Blurry Creatures - EP: 433 The Neuroscience of Spiritual Warfare with Bizzie Gold

Episode Date: June 9, 2026

Bizzie Gold is a neurobehavioral specialist, author of Your Brain Is a Filthy Liar, the creator of Break Method, and has spent more than a decade studying how the human brain gets hijacked. A kid from the East Coast who fought daily panic attacks for a decade, she once sat under a famous past-life hypnotherapist before being blindsided and ambushed by Jesus in a Boulder church in the middle of a blizzard. Now she is a neurobehavioral specialist, and her thesis is simple, and a little terrifying: most of what you call discernment is really your unhealed trauma talking, and the enemy is counting on it.What follows is a masterclass in how you actually think. Bizzie unpacks the neurocognitive funnel, the five brain patterns, and why your perception, not the facts, is what gets burned into memory. She and the guys tie it all together: spiritual warfare, the authority of Christ, the legal rights we hand the enemy through self-cursing, why getting triggered is like kicking off a scent that spirits can smell across the room, and the gap between instinct, intuition, and true discernment. They go from the Garden of Eden to the nature of time to why the hardest, holiest thing you can do is walk straight into the trigger instead of away from it. If you have ever wondered why one podcast episode can set your whole nervous system on fire, this is the conversation that finally explains it This episode is sponsored by: https://homechef.com/blurry — Get 50% off plus free shipping on your first box & free dessert for life! https://ruffgreens.com — Get a free Jumpstart Trial bag with discount code BLURRY at checkout. - Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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that I've worked with is that they really have to kind of deprogram in order to get themselves to be able to ask questions. As a person who really cares about only speaking the truth, I can't read other people's books. I can't have other teachers because how will I know if I borrowed copied or twisted? But the Bible is the only book that I read the Bible a lot. The car spun out, middle of a blizzard, and he kind of like armed me. And the first words out of his mouth were like, I just, whew, I'd really hate to know. know that if we died right there, you'd be going to hell. The history of our earth is so different from what we can imagine.

The Smithsonian that if they found out about a large skeleton somewhere was to go get it. I'm going to assume at least one person is right, because if one person's right to bust the paradigm, it all goes back to the fallen chair. And the problem with the modern day church, they have a very truncated view of the supernatural. This backdrop that's just pregnant with all kinds of meaning associated with this Mount Herman event. And this guy defects from the kingdom. That's a big deal. We didn't start the fire, Luke.

It's always turning since the world's been burning. It's been burning. Yeah. And for us, it was burning in 2020. He just butchered that whole lyric. You switched burning and turning. I want a great turning. I don't know. Did I butcher it too?

Well, the flat earth just don't like that. You just played along. It was good. It was good. You just played right into it. We didn't start the vibe. Yeah, exactly. See, it's just hype.

You know, you gotta get your guests ready. You got to volley it over, and she's going to slam dunk this. Well, that's not a volleyball term. I'm just butchering this whole intro, Lou. Godly, bro. I'll give you a compliment about your brain, and then it's been misfiring hard right now. You bring the sports knowledge to blurry creatures. I don't.

80s baseball, do you both have that? What is your knowledge base? Mine? Bigfoot, I started with the sad. Esquatch, 80s, nostalgia. I like emo music, Christian emo, particularly. Yeah, just I'm a little bit of a jack of all trades. I like a little bit of everything.

Never really got into one thing specifically. Such a rec major answer, good. Yeah, I was a rec major in college. I used to love to watch you guys. I used to see it all the time out there. I was pre-med. I used to look out of the window in my science class and the rec majors are throwing frisbees out on the lawn.

And I'm like, What is a rec major? 100%. And busy, exactly. Listen. We are an important part. Do you become a PE teacher when you grow up in? No, no.

You like run camps. No, there was a lot of guys that had really cool jobs in the rec department. They would get paid by businesses to take all the employees on vacation because people were just workhorses. They didn't even know how to like, they didn't even know how to vacation. So like this guy would come in and talk to our class. Like, yeah, I'm a specialist. IBM hired me.

I go in. I take all the employees. We go to vacation. I help them have fun. it's like dream job maybe maybe jokes on us or you run or you run like a resort in jamaica and take thousands of japanese people snorkeling you know they had people had these crazy they had these crazy companies and this is not the dream job actually the list of jobs was the coolest of all the jobs like oh i want to be like ag like um ag major and all the jobs ag this sucks and then it was like

i'm like these are awesome jobs so i don't i don't know well i was pretty pretty much bet and here we are. So take that for what it is. All right. This is this is, we have to do another intro. Or is this still, it's still the pre. This is the pre. Yeah, we're just, it's like the preamble to the conversation. We're going to find the end point. It's going to flow. We're going to be great. Okay. I'll try that again. We didn't start the fire, Luke. It was always burning. Since the world's been. Since the days of Mount Herman. Yes. Or since the days of Mount Herman. That's right. We made that joke at our conference. But welcome, welcome to the podcast, busy gold. neurobehavioral specialist and podcaster, and we're going to get into a lot of wonderful topics.

You're in the podcasting space, so you know the wild and weird road that podcasting is. So thank you for coming into Blurray Creatures basement. Hopefully this feels nostalgic to you. It totally does. And I love blurry creatures, so it's fun also for me to be here. Yeah, that's great to have you. We have a lot of mutual friends, and we've done a lot of podcasts in similar veins. And so we can probably go a thousand different directions today.

But I feel like, you know, we've been setting stuff back and forth on Instagram over the years and a lot of, like I said, mutual friends. So welcome blurry creatures. We kick it off. We have to ask you. We know a lot about the big guy. But do you know a lot about the big guy? What are your thoughts on Bigfoot? Well, I live in North Idaho, as you know.

Squatchy. Which is Squatchy, right? It's Squatch country. And we actually have a Sasquatch figure hidden in our trees on our driveway. There you go. You put it there? Aside my husband did. He likes it to scare people on the way up the driveway.

Because it's like hidden where you can't, if you don't know that it's there, you could miss it. But then it catches the light just right that I'm sure a lot of people jump in their seats. I've never had a personal experience with Bigfoot. But since the time I was young, there's always been an. internal knowing that a lot of these creatures are real. So for me, I definitely am not a, I'm not a Bigfoot denier. I'll say that, but I've never had a personal experience myself. I do find it interesting.

I love all the episodes on Bigfoot. Yeah. You're not an enthusiast like Nathan here. I am an enthusiast. I get enthusiastic about your enthusiasm. Yes. You make me like Bigfoot. This is where I'm at.

This is how I've been for the last six years. It's just like, I'm pumped that you're pumped. Yeah. But I used to love to watch the shows where they never find Bigfoot. There was a comedian. It's called Never Finding Bigfoot. He was on Rogan and he goes, he had hit a bit and he goes, you know, I was at a party and I met a Bigfoot enthusiast. And I was excited.

I'm a Bigfoot enthusiast, enthusiast. That's how I would describe myself at this point. Yeah, I mean, it's, that's kind of where I was, where the nerds in the Bigfoot realm were so interesting to me because I was like, these guys are really into this. There's something more here. You don't get that nerdy into a subject if it's all fake. And, you know, over the years, obviously the conversation evolved, we started talking about, covered up ancient history, conspiracy theories that are just off the walls. But creatures, this seems to be like a good place, a landing place, you know, weird, whether it's angelic encounters or demons or, you know, dog man, the winda go. I mean, it seems like there's some sort of, when it material world meets the spiritual world.

that seems to be a good conversation. So that's why, you know, we started with the big guy, but I'm sure we can go a lot of different directions with your story. Where do you want to start today? And, you know, what do you feel, where do you feel led? I think it's a great idea to start maybe from the time I was a really little kid. I knew God was real. And I didn't have that programmed into me from the outside in.

There was just something in me where I just, I knew it. I knew that relationship. I knew God's voice. I knew to press into God's voice. But I grew up in a family that was very culturally Jewish. So we followed the high holidays and my mom would, you know, go to school and do all the things that she was supposed to do to, you know, look like a good Jew at school. But there were some things that stood out because no one was ever really talking about God, right? It was like, here's what we are.

But there was never like, like, who is God? What is God? how do you talk to God? Would you talk to God? And my mom would read me this bedtime book that had multiple pages that was just, you know, how you get ready for bed. Like you brush your teeth, just little things to help the little kid get on board with the bedtime routine. But she would always skip this one page where the little girl was kneeling down what looks like to do the Lord's prayer before she went to bed. She'd always skip this page. And I was a really observant little kid. So I would watch her skip this page over and over and over again. And finally I'm like,

Mom, why do you always skip that page? Obviously, I had to be old enough to talk. I think at this point I was probably around three. And no beat whatsoever because God's not real. And I remember that just hitting me like a ton of bricks because what it did is it made me completely lose trust in my mom. And I think I already didn't trust her for a variety of reasons. But when that happened, I remember just internally saying,

God, I know you're real. Just because she said that doesn't. mean that I believe that by proxy. And it actually made me double down on that relationship. If she was going to keep that from me, it almost incited this curiosity in me where I was like, okay, if you're telling me that's not real, and I feel like there's this kernel of truth here, I'm going to wildly pursue this relationship. And I was a really curious kid anyways, and I felt really empowered and safe to ask a lot of questions. And when I see a lot of clients now who were raised Christian, Sadly, sometimes there can be parenting inputs that make you not feel safe to ask questions.

Like, we don't talk about that here. You don't want to be a heretic. So I'm really grateful that in my family, the very opposite was true. My dad's policy essentially was like, you can ask any question, but it better be a damn good question. And you better be ready to actually go head to head with somebody who's really smart. And if you got yourself into a place in your argument where he didn't feel like you were actually giving a good argument anymore, or he'd call you a simpleton and walk away. So I kind of was like always ready to have some of these more critical conversations with my dad.

So I think that did help me on the journey that God was eventually going to take me because I've just that ability to be inquisitive and curious without feeling shut down or ashamed. I think God can use that in really big ways. And it's one of the things that does make me most sad about a lot of the Christian clients that I've worked with is that they really have to kind of deprogram in order to get themselves to be able to ask questions. Example would be, I can't even tell you how many clients I've sent to blurry creatures. And usually what I get is, I mean, I'm going to watch this, but I don't think my wife can handle this. Like my wife, I'm afraid to show it to my wife, she's going to judge me.

So this kind of like, she's going to judge me. I can't even ask questions. I can't even share this podcast. Like, it's contraband, you know? Our podcast is contraband, Lou. It's like prohibition. We're just dropping off bottles of blurry at the place. door.

Yeah, and just be like, Pse, how are, going to share the good word of blurry with him. Yeah. Yeah.

It's paranormal prohibition. Is that what you say? I like that to the next level. Life is busy. It's not

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it, it was like, wow, this is a lot easier. And it comes with every single thing you need to make the meal. And for someone who's a little ADD, a little bit spaz, a little bit in the blurry verse, this is really simple, right? Simple. Take the stress out of your way. week and have Home Chef show up on your porch. And for limited time, Home Chef is offering our listeners 50% off and free shipping for your first box plus free dessert for life. Go to HomeCheft.com slash blurry. That's HomeCheft.com slash blurry for 50% off your first box and free dessert for life, Home Chef.com slash blurry. Must be an active subscriber to receive free dessert. I think it's why our podcast has found Elaine because you ask questions here. And

that's fine. There's nothing wrong with that. I mean, even asking the wrong question is controversial. So we were tracking with you on that. So you grow up. You have an, it's interesting to be in a family, though, that believes in God, but that's sort of still like a little bit on the table. So I think that's what's so interesting about Judaism and a lot of people don't know this, is that a lot of people that even would self-describe as Jewish, they are more culturally Jewish. So they're upholding the identity of being Jewish because often through family stories from grandparents, especially post-Holocast, there's this idea like, it's your job to carry the torch of Judaism. And if you don't identify as a Jew culturally, then kind of our light's going to go out.

In fact, when my grandmother, she went into a surgery, I think she knew she was going to die. but she called me before she went to surgery. And literally the last word she said to me, just make sure you raise your daughter Jewish because she knew it was pregnant. I'm like, okay, no problem. So there's this kind of like guilt, shame, like don't let the light of Judaism go out.

But behind all that, there isn't really, for many people, a concrete belief in God. There isn't really some sort of concrete. This is what we believe about heaven or hell. In fact, I think for many Jews, it's something more like this. We don't know what happens when you die.

So be a good person because if you, you know, basically bring, they call them mitzvahs. If you do good acts to help people, it increases your chances that if there is something, you'll go to whatever that place may be. But it's very open and general. And in Judaism as a whole, if you track back all the way to First Temple Judaism, a lot of the rabbinical order is built around essentially constructive arguments, right? Like a lot of what you see, for example, in the Talmud is discourse, people going back and forth and arguing about what the interpretation of this is.

So Judaism in and of itself is a very argumentative, non-solidified religious perspective. And I think that has carried over in the generations. And of course, that doesn't apply to people that are Orthodox or Hasidic. So like people that you see with the curls and stuff, they're, you know, by being orthodox or by being Hasidic, there's a lot more concrete. Like, this is exactly what we believe with little flexibility. But Jews in general, it's not really spiritual.

