Blurry Creatures - EP: 65 The Star People with Chief Joseph & Dr. Laralyn RiverWind

Episode Date: November 2, 2021

Chief Joseph RiverWind and his wife Dr. Laralyn RiverWind join Blurry Creatures for a deep dive into indigenous North American lore and legends.  The RiverWinds are authors of "What the Old One's Say" and "When the Fires Come", and are renowned for their teaching and speaking at spiritual gatherings, political events, and cultural presentations. They take us back into the prehistory of the Americas to talk about native legends surrounding Bigfoot, Giants, The Star People, and the other blurry creatures that inhabit the oral history of native Americans and indigenous peoples.  guest: https://www.firekeepersinternational.org contact: [e-mail] blurrycreatures.com Socials instagram.com/blurrycreatures facebook.com/blurrycreatures twitter.com/blurrycreatures Music Kyle Monroe: tinytaperoom.com Aaron Green: https://www.instagram.com/aaronkgreen/ Mastering: ironwingstudios.com Outro Song: TimeCop1983: timecop1983.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Luke's so often, people email us, and they have this story. They're out in their woods, and they're looking in the bushes, and they go, what's that? And when you are pouring your dog food and your dog's bowl, that's the last thing you want to say. What is that? What is this stuff coming out of this bag? You know, I don't think a lot of us think about maybe what we feed our dogs, and that's why we partner with rough greens.

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Like Minnesota, the Ojibu people. They have seven pillars, you know, like love, honor, you know, strength, courage. And one of them is truth. Well, the symbol for truth is Bigfoot. We are deep in the blurry creatures saddle this week. We had Tim Albarino for two and a half hour. yesterday. I'm surprised Luke wants to look at me right now, the listeners. After what I drag him through. I just close my eyes. You have a good face radio. That way, just listen to your sweet,

the sweet tones of your voice. Well, Luke, how you feeling, man? After two and a half hours of Tim Alberino, and we got some new members coming in. I mean, it's just, it's been, it's been a blurry couple days. Dude, the blurry tank is getting filled up, Nate. It's full. I love it. The episode with Doug and Judd, and I've gotten like five or six texts today, like, That's my favorite episode yet. Yeah, I got a couple texts too, man. Like this thing is blown my mind. Yeah.

And I'm like, I blacked out the whole time. I don't exactly remember what happened. But we were there. We were there for it. Just went. Full send. Like the boat, jump in the land in the river. It happens, man, because you have so many interviews with so many people.

And now that we've been doing this over a year and a half, it's like it gets to that point where you just... You just fill up your mind. Just fill it all the way up until Nephilim facts are coming out of your ears. Neffulum facts. And we're going to get some more nephilip facts today. We were bringing on Chief Joseph Riverwind, tell them some stories of natives. Giants, and we got Bigfoot, we got skinwalkers, and potentially even chupacabras.

Lots to cover. Yeah. A lot of our members submitted a bunch of questions for this interview. So if you want to become a member and get access to things like that where you can ask questions directly about who's coming on the show, you can become a member of the show, support us, help us make more content. Got a lot of questions today we're going to ask that are directly from you guys. So we appreciate you guys supporting the show and getting some cool perks for hopping on board, right? Right, Lou? We just try to make it as valuable and colorful and all the fools as possible.

Someone said on our messages yesterday, like, I love how you guys keep it light. And I'm like, we do? She's like, the topics are heavy. But you guys have a way of making it fun. I'm like, that's just because we're not very smart. That's all you're saying. No, I just think that like, you and I are here. We try out our stand-up jokes here.

It's soft release. And a lot of them just don't fall. some do you know if we were going to ever to moonlight as comedians this is probably not a job for us we're better at bringing people on that are smarter than us and ask them yeah some questions about the stuff that's too weird in most circumstances did did you think that this podcast luke at this point 65 somewhat episodes in would be where we are i don't know what i thought need yeah i thought we were doing a podcast about bigfoot yet here we are pal this gets weirder and weirder and weirder i mean yeah i just thought you were that guy that you know that singer guy

That was also like Matt Moneymaker from Finding Bigfoot, but little did I know. Little did you know. What road do you be going down? But we appreciate you guys going down these roads with us. A lot of messages coming in lately, Luke, people connecting to it. It's fun how you put out an episode and you're thinking in your mind, you're cataloging some of the best episodes you put out. But yet people are still like, that's my favorite one, the last one you just did. So somehow, we're still finding new things to talk about.

One day I'm going to turn this thing on and you're not going to be there. And you're like, well, Nate isn't here. you got carried off by a bunch of tiny, tiny people. They are. They're going to carry you off through the little layer where they make cookies and shoes and steal socks that we can't find it from our dryers. And you're going to be their king. Red-haired giant of the little people.

Well, we appreciate you guys listening every day, sending us messages that just getting involved in what blurry creatures has become, way more than we thought it would become. Once again, playercrucrucrucrucruits.com slash members, if you want to support the show, Blurry Creatures Podcast at Gmail, if you want to send us a message. and, you know, if you want to get some hair tips, you can email us too, and Luke will give you some straight-up advice

if you got good lettuce or not. He will. Unprofessional. But sincere advice about Hub Hatcher hair, yeah. Yeah. It's a fair. It's fair. That's a strong question.

The history of our earth is so different from what we can imagine. The Smithsonian, that if they found out about a large skeleton somewhere, was to go get it. I'm going to assume at least one person is right, because if one person's right, it bust the paradigm. It all goes back to the fallen chair. And the problem with the modern day church, they have a very truncated view of the supernatural.

This backdrop that's just pregnant with all kinds of meaning associated with this Mount Hermon event. And this guy defects from the kingdom. That's a big deal. Well, welcome to the show, Chief Joseph Riverwin and your wife, Dr. Laurelund Riverwind. You guys are advocates, and I know Chief Joseph, you're a musician and an author of a book. That's what the old ones say.

And we just appreciate you guys coming on. We've been texting for a while. And I'm probably going to butcher this, but you're from the Arawak-Taino heritage. Is that right? Very close. Actually, let me do a traditional introduction. Tagui, Dr. Kasike Naboria Mahura, Guayakeake, Hagwar, Guayake Naborican. Hello, my name is Chief Joseph Riverwind.

I'm a servant chief, peace chief of the Arrawak Taino people. I'm of the Jaguar clan, and from the island of Bodhiken, which is the house of the great and valiant chief. Shio, Ghanikti Lakwine, I'me unalekhwinne, youhua,

Osta jones go, that'ski. Hello, my name is Dr. Larland Riverwind. My Indian name is She walks with Creator Yahweh. And I just want to thank you for having us on. Yeah.

That was a way better intro than I could do. That was the best one we got. Right, Luke? You got to step your game up, pal. Yeah, I do. So we've heard this on our show. What do you think? We've heard that Sasquatch likes the flute, the nativocally.

What do you guys think about Bigfoot? What's not the like? Right. We have stories that are history. We have stories that tell us. lessons that often use animals. And then we have stories that are stories of things that have happened or encounters with different things.

As native people, the supernatural world is very real. To us, we're raised knowing that the supernatural exists, that there's good spirits and bad spirits. We have a healthy respect for that. Now, you brought up Bigfoot. Different tribes have different stories of a being that is a bigfoot, Sasquatch, Sabet, whatever the tribe's name for it is. And in most of the stories, it's not a good entity.

