Blurry Creatures - EP: 340 Decoding the Ancients: Göbekli Tepe, Watchers, and the Oldest Temple on Earth with Dr. Judd Burton & Dr. Aaron Judkins

Episode Date: July 14, 2025

This week on Blurry Creatures, we welcome two brilliant minds—Dr. Judd Burton and Dr. Aaron Judkins—for a mind-bending conversation about one of the oldest and most mysterious archaeological sites on Earth: Göbekli Tepe. In their new book Decoding Göbekli Tepe: Biblical Anatolia and the Watchers, the authors explore the ancient symbolism, spiritual significance, and possible supernatural connections surrounding this enigmatic site in modern-day Turkey. We delve into the theory that Göbekli Tepe was more than just a temple—it was a place of resurrection rituals, ancestor worship, and possibly even the influence of the biblical Watchers. Could this ancient site be linked to the Nephilim? Was it part of a global network of pre-flood civilizations? And what do vultures, phallic symbols, and Luwian hieroglyphs have to do with it? From biblical echoes to supernatural speculation, this episode explores the thin veil between ancient history and the blurry realm of the divine and the forbidden. . Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Go to Q-U-I-N-C-E dot com slash blurry for free shipping and 365 day returns. Quins.com slash blurry. What we all four saw on that summer night, 1988, and the Texas panhandle was absolutely real. And it was beyond any kind of normal aircraft that you would see flying in the sky. It was not an aircraft. It was a very bizarre red light. It was floating pretty low on the horizon in the sky. It was approaching midnight.

I had a curfew at midnight. So I was already running late. So we were trying to get home. He was up on this high bluff overlooked in the river that flows near the town where I used to live in a town called Shamrock, Texas. We were leaving, actually. Two of our friends had gone down the hill. We had to take turns kind of sliding down this mountain back down to the truck on the road. So two of my friends went down first.

Mark and I were kind of standing ready to go. And I told Mark, I said, hey, let's go. And he was looking over my shoulder. And I'm like, come on, man, let's go. And he goes, Aaron, what's that? He pointed over my shoulder. And I just kind of glanced back. I'm like, I don't know, man.

Let's go. Now Mark, he was going to be. an Air Force fighter pilot. So he knew everything about these type of things, planes, and he said, that's not an aircraft. So I turned around and looked again, and it was just low, solid ball of red light floating across the horizon, didn't make any sound. It was, you know, relatively close to us. We were intrigued, and he began to tell me, there's no, you know, red and ring lights on this thing. They're not blinking. It's going too slow to be an aircraft. There's something weird here. So we called our buddies back up the mountain. And we all ran.

over to the fence and we watched this thing float across and then it paused it just stopped in midair and then it did some very bizarre acrobatics and it just zipped across the sky very quickly and then it stopped the history of our earth is so different from what we can imagine the smithsonian that if they found out about a large skeleton somewhere was to go get it i'm going to assume at least one person is right because if one person's right and bust the paradigm it all goes back to the fallen church and the problem with the modern day church they have a very truncated view of the supernatural this backdrop is just pregnant with all kinds of meaning associated with this Mount Herman event and this guy defects from the kingdom that's a big deal all right we're back we're back in the blurry creatures basement this is the fun part about

our show is that you know over the course of years we developed friendship with people, Dr. Jed Burton, is this familiar to you guys out there who've been with us from the beginning as Bigfoot is familiar to so many people who listen to this show. We talk about it all the time. But we have another doctor in the house today, Dr. Aaron Jedkins, who's joining Jedd Burton because they released a book together. And I feel like we need some honorary doctorates, Luke, at this point,

so we can hang out with these guys. This is a house of learning doctors. And we are not. Cops doesn't come on until four, Nate. Yeah, we're closer to more like Dr. Steve Bruill on our end. So it's, you know. You can only hope, bro. That's about as much brains as we bring to this table.

But Dr. Jadkins, welcome to the podcast. That's going to be hard. Judkins and Jed is having to get mixed up today. Yes, the, or the two Judds, I don't know. Yeah. What are your thoughts on Bigfoot? That's the thing I've been trying to get out of mind. It's your first time here.

So you can't, you don't get to escape this. Judd's told us a lot of things. He sung songs. Okay. But we love that. I love that. Jed used to hang out with Grover Cranes, he said. There's all kinds of stories.

Yeah. You know, I, uh, you know, I tend to think that those sightings are real. I've, I've never seen any bigfoot, but, um, I went to Peru with, um, L.A. Mazzoo Lee and, and, uh, a guy named Ron, who is a big, bigfoot researcher. and he's Ron Moorhead. Ron Moorhead. Yeah, Ron Moorhead. Ron's been on the show.

He got a key on the show before Judd did, Aaron. Yeah, he almost got us canceled in the first week. We were in two months and they're like, get these guys off the air. Yeah, who is this? Back when I was doing some work down in Peru and Ron Moorhead was on that trip with this and I got to visit with him quite a bit. And, you know, he has a very consistent. convincing testimony.

It's got a lot of in-depth research on Bigfoot. And so I tend to believe those, that whatever that thing is, it's probably, it's probably real. It's a, you know, I think there's a connection there somehow with, with some of the end time events, perhaps. And I don't know, maybe, maybe aliens, but I don't know. You know, there's, there's, there's a lot of weird things that we still don't understand. I think that's one of them. I'm open to it, though, man. I'm open to it.

Let's go. I don't want to, I don't want to have an encounter, you know, but I'm open to the belief that they, they do exist. I just love it. You go right to aliens. You go right to the deep end. Let's go. And you're just like, where, I mean, that's, that's the funny thing about Bigfoot is the more, the more stories you hear, the weirder it gets. You start weird and you can work back.

You could start with the weirdest explanation. You know, the Genesis 6 account is weird, right? So, you know, Mike Heiser used to say, if, you know, if it's weird, it's important. Yeah. I'm paraphrasing that. There you go. The problem is, it's like, you think you have a litmus for how weird it can get. Yeah.

And you do a show like this. You don't. If you need a doctor's opinion, you don't. You don't. You know, one of the reasons I'm open to it is, because talking about things that are strange, but that are important, just real briefly to rabbit trail real quick,

but I had a UFO encounter when I was 17 years old with three of my high school buddies. I write about this in my book, Alien Agenda, The Return of the Nephilim. But what we all four saw on that summer night, in 1988, and the Texas Panhandle, was absolutely real. And it was beyond any kind of, um,

uh, normal aircraft that you would see flying in the sky. It was not an aircraft. It was a very bizarre, uh, red light. It was floating pretty low on the horizon in the sky. It was approaching midnight. I had a curfew at midnight. So I was already running late. So we were trying to get home.

We was up on this high bluff overlooked in the river. that flows near the town where I used to live in a town called Shamrock, Texas. And we were leaving, actually. Two of our friends had gone down the hill. We had to take turns kind of sliding down this mountain back down to the truck on the road. And so two of my friends went down first. Mark and I were kind of standing ready to go. And I told Mark, I said, hey, let's go.

And he was looking over my shoulder. And I'm like, come on, man, let's go. And he goes, Aaron, what's that? He pointed it over my shoulder. And I just kind of glanced back. I'm like, I don't know, man. Let's go. And he, now, Mark was, he was going to be an Air Force fighter pilot.

So he knew everything about, you know, these type of things, planes. And he said, Aaron, that's not an aircraft. And so I turned around and looked again. And it was just, he, it was just low, solid ball of red light floating across the horizon, make any sound. It was, you know, relatively close to us, our position. And we were intrigued. And he began to tell me, he said, there's no, you know, red and green lights on this thing. They're not blinking. It's going too slow to be an aircraft. There's something weird here. So we called our buddies back up the mountain. And we all ran over to the fence. There was a pasture out,

you know, there with a fence and we could only get as close as the fence. We all stood at the fence and we watched this thing float across and then it paused it just stopped in midair and then it did some very bizarre acrobatics uh i mean super bizarre things that were not normal and it just zipped across the sky very quickly and then it stopped it just came to a complete stop now i remember reaching down and pinching my arm because i thought i was i thought i was dreaming And so I'm like, man, am I awake? You know, I'm pinching my arm. And, you know, I'm awake.

I'm here with my friends, you know, and this is really happening. But nobody said anything, man, we were just dumbfounded. Look at this. It did it again, this kind of second repeat of aerial acrobatics. And then it disappeared, then it reappeared. And then I got the bright idea. Let's go chase it in the truck, you know. So we scurried down the mountain.

We get out across and it's gone. but we kind of figure maybe this is an area across the county. We may be able to get to kind of felt where we saw it. So we zipped out across that way. We got lost. This was, we knew a lot of the back roads because we used to, we used to boot like three two beer from Oklahoma State Lod back into Texas.

We knew all the back roads, but we were getting into an area that, that, uh, we didn't know. And, um, so we were all piled into the truck and, and it was really,

really early, dark out. I told my friend T.J. I said, man, turn on your bright lights. He goes there and the bright lights are on. We hit this ravine. We didn't know it was there. We're not familiar with the road. We're probably going 55 or 60 down this dirt road. We hit this ravine washout, which are pretty common in Texas. It was concrete. You really had to slow down, kind of go across the bottom, they back up. We never slowed down at all, because we never saw it until it's too late. We did a dukes hazard over this thing. We'd land sideways, go. When we're sliding down the dirt road, we pile out, the dust is everywhere you can't see.

