Blurry Creatures - EP: 61 Monsters with Tim Alberino

Episode Date: October 5, 2021

Tim Alberino returns for Part Two of our Genesis 6 discussion and gives a final picture of what he believes the world looked like before and after the Noahic Flood. We get fully immersed in the otherworldly happenings during this time in history and look at the monsters and beasts that might have been roaming the earth in the golden age. Were their centaurs and other mythological creatures like we find in the tales of Narnia? Tune in now to take another fascinating peek into the mind of one of the foremost experts on the Genesis 6 conspiracy.  Guest: timothyalberino.com contact: [e-mail] blurrycreatures.com Socials instagram.com/blurrycreatures facebook.com/blurrycreatures twitter.com/blurrycreatures Music Kyle Monroe: tinytaperoom.com Aaron Green: https://www.instagram.com/aaronkgreen/ Mastering: ironwingstudios.com Outro Song: TimeCop1983: timecop1983.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Luke so often, people email us and they have this story. They're out in their woods and they're looking in the bushes and they got, what's that? And when you are pouring your dog food and your dog's bowl, that's the last thing you want to say. What is that? What is the stuff coming out of this bag? You know, I don't think a lot of us think about maybe what we feed our dogs. And that's why we partner with rough greens. Most of us would love to have our dogs, you know, live as long as possible. I mean, I just lost my dog in December. And I would have just, I would have loved more time with Carl. And one of the things you can do to get more time with your dog is to feed them better. Dog owners don't usually realize that live nutrients, that their dog needs to thrive or missing from the food you just talked about. What is that, right? That's where Rough Green comes in. It's America's number one dog supplement that you sprinkle on top of their food. It's packed with prebiotics, enzymes, omega oils, and 20 live vitamins and mineral support digestion, energy and overall health from the inside out. It's all natural made in the USA and thousands of dogs are feeling younger, more energetic and healthier than they have in years. That's why we love it.

I'm giving it to our two dogs. You know, I've got older dogs, Nate, as I said. And so since they've been getting rough greens with their food, I've noticed they have more energy. their joints hurt less, they're older. I mean, they were talking 12 and 13 years old. And Rough Green's really made a difference in their energy levels and the pep in their step. So if you want to do what we did, you can get a free jumpstart trial bag for your dog today. Just cover the shipping. Go to Rough Greens.com and use discount code blurry.

That's RUFF Greens.com discount code blurry. Rough Greens makes any dog food better. Again, I say sentient because if you read through the book of giants, you have instances in which the giants are talking to the monsters. They're conferring with the monsters. So these are sentient monsters. So were these monsters like the centaurs and the minotors and that sort of thing? That's possible that they were, or maybe they weren't.

Maybe there was something else. And that we have this idea of these chimeras that we've created in more modern times, but that are derived from the essential idea of these sentient monsters roaming the earth. roaming Europe. Look at that. Dude, it's looking good. Got some great lettuce. Some solid lettuce.

I wish I got some lettuce in the back, dude. We'd be full on right now. The kids are wearing mullets. Kids are wearing mullets. I'm learning Luke's lingo. Dude, you are. I'm proud of you.

You see that literation there? It's really good, Nate. It's like you wrote lyrics and you were a poet or something. Welcome back to blurry creatures. So we got Tim Mabarino back on the show today, Luke. We're going to dive into the second part of Genesis 6. Thank you guys for dealing with like our,

wild marathons with Tim like champs right we got to cap them out tonight yeah we gotta give we gotta give Tim a little bit of some fences to or he'll roam the plains yeah we gotta build the sandbox there is those sandbox for Tim Alberino every the world this is Ister oyster oyster is that you just are you Scottish I can't hear myself very well get your in-air monitor going do no I'm not a worship leader at a mega church I don't have those you also don't have a goatee, so you're doubly not qualified. Well, welcome back to the Blurry Creatures, Luke. We're doing it again. There we are. And here we go. Can't stop, won't stop, Nathan. Our honorary third member of the show, Tim Albarino. Tim Albarino. Hey, welcome to Blurry Creatures real quick before we get started with the Tim

Alborino episode. I just had something to throw out there really fast. We have a private RSS feed now for members. So you listen to this on Apple Podcasts or whatever podcast player you have. You're used to the episodes coming right to your phone. Well, now if you're a member, you will get the episodes right to your phone as well. You get an email from us that gives you a private RSS feed. You just press the button, whatever app you use, or you can plug it into whatever app you use, and it will come right to your phone. So no more listening to Blurry Creatures podcast on the back end, if you remember. So here's the great thing. You're going to get episodes early. I'm going to finish up Doug Riggs episode today. That'll come on the RSS feed. And then you will get exclusive.

episodes to your feed as well. And you will get the long episodes to your feed. So all these things will happen right on your phone. Everything's straight to you. So if you want to become a member and support the show, this is a cool feature we just launched to try to get some of you guys out there who are waiting for an easy way to get the bonus content. And now we can actually just plug it right in and it comes straight to you. We keep the show ad free. And our whole mission here is just to have enough fans who love what we do and want to support what we do, we can just just continue to provide blurry creatures. Just a great listening experience.

Start to finish. No fluff. Even though this is kind of fluff. If you want to support the show, blurry creatures.com slash members, become a member. And we'll send you a link to that RSS feed right to your phone.

Literally, everyone jumping on board helps us a ton, helps us keep going. It's a ton of work. And the more people pile on, the more we can do. So appreciate you guys listening. And on to Tim Albarino. I just picture Tim with like a buck-knife.

on his back porch, whittling, cracking a couple of coconuts and... Just drinking an igloo full of black coffee. These knuckleheads emailed me again. All right. I'll talk to him. Hey, Luke, speaking of 80s, you remember those disc guns? They were called, like, disc tracers. Dude, I had one.

That was, like, my favorite 80s childhood. This thing's broke real easy, though. I remember just, like, sitting across the room, though, and shooting my sister and just, like, ding, ding, bounce it off her head. Nate, stop. I think we were, like, just... just a tad too old for like the Nerf Gun Revolution like they remember what super super suckers came out well yeah I mean the green bottle one was the best I had the green bottle one I want to always wanted the backpack one but we were that one was just ridiculous by that time

the water fight was over yeah it had to be odd numbers like three on one or four and one just to make it just to make it work but the water balloon launcher was in our that was our generation dude we had in college I almost got arrested like three or four times I'm not kidding same Yeah. I bet. That was like our college thing. I remember like getting the Chica police stopping this a few times and then being like, you guys doing what?

You can't do that. You can't do that. I was like, but he's like, are you kids drinking? We're like, no. It's like,

well, just kind of, good for you. Just kind of move on. We're like, yes. We used to water blue in the fraternity parties at Chico State as they were going, as they were going on.

And it was, man, what a pastime that was. I had this gorilla suit in college. And we would, I would, hide in the ivy outside the sorority houses and jump out at like two in the morning and just scare the crap out of the girls we should got the college together this would have been really good

we used to do a lot of that same kind of stuff like those are the day we used to play this dude we used to play this game we called the heater game we'd like get ourselves into fraternity parties you know we weren't we were locals we never one guy would go close all the windows and the other guy would go and find the thermostat and turn it all the way up it's be like in like in a summer party and we just see how long it took from to be like man Bro, it's hot in here, man. It's like real hot. Like, you know, I don't know.

At the time when you're 21, and you think that's pretty freaking awesome. And while we were doing all that, Luke, Tim was fighting off yellow fever in the jungle. Yeah, Tim was, Tim was out swapping out idols with bags of sand in the temple. A bunch different life.

Welcome back to the show, Tim. Thanks for having me again, guys. But last time we talked, you said you would continue the Genesis 6 to the end of the age and talk about the Refayem. I was trying to remember what it was at uh monsters and creatures yes nade i took notes since i just remember where we're at

talk about some monsters and creatures hybrid son of satan that's right okay and then man loses dominion before christ returns well i think we've covered those last two ones have we haven't we haven't really covered i would say when we really went dove into your book we did some of the last two but people can't get enough tim they just can't get enough uh people like in the these episodes Yeah. Yeah. And they're telling, people are talking on our,

in our members page about going on the tour. Oh, yeah? Oh, yeah. They want to do a crowd fund to get us on the boat. I'm just trying to orient myself here, to kind of remind myself of where we left off last time.

I knew we got to Mount Herman. We got to the transaction between the watchers and the sons of God. And I believe we're getting into the idea of heaven's physical place, the UFOs, potentially these craft brought and we're talking about the craft bringing the angels the watchers to that's right yeah yeah

Herman okay I remember I don't know how much more I don't know how much farther we got down that road to him to be honest well we were talking about I think we were talking about the end like how did they come back what's your thoughts on how they returned okay yeah and I remember I wanted to make a point about

the RIFIM and then get chimeras yeah and also the the question and I don't know if we answered this question before but the question of what technology they might have brought with them. I think we were talking about that. We'll start that. Or we were going to talk about that.

Or did we talk about that? We didn't, I don't think. We talked about what they arrived in. And that was about the end. We got to the precipice, Tim. And then we were like, I think we are at three hour mark. We'll have to. All right.

Well, hey, you know, it's, I mean, obviously the story, I would say most of our podcast episodes, Tim, have kind of lived pre-flood, right, Luke? Like the golden age and post-flood, we had a few people talk about it. But that seems to be the mystery. How do things survive? What are they? And, you know, even guys like Skeba have come on and their theories are the biggest problem post-flood was the chimerical creatures. not as much the giants.

So I don't know. There's a lot of mystery. Explain that. So there's people who believe that there were not, that there were more chimeras roaming around in a post-flod context than giants. Isn't that kind of what Skiba said, Luke? It was like he felt like that was the main problem post-flood, that most of the other things were destroyed in the flood.

The chimera survived. I thought it was more like the chimera was, one of the, also like the compounding problem pre-flood where he made it sound like the mixing of species was the majority of the problem after the flood. I mean that that people just drop those bombs and then there's not a lot of discussion that happened because we kind of kept going. We'll get our fact check. We'll get our fact checkers on that. They'll check your memes, Nate. It's hard to remember all these episodes now. Yeah. Yeah. They're all becoming just a blur. Yeah. Hey. Hey. Whoa. There he is.

Well, you know, one of the things that I want people to think about when we talk about the flood of Noah is what caused the flood. I think that's an interesting topic that we sort of take for granted. We have, I think, a very Sunday schoolish perception of what caused the flood in that it was just rain coming from above and then the waters of the deep breaking through the surface of the earth. so forth. And that was certainly an element, but there was a larger dynamic happening in the earth that we can actually, we see a lot of evidence for, and that is the precipitous end of the last ice age. And so we know now that at the end of the last ice age, that the last ice age ended in what appears to be a cataclysmic event. It certainly ended abruptly. And that was sometimes it's referred to as the younger dryest period, which was between about 12,900, 11,000, 600 years ago.