And I think that was something that I just always knew. I knew what my spiritual experience was. And I knew that I could have this very clear back and forth conversation with God. So to hear that's not real, you know, I think for some kids, if you really trust your parents, the byproduct of that is you turn on yourself. Well, if I trust them and they say God's not real, then I must be wrong. But because I'd already experienced a significant amount of trauma and, let's say, dishonest behavior in my early childhood, thankfully, by the grace of God, I didn't trust them already. So when they said this, all it did was compound and send me on this mission to try to figure out, like, who is God and what actually is the truth here. It reminds me a little bit we're talking about like in the South, and we're in South here, there is a cultural Christianity here where people call themselves Christians, but maybe they go to church on Easter and maybe on Christmas, they would tell you that, but I would probably

bless your heart. Yeah, I mean, I would guess it's more of a cultural thing. It's like we do this on the days that we do this. And yeah, we say we're Christians, but there's, you know, I'm not, you don't want to judge anyone's heart, but I would say by and large, probably there's not much more than other being culturally. But I think what you're saying is it's harder to become a Christian as a Jew than somebody like in the South who's like, oh, I'm actually going to become a Christian versus like I have to kind of go against my whole, right? Like my bloodline. Yes.

Well, and there's so much more to it because in Judaism, as much as I don't want to admit this, in Judaism, there is both implicit and explicit. shame associated with believing in Jesus. Yeah. So I grew up on the East Coast in a very academically oriented family where even like as early as third grade, it was like, what Ivy League school are you going to go to? You know, and like those would be the conversations that you have. And it was very much taught to us that believing in Jesus was on the same level as being an adult who believes in Santa Claus and that you could not be a serious intellectual if you

believed in Jesus. So I would just be surrounded by this all the time. watching people mock Christians, mock anyone that position themselves as a believer. So I took some of that on while also being able to maintain, I don't know what all of that is. I just, I know God's voice. So to me, it was almost this, I could separate out all of the other religious pieces and I didn't come to know Jesus until I was 19, but I knew God the Father. And that was very strong for me throughout my life. You were contrarian at a young age kind of.

Yes. I was absolutely. Absolutely. I was born to be contrarian. Rebellious. You say that, I go this way. It's required kind of for a lot of people that are in a stronghold where you have to push through and push through and to actually find Jesus. I think a lot of people have a harder road and a lot more barriers. And I was lucky because I actually didn't try to find Jesus. Jesus found me, which, you know, I sometimes, I feel guilty sometimes when I say that because I know how many people have been seeking and searching in the. they want to have that encounter. So part of me feels guilty that without trying per se, in fact, probably pushing against it at that age, Jesus still came to me. When I was nine years old, what seemed completely out of the blue, there are other things that I'm sure we'll get into in this podcast that led to trauma that I think caused these panic attacks. But suddenly in age nine,

one night I started having really bad panic attacks. And they persisted until I was 19. So it'd be like all day, every day. Really? Full-blown hyperventilation. I'd lose my sight. I'd lose my hearing. It'd start to hear really loud ringing. And my whole body would just shut down.

And it really changed the way I was able to function in my life. Because then you start to have panic attacks because you're anticipating having a panic attack, right? So it's like this whole washing machine system just keeps going over and over again. And I was a really confident, self-assured little kid. And then all of a sudden I became this really fearful, anxious kid that, it was like really shut down. I was still doing what I needed to do with, I was a high level athlete. So I was able to compartmentalize enough to pull that off. But whenever I started to think about my future, then I'd have to factor in, well, I have to pick something that I'm able to

manage my panic attacks. They kind of became my whole identity. And by the time I got to college, I started dating somebody that year that was a Christian. I'd never had any experience of even Christian people, really, like people that really actively believe, not just said that they were Christian. And we almost got into a car accident. We spun out on the road. I was living in Colorado at the time. The car spun out, middle of a blizzard, and he kind of like arm barred me. And, you know, I was either, I think I was 18, maybe 19. I was like right in that little range. I was a freshman. And arm barred me. And the first words out of his mouth were like, oh, I just, who, I'd really hate to know that if we died right there, you'd be going to hell. And I literally was like, what?

Did you just say to me? So not only did I say, what did you just say to me? But the first words out of my mouth after that were, you can't tell me you don't believe in aliens. Because at this point, it was like, nothing was clear to me that these things were true. I just didn't know how to reconcile it all together. Right. So it was like, I had these little compartments like, I know this is true. I know this is true. But I couldn't yet figure out how to like overlap all of them, which of course is one of the reasons that I love blurry creatures, because I feel like you guys weave those things together in a really profound, accessible way.

So, of course, at that point, I'm like, I don't even think I can be around this person anymore. First of all, I can't believe you think I would go to hell. But then it kind of planted this seed, like, do I even believe in that? And I value this person, I think they're smart. How could a person that I think is smart believe this? So it kind of planted this seed of like, huh. So I keep going on with my life.

his family keeps inviting me to church and I'm like, no, that's never going to happen. It's super judgy, definitely rebellious. And one day, I'm driving in a blizzard and I start having a panic attack. And I pull over my car because at this point, it's like, it doesn't matter. Windshield wipers on high. I can't see anything. I'm hyperventilating. I'm like, this is not safe.

So I pull over and I just so happened to have pulled over in front of a church called Cornerstone church. This was in Boulder, Colorado. So Pastor Jean Binder, if you're listening to this, which I doubt you are. helped save my life, buddy. So I pull over on the side of the road and I'd never been in church before my whole life. And I remember even in this moment of need looking at this church like, can I do it? I'm like trying to hype myself up.

Okay, I'm going to go in. I'm just going to go right to the bathroom. I'm going to splash some water in my face and we're going to pull it together. You know, Luke, we're always talking about the bluriest creatures out there. But what about the most loyal creature, our dogs? And I know everyone out there who has a dog, loves their dog like another child. And you've got to take care of that dog. And Rough Greens is here to help you.

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Go to roughgreens.com and use the discount code blurry. That's RUFFF Greens.com discount code blurry. Rough creams makes any dog food better. I go in, the doors open. And even in my intern of monologue, I'm like, Churches are always open, right? Like, the doors are going to be open. So I opened the door, okay, the doors are open, walk back, go to the bathroom, splash some water on my face, come back and, you know, this little little old man, beard, glasses, baldhead is like, hey, how are you doing?

I'm like, I'm all right. He's like, are you from New York? I was like, yeah, he's like, oh, me too. He's like, are you Jewish? I was like, yeah, I'm kind of looking around the church, like, is this a practical joke? And he's like, yeah, me too. And I was like, that doesn't make any sense. You're the pastor, right? And he's like, yeah, I'm the pastor. I was raised Jewish in New York, just like you. He's like, you want to come into my office?

We can have a conversation. And I was like, all right. So I sat down in his office and he invited me, ask any question that's on your heart. And I was like, anything? He's like, literally anything. And we started to have this critical discourse dialogue back and forth. And I left feeling like, wow, that was awesome. not only could I ask really hard questions, but he was willing to go there with me. He wasn't

over-emotional about it. He understood where I came from, so he was really good at relating it back to things, like, kind of pins that had already dropped for me to put it all together. And he started to walk me through how all of the primary festivals and high holidays in Judaism kind of align with the prophecy of Jesus. So that was how he went at it in the beginning. And he kept inviting me, you know, just come back and have lunch with me. So I'd just keep going and have a lunch with him. And then finally one day, he's like, you know, you should come to church on Sunday. And I remember in that moment being like, I still don't know if I can do that. Yeah. And I finally did. Then I started going to Bible study and got really into it. Like it was the first time that I

started to just feel peace come over me. But I hadn't yet really given my life to Jesus. And one day I'm on an airplane and I start having a panic attack while I'm on the plane, which is to me like worst case scenario. I'd run through this scenario multiple times and I'm like this is literally what nightmares are made of. So this starts to happen and I put my forehead on the trade table. I just kind of lean forward and I did this like, Jesus, if you're real, if you can just get rid of my panic attacks, I will give my life to you and I will never look back. Like this thing has plagued me for 10 years every day. Like just please, if you're real, just take this away from me and I will give my life to you. I'm turning 41 in a couple weeks. I've had this many panic attacks since that

moment. That's amazing. So for people who have ever had panic attacks, it can literally, it takes over your whole life. I can't explain that enough. It ruined my life for 10 years. So to in one transaction spiritually be free, that's a miracle. Yeah. It's a full blown miracle. Yeah. Wow. And from that point forward. My life was forever changed. And I do think some people that are listening, that doesn't mean that it was easy. That doesn't mean that I didn't have seasons of turning away. Although I will say one of my favorite parts of the nature of God is that even sometimes when I thought I was pulling a thread and possibly disproving something, what I have found every time is no matter how deep you go, you always land back at an even more deep profound truth of who God is. So even when I

thought I was turning away, I was going right back to just a deeper level. And from where I sit now, a lot of those moments of letting my curiosity take me into potentially some dark places, I think God often uses that for select people who can handle being in those dark places without being overtaken by the darkness because there are things in there which obviously you guys interview people about this all the time on this podcast there are pieces of information there's scrolls in those dark places that god's trying to get people to pick up and bring together in a way that makes sense to people because i think there's so much fracturing in the body of christ and then people just start arguing with each other right think about it to me if you understand what's happening

in our world geopolitically, even for things like aliens and like exopolitics, there is no better way to understand and piece it all together than the Bible. Full stop. The Bible makes everything makes sense. I would argue you add the book of Enoch in there. Things make even more sense, right? I think that was removed for a very specific reason. The context helps the Bible make more sense. So much more sense. And there's a lots of things that do. Yeah, I think that we as Christians often say, all things work together for good. And the only benefit is because, oh, I just had to endure something hard.

It's like, no, you learned tricks of the trade. Yes. You learned how the enemy operates. You were like espionage out there. Like, you know, you're- I love that. You're collecting a set of skills that you're going to use later in your life.

All right, Liam Neeson. Yeah. Yeah. And there's also like testing times too. It takes a long time for, you know, 40 is a number of completion. As a lot of people have said to us, it's like,

it takes time to learn these things. And I think, and for those listeners, what panic attack is, a lot of people will call 911 the first time they have a panic attack. You think you're having a full bone heart attack. Yeah, I've had it. Yeah.

Feels like, yeah, I've had a season. It feels like someone's pouring hot lava behind your chest plate, if you will, and it's suffocating. Yeah. And you just, you want to get out of wherever you are, like curl up into a fetal position somewhere,

away from everyone. And it's, you know, I think a good, chunk of the population's never had one and they don't know how to relate to that. Yeah, just regular anxiety is not the same. So just that like feeling of like slightly heart racing, this is, it's different. And one of the things that's interesting about it and this kind of goes into a lot of the work that I do in mental health around self-deception is no matter how many times you've had a panic attack and you know, you've got all the evidence, this is not a

heart attack. Every time your brain was like, but this time, this time, it's really hard. heart attack. Those other 2,000 times that this happened, that wasn't. You can't rationalize, but this one, you can't be rationalize your way out of it. You're like, yeah, like the idea of impending doom and you're like, there's no impending doom, I'm okay, it doesn't matter. Your body can't really talk yourself out of it. You can't rationalize your way out of it. Not in the moment. Once you're, once you're deep in it, it's way too hard. I'm okay. I'm not dying. When did you first hear about Jesus though? When did that enter your, only from those conversations with that pastor once I've found my way to that church. So to me, that divine appointment

of being led to the church and then it just so happens to have been a Jew that became a pastor. Like to me, the probability of that being a coincidence is probably zero percent. And having a panic attack right in front of the said church. And having a panic attack in front of a church when I've ever been in the church. So to me, that was kind of the first divine appointment, but really that whole year of my life around 19. Yeah. There was so many different things that I think God was using simultaneously, one of which that same year I became one of the first students of Dolores Cannon. And I don't know, has Dolores Cannon's work ever come up on your show before? I don't think so. I don't think so. She's passed away. She was a very famous hypnotherapist and her whole thing was past life regression therapy. So I bring this up because certainly from where I said today, I don't believe in past lives. But in that year, this is one of those potential turning away moments where really I think God was trying to give me access to things that I could make sense of later. Because I do think sometimes it's God's will for you to be allowed to go into places that really are the dominion of the dark kingdom

so that you can kind of map them, right? I love how you're saying it's like espionage. It really is spiritual espionage. I was brought into this place not because I was there to intentionally do harm to her or anything like that. Because at that time, I really had a genuine openness and wanted to learn. So the way I found my way to Dolores was also one of these divine appointments where this whole year, all these weird things kept happening to me that were unexplainable. Yeah. So this was shortly after the Cornerstone Church experience.

I was walking on the Pearl Street Mall in Boulder. And I should emphasize, prior to this, all I wanted to do was go to the Olympics for skiing. And I had had a career-ending knee injury shortly before all of this where everything that I thought I was going to do just came crumbling down at once. So I was also in kind of this as dark night of souls you can have at 19, you know, but I think for somebody that had really put all their eggs in that basket to be like, well, what's my, what's my backup plan? I don't have thought of a backup plan. So I was also just in this really vulnerable kind of dark place where I was trying to figure out who am I, what am I even going to do with myself. So I'm walking down the Pearl

Street Mall and one day this old woman with long gray hair whose name I now know is Elizabeth, she started chasing after me. And at first, you know, I don't know if anyone's ever been to the Pearl Street Mall, but at that time especially, like, there were lots of weirdos. So having somebody run after you was like, am I going to get stabbed or are you a hippie? Like, you know, I was just kind of like reasonably on guard. Yeah. And she comes over and she says, I just have to tell you, you're going to be Dolores Cannon's

most famous student. And I was like, I don't know who that is. So what? Yeah. And at that point, I had never really had any experience with prophetically anointed people. So I was very skeptical at that point in my life. So I think I was really having a hard time even receiving what she was telling me. But she was like, there's this bookstore right there.