We're all screaming, you know, and we get out, and we see that light. It's on the ground, probably, probably a mile from our position. It's pretty flat out there. And we see this light. It's not red anymore, but it's orange, and it has white lights around the underneath side of it. And so, we see, we. Sometimes it feels like. like when you get that phone bill, it's like the crash site document. You can't read it. There's a

bunch of numbers, random fees, vague language, stuff's blacked out. You're like, what am I actually paying for? I don't know about you, but I like keeping my money where I can see it. I like to be simple. I like to be easy. I'm going to be throwing away money on big wireless carriers. You too can say goodbye to overpaying for wireless, get a simple bill. And that's where Mint Mobile comes in. So stop overpaying for wireless just because that's how it's always been. That's what you do. Mint Mobile offers premium wireless service for a fraction of what the big carriers charge. And you get to keep your phone number. Get to keep your coverage, most importantly.

And it runs on the nation's largest 5G network. So the question becomes, why has everyone been acting like this has to be expensive? It doesn't have to be. Dr. Judd Burton's out there dialing up blurry every day, giving us the scoop on what's going on in the academic world and the ancient world on Mitt Mobile. Loud and clear on the job sites, way out in the middle of nowhere, Texas. And if you want to save money, just like the illustrious Dr. Judd Burton, switch to Mint Mobile. If you like your money, say where it is.

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and save up to 20% to get the stay you expected. When you want savings, not surprises. It matters where you stay. Hilton, for the stay. Sit there and looked at it for a long time. My friend had some toy binoculars under his seat. We didn't, you know, we didn't really have any. anything else. So we popped those things down. I got up on the, on the roof of his truck. We're

trying to look at it the best we can with these toy binoculars. And that's how we noticed, you know, the details of the white lights around this orange light on top. I mean, it was definitely on the ground. And it just sat there. We couldn't, we couldn't ever figure out how to get closer to it. And we sat there probably 15, 20 minutes watching it and it just didn't move. Now I was totally missing, missing my curfew. It's approaching probably one in the morning. So I'm like, okay, I'm going to be grounded or something here. Let's go.

So we were headed out of town the next morning. And I told my friends, if you can get back out here and remember kind of where we're at, if you can get back out here at night and see if that lights out there because it's just all oil-filled fashier. There's no kind of billboards or anything out there. And so when I came back a week later, I said, did y'all go back out there? Yeah, and I said, was that light on the ground? They said, Aaron, it wasn't there. So I told you all that, tell you this, that I do believe in the strange and bizarre. So if there's something about Bigfoot, yeah, I think it's probably.

Dude, how was that going home, missing your curfew? Like, man, we saw a UFO. I mean, seriously, this is why I'm late. My mom's up waiting for me. It's like, now it's past one in the morning. I'm trying to sneak in the room, you know, out of the darkness of the bedroom. She goes, Aaron, come here. I said, oh, man, I'm in trouble now because I'd, you know, know I'm thinking you know she goes okay you know why were you late I'm like we're chasing UFOs she just said go to man she didn't even want to hear it you know but I'm like no no I really

wanted to tell her she thought I was making it all up she said go to man you know we'll talk in the the morning it's like it's like a it's like a doggy of my homework you're like come on now but you're like no for real but it was a real account I mean it's a real thing that really happened to us and that that kind of piqued my interest on on that it left a big question work in the back of my brain. We never understood really what it was. We did know this. It was an unidentified flying object. And then the 2008 thing, man, here in the Glenrow Stephenville side here, piqued my interest. So all that say, man, yeah, I think it's probably real. When you say it left an impression on your brain, I think that's important because it's,

I think the sightings that we try to get into on our podcast is somewhere between the class, class B, class A, if you could class these sightings, because it's more than just your siding isn't, you can't just explain it away. You have to kind of work yourself into a, whatever that was isn't something that I know. And whether it's a Sasquash sighting, sometimes they're like, you can't tell what it is or what happened.

But then there are these stories where people say, no, it came right up to me, face-to-face encounter. And we've had a lot of people say those kinds of things. that sort of changes the way you view the world. Plus, I mean, plus having a group encounter, Nate. Yeah. That's that too, you're like, okay, this doesn't happen in my brain. Like, I didn't have like sort of a, you know, a lapse of, you know, cognition or some sort of hallucination.

Yeah. And I, too, I love that. Yeah. I don't want to see a big foot. But let me tell you about this crazy UFO thing I watched for, for two hours. Yeah. Anything bigger than me, I don't really want to meet up with, you know, unexpectedly. including sharks in the ocean and bigfoot's in the forest.

But I think it's a blessing because then you go on to do research, you go on to study the paranormal, you go on to write books about things. You have this experience that kind of shapes your ability to include all parts of the story. What we have in modern academic circles is they exclude all this stuff, right? And so you guys are considered rogue doctors when you talk about, you know, you bring in the Genesis 6 story or you, talk about weirder parts of, you know, the pyramids and, you know, all the stuff is coming out

recently. And I'm sure we'll get into that in this episode. But we're talking about Gaubeckley-Tepi today, which is, you know, um, you know, there's, the enigma. There's no songs that, that Jed can sing about it, but I'm sure his mind is, is working. I know. It's, it's, it's Relic Heavy, Gobeckley Tepe. Come on, Dr. Jed, what do you got? Let's kick this one off. Let's see. Do you know what I think about this, Judd?

I don't know if I may interject. Quebecly Tepe sounds like something you would get this like sort of repeat chorus and like an Irish drinking song. Like one of those old Irish like you, you know, like the whiskey in the jar, like Quebecly Tepe and you kind of have this whole like, that's the way I see it. Luke's got to sing on this one. It does, it does have a Gaelic lilt to. it. It does. Yeah. I guess that's not out of place since there were kiltic peoples later in Anatolia, but I was thinking more along the lines of since it's in Turkey, it's the other end of Turkey, but, you know, it's Istanbul, not Constantinople now. Oh, wow. Here he is. I love it.

I knew you had something in there. But yeah, so Nate said, listen, guys, like we, you guys had a book come out and we'll introduce this properly right before Christmas in 2024, decoding Quebecly Tepe, biblical Anatolia and the Watchers. You guys, you guys have to be. you guys co-wrote this together. You're a good friend, friend of the show, Derek Gilbert wrote the foreword. I know he wants to interject and have you sing that whole song. That's what he's doing right now. I can see him looking at.

But this is great. No, I love this. We've talked about Beckley-Tepi on the show. We did an episode with you, Jed, pretty early on about the Appos of the Watchers. Hugh Newman's been on a couple times with us. He was a buddy out of England. But of course, he's not, we love Hugh. He was like one of our favorite dudes.

but he doesn't come at things from a biblical worldview, which is what you guys did with this book, which I think is so important. If we talk about on the show, we try to look at all these things through the arbiter of truth, through the foundation of truth. There's the biblical narrative. And I want you guys to start wherever you want with this,

because this is an enigma. There's stuff I saw this last week, guys, just to sort of preface this about things that Turkey is apparently hiding from folks about Quebec Leitepe. And this place is an enigma. to our show before, it is a problem with the archaeological historical timeline. It was apparently filled in and covered up. And the rumor is there are multiples of structures like this that exist in that area that have yet to be discovered. So when you talk about decoding

Beckley-Tepi, where do we start with this, guys? Where do we start in? I'll start in and pass the torch off to Erring because I know he'll want to comment on this too, but such a small percentage of the site has been excavated, you know, really kind of less than 10% of this huge, you know, 300 meters square plus site, the slowing of, it's not that our excavations have halted all together, but the slowing down is kind of suspect. it's not uncommon to backfill a site after a season, but you would usually, you know, the way things usually go is you bring in your team

and you excavate whatever area, you know, however far you can during that dig season. And it might be anywhere from, you know, a few weeks to a month or two, at a time. And then you would cover that section with the tarp and fill it partially over the tarp so that you've got a layer of protection for your next season so that all your diagnostically significant features and things like that are preserved so that you can begin your study again and subsurface work the next season.

So that's not uncommon. You just come in and remove the top fill and take the tarp back and then just start over where you left off. That's really not what's going on at Gopekly-TEPI right now. And you don't even have to read anything nefarious into it in most cases because that's That's the process. But what's going, what makes it sort of exceptional like Gobeckley-Tepi, where there does seem to be, and of course there's always politics involved in archaeology.

You can't get around that. But there does seem to be some attempt to obfuscate and slow work that's done on potential other sites within the Go-Bekly-Tepi, you know, sort of sphere that goes, against standard archaeological process. Even for archaeologists and the bulk of them are materialists and naturalists, they don't have a dog in the religious hunt, so to speak. They're very grounded in the hard sciences, and even those guys have spoken up about the very bizarre slowing of the process here, notably the late Klaus Schmitt's wife, who is also an archaeologist,

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Sounds like Hawass in Egypt a little bit. It's about control and about narrative. What I like about what you guys are working on is that, you know, you're bucking the narrative and you're taking a look at this from a biblical aspect from what we can expect. So let's dive into Quebec Leitepe. So obviously this is a temple. I love archaeologists. This is why I want to get your opinions on this.

And wherever you want to start with this. But when people don't understand, for me, it sounds like when the archaeologists don't understand something necessarily, it's always, the default is always it's religious and it's a temple, right? In your minds, what's happening here at Quebec Leitepe, right? And it does appear to be a temple structure that pre-existent agrarian society. So what are your takeaways on the structure? What are your takeaways on purpose? What do you think is going on here as we frame this into the biblical narrative? Well, I'll answer that.