That date may seem too long to a lot of people who are most familiar with the masoretic text of the Bible, but in fact, I think that it is the accurate date of the flood was about 12,000 years ago, as opposed to just a few thousand years ago, which a lot of the young Earth creation And I would say most Christians probably think that the flood occurred not a few thousand years ago, but certainly like maybe 4,000, 5,000 years ago because they believe that creation started, that creation was initiated 6,000 years ago. In other words, that mankind was created some 6,000 years ago. A proposition which I actually find to be absurd. Now, I understand why people derive that date from, the scriptures, but I don't think that you can make a good case that the earth is only 6,000 years old, or for that matter, that mankind is only 6,000 years old. I'm not a proponent of evolution, but I do believe that mankind is much older than we think. And I say we, by we, I mean, the Christian community, because most of us have been, most of us have been influenced by a young Earth

creationist perspective. And I'm not saying that the Young Earth creationist perspective is a bad perspective. I just think it's an actual lot more going on for a lot longer. Yeah, for sure. Sometimes it feels like when you get that phone bill, it's like the crash site document. You can't read it. There's a bunch of numbers, random fees, vague language, stuff's blacked out. You're like, what am I actually paying for? I don't know about you, but I like keeping my money where I can see it. I like to be simple. I like to be easy. I'm going to be throwing away money on big wireless carriers. You too can say goodbye to overpaying for wireless, get a simple bill, and that's where MintMobil comes in.

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New customer offer for first three months only, then full-price plan options available, taxes and fees extra. See MintMobile for details. I mean, even just if you think about just what we do know, where God says, I'm going to flood the world and then 120 years goes by, God has a lot of patience. If we look at these little micro stories of like, that took a long time. Just that one event, just that warning took 120 years. You could think you can kind of deduce. Tim, Tim, I think what I also see, we've talked about in the show is dating like things like the Sphinx, right, where they are talking about there being rain erosion on the body of the sphinx.

Yeah. And so that would put that at like, you know, at 10,000 BC. Yeah, 10,000 BC, exactly. Right at the end of the younger dry-ass period. So you're looking at about roughly 12,000 years ago. That's right in line, right? Because it didn't rain, didn't rain before the flood. So this seems to line up with what you're saying here.

Humans around 25,000 years, 30,000 years? No, I don't, I don't know, actually. I don't, certainly, I would say we are 15, maybe 1520. I don't know exactly because we make an assumption that the list of the patriarchs in Genesis from Adam to Noah and beyond, actually, are, is a comprehensive list from father to firstborn son. But that's not necessarily true. And there's reasons for that. We won't, we don't have to get into the granularity on that. There's a lot of studies out there, scholarly, studies and analysis on the on the on the on the patriarchs the list of patriarchs in

genesis that suggests that that list is not in fact a linear progression from father to first born son and again people can go and do a study on that and you'll see what i mean there's there's differing viewpoints of course there is the viewpoint again referencing young earth creation is that it is in fact a list from father to firstborn son and so they reckon that timeframe based on the lifespans of the patriarchs. That's how they get the time frame of the pre-flood world from Adam to Noah. But there's a fundamental flaw in that kind of linear thinking in regard to those patriarchs. First of all, they base their conclusions off of the masoretic text of the Bible.

But the masoretic text is not the only text available. and it certainly wasn't the text that the early church was using, that would be the Septuagint, the Greek version of the Old Testament. And according to the Septuagint adds a hundred years onto the lifespans of the patriarch. So according to the Septuagint, the Septuagint roughly adds like a thousand years to that timeline. And again, that's assuming that that timeline is an unbroken line, a procession from father to firstborn son, I don't believe it is.

So we are not, we're not told exactly how many years there were from Adam to the flood. Again, we can extrapolate based on those, the timeline of the patriarchs. And even if we do that, according to the Septuagint, we would get 2000, I forget what the exact numbers, over 2,000 years, according to the Septuagint, much less according to the Maseretic text, which is what most of us have, is we're, reading a masoretic version of the Old Testament. Well, I was going to say, did you say in the beginning of this episode that people don't know why God flooded the earth or they don't know?

No, I wanted to say that what I want to do is I want to paint a picture that most people are probably unaware of. And it is this idea that the earth was locked into an ice age previous to the flood. And that would have drastically changed the environment on earth. the habitable zones would have been different than what they are today because you have the northern and southern hemispheres of the earth were completely covered by ice sheets, very thick ice sheets, in some cases a mile deep. So lots and lots and lots of frozen water. So I'm sitting in Montana right now. I would be sitting in the midst of it. I'd be sitting

on top of an ice sheet right now if it were 12,000 years ago. So we have to understand. And this is really indisputable. The fact that the ice age ended at that time and the very fact of the ice age itself is indisputable. There was an ice age. And it was during the ice age that this diverse penelope of what's called megafauna existed in the earth. We're all familiar with the megafauna. Yeah. The mastodons and the woolly mammoths and the giant sloths and the short and the short-faced bear, which was just a monstrous creature, the saber-toothed tiger, all of these massive creatures

that died off, that went extinct, right at the end of the ice age. They love to send us all kinds of photos of that stuff, like giant mushrooms, like they're like petrified, all kinds of wild stuff. The environment on Earth was different.

Yeah. Even if we were to just think about the Ice Age, discounting the notions that the gravity was, different or the oxygen levels were different. Just the fact that there was an ice age and that a very large portion of the earth, the poles were covered by very thick ice in those habitable zones between the ice were very different than what they look like today. The environments were very different. For example, you know, even though during the ice age, Montana was under

under ice, there's evidence of tropical plants here in Montana and in the Pacific Northwest. So at some point in time, it was tropical up here. So that must have been way before the Ice Age. So that in and of itself testifies to a very old earth, an earth that has gone through cycles and climate changes, natural climate changes, and catastrophic events. cataclysms that have changed the geology and the climate of the planet. In the last Ice Age, the younger Dryas was such an event. So you have the Ice Age abruptly ending, abruptly ending,

and there's a lot of speculation as to why it abruptly ended. And one of the theories, I believe this is Graham Hancock's, one of Graham Hancock's theories as well, is that the among other scientists, among a group of scientists who are studying this, that there was a comet impact that occurred probably somewhere in North America that hit the ice sheets, one of the ice sheets in North America, and caused a rapid heating of the atmosphere. And that melted all the ice.

And the melting of the ice. And we're talking, unfortunately, fathomable volumes of ice that were locked in the northern and southern hemisphere. And that all of that ice suddenly melting would have caused, obviously would have caused a flood. All of that ice melting at the same time would have been absolutely devastating. You would have had tidal waves washing over land masses. I thought about you, Tim, on somewhere. sent us a link to a guy that digs in Alaska and he was posting photos and someone someone was saying

that there's this layer deep down in the ground where it looks like scorched earth all the way across and he was kind of several posts on his Instagram about how do we where what is this layer of scorched earth in the ground and it seems like he was suggesting what you're saying is there's like a massive cataclysm of fire and comets and who knows what came down. Well, if you assume that the Earth has undergone various cataclysms over the millennia, and I'm not talking about going back just to Adam because we definitely suffered one global cataclysm, which is what we're talking about right now. But if you go beyond that, beyond the creation of Adam and you go back into the deep past,

who knows how many cataclysms have occurred on Earth? There's just no way to know. but I think we can be pretty certain that cataclysms have occurred, pre-ademic cataclysms. When we think about the last cataclysm, again, we're talking about it, the Ice Age. This is the context of the biblical flood narrative. It's the Ice Age. These ice caps are melting, but that's not all that's happening. Remember, the ice caps are melting because a comet struck.

Most likely it was a comet impact. And that comet impact would have been just absolutely devastating, not only to the North American content, just in the continent, just in terms of the mass, the explosion and the earthquakes and volcanic eruptions and whatever else would accompany the impact of the comet, but also the superheating of the atmosphere, which would likely have ensued as well. And you would have wildfires breaking out everywhere. And you would have a particular kind of rain because you would get all this soot thrown up into the atmosphere and the exploding volcanoes and just the soot from the impact itself, and you would get black rain because it would just the atmosphere would get

laden with soot, and then when it rained, it would come down in the form of precipitation. And it was a very dark, bleak, cataclysmic time. And so you have rain, you have the melting of the ice caps, you have rain, you have earthquakes, you have volcanic explosions, eruptions, you have wildfires breaking out in the forests. It's not just a, flood. The flood is the result of these, of the impact of the of the, of the, of the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, which was, which was the, the, the, the comet impact. And so, to what to what degree, there's a lot of, of, of, of that impact during the ice age would have been a sudden and global flooding. Now, to what degree there's a lot of speculation. Certainly, much of the earth was flooded, certainly. Was the entire Earth flooded every single corner of the planet?

There's a debate to be had about that. There's a scholarly debate to be had about that based on the text of the scripture. So there's several scholars out there who have talked about this, that there's inconsistencies in the flood narrative regarding whether or not the whole world was covered by water. The whole earth was covered in water. So this might be a dumb question, but why does it matter, really? It doesn't. Okay. It doesn't matter. In my opinion, it doesn't matter. The fact is that there was an earth-shattering cataclysm that occurred. Do you think anything survived this? Well, this is what I was going to say.

So there's an earth-shattering cataclysm that occurred, 11,600 to 12,900. years ago during the Younger Dryas period. And that is the cataclysm of the Noahic narrative. Now, was the entire earth covered with water? The entire earth was affected. That's for sure. The entire earth would have been affected. Was the entire earth covered with water? I don't know. And people are going to want to take umbrage with that immediately and say, well, the Bible says that, you know, every mountain or whatever was covered in that, that everything died that had breath. Well, as I said, there are some, there's a problem with that wooden literal interpretation, that that is exactly precisely the way it was. And I'm not a, I'm not a biblical scholar.

And people can go and do research on that. And you will find, you'll find, for example, I know that Michael Heiser talks about this and others, that there are just some discrepancies in the description of the earth being covered with water and some inconsistencies there that need to be taken into account. And so we might be dealing with just a figure of speech that the whole earth was covered in water and the highest peaks of the mountains. The only reason why that might matter, because to me, ultimately, in terms of the biblical narrative, it doesn't. It's still true. The Noahic narrative is still a true account. But the reason why the detail might matter a little bit, at least in some regard is because that if the entire earth was not covered by water,

the entire planet was not underwater, then that might leave some room for people groups to find refuge. Now, that to me is doubtful, even if the whole earth wasn't covered in water, because the cataclysm was so intense. The climate change to such an extent, the mass die-off of fauna around the earth, People would have starved to death.

They would have starved to death. The sun would have been, you know, the, and it wasn't just a one singular event, by the way. Yeah. It was a cataclysm that persisted for a while. So you might have had areas that were, that recovered quicker, but other areas were still reeling in the aftermath of the common impact for years and years and years, depending on the geographic location. And so it's not a straightforward thing. It's not like, oh, there was a flood from this period to this period. And it's just because it rained a lot.

And then everything was great. Everything was great on earth. And the animals came back. It wasn't that simple. It was much messier and frankly, much more terrifying than most of us think about. So things could have survived, basically, right? Things could have survived. Yes.

And, you know, it says everything that has breath died. Well, then we have to assume that whales died and that dolphins died. But there were no whales or dolphins on the ark. You see where I'm going with this? So there were no whales or dolphins on the ark. There were no seals. There was no tuna. Presumably.