It's called the Lighthouse Bookstore. She's got tons of books. You need to go look at it. So I was like, okay, like, thanks. So I go to this bookstore because at this point, my curiosity is because she had dropped enough words of knowledge about me that I was like, that was really weird. Yeah. So I go to this bookstore and I look at all these books.

And at this point in my life and frankly still today, I really don't like reading that much. I know that sounds really ignorant, but I just don't. I don't like it. I'd much rather go to God and just sit in like prayer and meditation for four hours than read a book usually. So I grab these books and they're like over a thousand pages each. Like so they're like this, you know. And I feel a bit silly saying that because my book is also that long. You still have to read the clip.

You still have to read the clip. I've returned the favor through my own book, which could double as a kettlebell in case you needed to have like a kettlebell. The kids don't know about Cliffs Notes these days. But you still have to read them. You still have to read them. Yeah. So I grab this book. So I feel like it's like pushing on all these pain points for me.

And I'm like, oh, like, do I really want to follow through on this? These books are so long. So I grab this one book called the Convaluted Universe. And I go home, I start reading it. And like I said, not an avid reader. But you wrote a book. I did write a book eventually. 20 years later.

I don't think that you're not a student of information. It's just the way that you learn. Yeah. The way that I learn, it's like, it feels like reading is so slow. So slow. Give it to me faster. I do like audiobooks where I can put it on like 1.5 or 2 times speed.

That really upsets people when they hear that in my car. They're like, how could you listen? Because if it's too slow. Just want to move with the information. I think what it is is certain people, maybe a little ADHD. If it's too slow, then you space out. So then you're constantly reading the same information over and over again. You're like, why I didn't even remember I just read for five pages?

What's going on? You just described my whole middle school career. Yeah, me too. So I started reading this book, but lo and behold, I cannot put it down. So for whatever reason, in this particular instance, all of a sudden, all of those previous issues, gone. I stayed up all night, finish the whole thing, just like powered through the whole thing. And I was just like, whoa, talk about a blurry book. This is like as blurry a book as it gets.

And again, I'm saying this, not that she was speaking the truth. I do think that she was in a lot of deception and a lot of spirits are able to act through people in hypnotic sessions. So for context, Dolores Cannon cataloged what was coming through in sessions. And basically, if multiple clients would confirm the same sort of story, let's say, about Atlantis or about, you know, something off planet or even about Jesus, she has a whole book about Jesus. Then she would publish it. So at this point, I'm like reading through this. And so many of these things had already, I'd already thought about them. I was already piecing some things together.

So to me it felt like, wow, someone else is finally talking about the things that I've just always known in my spirit were true. So it just kind of started this fire for me. And remember, that woman told me you're going to be her most famous students. So I go on her website, I'm like, oh my God, I have to like learn from her. She doesn't teach people. And I'm like, well, this is ridiculous. So this is probably like 1999, 2000.

and I add myself to her email list, you know, back then you like hope you're going to get an email, not you get bombarded with 200. When's the newsletter coming? When's my newsletter? Like, is she going to launch something? It was like one week later. She launches her first ever teaching program with an application process. Wow.

And remember, I still have this kind of skeptical, slight rebellious spirit. So I kind of don't do the application exactly as she's asking. And I give it this kind of like, well, you know, you. you're going to basically refer to the council of who you're going to pick. So like I know I'm already in. I ended up going changed, changed my life. But I think big picture,

what ended up happening for me is from doing this work, I had so many interactions with a person's subconscious. Because her whole process is, of course, to get you through past lives. And if you're listening to the audio, I don't believe in past lives. And I'm giving the air quotes. I don't think that's what they actually are.

Yeah. I think you and I were talking about it before the show. from where I sit now after many years of working with people like this, I think it's much more likely that our DNA holds bio-information and there are certain people that may be more easily able to access the memories of their previous generations from their actual DNA. So think about it. Think about it like a folder that you could click. Epigenetics. Epigenetics, right? So think about, I don't know if you guys are like me, but sometimes to clean up my desktop, I make a cleanup folder. So then I have like a folder and a folder.

folder and a folder. And it's just like all my mess in all the rest of my mess. You have a messy desktop? Yes, I do. And it's like, it's like a Russian doll. That gives me anxiety. Yes. Okay. Well, mine is like that, but probably times 100. So if you think about it like that, it's like all of the, all of this bio information that's like folders within a folder within a folder. And some people are more easily able to access that. Does that mean that that was them? Absolutely not. They're just able to access it somehow. I think some people, have more of a prophetic anointing or leaning that way and that allows them to access it. Sometimes, and I know this might sound a little judgy, but sometimes if people aren't really

acutely intellectual and really aware and they're kind of more, in the spiritual community, there's a lot of conversation about how maybe there are some sort of NPC people in the world. I don't know if anyone's ever gone through that. I've actually heard some pretty cool teachings about this understanding kind of like who has the spirit of God versus who possibly doesn't, especially when you start to consider some of the nephalum contamination. So think about it this way. Sometimes if someone fits more into that potentially NPC character sort of model. Would they more like a hybrid busy? Is that what you're kind of saying? Like someone who... Either more like a hybrid, but maybe with this, it's almost more

like the person doesn't have such a big personality. And it's almost like their spirit isn't really there. So in a way, they're able to access these things more because there isn't a dominant spirit or person controlling it. Because I've seen people that are just kind of like, like, oh, whatever, like, I'll try that, you know, just kind of like, whatever. And it's like, they go under hypnosis in like one second where someone that really wants it, they're in too much of a hyper arousal state emotionally, so then they can't drop in. So sometimes these people that Dolores would call them meat and potatoes, people, they're just like a little simple. Yeah.

You know, sometimes those people are really able to access those things. I think because there's no intellect interfering with the process. Like, there isn't something, for a lot of us, if you were trying to put somebody into an hypnotic state, which I do not recommend to be super clear. I think it gives, it opens up doors and portals for demons and spirits to come through. So don't do that. But let's say that you did or you, you had done that in the past. There are certain people where if you are consciously aware, let's say of what's happening in the room, like I have a really hard time not hearing small sounds around me. So if your brain is aware of that and you have high level situational awareness,

it's nearly impossible to hypnotize you because your brain's never fully detaching from your external world. But if somebody's already reasonably checked out and they don't have high situational awareness, you can put them under like that, you know, because they just like a low bar. It's just a low, yeah, low bar. So I think some people are able to access through more prophetic gifting and then others, it's kind of more this NPC like they're just not that present and aware anyways, so it's just easier to access it. But I think big picture, we all have that there and hypothetically, I think it's important to mention there's God's perfect will and God's permissible will, right? So example would be if I look back at my life, there are times to me that

it's clear I'm in his perfect will. And then there are times that he's been like, all right, like, I'm going to cover you, but proceed with caution, you know? So if I think about that, there's usually these markers when I kind of click back on. I don't know if this has ever happened to you. Do you ever have deja vu? Yes. Okay. So I have a theory about deja vu, which is when you do have deja vu, it is, I think, God giving you a reminder that you've just locked back on to his perfect will because it essentially closes a loop of time. Right. So God exists outside of time.

And while we experience time unfold chronologically, that's not really how it works. Right. So God's the master strategist. He's, you know, with perfect and permissible. It means that there have to be backup plans on backup plans on backup plans. Oh, yeah. We talked about this as in First Samuel. I actually went through this in my Bible study, Nate, because we talked about this is the Heiser, the famous Heiser.

thing about God forenew something that didn't occur, right? It was David saying is, you know, is all going to surround the city. And if he comes down, what they hand me over? And the God says, yep, they will and he will. And David takes off. So none of those things actually happen. But there's these timelines that exist that God is four news. It just don't, as foreknown, but don't actually, which is really hard for us. As you say, like we've, we've had time conversations here. And it's hard because time unfolds for us, as you say chronologically, it's linear, it's moving forward in our perception. And yeah, God is the alpha and the omega.

He sits at both ends. And so it's more of a, people talk about this tower idea. That's just on the tower overlooking the entirety of time. But yeah, I think what we were to, just to bring it up to say, hey, we've talked about this idea with Dr. Michael Heiser, most recently Troy Brewer, we were talking about the timeline stuff. Oh, Troy's awesome. Yeah.

And it was crazy. You talk about that memories. I wanted to look this up because I'd heard this before, but in a program of DNA, you can store 455 million terabytes of information. That's 455 exabytes per gram of DNA. So, I mean, obviously DNA is tiny, but I don't know how much you have in your body. It's another question we could Google here. But understanding then that like our DNA has this capacity for storage. Yeah.

On a level that we can't even really maybe even comprehend. I mean, we kick that business every day with people who have to go back and heal trauma from previous. stuff that's like curses and generational stuff we're like Michael Miller and the in the Scottish curse contracts that people made with the dark the darkness and like oh my great grandfather was this abusive horrible person who was you know ex secret societies blah blah blah and did all these horrible things and and then people get set free from that generations later and everyone goes oh that's that's that's woo-woo that's weird but we talk about it a lot The whole field of epigenetics does prove exactly what the Old Testament describes about sin,

iniquity, and transgression. Yeah. And I had this in one of my lectures years ago. Listen, ancient giants, question it. Government coverouts, definitely question it. But paying $100 for a phone, that's fine. No one questions. What's the conspiracy theory here?

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That's mintmobile.com slash blurry. Cut your Wiler's bill to 15 bucks a month at Mintmobile.com slash Blurie. that's it. There's no catch. Forty-five dollar upfront payment required equivalent to $15 per month. New customers on first three-month plan only. Speed slower above 40 gigabytes on unlimited plan. Additional taxes, fees, and restrictions apply. So you meant mobile for details. One of the things that I thought was the most profound is I don't remember which book it's in, but it's very early Old Testament. God very specifically outlines that it can affect between three and four generations. So it's not definitively not four generations and not three, but

this oscillation between three and four. Wow. The Bible's like spot on. Spot on. Yeah. Then years later, obviously, many, many years later, we find that it is between three and four generations. And it's not one.

It's not four. It's not three. It's between three and four. And there is this sort of oscillation. And that was in the Old Testament, thousands of years ago. The whole thing you just said, remind me of the Monty Python. When he's counting to three for the hand grenade. And he's like, one, two, four.

He's like, three, sir. It's not, anyway. Do you think that has anything to do with why spirits seem to linger in that three or four generations behind? Like you see ghosts that are like three generations? Victorian. Yeah. I think it absolutely can be. One of the things that I think is interesting.

So going back to this conversation around time, right? If time, if all time exists all the time. And one of the best ways that I like to have students visualize. this is if you think about it, kind of draw a circle for yourself where on the left side, if you put one dot is Genesis, right? So kind of go from Genesis dot halfway, maybe three quarters of the way, and then you put the crucifixion, and then you kind of back revelation up right next to Genesis. Really, time is actually built that way, because we kind of, we know how it's starting, we know how it ends. The prophets of the Old Testament are able to kind of go back and forth

between different points, right? So God's allowing them to leave their timeline, carry information from the future back to the present, because that's essentially what prophecy is, right? Is these people being able to momentarily not be time bound, at least in their consciousness and how they're communicating with the Lord, and they're able to bring that information back and put it into a physical document, right? So when we think about something like this, if all time exists all the time, and this is where I feel like the audience needs to somewhat understand dimensions as well. And I'm assuming you guys have had conversations about dimensions. Have you gone into string theory and kind of what happens as you move up the dimensions?

Let's do it. Because I think because we've talked a lot about dimensionality and that being a scientific way to explain what the Bible talks about between first heaven, second heaven, third heaven, these ideas of realms. It's like semantically realms and dimensions can be equal, right? You have this, it's just language. But the way the Bible understand or it talks about this as an idea of realms or heavens well you have to to understand sightings with blurry creatures because it seems to bend reality or portals and so there's some people that stay in like a very scientific explanation of something like a Sasquatch and then there's a whole other camp that goes but it did things beyond what any animal could do so then the dimension

talk came early on into our show what are dimensions uh you UFO's going in and out of dimensions. Bigfoot's phasing it out of dimension. It's, it's great on one hand to explain something complex, but it's also highly frustrating because it's like, well, what the heck is a dimension? You just poof and you're gone, like, but it still seems to be there. We just can't perceive it. It almost feels more like a frequency than it does a dimension, the way that my mind puts it together.

Like it's just, it's there, but it's not, I can't see it. That makes sense? It's vibrated at two high of a level, or it's a color. or you can't see. It's just a little too emo. So I think we can make it really tangible for people. Do it. So this guy, he exists in the third dimension, right?

Like I can touch him. I can kind of jiggle him around. He is a three-dimensional. This one, particularly. He is a three-dimensional being, right? This is a phone. This is a microphone. We know that these things exist physically.

Yeah. When we go up to the fourth dimension, we know that the fourth dimension is time. Okay, so we experience time chronologically. Right? I'm turning 41. last year, I was 39 turning 40, right? So we experience time and fold chronologically,

but when we understand time, but more specifically the space time continuum, I want everyone to imagine the Earth, right? And I know that, you know, there's probably a blend of firmament people versus globe people. So just for now, imagine a globe earth, okay? I'm going to take everybody back to math for a moment.

An X, Y, axis looks like this, right? So you've got your X and your Y axis. Now put graph paper over that back when you used to kind of do all of your little, like, graphing algebraic equations and stuff like that, right? So I want you now to take the globe earth and you're going to rest it on that graph paper, right? The graph paper itself is going to bend around the object, right? It's not just, you know, if you put something that has weight to it on top of this piece of graph paper, it's not just going to stay there perfectly, right?