Yes, the flute is a very calming thing to them. It was often used as a defense where it was played to give you time to get away. And at the same time also, the threat of being left if you were a child and you were misbehaving, you would be told, hey, we're going to leave you out here in the woods. and either the hairy man or skunk ape or sabbe. I keep saying sabet, that's a funny name for Bigfoot among the Nishinaabe people up in the north, like Minnesota, the Ojibwe people. They have seven pillars, you know, like love, honor, you know, strength, courage. And one of them is truth.

Well, the symbol for truth is Bigfoot. Yeah, there's an image that goes with each one of the seven pillars. And so they chose for truth or honesty, Fasabe, which is, you know, like the Yeti or the Bigfoot. Wow. That's the Bulari creatures pillar of truth right here, Luke. Right, dude. That's where we start.

It's interesting that we would have a cryptid associated with the truth, Nate. Hey, hey, I like that. And that's kind of what we do on this show. We started with Bigfoot, and then we started bringing on theologians talking about the Nephilim. And it just got weird real fast. And we have a biblical worldview. that's kind of where we filter everything through.

So that's kind of why we laughed about the big Sasquatch being the image of truth, which is, it's so weird because we've been laughing about how Bigfoot can get you into these doors of theology that you never thought he could get you into. And we just, our shows become very heavy in theology, and we never expected it to. Well, you mentioned a biblical worldview. And one of the things that I said, you know, when as native people, we understand the spiritual realm and there's good spirits and bad spirits. And sometimes, you know, not understanding our culture as varied as it is with the hundreds of tribes that we have just in the borders of the U.S.

Sometimes things can get misconstrued stereotypes. But biblically, it says in Hebrews that what are angels, they are ministering spirits sent to the heirs of salvation. So even an angel, a melek, a messenger, is a spirit? The difference is, is it a good one or is it a bad one? And we have stories about spirit messengers that have brought different stories to us from across the Great Waters. For example, the greatest Cherokee story ever told. We shared with them about that one. Oh, yeah.

Well, in the greatest Cherokee story ever told, it takes place 2,000 winters ago. We used to know about things that were across the Great Waters. For example, we knew about the little men who were covered with hair and lived in the tops of the trees. And we used to know about the deer with long necks that could eat from the tops of the trees. And we knew these things because the little people who wore white would fly across the water. And they would come and tell stories to one medicine person. and that medicine man would come and tell the stories to the people, to the rest of the village. And one day, the little people who wore white came flying across the water,

and they met with the medicine man of the village. Everybody in the village had seen a bright star in the east and wondered at it. And the little people who wore white told the medicine people that today was a very special day. and that on this day, the greatest holy man to ever walk the earth was born. And so the people celebrated and through a great feast. And periodically, the little people who wore white would come back and tell us stories about what he was doing, about how he touched a blind man and he could see and how the, the people could walk again who couldn't walk before.

So the Cherokee people grew to love this man. One day the sky grew dark and the storm was terrible and the earth shook. And the little people who wore white came flying across the water. And on that day, instead of just meeting with the little people, they met with the entire village. And they were crying and crying and saying that the holiest man to ever walk the earth, Earth had been killed in a cruel way. And we all mourned.

And so as the tears of the little people fell to the earth, they turned into stone, stones that are shaped as crosses. And you can find these cross-shaped stones all through the Tallulah Falls area where it happened. It's in North Georgia. It's where the story took place. And that's what the old ones say. Wow. That's amazing. That's what the old ones say.

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That's mintmobile.com slash blurry. Up front payment of $45 for a three-month, five-gigabyte plan required, equivalent to $15 a month. New customer offer for first three months only, then full-price plan options available, taxes and fees extra. See MintMobile for details. Yeah. Is that the Great Morning Star story?

Is that what that's called? No, that's actually the look. That's a Lakota story. the one that she just told was recorded by the LOSIA family, Eastern Ban Cherokee family. And the going backs. And now these stories predate missionary contact. And I think it's very important to note that, you know, because it's easy to say, oh, well, after, you know, two or three hundred years of contact, you're going to get stories, you're going to have, you know, mission, missionaries that came and et cetera, et cetera.

But the native storytelling tradition, these stories are told, word for word and you're not allowed to take a word out of the story, you can't add a word to it. So the integrity of the story remains. And these stories, it's key to know that these were pre-missionary contact. And some people say, well, you know, why would the creator, why would the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob show himself to the native people or to a pagan people or to a heathen people? But scripture says that all who call upon my name, right, he's going to answer. and he's not going to give us a different story

than what he gave somebody else. Not only that, but we can trace our stories. Some of the tribes have stories of the Sky Tower and how we were one tribe of people and we tried to build a Sky Tower to reach the Creator. And he became angry and destroyed the Sky Tower and split the tribes apart, split the people apart in our languages. And all this sounds familiar, doesn't it?

So we have stories of the Tower of Babel. And from there, we retained, each culture, I believe retained aspects of a traditional ancestral memory from that time. I believe as native people, one of the things that we've carried forward is in our songs, the creator's name. And you hear it. You hear the name Yahweh. You hear the name Yah in our songs, which just recently we were in a place where there was many Orthodox Jewish people, and we were sharing these songs. We're just sharing songs back and forth.

It was almost like a religious orthodox Native American rap battle. And it's so interesting because in our ways, when you have song bringers, you know, one person brings a song and the other person brings a song. So it was going back and forth, back and forth. And of course, we told them, we said, we understand that you don't speak the most high's name. And out of respect, you know, we won't do that. And he was like, well, no, it's okay. because this is your people's way.

And after we sing several of these songs, it was so interesting. What was the rabbi's exact words? He said, I have to admit, I'm jealous because you get to sing or say his name, and I can't. And the scripture says we're to drive the Jewish people to jealousy. And what the church has done is, you know, or provoke them to jealousy. What the church has done is just provoke them with crusades and inquisitions and such. And so there's these traces of our history, of our oral history, of our oral tradition that goes back to ancient times. The Choctaw, for example, their name for the

creator is Abba. And they have a story that Abba came to a man named Nua and told them to build a large canoe and put two of every animal in these canoes. And actually the details of the story go even beyond that, because we know it's not just two animals. There was also a sacrificial animals that were put in there. But even down to the dove that came with a branch in his mouth, almost, almost identical stories. So, unfortunately, what we have seen and witnessed in the past several years even is a rewriting of our traditional history. In serpent mound, for example, there is a, for the longest time, all the Shawnee people would say, well, no, we didn't build this, we didn't build this mound. This was built by the giant tribes that were here.

This was here when we already got to this land. And that was the official stance. And it still is to the traditionalist because that is what the stories that have been passed down for generations have spoken. But until recently, I think it was this year, the park system put a sign up there. And it completely just negates that entire story. You know, saying, oh, well, the Shawnee Indians, you know, using shoulder blades of a deer for digging the dirt and blah, blah, blah. blah, built the mound. So it's almost like it doesn't matter to the agenda that is in this education system in this country that we've preserved these stories. If it doesn't fit what they want to

portray, they're just changing it. And so this is even more so why it's so important that we keep and retain these stories and share them, which for the longest time our elders wouldn't, this wouldn't be shared outside of ceremonial grounds or stomp dance grounds. But we're living in a time now when the fires come. And this is what our elders call it when talking about the future and end times. Well, that's a good segue what you guys are talking about, because it sounds like indigenous people through some sort of spiritual revelation we're learning about.

