Blurry Creatures - EP: 40 Giants, Gods, & Dragons with Derek Gilbert

Episode Date: May 16, 2021

In Episode 40, author, podcaster, and host of SkyWatchTV, Derek Gilbert joins the show. Derek has written a number of books on ancient giants, the Nephilim, the Watchers, and apocalyptic prophecy. He hosts his own podcast A View From The Bunker and video shows 'SciFriday' and 'Unraveling Revelation' with his wife, author, and analyst Sharon. For this episode, we delve into Derek's extensive and expansive knowledge of ancient history and the corresponding texts and civilizations that parallel and confirm the biblical narrative surrounding Mt. Hermon and the inception of Giants. We peel back the layers and brush back the sands of time to discuss ancient spiritual entities, giants, the gods and heroes of lore, and even the existence of dragons.  guest: derekpgilbert.com contact: [e-mail] Socials instagram.com/blurrycreatures facebook.com/blurrycreatures twitter.com/blurrycreatures Music Kyle Monroe: tinytaperoom.com Aaron Green: https://www.instagram.com/aaronkgreen/ Mastering: ironwingstudios.com Outro Song: timecop1983.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Luke so often, people email us and they have this story. They're out in their woods and they're looking in the bushes. what's that? And when you are pouring your dog food and your dog's bowl, that's the last thing you want to say. What is that? What is the stuff coming out of this bag? You know, I don't think a lot of us think about maybe what we feed our dogs. And that's why we partner with rough greens. Most of us would love to have our dogs, you know, live as long as possible. I mean, I just lost my dog in December. And I would have just, I would have loved more time with Carl. And one of the things you can do to get more time with your dog is to feed them better. Dog owners don't usually realize that live nutrients, that their dog needs to thrive or missing from the food you just talked about. What is that, right? That's where Rough Green comes in. It's America's number one dog supplement that you sprinkle on top of their food. It's packed with prebiotics, enzymes, omega oils, and 20 live vitamins and mineral support digestion, energy and overall health from the inside out. It's all natural made in the USA and thousands of dogs are feeling younger, more energetic and healthier than they have in years. That's why we love it.

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That's RUFFF greens.com discount code blurry. Rough Greens makes any dog food better. You can stand us up with the gates of hell and we won't back down. We appreciate you guys being on this journey. with us because Bigfoot is to us your doorway to realize that there's so much more out there in this world. And I just want to be a little bit vulnerable with you guys. I went through a creative drought for the last 10 years of my life where I grew a project from a garage band to a band where we played all over the world and played stages like Lollapalooza. It was just crazy

watching like a food fighters documentary and like oh we played there in england same place you know and then it all ended one day and i found myself at home depot fixing up houses you know having these conversations with like people who work at home depot who don't want to be there and me the guy buying stuff at home people who doesn't want to be there and just driving home with my dog and my wife was working and i was just alone. And I didn't know what the heck happened to me. And so podcasts were my friend. I started to deconstruct the last 10 years of my life of traveling the world listening to podcasts. And little did I know that that was the start of this next stage in my life where I'm excited about blurry creatures in a way where it feels like we're in a little bit like the band in the garage

again. And I love what we're building. I love you guys out there listening and the messages and people getting and, you know, laughing about the memes. And I hope genuinely that you feel that. And every time a member pops into our email, like you've got a new member of the show, it just gives us a shot in the arm like, dang, this is awesome. Because, I mean, we really feel like we are up against some real darkness out there trying to keep these trudes from you and the rest of the people and in this cryptid space where people are a little bit of afraid to put a name to things because your your listenership goes down or you know people oh they just they talk about the bible too much on that podcast you know what i mean but we don't care we we feel like we're out

for better answers on this show so it gets weird here and And it's a little bit of a rant about my story, where I'm at. But I just, I just want you guys to know that. That, you know, we're not just like, oh, yeah, we want a podcast. Please support our show. It's, I feel it took me a long time to get here. And I'm excited about this. I really do believe in blurry creatures.

I do believe in what we're doing. And I do really thank you for giving us some of your time during the week to listen to our show. It means a lot and I've been through that drought and it feels good to be on fire again. That's right. Welcome to Glory Creatures where we talk about Bigfoot being the exposure of the matrix that we're all living in. And once you take that red pill, you can't go back. And on this show, we won't back down. We just get into it and it gets weirder and weirder.

It does. And we're happy to have you here. I love this show. One of my favorite reviews recently with someone says, Give me the juice. That was just the review. Luke's been out there in the trenches just chasing down guests. Just recruiting.

Recruiting Master Masons and our new pal Derek Gilbert. Yeah. It should be a fun one. I mean, he's had a friend of the show, Jed Burton on a few times, and he's joined us now. Look at that. Perfect timing. Didn't have to send out the bat signal this time, right?

Not this time, no. was that with Doug? I can you remember that was Yeah that was that was funny Like hey can you uh Hey Judd can you hit up Doug He's not showing up Yeah for those listening

Doug forgot what day it was And we had we hit up Judd on Facebook And said hey can you find Doug Or text him see what's up And Judd found Doug Got a hold of him And he came on the show right away So thanks to Judd for making that happen

Man where would the show be Without Dr. Judd Burton But today we have Derek Gilbert on the show. Really smart guy. Tons of media that him and his wife do. And it's really fortunate to have him on the show today to drop some ancient history on us. So without any further ado, let's bring on Derek. All right, welcome to the show, Derek, Gilbert. Derek, you're an author, podcaster. You have you on TV shows with Skywatch TV. You're very busy guys, so we're really happy to have you on the show today. You're friends with a lot of the guests we've had on the show, too. You've written about the giants.

You talk about a lot of the creatures that we're trying to discover and try to figure out what that is. And we have a tradition on our show. We ask every guest at the top of the hour. What are your thoughts on Bigfoot? Because that's our gateway drug to get people into this weird space of talking about these things. And that's kind of our wheelhouse. So if you don't have any thoughts on it, no big deal. But we just ask everybody just to kind of kick off the conversation.

So thanks for coming on. And yeah, what do you think? It's an honor to be here. I haven't given Bigfoot a lot of thought, although I just wonder if it's, you know, gigantopithecus, some form of hominid that somehow managed to survive in the wilds of the Pacific Northwest or other places around the world. But, you know, the possibility has occurred to Sharon and me as we, you know, every now and then we'll kick around the idea. Do you think those could be the remnants of the Nephilim? Well, yeah, but they were destroyed in the flood, so probably not. but there are a lot of creatures in this world that have yet to be discovered.

We don't know as much as we like to think we know as humans, and that's one of the things that kind of drives us to dig into what we can find out. We didn't want to replicate the work of folks like L.A. Marzuli and Tom Horn and Steve Quail and those folks. So that we kind of went in a different direction. But unfortunately, since Sasquatch hasn't left any written records, that's sort of. that we know of. We sort of focus on, yeah, that we know of.

So we kind of focus on the texts and things that we can document that way. So unfortunately, Sasquatch kind of falls outside our wheelhouse. No, that's fine. We interview a lot of people who talk about it, and there's so much paranormal activity associated with Bigfoot and Bigfoot sightings. And so, you know, we've, on our arc of our show, we've been talking to a lot of people about kind of ancient history. But some of the topics you talk about is you get into more modern stuff. what's about to come, what's coming around the bend. How do you see these giants, this Nephilim topics that we've been discussing?

How do you see that coming around the bend? What's coming in the future? And why do you think the church in general is pretty asleep to this? Well, we've sort of ennomed to this ever since the time of Augustine. One of the things that we've learned is we've been researching this, and I'm sure you've probably heard this from Mike Heiser and others as well, that it was the default belief of the early church that the giants of Genesis chapter six were literal entities. They actually existed. They were historic. This was not a fable that was invented by Moses and the Israelites to kind

of demonize, pardon the pun, their neighbors, their pagan neighbors in Canaan that they were about to push out of the land. There was a reason that they were there. The way Mike Heiser explains it is this. If you ask a modern 21st century Christian, why is the world in such a mess, we're likely to say, well, because of the fall in the garden. That's when sin and dent entered the world. And that is correct. But if you ask a Jew of the Second Temple period or one of the early apostles or the early church fathers, they would say, yeah, that's just one of the rebellions. You've also got the Genesis 6 rebellion on Mount Hermon, which is why Mike has written reversing Hermon and now two volumes of the reader's companion to the Book of Enoch.