There were no marine animals on the ark simply because a whale, even setting aside the fact that a whale simply wouldn't fit on the ark. There was no sea world on the ark. sea world on the ark. There's no, there's no, there's no, uh, free willy. There's nowhere to keep a whale dolphin, a sea lion. Did Bigfoot make it on the ark, Tim? That's what we want to know. Oh, he did not. No, I don't think he did. I think Bigfoot, you see, here's the other thing. You have also, there's also the possibility that, that there could have been refuge in the interior of the earth. That's my theory. That's what I've said earlier in our show that I think they went underground because all these

damn things go underground. Yeah. And everybody, and everybody, people have a knee-jerk reaction because they say, well, wait a minute. We know that the Bible says that everything that had breath on the earth die. But again, what about a whale? The whale die. The whale has breath. I mean, the whale, the whale breathes air. Okay, that's what you get in. So the point is that you can't take that literally, because if you take that literally, then you have to deal with the dolphins and you have to deal of the other animals, the other marine mammals that breathe air that showed up in the world after the flood. Obviously, they're here now.

And there's no reason to think that they haven't always been here and that they died during the flood, but were somehow receded after the flood. It's much more logical to presume that they survived during the flood, even though we have to take into account the fact that it would have been very difficult for animals, even marine life, there would have been a mass die-off in the ocean, too, because when you dump in that much fresh water into the salt water, that's going to change the chemistry of the water dynamically. And also, the sunlight is the sun's going to be blocked out for a period of time. And so there definitely was a mass die-off of animal life, marine and land animal life,

all over the earth. And that alone would have led to the near extinction of human species, if not the total extinction of the human species, save for those who were on the ark. So no matter how, no matter which way you cut it, you have a global cataclysm that is almost bringing to extinction every single species on earth, especially the land animals. So what we have on our show is everyone's like they were there before and after. Is there any extra biblical literature that gives you more details than they were here before and then after? Is there any? Not that I'm aware of. But there are, you know, there's a lot of inferences that one could draw from that.

Of course. So say, yeah. Go ahead. I was going to say, so say 95% of everything gets wiped out, all the abominations. Basically, some could survive in the earth and then come out. Is that kind of where we're going with this after the floodwaters received? Yeah, there's, I mean, there's different hypotheses, I know that Steve Quayle and L.A. Marsouli and some others subscribe to a second incursion hypothesis in which they envision another Genesis 6-like event taking place in a post-flood context. In other words, fallen angels came down after the flood and had intercourse with human women again and that's how we that's how we got the other the rafaheim right post-led giants exactly so that's one hypothesis another one is there there's a hypothesis this one's actually pretty old

that genetic markers of the nephaline were carried through the flood in the genomes of the wives of noah's sons yeah in other words they always talk about the wife of ham right the wife of ham the wife of ham's That seems harder to believe to me for some reason. I mean, it's one of the hypotheses that's out there. And then there's another one, which I think is the most salient. It's definitely the simplest hypothesis. And it is simply that somebody survived, either by going under the ground or, you know, I even have speculated in the past.

Maybe they went off planet. You know, that might seem a stretch, but whatever. Well, no, let's explore that. And we've talked extensively on your, on your interviews with, like, alien abductions and the breeding program and all this other stuff. So if they don't, you know, the first incursion happens directly on Earth. Is it possible that, like, a female could be taken up into the sky and it's not happening on Earth? So it's kind of like bending the rules the first time. You know, they were doing it on planet and then...

Well, that's happening today in the form of alien abductions. Sure, exactly. And that's what I'm saying. ...per se is... Or the abduction phenomenon, as we know today, is as an ancient phenomenon. I don't think it is. Why? I couldn't it be?

Because it's the gray aliens really were referring to when we talk about the abduction phenomenon. And I don't think they've been here for very long. I think they showed up in the late 19th century. However, the procedure of the abduction in which women have ova extracted and then have a zygote implanted, and then they carry it basically for a few months and it's extracted and so forth, you know, sort of the in vitro technology. I'm sure that that's existed for who knows how long. I mean, remember, we're talking about within the context of the biblical narrative, we're talking about, a civilization of entities who I call the elder race, ambiguously designated as angels in the narrative, that these beings are vastly superior to us

in terms of their technology, their knowledge. And so certainly they would have known about all of this before we were even created, before Adam took his first breath. They would have known about these things, I believe, based on the kind of technology that we see them, utilizing in the scripture. So the question is, would the dragon and his princes, the apostate sons of God, would they have been able to meddle with the reproductive faculties

of the human race? And the answer is probably so. I mean, why not? And so that's the differentiation I would draw there. I don't think we're talking about gray aliens in that context. We could be talking about the other sons of God. When we left off the last episode is they come down on Mount Herman flying this craft. They make a deal with the Sons of Cain for exchange. And then eventually that leads to a slew of problems, then the cataclysms, start over. It would make sense to me that they would just figure out a different way to do the same thing. Yes, but remember that it's not the same group of beings.

The watchers were a very specific group, according to the narrative, according to the narrative of the of the Book of Inak that they, they descended to the earth in the days of Jared. There were 200 in number, and they all received swift retribution for their, for their crimes. They were, they were bound, and they were bound, hand and foot and thrown into Tartarus. They're imprisoned, right? So, yeah. They're in prison. So, you know, one of them, as Azel was placed in the desert under the ground.

So how many do you think there are of the elder? race. Well, it's a third of heaven or the third of heaven, Nate rebels. So the assumption is that that 200 is not the third of heaven. But I mean, I guess it could be wrong. Yeah, I would say that that was a different event. That was a much earlier event. There are some people who speculate that that rebellion, that that was in fact that the dragon gathering a third of the stars and throwing them to the earth. That's where we get this notion that a third of the, third of the, the Angelica Coast, rebelled. There are some people who argue that that's not what that means and there's no reason to believe that a third of the heavenly host rebelled. I personally think that it's pretty difficult

to say that that's not what that means. It seems apparent to me that whatever happened in the pre-ademic past, it was so utterly catastrophic that it must have involved a very large faction of apostate sons of God who were fought. following this entity, he who shall not be named this Voldemort entity called the dragon in the Bible into rebellion. Here's a thought I just had. I don't want to get us on too wild of a tangent, but when thinking about this, it's easy to think about angels and events only happened back then.

And clearly on our episodes, we've been talking about how it happens now. There are UFO sightings to the stay, and things are still going on. Do you think the elder race defecting from God's kingdom to the dragon even today, getting seduced to the dark side, so to speak? Do you think that's happening still? I think it might be, but not to the degree that it did initially because when you see the punishment, when you see the condition of those apostate sons and the pronouncement of judgment that is on them in the scriptures, that's a deterrent. Sure. It just makes you wonder.

Also, in the book of Enoch, we read, and again, this, this, I believe this in the, I don't remember if this is part of the parables of Enoch or if this is part of the book of the watchers, but the angels, the loyal angelic hosts were able to see, we're able, had a view of the torment of the ones that were the, of the watchers. So that's a pretty good deterrent. I mean, if you can, if you are made aware of the public hanging of the, of the punishment of the torment. that the defectors are in, then that's a deterrent for you defecting yourself. So everything and anything is possible. There's no, there's no way that if we assume that these stories are true, which we do because we're Christians and we believe that we have a historical account of things that happened in the past in the Bible. So we take a lot of this as historical fact, then anything is possible. Anything is possible. And we certainly don't know everything. We know so very little about the history of mankind, the history of the planet itself, the history of the solar system and of the cosmos in general. And we're working with very little knowledge. We see in part. We see as through a glass dimly. Everything, not just anything is possible. Let's not be dogmatic. A lot of people, because these are quote unquote biblical

stories, people get very dogmatic about them because they treat them in the same way that they would treat a doctrine, you know, the doctrine of Christ, for example, or something like that, or the Trinity or something. And so they get very religiously dogmatic about their positions. Whereas in, if we weren't talking about a biblical narrative, if we were just talking about something else, people would be able to hold different points of view and be able to conceive a possibilities or many, many possibilities because they're not beholden to a dogmatic worldview. But in this case, because it has to do with the Bible, people get very hostile, they get very hostile and dogmatic and very close-minded.

We get that a lot. When after our episodes, we get a lot of emails from people who are like, who say very much that. They're like, I don't agree with your eschatology, but Tim's got some wild ideas and it's fascinating to listen to. but part of what I hear you're saying is, is that you can close your mind to a very specific way of reading it all, and then there's no room for all the other pieces of information that come out.

Because obviously, if you do any study in uifology, it doesn't make sense inside the biblical narrative, right? It can't, you can't just throw it all out. Well, the biblical narrative is not, is not, it doesn't encompass every facet of knowledge that there is. There was nothing in the biblical narrative that told us about the atomic or subatomic world, for example, or nuclear energy. There's nothing in the biblical narrative that foretold the rise of the internet or artificial

intelligence. There's nothing in the biblical narrative, aside from the aerospace vehicles that are hinted at in the vehicles that these angelic beings are driving around. There's nothing in the biblical narrative that told us that there were going to be airplanes or that the technology to traverse the heavens in the way that we do, even exist, it was even possible. So we make this assumption. And I remember I had a friend some years ago who's having a real hard time with certain issues that we would talk about, like the Genesis 6 type stuff. And especially, actually not the Genesis 6 content, the content

pertaining to aliens, UFOs and so forth. And his commentary was, well, it's not in the Bible. it's not in the Bible, therefore, and therefore what? I mean, my response would be, therefore what? It's not in the Bible, therefore what? It doesn't exist. It's out of bounds for us to contemplate because it's not explicitly written in the Hebrew scriptures. That's absurd.

Right. Tim, you're saying, and I think is a very valid point, is that you can hold two, things that seem to be competing, these two ideas, and they don't compete, they can coexist within within the biblical frame or biblical understanding of our existence. It doesn't, just because it's not explicitly, they didn't talk about the combustion engine in scripture, doesn't mean you can't hold these two things and not have them be at odds, right? They can actually coexist in, in the same space. Yeah, the Bible, it frames the house, but it doesn't give you the dry wall and the insulation and the electrical. Exactly. That's a good way to look at it. That's right. It gives us the general framework. And again, and I've said this on your show before, the primary purpose of the Hebrew scriptures and the New Testament is to convey the gospel of Christ to humanity. That is the primary purpose of the Hebrew scriptures. And the scriptures validate themselves through prophecy. So there's a stamp of, there's a

a validation that the scriptures are trustworthy, that the message that they are communicating is trustworthy because there's validation. There's also historical validation regarding the scriptures. But the primary thrust is the gospel of Christ. We know that that is invariably the case because when the Son of God himself, who mind you, was the very singularity of creation, everything was created by him and through him and for him, he comes to the earth. He's born on earth as a man and he begins to talk to mankind and what are the things that he tells us. He doesn't tell us about the germ theory of disease. He doesn't tell us that, you know, hey, a lot of you are dying for malaria. Let me show you the cure for malaria.

