Blurry Creatures - EP: 464 Dynasty of Slaves: Finding the Exodus in Ancient Egypt with BLK SHP Scott

Episode Date: September 15, 2026

For a century, scholars have searched for the Exodus and found nothing. Scott from Black Sheep Bible Talk says they are looking in the wrong century, at the wrong pharaoh, for the wrong catastrophe. Move the lens two hundred years earlier, to 1446 BC, and the evidence starts clicking into place like a key in a lock. A pharaoh named Amenhotep II whose mummy is scarred with boils. A successor who was never the rightful heir and had to carve a monument explaining why he sits on the throne. A missing generation of firstborn sons. The story the Bible tells was never absent from the record. We were standing in the wrong room.From there, Scott lays out a chain most people have never heard. A pharaoh who marches into Canaan and drags back the largest slave haul in Egyptian history, because he suddenly needs to refill cities that just emptied. A tomb painting at Beni Hassan of shepherds from the east that may put a face on Abraham himself. A governor named Salatis in Egypt's own king list who lines up name for name with Joseph. Nate and Luke go two hundred years deep with a guest who has spent years building the case, and by the end the Exodus looks less like myth and more like history hiding in plain sight. This Episode is Sponsored By: https://fondregenerative.com/ - Use the code BONEZONE for 15% off your order of real, nourishing bone broth and more! http://blurrygold.com/ - Get a FREE Gold & Silver Kit while supplies last! https://livemomentous.com - Get up to 35% OFF your first order with code BLURRY - Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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So if you live in America's hat, you can get it as well. And the UK. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com. com slash blurry. You watched the Prince of Egypt. The Angel of Death passes over, but then goes into the Egyptian homes and it's all little children that are dying. Yeah. And I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. It didn't say little children. It said they're firstborn. The firstborn are not all children. The firstborn are not, like, I'm not technically the firstborn. But like, there's, I'm going to be first born. Adios. Adios, Luke. Yeah. Yeah. So like the targeting was not, hey, we're going to take all of their

children and make them really sad. It's, I'm going to go and take all of the heads of the household. So it was a military strategy. It's a military strategy and it's not this like cruel targeting children. It's specifically targeting the heads of household. It's the assassination of the leaders of the clans. The history of our earth is so different from what we can imagine. The Smithsonian, if they found out about a large skeleton somewhere, was to go get it. I'm going to assume at least one person is right, because if one person's right,

it bust the paradigm, it all goes back to the fallen chair. And the problem with the modern day church, they have a very truncated view of the supernatural. This backdrop that's just pregnant with all kinds of meaning associated with this Mount Herman event. And this guy defects from the kingdom. That's a big deal. Luke, this show's going coast to coast today. Blurry creatures, we got our guest is from Jacksonville, and I'm Beeman in live from Mount Herman. in Santa Cruz, California, not the real round Herman, down in the apex of the vortex is what you like to call it. Yeah.

Very close to the mystery spot in Santa Cruz. There are no threats of hell, hopefully, at this Mount Hermann, since the Christian summer camp for families and kids. But we're having fun today. We've got Scott from Black Sheep Bible Talk is in the house today, and we're going to be talking about dynastic Egypt and the evidence for the Israelites actually being there. And this is, believe it or not, this is a contested issue when it comes to archaeology.

But you've been doing a ton of work. You've got, you host a show on YouTube. You are finishing an MA in Biblical Studies at Baptist University of Florida. Nate was a former Baptist, so he's walking right alongside you there. I think I'm still Baptist. Are you? You still baptizing. I don't know.

That's good. It sticks with you. I still believe in baptism. It's fine. There you go. Yeah. Yeah. Dude, we're glad to have you on the show. We're going to get, we're going to get into it. 200 years. We're going to move the lens 200 years and talk about evidence that was never missing for Moses, the Israelites, and the epic of Exodus.

But first, Nate. Yeah. This is your first time in the show, Scott. So we have to. You can't be the only black sheep out there that we don't ask this question to. So what are your thoughts on Bigfoot? Well, I mean, I was going to ask you a question. I actually rehearsed this question on my way up here. Let's go. I like rehearsed questions. Or is there more than one big foot? And if so, is it big feet?

This is a great question. For sure. There's a comedian that I loved who would, who had a bit on plurals, Nate and Scott. And it was like, it was like moose and moosen, you know, or ox and oxen. And it was trying to figure it out. The one I always go with is when I lived in Wisconsin for a year. So shout out to Wisconsin. They talk about beer, right?

And instead of saying I had like two beers or five beers, they say I have five beer. And their logic, which is really hard to refute, is like, well, how many deer did you see out there? Did you see four or five deer? Or did you see five, four or five deer? You know, and I go, okay, I get it. But I don't know about Bigfoot. That's a good question. Bigfoot, big feet.

Well, it's funny. Over time, Scott, I would say Bigfoot doesn't even sound like what it's just. It's like it's become its own actual name, you know, but you're, it's just the most generic name for the creature that ever. He's probably mad that he wishes he had a better branding. Like, that's all I'm known for. I don't have a cooler name like Gargantuan or something. You can actually, you can switch vernacular if you need to. You can go, there's a pack of squatches out there.

Saskwatches. Well, yeah. Well, actually, let me think about this. There are 14 Sasquatch. This is, see, now we have a problem. It's the same problem. See? Because I'm thinking, like, it's hard no matter what.

If we got another, like a, is it a Pruder film? Is that what it is? Yeah. If there's another one and this time he's like holding hands with his girlfriend, is that two bigfoot's or are we looking at two big feet? This is, I think that along with Bigfoot would be maybe an enduring mystery. Yeah. At least for now.

It's like the end of Harry and the Henderson's when he walks off with his family. Yes. How do you describe that scene, Scott? Yeah. They look at all those bigfoot. So that's it. That's all, that's your thoughts? Yeah, we got plural.

We're on plurals today. It's a big deal. I assume that we were all going to be on the same page that big foot's a thing. It's just a matter of how do we, how do we like classify him? What's the taxonomy of big feet? That's just great. I mean, so if you have the skunk ape down in Florida, which you do. Oh, oh, I've got stories about skunk.

Well, give us one here. This is what we're here for. Oh, my son. So my son is a civil war reenactor. And but the very fact that I'm mentioning. I love that, dude. The very fact that I'm mentioning him on blurry creatures. creatures, he's going to lose his mind. But he was, I drop him off on the weekends and he does his

his civil war reenacting thing. And he brings his grays and his blues just in case, you know, he needs to fight on the wrong side. And I won't tell you which side that is. That's great, though. Like, we leave it a mystery. But one time he was walking from like the ball or whatever, where they go to the dancing back to the camp and you have to walk through the woods. And he said he was absolutely certain that he, that he came across the skunk ape on the way back between. It was like in the pine scrubs of North Florida. Yeah. And he, he said, he said, said he stood there for a solid 20 minutes waiting for it to move. He said he was looking up in this tree. He said it was not the shape of anything like moss, like we have, you know, Spanish

moss in Florida. He was like, it's not that. It was not that. It was not a tree branch. He said it moved at first and it froze when he froze. And he stood there looking at it for 20 minutes. And then he slowly walked off and it just kind of fitted into the dark. It was pitch black. But he thinks that he saw the skunk ape in Florida. Do you smell it? No, he said he didn't smell anything. Interesting. This one was well groomed and well bathed. Yes, I guess so. Maybe he was upwind. My son's name or the skunkake. You can shout him out.

Oh, his name is Lucas. Lucas is a great name. Oh, Lucas, what up. There's only a few of us out there. Good to know you. No, I shout out the 37th Alabama. Shout out the 37th Alabama. They're in Florida, but they're named after the element.

Let's go. He didn't see the eyes or anything? No, he didn't. No, it froze when he froze. He said it was moving. And then when he froze, like a split second later, it froze. And it was like a standoff. And then he heard some people, you know, kind of,

coming up from behind him and he felt uneasy about it so he left but he was 13 at the time well you know you know scott luke likes to do trivia in the office uh with our you know a big trivia staff around and asks him about the top three states of bigfoot side yeah we've done this before yeah yeah and florida makes it florida makes it oh yeah there's the usual suspects like washington state like you know obviously like Washington state and then typical north west but Florida actually ranks up there in the top three, at least the time that we pulled the numbers. I don't know what we've gotten anything different because all that stuff in Ohio that happened with the Ohio flap, right? Nate, we did an episode on that.

I hope that bumped their numbers up, but I think Florida's still in the running. And who knows? You know, maybe sometimes they misidentified Florida man as a skunk game. I was going to say. There's a lot of weird things going on. I wonder if that tracks also with the type of people that live in the region because I imagine that Missouri, the Ozarks is probably up there as well. there's just some interesting folks in different parts that might see things.

Well, dude, let's get into it. So for people who are listening to the show and introduced to you for the first time, quickly, can you talk about what Black Sheep is and what questions you guys keep poking at or trying to answer and really what you're doing with your channel? And then we're going to get into the book after that. But let's just introduce our audience to you and what your ministry and what you do. All right. So Black Sheep is, I didn't intend it to be.

anything other than just me making the videos, videos about the things that I'm interested in, which is probably not too far off from what you guys started. There's probably a lot of other people that are interested in the things you're interested in. But I'm interested in biblical history, in the mysteries of history as you go further back into biblical history, things get blurrier. You get less and less clarity as you get further and further away. And so I wanted to bring my experience and learning from my academic side into something that's a little bit more accessible to normal people. I think Dr. Heiser actually called it Middle Earth scholarship or something like that. There's like the church side Sunday school where you kind of get the application

but not much depth. And then you get the scholarly academic side where it's all depth and it's kind of hard to parse like what's going on. And then there's the middle earth. And he felt he was in that space. And I was like, you know what? I want to be in a space with Dr. Heiser. I mean like, I'm not going to actually rub elbows with him. But like that's something that think it would be helpful for people. So that's what I kind of do. I try to bring the scholarly world into something a little bit more accessible and I do it through mostly storytelling. So I try to teach through the stories of biblical history, not just kind of spouting facts and dates. That's awesome. So what about the book then? So you said you spent years writing this book and we talked

pre-roll and so I'll share that. You said this is actually probably the second, the middle book, if you will, in a series you're writing. But you started with Egypt. And you know what? Why here? And what about this like scratch an issue for you that you wanted to to dive into the archaeology? Because this is a big topic. If you're listening, we talk about the pyramids, Nate. We've talked about construction of the pyramids and the sphinx and how old. And is this antediluvian?

And we've gotten into what are the pyramids? Obviously they're not tombs, et cetera. Yeah. We also talked to Joel Richardson about Mount Sinai, you know. Oh, okay. Yeah. The location of Mount Sinai. And yeah.

And the crossing. You know, where they crossed. and even some Noah's Ark stuff too a little bit with him. There seems to be like the local stories of where these things happen and they seem to know because those stories were passed down from generations. And then there's like the modern where people want it to be. And we could tell early on that those two things didn't usually correlate. So which is good for I think people who are skeptics to be like, look, there's evidence that it could have been this place or that place. You know, and it doesn't discount the story.

And we're looking back through a couple thousand years of church history fog of lore and mythology. I mean, the medieval times was this massive run of superstition that was mostly disconnected from reality and disconnected from biblical, like the biblical story. When you hear Fawn regenerative, Luke, what do you think of? They go, hey, that's the Fons, actually. I think of Wolverine just being able to regenerate back in the day when we were watching our kids. But that's not the Fond regenerative we're talking about. What we eat should not be a mystery, and that's where Fawn comes in. Fawn was started at a farmer's market in 2015 by a couple.

