Blurry Creatures - EP: 354 The Patient Zero Encounter with Chris Baumgartner

Episode Date: September 2, 2025

What happens when success strips away everything except what matters most? Chris Baumgartner's story begins with hazmat suits and national headlines as Tennessee's COVID Patient Zero, but unfolds into something far stranger. This biotech executive, who once scaled companies worth hundreds of millions, finds himself unemployed for three years, and wondering who would come to his funeral.The breaking point comes in the form of desperate prayer and what Chris describes as the Holy Spirit responding in perfect ancient Hebrew - a language he doesn't speak. From there, the supernatural encounters accelerate: prophetic dreams, words of knowledge for strangers, and a prayer location on Franklin's highest hill where dozens claim to experience profound spiritual encounters.The Blurry Creatures hosts put this to the test, visiting Chris's prayer gatherings as complete skeptics. What they experience challenges their assumptions about faith, prophecy, and the distance between the natural and supernatural worlds. This isn't a sanitized testimony - it's a raw account of crisis, desperation, and claims of divine intervention that will leave listeners questioning what's possible. - Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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What is the stuff coming out of this bag? You know, I don't think a lot of us think about maybe what we feed our dogs. And that's why we partner with rough greens. Most of us would love to have our dogs, you know, live as long as possible. I mean, I just lost my dog in December. And I would have just, I would have loved more time with Carl. And one of the things you can do to get more time with your dog is to feed them better. Dog owners don't usually realize that live nutrients, that their dog's,

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And Rough Greens really made a difference in their energy levels and the pep in their step. So if you want to do what we did, you can get a free jumpstart trial bag for your dog today. Just cover the shipping. Go to Roughgreens.com and use discount code blurry. That's RUFF greens.com discount code blurry. Rough Greens makes any dog food better. The history of our earth is so different from what we can imagine. joy to join. The Smithsonian, that if they found out about a large skeleton somewhere, was to go get it. I'm going to assume at least one person is right, because if one person's right to bust the paradigm,

it all goes back to the fallen church. And the problem with the modern day church, they have a very truncated view of the supernatural. This backdrop that's just pregnant with all kinds of meaning associated with this Mount Herman event. And this guy defects. from the kingdom. That's a big deal. Here we are again. Another episode of blurry creatures. We're excited to have Chris Bumgarter in the house today. Luke, uh, local Franklin, friends with Luke. And, uh, that's kind of the connection here to get you on this podcast. And one of the things we've talked about over the years is, um, all the ancient blurriness, modern day sightings,

all things strange and weird and, uh, paranormal here on blurry creatures. But, uh, sometimes, you know, you're talking to your buddy and they have a blurry. story evolving right before your very eyes and looks like we're going to have them on the show and talk about your story and kind of where you are what happened and we'll just let you kind of hop in and begin your story where you want and then lead us up to some of the strange stuff and the reason why we asked you on this podcast but welcome to the basement welcome blurry creatures and it can get as weird as you want here and we're

excited to kind of hop into your story yeah thanks good to be here yeah there's a fun one the little context here that like I had heard your story from a mutual friend and it was this like such a it's such a wild story and you know like and they said our show is a spectrum right it's like things from Bigfoot to you know miracles miracle dreams who built the pyramids ancient history and we've we've talked to dr. Craig keener about miracles and we've talked about gifts of the spirit and stuff like that with Michael Miller yeah and we've had we've touched on this but Your story is very unique and in the sense of,

and as Nate says, it's unfolding here daily. It's still going, which is, you know, I'm not going to give away any of this, you know. Thanks for coming on the show. And I just, I wanted to do this because I think there's such, there's such a miracle that's happening. And also, I think contextually, a lot of Christians and people, you know,

are, have a hard time with, um, some of something supernatural, which is ironic, considering we have a supernatural faith. But your story begins in a place that isn't so much that. And let's just get into it, Chris. Yeah, where does this be, where does this begin for you? Yeah, I'll tell you, just from the outset, I'd never thought I'd be talking about faith, especially on a podcast about five years ago.

So I've born and raised, middle Tennessee, right after college, spent a better part of 20-something years working in biotech. So I would help commercialize products for mental illness as it moves from clinical stage to commercial stage. And did that at increasing levels of scale, rent cycle, repeat. But I typically go in to companies. There's this, in the industry, there's this handoff that happens. You spend years, decades even commercializing a product or researching a product to get it to being ready to go to market. And then the clinical team has to hand off.

a baton to commercial team that will come in to figure out, we got this great medicine, how do we commercialize it, how do we make sure patients can get it? And so I would always be the guy that would come in, help define, you know, to go to market strategy, build all the infrastructure and systems and hire all the people and then ultimately launch the product.

And then a few years later, rent cycle repeat and increasing levels of scale. And back in 2020, took what was supposed to be kind of that last step in the industry, took a job that had responsibility for leading a large division of a publicly traded company to launch a product that was supposed to do between 10 and 30 billion in revenue. So that was my exit plan to retire and do what I want to do. But unfortunately, had a crazy and take.

counter with COVID, followed by a life altering experience with the Holy Spirit that has just radically changed everything about me. And we can certainly dive in. Well, step into that story because it's really crazy. I mean, you were at, if anyone remembers 2020, everyone probably does, unless you memory hold it. You're at like the super spreader event. And you, well, I don't want to.

What was that? It was wild. So I showed up, it was my first. month of work and companies are just COVID had just hit the U.S. I think it was in California and there were a couple of cases in Boston when our plane was landing and most of the companies had stopped corporate travel at that point because you know the doom and gloom in the news cycle at that time with the mortality rates of COVID coming out of Wuhan certainly gave you pause but I came in and it was kind of the first company meetings there that all the country managers

come in to a lot on company strategy and hear about all the things going on across the different portfolios. And it was interesting because I, as I was going to the elevator that night to hit the down button, it was like premonition, it was slow motion. I knew exactly what was going to happen. It was like early stage of God telling me I'm getting a prophetic gift. But I could just feel the tension in a new,

it just felt eerie. and for the next week, you know, I remember just you could cut the tension in the air because there was all this, you know, the news was continuing to, the cycles were beginning to loop on all the stuff coming out of China. Yeah. I get home and immediately start getting sick. I tell myself it's the flu, but I don't go anywhere. Like I stay home and I call the urgent care clinic.

and kind of tell them I'd been in a meeting with people all over the world. And they said, well, come the last five minutes of the day, we'll give you a flu test. Because that's what I thought I was the flu. And I go, they give me a flu test. They're like, it's negative. Go home. The health department will call you in the morning. So the next morning, I'm waiting on the phone call.

It finally comes. And they say, pull your car into the ambulance bay. behind the hospital and don't get out. I'm like, okay. So I pull into the hospital and I pull in the ambulance bay and the guy walks out and he's in a hazmat suit and I'm like, what world did I just enter? And he tells me he rolled out of my window,

leave a crack like that and he reaches in to test me. And I'm like, all I can see in my head is the movie Contagion, which I made the most. take of watching a few months prior, which was, it was wild. And he finished testing me. I'm like coughing up a lung because I'm getting sicker and sicker by the day. And tells me to go home and wait. The health department will call in three days.

And so for the next three days, I'm playing every what-f scenario in my head. Like, how much time do I have? Is everything in order? Because at that point, Luke, you said it, it was a dessonance. if you were one of the very first string cases because every bit of news coming out said 80% mortality rate. Yeah, they were saying that you mean,

they're saying if you get it, you're going to die. This is how they, this is how they locked everybody up for weeks. It was, and I'm just trying to stay positive for my son and for my wife. And three days later, I'm literally driving home from picking Carter up at school.

It was four in the afternoon. and I can still see the sun coming through the windshield when the call came in. And it was Tennessee Director of Health and answer the phone and they say, we won't let you know that you've tested positive or you're the first confirmed

case of COVID-19 in Tennessee. At that point, it was pretty much just in California and Boston from what I remember. So it's early, early days. And then the conversation shifted into you know, for the next 40, 45 minutes.

Here's everything the governor is going to say in the press conference the next day. And the last comment was, and by the way, you can't call 911 because we'll have to make special preparations if the hospital is going to receive you. Here's a special number. I just remember thinking, man, that is so comforting to know that I got a special number. But they couldn't answer anything. And you learn a lot when you go first about population health management. Yeah.

It has very little to do with you. It's all about how do we calm the masses? And I went home and I'm just thinking, how do I tell my wife and how fast is this going to continue progressing? How much time do I have? And the next morning, the minute the press conference was over, our phone just blew up because they had released enough HIPAA information to where you could get online and put in about three Google searches and my face would pop up because I, you know, most of the executives at the company I worked with were in Boston. And news of the Super Spreader event had just started to break out of the Boston cycle. And, you know, the Tennessee news led with

man takes flight from Boston to Tennessee with COVID. And they basically named where my son was, how old. And so it was quickly apparent who I was. I mean, we had every national news agency, every franchise of every national news agency calling after the press conference. And it was just like what just, I mean. Sometimes it feels like when you get that phone bill, it's like the crash site document. You can't read it. There's a bunch of numbers, random fees, vague language, stuff's blacked out. You're like, what am I actually paying for?