And then you've got the rebellion after the Tower of Babel incident, where God placed the nations under the administration, if you will, of sons of God, angelic beings. This is documented in Deuteronomy 32, verse 8, where God, when he divided the nations, he numbered them according to the number of the sons of God. Jews of the Second Temple period understood that, and there are still Jews today who have an eschatology, an end-times perspective, that when their Messiah, who comes first is Messiah-Ben Joseph, and then either is resurrected by or into Messiah-Ben-Benzhou. David, he will judge the nations and their angels, the 70 angels, 70 being a symbolic number

that represents all of them, not one left out, the complete set. So when you look at the table of nations, Genesis 10, the descendants of Noah, there are 70. It was understood that there were 70 sons of God placed over the nations. And again, that doesn't mean there are exactly 70. it means that every other nation except Israel, who God reserved for himself as his allotted heritage, Deuteronomy 4 versus 19 and 20, that was, they were his.

So every other nation under the control of these fallen angels that were the pagan gods of the ancient world, Bail and Mulek and Kemash and Ashera, et cetera, et cetera, fallen angels. These are the same, you talk about this, Derek, these are the same gods we see like in the pantheon, right? the Greek and the Romans is Zeus and then we have, you know, the heroes, right, the men of renown, which is the Hercules.

So you have a book, your latest book you wrote with your wife is called Giants, Gods, and Dragons. And I know that you cover a lot of this stuff. And I was looking, I haven't read it. I'd like to now, but when I was looking to do research on, I'm bringing you on, there's so many interesting things you guys talk about in this book. And so if we're talking about Deuteronomy 32 and the Assigning of the Nations, some things you talk about happened at Babel, and it's relation to Babylon and then also Nimrod and where Babel actually was.

And can you drop some knowledge on us about that? And then also, and then once we have that foundation, we love to fast forward and talk about biblical prophecy and what, you know, the foreforsmen and, you know, some of these crazy things, Gog, Magog, but beginning, I want to start at the beginning because we haven't covered a whole lot. I mean, that's a lot. I know, but one of the things Nate and I in this, we haven't, we haven't dug into a ton of the,

I guess like the historical archaeological locale and then how that fits into the Bible and then we've just kind of always been like, okay, the giants, flood wiped him out, days of Noah, days of Noah going to happen again. But we'd love to start, they would love to talk about Nimrod and Babel and Babel on and how it's all linked together.

Sometimes it feels like when you get that phone bill, it's like the crash site document, you can't read it. There's a bunch of numbers, random fees, vague language. stuff's blacked out. You're like, what am I actually paying for? I don't know about you, but I like keeping my money where I can see it. I like to be simple. I like to be easy. I'm going to be thrown away money on big wireless carriers.

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nowhere, Texas. And if you want to save money, just like the illustrious Dr. Judd Burton, switch to Mint Mobile. If you like your money, say where it is. Mittmobiles for you. Shop plans at mintmobile.com slash blurry. That's mintmobile.com slash blurry. Up front payment of $45 for a three-month five-gigabyte plan required equivalent to $15 a month. New customer offer for first three months only, then full-price plan options available, taxes and fees extra, cement mobile for details. Yeah, I think this is one of the areas in which my genetic makeup kind of comes out. My sister inherited my dad's engineer's mind.

She actually is an engineer. But I think I inherited his curiosity. Why are things this way? okay this is what we see in the bible why did god do this why did god part the red sea why did god stop the sun you know keep the moon out of the sky for a whole day joshua's long day you know why the babble thing why did god decide to stop that that construction project and so that's kind of motivated where our our approaches has been sharing is the same way she loves language and loves looking at the etymology of various words and so forth and so you know together we

we sort of, I don't know, we're not exactly Mulder and Scully because we're not going out in the field much, but that is sort of the approach we take to this. Let's dig into this and find out and see what we can document in terms of the written record. Because God doesn't do things just for effect. He doesn't do things just so, you know, Cecil B. DeMille can come up with a really great scene in, you know, the Ten Commandments. Oh, look, he parted the sea. Wow, isn't that awesome? Well, yeah, but there's a reason he did that. And that's kind of what started us down this journey. In Exodus 14, we read that Moses was commanded by God to turn back. Like, wait a minute, they're getting away. Why did God tell them to turn around and to go back and camp at a specific place facing a site

called Bail Zafon? Well, it turns out, bail, number one, was the chief god of the people who actually controlled northern Egypt during most of the Israelite sojourn. They were Amorites called the Hixos, which is Egyptian for rulers of foreign lands. And their chiefs, God was Bail, who became the king of the pantheon by defeating the god of the sea, Yom, in single combat. So here, God tells Moses to camp in front of a place sacred to the God who mastered the sea, and Yahweh says, watch this, boom, and then destroys, yeah, the chariot core. There's more to it than that, but that's the simple story. That's what started us on this. Well, in trying to figure out what was going on with Babel and with Nimrod was kind of put onto a line of research by an Egyptologist,

kind of a maverick Egyptologist, David Rohl, who does not believe in the accepted timeline of Egyptian chronology, which even those who accept it, admit, is problematic. Things don't really line up, but no one else has come up with something that everyone else can agree on. So they just go with. And we've talked about that. We had, we, with in, just in reference to the sphinx into the, into the pyramids, like, like the dating doesn't make sense. There's water, there's water damage or water erosion on the sphinx that wouldn't have happened in the Nile Valley. maybe 10,000 years before they're dating it too. So we're tracking on that for sure.

Yeah. And David was, and he's not a Christian, but he understands that you can't find evidence of the Israelites sojourn in Egypt if you're setting, if you're accepting the standard timeline because the actual history of the time that the Israelites were in Egypt is like 200 years earlier than what Egyptologists say they must have been, when they must have been there. So if you're looking in the wrong place, you know, it's like in the Indiana Jones movie, Salah, they're looking in the wrong place. Right. So when you start digging into that history and following David Rolls research, he really puts forth some really interesting ideas, not all of which I agree with now, but his theory on the construction of Babel, though, I think makes the most sense of anything I've heard.

He identifies Nimrod as the Sumerian king, Enmerkar. Enmerkar, like Nimrod, is named as the second king of of Aruc after the flood. I mean, the Sumerians knew there was a massive flood. The Sumerian kingless talks about the flood that swept over. So the second king of Aruc after the flood swept over is this guy Enmerkar, who is probably the most famous Egyptian or rather Sumerian mythical hero after Gilgamesh, who was the king of Aruc two generations after Enmercar. So this Enmercar is remembered in a poem that still exists to this day from the old Babylonians, period, which is roughly the time of Abraham, say 1900, 1800 BC, that describes his effort, Emmerkar's effort to put the squeeze on a neighboring kingdom called Arata for building materials

so that he can rebuild the ancient temple to the God Enki at a city called Eridu. Samarians remember that the city of Eridu was the first city, where kingship first came down from heaven. It was a very important religious center, even as late as five, the 6th century BC, Nebuchadnezzar, was called the king of Eridu. And this was like 2,500 years or thereabouts after the city had more or less been abandoned. So he points out that this construction of this site was probably there. And that when you look at the excavations that were done just after World War II, 1949, archaeologists went to this site.

It's in southeast Iraq, not far from Uruk. At the time it was built, the city probably dates back to, 5 or 6,000 BC, it would have been on the shore of the Persian Gulf, but due to silt, you know, it's now 70 miles inland. This is the oldest ziggurat found in Mesopotamia. And had they completed the top layer of construction, it would have been the largest ziggurat in Mesopotamia for this god N. Kyi that most people have never heard of. Now, this temple, this ziggurat for Enki was called the Eabsu, or House of the Abbas. He was believed to live in an underground aquifer, the source of the fresh water that provided the waters of the Euphrates and the Tigris, which were critical to life in ancient Mesopotamia.

This was the god who sent forth the Apcalu, who is scholar named Amar Anus, as documented, was actually the origin of the watchers or the earliest records of what the he was. Hebrews called the Watchers. They brought the gifts of civilization to humanity as a gift from the God and key. They were semi-divine, some of them, meaning that they co-mingled with human women. They were not always considered good, but as Anu says, written in a couple of different papers now, that was the earliest conception of the watchers. The Hebrews didn't just steal the idea. They basically said, no, no, we know the priests and the sages in Babylon. credit these guys with giving them the knowledge from before the flood that made that made Babylon great again. But we understand from Yahweh that their teachings are evil. They taught things

we weren't supposed to know. Well, this is very similar to the story of the watchers on Mount Hermon, where you've got these two characters who primarily lead the rebellion, Shemi Azza, who was called the chief of the watchers, who led them in their sexual sin of comingling with human women, and then Azazel, or Azazel, who taught us the secret knowledge of, witchcraft and sorcery and making weapons and divining the future by the position of the stars and stuff like that. So very much the Prometheus character from Greek mythology. So all of this encapsulated in this poem about Enmerkar and the Lord of Arata, where he wanted to build the temple above the abyss for the God Enki to make it an abode of the gods.