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my mother-in-law came to town recently, and she made some pasta with the bone broth, and it was phenomenal. That's fond regenerative.com code bone zone for 15% off your order. So we're looking back through time and kind of parsing what have church fathers said, what have, you know, church leaders said who were not necessarily in the apostolic or the patristic era. And then we're trying to kind of parse what's, what's real or what's reliable, I should say. So like you get to the Sinai question. And historically for hundreds or maybe over a thousand years, the place in the southern Sinai Peninsula has been like the, of course, that's Sinai. And now, for the most part, that's mostly not what people think. Mostly people think it's actually in the

Arabian Peninsula, like Northwest Arabian Peninsula. And so, Of course, when that first kind of starts to shift, people get really upset. Yeah, because you're messing with tradition, right? So these people have, whether you like it or not, if you have a thousand years of pilgrimage to a singular site, you've got to really like bust through all of the pageantry tradition.

And people don't want to let go of those things very easily. Even if you have a lot of evidence to say, hey, was it Helen that just picked it kind of? That's why I honestly. Yeah, it's the mother of Augustine, Augustine, I'm trying to think of who. Yeah, that's Mother Augustine. Yeah, and she went down and she found the church of the Holy Sepul.

Founded the Church of the Holy Sepulch. And then this is Sinai. So you've got, I mean, church tradition and all these things you go up against. And I think it's not different than a lot of ways than what we're doing here with Egypt, right? Because as we go to Egypt, academia will say there is no evidence for Exodus. We look, we're looking in it's not there. And so tell me what. what you're contending and why you believe

that we'll be looking in the wrong place. And what's happening when we look for evidence of all these slaves, a million people leaving Egypt, Moses, and people like, you know, Zawas and all these Egyptologists and everybody else and traditional Egypt tradition will say, it's not here, this never happened, right? We didn't have a million people to leave Egypt

or leave the desert, there's no Moses. We're taking on a big machine of academia here when you're doing it. this. So where do you start? Are we looking in the wrong place? Yeah, we're looking in the wrong place. Just as, because I know that you'll probably get comments. I think it's actually the mother of Constantine. Constantine, sorry. Augustine. Fix that for me, Ben. Same era, same millenn, or same century. Yeah. So it's the mother of Constantine Helen that picks out these places when she goes on her pilgrimage. And this, yeah, it predicates a lot of different things for,

for what we consider the holy sites in the holy land, including Sinai. Yeah. So if you're writing your comment, correcting Luke or me, right now we figured it all right we got it um yeah so the the problem um that i identify in the very introduction of the book is that uh for a very long time we've been looking in the wrong century looking at the wrong pharaoh looking at the wrong set of circumstances and if you're looking at the wrong century you're not going to find israelite slaves you're not going to find a catastrophe you're not going to find an exodus you're not going to find a sudden population decline in egypt you're not going to find economic hardship nothing right it's the

zenith of Egypt's power during Ramseus the Great, his, Ramsey's the second, his, like, that's when Egypt is at its peak. So you're not going to find the Exodus there because the Exodus was devastating to Egypt. Why, Scott, why, why do you think that's the local, or the era that everyone has looked for this at? What's the reasoning that everybody goes to Ramsey's the second? There's literally just one thing. And it's in Exodus one, it says they built the cities, the store cities of Pitham and Ramesses. Okay. And so they say, oh, well, there you go.

The city of Ramesses was built by Ramesses. And so they must have been, like the writer of Exodus must have been identifying that Pharaoh as the one that he wanted to connect his lore to or his mythology to, a great pharaoh and that, you know, the story of the Israelites was toppling the great Pharaoh of Egypt, and they wanted to connect the lore to that.

And so this is kind of also partly, partly connected to this documentary hypothesis that says that the Old Testament, especially everything from Kings forward or Chronicles forward, I guess you could say, was written during the Babylonian exile. And so this academic theory called the documentary hypothesis that says that nothing of that was history. It was all mythology written to kind of catch up to the ancient near eastern Babylonian histories. And so they stole from the Epic of Gilgamesh. They stole from the Atrohasis. They stole from all of these things and created their own story. And that, they kind of connect that too well.

Obviously, Ramesses couldn't have been the Pharaoh of the Exodus because he was so powerful. And therefore, it's all mythology. And I disagree. Yeah. And why? What is it biblically speaking? Because you're biblical historians. So what is it that you think they're looking in the wrong place?

Well, there's a couple of things. I mean, the Bible itself says that the temple was built 480 years after, began to be built 480 years after the Exodus of the law was given at Sinai. And so that puts us, well, we know fairly certain when the temple was, the first temple, to Solomon's Temple, was going to be built or began being built. And so if you go 480 years before that, you end up at 1446 or 1445 BC, not 1,200 to the 13th century BC, which is where Remusies is, you go right past that all the way to the 15th century BC and a completely different dynasty altogether.

And so the dynasty is, is it, the whole, all of Egypt is in a different situation politically and economically. There, there starts to, you start to see like the chronological key fit in the lock and the pins start to click in place like a key does. And so once you do that, you move to 1446 BC for the Exodus. You can see the story unfold. You can see Israel there. What's, what's happened? What's different? Can you kind of lay this at the scene, if you will, for what's different about 1446 BC and the Ramsey, like the epic of or the zenith of Ramsey?

What's happening in Egypt then that makes it much better fit in your mind for this saga? That's the whole book. So like there's a lot of pieces. Really there are so many pieces that it was worth writing a whole book. And even the book itself is not all the pieces just because I didn't want to, I wanted to make it accessible. But you get the pharaoh himself. Most people who have an early date for Exodus, they typically will take a high chronology of the Egyptian chronology because Egyptian chronology has three different versions of itself.

There's the high in the middle and the low chronology. So you kind of have to take the high chronology, which is the original idea of the timeline of Egypt based on their own kings list, which is also kind of itself late. That's by an Egyptian historian named Mnatho. So if you take that high chronology and you take the early Exodus, date from based on the date of the temple. Then you end up at 1446. You end up with a pharaoh named Amenotep the second, who's the Pharaoh of the Exodus in that

case. And then you say, okay, well, does Amenotep the second match and line up with the guy that we see as the Pharaoh of the Exodus in the book of Exodus? And you start to see actually, yes, that makes much more sense, right? He, we found his money, his mummy is covered in boils or scarring from boils. He has a son who becomes Pharaoh, but that son who becomes, becomes pharaoh is not the legitimate heir. His name is Tupmost the fourth, and he has to build, he created a steely, which is like one of

those like big, I say concrete, stone carved tablets with a story on it. And in his story, it's kind of like a proof of why he's the legitimate Pharaoh. And we would say that's because the legitimate air died in the 10th plague, right? And so the story lines up. There's something else connected to Aminotep the second. that I think a lot of people don't realize, or don't know about, I guess. But about a year or two years after what we would say is the Exodus, Amenotep II goes, leads a campaign into Canaan.

He leads a slow campaign, so no chariots involved. He leads a slow campaign into Canaan, and he brings back the largest slave hall that's recorded in any Egyptian history at all. Over 100,000 people he brings back from Canaan, from the land like Egypt was a Canaan was like a vassal state to Egypt. So he went there, brought back over 100,000 Canaanites as slaves. And it's like this steely that shows he's, you know, like a victorious king, bringing back like a lot of slaves. And there's no reason to bring back that many slaves all at once unless you had a sudden loss of a lot of slaves right before that. And you need to replenish

because otherwise you wouldn't have domiciles. You wouldn't have a place for all 100,000 plus people to live or put them to work just out of the blue. You'd have to kind of create, you'd have to build a city to house them when they got back. But if the Exodus had just happened, there's an empty city waiting for them. There's empty slave, slave domiciles ready for them and work to be done as soon as they get back. So this is after the, so let's go, all right, let's go to the beginning. I want to lay the case out here, if you will, for this. I know that we can start in 1876 BC. Yeah. And that's That's kind of that's where we begin to see. Yeah.

Where did the book, the Patriarchs are, because obviously before we have this Exodus, we have the story of Joseph and him being in Egypt and rising to power. But where that's where you kind of started the book. So who is Abisha and why does the painting on a tomb wall matter to the story of Abraham and to the sort of the, to unraveling the history and setting the stage for the patriarchs that will eventually allow for the rise of this population

of ancient Hebrew. and Israelites in Egypt. Yeah. Back in the 80s, sitting in this basement, watching episodes of Mr. T. And the iconic man had more gold hanging off his neck than ancient Egyptian kings. I hope he held on to it

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But only while supplies last. So take control of your family's financial security. Head over to blurrygold.com right now and claim your free kit. That's blurrygold.com. One more chronological piece that needs to kind of be established is the idea of or establishing how long Israel would have been in Egypt. Yeah. And most people traditionally would have said 400 or 400,

30 years. Most people don't realize that there is a discrepancy between 400 or 430, depends on which passage you read. But most people would say generally they've been taught 400 or 430 years for the amount of time that Israel was enslaved in Egypt specifically. I don't believe that. That's called the long sojourn theory. I take the short sojourn theory, which is based on Galatians 317, where Paul says that the time from the covenant given to Abraham until the law at Sinai, which is only like a month after the Exodus, was itself 430 years. So that would put the timeline from Genesis 12, the establishment of the covenant with Abraham until Sinai as 430 years.

The entire time of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob sojourning in a strange land where that's not their land in Canaan. And then also including all the time that they were both sojourning in Egypt, which they weren't slaves immediately. They enjoyed a time of prosperity and also the slave. slavery. So all of that time together is 430 years. We can count how long from Genesis 12 until Jacob enters the land of Egypt. And that time is exactly 215 years because of the age of Abraham, how long, you know, how old he was when he had Isaac, and then how old Isaac was when he had Jacob was when he went into the land. We don't have to do all the math. That's 215. People can

check it if they went to, which is exactly half of 430. So that 430 would be split into two time periods, half of it sojourning in Canaan as strangers, and then half of it sojourning in Egypt as strangers. And then if you're walking back 430 years from 1446, you end up at 1876. And there's a painting in Benny Hassan, which is in Middle Egypt, kind of halfway between Thieves and Memphis, which would have been like the two ancient capitals of Egypt at the time. Thebes would have been, would have been like the religious capital where the priests were, and then Memphis would have been like the military capital with they were, you know, running from Memphis is where they were running their campaigns into Levant, like Canaan and Mesopotamia. And so right between there,

there's this tomb called the tomb at Benihassan, the place is called Beni Hassan. The tomb is of a guy named Knootep II. He would have been a no mark. So a no mark's like a, like a governor or like a lord or something like that, a duke or whatever, who had a noble. Like a noble. Yeah, he had his land. The whole system was feudal at the time. So like he was responsible for his region and he would pay tribute to Pharaoh and they would go to war when he called them to war, but he was responsible for Middle Egypt, that kind of that space there. So Canumotep, the second himself, was like royal but like removed, not like blood, not like Pharaoh line, but still like an important person. He has a big tomb. And in that tomb, there's a bunch of paintings

of all his accolades, all the things that he did, right? These hunting and fishing and all this kind of stuff. It's a beautiful tomb. And on one part of it, there's this caravan of traitors, of people who don't look Egyptian, who are, uh, led by a guy named Abisha the Amu. And then behind him are a handful of people. There's an inscription that says what they are. It says there are people from the east, shepherds or herdsmen from the east,

which would have been like Levant area. And they came with 37 people. And they were trading Stibium, which is like the eye paint that Egyptians used. It was very valuable to them to paint their eyes black. Smoky eye. Yeah, they had that smoky eye look at. Some like,

some seductive. Yeah, I was going to say, some seductive training there. Oh, yeah. The Horace eye. Yeah. Anyway, so Abisha, the Amu has been this famous thing. He's called the Amu, and the word that's translated Amu is Egyptian, the word is

Hekakashet. And so that has kind of Hellenized later, a Greek-Eyes later, to be the same people as the Hixos. The Hixos were about 215 years later, where the people who were the ruler, of northern Egypt in the land of Goshen. These Hixos were foreign kings, they were shepherds, and they were from the same line, the same family as this Abisha, the Amu guy. Now, Abisha is not Abram or Abraham. His name was Abram in Genesis 12 when he goes in.