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Book on Hilton.com or the Hilton app and save up to 20% to get the stay you expected. When you want savings, not surprises. It matters where you stay. Hilton, for the stay. It was the first time. I think in the history of a pandemic, you had a face and a name to attach it to.

Typically, you can kind of get sick, you know, behind the scenes and then figure out when you, when and if you want to share anything. So you really post your boy, because I mean, realities of realities, you know, Nate had said this, like the reality is probably the COVID had already come

to the tendency anyway, but you become the face of uninvertently because they, you know, they're trying to, you know, damage control all this from a, from a state health situation, but then you're, you become the guy, patient zero.

You're like Will Smith out there. You're going to survive. I mean, we weren't, we not only had a front row seat to what was going on. I mean, we were now part of the story lawn. And like I learned my wife and son's test results on the news. They didn't even call me.

And we're having to deal with this mass panic that's starting to unfold on our front lawn. So you've got news people showing up at your house? Well, we've got people stalking our house, like cars driving by. I think they were just trying to make sure we weren't going to leave and like they were worried. Yeah, I mean, just looking back on it now, I think we can all laugh a little bit. But at the time, you must have been just like you're the boy in the bubble. Yeah, I was bubble boy.

Yeah. I mean, literally, because my funny, you mentioned this. for the next three weeks. I mean, I just kept getting sicker and sicker and I didn't want to get out of bed. But my wife and son were having to deal with all this just mass panic. Do they get sick as well? They didn't, no, which is crazy.

That is crazy. Yeah, to the day, my son's never gotten. But I'm watching, like, all this unfold. And my son's 14 at the time. So imagine, like, all the things he's getting from kids at his school. Yeah, sure. Like, we were getting hundreds and hundreds of, of people dropping by our front porch, bringing food, bringing cards from their kids, 90% of

which we didn't even know. It's kind of amazing because I think if I'm hearing your story, my thought would be that, like, people are angry and people would want to leave, you know, because we saw so many people treat their neighbors like they had to plague or or go brown shirt and start reporting their neighbors if they went outside, if they didn't wear a mask outside, all the crazy stuff that even in Tennessee we saw happen. So that's actually kind of cool. that you had this community that came around you and said,

hey, we're here to take care of you. The first three weeks, I mean, you definitely saw some of that. But there was this piece of God started showing up. And it was just beautiful. And I watched this unfold. And I just felt compelled to share it just on like social media to friends and family. I didn't know news reporters were kind of stalking my. Yeah.

Facebook page or what. whatever, and the minute I did, it ended up in every newspaper in the world the next day. And the interesting thing about your comment of bubble boy, my wife had talked to me into putting on this bubble wrap, you know, like they put in boxes and stuff. She talked to me into like covering myself in bubble wrap to send to my niece to cheer up. She's a nurse and she was working in ICU. It's just to make a bright spot in her day. But she taught me into posting that with the message to friends.

I didn't realize that was going to be the picture. in all these newspapers, which is not really how you want your moment of fame. You could have really. But it was crazy. After that, the calls continue. I mean, we, Oprah, you name them. They were contacting us to just, I think people wanted to hear a different narrative. Yeah.

Knowing now what you know, you could have ultimately trolled the news so hard. Could have went out in like front yard and like walked around, stumbled and fell over and like, a speedo or something. It had been. Scandal. You could have been just trolling the news every day doing something, but you obviously, you believed it too. And we all did.

Yeah. Especially in like at least a couple weeks, everyone was like, whoa. Well, listen, I lived it. And that first strain again was, it was the real deal. Like, it was. I mean, it got you. I think I cough for like two months. Yeah.

I remember trying to do the podcast and coughing in the middle and editing. out all these coughs for you. I remember that too. For like, yeah. I was just sitting there. Man, I'm still coughing. I've been editing out coughs for two months now. Yeah.

It was brutal. Did you have any after effects? Oh, I definitely think so. Yeah. Definitely feel like my memory wasn't as strong. Couldn't recall things. Like, I remember in the beginning, because all we have to do is remember all the episodes we've done.

That's all we have to do. Like, in terms of like building on each episode builds on the next one. and you kind of learn a little bit more as you go since we started kind of fresh because we don't have a lot of paranormal experiences ourselves it was just hearing other people's i was like i can't remember who did we interview two weeks it just started to like get foggy but yeah that's yeah i got uh long hauler really bad heart rain fogg um man but i had to so i get sick and then have to roll out of bed and figure out how to go hire hundreds of people and stand up a business unit.

Unfortunately, when I put a message out on social media, news coverage picked it up, and it put the entire story of the event that I was out back in a news cycle. And so I went from being really sick to then having to work in this environment where I was asked to give a public apology to their CEO,

over what that post you made those yeah that had spoken out which it was was again to Facebook and the message was really positive it was a message of faith be the church there's trying to change the narrative but it put the the company back in a news cycle and so I was careful on the wording you know if this caused any distraction the patient's getting on therapy you know I apologize for that because it's never something you want to do, but for the next two and a half years, I had to work in an environment where you could cut the tension, you know, with a knife. And then two and a half years later, just like that, the music stopped. You know, we spent all of this effort to commercialize a new

therapy, which got approved. And unfortunately, due to a Medicare decision, the drug business, you know, your business models based, your customer is really the payer that, you know, pays for the drug. You're focused on the patient, but if the payer doesn't pay for it, you know, it's, it's, um, makes it really challenging. So we had to shut our business down in June of 2022. So I'm walked this two and a half year journey that at first I thought was separate from this chapter. Now I know it's one. Um, God was just setting the stage for a massive Holy Spirit encounter that was about to change everything. Where's your faith at before all this?

I grew up in church. Yeah. Like I knew all the stories of the Bible, but I didn't really know the story of the Bible. And I didn't know God as a friend. And so I knew God as a father, but I didn't really feel like a son. If you know that kind of paradigm of slave orphan son, I was probably somewhere between slave and orphaned, you know, where I just, I felt like I needed to do everything. A little more than a cultural Christian.

Oh, 100%. Like, we weren't involved in organized church per se. We went to church. But, you know, I always kind of kept an arm's length. I had had all this trauma growing up that I was, you know, my success in the corporate world wasn't from trying to climb a ladder. It was really running from demons. And the harder I worked, the better I did.

And it became a self-fulfilling prophecy. I didn't have to think about this. It took a long time for me to realize, you know, purpose isn't something you chase, it's something you carry. And that's kind of what God was starting to open up. I remember there was this really trans, before things get crazy or blurry. Music stops. I decided I'm going to take a one-year sabbatical because my marriage was on the rocks,

you know, during the last two and a half years after COVID, I'm working 60, 70 hours a week. My schedule is literally in 15 minute increments from 6.30 a.m. until 7 at night sometimes. Fully scheduled. All day. Fully scheduled, no break. Because, you know, you're having to, you've still got all this responsibility of, you know, standing up a business unit, making sure, you know, you can meet all the corporate expectation, investor expectations.

and there was just no pause. And so at night I'd drink enough bourbon to just go to sleep. And it had put a big strain on my marriage. And I didn't realize how big a strain. And I had such bad brain fog. And my relationship with God had fallen, you know, was fractured severely. And so I said, well, I'm going to take a year, kind of get healthy again. And at the end of the year, I thought, well, it's going to be easy to get back in, you know, just for perspective, you know, in biotech, especially if you do a lot of startups, at a minimum, people are going to want to sit across from you just to learn what you've learned, steal what you've learned, if you will.

And I thought it would be really easy to jump right back in. But for the first time in my life, I couldn't get a phone call returned. and I'd always been pursued like whether it was you know being recruited to companies or even people having to wait to get on calendar because of just the size of organizations that it led and for the first time it was like stillness

and I made the mistake of reading Dante right when that stillness hit and if you've never read it careful it will wreck you but the book Dante opens and then Ferdo midway through life I found myself in a dark wood alone and men it just hit me to the core because I was in my 40s I was all

alone I commuted to work for two decades you know all of the U.S. mostly the Northeast and all my friends were in other parts of the country there was nobody here and I remember thinking if I died tomorrow who come to my funeral and I mean it was just like that look in the mirror like who am i like dark night of the soul oh man it was it was it was the start of a very dark chapter um and i was still in the dark chapter from covid but god was really just bringing me into a hebrews moment where he was about to shake everything in my life that could be shaken because i went from never having to worry about money to one year turns into two years yeah not even be able to get a return phone phone

call from anyone in the industry, which makes no sense because I've had wild success. And then I thought, well, I'll just get a job locally. You know, I've got a master's degree and, um, you know, healthcare, we're in the health care central. And I've always scaled companies from zero or divisions from zero to 300 million, zero to 500 million, zero to 700 million, zero to 700 million. And so I knew how to grow business. And I thought, well, it'd be no issue finding a job locally.