I love that, though, because I think that's one of the big questions, right? I mean, I think you answered some of what people talk about. like if Jesus says that I desire they're all coming to me and none should perish and you talk about it and how did the gospel reach the four corners of the earth then like what are people that don't get to hear about it right and then you have these revelations

like Nate you're just saying that like where you have we would assume to be angelic beings messengers that's what an angel is means messenger right bringing the good news that's awesome yeah and it go ahead Nate I don't mean to cut you off but I want to say that like yeah I think I always say what about the tribes

in Africa right they haven't heard anything And you're like, maybe they have. God is an omniscient God that we serve isn't constrained by geography. It's or time or space, you know what? But I think even when they're coming over here, they're seeing these giants that are building these things. And they have to understand, have some context of, okay, who are these giants and where do they come from? So if they're already privy to some parts of the story, can we talk about that? Obviously, the giants, it sounds like you were saying the giants were here first.

The natives kind of came in after that. And they've been building things here for a long time. And that's kind of the blurry creatures that we talk about about on our show is the ancient giants themselves. And how do they get here? How do they get out of the, how do they move out of the Holy Lands? How big were they? What are the stories surrounding them? And were they a part of some of these chimerical creatures that we talk about on our show of other creatures?

So we kind of talk, we lived there a lot. We talk about the Nephilim. We talk about the ancient giants. So it would be fascinating to talk to us a little bit about indigenous Americans and the stories of the giants and how what they thought about them. and maybe interactions and other things. Yeah, because I would say the one thing, too, to give you just some context for where we've been, like we have interviewed people,

Fritz Zimmerman, who spent years chronically in all of the separate amounts. So when you bring that up, it's like you were right in our wheelhouse in a sense of like, there's a narrative out there. And for whatever this academic, you know, cohesive narrative that they're pushing,

there isn't space for anything that has a biblical context. That's what it would seem. And so I just want to, affirm that we're like we're tracking. That's like the fact you're saying they're putting up signs that don't back up the oral tradition, oral history of indigenous Native Americans isn't surprising. I've got to tell you guys that my wife is,

she's a biologist. She's a scientist by education. And she'll tell you, I dragged her kicking and screaming into this whole like nephalum, giants, big foot. You know, and even though she knows her people's stories,

she's just like, ah! Well, you know, there are stories that are just like movies. There are some that are documentaries and there are some that are fiction. There are some that are science fiction. But the skeletal remains are inconvenient truths that you just can't ignore. Although they're trying to sweep them under the rug, they're hiding them in the basement. and we've even heard reports that they're dumping skeletal remains, big bins in the ocean

in the Atlantic, which is really strange. Not surprising either. It just isn't. But it goes against the narrative that they're pushing that we are all products of evolution. And so when you are trying to convince people that, you know, people are getting taller in an evolutionary process over time, which in some ways is true. The father did make us so that our DNA can adapt. But that is completely different than looking at enormous giants that are so much larger

that with different skeletal features like the cranium being, you know, having a different a number of plates than the human skull does. These are things that as a scientist, I can't dismiss. It may not fit what I would like to believe, but if you are a true scientist, you take the facts and you don't ignore them. And you don't just shove them in a basement and make up your own narrative. And in a lot of our stories, the majority of them, the giant tribes were not good.

They weren't beneficial or benevolent. They weren't helpful. I mean, there's a few, I think maybe like, I know of one story where there was a giant that helped the tribe. Are you talking about the one in Ireland where he moved the rocks from the, from the, oh, you know what? So that wasn't even here. That's right. Yeah, that's Ireland.

So, okay, so strike that one from the native. record. That's fine. So they're all bad. They're all bad. Pretty much. Hey, you can talk about it. I think I'm from there, somewhere around there.

So my people are from there. So that's, uh, I'm just having to be on the tall side. Tall Irish. The Anon, right? Yeah. I don't know if I'm pronouncing that right. Tuatha.

Da Anon. A really good example is when, when I was going to Mercer University and making Georgia, that's where I met Laurel and she was going to medical school there. There is a place called Okomoggi. It's a federal national park. Beautiful, beautiful place. During the Civil War, they were cutting a railroad.

And as they were cutting the railroad, they actually dug into a funeral mound and discovered three skeletons. Now, they took the three skeletons. Since then, it's now a national park. And we remember speaking to an elder at Okmoggi. It's one of the best preserved sites in the southeast. It has a great temple. mound, 40 foot tall, lesser temple mound, funeral mound, the trading area, the ball field, the council chamber, very well preserved. So we were at a, there's an annual gathering there

called the Okmoggi Indian celebration. And it was maybe about 20 years ago, maybe 18 years ago. And many Muskogee Creek people come back because this was traditional Muskogee Creek land. And we were speaking with one of the elders who relayed a story to us. He told us that when he was a kid, he remembered coming to visit on one of these annual pilgrimages of sorts for them, because this was their capital. At one time, there was around 40,000 Native people that lived here there in Macon, in Okmogi. And he remembered as a child going into the museum, and they had the three giant skeletons on display. Wow. And then it was just a matter of time. The Native American grave and repatriation act was passed. Now, Nagra is designed to protect Native American sites

from looting, excavating, but I can't help but think that there's also a little insiduous thing going on because if you pass that law, then these things can't be touched. They can't be looked at. They can't, then they have to be hidden or put away. And that's exactly what the tribe did. They said, will you please take these skeletal remains off of display? There's something else I think is interesting about what they found when they cut through that mound. And that was that buried in the same mound with the giants were two skeletons. Oh yeah. Yeah.

Had to fill in wrapped on them, which are the boxes that are wrapped onto the hand and the forehead of Jewish people for prayer. That was actually at a mound in the Oky-Fanokey swamp. Was it? Oh, my bad. Yeah, the ones that were at Okmoggi were three giant skeletons, average height about seven feet, seven to seven and a half feet tall. In Florida, you had several giant tribes chronicled by the Spaniards. Now, I've got to add this, when I was taking anthropology and archaeology classes,

and I brought this subject up with my archaeology professor. And the immediate response was, you're talking about Denisova. on. Oh, that's, that's a dentist. And it's like, no, I'm not talking about Denisov. And I'm talking about giants. And the response that I got for, you know, why these skeletal remains were seven foot eight or eight foot tall or such and such, get this, was, people didn't know how to measure

back then. Yeah, we can measure. We can measure now. I mean, yeah. Well, and we're only talking to 1800s. Yeah. But they could build mathematically perfect mounds, but they can't measure. Right.

Or mathematically perfect pyramids. Or do advanced calculus. Not even just that, but just, I mean, by 1800s, I mean, New York is already built. You know, there's cities being built all without mathematics. Right. Because nobody knows how to measure. So it was, it was just, it was, it was, it was really insane. It's going to be a truth.

Yeah. Right. In Florida, there's many tribes that were giant tribes. The Colusa is a good example. Very sadistic. A lot of the traits of these giant tribes, very sadistic, very cruel. They were sexually sadistic. They would go on raids of villages.