By the way, I'm referring to the time when Abraham goes into Egypt in Genesis 12. He has this awkward exchange with Pharaoh and his wife, sister wife, Sarah, which by the way itself was a legal exchange. She was a sister so he could do this thing. But he used the same laws that governed how he was allowed to take Hagar as a wife. And he applied the same thing to how he could sell, essentially sell or trade Sarah as a wife in exchange for goods. So there's some things in that story that are that reach back to Err 3 of the Sumerian culture that allowed him to do it without it being a sin, which is a whole other story. But so, so Abisha. Abisha and Abram are not the same name, but Abraham wouldn't have been called Abram at the time.

He didn't speak Hebrew. Hebrew hadn't developed as a language yet. We don't have any script of Hebrew until a couple hundred years later. If he came out of Err within a decade before that because he was really just moving straight through, then he would have spoken Acadian, not what we consider like Hebrew, even ancient Hebrew. And Acadian, Acadian is the language we know. We can look at glossaries of Acadian. We can look at nameless in Acadian, and we can see what the word Abisha actually means, or the name Abisha means.

And it splits into two, which is Abhi, which is the same front or the same prefix as Abram, which means my father. And then the back half of Abisha is, is Shah, obviously, but the, there's a, there's a, what's the word? A rule in Acadian called a hypochuristic. Like a grammatical rule. Like a grammatical rule, right, yeah. So like, Nate, is your full name Nate? like a Bargazzi where it's really like Nathaniel or something. It's Nathan. It's Nathan. Okay, you're Nathan. I like you pull the brigazzi. Nathaniel. Yeah, it's Nathaniel. Yeah,

it's Nathan. I don't know if you have time in trouble traveling with. Nathaniel's another country. Nathan, Nathan is well established here and the realm of reality. So you're Nathan. Nathan, Nathaniel. It's all the same. We have this idea that you would be, you know, we call you Nate and it's not weird or whatever. They had a same kind of concept that you would take a longer name and shorten it. And so they would take the name, they would take the ending of a name and they would shorten it. It's called a hypochoristic in Akkadian. Yeah. And it would take, like, for example, the name Abishar and the shortened it to Abisha, right? It's not that big, it's obvious. Let me be like, okay, that's normal. Abishar means. Ancient nicknames. Yeah, ancient nicknames, exactly.

And so Abishar means my father is king or my father is exalted, like a politically exalted, which is what Abram means. Abram means my father is exalted or lifted up. But Abraham, my father is exalted, is actually like an elevation. Like my, Godfather is high above elevation-wise. So there's another cognate, which is like a written, like a connecting point in the languages, where it's not Abishar, but Abis Shadu.

And there's, again, this is all but from Akkadian name list, where Abiyah Dhu is shortened to Abishah as well. But Shadu is the same cognate original word as Shaddai. They both mean the mountain. They both mean mountain. So like we would say that El Shaddai means God of the mountain. And it's translated in Exodus is God Almighty, but it literally means God of the mountain, El Shaddai.

And so that comes from the Acadian El Shadu, or Il Shadu, their high god, Ilshadu. So if you have a guy who walks in and says, my father is exalted, my father is the god of the mountain. He's gonna say, my name is Abishadu, or my name is Abishah. That's how he would say it when he presents himself to Cana-Mabishu.

We just call me Abishah. Abishah. And so you have Abisha, the Amu, Amu, which is a foreign eastern herdsman right there in the tomb of Benny Hassan with a shepherd staff and a coat of many colors, followed by family, women and children and soldiers and musicians. And when I kind of started to put all this together, I was like, this is Abraham painted on the wall of this tomb. I don't see any other person now, other than Abraham painted on the wall. And this is how many years before, again, for our listeners? This is 1876.

So this is 430 years before the Exodus. Yep, exactly. So you have Abraham or a very good argument. I love this. It reminds me a lot native conversations we have with Dr. Judd Burton when we run through the semantics of like Rafa and Raphaim, and we break down all of the cognates and the grammar to find out what these root words mean and what they're trying to communicate. And, you know, Judd would argue that linguistics and language are actually the best way to discover or to discover or

to transfer history or to uncover history based upon cognate's root words all that. Yeah. Where do they start from? Yeah. I mean, I agree. I have never heard of say that, but that makes sense. I mean, we tell history and we get to tell a version of our own history. And so our history, all history is from a perspective. It's all in some way, some kind of propaganda in that regard. But the language, you can't really fake your language and where your language came from and where it went to. And so where there are linguistic cognates, you can really see overlap of cultures. And there's heavy overlap between Hebrew and Acadian, Hebrew and Phoenician, and then the Hebrew script of Hebrew and Egyptian. I love it when like a scholar discovers something

blurry because Judd called us. Like, dudes, I got this big discovery. We're thinking he found a cave with giant bones. And it's like, it's like this, you know, the language raw means this. And we're like, That's it. He's like, dude, it's Raphaine. It's Kings. And we're like, all right, let's do an episode. Oh, I'm like, this is a highbrow discovery, Jed. You've got to speak to us layman down here.

A lot of my work is actually linguistic work. It's etymology of words and where they came from. And for me, it really does open up a lot of things. My video is coming this Friday is going to be that exact thing. It's on the idea of the name of Ra connecting to a particular name of God in the old Testament that is like this transfer of faith from I believed in raw and trusted raw, but now I believe and trust in the God of Abraham. And it's right there. It's in the language. The rumor is, Luke, that the ancient giants had a nonstop supply of endless creatine just flowing through their veins,

which made him grow so tall and smart. I never heard that. But I bet they had a ton of pre-workout on deck, too, because they were a little bit intense. So if you want to compete with that ancient energy, what do you do? Well, listen, creatine just isn't about building money. anymore. In fact, it's one of the most research and effective supplements available. The category is exploded. And to find out all kinds of things about this supplement, you know, it seems like on a daily basis. It's good for cognitive function. It's good for your gut. It also helps you retain muscle mass. It's phenomenal for men and for women. And we like mysteries here, but when it comes to our creatine, we don't want any mysteries in terms of ingredients. We just want creatine. And that's

why Momentous Creatine delivers 10 times fewer impurities, two to five times tighter heavy metal limits and PFA's microplastic screening, so there's nothing, there's no weird stuff in it. That's literally why we chose and why Momentus created signature spec creatines. Their most advanced creatine ever sets a new quality standard for creatine. And even more, they've improved the product experience with ultra-fine powder that mixes easily with no grit or clumping. I have mine in the morning before I have my coffee. I mix it into my protein shake. And listen, from the protein powders to the vitamins to now the creatine, we take Momentus every day and it helps us keep our brains blurry. than ever. I really love all the products Mementis puts out. They are top shelf, top notch,

and this creatine, the signature spec creatine, is on a whole other level. I would recommend this to anyone that's looking for a better creatine product. So if you want to try Mementis signature spec creatine, head to LiveMomenus.com and use code Blurray for up to 35% off your first order. That's livemementis.com promo code Blurray for up to 35% off. LiveMementis.com, promo code blurry. From like a 50,000 foot view of what you do just for our listeners, like we've talked to a lot of, like Luke said around the pyramids, like people who are kind of budding heads with a modern Egyptologist, trying to figure out like, who could have built these, how old are they, all these kinds of things. And it seems, though, is like we're catching up to the Bible is more accurate than anything. And we're kind of catching up like, oh, we thought it was this guy, but it's really, really, really this guy. Oh, the Bible is more true. Next, next case. Yep. It's true again. It's true again.

It's true again. But are you fighting like the academic system because it doesn't want to, it doesn't want to give any credence to the Bible? Is that kind of what you're fighting up? Or is it just old school systems that have just been in place for a long time and lots of money for education? What is it? I think over and over we find that the, the history of the Bible turns out to be very, very accurate. Now it is written from a perspective. Right. I mean, it's a covenant perspective. It's got, God's covenant people writing about their covenant relationship with God. And so we don't get much context for the other people in the world at the time or how far those people go back, whether

there were people before Adam or whatever. Like, we don't get much context because that's not what it's about. And so it's definitely written from a perspective, but it's not written from a perspective that's so skewed that is not telling true history. It's just telling true history from a, from a certain eyewitness perspective, which is kind of how we understand all of history. And that was really like Mike Heiser's contention was that like all this is written. within a cultural context. Yeah. Right?

And so it's not an exhaustive encyclopedia Britannica on all things in the world and how they work and what they are, et cetera. It's actually like the story being told from an ancient Hebrew perspective

that had cultural context. A lot of it was understood, right? But I want to get back, so I want to get back to what you said. Yeah. So we've got, we potentially have Abraham as Abisha on a painting

on a tomb, 1876 BC. And that's not accepted, right? Like, as Abraham. So I was, So I was researching that, and then I found later that Chris Ames, Christopher Ames, from the Armstrong Institute of Biblical Studies or Archaeology or something like that.

Sorry, Chris. He had already written an idea, like kind of like positing the idea that Abisha seems a lot like Abram. But he didn't go into the linguistics at all. He didn't really go into the depths of Amu versus Emeritus and where Abraham came from. But he did posit the idea before I got to it. So I didn't, I wasn't the first to realize that. I just realized, hey, there's more. there. So how do, so if Abraham, if Abram, Abram arrives and has a 250 year sojourn,

am I correct in saying that's what you laid out, then how do we get to Joseph and how do we connect someone coming in from this lineage and in this arrival of Abraham to being like second in command in Egypt? How do we find anything in because that's where we have to go if we're going to get to Moses, right? They go, Abram shows up, all of a sudden second in power, and then slavery. We'll get to that. But like, how do we, how do we get to Joseph? And is there evidence for this linear story in what you found in your book?

Yeah. I mean, if Joseph was as powerful as the Bible says he was and was so consequential to saving Egypt during a time of famine, surely he shows up in the historical record. And that's one of those things where, like secular historians or just people, who refute Exodus, the reality of Exodus, would point to. They say there is no guy named Joseph, or even Zarafath Panea, or ever pronounce his Egypt's name. There's no record of a guy named that in the Egyptian record. It's like, okay, but there is, just not that exact name. There is another name for Joseph in Genesis that we don't typically call a name. We call it a title,

but it's there. And so typically, we would point to Joseph not just being a vizier. So a vizier. So with Vizier is typically like the right-hand man to the king. But he's also called the governor of Egypt. Governor. Govna. Yeah. That word there is the Hebrew word shalit. Okay.