There's even a reference in this poem to the confusion of languages. is. It's great. I mean, it's all, it's the same story. And we're getting the same. Essentially, yes. So, so David Roll, I think, is correct on that. And I think Enmercar makes the most sense as the, as the, the character. We also see in that poem, though, that the relationship between Enmercar and this king of this, this neighboring kingdom, which may be a different transliteration of Errorat, which would be really interesting, because that's where Noah landed the ark. Yeah. And archaeologically speaking, Sharon's put me on to some research for my forthcoming book that shows a lot of history going back to the plains of Eurarat.

Archaeologists are not processing it through a biblical worldview, so they're not seeing the connection here. But in fact, Jud Burton, who I know has been a guest on your program, has written about this recently, too, about the origin of the word that means king in so many languages. Yeah, we had them on. He actually does show about Rafa and Jason that all the way back to the Refiame and the Rizabeth. Exactly, deriving it from this location in the plains of Ararat between the Caucasus, between the Black Sea and the Caspian Sea, the Caucasus, the Southern Caucasus region. There's some other research there that basically traces back to that location.

And that's also where the Sumerians believed their homeland was originally, before they headed south and founded the Sumerian civilization in southeast Iraq. Anyway, for whatever reason, this God found it necessary to stop this building project. But it's also interesting to note that in these poems that the patron deity of this character, Emmerkar, Nimrod, was the goddess Inana. Now, the patron god of the city of Oruk originally was the sky god, Anu, who Sharon and I believe was the twisted fake news version of the creator, Yahweh. But Anu, like the sky god in Greek religion, Aranus and Kalas in the Roman religion,

Anu in the Hurrian and Hittite religion was overthrown by his son, Enlil in Mesopotamia, Kumarbi for the Hittites and Hurrians, chronos to the Greeks, Saturn to the Romans. And in many of those stories, the sky god was castrated, literally. Wow. Which symbolizes, you know, he's no longer the god. I'm the god. And I'm in charge now.

So anyway, Anu was basically pushed out as the patron deity of the home city of Nimrod, Aruk, in place of Inana, who Sharon has done a lot of research on. She gave a presentation, excellent presentation on this a couple of years ago for the Skywatch TV conference on how she is the spirit of the age. When you read the early hymns in praise of Inana, you see that she was venerated for her ability to turn men into women and women into men and her temple servants. You really can't translate the Sumerian words into English because it's, if this is a family program.

But essentially they were, you know, eunuchs, they were transgender, they were transvestite. It was, it was, she was the first gender fluid entity. Some of her hymns describe her talking about how she's a woman, but when she sits in the tavern or the bar or the alehouse, she could also be an exuberant young man and she's sometimes depicted with a beard. So this was an old concept when Moses came down from the mountain.

Bear in mind, Sumerian writing was only, the oldest I think we found is about 3,100 BC. So 1,500, 1600 years later, Moses came down the mountain and said, we're not doing that. That was progressive.

Does this, does this, does this, This character, this deity, does this have any relation to the horror Babylon? Are we seeing like, is there? Oh, yeah, yeah. Sharon argued in that presentation that that is, in fact, the whore of Babylon. And that is a line of research that we're pursuing. My forthcoming book is called Saturn's reign. And it looks at this old entity, Saturn, Kronos, Bail-Haman, L, N-L, Qumarby, Dagon, same entity by different names.

And is this Satan? Are we talking about like the same, I mean, Azazel? No. No. No. Satan in the New Testament is identified by Jesus, actually. That would be Bale or Zeus or Jupiter or Thor. Yeah. Sorry, kids. Thor is Satan. Well, this kind of brings up a question I have is you were talking about 70 nations, right?

And some of the confusing thing on our show is that post-flood, pre-flood, what happens to these sons of God? How many are there? Where do they go? are they building these pyramids over the abyss where they are located underground? Is it like something? Because Jesus says that I'll build on this rock, I'll build my church. Right, right. Is that related to some of these pyramids and temples? Are they building them in certain locations because it's in access to the underworld?

I don't know. Well, that's a really good question. And we can only speculate in that, to be honest with you. We don't believe that there's any portal that's going to open that God doesn't allow to be opened. but the next book that Sharon and I write together, tentatively working titles called The Gates of Hell. And it's going to argue that the Jordan River Valley is literally a portal between this world and the spirit realm. Not necessarily the netherworld. But when you look at what and who was venerated along that rift and all of the supernatural activity,

just documented in the Bible between Mount Hermon and we go as far south as Petra, actually. We're going to work on another book for next year, God willing, on Petra and the Supernatural. supernatural history of Petra, we argue that that was the location, at least of Kadesh Barnaya in the Bible, you know, where Moses struck the rock and the water gushed out, if not also Mount Sinai. And I know that that doesn't track with where a lot of people believe Sinai was, but we're not the first ones to think of this. There's a German archaeologist 100 years ago who made that argument.

But anyway, you look at the supernatural events described in the Bible, with the exception of things like Babel, which happened way over in Iraq, but almost everything else. happened along the Jordan River Valley between the northern end of the Red Sea and Mount Hermon. And some of the other supernatural locations, for example, the mountain that was sacred to Bail, Mount Zafon, which for which that site that I mentioned earlier, Exodus 14, Bail Zafon, was named for this mountain. We know where that is. That's near ancient Antioch. It's in Turkey on the border between Turkey and Syria. It's called Jebel al-Aqra today. Baylebeck, the site of the

largest temple to Jupiter in the Roman Empire, which was built on an older temple to Zeus Helioplatanus, or Zeus the city of the sun god, which in turn was built on an older temple to Baal. It's in the Beka Valley, which is that rift that scholars call the Dead Sea Transform. It's a fault line. We're talking about Cessori of Philpye there in the gates of hell. that is the temple to Zeus right there.

And that's actually in some museum now. I know that. Yes. I mean, you hopped into this episode 100 miles an hour. I love it. The supernatural is the tapestry

in which you read all of this, right? But there are some people who, they see all the supernatural clues. But for some reason, it doesn't connect to the Bible. But it's like, it's like Heiser said on an episode. He's like,

there's people who reject the Darwinian view of the world, but also reject the biblical world. view. So they see the supernatural, but they don't connect all these entities to one main story. And I think that we're trying to get to the core of that main story. And for some reason, some people deny it exists. Some Christians deny it exists. And then you have people, and then you have the ancient aliens community who are even, her steps ahead of most of these Christians. It's just a weird thing going on. And that's what we're trying to get to at the bottom of the show is like, I don't know if that's really a question.

No, no, and I appreciate you doing it. And you really need to do this and incorporate the worldview of folks like Brian Forster who see the clues, but maybe don't process it the same way. Just to show, hey, look, we're not denying the evidence. We're just analyzing it and processing it, interpreting it in a different way. And that's why Sharon and I went after the text evidence rather than trying to do what, you know, Forster and L.A. Marzuli and Steve Quail, Tom Horn, have been doing where they're, you know, actually out in the field and trying to find the bones.

What we can do is dive into the academic papers of the secular scholars who've been researching and digging stuff out of the sand of Iraq and Syria and Lebanon and Jordan and Israel for the last 200 years and say, you know what? We can document at the very least that the pagans around ancient Israel were venerating these, what they believed were the spirits of the dead, that they connected to these mighty men who lived in ancient times. we can show that this was transmitted from the Amorites hundreds of years before Abraham. And the Hurrians who played a much bigger role in this than we realized. That's going to be documented in my forthcoming book. They were also in the lands of the Bible as the Horites encountered by Abraham. Even the kings of the east had to do battle with the Horrites in the vicinity of Mount Sinai back in Genesis chapter 14. these beliefs were transferred to the Greeks and the Romans as the hero cults.

And you need to understand that in the classical period, the word hero had a very different meaning than we give it today in modern day America. For us, a hero is like, you know, the guy who can throw for 400 yards in a football game or hit 35, 40 home runs in a season. Back then, a hero was the spirit of somebody who had died, probably a demigod, half god, half mortal, or just a really awesome and powerful mortal whose spirit could still intercede for the living. That was a hero.

