up to me and he says hey can I do Reiki on you what I'm 19 I have Reiki what is that?

You know, I'd never heard of it. I karma, all these, like, words, I had no clue. And so he kind of explained just like an energetic healing, blah, blah, blah. And I was like, yeah, sure, why not? So I closed my eyes and his hands are above my body. And he starts to go down my body. And he gets to my ankle and he just stops frozen. And it was like I knew what he was going to say before he said it, which is super weird.

And he just says, sister, I'm sorry to tell you, but you have an alien implant in your ankle. And I was like, I knew it. Like, I just, I don't know. I just, you know, the intuition thing. I just knew it. And he's like, listen, I know a medicine woman up in the north of Arizona. She can help you to like deactivate it or whatever. And I was like, heck yeah.

Like, I don't want this thing. And so I went on this journey trying to find this, quote, medicine woman, which also I didn't know what that was. And he says, you're not going to be able to find her. She's cloaked her driveway. I was like, this is wild. Yeah.

And so sure enough, I managed to get a ride up north, five hour drive. And we are driving up and down this dirt road six, seven, eight times. There is no address. There is no driveway.

I'm like, what the heck, man? And when I gave up, all of a sudden, there was a driveway. I was like, I drove by the six,

like it was somehow, I don't know. I don't get. I can't explain it. So as I'm driving into the driveway, this lady's pulling out in her van. And I waved her down. I said, hi, my name is Aaron. And I start crying because I'm, you know, I don't want an alien implant in my ankle.

And I said, I need help. I understand that you can help me. And she's like, I can't. I'm really sick right now. Like, I don't have the energy. And I said, I just drove five hours to find you. Like, you need to help me. And so she, she attempted to help me, whether.

she did anything or not, I'm not sure, but basically she started pulling down these crystals from her shelves, waving them around in the air, they were wrapped in purple velvet, and she changes her voice. I guess she was what's called channeling. I've never heard of any of this stuff. And she says, I am Serapis Bay, which is apparently some ascended master or something. I mean, it's like proper new age movement, you know, and I'm just rolling with it. And they said, yes, there was an alien implant in my ankle and that my higher self had requested that it be put there because I was evolving too quickly. And I didn't have like the structure of the support system for like my own evolution. So dude, I mean, who knows? And upon my request, I can have it

deactivated. And I was like, yeah, like, that's the whole point. Like I want to evolve, deactivate this. And so she said some more words. And that was. was that. I paid her some money and then and then left. Wild. I've so been curious to see if I went to a doctor, if there is something that could be shown on an x-ray or an ultrasound in my ankle. And maybe, you know, maybe after this conversation, I'll do that and check that out. Did you have any activity after that moment? Yes. I would still see the spaceships. Yeah. Is that still going on there? Do you still see them or is it the stuff at some point? I don't see. them anymore. I've had a couple of dreams, you know, where they'll be hovering around,

like in my night's sleep. But no, I have not seen them again shortly thereafter. Now at McDonald's, a McDonald's is 250 so you can get your gym gains on or just get lunch for only 250. Get more value on the under $3 menu. Limiting time only, prices and participation may vary prices may be higher for delivery. Bada-b-b-b-pup-b-b-b- Then what stopped shortly there after or like how long ago was that? That's a good question. Maybe a couple months later, I stopped seeing the spaceship. And I also found my meditation group.

And I, you know, I went full bore. I went on this like six months, eyes closed meditation where we're meditating 10 to 12 hours a day. It was pretty full on. And so I went through that. And I've never seen them sense. I've seen other things, you know, like the celestial realms and stuff, like fairies or angels or things. or things like that, but I've never seen that ETs or the UFOs again. When do you see that stuff?

Hold on. When do you see that stuff? When do you see the fairies and the angels? Yeah. I want to get there. Okay, we can get there. I have a question. When you first saw.

My brain says, we'll forget things. I know. We never got back to that. We'll get back to fairies and angels. When you first see the craft up close, can you describe that? Because most people don't. Most people don't think this is a physical phenomenon. They think it's an interdimensional spiritual phenomena.

But these things crash. And so we have a very basic argument on our podcast. Like, how does something spiritual crash and why are people taking parts home and finding pieces of this stuff? So that it sometimes you have to talk. It's like an elementary school for trying to figure out like what is this stuff. And we have to kind of start at the basics. But you saw one up, you saw many up close. And I always wonder why they have lights on them.

So I'd love to hear you. describe that, what they look like. Yeah, and they were different color lights. I mean, they weren't like Christmas lights. They were, I can't remember the colors other than the golden white, but I'm pretty sure there was like reds and blues and stuff as well. And they were just, oh, and they were dead silent. I mean, there's no sound whatsoever for these crafts.