Just to preface a little bit your previous question, Gobeckley-Tepe's is an archaeological site that sits in southeast Turkey. This is in relation to a much bigger complex society that lived back in the Neolithic, the Stone Age. It's called Tass-Tepler, which is a much bigger complex society that lived back in the Neolithic, the Stone Age. It's called Tass Tepler, which is the Stone Hills. There's a dozen of these sites that are very similar to Gobeckley-Tepe. Gobeckley-Capé was not the first one discovered. There were another site with T-Colon Pillar's discovered.

But Gobeckley-Tepe really made the news because of just the sheer size of Gobeckley-Tepe. It's, you know, 20-something-acre site, I think. Dr. Klaus Schmidt, who was originally the first one to excavate that site, I think his inclinations about the site being religious were spot on. And the reason why those answers get defaulted to a religious context is because the people of the Neolithic were real, they were religious. And there was a lot of, uh, um, of this religious iconography, symbolism that, uh, that's associated with these sites.

And we can get into the linguistics of it later, but, you know, and particularly in enclosure D, which took about 10 years to excavate this enclosure alone. Now they're kind of oval shape. They were all buried under the ground, and they've only excavated probably five or six of these enclosures. But there's probably 20 more of them still buried under the ground. Now, if it took 10 years to excavate enclosure D,

you can imagine how slow of a process it is, but in enclosure D, there's two central anthropomorphic columns. They're T-pillar columns that are 18 and a half foot tall. They're anthropomorphic, which means they have this human-like characteristics, but no face. They're stone pillars, and they're central to this enclosure. And so what Judd and I are proposing in the new book, Decoding Gobeckley-Tel. is that the impetus of religious ideology came first, not agriculture. So in the textbooks, they teach that, you know, people came out of the Neolithic stone age from hunter-gatherer type of things to more sedentary life leading into agriculture.

And then religion came as a result of all that. Go back to Tepe is just the opposite. religious ideology came first, that brought them together. And then later on, these communities formed into bigger societies like a Chattahulik, which is in a neighboring site there in the region later on, but about 10,000 people probably lived at this site. So it's very impactful into archaeology because this is the first site, really, that has megalithic architecture back in the Stone Age, and that's not supposed to be there. Can you speak to maybe some of the evolutionary arguments for what you just said if human beings started with religion?

Yeah, Jedgo. Yeah. Yeah, Aaron very deftly points out that one of the things that makes Gobeckley-Tepi is such a, in its sister sites as well, such paradigm shattering sides is that the evidence at Gobeckley-Tepi points to this being a religious gathering side. a temple complex, yes, but a religious community. And for over a century, really archaeologists had subscribed to an idea that was probably best articulated by the late Beer Gordon Child, who was one of the templates for Indiana Jones. He spent most of his career in the field. But Child put forth the Neolithic Revolution hypothesis that the entire reason that civilization, city-state dwelling peoples,

emerged is because they developed agriculture first and that allowed for the sedent tourism of a population and the stratification of society, the development of bureaucratic politics and organized religion, that sort of thing. But at Gobeckletepe, it's religion that came first. I mean, it's demonstrably religion. Even Schmidt and all his colleagues and the people that have worked at Gobeckley-Tepi, all the archaeologists say that this is a, it's a religion. It's a religion. site. It was devoted to religion, and that's what came first. All of the other things that we associate with civilization came as a result of that, that it were epiphenomenal. So the structures are built. The religious pool is there. And then you have the development of organized society,

you have the development of the cultivation of a couple of species of wheat that are indigenous to the region. And so it throws child's Neolithic rubble. evolution thesis, not necessarily out of the window completely because it applies to certain other, the emergence of other civilizations, but it is demonstrably so that at Quebec-Tepa, you see religion is the ideological foundation of that particular, for all intents and purposes, what would become a small city. I mean, for us, Dr. Steve Brule's here, you know, that are as smart as the listeners out there. So, like, you know, the narrative is that how long did human beings go before we developed

religious systems? This implies that that came way before the timeline that we're told or outlined in... Right. In fact, in human prehistory, and again, even the, you know, the materialists, the archaeologists that are purely naturalistic are going to tell you that the first, the most of the first articulated ideologies in human societies were religious ones. What is the religion here? Let's talk about that for a second. If they're creating this space and religion comes before an organized society and what we eventually see is the agricultural

and agrarian development, what do you believe is going on here as far as the religion? And how does that come about in your minds? What Jed and I are proposing in the book is that we're proposing a couple of different new theories about the site. Yeah. One is a linguistic connection to living logograms. And the second one is a religious theory going back to what we're calling the regeneration theory. And the regeneration theory basically says that the reason for the religious ideology is because there was this lost connection that mankind had back in the Garden of Eden. Adam and Eve walked with God in the garden.

They were set there for purpose. and they had dominion over that, but they lost the access to that. Well, there were several things that happened at that time, but the main problem was is they lost a direct connection with God. And so there was two deaths that happened. There was an immediate spiritual death, and then later they suffered a physical death and died natural deaths. That was never the original plan.

And so because of this lost connection, and of course, you know, I'm postulating that after towards a, probably after the Tower of Babel event, because of the linguistics, I think, are connected to the site. People were trying to reestablish that connection somehow. And the way they were doing it was through religious worship. They had already created idols by this point. We see that in this regional site of Huron, this is where Abrams called out of, they were already worshipping the moon god at this.

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but in particular to go back Lake Tepe, we look at the deification of the bull, the ancient Arak bull, and then the deification of the moon. There was this cosmology that they believed in that the only way you could achieve eternal life was to be deified through your father ancestor. And so this goes back to the veneration of their ancestors,

but more specifically to the deification of Adam and Eve. This is why you see the two-centrales. Pillar's in enclosure D. They were 18 and a half foot tall that are central. Now, if you can imagine, these probably had roofs on them at one time. There was a procession you walked into. There was bench seating around this. You know, if you had torches and you were in there, that's flickering flames and casting these shadows on the wall. And I think they were probably performing some kind of ritual or libation ceremony. Now, I'm not suggesting that they performed human sacrifice. at Gobeckley-Tepe, there's no evidence for it that we found yet. Having said that, just recently some published articles came out in a neighboring site. Now, this is not very close to Gobeckley-Tepe. It's probably several hundred miles away, but they did find evidence of human sacrifice of older teenage girls at this site. And I forgot the name of the site now, but this is, This is the reason for this religious ideology.

So they're trying to reestablish this lost connection they had with God. And they believe that you can become a deity, star god, which they believe they came from the heavens. This goes back to the Genesis 6 Fallen Angels tie where, you know, there was this crossover into mankind. They were interfering in the affairs of mankind. Now we have influences from the watchers into mankind of different things. One of these influences is a religious influence. If you will worship us as gods, we will give you knowledge of different things, right? But you're going to worship us as gods.

So this is kind of the concept, the theological tide, Gobeckletepe. So this is like, you know, obviously, I've just tried to think about this in broad terms. Is this kind of like a bootleg version of Eden? You know, it's like, it's how they did. back in the 80s, they had like Dr. Thunder, you know, the fake version of, of Dr. Pepper. Yeah. Nobody ever liked it either. Yeah, right.

I had to throw it a doctor joke. We got two Texans in here, so this is going to be. It's down the road, because we've talked to Jed before, that Turkey's where Eden was, or the he, he, he, he, hypothesizes. That's what, that speaks to the whole presence of the watchers in the region to begin with, is that they, they hope to, they hope to. they hope to weaponize Eden. One of the things we put forward in the book is that to watch your presence is what causes this 90-degree angle trajectory change

in the cultural movement of this particular society. Where I drew some influence from was a book by the historian and ethnologist named Jared Domman. He wrote a book called Guns, Germs, and Steel. He looked at the history of the world, but the climax of the story was the clash between the Spanish under Pizarro and the Inca under Ottawawapa in 1531. And he argued that there were things that happened millennia before either one of these two people's met

that put the old world's part of the equation in the superior position. The continents of Europe and Asia are long east and west, so that there were fewer climatic and landform changes for information to travel over from east to west to west. So out of the prehistoric near east, things like metallurgy and agriculture and animal husbandry and all of the technologies and ideology associated with civilization can spread more easily. The continents and the Americas are long north to south, so it was more difficult for that information to travel over different landforms and temperatures and climates and things like that.

In the old world, there were herd animals that humans eventually kept. and in a case of bovines, that meant that they were exposed and naturally, generationally inoculated, I guess things like anthrax and smallpox, smallpox, of course, which was very virulent to the native population in the Americas, because they had no herd animals. They had never been exposed to bovine animals. And so there was a sort of unconscious body. biological warfare that was going on. And so you throw in

superior military technology like steel, bladed weapons, and gunpowder, and you've got all of these distal causes, influences that were set up millennia before the Spanish even arrived in the new world

that put them in a superior strategic position and had a revocable change upon the culture that they faced. In other words, the native culture was irrevocably changed and not necessarily for the better, I think most people would argue. And that's an outside influence.

The only time that you see that, I use that as an illustration and an analogy in the book, that the only time you see that kind of change and that degree of change in human societies is when they're acted upon by an outside society that is more technical. technologically sophisticated. The question I have is, where is the human agency for that to happen in southeastern Turkey in this Neolithic time frame, mesolithic time frame? It's not, the answer to that should be self-evident. There's not a human agency that could do that,

that could make that sort of change on another society at the time anywhere on the planet. Because for the bulk of our history, humans have either been hunter-gatherers or horticulturalists of one's order or another. So you must turn to a supernatural, extra-dimensional agency for that degree of change to take place. It was a change that was agenda-based. It was based on the agenda of the Watchers. It was a demonic agenda.

