Blurry Creatures - EP: 360 The Two Creations: Elohim, Pre-Adamites, and Hidden Biblical Narratives with Ali Siadatan

Episode Date: September 23, 2025

Ali Siadatan returns with his most controversial theory yet: that Genesis contains not one, but two distinct creation narratives involving different types of humans. Drawing from Hebrew linguistics and ancient Near Eastern context, Ali argues that the language of Genesis reveals that the word "Elohim" (traditionally translated as "God") is Divine Council language. In this thought-provoking episode, Ali presents his theory that the creation story involves two distinct events: first, the Elohim (divine council) creating humans in their collective image who roam the earth, followed by Yahweh Elohim creating Adam specifically for Eden's garden. This interpretation attempts to solve puzzles like where Cain's wife came from, why he feared other people, and how agriculture suddenly appeared in the archaeological record.From his research into ancient gods and civilizations to his groundbreaking documentary linking UFOs to biblical narratives, Ali's journey challenges both literalist and progressive interpretations of Scripture. Whether you agree with his conclusions or not, his linguistic analysis and pattern recognition raise fascinating questions about what the text actually says versus what tradition teaches. - Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Welcome back to the business. blurry creatures basement. We are back here. It's always 1985 in the blurry basement. And over the years we've learned Luke that when you go back, you have a little bit of that ancient wisdom or new blurriness, things you've learned about and you read the story again. For instance, like Genesis 6 and you plug in like maybe there's some weirdness going on here. You can reread some of these ancient stories again with new fresh blurry goggles. But we have

Ali Seatitan coming in. Hot! Over there in the blurry creature's studio. How you doing, Ali? Very good, Nate. Thanks for having me. It's great to be in the basement here. And we're going to go back to the creation story and kind of reread it, Luke. Yeah, this is the beginning, right? Because we've done a bunch of with Ollie. 199. It was your first episode with us, talked about your UFO experience and your conversion and understanding the Bible. But we've talked about codes of civilization, the throne of Satan. We've gone through a bunch of things. We're going to go further back today to the very beginning.

Yeah, what's roaming around the Garden of Eden? Is there other people? Are there multiple creation narratives going on in Genesis? Is there some hidden esoteric wording that helps you realize there's more going on here than maybe the average Bible reader? Maybe it's not even hidden. I see what I love about this. We go back to the language, right? It's like it's the, is what we started with Michael Heiser in the very beginning. It was like, let's see what the text says. Let the text say what the text says. And Ali, we talked about this beforehand, but great to have you back. And we're going to go back to the beginning. So take us back to to where it starts, right? And this is something you've been talking about and ruminate on and working on for years is this this idea

of what the text actually says about the creation of man and the creation of Adam. And like driving in Egypt, we're going to try to get some questions in. But you go. And we're going to do what we can. No, I look forward to having a nice conversation with you guys about this. You know, it's kind of a controversial topic, the one we're going to today. And so the approach I'm taking about is that of the Berean and the Freethinker. You know, the Berean checks the text. And the free thinker is open to exploring such a dense and mysterious text as the Bible,

especially when talking about things that go back to such ancient times where we don't really have a lot of, it's not like you're studying the Roman Empire, where there's libraries and libraries of writing by the Romans to consult. Yeah. You know, you're going in such a deep, mysterious place in the past that, you know, you're trying to understand

what's going on. at the end of the day, I find that the empirical evidence that we find in the world always ends up supporting the Bible, whether it's archaeology or in this case the fossil record. And I know there's creation science which tries to understand the universe in its own way that fits with the Bible. But for me, there's always been so much evidence both with archaeology, the Table of Nations, the writings of the Mesopotamians about the prediluvian world that I have. felt that there is that I don't need to you know create a scientific model I think that that the Bible you know answers things so I'll tell you the story of of how I came across this um you know this documentary UFOs angels and gods the word gods is a translation in English of the word Elohim and so I was sitting and praying and saying Lord I know that the idea you know

my research and the people have talked to like Chuck Missler and others have led to this understanding that's possible that where we're going with this whole UFO phenomenon is this idea of misrepresenting the angels of the Lord as aliens and casting the Lord as an invading alien and rallying the nations against them. Kind of a good cop, bat cop thing where everybody's an alien and then there's the good aliens, the bad aliens, the bad aliens is the one that's coming that gave us religion, God, rules, morality, the good aliens are the ones here, like in the Garden of Eden, with the serpent saying, here, I'll give you the knowledge. And God being cast by the masons and others is the

one that stopped that knowledge from coming to humanity. Satan is the light bringer, the lucifer, the knowledge giver in the occult. And so this kind of reversal of reality, I thought, okay, but for humanity to be deceived at such a large scale, there I have to find biblical evidence that the enemy, the spiritual enemy, speaks knowledge to civilizations, not just fools people here and there, but actually creates entire paradigms of thought, like thought veils, over entire civilizations. I want to see that in the Bible,

then I be comfortable making a documentary and speculating that that's where we're going because I'll have some biblical foundation to support me. And I said, I prayed to God, and I said, Lord, you know, show me how to, you know, how to resolve this. And then as the answer to that prayer came this insight into the word Elohim. So I sat down and I brought this here for show and tell. I sat down and I printed.

I went to my computer. What year is this? I think it's like around 2001. Ali was on it early. Yeah. The invention of the internet. The invention of the internet. We had Netscape and then Google came along eventually.

Alta Vista, don't forget about that one. Yeah, yeah, Alta Vista, Yahoo. I do all these search engines. And there was a program called ESOARD and it allowed me to isolate any word I want in the Bible. And so I isolated the word gods. And I translated. Why?

Because I had now done a huge research into the topic of the gods and I realized that there was a lot of ancient writings from our ancestors, collectively in Mesopotamian elsewhere, that clearly says, from the point of view, our collective ancestors believe these guys were real.

They attributed so much knowledge, information to them, and spoke about them as though they were real beings. Now, the Darwinists used Jungian psychology, and they say, look, we came from the woods, and we needed to kind of explain civilization and all of these scary eyes

that look out from the woods at us, who were at what, is all of these fears of this primitive psychology we left behind? This is how the Darwin has explained it. Now that we live in civilization, well, we were going to create this myth that explains our fears and this understanding of the unknown of these mysteries. And then the Marxists come and say it's the opiate of the people, meaning that the social classes that are ruling will create stories to fool the other people. And we classified as myth because of Gordon, child who was an archaeologist who did that and that's a different story. It's a very interesting story.

But our ancient, our collective ancestors I noticed spoke about these beings as though they were real in their libraries and writings. The gods. The gods. Okay. The Iloni. So I thought, I got curious. I thought, well, what does the Bible have to say about all of this? Is there any Christians in the time talking about this? No one. Literally no one. And the Nephilim, yes, but not the gods. And so I sat down and I typed in the word gods, thinking, well, you know, I'll get a page or two printed out from the Bible. I mean, what would the Bible have to say about these, you know, mythological occult beings, you know. But then next thing you know, it spat out all of this. And it's like close to a thousand verses spat out at me, you know, from the Old and New Testament.

I have it right here. This is the original. And so I was like, wow, I couldn't believe it. I was watching my printer go, go, go. I just sat down at my desk and I read all of it in one shot. And that made the difference, I think. What is the traditional Christian view of gods like up until you started researching this from your perspective? Like what do people think about them? So the early church fathers, like Ignatius and others, they did see the gods as real because you have to understand that Christianity was born

in Israel at the time of the Roman Empire. And the Jews, had to explain all of this other stuff that was around them. And so the Bible had a lot to say about it. And the early church fathers who were worshippers, like we're living in the Roman Empire, who were now receiving this knowledge of the one God, they had to explain themselves. What were they letting go of?

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Now, those ideas went back to Greek philosophers. There were Greek philosophers who used to argue that these Greek gods can't be actually the manifestation of the supreme creator because they're too capricious. Their characteristics are too low. And the idea that they were just made up was an idea that existed even in the mind of some Greek philosophers. But ultimately, the worship of the gods was not classified in the ancient world as mythos, but as verbos. It was part of the bodies of knowledge that you take seriously. That's why most of the senators of Rome were priests of Jupiter. That's why the royal palaces were built next to the libraries that contain the knowledge and teachings of the gods.

So that the priests and the rule government could consult it. And that's where the library of Congress comes from, the whole concept of it. It's a cross from the capital. Is there more access like pre-crucifixion to these gods? Oh, yeah, I mean, they're huge. The Roman Empire was a deeply religious place, and sacrifices were happening 24-7 in these temples. Then when Christianity was born, there was a huge amount of resistance

coming from that spiritual tradition. That's why led to the persecution of Christians that were teaching monotheism. So when I sat down and read all of this story, So coming up to 2001, we've had thousands of years of slowly drifting away of an opinion of the guys. Exactly. Okay. And it was mythos. Now it was all just a bunch of mythology, meaning that they were idols.

They're made up stuff. And that comes from the idea that when the trend, one of the attacks that's against the West, like in other parts of world, you have Islam or Hinduism. But here you have this religion that disguises a non-religious. which is this atheism, scientific age, Marxism, communism, philosophy, things that are not meant to be religions, but are elevated to the level of religion. And they form the paradigm of thought in this culture to counter the movement of the Holy Spirit. Because there are thought paradigms thrown over the various civilization. So materialism and atheism is the one that's here.