He doesn't show us the cure for leprosy. He doesn't tell us about the other planets. He doesn't tell us about the cosmos. He doesn't tell us about outer space. He doesn't tell us about the atomic and the subatomic and nuclear energy. And he doesn't tell us any of these things. It certainly doesn't tell us about Bigfoot. He doesn't tell us about, right, Luke? Bigfoot, he doesn't tell us about, hey, you guys are, you know, you're driving around

in these chariots, but. But he tells Enoch a lot of stuff. Yeah, that's, that's, that's, that's a whole different conversation. That's very esoteric stuff there. But my, but my point is this, to finish my point, my point is this, when the son of God came to earth, when he was, when he was born among men, when he, when he lived among men and spoke to us, he spoke to us like children. He told us parables. And all the parables he told us were meant to convey to us, A, the gospel of Christ, the gospel of God. and then B, to tell us about the kingdom of heaven. And the way that he told us about the kingdom of heaven was using the things that we were familiar with in the parables of everyday life at the time. And so that reinforces the notion that the message of God to mankind. What God is concerned with us knowing is the gospel of his son. because ultimately, as we know, being believers, that is ultimately the only thing that matters.

Everything else is going to be taken care of. Diseases are going to be wiped out. Even death for mankind will be taken care of eventually. But our problem right now, the human condition is one of divorce from the family of God. We've been separated from the father, from the father's house. We've been evicted, so to speak, from the father. house and mankind is at enmity with God. That's the problem. And the solutions to all these other things, you can't get to those solutions without fixing this problem first. Because this is,

this problem is the cause, this condition, the human condition, separation, divorce from the family of God is the cause of all these other ills. And so the gospel, and the message of Scripture to mankind is the gospel of Christ, because it is, is the rectification of our condition. And so this is the communication from God to man through the scriptures, first and foremost, the primary purpose of the Bible is to communicate the gospel of Christ to mankind. That is the primary purpose. All these other things that we talk about, the historical narratives, the Genesis 6th narrative,

the flood, all of these other things, many of which are historical, some of which are metaphorical. And there's a lot of, every kind of figure of speech is employed in the Bible, by the way. So all of these other topics, there's room for exploration. There's room for differing opinions. There's room for a lot of room for different hypotheses. It's kind of like if it's not in the Bible, people feel like they can't talk. That's exactly how people feel. So we don't have to get dogmatic about how the giants, and you guys aren't, and I'm saying that you are, you're not, but people, I'm referring to people in your audience that might be dogmatic about how the, how the giants appeared in the earth after the flood. The only thing that I'm

dogmatic about, the thing that, that, that I'm very careful about and, and in fact, it is the thing that, that, that I'm concerned with the most is getting the gospel right. Right. that the gospel of Christ is correctly preached and preserved through the ages. And that is the thing that is of most importance. And that's where I'm going to get dogmatic is when we start to talk about the gospel of Christ, what it means and who Christ was, according to the apostles and so forth. That's where I get dogmatic, because that's the only thing that really matters at the end of the day in terms of ultimate knowledge. Everything else, the flood, different elements of the historical parts of the narrative, all these other things are open to debate in terms of the

granularity of them, in terms of the details. It does not impeach the character of God if the flood was not, didn't cover every single mountain peak on earth. That does not impeach the character of God. People want to approach the scriptures in this very dogmatic way that if somebody suggests, which many scholars do, by the way, that the flood covered a certain region, or that was a regional flood, which I don't subscribe to that, but it's okay if people do that that position impeaches the character of God. It makes God. liar. But we need to do away with that kind of talk and that kind of an attitude because it's unhelpful. And it's, and it becomes very hostile. And that's, I guess that's my little

soapbox. I like it. Because a lot of people give us those messages. And I do feel like they feel trapped in these electrical fences. They can't get out of. And it's like, hey, we have all this modern day stuff going on. And you got to be able to explore it. Because I think one of the major deceptions that Christians will have is once they disclose UFOs, no pastors ever talked about these topics and people are going to fold really quickly because they have no, they have no framework. No one's even had a hypothetical this conversation with them. So back to the flood. Yeah, I was going to say to him, we're like, we're on the other side of the flood now. And I know we, no, I'm not saying we talked about, there's a lot of theories, right? And it's kind of, I think

what you were doing, you're putting contextualized it's saying, like, it doesn't tell us exactly, but it doesn't really matter. It doesn't tell us because the Bible's not an Encyclopedia, it's a message to humanity about God's love and redemption for humanity. That's exactly right. Is your theory then? So we know that there's a flood. It may have been localized. It may have been the known world.

Every people say that as well. Like, you know, at that time, there was not that many people, and they lived in a certain part of the world. And so maybe the known world gets flooded. It doesn't matter. But we get, there's giants after. There's tribes of giants. There's Canaanites and Amorites and Goliath and his brother.

and King Og, how do they return? What's your theory on this? Well, if I was a final comment on the flood itself, we know that the whole earth was affected by a cataclysmic event some 12,000 years ago. We know that that is the case. Evidence for that is everywhere. We know that that's when the Ice Age ended. And there's just so much evidence for it.

And so we should assume that that was the Noahic flood event. and assuming that, then we know that it was a global cataclysm. Regardless of whether or not every single mountain peak was under the water, it was a global cataclysm. By definition, the comet impact and everything that would have precipitated from that comet impact. So the regional flood theory, I think, is a little bit absurd. It's a little bit ridiculous because that will completely do. discounts the younger dry-ass event.

Completely discounted. And there's no reason to discount the younger dry-ass event, the great melt that happened. And the mass die-off of the megafauna. There's no reason to discount any way. So in terms of people surviving the flood, we know that only Noah and his family survived on the ark in terms of the human species.

And there's some people who want to argue that communities of human beings may have survived in other parts of the earth. But the problem that I have with that is that's very difficult to believe when you take into account how devastating this cataclysm was. Again, the fact that all this megafauna dies, there's this mass die off, the chances of humanity surviving that and not going extinct, if not for the divine intervention, if not for divine intervention, I think are just astronomically low or I should say it's it's astronomically high the chances that humanity would have gone completely extinct in such an event well no vegetarians no

vegetarians survive for sure right so it required well the plants would have died as well what's what I'm saying that if you were just eating plants you're not surviving at all well you're not surviving yeah plants or animals because the animals would become extremely scarce if you know I mean it was just a massive die-off we know that you know you have a lot of animals, for example, who died suddenly while they were eating. You have mammoths and our mastodons. I can't remember which one, which have been found in Siberia, with food in their mouths. In their bellies still.

That died instantly, instantly, and were frozen and preserved. Well, that makes a great argument. So say everything does die off and then we have everything slowly populating again over the next several hundred years, 300, 400, 500, 500 years. Everything's much smaller. And it wouldn't be easy for a giant to survive. There would have had to have been some preparation. There would have had to been foreknowledge that the flood was coming.

Now, this brings us to something that we were going to talk about last time, but we ran out of time. I mentioned that, according to the extra biblical accounts, there were giants, the offspring of the watchers and human women were giants. the progeny of the watchers. And they were humanoid. There's no reason to believe that they were anything other than humanoid. But there is another category of preacher which comes from another Dead Sea Scroll called the Book of Giants. And these creatures are referred to as monsters. And so the Book of Giants talks about giants and monsters. Book of Giants was found among the Dead Sea Scrolls and is a very ancient Hebrew account of the Genesis 6 narrative. So it's sort of a, it's another piece of the puzzle.

Now, whether it's a true account, I don't know. It seems to fit the narrative of the biblical narrative as well as the Enochian narrative. But according to that account, and it's highly fragmented. It's so fragmented that you can only get bits and pieces of what's going on. But according to the Book of Giants, the watchers were defiling, corrupting the other life, forms on earth. They were corrupting the other animals on earth. And we don't have enough of the fragments to tell us exactly how they were doing. We just know that they were corrupting the earth, which is obviously conforms to the Genesis narrative. For example, we have, from the fragmented

pieces, we have this section of the book of giants, which reads 200 donkeys, 200 asses, 200 Rams of the flock. And as I read this, understand that there's ellipses between these sentences. So there's fragments that are missing here between these sentences. 200 goats, 200 beasts of the field from every animal, from every bird were selected for miscegenation. The word miscegenation means the mixing of the species. The mixing of the species. The mixing of the species. The mixing of the species, the mixing of the species, the mixing of the species. Now it's interesting that it says miscegenation, because it doesn't say that they were selected for copulation, sexual intercourse or something like that. It says miscegenation. This word miscegenation, which of course is a different

word in the Greek or whatever this fragment came from or from the Aramaic. But the reason why the translators chose that word is because it fitted the original meaning most closely, which is that there was a mixing of the species. There's an interbreeding of the species going on. And it wasn't just breeding a donkey with a horse to get a mule. It was taking the genetic material from both and splicing it together to create something else. Why do you think they, why do you think they were doing that? Well, I'll read the rest of this. It's just one more sentence here. And again, remember, this is fragmented. They defiled. They begot giants and monsters. When it says they begot, it says they defiled, and then there's an ellipsis here, and then it says they begot. In other words, there's a,

there's missing, there's missing text here. And when it says they begot, we're talking about, again, this is very difficult to read this because it's so fragmented. So they defiled, we know that something begot, something, that's all we know, because it's fragmented. So I think we can assume that's talking about animals, the animals begot, other animals. animals, other monstrosities. And then also the watchers were beginning giants. The women of the females were having, we're giving birth to the giant offspring of the watchers. So they defiled. They begot giants and monsters. They begot and behold all the earth was corrupted. So according to the book of giants, the watchers were not only siring their own, progenerating their own offspring. They were also engaged in miscegenation in cross-species genetics with the other animal life on Earth. I think what was going on was that the watchers, rather, when they saw the result of their seed with human women, the power of their seed that it produced these giants in the earth, I think that they got curious and they wondered what their seed might produce,

what their genetic material might produce in the animals. And it might have been more than just curiosity also. Is this where we get like the centaurs and menatars and the satyrs and all that? Let me say that I'm not sure that any of those things actually existed. No. What about like dinosaurs too even? Well, let's take one of those things separately. So in terms of centaurs and minotors and such, I'm not sure that.

any of those specific creatures existed in the world? I don't know. And I'm not sure that the book of Giants is accurate, that the Book of Giants is a true narrative or if it's mythology. Something that separates the Book of Enoch from the Book of Giants is the fact that the book of Enoch is quoted in the Bible a number of times in the New Testament by the apostles, which validates at least the book of the Watchers, the first part of Enoch. Whereas the Book of Giant, is never quoted or even referenced in the biblical narrative. So we don't know if the book of giants, we do know that the book of giants is definitely part of the historical fabric, the, let's call it the mythological fabric of the ancient Hebrews, certainly, because it was preserved with those other

important documents that were important to the Hebrews at the time, to the Israelites. So we know that it was important, but was it considered literal? Was it taken as literal, factual, or was it some sort of a constellation of, was it within a constellation of mythological works? Who knows? Nobody really knows. My sense is that it would have been taken as historical fact, like the book of Jasher, like the book of Jubilee. But the question that we have to ask, before we talk about dinosaurs, is, were the watchers responsible for creating the other monstrosities in the pre-flood world, entities that would have been semi-sentient or sentient entities, creatures that were not the giants. They weren't the sons of the watchers in that they were their offspring.