They are super quiet. And they spin. They spin really, really fast as they hover. They're spinning. You think that's creating the light? Maybe. Maybe. Or I don't know.

Do you see lights on them or are they like reflecting and it looks like lights to us? I think that there were lights on them. Okay. Were they all saucer shaped or was a different shape of craft you end up encountering? The ones I saw were all saucers. Yeah. But because it was often nighttime, like because they had the lights on them, You can only see so far beyond.

Like, is it, is it metallic? Is it like, like, I couldn't tell you the material that it's made from. You know, what kind of, like, I would assume some sort of metal. And the movement was just up, down, left, right, back, like, they could go anywhere like, like a hummingbird, you know, or more graceful than a hummingbird. And just the energy that I got from these ones was breathtaking. like it was inviting it was interesting

it wasn't nefarious it was like yeah like they seem advanced and they're talking to you through the craft whilst good question uh no I didn't I didn't have any communication with the crafts

I wish I would have tried I would just be like hey what's up again what's the closest they got to you and how big are they they're big the closest like I'm just looking at 40, 50 feet? Yeah.

Like... You could throw a rock at it. Oh, gosh, yeah. Yeah, and they would always be, they would be so low, like, lower than the tree tops sometimes. Like, very, very close to ground. I don't know. I don't know why they were there. Multiple?

Like, more than one? I only saw one at a time. Okay. And they're just randomly showing up. Mm-hmm. Did you have any physical... reactions as far as like, you know, people who come in contact sometimes will have things like burns

or from things being so close. Did you ever have any sort of injuries, not the right word necessarily, but that's the idea is like, do you ever have any sort of anything that happened to you based on being so close to one of these ships? A bad reaction. I was a really simple.

I don't know. I couldn't bring it to pull that up. No, no worries. Because some of the theories are there like this radiation, so you can get some sort of radiation reaction to them. Also, Dr. Gary Nolan's working on, right? Is it like the, I don't know if you're familiar with his work at all, but he was working with the U.S. government about these injuries that are military,

military folks have had and from encountering UFOs, like literally like radiation cancers, crazy stuff from coming to encounter with, coming, encountering or coming to contact with, you know, UFOs or down to craft, which is really, that's why I wanted to ask is like, it's interesting. And there we talked to Dr. or to Dr. Diana Posulcinate as well about some of the more ancient things like yeah ancient encounters with like saints and stuff that might have had an encounter that was like they burned them or yeah it's it seems like they have the exotic metals basics is like the exotic metals that they have sort of power the ship all they have like spheres and it causes this kind of mini anti-gravity

and then that's why they're able to move the way they are it's more like they're moving in time almost than actually being pushed or pulled. So, strange stuff. And have you gone back into a craft since that first initial night? Do you feel like you have? Good question. No, not to my knowledge. Would you have any other episodes where you woke up and you were like

backwards and dead or something like, yeah, far away, outside? I don't know. No, I mean, I've had some dreams, some very vivid dreams where I'm, I mean, it's kind of like end of the world type dreams where like, dude, there ain't much time left. And they're just, they're just dreams potentially or maybe the end of the world as we know it, like the REM song, you know. Yeah, yeah. But I've had a couple spaceships in the dreams. And it's like they're, okay, so like the sense I get is that they're coming to kind of take away the ones to are or the light, you know, take away the ones who are.

like for love and truth and all of that and they're almost like are out this is the kind of stuff I get from the dreams like a rapture yeah so people think there's going to be something UFO it's split in the Christian church about the rapture happening or not happening it's pretty split and some people think that it's going to be involved that that narrative will be involved in that it's hard to talk about some of these things because it does get dark and gloomy. I mean, I think personally that's why we, I think that's why Jesus is described as the king of kings.

It's like there are other kings, there are other lords, and there's a, there's a whole hierarchy of spiritual stuff, and somebody's got to be at the top of it all. And that's my faith that, you know, the Jesus is at the center and he controls all these things, but it's hard because we're not told a lot of the, how the fundamentals of how all this stuff works. Who's good, who's bad? But the problem, too, is we run into is a lot of the bad guys present themselves as good guys and light. And how do you know? How do you know the difference? I have a question then based on this experience, too, for you. Why do you think you had this, you particularly had this experience? Do you ever, do you, have you thought about that? Like,

yeah. I mean, because obviously you have this dream and then you and you and your three friends, it seems like you're the impetus here. It would appear based, this is your story, but that would be more sort of my perception. We thought about maybe why. Probably not enough. You know, I've always been considered weird, I think, just because I thought differently, I always felt very open-minded. You know, from the age of 15, stuff started happening inside me. I did feel like I was starting to awaken.