And the word shalit is, it just means governor. It's like a common word. It doesn't have much spiritual meaning to it, right? It's just kind of plain, which is why I think most people kind of read past it and don't really realize it's something special. Well, fast forward a little bit. There's this guy named Mnatho, who I mentioned a minute ago. He has a history of the Egyptian. kings and we have our dynasties mainly primarily because of Meneatho because he put them into

dynasties. And so we can identify the families of pharaohs in their dynasties based on Manathos historical work from about 300 or so BC. He's a he's a Hellenized Egyptian writing from Alexandria before the burning of the Alexandria library. So we would assume he has access to some things that we don't have access anymore. Well anyway, he writes about the Hixos. He writes about this pestilence that moved into northern Egypt that conquered without a sword. And then the first king of these Hixos people that conquered without a sword, his name was Salatis. And Salatis in Manitho's writing in Greek, Salatis is Greek always adds like suffixes, right? So like Ease or S or whatever. If you take the Greek, the Hellenized ending off of that, you're end up with Salit,

which is the same name, again, like linguistic cognate, as Hebrew Shalit. And so when Menetho is identifying this king, the first Hixos king, who conquered without a sword and then reigned there for a hundred years. Him and his family, he's got five kings in the Hixos line, the Hixos dynasty, which is called the 15th dynasty by historians identifying Mnathos line. This Salatis lines up perfectly with Joseph as the Shalit, the governor. The Hebrew is called the governor, Shalit. Meneitho calls him Salatis, which is also, has no word. By the way, there's no Greek word for Salatis. There's also no Egyptian cognate for Salatis. It's just a name, or at least from Manathos perspective. But the timing of Salatis's arrival and arising to the throne to become

the king of northern Egypt is about 1661 BC, which is precisely when Joseph is rising to the top of the cream of the crop, I guess you could say, in northern Egypt. when Joseph or when and then let's seven or I guess it's maybe maybe 13 years after that that that Jacob comes in with the family to avoid the famine. Huh. So that lines up chronologically with Joseph. Is there anything within like this history of him being like an outsider? Like as you said like the what is it the the Hiscoes? Like they are those peoples that came as Abisha. Is that is that correct if I'm connecting these things? Yeah. So Mnatho identifies Salatis as the first Hixos king, which is the descendant of the Hecacachshet, which is the same guy, the same word used for Abisha, the same family.

So essentially, Manetho is connecting the Hixos and Abisha as the same family. You fast forward a couple hundred years. This time they come back, not to trade, but they come back to settle. And the first king is the one, oh, this is, when I forgot, the way that King Salatis conquered northern Egypt is by controlling all of the grain during a time of famine. Yeah. That sounds spot on. Okay, you have a different name for him, but like how close do you need to get to the same story for it to not be the same story? This is incredible. It's like a 50,000 foot view. I've never really thought about it like this. Are you saying like the Bible is obviously the story of God's people kind of going on a journey and they kind of dip into some another culture. They come out of it. And so we don't really get a lot on the other culture. We're.

we just kind of get like they were here, they were hanging with these people, then they went this way. And in every other culture, there's different names for the same people, right? Yeah. Is that kind of like the overview of people that are just trying to figure out, like, what are we talking about? Yeah, that's what he was saying. I don't want to answer for him, but he was saying that, like, at this point,

there, Hebrew isn't a written language. Right. And so we're talking about dissecting names based in the language that would have been used, right? And also in some of the, what, Arcadian and Egyptian, Yeah, I mean, another connection here is there's a lot of people that will say there's no evidence of a large Israelite population in northern Egypt during this time. And it's like, well, I mean, number one, there is. There's a guy named Manfred Beattach who was a, he's still alive. I say was. My bad, sir. He's still ticking. I emailed with him. He didn't, he didn't love my conclusions. He said he got kicked out. He was the lead archaeologist in Goshen in the city called Avaris, which is later renamed Ramesis. But in the city of Avaris, where there's a large Semitic population that he's uncovering.

There's a tomb with a guy in a multicolored coat in a little pyramid tomb surrounded by 11 other little tombs in the backyard, I guess you could say, of the palace there in Avaris. He uncovered not just that, but that there is a mixed multitude. There wasn't just Israelite or like Proto-Hebrew kind of people there. There was also other people from Canaan, other Semitic people from Canaan, which it's like, we, get that actually, we get the same story coming out of Exodus. We all know that there are a mixed multitude coming out. It's not just Israelites coming out. That's all of Goshen. We call it Goshen from scriptures. They called it the northern delta or the northern kingdom. He calls it Avaris. I mean, they called it Horvarez. He found the name. When I emailed him about it, he said,

yeah, actually, I got kicked out of Egypt because my discoveries were being used by my religious historians to show proof that Israel was there. And they canceled my my contract to like allow, to disallow me from digging. The funding. They just pulled his funding. They just pulled his funding, pulled his allowance to do it.

And he said, hey, he hasn't been able to go back. And this has been like 20 years since then. Yeah, we've heard that a lot on, that seems to happen a lot to people in the blurry verse,

you know, whether their YouTube gets scrubbed or they, you know, you kind of wonder like if, if they're early on in their career, they don't really have, they're not established,

so they get booted. And I, another question I've always had on their show, Scott, I don't know if you can answer this, but it seems like Egypt itself is very, like, it's probably one of the most popular, like, non-biblical places, you know, like, and there's the Holy Lands, and then there's just, like, Egypt's always coming up in story. Is there some reason? Like, even before, like, there's a story within a story of Egypt, because it seems like we can,

you know, when you're growing up in the church, you're always hearing about this place more than anything as a kid. And then you're like, it seems to continue to come up in the conversation. I just wonder if there's like a history there, but maybe you've uncovered that kind of goes back even further, that there's something going on. Yeah, I mean, if you go back to Genesis 10 in the Table of Nations, you get Mizraim, which is the ancient name for Egypt. It was later changed to Egypt by Alexander the Great, right? Egypt, Egioptica. And so like way back then, it wasn't called Egypt. It was called Mizraim. And it was a descendant of Ham. And so you have this like, kind of this older idea that the descendants of Ham went kind of south and the descendants of

Shem kind of went east and the descendants of Japith kind of went northwest. It wasn't a perfect split. They didn't like say, hey, you go that way. I'll go this way. But it was roughly that direction, right? And so like from that point forward, the people of northeast, I guess you could say northeast in the Horn of Africa, Africa, become very interesting. into the story of Israel, into the story of the covenant people, I should say. And so, like, you get one of the first interruptions, one of the first, one of the first kind of disruptions, I should say, of what's going on with the covenant people from a guy named Nimrod, who is over in Mesopotamia building cities, but he's a Kushite, so which is like just south

of what we would call Egypt, Ethiopia kind of area. But he's like, he's not where he should be, I guess you could say, not that he should have been somewhere, but like he's identified as a son of Kush, but he's over in Mesopotamia, building cities over in Mesopotamia, that one of them becomes Babel. We have the rebellion and dispersion at Babel. And so Egypt and the story of those people are continually interacting with and disrupting the covenant people, the story of the covenant people, over and over throughout the Bible. And that starts really in Genesis 10 before even Babel is erected. Oh. So then how do we, so yeah, so let's continue the story. So we, We start, we find Abisha, then we can,

we find a character there that is the Joseph character. We see this rise of these, these folks, the Hiscos outsiders up into almost a dynasty of kings, but then in order to follow this exodus story, they have to become slaves. So what happens here and how do we find that in the Bible and how do we find that in your story of history? Because how does that happen?

And what are we seeing here? What do we see in the Bible? What do we see in the Egyptian history that lines up with this? So according to Mnatho, the Hixos had five kings and they reigned for about 100 years. And then we can corroborate that with just archaeological history. That's not contested. That Hixos wore the 15th dynasty reigning in northern Egypt for about 100 years. The second king in the Mnatho king list is named Bonon as the second king after Salatis. Benon doesn't really sound like a Bible character

until you look at the name that Benjamin was given by Rachel when he was born before his name was changed to Benjamin most people don't kind of remember that his name was Benoni when he was born and then which is to say son of my son of my son of sorrow and then Benjamin changed I think son of my right hand

or something like that to Benjamin. I mean Isaac He didn't want an emo name he was like any someone He's like I like I like this kiddies He's probably going to be the last one I should name him something better He sounds like an emo band We've got to switch this up. So he's got the second king has the same name as the favored,

as the favored brother of Joseph really is what that is. And then you have three more kings that we don't, don't show up in Egyptian history until the last one. And don't show up in the biblical history at all. But the last one's name is Apepepe. That's the last name of that last king of the Hixos. Now, Apepepe by this point, about 100 years after Joseph has really established himself as the governor, the Shalit of the north.

And the Egyptians were still living. in the South, they still had their own dynasty in the South. Well, a few generations later, a peppy, well, I guess we'll back up just a second. The Southern Egypt was having to pay tributes to the Hixos in the North in order to be able to do trade in Asia because the Hixos in the north, like controlled the trade route, you know, through the land bridge there between Africa and Asia. It's like the straight of Hermuz. Exactly, that same kind of thing. So they're paying a tribute. The Southerners are playing a tribute to the northerners. And the northern king gets a little bit of, maybe, you know, like a late night party or something like that. And he decides it be really

funny to send a letter to the king in the south. His name was Second In re Teo. And he sent a letter saying, hey, you need to shut your hippopotamuses up because they're keeping me up at night. This is a letter he's sent. And they're 500 miles away. And Pepey's like, shut up your hippopotamuses or kill them. And Second Inre Taio has had enough of it. He considers that like an insult that needs to be responded to. And so he marches north with his army to, uh, to fight King of Pepe. You're like, don't sully my hippopotamus. Yes. Yeah. It's like an insult. It's like to pick on a fight kind of thing. And so second in reteo bites and he gets bitten. He gets slaughtered in that, that first battle. So the, the Kings and the King Navaras, they're well known to be chariot,

like to be chariot drivers. And King of Pepe attacked them on land and they just got annihilated. His son, Camos, did the same thing, got annihilated. But then Camos, his brother. the other son of second in reteo his name is amos almost the first he becomes amos was like you know what my father and my brother tried to march on the north i'm going to do it differently he builds a fleet of boats there's little like uh like reed boats in in egypt floats them up the nile because you guys know the nile is the it flows north so he floats it with the current moving fast north his entire army not on land where the chariots could have any kind of power floats them north and then it spreads them out in the Delta because Avaras was in the middle of the Delta, which is like a bunch of different like tributaries

splitting off of the mile into Mediterranean. And so he surrounds the city before they can even react. And essentially he takes the city without much of a fight at all. He takes the city and expels the story is that he expels the Hixos leaders, the Hicksos like royal family, royal and also all of their kind of like military. They run to the east. And then he enslaves the population. Like the Egyptian history is that the Hixos, the elite were expelled, but the people, the Semitic population, were enslaved. We have literal records on, like scratched onto walls. And one of them that specifically is Amos, son of Abana. Amos, son of Abana, not the Pharaoh.

He's like the admiral of Amos's fleet of ships that move north. And he has given gold of valor, which is a reward for the victory at Avaris. But there's something really specific. He's given slaves of the Hixos. And so we have a very unique record of the enslavement of the Hixos. The only enslavement that I'm aware of, and maybe some Egyptologists will correct me, the only enslavement that I'm aware of if anybody that was already in the land. So these aren't slaves that are brought in.

These are slaves that were there and enslaved in place, you could say, like they stayed there. And the slaves were, some of them were enslaved in the location as like hard labor. And then some of them, a very small portion of them were enslaved as people that were. living like house servants, I guess you could say. And those were some of the slaves that were given to Amos, son of Ibanah. So we have a record of the enslavement there as well. Wow. Yeah. It's, it's, it's great to talk about these things because we just had Jeremiah Johnson on and he was talking about basically the same thing of like, you know, faith, we have faith in these things, but there isn't at the absence of evidence. There's a lot of evidence there that supports all

these things. And now it takes faith to go, okay, there is a Christ figure in history. Now do you believe he's the son of God, I think that's where the faith comes in. But there is no debate if Jesus was, you know, existed and was there at the time. And there's all these clues and you have to find them. And I think that modern people have this interesting thing kind of looking back going, okay, these are they're all lining up. Is there more evidence coming out every day? Is there more reason to suggest that, okay, the timeline that we were shown in scripture is, is actually, we're seeing more clues and it's lining up perfectly. I believe so.

I mean, I mean, like, I'm not much of a prophecy guy, right? I don't really deal in future stuff. I'm more of a past stuff. Like, the future for me is so blurry. I can't really see it. I'm not a guy that, like, you guys have guests on here that really do good prophecy work. Sure.

And I listen, I'm like, oh, that's amazing. And I have, like, I'm just in all of the prophecy guys, it just doesn't click for me. Well, we get some weird past stuff too. Like Ryan said Joe, Ryan Peterson said Joe built the great pyramids. and I'm like, yeah. You know what I mean? I disagree.

