Blurry Creatures - EP: 64 Demonology with Dr. Judd Burton & Doug Van Dorn

Episode Date: October 26, 2021

A Blurry Creatures first, Dr. Judd Burton and Doug Van Dorn join forces for a megacast on Demonology. This episode pulls back the curtain and exposes the Kingdom of Darkness. These two biblical experts unlock the origins, scripture, and extrabiblical texts on the demonic. Is there more than just one type of demon? Can these entities shape shift or take on the form of other spirits? What about all the other shadowy and obscure creatures in the Bible? Judd and Doug take us on a journey into the abyss.  Guest: Doug Van Dorn http://douglasvandorn.com Dr. Judd Burton http://burtonbeyond.com contact: [e-mail] blurrycreatures.com Socials instagram.com/blurrycreatures facebook.com/blurrycreatures twitter.com/blurrycreatures Music Kyle Monroe: tinytaperoom.com Aaron Green: https://www.instagram.com/aaronkgreen/ Mastering: ironwingstudios.com Outro Song: TimeCop1983: timecop1983.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Luke so often, people email us and they have this story. They're out in their woods and they're looking in the bushes and they got, what's that? And when you are pouring your dog food and your dog's bowl, that's the last thing you want to say. What is that? What is the stuff coming out of this bag? You know, I don't think a lot of us think about maybe what we feed our dogs. And that's why we partner with rough greens. Most of us would love to have our dogs, you know, live as long as possible. I mean, I just lost my dog in December. And I would have just, I would have loved more time with Carl. And one of the things you can do to get more time with your dog is to feed them better. Dog owners don't usually realize that live nutrients, that their dog needs to thrive or missing from the food. You just talked about. What is that, right? That's where Rough Green comes in. It's America's number one dog supplement that you sprinkle on top of their food. It's packed with prebiotics, enzymes, omega oils, and 20 live vitamins and mineral support digestion, energy and overall health from the inside out. It's all natural made in the USA and thousands of dogs are feeling younger, more energetic and healthier than they have in years. That's why we love it.

I'm giving it to our two dogs. You know, I've got older dogs, Nate, as I said. And so, you know, since they've been getting rough greens with their food, I've noticed they have more energy. their joints hurt less, they're older. I mean, they were talking 12 and 13 years old. And Rough Green's really made a difference in their energy levels and the pep in their step. So if you want to do what we did, you can get a free jumpstart trial bag for your dog today. Just cover the shipping. Go to Rough Greens.com and use discount code blurry.

That's RUFFF Greens.com discount code blurry. Rough Greens makes any dog food better. I think we divorce hell and heaven and earth. and we separate them, maybe too much. I mean, definitely heaven, the idea is that it's up and hell is the idea that it's down. You know, you can go into the gates of hell like, you know, at Panias. There's a gate to hell. Lead you down through a cave.

But notice that there's a connection point between them. And I think about that story in Samuel Kings where the guy has his eyes open and all of a sudden he sees all these chariots all over the place. right so he didn't see that until his eyes were open and in all of a sudden he realized oh they're already here like there's an overlap between this world and that world this world hey welcome back to blurry creatures thank you guys so much for tuning in every week seriously can't say thanks enough people sharing the show giving us a rating on iTunes and supporting the show I just want to say thanks to the members like I love doing this podcast I've caught the fire for it. Luke and I have a lot of stuff planned. We're interviewing Tim Albarino today. And then we have

Derek Olson talking about Lovelock Cave Giants. We've got Chief Joseph Riverwind tomorrow. We're pouring in a ton of time and effort into this podcast because we love it and we want to keep this thing rolling. We're over a year and a half into this. And if you're thinking, man, I don't want to invest in these guys because they're going to stop podcasting or something. Let me just tell you this. If you become a member of this show, you give us the juice to keep going. guarantee you, I still feel like it's day one of this podcast right now. Making memes, sending messages back to you guys, booking more guests. We're in.

We are in. And every time someone signs up to support the podcast, it just gives us that juice to keep going. And I hate to, you know, preface these shows with these kind of ads. But we keep the show ad free. Personally, I don't want to disrupt the flow and the vibe. Sometimes these topics are heavy into theology. My last thing you want to hear is to add. So if you feel compelled to keep this show a good listen, start to finish,

cruise over to blurry creatures.com slash members, help support the show. I'd love to produce way more content than we currently do, but we're hustling other things in life, trying to get to that point where we can just record episodes. And that's what I want to do. I feel passionate about this. I love everyone who listens and tunes in. I love the guests. I love that we text outside of the show and then we're building friendships and community.

This is way more than a podcast and it's way more than I ever thought it would be. So with that, thank you for support in the show. Thank you for even those who can't become members. Thank you for sharing it with friends and supporting what we do and just being interested in the truth. I mean, really that's what it comes down to is a lot of people out there are just hungry for the truth right now. And so are we. And I guarantee you we're not going to give up. I guarantee you if you support this show, hop on board.

You're not going to be supporting some dudes that are going to give up. I will not give up. I'll keep going till the end. I know Luke is right there with me, so just want to throw that out there. We love you guys. We love this show. And sometimes in the midst of all the chaos, you know, blurry creatures has been just this gift that keeps giving to me. And I appreciate you all.

Thank you. The history of our earth is so different from what we can imagine. Joy to join. The Smithsonian, that if they found out about a large skeleton somewhere, was to go get it. I'm going to assume at least one person is right, because if one person's right and bust the paradigm, it all goes back to the fallen chair. And the problem with the modern day church, they have a very truncated view of supernatural. This backdrop that's just pregnant with all kinds of meaning associated with this Mount Herman event.

And this guy defects. from the kingdom. That's a big deal. Nate, you want to start the show? Yeah, I'll do it. Welcome back to the show, guys. Two of the show's favorites, Dr. Judd Burton, Doug Van Dorn. Thanks, gentlemen, for coming on.

We're doing a Halloween special. Jud was texting us about doing a Halloween special on Demonology. With a man, Doug Van Dorn. And this is like a panel. This is great. This is like an eighth of Blurriecon. Like we just had,

if we got alberino and hyzer i wouldn't forget somebody they're going to be mad but you know the whole crew yeah when is that happening when is that happening it's a good question we're getting there we're hey blurry con i love it man we're number one in uganda this week so to all our uganda all our ygona fans all three of you guys we love you love you yeah it's a little bit of a somber week for everybody

there's been a we lost a few heroes you know but so i know i know jed you were yeah close to rob so it's rob skeeba sad times man and we were we were just emailing and texting with russ like a couple weeks ago too russ too um wow i love both those guys we haven't said anything on the show yet so but i know that everyone's in a little somber mood but thanks for coming on gentlemen i well i guess who wants to start this who wants to get into this you guys are working on some stuff together maybe you can fill in our listeners of what you guys are working on and kind of bring us up to speed and we can hop in. Yeah, I mean, I think it's kind of related some ways, huh? Judd? Absolutely. Yeah, so a few years ago, I was looking around on Google Earth and found this.

I was looking at the Gilgal Raphaim, which is the wheel of giants up in the Golan Heights. Today's Golan Heights. Back then, it was Beshan, the place of the serpent. So this is probably actually why I was looking at it. Not much out there. And all of a sudden, like, this thing struck my eye. It's about a tenth of a mile due north of the wheel. You know, the wheel itself is like related to Og and the giant. And when you get into all that, I'm sure tonight. But and I said, man, you got to get on Google Earth right now and go look at the wheel.

So he did. And I said, what do you see? Look closely. Just look north. Tell me what you see. And all of a sudden he goes, dude, it's a serpent mound. And I said, yeah, right? So serpent mound.

there's plenty of them in the world that we know about. So a little while after that, I called up Judd. I didn't know Judd at all. And I don't even remember where I got your phone number, Judd, but showed it to you. I'm still trying to figure that out. And Judd, I got Judd super excited about it, man. So we decided we want to start trying to write a paper on this thing because Israel knows about the mound, but they call it a ridge. They just think it's a natural ridge.