Some of the giants, for example, the Iroquois called them the stone skins, because their skin was so hard to penetrate with lances or arrows. And in Florida itself, these giant tribes, the Spanish chronicled. I mean, so many chronicles that the Spanish made of their first encounters with them. And we were actually at the Nephilim conference in Serpent Mountain several years ago with L.A. Marzuli and Russ Dizdar, who unfortunately passed away. And we were there and did this, did a teaching, you know, pretty in depth showing the Spanish records and sources of what they had in. encountered and even capturing, you know, some of these giants and some of the giant chiefs of the tribes. And one of their, one of the things that they recorded was that the arrows that

they would shoot, not only did they shoot with absolute precision, they could shoot them from over 100 yards away, but they would penetrate an oak tree. Half the arrow would, half the shaft would be sticking out. So I put it out there because I'm not good with mathematics. And I said, if there's anybody here who's a professional archer that can do the calculations and tell me how much bow strength would you need in order for an arrow to penetrate in the oak tree. And there was a guy there who was actually a sponsored archer.

He did the calculations and he said it would take a bow with a thousand pound pull. A bow with a thousand pounds. Picture this. Me, Rees Witherspoon in London, ordering fish and chips. so often, they might start wrapping me in paper. I'm traveling with my Wells Fargo Autograph Journey card, so I earn rewards wherever I book travel.

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now a typical archer may use a 75-pound bow, maybe even more. But back in the old days, medieval time period, there were archers that had enormous bow pulls up to 400 pounds. But that's the reason why they could shoot them so far. My son is an archer and a history buff, and he's done all kind of research into this. People used to be able to pull much stronger bows than what you typically see pulled now. But 400 is a far cry from a thousand pound pull. And it's a far cry from 75 pound bow. I mean, this is, that's crazy.

Well, we've seen some of those arrowheads being posted on our channels and they look giant. Do you guys find either like the weaponry and other remains of weapons like to support these stories? Absolutely. We actually have in our possession. we call it the Nephilim lance. At that same conference there was a gentleman that came and he was on a reservation up in Michigan.

Wow. Everybody okay? Yeah. Something just felt things decided to fly off of our wall. Really? Oh, man. Not just off the wall. We have things hanging on the wall

and then we have a little shelf and everything just decided to come off of it. Okay. We've had everything. Every time it's, hey, start talking. Yeah, seriously. Send you away. The cats are like, what?

No. Every time we talk about Nephulam stuff, Luke, something weird always happens. We always have just bizarreo electronic issues. I mean, it's funny. You talk about L.A. When we had L.A. on the show, the first time, Nate, it was like, and Heiser as well, Dr. Michael Heiser. We had all this unexplainable stuff, like, where I'm like,

dude, I have a gig connection at my house. I host this on my thing. We don't have any, and we would have these crazy problems. Or just your audio would be like buzzing the whole time. Just some weird stuff. We've heard and seen a lot of this. Just the Holy Spirit, man. There's the Holy Spirit allowed here.

Yeah, that's right. Or it's just a dark spirit's trying to keep you from talking about the truth, right? So tell us about this Nephlin, Lance, though. And that's exactly it, man, because the shelf, everything that came crashing down, that's what has our Wi-Fi booster on it. Because without the Wi-Fi booster, we have no Wi-Fi on here. We live really remote. So, anyways, I just wanted to set it back up.

So at this conference, this man came, and he said, I have something, I'm going on the mission field of Africa, and I felt that I need to give this to you. And so he brings this big, huge lance head out, lays it down on the table, and me and Elie Marzuli and this gentleman are looking at it. And they're all saying, oh, that's a really interesting-looking sword. I wonder, you know, does somebody leave a sword there? And I'm looking at it. And it's, I shaped identical to what you would put up the end of a war lance. It didn't have the hilt part that you would insert into a sword.

It was nothing like that. And I looked at him, I said, guys, this is, this is a gigantic warlance head. Normally a typical war lance, you might have a, I don't know, six, eight inch good flint-napped blade at the end. But this is made of metal. And it weighs 26 pounds. Now, it absolutely matches the stories of the native people where these giants would have war lances, an eight-foot shaft with this lance head at the tip. And it was big enough to spear two to three warriors at once when the giants were fighting against the native people.

And so, L.A. said, hey, let's send this off for some analysis. He's like, I'll pay the bill and let's find out how old this is and where it's from. So we got the results back, and it's pretty shocking. Now, this was found in Upper Michigan in a very remote area. The guy was actually camping, just like totally off-grid camping way out there with his family. So it wasn't like a campground or a place where a lot of people go or somebody just left something. And the analysis came back that the metal was from the Middle East. Wow.

Not only the Middle East from the area of Judea and Turkey. And so, and then, and the guy said, give me some more time. And we're going to do some carbon dating on it or some dating on it and find out approximately how old this lance is. And we got the results back on that. And they said it's approximately two to 2,500 year old. And it was in Michigan. And it was in Michigan. Let's go.

This is my theory. My theory is that as the people of Israel were going into the promised land and they're fighting these giant tribes. Now, the Philistines, they were master seafarers. I believe that some obviously fought, died, and others got on boats and bugged out. And several of them ended up here because we have cave art of Phoenician-looking ships and as well as these giant stories of these beings coming. So the timetable is really close on that. So I think that there was multiple waves of immigrations of these giants. And in some stories, the giants were already here, as some tribes were moving into different areas.

This is where you get the stories of the red-haired giants, double rows of teeth, six fingers on the hands, which is why in many tribes you would put your hand up and say how. you know, because from a distance, you could tell if your person had six fingers or not. And that was your way of saying, hey, I'm not a giant. You know, I'm a normal guy. I'm not one of these mixed things because we have the same story. And the Genesis 6 Chronicles, except that we call them the star people that fell from the heavens and they took our women. And oftentimes these women died in the childbirth and birthing these giant babies.

and that is just like what Genesis 6 tells us. So we do have a physical evidence artifact that corroborates our indigenous stories. And I'll send you a link. I have a blog link to the article about that on our website. That's fascinating. I mean, because we know that also there's ancient copper mines in the Great Lakes areas in Michigan as well that are dating, that date back that far. And then, you know, academia doesn't really want to talk about that.

but that seems to also fit in this timeline. And we brought on a guy, we brought on a guy that from, you know, Minnesota right near there who had a serpent mount on his property. And they found some relics of from the hoilands as well. So they came back and said, you can't dig anymore, covered this back up.

And he had accidentally, he didn't do it on purpose. He had backed into it like clearing out a, what he thought was a gravel area in some backfill getting for some backfill. And he ends up in, in the mound with a giant skeleton. and they tell them, don't look at this, don't look at this, cover this up. This is, you'll send you to prison in Minnesota.

We have another similar story to that. We in L.A. went to the White Earth Reservation where I think so. I think he said that that's the first place where giant remains were found in the white earth area, although this wasn't on the reservation itself. It used to be part of the reservation territory, but it was a gentleman's farm who was digging. And he actually plowed into this mound and they found giant skeleton with two sacrificed girls at his feet. The two girls were normal, you know, human size. The skeletal remain was not. I can't remember it was seven or eight foot tall. But I have a copy. I think it was,

what was that TV show? Ancient archaeology or the guy with the crazy hair. Ancient aliens. Yeah, ancient aliens. They did a program on this and they actually went out there, took a film crew, And the director or the head of archaeology for the state of Minnesota came on record and said, well, you know, this was just a local tribal burial, blah, blah, blah, blah, you know, this and that. And this was normal, you know, nothing to see here, you know, just keep moving along type of thing. But I have a copy of the original archaeological report signed by him where five or six times he says, this is from no known tribe in this region. These are the measurements of the skeletal remains.