The paper is going to try to move around it. That is how Albert Einstein visualized the spacetime continuum. So whatever has mass, the mass of that object is going to essentially bend time. And the way that time bends will change our perception of how time unfolds. So I'm assuming you guys have seen interstellar. Oh, yeah. Right? The whole like time dilation once they leave, the guy comes back.

He's been gone for 20 years. But for them, it's been like an hour, right? Well, I also think of the movie, Arrival. You know, that is my favorite movie. The Circle. Maybe ever. Yeah, I love that movie. Because it's all about time, really.

And the way they communicate is the circle. anyway. So Bill and Ted. Bill is Ted. That one's also great. He's thinking Tombstone. He's like, where's the time? That's back to the future three. We go back to the old west. That's what we're know next. No, I agree. Those two movies have like a very great way of explaining that human mind has a really hard time getting.

Well, that's like when you go different to like they talk about on the moon. Like how long, how much do you weigh? And if you go to, if you were on Mars, like how long is a year? Time operates differently there because of mass and gravity. Yeah, mass and gravity. So it's important for us to understand this relationship between mass and gravity when it comes to us experience time-boundedness. Before I go higher, I want to bring everybody back to the Garden of Eden. Creed higher?

Creed higher? Dude, we can't go that high. I've been sick for the last few weeks. I was going to try to hit that note. Okay. I'm not going to make it. You do it. We'll let you do it at the end.

Shout out of Scott stuff. I could do that. Do you take me. Yeah, no, that was good. Do it, do it. I'm sexy from the edge right now. I haven't seen on the podcast, yeah. I have to save that for like episode 500. 500. Okay, I'll be waiting for that. We'll bring you back and we'll do a little musical. So one thing I want to bring up about the relationship between mass and our experience of time, go back to when you were a little kid. Yeah. Okay. Are we there yet? Are we there that? And your parents are like, for the love of all things holy, say that to me zero more times. Like I will snap.

But for a little kid, the 20 minutes might actually feel like two hours. And for an adult, because you are actually physically bigger, your mass is bigger, you experience time differently as we get older, right? Time to me passes by really quickly. A year could go by in like the blink of an eye for me in a way that's kind of frankly sad. It is. Is it also prospective a little bit busy? Like where you, because you've lived another year or another 12 months or another 52 weeks,

it becomes, the segment becomes a much smaller part of your overall life. And so the perception is that it becomes much faster. Because I remember that like a 30 minute TV show when you're a kid was like, yes, this feels like a really long show. And now you're like, I spaced out and missed the last 30 minutes of 48 hours or whatever, right? I mean, whatever you're watching. Yeah, church always felt long to me, like very long. Church can still feel long for me.

Like in a good way. Well, I think our church does worship for like what feels. like two hours in a good way. I think this is a good conversation because oftentimes people think that these like UFOs have this sphere inside or something that bends, it creates mass and then creates gravity. Yeah, gravity, which creates gravity and then you're, you're not saying that it disappears or goes, I don't know, it's a different type of travel.

Yeah, it's somehow circumventing what appear to be the laws of our physics because they do not do not seem to be bound by time the way that we do because they're somehow bypassing the spacetime continuum thing. Like the TIPTAC video, it's like these things are doing things that we can't, like the physics don't apply. You can't put a human in there because it turned applesauce. It almost feels like the ship weighs as much as an earth and then it just does whatever. It's just, it can bend.

It weighs as much as a piece of wood. A duck. A duck. It's a witch, burner. We're very serious. So let's go back to the Garden of Eden because I think this is. is really interesting. In the Garden of Eden, we know before Eve eats the apple, right, they're in direct communication with God. Then they get one rule, just don't eat this one thing,

which I think is interesting as it relates to how kind of the crisis of the human experience has unfolded over the years is there tends to be a boundary that's given and then this sort of rebelling that's like wanting to push the boundaries. If you think of with little kids, that happens all the time, you're like, don't spill that milk. And they're like, but why? Now I want to kind of spill a more. You know, now I really like, what? What's going to happen? So if you think about going back to that moment, right, she's told not to eat the apple. Obviously, the serpent tempts her. She eats the apple. And what is the first experience that they have? Realizing that they're naked. Right? And God says, who told you that you were naked? Because immediately they have their very first experience once it's

happened is the introduction of fear and shame. And they hide. And they hide, right? Because now they didn't know they were naked before, but now they hide themselves. God says, who told you you were naked? Because obviously, he knows. The consequence dimensionally of eating that apple is they had their higher dimensional eyes, right? They were operating above the third dimension and because that God dwells high above the third dimension. So they were basically in God's presence in this garden. There was no separation, but as a consequence of eating that apple, they became bound by time and they then realized they were naked because then they were restricted to seeing in the third dimension. They couldn't see higher than that anymore, which is why then they're trying to be like,

where are you? Because the separation occurred. This is also why when, you know, a lot of Christians were, and really even just, you know, general people that feel that they're morally abstain and would be like, just rise above, rise above that issue, right? They're basically saying, look at this from a higher perspective, don't just stay so focused on what's happening right in front of you in the third dimension. And truly, this is the breakdown of our human experience as a whole, is she eats the apple, and suddenly it becomes harder to follow God's voice because it looks like things are scary. Think about Jesus on the boat with his disciples. The disciples had already seen him perform miracles, and they see their master sleeping on the boat, they're afraid of the storm,

what are they going to do? I would like to think that if I, I had watched all those miracles, I'd be like, if he's sleeping, I'm sleeping. It doesn't matter what this looks like. I'm going to, I'm going to go with, I'll have what he's having. But did they do that? No. No, they were overcome with fear and anxiety, waking Jesus. Like, basically, are you going to let us perish right now?

And he basically is like, have I taught you nothing? Like, why did you wake me up? What are we doing here? Like, why don't you have any faith? At this point, how could it possibly be that your faith is still lacking? And I let him start because Peter goes, well, I got it. And he jumps out of the boat to walk the next time, to one Jesus is. walks in the water, but then he still doesn't make it. He goes, sort of thinking like, oh, I don't

think of question himself, right? Which just shows how we perceive the third dimension, that really, that is what causes us to falter. Because things look a way that is not the way that God's seeing it, right? So now that we kind of understand the consequence of eating the apple is that we are overwhelmed with only seeing the third dimension, we've lost our spiritual eyes, I think many people eventually get those back or are able to kind of straddle two worlds simultaneously. I know that's how it's been for me a lot of my spiritual walk is that I can see in the spirit, but I also know where the lines of physical reality are. And I think sometimes people struggle with that.

Their spiritual eyes get open and then they start to conflate the two and they start to basically act like a mentally unstable person, right? So if we think about this dimensional piece and then we go back to understanding fourth dimension and what happens when we switch to fifth. Obviously, I'm not a proponent of smoking weed or doing any sort of drugs or, again, air quotes, medicine ceremonies. I think they're terrible and I think it is very intentional and a plan of Satan that now we're trying to legalize and push all of that and call it medicine. Because what happens, and obviously I have smoked weed before in my life, I'm sure many people listening have, what is the thing that happens most there? Does time

feel very linear when you're high? It slows down. It slows down. And, And you can get lost in something for a really long period of time, right? You can get kind of like pinpoint focus on something. People are like, bro, what are we been doing for the last two hours? And you're like, what? I was sweeping the same spot on my floor for two hours, right? So what happens when you ingest certain sorts of chemicals is our concept of being time bound, then it just gets distorted.

So it's not that we are freed from it, but it gets distorted. I like to think. So going back to kind of understand that graph paper, we experience time unfold chronologically, but the way that graph paper functions, I like to call a sticky web where that is really, I think, and I know some of your other guests have talked about this, when people talk about things like astral projection or sometimes what happens in dreams, I think that is what's happening in that fourth dimensional sticky web. So you're not actually going up to the higher dimension. So like roughly five to seven, which I think include kind of like

lower heavens, you know, different terminology for them. But I think best essence, estimates are that the seat of God is in the seventh dimension or potentially higher. When you think about that fourth dimensional sticky web, I think a lot of people get deceived into thinking that they're having this encounter with God, right? But what's really happening is that they're getting pulled into kind of this lower spirit realm. And just because it looks different than here, they think like, oh, that's God. This is a spiritual experience.

But they don't realize that's basically the easiest place to have the enemy weaponized. Second heaven. We've talked about in the sense of like jumping the fence. Exactly. You're like, we can just jump in the second heaven. And people do have, the Bible says Satan masquerades is an angel of light. And these friends of mine and people that I know have been like, well, I encountered God. It was this bright light and it felt like love.

And I'm like, if you did it this way, more unlikely it's not, you know, I hate to break it. But you're like, I don't think that's what you were seeing or encountering because of what we know. And I'm glad you said what you said because I think people get enamored with this idea of like a shortcut. It's a shortcut to have a spiritual, supernatural, in quotes, experience. But once you leave the constructs of this third dimension into the second heaven, or ever you want to semantically talk about it, you lose sort of the protections that we have here. And I think you open yourself up to all kinds of things.

This is why people are trying to map these spaces now with DMT and whatnot. But I think people are... Oh, the laser, the red laser thing. Yeah. But the fact that everyone's having similar. experiences to me is someone who was in who grew up in India or someone who grew up in Scandinavia or someone who grew up in rural America are seeing the same things, having the same entities, talking about the same things.

Because it's real. Yes. It's just not where you want to go. No, it's like the science. It's akin to me like NDEs where the scientific community will go, oh, it's the rush chemicals to the brain. But I was like, then why are people, if it's nature versus nurture, why are people who grew up in different places with different lived experiences, different cultures, et cetera,

see the same things, the same. conversation, same stuff. It's because they're actually going somewhere, right? It's just a trap, right? And it really, God is calling us to go much higher than that and to not get stuck there, which is why, obviously, we're supposed to heighten our discernment. We're supposed to know how to delineate kind of the light from the dark, so to speak. And many of the people that I think are drawn to those sorts of practices, they're too open and they don't know how to create separation, right? God is a god of order and separation, right?

It's separating the chaos. It's separating the darkness and the confusion. And there's really, frankly, nothing but confusion in that realm. And that doesn't mean that God doesn't allow some people access to those places to help others. I certainly believe that's true, right? And one could argue that even things like the prophetic operate, I think the prophetic basically starts in the fifth dimension. But there's still this sort of different.

where I've been able to see things that are impacting clients in that sort of fourth dimensional sticky web to help them figure out how to walk their way out of it. So if you've ever had anyone on the show that can essentially see in the spirit, and I, you know, obviously I've had Dr. Laura on my show. I've had conversations with her about this. When you can see in the spirit, sometimes you can see what either demon or spirit is actually interfacing with somebody. And even if they can't see it, right? They don't understand mechanically how this thing has access to them. So in that way, obviously I work in the mental health field, that is a benefit for me to be able to see that because I can kind of, I understand the emotional childhood wounds that are allowing access to whatever is interfacing with them. And God knows that then I can use that wisely for the good of the client.

But if somebody doesn't know how to bring all those pieces together, it can just create more confusion and it can actually put the client in a more dangerous position. Right, because it's like it's chaos, right? It's a god of order, right? I think the temptation is always to just do it by yourself. I mean, you can hop the fence and hang out in the spiritual intervention, but I think God is a good shepherd. And it takes a long time for humans, his own disciples to really understand how to follow him. Too long, probably.

Yeah. And they walk with them. They were hanging out. But imagine, you know, how long it takes for God to put you on maybe some of these missions that some people say they're on. It's not something you just wake up one day and you're an intern and then next thing you get the keys. I think the temptation is in the garden and as always is I'm in charge. I'm in control. I can do this.

I got it. Like the independence and rebellion arc. Yeah. It's like your kid. Like, I got a dad. I can do it. It's like, good luck. Go see what happens.

Bizi, can you, for folks that are listening and where, you know, we're in halfway into this episode, but don't know exactly what you do. Yeah, I guess. I can tell them, because we, I know you work, you've done you're working mental health. We've been walking through your testimony and your story. But I think that gives people a little bit of, of a grid for, no pun intended, to kind of understand how this is your work. But I'll let you talk about that because it's, as you talk about working with mental health

clients, I don't get to understand, have a better understanding of what you, what exactly you do. We have a podcast, you do a lot of speaking, but what is the nuts and bolts of this? Nuts and bolts is I created and, you know, I hesitate to say I created. God allowed me to bring this through at this moment in time. Very much Holy Spirit led, as I mentioned, right, I'm not a reader. I think sometimes, not sometimes, oftentimes, people who invent something that's novel, right? Novel to our world hasn't yet existed at this time and place.

Sometimes it's easier for people who don't, they're not operating in some sort of academic paradigm where they're starting to think in a really restricted way. Sometimes it's easier, I think, for Holy Spirit to bring something through to you because you don't have all these defenses up. You're not like, well, that doesn't match with this theory or that theory, right? And you're not afraid of being ostracized by people in your academic community. You've had, I forget, maybe like Padolka, what was her name? Diana Pasolka. Yes, Pesolka. I remember one of the very first episodes I listened to of hers, like, what feels like forever ago, maybe like four years ago. She was talking about how she was really wanting to pursue something, but she knew. that her academic peers were going to be basically coming for her based on what she was trying to pursue. So I do think that God will be strategic in who he picks to make sure it can come through with as much clarity as possible without being contaminated by some sort of of the world academic container.