And so the idea is they try to make everything into a myth, including the Bible. It's just the Bible has so many followers that it's harder for him. So they kind of push enough of it in the shade that it makes a story either childish in the mind of some people or inaccessible or reduces it to the evangelism of Billy Graham, which is great, but it's just about personal salvation. That's what's left. So much of the knowledge you need to understand. understand the meta story, the context, has been put in the realm of myth. So the gods are myths. Aliens, well, who knows what that is? Nephilim, what's that? And it goes on and on and on. And that is espoused by the mainstream church. I'm not saying they're bad or good. I'm just

describing reality. Are you saying that the church sort of takes the secular perspective? We slaughter the animal and we only take the thighs and we throw the rest of the animal away. The church adopts much of the ideas of the secular world in itself. The same way that has inherited things from the Roman world and from the pre-Reformation age. It's kind of a mixed bag of secularism, pre-Reformation age, knowledge, and the Bereans I've discovered, you know, since I've been a believer since 1991, is that the Bereans are far and few in between in the church, both among congregants and pastors. So the idea that, and then traditional churches, like the Catholic Orthodox churches,

they're not very susceptible to change. They have entire machinaries of how information is understood and passed down and taught in their seminary system and all that stuff. It's not so changing. While we live at a time of massive revelation from the Holy Spirit

because things are changing in the world and God is preparing us for the season of history that's head of us, he's increasing our knowledge so we can deal with the magnitude of the age that we live in. So on one hand, we have huge amount of information coming from the Lord.

On the other hand, we have these obstacles in the Protestant side and this machinery in the more traditional mainstream European churches. Can you break down the difference between like a God and say like a spirit of Lilith or a Nephalim like a man of renown? What is the difference between these different things? Because I mean, I think most Christians will say they understand a demon, they understand a demon. Right, right. Demonos.

But they don't understand a God or a man. Nehphaly. Demonos comes from Sheaedim, which is also in Deutonement 32. So Sheidim is an Elohim. That's what it says in Detrami 32. But basically the difference is this. You've got what Christians call the fallen angels, which is, in my opinion, physical beings. And the Bible calls them the sons of God, the Benehah Elohim, or the Elohim of the nations, the gods of the nations. And there's a reason it's plural. And then you have a, you have, their offspring, which are the Nephilim, which are image bearers of the fallen angels, into the image bearers of God. So God created, and then these guys created into God's creation to mark it with their own image. It's about they want to dominate it through their own image bears, and they want to create the future in their likeness, in the likeness of their thinking. They want to export the revolution from earth into the heavens. And we're told that that one third one with the dragon.

And then you have the fact that they're killed at the flood and their human side dies, according to Book of Enoch, and their spirit then roams the earth, the Nephilim. And that's the root of Shadim, Dimonos, the evil spirits. Their root goes back to the Nephilim. So when the Lord comes and he's casting them out, he's casting out those spirits. So grandpa's the god.

The son is the demigod. Right. And then the spirit of the demigod is the shading. Yes, the demonos, exactly. So that's kind of that. So basically, I looked up, this, the word gods, and so then it hit me as I was reading it, like it was like a thing that fell off my eyes, like a scale,

that wait a second, the Bible talks about these beings as though they are real, regardless of Christian tradition. I could read it for myself. I just read close to 1,000 verses in one shot about a single topic in the Bible. And I realized that it's talking about them, though they're real. You know, God stands in the congregation of the mighty. He judges among the gods.

And the Lord is a great God and a great king above all the gods. He's also called the God of Gods, like in Deutronomy 10, 17, and other places, the El ha Elohim. And I thought, well, why would God have a title that associates him with mythological beings? Like he's the god of mythological beings. Or they fall in their judgment, like in Exodus 12. 12 where God comes to judge the gods of Egypt, why would God judge the figment of the imagination of the Egyptians and put it in his Bible as part of a judgment

over an entire kingdom where he outlines all the people that are going to be judged? And they're all real, except these guys. This is all that thinking that's in the back of the mind, the mythological, yeah. There's multiple gods over Egypt. The gods of Egypt. They're usually 12.

They're sharing. They usually panthal. of 12. Okay. And they're the same characteristics like the sun, the moon, thunder. And then they change names because they have to, they, the names I believe have to do with claiming a scepter of power over civilization and having the civilization identify with a pantheon that now the scepter of rule rests with us.

So it's no longer the Zeus of the Greeks, but the Jupiter of the Romans. It's the same character. Right. But now the scepter of rule is no longer with Athens, but with Rome. So there's a renaming, a rebranding, a re-identification. Well, I would say, too, what's interesting is the First Commandment, right? Yes. The first thing God tells Moses is that you shouldn't have no other gods before me.

And the book of Jeremiah, the longest book of the Old Testament, is entirely about a judgment that comes because the worship of these beings. And Inana has mentioned, the Christian. of heaven, a very ancient one. Dumuzi is mentioned by name, but also Molech is mentioned by name, to whom the ancient Hebrews were sacrificing their children, the way that today people sacrificed to Allah. And then the priests of Molech would surround

the throne of Molech with drummers so that you could not hear the screams of your own children as they were being sacrificed. And so this is what led to the judgment. And so, but listen to, go back to Genesis. Yeah, let's go back to the beginning, right? Because you find, well, you find, so we found a thousand references to the word

Elohim. And it sounds a lot like we talked earlier, like Michael Heiser did, which is just say, what does the text say? And what does this word mean? Right. And why, why have we changed because of our, maybe culture has influenced the text more than what the text actually says, right? It's this idea that we...

Or the gods are like a statue or an idol or gold have. So let's talk about that for a second because that's something people, so first of all, in Romans, the first chapter of the episode of Romans, I think that Paul argues very clearly that idol worship is the worship of the creation or the creator. First of all, he puts it in that broad term. The worship of the creation. And then we see that Satan in the five-eye wills, mention the scroll of Isaiah, where the heart of Satan is made apparent. It says, he says that he wants to be worshipped as God. You know, there are five I wills of Satan. He wants to be worshipped as God.

And that ambition carries to all of them. That's why Paul will say that the worship of angels is forbidden to the Colossians. Because they did that. You don't forbid things that people didn't do, right? So the idea is that an angel can become an idol and then can be symbolized by a statue. And I think that was clearly understood in the angel. ancient world. And Ed possess an idol, like take over, like enter into an idol, right?

Well, yes, but it's kind of like witchcraft. Like if you were like the priest of Zeus and at an important priest of Zeus and you went to the altar of Zeus and you offered a sacrifice and you went up the mountain, maybe if you had word for the emperor, Zeus would haunt you. or if you were the Oracle of Delphi, like when Diocletian sent the message to Delphi and said, what should I do with the Christians? And Apollo said the Christians are the enemies of the gods.

So Diocletian removed all the civil rights of Roman citizens who were Christians, arrested them, burned all the Bibles, and tortured them until the sacrifice to the gods or died. When you need to build up your team to handle the growing chaos at work, use Indeed Sponsored Jobs. It gives your job post the boost it needs to be seen and helps reach people with the right skills, certifications, and more. Spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all your boxes.

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these are dead and mute things like worship me you know so it gets kind of confusing when people read these statements about idols and they go wait a second but it says they're idols yes but there's a context here so once I understood

this I noticed that wait a second these words gods and God's God and Lord. All these terms had a number next to it, and I clicked on the number, and that led me to Hebrew's strong dictionary, English Hebrew dictionary,

and I realized, oh, many of the terms that are translated as God or Lord, in English, they just sound like, in my mind, that guy, like, you know, the creator. But actually, they are referring to very precise things in Hebrew that is being missed. at least to my mind. So sometimes it's L, which is kind of the leader,

like he's the leader, you know, the mighty one, the leader. Sometimes it's Elohe, sometimes it's Elohim, sometimes it's Yahweh, but it's all being translated as God, Lord. So to my mind, I don't see a difference. It's all blurred to my mind. But actually, once I've kind of started to read it from that point of year, I realized it says, for instance, Yahweh is the god of gods. Okay, so one of them is being identified as the leader of the other ones.

Not only is either judge or admonishes them, but is also their leader. And their God, right? Yes. And so with that in mind, I made the documentary, which was, you know, I felt now comfortable that, okay, so these guys were real. They gave the codes of civilization. They gave rulership. They created offspring.

And God did the same by using, you know, by taking Israel. Once I finished reading this that day, all these passages came to life, for instance, Daniel chapter 10, or the conversation between the dragon and the Lord and his temptations. And then I thought about something Chuck Mistler used to say. He used to say that he used to do a study of the sons of God. And I met Chuck several times with dinner. And he really, you know, I learned a lot from him. So he used to say that when he looks at the sons of God,

passages because he wrote a book about the Nephilim and Alien Encounters and he had a cassette tape I have tons of cassette tapes from Chuck and he used to say when you look at all the

passages in the Bible where the term sons of God are mentioned there's one more but he used to say you have to read it in the Septuagint and that's DeTrami 32 verse 8 and he had said it many times what it was that instead of saying that the world was divided between the sons of Israel, it was the sons of God, that God chose the nations and gave them into the hands of the sons of God, and then he chose

Jacob for himself. And now with this insight in my head, that passage meant a lot, it was true. So I got up and I went right to my computer to the same ESort, and I typed in the Septuagin. It was one of the options of Bible copies, and I'd never really looked into the Septuagin until that moment, and there it was. That's exactly what the Septuagin says. said. And now I knew the spiritual topography that was the foundation of all of this research. So the gods were over the nations. And God had chosen Jacob for himself. Now I felt comfortable making the documentary. I felt I had all the building blocks of the puzzle from the ancient world to the modern world that these beings had tremendous influence over a civilization. And one

of their influences was to give the codes of civilization. namely the religions of the world and many other bodies of knowledge like in the book of Enoch we have seven bodies of science as given and therefore it's easy to think that in the future they would kind of create this paradigm of UFOs where they would cast UFOs as the saviors of the human race when it's themselves and cast a lord as the bad invading alien that this was now possible because this had happened many times over many civilizations in the past and it was happening today with Islam and Hinduism and this whole idea of the secret society's creation of this mock religion that looks like atheism or non-religion, but it actually is a religion

and it's going to come out more and more from the woodwork as religion. And eventually the world leader, the Antichrist, at the height of his power, he will essentially be a cult leader. When the power of the dragon descends on him, he will want to be worshipped. And that's the ambition of the dragon. That's the philosopher king. That's the philosopher king. That's who the secret designers are waiting for. Yeah. And the fear was the model of it, right? That's what the fear means the guide. Yeah. Because there was a whole story in Germany, but we'll, you know, we'll talk about this and another time. Slow kids listening. So English to Hebrew. Yes. The word gods gets sort of lost. But the Septuagint, the Greek translation of the New Testament. The Old Testament too, right?