I don't know about that. It's an interesting line of thinking, though. I mean, you can follow logic there, yeah. We can talk about that some other time maybe, but I've got some contravening evidence for that. So let's go back to this thing. So we've got these stories of evidence, the Southern Kingdom, conquering the Northern Kingdom, which was ruled by the Hisco, which we have drawn, we've created this case throughout the episode now about the rival of Abraham

and the rise of Joseph. and this being what the Egyptians called the Hiscoe peoples, which ruled, and we knew that. And now they're enslaved. We've got Egyptian record for this. So then what happens next? How do we get from this enslavement to the story of Moses? Because this is the crux, right?

This becomes the Exodus. Moses is found in a basket, and they have the story of the Exodus. But where do we go from the enslavement of the Hiscoe peoples as we find in this? And the evidence of that being, the biblical Semitic peoples or the ancient Semitic peoples and then we have Moses arrive on the scene

and where do we place that and how does that story begin? Yeah, so you would think, the same problem with Joseph. Like if Joseph was such a big deal, wouldn't we have him in the record? And it turns out I believe that we do, right? He's just not called Joseph or Yosef or whatever. I believe the same thing with Moses. If Moses was such a big deal in Egypt,

even before he fled, he was adopted as son of the daughter of Pharaoh. That's a big deal. That's a big deal. He was raised in the house of Pharaoh. Pharaoh. That's a big deal. Wouldn't he show up in the archaeological record? And the answer is, yeah, of course, you would. Now, so the timing lines up with a guy named, I'll just cut to the chase, it lines up with a guy named Amin Mos. Now, I'll say this, I'm minority, this is a minority view, only because it's never really been posed before. So this is brand new with my book is

kind of what came out, right? This is hot. This is fresh and hot. Hot fresh, yeah, exactly. Most kind of like guys in this space would identify Senenmut as Moses. who Senen Mutt is like an advisor to the Pharaoh and to the rural family. He tutors the daughter of the Pharaoh Neferuri. He, and he disappears, and then his, like, he's disgraced, kind of. And so you kind of get some hints of Sen and Mutt in the story of Moses, sort of overlapping. But Senn and Mutt was never adopted by the family.

Sen and Mutt, we know Sennon Muts' father and mother and siblings. And so, which is, that's not what lines up with Jacob, you know, in the story of Miriam and Aaron. Aaron. And so it doesn't line up perfectly and kind of have to do a little bit of like kind of forcing it to fit. So I didn't love the idea of sent him on it. I studied it out. I was just like it didn't fit. And so I started going back and looking who else is there? And there's this one character, this one guy, this one young man who once I started reading, but nobody talks about him because he, because he disappeared from the record, the historical record when he was young,

fairly young. As a young adult, I guess you get in his 20s. Or at least he disappears. from the record in his 20s. But he has, his name is Amen. His name means born of Amen, right? So born of Amen. His last name is, or his last name, his second part of his name is Moes, which is just being the simple meaning of born of.

So you have like Tutmose, which is born of Tut and Amos and Ramos, and Ramos, these are guys that are born of their particular God. Amin Moses's mother is named Queen, Queen Amos, the first, or really Queen Amos. She's the wife of Tutmos the first. And these are a bunch of names you guys. probably are kind of getting jumbled with a lot of other Moses, Mozy names.

Right. But she's first and foremost, the daughter of Pharaoh. She carries the title daughter of Pharaoh, which is the specific phrasing of the woman who adopts Moses in Exodus 1, or Exodus 2. The proximity of Moses's family would have been, like I said a moment ago, that some of the slaves were taken and became household slaves. we know from the biblical record that those people that were taken as household slaves were Levites. So the Levites became like slaves of priests and slaves of royal family and house butlers and

footmen and all that kind of stuff, which explains why Jacobed and Miriam would have been close enough to put a basket of a baby with a baby in a basket near the Pharaoh's daughter and how Miriam would have been able to like within be able to see it happen and then walk over boldly and speak to the daughter of the Pharaoh. she would have been in the household of the pharaoh. Like she knew. You weren't getting close to the household of Pharaoh if you were brick making bricks. Exactly.

You're not, yeah. And plus, we know that the brickmaking from history, the brickmaking was up in Goshen, and this would have happened in Memphis, which is maybe 100 miles south, right? So this is not in the same neighborhood. Exactly. So Queen Amos has two sons. Well, I should say Tutmos, the first has two sons. There's Wajmos and Ammonmos.

Now Wajmos is, He dies, and we have his tomb record, we have his funerary. He became a funerary cult for about 100 years. Wajmos dies, and he dies young, like 10 years old or younger. Ammon Mose doesn't die young. In fact, Ammon Mose is the opposite of that. Ammon Mose becomes the great overseer of soldiers. He becomes the general of the Egyptian army, which kind of sounds odd because in Exodus,

we don't see Moses as the general of the army. But we do see that in Acts chapter 7 when Stephen is preaching, right? Stephen's preaching this great sermon before he's martyred. And one of the things he says is that Moses was mighty in words and in deeds. And so this particular phrasing, mighty in words and in deeds, especially mighty in deeds, points to a military mighty mighty mighty. You know, like the word mighty often is a military mighty mighty in the Old Testament, right? We know this from even like the mighty men of old kind of thing. They're military mighty men.

And so Moses being identified as a military mighty man gives us a little hint that Moses was not just a kid sitting in the Pharaoh's palace. and kind of sipping wine and eating grapes until he killed a Hebrew taskmaster, right? Or killed an Egyptian taskmaster over Hebrews. But the story really gets much more interesting when we read Josephus, Jewish historian writing in the first and second century, Josephus says over and over that when he writes

about Egyptian history, he's referring to Manetho, which we don't have all of Menetho's history. He's also referring to Ardiphanous, which is another Alexandrian historian historian around the same time. Josephus says that Moses, was the great overseer of soldiers, that Moses was the general of the armies of Egypt, that Ammon Moes, or that this Moses,

went down into Kush and won a great victory in Kush for Tuttmosh the First. And we have a record of Tutmos the first winning a great victory in Cush. This is an, this is Egyptian history that we have. And then out of Cush, Amin Mose is, he's the great, the victor of the battle and overcoming the Kushites.

And he comes back as a victor. We have in Numbers chapter 12 that Moses is accused by Miriam and Aaron as loving his Kushite wife. Now, the most common spoil of war was to take the daughter of the king that you just conquered and take her as your wife, sort of essentially like your spoil of war. And so the story would go,

and this is also Josephus saying the same thing, Josephus says this, that Moses took the Kushite wife from his conquering in Kush, still had her with him when he was in the desert in Numbers Chapter 12. And Miriam and Aaron are upset that he has something left over from, in his life left over from his time as an Egyptian prince, which makes sense. I mean, like, we know about Zaporah.

We don't know about this Kushite wife, but there's this hint that Miriam kind of accuses him of keeping the Kushite wife. So this is the same story of Ammon Moose. Now Ammon Moose never became Pharaoh, just like Moses. after Tutmos the first when he dies, there's Tutmos the 2nd and there's Hatshepsuit, which is another daughter of Tutmos the 1st there. And then Tutmos the 2nd, he's sickly, he dies. And then Tutmos the 3rd comes into power.

And all of this is happening while Ammon Mose is still alive when he should be the heir to the throne. Because he's the son of the daughter of Pharaoh. Right. Right. So Hot Shep's suit has to make up the story. She famously claims divine right to rule as the second technically, female Pharaoh. And she even like, the statues of her have her with a beard and like with the male like male headdress making look her look like a father of the country, but she's a girl. So Hot Shep suit claims divine right to rule from Ra himself saying you'll be the Pharaoh.

The only reason you would make up this story is if there was somebody else contending for the throne that had a good call to the throne. And you needed to overcome that with some divine story. Right. You're like, well, that's good. But like, huh. But God said I am. Right. Now, Hotchep's suit, some people have said that Hot Shep Suit was the adopter of Moses, that she was the daughter of fare that adopted Moses. But the problem with Hot Shep Suit being the adoptive mother to Moses is that Hot Shep's suit in her tomb, chose to tell the tomb scribe before she died, make sure they know that I hate the Hixos people. She calls the Hixos people a pestilence on Egypt and they should be, that they should have been wiped out to begin with. So she actually hated the people that Moses came from. and would not have been the type of person to adopt this Hebrew baby, because we know from Exodus chapter 2 that the daughter of Pharaoh knew he was a Hebrew baby, hotchips who didn't like the Hebrews. So I don't think Hotchipsuit was the adopter of Moses.

I think it was Queen Amos, and then Amin Most, the son, by the way, Queen Amos was called the God's wife of Amin. Amun. So she was the wife of Amun, and she had a son named Amun Mos. So she would have claimed that he was the son of her union, with Amen, the God Amen. It was her job to... Sounds very Nephilim.

Yeah, it was her job, yeah, right for this. It was her job to stimulate the God Amen toward fertility. Oh, interesting. I don't know if you... I can read between the lines there, yeah. But that's her job, and then she has a son named Aman Moes,

who is this powerful, great general, and then he doesn't die. He disappears from the record. Oh, and there's just no more. And then there's no more Amin Mos, mentioned anywhere. So we're gonna... Scott...

Well, I just had a question, like, how overview again? I know that we talk a lot about history, kind of be rewritten. You have these guys in there. They seem to be pretty morally inclined to tell the truth. Is that an ancient thing? Or is there like clever rewriting of history, too, that you guys discover of like, oh, they won, so they kind of rewrote it as this. Who do you mean are the ones that are morally inclined to tell the truth?

You mean like the historians or the pharaohs? just like cultures of ancient times when they're when they're trying to retell their truth I mean obviously we we talk conspiracy theories all day that like things were cleverly disguised or is that is that a common theme throughout history like when you're digging through the past like to include some of these guys and you know would have been would have been a controversial or it's just been like no this is you know what I'm saying I know what you're saying and it wouldn't have been done at all yeah so Egypt is famously and this is one of those things that's been that uh

Heahuas probably would even like conciliatorily agree to, right? He would he would say, yes, Egypt, yes, they're very propagandistic. Yeah. Yeah, they don't actually. We find, we find no records of Egyptian losses or defeats, ironically. Undefeated. They're undefeated, right? We only find steelys of victories.

We only find steelys of interactions with the gods that bless them. We only find records of times of plenty, not times of famine, where the gods would have failed them. You know, there's no record. Like, Egypt is famously propagandistic, even to the point where later dynasties would deface and rename former monuments or former monolithic things in their own name. So, like, famously, you scrub them and they put their own, like Ramsey's, for example, there are things that have Ramesses names on it. Like, bro, we know you didn't build that.

That's a completely different style of building. It's a different technology. like it may not have been, we can get into, we don't have to get into this, but it may not have even been Egyptians that built it. But they do it constantly. Like you see lots of pharaohs with their noses knocked off. And of course, Egypt, Egyptologists will say, oh, that was erosion.

I'm like, the rest of the thing is fine. The nose is knocked off from erosion, an eroding hammer. Like the, like the mode was to disgrace a former rival from a, from a previous dynasty that had been glorified or magnified, but by knocking off their nose to disgrace them. They would do that to their own people, right, to their own people in the past that they didn't want to be associated with.

How much more would they have no record of the people who annihilated them, or the God, really, rather, who annihilated them in this event that happened in 1446? So we've got Prince Amun Moes, which sounds a little bit close to Moses in the back end, which is fascinating. Yeah, linguistic is right there.