I felt like a lot of us just have all these masks that we present to the world. And like, I was hungry to find the real you and the real you and the real me behind all the masks. So guys, all right, I might cry here. You know, and this I put in my in my reel that was on Instagram too, you know, like one of my first points was I never felt like Earth was my home. I never felt like I was kind of at home anywhere. And I've had a lot of different homes. And it was more than that too. I never really felt home in my body.

And when I was younger, I would sometimes look at my hands and I would just be like, what are these things? Like, because there was this part of me that must have remembered or at least hoped for or dreamed that I had more of a freeing existence. Maybe I could fly. Maybe I could, maybe there was only telepathy. And moreover, maybe there was like a place where only existed peace and love and beauty and joy and unity. And there wasn't good and bad and light and dark and like all that stop. There wasn't like this spiritual war going on. And so I really longed for that.

And in my head, I was just like, I just want to go home. I just want to go home. And in my head, it wasn't necessarily some other planet or whatever. And I've come to find out because I'm in my 40s now. Like home is within. You know, and I know for so many like Jesus is home. You know, that's like been a. a bridge for so many people and given them solace.

But so that's the backstory. And maybe I'm only guessing, but maybe because I was so fervently wanting evolution and to wake up, these guys were like, all right, let's, let's give you a little dose of, of excitement and magic here and a little dose of like memory tweaks,

you know, because people do remember things before this lifetime. They, they do. Kayak gets my flight, hotel, and rental car right, so I can tune out travel advice that's just plain wrong. Bro, Skycoin, way better than points. Never fly during a Scorpio full moon. Just tell the manager you'll sue.

Instant room upgrade. Stop taking bad travel advice. Start comparing hundreds of sites with kayak and get your trip right. Kayak, got that right. I'm asking a little bit of a CS Lewis quote. I don't know if you've heard it. But he said, if we find ourselves the desire that nothing in this world can satisfy, most probable explanation is we were made for another world.

And he's contextually talking about that from like a, you know, an idea that we were, we were made for a perfect place for heaven, if you will, and because of the actions in the garden and, you know, what in the intern of sin and evil into the world, there is a part of us that understands this is not it, not all of it, right? This is a, it's almost like shadows of what, of what, what sort of the wholeness of, of, of heaven in, without, you know, without death, without sin, without these things that make this a broken place. I think that's an interesting observation on your part. I mean, very much for a 15 year old. I know we all, you know, when we're our teenage years, we all are trying to figure out our bodies and ourselves and our identities and everything else.

But, yeah, that's what I heard. I mean, it's like, it reminds me of that of that quote, you know, that the idea that we all inherently know there's more than this, right? There's more, and we were made for more. We just end up in this, we're in a broken, a broken place and we're broken people. Interesting. I was just curious that I don't, you know, I don't know. These are, these are, you have a really fascinating encounter. Also fascinating, too, to me is, and we didn't touch on this, but the fact that you have

these incidents right after, whether it just be paintball, but then the helicopters is fascinating. So it's like it almost makes you feel like something did happen. When we've talked to folks that have had UFO encounters, you know, you was in the dream state, but whether you didn't really was you weren't like in the second time or not. They've had the same thing with unmarked black vans. It's like the men and black thing, right? It's like black SUVs, black helicopters. It leads me to think that something showed up for real and you had a real encounter and it really was out there and that and that we were we. I'm not going to put myself in that bucket, but the U.S. government or whoever tracks this,

was monitoring that situation, whatever that was. Yeah, do you think the government was also tracking you via these things? They seemed to know right where you were. I definitely started to feel like, all right, I know too much. I've seen too much. I know too much. And like, I want to, like, they're going to shut me down, you know, or shut it down or whatever.

And I even wondered, too, like, is this even a, governmental operation, you know, like were these ships government operated, like that, but I don't have the answer for that. You know, my intuition says no. They were because of the energy I got from them, you know, I don't get like a super light-filled energy from the government. Yeah, right. Yeah.

But yeah, you know, that even the movie men in black, like, there's a reason. That's not just like entirely fictional, you know? Yeah. No, 100%. And actually what you brought up to is one of the hot debates or the big questions in the space is how much of what people are experiencing seen is sort of the black operations of this technology that perhaps our governments acquired and how much of it is not. Yeah. I think a small percentage of it is the government. And obviously you've had all these experiences that would tell you, you know, that this is way beyond human, human on human.

interaction, you're seeing things. And then you described, I had a couple questions. One, how many times did these things visit you, you think? And when did you start seeing other entities? Because a lot of, a big part of our podcast is kind of categorizing these blurry creatures. You know, there are many different types of creatures. And sometimes people just apply shape-shifting capabilities to angels and they can be whatever they want or demons too. And I'm like, I think these are separate things. I think these are specific, there's certain beings out there that have roles, jobs, tasks, or are a byproduct of some sort of ancient thing and they linger.