They would have been creations of the watchers, in my opinion. Because of the word miscegenation, they would have been creations. This was the cross-breeding. The chimera, right? The chimeric genetic cross-species kind of technological genetic genetic manipulation. that we can do today. So was that what the watchers were doing? I think that's more likely what they were doing. And they were probably inserting their own DNA into this mix, because how are you going to get these? And again, I say sentient because if you read through the book of giants, you have instances

in which the giants are talking to the monsters. Okay. So they're conferring with the monsters. So these are sentient monsters. So were these monsters like the centaurs and the minotors and that sort of thing? that is possible that they were or maybe they weren't maybe there was something else and that we we have this idea of these chimeras that we've created and more modern times but that are derived from the essential idea of these sentient monsters roaming the earth in the pre-flood age does that make sense am i making sense yeah yeah i mean is that more i have a quick question on that is that if we're to imagine that Is that more of what we see?

Like we take Lord of the Rings is always a good example of things that we think about. Is that like the orcs or is that like trolls and stuff, stuff like that? Exactly. It would be the dementing of life, of the corrupting exactly what the book of Genesis says, the corrupting of all life on earth. And of course, when it says all flesh was corrupted in the book of Genesis, we have this knee-jerk reaction to approach these. statements from a wooden literalism, that all flesh, all flesh, every single fleshly thing was

corrupted. Well, that's not necessarily what's being conveyed, because are we to think that worms were genetically altered? Are we to think that cockroaches were genetically altered? That every fish was genetically altered? I think that what we derive from this is that much of the animal life on earth, or at least some of the animal life on earth, including the human species, was being genetically altered so that through, inhumaning, Heritable genes, genes that were altered that were not a part of the original genetic profile of that species would be inherited down the line so that you could alter, you could fundamentally alter. You can do it right now today with our technology. You can fundamentally alter future generations of the human species if we alter our genomes now.

If we alter the human genome now and we do, I'm trying to. think of the terminology, germline, germline. So if we alter the germline, germline genetic modification is you alter the germline of a species, the fundamental genetic information of a species so that it becomes automatically inheritable by future generations. And so what you have done is you have in alterably, irreparably altered that species forever. You've divorced it from its original blueprint, you've scrambled the blueprint so badly that it's a different species. And that, I think, is what was happening with many species in the pre-flood age. And so now, why do I think that the watchers were introducing their own genetic material into

these experiments? Because the book of giants suggests that these monsters were sentient. They were conscious. So they would have been very much like these mythological creatures like a centrist. or minotar that were all familiar with from Greek mythology, that they weren't just lions or bears or cows. Rather, they had human traits. It's like Mr. Ed. Like he was talking. Bigfoot. Bigfoot exactly like Bigfoot, although I don't believe Bigfoot was a result of this. I think that Bigfoot is a primeval creature. So this gives us, to sum all of this up, we could be looking at

a scenario in the pre-flod world that was just absolutely nightmarish with monstrous, deformed, chimeric creatures walking around together with the giants who would have been like their cousins who were humanoid, although there were some interesting features like six fingers, six toes and so forth. And double rows of teeth. Yeah, and I don't know about the two rows of teeth. That's another thing that there seems to be some indication that the idea, when it talks about double rows of teeth, that it doesn't necessarily mean two consecutive rows of teeth, like two upper rows of teeth and two lower rows of teeth. That's a whole other subject there. There might be some misconception there. But certainly they would have had genetic markers that were very unique.

And so you have all of this massive creatures existing in the preflow world potentially with these, with these non-human monstrosities apart from the giants. And then comes the cataclysm. We know that the giants before the cataclysm, according to Enoch, were incited to war and annihilated themselves in front of their fathers. Their fathers were forced to watch the annihilation of their offspring. So they went to battle with each other. And so how did they get to the other side of the flood? So I said all of that to sort of paint the picture. And remember, this is in the context of the Ice Age.

So not only do you have potentially these monstrosities, definitely giants, potentially these other monstrosities, definitely giants, potentially these other monsters. Roaming Rom. You have all the megafawn. I mean, you have the freaking short-nosed bear, which was like, I forget, what, 20 feet tall when it stood up on its legs? Monstrous animals, mastodons and the saber-tooth tigers and all of this. And then suddenly you get a post-flood context in which all of these things are gone. And, you know, you have smaller animals now, smaller mammals. And yet, strangely enough, you still have nephaline. you still have these post-flood giants apparently walking around. Here's some thoughts that I had when you were talking about all this

if the watchers more than just injecting their DNA into things. It seems like they want to exterminate all things that God created. That would be more of a reasoning to me. It's just like, can we literally just make everything that God created go extinct? And we have our whole new world, all of our own bastard, of creatures, and we'll take over this way, right? Like, there'll be nothing that God, nothing made in the image of God left. Well, I think certainly there was a deliberate bastardization of creation,

that the watchers were deliberately corrupting the creatures of Earth. They were drunk on their own power, I think. They were, like mad scientists, drunk on their own power and experimenting and seeing what they could do. And we're doing that now. Very much so. Yeah. So, so it's very mysterious, though. When you look back, when you look back into the pre-flood world, it is very, very nebulous. Nothing is clear. Here's a problem. Okay. Let's deal with some practical problems. If there were a bunch of centaurs and minotaurs and these kinds of other creatures, fawns and so forth, they're running around. I think there were. And there may have been. There very well may have been. But let's just look at

this from a very practical standpoint. How is it that we find dinosaur bones all over the place, intact, but we've never uncovered a fawn. We've never uncovered a centaur. We've never uncovered, we uncover mastodons, we uncover giant sloths, we uncover saber-tooth tigers, we uncover all kinds of, you know, all kinds of megafauna and dinosaurs. The man, Tim, just the man. but we never uncover Big brother We never uncover a freaking centaur Well maybe we do

We just think it's a horse And a rider that died together Well we We've done several episodes Tim on just All the thousands of newspaper accounts And they go into detail And they all disappear

So it seems like If they find something that's in Upart They just shell fit And some of the giant Shows up Giant skeletons Yeah giant's just a giant skeletons that are earth.

I mean, we're talking thousands and thousands of them being unearthed and being documented that they were on earth, let alone ones that were unearthed and nobody reported. Well, you can rabbit hole in this too, though. If there's a big, if there's a massive cataclysm and flood, then how far down are these things buried? Maybe we never even get down there. Well, keep in mind that you have a lot of accounts that are very, very old before there was ever a concerted effort to hide, for example, the bones of giants.

is there is a concerted and was a concerted effort to hide the bones of giants. I know that personally to be a fact. So, um, but I mean, Tim, a guy wrote into our show and said his grandpa saw one on his farm, a centaur. Okay. Well, I mean, uh, right, remember that? You should read the emails I get. You know, so. No, but I'm saying like people are still saying they see these things to this day, you know? Well, let me go here, though, because Tim, you talk about, like, essentially there's laboratory going on, right? They're doing all these crazy illicit experiments and genetic experiments, right? And then all that stuff, God's like done, wipe it out. And then we see there are monsters and there are definitely giants post-flood.

Are they just opening the lab again? I mean, we don't know. It doesn't say in the Bible. So as we covered eloquently before, what's the theory on then how we do this before? and it's nasty and it's just a monstrosity and God calls it quits. And I also think in a beautiful picture of the gospel, he also saves Noah and his family. It's the righteous or saved. It almost seems like a forerunner to the gospel story, right? It is. It certainly is. But then you have, then you have a start, in some ways start up again somehow. And then, but you also have weird stuff

like Nimrod becoming a Nephilim, a Nephilim. You have these other bizarro things. Nimrod becoming an Ephelian, that's, that's one interpretation. Sure. But the idea, though, not even that. Let's just forget about that. That's another red herring there. But there's tribes of giants, right? I mean, there's 36 or something tribes.

Well, he began to be a gibbore. A gibor. In the earth, which could mean you could extrapolate that he became a giant, or you could simply derive from that statement that he began to become great in the earth. Either of those would apply. So, I mean, you could go to genetics there and then be like, their genetic markers being turned on.

That's a whole other conversation. We've had that. We've had it with the guests before. I'm curious, your theory, Tim Alvarino, of what happens? Why does it start up again? Who starts it up and what are they doing? It's not, you can go a lot of ways here. We've talked about the ways you can go.

What do you think? Well, we talked about the different hypotheses that, and if you explore each one of those, then you get a different answer. So if you, if the genetic markers of the giants were present in, in Noah's daughter-in-law, Ham's wife, then what would happen is that gene, that genetic information would eventually express down the line, either in her offspring or in their offspring, you know, her kids, her kids or her grandkids or their grandkids. at some point in time that gene would express and you would suddenly get a very gigantic person. You know, you might suddenly have a eight foot tall sun down the line or a 10 foot tall person. So that's very easy.

That's an easy explanation. And in fact, I think a valid hypothesis. So that's how the giants would come about in that scenario. Now, if the giants escaped the flood by going underground, let's say, deep underground. And if they knew, and this is what I was going to say before, if they had foreknowledge of the flood, which according to the book of giants, they did. Because there was a giant called Manway, who was having a reoccurring dream of a tablet with eight names on it being submerged in water. I'm sorry, tablet. I can't remember exact details.

There was a tablet with a lot of names on it being submerged in water. and then when it came out of the water, it was only eight names. And that was indicative of the flood that humanity would be submerged in the flood, drowned in the flood, and only Noah and his family would emerge. It was the dream, his dream was interpreted, I believe by Enoch in the book of giants. And so if Manway, if that's a true account and Manway knew that the flood was coming and that this was going to be the result, then it is conceivable that that some of the giants would have made preparations of their own to try and survive the cataclysm. And maybe that's an explanation for some of the megaliths.

And also maybe they were seeking refuge in the deep caverns of the earth. If they could have sealed those caverns off and if they could have somehow survived, which under the ocean, certainly there are caverns under the ocean that aren't flooded, that's a possibility. Now, one would have to wonder how they would breathe if the entire Earth is, submerged in water and there's no air vent for that for that cave system. So there's problems with all of these theories. But that would be how they would have survived. They would have gone underground. If the entire earth was not flooded and let's say for the sake of argument that

the big foot creature, which is a very robust creature, very robust, if that creature was in fact nephalemic and it simply was able to survive, by nature of its own ability, because it's more robust than human species and so forth, then when the water subsided, they would simply continue to repopulate in those areas where they were able to take refuge. So each one of these explanations, each one of these hypotheses has an explanation of how the giants subsisted, the Nephilim subsisted into the post-flood world. And of course, you have the second incursion hypothesis where they just, The Angels just came down and did it again, which I think is very unlikely.