Yeah, and as a candidate, you're a candidate for Moses. And we were, what, what dynasty are we in here for? 18th Dynasty. So if we're in the 18th Dynasty, of all the pharaohs, how many pharaohs rule in this time? Well, you have from,

it's from Amos is the beginning of the 18th dynasty to, I think it's Tuttmost the fourth after Ammonotep the second. Yeah. I think that's where it ends. So then why do, why Aminhotep the second, right? So if we're to carry this story forward and we've identified, the patriarchs of the Bible are here. Now we've got a very good candidate.

for Moses because he's raised by the, this is a son raised by the daughter of Pharaoh. It makes sense with the story of his, of his mom and sister being there. And then he disappears. And he's a general according to the, sort of the definition of Mighty, if I recap this correctly. So then we've got to have a Pharaoh, right? And this has been the big question, right? Because everything's been, if it's Ramsey's and that's what people have wanted to say, there isn't, there's not evidence within that, that chronology for. for the plagues and a famine. But then you say, and you said early in the show

and overvis this, that Aminhotep 2, his mummy has boils. And so aside from that, what's different about this Pharaoh in the 18th dynasty that makes you peg this as the spot historically for the Exodus along with the other characters that we've already talked about?

Yeah. So, I mean, aside from the year, I mean, the year we know that Aminotep the second from the high chronology is Pharaoh in 1446. But there's other things that corroborate. This is one of the things I like to do in these historic investigations is finding the corroborating evidence. If it's just one piece, it's like, ah, that's kind of, it's easy to push over a piece. You know, it's harder if you've got a stool with a few legs under it.

Yeah. It's harder to topple that. So I like to kind of build some legs under these things. So Amenotep being Pharaoh in 1446 is a big one. But the second piece is that we know from Exodus that part of the reason why Moses was in Midian for so long was it was waiting for those who sought his life to die. And we know that that happened with Tuttmos the third, which was the longest reigning Pharaoh in all of the 18th dynasty. He reigned for 30-something years. And he died about four or five years before Moses' return.

So he dies in about 1550, or 1450 BC, 1451, 1450 BC, about five years before Moses would return. So he's waiting for a regime trade. She's like, oh, we've got to get this. Yeah. All the old hitmen got to pass away. Exactly. Yeah. So, like, part of my book is kind of piecing together the.

motive, right? I do kind of the detective, like, not just the evidence, but what's the motive there? And so I find, I believe that there's a motive of keeping Ammon Mose out of the throne because Ammon Mose is a Hixos. He's not an Egyptian, right? And they had disdain for the Hixote, not just because of racial, but they had disdain for the Hixote because Moses would have been in the lineage of the people who had been, who their great grandfather had cast out. Like Amos, the first, wasn't just a guy who defeated them and enslaved them. He was called, in the Egyptian record, the great liberator of Egypt. He unified northern and southern Egypt in a way that gave the 18th dynasty its source of pride.

Like Egypt was this, I mean, you can imagine if we had a character who George Washington had personally defeated Cornwallis, let's say. And then some, like, some descendant of Cornwallis was running for president. We might be like, wait, hold on a second. I mean, like, he might be technically an American born here, but like, do we really want a descendant of King George III or Cornwallis running for president? And maybe we want to vote for somebody else. Oh, yeah, like Benedict Arnold. Yeah, like his great-grandson is run for, like, let's let's throw him out. Just for the sake of national pride, let's not put a cornwallis or an Arnold in the White House.

And so, like, he would have been more than just a foreigner. He would have been a symbol of the Hixos making their way back into the throne. Right. So the oppressors of Northern Egypt. Yes. So you would have been like, from their perspective. Again, because history is written from perspective. So he was liberating, almost was liberating the Egyptian people from the rule of these outsiders.

These non-Egyptian outsiders. And so you have this cabal within the palace. This is the way my brain works. You have this cabal within the palace. We don't want Ammon Moes. He's a Hixos. We can see it. We can look at him.

He looks like a Hixos. We know the story of his adoption. And we know he's not fooling anybody. Grandma didn't actually sleep with the God Amen to have him. This is all lore. We know the truth about this. We're not actually God. So that was the claim then.

So let's just to go back to say it. So the claim was by his adopted mother is that he was the son of a God. Yes. That's why he looked different. Yes. So Moses was anaphylum, if you will, right? I mean, by definition, and everybody there's like, nah, bro, this is not it. Even the circumstances around his adoption in Exodus chapter two, you see like oddities with it, right? She sees the baby, he cries, she has compassion on the baby in the basket. And immediately Miriam comes over and says, hey, if you need a nursing mother, if you need a nursing mother to take care of him while he's a baby, because obviously you're not ready to do that, then I know a woman. Her name is Jacob, we know it's Moses's wife. And so there's an exchange of deal that's made between the daughter of the Pharaoh, I believe, Queen Amos, and Jacobabat to take care of him until he's old enough to come back into the household.

It's like it's his real mom. And when he comes back into the household, that's when he's adopted as son of the daughter of Pharaoh, son of the queen. And that is when like the strategy kind of reveals itself of we have another son. And Wajmos, the frail child that is not going to be the king. we have a good healthy baby boy who was given to us by divine interaction, maybe a Nephilim style, Genesis 6, Mount Hermon. Mount Hermon, where you are, you can look around. Yeah, baby. So you have this story, and the point is that it wasn't until Tupmost the third dies, which is years after Hatshepsuit is dead.

And all of the people that are in the Pharaoh's house at the time are dead. That's when you have a Minotep the second come in, and that's the same key, the trigger, for Moses to come back into the land. And what's different about this rain as opposed to like a Ramsey or anybody for that really, your mind is just, is just a lot. You talked about a key, right? Yeah. This fits because of what happened during this rain, according to the history, the lines up with what we see in Exodus. Yeah.

So Amenotep II is well known as the sportman or sportsman feral. Like we have inscriptions and paintings of Amenotep II on chariot, on the back of a chariot, which they adopted. they kind of co-opted from the Hixos. So by the time he gets to Amenotep the second, they've got chariots and he's the chariot king. He's like the Teddy Roosevelt, right? Yeah. He's running around, doing the rough riders.

I never thought about it. That's actually a good point. Because he does go on a conquest himself, right? He does, he's like a very much like Teddy Roosevelt. He hunts. There's lore about him being able to shoot an arrow through a certain number of brass plates. He went on a Sasquatch hunt too, by the way. He went on a Sasquatch hunt.

Teddy did, yeah. Teddy did, yeah. Teddy did. Oh, Sasquatch. Teddy did? Yeah. He hunted him. Yeah.

That's the rumor. Yep. That's fascinating. Do you all have an episode on that that I could? No, we don't. It's documented in Bigfoot lore. Oh, I see. Okay. All right.

So, and much like, if we're going back to this, so much like Teddy Roosevelt, who, of course, did the Rough Riders, he went on these crazy expeditions to, like, be a cowboy. And he had this whole, he was a sportsman president, even while he was president, but before he has this whole history of being kind of like, you know, a wild dude that went and did stuff, right? Yeah, that's Amenotep the second, yeah. Interesting. He was a hunter.

He was, he was, he was prideful about it. He was the strong king. And he had big shoes to fill. Yeah, yeah. He had big shoes to fill also because Tuttmos, the third was the conquering king. He's the one who went and brought back and, like, you conquered all of, all the way to the Euphrates kind of thing, right? So all the way to the Mesopotamia.

And so his son, Aminotep the second is this sportsman king and filled with pride. All of his inscriptions are about himself, not his conquering, really, because he wasn't really much of a conqueror. He was a hunter. sportsmen, and there are all these inscriptions and paintings of his, of him, like not his accomplishments, but just how cool he was, which maps pretty well to a prideful pharaoh that was just stubborn and digging his heels in for 10 plagues straight until the final one kind of breaks the back.

It also sounds like somebody from like, you know, who lives their high school glory days, so wears a lot of his jacket at our age, talks about all the things they did and we would have won state, like, you know, out of gone pro. It sounds a little bit like that, which is fascinating. Yeah. What about things like the losing the firstborn of the nation, you know, army, you know, a slave labor force exiting. We find to find any of these things in the record when it comes to Hamintotep the second or what? Yeah. So I mean, like, yeah, because we know we just talked before, like, you know, a lot of dynasties and civilizations don't record some of the bad things that happen. They sort of skip over that. But are we able to find any of any evidence for these things as. this pharaoh who really does fit the timeline as we're drawing it out. But what about some of these, you know,

forensic evidential things? Well, okay, so there's one of the big kind of smoking guns, in my opinion, that this is at least, okay, so even if you didn't concede this is real history, at least it was written contemporary to the time. Right. Is the nature of the plagues with the nature of the gods of the time? Because by the time you get to, if we have Hebrews or Jews in Babylon writing all of this history from a thousand years later,

they don't have the contextual history of the gods of Egypt to be able to refer to, right? They're a thousand miles removed and a thousand years removed. And so the very fact that the plagues line up so perfectly with the gods of Egypt, and it specifically says in Exodus, I will execute my judgment on all the gods of Egypt.

He's just saying outright, the plagues are about to just specifically target the gods. Moses, you go back in as the rightful heir to the throne, not wanting the throne, but wanting the people. I'm going in as the rightful heir to the cosmic throne, dusting off, wiping off these other little gods from receiving worship that was due me the entire time. And so you have this two thrones that are kind of in contention here in the period of the Exodus. We know, I mean, from our perspective that the gods were set

over the nations, but then they usurped the thrones. And they were, they put themselves in between the high god and the people and received worship themselves. It's done of Doodormy 32, right? It's dividing the nations. They take and they take worship. and they're corrupted and then they're judged at the cross. And there's another one in Deuteronomy 4 that points to the same exact thing, that the sun, moon, and stars were receiving worship from these other peoples. And that connects perfectly to Deuteronomy 32. So the plagues themselves targeting each one of the major gods of Egypt.

And then the final one, well, the ninth plague, the darkness targeting Ra himself. And then the final one targeting Pharaoh and the Pharaoh's claim to divinity himself. So he targets the firstborn. And of course, it's not just the firstborn in the Pharaoh's firstborn. It's of all of Egypt. It's all of Egypt. All of those who don't put the blood on the doorposts. And a lot of people will say, man, that's so, I mean, you watched the Prince of Egypt and the angel of death passes over, but then goes into the Egyptian homes.

And it's all little children that are dying. Yeah. And I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa. It didn't say little children. It said they're firstborn. The firstborn are the heads of household. Like, the firstborn are not all children. Right.

Like, I'm not technically the firstborn, but like, there's, I'm. I'm. How to be. You're at first born. Adios. You'd be gone, brother. You'd be gone. Head of household. Yeah. So like the targeting was not, hey, we're going to take all of their children and make them really sad. He, it's, I'm going to go and take all of the heads of the household, all of the leaders of the people, the group, all the people groups, all the no marks like Knootep. I'm going to take all of them along with the, the son of Pharaoh. Almenotep, the second was not the first. I was to ask that because, yeah, because he survives.

You were picking up on that. A metotep the second wasn't the firstborn. And so you have the... So it's a military strategy, you're saying. It's a military strategy. And it's not this like cruel targeting children. It's specifically targeting the heads of household. It's assassination of the leaders of the clans.

And then, of course, to be the right Pharaoh in this time period, you couldn't be the firstborn because the Pharaoh would have died. Right. And he needs to survive to see his judgment. Right. And this is part of... That's wild. I mean...

And there's no evidence to suggest that they knew they were... They knew how to, like, sort of circumvent this by putting blood on their doors. I didn't. Well, not in the Egyptian, right? Not of a nor of anything. I mean, like, I assume that there was some maybe rumors being spread around, hey, the Hebrews are all killing the lamb and putting blood on their door? Are we, should we?

That would sound whack? We've had some, we've had some crazy things going on. Should we just, like, start doing what they say? Ah, don't worry about it. It's not real. So there's a lot of evidence for these plagues then. Are you saying? I believe so.