Just to add on to what Judd's talking about, I looked at that article. It just recently came out. It's the mass sacrifices of teenage girls common in Bronze Age Turkey. And this is a site called Basher Hoyek in Turkey. It's, it's, I don't know exactly how far it is from Gobeckley-Tepe. It looked like it was quite a distance from there.

But it's, it's considered a Bronze Age site, which is interesting because one of the new theories that I'm proposing in the book decoding Gobeckley-Tepe is that I think Gilbeckley-Tape, if there's this linguist connection regarding Anatolian hieroglyphics, I think that connection puts it not in the Stone Age, it puts it in the Bronze Age. It's interesting

that this article just came out the other day and this site is Bronze Age, but it all ties back to a religious implication in ideology, this cosmological belief system that they had. Now, if that site, Bosch,

Hoyek, and Turkey, has evidence of mass teenage girls being sacrificed. The next question has to be asked. Why would they do that? And the only reason that you would sacrifice humans is probably to a God that you're worshiping. And if there's a tie there, this is the first human sacrifice tie that I think that's been in the region so far. And it's interesting that if that's the case, then what else? are they going to find that Gobeckley-Tepe because the majority of Gobeckley-Tepa is still under the ground. They only say 5%, maybe 10%, as a pretty liberal estimate that Gobeckley-Tepa has been excavated. So let's just take the 10% estimate.

That means 90% of it still under the ground. So what else are they going to find there? I think if our theory is right in this, I think that has profound implications in our archaeology specifically relating to Quebec Leitepe because that changes our understanding about what's happening here. And if that's the case, then there's a lot

of things that mainstream archaeologists that have not considered before, I think, should consider. Some of these things we're putting forth in the book. There's a lot of things I think they've missed here. Yeah. Well, because they don't come out from sort of a biblical. Actually, this is the first book that has approached Quebec Leiteepe from a biblical perspective. I love it.

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Find your perfect product at Bose.com. Very first to do that. And I think we're the first to propose some of these new theories. I've got a question about a couple of things you guys brought up here. And I think the first is timeline. I know that we had talked about, you know, there's Noah's Ark reportedly, you know, Mount Arat landed in Turkey,

and you have this post-flood. So are we talking about, if you say Bronze Age, Dr. Aaron, we're talking about something that's post-flood, obviously. And is this, where do you put this? Is this, you put it post-Babble via some of the linguistics, but then obviously then post-flood?

Because we talk about the watchers, then can you walk me through? You guys walk me through then. Obviously, the watchers are in Tartarus, and they're progenitorious by the flood per witness 6 downstream. And then, of course, we have this building of the tower, which actually in our show, Judd, you proposed, you believe the Tower of Babel was actually in Turkey, which then is the proximity to the locations of Quebec Leuttepe and Kaharan Tepe, which is, of course, the city we talked to Hugh about a little bit. can you lay out what you believe that would be the timeline? Then I have a follow-up question when you're done with that about the Adam and Eve connection. But first, where do you believe this lands?

Because we have all these things. You know, we have the Tower of Babel event. And linguistically, if you've got different languages that feel like an influence on this, then that's going to be different languages would be post-Babble, right? So can you guys walk me through that as far as from a biblical narrative in that timeline where do you think this lands? Yeah. So what we're looking at is if there's a linguistic connection here, And I'll just make that tie real quickly.

On the iconography on the stones at Gobeckley-Tepe, there are Louvian Logograms. Louvian Logograms is part of a language called Anatolian hieroglyphics. It was identified in the 1800s, but they misclassified it as Hittite hieroglyphics. And so it wasn't until the 1930s of the 40s, when they realized they had misclassed, misclassified the language and it was actually Louvian logogram, not hieroglyphic Hittite.

And when they realized that, then they understood this is Louvian. Luvians was a culture that lived contemporaneously with the Hittites. The Hittites adopted this Lovian Logogram. Lovian was a spoken language, but it was a written language. But the logogram was a digogram was a digorem. was a different type of writing. It was a more monumental, formal writing for stone. So if you were going to write something on a slab of stone,

you need an abbreviated form of what you were going to write. And so a logo realm is one symbol equates to one word. And so this idea was adopted for monumental architecture on stones. The Hittites adopted this and carried it throughout their culture as well. But it's interesting in the 19, I think in 1943 at a neighboring site, it's called Karatepe, not Karohan Tepe, but Karatepe. They found Lovian Logograms at that site. So when I was looking at the iconography on the stones, there's some very clear, Logograms that are Luvian and one of them is the logogram for Deus, which is Latin for God.

Another one is a logogram. It looks like an English H. That's the logogram for gate or for portal. So when I started realizing this, that the iconography up on the two central pillars on the, where about the neck would be, on Western Pillar 31 and on Eastern Pillar, Pillar 18, there's two symbols. On Western Pillar 31, there's a bull cranium symbol, which is a bull with horns where the neck would be on this anthropomorphic pillar. On Eastern Pillar 18 is a Crescent Moon with a full disk above that, which I think represents a full moon, and then that H symbol. Now, when you transliterate all that into English through Logogram, it could represent the house of the moon god or the bull god and so we walk you through this in the book about how we get there but if that's luvian the point is that this is louvian logograms then that doesn't put it in the stone age it looks like

it's stone age because there's no pottery this is before pottery and so there's no pottery at the site it's all stoneware vessels but i think if this liuvian logogram connection pans out and they find more more and it's verified, then that doesn't put it in the Stone Age at all, puts it in the Bronze Age, which then puts it post-tower of Babel because of the scattering. Then you have the scattering of the people and the languages. And so now you have this, you know, these people with a different language at the site. And so this is where I put it post-Babble, probably within several hundred years or several generations after that. Judd makes a connection to the Anted-Diluvian world,

which he talks about. But I think this is one of the theories that we're suggesting in the book. And if I could interject, that's one of the interesting things about, the many interesting things about this site, is that there are these lingering questions, and Aaron's connection with the Lovian Logogram

material is really interesting. It leaves another possibility. The evidence could show in the coming years that the date needs to be moved forward, but there also exists another possibility that if the older dating holds, in other words, if this is a purely stone age site, then it means that these alluvian logograms are a rediscovered language. So the titillating questions that remain are going to be largely based on what comes out in terms of the linguistic potential of not just the logograms, but even the groupings of pictorial representations at Quebec. And just the role of the site in terms of the history of the intellectual history of humanity, especially in terms of linguistic, artistic, and religious expression.

Who are the Lewians? Can you explain that just quickly? Well, yeah, as Aaron pointed out, Livian was a language that was prolific, really, in Bronze Age Anatolia. To give people some perspective, there were also members of Hittat Society that spoke Levian. It was widely spoken, especially in Central and Western Anatolia, to give some people some points of connectivity here. Lovian was the language that was spoken by the Trojans that the Misenian Greeks fought during the Trojan War so the people that the

the famed Hittite Tawagala letters refer to as the Iluusa the people from Elios as it's rendered in Greek spoke Louvian. Is that where you get the word antediluvian? No. Okay. Different thing all together.

Yeah, well, you never know. I like your shot in the dark there. Shot in the dark. And every time you bring up Trojans, Jed, I think, about History of the World Part 1. What is the 1989 movie, by the way? No Brooks. No Brooks. You kind of have to be an extreme nerd understand this stuff.

I mean, not. Extreme nerd. Like. Not to insult everyone in the room. The average person's. Not just a regular nerd, but an extreme nerd. Yeah. It's like there's this whole nerd language that people understand the

timeline here. There's like a bunch of, you know, and there's sort of this, you know, because the average person is just like, what's the big deal? It's a hole in the ground. There's a bunch of stuff in there. It means. Yeah, but have we, have, have we ever failed to bring you the nerds? Well, no.

We deliver the nerds. It's just like revenge of the nerds right now. I'm just saying, like, there's this whole, like, narrative that's been constructed for a long time in academic circles that nobody knows about, right? They don't understand. Um, yeah. And this just, this discovery kind of blows a hole in that. And there's a bunch of people that are just like, oh, they kind of know the framework of how that all works.

And the rest of us just, I guess we don't understand why it's so important because we don't understand the beginning. Yeah. Here's why it's important. Because Gobeckley-Tepa, whether you put it in the Neolithic or in the Bronze Age, let's just set the side for a moment moment. It's important because this is really the first time that we've discovered our religious ideology before agriculture. And if that's the case, that means that there's a biblical tie to this at Gobeckle-Tepa, that you're not going to hear in mainstream archaeology.

And again, this biblical tie goes back to the watchers. It goes back to Genesis 6. It goes back to the Days of Jared. It goes back to the post Tower of Babel event where they're scattering. This all gets back to this lost connection, this Axis Monday, lost connection that humanity lost that humanity lost with God back in the garden. And so what, look, I'll say it again, Mike Kaiser said, if it's strange, it's important. what happened back in those days, Solomon said there's nothing new under the sun, right?

So what happened back in those days? This is the very beginnings of bail worship right here. Okay. And what has happened in the past, the things that have happened before have happened in antiquity, and they're happening now, just in a little different, a little bit different way. And so the things that have happened then are actually ramping up. It's this policy of evil that's ramping up that we're racing towards these end times events. And this plays a part of it.