The Hebrew. The Greek translation of the Old Testament, done by these 17th century, rabbis and Alexandra, each in the room, as I said, the libraries of government contain the codes of the gods because the government wanted to consult this knowledge because the idea that religion and government was separate is a new idea, a very new idea. This idea that Islam wants to create a global caliphate, that's the way that most of humanity has worked for most of its history until the 18th century, that civilization codes come from the gods. We are the new people. We are the new people, this idea we're going to have a civilization that church and state are separate, that's the new thinking, that's the new kid on the block thinking.

But real quick, the substitution delineates the gods as angels very clearly? No, it delineates the sons of God as those who've inherited rulership over the nations, as opposed to the sons of Israel, which is what's recorded in the Masoretic text, which is only a thousand-year-old Hebrew document, but it's the basis of the, of all of our English translations of the Bible. You have divine, you basically have this divine being verse human, right? Yes. And the Septuagint and the Hebrew would clearly states,

the text says that the Elohim are divine beings, not, which is what we have with Sons of Seth and Genesis 6, you have this sort of humanizing of these terms when the text itself, if I'm following, says these are divine beings. Well, even reading the Greek version, would have had a completely different understanding. Well, these rabbis, they were told, you know, by the Pharaoh of Egypt,

that the Torah was missing in his great library of Alexandria. The laws of all the gods were there other than the Jewish God. Really? Yes. So then he brought in 70, because there are a lot of Jews living in Alexandria. That's where Jesus and his family went, and that's where Joseph got a job. In the Alexandrian synagogues, they were divided by profession. They would line up in their own professions

so that you could network. And so there were 70 scholars brought in. That's what Septuagint means 70. And the story is that they were, I think was Potolome. They're put in different rooms, separate and isolated, like prison cells. And miraculously, they produced the same exact translation that is matched word for word.

And that's how the Pharaoh knew was the right transition. wanted to make sure they didn't invent it. Maybe they wanted to hide the words of their God and just provide something silly. So that's the story of the birth of Septuagint. That Old Testament was used to preach the gospel to the Hellenized Jews of the Mediterranean, who didn't speak Hebrew, they spoke Greek. And it was also attached to the letters of Paul and circulated among Greek-speaking people who were converting to Christianity, which is, ironically, the Jews were not the converse. They're just coming to a deeper understanding of their own religion. The Gentiles are the converse. So you have words for the King James only churches out there.

Yes. Well, yeah. So yeah. So what is this, this, this like mind or this, this light bulb for you. Then what is, what is that, does that change? How does that change how you think about the creation story? Yes, that's it. I'm going to talk about that. Let's go. All right. Just one more anecdote before I launch into that. So, so I made the documentary, came on 2006 and I was very, concerned because I was the only person saying this and I was concerned because I felt the weight of misleading the people of God, you know? But then next to my, where I lived and worked, the store opened up that sold magazines and I went in to have a look and then there was biblical archaeology and that month it was Satan's throne and this was the verse that God had really used to open things up originally. was it started when I went into a Bible study and the teacher said,

I know where the throne of Satan is? And I said, where is it? And he said, it's in Pergamum. Because that's where Jesus says in Revelation 2 to the letter to Pergamum, that the throne of Satan is here. Kayak gets my flight, hotel, and rental car right. So I can tune out travel advice that's just plain wrong. Bro, Skycoin, way better than points.

Never fly during a Scorpio full moon. Just tell the manager you'll sue. Instant room upgrade. Stop taking bad travel advice. Start comparing hundreds of sites with kayak and get your trip right. Kayak, got that right. And so the question was, why is Jesus making a connection between the altar of Zeus, since that was the biggest archaeological, religious pagan find of that city,

and the most important altar of Zeus in the entire Greco-Roman world, where the emperors of Rome were sacrificing at it 24-7, Why would Jesus make a connection between Zeus, the leader of the pantheon of the gods and Satan? Why would he make that connection unless it's supposing that there's a connection between the gods and Satan? And so the fact that this article talks about Satan's throne, which came out the same month I released the documentary, I grabbed it and I read it and it was actually about the gods. And it was about, you know, the altar of Zeus. But here's a passage. It says that when the most high gave each nation's heritage declared to Tramie 32 verse 8, when he divided all mankind, he laid down the boundaries for people according to the sons of Israel. A Dead Sea scroll

fragment containing this verse above, however, has the phrase sons of God, instead of sons of Israel. The Dead Sea Scroll fragment apparently retains a more original form of the text. The Septuagent also has sons of God. The early church father Justin Martyr, who apparently used the text that preserved sons of God, believed that these sons of God were angels to whom God had entrusted the care of human beings. So the point is that I learned that not only the Septuagint,

but the Dead Sea Scroll, the oldest Hebrew copies, also had sons of God. And this was in 2006. That's when this magazine came out. And so... The relic now. You've got, you still got it. I got it because it was a very comforting thing for me.

It kind of took my fears away. It was like not only... That's kind of crazy that it was in print at that time. Yes, that a sign came out that this sign not only had the altar of Zeus on it and called it the throne of Satan, which was the verse that God had used to kind of connect the two to start with for us, but also the fact that it mentioned the relationship between Deutroni 32 verse 8 and 9 and the Dead Sea Scream. scrolls and the Septuagint and brought the Hebrew that see scrolls to my awareness.

And so now I knew that I could release the documentary, you know, it had just been released, but I could do it with, you know, with ease of conscience that I had discovered something, you know, that was very important to the narrative of the Bible and to the history of humanity, but unknown virtually by most of the modern church. And flash, this might be a dumb question, flashback 2,000 years, everyone, understood this about the gods. This wasn't a controversial. The Romans and the Greeks worshipped them very faithfully,

and the Jews understood that, and they understood that their text was commenting on it. I mean, that's why Jesus took everybody to Caesarea Philippi, where the altar of the gods were in the Holy Land. The rock. The rock. Yeah. And so that passage, you know, made a lot of sense

and then in 2012 when I went to Israel they took us there and now it made a lot of sense once I stood there and I saw it then I knew for sure that this was true and it has his own story but I'll have to tell it another time we'll never get to the Genesis story the the fact that this was forgotten I think was a doing of the enemy to hide in plain sight erase all existence of Satan

and his influence as much as possible. Reduce him to a boogeyman that comes to you at night to scare you of something here and there. But the idea that actually the world is ruled by the devil and that we are the children of those who were made in the image of God and we are in the cosmic tale of galactic proportions and that we should understand our entire history and all the nations of the earth and the movement of human history forward from the point of view of the Bible is all of this is being hidden from us and our faith is being reduced to a personal experience of salvation while all around

us the machinery of this other kingdom fights the Holy Spirit that has been released because we also have the spirit of the Antichristus that's been released according to one of John's letters and the battle between these two spirits forms a DNA of 2,000 years of history. Okay so as like average thinker and listener yes you're like a biblical archaeologist pulling out words from the Bible that other people have missed or misinterpreted or changed. I pray to the Lord. I said, you know, give me an understanding of a biblical basis for a civilizational lie. And that's what led to all of this to open up. But some people will dig up like, there's an answer to a prayer. A piece of pottery or they'll find a Dead Sea Scroll. But these

words are in scripture. We've changed them or we've glanced over them or we've read over them we keep going and if you go back to genesis with sort of this god's lens and understanding what the gods are then you read it you've you've discovered right so so now there's documentaries that all this that just totally happened and then i used to run a weekly bible study for anyone it was more of a seeker's study on saturdays and everyone had gone to get their lunch and come up and i was sitting with the bible in my hand yeah uh and I opened it up to Genesis. As one does. Start at the beginning.

It started the beginning. And it was a new copy of the Bible that had got. It was a Zandrvan publishing Bible. And it had the Hebrew Strong's codes on specific words, unimportant words throughout it, lots of it. It was like looking at the matrix now. Now anything that had to do with God, I had memorized all the numbers in my head

because I'd just done this use research. So I'm reading the story of the creation, and I notice that every time the word God appears, it's 430, which is Elohim. And I'm reading it, I'm like, okay, that's interesting. Oh, well, Elohim, okay, so, and then I get to chapter 2, verse 7, and then I see, you know, 3086, which is Yahweh. And it says, now I can read it.

Like it says, Lord God in English, but I'm now has the codes in my head, and it says, Yahweh Elohim. I'm like, wait, now I know that that actually is the name of the leader of the Elohim. It's not the same. It's not this equivalency where Yahweh equals God. Every time you see, you know, Elohim in the text, it's God. Every time you see Yahweh, it's God. It's just two words for the same thing.