And they attracted cult, meaning you had to worship them, venerate them in certain specific ways. We documented it in our book Veneration, but even in Last Clash of the Titans, one of my earlier books touched on this, how this cult scholars acknowledge. The Greeks got it from the Amorites,

probably through Anatolia, Turkey and the people who live there, like the Hittites or the Lewians or the Hurrians. But it comes from Mesopotamia. It comes from the people who lived around the lands of the Bible. And as Mike Heiser says, guess what? Newsflash, the prophets read books. Yeah, they did. The apostles read books.

They knew what their neighbors believed, and it's reflected in the Bible. So we can show people, look, the Greeks and the Romans literally worshipped characters like Hercules and Theseus and Perseus. But they didn't invent this. This was being done by the Canaanites in the time of the judges. It was being done by the Amorites who lived along the Euphrates River and in Babylon in the time of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. We can document the fact that Amorites were literally holding ritual meals on behalf of their ancestors hundreds of years before Abraham was born. I think the earliest mentioned somewhere on 2,500 BC. So this cult goes back a long, long way.

But recent research just within the last 20 years, I mean, think about this. We're literally the first generation of access to this archaeological information. Yeah. A site in northern Syria, northeastern Syria, it's that little finger of Syria that kind of sticks up into Iraq, Iran, and Turkey. A site called Erkesh. Today, it's called Tel-Mozan.

The oldest known Hurrian city, they found a necromanic pit that, was used to descend into this pit, it's about 40 feet deep. They've only been able to go down about halfway because of the structural concerns and because they have been able to dig there since 2011, thanks to the Civil War there. Thanks, President Obama.

That's a mean, I think. There's a lot of droning. Yeah, yeah. And no boots on the ground either, except for those soldiers that we've got in it anyway. But they found, because the Hurrians had such an influence on the Hittites who had an empire based in central Turkey, and they preserved a lot of Hurrian religious texts, they can pretty well establish that as early as

3,500 BC, they were using this necromanic ritual pit to summon the god of the underworld called Kumarbi. Well, that's the same entity later called Saturn, Kronos, L, Enl, etc. So 3,500 BC, at the same time, the Sumerian civilization, which is skidding off the ground, the Hurrians had a civilization in northern Mesopotamia that was essentially doing what they were doing in southern Mesopotamia at the temple of Nki with his abzu, his abyss. And this pit at Erkesh is called the Abbey, which is etymologically the same as the Hebrew word Ove, which translates as medium. When Saul, the night before he was killed by the Philistines, went to visit the witch at Endor. No, he visited the Ove at Endor.

So we can show through textual evidence now, connections that go back thousands of years to northern Mesopotam. And here's this connection with Judd Burton's research and the Plains of Ararat connect. The people who founded that city Erkesh with the 40-foot-deep ritual pit came from the plains of Ararat. They were part of a civilization called the Kura-Ararax's civilization, modern-day Armenia, middle of the 5th millennium BC, they had a very unique style of pottery that's allowed archaeologists to trace their movement.

They've been documented in the vicinity of the Sea of Galilee around the year 2,800 BC. And here's the thing that's mind-blowing, a fellow by the name of Dr. Michael Freakman, who's excavated at Gilgall Refayim, which is that weird maze-like structure made of stone that's called the Stonehenge of the Middle East. It's like the Temple of Watchers, right?

Isn't that people say it could be? Some argue, yeah, Gilgal Raphaim basically means wheel of the giants. Oh, that's what it. It's probably a thousand years older than Stonehenge, and it's got half again more stone than Stonehenge. It's huge. And Dr. Freepin concludes that it's most probably was used to venerate the dead, the cult of the dead.

He's taken an interest in another monumental megalithic structure that was only discovered in 2012 at the Southwest Quartheonel. corner of the Sea of Galilee, 60,000 tons of stone, which means it's got half again more stone than Gilgal Refayim, a circular-shaped monument that's under 30 feet of water in the Sea of Galilee, just off the shore of this ancient city where these ancient Hurrians settled. And nobody knows why this thing is there. It's never been excavated before. But he connects it to an ancient Eucharitic myth. The Eucharitic culture is Amarite dates to about the time.

It was destroyed around the time of the judges in the Bible, so around 1,200 BC. But they had a myth of a king whose son was killed by the war goddess and buried in a tomb for the Refaim, the tomb for the underworld gods at Kineret, which is the Semitic name for the Sea of Galilee. So he's connecting this to their legend of this king and his dead son and this massive, massive structure. under 30 feet of water in the Sea of Galilee, which is, again, only about 15 miles, 20 miles away from Gilgal Raphaim. So maybe this is what I wanted to do in the first place. This is such a great.

So we have this establishment. There's the watchers. And then we have the demigods and all the interconnections between these different societies that basically all affirm the biblical account. Fast forward now. What we have to that is to that history is the book of Revelation and what's supposed to happen. in the end. Right. So it's not an accident that this stuff is that we're finding these things now. This is purposeful, correct? I mean, this is, it feels purposeful at least, that we're,

that all this unknown knowledge, that these things are coming to light. I mean, thoughts on that. Well, it's prophesied by the prophet Daniel, who was told that in the last days, people would rush to and fro and knowledge would increase. I think, I would argue that this is what we're seeing. Knowledge is increasing. It's only been since about nine. 1980 that scholars have conceded that there was a cult of the dead in ancient Israel or around ancient Israel that drew the Israelites in. The prophet Isaiah railed against it, but when you read the incident in the book of Numbers, Numbers chapter 21, 22, 21, I think, which is where Phineas, the son of Eliezer, the son of Aaron, the priest, takes a spear and stabs a young

Israelite man and a Midianite princess who are doing something, probably some sort of fertility right, in the sight of Moses and all Israel, possibly even within the tent of meeting. And he stabs them, which then basically satisfies God's wrath. He had sent a plague that killed 24,000 Israelites. So to us in our modern Christian worldview, the fact that they would perform this fertility right, and to be honest, there's only a couple of physical positions those two people could have been in for Phineas to get him with one, you know, stab of the spear. But when you read Psalm 106, verse 28, that's not what made God angry. It's that they were eating sacrifices offered to the dead as part of the worship of Ba'al Peor, Ba'el Peor. But this was only, again, within the last 40 years that scholars have generally conceded, yeah, the pagans around ancient Israel and, yeah, some of the Israelites were getting into this.

this veneration of the dead. And this goes back to that culture I mentioned from Eugart, the texts there found about 100 years ago. But some of them have only been translated within the last 40 or 50 years. And scholars are still arguing over what they mean. So when we look at that and then we, of course, the key and Tom Horn, credit him for this to keep the research that we're doing in the books that we've been writing from being just, okay, that's an interesting historical curiosity.

Okay. They were doing this 3,400 years ago. Why does this matter today? That is why we started looking at this and say, okay, now we need to apply this to prophecy. Where are we going? Why is this relevant to us? Because otherwise people, you know, it's like, all right, fine. If you're into history, this is fine.

But if you understand that that is all prelude to where we're going, then suddenly all of this history becomes relevant. And one of the keys, I give Mike Heiser credit for this, I was listening to his naked Bible podcast one day on his commentary on the book. of Ezekiel, which of course is one of the more prophetic books, especially chapters 38, the 37 through 39, you know, the Valley of the Dry Bones and then the War of Gog and Magog, when you get to Ezekiel 39, chapter or chapter 39 verse 11, there's a very interesting verse there where God describes the end of the war of Gog and Magog. And this is going to be the, the Battle of Armageddon,

in our view. Gog is the Old Testament or the Hebrew concept of the Antichrist character, who is essentially Satan's chief of staff, his military chief of staff. So the Antichrist leads this army against Israel. And then God says in Ezekiel 39, verse 11, I will prepare a place for burial for Gog on the mountains of Israel. It will be in the valley of the travelers, east of the sea, and it will block the travelers. And then Mike points out, just in passing. Oh, by the way, there's a reference for travelers in the dictionary of deities and demons in the Bible. Like, wait a minute, what? Most Bible commentators who look at that and say, well, the travelers, that's because that area east of the Dead Sea in the vicinity of Mount Nebo across from Jericho.