Why? Because this is exactly some of the same things that were happening in the very beginning are actually getting worse now. And we walk you through the book. So when you talk about, you know, a lot of this is difficult to understand. And in the book, we kind of mesh all the academic stuff with the ability to understand it just for the regular everyday person. And so these are some of the things that we can just, we walk you through it. We show you the connections with the linguistics of Luvian, the Anatolian hieroglyphics. We walk you through Judd's connection with the fallen angels back, you know, in those days.

and and it's a very, really it's an easy, it's an easy read. And some of the comments that we've, the feedback we've gotten on Amazon were just that. It's, it's a really easy book to pick up and read. You're not going to get all nerded out. But the other thing is at the end of the book, I talked exactly about why it's important to you today. There's a connection with the deification of Eve on Eastern Pillar 18. Okay. Okay. And the deification of Eve is important through this deification to become a deified God to get eternal, to gain eternal life and live as a God back to the star gods, back to the heavens where you came from.

There was no way to do that now. So what they decided was that they would deify the image of Eve. Why? Because Eve was a female and she knew the mystery of creation. What does that mean? Eve could give birth. The female line gives birth to the next generation. And so because of that, they didn't understand how it all worked, but they understood through the female line that a son would be reborn and they would consider that the father ancestor being reborn back through his. sons. And so when you died, there was this whole process that you had to go through back through Eve to become deified. She could give you eternal life. So they have deified the image of Eve under the moon, whether in the crescent moon or the full moon. And remember, later on, this deification of Eve gets translated into Ishtar worship and Ashtar worship and Asherah. And then later as you progress down even to today,

there's an entity that people, we talked about Bigfoot at the very beginning, people seen Bigfoot. There's an apparition or an entity that is appearing to people called the lady. Yes. This is UFO of God's stuff. This is, dude, yeah.

Yeah. This is the spirit of the lady that is the same deity as Ishtar, Ashtar worship. going all the way back to the deification of Eve. So the names changed throughout antiquity, but it's the same deity spirit. And so now this lady is being presented. And look, the Catholic Church has verified one of these mass sightings.

It was witnessed by like 3,000 people. And the Catholic Church has verified the siding. We talk about all this in the book because it's that same entity. When you see that one entity, you often see the other entity associated with it. and that's the entity of bail. And so when you see one, you often see the other one. So how does that apply to America? Well, back in what?

I don't even know what it was. They put that altar of bail. They recreated it, put it in the park in New York. This gateway that you had to go through before you walked into the temple of bail, ISIS had destroyed it, but they recreated it with 3D printing. They used actually stone marvel. Well, it was marble, I think, that they used. But they recreated it not as large.

I think they scaled it down a bit. But they brought that, you know, Jonathan Kahn talks about this. He went to the park during that grand opening of this arch. And this is an archway that you walked into the Temple of Bail. You've got to go through this archway. And now it's sitting in the park in New York. It's a gateway to that spirit. Aaron, is that the one that they modeled off of the Palm Ira, one that ISIS destroyed?

Yeah. Yeah, that's it. That's it. That's it. Yeah. So when you see the entity of one, you see the entity of the other. These entities are at play around the world, but specifically here in America. So when you're talking about spiritual warfare and, you know, in Ephesians and putting it on the armor of God, there's some spiritual warfare stuff that's happening here.

It's not just, this is some old rocks back in the dirt in Turkey. There is a spiritual connection here that, that, you know, again, Mike Heiser said, It's an unseen realm. Yeah. And there's things happening behind the scenes here that are at play today. Oh, so let me ask about this real quick. I'm following. So the deification of Eve is this idea that you venerate Eve.

And then through veneration of Eve, you have this regeneration or resurrection of your spirit. Of your spirit, right? It's this reincarnation idea that. I think it's fascinating you also brought up, too, was the Our Lady Fatima, right? was what you're talking about, I think, from 1917. There's six appearances of the Catholic Church who says, is the Virgin Mary and this. But it sounds very familiar.

And honestly, there's the third one. Nate, when we talked about with a whistleblower who was retrieving the egg-shaped UFOs, have you heard this testimony? Yeah. His name is escaping me right now. But his testimony, and that was he would pick up these, he was a helicopter privately pick up these UFOs.

And I promise this will be connecting. But he says when he picks it up, he has this like telepathic connection. connection to a way forward female spirit entity that speaks to him and tells him it's and it sounds so much like UFO God stuff which is sort of making it rounds where this this the lady is showing up and telling Chris that these things are coming and happening and and I think that's it's really interesting connection I think and I wanted to ask you on the flip side of that coin as we talked about Eve is Adam, right? He represented as a bull. And I can't help but think about L and this

bull god that is the father of bail, right, which of course, we've walked through this in the show about, you know, a bunch about the idea of bail being Satan, you know, the Satan character, this, and then Satan wearing these masks as storm gods, is bail, Zeus, and all up through the ages. Dr. Judd about this quite a bit. Is this the first, in your mind, if this pans out of being, whether it's Stone Age or it's super early Bronze Age, are we talking the beginning of, to start with Adam, and then this gets twisted into a fallen angel type situation with a bull?

Because when we see this next to this, right, the whole idea of, we've gone through this a bunch of guys, like the calf, it's not a pre not a calf, it's probably a bull. These people were, you know,

geographically adjacent to the Canaanites who worshipped Bail and L, his father who was a bull. And then you have Moloch. You have all these bull. gods that find their way down through, is this, in your mind, is this where it begins? And or how does that, how does that work? This could be the very beginning of that, the image of, look, we get into this in the book, but that one of the, a cherub has four faces.

And one of those faces is the face of an ox or the face of a bull. and it's interesting why you would create a deity out of a bull why would you do that or the image or the face of a bull we see that the children of Israel came out of Egypt and they all got complaining and everything and then so what do they do they all melt down the gold and they create an image of a calf and then we see in Egypt we see bull worship in Egypt the God Hotho were things like this

apis and and then we see yeah so even today in the culture of India they worship the cow so

the question is why would they you know why would it start with the image of a bull and it all goes back to the face of the cherub and so this is the tie that we make in the book to the spiritual tie with the connection of the cherub, they're actually what they're doing,

they're probably don't even realize it. But what they're actually doing is not worshiping Eve or Adam. They're worshipping the face and the image of the cherub of the fallen cherub. That's exactly what's happening. Sounds like L.A. Marzilli there. The fallen cherub, man. Well, and that's what the demonic does.

The demonic always takes what is good, what's godly. and makes a counterfeit of it. And I would say, guys, like on our podcast over the last five years, we've sort of outlined various ways in which, you know, humanity just gets these almost like direct downloads to rip off heaven, you know, whether it's architecture, language, governments, everything you could think of. there's we've done several different episodes on these topics and this is like an archaeological drop of

these people at this time given to the historical narrative shouldn't have this knowledge they shouldn't have this understanding they shouldn't even know how to worship in such a way right is that kind of what you say because we were told that there's this long line of materialism where humans slowly progress but then this is sort of an outlier of like wait a minute they shouldn't have they should be doing these things yet. They shouldn't have this knowledge yet. We invented all that. Well, we know as Christians,

we didn't invent anything. We've ripped it off from somewhere else. Or entities gave it to us illegally, right? That's the whole... Or legally, depending on how you... Well, legally, yeah. If we traded a cow for it, I guess it's illegal... A couple goats, chickens, you know?

You get a sword. It sounds like good... It's a good coin. But it's like, you know, I think that's just like an overarching topic. We've hit it from like 50 directions and I just think that this is interesting to, it's kind of a bomb. I can see why it's more of a disruptor in the narrative than the average person could see.

The physical representation of the bull goes back to the deification of Adam. Specifically in this marrying pantheon, the god Anne is the deification of the bull form of Adam. And this is why you have the bull representing the power over the earth, the dominion over the earth, and then the deification of the moon, which I think is Eve, which is the power over the heavens. Yeah. It's interesting. Eve symbolism with the moon, if it's in a crescent or if it's in a full disk, can transform their genders between male and female. Oh, boy. And this is exactly why we see with this image of the deity of the same thing.

female d.T that appears, it can blend genders. And we talk about in the book, the study that was done. I think in the 1960s, there was a scientific study. I think it was called the Universe 21 study, but a scientist did some work on some mice, and he put them in the most ideal conditions for survival, not just for survival, but to thrive, the right temperature, the right food, everything, for them to actually thrive in this community. community. And the mice multiplied very quickly, but something happened. You know, there was no external factors that would harm them or kill them. It was just all meant to thrive. But something happened as this community of mice began to grow. There was kind of this, you know, they're very

highly complex kind of community of mice. They interact. They have this social pattern that they they use, but the males began to segregate and isolate, and then the females became very aggressive. And there was this whole breakdown of this society, despite the optimal conditions that they were in, there began to be this whole breakdown of their society. And there were some changes that were happening within this culture of mind. that they just, the whole society began to collapse. And if you can take that one small example that happened and extrapolate that on a societal scale of America,

this is kind of the same thing that you're seeing. We had this, you know, great democracy founded on the Republic from our forefathers, and they gifted it to us. But I think it was, somebody asked, I think it was Thomas Jefferson, you know, maybe I can't remember now. I may have been Ben Franklin, but it's somebody, they said, what does this mean? He said, well, you have this thing, this gift, this democracy, this republic that we gifted you. If you can keep it.