So I think sometimes that challenges people's paradigm. Like, well, what are your credentials? And it's like my credentials are God and the Holy Spirit and Jesus, like period full stop there. Those are my only credentials. I shouldn't, I, busy gold, should not know any of the things that I know. There's no of the world tangible way for me to show you how I got to where I am. It makes no sense.

But I think God uses specific moments in your life of trauma or hardship where you're kind of being compressed and refined through the storm so that he's walked out this journey in your life that in each individual moment you're like, this sucks and this makes no sense. But if you can just keep going, if you can just keep following his voice, if you can build that emotional resilience where for me now, the worst things are, the more I lean into him and the more I'm able to be creative, relaxed, rejoicing. So I actually really welcome hardship because that's really where God's coming through big in my life. And it's been proven so many times over. There has to be this refining process. I don't think that I could have had none of that. And then the Lord could have just been like, Hey, I need you to bring this thing through because it wouldn't have mattered to me. It wouldn't have meant anything.

I wouldn't have understood it through my own pain and suffering. So I think there had to be the elements of real life, lived experience. And then God is a good father. When you go through pain and hardship and you are struggling and you do get on your knees and you say, God, help me. Like, I don't know how to, like, what am I going to do? My first child has special needs. I think I shared that with you.

and her, she's got cerebral palsy and her dad committed suicide when she was two because he just kept believing what the doctor said about her. And I kept being like, hey, I know, I know, I've seen it. She doesn't end up like that. Like, do not listen to these people, right? It goes back to that same Garden of the Eden, right? All of a sudden being like, oh, I'm naked, right? People now, people have this ability to speak into what's going to happen right here right now. Well, based on XYZ medical tests, she's going to have this problem and she's going to have that problem. And literally in that moment, I want to be like, I rebuke every word coming out of your mouth. And they thought in the hospital that I was luny tunes, right? They're like, you need to face the reality, right? This very sort of belittling,

like, oh, you're a little peasant. I need you to face reality. Like your daughter is going to have profound handicaps. And I just refused. And praise God, she's going to be a stand-up comedian. I will send you her stand-up comedy. She's hilarious. She does have to talk with her with like a phone talker, but she walks, she's funny, there's nothing wrong with her at all. It just goes to show, right? He bought into that narrative.

He commits suicide. And what unfolds for the next roughly four years of my life was like trauma after trauma after trauma. But in that moment, I could have just said screw it all and be mad at God, right? I could have. But I jobed. I jobed hard. every single time I'm like, okay, God, I'm still with you.

We're still doing something. I'm not going to back down. Because so many people in my life were like, are you okay? Why aren't you crying? Like, are you a psychopath? And I just was like, I don't know how to explain it, but I know that I'm going somewhere. And I felt really steadfast. But at the same time, I was on my knees like, God, help me.

How do I navigate this? And in one conversation with a friend at a coffee shop, I remember seeing diagrams, right? So I'm having a quasi-friendly argument with her, but an argument nonetheless. And I start seeing these diagrams and the way I'm explaining it to her, we're talking about what happens biochemically and emotionally when you get triggered, right? Everyone knows what triggered means, right? Like someone says something, maybe they say something, maybe it's just a look, but you go from being either peaceful or neutral to all of a sudden, you know, face bright red, wanting to

lunge at somebody. And it doesn't necessarily make sense. That's being triggered. So I was trying to explain this to her. And all of a sudden, it was not me. What I was explaining to her, even as I was like simultaneously observing it as I was speaking. And I was like, whoa, what on earth is happening right now? Yeah.

And I was seeing all these diagrams. And I just remember the Lord being like, go to your computer, go to your, like, do not pass go. Don't talk to anybody. Literally go to your computer. And I wrote 80 pages, like just sat there and just wrote 80 pages of everything that I was seeing. And it almost, and I'm not, I'm not saying that he hasn't also met other people with knowledge like this, but the sense that I had of it at this time was almost like, thanks for listening. Like, do you know how many times I've tried to like get somebody to like open,

open this, like unsealed the scroll? It's like he, and again, this is my perception of it. It was this like excitement of like, I'm so glad you're actually willing to listen to this. Because it was like he had tried to do that before and people were like, oh, I don't, I don't know about this. So there was this excitement and it really, it changed my life forever personally because it made so much sense to me. And I was like, oh my God, this is everything. And to summarize it, going back again to the Garden of Eden, as a consequence of the fall, we're easily deceived by what it looks like right in front of us. And to be in God's perfect will, we have to be able to listen to God, even when what it looks like in front of us looks bad. That is the introduction of self-deception.

and the whole core of everything that I've done with break method is how to understand how the pattern of the world, right? Going back to Romans 12, too, do not be conformed to the pattern of the world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. When you are conformed to the pattern of the world, which happens from repetitive childhood inputs that you perceive to be negative, that comes with very specific self-deceptive messages that cause you to act against what God has called you to do, right? go right back to what we're talking about with Jesus and the disciples on the boat. Even in those moments, they were victims of self-deception and they were like, we're going to die, wake up. What we all need to learn how to do, which is what God has had me pull through for all these years. It's been 12 years roughly of bringing break method into the world and turning it into now a behavior

prediction platform. It shows us exactly how what happened to you as a child distorts your perception of reality and gets you to quite literally not only act in counter to the fruits of the Spirit, because self-deception typically directly counters fruit every time. So that's one of the things that God's happy map. But typically, self-deception also causes you to justify one of the seven primary sins. So in essence, if you don't learn how to cut through that self-deceptive message with the sort of truth with the Word of God, you will be triggered emotionally into doing things that are not only potentially not objectively true, but are certainly not going to put you into God's perfect will in your life.

And as a byproduct, we have mental illness, we have physical illness, because we're doing things that are antagonistic, not only to who God has called us to be, but our physical body, our physical mind. Like self-sabotage, right? Self-sabotage is a byproduct of self-deception. If you think of, like, for me,

my main self-sabotage, if I'm not actively engaged in renewing my mind, would be, I can do this for a few more minutes. It's like, I can get this done. I can get this done. And the next thing, you know, I'm 20 minutes late to the next thing. And then people, there's always a trickle-down effect. Oh, she doesn't value my time.

And I'm like, I do value your time. But in this one moment, I really thought I could get this done in five minutes. But then it was 30 minutes because, you know, I'm unaware of the construct of time. Yeah. Let me ask you about that. Because my thought about the Garden of Eden is the serpent tells Eve, like, God really mean that? Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Plants the question. And then is the self-substabion being Eve telling herself like, yeah, God's holding out on me. I'm going to eat this. Like because, and that's, so then if that's how the beginning of self-deception sort of starts as we look at the end of the Genesis, if you will. Genesis of Genesis. In your mind, then how does that, how does it interplay with like the Unseen Realm and the things that we know, we talk on the show at the time about, you know, spiritual warfare, which I think

is a blanket term for a lot of stuff that maybe. be even spiritual warfare, right? We could put that aside. But the idea that like we're spirit animals and we, you know, are humans, we're spirit humans, we've got a spirit in ourselves and we interact in the spiritual world. We just talked about that. How does that interplay work when it comes to your work and, you know, like being the enemy when it comes to kill, still and destroy?

He is the deceiver, the accuser. And so I know there's an input on us as humans from. the unseen realm. So how does that play into? Oh, it's interesting. It's always, it's rarely a physical battle. It's usually a mental battle. That seems to be the, well, and they all, they certainly interconnect with each other. They're all, they're all interconnected no matter what you're, whether a person is aware of the spirit realm or not. Yeah.

That's something that's involved in the cycle in which they're experiencing some sort of trauma, right? Whether, whether you see it or you acknowledge it or not, it is happening. The way that I, so I'll break it down scientifically and then I'll kind of, to pivot it over to understanding how that kind of sandwich is, if you will, with the spirit realm. So in my body of work, I talk about something called the neurocognitive funnel. So on the top level, our perception of reality is up at the very top, right? And what we think we are seeing is going to determine how we respond biochemically. So you and I, for example, we could go into something. We could watch the same exact thing. Based on what happened to you as a child,

you might see something as fear-inducing, and if I've had a lot of exposure to that thing, my brain's going to be like, well, that's not a big deal, right? Like, I'm going to stay even killed possibly, and then you'd be like, busy, did you see that? Yeah. Right?

So your heart rate's not elevated. You have real physical signals that you are in distress. I don't. What's true? Like, what's objectively true? Well, what's objectively true is really the only thing that matters

is what we perceived at that time. Real quick, because I think this is important for people because I think often when people are going into the supernatural, the blurry, a lot of things center around memory. You only encode what you perceive happen to you. And I think this is really important for people because what objectively happened basically doesn't matter. Because we don't imprint memories objectively. It's all subjective. So what we think we see will determine how we respond emotionally. How we respond emotionally, that biochemical chain reaction will determine what we physically do.

right? When your heart rate raises, are you going to reach out and be like, oh, my God, busy, did you see that? Right? It prompted you to reach your hand out and be like, am I okay? Whereas maybe I would have gone in no problem and I would have immediately with my brain pattern looked at you and been like, do you need help? Right? I'm much more the like, can I take care of people? Like, you guys good? Because it's not that easy for me to be agitated by that stuff. But really all comes from perception. So when we think about it that way, really, that is exactly what happens in the Garden of Eden, right? Is there perception? changes. All of a sudden they're like, oh my God, I'm naked.

Yeah. But what I think is really important also is God introduces really the first boundary. Like all of this, just not this one little thing, right? All of this, whatever you want to do, just don't eat this one thing. And what does that do? It plants this seed. It's like, but why, why would you say all of this, but not this one thing? So I think for Eve to have even been susceptible in the first place, there already had to be this like, but why, right? Because we are naturally curious. Yeah.

So obviously Satan was able to capitalize on that and be like, hmm, I know, I know what I'm going to do here. But in essence, when that happens, she eats the apple. Now basically Satan has direct access to us to manipulate us, twist our thoughts, and again, get us to counter what God wants us to see, which is not specifically our time-boundedness. Which is why for a lot of the things, and in my work with, clients, I've been in the mental health field now for 12 years. I started break method and now

this other company predictive mind, which are now nationally accredited, right? I train therapists and people like that. But in these programs, the primary thing that we are doing is to map how what happened to you in childhood altered your perception of reality, right? Because we each have like a very specific way that we perceive reality. And it does, it creates this sort of restriction instead of seeing all that could be or all that God has called us to do, we start to really center our lives around staying safe, wanting people to like me. All of those restrictions, that is the pattern of the world, right? So we each kind of essentially have a different pattern of the world. And what Holy Spirit helped reveal was what these five primary patterns are, because there really are five primary

brain pattern types. And when we know what that is, I can actually go to a client and show them, you know, especially when they're Christian, these are all the, ways that Satan's going to try to manipulate you. They're going to use all of your insecurities, all of your memories every time that you've lied. So now we essentially have a script. This is how the enemy is going to try to get you to turn on God. So are you going to do it? And I think the biggest piece, that's the diagnostic side of what I do. But God is a good God and God wants us healed and hold and restore. He doesn't, he didn't call us here to make us suffer. Of course, suffering is a part of a lot of the human experience, but there's no way God's going to put us in a situation and be like,

well, have fun suffering, right? He's not just there to watch us struggle. He's a good God, and he's going to bring through people and modalities and things that as long as they do not go against the word of God can still be partnered, right? And I think that's something that I've had pushback from a lot of legalist Christians. They're like, well, but if you're not doing this, like, only for Christians, then like, could it really be true? And I've opened up my books and said, because I've had so many pastors, priests, look at any of the things that the Lord has brought through in my work. If one of them counters the Bible, please show it to me.

I'm open. But it hasn't happened yet, and we're 12 years deep at this point. So I think this idea that, like, you can only do it this way. I don't, I feel like especially in this season, God's not moving that way. I think there's a lot of revival, I think, happening even outside of a four-walled church. and I think God wants to be in everything. Yeah. It really resonates a lot with, like, what you're saying in the last 30 minutes is a lot of, like, people go,

oh, they expect us to want to talk about Sasquatch all the time on the show. And I got it's not, it's not, it's about how you think about things. That's really what the podcast is about. It's how you think about things. Like, I think that's, Jesus asks questions a lot because, like, get out of the mode and start to, like, personalize this. Right? I think some of the adversion maybe to reading is it's just somebody else's thoughts. Yes.

When do I have my own conversation with God? And like Jordan Peterson says, you know, like the only way to come to original thought is having a debate in your head. Right. And I think there are a subset of people who do not have a conversation in their head. They just go. They just, and they're not debating themselves all day long. NPCs. But that's what you're talking about, right?

Like, you're not going, well, if I do this, that I have. happens. Well, you know, you're not going back and forth. And then I think that's where the creative and the originality comes. And then I think that's where you meet God and he can speak to you. Okay, now, what do you think about that? And then it's like you move it from this human debate to a, okay, God, here's where I'm at. Am I right or wrong? And this can all happen while you're driving your car. Oh, yeah. You're falling asleep, whatever. And it does seem like when you have these complicated topics and you're running in these circles of blurry things. It's like, oh, you're not even you're like three layers asleep in the dream. Oh, yeah. You don't even know how to have this

conversation up here. And it's frustrating. I think a lot of people don't even know that aspect of the character of God that it's acceptable to do that. Yes. Which makes me so sad. That's something I models it. Totally. You've heard it said. You've heard all these things. What do you think? Yeah. You can't ask me that. I can't think for myself. I don't. I don't. that can't have an original thought. Right. And they kind of almost like default and they're like, no, no, we're here for you to tell us. It's like, yeah, but you can uncover my truth and interpretation through talking it through, right? I think people, a lot of legalist Christians, I think kind of like shut down this idea that you can and should ask questions.