That's close to the King's Highway that ran from Egypt to Mesopotamacian. Right, yeah. Right, yeah. So we're talking about people on holiday at the Dead Sea, perhaps. Like, no, travelers was a term that was used by the pagans in and around ancient Israel to refer to spirits that traveled or crossed over from the land of the dead to the land of the living. And it's used specifically in one of the so-called Refayim text from ancient Ugarit. Again, that kingdom of that Amarite kingdom from northern Syria that was destroyed around the time of the judges. There's a series of three texts, scholars called the Refiame texts, that describe how they've been summoned through a necromancy ritual, essentially, to the tabernacle of Elle or the threshing floor of Elle or the sanctuary of Elle.

This is the Canaanite creator God, not God El Shediahe or El El Elion, but the Canaanic creator God. So it's a reference to summoning them to the summit of Mount Hermon, where the name of L. will revivify the heroes. Again, these spirits of the mighty men who were of old, the Refayne, these military men, they're described as mounting their chariots and traveling first one day and then another. And then they arrive, according to these texts,

at dawn of the third day, which in a Christian context, arriving at dawn of the third day to be resurrected is, you know, that should be a very familiar concept. Because that's like the central concept. concept of Christianity and why we are saved, because Jesus was resurrected at dawn of the third day. But 1,200 years before his resurrection, these pagan texts were summoning the spirits of the Nephalim, the Refaim, who were known by that name, by the pagan neighbors of ancient Israel,

to the summit of Mount Hermon, to be revivified in those texts. They are called travelers. Ezekiel, like 600 years after those texts were written, is saying, the war of of Gog and Magog concludes in the valley of the travelers east of the dead sea and it will block the travelers could this have anything to do with UFOs travels travelers well I had not considered that possibility except in so far as the UFO phenomenon is a deception from the spirit realm interdimensional entities rather than intergalactic yeah but I mean like travelers I mean there's so many of these UFO videos, they're just moving around

and they're going places and they're, I don't know. I just think, I don't know just tying that together. But here's the thing. In ancient Mesopotamia, it was believed that the vehicle

that transported you to the spirit realm was a chariot. Hence the Refi mounting their chariots and then traveling to, you know, Mount Hermann to be resurrected. This is why the gatekeepers, the gods were described as the gatekeepers to the underworld in ancient Mesopotamia,

Nergal and Reshef, who were plagued deity. who spread plague with their arrows, they were archers, were typically described as riding in chariots. And they were considered special protectors of chariots and chariot warriors. There was a strain of mystical Judaism

in the first century called Mercava. Mercaba is the Hebrew word for chariot. In fact, I think the main Israeli battle tank today, I think, is called the Mercava. It's like ancient euphology, almost. Yeah, and they would basically starve themselves so they would have visions and then be transported in a Mercaba

up to the throne room of Yahweh where they would get revelation. This resurrection, is this like the days of Noah? Are we talking about this is the return of these, you know, the Refiama, the Nephilim, the spirits. And so we're seeing, you know, the revelation says it'll be like the days of Noah.

Is some of what we're going to see as far as the days of Noah is going to be the resurrection, the return of these, demigods, these nephalum that are going to be essentially I would guess re-embodied, right? That's the whole point. Well, that's our argument is that this Entimes army that comes against

Israel is essentially demonically possessed. We believe that that battle at Armageddon takes place after the church is called out through what is commonly called the rapture by people who study the end times. So what's left on earth are people who are not protected by the Holy Spirit.

And so they are open to be possessed by these spirits. that are looking to be resurrected. In fact, that's what this whole war is about, fellows. It's about resurrection. Who is raised up at the last Trump? Right. Well, it's the gospel.

It's the counter for the gospel, right? We're talking about like the God. Right. It's the antichrist will be the counterfeit Messiah and this whole thing will be the counterfeiting of the gospel, right? It's the last big deception. Is that why there are some people getting abducted? Are they building the army through genetic?

Are they breeding off earth? Well, yeah, I don't know. Again, that's an area of research that we have not gone into. Either way. We just hear the stories and we don't know, like, what's the breeding all about? What's the obsession with? It may be a deception that is intended to convince people that that is what's taking place. Because we've heard questions, and I'm sure you guys have run across this as well,

people who are convinced that their children are, you know, nephalim, because they were impregnated by a spirit being. And so can my child be redeemed? Because, well, yeah, if you can ask the question, if they can ask the question, can you be saved, yes, then you can be saved. Is that still going on today? I don't know. I would suggest that based on the punishment of those who committed that sin back in the days of, in the days of Jared, you know, descended to Mount Hermann, the days of Noah, according to both Peter, 2 Peter 2, verse 4, they were thrust down to Tartarus. 1 Peter 3, verse 19 and 20.

You know, Jesus in the spirit descended to proclaim to the spirits in prison who were put there when God's, you know, waited patiently in the days of Noah. Jude basically confirming this by saying they are in chains and gloomy darkness until the judgment. I would suggest that the other sons of God, the Beneha Elohim, who saw what happened to that generation, probably not wanting to suffer the same punishment, So is it still happening? Don't know. I can't say.

There's no way to document it for sure. But I think it is part of this deception that suggests that there will be a false path to resurrection. I think people who are really deep into the UFO phenomenon who believe that our space brothers are here to help us evolve to the next level or new agers, which essentially the same thing. They're looking for an alien savior of sorts. alien savior of sorts I had a couple questions because we are a creatures podcast right so we talk about

creatures I know that in your last book you talked about the dragons are going to walk the earth you talk about wild beasts that come with the pale rider talk about the four horsemen the apocalypse and this is a lot of prophetic language but the expectation

is if you have a biblical worldview this stuff is coming would love some insight on that because we haven't really delving into that we've delved into here's what's coming according to prophecy we talked to Ryan Peterson about, you know, about biblical prophecy in his book on the Nephilim,

but we really haven't got real into it. But it's creatures. So it fits into our, like right into our wheelhouse. Well, the dragons in the Bible, there are a couple that are very obvious. Leviathan is described as a dragon and we spend some time on him. But Josh Peck and I even wrote some about Leviathan in our book on the UFO phenomenon, the day the earth stands still. When you, I mean, if you want to get a kid excited about the Bible, just have to read chapter 40,

one of the book of Job, where it describes a dragon. I mean, most Bible commentators will look at it and say, well, no, that's a, that's a crocodile. Oh, really? A crocodile from out of his nostrils comes forth, smoke is from a boiling pot and burning rushes, his breath kindles, coals, and a flame comes forth through it. That sounds like a crocodile to me. That's a dragon.

It is a dragon. I've heard people say dinosaur too, but that doesn't even really fit. Like, I mean, it, well, again, fire breathing dinosaur. Yeah, it's a dragon. Yeah. Yeah, but we also see dragons in the book of Revelation. Of course, the seven-headed red dragon Satan in Revelation 13, the beast that emerges from the sea, which is kind of a chimeric hybrid creature, body of a leopard, you know, et cetera, et cetera.

But when you understand what the ancient Mesopotamian depictions of dragons, that's exactly how dragons were depicted in ancient Sumer, in ancient Babylon, the Acadians. That's how they depicted dragons. And they've got a very old tradition, by the way, of a warrior god having to subdue a seven-headed dragon, going back at least 2,600 BC, a picture of the war god Ninerta having to battle a seven-headed dragon, which, by the way, we just learned last year, was named Boschmu. And Boschmu is just the Acadian cognate, you know, same word, different language, for Bashan,

which is the land at the foot of Mount Hermon, on which, by the way, thanks to Google Earth, Sharon and I stumbled onto a three-quarter of a long. mile long serpent-shaped ridge that's covered with megalithic burials. Oh. So, yeah. Serpent mound of Bashan. No, it's three times longer, five times higher than the great serpent mound here in the United States.

And it's a quarter of a mile from Gilgal Raphaine. I was going to point that out. I mean, this is like not a, it's everywhere. It's from, from Norse mythology to we've got mounds. We interviewed a guy here who has a serpent mound on his property and found giant bones in it. To there's the, the feathered serpent that's all throughout. South America.

Catholic Cawaddle, right? There's a Japanese dragon. I mean, this is everywhere. Are you saying there's going to be real dragons, not just the metaphorical? Well, here's the thing. One of the kinds of angels that we read about in the Bible, the ones that are most known, the Malakim in Hebrew just means messenger. And that is typically what we think of as an angel.

They were not winged, by the way. They look just like humans. Abraham entertained three angels, one of which turned out to be God himself, but The other two were the ones who went to Sodom to rescue Lot and his family. And we've got the cherubim or properly caravim who are kind of weird. They've got the four faces and they probably look like a bull-like sphinx more than the chubby babies with wings that we see in the medieval paintings. And then there's the, you know, the seraphim. What's interesting about the seraphim is that we see that that word seraphim is used interchangeably a couple of places in the Old Testament with the word Nakash.