It's not completely true. The word Elohim does mean God, but it also refers to all these other authority figures. Why? because this is where I think the rabbis have a point to make. And I ask a rabbi, say, why is it plural and singular at the same time? And the idea is that that name Elohim represents the characteristic of God as an authority figure. He is the authority over all of the layers of authority that exists in the world, in the universe, in the creation. And that's what Paul, I think, is drawing from Colossians 116 when he talks about that he's the author of all the powers and principalities.

And these authority systems exist even in family units. And so they exist over kingdoms on the earth and in governments and over angels who are placed over nations and God is over them. and so it's plural because all of the authorities are found in this one authority figure, God. So Elohim is the term that deals with the idea of authority figures. And so that's why that term is used for the gods over the nations, because they are the authority figures, the spiritual authorities over these nations. They're given to them. And so this idea,

So I'm reading this text, and I'm like, okay, wait a second. The plural, you know, let us make man in our image. Oh, man has become like one of us after, you know, we eat from the tree. This plural, this church tradition maintains automatically that the plural is the Trinity. Because it reads the Trinity back into the word LOD. Father, son, and Holy Spirit, right? See here, that this is the Trinity creating. This is the Trinity.

Now the concept of the Trinity exists in the Old Testament, it's Echad. It's a multiplicity of things that forms a unity. Like when Adam and Eve become one flesh and one bone, it's Echad. So the Lord God, you know, here, O Israel, the Lord your God is Echad. He's this multiplicity that forms a unity. And we see the spirit of God over the waters of Tehom, like in the beginning. of the creation story, we see God coming and walk in the cool of the day or eating with Abraham in the plains of Mambr or walking the Garden of Eden, the angel of the Lord. And we know the father

lives outside of time and space. This is a Bose moment. Your 10 boring blocks from home until the beat drops in Bose clarity. And the baseline transforms boring into maybe the best part your day. Your life deserves music. Your music deserves Bose. Find your perfect product at bows.com. And, you know, some people will say Psalm 2 is a trialogue. If you read Psalm 2, you will see the Father, the Spirit, and the Son speaking in Psalm 2. And sometimes when your eye gets trained as you read the different parts of the Old Testament, you actually go out. That's actually the Lord speaking, or that's the Father speaking. This concept of the unity of God, Echad, existed.

But then there was a heresy in the church that some bishop was saying that Jesus was a man and not divine, and that heresy was taking a lot of followers. And so the church convened a council and they said, let's make this a matter of doctrine. And so they created this doctrine of the Trinity. And then we read the Old Testament

or plurality of Elohim back into the Old Testament through the eyes of that new created doctrine as a moment of defense against a heresy. While we don't take in consideration the thousands of verses and the context, the biblical context, you know, they say a text without a context as a pretext. There is a biblical context for that term. When you look at Job 32, verse 8 and 9, I think, no, sorry, Job versus, that's the Deutronomy.

When you look at Job 38, it talks about the sons of God, where God comes at the end of Job's trials and tribulations, and it's essentially impressing on him how wise He God is, that evil will not overexceed its boundaries. You know, like the waters of the oceans, they don't over exceed the land. That is a sign of God's wisdom. That the same applies to evil. That evil will not overrun God's creation. And there are boundaries put, and there's wisdom and deep architecture. So what Job is experiencing here is something that, you know, is under God's control. And then God says to him, as the morning stars sang together and the same,

Sons of God shouted for joy. So the morning stars is an idiom for angels in the Bible, and the sons of God is the term given to these beings that are a category of the Elohim. And they were here with God at the creation of the earth. That's what God is telling Job. You know, where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth as the morning stars sang together and the sons of God shouted for joy.

When I laid the foundations of the earth, the architecture of the planet in the universe, and I think the enuma elish of the Mesopotamians may actually be talking about that. And so the plurality for me was like, wait a second, it's interesting, could this, could it be that this is not the Trinity, that God was not alone like it says, the book of Job. Even when the law was given at Sinai, David writes in the book of Psalms that there was the Rechev Elohim, the chariots of God, and they were myrids. God was not alone at

Sinai. It says they were there with him at Sinai. There was a multitude of them led by the angel of the Lord. So this idea that God's collective presence, you know, his court, so to speak. So, so I thought a second, what if the plurality here let us make man in our image and the word for man as Adam? And Adam is the name of a race in Hebrew. It just means man and person. Like when we moved from Iran to France, I would find it funny that French people called Adam, which means, which was a name of a person, Adam. So because in Iran, Adam just means person or man. So it was funny for it does a little trick on your brain until they get used to it that this person, their name actually, you know, it means.

Imagine if you called yourself human. I'd say, hey, what's your name? You'd say, I'm human. That's how it sounds. Okay. To the mind of people in whose language. It's kind of like when they tried to sell Chevy Nova's in Mexico. And Nova means no go.

Right. So they're like, why would I buy a car that's called no go? Exactly, right? So we think of Adam as a guy, but the Bible thinks of him as a race. Okay. Right? It just means man. So anywhere Ben Adam, the son of man, you know, Jesus is Ben Adam.

anywhere in the entire Hebrew Bible, you hear the word Adam. It just means man. It doesn't refer to the one guy in the garden, right? But we tend to think about it that way culturally. So I was reading it, and I realized that the word Elohim appears in the text at first, and let me first divide it for you.

And then the name God appears suddenly in the context of the creation of the one who is in the garden. And so I'm reading this, and I'm thinking, wait a second, on day six it says Then Elohim said Let the earth produce every sort of animal Each producing offspring of the same kind Livestock small animals

That scurry along the ground, wild animals And what has happened Elohim made all sorts of wild animals Livestock and small animals Each able to produce offspring of the same kind And God saw that it was good And God said Let us make

human beings or a man in image. This is a funny translation, the new living translation. So basically the idea here is that Elohim says listed with the continental life, but not just with the continental

life, with the life that in the Hebrew, it is categorized as having nefesh, which is translated as soul, self. These are the translations, life. The three translations of nefesh, life, soul, or self. Like later on we'll read in the Livida cus that God says, the nefesh is in the blood, the soul, life is in the blood. I've given it to make atonement for your nefesh.

Nefesh for nefesh. I've given the life that's in the blood to make atonement for your soul. The word is the same. Life and soul are the same. In Hebrew, that's why it matches. The nefesh is in the blood of the animal. I've given it to make atonement for your nefesh. And so here we have the category of beings.

that is the nefesh-bearing beings that are created on day sixth, and man is made in it, put among them, and let us make human beings. So it's plural. And the church goes, well, that's the Trinity, you know? And now I'm reading this going, no, wait, I know the word Elohim, that's 430, that now I have a whole context, I have a thousand verses,

you know, in the back of my head swimming around, thinking, oh, wait a second. And so this is actually talking about a plural. The book of Job says that God was not alone here. Okay, so that's interesting. And then they will rain over the fish of the sea. Okay, the bird in the sky, livestock, and all the wild animals on the earth

and the salmon animals are scurry on the ground. So God created human beings in the image of Elohim. So Elohim created them in the image of Elohim created them. It says that. And so I'm like, wait, God created an image of a plurality. God is the creator, but he's creating the image of plurality. Yeah, I've heard of this said, like, this is like Divine Counsel Language, Ali, and like, it's like, what was the analogy? I don't know it was Heiser or Doug, we talked about.

And they said, it's kind of like, like, let's order a pizza. Right. All of us, but I'm going to pay for the pizza and I'm ordering it, but let's do it together. Well said. Yeah. So God was going to involve these beings on the saga of humanity on Earth. Well, let's do this together, but I'm, you know, I'm the founder of the feast. Yeah.

I'll let you guys hang and be a part of it. Yeah. But our image means we have some similarities. Obviously, we're like the group. Yeah. I mean, look at the group that's creating us. We're like them. The angels that come to warn lot in Sodom.

The people of Sodom want to have sex with them. The angel that rolls the tomb of Christ and sits on it. The church, and I hear people even that, you know, participate in. in talks that I give, like our colleagues, they say this too, that angels take human form, like the three angels came to visit, you know, Abraham. It's very common. It's a poof theory, right? They take a form. They take a form. And you think, okay, well, that's outside of the text. You're just making that up for me. It isn't saying the text that they do, but you're making an assumption about angels.

What if they have that form because they look like us, because we are made in their image? Right. So, but let me put it together because unless we have the entire context, what I'm about to say won't make sense. Yeah. So then Elohim blessed them, be fruitful and multiply, fill the earth and govern it, rain over the fish in the sea, the birds in the sky, and all the animals that scurry around the ground. And so they were kind of like told to roam the earth, to govern the entire planet, to fill the earth and govern it. right? It says right here, fill the earth and govern it. Rain over it. The fish, the birds, everything. Go for it. The wild. Then Elohim said, look, I have given you every seed-bearing plant

throughout the earth and all the fruit trees for your food. And I have given every green plant as food for all the wild animals in the birds in the sky and the small animals that scurry along, the ground, everything that has nefesh. that's how the chapter ends. This was the creation, day six, of the nefesh-bearing beings. That's why the animals later, we're told have nefesh, and their soul is given as an offering on the altar. So they're told to go and roam the earth,

and there's all of this wild vegetation and fruit-bearing stuff that just, you know, there's no mention of agriculture. They're to grab it and eat it. And this is the sixth day. And so the creation of the heavens and the earth and everything was completed on the seventh day had finished his work of creation.

He rested from all his work, and Elohim blessed the seven day and declared it holy because it was the day when he rested from all his creation. So this was the creation of Adam. And this is the account of the creation of the heavens and the earth. When the Lord God made the earth and the heavens, neither wild plants nor grains were growing on the earth,

for the Lord God had not yet sent rain. to water the earth and there were no people to cultivate the soil. So suddenly we even though on day four we were told vegetation was created, even though these guys are told to go out and enjoy all the vegetation and they're created in day six and day seven is the Sabbath, suddenly in the story that follows the seventh day, we are told that there was no rain, there was no vegetation, yet we were just told there was. But then something news introduced into the text that we hadn't had until here, and that's agriculture. There was the earth, and there was no people to cultivate the soil, even though we were just told on the six people were created.