And they know about it just from archaeology and some of the same. stuff that's on top of it. But we believe that the mound itself is worth excavating. We think that it's very significant and nobody knows about it. So we're trying to get that published. That's awesome. It's crazy what you can find on Google Earth. Right. It is. And once Doug told me about it, I was just like, how did I miss this? I mean, it's just, it's right there just proximate to Gilgal Refayne, which I probably looked at a thousand times at least. And it had never, they were just these separate pieces of information that I had not collated the way that Doug had.

You know, I knew about, about Bashan and all the variance of its meaning, having done, you know, my dissertation research on Pinaas, because one of the provinces had been Latinized into Batania, which was the Latinized rendering of Bashan. And that beshaw meant the land of the serpent. And it just, when he told me about it, I was like, gosh, how in the world did I miss this? But there it is. And it's proximity to, you know, Mount Herman also very significant. And the fact that you've got these features that are pointing to the north,

the cardinal direction north towards Herman, is significant too, because that's the direction of evil. it's the realm of gods of the Phoenicians and the Canaanites like Bell. It's pointing in the general northerly direction because Mount Saffan where Bill was supposed to have held his counsel is to the north. And so in Hebrew radiation, north was a direction of evil and wickedness, which adds a layer of meaning to the whole issue. And it seems like every time Doug and I talk, there's another layer of meaning that we found to not, not only the serpent mound, but also in conjunction with the nearby Gilgal Raffine. How big is the serpent mound?

Oh, I can't remember off top of my head. It's 60 to 80 feet wide, I think, throughout for very consistent, and it seems like it's near a mile long. So it's absolutely gigantic. Wow. Yeah. And for those who don't know, what is the wheel of the giants? Can you explain that real quick?

Well, it's a gigantic heap of stones that's in the middle of nowhere. and it's got it's circular. There's several layers of circular construction, I don't know, four or five, six of them. There's a center tumulus, which is, there's a, there was something that was inside of this thing. It could have been a burial chamber, but it's been long since, you know, looted and they don't know exactly what was in it originally, probably aligned to cardinal points. And so it probably is some kind of calendar significance. the most interesting thing to me about it is that this idea of a wheel and

Aug's name is very much related to the idea of a wheel and so for whatever reason he has particularly become associated with that thing and you know this was actually right in the area that he resided when when Moses confronted him and ended up killing him that's be Sean yeah so is it like a hinge like when we think of like stone circles is it like is it like a stone hinge kind of a thing? Sounds bigger. You could call it a hinge, kind of. You know, last week I was looking at the serpent mound in Ohio and found a scholar

who was talking about how there was probably one or two wood hinges that were very close to it. In fact, one of them is in the exact same place as Gilgal Raphaim is in relation to the serpent mound. That's fascinating. So essentially they're matching on different parts of the planet. Yeah, they are. Yeah.

Sometimes it feels like when you get that phone bill, it's like the crash site document. You can't read it. There's a bunch of numbers, random fees, vague language, stuff's blacked out. You're like, what am I actually paying for? I don't know about you, but I like keeping my money where I can see it. I like to be simple. I like to be easy. I'm going to be throwing away money on big wireless carriers.

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Very. Only at 711. Valley 36, 2326, participating stores only while supplies last the app for full terms. So when can we expect this? So when can we expect this paper, this scholarly endeavor of our two pals here? Well, we keep finding new stuff. We're just going to have to find it. It's like my old committee advisor used to say, you never finish a work.

You just have to find a stopping point. And that's where we're, that's where we're at right now. Yeah. But I think I think we're pretty close. What do you think about some of the, like, the spirits that were supposedly connected? They call them the dark ones that are connected with the giants. Does I think there's anything to that? And that's kind of a good segue, though, Nate, to, I think, talk about the origin of what we want to talk about tonight,

which is demons because a lot of people don't know the history of where the church and the Jews both. And I would say probably outside of those groups as well believe that demons came from. So the idea is that, and this is, by the way, this is a universal idea. This is this was something that every Jew that we know about until the second century AD believed. And we have over a dozen sources to talk about it. And every Christian prior to, oh, 250 AD, and there's only one guy for the next hundred years after him, who even seems to have, you know, questioned it. So that's three, 350 years longer than we've been a country. The entire church was in agreement on this question.

So what is the origin of demons? The idea is that the sons of God, these watchers are definitely related to Mount Herman because that's where Enoch says they came down. And I believe that scripture definitely hints at that too. They come down, they see our women. However, it happens, there's offspring that are produced called the Nephilim. The Nephilim are these giants. And when an Nephilim dies, where does it go? Well, it's not a heavenly being because it's a half breed.

It's not an earth. It's not a humans because it's a half breed. So they don't naturally reside in heaven. They don't natural reside on earth. So where do they go when they die? They become the spirits of these. the air, which are the demons. I got a list of 30 different quotes from church fathers and Jews all saying the same thing. The demons are the disembodied spirits of the Nephilim.

This is great. So roundabout ways. We've talked about the definition that Doug gave us about the disembodied spirits of the giants. We talked about the watchers, the progeny of the watchers. But we haven't really gone into depth. I'm excited to kind of get into really laying groundwork here and origins and the impact. So I guess my first question, And then dug on that is the progeny of the watchers means that they're obviously hybrid. So they, their spirit doesn't go anywhere. It doesn't go to Hades. It doesn't go to the underworld.

It doesn't. So it's stuck here. And so, maybe. Okay. We, we do have texts that talk about in Isaiah and Proverbs that talk about, uh,

the Raphaeim being down in shield. And so this is a place that you don't want to go to. We have, there's obviously no evidence that they would go to heaven or, paradise or anything like that that's reflective of the the refaim tradition that they were associated with the underworld not only not only a case of hebrew tradition in terms of shiel but the mesopotamian absu where the rava basically the mesopotamian analog for the rafiame would dwell and also the in the phoenician material the eukuritic material it's the same sort of thing the raphaumi

dwell in the underworld. So there does seem to be some sort of branch or chamber of the underworld that's that's dedicated to a certain amount of them. Yeah, Einaw talks about this, doesn't it? Where it says that basically nine-tenths of the demons that perished in the flood were going to be punished very severely. And then I don't remember who it was. Somebody bargains, makes a bargain and says, you got to leave some of them around.

And so they agree. read on one-tenth of them will be around left on the earth to haunt the earth to wander around here and cause havoc. Yeah, the unclean spirits, which is interesting because that same phraseology shows up in the New Testament too. It's more of that connective tissue that Doug was talking about. Is Enoch the first person to talk about the demons then? No, we have information long before that, especially outside of Israel.

Yeah, what is the origin? Like what's the first? Well, I mean, that's a good question. I mean, there are plenty of other sources, but Doug, would you agree that chronologically, Enoch is probably the first? If this is a condensed oral tradition that gets written down much, much later, wouldn't that make Enoch amongst the first? It would definitely make it amongst the first, you know, because there's other pseudipigrapha that we don't know, we can't date precisely that are talking about the same thing.

right you know it just makes the exact origin of questionable but there's no doubt in enoch is very influential and very is there a hierarchy how does that work i mean it's yeah i think that there's a hierarchy it's a you know everything in the demonic realm is a um facsimile or mirrored version imperfect version of what you find in um in in the order that yawai lays i like the way that that Sharon Gilbert describes it. You know, there's the divine counsel, and then there's the infernal council. There's the mirrory reflective version of it.

And so, yeah, that hierarchy definitely stays in place. And depending on what amongst demonologists throughout history, you're going to find a lot of variation of interpretation, but the place to go back to is always, of course, the canonical scripture in this related apocryphal material. But yeah, yeah, there's definitely a, pecking order as to the driving the unclean spirits into pigs i think that it's kind of interesting what ultimately happens to them they don't want to be thrown into into the abyss uh and yet they

they run off a cliff and where do they end up in the abyss in the abyss yeah they end up in a version or they jump off into this lake which which i think is a nod to not only uh the abyss but probably also the flood, which destroyed their flesh in the Noahic event. So this is always symbolism. It's also interesting that that takes place on the eastern side of the Sea of Galilee in Guess where? In Bishon. Oh.

And Mishon. Yeah. I love that. Isn't there two classes of demons? Like the Shadim and what's the other one? Shardium. Shardium and Shadir. You're talking about the Hebrew tradition?