It's way more complex. I think about kingdom, phylum family. We all learned like in sixth grade. Like how do you put these in the insult? Yeah, there's like a blurry look of creatures we've got to put out at some point after. Yeah, when did you start seeing other things? I started seeing other things before my encounters. So I started seeing them around 15 years old.

The first one I saw, I was in creative writing class. And I had an amazing teacher. He just really, like, encouraged our creativity. And as I was writing my creative story, there was like this little light flying around my pen. And, you know, I just got something in my eye, but it wouldn't go away. And I, you know, even after I rub my eyes, like this little light was still there. And as I looked at it, I was like, it's a fairy. It was like this little itty-bitty fairy just flying around my pen.

And then so from that moment forward, I started seeing, you know, maybe oros around people or fairies around children, especially. Like, they seem to be attracted to joy and to happiness. And so even if an adult is like laughing, you can see all these like fairies flying around their hair or something. It's like they play in the joy. Yeah, so that was always really sweet. A lot of people. So would you say you're like consider yourself like a seer or not?

I, it's just been normal for me. It's been natural. I don't like labels or boxes. You know, so even dude, even on the real, people are like, you're autistic, you're neurodivergent. I had to like Google like, what's neurodivergent? Yeah, right? You're, you're bad.

You're crazy. Yeah. And so all these like labels, you know, you're this, you're that. you're that and I was like no dude I'm I'm just me like label list so I don't know it was just it was normal for me yeah if your parents ever had any experiences I was curious about like of these if some of these yeah if there's like family lines and some of these because we know that like within counters a lot of people will have their parents even though when they ask them if they yeah there's

family lines of their parents are inducted their grandparents are inducted and it goes on or had these crazy sort of or had sort of crazy encounters even if it's just not necessarily an alien reduction. Yeah, they're looking sometimes. That's why I think my earlier comments about the implants, their biological learning. It's like certain families have permission. It's like they have access to certain people.

Yeah, I got chills. You guys are definitely like intuitively asking these questions because in one of the comments, somebody wrote that, that these can run in family lines. And I never heard that. Well, my father, when I was like maybe eight years old, We were driving down the road in Michigan, and he slams on his brakes. Because right in front of his daylight, and right in front of his car, there was this huge light.

And dad thought he was going to hit it. And so he slammed on his brakes, and then the light just like shoots up into the sky and disappears. And my dad was just like, what the heck was that? He was a postman, you know? He's just like as normal, all-American Midwestern father. And so he goes home and he calls the police. And he goes like, hi, you know, and his like deep voice. He's like, have there been any, you know, trying to be all like macho?

Have there been any UFO reporting in the area today? And of course, the Popeau's like, no, sir. And dad's like, all right, I don't want to be the first. And he hangs up the phone. But he did have that experience. And in my hometown, I think in these 60s, there was a crash. And then, you know, the media tried to. say, oh, it was swamp gases.

Right. Yeah, it's always some ridiculous, yeah, some ridiculous sort of, even more ridiculous explanation. When do you think, it sounds like, you know, you've had these moments where you can see things that are sort of behind the curtain or behind the scenes, but it's not so turned up that it's like, you know, I'm seeing grandma who passed on walking down the hall. You know what I mean? It's not so normal part of your life.

When you have this UFO experience, you have to kind of tell. yourself, okay, this is happening. Because I think some people at a young age can see a lot of things in the spirit realm or how it's described. And so they have a blurry life, so to speak. But you kind of have all these experiences, but it takes you into your like 19s and 20s before you put it all together. What was the difference between these UFO experiences and what you experienced kind of growing up before you turned to put it all together? Yeah. Definitely. my first thought is like definitely a different like different realm or different dimension.

I can't say which one is higher or lower necessarily, but like a different, different sphere, different beings, different operational, you know, motivation and all that. You know, I feel like the celestial realm is, all right, so I feel like the celestial realm is around us all the time, all the time. We just, as humans like, you know, we got kind of dense down here. And so we just don't always see it. But we do feel it sometimes, you know, like the moments that we get chills if we, if we think of somebody who's past maybe or like we feel that like connective love from

somebody who's passed or, you know, so I think we intuitively can feel it sometimes, even if we don't see it. And guys, I really believe that they are here to lend us extra support for for this journey. Sometimes I feel like we just got to kind of. All of them? Or just some of them? Or just some of them. Yeah, I've seen the bad guys, too.

What do you think their motivation is? What do you think? Who are they loyal to? I think they're lost. I think they're lost. I think, um, is it always this deep? Yeah, try to be. I feel like on a Zoom just like shut off and turn back on.