Instead, springs came up from the ground and watered all the land. Then, now here, the name of is very important in the Bible. In verse 7 of chapter 2, for the first time, in the entire text, we make a shift from Elohim to Yahweh Elohim. Now I had the, you know, Strong's code in my head, and I was like, wait a second, this is where the name of God appears

that God gives Moses, the very name that later the Bible identifies as the leader of the gods. The El ha Elohim, like Deuteron 10-17 says in many other places, the adonha adonim. the god of gods, the Lord of Lords.

Now he appears. Then Yahweh Elohim formed the man from the dust of the ground. I was like, okay. So the first ones, man, let's make man an arimage. And it's plural, Elohim, plural, the grammar is plural. And then suddenly here we have singular. The leader of the Elohim is making man and in his image

then what happens to this man well he breathed the breath of life that's a new thing I didn't have that until now neshima it's a new word the breath of life neshima into his nostrils and the man becomes a living soul not just a nefesh but a chai nefesh

is it just another word for nefesh for soul or the fact of the word living is attached to it means something. It's a different type of soul. I don't know. Then the Lord God planted a garden in Eden. Oh, wait a second.

I thought man was supposed to go and fill the whole earth and roam and have dominion or everything and take it all and eat all the vegetation and the fish and stuff. But no, this guy is told to stay put in an enclosure. He's actually forbidden to leave it. The day that he leaves is because he's cast out,

he's exiled into the great wilderness, like later Israel will be exiled into the wilderness. The exile, we are all studying in the school of exile, where we are formed in the school of exile before we can reenter the place of the holy. So then he's planted, the Lord God plants garden Eden in the east. There he placed the man he had made. So now we're all talking singular now suddenly.

And it's thought, the Yahweh Elohim forms the man. Elohim plants the garden. And the fact that we shift from Elohim to Yao Elohim before was just like another word for God, until now for me. Oh, God created this and the Lord God created this. It was just maybe a polite way of saying God or something. You had the word Lord in front of it. It didn't mean anything to me. But now it all meant a lot to me. These were specific terms that taken in the context of the entire Old Testament found a more precise meaning. And that was Yahweh was the leader of these beings. So then the Lord God made all sorts of trees to grow up from the ground. Trees that were beautiful that produced delicious fruit in the middle of the garden.

He placed a tree of life. So wait a second. So there's new vegetation introduced. The vegetation that can be cultivated. And I'll show you later a passage in Genesis chapter 9, verse 3, after the flood. That God not only seeds the earth with life, but seeds the life with knowledge. the Bible and also the codes of civilization coming from the other beings into the various civilizations and also all kinds of technical knowledge of how to build temples and fallen angel knowledge

like such as the one that leads to creation the prediluvian civilization and even afterwards this transfer of knowledge continues even the modern religions Hinduism Islam the masons and all their stuff where is this all coming from and the Bible speaking but also God gives humanity the stuff that humans need to live, the kind of vegetation you can actually cultivate. The kind of animals you can domesticate as opposed to the wild. I mean, try domesticating a lion, you know, or a tiger.

So let me get the straight. So I think the light turned on for me. So you're saying that like in this second creation story, God gives his codes of civilization to Adam. Yes. And what we have outside, because we've done a code of civilization. the codes of Amarabi and all these things with you before.

Well, that's after the flood. Sure, sure, but like there's this something else going on outside. Exactly. There is this idea that, so just in, so the codes of civilization after the Tower of Babel, there's a division between the nations and Israel, and they receive their codes and God receives this code. But in this case, I'm going to slowly be building the argument as I go through the text right now that we are dealing with two creation stories like you're saying, Luke, and there's people

outside the garden, what happens is the rabbis decided that the second account was just a deeper analysis of an aspect of the first account. So God went into the day sixth story and then zoomed out and created and told us something more detail about it in the next chapter. And that idea is adopted by the Christian Church as the way of reading this. But what I see in the telescope the communication lens of the Bible is that God

speaks through his Bible in a system of patterns. This is the story of the creation of one race, the atoms, the atomites. It's all the atomites. But within this lens, there is overlaps and there are distinctions. When God speaks the overlaps and distinctions often together as a very compact communication system that gives us a huge information about a creation story, but then points out specific things about it.

Like when, I don't know, God says to Hosea that out of Egypt I call my son. And when you read that in Hosea, it's clearly about Israel. It says that. But then Matthew applies that to Jesus. Why? Because God says that he'll bless the families of the earth in the same. seed of Abraham and yet the seed sometimes is plural, sometimes it's singular. Sometimes it refers to the covenanted people who will write the Bible for us and live the story of the Bible, including the

events that are leading to the second coming. There'll be a blessing in that sense, but out of them will come one seed in particular who will also be a great blessing to everybody and that's the Messiah. So you can read it messianically, you can read it covenantally. It's about Israel and it's about the Messiah. The seed is plural and singular. Sometimes it's singular. Sometimes it's plural. And Paul will focus on the singular because everybody around him already read it as Israel is the blessing but now Paul is saying no but there's also

within Israel and so Matthew is reading Hosea the same way he's looking at the pattern of Abraham's life he goes to Egypt, he comes back more blessed Israel goes through slavery comes back as a nation the Messiah will go to Egypt as a child and come

back as a savior the patterns that govern Abraham Israel and Messiah are interchangeable. And so Matthew has no problem taking a verse about Israel and applying it to the Messiah because he's reading it in the pattern way of reading the Bible, that God is speaking in patterns and in a dense way

where many things are clicked together that follow the same pattern, yet God points out distinctions in the midst of it to point out unique features about statements he wants to make about characters. The distinctions are one. the name of God is introduced for the first time. It's not plural.

Why do you think that? Why is that different than what we see in the first chapter? So I think that God creates Adam in the image of the angels that are with him. He is the creator, not them. Then he creates one in his own image. That's what I'm reading here, literally. And then he puts the one that he created in his own image in the garden while the rest are roaming the earth. and there's a lot of fossil record that shows that.

This also makes sense in the context of when we, I'm jumping ahead, but when Kane gets his mark and it's sent out. Yes. Like, who's he afraid of is going to kill him? Exactly. And we're the cities.

And so it's always been a problem. People, it's always explained away as just a time event, right? Right. So we just don't know the time because we're getting the highlights, which is an explanation. But yeah, like to your point,

like the fossil record. And that's some conversation we had with you, Ross was interesting about that too, was like, what do we to do with all the old fossils and the records that we have scientifically with the biblical account. Because a lot of creations will say it's 6,000 years old.

And they've found a way to make that work for them. I don't think this is something worth a hill worth dying on, but also he would say that everything that we see in the record actually backs up the creation story. It's just more time than we believe. Can you talk a little bit more about the outside of the garden, like how you see that? Well, you look at, for instance, you know,

the birth of civilization. I mean, the birth of agriculture, that's a new thing. Like, there is no agriculture for the longest time, but then agriculture appears. And one thing that those who study the genetics of botanics, they have a hard time explaining how is it that the wild variety of wheat and barley went from the wild variety to the domesticated variety with twice a year harvest in such a quick time? because it's hugely different genetically. And the theory of evolution can't explain the transformation in the time span.

It would have taken much, much, much, much longer if it was going to happen, you know, through evolution. And why is it that suddenly agriculture appears in this one area called the Fertile Crescent. It goes from the south of Iraq through the Levant to the Mediterranean. And domesticated animals appear as well. And why is it that these are the jobs of Cain and Abel, right? One is a farmer. The other deals with domesticated animals. Yeah, that's why one has to go to the other and give the vegetation and get blood

sacrifice, but it doesn't do that. That's why sacrifice is not accepted, right? That's why Cain's sacrifice is not accepted. Why is it that these guys, all this appears in the Middle East, domesticated animals. That's where they come from. and they're only several thousand years old. Well, I think about, with your point, I think about Gebeckli-Tepi.

So that, I think, goes back to maybe before, you know, like this guy leaves the temple, leaves the garden. Right. And so those, that is there, and religion predates farming, because the connection with the gods and the world of angels was always

the beginning of transmission of worship and knowledge. We were always, always part of a larger story from the beginning. We knew that, especially our connection was much deeper before the flood. They're part of our world in a much more intimate way. And we were living hundreds of years. And so what happens is that farming appears, and it's dated to about 10,000 years before the time of the Lord. Then you have domesticated animals.

All of them appear around that period in the Middle East. Now, whether the dates are right or wrong, I don't know. I'm not a scientist. You know, that somebody said I'm not a biologist. I'm not a scientist. I don't know whether how to date these things properly. It doesn't matter to me that much. But I do, I can see that farming suddenly makes an appearance on the stage of history

because the stuff you can farm appears. And domesticated with animals appear all there, like 9,000 years for Christ. And you're saying the creation story, there's farming language. Yeah, there's God is giving. It's God is giving. God planted a garden in Eden and he placed the man he had made the Lord God made all sorts of trees grow up from the ground. And his job is to garden, to farm because it says right here, there was no man to till or toil the ground or cultivate in soil in this translation. So the Bible brings our attention to farming.

Then new vegetation is introduced and that's what the fossil record shows, that the vegetation you can farm and the animals. you can domesticate appear like some 9,000 years before Christ in the Middle East. They all appear. They're not the woolly mammoth. Right? And so suddenly this guy comes with the whole lifestyle, the way that later the gods will give the codes of civilization and urbanization will begin. That's later urbanization.