And at least the character of God that I have known since the time I was little meets me in that place every time. As long as it's with a pure heart posture where I want the truth more than I want to foist my agenda. Or try to manipulate God. You not be manipulated, but I think we sometimes in our sinful nature, we try to do that. Like, well, God, if I do this, do you do that. I did this, you know. But you could be locked into like seven, okay, here's the seven psychology books I've read. And this is what everyone agrees over here.

So I can't step outside of that at all. Right. It's called paradigm where you get into a paradigm and then you literally can't think your way out of it. And the term I've used for it since I was early 20s is intentional ignorance. Because people will just be like, well, like, how did you, like, how did you do it? I have practiced intentional ignorance because I also, as a person who really cares about only speaking the truth, I can't read other people's books. I can't have other teachers because if something comes, how will I, how will I know if I

borrowed or copied or twisted? but the Bible is the only book that I read the Bible a lot. Do you get this thing where you have a thought, you've come to a conclusion, God's told you something, and then you try to express that to somebody else, and they go, have you read such and such and such? And you're like, no, but I came to that conclusion. Without that. Yes.

So where did that come from? How did people tell me to read all these books based on the ideas that I have? Because I didn't get those ideas from anywhere else. Because truth is truth, right? if something is true, there may be 100, obviously picking an arbitrary number here. There could be a hundred different ways to arrive at that truth. But if something is true and you are rightly walking with the Holy Trinity, you will get to that truth and you will get there without having read a book first from someone else that got

there. But this is also where I think Satan can weaponize things because there are often little pieces of truth and all these things that are certain. certainly of Satan, which leads people astray. I know you had Krista. So she was one of my students way back in the day of two. I don't know if you know that we had that connection to, but I love her. She's wonderful. But for example, with her, I know she was talking about in her episode, right? Like there are these pieces of truth. There are these things where it's like, well, I'm not getting this in the church and that makes sense. So it allows people to potentially be led astray to follow

these little breadcrumbs of truth. That's why I think, I, I guess, Again, kind of going back to how I look at what God has allowed me to bring through to the world at this time. It's like, search the whole thing. If the whole thing doesn't completely match up with the Bible, tell me. I'm absolutely open. Because when it's just a piece, that usually is a signal that you're going in the wrong direction. If it's like, this piece, yes, but these things. Well, it has to be there, right?

Busy, because otherwise, if you know on its face outright, it's false, it's easy to reject. But if you start to, if you latch on to a piece, and this is how I feel like deceptions work, it's like marketing. Yeah. If a piece of it feels palatable enough or it scratches a little bit of that itch, like, then yeah, you, then you can fall into it. You said something I want to ask you about, and I think, because it's been something that's been in my head for a long time, we talk about your neural funnel. As a clinician, really, or as someone who operates, is how do people separate their own trauma and their reactions to an impotence? from discernment because this is what we see all the time in our space is that what I believe I'm seeing is that a certain piece of content or a podcast episode or whatever will trigger

people, users were triggering and they'll be like, my discernment went off and that's false. And what I perceive is that in the same conversation online, you'll have another comment that says, this was like, the Holy Spirit just affirmed all this was an amazing thing. And you go, you can't hold these two things to be true. They can't both be true. And when you're saying that like, oh, man, we watch a movie or film and it triggered all of his trauma, but you're like, I've seen this all before. You have a different response. I feel like that's what I've been thinking about with people will conflate with discernment.

They'll say, they'll convey their own emotional response to something. And that would, that will, they will convolut with hearing from. So how do you take that, the lived experience of having a neural funnel? And how do you separate that from what I'd really call a true discernment where you're hearing from the Holy Spirit not reacting biochemically to something that causes trauma that triggers trauma or fear or another emotional response that makes you feel a certain type of way based upon an input. Using of the world terms for a moment, think about instinct versus intuition. I think a lot of people can flate the two is the same, right? like my gut says. Yes.

Yeah. Okay. So instinct is actually rooted in a fear response, right? That is our primal fear response. So think about your instinct is if you, well, maybe not you. I was going to say, if the Sasquatch, you're just eaten by the campfire and the Sasquatch was right behind you. Yeah.

Maybe if you weren't you. Maybe you would run for due life, right? You might be like, hello, I've been waiting for this appointment. I mean, it kind of reminds me of Alan Grant in Jurassic Park. Some situations scare him. and other situations, he knows all about dinosaurs. And then when he has the encounter, he, everyone else is freaking out. He's like, don't move.

Yeah. You know, here's the T-Rex. He can't see you if you don't. You know, it's like we can bring in a lot of knowledge of a situation. And then when we have the experience, we know what to do when we're in the middle of it. So I guess I would, I wouldn't know how I would react if I saw a Sasquot. I just immediately saw this visual of you, like, turning around with the pipe, be like, hello. I've been waiting for our interview.

It just depends. I mean, like, there's certain cryptic creatures that you can't not have. a fear response with them. I mean, think about the angels, for example. That's why it's always like, do not be afraid. Because our instinct likely would kick in. Be terrified. And instinct is not the same as discernment.

And it's in fact often very counter to discernment. It's always counter to the Holy Spirit. So if you think about it from that chemical perspective, and this is, I think, why the Lord has had me bring through the work that I've brought through is you actually can renew your mind. you can get yourself to a place where you are no longer triggered. And I truly believe only in that place, are you able to really exercise discernment? I think a lot of the people that say that they're using discernment are doing exactly what you're saying,

where it's actually their underlying paradigms or insecurities or legalism that are making them say it's discernment. But most people that have strong metacognition on the outside looking and they're like, that still looks triggered to me. Like, I don't know if you're seeing that the way I'm seeing it. I also kind of try to articulate. And I think you provided some language or a grid for it was that like our emotions are not equal to feel like an equation to discernment.

Like not to say that God can't use our emotions, right? Or use our guts. And I know sometimes you have this gut feeling. That's the way we talk about it, right? And that's spot on. But I think we have to be very careful when we start to apply sort of those physio responses and say that that's my discernment or that's, I mean,

because you can have, you can be wrong. And if you're honest with yourself, you're wrong a lot. But the Christian's default is I go reformed or I go charismatic. Like I can't live somewhere in the middle between sometimes is this, sometimes it's that. I think if you focus your life on who was Jesus, what did he say? What did he do? And you let that be like the pinnacle of what informs your decisions. Not to say that, like, of course, there are so many other pieces of the Bible that should be kind of in that hierarchy.

but to me, I've found many Christians that seem to, in my opinion, somehow put Paul above Jesus, which to me has been a very strange thing coming as a Jew into reading the word because I didn't ever have a pastor tell me what to think. So I just got to read it. And I think sometimes when you, if you were really putting what Jesus said, how he showed up, what he did, his example, what you see is somebody who was extremely emotionally regulated, right? Jesus was so even keeled. He didn't really have ups or downs. And I think kind of doubling back to a couple things that you brought up kind of like, where does spirits and demons kind of fit into the self-deception when you become emotionally dysregulated. So this is like when you become triggered in essence,

you give access to demons and spirits. They, in essence, that fast. They feed off of of that. So think about it like kicking off a scent. There's a specific scent. And even if you know somebody like where they have that fear, sweat smell, I know that's like a very three-dimensional, tangible thing. But sometimes, yeah, you sometimes can, you can smell when someone's stressed out. Now take that a level higher. When you were in that emotionally triggered state, spirits are like, sweet. It's basically, it's an open door. I have access to this person now. And the other thing that we want to keep in mind is that it also gives legal rights for demons and spirits to torment you. Same with something called self-cursing. So let's say you have a self-deceptive message.

Like, I'm never going to be enough. No one's ever going to like me. You're also telling yourself that. So you're now jumping on the bandwagon of your own self-tortment, which actually gives legal rights for spirits to be like, sweet, open door. I actually have legal rights to continue to torment this person. So if we keep letting self-deception justify whatever the sort of emotional dysregulation is, where we just continually keep the door open to these things in the spirit realm. Also, like from a I know you know this as well, but also from like a biological standpoint, you are rewiring the neurons in your brain to negatively. Like we can do these.

I mean, this is like scientifically. There's a bunch of published studies that say this is how it works. You can rewire your brain, which is in some ways I feel like is what is the bio result of renewing your mind daily. Is you actually got it? Jesus is actually going to rewire your brain physically. way that, I mean, in his sense, is the way that he works, the way that God works is that he's going to. But it's a personal relationship always. It comes down to a relationship, which requires back and forth, communication, trust, building more trust, going back and forth, and then going out of the boat,

walking on the water, learning to walk, not freaking out, and everyone else behind you, most of the world is going to be like, what the hell are you doing? What are you doing? They're going to try to make you question yourself. They're going to jump on the self-deception bandwagon and try to get you to turn back. Jesus is looking right at Peter and going to tune it all. all out. Look at me. Look at me. Look at me. We got this. We're going to walk. And every single Christian has to get out of a boat and walk on the water with Jesus. And we all want to stay on the boat and criticize the guy who got out. And you just landed on something that is really

fundamental to rewiring and it echoes what you were just talking about. In order to rewire, you have to do specific things strategically differently. So it can't just be this haphazard, like, I'm going to try a little bit of this today. There is a specific opposition that counters the attack of the enemy. So one of the things that we focus on in Break Method, and I have a very specific Christian program called Renew Your Mind that is the biblical approach to neuroscience and rewiring, there is a specific word or series of words that directly counteracts what Satan just tried to weaponize against you. And that is how God was revealing to me. Like in Break Method we called the Eli triangle, but essentially what's happening is that Satan will kind of push on you,

the accuser, right, try to get you to be triggered into your emotions because when you're emotional, you're in your amygdala. You're not able to think rationally. What both prayer, but also reading the word or, you know, learning how to push back the way we do it in break method, it pushes you into your prefrontal cortex. So you're kind of piercing through Satan's emotional self-deceptive argument with actually, here's exactly why that's not true. And it's not aligned with who God's calling me to be and where I have to go. Right. So now you have this moment where you're no longer in your emotional response because you've shifted to a different part of your brain. So now that you're in your prefrontal cortex, you're like, okay, I don't feel like my heart is racing anymore. I can make a better

decision. When you create that space, you can yield to the Holy Spirit. When you are heart pounding and you're thinking irrationally, sometimes it's really hard for you to tune into that sort of like FM station of the Holy Spirit. Because all you can think is like, the walls are closing on me. I don't know where I am. The enemy starts to get this like bigger stronghold over you. So ultimately, learning how to prevent this sort of emotional dysregulation with very specific language allows you to yield to the Holy Spirit and to do something very specifically differently. So in break method, we call this pattern opposition, right? So what you just said, like, what is Jesus calling you to do?

Because usually it's something that is, it's unfamiliar. It's something your brain does not want you to do. It does not feel safe. Calm down. Move one foot in front of the other. walk towards me. Do you think parenting is a big part of the biggest? Learning the relationship with God.

I think it can have such a huge impact. So parenting in early childhood years in my body of work are the most important thing. And I think what often scares people is this your brain pattern is actually formed by five. So from zero to five, whatever you experience with the highest frequency, that's going to create that sort of perception restriction. What's interesting, there's a lot of things that are interesting. I think before we jump into that, imagine when a spirit first comes into the world, right? You come in, you're innocent. You are intended to be able to be curious because you have to understand what the world is.

Like, is Mommy happy or is Mommy sad? Like, what is love? Do Mommy and Daddy love each other? Right? So you have to be inquisitive and kind of understand and be able to explore. Yeah. But your capacity to love is also completely unlimited, right? A child doesn't come in already hardened and like, well, daddy looks mad so I can't go seek love.

You have to learn all those things by sadly trial and error, right? So if a child comes in innocent, right, they're not yet jaded. They're not patterned by the world, another way to say it. They're curious and all they want is love. How easy is it for them to experience early childhood trauma? Even in a family that for all intents and purposes was like pretty good. Yeah. Pretty easy, right?

Yeah. If you change, if you change the threshold, really what happens is that essentially everybody has child of trauma. And I think that is, that is the hypothesis in all of the work that I do. It is, everyone has a specific pattern. And it doesn't matter whether yours was satanic ritual abuse or yours was watching your parents fight. Everybody has something. And you have to understand what the inputs were so that you can map what the outputs are and understand if, if this, then this, right? We have to think and really formulate statements. And when you understand

the cause and effect relationships that cause certain patterns of the world, you understand how Satan's able to really weaponize specific people in specific ways. So one of the things the break method has done is we've mapped what childhood inputs spit out what types of brain pattern outputs as an adult. So example would be with brain pattern mapping, somebody can spend 20 minutes filling out these questions and they're all historical data points. So none of them are like, how did you feel about that? Like, tell me your life story. Because the whole idea that I think is very disruptive,

what we do counter to traditional mental health, we don't ask about your life story because the whole supposition is, if I ask you a question about your life story, you're not going to realize that you're lying to me, but you will be. It's impossible not to because of self-deception, right? Everything you tell me will have a slight twist and distortion on it

that won't ultimately help you get to the other side, right? it won't get you to that place of being truly renewed. So we have to do it the other way. In 20 minutes, there's 200 historical data points. We can accurately predict how you see certain situations, how you behave, but also more importantly, how you behave initially, and then how that kind of snowballs out of control over chronological time. And the way I think God has desired to use this for the body of Christ is that when you know that, you already know and can anticipate every argument Satan will try to use and how they'll try to weaponize that against you, which allows you to be fully at peace, truly renew your mind, and to go boldly into all the places that your brain

has lied to you, right? In the name of my book, your brain's a filthy liar, lied to you and told you not to go and made you feel really justified not going. I can't do that because of this. Like, everyone is untrustworthy. Everyone will always leave. No one will really understand me. And then obviously Satan and then demons and spirits all start to kind of piggyback. And they're like, wow, we've really got a stronghold on this person. Like, they're ours. But when you have something like this, the freedom that you can get really quickly compared to traditional talk therapy, usually clients will have really radical changes within three

months. And what happens is you know also what things they have to do differently, so where they have to oppose the pattern of the world. And when you do this differently, going back to what you were saying about rewiring, the hypothesis is fire together, wired together, right? what you keep doing the same, those neurons will keep kind of braiding together and that connection becomes stronger and stronger. If you do things strategically differently, you can also unbraid those things and get them to separate. So it's no longer an urge for you anymore. It's not a pattern.