Nakash is the serpent, the word translated serpent in Genesis chapter three. So the rebel in Eden, the serpent there, the talking snake, was actually a divine creature called a Nakash, perhaps a reptilian. In fact, Mike Heiser has even made that suggestion. But in Numbers chapter 21, the story of the fiery serpents who bite the Israelites. And so Moses has to put a bronze serpent on a pole and they have to look at the bronze serpent so that the fiery serpents will leave them alone. The words translated fiery serpent is actually seraphim Nakashim.

And then in Isaiah, we see a couple places where they're used interchangeably. So essentially, what you've got are flying, because the seraphim and Isaiah chapter six have six wings, flying fiery serpent. Oh. What would you call a flying fiery serpent? You'd probably say a dragon, Nate. Dragon, yeah. So we think that if these entities are making appearances in the end times, which they may

well, we may literally see what we would call or identify as serpents. And, of course, the giants, the spirits of the nymphs. Nephilim destroyed in the flood. We spend some time in the book explaining why the early church universally until Augustine came along, accepted that the origin of demons were the spirits of the Nephilim destroyed in the flood. In fact, interestingly, we learned that Hesiod, who was an early Greek poet, who wrote a lot of what we know about Greek religion, we were taught to call it mythology, but it was their religion, that the spirits of the men who lived during the golden age when Kronos ruled in heaven, in other words,

Kronos and his group, the Titans, who were thrust down to Tartarus by the Olympians. In other words, the Titans equals the Watchers of Genesis chapter 6. Anyway, those men who lived during the Golden Age, meaning the pre-flood era, when they died, they became demons, demons, except that they were considered kindly. So they understood it was the same group. It's a disembodied. Yeah, it's a disembodied spirit. The spirits of the heroes before the flood, they became the demons.

They've been with us ever since. Demons still afflict humanity to this day. So they never went away. When you think about it then, when Jesus was casting demons out all over Judea and Samaria and the Galilee, he was doing battle with the giants. And we believe those will be the entities that are the travelers who are destroyed at the final battle, Armageddon. So giants, dragons, and then the gods of the spirit realm, the small G gods who were placed over the nation's Deuteronomy 32. But you see in Psalm 82, I mean, Psalm 82 is a courtroom

seen in heaven where God condemns these entities for not ruling humanity justly. They accepted worship. They ruled unjustly. And so God said, though you are gods, sons of the most high, like men, you shall die and fall like any prince. The death of the gods has been decreed. We're just waiting for sentence to be carried out. So I have a question about all that is that, like, So from our understanding, you know, there was the remnant. There was these, some that survived the flood. In the same way, there's still some supernatural entities causing harm today, but it's not the same like it was in the golden age, right?

So we have this, you know, the giants seemed very destructive before the flood. And then somehow some survive and there's still this, you know, and after Christ dies, you know, for the most part, these beings lose their power. but they're still not destroyed. What is going on? Like, if we're just waiting for this age to be consumed, there's just this lingering where the bow has not been wrapped up tight and there's a whole horde of people,

I still think The Matrix is one of the most important films of our generation because unless you really understand what that film's trying to tell you that everything you know is wrong and a lie, and you've been completely brainwashed to believe this reality that they've set out for you? Well, in fact, I was just working on a section of my forthcoming book last night on modern-day cults of Saturn. And the fact that Damien Eccles, who was one of the West Memphis 3,

had just published a Bush last year, saying that he's now found the key to ultimate supernatural power, which is summoning Enlil, who, again, is just another identity warned by this old entity, Shemiyazza, the chief of the watchers, who's now with his colleagues in the netherworld. Mr. Eccles, I believe, is sadly misinformed. But the thing is this, Mike Heiser, I thought, really commented, made it interesting and very astute observation on the Babylon working,

which was L. Ron Hubbard, founder of Scientology, and Jack Parsons, who founded JPL, subject to that recent CBS series, Love and Rockets, I think it was, or the movie Love and Rockets. Anyway, the whole point is that they went out into the desert in early 1946 and did a second ritual, which they thought brought forth the horror of Babylon, the scarlet woman. And that's been pointed to why a lot of researchers saying, see, that was when things really started getting weird, because in 1947, then we started the whole modern UFO phenomenon and so forth. Mike said, and it was like a forehead slap moment. It's like, why didn't I see that? None of these entities can do anything that God doesn't allow. And he said, and furthermore, if these entities that are so

powerful, we should be really scared of them, need the permission of a couple of deviants going out and doing sex magic in the desert to actually manifest in our time space continuum, they're pretty lame. That's a good point. Okay, yeah. What they are doing, however, is they are getting more people to trust in their false plan of salvation over the plan of salvation offered by God in the Bible. That is the danger.

It's not that they can do things that will cause us harm, although they can if you start meddling with them and inviting them in, giving them permission to work through you and afflict you. And sometimes God will allow them to afflict us for his purposes because we need to be taught a lesson or perhaps in order to train us for something that is yet to come. But they can't do anything that God doesn't allow for his purposes and ultimately it's going to work toward his goal. They have the hubris to think. And the research I've done in this entity, again, operating under multiple different names over the generation. Shemiyazha, Kumarbi, L, Nl, Daegun, Bayal, Haman, Saturn, Kronos.

Molek, he believes that he is the rightful king of earth. In fact, Molek is just a twisting of the Hebrew word melech. He was the chief god of the Ammonites, Milcom, just an epithet, king. He thinks he's the king or should be. and he'll get out at the end. In Revelation 9, it's prophesied that the abyss will open and they get five months to torment humanity, those who don't have the seal of God in their foreheads.

The church will be out of here by then. But you ever wondered, and this is really an interesting thing, you talk about the return of the days of Noah. You ever wonder why in Revelation 9 they get five months to torment humanity? When you go back to Genesis chapter 8, you see how long the ark was on the water before it came to rest on the mountains of Ararat.

150 days. On a 30-day lunar month, that's exactly five months. That's no accident. God is book-ending it at the end. They will get five months to torment the children that God created just as they had five months

as they were chained in the abyss watching their children, the Nephalim, destroyed by the flood of Noah. So the days of Noah, I think, has more significance than we understood. Nothing in the Bible is there by accident. And as we just keep peeling away the layers of the onion, more things are revealed to us. We're not trying to invent a new way of understanding the scripture and a new way of understanding end times prophecy. We're just trying to understand it

the way the prophets and the apostles did. We've kind of lost that over the last 1600 years because we've been taught that the Bible is not as supernatural as it really is. Nathan talked about us all the time is that there's such a dismissal, I feel like, in the mainstream Christian church in the space to gloss over or talk away or wish away parts of the Bible that make them uncomfortable like Genesis 6 like Deuteronomy 32 like Psalm 82 these things that actually explain so much of you know of the tapestries I like to say I have a question like how do you think these sons of God manifested themselves on earth because it seems like they were seductive and it seems like these tribes were loyal to them and then

I think the reason the church doesn't believe is because they don't manifest the same way they used to, right? They're not as interactive or visible or... Yeah, it's like that line by the French author Baudelaire that was cited and quoted or paraphrased in the movie The Usual Suspects. The greatest trick the devil ever pulled is convincing the world he doesn't exist. Oh, yeah. But it's more than just the devil, as we've showed through I think our research, certainly the Apostle of the Prophets do it. There's more than just the devil. there are a whole bunch of these gods, fallen angels.

I mean, God created them with free will, just like he created us with free will. And they, many of them chose to exercise it badly just as all of us do. I mean, there is none righteous, no, not one. Well, yeah, a lot of the angelic realm chose to rebel against the creator as well, and that's why the world is in such a mess. They probably manifested as glorious and beautiful entities. As Paul writes in the New Testament, even Satan can appear as an angel of light, or appears as an angel of light.

So we as humans, seeing this entity that's larger than life and just unimaginably beautiful will immediately assume, oh, he's one of the good guys and follow them. But you've also got then a large number of people who, many of whom even call themselves Jews or Christians or Muslims, don't really believe in the supernatural realm. The research of George Barna from Arizona Christian University shows again and again that the majority of American Christians don't really believe. believe that Satan is a literal, literal entity, much less any of these other small G gods. Demons. Well, we quit believing in them when we invented psychiatry, psychology.