I have a copy of that. And so, again, it's that agenda of, you know, we need to take this. We need to cover it up because this actually validates the biblical narrative of Genesis 6. It doesn't fit the academic agenda that's being pushed out there, Darwinism, evolution, and all these things. I mean, it sounds like there are a lot of them here, too, because like guys like Fritz Zimmerman say, there's 700-something mounds that he's been to. So you have to think some of these mounds, it took them a long time to build.

So there must have been multiple tribes over here and multiple areas building for quite a while. And obviously the sacred geometry that they knew, how many giants do you think were over here and how big do you think that these things got? Were there wars between the natives and the giants that were documented? Yes, there were definitely were wars,

but usually what I hear more of the stories were more of an individualized thing. Because although there were giant tribes, especially down in Florida, a lot of what you hear is more solitary living from these giants. And so like the Calusa and the Tecesta, all of those that he was talking about were so sadistic that they had pedophilia issues. There were cannibals. But a lot of times you see, you hear more of like one here and there in the southeast. I think before before you go past a collusion that's a test, I think it's important that you share with their listeners the spiritual implications.

Yeah. So I realized that, you know, you hear a lot of child abductions. It used to be there was a lot in Florida. Now it seems like it's spread all over the place. You hear a lot of pest. Ophelia there, but now you hear it's more everywhere. But when I was looking into Florida, I realized that the spiritual environment of Florida is, it's very sick. You know, I used to live in Florida. The tribes in Florida, many of those that were giants, had those issues of sexual deviations, you know, sexually deviant behavior.

And I believe that there's a spiritual stronghold left over from what happened there years before, before the colonists were there. And that that territory is still under their influence. And going back to your question about, you know, how many of them were there, I believe that as time went on, we also have stories about a flood and in a flood being a judgment from the creator for destroying many of these giant tribes.

But there were still giants that remained afterwards. So I think that there was a definite winnowing out to the point where, for example, the Maya and the Inca, the Aztecs, they had at their peak of civilization, these giants were their leaders. Matter of fact, even the Maya and the Inca stories talk about that there was star beans, you know, these falling spirits that fell from the heavens, that established their civilizations and taught them the mathematics,

the geometry, the constellations and all these things. I think over time, the reason why the giants became isolated stories of just one here or a few there is because by this time, them as a civilization were pretty much almost wiped out to the point that by the 16th century, 17th century, the ones that remained were the ones that were in leadership. That's why, for example, the Spanish Chronicles always described the giants as being the ones that were the leaders, the casica, the chiefs. It wasn't all of the people.

By that time, these giant leaders had subjugated the people. So the people were subject to them, were servants, were slaves. and you find that in a lot of the stories. Then you've got these remnant giants in different places like Isti Papa. Well, when we also studied biology, you would learn that the larger the animal is, the more space that they need territory-wise. So it's the same with eagles. It's the same with large cats, like the mountain lions and the panthers.

The larger the animal is, the more territory it needs to be able to, live off of it. So it makes sense. We posted in our members group that you guys were coming on with us. And based on your expertise, do you believe that like that there was multiple incursions that happened after the Tower of Babel or is your tradition remembering the pre-flood stuff when we talk about the star people? And then additionally, do you believe that the giants that we do know we're here? Do you believe that the occult practice that we know in the sadism and the cannibalism and the complete depravity we know to be the characteristics of the giants.

Do you think that influenced what we, when we talk about human sacrifices in Mesoamerica and then the practice of witchcraft and magic in indigenous and native peoples on this side of the globe? So one of the main, one of the main objects or purposes of the sacrifices that took place. And I'm glad you brought that up because, you know, even culturally now, Native America is, really turning into a different mindset culturally, even traditionally. For example, like, even just, I don't want to use political terms, but this makes it a little easier to understand. Many traditional Native American values are more conservative than Democrat. And we're seeing

the flip of that is happening now. So there's a change that's taking place. And I say that because life was very sacred to our people. I mean, you don't even kill them. mouse, you know, unless you have to, you know, for whatever reason, you know, life is sacred. So of that being said, there's this agenda, this narrative that, oh, everything here was just, you know, Disney's Pocahontas paradise. And the white man came and messed everything up. Oh, that's a bunch of Buffalo Bowl. Because we, we killed each other. We killed each other for territory. We took each other's women's. We enslaved one another, the Maya, the Aztecs, for example, thousands upon thousands upon thousands of sacrifices.

Typically that were aligned during stellar events, whether there were lunar eclipses or solar eclipses, and in some of the beliefs, they thought that the more bloodshed that they could shed, then that would hasten the return of the feathered serpent of Kiztokat. Now, this is almost identical to an Islam, where they believe that the more blood is spilled, then it'll hasten the quickening of their Messiah. I want to clarify something that he said, it's not typical in most native tribes that human sacrifice occurred.

Yeah, it wasn't typical. So what he's talking about is that Mesoamerican tribal tradition with the Aztecs. But in North America, you did not see human sacrifice very often, although you did see it with giants. There are the Phoenician sacrificial altars with the blood grooves that have been found in various places. But when you're talking about giants, a lot of the oral tradition among native people have to do more with the cannibalistic incidences. And that's what the typical oral tradition is.

And when we talk about the star people, those stories are pre-flood stories. And then a lot of the other stories are post-examination. post-flood stories. And it's interesting how the pre-flood stories, lots of giants, they're everywhere, post-flood, then all of a sudden it's just pockets here and there. The Allegheny Mountains up in the northeast, Allegheny is actually the name of the giant tribe that used to dominate that landscape there, that area, territory. And they actually, the Huron and the Mohawk have a story where they actually banded together

to fight against these giants, against the Allegheny to wipe them. out. That's documented in their Wampum belts and their Wampum stories and also in their traditional storytelling. So you asked the question about if we believe there were multiple incursions. This is something Joseph and I were just talking about a couple of days ago. And I'm not really sure if he has settled on something. But as for me, I believe that there have been multiple incursions. And I believe that angels fall. on a small individual basis, on an ongoing basis. I mean, it's just like human beings.

They're given free will. And even human beings, after we come into knowledge of Yeshua, sometimes people still fall. Angels, I think, are given that same choice. So why would we think that it would only happen once? I have seen videos of nightwatch cameras in mental health institutions. It's obvious that a person is being sexually molested in their beds. And you cannot see what's going on.

I mean, you can't see a person. You can just see a person who's being the victim, but not the one doing it. And, you know, why should I not believe that. what's occurring in that room right there is the same thing that occurred back in Genesis 6. Except today we call it an incubus and a succubus. Or an abduction, right? We talk about the abduction phenomenon of people being abducted by extraterrestrials, and that becomes the, at least the explanation.

We've talked about that a lot on our show, and I actually tend to agree with you that there might have been multiple incursions because that seems to be where my mind is going these days because you see these how it happens in certain times and in different locations and it just some of the more complex theories of DNA being dormant and other things I don't know this seem harder to believe but I think we talked about this with Tim Alberino Luke that do the angels continue to fall do they continue to make mistakes is this an ongoing thing it's not just something to happen in Genesis 6 and then suddenly stops it wouldn't make sense if you think about it in practical terms, like they're ongoing. I mean, he's very advanced in his ideas. He thinks UFOs,

they're flying these UFOs and they're constantly in war with each other. And it would make sense that they would be tricked to the dark side at any given point. Why just in biblical times? Yeah. And I think Laurelund made a great point. In practical terms, right? Like, we, people can come to the gospel and then fall away. I mean, obviously, the angelic race, or as Tim would call it, the elder race, they have the advantage of being in the presence of God. That part was far harder for, for me to wrap my head around. falling away from that, but we know what happened. We know that a third of heaven fell at one point or another.