Yeah. It's not a dichotomy. I mean, it's more diffuse than that. Those are definitely two versions of demons. The satir-like shedding and the more, I suppose you've got a little more elbow room in terms of the way that they manifest with the other. But yeah, they're two types, two types of demons. Well, okay, so here's a question, though, because I think there, in one way, there could be a lot more. than that.

I agree. That's why I say that there are only two. Yeah. Oh, we think so. There are many blurry creatures out there, Doug. Yeah, and I tend to think that many of them are related to the demonic world.

So many years ago, as I was trying to figure this stuff out for myself, because I didn't know any of you guys, so I couldn't talk to anybody. So that's kind of where I started to write. And so I'm writing this catechism. And the catechism is a question and answer, you know,

basically written for children. And I decided to do it on the supernatural and talking about God and the gods and have a whole section on giants and stuff. And I ended up sending that to Heiser, who ended up editing it and it became part of the companion, it became the companion guide to his unseen realm. But there's a whole bunch of questions that he cut out because it wasn't really related to what his book was about. One of those questions, I have this question. I thought I'd asked Judd this question. What kind of strange things might demons be related to? That's the question. And so my answer is,

Demons are identified as evil spirits and are related to dead Refayim, human animal hybrids of antiquity such as centaurs, the liliths, satyrs, scorpion men, sirens, goblins, fiends, and possibly vampires and zombies, hairy monsters such as werewolves, Bigfoot, and Yeti and UFOs. Oh, ha ha ha ha ha ha. Let's go. So does that open up, does that open up the can of worms for you guys? I mean, that's going to be the intro of the show. It sounds like an episode list for us. Well, it makes sense, right? If you think about it logically, if anything has this different DNA in it, it doesn't just dissolve.

So it has to be left to remain. So you would think that the same creatures that were in this life are in the afterlife, right? And in some shape or form. In some shape or form, yeah. Makes sense to me. Judd, what's your thoughts on that question? Well, I mean, I, you know, this, this is really the bread and butter of the program that I have on preternatural morphology is how these, how these demons manifest, you know, along cultural lines. Because, you know, as we talked about on a number of occasions, they're masters of engineering culture and fitting into and getting ensconced in culture.

I mean, they do it. They're still at it today. I mean, they do it with pop culture in the United States today. To Doug's point about them, you know, being related to, you know, creatures like the vampire or the were wolves or zombie or ghouls or revenants or, you know, any number of folkloric traditions, I think that there's a lot to that. In the case of the vampire, the first person that I ever saw that linked the demonic nature of the vampire with the pre-flood world, that is, these Nephilim spirits that were destroyed in the flood,

and that Enoch, you know, he's basically dictated this judgment to give to them by God, and he gives it to him, and they're supposed to be these unclean spirits that roam the earth, and they're hungry and thirsty, and always seeking flesh, but they're never sated. Well, Summers connects this with the nature of the vampire, not just the Eastern European folkloric vampire, but vampires since antiquity and all over the world, because the key elements of the vampire, they all circle around the taking of blood or life force of some kind. You know, there's lots of cultural variation,

but the fact that they show up perennially in world folklore and represent real experiences of people, I think speaks a lot to the demonic origin and the demonic nature of them, that they're, however they appear, you know, demons are clearly using knowledge that they inherited from their watcher forebears to pull some of this stuff off. When you talk about the vampiric stuff, and then you think about like the consuming of blood as a right in some of these satanic and occult.

And we think about how communion on the Christian side is this sacred right where we connect and remember the sacrifice of Christ. I didn't ever thought about it, the flip side of that. being that there's this occult, or there'd be like the whole adrenochrome thing that people talk about, or even just we know these satanic blood rights happen. There's this inversion of... It is. And the vampire is kind of that, like the embodiment of that perversion and inversion of this sacred right with God in this really horrible and I guess demonic is the right term figure. Yeah. I mean, in the words of...

of Sean Manchester, it's a terrible parody of Christ. You know, what the vampire offers is a false immortality rendered by death. Well, Jesus gives the genuine immortality by his death, but it's an eternal life full. Not a life of taking, but a life of giving. And, you know, down the line, if you look at all the central tenets of, of character traits, if you will, the vampire, you'll find that most of them are this,

this glaring parody of Christianity. Right. Doug, this reminds me something you said on our very first episode with you that said there was some sort of neutrality. You mentioned that you could even kind of use a demon, almost like a tool. Yeah,

I think our context of that was talking about idolatry. This is in, I read this in Augustine's city of God. I forget what I think books eight and nine. And he's talking about how essentially demons were not viewed in outside of Israel as entirely evil like Jewish religion did. They were they were neutral creatures. They could be evil or they could do good. And so the idea of an idol then is to create a house for the deity to reside in whereby you'd be safe. and you can manipulate its power for your own purposes. Yeah, interesting. We kind of talked about that yesterday, Nate. I guess it depends which one, which demon gets in there. Some people say that, you know, that the angel of death that comes to Egypt and kills the firstborn son might have been, I don't know.

Is that a demon? Is that some sort of evil spirit? Certainly possible. I'm not, yeah, it's possible. I tend to lean on the side of, you know, that it was a member of the angelic ranks doing the bidding of God, but it's certainly possible. I mean, because every bit of the demonic hierarchy is still subject to the will of God. So in that respect, they can certainly be used as instruments of God. I got a question here.

I mean, Doug, do you have any more? First off, first of the question, do any more questions that didn't make it that we can chat about? And then second, so my question is this too, is this too. Are the demons as we know them or the demonic? If there's a hierarchy and there's entities, right, you have these principalities and these, and it goes up to this infernal council, as you just said, as you just said, are they, is this a coordinated, they work as a coordinated effort or are these much like they're, when they were alive, are these insatiable, bloodthirsty, just kind of chaotic rogue things

that are just operating onto the destruction of humanity or man or do they work in a coordinated are they working like like the screw tape letters right is it like is it like is it more like that or is it more just like some dust devil kind of you know gnarly Tasmanian devil kind of things that just that just are you know agents of chaos I tend to think the answer to that is yes it's both it's it's all that it just just like here it's a you know we rogue people we have people that are part of institutions people that are part of hierarchies people that lead people that follow people that don't want to have anything to do with anything and i i tend to think that that side of it's the same way and i think that it goes i think that that probably goes for both

the demonic world and the watcher world you know the the olympians didn't all get along all the time but I suppose if they needed to, they could. One, two, one, two, three, four. Give me a break, give me a break, break me off a piece of that Kit Kat, buy me a break, break me off a piece of that Kit Kat bar. Give me a break, give me off a piece of that Kit Kat bar. Have a break. Have a Kit Kat. I think if you look at it, you know, politically, initially there had to be some sort of

infrastructure, you know, for the coup, if you think about the machinations that were involved when Satan rebuilt, you know, there had to be some sort of infrastructure. Now, but again, I agree with Doug insofar as that is that it's both. I mean, they are part of an infrastructure, but they also are selfish and greedy and self-serving. And they operate along impulses that that would benefit solely of them. So, yeah, there's no reason why it can't be both. You have, you have agents that fall in line and then you've got assets. You can say they have an appetite for destruction.

Yes, you could. So you asked about other questions. And, I mean, I got a million of them. Let's go. I'm ready. All right. So here's some of the questions. Why are demons called spirits?

And the answer is demons are not angels. heavenly beings with some kind of body but are by nature disembodied and are therefore spirits how might demons be responsible for the stories of demi men well the giants themselves half heavenly creatures corrupted themselves with animal flesh as if such unions could produce offspring offspring this would account for the existence of satyrs sirens minotaur centaurs most of which astonishing astonishingly show up in the old testes Testament, which nobody knows about. Because of bad translations, right, Doug?

Yeah, that's exactly right. I mean, isn't the word itself, Damon, Demi, like, the man, demon crossover, kind of? I don't know. Is it roots of the word even somewhat? Good question. I don't know the answer to that. Jud is the word. He is the word smith.