And literally for seven hours a day, I'm trying to put a day together just to network into getting in front of someone. And it was like I'd walk through the valley of shadow of death that God was holding me in a headlock down to rest and wouldn't let me up. Couldn't get a return phone call. And after the second year of no paycheck, you know, in the corporate environment, you do well, but a lot of your compensation at higher levels is Todd to stock. that wasn't vested. Yeah. And so I didn't have an exit. And there's only so much margin you have, you know, to work off of.

And my son's getting ready to go to college. And so we're starting to have to put on hold everything we'd planned for his senior year. And I'm just trying to put together a day, like be around people because I need out of my house because, you know, I was so chained to a desk during COVID. I didn't want to be there. And I remember just sitting in cigar lounges, which is crazy as that, you know, I didn't smoke a lot of scars then, but I just needed to be around people.

Yeah. I'm listening to them talk about growing their companies from, you know, zero to a million, zero to two million, and knowing that I'd done that at scale, but they're looking right past you. And I just, I didn't realize how much of my identity was taught into something and it was never supposed to be taught into.

And that hits everybody at different stages of life, you know, like when their first empire sort of comes crashing down. You know, for me, I was like my early 30s. It happened to me, you know, like going from... Kayak gets my flight, hotel, and rental car right, so I can tune out travel advice that's just plain wrong. Bro, Skycoin, way better than points. Never fly during a Scorpio full...

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try to figure out how to like put pipes together and it was such a, those moments I can relate to it. It's so, the juxtaposition of your new life and your old life are so heavy. It's like, it's like movie ready. Yeah. You know, like this person, who they used to be and then who they are now. How long ago was this?

From like when I was 20 till about 31, you know, just, I felt like all my gifts are being used. And then all of a sudden it was like, who am I? And every time you say that anyone says on a show, I have that Derek Zoolander. That's not what I'm saying. Staring into the puddle of water. Who am I? I don't know. I don't know.

Like every time it says it or I say it, I laugh because I see that scene in my mind. It's either that movie or I legend, I am legend. Oh, that's a great movie. I was thinking at the beginning of this, like, you almost had your I am legend moment. You were almost Will Smith out there. You know, all the rest of us just got it later and tanked. And then you could have been. It was a little different though when it came away.

But that's what we all thought. That's what we thought was going to happen. But that, anyway, that knew the old life. Count of Monte Cristo kind of like, who did I used to be? And we all have that. I mean, some people just, they're born successful.

They're born to do something. They do it their whole life. And you're like, I don't know what that's like. But some people have that sort of easy road in life where they don't reinvent themselves several times, you know. Yeah, I think sometimes God has to interrupt our plans

not to ruin them, but to rescue us from them. Yeah. And for me, that was certainly the case. And I remember, I mean, that whole COVID experience literally could be a movie. I gave you the very high-level cliff note. But, you know, there was so much searching and all of that and just trying to fight for air. And I remember it was actually last March of 2024, right before all of this encounter that I had. I'm two years. plus into a sabbatical that was supposed to be a year, no paycheck. I've gone from never having to worry about money to clipping coupons in Croger because I don't know how long it's going to last. And I need like something to fulfill me. And so I volunteered for Tim Tebow's Knight Deshaun.

And it's a prom for mentally handicapped adults. And I get paired with this guy named Peewee. And he's like in his mid-50s. He's got Down syndrome. And the minute he walks in, it's held at a mega church here in Franklin, the minute he walks into an auditoriumang spot him. He's got this white tucks on. He's got this smile that just lights up a room. And the very first person, he, as he's entering the room, he grabs the first person he sees, Han Pee-wee, you look wonderful tonight. Ham Pee-wee, thank you so much for volunteering.

Han Pee-wee, thank you so much for being here. We're going to have a great time. And there's like this huge receiving line stretching across the auditorium. He's got a bunch of people waiting behind them trying to get in. And, you know, there's always that awkward pause when you enter a room. Like, how long do I hover? Do I keep going? Do I not? I mean, he's fully locked into every conversation until it naturally ends.

The guy could have Bill Clinton taking notes. Like, he was on how to work a room. But it wasn't like superficial. Like, he was truly investing in every person he saw. he finally got to me and, you know, kind of set up the night for him and told him we're going to have a great time. And the most powerful moment of the night happened. We're on our way back to the back of the building. And you could hear the music coming out of the back room because it's supposed to be a prom.

And I'm watching this elderly lady with cerebral palsy being escorted out. And it's clear she's about to lose it. She'd gotten overstimulated from the music. And I can see everybody just starting to part out of the way, like just giving her space. and they're moving as fast as they can out of the auditorium or out of the music room to get her fresh air. And I'm watching Pee-wee and he's positioning himself like right in her path. And they get closer and closer until probably until they're from me to you.

And Pee-wee hits a knee. And I'm like, what do I do I do I nudge them? Do I not? As I watched this, the people escorting her and they're coming around behind her. Like, how do we get him out of the way to get her out? And he looks into her eyes, Nate, and he's not looking at her eyes. He's looking at the depths of her soul. It's like, Ham Peewee.

You look wonderful tonight. And instantly her entire demeanor changes. Like she went from almost about to lose it to like radiating joy. And I felt like the hand of God came down and grabbed me by the neck because I came into the night asking myself, God, what is it I'm supposed to be doing in this next season? What purpose am I supposed to be chasing? And in that moment, he told me I was asking the wrong question. The question I needed to be asking is, God, who have you created me to be? I mean, it's a fundamentally different question.

Yeah. And in that moment, I'm looking at pee-wee down on his knee. And he's seeing the depths of the person in front of him, radiating joy. Like, his presence has felt, but he's not, here I am. He's coming in. There you are. Yeah. And I felt like God.

was setting the stage for a wrecking that was about to happen. Yeah, it's like, so peewee was on a different frequency and you could see it. 100%. 100%. And I came out of that night just so blown away, but yet, like, I'm starting to kind of see my life reorder, but I'd never, you know, all my friends had moved off. And then all of a sudden I had this moment where God started opening door after door after door and they weren't jobs or anything that related to fixing my monetary situation, it was

friendships and relationships. And I went from zero community to 10 to 20 to 50 to 100. And it was kind of weird because, you know, I grew up in church, but you kept your church and church and you didn't bring God outside of the church, maybe at night when you said your prayers before bed or whatever, or grace, you know, before food. But these were like, you'd be hanging with a group of gods and it would break out in prayer. And at first, it freaked me out. Like, I just, I wasn't used to that, the level of depth, but I could tell God was doing

something. Like, he was surrounding me with authentic relationships. And I found myself spending more and more of my day when I was done trying to find a job in prayer and, you know, just trying to understand what God was doing. And then this moment happened where a friend said, hey, I think you're supposed to go to this guy's church. and have him pray over you. And I'm like, at this point, I'm desperate. I'm two and a half years in with no end in sight.

I'll try anything. And so I go to his church. I wait for him to get done preaching. And I walk up front. By the way, everyone knows who this is because he's been on our show. Okay. So you can talk about Grant Pemberton if you want. I got to Grant's church.

And I wait for him to get done. And I go up front and, first off, the service made me uncomfortable. You know, my wife and I used to have names for people when you were in church service and they put their hands up in worship. And we called them live ones because you never know if you were sitting by a lov one until the music started. And it just made me incredibly uncomfortable.

If they grab a flag, you're, you got a, you got a real. I'm 100%. And so I'm going to this church and everybody's got their hands up. And I don't, I didn't have a box for it. And he, I go up to him and said, hey, Grant, David said you're supposed to pray over me. Something about baptism of the spirit. And he said, okay, let's do it.

I'm like, you mean like right here in front of everybody? And he's like, yeah, let's do it. He calls up a couple of missionaries and they put their hands on me. And I'm so uncomfortable, but I'm also desperate. And they start praying. And a couple minutes into the prayer, Grant leans in and says, hey, don't freak out. You may hear something.

I'm like bro, I've been hearing Shaka something for the last minute. He's like, don't freak out. Just relax. I'm like, well, of course I'm going to hear something now. You just told me I'm going to hear something. So my brain's going to make me hear something and make something up, right? So they finish praying. I get a couple more words.

I'm just looping phonetically in my head so I don't forget them. When they get done, a beeline out of the church, because I am like fish out of water, so uncomfortable with the environment around me. I get to my car and I write down. phonetically in my notes to my phone what I heard. And I get home later that day, I get busy. And later that day, I remember that, you know, what had happened. And I pull up my phone, copy and paste it.

And to chat, GBT, search every known language, does this mean anything? And it comes back, perfect Hebrew, praise the Lord bow down before him. is what I heard in Hebrew that he was praying. He wasn't speaking in tongues. He was just praying, but that's what I heard in my head at the time they were praying over me. And it freaked me out so much.

I didn't even tell my wife for four days. Because, you know, I burnt to me. How did you hear it in your head? Like audibly? I just heard audible. And you don't know what it is. You're just like, okay, I'm phonetically. It's not like in your mind.