But do we know if all angels get to actually see creator? I guess we don't know that. I mean, have to brush up on Enoch. We know that there's a pattern of the temple in heaven that was created here on the earth. So we know that there's a temple there and only certain people could go into the Holy of holy's only the high priest and then only certain people could go into the holy place so it could be that that pattern was created on earth from the one in heaven and it may be that not all the angels get to see his face that makes sense we talked about this last night with tim one thing we one thing

we get into is other creatures obviously skin walkers are part of native stories warwolf creatures what do you think about some of these other demonic creatures that are supposedly talked about Well, let me see if I can tell you of a couple that I don't know, maybe you've heard of them, maybe you haven't. You probably have heard of the euktina, the serpent, right? I want to answer one of these questions that he said before, and that was about the size of the giants. And that in our traditional stories, they typically don't get bigger than eight or nine feet. You know, I know that Enoch has different sizes of them, but in our stories, I haven't heard of like gigantic, gigantic. giant statured.

But sorry to interrupt you. So back to Okina. Yeah. That's awesome. That's right in line with everything else we hear about post-flood, right? They're a little smaller. So you're familiar with Uctina? No.

The large serpent. There's a snake that is attributed with magical powers. And it's called Uptina. And it's as big as the trunk of a tree. It's very big. big around. Someone did send us a video of one of these recently. It was like they were filming a hole in the ground.

And then you could see this giant snake like it was going through a hole in the ground. And it looked like the size of a trunk of a tree. I don't know. That stuff's so doctored these. Maybe not being up Tina. It might be an an anaconda. You know, it was just way bigger, way bigger. Wasn't a movie with Ice Cube and Jennifer Lerfaz?

No, no, it was not a movie. We get those videos all the time. We never know if they're doctored or fake and we just, we wonder. Yeah. But this was this giant snake and it looked like three or four times the size of a giant anaconda. It sounds like my worst nightmare. Right. But this is, this has special scales on the snake.

It has scales that are like shiny and shimmery, like glittery almost, and they have a lot of different colors in them. And the story of Uptina says that. It mesmerizes a man. And actually, even though it's so dangerous, the people will come running toward it instead of running away from it. It's impossible to kill one unless you hit it, the seventh spot from the head, which is interesting because there was a movie called Dreamkeeper who did. I think they spun it from a Lakota version of the water, the serpent, which is a water serpent. but in ours it's not a water serpent. But it has this specific crystal on it.

And that crystal is what all of the hunters used to want to get because the crystal would grant you wishes. And there would be a streak, a red streak through the crystal. And you would have to feed, it would require a blood sacrifice to feed the crystal. And some stories say every day, but that it could go up to once a week or you could tell the crystal to tell that that you wouldn't need it because what it did was it would grant you wishes it would it would give you success in hunting you would be able to do rain dances you would be able to whoever you wanted to fall in love

with you, would fall in love with you. And yeah, it was basically it gave you all kinds of power. And so there were people who used to seek this. And if you didn't feed it blood, then it said that the crystal would turn into, would transform into fire and come looking for blood. Interesting.

What about other Skinwalker creatures or, or werewolf creatures. So I don't typically say the name because it's considered to be a summoning. Ah. But you said it. So I say shapeshifters. But there's a taboo against using that word that you used. Oops. Nobody told me.

I'd heard that before, Nate. I was letting you walk into that. My shelves haven't fallen down yet. So. So right. So we just use the term shapeshifters. But, you know, scripture deals with summoning. It's really interesting.

When it says we call upon the name of Yahweh, words are powerful. And so. Tell them the name of the creator and Cherokee. Yohewa. When you are talking about these shapeshifters, there's a price that each one of them have paid. to get there. And that price is for them, there are many different steps they have to go through, but the last step is that they have to sacrifice. They have to kill the person who they love the most. That's what seals and releases the power to be able to shape shift. And when they shape,

shift, it's not always a complete change. There's always some elements of human beings. mean in that. So, for example, you might see one and it has human eyes or I actually came across one and encountered one and I have four other witnesses that were in the car with me. And it was a deer, quote unquote, but the snout hadn't completely grown out. The eyes were very human and the legs were unusually long. And it locked eyes with me as I drove past it. And we knew we were all coming back from a pow-w. We all knew exactly what it was. And we called the father of one of the girls that was in the car with us, who was a holy man. He did ceremony. And I mean, I was mad. I was so angry that this thing crossed my path because we hadn't called it. We hadn't said anything.

And that's exactly what her father said. He goes, you just cross past with it. But I'll get every ceremony ready. So when you get here, we'll just break all ties and anything to make sure that. But it didn't just cross your path. It chased your car. No. Right? Oh, I was thinking of a different story? Yeah, you're thinking of a different shapeshifter story.

Yeah. Okay. This was a buddy of mine when I was in the Army, and he was a Navajo man. These shapeshifter stories come from the Southwest. And biblically, looking at this biblically, what we believe is that when Yeshua said, you cast out a demonic demon, where does it go to the dry places, to the deserts? And when you look at the scope of, of Native America, just in the borders of the U.S.

The East Coast tribes monotheistic believe in one God. You get out to the desert tribes and they're polytheistic, thousands of gods, pantheons of gods. So these demonic spirits are attracted to these dry areas. Well, when they're banished, that's where they end up. And so my friend who was not, he was not a storyteller and he was just a straight shooter every time. and he was going back home to his reservation to visit his family, and he saw this guy hitchhiking on the side of the road. So he starts to pull over to pick the guy up,

and he realizes there's something up with this guy. Something's just weird. He got this really weird feeling, and he decided not to stop. So he just keeps going, and he looks at his rearview mirror, and this man is running to catch up to his truck. And so my friends say, that he forwarded it. He just put the pedal to the metal,

and this guy comes running up, keeping pace with the truck, banging on the passenger window to let him in. And he knew that if he could get to the border of the reservation, that he would be okay. And so he's flying, he gets to the border of the reservation. As he crosses the border, the guy just, he watched him shape-shift into a coyote.

So he saw the whole transformation take place. He goes immediately to his family, to his grandfather, and he says, look, I came across one of these things. This is what happened, et cetera, et cetera. His grandfather, his father, his uncles, they went immediately, got their rifles and went on the hunt for him. They go to hunt this thing down, they shoot a coyote in the shoulder, but they weren't able to catch it. So the next morning, they went to the Indian Health Services Hospital and just waited. And sure enough, here comes this guy who they had suspected already within the tribe that this guy was in. into these bad, bad medicine ways.

And here comes this guy with his arm all bandaged up. So his grandfather and the men of the family grabbed the guy. He never made it into the hospital, and he was never heard from again. That gave me the chills, guys. Like, that's, bro, that is. This is one of the reasons why there are a lot of murders out in Navajo country. Yeah, it's very real. You know, it's interesting how we, how, how,

society gets dumbed down to where you'll go to a horror film to see movies about this stuff and think, well, that's just fantasy. It's just Hollywood. But it's very real. And people, especially who are believers, there was a Barnett study that was done several years ago that said that it was approximately 65% of Christians in America don't believe that demons and angels exist. So if you don't believe this is supernatural, I mean, the whole Bible is supernatural. Not just in his writing, but even in the stories, I mean, a talking donkey, that sounds like something from a native story. You know, a gold coin in a fish's mouth. I mean, there's supernatural stories all throughout scripture.