What's urbanization? Urbanization is when the society of Mesopotamia reorganizes from being clan-based, like families, to being based around these people. priest kings. They were called Shippar Shepherds. That's where the Lord says that he is the good shepherd because they were the shepherds of the gods. For the gods, they were shepherding men. That's why they were called shepherds. And the Lord is actually taking that title, that he is the shepherd of God that's going to shepherd humanity. And these priest kings are also called Lugal, Great Man, N.C. Some translate them as righteous ruler. That's why

when Abraham, who comes from Uro of the Caldez, a town that's ruled by one of these representatives of the gods, these priest kings, he's brought to Melchazadec, and God says, well, he's my priest king. Because Abraham has a cultural context of understanding rulership through the priest kings. And so urbanization is a reorganization of human society. That's what the Pharaoh was as well, a representative of the gods in royal clothing. once humanity says we're not going to adhere to a clan-based system like Jacob is the head of the family and there he has 12 kids we're not going to do it that way like the clans of Scotland or whatever we're going to do it according to these priest kings and they're going to be the representative of the gods and then the gods give the architecture to build temples and that's where we see ziggurats appear in mesopotamia and lots of writings that tell us that tell us that us about the transmission of the architecture to build these things, the way that we see Moses and Solomon receive architecture from God of how to build a temple.

So that is called urbanization. That's what anthropologists call urbanization, is the reorganizing of society from clan-based to being centered around these priest kings. So agriculture or urbanization, these are most. that happened because of interference. If you look at like Genesis chapter 9, then God bless Noah and his sons and told them be fruitful and multiply. By the way, celibacy is not really a biblical thing, it seems,

because that was the first commandment. You know, even for in the beginning, go and fill the earth. Be fruitful and multiply, fill the earth. A key one there, Ollie. Yeah. All the animals of the earth, all the birds of the sky, all the small animals that scurry along the ground and all the

fish in the sea will look on you with fear and terror. I have placed them in your power. I have given them to you for food just as I have given you grain and vegetables. So God is the giver of the grain and vegetables so you can cultivate the way that is. So God, the creation of of the one that's in the garden doesn't just come with the creation of men. It comes with the creation that the farming man is going to bring into the world. So when they leave, with them comes an entire lifestyle that appears, you know, on the stage of history. So when they get ejected from the garden, after they sin, yes. And all of a sudden, outside this garden you have... Agriculture and husbandry appears. It actually makes a ton of sense.

It's wild. You think about like if the historical archaeological record says it just appeared. Yes. And we can say, well, here's two creation stories. Yes. And once Adam and Eve, he created an image of the angels and was enjoying all the stuff that God gives them. What do you think the pre-Adamites, what are they? Are they the Nandothos?

They're all called Adam in the Bible. Remember, you remember this is the truth. You have to say the overcomes. In our mind, we just think of Adam as a guy, but in the Hebrew, Adam means man. It's a category of creation. And I'm just saying that this category of creation is this is the whole story. First, God creates as Elohim in the image of the angels. That's why it's plural.

And they go and they fill the earth. They roam. Maybe it's an experiment. Maybe God is perfecting things. I don't know. Then God, it says there was no agriculture. And then God, then the name of God appears in the text, which one, which name? The one that's the leader of the Elohim, we are told, the L of the Elohim.

Yahweh is the El of the Elohim, the Adonad. And then he creates the one that he puts in the garden. Doesn't say Rome the earth? Gardener. And then he creates for him the vegetation and animals that are going to come with this domesticated life, not the wildlife. So you have the wilderness outside

and the wild man that lives with it. And then you have now the domesticated. And then later, with the knowledge that comes from the fallen angels and the priest kings, we have the birth of cities and other transformation. So I'm saying the earth is seated with life, and then that life is seated with all kinds of features as it goes along.

It's seated with knowledge of all kinds, technology, science, architecture, the laws of the gods, religion, truth, wisdom, where it all came from, where we're going, and it's also seated with the kind of grains you need to farm and the kind of animals you can domesticate. That's what the text says to me, literally. These accounts for like what we see in the record, like the Neanderthals, for example.

Right. And the way that, you know, a lot of that too is hard for me because it's like here's a jawbone and they're reconstructing an entire skeleton, right? But you have these more ancient iterations of humanity. Right. And outside of all the evolution garbage, you have these older people. Right. And they're all called Adam and they're like Goli-Tepa and other things that we see, they're quite advanced. It's not like we're not, we were never, we were never barbarians that evolved because later on Gordon Child who was a Marxist and he took all of the. writings from the library of Mesopotamian

was an archaeologist and they were surprised these Mesopotamian archaeologists that they had uncovered so much from these libraries that agreed with the Genesis account. So Gordon Child says forget about all of it. That's all

myth. What happened was the Neolithic Revolution and they're like, what's that? He says, well, caveman one day had a moment of genius, a coup de genie and he came up with farming, a bunch of them. They just came up with farming.

And now they didn't have to run after their food. They could sit around the bonfire and talk. And that's how they came up with mathematics and architecture and religion and history and all this stuff. But they made beer and bread and everything else. Yeah. And so that's how civilization was born. And that is taught in all the universities

of the Western world as the birth of civilization. Just this idea of this one guy, Gordon Child, who was in his 20s and Marxist and a student of Stalin, who put away all of the empirical record of all of these tablets found in the libraries of Mesopotamia where the people that were closer to these events told us how their own civilization was born

and they agreed with the biblical record of the interference of these beings over the nations he put all that aside, all that empirical evidence, created his own story of how he imagined it all happened and that is taught us science in all of our universities. Wow.

Yeah, because we're in a spiritual battle. And then you need Ali. Yeah. come along and re-read all that. It's like a butterfly. So there's two timelines going on. There is. There's the wild man's timeline.

Yes. And then there is... Maybe Bigfoot's running around. I don't know if I'm going to call him the wild man. Because they're made in the image of angels. And then this guy's made in the image of the leader of the angels. So there's like... I mean, it's very controversial.

There's an upgrade. This is controversial, but I would go back to Hebrews 13 and say that, you know, don't forget to entertain strangers. by doing some of unwittingly entertained angels. Exactly. So to your point, they look like that. Most people can't differentiate.

Although the big Fabio's that walked into Sodom, they were a big deal. Well, how long do you think this is going on? Well, the word yum, which is translated as day, you have to do a study of the word yum throughout the text of the Bible. Even right here, right here, after the days of creation,

all six days, are done, it says right in the text that this is the day that the Lord made, you know, the heavens and the earth. So the word day, the word yom, even right here, is used to mean all seven days.

So just to show you that, so if you can mean the day of Abraham, it could mean the entire life of Abraham. Yeah, this is what Hugh Ross had talked about, right? This idea of yam was like, it's used for a 24-hour day, but it's also used for a period of time or an age. It's in precise in the sense,

or it's used as a multiplicity of meanings within the way it's used. And I don't see, people have these arguments about the young or the, I don't understand what the argument is about because the creation story doesn't change when you attribute it to God or you don't. That's what the argument really is about, right? Right.

And also the nature of time is subjective because we're told that a thousand years to the Lord is but a day, which means that in the heavens, they use another form of celestial mechanics to measure time, where 1,000 rotations of the Earth around the sun will equal one galactic day

in the way they measure time, using another celestial mechanics. So the question becomes to me, when you say it's young or old, I ask you what celestial mechanic are you using to measure time? because, you know, it could be, are you using the rotation of the Earth around the sun?

Are you using this larger galactic scale? You know, the Sumerians used the, what do you call it, the rotation of the zodiac. Well, could, procession of time? Well, here's the question, Ali. Could time and be, could time and Eden be slower than time outside of Eden? No. So what is time?

That's a different story for not day. But you have, but you have some. something different happening in Eden? Yes. Then outside of Eden. I think that's what the text taken literally, and the fact that the rest of the story is linear, there's no other hiccups. Then we have the fall, we have the exile, we have Satan, then we have the story of the various generations of Adam's family, then we have the story of the Nephilim, we have that civilization. We have Enoch, then we have the flood, then we have Noah, then we have the birth of civilization in the lands of Shinar. Then we have Abraham, then we have Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Then we

have the story of Egypt, then we have the story of Israel as a nation, then we have the arrival of the Messiah. There is no hiccups. It's all linear. Why is it that this one story as a hiccup? Do you have to read the Bible now? Always got it all, we did it in there 16 seconds. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I'm a visual person. I'm trying to understand this. Is this Eden event, like the, like Jesus is going to come out of the Eden? Seth, the line of Seth. And outside of Eden could be like humans. The nefesh-bearing humans made in the image of the Elohim, of the multitude.

But by God, but then here... But we can procreate with them. We can hang out with them, but we're the same as them. We're called the sons of God. They're called the sons of God. But there's something about the humans in Eden that's different. That's sort of special. They are the image bearer of the God of Gods.

Right? Those are the image bearer of the angels. because we can procreate with them. They're called the Sons of God, so are we. Maybe if God enters the physical universe and takes his shape as the angel of the Lord, if he has a body, he has genes, maybe he made them in his own image

and then he made us. And their differences, the unique markers, we are very unique. Adam is very unique as the image bearer of the God of gods. But all of these angels, their image bearers, the fact that even the fallen angel,

the sons of God can have relations with us or create hybrids with us. All of this shows that at the very highest level of the created order, there's a lot of family connection stemming from God himself. So don't try to nail this because we're not going to be able to nail it.