But and then you, you have this other, you have this other possibility. And that is that if we have a group of very ancient technologically advanced beings, namely the elder race, the apostate sons of God, the apostate members of the elder race, who are on earth in possession of advanced technology and aerospace vehicles, then one of two things could have happened. A, those beings, those people could have taken genetic samples of some of these creatures, including the giants, or even taken an infant giant or children or maybe adolescent giants on board their craft and preserve them through the flood,

or they could have just had the genetic material and then sort of been an in vitro thing and repopulated the race after the flood. So you got all these, the fact that the Bible doesn't tell us how giants persisted through the flood leaves every and any hypothesis open for debate. Some of them are more unlikely than others. But, I mean, the debate is, you know, the possibilities are pretty much endless when you consider the fact that there are and were a group of highly advanced entities. again, these quote-unquote fallen angels who were on the earth at the time, anything's possible.

Where do you lean to him? What do you think? Well, I'll tell you what I don't think. I don't think there was another second incursion. Because the results were not the same. And certainly, we would have found remark on this somewhere in the biblical or extra-biblical text of this other incursion. I mean, that's a big event. That's a big deal. And the repercussions of what happened the first time were so, we're so extreme. And we just don't see that in a post-flood context. So I don't subscribe to a second incursion hypothesis. The genetic material coming through Ham's wife, definitely a strong possibility there. That wouldn't be difficult. And I used to think, and I have to confess that I used to think that that was unlikely because why would God

you know, send the flood and destroy the earth and let that one slip. But then I realized that any, any of these contingencies is amounts to the same thing, right? Whether they came through the genetic line of ham or whether they escaped or whether they were receded or whether and restarted the whole process, it's all amounts to the same thing. It happened again, right? I mean, somebody slipped through the cracks somehow. God allowed it to pursue. cyst in the earth to a much lesser degree, no matter how you slice that one. He did. Did he not? He did. So that's a stronger possibility, a much stronger possibility, the, the, the, the, the, Ham's wife hypothesis than the, than the second incursion. So I lean more heavily towards that than I

would a second incursion. But I think I favor most of all the idea that either a, somebody survived, escaped somehow or they were helped to escape in that, you know, how difficult would it have been? I hate this term, but I use it, a fallen angel to show up in an aerospace craft before the flood and grab a couple of giant. To save his kids, right? I mean, those were their offspring, right? So he's coming to save his kids or his grandkids or wherever you want to look at it. Well, it wasn't, it wasn't the dragon and his angels that were involved in that incursion.

that was the Watchers, which was a separate group. I think from the same cast, but a separate group. Their nephews, nieces and nephews. So, yeah, you could look at it like that. Yeah, so they could easily land. I mean, let's just think practically, right? Let's just think practically about this. They could land.

They could onboard a couple of adolescent giants. Or, or like I said, just preserve the DNA, just preserve the genetic material and do an in vitro receding of their race in a post-lug continent. Now, that may seem very fantastic. Maybe it is, and very science fiction, and maybe it is just completely ridiculous. But having said all that, my answer is, I don't know. I mean, that's my answer. Who knows? Nobody does know. There's so many possibilities. It says in the earth in those days before and after. I don't know if the end part of the earth is something to, you know what I mean? Like, is that something to stew over? Well, if the entire, as I said before, if the entire earth was flooded, every single mountain peak underwater, you got a problem with getting air in those vents, I mean, in those caves, right? In those underground systems. How would they not get flooded themselves? If somebody went underground, then that assumes that the entire earth was not covered in water. I personally subscribe to the fact, the fact, the fact that the that the flood event was global in its effect, because it wasn't the flood. the flood was was not the cause of the cataclysm.

It was the result of the cataclysm. The cataclysm was most likely a comet impact and the melting of the ice sheets. And the flood was was result of that, among other cataclysmic things that we talked about earlier. That's not unlike Sodom and Gomorrah, right? Like this God's casting his judgment through the use of the natural world. Or maybe Solomon Gamorra was just, you know, a predator. drone flew over that town. Yeah, it's a horizon event or whatever they call it. Yeah, I mean, energy beam weapon, you know, shot down from space. Who knows? It could have been anything.

And the point is all bets are off. When you're dealing with an advanced, a technologically advanced civilization, all bets are off. Anything can happen. So God sent those two angels to Sodom or was a Gomorrah. I can't remember off the top of my head here, to fetch Lott and his family. And, you know, how did they get there? How did those angels get there? Do they just make materialized? Did they just appear? Is it like I dream of genie? Do they just sort of wiggle their nose and cross their arms and poof, they're off? I mean, I don't think so. That's a very simplistic and I think incorrect view of the way things work. I think they arrived in their craft. We know, we know that's biblical too, right? Because what does the angel get held up by the prince of Persia?

And you have these. He was in a vehicle of conveyance. He must have been. So, you know, they arrived. They landed in their advanced aerospace vehicle somewhere. They disembarked. They walked into the city. So wow. And then they eventually, you know, they retrieved Lottin's family and took them to safety. So those are the good guys, mind you. Those are the good guys. So the bad guys are of the same cast, the same race. They have the same technology. Also, we talked about what technology did the Maybe we mentioned this briefly. What kind of technology might the watchers have showed up with when they landed, when they came to, in my opinion, came to the Stargate on Hermon.

What technology did they, they didn't show up in loincloths or just robes? You know, these guys are showing up with technology. Like F-150s? Light savers. Much more advanced than F-150. So, you know, well, let's play with the, let's play with Star Trek, some Star Trek technology for a minute. Did they have like food replicators? I mean, did they have, did they have disruptors? Did they have stun guns? Yeah. You know, stun guns and tractor beams and did they have a lab on board?

And people will think, well, that's just crazy. Why is that crazy? We would if we could, wouldn't we? Certainly we would. Certainly we would. So if we would, why wouldn't they? Why do we just, why do we have this disconnect between the practical and the quote unquote supernatural. And that's why I don't like the word supernatural because supernatural is like just fantasy world. It doesn't mean anything. It's show and tell day on top of Mount Herman. I mean, if you were those guys and you knew what you were about to go to. You'd roll it. You would not show up empty handed. You would show up with as much technology as you could get away with bringing and you would make sure that, you know, you could set up shop on earth. well it's him they made they made a pretty good trade for them then right because they they're like

we're going to show these people how to play the flute and how to ride horses and we're taking their women for it instead of giving them the good stuff right i mean they they pretty well we don't know really know what they were but yeah that's a good point i always wanted like like you know out of every out of all the things that the watchers could have taught men why they taught them some of the things they taught them but i think it's an allusion to other things let's not forget that in a post flood context you know when when that account is being written or recopied or written from memory from oral tradition. We don't know that a written document,

any written document of any kind made it through the flood. We don't know. I mean, we would have to assume that there was a written document if Enoch actually wrote something that he would have given it to know. A bit on the arc, right? Along with the other important things.

Yeah. And we know that Enoch wrote. He was called a scribe, scribe of righteousness, they called. Put this in the old box and cover it with pitch. This has got to last a long time. But who knows what, maybe, what happened? Did that document just get deteriorate or was it copied from generation to generation?

Maybe the watchers brought down some fireproof gun safes. We don't know. Or some thumb drives and laptops. So, you know, I mean, now when we begin to talk like this, see, people start to have to, it forces people to think of these things in familiar terms, to have to think practically about these things, rather than we have this box in our mind. It's a super, it's a super. It's like a supernatural trash bin. And anything that we can't figure out or that we don't want to think practically about, we just sort of crumpled up and throw it into that supernatural trash bin. It's like, oh, well, supernatural.

Well, how did the watchers do this or that? Oh, it was supernatural. That's not an explanation. That is literally mumbo-jumbo. It doesn't explain anything. The word supernatural. has no explanatory power whatsoever. It's equivalent to saying magic.

So when you think of the word supernatural, and I want you to do this, for those of you listening, try this out because it's going to cause you to think in a different way. Every time you want to use the word supernatural for an explanation, switch it with the word magical or magic.

like I'm talking like Harry Potter magic not like you know Alistair Crowley magic I'm talking like Disney magic okay switch it with the word magic how did they do it oh it was magical they used magic how do angels get from point A to point B oh well they're magical beings they're magic

that's how absurd it is it's not magic it's technology there's an explanation for everything and we should think in familiar terms when we think about these things. And in the most practical terms we can, we should try and exhaust every practical explanation first before we reach for supernatural explanations. Because again, supernatural doesn't mean anything.

Because, well, that's in the Bible. It's not. Supernatural isn't in the Bible. That word is invented. And I'm not, I don't get angry when people use it. And from time to time, I might even use it myself. It's just understand that it has no explanatory power. So here we are, the three of us sitting here, talking about these very, these very mysterious things, and we're trying to come up with practical explanations that make sense in the world that we actually live in.

We don't live in like a supernatural reality. We understand that if you're going to come from the kingdom of heaven, which is somewhere else, somewhere out there, you're going to come to earth that either you just, you're going to come to earth that either you just, you're I dream of Jeannie and you just, you know, like I said, you just wiggle your nose and poof, you're on the earth, or you have to use some kind of a vehicle of conveyance to get here, like we would have to do. And so that's what happens when you take that supernatural explanation out. It forces us to have to come up with more practical explanations. And when we do that, I think we get closer to the truth.

And so this is a good exercise, you know, what we're doing here for people to listen to because we're trying to come up with practical explanations of how, for example, the offspring of the watchers, or at least the genetic markers of that race made it through the flood. And so when I say, well, what if the genetic markers made it through the flood in a test tube on board an aerospace vehicle, that's not magic. That's not super natural. that is actually a that's a plausible scenario

if you assume that this angelic race is technologically advanced. Is it not? I think Luke, part of me wonders like, Tim, if we had this conversation a year ago before we started this podcast, I would be one of those people.

I would be like, I have my supernatural trash bin and I have no context or framework to understand anything you just said. But now it doesn't even give me that thought of, Oh man, that's crazy. I don't know if it does that for you now, Luke,

but a lot of these ideas, they're not startling. It makes you think like maybe our whole story and what we call the fall of man is really just us trading our souls for technology and starts at the tree of knowledge, right, of good and evil, right? And then you see it again in Genesis 6. And then it makes you wonder how much right now we have people, even now, that are working with some of these beings

in a trade for technology, you know, for our salvation or our soul. How do you want to put it? I mean, Tim, is that fair? That kind of sounds like if you think back. It's like, hey, it's a reoccurring thing for sure. If you eat from this tree, you can be like, God, you can know the things that you know. You can know all the things, not just some of the things.

And again and again. It's certainly a reoccurring theme. And by the way, when you talk about that the knowledge, when you say knowledge, what you're talking about is information. And you can imagine Adam and Ian. in paradise, interacting with a member of the elder race, the serpent in the garden. That's who I believe that was. It was the dragon. I mean, John tells us that it was a dragon. That's serpent of old, the dragon who is the devil and Satan. And when John says that's serpent of old, he's clearly

hearkening back to Eden. So the dragon is a member of the elder race. He is an angelic being. And not an angelic being with wings and, you know, that metamorphosizes into a flying saucers, something like that. But an angelic being that looks just like us. And he's got all this information. He's been around for a lot longer. I mean, there's histories, untold histories behind Adam and Eve. So there's technology, there's technological knowledge, there's historical knowledge, there's philosophical knowledge. They would have been in all of their elder siblings, just like we would have. They would have been in of their elder assemblies. And that's why, you know, when human beings in the biblical, in the context of scripture, when they encounter angels in some cases, and they drop to their knees. They're just in

all of these beings because they are superior to us in terms of their nature. And so, and not just in terms of their nature, in terms of their information, their knowledge. I'm making some connections in this episode because, you know, you hypothesized that some of these creatures could have survived on craft. And over the years, listening to Bigfoot stories and reading Bigfoot stories, a lot of people say just that, that these craft come down, pick up creatures like Bigfoot, take them away, and then bring them back. Right.