It like kept coming syllable by cell. Like it kept hearing shaka, shaka, shaka, shaka. And then more would come. And you don't know Hebrew writers. I know Southern and English. Southern and English. I'm the Baptist boy. Like, what just happened?

And Southern is barely English. It's more astute. Oh, yeah, it could be more proper English. Yeah, it's more proper English. Well, sure, maybe. So four days later, I tell my wife. And she doesn't know what to think about it. But she started to see, like, me lean more and more

intimate faith, you know, because when you go through an area of stillness and God has shaken everything that the world tells you you are so that he can rewrite who you've always been made to be, it does start to transform, you know, you at your core, but she hears this and I don't know what to do about it. She didn't know what to do about it, so we followed away, right? Do you think at that time it is Hebrew or do you just, or do you know it is or do you think it is? No, no, no. When I first put it in, it was search every language. Does this mean anything?

Like, does any language have these syllables? And then that's when it came back, literally perfect Hebrew. Not just modern Hebrew, but ancient Hebrew. Which is wild. So. That or Fazi Bear, right? Remember he's kind of smock-a-waka, waka. You're like, what am I hearing right now?

So two weeks later, Nothing else happens. I'm continuing the natural world just trying to fix my situation. I feel like I need to plant seeds, knowing God will water them or not, but I've got to find a job. So you're kind of in between, like, skeptic, believer. This is a Bose moment.

You've been there before. Somebody's apartment, small talk that's going nowhere, plastic up that's almost empty. It's not great. Then someone hits play on a Bose speaker. heads nod, feet, tap, one person dances than everyone does. Awkward becomes electric. When Bose sound fills the room, you don't just hear the music.

You feel it. Your life deserves music. Your music deserves Bose. Find your perfect product at Bose.com. Like something's happening. Ships about to sail. I know it's coming. Yeah, so this was June of last year.

Okay. So in January of 2024, I started getting during. And I've never had dreams in my life. And to this day, I get four dreams a night, vivid dreams. And so I at least started, I didn't have a lens to like know how to interpret them, but I was like just putting them in like, does this mean anything? And all of them are suggesting, you know, that there's this period of healing that was taking place. God's bringing in relationships. God's preparing you for, you know, what's to come.

And it didn't make sense to me because I didn't at that point in time, I didn't know. dreams were a way God spoke to you. That would happen around this time. You're becoming a live one. Slowly. The hands are still in my pockets. Okay. Two weeks later, we're in the large church we attend here in Franklin.

And it's during worship, and they're singing that song, Holy Forever, when the angels cry holy. And my wife sees me pull out my phone, and I'm typing in the notes. She's like, what are you doing? We're in the middle of worship. put your phone away. And I got to know because I'm hearing gobbly gook in my head. Yeah.

And I copy and paste it. And it comes back the song we're singing word for word in Hebrew again. And my first thought was vindication. Like, do you see this? I'm not crazy. Because most of my time in biotech was severe mental illness. Yeah. And there's a point in time where I almost felt myself slipping into clinical depression

because everything had been stripped away. There was no relationships. And I thought, well, maybe it's advanced to something. Yeah. you know else but now for two times you know two times in the last month i've heard a language that i don't know that's spoken into a situation i'm experiencing in that moment just that church or is it just a church okay made no sense um so that is you're hearing the song you're singing as you phonetically are typing it out it's the words of the song in he in in ancient

in Hebrew. Wild. That's wild. Wild. Maybe God knew I was hardheaded and he needed to hit me over the head because if I was thinking something in my head at this point, I would think it's me and not him. I walked out of the church and I like B-Lon started calling two pastors on the, Grant being one of them, like what just happened? This is the second time. Grant was so casual about it. As he is. It's all good, man, language of man, language of angels. And like, yeah, but is it a male, male voice or a female voice? Have you ever heard a voice in your head?

Just like even internally. Yeah. That's what it is. It was just in a different language. I just, some people will describe hearing like an actual voice. I've had that happen, but not. Not with this. Not with this.

Yeah. Okay. This is just like I'm hearing this word in my head and I'm just trying to phonetically syllable by syllable spell it out. Anyway, the next two weeks, I'm still continuing. to lean in. I mean, my faith is growing more and more because I've had some encounters.

I'm having all these dreams. I finally get to this point where I'm in this kind of community discipleship program. And the guy's talking about how God speaks to you. And I remember challenging him about, yeah, but has anybody in this room ever heard God talk to him? Like, let's be honest.

I'm calling them out. And they're all looking at me like, yeah, what do you? Of course, Yeah. I'm thinking the skeptic, no, you haven't. And the guy looked at me. He speaks Hebrew, bro. You ever heard it? The guy looked at me and he said, well, have you ever had dreams? And man, I have to get up and leave the table.

Because the day before it was like a two day class and the day before they were talking about, like, how I was wrestling with God, you know, and just not giving up control. And the night before that night, I had a dream about my son being in a fight and I rush in and break up the fight and just wrap him in my arms and won't let him go, you know, just hugging them like I love him. And I realized when he said, have you ever had dreams? That's how God also speaks to you. I had that dream that night before and it wasn't my son. It was me. And God was the one wrapping his arms around me. Like, I'm here.

I've got you. And I'm now realizing, okay, God has been speaking to me in dreams. But I'm still skeptical because it's all new. Because you're Southern Baptist, right? I mean, it's just, I had been so busy that stillness made me uncomfortable in and of itself. And two weeks go by. And I finally hit a breaking point because nothing I could do in my own strength was opening a door to any kind of employment.

I couldn't even get a job at Home Depot. I mean, it made no sense at all. And I'm almost totally out of money. I'm almost three years into, you know, without a paycheck. And up until this point, I'd probably had a salty discharge of tears in my life, 10 tombs, you know, because I'd had so much trauma. I just put up walls. And I'd just lose it.

It's a Monday morning. I'm just boo-hooing. And I'm like, God, your word says whatever you pray in your name. If it's in your name, you'll give it to us. I'm not asking for a job. I'm not asking for a provision. Just show me you love me. Over and over again, that's all I'm praying.

Show me you love me. Show me you love me. 8 a.m. 10 a.m. 12 p.m. 3 p.m. 7 p.m. 9 p.m. I got no job. So all I only got time to do is walk around and pray. And I'd spend all day praying this prayer that I think. is the most unselfish prayer I've ever prayed.

God was nowhere. And I was so defeated and I go to bed and I'm just like, I'm done. And the next morning I'm waking up and it's probably out of habit that I continue doing my devotional, but I lean in and I come to a passage in Romans, the Spirit will pray your deepest longings. This is where the story gets wild. And so I'm like, fine. Holy Spirit, search my heart.

tell God what it is. I've been trying to tell him. I don't feel like he can hear me and I can hear him. And I go take this walk. And I live in this big master plan development. I told you about with COVID. And the minute my feet hit a sidewalk, something starts coming out of me. And it's not coming from here. It's coming from like the depths of my gut. It doesn't sound like me totally. It sounds totally different. It's in another language I'm guessing as Hebrew, because the first two times were Hebrew. And for the next 45 minutes, I'm walking around the neighborhood, literally looking over my shoulder, just hoping nobody sees me because I'm prayer walking. And because I think I was a nut, right?

Because some crazy guy walking around talking another language. And I remember getting to the last minute of the walk and I stop and I say, God, I want to believe this is exactly what I asked for, that Spirit searched my heart and told you what it is I've been trying to say. But I need proof. Like, I'm still a skeptic. And I record what it is I'm saying. And I get home and I send it to a translation service.

I don't give them any context. I don't tell them if I work in biotech or finance or real estate. I just say, translate this Hebrew to English. I'm guessing first two times with Hebrew, maybe this Hebrew. And this is what comes back. I thank you, Lord Jesus Christ for this day. Thank you, Lord Jesus Christ for this day. I don't know if you can hear me, but I can't hear you.

I can't hear you. And then the second part was the Lord is with you and I am with you and I'll be with you and I'll be with you and I'll be with you and I'll be with you and I'll be with you and I'll be with you and I'll be with you. I'm here today to show you who I am in this world. I am where I've come to hear how you should obey me. We had set me like you did. If you follow the words of my Holy Spirit, you'll be with someone like me. You'll never change.

The Father of the Son and the Holy Spirit are together. I get this and I'm like moving straight from orphan. into sun, like far into sun, because I now realize supernaturally, the creator of the universe has just spoken directly to me. Like, every prayer I thought I'd been praying, it's what we all face, right, and struggle with is that are you in our situation? Do you hear our prayers? And Yeah. I don't know why it happened. Maybe it's because I finally got to that point of complete surrender and desperation that, and God. God met me in such a powerful way and I get this and I'm like, I'm not going to look for another job.

I know he's telling me in dreams now that he's in this situation. I don't know where it's going, but I now trust wherever it is. I don't want to be out of his presence. I've just had the most second biggest supernatural encounter I've ever had my life. First one's a whole other conversation. Something bigger than that? Yeah. This episode is brought to you by Subaru.