I'm not seeing that exactly right. I'm paraphrasing that. That's Benjamin Franklin. Sprinkling, yeah. And so he said, oh, if you can keep it. And now we're coming to a point where there is this. breakdown in our society and our culture, specifically with the blending of genders. This is the spirit behind what's happening with this cultural shift that we're seeing now,

is that men want to be women and women want to be men. And this goes back to that same spirit. So there's a connection here with all this. And it's the deity behind these things that's associated with it. I love it, guys. Nothing like going back to the outlier in archaeology to find its relevance to 2025 and to the culture that we live in. I love this conversation.

I mean, I think you can return to the ancients and find out all these things that you, you know, again, that we didn't know. I think what's fascinating is that we, you know, mainstream archaeology wants us to think that went from knuckle-draggers to, you know, to building. like architectural marvels like the the megaliths and things like quebecuttepe or or you know saksa waman um macho Picchu these places that were that are the pyramids that are enigmas and and i i love what you guys are doing i love that this is this is looked at from a biblical worldview this is how we this is how we are meant to filter and digest and place this within within the timeline that's another

overarching reason why we wrote the book is uh you know sometimes Anatolia, Asia Minor, Turkey, whatever label you give to it, kind of takes a backseat to the main historical theater of the Bible, you know, in the Levant or in Mesopotamia or Egypt, Syria. Sometimes we don't really think about Anatolia as a biblical land, but it's very much a biblical land. in a lot of ways the biblical narrative

begins and ends in Anatolia the story of Eden Adam and Eve the the resting place of the ark is all sensibly in

eastern Turkey which Aaron of course can comment on because he was on an expedition to locate open us for that. Joe, that's a great segue because we are, once we, after the break here, we're going to do a little after show overtime with, uh, with our, our two archaeologists here. One thing we're going to do is talk to Dr. Aaron Jenkins about the Ark of the Covenant,

where it may be. And the other thing we want to talk about having two archaeologists in the room is talk about the recent discoveries of the pyramid of Koffrey and your, and your take and thoughts on megastructures purportedly discovered underneath the, uh, the Giza Plateau. But before we get to that and stay with us, if you're a member, you can listen to that portion, this continued conversation. If you're not, check out Blurray Pictures.com slash members. But guys, before we get to that, to the after show, talk everybody where they can find your book, where they can find your work. I love much of our shows familiar with you, Jed, and where they can reach you. But Dr. Aaron Judkins, let everybody know as well where they can find what you're doing and also connect and pick up this groundbreaking book.

Yeah, I can pick up the book at on Amazon. It's called Decoding Gobeckley-Tepe Biblical Anatolia and the Watchers and we ask you if you pick up the book and you read it and you enjoyed it and learn something

and go back to Amazon, write us a review that really helps trim the book on Amazon. It was the number one new release in archaeology on Amazon for over a month but we only got like 10 reviews so we need some more reviews. But yeah, you can find the book on Amazon

We do have a Kindle version out now that just came out. So for those who like Kindle, you can get it there. You could follow my work at Aaron Judkins.com. And I have pretty much all my central things linked up there. And then my Substack, if you go to Substack.com and just type in my name. I've got a lot of new material articles and things that are right there. and then head over to our Patreon sign. It's called Ancient Pathways.

And we got a lot of free content for you. Both Substack and Ancient Pathways for you. Stuff, I got a digital library on Giants, volumes 1, 2, and 3. Let's go. We got lots of interviews, lots of free content, lots of content that are available for membership. But that's where you can find all of our... Judd? Do you want to give your plug, Jedd?

If you just turn into the blurry creatures, you're about 300 plus episodes late for Judd's introduction to the show. But, Jed, where can they link up with what you're doing and all the crazy things that happen on Burton Beyond? Well, that's a loaded word. It is. Very much.

But I'll take it. Yeah, baby, yeah. BurtonBion.net. People can go there and find ways to connect. I've got courses that I offer. on a lot of this material through the Institute of Biblical Anthropology and people can register there

and you can find me on Facebook on X just about to the point to where I can start making more content for YouTube so I'm looking forward to that and we've got a couple things brewing with Dr. Jed too that's all we're going to say here but there are some things down the road as well

with DJ. It's going to be a good it's a good DJB and BC That's right, baby. Okay, let's go to the after show, guys. If you are a member, stay tuned. Arc of the Covenant, Pyramid of Coffray, and some fun on the other side of this.

Yeah. Welcome to the after show where Jed might sing. We don't know what's going to happen. We're going to talk about all things going on. There's a lot of sort of ancient discussions back in the news. What's under the pyramids? Is there ancient tech involved? We just had a great discussion with you guys.

Let's keep going for our members here. Thanks for giving our members a little extra. to look into sort of the off-the-cuff ideas. Arc of the Covenant, supposedly, is being remote viewed. A lot of wild things we can get into here, guys. Let's start with the Ark.

You want to start with the Ark? We'll go with the Ark. Let's start with the Ark. The Ark of the Covenant, right? We'll start with the Ark. Yeah, as Nate said, like, there's, the news in the last few weeks is that the unclassified documents

from a release, a FOIA release, had some interesting information about remote viewing. We talked about remote viewing on the show a few times. I actually had Lord Morris joined us and talked about her remote viewing. We actually had a military guy on eight on more member shows as well who was at the Monroe Institute, which was something that we didn't bring him on for, but was fascinating. But of course, these documents, what they suggest or what they say is the CIA was using remote viewing,

like in the movie, the men of stare at goats to find, not surprisingly, ancient relics, sounds a lot like Indiana Jones and looking for things like that. But Dr. Aaron Judkins, you've done some work on the Ark and Judd teed it up right before the break. But would love your take on the Ark of the Covenant

and where you believe it is and your work and perhaps in Turkey. Lay it out for us because I think this is a obsessively unpopular topic for a lot of folks as they try to find on these ancient relics of power, if you will,

from the ancient Near East. You know, I have searched for Noah's Ark on Oh, Errorat in Eastern Turkey. And that came out in a film called Finding Noah. It was a theatrical release in theaters back in 2015. I think he can find it on Amazon Prime for free now. But if we're talking about the Ark of the Covenant, then, yeah. So there's a couple of theories about that.

One prominent theory is that the Ark of the Covenant is hidden in a church in Ethiopia. And there's a lot of researchers who still think that I don't believe that's the case. And the reason is, is because when Israel became a nation, if Ethiopia,

the Ethiopian Jews had the Ark of the Covenant, they would have returned it to Israel. They would not have kept it hidden in a church where nobody can see it. I think it's a, I think probably it's a copy of something that they did in remembrance of their cultural heritage coming out of Israel. I don't think it's the real thing.

Having said that, I think Israel knows where the real arc of the covenant is. And the reason I say that is because all this buzz about the red heifer, and the trying to re-implement the building of the third temple. Most Jews in Israel are atheists or agnostic. A lot of them are Orthodox, but a lot of people are not Christians there. They're in their minority. And so when you're talking about the rebuilding of the Third Temple

and the Red Heifers, that really comes to a very specific sect of Judaism that is trying to implement this. And if that's the case, I think that they know where the Ark of the Covenant is because there's things that have to happen for that building of the Third Temple. I know a guy personally who was instrumental in getting the red hafers from Texas to Israel. I've met, I know him as a friend personally. I've met the guide there. He's an Israeli native that was also instrumental in getting those red hafers over. I've talked with him. but they just recently all five of them have been disqualified.

And so what was an imminent ceremony for the ashes of the red heifer now is on hold. But look, the reason why they want to do all this in the first place is to re-implement the third building, the building of the third temple. And the reason why they want to do that, even though that ushers in the Antichrist and the End Times and the Battle of Armageddon is because, in their mind they believe that this is all going to re this is going to usher in and expedite the second coming of the king and so that's their

thought process behind it so I think Israel if they have the implements ready for building the third temple I think that they know exactly where the Ark of the Covenant is and as some of their hearsay it's not verified. I'll just say it's it's hearsay.

But they, from what I've been told, and this is from people that I trust, that they exactly know where it is. Now, they won't even disclose it to me. But I think if I had to guess, I think it's probably, I think it's probably under, under the western wall area somewhere.

I've been down in there under the Temple Mount. I've been down there years ago. I went under the Temple Mount. And there's an area there that's a wall that's been concreted. There used to be an opening. There is a room, but they completely concreted that wall off. and they don't they don't know why nobody can get access into there but i think they probably either have it there or somewhere under the temple mount um and uh so anyway i i think that that's

gonna it's going to come out soon i think uh specifically with these red heifers that have uh that have now that are now over there it'll take probably another couple of generations But look, when you're breeding cattle, that doesn't take a whole lot of time. So it could be in the very near future that they find a red heifer that's kosher, that they could use for the ashes of the red heifer, and then all of a sudden, it's game on. So I think this is, in my mind, it's plain, I guess this is a pun, but I guess it's plain with fire because of this whole thing related to the prophecies in Revelation. And so it's kind of weird to think that maybe we are that close.

Maybe we are that close. That's interesting. Yeah, a lot of the folks think that possibly it is. It is beneath the Temple Mountain was hidden there, and it's either kept or safekeeping or it's unacceptable based on the fact that it's controlled by the Muslim. right now, that old space. Joe, do you have any thoughts on that and on perhaps where you believe

the ark is? Do you agree with Dr. Aaron or are you? Actually, yeah, actually, I do agree there. Well, I think the art case for Ethiopia is interesting. I don't think they have the original. I think the

best case scenario is that it is under the old temple location likely the western wall area. That's, I think that's probably the best case scenario.