Well, I mean, Daimon shows up in Greek as the, you know, as a kind of spirit that could be good or nefarious, but they were usually thought of as these sort of, almost personality bereft spirits that interacted with humans. Like Socrates used to always talk about his eudaimon, in other words, a good demon that would guide him and give him advice about teaching and things like that. but yeah

the prefix demi is a prefix all into itself it's not necessarily phonetically related to words like you daimon and dimone and dimone and dimon

it's interesting because we didn't I just talked with this yesterday when we're talking about these in the book of Aug and they have apparently these giants have these dark spirits

that lead them in it and to me it sounded like almost what you just said it's like that whole new age like spirit guide thing where they have this sort of the access to the spirit playing they have this spirit guide that tells them what to do and who to talk to and what

decisions to make and it sounds like I mean it's very it sounds very demonic in nature like yeah it's almost like you got this Ouija board that you're continually playing and asking and asking for you know for impetus yeah yeah I mean it's you know people access it in different ways you know whether through Ouji boards or meditation or you know prescribed ritual or hallucinogenic herbs ingested, you know, ayahuasca and yahay and peyote, they're all, you know, they're all really, really popular right now

because people think by ingesting these exotic sources of DMT that they'll gain some sort of enlightenment. And they end up interacting with these entities that Play Act as being out for their benefit, but they're, you know, not all of these experiences that people have are positive, and they report seeing a lot of the similar kinds of things like these reptilian figures and things that look like the the Kachina priest in the American Southwest,

the clowns in black and white, just some really strange stuff. But there's this thread of continuity in those kinds of experiences. And so, yeah, people use and have throughout history and over many, many different kinds of cultures, use different methods to seek out communication with these spirits. Do you think that's some of the knowledge that was imparted by the Watchers? These were tools to access stuff? I don't know how to... I think so.

I think it's part of the technological package. If you want to think of it, the practical sciences married with the occult sciences, I think at least partially. Yeah, I mean, the traditions are that the Watchers taught us, you know, the cutting of the roots and medicinal. plants, so why wouldn't they do the hallucinogenics and stuff like that as well? So if the dragon sits on top, right, and this is Satan, Lucifer, the dragon, whatever you want to call them, sits on top of this, of the coup, of this third of heaven or this, the darkness,

the principality, so these regional entities, these aren't the same as these maybe lower level demons that are possessing people and animals and whatever else, they need a body, right? How does that hierarchy work? And where does that, I ask me my question is, where does that go from, from a demon to like a son of God or to a fallen angel status and less of an disembodied spirit. I would love to understand that a little more. Yeah. To me, that's a tough question in some ways.

You know, there's a lot of, a lot of terms that are used by the New Testament that are kind of in a family of thought that are all dealing with rulership. So you've got principalities. You've got rulers, authorities, thrones. dominions, all those kinds of things are all, they're all talking about ruling, even stars, which is language for as well. But the problem is, you know, so I tend to think that the principalities, that those kind of guys are the watchers. But if you go back and you look at a guy

like Nimrod, who definitely is associated with demigods in history, and it seems to be, even in the biblical text. I mean, the subduigent translates him as a giant. So the founder of Babylon, I mean, this dude was weird and whatever. He was definitely a king.

He was a hero, like a Hercules kind of a guy. In fact, in fact, I think he might have even been Hercules, frankly, the root of it. But,

you know, so if he was a ruler here, wouldn't that possibly transfer over to the other side? So, you know, there's definitely authorities that are demonic that are not purely watcher. Which ones of those words are they? I'm not certain.

I've read also that like demons can be categorized by where they are and where they dwell, like some of them that are underwater or under the earth. I mean, I've heard that demons can cause like accidents and kill people and then they can make people become animalistic. They can, depending on their rank or where they're at, different things occur. I don't know. I don't know how weird do you get, but, um, yeah, that's kind of, of a tough one too. Like you had brought up some of these words from the Old Testament earlier. And

it talks about things called ghosts. And a lot of people confuse ghosts for demons. And I don't think that ghosts are demons. I think ghosts are human dead. And most likely they're unbelieving human dead. Because believers are going to be with the Lord. But what is it? Where does ghosts go? It doesn't seem to be in heaven. So, but I don't think it's the same thing as a demon. But the reason that I got thinking about that is you hear about ghosts. like haunting houses or places, right? So that's that's a kind of an entity that's residing in one place. You can go to up to the realm of the watchers and the zodiac and how the zodiac is mirrored to heaven and earth. And so like Virgo's over America, Leo's over South America, that kind of stuff. They don't seem to

move. So again, they're kind of fixed. But you can also have ideas of like ancestor, familial spirits that kind of travel down the line of a family. Those wouldn't be geographic. stuck in one place, but they would be, they would be able to go with the family wherever they go. So it's a similar kind of an idea, but just not tied to geography. That's weird. I mean, yeah, those are things happen, like these generational sort of. Yeah. Absolutely.

Yeah, there was one with my grandparents. I remember being a kid. Yeah. Like, my dad's got crazy. You can go stories from this house where he grew up. And then whatever it was followed them to my grandparents. house when they moved and it was there again and it wasn't until my my dad and my uncle like seriously prayed over this entire house and broke this thing off that it disappeared but that stuff

is crazy to me like we the whole ghost thing is hard for me always to wrap my head around too because I think we have this idea that if you're a believer you go to heaven when you die and if you are not then you go to hell right that's the that's the you're the judgment throne of Christ and you and you haven't you know you haven't accepted that free gift of salvation so a ghost then is that is that just like a gosh like a like a spirit trail like you have this sort of like right and echo or something like that yeah I don't know and I don't even know what that means man we're talking we're in a bigfoot podcast so it's not like I have to know but it's like you know that stuff is wild like I trying to understand what a what a ghost like what that is because we got whole shows we get I mean

there's what what show is is discovery I or whatever, not the murder channel. The other one, it's all ghost hunting. They're just looking for this stuff. Yeah. Well, the funny thing is they're always, often they're built on these ancient burial mounds or near them. So.

Well, and trauma seems to attract. I mean, whether you're talking about any sort of, particularly demonic spirits are attracted to that sort of thing. They just sort of feed off of it in a lot of cases. That's why trauma is such a, such an integral part of these luciferian satanic rituals you know traumatizing children traumatizing people i think you one of you guys mentioned adrenachrome a moment ago and that's one of the things

that generates you know greater greater amounts of adrenaline in the blood by the same sort of logic i think you have events that transpire in these locations that draw these entities there I think we divorce hell and heaven and earth, and we separate them, maybe too much. I mean, definitely heaven, the idea is that it's up and hell is the idea that it's down. You know, you can go into the gates of hell like, you know, at Panias. There's a gate to hell. Lead you down through a cave. But notice that there's a connection point between them.

And I think about that story in Samuel or a king. Kings where the guy has his eyes open and all of a sudden he sees all these chariots all over the place. Right? So he didn't see that until his eyes were open. And then all of a sudden, he realized, oh, they're already here. Like there's an overlap between this world and that world. And I think the veil is, is like allowing you to see that overlap and possibly, possibly allowing us to cross over and them to cross over, which, of course, is forbidden.

but, you know, I just, I think that might help to account a little bit for how could an entity, like, how could an unbeliever die and go to, in the Old Testament, Sheal and the New Testament go to the equivalent Hades and yet have a ghost that remains in the house? Well, maybe there's some kind of a connection going on between those two places. So does that make sense? Yeah. Like a portal, right? Like maybe this, maybe it's, you know, I've always heard, and I don't know how accurate this is, but like these places. or atrocities or sins or and repeated sin or ritual sin happen, it's like it opens a portal. And we talk about portals in the show in different realm, but maybe it's a jump-off's point.

You know, I don't know. I think Doug just brought us into the realm of quantum physics too, because we're talking about multidimitionality. But yeah, the different dimensions occupying the same space, in other words. And I think that there's an implicit language in the Bible about, you know, it's not, they aren't called dimensions, but, you know, I think that there's an implicit, you know, multi-dimensionality in the scriptures themselves. Didn't the ancient Jews, ancient in the Hebrews?