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Actual mileage and range may vary. And so our quit looking for job. I literally, I have this piece though, like, God just spoke to me. And two weeks later, I mean, it's like a movie unfolding, right? It's crazy. And this is a five-year journey. This isn't like two and a half years because I've just walked through this crazy COVID experience that I thought was separate, but now I know it's not. And God's been in it all along, just slowly rewriting or reclaiming my identity. And two weeks later, random circumstance, I finally get a call about a job, CEO, you know, doing exactly what I did. In a field, I knew how to quickly scale, grow,

and exit, it would have completely refilled my tank. Financially. Yeah, financially. I could see the exit. I was like, great. All this has been for that, right? It's what I've done for 20 years. It makes total sense. Finally, the doors are opening. And then I'm at this hang with a bunch of buddies.

And I bump into a friend of mine that I hadn't seen in years. And he's like, what are you up to? And I'm not about to tell him my crazy story. I just tell him. I've been on sabbatical and I ask him what he's up to. And he says, I'm looking for somebody to come scale my company. He runs custom home building, architecture, landscape architecture, civil engineering, interior design, land development, you know, kind of full real estate tax.

And would you want to talk to me? And I'm like, I'll have coffee. And, but this over here makes all the sense in the world. That's your wheelhouse over there. Yeah. So I go for what I thought was a 30 minute coffee session that turns into eight hour hang, just getting to know each other and hearing his heart, he's hearing mine. I don't know what God's doing, but I'm just going with it.

And later that week, we meet again because we didn't get to business to think we're going to talk about business. Another eight hour hang, nothing about business. And I'm like, God, what are you doing? And I'm having this dream that is suggesting this could be a direction. He's trying to ask me to go. And then I go, my son is now a freshman at Auburn, and I go to see him for parents weekend. and we're checking out of breakfast the last day, and I strike up a conversation with a guy right behind me.

And he says, which I ask him what his story is. And he said, well, I worked in the chemical business for 20 years. I worked in biotech, 20 years. And three years ago, buddy asked me to scale his companies. What kind of companies? He said, well, landscape architecture, civil engineering, custom home building, land development, interior, like the exact same stack, which doesn't exist.

I mean, it's such a kind of rarity. I'm like, what just happened? And my wife goes on to the beach for a girl's trip. And I have a buddy that's driving back, Auburn's like on the way from FSU. And so he's driving through and he picks me up to take me the rest of the way home. And he has no clue what's going on with me and I'm not about to tell him. But at this point, we are three months past the first event in June that, happened and I'm hearing Hebrew words all the time. So I'll hear it. I won't know what it means.

I'll look it up and translate it. And it's like the purest form of knowing it's not my mind trying to play tricks on me. And I'm having this private conversation with God. I'm like, God, I know I'm like squarely in the middle of your presence. I'm having conversations with you every day for the first time of my life that are so supernatural. If this is the direction you want me to go because every Hebrew word I'd had to this point was like spiritual in nature. And so I'd never heard anything like in the natural world. So I'm like, God, if you want me to go this direction, I need the word building or construction in Hebrew. Like I'm like Gideon putting my right off. It sounds like Gideon. Okay. Just the bargain with God. Yeah, now it's dry. Next time wet.

Let's make this happen. And he's driving and I'm having this private conversation as fast as my thumbs can go, you know, type it in to translate. And the first one was like, go. Go. be sent. The next one was go on a mission. The next one was Fortune Fire within. God is present. I just say, God's saying, I've already told you what to do. Go this direction. And I'm like, no, I need the word building or construction.

Like, I've not gone through this crazy five-year journey to miss you now. I need you to tell me divinely go this direction. Then the next word that comes back was God is in the building of every man. And I text Chris, who's in the audience watching. And I'm like, this

makes no sense. But everything in the natural world says, I need to go this direction and God's saying go this direction, which are like total apples and oranges. Yeah. Right. I mean, and then I get curious because I'm having all this stuff happen. And Grant talks me into just come and hear him speak at a conference that he's doing in town. And I've never even been to a church conferences at this point, much less a charismatic conference. And I go and they've got this keynote speaker from Egypt in and she comes up to me and she puts her hand on my shoulder and she said, I got a word for you. And I'm like, okay. And she literally starts reading my mail. I see you moving into real estate. I see you advising by and selling, you know, all these real estate. I see you,

it's not just one company. It's double prong company. And I see you scale. Like it was so wild, but it was like the fourth confirmation I'd had God wanted me to go this direction. So I said yes. and that's really where this story starts. Like all the crazy stuff let into all of our past that we think defines us. It just points us to our future, right? And God's always writing a larger story. We just have to get out of the way. And so the minute I said, yes, like to this day, almost every single day people show up at our building,

sometimes one, sometimes non-people. and some of them are on calendar, some are not on calendar. And we end up in this discussion of faith for an hour to two hours every single day, which is morphed into this whole other thing. After I joined Chris, who I work with asking like, where do you pray? Because I told him my full story, which is a lot. And there's this place I go, we all have like a secret place, which I always thought was goofy. to say, what do you mean you got a secret place to pray?

You don't pray in your bedroom or whatever. And then I found one. And it just happens to be on the highest buildable point in Franklin. And it's a secret space to me. And I go up there every day, every morning to pray. And I've had so many, like, crazy encounters up there that Chris, when I first started down this journey, we both knew God was doing something. And which is just a testament to his faith because he didn't need a supernatural encounter

to know when God's moving, nor does anyone, right? God talks to us all in individual ways, and our life is judged by the fruits, not the gifts. And, you know, my wife has been on this journey, even to this day, and if it wasn't for the fruits, like to see the total transformation, it's so much to kind of wrap your hands around. But anyway, Chris said,

hey, can we go up there and pray? And I'm like, sure. I'm happy to. Take him up there, and it's like the spirit of God falls down on him. He has this massive Holy Spirit encounter. He comes back. He tells another partner in our companies about what happened. And then that partner brings his wife, and they come up.

Spirit of God falls down, massive Holy Spirit encounter. Then they tell people, and now every week since last, December every week every other week we've been praying over people it's like worship and prayer nothing organized it's intimate like I've kind of tried to guard the sacredness of it and I have two rules I don't invite anybody like I feel like if I invite someone that's me trying to engineer what God's doing I wait for them to say I had I heard about this I'd love to come join and check it out. You guys came and I'd love to dove into that if we can.

Yeah. Yeah. Which happened. Luke said, hey, I really would love to come. I want to see this. And but we try to keep it intimate and small and I can tell you I've watched the Holy Spirit fall over a hundred times and I've tracked what's happening after. And it's like this whole new level of freedom. And I don't know, like, I don't think you have to have a supernatural. I know you don't have to have a supernatural encounter to have a supernatural encounter to have. an intimate relationship of God. But there's this piece that when you know he's in your circumstance, when you know the God you've been praying to and you've been reaching out to and you've been searching for in desperation, sees you, hears you, and is right beside you, it changes everything. And it's that level of release that's happened. I mean, I've seen healings, which we'll talk about in a minute, seeing deliverances.

I've seen things. I could never put into a concept because it's never talked about. And to me, that's the, I would have given anything to be in earlier on in my journey of faith to know the spirit of God is real. He's real inside me, but I didn't, like, I just didn't know the depth of relationship that's available. And it doesn't mean you got to speak in tongues or anything. It just means like being totally sold out and knowing he's there and knowing how to hear him. And we all hear people, like my dad can, here's God all the time. He doesn't hear it supernaturally.

He hears it in his head. He's got an intimate relationship, been on a walk. So I don't, again, it's more about the fruits in your life, but, man, it's watching it change people's lives and watching the awakening that's happened and listening to what God's telling me in dreams. Like my dreams are 10 times better than any of these stories because I've watched now, Chris and I've watched multiple dreams. God tells us and then they later come true.

and like gives us words to speak into people that like we talked about earlier, which I'd love to unpack. You know, when you start getting words for people that have nothing to do with you and you're just, try not to screw it up. You're like, God, what do you want to say?

It changes everything. Chris, why do you, why do you think you had personally had this experience? Like, I mean, maybe that's something. I'm sure you've wrestled with.

You're like, you know, of all the people, you know, why, Why do you think this particular experience with the Holy Spirit happened in the way it did with you? Like, is it because you're such a skeptic

that it had to happen and repeat and repeat? Or do you think, because that's the thing you wonder, like it's like the whole idea like, why does God heal one person, not healed the other? God speaks differently to all of us. And this way is crazy, you know, supernatural to hear ancient Hebrew and not understand what you're hearing and how this, you know, have you spent any time kind of being like,

why? Why do you think this happened to you? Yeah. I mean, there's a lot to that. The first experience, I think, may be related. I don't know. The supernatural experience, which was in 2010. But I think it's a point of total surrender.