And said recording in progress again. I heard it. Yeah. Oh. Yes, I don't. It literally just shut off and shut back. I've never seen anything like that. Hopefully we didn't lose all that. Oh, man, yeah. I don't think so. We have weird stuff happening on our show like this, Aaron, where just like everything will just like.

Yeah, so those listening to Zoom just shut off and then came back on and said it was recording right when you said, is it always this deep? I got chills. I feel like with the... We've had a lot of weird stuff, I mean, we've had stuff happen. Yeah, like... Hopefully that... Power outages, internet outages,

things fall off the shelves and during interviews. Yeah. Yeah, we'll see. Yeah, I'm... I hope that first part is saved. Should be. If it isn't, we should be. All right.

Okay. Well, thanks for being cool because that's frustrating. So organic that, like, I think what you just said, I was thinking, like, I think with podcasts, it's like, if you lose your vulnerability, you sort of lose your audience, you lose everything. You kind of lose the whole point of what you're doing.

I think some people can fake that and have a following. But the goal of the beginning of this, we didn't really have a website or anything from the beginning, like first year of the podcast because we were just curious, asking questions. And then it kind of turned into a bit of a production. But the heart of it is just try to find better answers to all this. this weird stuff. I don't say what I think you're saying is really interesting. And I mean, it's, it rings true to me.

Like, I mean, we look at, we look at all, you know, everything that we put through our show, we filter through, you know, our own faith and through, but the idea of what we don't see being, Paul says, New Testament, it's more real than what we do see. And I do think that's what we don't understand is there's so much going on around us that, you know, we go to work, we go to work, get the car go to work, back, and you have these sort of things, but there's a bunch bigger story that's being played out and not we don't see. I do think that we do get to see glimpses, whether it be, you know, something like a miracle or you get to, you know, or you actually have an encounter, like you say, where you realize

there's a lot more going on, like, then meets the eye. But I think we're tracking there with you that, like, there's so much, I think that we don't see that's occurring. And there is an, into spiritual war, a battle, an ancient one that's been going on before humans ever arrived on the scene. I think, yeah, I think Nate was saying before we had to cut off, like, what is the, when you say you've seen the bad ones, what does that, are they look different? Are they, it's just the operational? Is there opera, their ammo is different?

Or is it just a, they look gnarly or what? Are they in craft too? Or how to separate? I didn't, I didn't see any. those guys in crafts. I mean, these ones are more like, I guess, especially Western society, we would depict as a demons, you know, like red faces, you know, sometimes they got little horns on a, they, but you know, here's my take on that too. It's like, they seem to come around when I am in a, either I'm like really going big and I'm starting to feel very big. And I'm

starting to feel very, you know, good and expanded. I'm creating a lot. And like it's almost like they come to try to stop it. I've had that. But also with kind of some of that heavier vibrations, like, you know, anger or fear, especially, or depression or, you know, some of those like lower emotional things that we can get, I feel like they can be more kind of like, I hate the word invited because it sounds like we're victims to it, you know, but like invited in with those low energies. And that's why I think too, like if you go to, you know, hate Ashbury or like, you know, that part in Vancouver where there's just all the drug addicts. Like, it's, dude, that is dark, you know. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. So I think we've got to keep our vibe high. It's like there's a lot of talk about how demons feed on trauma, right? And fear, which is what you're saying. You know, this idea that there are, that that's. They're not only other permissions, which I believe that's the case. We give permissions in a sense, but they do feed on a spirit, at least in what I understand they appear to feed on trauma and fear.

It's like a spiritual law almost is like that's their breakfast. Now they search around trying to find it. No weaties for those guys. I did have one like question about, you know, your original experience of being on the craft. Like what do you think these UFOs are? And when you were inside of it, you said there was two seats. And that remind me of a story we heard for like a Hollywood producer. They were trying to get inside of one of these they had.

You know, he kind of got government clearance from his brother or something. I can't remember the story exactly, but he got down. And then it was almost like the controls were hidden from my memory. And then when they were trying to get them to come, they knew they were there, but they didn't know how to access them. But there was two little chairs as if three foot tall beings were flying in these things. And inside the craft is, I've got. kind of curious of what you remember.