If you're a Christian and you believe that the universe was spoken into existence by an omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent deity, who then manifested as fully human and then rose again from the dead three days after he was in the tomb, why should the rest of what's in the Bible conform to our naturalistic understanding of science. Yeah. On our show, Derek, like, we use Bigfoot as kind of the gateway drug to that. Seriously, because people will see it disappear and people have thoughts put in their head by this creature.

Of all the crypted creatures, people see that one the most. And it's the most puzzling. It confuses people. And their whole worldview crashes the moment they see this thing, hunters. And so what we tried to do on this show is be like, it's way stranger than you think. And the weird part about it is is that, you know, it just seems so different in the Old Testament than now. And these gods that manifested themselves in culture and had this loyalty and could do supernatural things. Is there any hope for any of them?

Are any of them, can they be redeemed at all? Are they all evil? Or they, it seems confusing, you know? That's a really good question. I would suggest, yes, if they can ask the question, what can I? do to be saved? What can I repent? It's possible. The thing is, we haven't seen any evidence from those that have been condemned that they have any intention of doing so. In the book of Enic, there's the interesting scene where Enick is asked by the angels who are weeping.

And by the way, there's a scholar by the name of Lopinski who's identified where that took place. Headwaters of the Jordan River, really interesting. We're going to try to visit you. Anyway, they send Enoch to God with the petition. Please, we're sorry. It's like, well, yeah, it's one of those sorry, not sorry sort of things. Because God's answer through Enoch is you should have prayed for these humans. Instead of praying for you to be restored to your heavenly realm, you should have prayed for these humans. So does that imply that if they had actually that they weren't really sorry, they were just sorry they got caught?

You know, like a kid who gets his hand caught in the cookie jar, not really. really sorry, took the cookie, just sorry you get caught. Don't know. Don't know. We can only speculate on that. I guess the long answer I'm giving you, which should have been assured, we can only speculate. We don't really know for sure, but it's an interesting question to think about. It seems like the angelic story is a lot like a human story. You know, it's just, it's got a lot of characters and problems. And for some reason, I have a lot of artist friends who love these complicated character roles. And then they view ancient history, like the most boring story you've ever heard. Right. That we just evolved over billions of years and there's, that's it. And these

civilizations that built these magnificent structures, these magnificent megalithic temples, these classical architecture and these megalithic structures, somehow they were too stupid to realize that what they were seeing was just, they were just inventing these gods to explain the weather. Right. Yeah. Right. And then, yeah. And then there are building things pre, you know, pre-flood that that they couldn't build post-flood. And then you've got to be like, well, how do you even justify any of that? Oh, yeah.

Things don't go get worse. That doesn't happen, like, not, you don't go from better to worse, like in your technology unless there's been. Well, there's this slow arc. They think it's a slow climb. We're slowly getting more technical. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. So one of my last questions is, and I appreciate you coming on and dropping all this on us, is are some of these entities involved with, with major institutions like the Vatican? and are they getting, are they directly channeling some of these gods, getting their, their plans? I mean, because it seems like the world is on a faster timetable recently. Like, we got to get, we got to get this plan going, you know, and the government's on disclosure quick.

It just seems like everything's been ramped up and it seems someone's pushing the orders down. Well, yeah, and again, that's not an area that we've dug deep into as far as research goes. but, you know, it's kind of surprising as I'm working on this book, which I thought ostensibly was going to be about the Roman gods, Saturn and his various incarnations. And I find myself writing about the art, the art and architecture of the United States Capitol. So, yeah, there probably are messages being exchanged. I mean, I know Maliki Martin wrote in Winswept House about a, which was a novel, but he wrote about a ritual that he later said was inspired by something he had heard about taking place inside the Vatican, an occult ritual connecting Charleston, South Carolina, and the Vatican, and done over the phone, because it would have been too dangerous to do the ritual itself in the Vatican, risk of being caught, but that there were those in the Vatican, I think John Paul, if I remember correctly, John Paul II, who called this satanic or Luciferian presence the super force inside the Vatican. But, you know, it's not just the Vatican. I mean, you can look all around the world,

and wherever there are those who are trying to seek the truth of God, the enemy will be trying to infiltrate. Russ Dissar, a friend of ours who's in deliverance ministry, has talked about the way covens and groups will try to infiltrate or sabotage churches by working from the inside out. We shouldn't be surprised by that as Christians. This is a very long struggle, And yet we have been trained that all of these gods worship by the pagans of the ancient world, the gods worship by Wiccans today, the gods worship by even the neo-pagans today. Our friend Carl Ticryb has done the author of the book Game of Gods, has been attending pagan gatherings in recent years.

He attended the last, what was it called Paganicon about two years ago, and heard from worshippers of deities like Athena and Thor and Odin that they're being told, now by these old gods at the time has come to rebuild their temples. Because I guess they're getting tired of meeting at, you know, Holiday Inn, conference centers. So, but there, but on a more ominous note, a friend of ours who is an expert on satanic ritual abuse, uh, because he came out of it himself. Dr. Gregory Reed down in El Paso, Texas, told me a couple of years ago that a friend of his who's embedded with an occult organization within an occult organization, told him that the occult practitioners trying to summon things from the other side were telling

him that something opened, a portal opened and something is coming through now that's malevolent, very powerful, and they don't know how to stop it. So it's interesting that these folks who were summoning these things are suddenly panicked because they didn't want this, but they don't know how to stop it. Well, I go back to what I said earlier. Nothing is coming through that God has not allowed to come through. So we as Christians should be alert. We should be praying for our friends, our family members. We should be taking advantage of the time we have to share the hope we have in Jesus Christ because the hour grows short. We still have daylight to work, but it will not last forever. We want to make sure as many of those that we love come with us into essentially the

second arc, if you will, to escape the storm that's coming. Because there are people out there on this battlefield, the supernatural battlefield, who don't understand where they are. They don't know why they're being shot in the spiritual sense, why they're wounded, why they're hurting, why they're suffering. And many of us in the church are still looking at Jesus as sort of a cosmic life coach. You know, we follow these principles. This is how we can live your best life now. No, as Christians, our best life is in the next life, the world that is to come. If we're focused on this life, Paul was very specific about this.

If our hope in Jesus, if our hope in Christ is in this life only, we of all are most to be pity. So we need to focus on that. Yes, there are entities out there who want to destroy us and everything that we love, but it's always been that way. It's no different. Are things ramping up? Yes, because I think the end game is approaching, which means time grows short, and we need to take advantage at the time that we have left to share the hope that we have with gentleness and respect, because I will say this from my

career as a secular salesman. After 20 years of sales, I can confidently say that nobody responds well to an opening line that goes like this. You're stupid and everything you know is wrong. And if we come across that way, we make ourselves a stumbling block between them and the gospel. So gentleness, respect, let the Holy Spirit work, and just keep prayed up. Yeah, I appreciate it. Yeah, we, so many, we have an 80s theme on our show, and you talk about Indiana Jones, and I was just thinking of that classic scene from Field of Dreams, right, when he walks across the baseball field, he says, you're going to lose the farm, Ray.

and then the doctor walks across the field and he's like, don't sell the farm. Don't sell this place, right? That moment when you can't see the supernatural, but then it clicks, you see it, you can't go back, right? Yep, yeah. And then his whole life's changed. He goes from yelling at him from one minute, the next minute,

like this place is something different about this place. Yeah. And that's kind of what we're trying to do on our show is just say, you know, this kind of happened to me. and I had to document the journey and Bigfoot was my gateway. That's how I got into all this. Sure, sure.

And then I started hearing Heiser talk about the giants and it's like, wait a minute, I already think there's some strange stuff in the world. So what? They're giants? And we appreciate you coming on and just dropping so much knowledge on us. How can people get involved with some of the things you're doing?

Where can they find you and listen to your shows and just tell them, because you got a lot, you got a lot more knowledge than we do, and we appreciate that. Well, you're very kind. Sharon and I are sort of our web hub is Gilberthouse.org. That's all one word, gilberthouse.org. Of course, a lot of what we do is available through Skywatch TV.

We host a weekly program called Sci Friday, which will soon go on hiatus. We also host a program called Unravelling Revelation, which is there, but Sci Friday will be making way for a new program coming within the next couple of months called the Bible's greatest mysteries. And that will be, we hope, an antidote to ancient aliens and the like, because there are a lot of mysterious questions like you guys are addressing.