It's not a habit. So when you know exactly where the enemy kind of has his claws into you, and you can kind of cut to the chase and be like, well, this is really obvious. We know what to do here. The amount of deliverance you're able to get in a way that's, I think, more, sustainable than just some, you know, some like deliverance minister, you know, I'll go back to this. So I have mixed feelings about deliverance as a whole. I think obviously a lot of times it's real and it works. I think a lot of it can be really performative. I don't have you guys talked much about deliverance on the show. Okay. So I think some of it can be really performative, right? And I think sometimes people want to be into that state so they kind of like play into the whole thing.

But I think sometimes and often like deliverance is a real thing. Like we know that Jesus has called us to do that. But sometimes and often you can deliver somebody and what happens? If you haven't changed, if you hadn't renewed their mind, what happens? Seven more spirits come back in its place. So it not only does it not work, you've made it worse. Yeah. So I think the true process of renewing your mind that the Lord has called us to do, it is a process of doing the hard things, opposing your pattern. One part of the brain that's really important for us to understand when it comes to pattern opposition is called the anterior mid-singulate cortex. When you do something that is antagonistic to what you want to do, like, so when you do

something that's not like, I don't want to do that, that's too scary. Right, when you push against that, you go into that resistance, you fire up your anterior mid-singulate cortex. And when you do that, we actually, as human beings, experience a sense of purpose. We also build emotional resilience and then we learn to do hard things. So in a way, this sort of moving into resistance is Jesus saying, like, pick up your cross And also don't follow me unless you hate your wife and your children because this work of going against the pattern of the world is profoundly hard and challenging. But what you are able to achieve on the other side through this process of refining and purification and sanctification is a renewed mind that is able to really see things as close as we can to the mind of God, right?

I could be in a bad, bad situation and most of the time because of what God has led me through and I've let others. through, I can maintain peace and clarity and something called metacognition, which is your ability to think about your thinking, as you're thinking it. You talked about it a little while ago without knowing it. That's where we can really yield to the Holy Spirit, because we can actually question ourselves in the moment. Like, is that really, like, did that come from an honest place? Did I really mean what I said right there? When people are operating in this restricted pattern of the world, they don't have access to that. And God wants us to have access to those things. he wants us to be free.

And I think sometimes your trauma can lead you at a young age to start having that conversation. So God uses all of it together. But you're kind of describing like, well, you can kind of come out five different doors here. And I think what's cool is, you know, even just how you're, it kind of feels like my vision right now is you're kind of like a lawyer for people. I talk about that. Yeah, I talk about that.

And just like the devil's over here trying to make his argument. You're with your client. You know, it's not ironic, a little bit how you're dressed today too. You're kind of like in between the client, the person, and you're like, this is saying this is his arguments and this is these are the, these is how you have to learn. These are better arguments. Instead of just an endless loop of therapy where you talk about your emotions 24-7 and you never get anywhere. So true. And how much of the of the running your mind is like is scripture because, you know, the Bible says like meditate on the word day and night.

And I think about Jesus. And when he's confronted about things, he will say when Satan, the wilderness says it's written. And then he says, have you not read, have you not heard, have you not heard, have you not read, have you not read? And I feel like that he's talking about the same thing, like that here comes the deception, or even the self-deception you're telling yourself or that they're telling him. And he says, uh-uh, here's the truth. And have you not read this? Have you not, do you not know that the word says this? And I can't help to think that like that's part of like, meditate on the word day and night, have the scripture written on your heart. So he is the word and Satan weaponizes language against us. And Jesus being the word is the sort of truth that pierces all those things. And you're absolutely right. There is a legal aspect to this, right? And when I'm working with clients who are not Christian, I talk about it one way that makes sense.

And I will just say one of my favorite things about what God has called me to do is a lot of people have given their lives to Christ that would have never been open to it. because I'm really clear from the get-go about what I believe. But I don't, you know, in the majority of like the scientific work I do in break, I don't specifically say anything other than like, here's what I believe and here, you know, here's my spiritual framework. And then I just do exactly what God told me to do. And in the end, most people are like, can I have access to your Bible study? Can I have access to renew your mind?

Because at that point, they're already like, I trust you now because this has changed my life. And if you believe this and this is what informed this, then there has to be. something here. And I think there's a shift from deliverance in some ways that happens, whereas you emotionally call out if you're having an alien abduction episode, you're like, Jesus, Jesus, you're just emotional about it versus you learn to control yourself and say, under the authority of Christ, you have no right here. You have no legal right to me. And then that's when the abduction. So it feels like people are just emotionally, they say, well, people call in the name of Christ and it stops. I'm like, it might stop for that day, but does it stop? But does it stop?

permanently because are you just emotionally crying out, Lord, save me instead of I have authority, you know, the word goes with me, I'm here, you can't, you can't legally have a right to me anymore. And I think that's a big part of why the arguments on our channels kind of go on forever. Oh, yeah. Because we don't really ever, very few of us really grab onto that authority and walk in that sense and kind of sluff off what everyone thinks and feels. And mostly it's the church that's kind of attacking you as you're walking with Christ. Because I think most of the secular world just doesn't care. They're just over there like these Christian people, they don't bother me.

Until you do something that triggers them, then they come at you. But I think it's often Christians fighting because we don't want to surrender and actually walk and have a relationship with Christ. We just want someone else to tell us how to do it. And it's interesting on this, I mean, this whole conversation is to be vulnerable. I think starting with these conversations, I wrestled a lot with like people are going to think we're insane. Like Sasquatch, Jesus, you can't put these things together. And I have chronic people pleasing in my, and it was really hard for us.

And I was surprised Luke wanted to do it, to be honest, because I was like. I can't wait. I'm going to send you guys the brain pattern mapping link. All right. We got figured out. But every time I like rewatch an episode of our podcast, I go, dude, I suck. This is, this is dumb. Is this even working?

Is this, you know, you go through that like, what do we? You know, and you feel defeated. And then there's other days where it's like, that was awesome. That was something different. I didn't even know where that came from. And I think it's easy to stay as a podcaster in the safe space of asking the right question, sounding smart, appeasing an audience, saying the right Christian word so that half the audience who's this denomination doesn't turn on you.

And it's like, no, I'm. here to be a conduit between the message and the message bringer and and truth is stranger than fiction and I don't know what to do so it's it's I think we both internally deal with that on the daily of like okay I'm walking I'm trusting that I don't even know how this episode came to be but we're going to we're going to make the most of it and it's easy to have a formula and follow it it's harder to do that with a show like this so I don't really want to make it about me but everything's connecting to how daily I feel about what we're doing and the struggle that we have internally. What's really interesting about what you just described, what we've found through going through

the data, so we've gone through 15,000 brain patterns essentially at this point to kind of understand things the way that we do now. Yeah. In early childhood, remember I were talking about those zero to five agees. When you grow up in a family that actually has a lot of structure, they do things intentionally, right? There is love. You do trust your parental figures. What ends up happening is it splits you onto the right side of the brain pattern spectrum. And on the right side of the brain pattern spectrum, there can become this sort of fixation on what others are thinking about you. And as a

byproduct, your situational awareness drops out, right? Because if I need to be queued until your micro expressions and like, do you like me? Am I doing a good job? You could miss what's happening in like the left corner of the room. If the opposite is, true. And you grew up in a household that has maybe some serious lack of trust, parents saying they're going to do something not falling through, or parents like having fights and hiding behind closed doors, that might give the child the input like, I can't quite trust these people. I have to figure out what they're hiding or what's really going on. So as a result, you become more attuned to what's happening in your external environment and what one person's micro expressions mean. You're like,

whatever, that doesn't really matter. I need to be focused on this big picture. So what ends up happening is we have kind of these abandonment-oriented brain pattern types, and then we have these rejection-oriented brain pattern types. The abandonment-oriented brain pattern types tend to naturally have higher metacognition, because they're already not necessarily too focused on what the other person's thinking. They're always thinking kind of big picture. But one of the negatives of that is maybe I am missing some relational cues. Maybe I am thinking so big picture about something that I leave and someone's like, oh, she was kind of a jerk. And the whole time maybe I was thinking about something big picture and my physical signs that I was giving to you made me look cold, right? Yeah.

So I share this because both of these sides of the spectrum often marry each other. They often get into relationships together. So what can happen is the person on the right is going to wildly misinterpret the motives and the intent of the person on the left and vice versa, right? Because I could be thinking big picture and, you know, my husband's on the right. I'm on the left. My I'm confused face, he immediately interprets as I think you're a dumb peasant face. So he'll get mad and I'll be like, I was confused. I don't understand. What do I have to do with my eyebrows to bypass this sort of rut, you know?

So that kind of stuff can happen. Whereas like I care less about someone's eyebrows than I'm more, you know, thinking about the big picture. Right. So when you think about things like that, the early childhood environment, which is why I bring it up, the zero to five, the irony. And I think there's a very specific reason that God calls for biblical parenting to be a certain way. When you overdo it with love and structure and attentiveness, you often cause your children to overly trust other people, put them into, put other people in a position of hierarchy where God does not want them to be. You become susceptible to peer pressure, right? You like, want your friends to like you.

You want your pastor to like you. God actually called for us to do the opposite, right? Like he called like you don't the world is going to hate you. So caring about what people think like what are they going to think about our family, which is often a very Christian sort of paradigm. It forces you into this right hand side. And as a byproduct, you guys are much more susceptible to very specific types of depression, anxiety, apathy, suicidal ideation addiction.

Nearly all the mental health markers increase as you go over to this very specific spot on the right hand side because the pattern of the world is overwhelming. Right. And then it becomes, in essence, you went back to this example of like, what does your relationship with your parents have to do with God? Well, I would argue what often happens in the Christian space? And I don't obviously know anything about your childhood. But let's say you do end up on the right. And you're more of these rejection-oriented patterns.

And you're like, I love my parents. They would never leave me astray. And then what happens? There's some sort of church hurt. There's some sort of like sex scandal at your church or whatever. At that point, if you put your parents on this pedestal and your whole paradigm is built around like, if I can trust my parents. parents, I can trust God, right? Like, all these things kind of match up onto itself.

Then when this bad thing happens, you have to do one of two things. You either turn on yourself and you collapse that you've no more self-trust anymore. Or you turn on God in the church. Like, well, if this is fake, then all of that's fake, right? And then they walk away, really enraged. Zero-sum. It's a zero-sum game. Deconstruction.

Yeah, seriously. The whole deconstruction thing, that's all those kids that had that rainwiring are just like, I'm over it. Over it, right? Because one mega pastor fell. Yeah. And they're just done. Instead of, and this is what I love to help people like that do,

because I think those brain pattern types are extremely prevalent in the Christian community. Do you feel like Satan's kind of like, you know, he gets his board meeting together and he's like, all right, guys, so we got these five different brain, you know, this is how we do. You guys go attack those kids. You attack those kids. And then it's just like we're all rendered kind of. You're sad demon over there. You get the emo kids.

Yeah, you get the emo kids. There are specific spirits that do seem to cluster and have access around certain types of mental illness. And mental illness tracks certain brain pattern types and certain brain pattern types track certain sort of childhood input. So they all map together. But you can't understand it from like an old school traditional psychologist perspective, right? It's layers. Like there's dimensional stuff going on. And it's really hard for to have these blurry conversations with somebody who just refuses, I want to say,

supernatural, but... We've had a lot of these today. Well, it's just a, it's such a, it's such a not good word at this point in the show. Like, many people agree with us, but on that, but, but I think that's, it's, it's all these things happening together. It's kind of like, it could be mental illness. It could be part of trauma. And it could be a spiritual, it could be a demon.

And it could be all those things happening at once. And it usually is that sort of layered piece of it. I always jokingly, so if everyone thinks about the monopoly monocally, monocle. Although, did we have a Mandela effect and that's gone? Does he still have a monocle? Yeah, he's a monocle. I remember the monocle. The mononical. The mononical. Canonical, the canonical. Okay, so everyone, think about that, the monocle, right? The way I, I like to have people understand the topic that you just brought up is the Bible is like one lens on the monocle, right? But then you have to kind of, I think where we start to really attune to truth is where you've got like,

like the Bible is that first layer, right? Like this is the one that cannot be broken or refuted. But then we have all these other layers on top of it. Okay, let's say we add, we've got like one other lens on top of that that's now a little blurry, right? Now we've got like a little string theory, little multidisationality, a little quantum physics, but maybe now on top of that. Now let's look at psychology too.