I definitely remember a lot of like little light and like little switches and buttons and like I mean you know if you've seen the cockpit of an airplane it's like that times a hundred you know but I don't know as you guys were talking like I actually even wonder if it's not that they're sitting there like

we're going to flip this switch so that we go left now like I don't even think it's like that I've wondered if they're not even controlled but by their mind you know, or controlled by, yeah. That's actually what we just talked about. Aaron in our conference, we talked about psionics. And the idea there's a lot of folks, including there's a recent whistleblower

who talk about, they believe that the craft are controlled telepathically. And there's this whole government project now where they are taking people that are trying to telepathically down UFOs, like take control of them with their minds. and reportedly. But again, I don't know how verifiable it is, but it can happen. Which is really interesting, too, the idea of these are, because there's some stories about them craft being recovered. And these are all, of course, anecdotal stories,

but that there's no controls in some of these. They're just, so how does it work? Well, the assumption is they're able to control it with their minds. Yeah, it's almost like we've figured it out that, obviously we can't shoot these things down with missiles, but maybe we can use our mind and bring him down and kind of figure it out.

It's like a completely different way of trying to figure out the UFO phenomena and I think it makes a lot of sense. But yeah, the mind control stuff goes on. And to come back, I think there is some sort of invitation.

The Cody's story in Wyoming with his brothers, they were using laser pointers to point at these things. And that's something... They're flashing it. They're like, you know, like a...

That was the summoning. So somewhere, some permission is granted, and then they come. It's like they select, you have to do something to, very interesting how these things can start with people, you know? Yeah. I have a, you know, change tack if you want to, but I have a question for you guys. You know, you, I mean, my goodness, you only started this podcast a year ago. Is that right?

No, five years. 2020. This is year five. Oh, you started. Okay. Okay. Five years ago. Yeah.

And so in that five years, you know, I mean, seriously, like to be in a top 100 podcast in the States is that's incredible. So people are clearly, yeah, it's like job well done. And people are clearly interested and they want that otherworldly like blurry creatures. Like what's going on here? Have you guys ever gotten any flack or like people wanting to shut you down or like opposition? That's what I'm curious about. I mean, you know the game right now, because you have something go viral. So all the thing you can imagine, if people like wanting to discredit you or talk you, you know, talk you down, whatever it is sort of like to bury you is pretty standard.

That part is standard. Yeah. There's a lot of people that are trying to figure out these, these phenomena, the UFO stuff. There's a lot of infighting in the UFO community. People are all trying to be the one to break, break the story, and they don't agree. And we deal with a lot of Christians who, I think you can build a following being pretty, there's a whole group of Christians who can build a following, being very judgmental and very fundamental and saying, this is the truth, left or right, and they attack everybody and that's how they

build a following. A lot of those channels attack us. And I think Luke and I are in the middle of like, look, we're Christians, we're trying to figure this all out. But the Bible is so full of strange things and why can't we talk about these things? But the church has become very PG, you know? And so I think what we try to do is marry the paranormal of our faith and the paranormal happening around us and try to be like, if it's, if the Bible is true, then all these things will make sense, right?

We shouldn't be afraid of anything. But it's not an encyclopedia. It doesn't tell us everything that exists ever. It's just a doorway into a kind of like a spiritual war. and we're a part of that. So I, yeah, we get a lot of those channels attack us because we are not just a paranormal podcast. We bring, we try to get better answers to people

and because of that we invite a lot of skepticals, like people who hate God and hate the Christian story attack us and people who are very, very black and white about the Christian story attack us. And so, or people just who don't like conspiracy theories, we'll burn us on the way out. doubt. I would say too, like what you experience, I think is what we experience, which is this. I think when you, when you butt up against someone's paradigm, yeah, like there's, without a doubt, for most people,

there's a visceral reaction. And that reaction is that you have, you're challenging the box that they've created for that they want to live in or for their understanding. It's very comfortable for all humans, all of us to be like, this is where everything fits and I can, I can keep this here. I can wrap my head around this. But what we talk about is like, okay, what if there's something outside that? Yeah, they can wrap their head around a demon or an angel because that's been talked about for eons. But an alien, a spaceship, a UFO, a big foot. No, no, no, we can't have any of that, you know?

I think for most people, though, like when you do challenge that, people's response to something they can't fit in the paradigm is massively visceral for folks. And so they respond out of the anger or control. control too. Or control however that whatever that sort of is pushed out, you know, would be online or anywhere else.

And, you know, for Nate and I, it's always been like, let's just have a conversation. Like, you can, you can throw out anything

you don't believe and that's totally okay. I mean, I think what's wonderful about free speech is that the best ideas should come at the top, right? So have a discourse.

And, but yeah, I mean, yeah, we think about it. We're in the French place. We're Christians in a French place to talk about weird stuff

And for some people, it's a lot. I often say it's the opposite of a church. It's like if we don't tell the truth or we massage it and we make it feel like political, I think that's my podcast of the top media consumption right now is because it's just, I just have to figure out if these two people are lying, not an entire system of curated content is lying. So I think the church falls victim to having to massage the message. to make it palatable for a bigger group. In a podcast, you have to do the exact opposite.