You know, it sounds wild to us, but in other countries, this is normal. Yeah. I mean, and we try to, like, put it off on an island like it's weird or, you know, you're, different or you're crazy. I did. I did. But, but, yeah. But, and I think it's because we are so dependent on ourselves to do anything. And it took God totally humbling and shaking everything about my life.

Interesting thing was, um, when I left my last employer, I heard in my head, I'm going to take everything away and then I'm going to give it back tenfold. My wife heard I'm going to restore all the time that was lost. Mm. I was with my last employer, $100. 27 weeks to the day. From my last day at my last employer to my first day in this new journey was 127 weeks to the day. From my last paycheck at my last employer to my first paycheck and my new employer, my bank account had zero.

There's almost three years, no paycheck. You know, God's, the way he works, it defies our natural law. and how we try to explain away. So I don't know. Like, I think an encounter with the Holy Spirit is just an invitation to go deeper, right? And it just, it's a reminder that God is constantly pursuing us and wants to have a deeper level of relationship with us. I don't think you have to have it. I think God just wants all of our heart in whatever form that looks like.

With me, I do think there was a level of skepticism. I think there's a level of what he's telling me is coming, at least, you know, in my individual assignments, you know, we all have an identity and calling and assignments may change. But I think that's a component of it too. But I think there's an awakening happening. I mean, you can be doom and gloom or not or believe in times, but in the last days, I'll pull my spirit out upon my people. And I'm watching that happen live time. I'm watching it. happened. It happened last week. I prayed over someone. Similar background. They got a spiritual gift for the first time. And it's, and I'm watching my friend Chris go from the same upbringing I

had to now he's getting words of knowledge for people. And, you know, I'm, I'm seeing this like spread like wildfire. And I think that's what God, you know, God doesn't, to answer your question the cry god hears doesn't come from a stage or a platform comes from the floor and to me it's that level of humility and just giving it all over that i think opens up a deeper level of relationship yeah like joel jill jill was it jill 25 to look it up when we were talking about god promises restore the years the locusts of eaten your mind of what you what god told your wife like it's a I see this before as friends, but I think, do you think this is how we're meant to live? Absolutely.

And I think that's interesting because I think this is really kind of a crux of our show in some ways, I feel like, is the idea of re is trying to put the supernatural back into our faith. That's something that some of the folks that have been such an impetus for what we do, have always, Mike, Dr. Michael Heiser. Yeah, it's, yeah, it's the Bob Goff. It's restoring whimsy. It's Michael Heiser putting the supernatural paradigm back into the Bible. It's just understanding that not only is that a part of who we are, we are, you know, body, you know, soul and spirit. We are super, we, there's a supernatural element to our creation,

but also that our faith is, it is that way. And I think it's, it says, I think there's something to read into that it, that experiences like your, like your story are such, feel like such outliers when as you pointed out like a pretty astutely that like in places where there is not this west maybe western paradigm that the people have much of more of a supernatural worldview and this wouldn't be so you know weird maybe have you heard the story from anyone else like this i've asked has anyone um got more as another language and actually we met someone this last week, who was wild.

He's got like 12 different languages. He lives. He's a missionary in another country. You know, I think people get, I guess they call them tongues. Yeah. I don't know why I got a language. It doesn't happen all the time. I mean, it's just like a word for someone.

You know, if you've, if you ever gotten a word of knowledge, God gives it in a moment. And, you know, but I know when I get it. I know instantly it's like something slips. I know that's it. But I also don't chase like to me, there's a difference in chasing it and another and just, you know, the gifts are to edify and encourage,

right? And to point everything back to God. And what we're seeing is that's made manifest and what's going on in this situation is it is wakening people to a different or a deeper level of relationship with him. And our heart is never, you know, one of the things I've said, and if you're listening to this and you haven't gotten a spiritual gift, you have one. Your testimony is a gift. Yeah. The word about

testimony, I have probably unlocked more or created a greater hunger in just pursuing God through a testimony than I would ever do through telling people or sharing a gift. And I think that's something we all have, there's power in our story and just being real and authentic. You know, the interesting thing, during my sabbatical, I spent three years sitting around cigar lounges just trying to find community. And so over time, people learn when you don't have an agenda, like, I'm always in rooms. I have no business being in because I'm the only guy there that has no transactional need. And I just want to pour into people.

But you would be shocked how much trauma there is. especially in an area like Williams and Kelly, that, you know, more successful you are, you usually running from something or, you know, just don't want to face. Yeah, or trying to prove something to your dad or, you know, there's all these different things people have, yeah. And so I think, like, you learn the power. And again, going back to Dante,

there's a shift that happens that, you know, when you quit worrying about a resume and everything you do is focused on eulogy. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And to me, this second half of, of my life, everything, every conscious decision I make, I'm trying to make in light of what do I want people to say when they come to my funeral?

Yeah. You judge your life, not in the size of your bank account, but in the number of Christmas card you get. I mean, think about that for a minute. Like success? I mean, what impact do you have it on people? And to me, one of the best things about this new chapter is just watching all these people that you're seeing

finally step into freedom for the first time. Yeah. And it's just so life-giving. It's funny, like we're such destination creatures. You know, we just put our head down and we want to get to the destination. I think one of the things we say here is enjoy the journey. And I think the thing, the conversations we have from the get-go, there is no destination to this conversation. There is no rival place.

We don't figure a lot of these things out. It's just the posture of humility and wonder, and we don't know where we're going to go. and I think oftentimes, you know, podcasts have a very clear, like they know exactly what they wanted to hit the algorithms to go here and there. And I think for us, it's just, let's just jump into the weird and wild and see where it goes. And I think a lot of this life here is in a journey with God

to connect with him. You know, who cares about all the accolades and success? Once you get them, you kind of look back and go, man, am I happy? Well, that's, I mean, if you... Am I connecting? There was a golf tournament just a few weeks ago, Scotty Schaeffler.

one golf player in the world. If you saw this interview he did, it went viral. And he basically, he's what you're saying, what you both said is he said that like, I realized that winning the next tournament was fulfilling for about two minutes. And then it wasn't.

And he had this whole, and he got, he gotta got trolled and made fun up for some of them, people, some people got it, but his whole point was like, I worked my whole life to be the number one golfer in the world. But when I do win,

whether I just won the open recently, like the British, to show up and they're called the open now. And he's like, it's fulfilling for about two minutes. And he's like, you know what's fulfilling is my, is being the dad of my kids. It's these intrinsic things that you can't quantify, which is really interesting because I, you know,

I'm sure you can relate in some way. You know successful people that made it the top of the ladder and they go, and that was cool, but that just isn't it. Yeah. And I think we all know that deep down, but people still strive. You know, we're still, we can just get to that destination

to that retirement thing. We can just sell that company. We can just win that tournament. We can win the Super Bowl. We can, these things will be, all. And when people get there,

they find out, man, that's in, someone's that analogy said that like, and people climb the ladder their whole lives, it's like when they reach the top,

they realize that they put their ladder against the wrong wall. But you don't really realize until you get there. That's like a frequency, though. That's like a frequency that people live in. And you're talking about going up here.

and then all of a sudden you're kind of a little more weightless, but it's more fun. I mean, there is freedom and knowing, and I said it earlier, but purpose isn't something you chase. It is something you carry. And I think sometimes God just has to get us out of our own way to do it and to realize we're made for so much more.

Yeah. I switch for it said. I'd love to hear, I mean, you guys have listeners that tune in to your show a lot, but you got to come up. Yeah. I could just tell you how I ended up there. I can speak to one thing real quick. I remember at the end of my music career,

there was a moment in my looking back. I wished that I would have been able to step outside of myself and whisper my ear, this is as big as it's going to get. This is the moment you've been waiting for. And for me, it was only 500 people, 600 people sold out show, right, or our headlining tour or whatever, that we'd worked for for like six years to get to that point, right? But it was like in my mind at that time in my career,

I thought we're going to the House of Blues, then we're going to like small amphitheaters, we're going to keep getting bigger. And that wasn't the case. And so I had a 10-year gap of like, like you said, just mine was 10 years with like, what do I do? How do I feel? This is crazy.

I was signing autographs. And I'd be like in sweats, dad mode at the, like the local store and someone would be like, were you with a singer of Bubba, blah, blah. I'm like, yeah, that was me. I'm just looking a haggard. Like, what are you doing now?

I don't know. Great question. I don't know what I'm doing with my life. And really wandered for a long time trying to figure out what was going on, what was happening in my life. And then obviously there was a lot of our listeners know the story of blurry creatures.

But I had a moment when the beginning of this podcast, I knew it was loose. I was like, I had this vision of this thing, and I didn't want to do it alone. I knew that right away. Like, when you do something alone, it becomes about you. And then you're ultimately miserable because you don't, it's just you. It's the you show.