The other alternative that I think is possible is that it may not even be on the earth at this point. Could be gone. Like what on Mars or something? Or like in the Pleiades? No, I'm not going to speculate.

They didn't send it to Zeta reticula. Well, I love this conversation. I mean, I love this conversation. It's actually really, really cool to kind of get an update on the red half or stuff too, because we've talked about that on the show. But considering I misunderstood, do you want to quickly talk about looking for Noah's art?

Do you believe it's up there in Turkey? This would be a fun little conversation as well. Yeah. So our search back in 2013 in the film Finding Noah has targeted an area on Greater Aorette, which was the eastern plateau. So you're almost at 17,000 feet up there. And so I think we've rolled out the eastern plateau.

There's a couple of areas, though, that still have not been rolled out. The Western Plateau, I think the probability is low being discovered there. I think there's two places, really, that it could be. One is in the Horde Gorge on the northwest side of the mountain that faces Armenia. The Horde Gorge is a very dangerous area. There are cliffs that are thousands of feet down. You can't access them. from the top, you have to go from the bottom up. It's a very, very, very difficult area because

there's just a certain path you have to take to get up that side and people have died there. There's, uh, uh, Dr. John Morris, who I knew before he died from ICR, he and his team were struck by lightning climbing that side of the mountain. John Morris told me he thought that's how he got MS later in his life. Really? It was from that lightning strike. It knocked them all unconscious. Wow.

So there's a lot there because that gorge is twice as deep as the Grand Canyon there. I mean, it's, it's, it's an incredibly difficult area to search because it's so steep. But there's a thing actually on, if you go to my substack account, just type in my name, Aaron Judkins. I put up a, it's just a small video. It's not one that I made. it's a video that someone sent me from a kid who was playing with Google Earth and found a 90-degree angle on the northwest side in their Horde Gorge. And he's looking at it and he's saying, is that Noah's Ark?

I mean, it really looks like a 90-degree man-made structure, just a corner of it sticking out of the ice. So I got that video up on Substack if you want to go look at it. It's really kind of intriguing. The other alternative site, now I have not been back there, but I have a colleague who has multiple times, and they're searching in a different area. But the problem is they can't get access to it because they get hit by a big winter storm. You know, something happens. They can't get access to the site. So I can't disclose the word that site is particularly,

but I do think it's still on the mountain. I know there's a lot of other sites that people say, well, it's not on that mountain because the Bible says the mountains of Ararat, which is plural, not Mount Ararat. And I get it. I understand the argument. And that's why I wrote an academic piece called Finding the Mountains of Ararat. You can go to academia.edu, just type in my name or type in that title, Finding the Mountains of Airap.

What do you guys? What do you think about that famous picture, right? Everyone's seen on the internet of like that boat-shaped mound. Yeah, it's called the Drupanor site. Yeah. And no, I'm not convinced. I've been there. I've been to that site.

I know Andrew. Andrew, you know, Andrew and I have a gentleman's disagreement on this, but I'm, I'm not. I don't think that the Drupanar side is Noah's dark. I know why they say that is because of the general shape and the general length and size roughly fits, but look, only the size does, not the shape. The language solves the problem there, doesn't it, Aaron? Yes, yeah, it does, actually, I think for sure. It's the Hebrew word there in Genesis is the word tebaugh, which means a rectangular box or a chest. it is not a boat.

So Noah's Ark was not a boat. It was not designed to sail. It was a life support vessel. And so the very, the Hebrews had a word for boat. They didn't use that word. They used the word for rectangular boxer chest, which means tabah.

This is exactly how we see Noah's Ark, which is built in a 6 to 1 box ratio. And it's interesting that the Japanese that is studying the 90s, that in a non-motorized vessel, built in a 6 to 1 ratio, it writes itself in the, waves, they tried to overturn it, increasing the waves.

They could never overturn this non-vote motorized vessel. Now, if it's built in any other ratio, it overturns. So I've linked it. Yeah, I've linked that, actually, that study. There's an article I wrote on Substack about that, which links that article if you want to go read it. But, yeah, it's interesting. is I think Noah's Ark still exist.

And if it does, it's probably that one of the only pre-flood structures that may still be around. And personally, I think it's not if it's found, but when it's found, it will really serve as a testimony frozen in time that back in the days of Noah, when people didn't believe that the flood was going to happen, which represents judgment, it will serve as another testimony in the end times. that just as it happened in the days of Noah, just like the Bible says, as in the days of Noah were, so shall it be again. And people don't believe, but it'll serve as another testament

for the very end times. And I think when that happens, that means another coming judgment is impending. And that's what the whole book of Revelation is about. So this thing with the Ark of the Covenant, I think that Noah's Ark maybe has an archaeological tie there because I think it's I think it will be discovered and I think if it is discovered I think it'll be on greater errat but I don't you know I'm not staking my flag there really if it's found

somewhere else that's fine but I make a case for it on greater error at still and that's why I wrote that article up on academia called finding the mountains of ararat because there's different you know other locations for mount ararat there's one in northern iran And there's one in southern Turkey, a couple hundred miles from greater Ayrat. There's others, but I don't think that they're very good candidates. Two arcs. Two arcs for the second coming. I like that.

You know what? The world's in trouble, Dr. Aaron, because DJB is about to be mobile again. And when Dr. Jed Burton's mobile, he may just go find both arcs. You know, it might just be an old two-for for DJB when you get them out there. It's the two judges of the two arcs. That's right. That's what it's going to come down to. You know, when I, when I, when I, when I, when I, when I realized I was going to climb a greater error at, that, that implication really hit me hard before I left that, man, what if I'm a part of a team that actually verifies the superstructure on error at?

What is that going to mean? Is that going to usher in the entire? I mean, what's going to happen here? That, that really gets you thinking pretty hard. But when, when I got to air at, you know, you know. That mountain creates its own weather. And I couldn't see the, we couldn't see the summit for probably the first three or four days I was there. One day it was real sunny, his beautiful day.

I looked up and saw, I could see the top. And I realized, I'm going to have to, I'm about to climb this mountain. And my heart kind of sank because you're really a small person climbing a huge land. That's one of the largest landmasses. I think it's 400 square miles or something. it's landmass base it's a huge structure to climb it's very difficult to climb and but look I would love to go back you know my colleague is is going back now and you know he's made several trips this is in connection with

some universities it's all kind of under raft still so I can't really give any details but but man I'm rooting for him you know and like you said maybe the two Judds and the two arcs you know come in the connection but that's the next film oh man you know uh i you know we've been working on this decoding go beckley tepe book for five years and uh we've all been rooting for judd's health and and you know getting getting judd back on his feet and getting him back in studio french pop three to one with me and just just doing some things but the field baby the field get him out of the field get him out well i know but until then i've been working on this is the first time of

I publicly have announced this. I wouldn't really plan on doing this. I told Judd, I hinted to Judd a little bit. Let's go. I don't know, probably three or four months ago. But I've been working on a book that until Judd get back on his feet, I'm working on my first fictional book, which features Judd and I going out on some archaeological expeditions, kind of a fun fictional novel, Indiana Jones type of stuff. Let's make it real. Let's make it happen.

Just be a real thing, Judd. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, let's get the last question then, and I want to get judge to take first on this. Of course, have you been painted into the news at all in the last month or so. There is Italian and Scottish researchers claim they found a major discovery beneath the pyramids of Giza,

potentially rewriting the history of these enigmatic structures. They used radar technology. The team was one team from Italy's University of Pisa and Scotland's University of Strathclyde announced they found structures beneath the that go as far as two kilometers to 6,500 feet deep. Crazy stuff you've seen the videos. They're using the technology called synthetic aperture radar.

And they're claiming that there's not only these long pillars with staircases, but they end up with these cube-strike shape structures at the bottom. And of course, our good friend Hawass,

Dr. Zahi Hawass out of Egypt. His response to this is that the rumors that is spread about the Egyptian pyramids that there are columns under King Coffrey's pyramid have no basis in truth there's no scientific evidence support this claim

and no missions working on King Coffrey's pyramid now he basically debunked it which is and then he goes on to say it falls within the realm of exaggeration deception but this thing is kind of take the internet by force and so Jed I want to start with you I know you've seen the video because I know you've commented

I've seen at least on Facebook but what are your thoughts on on this. I mean, the technology, these researchers claim it's legit, it's satellite based technology, radar technology also works with vibrations, seismic vibrations in the earth.

What do you make of this? I know that we always want to be cautionary or maybe a bit slow when it comes to sort of jumping down some of these rabbit holes when it comes to archaeology. But what do you think about this recent discovery? What is your take on that? And then we'll get to Dr. Aaron after that on his take.

Yeah, clearly it's very, very interesting. And, hey, you know, the Giza Plateau is a mixed bag. I mean, you know, when Dr. Robert Schock and John Anthony West, you know, through a monkey wrench in the age of the sphinx, you know, with his geological analysis, he had a lot of the members of whatever the National Geological Academic Society is called. like name escapes me, but shock had a lot of these guys on board with his idea. And so- Ted real quick, if they don't call, if they don't call themselves the rock band,

they're totally missing a complete opportunity. Absolutely. You know, absolutely. That's a completely missed opportunity. Or just the, well, they can't do just the rock because that's Kenny, right? That's Kenny C. Right. But I mean, they're the geological society.