And they believed that, like, heaven was here? Like, it was already, it was here. It just was like it was, like, like, you're saying, it was like an overlap of realms. A good example of where those realms overlapped were in, were in antediluvian places like Eden. I mean, clearly there was something different about this garden that God put in the east of and because he was walking around with him and they were walking around with him and they were, you know, it was like, hey, God, why is it sky blue? Well, because I wanted it to be.

You know, they're able to actually directly ask God anything they wanted to. They had everything they needed. It was provided for. So, yeah, I mean, I think that there are a number of passages in the Bible, you know, that sort of speak to this, you know, multiple dimensions occupying the same space. Like Mount Herman. When Jacob sees the stairway, which is in a stairway at all, you know, it's really, the idea is a ziggurat, but the cosmic mountain, which is a reflection of Eden. But it's, you know, in the case of Babel, that's Eden created by men to reach up to them. It's not in the biblical ways, God comes down to us.

And the pagan way is we go up to them and we try to bridge that gap. And there's ways of doing that. But the point of those things, the point of any, the point of any temple at all, whether it's Stonehenge or biblical temple or the pyramids or, you know, a mosque, any of those things, is that they're mirroring down here what's up there in an attempt to tie the two together, you know, for all kinds of reasons why you'd want to do that. But, you know, in the case of Israel, God came to the temple and dwell. inside of it. Why do you do that? Well, this is a microcosm creation of his design that is paralleling what's going on in the invisible realm.

That's right. Yeah, that's a great point. Like, Moses came down from the mountain and built it, you know, built it in a building tabernacle. Yeah, they're all tied together. The tabernacle and the camp is actually a replica. The tribes are 12 tribes, four in each side. So it's four-sided, three in each side. How many is that? 12. And this is a picture not only of the invisible realm, but of the visible heavenly realm of the zodiac circling the earth. So all these things are tied together. Well, the flaming swords that guard the entrance to Eden seems to suggest that it's not too far away.

Right. Like it wouldn't be something you couldn't access. And it was enough of a probability of accessing it that they had to create a barrier. between us and then maybe it's just that you know sometimes people will show those on UFO shows or if they put on a specific lens on their camera you can see UFOs flying around a lot easier it's like a I did that I did that Sedona you did you did you did I got the military grade night vision that's like 20 000 X and you could see dude it was we didn't talk about this in the show Nate because the short story is my wife had owned a trip that she was president's club for her job

and it ended up being Sedona because international trips were canceled. And we went and we're like, it's going to this UFO tour, you know, bloody creatures. And I saw some weird stuff. I expected to be just hokey as all get out. And it wasn't. It was actually kind of weird. Like use these military-grade stuff and you see stuff flying around. Angel vision.

Angel vision. I mean, I don't know. I don't know what it is. It's like, you know, this is stuff that's not. satellites because it doesn't satellites don't like move in non non orbital arcs right so well there's lots of Christians out there that talk about they're born with the ability to see all realms a few people have written books about that I've been able to see these spirits since I was or the angels and demons or whatever you want to call them since I was a kid what do you think about those

stories and to go back to what you were saying earlier Doug you hear stories of possession of like toys like, you know, dolls and even smaller toys. And then you... Chuck is the worst, man. And then you... Chuck is the worst. Stay away from Chuckie. And then you hear stories of exorcisms that are so dark that the priest never comes back.

He's like mentally... Yeah. Oh, yeah. Something... So clearly there's a hierarchy here, right? Obviously, those entities aren't just running around and getting into, like, toys and things. Yeah. There's the whole idea of the trickster god.

I mean, I don't know quite. Right. Loki. That. Yeah, Loki's an example of the trickster, but I kind of tend to think that, of that kind of a thing of possessing a doll or whatever.

That's kind of trickster. Those are kind of rogue dudes, aren't they? And I really jive in with the rest of the group. They're doing their own thing. That's about installing fear, right? And that's a good way to do it.

I mean, you start making inanimate things do animate things. Well, I mean, the trickster motif, I think, can be a product. applied broadly to the demonic hierarchy.

You know, like Doug pointed out, there's Loki and Norse tradition. There's the coyote and southwestern Indian tradition. Even the devil is a kind of trickster figure that fits within that motif. And so I think it's part of the character makeup in general of, I mean, after all, we're told that they deceive us, right? their deception is part of their repertoire, as it were. But in terms of spirits occupying items, there's a whole history of this sort of thing. You know, Doug brought up the inhabiting of idols earlier in the program. Well, it's the same kind of logic.

If you want to think about it as a kind of demonic infusion, you can. It's the sort of facilitating, in other words, like the ritual facilitation. facilitating of demons inhabiting objects. And, you know, there have been any number of artifacts and objects over the, the history of the world that could be, you know, considered, you know, objects that hold, hold may not be the right word, but, but can be vested. In a way it is, like, have you seen these, uh, these, uh, ritual bowls that will have, like a prayer in the bowl?

Uh-huh. And then at the bottom of the bowl, it will have a symbol of a symbol of, a creature. Like the idea seems to be that somehow the bull can trap that entity through the ritual. Yes. And that's it. Interestingly enough, that is a practice in voodoo that's being imported in mass over our southern border right now. And what is that ritual? So what do they do? They would take a box usually that they would try and contain one of their Loa's in or one of their ancestor spirits in for any number of uses. But usually, communication to divine some sort of knowledge from the other realm. It's very much at the heart of

voodoo. I mean, they willingly traffic in spirits, the ritualism that they engage in and their ceremonies under the auspices of their priests, the Hogan's, and the priestesses of Mambo's, all deal with the willing submission to be occupied by the spirits that they call the Loas, which consequently are said to live underwater at the bottoms of sea. and rivers. Does that sound familiar? Well, that's what I've, that's what I've read about the demons is they're, they're specifically ones that are categorized underwater. It's just really strange. Do you guys think, do you guys think demons operate differently in different cultures?

Well, I think this all, it circles back to their, the motif of cultural engineering. I think that they, they use existing elements of culture to ensconce themselves and also think that they, they continue to manipulate and manufacture, elements of culture, if you want to look at it from the anthropological side, to be able to fit within those cultural paradigms. So, you know, I mean, the short answer to that is, is yes. Do you think they're rogue, or do you think that they're loyal to Satan himself? I think that they're both. You know, I think that there are some that are rogue. I think that they're rogue, but they have a nature about them. And so it's almost like they're, they're impelled

to do this out of their very nature. And it ends up serving the original satanic coup, if you will. But then I think that there are those whose mission it is to do this sort of cultural engineering. And in much the same way that I discussed in that paper that I wrote about the manipulation of language. It's the same MO because folklore is just another element of culture. And then they are just sort of in limbo, right? they get to do what they do until until judgment, right?

They two are castling like a fire, correct? This is a delayed judgment for them like it has been for the watchers and the things that are in the abyss. Doug, you want to take this one? No, you go for it. I think that, you know, and I brought this up before about

do the demons, you know, do the fallen angels, do they think that they're winning or have a chance to win? And I think a lot of that has to do with the fullness of the Gentiles that's referenced in the scripture about at what point does God say, okay, either enough people have heard the gospel or all the people that are going to hear the gospel over space and time have heard it. I think that even if it's delusional thinking, I tend to think that the demonic realm thinks that if they can somehow stay that, whatever

shape or form the fullness of the Gentiles takes. And there's scholarly, and theological debate about that. But I think that that's part of the marker for when their, as you put it, limbo ends, you know, and their machinations for what they think is trying to win, whatever form that takes will end as well. And then you'll start to see the judgment being carried out. You know, the Bible is very specific. The demons know scripture.

They quote it, right? And it's almost like they think they can subvert prophecy. if they can remove the avenue for this process. Well, yeah, and how many times are we told in Scripture, both in the Old Testament and the New Testament, that there's power in the Word. You know, the power of life and death is in the tongue. And in the occult, in thalmaturgy,

and all kinds of occult practices, what is at the heart of Spellcraft? It's the use of words. It's the use of language. Often the formulaic use of words, but the intent is always anathema to what's in Scripture. So there's another example of the demonically influenced practices making this shadowy mirror reflection of what God presents.