Like, right? So in a way we're expanding and constraining at the same time. Yeah. That is, I think, how we're meant to look at the world around us. because things are not just one way, but as long as we keep the Bible as that first lens and nothing can counter that, then we're getting this layered look at something that I think is really profound. Because then you start to see the overlap. Like when I do that, where actually is the truth and where do the lies kind of fall outside of the edges of the paradigm that I'm looking at? But even Jesus will say, you've heard it said, but I say, it's like even with the scriptures that you know, but here's something else I'm going to tell you, it's like, He's still trying to push through and have, like, there's a relational aspect and there's a piece to this. I don't know. It's just hard because since I was a kid in church, it's just wars of Bible verses back and forth.

And I've always been like, who's right, you know, and how are we reading the scripture in a way that's, you know, we exclude the Holy Spirit from this Trinitarian understanding of God? there's the, you know, God father, God the Son, and God the Holy Scriptures. And that's, we don't even factor in that there is a, the spirit of God comes with us to lead us to all truths. The helper. Yeah, the helper. So, I don't know, it's just, it continually becomes just this difficult weaving of figuring it out. And then every once in a while, a story will come across our plate that doesn't fit into any of it.

And you're like, what do I do with that? And the emotional reaction is, I don't believe it, internally, right? And a lot of listeners will have that trigger. They'll cancel the membership. I don't believe in anything you say anymore because of one person's views and then they burn us out and they leave. It's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, something, just someone on some episode just triggered this person. Now you can be like, you need break method when you're done, you'll come back in. We'll send you over here.

Come on back. We're going to renew the pattern of your mind so you're not so triggered. But every, since the beginning, It's like every time we do an interview, it's like there's this like boom, boom, boom going on inside of like, well, I don't know about that. I don't know about this. I don't know about that. So how do you, it's almost like organizing the voices in your head and then having a healthy conclusion of what is all this? But I went back to the parenting thing, though, the other day my two boys were fighting.

They're 10 and 11, right? And they're just going back and forth. And there was this moment in me where I was like, I wanted to get in and get emotional with him. Be like, you said this and you said that, you know, and I'm like, and so I kind of stepped back and played like lawyer guy. Like, how did what he say hurt you? What do you really want from him? Oh, you, you hate your brother, but he loves you and you guys actually care. You're saying you don't care, but you do care. And kind of being this even-tempered moderator between the fighters. I don't know, Judge Judy. You want to like jump in on defend or join aside.

Well, he said this and he did that. You know what I'm saying? You're kind of when you're active parenting, you feel like I'm trying to orchestrate. I don't know. I just felt like that was the right thing to do as opposed to have an emotional reaction and yell. Stop fighting. Because stop fighting doesn't fix it. And you can't feel your feelings doesn't fix it.

And me being emotional doesn't fix it. It's like my role is to be the emotional mature one here, right? Thank God you know that. A lot of parents missed that memo. But I don't, I don't know what I'm doing. I'm just like, I'm going to free flow this here. And we had like a little debate of what he really, what they really want from each other. And I didn't get that growing up.

There was, the reactions for my parents were the same as us. And so it was just everyone's yelling all the time. And you don't, you get, you just want to get out of there. I just got to get out of here. Someone's got to be more emotionally intelligent than I am. I'm seven. What do I know? You know.

Yeah. So then you carry that through your adulthood. And oftentimes I get emotionally reactive to my own children. And I'm like, okay, I'm doing that thing. Step back. You got to be smarter than them. But you just, we all do this in the age of social media. It's just rage, you know.

So it's just a difficult thing when your whole job is to emotionally regulate. And that's exactly it. That is, as a parent, that's one of the most important things. to do is not let your own emotional state and triggers spill into how you're engaging with your kids. But matched with that, what I've found through the work that I've been doing for 12 years is you have to let your kid struggle. And a lot of parents step in, especially lately, too quickly. You want to protect your kids. You want to help them. And when you don't let your kids strategically struggle. They step into learned helplessness. They become needy or dependent on you.

They don't learn how to do for themselves. And the factors that we've looked at that correlate to the best adult outcomes. And I'm saying best outcomes is like self-rated like happiness, being on purpose, being in a good relationship. There's only a few. It's the highest overlap of self-afficacy, meaning like that looks scary. I'll figure that out. I can do that myself. Right. So that's the number one thing you want to nurture in a kid is self-afficacy. Not like, Dad, how do I do this? But more like, you know, without kind of being a jerk, like, it's not like, figure it out. There's an in between, between dad, can you help me and figure it out?

Yeah. It's like a, how about, you know, I'm going to ask you a bunch of questions. What type of materials do you need? How are you going to put those materials together? Why don't you go get your materials set up? Show me, talk me through what your process is going to be and ask me questions about that process, right? Because then you're teaching them how to do it. themselves. But I think people have a hard time finding that line between the two. That's essentially

what you did when you kind of stepped in as like a mediator, right? It's helping both sides understand why they're so emotional. What made them emotional? And is that really true? Like is there, right? You're kind of as a lawyer stepping forward like, I get you feel that way, but what about this? Yeah. And you're kind of little by little, you're getting them to kind of bridge their perceptions of reality together so that everyone can kind of let it go and move on. A lot of parents are not able to do that because they do get emotionally riled up or they get pulled into one sibling's side. But it was so, it was welling in me to the point where it was almost there. Yeah. And I was like, just push it down and not go go back. But, you know, I feel like we could talk forever

about these things. But it's like, I think the cool, the cool part of the conversation to me is like helping us from our perspective and listeners to be like how you respond to somebody on a podcast says something you just don't understand or don't agree with or don't know and then not knee-jerking to turn it off. This is garbage. This isn't fit into my paradigm now. And going, well, what do I like about this? What don't I like about this? And why? And maybe I can learn something because I think spirits come to us and say, well, there's only one way to view everything. And it's just gets you this very vanilla way of cruising through your Christian life. And what the podcast introduces this is all these other ways that you actually grow with your relationship with Christ.

Well, it is a narrow road. It's a hike up a mountain. You're going to fall into the bushes. You're going to get thorns and you're going to cut your leg on a rock. There's no easy way to get closer to our creator. And oftentimes we just, our conversations are just like, wow, that really kicked the bees nest. Like, what was it? What was it about that specifically that that cause this reaction?

And then we get defeated because we internalize it and we think, oh, man, well, I don't know. Do you internalize it, too? Yeah, but I just, I've created a lot of guardrails for myself. You're like, I'm not compartmentalize and not. Yeah, I just like, I mean, I don't, I don't look at the social media. I don't read comments. I've been in this game rotation for like 20 years of knowing how detrimental that can be and how you read nine positive comments and one negative, but you just, you hold the negative

of one. And as you were saying, those things can like, can flip your day, right? Totally. Yeah, I mean, I'm very self-critical, I think, like, a lot like, like, like Nate is about, about this. But yeah, I just, I think there's a, this is a much longer conversation here about, you know, about perspective and, and purpose and, and understanding there's always going to be resistance. You can't make everybody happy, you know, but like, Nick, Nate, there is a desire. You want everybody to, to have a good experience. You want to caretake stuff, you know, and I, but I, but I think. that sometimes like hard truths are hard for people to swallow and I do think as you

as Nate was just saying I think it's important what I've really learned in the show and in us doing this is important for for us to be like I don't like that why okay what do I do I disagree with that why I disagree with them what and kind of break that down because that's this and so why do I think that okay and if you can kind of deconstruct those things and not act in a visceral or emotional way you can come to some conclusions about how you think about things and and your own worldview but you know like these are the easy things to talk about like cognitively but then to practice is a whole other thing right because you know we're

all parents here yeah and you create patterns in your life that you that you default to and a lot and what you've been talking about is i think has really made me think a lot for doing this about you know why i have the patterns i have what is it why do i default to a visceral emotional reaction with certain things with my kids um things in in your marriage with their spouse you know and it is different upbringing. So I think I'm not knowing much about coming into this busy. I'm like so much more fascinated about the work you do and yeah, and interested in and taking a look of that because I think there's this whole thing like we all need therapy and I think there's something to that. But I also think there's something to putting therapy above, you know, the work of Christ and the

Holy Spirit and God in our own lives, right? And I think people will default to therapy, but they will get in a cycle of just walking through their emotions every other day. I think there's something that's actually like a bad cycle to that because you don't ever really come to a whole lot of conclusions other than this is how I feel and I'm reinforcing this is how I feel, right? Well, and talking about your story over and over again or coming through that sort of filter of distorted perception, you're reinforcing it and you're actually all the things we talked about the fire together wire together. You're literally firing together every time you talk about it. Right. So really the opposite is what gets you out of it faster. Like, yeah,

yeah, yeah. Let's, okay, I've got the details. Let's also let's let God restore this, redeem the time and not go back. And we know what caused it. Now, let's let God restore you so that that's not even you anymore. And I think people miss that in this whole idea of becoming a new creation when you really have renewed your mind. A lot of the really terrible things that have happened to me, I don't feel connected to them. They really feel like somebody else. And that's not a process of like compartmentalization or dissociation. When you really get to that place and you know that you are free,

healed. I could talk about those things and have no emotional response to them whatsoever. And it's not out of like a coldness. It's just when God truly renews your mind, you are a different person. That's what should happen. A new creation. A new creation. That's what the Bible says.

That's awesome. Thank you. Yeah. Can you tell folks where they can find? what you're doing and where they can interact with me. You've written a thousand-page book that Nate said he won't read. And I don't have an audio book for it because every time I sit down and do it, I'm like, do I really want to record 700 pages of the 90s?

Maybe I'll read it. Maybe I'll fly right through. There's a thousand words you might get Nathan on board, but it's the anti-readers to write the best books, maybe. It's not like a Nach Libre quote. Nacho! You know, I didn't even think, Bigfoot, what's your thoughts on Bigfoot is? trigger question.

It will, and it really sends some obviously very intelligent people on their show for a loop. And that's why I think you should start. I wonder. Although it might be hard because then people might be like, oh, I don't know if I'm taking this person as well, I thought, you know, don't ask Nt U. right because it's going to trigger. It's a trigger. And I don't know if that's where we're at with him in this hour.

But people, because people are like, why didn't you ask him? It's like, well, I think in there's this little spidey sense. It's like, hmm. Who didn't you ask? N.T. Right. Oh, I don't know who that is. He's a... He's like the preeminent New Testament deologian from Oxford.

Oh, got it. Oh, okay, I did actually hear about that one. But, you know, it's like, it's just, it's a loaded question. And I think that I didn't, I don't even think we realized, you know, until after doing this, I'm like thinking about, oh, that's, that's what's going on here. It's like, it's a trigger. It's a trigger question. Bigfoot is that thing that gets you to deal with your, the truth. trigger in you. You have this emotional response. That's a fantasy. That's a fairy tale. Nobody actually has experiences with this thing. It's all in your head. And you go, now, what are your thoughts on big funny? But, you know, it's training people to come down. Be like emotionally regulate.

Put some thoughts together and think about something that you don't normally think about. What do you think? You know, I didn't realize that we were doing that. One of the things that going back real quick to the pattern opposition piece, because I think this is super important, triggers are really valuable. And when you know how God has called you to walk into the trigger, you actually get excited when you find new triggers. So I think triggering is actually one of the most profoundly impactful experiences because you have to be triggered to go into the resistance to change the pattern, right? So a lot of people, and that's exactly what your brain pattern and Satan wants you to do is they want you to stay in this repetitive familiar. and avoid all the triggers so that they can seem like the boogeyman

they seem like a real fear but when you intentionally go into those fears then you start to get excited like I love when I find a new trigger I'm like ooh this is exciting it's like new territory for me to continue undiscovered country yeah it should it should be a fun place that's Mothman

so keep doing it you keep triggering you keep fighting the good fight you trigger everyone at the beginning of the episode I can handle big foot but Mothman just triggers too heavy but aliens are demons is the trigger for a lot of people right now Oh, yeah. Man, one day I'll tell all my alien stories on the podcast. We'll do another. We'll do another round.

We're saying, we're going to find. Back to Luke's question. So, what can I find all your work? So my very specifically Christian program for neurological rewiring is called Renew Your Mind. You can go to Stan. Dot Store slash Busy Gold. It's just called Renew Your Mind. And I know you had mentioned, like, how much of it is, is the word, all of it. It's throughout the entire thing, you are certainly going to have to buy a Bible. You're going to have to really press into that Bible. it is anchoring every single neuroscientific thing that we do throughout the whole program.

So that's the Renew Your Mind program. You can also go to breakmethodet.com. Break method is the actual rewiring program. We do it with individuals. We do it with couples. We do with families. And if you want to just start with that brain pattern mapping piece that takes 20 minutes, you can go to predictive mind.io.

It takes 20 minutes. You submit it and then you'll meet with somebody on our team and they're going to, they're going to explain all of your self-deceptive patterns and where you tend to get yourself into stuck places in your life and how to get to the other side. And then my book is your brain is a filthy liar. You can get that anywhere books are sold. And you can follow me on Instagram at Busy Gold, B-I-Z-Z-I-E. And I try to stay active on my DM. So it's really me. I don't have like another person running it. Love it. That's awesome. Thank you. This is great. It was awesome. Thanks, you guys. That was awesome. I appreciate you guys having me.

Absolutely. Until next time, don't be triggered.