If you do any of that, people tune out. This is owned by NPR or something. I don't want to listen. Super curated, yeah. So you have to be overly vulnerable. It's not a counseling session, but it's like, you're welcome here to say whatever you want to say about what your experience is.

And I think if it gets way out in left field, then we kind of have to decide if should we release this episode to members, people who support the show or should we put this out in the public? I don't know. Sometimes we have that. That's our debate of like we don't want people to feel like we have some agenda other than we're trying to figure this stuff out and answer some of these questions because a lot

of Christians have been abducted and they don't know what to do with that. Okay, I believe in God. I believe God created me. I believe his son came here to save us. But why am I having these alien experiences and why won't my pastor talk about that? Why does he think I'm crazy if I bring it up? And so they come to us and thank God for your podcast because I've had this weird stuff happening in my whole life.

Thank you. And then you have this whole other side of the church who thinks that's a deception. It's a very strange place to be for Luke and I. It's like we're in the middle of this weird blurry verse. I love it though. Yeah. Yeah. Also you also want to like try to feel people out.

So I think your story is so interesting. This is the credit to you is that you're not pushing a book or anything. You went viral accidentally and it was telling your story, right? This isn't like you're looking to like, hey, I've got this film and this book and all these different things. And I've got this big persona online that I'm trying to support and propagate. So that's what I think these stories so interesting and also trustworthy is because when we're here sitting here and we're talking like, why would someone tell their story other than just to tell it? And in your case, you're just like, this was my story. And I have told 10 people.

So I'm not trying to get a book deal at this at the moment. Maybe you are. Maybe eventually, well, this story's great. But I think those are also an interesting sort of, you know, think about what we do is just trying to find the truth, right? And find people that are telling the truth. And let people hear that. Like people, I think trusting people to be adults, thinking adults is what we want to do

and say, hey, you don't have to believe everything. But maybe consider this. And we trust you with the information, you know, the listener with the information to make up your own mind. A lot more people have had similar experiences, Aaron. I would think the more people have had these experiences than the public is allowed to discourse. Obviously, people have seen Bigfoot, people have seen demons, people see weird stuff like Hatman. Very specific paranormal experiences.

It's very, and they don't know what to do with that. Talking about it is helpful, I think. Yeah, well, I just, I want to like, not wearing a hat and Hatman sounds kind of freaky, but I want to take my hat off to you both because, honestly, it is so. incredibly refreshing to see open-minded Christians. Because I, you know, I think my, I've been privy to the ones that are very fundamental and it's, I'm sure you've experienced those guys too. And it's just, it's so refreshing.

You know, it's like, okay, there's more. And when you talked about it earlier that we all feel like, okay, there's got to be something more. And that that's our common thread that I feel like ties us all together. Like we all know that there's something more. And for you guys to be open to exploring that and providing a platform to just openly and vulnerably and authentically discuss it, dude, that's gold. So honestly, like, yeah, yeah. Appreciate that.

Yeah. No, I think that I think this is what the Bible does say that like there are things that we will never understand. There's this and I believe it. Like we have this finite understanding of this vast universe and getting after and talking about these things is what, I think it, contextually, it starts to make things make sense, too. I mean, I think we do as a great disservice if we don't, especially, right? And this is, I beat this drum for a while now, but, and then this is the last thing I'll say, but especially as these things become mainstream talking points in culture that are, that are talking about this in a serious academic manner,

then I think we do ourselves a great disservice as Christians and really baseline as, as humans, and to not really, to not want to figure this out, talk about it, have a discourse around it. So that's the last thing I'll say. I know we're kind of, we're sucking up the area here. Thanks, Aaron. I think that, you know, growing up, I experienced probably 25 different Christian communities. So I had a similar feeling of like, okay, I believe that I'm created and I'm a part of something bigger. And that I long for heaven.

I long for to know who made me because I believe I'm created. I believe this body is beyond an evolved species of something that came out of a sludge or a swamp. Although it's sunburn right now. Sunburn? Yeah. And I, you know, I long for that too. And I think in some ways I wanted, you know, with this podcast to kind of create a place of

sort of the part of the church that I felt like, felt home for me here, here on earth, like, hey, you know, we're all, we're all in this weird journey trying to figure it out. And a lot of people have done horrible things in the name of God, but that doesn't mean I don't believe it. It doesn't believe I don't believe there is a God and there is a family that I want to be a part of because I think that's what it is. We all want to be back in our family. Like we feel like we're lost like we're orphans from some other, you know, and I believe that's God's family. And we want to get back into that. And there's so many wild roads that are hard that feel right, that aren't right. I don't know. And some people can can be very mean and malicious on that,