If you want to see proof of the supernatural, go to a third world country. Because when you go into a third world country, or I guess they like to call them developing nations now, but the spirit world is very much close. or the veil is thinner. It's on the reservations that way too. There is a strategy of trickster, I believe, that is to, for Americans, keep their focus on materialism, keep their focus on day-to-day activities. Let's just ignore that there is a spirit world. Maybe if the spirit world isn't seen and right in front of you, you can convince yourself

that it doesn't exist. But when you're in another nation, when you're in an impoverished place, when you're in some of these other countries, it's right out there on front street. It's right in your face. It's bold. And a perfect example, too, is only in America, you go out and step outside of America. For example, you go to Peru, South America, Central America. They have museums with giant skeletons on display. And it's like, this is the history.

This is fact. This is what it is. But here is a completely different story. And the shapeshifters are very real. They're still active. Definitely something that like she said, we don't, we don't ever, we don't say their name. That's what we were taught. It's just the same as summoning them. Hey, I bet you do you have listeners out there who sometimes may have a little fear factor going on when they hear stuff like this. My sister-in-law calls it, fear porn where, you know, you're addicted to it. It's the scary stuff. But one of the things that Joseph and I feel is important to do biblically, scripture talks about placing a certain scripture on your doors and on your gates. And that scripture is called the shaman.

And Joseph will look up the address specifically. It's in two different places. Well, it's also in the New Testament when the Pharisees ask Yeshua, what is the greatest commandment? And what does he say? He says, Shama Israel, Yahweh, Allah, Allah, He cahad. He recites the Shama, hear of Israel. The Lord our God, Lord is one. He says the second half of it, you should love the Lord your God with all your heart and all your soul and all your strength and all your resources. It depends on the translation.

But when you place that on your door and on your gates, when you write that on there, I believe what the Lord is doing when he instructs us to do that is he's putting a no trespassing sign in the spirit world. Because if you actually use the way it, if you write it the way it was written in scripture, not the way our English translations put it where it says just Lord. If you put the name of Yahweh on your doors and on your gates, that whole thing, I believe that. has a power that keeps these things away, keeps unclean spirits, keeps the demonic activity away from your house. As you can tell, things falling off our walls, we still have one gate that we haven't written it on yet. It's right beside that door. Interesting. There is a lot to that. You know, sometimes we don't understand why he says to do it. Just try it. That's something that

that people are dealing with or having issues with or having a lot of activity. Also, look through your home for the gateways. You know, we were talking before about angels ascending and, or I was going to talk about angels and descending and descending and this incursion is still taking place. These are things that are still happening. And if you have gateways in your house, you know, maybe you have some movies in your house that you shouldn't be having in your house, maybe you have some books, you know, or whatever it may be that may be a door that gives legal access.

to these demonic spirits that come into your house. It's good to go through your house and do a cleansing. It's funny, Renate. We bought our house, the couple of us, he was a pastor. And so when they built the house, they wrote scripture above all the doorways. It's been painted over, right? But it's still there. It's written actually, it's on the hard, on the, on the drywall.

It's written on drywall. So there's scripture over all of our doorways. So I think it's fascinating. To me, it's a lot like it's what we see in Passover, right? with putting the lands blood over your doorway, it's a claiming, I think it's just interesting, it's a claiming of this space for God, right?

It's interesting that you bring up Passover too with what he just said. Passover, you're supposed to get all of the yeast out of your house. Well, we view that yeast as, you know, it's described as sin in the New Testament, is compared to sin. And so when we go through and clean before Passover, we're also looking for those spiritual gateways, things that the father says, you know, I don't really like that movie or I don't

really like, sometimes there are symbols and we don't know what they mean, but we just ask the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit tells us what to get rid of. It's unleavened bread. It's unleavened bread, right? Right. And it's very important to use his name. and we don't get into the debates about how to pronounce it or how not to pronounce it. It's not a salvation issue because he's going to get a new name anyway and we're all going to know it.

But that commandment where it says don't take the name of the Lord your God in vain, which is actually in the Hebrew, you know, Yahweh, Elohim. And literal translation is to not make his name common or a title. We get better understanding of that when we look at Isaiah where it says, Oh, Lucifer's son of the morning. Now Lucifer was a Greek god of light. That name was translated into the Bible in the 16th century. But if you look at the original Hebrew, Satan's name before he fell was halel, which is the name praise.

That's where we get hallelujah from, for example, halel. And he lost his identity. He lost his name. And so when, if I'm in a room with, say, a Muslim, a Hindu, and a Buddhist, and I say, Lord, they all say, uh-huh, yeah, okay. Because they call their God Lord. as well. But there's no God that has the name Yodhe Vaghe, none. He's the only one. And it's very important. That's why she was saying, if you write this, you know, on the, it's Deuteronomy 6, four through nine, it's important that you actually write his name on there because there is

power in his name. It's, it's crazy how much stuff transfers from one show to the next, Luke. Like Doug talking about the demons and how they basically, when Christians get together, it drives out the darkness specifically. And I wonder if that's why they ended up in the desert lands where there isn't as many Christians and people praying. And they're isolated these areas. And then Tim was talking about some of these ideas when Satan didn't have a name. You know what I mean?

When he fell, the scripture doesn't really give Satan a name. And we've kind of... Is the accuser or the... Right. The accuser, the adversary. He lost his identity, which is why he attacks the church's identity. he attacks believers identity in many shapes, ways and forms. Yeah.

Because his identity is gone. He'll never have that name again that he had. This is fascinating. I had one more question, really. And this is right on this. And it has to do with the idea of portals. And we just talked about the deserts. This is great.

Like we have the Anasazi and we have, you know, the word we don't use that ranch there. There's a lot of weird stuff. Like the Anastasi were into like trying to open up these portals. And there's a lot of ceremonies that were in some of these Native American cultures that were and what it seemed to be to open these portals. Now, is that something that's in, in the Native American culture? Or do you think it's the opposite? Do you think the desert itself, we talk about these spirits being sent to the desert?

Do you think that attracted certain tribes that were bent towards the occult? Or do you think that there was, it's kind of the chicken of the egg? Or do you think that there was actual occult practices that are happening and maybe still be happening that opening up portals? Yeah, there's definitely still opening of gates. there's ancient places that were ancient gateways. And if you knew a certain song or if you knew a certain chant that you would do, you could actually open those doorways, open those gateways. There was actually a story in my tribe about how one of our clans completely disappeared

because a being, a being came and foretold the colonists coming and invading and killing the people. and offered to take them away to a place that was better and safer. And so some of the tribe went, the entire Bear clan went, and he stood at the face of a mountain and touched it and sang a song, and you could see into the spirit world there. And it was like this beautiful paradise-looking place, and there was one guy who was kind of, I don't know if I want to go or not.

And so he ran back to try to get his family when he saw how beautiful of a place it was that his people would be spared from what was coming. And that's how we have the story. But by the time he got back, the portal had closed already and the Bear Clan was gone. And I believe portals are very important places that are kind of like capture the flag. I think that they can be used for good or used for evil. when you read in scripture about the Great Flood or what my people call the deluge, then you'll see scripture says that the Lord opened up windows in heaven and poured the rain down. And when you hear NASA talking about space shuttle launches,

it talks about different windows that it has to go through in the atmosphere. And I think those windows that the shuttle goes through are the windows that or the portals that the Lord opened up to push the rain because there was rain under the earth at that time. Water under the earth at that time. But the water is the only seeing in scripture that was not created. Water is is the water of life is Yeshua and the throne is surrounded by water or a river that runs runs from it. And so I believe that water came from the spirit world into the material world through these portals, these windows. And people who work with shamanic power, you know, even the word shaman, that's a Russian-Siberian word. None of the native people here use that word.