It's blah, blah, blah, with me, you know. I didn't want to do that. And I knew that there was something bigger here with blurry creatures. It was creatures, their stuff. It's weird. We're going to go down. And then I remember I was so like. like bummed for like eight months trying to figure out like I had this idea and then it was like

clear as day like Luke tweeted about Bigfoot and he was like he's the one and it was like the matrix moment I was like and I was excited and I was trying to hold back my excitement on the phone call with you that first day because I knew whoa like something's about to happen and it was a cool moment for like 10 years waiting for like that moment of like this is what you're to do now. And I don't even know if it took Luke a little while to kind of like catch up to where my brain was because I was so visionary like we're going this direction. But blurry started in that in that sphere of like trying to trust and have faith and listen to God's voice. And like I was a Southern Baptist kid too. So, you know, Luke had more of church experience that was prophetic and gifts

and things. And mine was like there was like four dudes, pastor sat in these like red velvet throne chairs on the stage and like it was just intimidating and you know you didn't have holy spirit moments showing up and you definitely heard all the ways you weren't living up to the standard of god not god's in the room moving you and so flash forward to like five years in this podcast obviously we don't have enough time to do the whole oral history of blurry creatures but um but throughout this podcast i've been like hearing little things here and there and I called Luke the other day and I was like, hey, what are you doing tonight? You know, just happened to have a couple days where we didn't have anything going on. And we get in these cycles where we're working all day, every day.

And I'm more work when the energy hits and usually hits later in the day. And then I'm working until late at night because that's where the good stuff happens for the creatives. He's like, oh, we're going to the hill tonight. You coming? And I'm like, sure, yeah, I've heard about the hill. I had no idea what the hill was. I thought the hill was. But I was also like, you got to ask Grant. Yeah. Because I don't know if I can invite people to this, you know? Yeah. So I, normally, like, the way I'm wired is I don't really like to walk into something.

I don't know what I'm walking. I don't even, I just don't do that. I like to know, oh, and I just assume the hill was a bunch of dudes hanging out and Franklin. So the cigars, drinking, but I'm supposed to do with the things, does 90% of the things I attend. So, yeah. You know, just like, not too cool, not A-listers and B-listers, whatever, you know, whatever, are just normal folks, you know, just a bunch of guys looking to hang out and cut loose and

good people and then show up and I'm like, oh, I don't know what this is and kind of sitting there going, you know, I felt this weird pull to show up and get there. And then Luke even text me like, are you coming? I'm like, yeah, I'm here. And I think for me, there was probably 45 minutes of things that were said that were really mind-blowing, especially for a Baptist kid. I mean, one was like from the beginning, like, do you guys work together? And I'm sitting next to you, but I'm not like sitting on you. We're in the love seat. And I was like, and we kind of look at each other like, yeah, we do.

Okay. And there was no way that anyone would know that we were working together. Yeah, to preface us too, like until that point, like I knew Chris and Chris and Grant. But I didn't know anybody else in the room, but they didn't know me. And I know that you make, to preface all this, the reason you just have people ask you is you don't want, you want it to be a pure experience. So if God is going to speak, you doesn't want to be, you're not, you're not trying to have some kind of like cloak and daggers magic show. People like know things about whatever, right?

It's meant to be authentic and pure. And so I didn't know anybody in the room, but you guys, and you guys weren't the ones who intentionally weren't praying for us or for Nate. Yeah. I'll let Nate continue, but just to say, like, I knew what we were going to, and I'd been asking to go. But, I mean, all I can say is that, like, our, you know, sort of our attitude a lot on the show is we hear stuff that's wild. We believe that story a lot of times, not always, but a lot of times, like, this person seems legit. They seem like their hearts into the story. They're telling the truth.

I don't understand why they would lie. They don't really want to give their name, address, telephone number, and they don't have a podcast or a book. So I trust you. But my own story, my own stuff, my own relationship with God, like you were saying, like most people have this distance. Like I'm there. I'm in the room, but I don't hear you. I don't hear you the way I want to hear you. And only until the start of blurry is when I started hearing things.

There was something that happened. There was definitely a voice I heard going through my divorce that was like the one time of my life where I really felt like God knew that, you know. like the way of my heart was wired you know like this is going to hurt you a lot so i'm going to tell you first this is going to happen and i didn't believe it of course like i don't believe my own story that's me that's my life i was like there's crazy stuff happening but i'm out there like trying to like grind and work and prove myself to something to somebody you know so obviously things got emotional like pretty quick You know, like, hearing those words come at you, you're like,

I don't even know I'm carrying this stuff around, you know? So, yeah, I mean, it was wild. I think, you know, when you hear things that you carry with you, like what you think about yourself, you know, I think that's, that's something that, like, takes a supernatural encounter, like, God's saying, no, this is what you think about yourself. This is what I think about you. So that was

That was heavy And both Luke and I were getting Like shotgun blasted between everybody And we were like, I don't even know what's going on right now And everyone else was there It was like walking into Like you're supposed to be here You don't know what you're getting involved in

But uh Doing this for five years It was kind of cool like A big break of like I was ready to hear Things that I think a lot of Christians would Write off Wouldn't want to come

wouldn't want to show up because we've been investing in everyone else's story. What's your story? What's your story? What's your book? What's your thing? And we haven't really given to ourselves a whole lot. We've been sort of running ragged trying to produce this thing, make it our job and keep the lights on and compete with a thousand other podcasts and take care of our families and our kids. And we don't think about ourselves a lot. And we don't, you know, he hasn't seen creatures. I haven't seen anything. and so it's always everyone else's world. And then all of a sudden it was like someone flipped the script and said, here, how you experience this?

And so for me it was just kind of hearing like I'm proud of you. Yeah. And I would say too that like, you know, there was a part of this prayer session that was people were praying for Nate. And I look over and like Nate's crying and weeping. And the things that people are, are praying for and praying over Nate, strangers who don't know him,

or things maybe only I know. Maybe less than a handful of people, maybe in the world know. So I know, and I'm starting, I'm like weeping because I know this. No one in this room could know any of this. Like, this is like stuff that we, because we talk eight times a day,

that, and it was, it was just this wonderfully profound moment of the father's heart. Like, and allowing complete, strangers to essentially read Nate's mail in a way that was so beautiful and edifying and loving.

It was like, you know, and I honestly, part of me was like, I'm so glad I'm not the one that's getting this like 30 minutes of prayer, but it was this beautiful thing to see. And the thing I'd say, my perception, as the Nate said, is that I came from a, probably a more charismatic non-denominational upbringing that where I saw a lot of things happen and it was in the 90s and I and I saw I was very skeptical because I saw people get slaying the spirit and didn't happen to me and I was like all these people are getting caught up in this group hysteria and there's a performance aspect that this feels like and so I have a healthy distrust for a lot of that because I feel like I've seen it manipulated and there was this carpet bagger type you know traveling

profits if you will went church to church and they you know they were having these the spirit move and it didn't feel real to me. And being a high school kid then, you know, into my early college days, I was like, this is, this feels contrived. And so, but I knew that also had the flip side of that knowing, like, I know this is real, though, because I've experienced enough to know this happens,

but I'm very, very skeptical about, more or less about it happened to me, right? I can believe that for you, Chris. I believe your story, you know? I believe that for you, Chris, you know? And, yeah. But when you, I think that moment was really cool because, I mean, prophecy in and of itself,

and we've done an episode of few, or not a little bit touched on these things, is supposed to be this uplifting, edifying process. And it's the gift above gifts, above all gifts, Paul says, right? And it was just really cool, like, see the Holy Spirit move. And like, to your point, it's like, it's so interesting. Like, I think it's so interesting and cool to see God moving, like where we live and doing these, these, this, whatever's happened.

is completely organic and authentic enough God. And I know people will be skeptical when they listen, but it's like, I mean, we walked into that room and I kind of knew what to expect. And he got blind, he got blindsided. He got like oaky doked into this meeting, a prayer meeting, prayer, you know. Yeah.

But there was so much there that happened that like was God moving. And it was completely authentic. And even to the point where like my part of the story is I, and I'll delicately as I can talk about this, like, my son was going through some medical things like that. We were really fraying at the end of like, what are we gonna do about all this stuff with? And I knew I wanted to pray about it

because I'm like, hey, as long as things are God's moving here, let's do this and Chris had come over at the end of this meeting more or less and I was to say, hey, can we pray for my son? And Chris's response, your response is the best. You're like, yeah, I don't know if I have any good words for this. I don't like doing this.

I don't know what to say, but let's go for it. And you would proceed to essentially pray over the two areas of his body that needed to be healed. And we had just been at like the highest level specialist the day before to see what happens. And we go home and the next day. It was like a light switch. It was everything was different. Yeah. And they told us that for him to return to normal, it would take minimum six months mentally for him to return to not being afraid and to being.

afraid and to being sort of to and I'm talking sort of in I know I'm talking in generalities just just because it's my son I don't want to but it was going to be this long process of him healing completely from this ailment and it was since that day he has been like flipped a switch and takes six months it took six hours you know I don't or even if that I don't know and I remember I called you and you were leaving from Montana because it had been a week and I wanted to just be like okay you know who knows who knows what's going on with this and I was like I think something happened. And you were on your way to Montana.