Speaking of languages, you know, you hear those stories of people who these demons know languages. Right. Old languages. Some dude that's never heard it before and he's going through it. an exorcism and all the sudden perfect Latin comes out of his mouth. Yeah. Talk about that a little bit. Do demons tell us things, give his clues to the past? You know, it's interesting, just the whole language thing and Babel. So if Babel is the creation of Eden, kind of a replication of Eden, but a man-made attempt to go up to God. And, you know,

my view of it is that they were somehow contacting the gods, the divine counsel, the watchers, whatever. And what comes out of that is this, you know, separation into the 70 nations. And those nations are then given over to the sons of God, the whole Heiser worldview. But those 70 nations end up having 70 tongues, don't they? And it becomes babble to everybody. You know, if what they're doing is essentially occultic and demonic, then right there, in Genesis 11, we have kind of the roots of this idea of the word and Babel and the power of the word and the confusion of the tongue and trying to undo that, you know, think in our day with Google, translate and all this kind of stuff that we're doing to try and undo the problem and why I think it's because we're trying to get back to Babel, frankly.

Yeah, I mean, a lot of people, you know, they think the demonic possession, especially a lot of the more modern day Christians, you know, they tend to think that. this stuff is all made up and like how can a 16 year old kids speak Latin? Or it's mental illness somehow like this. Yeah. It's like it's not, you know, just get to take a pill. This is, we have a pill for you to fix this. So that's kind of an interesting segue to something. I think you guys would be interested in.

I think the listeners will be too that I've just, the last 10 years, I've become more and more convinced that evangelicals, conservative Christians, you know, Orthodox Christians, we have become so natural unsupernaturalized in our worldview that we don't even recognize it. Like we're products of evolution in Darwin and as we sit there and fight against evolution in Darwin. It's really a weird thing. And one of the most interesting examples I can give to you is a couple of passages in Isaiah.

And this comes from what is usually, I think, a good translation in terms of supernatural things. But in this case, my goodness, I think they just. absolutely bomb it. And so this is in the ESV. And this is, Isaiah 34, 13, and 14. And then Isaiah 13, 21, and 22. So I just read the ESV for both those passages. Preach. Preach it, brother. First one says, it shall be a, they're both, by the way, they're both background is they're both talking as oracles. One is against Babylon and one is against Edom, both of which have tremendous this supernatural crazy background that we could talk about, if not this show, another one. Here's these two passages. It shall be the haunt for jackals and abode for ostriches, and wild

animals will meet with hyenas, and wild goat shall cry with his fellow. Indeed, there the night bird settles and finds for herself a rest in place. And then the second one is, the wild animals will lie down there and their houses will be full of howling creatures. their ostriches will dwell and the ghosts will dance. Hyenas will cry in its towers and jackals in its pleasant places. It's time to close, its time is close at hand and its days will not be prolonged. So you read that and you go, well, what's the big deal about that, right? The problem is, when you go and you look at the Hebrew and at the Septuagint, almost, now all the birds are generally speaking okay,

which is an interesting because like if you get into like owls and stuff like that unclean owls like this is hardcore associated with demonic imagery yeah um but the animals themselves these hyenas these jackals and stuff without exception every one of those has in one translation or in the original the greek in the subtoagint things that are completely different from this all right So see if I can find my own ideas of translation for this. I don't know if I can or not. All right. So here's my two translations just to kind of give you a feel for how different it could be. The first one, Isaiah 13, Babylon will never be inhabited or lived in from generation to generation, nor will the Arab pitches tent there, nor shepherds make their flocks lie down there. But phantoms will crouch down there. And the houses will be full of howling. Monsters will live there.

and satters will dance there. Likens will howl in fortified towers and dragons in their pleasant palaces. Isaiah 34 would read, Hawks and owls will possess Edom. Great owls and ravens will dwell there. It will be a home of dragons and a boat of monsters.

Phantoms shall meet centaurs. Satters will greet each other. There the lilith shall relax and find yourself a resting place. The tree snake shall nest and lay eggs and shall brood it and hatch in its shade. there to the buzzards shall gather with one another. Yeah, I was going to say the original one sounded more like chimerical creatures.

It really is. And so this idea that the ESV just is totally natural, it's just unclean animals, nothing to see here, move along to the next chapter. It blows my mind. And what's the killer for, the clincher for me of this and the fact that these should be translated, at least some of these should be translated supernatural creatures, is that John in Revelation comments directly on this passage. He's talking about Babylon.

And he says in Babylon, it will be the haunt for every unclean creature and for demons. And he uses the word demon. Well, where would he get that idea from? He's taking it directly from Isaiah. He's not making it up any more than he makes up anything else in that book. Right. Even if there's wiggle room with some of the other word,

I mean, you can't get around the sherry word. I mean, you're talking about demonic entity that is the Levantine equivalent of the Seder. And Lilith, I mean, that's probably the most glaring example of vampirism in the entire Bible, because Lilith modus operandi was to go around and feed on the blood of infants and children. Yeah, she's a total vampire. And that's literally the Hebrew word that chooses is Lilith. Lilith. And then you get the ESV.

calling it a night bird. I mean, what in the world? Should have just said Epstein. There's some translations that I think say night demon or something like that, which is more accurate, but it's still not the total, it's still not, I mean, let's say if you just read it in the Hebrew, it's right there. This creature that was known throughout the ancient Near East and variations of it all throughout the Aegean as well.

It feels like the gilding of the supernatural. And it's essentially... Very much, you. That's a great way to put it. It's totally emasculation. So here's a question. Does Christ's death change these creatures' ability to proliferate, to breed, to have control over certain areas?

Is there something significant that happens when he is crucified that sort of releases this stronghold that they have on society, their power? so to speak, because it seems like there's a time when they're everywhere and then they're not everywhere, or they're less prominent. Jesus's death deals the mortal blow to them. So they've been defeated, legally speaking. This goes for the watchers, the fallen watchers, and the demons. Like they do not have the authority that they once had.

They had legal authority to do things before, but they don't now. However, you know, you go to a country that's never heard the gospel ever, and you see that demonic possession is as prevalent as it was in any place in the Old Testament, in Babylon, anywhere, anywhere. It's because the power to kind of defang these creatures isn't just in Christ's death, but it's also in the proclamation of the gospel that he has defeated them. and that when people come out of that kingdom of darkness into the kingdom of light, they can't do the things to them individually that they did before. And when you get the church to become strong in

proclaiming what Christ has done in his death and resurrection, then you're just naturally going to see these things go, first of all, underground, but second of all their influence is naturally going to be less than it was because the civilization itself is changing. And this is part of what I think it means that the glory of God is going to spread over the earth. He does it through his church. And the power of the gospel, we have no idea the power of the gospel. And what we're seeing in our day is the church abdicating its responsibility to proclaim the gospel. Heck, man, many churches don't even know what the gospel even is anymore. And when that happens, the power then to, in my mind, to bind these creatures goes away and then what's going to come up in its place.

I mean, nature abores a vacuum. And so there's a very good reason why we're seeing the resurgence of paganism in the West in ways that none of us could have imagined five years ago, 20 years ago. And it's because of this reason. So they've had to change their strategy. I think this is kind of what Judd was getting at. But their strategy was that, you know, you have this kind of Christianized, Christendom culture.

And in some parts of that, they're able to flourish. I mean, if it's a paganized kind of syncretistic Romanism, they don't have much of a problem growing in that. But if the gospel is really strong, then the only way that you can come back from that is to first get rid of the gospel. And so you attack it, you undermine it. And I think that they've done that through the philosophies and words, you know, postmodernism, rationalism, the Enlightenment, the whole deal has been a long term plan to get us to where we're at today

where people don't know the gospel anymore. You won't proclaim the gospel anymore and now they can come back with a vengeance. Well, I mean, those verses you were talking about in Isaiah, talking about the creature specifically, and that's kind of the crux of how our show operates and what we're looking for and how we go in and out of theology and how we relate it back to the big foot creature and all these other creatures that are discussed in the Bible. And, you know, it takes a couple of hundred episodes, I think, to paint the picture to to explain modern day sightings because people will write us in and say their grandfather saw a centaur on their farm or whatever.