And there's a distinction between a medicine man and a holy man. A medicine man is actually literally, like my wife is a medicine woman. She's an herbalist and a doctor of naturopathic medicine. So a medicine person, if you were sick, that's who you went to for physical healing. The holy people were the ones who did ceremony, dealt with spiritual things. Of course, there's kingdom of light and kingdom of darkness with that. Like among my wife's people, if you were caught doing bad medicine, meaning like a shamanistic occult type of things.

The punishment was execution. You were killed. You were executed before your tribe. It wasn't always enforced. Yeah, but still today there's people, and we'll just use the word shaman, so everybody knows that word. Openly, they open portals and they communicate with these beings. Interestingly enough, in a lot of the Mesoamerican tribes today,

when their shamanic people open these portals, their descriptions of these beings are really interesting. They're reptilian with wings, sometimes two wings, sometimes four wings, and they give knowledge or sooth saying or foretell the future and all this. But those people that do those shamanic practices, they say it's just as they're communicating with them,

just like we're communicating with each other right now, that crystal clear. And it just takes a few simple ceremonies, which many times requires a shedding of blood to open that gate and the gateways open for that communication. Wow. Oh, man, we appreciate you guys. I mean, I guess one of my last questions after all these stories is, what do you think Sasquatch is? What do you think Bigfoot is then with all your knowledge?

Do you think it's? So. Elusive. Yeah, definitely. It's the best answer we've ever gotten. I think that they are a byproduct of Genesis 6. I don't think it was just human beings that these fallen angels interbred with. I think they also did so with other animals and creatures.

That's where we get stories of centaurs, minotars, you know, all these half human, half animal type creatures. I think that's the origin source. And they have the ability to either move interdimensionally. That's why they can disappear the way they do. But yet they are still physically here in this realm to where people can, you know, witness them, see them or have stories about them. We had a Apache brother here last week who told us a very interesting story of a Bigfoot encounter that he had. So I think that they are a leftover, a remnant of that Genesis 6.

Incursion. Awesome. Yeah. Well, we appreciate you guys so much for coming on our show today and talking about all these blurry creatures and... Or do you mean after? Because anything in Genesis 6 was wiped out. Right, but there was also after. Yeah.

All manner of flesh, right? That's what the Bible says. All manner of flesh was corrupted. That's right. Do you ever wonder why not the fish? Maybe they were. Mermaids. What about Leviathan and all the...

Mermaids? All of the sea. creatures probably about the mer men right yeah mer man mer man well yeah we talk about some guys come on our

podcast and say that some of these these beings were snatched up and taken off earth and then put back who knows there's a lot of stuff incursions would also could also relate to something right absolutely if you know they'd be on smaller scales right you wouldn't have

you know a large manner of so much corruption that god decided to destroy the earth but the that's what I mean who knows Nate I but I think you guys are like right where I've landed 60 how many episodes are we in now 60 something episodes in talking about what Bigfoot is and what we think about

about that then how that leads to to understanding and opening up sort of your worldview to supernatural I think that's what's great about the angle you guys bring and it's right in line with we talk about with Dr. Michael Heiser and Tim Alberino and Dr. J. Burton are all these guests that we bring

on is the idea that the supernatural has been understanding of Christian has been gilded. Like the idea that everything is physical and nothing is metaphysical is, you know, you cut out half the Bible. I mean, you guys get some great examples. And then what do you do with on earth as it is in heaven? You know,

that's commanding that the material world fall in line with what's in the spiritual realm, which is eternal. And then it's just a matter of, are you in the kingdom of white or a kingdom of darkness and operated in that? You know, so it's been, It's been great to be on your show, man. Thanks a lot for having us.

And we could probably keep talking for hours and hours. We should at some point. We got it. We're in Tennessee. We don't have really a good excuse not to get together at some point. We do in Nashville pretty often, too. Well, let us know. We're here.

We're not too, Nate and I are probably 40 minutes from each other, I think. Oh, key thing. You said something about things burning up. That is, that's literally when the fires come. Our stories talk about how the world was destroyed by water. and that it's going to be purified by fire. And we see this. We see this not only in biblical prophecy, but also in native prophecy.

And that was two in July, we published the second book. It's the sequel to that's what the old ones say, which is a collection of native stories that show how the creator prepared the way for the gospel to come to our people. And that's when the fires come is the sequel. And that's a comparison of First Nations prophecy and biblical prophecy. But it's written in such a way that, you know, we, want the person reading it to feel like they're actually there at the fire with us as they're hearing these stories from the elders. So it's not just a scholarly, you know, this, this, this, this,

it's an interwoven story of all these First Nations prophecies that you also find in scripture. Awesome. So we can let our listeners know where they can find your books and find the work you guys have, perhaps your website or I always like to give a chance to plug everything you're doing here. Okay. Our books and music can be found at www.Theriverwinds.com, and it's in the store. And then we also have our nonprofit organization, our charitable organization, which is firekeepers international.org. And what we're doing, what we've been doing the past several years, we actually, you know, we've been in ministry for over 15 years. But the folks,

shifted when the Creator told us the church is not ready for what's coming. And our elders have told us that we need to teach the indigenous survival skills of our people, how to make fire the old way, how to survive, how to identify plants, how to make medicines, how to fish, how to hunt, all these things that one are slowly passing in native culture, so it helps preserve it. But also, our elders said, teach it to whoever's willing to learn. to learn. You know, it's not a closely guarded secret like it used to be 20, 30 years ago. So we host events where we bring people together and teach escape invasion, you know, plant identification, how to have children out in the wild, you know, I mean, just all sorts of

different. I made sure I didn't say the savage wildbirth, which I said one time on a show. It's basically how to have children outside of a hospital. Yeah. Oh, wow. All these skills that we're going to need one day to be able to survive and thrive. And believers really need to know this stuff. You know, when you can't go to, I mean, look at the supply chains already. Right.

You know, what are you going to do when you can't get milk? What are you going to do when you can't get meat? You know, I mean, thankfully, we have 600 acres over here of cattle. Not ours. not ours. It's our neighbors. He's talking about hunting our neighbors now. Oh my goodness.

Take that Nephlene Lance away from that. Yeah. Hey, you know. Put some feathers in my hair. Yeah. Well, I got ammo to trade. So that's what I'm banking on. I got ammo and whiskey.

I can trade. All right. I'm hoping that. I love it. Anyway, well, guys, thank you so much. Chief Joseph and Dr. Lorland River, Wind.

It's been a pleasure to have you guys on. on and thank you for your insight and for sharing your stories. And giving us a perspective, this is perspective we haven't had yet on our show. You know, we talk a lot about giants in the old world, but understanding the giants of the new world and the understanding of the supernatural from an indigenous person's point of view

and also that being the heritage on this side of the ocean. It's been wonderful experience. Thanks for all the, thanks for doing what you do as well. So we appreciate you. Thank you for what you're doing, man. keep exposing the darkness. We're trying. All right, guys.

We're trying. Thanks, guys. Good night. And, uh, all right.