They're like literally a rock band. A rock band. Yeah. band of rock specialists. You're not wrong, my friend, you're not wrong. But I reference Sharks work because there's still lots of

unanswered questions about Egypt in general and the Giza monuments in particular. And so now the Copper Pyramid on the Giza Plateau is in the news again with this new imagery that's being done. Now, what can

we say about this? Proceed with caution, of course. As I pointed out in one of the forums, let's look with an eye towards the fantastic but not abandoned reason in our approach because there's a lot of sensationalism that surrounds this. What is clear is that, yes, we have this new diagnostic data. We have this new imagery from underneath the pyramid. So something is there.

They're detecting these anomalies under the pyramid. but the artist renderings that are coming out that are based on based on the imagery which I would say as an archaeologist is still very inconclusive it's a lot of the art interpretations that we see of these very articulated will look like pieces of rebar you know that are what are they two kilometers down or so I think is what they're they're estimating basically set in these box-like chambers. I would argue that we don't have enough imagery data to make those kinds of conclusions just yet,

because there are all kinds of surface geological anomalies that can create different kinds of images, which is why I've made some of the statements publicly that I've made regarding these images that have come out. I looked for and did look at the article that the team produced. And of course, we know that peer-reviewed academic journal articles are not perfect. They're not the gold standard of issuing truth because a lot of them are agenda-driven, basically stamps of approval on, it's consensus science in a lot of cases. It's not determinate, observant science. But that being said, I think that one of the problems here is the diminution of findings,

less so the choice of public dissemination in the journal that they published in. And more so because of the, I think the initial press release, press conference that they had was live streamed, but it was, it wasn't saved. And so the sharing of information is kind of suspect. Well, let me backtrack.

Not really, not suspect. I'm just saying that they could have done it in a more structured manner. So my advice on the coffee imagery is to again take a balanced

approach. You know, let let's wait and see because if these structures are under the coffer pyramid, let's replicate this. Let's have other teams use the same technology and replicate this sort of an imagery.

Let the initial Italian team continue to their work, but let's get other imagery done. And of course that could be problematic because of the influence of people like Zai. he may step in and use his influence,

although I don't think he's officially with the Ministry of Culture anymore. He may use his influence to block that kind of work, which is not really scientific of him. But he stood on the opposing end of these kinds of arguments too. He was certainly a, he was vehemently opposed to the work that Dr. Robert Schock did on the Sphinx. and remain so to this day, but the replication of this imaging needs to be done.

We need more imaging and clear imaging and more specialists to weigh on, particularly geologists and geophysicists to weigh in on the imagery so that we can get a clear picture of what's going on underneath the pyramid. What do you think, Aaron? Well, yeah, I met Dr. Zalya, who was one time when he was the head of the Ministry of Culture there, or the head of the Antiquities Department of Egypt. He can be a pretty difficult man to work. I've never worked with him, but from what I understand, he could be a pretty difficult man to work with.

But I think in this case, well, I don't agree. I wouldn't agree with most of Zawai Huas's positions on things. I would agree with him on this particular issue with these, you know, with these claims that are coming out that these, this, you know, synthetic aperture radar technology. It's a Doppler tomography claims that they have found these eight massive columns underneath Coffre's pyramid.

Now, if two kilometers down, that's about, that's just over a mile deep. And to have eight of them is, that's, you know, great claims require great evidence, you know, and so I'm going to agree with him and Jad on this one. You know, I don't think we can really legitimize a claim.

until there's some supportive details like, you know, more raw data, analysis of that data from other researchers, particularly geophysicists and geologists. There was a paper back in 2022 that was published that, I think, suggested some unknown chambers under the pyramid, but there was really no direct connection with these massive subterranean structures beneath Coffrey's pyramid. So I think more concrete information, more empirical data needs to be discovered on this. So I'm going to side with Judd and Zawie on this one. I think we need to withhold our enthusiasm until it's properly verified. Is it intriguing?

Yeah, but it seems to be a bit of a stretch to go a mile down with columns, you know, under the pyramid. But look, I mean, I'm, you know, I'm open to Bigfoot. So there we go. That's full circle. Full circle. Yeah. We're open, you know, to the seemingly fantastical. But there's process to this, you know, even the scientists are on trial in our day and age.

You know, I pointed out the difference between the sort of pseudo, you know, consensus science. We know where that's gotten us. It's more politically driven in the, you know, observant replicable science, which is, that's all we're asking for here. Arian and I are in agreement that more work just needs to be done. We just, we need more imagery. We need more teams working on it. We need, you know, ultimately we would hope that we would find diagnostic, you know, artifacts that would point us in that direction. You know, maybe, maybe it is real.

We just, we don't know at this point. And, you know, the problem comes in trying to filter out the chatter on, on the internet because everybody and their grandmother, you know, the floating heads that are pointing above themselves on TikTok, they're all screaming that, you know, this is, this is a legitimate file. We don't know, we don't know there yet. I think, I think, too, Jared, like my thought from an out of the outside looking at all, I know, not even on the data, is that the reason these things catch so much interest and momentum in the internet and media is I think that we all kind of believe. Most people believe that we're not being told the whole story about the pyramids.

Sure. Sure. That like these aren't, these aren't what we've been told. And I think that always sort of. Absolutely. And I would conceive that point. Absolutely. Yeah.

And so then people run, run with it. So you can, you can, is that, you know, is that there? It might be. But I think the fact that everybody thinks that we. We've been kind of sold a bill of goods on these being tombs, and we know that the pharaohs are buried in the kings, and we can get, we get on a mess freddle,

but I think that's part of, too, what plays into this, is that, you know, and I think that's honestly, like, if you look at an even more macro,

zoom out, it's a lot of conspiracy theory of space runs something to trouble because you, because of the presupposition that we've been, not being told the truth or the whole truth. Absolutely. And I, I sympathize with that.

Absolutely, we have. But again, it doesn't you know it's it's a bull ten that we're not supposed to abandon a reason we acknowledge the supernatural but we don't abandon reason and that's amen that's my point I think that's even when you go to the sorry Aaron but I just say like when you get to the

to the macro level too right like as we operate in sort of the realms of unknown on blurry creatures and and you guys in in the space of trying to figure things out those questions that aren't answered like we don't we don't throw out our logic and reason when it comes to understanding looking for the truth in a space where we're lied to. We know we're lied to. But that doesn't mean, because we're elected by the pyramids,

doesn't mean necessarily there are, you know, two mile long columns underneath the underneath the earth. Yeah, you know, I had referenced about Gobeckley-Tepe, you know, roughly 5 to 10 percent has only been excavated that Quebecly-Tepe. But in Egypt, only 1% of Egypt has actually been excavated. That means 99% of it still under the sands. So I don't agree with the current consensus of the Great Pyramids, Coffreys Paramed.

I've been there. I've climbed into the King's Chamber back in 2008. It's an empty granite room. Small. There's a, what they call a sarcophagus with no lid on it. It looks like it had been broken into an antiquity. But there's no hieroglyphs in there. I mean, there's nothing in there.

In matter of fact, in the book that I wrote called Alien Agenda, The Return of the Nephilim, we talk about the pyramid in that book, and we talk about how it was designed and structured and it's very precise architecture, that we propose that it's not a burial chamber at all. It has served as a different purpose. And so I thought that was pretty interesting.

And we put that very fourth in the book. But I don't think it was a burial chamber at all. I think there's another purpose to it. Yeah, there's another function to it. And another book that I came across not long ago was on the pyramids. If you like the study of the pyramids and you like math, this book's called The Study in Pyramidology, the Study in Pyramidology. And it talks about in the Bible how there was a marker.

that's established. And the author of the book, I can't remember the name, but the book is a studying pyramidology. And he makes the case that this verse in the Bible is a marker that's talked about. And it is actually the pyramid in Egypt and that it was so precise.

He gets into the numbers of it, but it's definitely a great read if people are interested in that. But I think for sure that, that when you're looking at Egyptian history, I think you have to take, you really have to take a whole other look at it because they've gotten the timeline of the Egyptian chronology wrong.

Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah, so there's a lot happening there, but regarding to these big, you know, chambers underneath Kauffrey's pyramid, I think we have to wait and see what the data. Yep, the great pyramid. in particular, gosh, there's so much going on

on the Giza Plateau, but I mean, it's at the complex is at the center of the landmass. I think it's either the world or the old world. It's at the very geographic center. It is also a projection map in proportion of the northern hemisphere. So, like Aaron pointed out, there's so much in Egypt, there's so many I don't answer your questions like, how in the world do we end up in early dynastic Egypt with a fully

formed written and spoken language with its fully flexed grammar and vocabulary, just seemingly out of nowhere? That doesn't happen. That is linguistically impossible. And yet that is seemingly what happens. Well, the logical conclusion is that it didn't emerge out of a vacuum, that that system is much older than late 4th millennium or early 3rd millennium BC, Egypt. Free dynastic.

Yeah. Just like the pyramids. Wild, falkers. Take us with you on the next time on the next expedition boys. We need to do a Noah Zark episode as well. That would be fun. Aaron, thank you. It's been great to meet you for the first time.

Thanks for, thanks for spend time with us. Thanks for having me up. Yeah. Judd, yeah, we love you, bro. It's so good. It'll be always. Always have you on. Yeah, guys.

Thanks so much for this. Thanks for giving us a bunch of stuff afterwards for our members. We really appreciate that. And we should do a Noah's Ark episode. Yeah. Let's jump back in one of these days. But yeah, I know guys, I know we took two hours of your time, so we're grateful for that. I mean, I don't take that for granted.

So thank you very much for that. Thank you all for having us on. We appreciate it. Thanks, guys.