We're just exploring an idea about something happened a long time ago by thinking by the text. Why do you think this is a controversial idea? It's only controversial because in the tradition of the church, I noticed, you see, you know, for instance, this whole thing about the gods? Yeah. So I was forbidden to explain this. Once in a while, if I was invited to a church to speak and the pastor was gone, that's why it invited me. I would kind of get this through and people loved it. You're like, you're the bosses away. So we're going to talk about two creations. You ready for this? No, not the sort of creation, the story of the hundreds of verses about the Elohim.

The moment I would say the word Elohim doesn't mean Trinity. It means these other beings, the gods over the nations, and they were not idols. Usually the conversation wouldn't go past that moment. I remember once this elder in a church wanted to know about it, and I brought all my books and everything. Sat it down. I thought we're going to have a great conversation. I said, so the word Elohim sometimes refers to God, but also the gods of the nations. And he said to me, I can't accept that.

And I was like, no, no, but let me show it to. You don't have to accept it. It's right in the text. I'm going to show it to you. and he said, no, I'm not interested. That was the end of the conversation. Once I was running a Bible study in a church about the book of Revelation, and something in that passage harkened back to this understanding of Elohim.

And I mentioned it, and then someone complained to the pastor, and then the pastor called me in his office like I was being called into a principal's office and told me that I should stop saying those things, and that if I had actually gone to seminary, I would understand how silly it is. and so when Heiser wrote his book and someone said oh there's this guy he's talking about these things and I ordered it and I started reading it

first of all in the beginning of the book he said that these are all the passages that are not a taught in seminary and like the Coz of Matrix as I was reading the Bible the verses even there was many passages I knew all those passages virtually by heart that's the world I lived in and then when he explained the whole idea

of the Elohim and also and I realized He sat the same inside as I have. And so at that point, as I was reading it, tears started to come down my eyes. And I was sitting on the couch and then I said, I caught myself and I said, why am I crying? And I realized that, you know, I had been persecuted by the leadership and that that persecution was over because he had the pedigree that the institutional leadership could take seriously. He had the right PhD, the right, you know, it wasn't about. but reasoning from like a Berean led by the Holy Spirit through prayer and meditation and study.

And, you know, I have both undergraduate and graduate degrees. You know, I speak seven languages. I'm a scholar in my own rank. I know how to study text. Right. I don't care. But the point was that I thought he had the right pedigree in the way that the church understood.

So once I experienced that for years of persecution, really until he made it more mainstream. And that's when I really was able to speak about it. Like, for instance, one of the big shows, I mean, coast to coast A.M. is a huge show. I've been on there seven times. But one of the radio show hosts with whom I had a great relationship for many years, he always refused to interview me when it came to the concept of the Elohim.

He said, you're the only one who's saying this. Nephalim, you know, there's other people that are talking about it. I feel comfortable. Even alien abductions. But even the persecution that comes with that topic is still pretty... It's still going, right? Yeah. So then I thought with that in mind, even though in 2006 I saw this, I'm like, I'm never sharing

this with anybody. Yeah. Because can you imagine with how controversial this is going to be? Well, here, let's reverse engineer this, right? Let's think about this. I think about it from a bigger perspective, because I can't go as microscopic as you are. Why? It makes sense because the gods do still keep.

care about the nations. Why would they care about the nations and being in certain territories and principalities if they have nothing to do with the people in the principalities in the territories, right? They have an emotional investment in that area, those people. Where did that emotional investment come from? Well, that's an interesting point. Now you're assuming that the ones that are in this story, let us make man in our image, are the same ones, part of them rebel. But we don't know, we don't know who rebels. So that's, that's, that's. That's, that's. That's a gap in the text. Maybe it's like Earth Babes.

Maybe they're just like, do these Earth Babes or where it's at. That's later. But what we're told. The Swedish Adamites are very blonde. Right. And we're going to, we're going to, we're going to, we're going to. That sounds like you're preferential for you. That sounds like your preference.

The red hair ones. Where do they come from? The Irish. The children of the fairies. They were the chosen ones. The Reds. It was all the redheads. It's debatable.

they're dying out. Sorry. You know, you go back to this idea that God tells Job, the sons of God were here. They cried for joy and the morning star and the morning stars. So the angels were present in the creation. Yeah. And they did have an attachment as you're saying.

That's what I'm saying. So it's like later on we see this echo of this attachment like, you know, mafia families, you know, after the generations. It's like, these are my people. Well, Satan wants to be worshipped as a first. order of the creation. He sees Adam's competition, I think, this is my theory, and he decides to take Adam out because he realizes if Adam is made in the image of the God of God's, then he is the one that's going to inherit the position that Satan wants for himself. So he's got to take

Adam out. This is just conjecture that I'm drawing from the text. And so then he can't kill Adam, because then he'll be accused of being a murderer. So he says, you know what, this guy is supposed to bring the laws of God to the creation, the Torah of Hashem to the Malakins, he's going to bring the creation, the laws of God to creation. That's what we're going to be doing when we're in the heavenly Jerusalem. As the image bearers of God, we're going

to be his royal priests and bring his instructions to creation. So Satan says fine, if you're so learned and you're supposed to be, and you're told not to eat from this, let's test you out. I'm just going to make a suggestion, since you're so almighty and you're supposed to be our teacher, I'm going to make a suggestion to you.

a suggestion that if you take will condemn you to death according to God's own laws. So he gets rid of his competition without carrying out the murder. He only makes a suggestion and God's own machinery of laws will take care of Satan's ambitions. But God sees through that and says, no, you're not fooling me. I know where you're coming from. So the judgment does come on Satan, but he's given a short time to live. Okay, so I'm trying to understand this. I think for most of us, we're stuck on this.

Well, we're not done yet. Let me finish it. Let me ask a question. Is the God of gods or is the two creation stories? Could that mirror the Shikina, the Holy of Holies? There's certain people that can go into the temple. And then there's the rest of us are outside of the temple. We can't go in there.

But this one guy can. Is there like Eden is this one pocket? this one person, this one group of people. Look, there's many, first of all, that's a good point you brought up. So let's talk about that. So there's a few things. One is there are many acts of creation in the Bible. Like, for instance, you are born from your mommy and daddy. One act

of creation. But then we're told that you will be born again. That's what Jesus is the Nicodemus. Of the Holy Spirit, you'll become a child. And then Peter says, if you eat from the word of God, it will nourish you and grow you. Second act of creation. Then we're told when Jesus returns at the rapture,

we get a new body, the twinkling of an eye. like the one he had when he came back from the dead, a glorified body. You know, those who are chosen are then justified, sanctified, and glorified. Okay, well, then at that point, that's a new creation. You know, why is it that the Lord Jesus,

his name in Greek adds up to 888? Why is it that the child that circumcised on the eighth day? Why is it because seven is this first cycle of completion, six days of creation, one day of rest. Seven in the Bible is a cycle of complete. completion. Eight is a new beginning. And here, after the seven day, we have the eighth day, the story of the one who was in the garden. So basically, later to your point, and then we go

in the heavenly in Jerusalem, that's another creation, like we're changed again. But to your point, all of the Jews are chosen people, right? But some are chosen to be the Levi's and to serve in the temple. Yeah. And that's what upsets Cora, the guy who gets swallowed by the earth. He says to Moses, we're Levies too. How come you guys get to be over us? Right? He doesn't accept that. Then within the Levi's the family of Moses, Aaron, his brother, is chosen to be the high priest, and it's a hereditary job. He's like, wait a second. If they're all chosen, but yet within them, there are functions, and these functions distinguish them. The Levi's getting to go to the temple, the high priest that has this function. And then you have the story of the New Testament,

where we're all one in Christ, like men, women, slave, and free and all that, and Greek and Hebrew and all that stuff. But yet we continue

to have distinctions of roles. The women have their own laws given to them in Christ. Men have their own laws given to them

in Christ. Slaves are still meant to be slaves, servants. Masters are to be good masters. So the creation can have a single

category, the atoms. But then within them, there can be distinctions. Well, somebody said on our show that there was within them

there was an atom created that Jesus could come out of, that there was always a redemption plan in the genetic code for a redeemer to come if it needed to come. Well, I mean, that's what we were learning in the book of Liddicus. And it could it come out of, would it come out of the God of God's creating this specific human being? Yeah. So then we were told that this garden has an address.

Not only is it not everywhere, but it's somewhere. We're given four rivers that go to it, and that's a very interesting thing to look into. The Lord God placed in the garden of Eden to tend to watch over it, so he's to cultivate it. And in Hebrew, that also means about obeying God's commandments. It's not just about agriculture. There's a spiritual level to it.

But the Lord God warned him, you may not, you free eat from everything, but then, now this is where it gets interesting, then he falls sleep and from his life, because the word rip can be rib, but also can mean life in Acadian. It's a long story. But the point is that out of him, maybe genes are taken,

the chromosome count has changed and a female copy is created for him. So that's another distinction between this story and the one before because before Elohim made them male and female and told them go and fill the whole earth multiply and eat from the wilderness. But then we have the story of agriculture.

We have the name of the one god, the god of gods. We have the concept of the neshima, the breath of life. We have a single location and there is no female. We don't know how long he was alone before a female version was created for him.

So these are distinctions between these two stories. And remember in Genesis 9-3, we have this idea that God gives the grain and the vegetables. So I think this guy, the story is this, that God creates in the image of angels, a multitude of human beings. And then Noah puts them in the ark, perhaps. Or some are helped by the fallen angels and survive the flood.

Some are told in the mountains of Peru and all the tall mountains down there to go and hide because there's a great flood and they go in the very top of the mountains. So after the flood, either some of these guys survive because their fallen angels help them. Or they are brought two by two in the ark. and that's where we have the different races from. That's why we have the Africans and the Chinese and the Caucasians. And everyone looks so... And the Iranians.