on that journey to try to find your way back to God. But, thank you for being vulnerable coming on our show. Hopefully we didn't lose this. I don't know what happened. Yeah, it would be crazy. I hope we didn't see. If it did. We tell you this,

the one thing crazy about your black helicopter I forgot about. When I was, my experience in Sedona, I've seen UFOs was on Thunder Mountain. They were going up and down, up and down. My wife and I went next day,

went over to the, where we thought we could go. And, oh and behold, the area where there's in these UFOs we saw the night before. Multiple, there was a fencing and there were a bunch of unmarked

black SUVs guarding that entrance. to where you'd go up to the plateau next to the mountain. And that's where these things seem to be coming down, spinning lights, lights, lights, coming back up. I saw multiple. I actually went on a UFO tour because I thought it was a massive joke. And this is, you know, we do this show, right? But I was like, this is so hokey, but we got to do it.

We're here, you know? And then we saw all kinds of crazy stuff. And then you couldn't go there, which is really interesting considering when you have your experience, of course, you have the black helicopter thing. We try to go up there and there's a bunch of black SUVs and it's fenced off. It's fenced off. Can't go here. What does that mean?

Yeah, they're definitely keeping it from up. Yeah, you can fur a lot into that. But anyway, yeah. When was that? What year was that? We were already doing the show, Nate. A couple years ago, in 2020. Before my son was born, I think it was 2021.

It was either 2021 or early 2022 because we went out there because, yeah. Yeah, most people theorize that that's why some of these places are protected, not because they want to keep the nature natural. pristine but they have there's certain spots hot spots in america and there's there's also an ancient history here in america as well we talk a lot about that on our show like stories of giants and what they were building and there's kind of throws a wrench in sort of the historical narrative that the university's push but that's a whole those are many episodes we've done what's another rabbit hole there nathan yeah and that is how blurry kind of became a wild spider web of weird um

It's good. I like that. I like that one. We'll save that one. That's a good bite. There it is. Thanks, Aaron. Thanks so much. Yeah. Thanks for courage. This is we always say with our folks come on and tell their stories. It's like we understand it takes an immense amount of courage because as you've experienced now, right? You were just doing a video and it went viral and everybody has an opinion than about you and your life and who you are and they don't know you. And the fact that you've shared this with maybe 10 people and now 8 million inadvertently.

But the fact you share your story with us means a lot. We don't take that lightly. Yeah. We appreciate and trusting us with telling your story as well. And yeah, let us know if you have an implant. That would be really interesting about it. I don't know. You have to tell Nate because.

Yeah, shoot us a message. Yeah. We got your email too. Now you can shoot us a message. Yeah. We'll send you some swag. We're seeing a shirt or something too for being on the show. We appreciate that if you want one.

We've got a bunch of the looking creature stuff. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Am I good? to, um, am I good to like, uh, you know, promote this? Like, dude, I was just a story creature. Do it.

100%. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Well. You get when they do when he's coffee. All right. Hang out.

Hey, I got. Okay. Smile, guys. I'm about to take it. Got it. Toothless smile. My wife says when I smile because my mustache is too long as I have no teeth. I got this weird light in here.

Skip that one. Just like a big red ginger in the. Oh, it's very red tones over there, Nate. very red well thanks Aaron yeah thanks so much we'll hit you up if we okay if we lose if we lost the first half we'll call it we'll hit you run in the back hopefully they didn't happen I think that I think the little blit might have just been ending the recording turned a new one I hope that's the case and there's two in the back but we've had I mean you don't

know how many times I got to ask people to redo it because something stupid happened in our recording yeah yeah that was weird that was like that was a moment for sure Yeah, because normally if it dies, it doesn't come back. You have to like restart your computer and then come back and then it's gone. But it like glitched and came back. I'm like, what is? Yeah, let me know. And yeah, just an acknowledgement too, you guys make it a really safe space to talk about all this kind of stuff.

And I'm so excited to like dive into your podcast. I've been here visiting my family. I'm about to become an auntie, which I'm super excited about. my brother's heart lady thank you and um but dude like with my driving and with my flying tomorrow uh i've got like my new podcast i'm going to dive into so i'm really excited about that well thanks there yeah yeah you get sick of our voice you get sick of our voices and be like i don't know i've got to listen to these guys but anyway thanks aaron thanks for your comments and uh great to me yeah yeah thanks for encouragement appreciate that yeah no it's uh

Because, yeah, I'm energy girl. I can, like, feel it. And you guys are, you're pure with what you're doing, A, and B, you're just so open-minded. And so it's just refreshing. Thanks. Yeah. For sure, time.

Peace out. Have a wonderful. Yeah, have fun. Safe travels, Aaron. Yeah, we'll stay in touch.