We got that email. We got that one. He showed up with the mailbox and then he rode off or walked off. Yeah. How can you make sense of this? Wow. Yeah. I mean, how can you make sense of these things?

So what these people do is they launch these paranormal channels and they just talk about all the weird stuff, but there's no origin. right there's no genesis of any of this stuff it's like well how does a centaur in 1908 just roll onto a farm and leave and there's there's often no method to what they do either what that what they call scientific they'll roll into one of these places and stay for a day or not or something like that and there's no longitudinal there's the the type of pseudo-ethnography that they're involved in is is completely laughable i mean it's just just pure. I was thinking pseudo-ethnography myself. It's just pure, it's just pure fluff.

I don't know what that means, Judd. Well, I mean, ethnography is like the gathering of cultural data that cultural anthropologists do. Like, if you, if you write an ethnography, you interview people extensively, you get to know their culture, that sort of thing. I love it. And what the, like the, like the Taps people, you know, to me, they were the worst at it. They were rolling in these places. Well, we've done one night's worth of work. We're going to call that science. They don't discuss. You know, it's just what's, it's just what's before them. You know, they're only, they're only considering, they're not considering the scope of the history,

you know, the, not just in terms of the distal causation, but the, what's going to happen next? What could be the next phase of this? In other words, they're not willing to do the hard footwork necessary to actually undertake some sort of scholarly project or valid research project. And it just, you know, I mean, it's a real bastardization of the whole process. You know, like you say in the Septuagint, if you go back and you read it, you get a completely different take. Modern day stuff, it seems like Bigfoot is the most. People see that creature more than any other creature.

And that's what dominates the paranormal channels is Bigfoot sightings. And that's where we started. that's where I started and that's what got me into reading the real version of the Old Testament, so to speak. You were saying earlier, Doug, that the Yeti was connected to the demons. So I was just looking at a couple more of these questions in that catechism. And, you know, this might be something that we could take another episode or two or three or whatever you want to do to look at them because I think people need to know these kinds of origin questions and to know that the Bible does have something to say about it.

So here's two questions. And second, I'd be the eddy one. How might demons be responsible for the vampire phenomena? Right. So here's my answer. Being scattered around the ancient traditions of unrelated cultures throughout the world, vampires are often thought of as tall blood sucking undead, neither living nor dead creatures. The original Nephilim giants were described as cannibals. And other ancient cultures believe that the dead spirits of the giants sucked blood from the veins. Here's one who gets the hairy. monsters. How might demons be responsible for a giant hairy monster legends? Bigfoot, Yeti, and werewolves are giant creatures, often said to make hideous noises who sometimes eat human flesh. And some speculate maybe interdimensional or preternatural. Seer the Horite, who's a dude in Genesis, was apparently a very hairy man and maybe a giant precursor. We could also talk about Esau, the same thing, and Edom. They're very hairy dudes. That's their legacy. Yeah, that's right. While Nebuchadnezzar was clearly given over to some kind of temporary disease by the watchers, perhaps at the besetting of a demon. You know, so the Bible's not silent on this question of the Yeti.

And I mean, maybe the Yeti himself, but the larger idea of it, I don't think it's silent on it at all. I love that. We're going to have to do it. If this is history of the world part one, we're going to have to do a part two. Well, I think Mill Brooks has already beat us too. Did you see that? I mean, that's a total aside, but he's like 90 years old, and they're doing the second. It's only supposed to be one part. Is he seriously doing another show?

Yeah. Yeah, he's almost 100, man. He's not 90. He's closer to 100. How fast is that guy going to get canceled? That's a whole other side, too. They've got to find content. They've got like 500 streaming channels now,

so everyone's got to make us. They've got to find anybody and everyone to make a show. I got a question, though, just a thought and wanted some feedback on this. The idea that these creatures seem to be more prevalent in, maybe the golden age or what we'd we'd look in the past and see do you think that that it's not that these creatures are less prevalent now is that that we've become so de-spiritualized and desupernaturalized in the church and also in our societies that we simply just don't see them like not or as see them as much yeah I think that's part of it but I also think that part of it

is that like I said earlier when when you get a bunch of Christians in a town like they kind to leave. You don't, you just don't see the phenomenon the way that you do in a pagan area. So it's, I think it's probably a little bit of both. I was thinking like, if they're just, they're taking new ways

to camouflage themselves. Think about that in 1985 movie, they live, Routy, Roddy Piper. You guys see it where he wears the glasses? And like they're, they're all hiding in plain sight. It's just no one knows how to see him, right? And he comes to chew bubble gum and, well, and there's the, there's the cultural adaptation.

You know, they're able to do that. But, you know, look out. We're able to manufacture them now. I mean, we've heard things on our show, Doug, that, like, a human being, especially a Christian, puts off, like, a five-foot radius of... Magnetic field. I look at a magnetic field, right? Yeah.

And when they get together, it multiplies. And so you've got to think if there is... Interesting. If there are Christians gathering in one room, and some people say that's why the six-foot thing with the whole pandemic, was a spiritual attack to get to weaken our ability to forward off evil. I don't necessarily have a problem with that. This whole thing, the last year and a half has been nothing but spiritual attack, you ask me.

Absolutely. And then we've had a bunch of other discussions on hybrid beings and these hybrid, you know, there's this hybrid projects, whether it be from the abduction phenomena or actually something we talked to, Doug Riggs about with the Nephilim project, this idea that there is this, program and where there is a hybrid breeding program. So we've talked about hybrids this entire time, right? Whether it be the hybrid chimera or the giants being hybrid beings with angelic, you know,

angelic, fallen angelic fathers and human mothers. What do you guys think about that? Like, you think that there's a hybrid program or a hybrid push by the darkness right now to create these? Avatars for demons, right? Yeah, our bodies are unhuman Because that's what we hear

They're trying to create these creatures That can be inhabited, you know Well, Elamar Zuli believes that the greys are Just biosuits for the demons And they'll be able to disagree with that But that whole principle Is there a concerted effort to create You know, biosuits for

For hybrids or for the For the demonic armies, for the orcs, if you will, you know? You know, and I wrote Giants Eight years ago or whatever probably 10 years ago when I started writing it. I was talking about hybridization and island Dr. Moreau kind of stuff in it. But I was taking it. I don't think that I took seriously enough,

especially like I have the last year and a half, the whole occult aspect of this. Now, probably pretty naturalized view of it. Oh, okay, they're seeing if they can, you know,

stick an animal lung into a human being or something like that. And also there's, there was nefarious. things I knew about. And if the occult is really what I have come to think that it is, and how influential that it is in, again, go back to Adrenachrome and that whole world of Molec and the Baphimit and all this kind of stuff, then why in the world would I think that they're not trying to do what you just said? Makes no sense. We know the Babylon workings and the stuff with the sex, sex rights, sectics in the 60s with

Parsons. That was actually Parsons in Ilron Hubbard. The Hubbard. Okay. Yeah. But both of those guys were students and devotees of Crowley. Do you remember when Katie Perry came out in the halftime show as the writing the big Babylon creature? I mean, those half-time, Super Bowl halftime shows, those are absolute total occult ceremony. Yeah, of course they are. They are, they're putting magic into the minds of everybody who watching it. I mean, that's pure spell stuff. So, yeah, I mean, that just goes right along. I saw that with the weekend when they all had red eyes and they were all. Oh, yeah. That was some dark stuff. After doing the show, I remember, like, I turned it off. It's like, I don't know.

I don't watch that. Yeah. I mean, those, it's interesting, like those, those huge pop stars, and you watch their, their productions and videos, and it's just the symbolism and the imagery is all just, a cult. Yeah, man. We aren't living in 1985 MTV anymore. No, we're not. We don't have awesome,

awesome music videos. So clearly people, in terms of the Nephlin project and people are saying that not only as Doug and Judd is that they're basically breeding the army for the Armaged. They're underground.