I believe the, but the evidence isn't in the, isn't in the Egyptian record from a, this is the thing that happened and this happened and this happened. It's the evidence is, in my opinion, in a lot of people's opinion, there's no way that writing later they would have known about the specific gods of these specific gods and how they would have been targeted culturally for the people. That would have been, at the very least, written contemporary to the time of Egypt during this period of time. So there's one more piece. Yeah, go ahead. There's one more piece. You said why they're notep the second.

I said there's three legs. There's, of course, the timing, the boils, the, the, the Tutmos, the third dying ahead of, ahead of, of time, there's one more piece, and that's Aminotep the second's son. His name is Tutmos the 4th. He's not the oldest. He's the second oldest, because Aminotep the 2nd oldest would have died. The second oldest was Tutmos the 4th, and we have a dream steely. I don't know if you ever heard of the dream steely. I have. We haven't talked about this show. Between the Pauls of the Sphinx. It's like a very prominent position. It's been there since it was created, right? It's never been moved. And it's the story of Tutmos the 4th claiming divine right to rule through a dream

saying that he would be the next Pharaoh. And the only reason you claim divine right to rule is if you're not the one that everybody expected to rule. And there was somebody else that would have ruled in your place. So it all lines out. Wow. Yeah, the key really does click. It does click. And so part of what you've talked about in the book then is that you call Exodus a divine foreclosure. And we've talked to sort of a little bit here about Deuteronomy 32. So this is a nauseam for our listeners, but a lot of the reason this show exists

is because the work of Dr. Michael Heiser and the unseen realm. And you were talking about this is like a divine foreclosure. This obviously is a judgment. But you say it's the first domino that eventually brought down the Bronze Age. And can you talk about that a little bit

and what you think is happening here on a macro scale as well? because this is, as always, and this is the conversations with Dr. Joel Matamali, Nate, is like that there is this thing that happens in the physical and what he calls cosmic geography. There's the, Jesus is, the ministry and life of Jesus is intentional in its location for material reasons,

but there's a whole cosmic reason. Yeah, for the reason Jesus shows up at the foot of Mount Hermann. Yeah. You know, and it's not, there's no accidents here. Or crosses the Sea of Galilee and interacts with a legion in the Decapolis. Yeah, 100%. These are all like, these are, these are cosmic warfare as well as well as as part of a very material ministry. Yeah.

So what's what's happening here in your mind as far as the divine foreclosure? So I did not coin the term divine foreclosure. I can't remember exactly. It may have been from Dr. Heiser in one of his sessions. It may have been from Derek Gilbert, maybe. I'm not even sure. G.G., what's up, Derek Gilbert? Shut out.

The divine foreclosure. It sounds like losing your house in heaven or something. Yeah. It sounds like the book. CS Lewis is working on never finished. They were sitting on thrones and God kicked them off the throne. That's kind of the idea of divine foreclosure. And he was jealous, you know, we have a jealous God who requires that he worshipped and no one else.

And so this is what's happening in the plagues. The divine foreclosure is the beginning, really the Exodus, is the beginning of a crumbling that happens. Now, in secular history, they would point to, there's a great book. I mean, I've read it twice. It's a fantastic history book called 1177 BC, and it's written by a guy named Eric Klein, and it's all about the collapse of the late Bronze Age. So he points to, traditionally people would have pointed to the Sea Peoples and say, well, the Sea peoples came in.

The Sea peoples were like this people that came across the Mediterranean, maybe Greek, maybe Mycenaean or something like that. Or Phoenicians. Maybe coming around from Syria. And they come in and they kind of wreak havoc for a couple hundred years. and over the course of time, the havoc that they wreak undermines the foundations of... It's like ancient Vikings, right?

Yeah, exactly. They just show up out of nowhere. They even had headdresses that were very Viking-esque. Some of them even wore helmets with horns. It's crazy. Let's go. It's like the Vikings had history or something like, we should look like the sea peoples.

So most people say it was just the Sea Peoples, but Eric Klein points to a whole plethora of things that were undermining the foundations of what was otherwise a stable civilization in the late Bronze Age or the middle Bronze Age, and then into the late Bronze Age. Now, the Sea peoples are very, I mean, it's biblical history

would point to the Sea Peoples as the same people as the Philistines. So the Philistines in Philistia, the Sea peoples first arrive in Egypt and they fight with Ramesses, actually. He fights a battle with them. And then it's kind of like, it's not a lot,

the way it's recorded is like he didn't lose, but like also they didn't leave. So they wouldn't have recorded it as a loss anyway. But they settle in Gath, but we understand. is like the strip of land along the southeastern Mediterranean between Egypt and Canaan. Gath, we know people. Simple famous people came from Gat.

We know some tall guys with lots of fingers from Gath. But those sea people settled there. That's the same area as the Philistines. Of course, Goliath shows up as if or with, I should say with the Philistines. That's a mercilessar. And so the sea people wreak havoc. But we have this record of the judges in the scriptures that for the most, part, people haven't really been, done a, have had a difficult time placing the judges in

archaeological history. But Eric Klein names all of these things that are happening and over the 200 years leading up to the collapse of the late Bronze Age in 1177 or the rough, roughly 1177. And it lines up perfectly with the things that are happening in the book of judges with the judges. Like we have the collapse of the metallurgy and the, the 10 trade that leads to essentially the opening of the Iron Age later. But we, we know that. that that happens to Israel because the judges have to start using like jaw bones of asses and like ox goads, right? The sticks with the point of the end on it because the Philistines have capitalized the 10 market and they can't make bronze weapons anymore. And so they have to go to the Philistines

to even to get their farm tools sharpened. So like they have to go down. It says they go down from the mountains to the Philistines and get their farm tool to sharpen and then they go back up. And so we see Samson with a jawbone of an ass. Just smoking. He's like, you know what? I don't have you to use a tool. give me some foxes. I'm going to go get some foxes. I'm going to light their tails on fire. It's a wild stories. Exactly. In the book of judges, a tent peg through Jail, a tent peg through the head. We get almost no weapons in the book. We have, we have EHood with a sword or a dagger, but a left-handed assassin. But like, for the most part, they're lining, it lines up really well with it. I'm not going to go into the details of it, but there's,

there's short-term famines and there's earthquakes, there's the collapse of the tin trade. There is the incoming sea peoples that we would identify as Philistines, which is where Israel first starts to fight with the Philistines. It's in the Book of Judges. And so, like, while the Israel, all the tribes of Israel are kind of in the highlands in Canaan, kind of the hill country of Canaan, along the coast, the sea peoples are essentially controlling trade along the coast. And we see this exact thing happening in the book of judges over and over, where there's the same kind of unrest we see in judges is what Eric Klein and other people, of course, but Eric Klein really. really tells the story really well in his book.

Wow. That would begin with the exodus of Egypt. It began with a minotep. They began with the collapse of the economy in Egypt. Ah, that's the connection. So they lost their army. So they lose their army, they lose all their slave labor. Leave their slave labor and their cherry tree. They still tried to project power into the

Levant, into Canaan. But, and so they, what they, so Egypt had vassal states all throughout Levant, right? So all the way up to, to the border of the Hittite Empire up north. And in the far west as the Assyrians over, you know, Babylonians over to the Mesopotamia. And so they would project power by having garrisons of soldiers. But we know from history that those garrisons, while they were still there, were like ghost towns with a few soldiers per garrison,

trying to maintain a grip on Canaan, but not being able to do it. And we know this because, like, well, we know this from history that, like, after Amenotep II, goes and receives, goes and gets slaves, he doesn't go back to Canaan ever again. He goes on no more conquests. He conquers nobody. He does no more. military maneuvers after he goes and gets the slaves. He just leaves some people in garrisons. And that is really the open door for the sea peoples. So when Ramesses is fighting the sea peoples, he's dealing with a diminished presence, even though he tries to project power into Canaan. He's got a heavily diminished presence in Canaan on the coast, not in the hill country at all.

And it's the sea peoples coming in, moving in, and finding sparsely populated or sparsely manned garrisons. that makes it very easy for them to settle in the land and bring about the collapse of the late Bronze Age. That's wild, man. It's like, yeah, I mean, it does line up. I love this case. I think it's so interesting, as you said early in the show, the more that we dive into the archaeology,

the more that we find, the more it seems the biblical text and the biblical stories are confirmed and supported by the archaeological evidence, which has been a large content. attention in the past was that, oh, once we used to make these discoveries, it's going to just prove the Bible wrong, but it seems to be quite the opposite. Exactly the opposite. Yeah. What did, I guess my last question for you then is, what are, what are some of the pushbacks

that you see, you've had with your, with your, with your story, with your research, with your your theory about this timeline and these folks, you know, what is it? What do you hear people to be like, ah, you know, that's, this, this is, I mean, I know you know, you know, you know and think that you're right with this. So what are the holes? Yeah. What do people say are the holes? Because I would like to address those and just say, here's what you believe what you believe.

Because people will say things like maybe the Brooklyn Papyrs Save List, things like that. You know, there's also just, you're going up against a massive machine of traditional archaeology and Egyptology that don't want to, as we pointed out, your friend that was doing the research in Goshen. They don't want any. My friend. My friend. Oh, your. Beatech, Man, friend. Beate.

An actual scholar. You know, you're palbiatic. Yeah. Oftentimes, when you come up with something that runs counter to the narrative, the funding goes away, right? Yeah. And if there's not funding for your research in this sense, it would be just sort of this narrative about, you know, why potentially this isn't the right place.

Like historical fiction or something like that. Yeah, yeah. It's always that way, especially with Christians. I mean, this is not a new thing, right? If you're writing something that will affirm the Bible in the biblical text, you're going to run up against a lot of academia and folks. Well, that's what it is. Yeah. You're having a legit archaeologist on soon, I think, right?

I don't want to give up what you're going to get. Okay, okay. I wasn't sure if I'm allowed to say, I don't know. But he's legit, right? He's got his doctorate and he actually goes to Israel. He runs, runs Dix and I think Shiloh, he runs. Yeah, Shiloh's his big one, yeah. The tabernacle.

But I haven't, so, so there's one hole that most people point to, and they would say that Ammon Most died young. They say Ammon Most died young. so obviously he's not Moses, because Moses didn't die young. But in reality, there is no record of Amin Moses' death. Like, we have a record of Wajmos, his brother, his little brother's death. We know that Wajmos died young. We have a record of Pahiri. In Pahiri's tomb of, sorry, Pahiri is Wajmos and Amman Moses's tutor.

Pahiri is the tutor of the sons of Pharaoh at the time. And he has Wajmos sitting on his lap, like the favorite son. And Amin Moses is not pictured. He's mentioned, but not pictured, as if, like, yes, I also tutored Amman Mos, but we don't like Ammon Moes. We like Wajmos. He's that which we did not mention or talk about. Yeah.

So like Wajmos is like sitting on his left in a place of honor. Pahiri, by the way, grandson of Amos son of Ibana, who was the admiral who received the slaves as gold of valor. So like the man who tutored Aminmos, who I believe is Moses, was the grandson of the guy who orchestrated the fall, the overthrow of the Hixos, in the enslavement of the people. So would have been the dynasty of Joseph. Right. Overthrow of the Hixos, the Hebrews in Goshen, that grandson is the tutor of Moses.

I mean, I couldn't write it. I couldn't come up with it better if I thought it up. But the main thing is they would point to is Ammon Moes died, but there is no record of his death. We have a record of Wajmos's death. We have a funerary cold. We have his tomb, all the kind of stuff. Ammon Moes doesn't die. He disappears.

Now, Egyptologists would say, oh, obviously he died. I mean, yeah, he died at some point. But, like, in the record, we have no record. of his death, we just have no more stories. Well, we do in Jude when Satan and Michael argue over his bones. If it's true, yeah, so I'm and Moses' bones are being fought over by Michael, yeah. That's incredible.