So it seems, so I've heard that on other podcasts and other stories that I've read. I think that, yeah, I think that Bigfoot in that, in those scenarios, the Bigfoot is, the bigfoot creature is enslaved to the grays to the entities operating the craft I think that they use

those creatures and potentially here's a here's a thought you know I look I'm wide open on these questions because who the heck that's all we want on blurry creatures but listen let's talk about I'm going to give you another bigfoot angle here

give it to us so I happen to think big foot is indigenous to the earth which means he's a primeval creature. He's a primordial creature. Maybe it may be maybe even was here before Adam, right? That's a possibility. He did make it on the arc, or he wrote a UFO and then came back. Well, whatever the case.

Or here's another alternative. Here's another alternative. It's kind of 50-50 in my mind concerning the big foot. Here we go. The other alternative is that the grays brought them. Yeah. That they showed up with the grays. Why do they interact with human beings and sometimes they do, they save people?

Sometimes they help people. One thing that I find very intriguing about the Bigfoot encounters is that most of them are telepathic. Yeah. Yep. Well, Luke and I are developing that on the show. Yeah, but only for inside jokes. So it's really limited. It's really limited.

Well, you know, so the Bigfoot creature, which, again, I very, very much convinced that Bigfoot is a real creature. It is a sentient creature that is sentient on a different level than we are. It's, I would say, subhuman. It's not on par with us in terms of its sentience. It's subhuman. Years ago, I heard those stories about people saying Bigfoot goes on the UFOs and flies away and comes back. At that time, I heard that three or four years ago. I thought, that's insane.

And now making the connection of what you're saying on several episodes. So it's, well, that's kind of what you're describing then. Maybe the Watchers did to preserve giants and other creatures. So we have these modern days. Let's back up for a moment here because really what we're dealing with here, and I know I can sort of sense what some people in your audience are going through. They're going through this difficult growing pain of transitioning from a very simplistic. And this is, by the way, not a slight.

All of us have to go through this. transitioning from a very simplistic, supernatural worldview into a much more difficult, complicated, practical, tangible worldview. And that transition is uncomfortable because it is so easy to come up with supernatural answers for things rather than working through and trying to figure out logically how something could actually happen. So, and the reason why I said that was because we have to sort of remind ourselves of what these stories are actually implying. And what I mean by that is when you read the book of Enoch, one of the judgments of the watchers was that they would have, they would be forced to watch the destruction of their children.

Do you remember that? That they would be forced to watch the destruction of their children. So before they're thrown into prison, basically, and their beloved children, they love their children. What happened was that one of the angels was dispatched to, incite war between the giants, that the giants were incited to war. And this was done, I believe in part as a distraction so that they wouldn't interfere with Noah. Giants went to war with each other. And so the watchers have to observe this.

They're forced to observe this and watch their offspring just slaughter each other. And this was a technological war, by the way. And this wasn't giants beating each other over the head with clubs like a Disney cartoon. These were giants possibly tacking each other's megalithic fortifications. I don't know, maybe, right? And maybe using, remember, their fathers are the watchers. So they're not thrown sticks and stones at each other. The watchers shared their knowledge.

They educated their children and their wives. So they educated their families. They gave mankind the scraps. They gave mankind here, here. I'm going to show you how to make a breastplate of bronze or something and a sword. but they're not going to give mankind any kind of information that is going to compete with their offspring because it was the watchers and we talked about this last and the objective of the watchers was to was that they could rule by proxy behind the

thrones of their hybrid sons who took dominion of the earth who were human enough to assume the birthright of Adam which is the minion of the earth and do so legally so the fact that the giants were incited to war with one another they actually went to war with each other Well, that should cause us to think for a moment, to ask the question, to ponder the question, if God wanted to destroy the giants, why didn't he just click his snap his fingers and evaporate them? Why didn't he just, you know, I don't know, like you ever see the in the Guardians of the galaxy that one dude with the Mohawk, the artificial Mohawk that whistles and that arrow? You ever see that?

Remember that movie with the arrow just sort of flies all around and can kill? a thousand people in like 10 seconds. I'm sure some in the audience will remember that. Why didn't he just... Yeah, why did he just do something like that? Like send an arrow with infinite velocity that just flies around the earth and, you know, penetrates through the eye socket of every giant on earth and kills them? Or some ridiculous thing like that, right?

No. Instead, the giants are incited to war. So what I'm trying to get us to think about is that things are not the way that we, think they are. It's not just like this all-powerful God, which he is all-powerful. Absolutely. I absolutely affirm that. But this isn't the way he works. This is evident in the scriptural narrative, that God does not work in the way I'm about to describe. That this all-powerful God who wants to do something just doesn't snap his fingers and just make things happen. Instead, he uses the processes that are already built into nature. He uses the,

conflicts and he uses the creatures and the intrigue and the politics and everything. He uses all of that to accomplish his will. And why am I saying this? I'm saying this so that we can have an open mind when we think about something surviving, the flood, for example, or apostate sons, the quote unquote fallen angels, you know, onboarding a couple of adolescent giants or something. nothing is ever wholesale. If God wanted to, he could have gotten rid of the dragon a long time ago. Sure. But that's not the way the kingdom of heaven operates.

There's conflict. There's, and this is a theological question, very deep theological issue, and I'm just trying to skirt the surface of it here. So we can start to think differently. What I'm saying is this, the giants are there fighting each other. they're in conflict with each other. God could, if he wanted to get rid of the giants, why didn't he just one off them right there and then? Instead, he incites them to go to war with each other.

The same thing with the flood. The flood comes and it washes away the abominations of the watchers and sort of cleans the slate so that creation, God's creation, can be receded in a post-flood context. But keeping with this theme, it's very possible that other entities that some of the giants could have escaped. They end up in the promise land. Why did he allow that to happen?

Well, that is a question. Yeah. Do you think there was salvation for giants? I think that there's a dividing line between human and non-human. The question is, where's that line of demarcation? There's no simple answers to these questions. These questions are very difficult. Where's a line of demarcation between human and non-human?

Well, I can tell you that when that line is crossed and you are no longer human, then you have crossed over into an irredeemed. state. Why? Because the gospel of Christ, the sacrifice that Christ made on the cross was only for his kinsman. He was a kinsman redeemer, a kinsman redeemer. He only redeemed his brothers, the members of his race, human beings, only mankind. So if you no longer qualify, if you're not a human being anymore, then you no longer qualify for redemption in the cross of Christ. Now, where is that, like, line of demarcation. Can you, can you be a hybrid human, but still human enough to qualify for redemption? Yes, you can, but I'm not going to roll those dice, number one. But so were the, could the giants have qualified for, or can they qualify for redemption? Remember, their mother is

Eve, so to speak. Their mothers were human women. Yeah. So, so they have, And I believe that they were human enough in the post-flood context to assume to appropriate the birthright of Adam, which means that they would also have been human enough to qualify for salvation. But where's the dividing line? Where's the line of demarcation there? Yeah, that's a whole other podcast. Well, it's impossible to know. All I can say is this, that at some point in time, whether through genetic modification or whatever, you can cross that line of demarcation. and become something other than human to where you no longer,

you're no longer apart, you are no longer a part of the human race, you are no longer an offspring of Adam and Eve. Where is that line of demarcation? Maybe only God knows. I would never, ever, ever roll the dice and take any kind of genetic modification that was either modifying any component of my genome, modifying it, in other words, making it no longer a human component or receive components that

come from other animals. See, I can draw my own line of demarcation of what I will not do, but to answer the question of when is something hybridized enough to where it's no longer human, that is a question that nobody knows, nobody. Maybe only God knows. But it's important to understand. I think after several episodes with you, we definitely understand it. And I, I think we got a little time left. We got a little sideways, Tim. I want to just to finish that thought, though, on why God doesn't intervene when he could.

Well, God never intervenes in the way we think he's going to intervene in the way that we would intervene if we were God. And so we have to stop thinking in those terms. Well, God wouldn't do that or why would. And I used to think, I, again, and I admit my own ignorance on this, in a position I used to hold, which was pertaining specifically to how the offspring of the watchers, or at least the genetic markers of the watchers of the Nephilim, made it into the post-flood world. My attitude used to be, maybe five, six years ago, used to be, well, X, Y, and Z explanations are invalid because God would not have allowed whatever.

But I can't say that anymore because I had to come to the inevitable conclusion that no matter how you slice it, God allowed it. matter how you slice it, it doesn't matter. He still allowed it. Even if you, even if you take a second incursion stance, he still allowed that second incursion. And there's a lot of, remember, that Jesus himself said, the kingdom of heaven suffers violence. And the violence, and the violent take it by force. So there is continual conflict. It's not just that the good guys always win in every encounter, there's give and take, there's battles won and there's battles lost. That's the nature of a conflict. Otherwise, it would just be controlled opposition. And it's clearly not controlled opposition. It is clearly a conflict. Again, you brought up, one of you guys brought up the

the angel was hindered from reaching Daniel. The very fact that an angel can be hindered on his way for delivering a message, dispatched from God, by the way, dispatch from the king of heaven. to deliver message. That should tell us that things are not as black and white as we think. And so let's just be open-minded about the possibilities and not impeach the character of God and not accuse people of impeaching the character of God. Yeah. Because we subscribe to one of these hypotheses of how the Nephilim, one or another hypotheses of how the Nephilim made it through the flood. So, and I think that's the overarching point here because you can, you can, you, and there's probably a dozen other things we haven't even thought about. The adventure that's been going on in

my life for the last decade has been going through those very growing pains that I was expressing earlier, going from a very supernatural, intangible, ethereal view of the Bible into a very raw. There's a transition into the practical. There's a transition into the familiar, from the unfamiliar, from the intangible to the tangible, from the supernatural to the logical. From the 4D to the 3D. That's actually a good way to put it. That's a very good way to put it because we can't conceptualize four dimensions, but we can three.

Look at you, Nate. Yeah. Look at you. It's the hair. And so starting to understand things in ways that we can conceptualize them based on our limited knowledge is getting us closer to reality. It's not pushing us away from the truth of the scriptures. it's getting us closer to reality.

Yeah, exactly. And I think if you put it in like three-dimensional terms, like they're rolling in on their Tomcats and they're landing on the mountain. You know what I mean? We can go, oh yeah, I know what that is. I've seen that. And it makes more sense to me.