Steve Quayle talks about that all the time. Yeah. And what do you guys think about that? I think that's, I don't know how you put a percentage on what do you think it's happening but it sounds like it is i think if they could find a way to do it they would absolutely it seems like they are i mean the ufo phenomenon and the people getting taken has it's been documented and and the more that people film this stuff happening daily yeah it seems

like the the UFO activity is just multiplying or we're just able to film it more but it seems like you're talking about it not being 1985 anymore and i'm thinking it seems like everything's ramping up from a cultic symbolism on TV, UFOs coming down, stories of creatures. We brought on a guy that said, he's been, this guy, Dark Waters told us. He says, look, I've been listening to Crypted Stories my whole life. People are coming on and telling me stuff that they're saying that I've never heard of before. Ever. It's like, I've been hearing stories of Bigfoot and Dog Man forever,

werewolf creatures. But the stuff the kids are telling me that now is just like, it makes you wonder. It's like, is everything just ramping up? I was going to say we're not in 1985, we're in 1984. But that book is totally like, there's no supernatural on that book at all. So that doesn't quite fit either, does it? He had a Delorean. That's for sure.

Yeah, he was friends of Rick Astley, who's now made a big comeback. Never going to give you up. If you send me a video, I will not open it. And get Rickrolled. So I guess one of the final questions, then you think Bigfoot could be a Horite? One of these demonic creatures from the Old Testament, maybe? So my understanding is that, you know, that whole group, the Horites and the Amorites and the Zanzumim, all these guys that you find in Deuteronomy 2, Genesis 14, and so on.

you know, they were, they were in the land of Canaan at one point. And Joshua goes in, kicks them out of there. But they don't go away. They just migrate. And I believe that they migrated north to Turkey for a while. And I believe they were probably kicked out of there. And then they migrated northwest up to modern day France and Germany up in Gaul. Julie Caesar encountered those guys that writes about it. And, at some point in time they migrated up to Britain over to Ireland. That's where all those stories are coming from. There's no, there's reasons why all these places have these crazy stories.

And then at some point in time, my opinion is that they migrated over here. And so this whole early, you know, American culture that everyone's, everyone wants to call the Indian culture, the mound builders that we started off the show with. these guys were not a native Indians man they were they were they were amorites i mean they were giants and they're bringing the very same technology over to here that was in the old world i mean identical technology and so if that's true and when they die they become demonic creatures then yeah why wouldn't bigfoot be over here if those guys were literally over here yeah i think the tomming is really interesting because it's really sort of in the wake of, you know, the Battle of Ella where, you know, David and Goliath square off.

You start to see these diasporas out of the Levant into other places. You know, Doug mentioned, you know, the Germanic and Celtic regions in Europe. I think the Phoenician travel corridor through the Mediterranean probably service some of that. I think probably the same one in the Red Sea probably did the other. you know, from the other direction. But yeah, you know, it's about that time, you know, the beginning of the Iron Age and the old world where you start to see the, like the mother culture in Mesoamerica, the Olmec emerge.

And that's, you know, these things seek to dominate and they set themselves up as the rulers and culture heroes of these places, you know, not just in Mesoamerica, but North America, South America, in Africa, in the Pacific Islands. It's, I mean, it's all over. And, you know, the place names that they both go to and they leave behind often contain little linguistic clues that they've been there. Like America? America being one of them. You know, you mentioned.

People think that America comes from Amerigo Vespucci? I don't think so. I actually think that it's coming from the root of an of an Amarite, which is one of the giant tribes. Another, you know, in your face example is Easter Island. You know, there are a lot of place names that are clearly derivatives of Anakina Beach. There's several places there that have Anok in the name. And the very name of both the indigenous people, the language that they spoke, is called Rapa Nui. Which is very similar to, you know, you have Rapa in there, which is the same as it shows up in the Ugaritic.

and Nui could be a Rapa Nui could be the variant of umi that you find also in the eugenic material and so a lot of this stuff is is not just material or the articulated skeleton that we're all wanting to find but you can find it in language you can find it in the cultural wake of these things well we actually did an episode with Derek Olson of megalith of marvels about Easter Island and all of the oral tradition from that place is that these long-eared giants were the initial inhabitants that built the, you know, built the megaliths there. So, I mean, of course it all fits, right? And I think it's fascinating.

This is almost full circle, guys. Like, in some ways, we talk about the Amarites being in America and them, you know, having these hinges, right place, right? right next to these serpent mounds. And what do we see at the top of the episode talking about what you guys are working on is the wheel of the giants or the wheel of auger and it has a much different names.

But next to what we believe to be, what you guys believe to be and what sounds super plausible in the same locale, a giant serpent mound. And it's on either side of the globe. And I don't think that should be shocking to anyone listens to blurry creatures,

but I think anyone who, you know, who hasn't swum outside of the mainstream historical narrative would have a hard time making those two things congruent in their mind because you're like, why would that? It doesn't make any sense, right? It was Native Americans came across the Lampbridge and they built these mounds.

They put their little, their, their towns on top of like, yeah, no, not really. So Doug, one of the things I like that you said is we're trying to disprove Darwinism as Christians, but we're so brainwashed by it. We don't even realize it, right? Yeah. Absolutely. Are there, are there any chimerical creatures that are, that you think might have survived? Could primates be one?

Are there anything in plain sight that could be remnants of these historical events that we might be looking right past? Like maybe primates are some sort of... Andre the Giant. Yeah, let's go. Do you want a peanut? I'm a little joking at that, but not even half joking. Like Andre the Giant is literally, he comes from a town that is right in the middle of the migration area. of the giants up in Gaul.

There's other stories of giants that are there. This dude was unlike any of their human being I have ever seen. And there's plenty of WWF guys there. W.W.E. the guys. Take 100 beers, right? They're huge, right? Oh, yeah.

But, yeah, I mean, this guy was unbelievable. And the thing that gets it for me is the way he spoke. You listen to him talking. It sounds like he's buzzing. Literally one of the words for the giant. is the Zamzameme and he's the buzzing. Samsonim, by the buzzers. Go listen to him.

He's like a rumbling guy. And I mean, everything about Andre says to me that he had some sort of genetic material that, recessive gene or something. More memes than that. It brought it out. Yeah, I've done his voice in a few memes. So we made him real good in Princess Brad. I literally have to slow my voice down like 30%.

Oh, yeah. Just sound like Andre. That's how I did it. We all do. Even those of us with baritone and base forces have to. Minim masks could not be trusted. Well, it just seems like so many things are hiding in plain sight. Bigfoot is, to me, the best gateway drug to all of this.

Because it's, and it seems to have a lot of those capabilities. People say it could disappear. They can telepathically communicate with you. It has supernatural strength. And they can rip trees out of the ground and stick them back in and upside down. They can snap trees the size. you know, 10 inch diameter trees in half with their hands.

And you hear these stories. They're stealing babies too. Stealing babies. That's the little people. Come on now. The Cherokee little people. But anyway, but it all comes back to Bigfoot in some way on our show.

So it was great to have you guys on and give us a few more clues of what are these creatures? Where do they come from? And who thought that you could get so deep into theology talking about creatures of all the things? We're going to have to get the team back together here because I do want to go through the rest.

I'd love to go to the rest of those questions and address those because I think those are fascinating. So we'll do you want to do that with, you should do that with BlurieCon. We see how we can. Gosh, BlurieCon to be awesome. That's a dream. One of these days, guys. We can't in Uganda. We can do it in Uganda.

We can do it. We're big in Uganda. Hey, we were number one. We were number two in South Korea and South Korea. South Korea. Not North Korea. Yeah. It's getting weird.

In North Korea, King John Oon created Bury Creatures. I've seen the North Korean version of your show. It's majorly edited. Well, Kim Jong-un created it, and he also hosts it, so it's his show. Okay. In North Korea. Yeah, that threw me off quite a bit. When he's done shooting in 18 on 18 holes, he just produces blurry creatures.

What was really strange is that he had imposed his face over Luke's face. I'd never seen him with a beard before. I have better hair. I didn't even know. I didn't know it could grow a beard. He cannot make better means than me. He's got far inferior lettuce, Nate. We're getting closer to BlurryCon, guys.

If you guys keep coming on these shows and dropping all the goods that you drop every time, we're getting there. We're getting there. And we appreciate you guys. You guys are awesome. You guys are wealth and wells of knowledge and also good friends. So we're just happy to have you. thanks for spending your time with us happy to be here

thanks for having this on again