I guess the last thing I have is like, so if this is true, then what do we do with that as believers? This is something that should strengthen our faith. I think Nate brought up Jeremiah Johnson before, and I love these kind of conversations, Scott, because again, we don't have to, operate slowly on just faith, like, oh, we believe this because the Bible says it, which we should, right?

Sure. But when we find evidence that exists out there. Yeah. What does that? Yeah. What should that demand of us as believers or as people taking in the information about the veracity and the validity of a story like the Exodus? Yeah.

I mean, there are generations and generations of Christians who have believed without seeing anything. 100%. So, like, faith without seeing is commended in scripture even. Yeah. But that doesn't mean that we should kind of close our eyes and just say, I believe, and I'm not going to pay attention to the veracity of Scripture, the historical reliability of the story. Right. So for me, for a lot of believers, a lot of people who have read the book or commented on my videos on this topic and stuff like that, they say, man, this has been a great bolster to my faith. It doesn't mean my faith needed it, but man, it gives my faith some like, umph.

It just makes me feel a greater confidence that the things that I believe by faith have a ground. in reality, have a ground in actual history that took place that can be pointed to as, can be pointed to in the face of, or maybe even held on to, when people say, when the world says, man, that whole thing's mythology. None of it's true. None of it actually happened. There's no record of the Exodus. Abraham is a myth. Moses never existed. Noah is really just, is really just a, atrohasist guy, forget his name. Noah is just a Hebrew version of the Epic of Gilgamesh. Adam in the story of the, or the story of the watchers is really just the Ananaki. It's like, it's just all derivatives. This is a lot of the argument. Like, oh, these guys just borrowed

the other stories. Right. The older stories and they just repackaged them. And that's really hard to do if you can start pointing to find an evidence and start pointing to things like, well, no, actually no. This isn't a borrowed story. Yeah. Well, I think, yeah, I think you have, the Bible's a unique book. You know, throughout your story, I'm thinking, like, it's, it's kind of a lot of things. It's like, it's a historical book. It's a historical record, but it's prophecy and it's teaching and it's storytelling and it's also poetry yeah yeah like it's all these things in one and so it's really hard for like if whatever hat you want to put on and make it say what you want you're just like and i think christians have a hard time reading all of those all of that

at the same time when they're reading the book like it could be any of these things happening right now and we we kind of go moral and we're like and i like the bible just drops the hammer on you all the time And then this, this queen tried to seduce this guy. You know what I mean? It's like, we can't talk about that on Sunday school. Don't read Song of Solomon until you're 12. Yeah, yeah. That's a little bit spicy.

But then you uncover it and you're like, you say you're not a future guy, but even the old prophecies are coming true throughout time and you're seeing them like stories within stories. And it's got to confirm your faith to go, man, this is incredible. Like Moses is a Christ figure, and we can see that, you know, once Jesus shows up on the scene. And same with Joseph, you know, and I think that's cool, but it's a deeper truth. You know what I mean? Shadows and echoes.

Well, there's, it feels like lately, it may just be my algorithm, I don't know, but it feels like lately there's more and more and more pseudo-history trying to work against the biblical history. 100%. Yeah. Ancient aliens. Ancient alien, exactly. Like the, like, Alex, Cichidon, or whatever his name is. Sitchin. Sitchin.

Like, kind of beginning sort of with him, I'm sure it kind of came about before him in sci-fi and that kind of stuff. But, like, there's, it seems lately in the last several years that there's more and more stories, like Yahweh was just a storm god and he was stolen from. And he's, Yahweh is not really real. And he was a storm god. And this, it's called a Kenite hypothesis that he was adopted or co-opted. Just like they would say that all the other stories of the scripture are.

Never do they entertain the idea that maybe there is a, maybe of all of these stories, there is a cultural history, a memory, I should say, that's carried forward in all of these different cultures, and that's why we have flood narratives and multiple cultures. That's why we have different, very similar kind of, uh, uh, well subversion. We did a whole episode on. Yeah, subversion stuff. Yeah. Yeah, we did a whole episode on that. Like, it was a war of stories sometimes, you know, so who tells the better story, right? So they equate like the Old Testament stories, especially the old stuff, like before the Kings. Because once you get to the Kings, it's like, there's a lot of history for Kings. Like, there's a lot of history for Kings. Like, there's a lot of

history for like the monarchy and Israel in the highlands, right? But like you get further back than that and they say, oh, that's just the same type of history, mytho history as the Mesopotamian history and as the Greek lore history. And it's just borrowed. They're all borrowing or stealing from one another. And so when you can actually say, oh, no, no, look, look, this is like in the dirt. Like this guy is here painted on a wall. This history book that's written as history, not mytho history, it's actual history, Kingslist. We have him, we have, we know his name. Like when we see that there's a guy with the same name, if you drop the name of the God Amen, you have the name Moses. I'm in Moses. The Hebrew Moses is actually Moshe, right? There's no S on the end. That's the,

that's the Hellenized version. So like, Moes and Mosha is the same name. And it has very similar, like meaning even, across the, across the language. And it's fascinating too that you just drop the God. And you go, I've got a new, I have my God now. He goes to Midian. He discovers, you know, like Yahweh is my God. And in an act of faith, he says, I'm not Amen. I'm not born of Amen. I am just I'm just Moes. Just call me Moes. Born of I am. Yeah, exactly.

So you, so my, my, my, my, go ahead. No, I was going to say, you locate these guys, all this, this actual history in the dirt. And for believers who have a really difficult time with the seemingly credible historians saying Yahweh was co-opted from a storm god, the bail storm god, and the story of Abraham was a myth and all of these things were borrowed. It's very difficult if you're not learned. If you haven't been reading a bunch about it, you haven't seen this stuff. it's very difficult to not feel like your faith is built on something that has a kind of a shifting sand kind of a foundation. And when you find the people in the dirt, you find some stones to stand on, right? You find something firm that you can say, okay, hold on.

All of these other stories, these are just kind of faithless people grasping at straws. We have a history to this. We need to bring you back on and do like a deep dive into some of these specific topics and maybe talk about ancient aliens and things because we run into that every day. Yeah. And you'll have to, you have, my last question is you have, what would Luke be called an ancient Egypt so I can call him that on the show? Like, I need a, I need a good nickname for Luke here. It's just, yeah, I don't know. I don't know. Like, you're pretty tall, I guess. And they would probably name you after what you looked like, I guess, or maybe like who your parents were. Yeah, yeah. It all goes full circle because we started with Bigfoot and the names and

Luke would be something like, well, let me tell you about this. This is a fun sort of end on. So when I, When I was doing my master's in San Diego, I worked at an Italian restaurant. I attended bar there. And the entire kitchen there, which is amazing. This is a great Italian restaurant in North County, San Diego. The head chef was Filipino, which is kind of funny in Italian restaurant. And the entire staff in the kitchen, they were all Hispanic. And so I had phone with these guys, and they had a nickname for me.

And I was in Spanish, I never knew what it was. And then when I finally figured out what it was, it meant broom closet. And it's because I was tall. They were like, oh, you're like tall like the broom closet. And I was like, see this what you can call me broom closet the whole time? But I know it's going to go somewhere fantastic because of the show. But Scott, this has been really fun, man. We would love to do this again with you.

But for our listeners here, Black Sheep Bible Talk, tell them where they could find that. You have a substack. Of course, the book. Tell everybody where they can find what you're working on, find your videos, find your book. Yeah. And give our listeners a grid to where they can interact what you're doing. Okay. So on YouTube, it's Black Sheet Bible Talk.

It's just the channel. You can just, I guess, YouTube search it. I'll call it Googling, I guess. On Substack, it's Black Sheep Bible Notes. Okay. On YouTube, I do one video a week every Friday, and it's always 20 to 30 minutes long. It's that kind of like storytelling history for the most part. See, this is my thing.

I love history, bro. I like pictures, and so there's lots of pictures. My face is on there for a few seconds here and there, but it's really just pictures of old stuff, showing you what I'm actually talking about. And then there's also a substack. I write every week, sometimes twice a week, sometimes once a week. and usually I write a little bit more biblical theology there. And so my channel is a little bit more biblical history, biblical mystery.

History's mysteries. And then my substack is biblical theology and connecting the things. So that's where I write about like the name of God, pronouncing the name of God. What's the history of the pronunciation of the name of God? What was Abraham's faith like before he got to Canaan? So if we know he came from Er, we know those people's faith. So we can dig out of the dirt what his environment would have looked at.

like and connecting that to Mukisadek and Jethro and Job. So I do a little bit more biblical theology in Substack because I don't have to, it doesn't, it's not stories. We do the same. We do the same. We have to get a stranger. We'll have to, uh, I've subscribed. We'll have to talk about a collab, actually with the, let's go.

We'll get on this after the, after the end here. But maybe coming soon on Stranger Theology, of course, is our project with Dr. Joel and Molly. We'll have Scott and Black Sheepas. Yeah, thank you so much, Scott. But thanks so much for coming. Thanks for coming up to the studio. And, um, this was so good.

I mean, this is funny. Just personally, this always, this scratches an itch for me because I'm such a history guy. I love to walk through all of the history that confirms and undergirds, what the things that we believe. And I just, I think it's so important for us. And this is, again, to some previous episodes we talked about to not just believe, but also know why we believe. And then we can also, as you, I like your analogy. We can find stones in the dirt to stand on that and say, here's my, here's another analogy. flag in the ground here to say, these things happen.

Yeah. And here's what we can look at. Yeah. And just the, and to go back to what you were saying a minute ago, like, there's so many bad theories that just grow legs and runs for miles. And they just don't understand some of the, you know, sort of the other stories within story and the war and they kind of take one. It's just like Satan to me where he takes a little bit of truth, sprinkles in some, some other elements. And then next thing you know, you've got a whole bad theory, but it feels good. Yeah. Right. Yeah. It feels. right and I just appreciate you being also just to say on the side note for letting me my

kids got an opportunity to go to camp last minute and doing this remote so thanks for putting up this wasn't the plan but I appreciate you you know being flexible with me being gone so man camp at the gates of hell bro I mean that's incredible that's hardcore the mount of defilement Santa Cruz is a different type of gates of hell because there's a lot of weird stuff here in the mountains, but, you know, we're pushing back to darkness here in Santa Cruz. No throne of Satan. No throne of Satan at that Mount Herman, hopefully. We're going to that one, and there is some tickets available. Actually, shout out promo to our trip to Israel. There's like a couple tickets left. You can go to our Lourkew's.com, click the banner.

Come with us, Israel. Go to the real Sessori of Philippi. That's awesome. That sounds killer. And Scott, maybe we'll drag you out there one day. And the non-frisby golf Mount Mount Hermon. We're going to go there. Yes. Not playing Frisbee golf or having family. camp, but we will be, I don't think this, I don't think, I don't think this Mount Herman knows the weird history. Are you guys gonna, you guys have access to the, like, the gated section at the top? Uh, you were gonna go up top. I think that's the plan. Can you get into the military compound at the top of Mount Hermann? I don't know about that. We talked to Josh and Tommy about that, but I'm not sure. Well, let's, we need a gate. Yeah, we'll talk about this offline. Maybe you

guys can send a text message in our house. Yeah, we're just like all the kids are storming Scientology churches right now. We'll just run as fast as we can, as far as we can. here into the the apex of Mount Hermann. Scott, appreciate it, man. Next for bringing the highbrow view of this. We didn't make any Ramses jokes from Nachraliabre, but we wanted to. I was kept waiting for you, bro. I just kept waiting for you to do it.

I was like, I can't do it every. Luke's going to castrate me if I do that. Thank you, guys. I appreciate the opportunity to talk to you about it and kind of share this story with you. Awesome.