And it also makes things more believable. It's a good way to put it. Yeah, that's a good way to put it. It kind of pulls it out of the realm of fiction into nonfiction. even though people who subscribe to the supernatural worldview. And by the way, when I say supernatural worldview, I'm not talking about the way that, for example,

the way that most people use it in our community, which is that I'm trying to say this while using the word supernatural. Imagine magical. That extraordinary things, unexplainable, extraordinary things happen in the biblical narrative. No, that is true. That is correct. And that's what most people mean when they, say a supernatural worldview. And I completely subscribe to that worldview. Extraordinary,

unexplainable things absolutely happen. But what I mean is when we think of supernatural, I mean disabusing ourselves of this fantastical view where the things that happen are akin to magic. Heiser gets people into this supernatural worldview, but I think you take it even a step further of like, let's bring the practicality into it even more. We can explain these fantastic things in very practical terms, and I think that's, like you said, is a 10-year journey. We've probably got to wrap it up,

but I have one last question of like modern-day cryptid sightings. Are these things coming out of portals underground, or have they been around since the days of the Refayim are, you know, the dogmen creatures, the Bigfoot creatures, all kinds of crazy things that people describe and ride into our show. Have they just been around since the dawn of time? Are they being created still? And is anything fascinating? Any of those creatures, like, hold any interest of yours besides Bigfoot? You know, I would say that it's funny because I turned down the opportunity to host a show about monsters some years ago by a major production, TV production studio. And the reason why I turned it down was because...

You don't care about it? Well, it's not that I don't care about it. I mean, cryptids are fascinating. And having lived in the Amazon, believe me, I've been exposed to a lot of stories about cryptids that most people have no idea. You know, that's not familiar to them. We're all familiar with Bigfoot and Lochness Monster.

But, I mean, you should hear the stories in the Amazon. I'm fascinated, absolutely fascinated by kids. cryptids, but it is a, it's a minefield, and this is why I turn that show down. It's a minefield, because so much of it is just absolutely impossible to validate so many people. Human beings were so susceptible to perceive things in a certain way. And so you get people who are convinced that a certain kind of a creature lives in a swamp, say, and they get a brief glimpse of something. And then later on, they begin to extrapolate and fantasize about what they saw. And so you end up with somebody who's trying to report something that actually occurred, an experience they had,

but there's a lot of fantastical elements that were added into it later. And so that's why it's a mind field. People see things every day. I mean, people see all kinds of things. And we all know that most of what people see has very mundane ordinary explanations. And it's, people are just misperceiving something. And, and then there again, they're confabulating the details.

Well, the dogmen and the Bigfoot, those are the two probably top creatures that people still see these days. And they all describe the same thing. They say the werewolf, the werewolf type creature and. The hairy man of the woods. You know,

I haven't actually with my great letters. And I talked to a lot of people. You know, like at conferences and stuff who come up to me and want to talk to me about cryptids. I've heard a lot of Bigfoot stuff like crazy, detailed, bigfoot stuff, a couple of guys coming up to me at the same time. We were out hunting. Both of us were out there. We were looking, you know, across the field. We both saw this thing, you know, stuff that's hard to deny.

But I've never one time ever had anybody come up to me. and talk to me about a dogman sighting. Oh, yeah. Not yet. Ever. And I'm not saying that that's just my subjective experience. I'm not saying that the dog man doesn't exist. But I almost feel like people got bored with Bigfoot.

And so they started getting more interested in this dog man. Maybe some people have started to, again, confabulate even a Bigfoot siting into a dog man thing. I don't know. I've never, I've just never encountered the dog man phenomenon. Well, yeah. Well, it's aware. I mean, most people just say it's the werewolf, which has been in lore history. And you've got to wonder if some of these accounts in ancient history, they've been just kind of hiding out, breeding in the woods.

Maybe. Anything could be out there. I mean, you would think, though, that if there's a whole lot of these different diverse things running around, we would be encountering them much more often. And don't forget, everybody's walking around with a camera in their pocket now, everybody. The Bigfoot creature is elusive, and it's the reason why you don't get photos of it most of the time is because it lives in very remote locations. And don't forget that Bigfoot is very likely telepathic. So not only can he hear you coming in terms of your football, he can pick up on your brainwaves before you even whatever, even, you know, but probably before he would hear you with his ears. So I think that this is like sort of an extra sensory,

extra perceptive extra sensory thing that Bigfoot has that we probably had at one time as well, that allows him to avoid you at all times. You won't even get close to him unless he wants to get close to you, unless they want to get close to you, or unless under some extraordinary circumstance, you happen to catch them unaware. So don't be thinking about Lady Bigfoot, right?

Because then he comes out to mad. He's like, who's this guy walking through my? I would. Maybe that's a good strategy for picture hunters. It's a new approach. And who knows how, who knows how, you know, when you talk about telepathy, I don't, I don't know, you know, when you think about distance, when you think about, we know we have,

we project brainwaves. I mean, I don't know. I don't know the science, what, how, what the distance would be or whatever. My point is this, there's, there's some extra sensory faculties that the Bigfoot is employing that allow him to avoid us much better than we could ever avoid him. is what I'm trying to say. And so we think, oh, how can there be so many Bigfoot's walking around? And yet, you know, if it were us out there at some point in time, you know, we would be caught

with our pants down, taking a piss, you know, a tree or something, a bunch of, you know, Chinese tourists taking pictures of us. But that's not the case with them because they have, they have much more powerful and extra sensory faculties. And also I've heard that the Bigfoot's always deploy a scout whenever they're in the area that's watching out, looking out precisely so that they don't get caught. And, you know, as fantastical as that sounds. And the reason why I'm highlighting that is because there's so much information,

so many people have encountered the Bigfoot creature all over the world. But yet, like when you talk about the dog man, when you talk about the locknest monster, when you talk about the swamp creatures, when you talk about all these other things, teradactals. Reptilians, insectiles. Reptillion creatures. There's much less data. Yeah, yeah.

Bigfoot's the gateway. I don't know. It's just fascinating because people still see a lot of this stuff today. And you have to wonder, I think that's why we go back to the beginning. Yeah. If that's the origin story. Or if they're being conjured up from, from deep down underground. Maybe, you know, I mean, I do subscribe to some extent to the hollow earth theory. Now, not entirely, there's different hollow earth. What's a whole other podcast? There's different hollow earth areas. Like there's a big sun under there, black sun, and that, you know, that there's a whole other world. I don't know that I subscribe completely to those notions, but I do think that there is a very expansive living space

under the surface of the earth, much more expansive, much more comfortable and habitable than we think. And if you think about the surface of the earth, and you picture the earth like an orange, for example, and that skin of the orange, that skin around the orange, that's what we, we can actually inhabit, right? And that's us digging down hundreds of feet. That's what that skin represents. But below that skin, you have the majority of the mass of the earth that's there.

For all the juices. We only live on a very, on a very small sliver. That's what the juices. We only live on a very small sliver of the earth in terms of the, in terms of the, the circumference, the volume of the earth. So if there is habitable zones within the earth, those zones could, in fact, in theory, could be comparable to the habitable zones on the surface in terms of their size. So we could be talking about an immense expanse of livable environment beneath the surface of the earth. And if that's the case, if that's true, and I'm inclined to think it is to some degree, if that's true, then again, as I said, all bets are off. You talk about technology of the elder race. All bets are off in terms of things that might happen, that play.

plausible things. If there is any truth of the hollow earth, again, all bets are off in terms of what creatures might be under there, you know, what might be going on under there. There could be all kinds of things. Yeah. That don't, living creatures that don't inhabit the surface of the earth, they inhabit, for lack of better term, the underworld. Well, we just interviewed this guy Fritz Zimmerman, who went all to, documented all the giant mounds in North America. And he says that basically his theory was that these mounds were portals for to the underworld, that that's how they conjured up these creatures out of the earth. And we'll have to do a whole other episode on Hollow Earth with you and maybe the Fall Brothers

or something. And because I know they did a lot of stuff on that. Tim? Tim has been magical. But Tim, yeah. In every sense of the word. It's been supernatural. It's been supernatural.

Hey, there you go. Hey, you want to get people some updates on lecture series and the trip and everything? I know we talked about it briefly in the beginning. Yeah. For those who are unaware, I've been doing a lecture. series on YouTube. I have a YouTube channel. How do you have a YouTube channel? I thought you were canceled. I was. And then I just changed the name of the Gen 6 channel, which I created and was operating. I changed the name to just put my name and modified some things. And so far the algorithm hasn't,

I guess, it hasn't dawned on the artificial intelligence yet. But so I was, I'm able to have a YouTube channel so far so good. And I've been periodically uploading. I'm actually going to be uploading one either tonight or tomorrow morning, the next, the next installment in my Birthright lecture series. And the Birthright lecture series is based on the content of my book, Birthright. And I'm on episode five. Well, I've completed four.

I'm going to be uploading either tonight or tomorrow morning. Well, I don't know when your audience is going to hear this podcast. but by the time they hear this podcast, it will probably be up already, episode five. And I do it in English and in Spanish, and that's why it takes me so long to complete an installment. They're only 10 to 15 minutes long, but I got to do them in English and Spanish,

and it's more than double the work to do that, so it takes me a lot longer. But yeah, you go over there and take a look at that, birthright series, and then also I'm doing a Amazon cruising conference from the first to February through the fifth, It's all that information is on my website. Timothyabrino.com.

You'll see the cruise button in the menu, and there's also a banner for it. You can go see all the information about the cruise. We are more than halfway full on the cruise. It's only going to, it's only going to accommodate 30 to 40 people. A lot of hesitancy, a lot of hesitancy on the cruise from people who are worried about COVID issues. And for those who are concerned, obviously it's a concern for everybody. But I do have a clause that if there is any kind of a event, vaccine mandate either for the airlines or to get into Peru, that the trip is going to be

automatically canceled. And everybody gets a full refund. So I've covered our bases as much as I can with that. So you can take the leap and, you know, come on, you know, sign up for the cruise and pay for your ticket. And if there's a vaccine mandate, well, you just get, you get your money back and the trip is automatically canceled. So anyway, you can sign up at Timothyabrino.com. And also for people who want to follow me, whatever I'm doing, if I'm doing an interesting interview, it's hard to do it for podcasts. But like if I'm doing an interview like on YouTube or something, or I put up new content, I send out a link on my mailing list so people can always be tracking with me what I'm doing. So go sign up on my mailing list if you're interested in following me.

And I also have an Instagram account. It's just my name, Timothy Albrino. Well, I follow you there. All right. So, I mean, that's a lot. But, yeah, thanks a lot for having me back on. It's always fun talking to you guys. And just sort of, you know, thinking through these things is fun.

And it's fun. It always helps me also to further evolve my positions and my thought processes on these topics. So I really do appreciate it. And you guys, you approach it with an open mind. You guys are not using the phrase we were using earlier dogmatic. And so that allows us to have an open conversation in which all scenarios are on the table. And that's always fun. Yeah.

Thank you, Tim. Thanks, Tim. Until next time, maybe Hollow Earth is in the future. Yeah. Whatever you want to talk about. If your audience isn't tired of me by now. This is the, this is where all the juice comes from, man. this is great.

Thank you, Tim. It's always good to see you. You guys. You too.