And there are biblical answers for them. So that's what we want to address. We're looking forward to hopefully being able to travel again soon. But we've got some video, thankfully, saved from our travels to Israel and a couple of other places, Sardinia, the UK. and we'll make some use of that. But we also want to talk with experts who've been in the field, archaeologists and epigraphers,

people who study these ancient texts, tell us how do we know that this really means what it says? Why can we trust this? And address these issues, because there are a lot of things like Bigfoot, like the UFO phenomenon, that draw people away, people who deal with the abduction experience,

but then think that because they've been chosen that that's their path to becoming special. Well, look, God has already said, you're special. The creator of the universe willingly died for you. How much more special can you get than that? Yeah. And yet we as Christians don't do as good a job as we should

at conveying that sense of awe and wonder. We've seen people who were just absolutely gobsmacked when we were blessed to travel to the foot of Mount Hermon a couple of times now, to Cesarea Philippi, the grotto of Pan, and to repeat those words from the gospel where Jesus has that conversation with Peter. You know, who do you say that I am? Oh, you're the Christ, the son of the living God. Yes.

And on this rock, this 9,200 foot mountain right behind me, I will build my church. And the gates of hell, which by the way is this cave right over here will not prevail against it. And people have never made that connection before. In fact, it was Judd Burton describing that. in an interview back in 2010 that got me started down this like, you mean there's a reason that Jesus did that there? And then right after that, he climbed this very high mountain for the transfiguration

to send a flare into the spirit realm saying, I am. What are you going to do about it? And then from there went to Jerusalem to complete his mission. So there are reasons for all of those things. And I'm just, you know, Sharon and I are just blessed that Tom Horn has taken us under his wing and that he has provided this opportunity.

We get to do this as our way of putting bread on the table. And so I'm just delighted and excited when you fellows like you give me an opportunity to talk about this. Because this gets me charged up. This is why I love getting out of bed every morning because we get to do this. And if we're not sharing it, though, it's nothing more than a mental exercise, which is fun. But the whole point is to share it and to share the hope that we have. have, hey, the rocks really do cry out. Yeah, that's right.

God bless the archaeologists. That's right. I love it. Yeah, I am that I am. I am, I am, he said on top of the mountain. That's right. Just like with Moses. I know that feeling, you know, that's how blurry creatures is starting to get for us.

We're just kind of more and more people are coming on the show and dropping this stuff. And it's just, it seems much larger than we set out to. We started talking about Bigfoot, and then it just got weird and weirder and more interesting. And it's funny because when you're describing this, you know, people love the Game of Thrones. If they only knew the Bible was a more epic story than that. No, I was going to say that's the thing. And that's where the title for the book came from is that the story that popped last summer that the players of Dungeons and Dragons got upset because the orcs were always depicted as evil.

And of course, it must be racist because the orcs always have, you know, colored skin, unlike the elves who were always white and they're always good and kindly and cultured and peaceful and blah, blah, blah, blah. Like, no, no, no. If you don't understand Tolkien, you don't understand the orcs. And in Tolkien's world, they were elves who'd been twisted and tortured and turned into inherently evil by the chief god or the dark god Morgoth. Well, all right, we can laugh at the players of Dungeons or Dragons and at Wizards of the Coast for giving in and saying, okay, we'll change the game. So going forward, you can be a good orc if you want to be. Fine. But we Christians have the word of God. We say it's the word of God. We claim. we believe it's the word of God, and yet we don't believe that most of the characters in there, the giants, the gods, the dragons, are actually real. And without all of that, then what is it? It's just a morality story, which for most kids is pretty boring. It's flat.

If you had told me at the age of 12 that, hey, yeah, dragons, dragons, giants, yeah. And oh, by the way, not all of these gods are friendly with each other either. Hey, think about that story in Revelation 19, where the horror battle. on this woman in scarlet is destroyed by the kings that she helps bring to bring to power these gods who rebelled against god aren't all on the same team yeah they're reunited against him but it's like you know democrats trying to get rid of Donald trump I think Bernie saying so yeah oh yeah they're all yeah talk about Game of Thrones this is Game of Thrones on a cosmic scale

well it's my last thought on all this is such an interesting time to be alive as humans because the ancient people either believed in their God or the God, right? There was no age of unbelief, it seems. It seems like... Right. There's no nihilists. There's no nihilus saying, we believe in nothing. Was that a big Loboski reference?

It was, yeah. Very good. Yeah, we believe in nothing. We like our movie quotes on this show. Yeah, we do. Yeah, so me, Sharon and me too. Yeah, oh, the rug, it tied the whole room together. I'm the dude.

It's just a fascinating time, I guess. Sorry to get us off the humor there. But, you know, just, Derek, I have so many friends who are in the spiritual space who've basically kind of just walked away from me because I start talking about the giant stuff. Almost I get the feeling that they don't want, they're like, dude, he's out there, he's gone. But the giants are the origin of much of the spirits in the spirit realm, the spirits who are talking to people and convincing them that they're ancestors or that these are their, you know, the space brothers from Zeta Reticuli.

These are the spirits of those Nephilim. It's all deception. At the end of the day, Solomon, nothing new under the sun. Amen. It's all deceptions that are just repackaged. That's right. Derek, well, thanks for coming on, man. This has been awesome.

I think I want to go to Israel. I'll never been. So I'm going to have to holler you when we're able to at some point because my wife has been before we were married and before we dated. And I want to go. I just, I want to pick your brain again at some point about places I need to go see. But no, thank you for this. I wanted to ask about Jack the Ripper.

There was something on your book about Jack the Ripper and how it fixed into biblical prophecy, but we can hit that another time. Well, Sharon is the one who found that connection, but yes, there was a Stela that was found in the summit of Mount Hermann and the guy who found it later wound up as superintendent of Metropolitan Police

during the Ripper murders. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. Gosh, dude, the world is a weirder place than we get. Charles Warren. Yeah, Lime up. That's crazy. Yeah, Derek, you have the best radio voice

of anyone we've interviewed so far, so we love it. True Pro. Well, you're very kind. Thank you. Well, thank you, Derek. Well, I mean, we'd love to have you back at some point. Yeah. Anytime. I enjoyed it. Thank for all this. I mean, it was a massive history lesson mixed with, you know, the Bible, which is the best way. So appreciate the time. Yeah, I hope our listeners check out what you're doing because I've been checking down. It's phenomenal. So, uh, thank you. Great to have you. Thanks for being here. Well, guys, I really appreciate it. I really enjoyed it. Derek, I wanted to ask on the show, but what kind of timeline are you thinking? What is your, what is your heart? tell you like how much, I mean, obviously nobody knows, but I mean, is this going to happen in our, is this like in the next 10 years some of this stuff's coming down or are? I'd say that's a good possibility, especially if NASA is not quite telling us what they know about asteroid apophis in

2029. Oh. We've done some programs on this on Skywatch TV. In fact, we stumbled under this while we were recording the programs for Tom's book, the Wormwood prophecy. If Wormwood as someone believe is the midpoint of the seven-year tribulation period. And it's supposed to arrive April 13th of 2029, which is during the Feast of Unleavened Bread, I believe. Yeah, just after Passover. A week after Passover, in fact, because the arrival date, a week after Passover coincides with the traditional date for Jews of the walls of Jericho falling.

Is that the Feast of the Trumpets? I know there's a lot of stuff with Feast of Trumpets. No, Feast of Unlemmet. Unleaven bread. Unleavened bread. Okay. But then if you back up three and a half years and this is where we were, during the interview with Tom, I'm thinking, okay, lunar calendar, midpoint, what's three and a half years earlier?

Oh yeah, that's the feast of tabernacles. Well, Tabernacles was the big, or Sukkot was the, or Feast of Booths was the big festival in the fall calendar, during which the Jews had to sacrifice 70 bulls, which was just an incredible amount, no other feast in the Jewish calendar had that much beef. being sacrificed. You know, some where you would sacrifice 70 sheep or lambs or whatever, but not bulls. And it was 13 on day one, 12 on day 2, 11 on day 3, 10 on day 4, et cetera, to equal 70. Well, then we're back to that number 70 again that represents the complete set, not one left out.

The 70 bulls represent, they represent the gods of the nations. Wow. So you've got on the seventh day of the festival in 2025, October 13th, that's day. That's day seven of the Feast of Tabernacles, the day after which the 70 bulls have been sacrificed, representing God saving his people from the gods of the nations, these fallen angels. That's three and a half years earlier. So wouldn't it be fitting if that was the day when God called the church out on that day at the end of the Feast of Tabernacles?

You are now being rescued from the gods of the nations and the seven-year period called the Great Tribulation now begins.