You know, Jack's been different, so different since the Hill in the best way. And it was a miracle. I've seen a few miracles in my life. And this is one I will testify to is that God, you know, he did something he didn't have to do, which is the beautiful part of having a good dad, you know. Craziest thing about that story. I told you this, but there was so much happening. And what I love about this is it is pure, right?

And it's not any words you get, any pray you get, it had nothing to do with the person. Like that was giving it. It was like making room for God without any type of stage or whatever. But the interesting thing was when we were praying for your son, I remember in my head thinking because someone was next to me and it was kind of loud. And I felt like my words were fumbling. and I even asked at the end of the night,

hey, can I get a do-over? Without distraction. He did. He texted me, I'd really like a chance to pray over Jack again. And so when you called me, I thought it was to set up Tom to pray for him. And that's the cool thing about God is our words don't even matter. Like that to me, it's like all of this, every time something happens, it's like a deeper level of faith than what God's, because I'm still a skeptic too.

Yeah. Interesting thing about your name, Nate. You know what it means? The biblical gift of God, but also the skepticism piece. No. So I think in the Bible, Nathan was Bartholomew, right? He was initially skeptical of Jesus and then the power that brought as his skepticism moved into faith and how that translated into others. Which is, as you were telling your story, is kind of a cool reminder.

Yeah, it's crazy. God works prophetically in your life. but I appreciate that. I appreciate you guys trusting. We tried to just stay all the way of what's happening. And now it's like the crazy thing. And I think this is something anybody can take away. You don't need the experiences.

But I was telling this this morning in a study we were in. And I know if you got, first off, I've spent a lot of time with Craig Keener, you know, just I still, he's my phone of friend. Is this normal? You call Craig. I love that. I didn't know that. But I'd met him and because he had heard a little bit about my story, he was willing to just kind of listen. Yeah.

Because I needed like somebody unbiased because I've not been in the church world. I mean, we go to church. I don't want to. I mean, I've spent years disciple in my son. But the movement of the spirit is new. And so I needed someone to kind of keep me grounded. But, you know, one of the pieces, and I know there's some context here. So people that are deep into theology do with it what you want.

will, right? But one of my favorite stories in the Bible is the story of the Good Samaritan. You know, I know the context of it is help those in need, but think about it for just a minute. You got two guys that are rushing down the road to get to a platform or the other calling, and they changed nobody. One person saw the road as the calling, and he changed the life. And now I get the ceremony on cleanliness and other things contextual, but I mean, just put yourself in the mind of these guys that are like, that's their job. That's their calling is to pour into other people. Yeah. I mean, they're really just buzzing past someone. I, so I guess to me, the take home message that I try to remind myself every day is you usually

don't meet God in church. You meet them in Uber drivers and cashiers and, you know, people standing next to you in Lawn is just, will you remove yourself in your agenda enough to lean into the moment and just see what God may do? And the main. it you do that's if there's really like a secret sauce to seeing god work that's a availability yeah right i mean it's just peewee's lesson number one be available and pour into the moment you do that and guarantee you're going to start to see god start to move in your life and i mean it's so how long it takes sometimes like i i i think with this it was like um and you know i know luke and i have wired similarly you know we we've been burned a lot we trust hard we very loyal and we're both like just going to put

our head down and do what we can do um and you get taken advantage of a lot in in your in your past in your life or you're the one who's kind of like doing the you're the one who's doing the group project as he likes to say but you know with blurry it's it's it often feels sometimes like it went its own route it was supposed to go this own direction and I think that sometimes we're just supposed to take care of each other in the middle of like this crazy journey we're on because we're unearthing all this stuff we don't even know what to do with we're not smart enough to figure it out um but you know kind of understanding like with this because you never really get to the end of you never really like get to the conclusion that this podcast has sort of forced us to just enjoy the journey because

because there's really not a lot of answers to these crazy things. But what a cool experience it's been, and it's been way bigger than we could have imagined. And I think that had we hadn't had those experiences before we started this podcast, we would have ruined it. We would have turned on each other, or we would have made it about us,

or we would have wanted it to be a certain way. But I think having failed or, kind of succeeded before this. It was a really, a cool timing-wise. But I think for me, it's always felt like God is a little distant. He's always far away. I don't understand. Seems like there's a lot of pain.

I always feel like I feel intense and it's always hurt. It doesn't feel like that resolves ever. And just that night, it was like that was like called out. and also just like, but I'm here, you know, and a skeptical kid could hear it for the first time. And I think if it wasn't for blurry, we probably wouldn't have been able to hear these things. It's funny how, you know, you can do something that's like your job and still be the skeptic, you know, still be, you know, asking the harder questions and going, I don't know. Is this guy legit? not legit i don't know um but we were ready that night to just have have a moment and i'm still unpacking

it i've still been thinking about it since like oh i remember he that's what was said wow that's wild so and usually in my life the things that kind of the conversations i have the for the 50th time three weeks later two months later about an experience i know that that experience was something powerful so appreciate you coming on and get me to cry again Man, you're a bastard. And I love, like, my final thought would be, Chris, I love your story because, like, you're, what I understand is that, like, God, God will go to extraordinary lengths to, to speak to us if we, if we, if we want to listen, one. And two, when he does speak, it's just, it's, it's, it's, uh, I love you. Um, come back to me, obey me. I, I, I, you know, it's this, this beautiful message of, uh, of a father, you know,

and I, and I think there, it's, I think God, like you say, God is, God is, is moving and, and, and I, I think your story is powerful. And I'm, I'm honored that we get to, we got to share some of that with, with our, with our people, because it's. timely. It's timely and it's amazing. Yeah. Listen, thanks for, thanks for let me come on. Thanks for also trust enough to come up and experience. I mean, I don't invite, but one of the best parts of this, whatever this is, wherever this is going is watching God move on a daily basis

just because people are willing to lean in and, you know, challenge what they think is real. what's not. And I'm just as skeptical about certain things. And I hope I never lose that. Honestly. I mean, I have belief. And so to me, there's belief in God and 100% belief in walking in authority of that belief. And I absolutely believe that. But then I'm also skeptical of what I see man. You know, we're imperfect. And so I think if anything, it makes me hunger that much more to dive into the word, to measure the word and the fruits against what I'm seeing. And I mean, it's interesting because I've, I've experienced this with my abroad who's amazing.

I know we've talked about this a lot in our office. The evidence of a changed life has nothing to do with the word or anything else. It's do you love Jesus more? Do you love people more? you know do you surrender your own agenda to meet people where that is a chris i wouldn't have known five years ago and it wasn't because i was trying to drive up a ladder it's just i didn't have margin and it just that anybody knows how to you know kind of pull us away and um but it's really god is doing something unreal and we're seeing in a lot of time literally daily it's a supernatural

encounter almost every day it's been more and more here i mean you know, like I know we kind of hopped into this thing and I think we've, we've gone a long way. We're just driving back from lunch, talking about where we were now until then. It's funny because we just interviewed a pastor who's on the front lines of child trafficking. And I remember, I was like, I feel like sometimes like I've lost a little bit of the feeling here because we do this all the time. And I came from the last time I cried on a podcast episode and I think it was Dr. Gregory Reed. I was thinking about that. He was telling about child trafficking and stuff.

And I was thinking about being a dad and it just brought it out of me. And then the next episode started getting emotional. It's funny how that goes, right? And I think the only thing we can do here is try to be authentic and real. And I just, I think when I walked in the room, I was ready to just, I don't know, God. Like, clearly everything I've done in my life is my way. I've screwed a lot of things up. So maybe you know it's better for the podcast.

Maybe know it was better for my life. Maybe know what's better for my future, my relationships, my friendships, my friendships. And I would like to get out of the way of that and let you do that. And I think everyone listening in your life, you got to that place and Luke too. It's like you can iron fist life and try to make it and be successful. And yeah, you can grow your portfolio. But are you happier when you get there? Are you more fulfilled?

Is life full and new and exciting? And it's like Heiser says, you know, boring with the Bible. And nothing about this is boring, but we make it boring. boring. And as we found on blurred creatures, it gets weird and fun and fascinating. And it still just feels like we're getting started. So thanks for, you know, dropping your ancient Hebrew on us. Keep sending those words over. I want to hear, I want to hear them. If you ever do find Bigfoot, I'd love to know. He's got to be an introvert. And I'm sure he spends a lot of time thinking and has a perspective on how spiders know to put their webs like right at face level when you're

walking through the woods. Well, he's got his own weird language. So if you, if chat, CPD said it was Bigfoot language, we would have had a whole nother thing. I think you made a friend, man. I know, we appreciate that. Yeah, thank you. You know, guys like you and Grant,

Chris Field, those dudes, you guys are, you guys are doing some cool things, man, and having some, you're impacting lives, and I want to encourage you in that. And the power of your story is, your story is so wild. I think we could have probably spent six hours and gone back 2010 and done all of this.

But yeah. Yeah, thank you. Thank you. I'm sure that. Trusting us with that. I appreciate that. Yeah. Thanks for having me.

All right. It's fun.