And the Iranians. So everyone looks so different. Because apparently the Ark of Noah, they say Mount Ararat is in Turkey, but others argue the men Arab was in Iran. So in that sense, everybody's Iranian. That's where it all started. That's where it started. So the point is that...

Complicated. That's the point. Yeah. You know, we don't want to... We don't want to hang our hat on these things and suddenly become dogmatic and say, this is the way it all went out. This is just the exploration. What do you want to grew up in the church and listened to the traditional creation story had more questions? Did the math in their head?

Things didn't make sense. And we needed to have someone like you come along and be like, well, there's probably more to this story. It is more complicated. You kind of have to get the director's cut extended edition. Look at all these tribes. The Kenites, the Horites, the catamites, the catamites, the. the Kenazite, the Parasites, the Gergishites, all these tribes that are not Nephilim.

Yeah, where they come from. And they don't appear in Genesis chapter 10 in the table of nations, where the line of Seth and Noah is introduced. Right? Where do these other tribes come from that are mentioned in the Bible, but not in the table of nations

that are the direct descendancy of Noah? Right? Noah has 70 sons in the table of nations, chapter 10, Genesis 10. But none of these are there. Jethro was a Kenite, you know, like he comes. and has a conversation with Moses.

Moses marries his daughter. Also Beverly Hillbilly. Right. That's neither here nor there. So where did the Bushmen that are in the Amazon and people discover them all the time? There's new tribes of Bushmen discovered all the time. They don't have the knowledge of the gods

that gives them the code of civilization. That's why they continue to live as hunter-gatherers, as we call them. That's right, right? So only the civilizations that receive the codes, but why did they receive the codes? because maybe they were of the line of Seth and eventually Noah, the ruling family. And that's why these guys, the sons of God, like to tap into that line because they want to have

image bearers in the image of the fallen angels ruling the world empires. But that's another story. So to come back to finish, to conclude, this is what I'm reading. Once I had this epiphany about the word Elohim and Yahweh, and I could see the Hebrew strong dictionary codes that the word Elohim appears in Genesis chapter one alone exclusively and the continental life man is categorized with the animals with the beasts of the earth that are the nefesh bears both the chapter one verse one 24 verse chapter one verse chapter one verse 24 and the end of the creation story begins and ends with the word nefesh the life bearing people it's a it's a division of

species. And they are created as part of the continental life. Then we have the day of rest. Then suddenly we're told there is no agriculture, but what kind of agriculture, what kind you can cultivate? Because agriculture is mentioned for the first time in the Bible. Everything here has been wild. Then we have the name of God introduced, the God of God's Yahweh. His name is introduced for the first time. That's huge, huge. That the name of God appears for the first time. It's called the law of first mention. Every time a word appears for the first time, like where does the word love appear for the first time in the Bible?

At the binding eye of Isaac, when God says to Abraham, take your only son, whom you love. That's where the word love appears the first time in the entire Bible, chasad. The law of first mention, the first time a word appears, it has super significance,

above and beyond a word appear. The first time, the name of the God of God's, The one that Moses says, what is your name? The first time that name appears is in the context of the creation of this man who's in the garden. Everything becomes singular. He's created in the garden. He's not told to roam the earth. He's not told to be of the here.

There's no female version for him for a while. Then with him comes the kind of stuff you can cultivate. And what the fossil wreck of chores is that out of the Middle East comes agriculture and husband domestication of animals. Livestock. And the bones of those animals appear around 9,000 years before the time of Christ and agriculture is new. And I don't know about the exactness of the dates,

but I see there's a clear sequence of all these guys roaming the earth and then agriculture appearing and then the first cities appearing because the fallen angels gave authority to these priest's kings and gave them, made them the rule, the ruler over humans. and humans reorganized from clan structure to serve the representatives of the fallen angels, the priest kings,

and that is the beginning of the world order, what eventually we will call the world order. And then God comes and takes Abraham out of it, connects him to his priest king, which is an image of the future Messiah. Because the Messiah is not from the line of Aaron, but from the line of Melchazadek as a priest king. So this is the new kingdom being born,

already in the life of Abraham, because God preached the gospel to Abraham, we're told. Paul says that. But from the belly of the imperial system, which has these beings behind it, who give knowledge, who create their own image bearers. So this is how the movie goes forward.

But the beginning of it, I think the text is clear that these stories are overlapping stories. They're stories of creation. There are stories about a single race, Adam, to whom the sin will come in the world. But within that story, we have the story of the ones made in the image of the angels.

That's why it's plural Elohim. Once you understand that that word doesn't apply only to Trinity, even though it can. And we have the story of the one that's made in the image of the god of gods, Yahweh Elohim, placed in the garden. And the distinctions between the two stories are in so many levels that I outlined that to me tell that these are two stories wrapped into a single narrative because they have overlapping commonalities. but then the distinction in words that identify each account gives me the precision of what makes

the stories distinct as opposed to being the same. Dang. And I'm focusing on those distinctions. Well, Ali, I love it because I think over the years doing this, people introduce really weird characters into like Luke loves to give me a hard time about the little people, right? You have these stories that are bizarre. It's like someone took a snapshot of the Old Testament. with like an old Polaroid and there's all this stuff.

It's blurry. You can't understand it. Right. But you have to sort of pull out, see what's going on in the whole picture, put it into focus and say there's more going on. It's more complicated than we realize. But a lot of the things that people interact with on our show don't make a lot of sense if there's just this very specific one or two things that exist and happen. You need a more, the story is more complicated, is what I'm saying. And I think that it helps us.

us make more sense of all the paranormal, all the strange, all the stories in the Old Testament, all the Ites, as you're saying, and the gods of nations, and all these different things that I think are all blurry and related. And then, you know, there's just no easy answer. There's no silver bullet kind of to explain. Just take the word of God literally and everything falls into place. That's what I'm doing. Most of my mind, because I didn't have this, is about taking the world literally. So people tell me, no, it means this, it means that. I'm like, well, it says what it means, right? And it agrees with the way that scientists say the whole thing unfolded. And you wouldn't believe how many people privately when I do the study with people,

how much it moves them past the creation versus evolution issue. Now the fossil record. Yeah, there's so many different types of humans. Agrees with what this is the Texas thing. There's so many different types of cryptids, so many different types of, you know, all the whole history. and I think that we don't have good answers for these things but we just appreciate it all the yeah I love this too because it goes back to like what does the text say exactly what are the words mean and what are the original words

and I think there's context it's easy to like to say this is controversial and this is a you know this is this is this is you know who knows this doesn't fit but then you go what the word says the word says the word says so you either believe it for what it says or you or you don't and you have you have a crafted narrative that makes you feel more comfortable. That's it. That's it.

A text without context is a pretext. There we go. And so many people function with those pretexts. And then they park themselves in places they emotionally can handle. And then it gets passed down from one seminary to another, one level of clergy to another. And then nobody even knows where the idea came from, but it's the truth we all adhere to. This is the way we understand it. Yeah, yeah.

And it's like, okay. I wonder if like this week's the spirit of religion is, is a part of a lot of the way, I think, that we keep our paradigms from getting a shotgun blast, right? I think that often as Christians, we're just called to trust God. And that means we get out of our mindset, get out of the way we see things, and see things are different. Either way, no matter what you say, it's more complicated. Well, if you're Protestant.

All the things we talk about. If you're Protestant, you have this freedom of exploring the Bible, and that freedom can be also dangerous because tons of people come up with all kinds of crazy ideas. But in the Catholic and Orthodox and all these traditions, it doesn't work that way. You can't just pick up the Bible and go with it. Because the Bible is understood not only through Solis Scriptura, but also through holy tradition. Which means the collective wisdom of generations of interpretation is how the Holy Spirit is moving through the generations of the church. That's how they understand it.

So the way was handed down has in it the Holy Spirit. It's not just you figuring something out from the Bible by yourself. So it's even more complicated to bring change from the Bible revelation in this age where Revelation is pouring from God like rain juice is flooding us. Some people say because Israel came back to life and the land came back to life and the desert bloomed and the nation was born again. That influenced the church the way that when it happened 2,000 years ago when the Jews came to know the Messiah, the Roman Empire changed.

That there's a, that there's a, the spiritual Israel and the physical Israel have kind of a symbiotic relationship. And the rebirth of Israel as a nation is part of the catalyst that has, you know, has brought so much knowledge into the mind of the church. But the information is coming from God for the next generation to be prepared to go through the apocalypse, it seems, is so dense and so intense and so powerful and so wide that the seminary system of the traditional church is. not equipped to handle and digest it, unfortunately.

But regardless, this is my take of perhaps. This is the DVD. Yes. And all these explanations involve UFOs, angels, gods, and all the weird stuff. And that's why we bring on the show, Ollie's, because I think we've cracked open that nut and we realize there's just a lot more characters. And you need harder conversations around these things, but all these things can exist and the Bible can be used to explain all these things.

If you want it and you want to read it for what it says, but thinking you need it, In Begin Productions. Ali, tell our listeners where, again, where they can find you. Yeah, yeah. Go to my website, think again, Productions.com. It's one word. You can see my documentary on the front page. Double click on it will take you into my YouTube page.

And please, if you want to support my ministry, you can leave a donation by clicking donate and send a donation. It can be a one-time donation. You can also sign up for my Patreon page. That is something that I'm building where I'm running an audio series in the Book of Revelation. and there'll be other things that are just for the patrons. Patrons. So don't hesitate to email me if you have any questions.

I don't mind answering those emails. And I'll see you around in the blurry sphere. All right. Thanks. Let's go.